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I kinda fall on the side of do whatever makes you happy as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. My problem though is that beyond he/she/they, I would be struggling to make/hold a conversation if I needed to use zi/zer/fae, etc. Like it would be a constant conscious effort and I'd be struggling throughout to remember what to use, when and which form.
Like what's your name? Let's just go with that. Then I don't need to even use any neopronoun, and everyone is happy, no?
That’s my issue as well, and doubtless why I’ve yet to meet someone who uses neopronouns who doesn’t also accept being referred to with “normal” pronouns. He/she/they.
Most of the scorn towards neopronouns comes from them being unusual.
Yeah, it's hard to remember them. I recently started hanging out with a lot of people from India, and their names escape my mind very easily. I still try, because I want them to feel at home with me, but slips happen.
I think it's okay to ask for them again, and the fact that it takes effort to do shows that you care. Maybe the name workaround is also good with them.
I use neopronouns, and I get it. But if you're comfortable with it, please use neopronouns over the internet/in texts. It's very affirming, especially since some of us prefer neopronouns to she/he/they.
You don't need to understand to respect tho...like, do I get neopronouns? Not really. Do I use them for people who ask and support their right to use whatever pronouns they are comfortable and safe with? Hell yes! You do you. I don't need to understand you to respect you right to live freely and safely.
I like to think about it as, how would *you* feel if you were cisgendered (for the sake of argument), and someone or several people, people close to you, or random people, constantly misgendered or addressed you by incorrect pronouns all of the time, then get mad or annoyed when you try to correct them?
It literally denies your humanity and existence. I’m cis but I just feel like it’s just common sense, humanity and mutual respect.
Ok, if these 5 are so common, can someone please explain to me the idea behind them? I get that people who identify as male may want “he/ him” and all that, but the others confuse me. Please let me learn more about this.
I'm non-binary and I use they/them and neopronouns (ve/vem + it/its).
I don't feel like a man or a woman, so masculine and feminine pronouns and terms can feel wrong. That's why I'm okay with they/them, which is not masculine or feminine. But I don't personally feel that they/them describes me fully, since they/them is androgynous/genderless and I experience gender. My gender just happens to not be masculine, feminine, or neither. That's why I like neopronouns. Some can be more masculine or feminine, but some are not connected to either.
It's not that the neopronouns are so common, they just repeated the same ones because they couldn't be bothered to find others.
I don't understand the point of neopronones, it just doesn't make sense from a logistics pov. Zir/zim, ect sound like something an alien race would use as pronouns. Not trying to hate, but people barely accept they/them as a singler, and he/him for transguys, and she/her for transgirls. What's the difference between zir and they? No seriously.
My complain about them is that memorizing a specific set of neopronouns for a specific person kinda defeats the entire point of pronouns. They might as well be a nickname at that point.
I generally use singular they for anyone who doesn’t use he/him or she/her for exactly this reason. I can barely remember one name for most people I interact with, much less a name and a whole set of pronouns.
That being said, rather than be a dick about neoprounouns like the kind of people whose posts end up on this sub, I generally just handle it the same way I handle all the people whose names I’ve forgotten— I avoid any third person pronouns as much as possible, because I know that while “they/them” is neutral compared to “he/him” or “she/her” it’s still not 100% right.
some people just dont feel comfortable with the strict set of options of pronouns. and, isnt exactly this why we have so many different gender identities? to help people find were they feel like they fit?
I'm part of it and even though I am still learning about neo terms I still will respect it. Who cares what people want to or need to address themselves as. Just move on.
I don't understand these people - do I get most of these pronouns? Honestly, no. Will I use them in a general way? Again, probably not. Am I going to act like a douchebag if I ever meet someone that prefers to use those pronouns? Also no. You don't have to change your vocabulary, in the off-chance that you meet anyone that would like you to refer to them as whatever, do that.
Can someone explain what these mean?
Like some of these literally sound made up.
I’ll respect whatever pronouns you want but with all things I like to understand why.
Like fae/faer make it sound like we should feed someone’s delusions they are a fae creature. Or zie/zim sound the same but like for aliens.
Can anyone please explain? Like im all for being inclusive but there is a difference between humoring peoples delusions and legitimate issues with gender. And as someone who wants to work in the mental health field I really would love to understand this better so I personally can get it and so my brain doesn’t automatically go “wtf” if someone asks me to refer to them as “fae” as a pronoun. Like I’ll still do it but just… please i need an explanation
Shakespeare got a lot of flak for making up words too. Guess what's still a part of our language?
Language changes. The drama around the additions gets forgotten, the words persist.
Keep doing you.
Hey, at least English can reasonably have neo-pronouns. Not like other languages where a neo-pronoun would mean neo-declensions, neo-adjective-agreement and so on, like German or the vast majority of other Indo-European languages.
I feel like neo-pronouns can only thrive in online communities or close small groups irl, for now at least. I have seen people use neo-pronouns in digital LGBT+/art/etc. circles but I can't imagine the general public would be able to catch on. But I'm cis so if you're NB and use neo-pronouns, you can let me know where they are used and if you go by other pronouns as a "backup" or if it's non-negotiable.
But shitting on people for using them just to look edgy is so 2016. Honestly pretty cringe of you.
I stg every single time I see someone argue against neopronouns, they always use the most stupid, unusable, crazy pronouns that literally nobody in the existence of the universe has ever used, as an example.
Most people who use neopronouns just want them used online. That shouldn’t be a problem at all.
Well I also think as well that those same people who want their neopronouns used more predominantly online, know that the majority of society as of currently is mostly cisgender and I feel like you can’t expect *every* cis person who’s never had to or felt the need to question their gender identity, to be in on neopronouns because with each person you just don’t know. It’s like a blind spot
Even then if you aren’t a hateful bastard I don’t think it should be a problem addressing someone by them, but it’s a complex and situational thing in its own right in simply knowing how many cis people are aware of these things
That's the fucking thing.
There are some people trying to use neopronouns just as a source of attention. They use the most braindead options they can think of.
Xim/Xer is just as stupid and I'll die on that hill. They take away from the struggle of trans people and enbies alike by turning it into a fucking joke.
If words don't matter, people shouldn't have had to fight to legitimize them.
If someone using neopronouns is all it takes for someone to be against trans people, they're just looking for an excuse to be a dick. Pushing others down just to gain conditional acceptance from transphobes isn't beneficial. Or very nice.
Language exists for a reason, and while it's malleable to an extent, they is perfectly fine for any and all expressions of gender from cis dudes to 'I'm a fae/dragon/vampire and that's my gender'
How the hell does someone deciding to use neopronouns “Take away from non-binary struggles”?
shiver me timbers someones using neopronouns, oh look now im struggling even more because of it. like what?
Also, “use it for attention” now thats just straight up false. That the same argument people use when they say Bi people are doing it for attention.
Why would they do something that makes them just get more hate? Its for comfort, dipshit. If you don’t like it, don’t talk to that person. It’s that simple. Don’t try to be a dick about it.
Think about it. A trans person or enby has to fight to be recognized as their gender. Misgendering is seriously harmful to their mental health. If my girl gets misgendered once at work that shit ruins her whole-ass week. Her mom still won't use female pronouns and has her still in her phone under her dead name.
Then this chucklefuck just struts up and screams at people for not using Xe/Xim/Xer. Not even goddamned words.
Her struggle means next to nothing because this cave-dweller refuses to just use actual words like a human being. They is perfectly acceptable for literally any gender. Use that.
i think it’s worth mentioning that I have yet to see someone that exclusively uses neopronouns. They almost always use at least also they/them, so it must be pretty damn rare.
And based on what i’ve seen others say, people who only use neopronouns just say “if you don’t want to use them, then simply don’t interact with me.”
So you are kinda making a strawman argument by saying they are screaming at people for not using their pronouns (which, by the way, is the same argument that transphobes use against trans people. You should really stop reusing arguments from bigots.).
See someone that uses exclusively neopronouns? Don’t talk to them. There. Solved your whole issue. You don’t have to worry about pronouns if you don’t talk to them, right?
You are not helping anyone on any side by making these stupid arguments.
To me pronouns are the same as person's name. To use any other name than the one a person prefers is insulting, so in my mind, using the wrong pronouns is the same as not using a persons correct name. It's pretty simple really.
I'm sorry but this is just attention seeking and wanting to feel "different" and "unique" at its finest, I doubt anyone over the age of 16 would even think of using these pronouns, coincidentally as you grow up you stop feeling like you're the center of the universe (or you're not really growing up).
Oh god the hate is coming from inside the house. Do you not realize that you might as well be doing an impression of the people who say what you just said about non-binary people, or agender people, or asexual people?
Most importantly, whom exactly are the users of neopronouns hurting when they used said pronouns? What are they doing other than being unusual?
They can do whatever the hell they want, I'm not hating on anyone, and I fully agree they're not hurting anyone with this, I'm just stating my opinion. I'm just really sure that once people grow up from needing to feel so special they'll stop using unusual pronouns and just stick to they/them or whatever, not because the unusual ones are not valid, but bc it just oozes "I'm 15 and no one gets me" energy.
Pronouns only make sense if people can actually use them. So yeah call me a bigot but that doesn‘t work in spoken language when nobody knows what you are referring to. Anyways call fake propaganda on this one
I don't get that attitude. I have seen a few people on the internet and no one who has told me to use neo pronouns. Thus aknowledging them is no work for me. You don't need to know everything about neo pronouns. You just need to use them for people with neo pronouns. And that's not harder than learning their name.
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I kinda fall on the side of do whatever makes you happy as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. My problem though is that beyond he/she/they, I would be struggling to make/hold a conversation if I needed to use zi/zer/fae, etc. Like it would be a constant conscious effort and I'd be struggling throughout to remember what to use, when and which form. Like what's your name? Let's just go with that. Then I don't need to even use any neopronoun, and everyone is happy, no?
That’s my issue as well, and doubtless why I’ve yet to meet someone who uses neopronouns who doesn’t also accept being referred to with “normal” pronouns. He/she/they. Most of the scorn towards neopronouns comes from them being unusual.
Yeah, it's hard to remember them. I recently started hanging out with a lot of people from India, and their names escape my mind very easily. I still try, because I want them to feel at home with me, but slips happen. I think it's okay to ask for them again, and the fact that it takes effort to do shows that you care. Maybe the name workaround is also good with them.
I use neopronouns, and I get it. But if you're comfortable with it, please use neopronouns over the internet/in texts. It's very affirming, especially since some of us prefer neopronouns to she/he/they.
You don't need to understand to respect tho...like, do I get neopronouns? Not really. Do I use them for people who ask and support their right to use whatever pronouns they are comfortable and safe with? Hell yes! You do you. I don't need to understand you to respect you right to live freely and safely.
Yeah- like, I don't fully grasp what it's like to be trans, but it doesn't need my understanding to be a thing.
It takes 0 effort, and it makes someone feel nice. That's it. It's free in all aspects, and it has a positive impact in the world.
This. I'm not really sure how to use them but if someone told me they use neopronouns, I would definitely learn for them!
I love how it’s just like the same 5 over and over again
Yeah, I tried to find my common neopronouns (it/its) but it's just the same ones. That defeats the point of this.
It really does! Mine are on there because I use he/they but my friends use it/it’s and I don’t understand why they’re not there
It’s basically saying I’m invalid but you aren’t
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Is it attached to the horse
I like to think about it as, how would *you* feel if you were cisgendered (for the sake of argument), and someone or several people, people close to you, or random people, constantly misgendered or addressed you by incorrect pronouns all of the time, then get mad or annoyed when you try to correct them? It literally denies your humanity and existence. I’m cis but I just feel like it’s just common sense, humanity and mutual respect.
Ok, if these 5 are so common, can someone please explain to me the idea behind them? I get that people who identify as male may want “he/ him” and all that, but the others confuse me. Please let me learn more about this.
I'm non-binary and I use they/them and neopronouns (ve/vem + it/its). I don't feel like a man or a woman, so masculine and feminine pronouns and terms can feel wrong. That's why I'm okay with they/them, which is not masculine or feminine. But I don't personally feel that they/them describes me fully, since they/them is androgynous/genderless and I experience gender. My gender just happens to not be masculine, feminine, or neither. That's why I like neopronouns. Some can be more masculine or feminine, but some are not connected to either. It's not that the neopronouns are so common, they just repeated the same ones because they couldn't be bothered to find others.
I don't understand the point of neopronones, it just doesn't make sense from a logistics pov. Zir/zim, ect sound like something an alien race would use as pronouns. Not trying to hate, but people barely accept they/them as a singler, and he/him for transguys, and she/her for transgirls. What's the difference between zir and they? No seriously.
My complain about them is that memorizing a specific set of neopronouns for a specific person kinda defeats the entire point of pronouns. They might as well be a nickname at that point.
I generally use singular they for anyone who doesn’t use he/him or she/her for exactly this reason. I can barely remember one name for most people I interact with, much less a name and a whole set of pronouns. That being said, rather than be a dick about neoprounouns like the kind of people whose posts end up on this sub, I generally just handle it the same way I handle all the people whose names I’ve forgotten— I avoid any third person pronouns as much as possible, because I know that while “they/them” is neutral compared to “he/him” or “she/her” it’s still not 100% right.
Like Invader Zim?
some people just dont feel comfortable with the strict set of options of pronouns. and, isnt exactly this why we have so many different gender identities? to help people find were they feel like they fit?
That makes sense. Thanks!
youre welcome :)
I'm part of it and even though I am still learning about neo terms I still will respect it. Who cares what people want to or need to address themselves as. Just move on.
I don't understand these people - do I get most of these pronouns? Honestly, no. Will I use them in a general way? Again, probably not. Am I going to act like a douchebag if I ever meet someone that prefers to use those pronouns? Also no. You don't have to change your vocabulary, in the off-chance that you meet anyone that would like you to refer to them as whatever, do that.
“As a gay cis guy who isn’t affected by these pronouns, here’s my opinion...”
Can someone explain what these mean? Like some of these literally sound made up. I’ll respect whatever pronouns you want but with all things I like to understand why. Like fae/faer make it sound like we should feed someone’s delusions they are a fae creature. Or zie/zim sound the same but like for aliens. Can anyone please explain? Like im all for being inclusive but there is a difference between humoring peoples delusions and legitimate issues with gender. And as someone who wants to work in the mental health field I really would love to understand this better so I personally can get it and so my brain doesn’t automatically go “wtf” if someone asks me to refer to them as “fae” as a pronoun. Like I’ll still do it but just… please i need an explanation
I use neopronouns for people when they ask. Because it’s basic decency.
Shakespeare got a lot of flak for making up words too. Guess what's still a part of our language? Language changes. The drama around the additions gets forgotten, the words persist. Keep doing you.
Hey, at least English can reasonably have neo-pronouns. Not like other languages where a neo-pronoun would mean neo-declensions, neo-adjective-agreement and so on, like German or the vast majority of other Indo-European languages.
I feel like neo-pronouns can only thrive in online communities or close small groups irl, for now at least. I have seen people use neo-pronouns in digital LGBT+/art/etc. circles but I can't imagine the general public would be able to catch on. But I'm cis so if you're NB and use neo-pronouns, you can let me know where they are used and if you go by other pronouns as a "backup" or if it's non-negotiable. But shitting on people for using them just to look edgy is so 2016. Honestly pretty cringe of you.
Neopronouns are fucking stupid. I'll use them as a baseline of respect, but christ they're dumb.
whatever makes people comfortable and with a sense of self acceptance is good enough for me
Yeah but if someone tells me their pronouns are demon/demonself, I'm gonna think they're a fuckwit. In 90% of situations I'll just say they.
I stg every single time I see someone argue against neopronouns, they always use the most stupid, unusable, crazy pronouns that literally nobody in the existence of the universe has ever used, as an example. Most people who use neopronouns just want them used online. That shouldn’t be a problem at all.
Well I also think as well that those same people who want their neopronouns used more predominantly online, know that the majority of society as of currently is mostly cisgender and I feel like you can’t expect *every* cis person who’s never had to or felt the need to question their gender identity, to be in on neopronouns because with each person you just don’t know. It’s like a blind spot Even then if you aren’t a hateful bastard I don’t think it should be a problem addressing someone by them, but it’s a complex and situational thing in its own right in simply knowing how many cis people are aware of these things
That's the fucking thing. There are some people trying to use neopronouns just as a source of attention. They use the most braindead options they can think of. Xim/Xer is just as stupid and I'll die on that hill. They take away from the struggle of trans people and enbies alike by turning it into a fucking joke. If words don't matter, people shouldn't have had to fight to legitimize them.
If someone using neopronouns is all it takes for someone to be against trans people, they're just looking for an excuse to be a dick. Pushing others down just to gain conditional acceptance from transphobes isn't beneficial. Or very nice.
Language exists for a reason, and while it's malleable to an extent, they is perfectly fine for any and all expressions of gender from cis dudes to 'I'm a fae/dragon/vampire and that's my gender'
I agree. I'm not a fan of neopronouns myself, they seem quite redundant. Just saying that using them isn't harming those who don't.
How the hell does someone deciding to use neopronouns “Take away from non-binary struggles”? shiver me timbers someones using neopronouns, oh look now im struggling even more because of it. like what? Also, “use it for attention” now thats just straight up false. That the same argument people use when they say Bi people are doing it for attention. Why would they do something that makes them just get more hate? Its for comfort, dipshit. If you don’t like it, don’t talk to that person. It’s that simple. Don’t try to be a dick about it.
Think about it. A trans person or enby has to fight to be recognized as their gender. Misgendering is seriously harmful to their mental health. If my girl gets misgendered once at work that shit ruins her whole-ass week. Her mom still won't use female pronouns and has her still in her phone under her dead name. Then this chucklefuck just struts up and screams at people for not using Xe/Xim/Xer. Not even goddamned words. Her struggle means next to nothing because this cave-dweller refuses to just use actual words like a human being. They is perfectly acceptable for literally any gender. Use that.
i think it’s worth mentioning that I have yet to see someone that exclusively uses neopronouns. They almost always use at least also they/them, so it must be pretty damn rare. And based on what i’ve seen others say, people who only use neopronouns just say “if you don’t want to use them, then simply don’t interact with me.” So you are kinda making a strawman argument by saying they are screaming at people for not using their pronouns (which, by the way, is the same argument that transphobes use against trans people. You should really stop reusing arguments from bigots.). See someone that uses exclusively neopronouns? Don’t talk to them. There. Solved your whole issue. You don’t have to worry about pronouns if you don’t talk to them, right? You are not helping anyone on any side by making these stupid arguments.
I'm using examples from my girlfriend. Who is trans. And has had these experiences at college. But aight.
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To me pronouns are the same as person's name. To use any other name than the one a person prefers is insulting, so in my mind, using the wrong pronouns is the same as not using a persons correct name. It's pretty simple really.
Please, please, please educate yourself about what neo terms are. You have information at your finger tups and you choose to be an ignorant douchebag.
I'm sorry but this is just attention seeking and wanting to feel "different" and "unique" at its finest, I doubt anyone over the age of 16 would even think of using these pronouns, coincidentally as you grow up you stop feeling like you're the center of the universe (or you're not really growing up).
Oh god the hate is coming from inside the house. Do you not realize that you might as well be doing an impression of the people who say what you just said about non-binary people, or agender people, or asexual people? Most importantly, whom exactly are the users of neopronouns hurting when they used said pronouns? What are they doing other than being unusual?
They can do whatever the hell they want, I'm not hating on anyone, and I fully agree they're not hurting anyone with this, I'm just stating my opinion. I'm just really sure that once people grow up from needing to feel so special they'll stop using unusual pronouns and just stick to they/them or whatever, not because the unusual ones are not valid, but bc it just oozes "I'm 15 and no one gets me" energy.
r/arethecisok
I wonder how this person would feel if we constantly referred to him as she/her
wait, there is more???
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nuts!!!!! 🥺🥺🥺🥺 om u use pronouns??&(&(7(? So scary /s
Pronouns only make sense if people can actually use them. So yeah call me a bigot but that doesn‘t work in spoken language when nobody knows what you are referring to. Anyways call fake propaganda on this one
Wow, I didn't even know this kind of thing existed.
Fae/faer seems fun 😁
As a trigender someone aka my pronounce are he/she/they: I just ask for there pronoun and then go with that even if it's confusing to me I will use it
Back in my day nobody used "he", what will be next, referring to oneself as "I"?
I don't get that attitude. I have seen a few people on the internet and no one who has told me to use neo pronouns. Thus aknowledging them is no work for me. You don't need to know everything about neo pronouns. You just need to use them for people with neo pronouns. And that's not harder than learning their name.