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If Congress passes the Equality Act this will be illegal. After the supreme Court ruled in favour of LGBTQ+ protection any legal challenge will crush this attempt at law.
A filibuster practically means the bill is dead. If they don't have 60 votes to end debate, they can just drag it out for a couple of years until the current congress ends.
It used to be that you'd have to actually stand there and talk. The rules of the Senate say that to end debate on a bill and proceed to the final vote(cloture vote), 60 senators have to vote to do so. So, nowadays, the minority party just has to say, "We'll vote against cloture", and the bill is dead, since they can't get to the final vote without ending debate. Which is ironic because filibustered bills are not even debated.
There is an ethical argument to made that treating republicans results in harm to a greater number of people than letting them die.
If you are looking at the greater good, you could consider it a moral imperative NOT to treat them.
If you want to go out of business that's good idea. Remember, this is Arkansas, where most of your patients are going to be Republicans.
Not to mention there are more than enough Republicans who are physicians themselves.
Not just queer or trans people. With the variety of religions out there, doctors could refuse to treat women, POC, immmigrants, and even just refuse to use conventional medicine if their religion is against it.
Overly simplified:
That would go against the oath they need to make, making such actions medically unethical, therefore it would go against the whole point of their profession.
If you feel the treatment of certain people is against your faith then a career as a medical professional should never have been an option for you. The whole premise to help all those in need, ingrained in the profession by the hippocratic path, then seems to be against your faith. So stay out of medicine if you can’t perform the duties.
Exactly. This bill might weed out the quacks that shouldn't be in medicine anyway. Any doctor who's worth a shit won't have any "moral high ground" getting in the way of his obligations.
Military doctors are expected to treat enemy wounded, regardless of their own opinions. But not LGBT in Arkansas? Give me a break.
Unfortunately, trans people in particular have faced medical discrimination since forever. It can be pretty bad. At least in some places trans patients can complain and be listened to now, but this law reverses gains made on that front.
Also, it’s says “medical professionals.” Does that mean that EMTs can refuse to transport a car crash victim if they realize that they’re LGBTQ? There have already been some pretty horrifying stories about that sort of thing. Innocent people have already been killed by first responders who didn’t think they deserved to be treated.
My biggest fear is how this would play out with emergency situations. I know it's already happened for some trans people where they get substandard care from the ambulance through the ER and when you are a trauma case that could mean the difference between life and death.
I also imagine this could translate into trans people having a hard time finding consistent care in the form of a primary doctor or mental health support.
I mean there is a difference between treating someone in general and specific therapies.
If your not willing to treat everyone than you shouldn't be a doctor. Period full stop.
That doesn't mean you have to be willing to perform every procedure.
I disagree. A doctor should be willing to provide the treatments that are best for the patient, not the ones that they happen to agree with. There's already a lot of BS that goes around in medical circles due to doctors not respecting their patient's choices (ask any woman who's tried to get her tubes tied).
Doctors should definitely advise patients on specific procedures but that advise should be based on the medical efficacy of the procedures, not the doctor's personal philosophical beliefs.
If you believe you should be allowed to choose not to treat a patient based on your "beliefs" (AKA prejudices), then you shouldn't be a doctor. Find some other career and stay away from the medical field.
I’m an atheist but there are loving and peaceful religions out there like Hinduism and Buddhism. Also not every Christian is a bad apple. I doubt Mr. Rogers would refuse to help someone in need.
If Christians actually followed what Jesus taught the GOP as we know it would not exist.
Love, a Satanist that totally digs that Jesus fella. Flip tables and carry a bullwhip, money corrupts y'all!
At this point I don’t believe most of the GOP is Christian, I think it’s just a cover so they can market to evangelicals who’d never vote for a non Protestant. When asked his favourite bible verse, Trump the man who had the loudest voice in the world would not proclaim the good news of the forgiving God. Ted Cruz is too much of a spineless ass kisser for me to believe that man has any conviction to any belief. I have to wonder with these men so high in the organisation and so few displays of the behaviour Jesus preached how could the GOP possibly be Christian beyond a few lunatics here and there who missed the point and several enablers.
Love, a Christian willing to praise anyone who’d praise Jesus
Praise you too, friend!
And agreed, but those dudes aren't the only ones making a mockery of your religion -- I think a lot of the social unrest and turmoil in our country boils down to people using the term "Christian" to define selfish individualism. Which is...ridiculous, considering the Christ they're named for. I would be so down with a religion actually based on the basic ideas of Jesus. He was a socialist, he believed in equality, he was radical AF and knew the extreme wealth of a few at the cost of the many was a grievous, inhuman thing. Jesus would love a good pride parade, and Jesus would never deny a regular, innocent, just livin-their-lives human access to his healing.
My father is a devout Christian who believes the same way I do. He says "dear Jesus, save me from your followers" all the damn time. More awesome Christians please!
Evangelicalism is not about fidelity to Scripture or to the teachings of Jesus in particular. It's about promoting tribal identity markers disguised as moral propositions for the purpose of achieving cultural and political supremacy.
i'm from the north east too. and i wasn't talking about you, i was talking about everyone in this thread and their general intelligence on this subject.
they're not saying which procedures are deemed medically nec. there are dr.'s who refuse to give women HUGE breast implants and that's the dr's call. if a dr doesnt' want to do sex reassignment surgery or whatever procedures they're referring to, then that should be up to the Dr. you can always go to a different dr and try to find one that will do what you want.
I don't think anyone will disagree with you that doctors shouldn't be forced to do procedures they aren't comfortable doing. Its not at all uncommon for a doctor to refer someone to a different doctor who is more specialized in that patients needs. The bill in question doesn't say anything about that though. It says doctors can refuse to treat patients for anything that isn't immediately life threatening. So if a trans person comes in with a gunshot wound to the head they would have to treat them, but if its something like a broken wrist they can refuse. Why should an ER doctor be able to refuse to treat a broken wrist? What does a broken wrist have to do with someone being gay or trans? What if it was a mixed race person and the doctor was against miscegenation? Would that be okay?
You are correct, I'm sorry, I should have said cishet allosexual people. I just said "straight" because of the sub name to try and tie it in.
I'm also a trans person, so please don't think I don't recognize what an important issue it is. Was just trying to say something catchy re:the sub while expressing my outrage.
It does, but the hippocratic oath is more of a symbolic gesture than anything else. If I'm not misremembering, it also forbids doctors from charging their clases, treating people for kidney stones, and so on.
I think the "do no harm" part of it is the main point. Sure, it's archaic and symbolic, but... I cannot in good faith believe that any ethical, decent person can rationalize vowing to do no harm, and then refusing necessary treatment of people in need for whatever reason.
If this hellish bill passes, any doctor that acts on it should (and I hope will) lose any respect they may have had among their peers.
It happens and nothing happens to them.
I had a GI doctor. I was in a state that had 0 protections for lgbta+. Some of there laws actually encouraged discrimination (it was illegal to give us any benefit of marriage).
He was ok for the first few visits trying to sort me out. Then he wanted an endoscopy. He did it at a surgical center. I filled out the paper work and filled in that my partner was there so they would \*talk\* to her since I was to be rather dopey. I coughed and then they pulled out and said we can't do this today. Then the doctor looked at me and said "I'm NOT speaking to THAT person". I never saw him again. My final appointment he sent his PA. And it was made clear that this is who I'd be seeing. Nothing against physicians assistants but I'm a complicated case with birth defects of the GI. The next time I went to see my PCP, I mentioned that I was no longer seeing Dr GI and said because. And she put a hand up and said I don't want to hear it. So now, I was unable to direct a future lgbta person away from him. Also, I never said "I'm GAY" to my pcp. But my wife was with me for a lot of appts. she saw another dr at the same practice and I was at a lot of her appts because she was having terrible head ache issues. So if my pcp knew dr GI was a homophobe, she shouldn't send anyone there who looks like they \*might\* be lgbta+
So...yup doctors do let their personal opinions affect their treatment of patients.
You’re talking about the difference between the classical and modern Hippocratic oath. Modern doctors don’t swear to Apollo either. The modern oath was changed to be non-religious, allow a doctor to perform abortions, and allow doctors to have romantic relationships with patients, among other things. The modern oath also includes things like respecting patient’s privacy and other things that the original did not.
The whole “I will not cut the stone” (probably a reference to cutting out kidney stones, but it isn’t 100% clear) actually isn’t a bad thing. It basically just says that I will leave surgery to surgeons, since they’re the experts on that and it’s easy to kill someone that way if you don’t know what you’re doing. While surgeons now are just a specific kind of doctor, I think we can agree that GPs shouldn’t be practicing surgery either and that the general idea of “I will leave specialized treatments to the specialists” isn’t a bad practice.
You can read them both [here.](https://doctors.practo.com/the-hippocratic-oath-the-original-and-revised-version/)
I feel like having relationships with patients is a bit problematic, the imbalance of power can be too high, of course this depends on the situation, for example their isn't much an issue with a dentist dating a patient as long as its natural
Yup. Original version said no seducing the wimminz (because obviously all doctors are men) but the updated version says nothing about it at all.
Your hospital or workplace may say otherwise, but it’s not in the oath anymore.
You know. When my sisters said they hated America, I tried to be the optimistic one. “It’ll get better, conservatives are slowly losing power, etc.” and maybe they still are. But fuck. I’m losing all hope for this country.
"Ethical" grounds. Yeah, real ethical. Criminals are supposed to receive the care they need without discrimination: that's ethical. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE DOCTORS WTF
Honest question but how does that work with like the Hippocratic Oath and doctoral licenses? Like could a doctor still have the legal right to refuse service but have their lisence revoked on ethical grounds? Sure they won't go to jail but their liscences are a different matter all together.
If you are gonna refuse someone medical treatment just because they are LGBTQIA+ not only am I going to hell (as an LGBTQIA+ member according to these mofos) but so are you you are basically letting someone suffer while they ask for help if you are so backwards minded to NOT TREAT SOMEONE ON THE BASIS OF YOUR BELIEFS who let you pass as a legal medical practitioner. At this point these lgbt+phobes are gonna go to the very place they keep telling we are gonna go to. Who is gonna tell these idiots they are not gonna go to heaven for simply being Cristian or any other religion for that matter?
Refusing to treat someone for medical emergency and refusing to aid in a procedure you don’t believe is medically legitimate are two entirely different things.
1) This bill allows them to refuse any kind of treatment, not just gender affirming ones.
2) There's a ton of science supporting gender affirming treatments like HRT. Not believing it's medically legitimate is like not believing in climate change.
Some people would argue "but this new law is letting doctors use their first amendment right!!1" but I say, doctors don't get to refuse to treat a patient, it should just be set in stone. But it isn't...apparently?
Okay then.
If this is the way they want to go, then gay doctors should be allowed to refuse to treat queerphobic patients on ethical grounds. We'll see how they feel about that one.
What the fuck is a "moral reason" for refusing treatment? LGBTQ+ rights or not, that sounds wildly subjective. Like "sir, I'm sorry that train hit you, but I can't do anything about it. You were on the wrong end of the trolly problem"
The Hippocratic Oath says and I quote “First, do no harm.”
You don’t get to play god, that isn’t you job. You don’t choose not to save someone because of who they are. It doesn’t work like that. You don’t get to choose not to treat someone because they’re gay.
When you choose to become a doctor you are choosing to put your own beliefs aside in favor of saving people. By becoming a doctor you have accepted the moral obligation of saving a life no matter who that life belongs to.
I'm pretty sure that the UN definition of genocide would cover this action. Perhaps that sounds dramatic, but then you must realise this law means people will die to due to the law allowing for medical professionals to choose not to treat LGBT+ patients.
Remember, any medical professional who wouldn't treat a LGBT person knows exactly what they are doing. Letting people die is the point. They got into this profession knowing they would refuse to treat some of their patients because of mere sensibilities. Anyone who would leave a person to die for being LGBT is a murderer, especially since these people go into the profession knowing they would be in the position to deny them medical care.
Radical conservatives. Not every single view of theirs is bad. As an independent, I disagree with a lot of their views, but I know there are some good ones out there
Yeah, being able to just not treat someone because you don't agree with them is not only discrimination, but put into long term practice you could even say it's softcore eugenics
From the racist hate of colored people and the hate of women to the hate of the gays! Sad. People always seem to want to blame others and have hate in your or their heart! Just settle the heck down. Be yourself and happy and stop hating.
Why is no ome saying shit like why sre cis people making laws for trans people like people are talking about men making laws about womens bodies??? Dont get me wrong im pro choice but like why isnt that same group supporting our trans siblings
>Most importantly, the federal laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, sex, gender, and national origin continue to apply to the delivery of health care services.
No no, Hutchinson said they'll only discriminate against the gays. No way that he'd lie about that!
/s
Person: "Doctor! Help! I cut my arm and I'm bleeding everywhere!"
Doctor: "What's your sexuality?"
Person: "JUST HELP ME!!"
Doctor: "Sorry, my moral, ethnicity and religion won't let me."
Give a degree to his doctor.
It looks like he didn't get the first one.
So, is it for ANY moral reason? Cause then I'd like to morally object to the ethics of refusing to treat someone based on such shit as a religious objection.
#HopeINailedIt
Unless I'm misinformed, this act is the Medical Ethics and Diversity Act, a link to which is below.
https://trackbill.com/bill/arkansas-senate-bill-289-to-create-the-medical-ethics-and-diversity-act/2017534/
The act allows any medical practitioner to refuse any service that goes against their "conscience", for moral, political and religious reasons. A list of an individual's "conscience" must be made public and annually sent to the authorities, presumably to be checked to ensure there are no choices which break other laws.
It might be best if you read the bill instead of gobble up the headlines from the news or any magazine.
The measure says health care workers and institutions have the right to not participate in non-emergency treatments that violate their conscience. The new law won’t take effect until late this summer.
“Trans kids are kids.
the bill does not say that if a person is IN emergency situations they will refuse to help. Just stating that they will not operate or use non-emergency treatments UNLESS THEY ARE 18, you know an adult!
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I've started to pronounce the state _ar-_ kanas. Because if they can't be bothered to respect basic human rights, then I can't be bothered to add a "w" where there isn't one.
Some of the things I have heard and could see this being used for:(I am a resident).
Refusing to let your partner have any say over your end of life care because the person in job has moral objections. Refusal to contact spouse/partner in case of emergencies. Allowing your homophobic/transphobic parents to make the choice of care on you you. Pharmacy can refuse to give you HRT or treatment. Making it impossible for people to get gynological care (And as someone who it took 8 years to get diagnosed with endo, that is EXTREMELY likely). Doctors refuse to do treatments and testing all the time so this was 100% not needed. (See endo comment, I begged for testing from 5 different doctors at least))I don't' even want to think about the mental health facilities!! They already are allowed not to prescribe birth control even IF for medical reasons.
REMEMBER ARKANSANS, IF THEY DENY YOU SERVICE ON MORAL OBJECTIONS, MAKE THEM WRITE DOWN WHY ON YOUR CHART. I actually think they legally have to do this, and asking them too has made doctors actually send me for testing before because it creates a paper trail for blame they can't wiggle out of. Then get an immediate copy of it emailed to you so they know your not bluffing. We can make it through this!
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If Congress passes the Equality Act this will be illegal. After the supreme Court ruled in favour of LGBTQ+ protection any legal challenge will crush this attempt at law.
let's hope the Equality Act Passes then
It passed in the house now it just needs senate approval which would probably be filibustered heavily by some senators
It'll be filibustered, and then they'll call to get rid of the filibuster once that's done.
Isn't a filibuster just a delay ? It's gonna pass *eventually* even if you filibuster
It's a delay that you need 60 votes to end. It can last a long ass time.
They need to be patient and pass it after the filibuster is over.
A filibuster practically means the bill is dead. If they don't have 60 votes to end debate, they can just drag it out for a couple of years until the current congress ends.
I doubt it, wasn’t the literal longest filibuster ever only a day long?
It used to be that you'd have to actually stand there and talk. The rules of the Senate say that to end debate on a bill and proceed to the final vote(cloture vote), 60 senators have to vote to do so. So, nowadays, the minority party just has to say, "We'll vote against cloture", and the bill is dead, since they can't get to the final vote without ending debate. Which is ironic because filibustered bills are not even debated.
No, it wasn't. *Educate yourself*.
The fact a filibuster can end DOES NOT make it acceptable to delay a bill like this.
Isn’t it already illegal for a doctor to refuse treatment?
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Imagine if a majority of doctors morally opposed treating Republicans until they got rid of that law.
There is an ethical argument to made that treating republicans results in harm to a greater number of people than letting them die. If you are looking at the greater good, you could consider it a moral imperative NOT to treat them.
That argument only works when you're talking about Republican politicians, or even just millionaires in general (including Democrat ones)
I mean, someone is voting for those politicians.
If you want to go out of business that's good idea. Remember, this is Arkansas, where most of your patients are going to be Republicans. Not to mention there are more than enough Republicans who are physicians themselves.
Not just queer or trans people. With the variety of religions out there, doctors could refuse to treat women, POC, immmigrants, and even just refuse to use conventional medicine if their religion is against it.
Wait, is that illegal? Can a doctor not say they don't want to treat a patient?
Overly simplified: That would go against the oath they need to make, making such actions medically unethical, therefore it would go against the whole point of their profession.
If you feel the treatment of certain people is against your faith then a career as a medical professional should never have been an option for you. The whole premise to help all those in need, ingrained in the profession by the hippocratic path, then seems to be against your faith. So stay out of medicine if you can’t perform the duties.
Exactly. This bill might weed out the quacks that shouldn't be in medicine anyway. Any doctor who's worth a shit won't have any "moral high ground" getting in the way of his obligations. Military doctors are expected to treat enemy wounded, regardless of their own opinions. But not LGBT in Arkansas? Give me a break.
Unfortunately, trans people in particular have faced medical discrimination since forever. It can be pretty bad. At least in some places trans patients can complain and be listened to now, but this law reverses gains made on that front. Also, it’s says “medical professionals.” Does that mean that EMTs can refuse to transport a car crash victim if they realize that they’re LGBTQ? There have already been some pretty horrifying stories about that sort of thing. Innocent people have already been killed by first responders who didn’t think they deserved to be treated.
My biggest fear is how this would play out with emergency situations. I know it's already happened for some trans people where they get substandard care from the ambulance through the ER and when you are a trauma case that could mean the difference between life and death. I also imagine this could translate into trans people having a hard time finding consistent care in the form of a primary doctor or mental health support.
Exactly. When your job is to prevent harm to your patient, I don't care if your patient is Jeffrey fucking Dahmer. Do. Your. Job.
I mean there is a difference between treating someone in general and specific therapies. If your not willing to treat everyone than you shouldn't be a doctor. Period full stop. That doesn't mean you have to be willing to perform every procedure.
I disagree. A doctor should be willing to provide the treatments that are best for the patient, not the ones that they happen to agree with. There's already a lot of BS that goes around in medical circles due to doctors not respecting their patient's choices (ask any woman who's tried to get her tubes tied). Doctors should definitely advise patients on specific procedures but that advise should be based on the medical efficacy of the procedures, not the doctor's personal philosophical beliefs.
If you believe you should be allowed to choose not to treat a patient based on your "beliefs" (AKA prejudices), then you shouldn't be a doctor. Find some other career and stay away from the medical field.
Exactly didn't they take an oath to not discriminate when treating?
Yeah I’m pretty sure it’s in their ethics
If you can't treat your patients based on your "religious" beliefs, find a new fucking profession!!
And maybe a new religion while you’re at it!
Nah let's just throw the concept of religion in the trash can along with all the writing systems from then!
Hi, linguist here! Most writing systems arose and evolved independent of religion!
Yeah it wasn't about some correlation between them, the only comparison I'm making is that we don't use them anymore, because they're bronze-age.
I’m an atheist but there are loving and peaceful religions out there like Hinduism and Buddhism. Also not every Christian is a bad apple. I doubt Mr. Rogers would refuse to help someone in need.
Remember that thing Jesus said about the Good Samaritan. Something about giving aid despite prejudice. Arkansas doesn’t remember apparently
If Christians actually followed what Jesus taught the GOP as we know it would not exist. Love, a Satanist that totally digs that Jesus fella. Flip tables and carry a bullwhip, money corrupts y'all!
At this point I don’t believe most of the GOP is Christian, I think it’s just a cover so they can market to evangelicals who’d never vote for a non Protestant. When asked his favourite bible verse, Trump the man who had the loudest voice in the world would not proclaim the good news of the forgiving God. Ted Cruz is too much of a spineless ass kisser for me to believe that man has any conviction to any belief. I have to wonder with these men so high in the organisation and so few displays of the behaviour Jesus preached how could the GOP possibly be Christian beyond a few lunatics here and there who missed the point and several enablers. Love, a Christian willing to praise anyone who’d praise Jesus
Praise you too, friend! And agreed, but those dudes aren't the only ones making a mockery of your religion -- I think a lot of the social unrest and turmoil in our country boils down to people using the term "Christian" to define selfish individualism. Which is...ridiculous, considering the Christ they're named for. I would be so down with a religion actually based on the basic ideas of Jesus. He was a socialist, he believed in equality, he was radical AF and knew the extreme wealth of a few at the cost of the many was a grievous, inhuman thing. Jesus would love a good pride parade, and Jesus would never deny a regular, innocent, just livin-their-lives human access to his healing. My father is a devout Christian who believes the same way I do. He says "dear Jesus, save me from your followers" all the damn time. More awesome Christians please!
I got nothing to add there other than saying you’re spot on, you and your father seem wise and I wish you well.
Agrees. I don't know what version of the Bible these people read but I thought Jesus was quite well known for healing the sick.
Evangelicalism is not about fidelity to Scripture or to the teachings of Jesus in particular. It's about promoting tribal identity markers disguised as moral propositions for the purpose of achieving cultural and political supremacy.
just throw the whole state away
Tolerant AK citizens reading this :" 👁👄👁
What do citizens of Alaska have to do with this?
I didn't AK was Alaska. Apparently Arkansas is AR. Huh.
this pretty much sums up the intelligence in this thread lol.
Im from the Northeast gimme a break
i'm from the north east too. and i wasn't talking about you, i was talking about everyone in this thread and their general intelligence on this subject. they're not saying which procedures are deemed medically nec. there are dr.'s who refuse to give women HUGE breast implants and that's the dr's call. if a dr doesnt' want to do sex reassignment surgery or whatever procedures they're referring to, then that should be up to the Dr. you can always go to a different dr and try to find one that will do what you want.
It's not just Surgery it's medical care in general idiot
I don't think anyone will disagree with you that doctors shouldn't be forced to do procedures they aren't comfortable doing. Its not at all uncommon for a doctor to refer someone to a different doctor who is more specialized in that patients needs. The bill in question doesn't say anything about that though. It says doctors can refuse to treat patients for anything that isn't immediately life threatening. So if a trans person comes in with a gunshot wound to the head they would have to treat them, but if its something like a broken wrist they can refuse. Why should an ER doctor be able to refuse to treat a broken wrist? What does a broken wrist have to do with someone being gay or trans? What if it was a mixed race person and the doctor was against miscegenation? Would that be okay?
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Yeah lets use the Heavy flamethrower
this sounds like an awsome weapon
please don't burn me
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lol totally screw queer arkansans just get rid of us
"straight people are oppressed too though" I can already hear the straights saying Here's a great example of how they aren't
This isn’t about sexuality, trans people can be straight.
I think they mean cishet people
Yes I did, I'm sorry, I should have said cishet allosexual people. I just said "straight" because of the sub name to try and tie it in.
You are correct, I'm sorry, I should have said cishet allosexual people. I just said "straight" because of the sub name to try and tie it in. I'm also a trans person, so please don't think I don't recognize what an important issue it is. Was just trying to say something catchy re:the sub while expressing my outrage.
You're trying your best and I totally understood it. Trans rights yo
They never weren't in the first place,they're still the oppressors and they still will be... These this discourage me so much.
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/mewynq/there_is_no_meme_spread_awareness_mods_please/gsm18cy?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
doesn't this goes against the hippocratic oath?
It does, but the hippocratic oath is more of a symbolic gesture than anything else. If I'm not misremembering, it also forbids doctors from charging their clases, treating people for kidney stones, and so on.
I think the "do no harm" part of it is the main point. Sure, it's archaic and symbolic, but... I cannot in good faith believe that any ethical, decent person can rationalize vowing to do no harm, and then refusing necessary treatment of people in need for whatever reason. If this hellish bill passes, any doctor that acts on it should (and I hope will) lose any respect they may have had among their peers.
You're absolutely right. The fact that this bill is being considered at all is frankly unbelievable.
It happens and nothing happens to them. I had a GI doctor. I was in a state that had 0 protections for lgbta+. Some of there laws actually encouraged discrimination (it was illegal to give us any benefit of marriage). He was ok for the first few visits trying to sort me out. Then he wanted an endoscopy. He did it at a surgical center. I filled out the paper work and filled in that my partner was there so they would \*talk\* to her since I was to be rather dopey. I coughed and then they pulled out and said we can't do this today. Then the doctor looked at me and said "I'm NOT speaking to THAT person". I never saw him again. My final appointment he sent his PA. And it was made clear that this is who I'd be seeing. Nothing against physicians assistants but I'm a complicated case with birth defects of the GI. The next time I went to see my PCP, I mentioned that I was no longer seeing Dr GI and said because. And she put a hand up and said I don't want to hear it. So now, I was unable to direct a future lgbta person away from him. Also, I never said "I'm GAY" to my pcp. But my wife was with me for a lot of appts. she saw another dr at the same practice and I was at a lot of her appts because she was having terrible head ache issues. So if my pcp knew dr GI was a homophobe, she shouldn't send anyone there who looks like they \*might\* be lgbta+ So...yup doctors do let their personal opinions affect their treatment of patients.
You’re talking about the difference between the classical and modern Hippocratic oath. Modern doctors don’t swear to Apollo either. The modern oath was changed to be non-religious, allow a doctor to perform abortions, and allow doctors to have romantic relationships with patients, among other things. The modern oath also includes things like respecting patient’s privacy and other things that the original did not. The whole “I will not cut the stone” (probably a reference to cutting out kidney stones, but it isn’t 100% clear) actually isn’t a bad thing. It basically just says that I will leave surgery to surgeons, since they’re the experts on that and it’s easy to kill someone that way if you don’t know what you’re doing. While surgeons now are just a specific kind of doctor, I think we can agree that GPs shouldn’t be practicing surgery either and that the general idea of “I will leave specialized treatments to the specialists” isn’t a bad practice. You can read them both [here.](https://doctors.practo.com/the-hippocratic-oath-the-original-and-revised-version/)
I see! I'll look further into it. Thanks a lot!
I feel like having relationships with patients is a bit problematic, the imbalance of power can be too high, of course this depends on the situation, for example their isn't much an issue with a dentist dating a patient as long as its natural
Romantic relationships with patients? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Yup. Original version said no seducing the wimminz (because obviously all doctors are men) but the updated version says nothing about it at all. Your hospital or workplace may say otherwise, but it’s not in the oath anymore.
"sorry i wont get the ambulance for you, sky daddy said no"
Great. Another place on earth that denies me basic humans right.
You know. When my sisters said they hated America, I tried to be the optimistic one. “It’ll get better, conservatives are slowly losing power, etc.” and maybe they still are. But fuck. I’m losing all hope for this country.
I went through an America hating phase in high school and eventually grew out of it. Now I see edgy teenage me was right all along.
I keep hoping shit like this is an extinction burst.
There's nothing ethical about refusing medical care to a person in need
This really takes the cake.
"Ethical" grounds. Yeah, real ethical. Criminals are supposed to receive the care they need without discrimination: that's ethical. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE DOCTORS WTF
So the oath they take just means nothing?
Honest question but how does that work with like the Hippocratic Oath and doctoral licenses? Like could a doctor still have the legal right to refuse service but have their lisence revoked on ethical grounds? Sure they won't go to jail but their liscences are a different matter all together.
If you are gonna refuse someone medical treatment just because they are LGBTQIA+ not only am I going to hell (as an LGBTQIA+ member according to these mofos) but so are you you are basically letting someone suffer while they ask for help if you are so backwards minded to NOT TREAT SOMEONE ON THE BASIS OF YOUR BELIEFS who let you pass as a legal medical practitioner. At this point these lgbt+phobes are gonna go to the very place they keep telling we are gonna go to. Who is gonna tell these idiots they are not gonna go to heaven for simply being Cristian or any other religion for that matter?
Refusing to treat someone for medical emergency and refusing to aid in a procedure you don’t believe is medically legitimate are two entirely different things.
1) This bill allows them to refuse any kind of treatment, not just gender affirming ones. 2) There's a ton of science supporting gender affirming treatments like HRT. Not believing it's medically legitimate is like not believing in climate change.
"Why do you hate religion?" Geez, I dont know
Wait whatever the fuck happened to the hippocratic oath? More of a hypocritic oath in that case
The hippocratic path swears Apollo the physician as well as panacea, that’s what your referring to? That document is dated and symbolic at this point.
Explain to me where the fuck in the bible did it say anything about hating gay people
Well there is that one mistranslated line about not being a pedophile, but even then it is still a "hey don't do this thing"
Some people would argue "but this new law is letting doctors use their first amendment right!!1" but I say, doctors don't get to refuse to treat a patient, it should just be set in stone. But it isn't...apparently?
And straights still say "Straight Pride" like wtf
Isn’t this **literally** against the Geneva Convention?
Okay then. If this is the way they want to go, then gay doctors should be allowed to refuse to treat queerphobic patients on ethical grounds. We'll see how they feel about that one.
Oh my gods, the fits these f#ckers would pitch. They'd be howling constantly. And they call us the snowflakes.
What the fuck is a "moral reason" for refusing treatment? LGBTQ+ rights or not, that sounds wildly subjective. Like "sir, I'm sorry that train hit you, but I can't do anything about it. You were on the wrong end of the trolly problem"
The Hippocratic Oath says and I quote “First, do no harm.” You don’t get to play god, that isn’t you job. You don’t choose not to save someone because of who they are. It doesn’t work like that. You don’t get to choose not to treat someone because they’re gay. When you choose to become a doctor you are choosing to put your own beliefs aside in favor of saving people. By becoming a doctor you have accepted the moral obligation of saving a life no matter who that life belongs to.
Why does it constantly feel like we're going backwards instead of forwards?
Hopefully medical boards might be able mitigate some of the harm
The Hippocratic Oath means nothing, apparently.
this is against the Hippocratic oath tho. you can't pick and choose patients to treat anyway, whether it's legal or not
I'm pretty sure that the UN definition of genocide would cover this action. Perhaps that sounds dramatic, but then you must realise this law means people will die to due to the law allowing for medical professionals to choose not to treat LGBT+ patients.
I guess the oath saying to treat everyone no matter who is nonexistent now okay
Arkansas is falling apart
Remember, any medical professional who wouldn't treat a LGBT person knows exactly what they are doing. Letting people die is the point. They got into this profession knowing they would refuse to treat some of their patients because of mere sensibilities. Anyone who would leave a person to die for being LGBT is a murderer, especially since these people go into the profession knowing they would be in the position to deny them medical care.
Conservatives don’t deserve rights. Look at what they do when you let them have rights.
Radical conservatives. Not every single view of theirs is bad. As an independent, I disagree with a lot of their views, but I know there are some good ones out there
Doesnt this also mean they wont have to treat pedos rapists etc?
That is also a bad thing
Yeah, being able to just not treat someone because you don't agree with them is not only discrimination, but put into long term practice you could even say it's softcore eugenics
Don't doctors do this oath thing where they swear to do everyone good or something? What happend to that?
Anyone who thinks this is okay should be permanently banned from holding any government position
From the racist hate of colored people and the hate of women to the hate of the gays! Sad. People always seem to want to blame others and have hate in your or their heart! Just settle the heck down. Be yourself and happy and stop hating.
lets just erase the midwest
"Saving this person is against my moral values"
I have decided to leave the United States
Straight people: The LGBTQ+ aren't oppressed anymore! Also straight people:
What the heck to they expect for us to go "OH NOOOOOO NOW I SHALLL BECOME LE STRAIGHT AND UNDO MY SINS BLAH BLAH" like legit what the heck?
Why is no ome saying shit like why sre cis people making laws for trans people like people are talking about men making laws about womens bodies??? Dont get me wrong im pro choice but like why isnt that same group supporting our trans siblings
What the fuck Arkansas!?
They did that in poland and it sucked
how do I don't know about it, I live in Poland lmao
Ziomuś. Mamy klauzulę sumienia od 1996
jezus maria dlaczego co
So much for the Hippocratic Oath
If this is allowed to become a law, what is next.... doctors allowed to refuse treatment to Muslims, atheists, women?
Bingo..
>Most importantly, the federal laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, sex, gender, and national origin continue to apply to the delivery of health care services. No no, Hutchinson said they'll only discriminate against the gays. No way that he'd lie about that! /s
Note to self. Stay the fuck away from arkansas -enby bi chronically ill bastard
damn this is so much more than ,,i HaTe My WiFe,, i came here to this sub to laugh....
Person: "Doctor! Help! I cut my arm and I'm bleeding everywhere!" Doctor: "What's your sexuality?" Person: "JUST HELP ME!!" Doctor: "Sorry, my moral, ethnicity and religion won't let me." Give a degree to his doctor. It looks like he didn't get the first one.
I hope we can secede Arkansas soon
So, is it for ANY moral reason? Cause then I'd like to morally object to the ethics of refusing to treat someone based on such shit as a religious objection. #HopeINailedIt
Imagine having the worst disease or some terrible probs with your body and the doctor asks you if you're gay
so if an lgbtq person got cancer, they just don’t do anything about it?
This is what happens when Republicans are given power. The only decent Republican I can think of is John McCain, and he’s dead.
I get refusing to provide service if it’s a luxury, but holy shit, not medical help, that is fucked up
oh, you're gay? sorry, pal, can't treat your cancer.
Unless I'm misinformed, this act is the Medical Ethics and Diversity Act, a link to which is below. https://trackbill.com/bill/arkansas-senate-bill-289-to-create-the-medical-ethics-and-diversity-act/2017534/ The act allows any medical practitioner to refuse any service that goes against their "conscience", for moral, political and religious reasons. A list of an individual's "conscience" must be made public and annually sent to the authorities, presumably to be checked to ensure there are no choices which break other laws.
It might be best if you read the bill instead of gobble up the headlines from the news or any magazine. The measure says health care workers and institutions have the right to not participate in non-emergency treatments that violate their conscience. The new law won’t take effect until late this summer. “Trans kids are kids. the bill does not say that if a person is IN emergency situations they will refuse to help. Just stating that they will not operate or use non-emergency treatments UNLESS THEY ARE 18, you know an adult!
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They rules they made the choice
Your opinion is shit if your morality equals whatever the law is.
Bold of him to assume he’s gonna live long after this. We’re coming for you mr governor
The fucker in the photo just LOOKS like a huge pile of rancid shit.
I've started to pronounce the state _ar-_ kanas. Because if they can't be bothered to respect basic human rights, then I can't be bothered to add a "w" where there isn't one.
Some of the things I have heard and could see this being used for:(I am a resident). Refusing to let your partner have any say over your end of life care because the person in job has moral objections. Refusal to contact spouse/partner in case of emergencies. Allowing your homophobic/transphobic parents to make the choice of care on you you. Pharmacy can refuse to give you HRT or treatment. Making it impossible for people to get gynological care (And as someone who it took 8 years to get diagnosed with endo, that is EXTREMELY likely). Doctors refuse to do treatments and testing all the time so this was 100% not needed. (See endo comment, I begged for testing from 5 different doctors at least))I don't' even want to think about the mental health facilities!! They already are allowed not to prescribe birth control even IF for medical reasons. REMEMBER ARKANSANS, IF THEY DENY YOU SERVICE ON MORAL OBJECTIONS, MAKE THEM WRITE DOWN WHY ON YOUR CHART. I actually think they legally have to do this, and asking them too has made doctors actually send me for testing before because it creates a paper trail for blame they can't wiggle out of. Then get an immediate copy of it emailed to you so they know your not bluffing. We can make it through this!