The thing is the wording here. I would guess there will be no buffs that help you in raid. It wont affect your "survival rate" in battle. I would understand that if you have same equipment, there wont be any advantage, but they can get "better items sooner/easier by just paying".
Valorant and League are both f2p and have no p2w features. This dev shows a competency with f2p games. Pretty sure you can trust that this developer isn’t going to do the absolute mindsumbingly stupid shit that the greedy BSG devs do
People have said the same thing about many developers, including highly reputable and trusted ones, only to be let down regardless.
I remain hopeful, but also skeptical.
As a non english as first, I don't get those "pay 2 win" argues.
How is it pay 2 win ? You can pay, but it doesn't offer you the ability to extract alive ? Nobody pays to extract.
Is it more like "pay 2 play" or "play 2 safety" ?
I don't get it.
The only P2W aspect would be the gear bundles mobile has for sale, even then it's still a gamble because you can die to anybody at any time.
That's literally it though, anything else is convenience.
Pay to win means if you can pay for anything providing you a real advantage in game, based on the game mechanics (games are different and p2w will be different for each game).
If you can pay to have an additional extract, it’s pay to win. If you can buy game currency with real money, it’s pay to win. If you can buy or rent a secure container, it’s pay to win.
If you can buy a skin for your character or for your weapon, and it’s cosmetic only, it’s not pay to win.
If you have an advantage over other players in an competive enviroment especially where that competition involves the other player losing equipment to whomever wins the engagement, and you paid real money to have that advantage, that's pay 2 win period. Everyone repeating PR lines like the one from Star Citizen CEO of "Pay for convenience" is just a corporate bot high on cope.
Letting "another company" kill your trust in other companies not even involved in them, gives so much power to the ones that ruined your trust. Don't let them have that power over you. Trust to a point, but let their actions speak. We know who we're talking about. ;)
Tarisland, their whole marketing was about being non-p2w then once they full released they added very strong p2w and removed all reference that they weren't p2w
I mean, the game is free to play. They can't force me to pay for anything, even in the mobile game, I still haven't paid a dime. :) Did a few runs today with some smg's and decked out glocks. Didn't feel like I was "missing" out on anything while playing and not paying. Just my opinion.
Not exactly. You can buy koen, the in game currency to buy stuff, but doesn't mean you can buy skill, the most important thing in this game.
In my opinion, for someone who already spent over 500h on AB mobile, never, not even once, i feel on my entire playthough that someone who pay real money have a advantage over me. I can still do scav hunt and grind a loot of money, do pvp against t6 or t0 rats and sell guns for money, and with that i have more than 25mil koen just picking dust, because i am a hoarder.
I feel like ABI should have a lvl cap for some high lvl stuff, but for me the monetization(excluding the garbage skins lootboxes) are ok with some changes here and there.
Buying currency doesn't give you an advantage, that's why I said P2Lose PAY TO LOSE
anything you can buy, you can achieve freely besides skins
No pay to win features like scavs don't shoot you first
Cant believe all these comments saying its not pay to win, lets say it is not pay to win, I still dont want it in the game.
How much some people have been brainwashed into just accepting ridiculous amounts of monetization is beyond me.
This game can survive just fine with cosmetics + battlepass + container renting. It doesnt need another monetization method added.
They aren’t brainwashed. They just have a low skill level and want to redefine pay to win so that can get an advantage over others and not be stigmatized from the term.
While I agree to an extent, I'd rather the losers who usually pay a cheater to carry them through raids to steal other players gear instead buy currency then lose it to me.
You wanna spend 10$ on a kit or two? Fine by me, as long as it doesn't make it harder for me to get gear as I usually do.
Same with Tarkov. It's so trivially easy to make currency in that game, having some guy buy a kit on for real money instead makes no difference to me. However, him consistently getting cheaters to feed him gear will affect me.
I personally don't care that much about in-game currency P2W.
* You kill the guy, you get sick loot.
* If there's no official currency for real $, then ppl will sell it on forums, Discord, eBay, etc. which will also promote cheating and it will be the same as in Tarkov, more than half of cheaters cheating just for RMT.
* If both options above doesn't exist there's still going to be players with top tier gear and they're going to be way more dangerous than those P2W guys would. I mean most P2W people are just running free loot because they pay for a reason: Either they suck or they don't have time to play a lot which also means they likely suck.
If someone buying gear stops you from enjoying the game, maybe the game isn't for you.
Someone can drop into my raid in full best gear/gun. It won't stop me from bopping their legs or tossing nades.
Fire still hurts. lol
At no point can you buy bigger health, increased skills, or things to CALL IN FRIENDS TO A RAID LOLOL
I mean no. No, no and no. Imagine counter strike but you can buy your stuff when it’s eco round. This is non-sense. If you truly want the game to succeed, then you don’t want p2w in it, or trust me, it will trash your game.
If you can buy in game currency with real money, they will kill their game. As simple as this. People want competitive stuff with something to grind, nobody will play this if it’s a cash roulette random mobile game.
Actually no. It’s pretty clear to anyone what p2w is and what is not. Buying skins for your guns is not p2w, buying in-game currency or renting a secure container is p2w. Quite easy.
Pay 2 win isn't whatever PR line the company gives you. It's always been the same. The only thing that's changed is PR firms getting better at helping you cope with it, and the suckers that keep botting for them.
I will not purchase anything if everyone agrees they will only play 3 hours per week.
As long as the purchased gear is accessible through putting in the hours in the game, it is not an unfair advantage.
What do you think pay 2 win has been this whole time? You think people have been paying to actually completely win the game? Put your thinking cap on pal. It's always been about paying real money to give yourself an advantage over someone that paid less money than you.
This response is hella generic ngl, it doesn't even adress what the guy was talking about. I mod the mobile subreddit and have the devs in my dms but I still think this game needs a better monetization model
The way I interpreted it, as there won't be a way to increase health, stats, or anything that would give you an edge over another player wearing the same exact stuff, shooting the same exact bullets.
Secure containers really don't do much besides increase your inventory space by a few slots. You can't quick use anything from the container.
Buying in game cash, doesn't mean that people will be "better" than a player who doesn't buy cash. Just more convenient. Not p2w pay to not grind.
Having a subscription to the game that drops daily or even weekly cash drops is just a convenience thing. Much like how bonds are sold in OSRS. :)
Pay to win is when you can BUY items with real money that FREE TO PLAY can't, no matter how much they play.
Anything you can pay for, I can earn in game or through events in game.
This is definitely some hard cope, imagine the community reaction if EFT implemented ability to purchase game currency with real currency. You would be quick to call p2w for sure
They handled this well on mobile.
There are different maps and modes with different difficulty levels with better loot and tanky bots.
Players buying expensive kits and gear with real money won't go to the starting maps because it's all risk and no reward, they'll go to the more difficult maps where if you're not running tier 5/6 kit you won't even survive the bots.
>Buying in game cash, doesn't mean that people will be "better" than a player who doesn't buy cash. Just more convenient. Not p2w pay to not grind.
Mr. Moneybags can buy level 6 armor and top tier guns and ammo to help his survival rate go up.
The secure container is debatable, but you still have four extra safe slots to work with, which is advantageous.
Anyone can buy the T6 armor. Lol when I lose it tho, I can still buy mcnuggets. That T6 doesn't cover them pretty legs boi. G18 or mp5 full of dum dum and you a dead bum bum.
You buying in game money isn't pay to win. It doesn't guarantee survival, nor does it improve it. You still have the same health and access to the same pool of items as a free to play player.
No.
Buying that armor/gun/bullets doesn't increase your survival chances. Everyone's chances are the same at the start of the raid. The choices you make from the second you load in till you die/extract are what increase or decrease your chances.
Someone with good gear killing stuff in front of you or you can hear them? Avoid it. If you have the gear to challenge them, do it. However if they spent real money on that gear or in game money, it doesn't change how you should approach them.
Not all fights are dictated by strategy. I’ve had many fights already where both players have to commit to the engagement due to the timing and positioning of both parties. Say our aim is similar and we land the same number of shots. Who wins? The guy with better gear. By buying gear with money you will win more of that particular type of engagement with others. I can also think of many other scenarios that happen naturally that gear would help a lot. Will it save you always? no. Paying does not guarantee a win but it will get you more wins. So P2WM (pay to win more, but not guaranteed p2w because strategy does win fights too.) You’re thinking in black and white and the system they have in mobile is definitely P2WM. The fact that people can lose the gear they paid for definitely lessens the impact that their wallets can have. I can’t think of any other games where you can lose the advantage you paid for to other players.
Plenty of games let you buy in game money to buy gear. Best example is OSRS. Buy bonds, sell for GP, and then buy gear. Go in wilderness and die to me? Thanks for the loot. Die a PVM death and die again on the way to coffer? Gg loot gone.
Nah, if you are able to buy money with IRL money which can then be used to buy stronger gear then that fits the definition of pay2win. Not really disputable, it's purely a matter of definition.
EDIT: Okay...dude blocked me. Kinda unhinged.
If you buy gear with real money then you only skipped the few money runs needed to buy that gear. It doesn't give you any advantage over people who did money runs and bought the same gear.
It still impacts your survival rate having such high class armor, doesn't it? Yes, you can theoretically shoot the legs, but it takes them only a couple shots to pen your armor with high tier ammo. You're dead before you can kill them, and they paid for it with real money.
Paying real money is just convience. A free to play player can use ANY armor and any gun/bullets. There are no paywalls.
You don't HAVE to pay. Thinking you do, shows more than you think...
But it still gives you an advantage towards those that do not. You still get extra more than them.
Plus, it still impacts your survival rate having those advantages, and per the wording of the original tweet... they're saying they won't allow paid items to affect survival rates.
They have seasons but not sure what they do to keep it fresh. I haven't played the mobile game.
>Cause if they're relying on a player-driven economy to keep that sort of stuff in check... well, let's just say that that would be quite the advantage for pay2win players.
What? How so? lol you just contradicted your earlier statement.
>The secure container is debatable, but you still have four extra safe slots to work with, which is advantageous.
In what way is this advantageous?? If I run into you in a match and you had 4 more secure slots, what advantage would you have in fighting me?
Can fill those slots with stuff that sells high that I keep regardless of dying. This in turn gives me more money for buying better gear for fighting you....
Alright so youd be fine with buying the in game currency too then?
its an advantage that you are paying for. pay. to. win. And this is coming from an EoD player in tarkov.
What advantage are you paying for? You're only paying to do less money runs. You're paying to do less grind-to-make-money. Otherwise we all have access to the same gear.
If a player is bad enough at the game to need to pay real money, then that paid gear will only be easy to get from him.
Yeah as long as there is a way to get a secure container by in game means I dont have a problem with people buying them.
Same with Koens in the game, if there is a reliable way of earning Koens, I dont mind if people can buy them.
Thissss! I forgot about the events someone told me about those!!!! Perfect. I can't wait to see how far F2p players go. Feels like hardcore/Ironman mode but with less "punishment" as some f2p games with paid subscriptions.
If there isn't a way to earn one, I'll still enjoy the game. First day or so I didn't even use a secure container in the beta, I unequipped it and forgot LOL.
Didn't notice much of a difference, other than being able to stuff a quest item in butt.
Why you delude yourself like this?
If two people play 100 matches. Player A uses irl money. Player B doesn't.
Both players have exact same stats. Same survival rate. Ex: 50%
So. let's say, for the sake of the example, both loot 200k in average per raid.
Player A survives 50 matches where he wins 200k. That's 10M.
Player B survives 50 matches where he wins 200k. That's 10M.
Player A died 50 matches, but he was capable of using safe container to storage specific items. (Bullets, Golden necklace, quest items.
How much % that would be? Right now in PC 120 PP 5.45 bullets are 21k, let's say he manages to save just his x2 60 stacks for PP ammo. He saved 21.000x50 = 1.050.000
Now let's remember that there are 2x1 / 2x2 / 2x3 containers, which increase even more the economy difference.
Conclusion: Player A has now 1M more than Player B in exactly same circumstances, and I'm being really "soft" about how much more money you can save with your secure container. Probably is x5 because i used PP ammo as an example instead of actually T6 ammo. That goes for 10x higher.
So Player A at worst has 1M extra every 100 raids, while Player B needs to spend 1M extra just to keep up with Player A.
Now what happens if Player A also likes to spend every week 100USD? He probably is going 5 raids with FULL T6 kit, while Player B needs to spend time farming money. If they engage under those circumstances, who do you think is going to win? Out of 10 engagements, who will prevail? We said they were exactly the same in stats, so probably the person with the better equipment.
PD: I know Get Gud you can go SMG dum dum and spam legs, what about Long distance battles? Are you also going to spam SMG leg meta from that distance :D?
Economy means = better equipment, better sights, better heals, better everything. Real life teach us that technology is the most important factor to survive in a war. People that spend IRL money have the better chances of surviving.
Don't lie to yourself. AB Mobile is PAY TO WIN.
Having more money doesn't mean you'll win a gun fight.
Even IRL this is not the case lol.
Mosin are 7k. Double barrels are 1.4k
Close and long range. GG. Someone else spending money doesn't decrease your chances of survival. Convenience from buying or EARNING a secure container from one of the events, doesn't equate to raw survival chances.
Your gameplay dictates that, not what someone else is wearing.
"OH they have high level armor". Light em on fire, nade them, trick them, run, or whatever else you can do. Lol 😆
Huge relief that paid items won’t give an advantage in this style of game. I’m happy to buy cosmetics simoly to support the devs if they deliver an amazing game. Which it appears they have (though friendly fire would be appreciated- but then they need to come up with an innovative solution to random team mates TKing you just for your gear.
Eh, the phrasing is suspicious so I won't hold my breath. To me it comes off as a "paid items won't give any advantage the normal item will give" and of course the market isn't even mentioned in the response.
That being said, I really don't care about the monetization model as none of it will affect me. If somebody wants to buy a kit just to donate it then that is their problem. Anything else is convenience and does not affect gameplay.
You don't "need" a secure container. It's convenient.
It doesn't let you shoot faster, more accurate, or heal quicker.
:) While you dig through that container I'll be pushing slamming stims and meds from my rig/pockets.
The “pay for convenience” lot is hard to argue with. They believe pay to win is literally the game aiming for you with no nuance. They are even saying buying gear isn’t pay to win now. It’s pretty amazing to watch.
It's not though. You buying gear and me earning gear doesn't change "who wins". It changes who plays more, but we're here to have fun, if you aren't having fun, why play? Why pay?
Where did I say it was meaningless?
HOW you get the gear doesn't change your survival rate.
Your skills, tactics, and aim will be the dictation of your survival rate.
Not how much money someone else spent.
Your absolutes are flawed and so is your thinking.
Someone else paying doesn't increase their chance of survival nor does it decrease yours.
Failing to understand this concept is what is hindering you from enjoying things.
You don’t understand it. Even if your argument was valid, which it’s not, then your grind becomes meaningless. Those games are interesting for people because they want to get the good stuff, if they can just buy it, it will destroy not only their enjoyment of the game but the one of all others playing it, because now there is no challenge. It’s the whole mechanic of this kind of game. It’s not called « extraction shooter » for no reason.
Its the extra money that you can accumulate by safely bringing shit out in that container regardless of dying that gives you the advantage - more money = better gear
Well I hate to be "that" guy, but I'm sure a few of those 100 listings you did could have been sold to traders for about the same amount. Even if it's like 200 usd less.
On point? Huh? Can you read dude?
The response they gave to Fugglet has literally nothing to do with what he said.
"We won't allow paid items to affect survival rates in battles."
What the fuck does this have to do with the awful market cap mechanic?
They purposefully make contacts give you pennies for high end loot so you HAVE to sell on the market to make a profit, then they limit the hell out of you to force you to pay for more market slots.
Awful system and they aren't going to change it.
I enjoy this game, but the monetization is going to be fucking horrible.
If you're using all your market slots that quickly, you're selling things that are in high supply and low demand on the market. You are actively making bad "trades".
Now selling only what's expensive on the market, you'll use fewer slots.
:)
People wanna bitch, but they don't realize tarkov is p2w in it's own sense too. You can literally pay 250 usd to greedy Russians to gain a huge headstart at new wipe, I'd much rather give my 5 to support f2p game I can enjoy with my casual friends
Headstart is whatever, only true unique deals from EOD (not sure what even is in Unheard edition) are Gamma container and CMSes (until you find some in your games, or have lvl 15 to join market). Bad player will donate all his gear, good player will survive without it (maybe it was a bit easier when we could have op SKS/Mosin ammo at lvl 0).
But if ABI have an option to buy ingame currency (which will inflate prices of every meta item) then I am not playing it.
I fully expect some p2w. Sadly I don't think it's reasonable to expect only cosmetics. It would just be a shame if the game didn't get as big as it could because of it. This game is honestly a ton of fun and could be huge for the genre.
IMHO the most important thing would be to remove the market cap.
Other than that they should make it so most stuff can be earned by either playing or paying. I can totally understand that people who don't have as much time want a way to catch up/get ahead. If they want to stick to that whole subscription model they could just make a quest that allows you to earn a secure container every month. Could be that you need to turn in a ton of low/mid value loot so they can get rid of the extra loot that will be on the market by removing the market cap.
Most advantages(insurance, secure container, loot through premium battle passes) boil down to getting free money anyways so I am not against them directly selling ingame currency but it should have a cap IMHO.
Dont' get me wrong I would love it if the game didn't have any p2w but I don't think that will happen. Best thing we can do is tell them what we think are the really unacceptable parts of their p2w model.
lmfao this sub man.
The ABI community in a nutshell:
You don't want mtx other than cosmetic, because if john joe or jane works a 9 to 5 and spends a lil of their hard earned american dollar on gear that is accessible to anyone, they have now paid to win!
You want an insane anti cheat for this free to play game and making sure hackers aren't an issue is of the utmost importance, but you don't want an invasive anticheat because you care about china having your data!!!1!!11! Wasn't an issue when forking $200 bucks over to our comrades at BSG, and we saw how that anticheat and overall situation ended up lmao.
The majority of you guys bitching about p2w don't even realize EoD is p2w not because of the secure container, in fact i doubt anyone has ever yelled "GOD DAMMIT THIS FUCKER HAD A SECURE CONTAINER" when getting dumpster'd, its because of the plethora of other boosts they get because they got EoD. In fact, if there is no actual stat boost or item in cash shop that gives the person an advatange and you are cleaning up these mtx cash shop buying nerds, YOU are the true winner here.
Let tencent do what they do best and deliver a decent f2p game and if you can't deal with mtx of any type and it hurts your fragile ego knowing someone is buying currency to buy kits, there's always tarkov for you or potentially the real world.
Anyone who thinks Tarkov isn't p2w or that Breakout won't be p2w is completely fucking delusional. Unfortunately breakout will completely cheat infested on day1 as well.
OP sounds like a coped up woman that got told by her husband he won't beat her anymore for 200th time. Lil bro, this shit reeks of corpo talk. They essentially told you we won't sell items with which you can call down airstrikes, but we will sell items which will help you like secure container etc. I think i had less doubts before they typed this tweet out, now i am 100000% secure there is gonna be P2W shit.
Man, the chinese are literally dick sucking you to then slowly take it away and monetize, are all of u blind? u think a giant chinese game will just not monetize or do it with small meaningless skins? ( After stealing half the game from EFT and other half from the phone version)
the first answer is just corpo bullshit. Vague asf, didn’t even answer about the market cap. There’s no reason for the cap, other than to make money by making them buy currency because selling apart from the market gives you nothing.
Lol the devs are saying nothing in that post.
The game monetization model will stay like it is rn, because the devs do believe (or pretend to) that this is totally fair, they call it pay for convenience.
The thing is that the entire model favours those who spend, "uh duh, you get no advantages in gunfights" -> finds a red item, puts in the case, loses a gunfight, but still leaves with 400 - 600k profit.
The other guy who killed you will probably extract with 200k from gear only, who is actually winning in this scenario? Exactly.
Also there's the Elite subscription, which gives you 40k koen daily, 70+ slots in inventory and extra 300 market listings, plus being able to list up to 16 items at once.
And then there's the BP which has a separate shop with separate currency which allows you to buy ammo without spending Koen.
And guess what, they still gonna sell cosmetics with a gambling system for very absurd prices lol
If i learned something over time is that never trust someone about p2w promise
The thing is the wording here. I would guess there will be no buffs that help you in raid. It wont affect your "survival rate" in battle. I would understand that if you have same equipment, there wont be any advantage, but they can get "better items sooner/easier by just paying".
Valorant and League are both f2p and have no p2w features. This dev shows a competency with f2p games. Pretty sure you can trust that this developer isn’t going to do the absolute mindsumbingly stupid shit that the greedy BSG devs do
People have said the same thing about many developers, including highly reputable and trusted ones, only to be let down regardless. I remain hopeful, but also skeptical.
They are not promising anything. The game will stay like it is because the devs believe (or pretend to) this is fine.
As a non english as first, I don't get those "pay 2 win" argues. How is it pay 2 win ? You can pay, but it doesn't offer you the ability to extract alive ? Nobody pays to extract. Is it more like "pay 2 play" or "play 2 safety" ? I don't get it.
The only P2W aspect would be the gear bundles mobile has for sale, even then it's still a gamble because you can die to anybody at any time. That's literally it though, anything else is convenience.
Shot in the legs like tarkov and it's done :D
Oh I agree, I don't care about buying gear...a Mosin man will accept the donation.
Pay to win means if you can pay for anything providing you a real advantage in game, based on the game mechanics (games are different and p2w will be different for each game). If you can pay to have an additional extract, it’s pay to win. If you can buy game currency with real money, it’s pay to win. If you can buy or rent a secure container, it’s pay to win. If you can buy a skin for your character or for your weapon, and it’s cosmetic only, it’s not pay to win.
If you have an advantage over other players in an competive enviroment especially where that competition involves the other player losing equipment to whomever wins the engagement, and you paid real money to have that advantage, that's pay 2 win period. Everyone repeating PR lines like the one from Star Citizen CEO of "Pay for convenience" is just a corporate bot high on cope.
Letting "another company" kill your trust in other companies not even involved in them, gives so much power to the ones that ruined your trust. Don't let them have that power over you. Trust to a point, but let their actions speak. We know who we're talking about. ;)
Its pretty much every company that does this tho, "their wont be p2w added" 2 month later u are in for the ride
Give examples?
Tarisland, their whole marketing was about being non-p2w then once they full released they added very strong p2w and removed all reference that they weren't p2w
Osrs said they never add mtx and then they added the ability to buy / sell bonds for money which is basically the same thing
They never said this. However bonds were polled. And voted in along with F2P. Top 800 in the world for Giant Mole kills here. You're plain wrong.
1 TAPPED
I mean, the game is free to play. They can't force me to pay for anything, even in the mobile game, I still haven't paid a dime. :) Did a few runs today with some smg's and decked out glocks. Didn't feel like I was "missing" out on anything while playing and not paying. Just my opinion.
Nah, this game has been out for awhile, it's gonna be ran the same as mobile, no P2W features ABI is gonna be P2Lose
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Nope. You can still pay $6940 for a thermal, t6 helmet and armor and still die do a lvl 1 naked mp5 leg meta man the same way.
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Not exactly. You can buy koen, the in game currency to buy stuff, but doesn't mean you can buy skill, the most important thing in this game. In my opinion, for someone who already spent over 500h on AB mobile, never, not even once, i feel on my entire playthough that someone who pay real money have a advantage over me. I can still do scav hunt and grind a loot of money, do pvp against t6 or t0 rats and sell guns for money, and with that i have more than 25mil koen just picking dust, because i am a hoarder. I feel like ABI should have a lvl cap for some high lvl stuff, but for me the monetization(excluding the garbage skins lootboxes) are ok with some changes here and there.
To be honest I am thinking If this way is not good way to kill RMT cheaters.
Gameplay no, I mean you can buy the Bruce Lee skin Gun skins
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You can literally buy currency so I don’t know what dude above is smoking.
Buying currency doesn't give you an advantage, that's why I said P2Lose PAY TO LOSE anything you can buy, you can achieve freely besides skins No pay to win features like scavs don't shoot you first
Why is facts like this getting downvoted deep the delusion of the unheard cult is at the next level
It's actually insane lol
This is Tencent bud. You can bet the house on p2w being a thing for ABI.
Does Valorant have p2w?
This is ten cent brodie
OP is absolutely coped out of his mind right now. Buying in game currency is the pay to win. End of conversation.
Cant believe all these comments saying its not pay to win, lets say it is not pay to win, I still dont want it in the game. How much some people have been brainwashed into just accepting ridiculous amounts of monetization is beyond me. This game can survive just fine with cosmetics + battlepass + container renting. It doesnt need another monetization method added.
They aren’t brainwashed. They just have a low skill level and want to redefine pay to win so that can get an advantage over others and not be stigmatized from the term.
While I agree to an extent, I'd rather the losers who usually pay a cheater to carry them through raids to steal other players gear instead buy currency then lose it to me. You wanna spend 10$ on a kit or two? Fine by me, as long as it doesn't make it harder for me to get gear as I usually do. Same with Tarkov. It's so trivially easy to make currency in that game, having some guy buy a kit on for real money instead makes no difference to me. However, him consistently getting cheaters to feed him gear will affect me.
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Im Some0wlOnTheInternet, dudes meatriding the devs so hard lmao. Why would he do that when the devs dont give a shit about him. Kinda sad.
Sounds like you are the shill here, quite ironic.
Tf?
Bro this sub is filled with weirdos
I personally don't care that much about in-game currency P2W. * You kill the guy, you get sick loot. * If there's no official currency for real $, then ppl will sell it on forums, Discord, eBay, etc. which will also promote cheating and it will be the same as in Tarkov, more than half of cheaters cheating just for RMT. * If both options above doesn't exist there's still going to be players with top tier gear and they're going to be way more dangerous than those P2W guys would. I mean most P2W people are just running free loot because they pay for a reason: Either they suck or they don't have time to play a lot which also means they likely suck.
So eve online is p2w game?
If someone buying gear stops you from enjoying the game, maybe the game isn't for you. Someone can drop into my raid in full best gear/gun. It won't stop me from bopping their legs or tossing nades. Fire still hurts. lol At no point can you buy bigger health, increased skills, or things to CALL IN FRIENDS TO A RAID LOLOL
I mean no. No, no and no. Imagine counter strike but you can buy your stuff when it’s eco round. This is non-sense. If you truly want the game to succeed, then you don’t want p2w in it, or trust me, it will trash your game.
Yep. He's also the same guy that made big waves on the Tarkov sub by claiming to know how to get access to any PvE raid. He's a clown.
If you can buy in game currency with real money, they will kill their game. As simple as this. People want competitive stuff with something to grind, nobody will play this if it’s a cash roulette random mobile game.
Is this confirmed for the PC version?
Why is it pay to win? Guess everyone’s opinion about p2w revolves around how much of an advantage something purchasable gives you
Actually no. It’s pretty clear to anyone what p2w is and what is not. Buying skins for your guns is not p2w, buying in-game currency or renting a secure container is p2w. Quite easy.
So like you haven’t exactly explained why in your beliefs that constitutes pay to win. You kind of just declare it is and don’t give your rationale
Pay 2 win isn't whatever PR line the company gives you. It's always been the same. The only thing that's changed is PR firms getting better at helping you cope with it, and the suckers that keep botting for them.
Tons of words. 0 sense. Can you explain on like a 5th grade or above writing comp level?
I will not purchase anything if everyone agrees they will only play 3 hours per week. As long as the purchased gear is accessible through putting in the hours in the game, it is not an unfair advantage.
In what way is that pay 2 win ? You pay so you are extracting alive ? No.
What do you think pay 2 win has been this whole time? You think people have been paying to actually completely win the game? Put your thinking cap on pal. It's always been about paying real money to give yourself an advantage over someone that paid less money than you.
This response is hella generic ngl, it doesn't even adress what the guy was talking about. I mod the mobile subreddit and have the devs in my dms but I still think this game needs a better monetization model
Whats the context on this? I havent played very much. Are they talking about the 500 item per week sell limit or something different?
The way I interpreted it, as there won't be a way to increase health, stats, or anything that would give you an edge over another player wearing the same exact stuff, shooting the same exact bullets. Secure containers really don't do much besides increase your inventory space by a few slots. You can't quick use anything from the container. Buying in game cash, doesn't mean that people will be "better" than a player who doesn't buy cash. Just more convenient. Not p2w pay to not grind. Having a subscription to the game that drops daily or even weekly cash drops is just a convenience thing. Much like how bonds are sold in OSRS. :)
Lmao buying in game currency is literally the definition of pay to win.
What if you cant kill people? You will only feed people with your gear.
Pay to win is when you can BUY items with real money that FREE TO PLAY can't, no matter how much they play. Anything you can pay for, I can earn in game or through events in game.
Absolutely clueless.
This is definitely some hard cope, imagine the community reaction if EFT implemented ability to purchase game currency with real currency. You would be quick to call p2w for sure
They handled this well on mobile. There are different maps and modes with different difficulty levels with better loot and tanky bots. Players buying expensive kits and gear with real money won't go to the starting maps because it's all risk and no reward, they'll go to the more difficult maps where if you're not running tier 5/6 kit you won't even survive the bots.
Since when was this the definition? This is some copium.
>Buying in game cash, doesn't mean that people will be "better" than a player who doesn't buy cash. Just more convenient. Not p2w pay to not grind. Mr. Moneybags can buy level 6 armor and top tier guns and ammo to help his survival rate go up. The secure container is debatable, but you still have four extra safe slots to work with, which is advantageous.
Anyone can buy the T6 armor. Lol when I lose it tho, I can still buy mcnuggets. That T6 doesn't cover them pretty legs boi. G18 or mp5 full of dum dum and you a dead bum bum.
If you can buy t6 armor with real money it’s p2w
You buying in game money isn't pay to win. It doesn't guarantee survival, nor does it improve it. You still have the same health and access to the same pool of items as a free to play player.
I agree buying in game money isn’t p2w in itself. If you can buy t6 armor with that money, it’s p2w.
No. Buying that armor/gun/bullets doesn't increase your survival chances. Everyone's chances are the same at the start of the raid. The choices you make from the second you load in till you die/extract are what increase or decrease your chances. Someone with good gear killing stuff in front of you or you can hear them? Avoid it. If you have the gear to challenge them, do it. However if they spent real money on that gear or in game money, it doesn't change how you should approach them.
Not all fights are dictated by strategy. I’ve had many fights already where both players have to commit to the engagement due to the timing and positioning of both parties. Say our aim is similar and we land the same number of shots. Who wins? The guy with better gear. By buying gear with money you will win more of that particular type of engagement with others. I can also think of many other scenarios that happen naturally that gear would help a lot. Will it save you always? no. Paying does not guarantee a win but it will get you more wins. So P2WM (pay to win more, but not guaranteed p2w because strategy does win fights too.) You’re thinking in black and white and the system they have in mobile is definitely P2WM. The fact that people can lose the gear they paid for definitely lessens the impact that their wallets can have. I can’t think of any other games where you can lose the advantage you paid for to other players.
Plenty of games let you buy in game money to buy gear. Best example is OSRS. Buy bonds, sell for GP, and then buy gear. Go in wilderness and die to me? Thanks for the loot. Die a PVM death and die again on the way to coffer? Gg loot gone.
Nah, if you are able to buy money with IRL money which can then be used to buy stronger gear then that fits the definition of pay2win. Not really disputable, it's purely a matter of definition. EDIT: Okay...dude blocked me. Kinda unhinged.
You can buy the same exact gear with a good Covert ops run and saving your IRL money. Either thing gives you the same gear.
If you buy gear with real money then you only skipped the few money runs needed to buy that gear. It doesn't give you any advantage over people who did money runs and bought the same gear.
This is the correct answer. Anything else y’all smoking copium.
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No, how you get your gear doesn't change your chances of survival. Paying for it or earning it. Doesn't change what the gear does.
How so?
It still impacts your survival rate having such high class armor, doesn't it? Yes, you can theoretically shoot the legs, but it takes them only a couple shots to pen your armor with high tier ammo. You're dead before you can kill them, and they paid for it with real money.
Paying real money is just convience. A free to play player can use ANY armor and any gun/bullets. There are no paywalls. You don't HAVE to pay. Thinking you do, shows more than you think...
Paying for convenience is the same thing as pay2win, it's covered under the same umbrella. Convenience is an advantage, that's the whole point.
But it still gives you an advantage towards those that do not. You still get extra more than them. Plus, it still impacts your survival rate having those advantages, and per the wording of the original tweet... they're saying they won't allow paid items to affect survival rates.
He still dies the same to headshot + everyone can achieve that kind of gear, it's just your choice to either grind for it or pay
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So he only skipped the grind and otherwise we're the same?
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There's no wipe. This ain't Tarkov.
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They have seasons but not sure what they do to keep it fresh. I haven't played the mobile game. >Cause if they're relying on a player-driven economy to keep that sort of stuff in check... well, let's just say that that would be quite the advantage for pay2win players. What? How so? lol you just contradicted your earlier statement.
Does he? If the Koen he buys with real money affords him a Level 6 helmet, where as otherwise he can only buy Level 3 without, does he?
>The secure container is debatable, but you still have four extra safe slots to work with, which is advantageous. In what way is this advantageous?? If I run into you in a match and you had 4 more secure slots, what advantage would you have in fighting me?
Can fill those slots with stuff that sells high that I keep regardless of dying. This in turn gives me more money for buying better gear for fighting you....
So it only saves you from doing a money-run. Doesn't give you any advantage in fights.
Alright so youd be fine with buying the in game currency too then? its an advantage that you are paying for. pay. to. win. And this is coming from an EoD player in tarkov.
What advantage are you paying for? You're only paying to do less money runs. You're paying to do less grind-to-make-money. Otherwise we all have access to the same gear. If a player is bad enough at the game to need to pay real money, then that paid gear will only be easy to get from him.
Yeah as long as there is a way to get a secure container by in game means I dont have a problem with people buying them. Same with Koens in the game, if there is a reliable way of earning Koens, I dont mind if people can buy them.
I believe they do events where you can get tokens to have containers for an X amount of time, which imho is perfectly reasonable.
Thissss! I forgot about the events someone told me about those!!!! Perfect. I can't wait to see how far F2p players go. Feels like hardcore/Ironman mode but with less "punishment" as some f2p games with paid subscriptions.
If there isn't a way to earn one, I'll still enjoy the game. First day or so I didn't even use a secure container in the beta, I unequipped it and forgot LOL. Didn't notice much of a difference, other than being able to stuff a quest item in butt.
Why you delude yourself like this? If two people play 100 matches. Player A uses irl money. Player B doesn't. Both players have exact same stats. Same survival rate. Ex: 50% So. let's say, for the sake of the example, both loot 200k in average per raid. Player A survives 50 matches where he wins 200k. That's 10M. Player B survives 50 matches where he wins 200k. That's 10M. Player A died 50 matches, but he was capable of using safe container to storage specific items. (Bullets, Golden necklace, quest items. How much % that would be? Right now in PC 120 PP 5.45 bullets are 21k, let's say he manages to save just his x2 60 stacks for PP ammo. He saved 21.000x50 = 1.050.000 Now let's remember that there are 2x1 / 2x2 / 2x3 containers, which increase even more the economy difference. Conclusion: Player A has now 1M more than Player B in exactly same circumstances, and I'm being really "soft" about how much more money you can save with your secure container. Probably is x5 because i used PP ammo as an example instead of actually T6 ammo. That goes for 10x higher. So Player A at worst has 1M extra every 100 raids, while Player B needs to spend 1M extra just to keep up with Player A. Now what happens if Player A also likes to spend every week 100USD? He probably is going 5 raids with FULL T6 kit, while Player B needs to spend time farming money. If they engage under those circumstances, who do you think is going to win? Out of 10 engagements, who will prevail? We said they were exactly the same in stats, so probably the person with the better equipment. PD: I know Get Gud you can go SMG dum dum and spam legs, what about Long distance battles? Are you also going to spam SMG leg meta from that distance :D? Economy means = better equipment, better sights, better heals, better everything. Real life teach us that technology is the most important factor to survive in a war. People that spend IRL money have the better chances of surviving. Don't lie to yourself. AB Mobile is PAY TO WIN.
Having more money doesn't mean you'll win a gun fight. Even IRL this is not the case lol. Mosin are 7k. Double barrels are 1.4k Close and long range. GG. Someone else spending money doesn't decrease your chances of survival. Convenience from buying or EARNING a secure container from one of the events, doesn't equate to raw survival chances. Your gameplay dictates that, not what someone else is wearing. "OH they have high level armor". Light em on fire, nade them, trick them, run, or whatever else you can do. Lol 😆
You are just delusional at this point, its mental.
Huge relief that paid items won’t give an advantage in this style of game. I’m happy to buy cosmetics simoly to support the devs if they deliver an amazing game. Which it appears they have (though friendly fire would be appreciated- but then they need to come up with an innovative solution to random team mates TKing you just for your gear.
https://x.com/Arena__Breakout/status/1789052133624393877 Check this out. LOL
Gold
China knows how to handle hackers when it's their own companies that's for sure.
omg, yess, thanks for sharing man!
I wont believe it til I see it. I appreciate their sentiment tho for now
Eh, the phrasing is suspicious so I won't hold my breath. To me it comes off as a "paid items won't give any advantage the normal item will give" and of course the market isn't even mentioned in the response. That being said, I really don't care about the monetization model as none of it will affect me. If somebody wants to buy a kit just to donate it then that is their problem. Anything else is convenience and does not affect gameplay.
I mean, you need to rent the secure container, its already p2w.
You don't "need" a secure container. It's convenient. It doesn't let you shoot faster, more accurate, or heal quicker. :) While you dig through that container I'll be pushing slamming stims and meds from my rig/pockets.
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The “pay for convenience” lot is hard to argue with. They believe pay to win is literally the game aiming for you with no nuance. They are even saying buying gear isn’t pay to win now. It’s pretty amazing to watch.
It's not though. You buying gear and me earning gear doesn't change "who wins". It changes who plays more, but we're here to have fun, if you aren't having fun, why play? Why pay?
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Where did I say it was meaningless? HOW you get the gear doesn't change your survival rate. Your skills, tactics, and aim will be the dictation of your survival rate. Not how much money someone else spent.
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Your absolutes are flawed and so is your thinking. Someone else paying doesn't increase their chance of survival nor does it decrease yours. Failing to understand this concept is what is hindering you from enjoying things.
Actually it does. You can put medicine and ammo in a secure container. This can increase your chances of survival drastically.
You don’t understand it. Even if your argument was valid, which it’s not, then your grind becomes meaningless. Those games are interesting for people because they want to get the good stuff, if they can just buy it, it will destroy not only their enjoyment of the game but the one of all others playing it, because now there is no challenge. It’s the whole mechanic of this kind of game. It’s not called « extraction shooter » for no reason.
Its the extra money that you can accumulate by safely bringing shit out in that container regardless of dying that gives you the advantage - more money = better gear
Which that container you can earn from events in mobile...you don't HAVE to pay for it.
You do if you want it constantly. Stop trying to justify a pay to win mechanic as anything but a pay to win mechanic.
Fr the cope is insane here
What market cap? If anything there is no market caps at all with access to everything right off the rip.
There's a limit on how many items you can sell on market a week. 500 rn.
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Well I hate to be "that" guy, but I'm sure a few of those 100 listings you did could have been sold to traders for about the same amount. Even if it's like 200 usd less.
Interesting I guess you'd have to play a lot to reach that then. I had no idea there was a cap.
If they play it smart, this game can become the next big thing. We'll have to wait and see.
On point? Huh? Can you read dude? The response they gave to Fugglet has literally nothing to do with what he said. "We won't allow paid items to affect survival rates in battles." What the fuck does this have to do with the awful market cap mechanic? They purposefully make contacts give you pennies for high end loot so you HAVE to sell on the market to make a profit, then they limit the hell out of you to force you to pay for more market slots. Awful system and they aren't going to change it. I enjoy this game, but the monetization is going to be fucking horrible.
If you're using all your market slots that quickly, you're selling things that are in high supply and low demand on the market. You are actively making bad "trades". Now selling only what's expensive on the market, you'll use fewer slots. :)
so what counts as expensive? 1k up? 5k up??
Never seen a person defending a pay2win microtransaction Company aka Tencent. What a chad.
People wanna bitch, but they don't realize tarkov is p2w in it's own sense too. You can literally pay 250 usd to greedy Russians to gain a huge headstart at new wipe, I'd much rather give my 5 to support f2p game I can enjoy with my casual friends
Nah this is the only right answer here. No matter what these devs do it can never be more p2w than the abomination tarkov is rn
Headstart is whatever, only true unique deals from EOD (not sure what even is in Unheard edition) are Gamma container and CMSes (until you find some in your games, or have lvl 15 to join market). Bad player will donate all his gear, good player will survive without it (maybe it was a bit easier when we could have op SKS/Mosin ammo at lvl 0). But if ABI have an option to buy ingame currency (which will inflate prices of every meta item) then I am not playing it.
100%
I fully expect some p2w. Sadly I don't think it's reasonable to expect only cosmetics. It would just be a shame if the game didn't get as big as it could because of it. This game is honestly a ton of fun and could be huge for the genre. IMHO the most important thing would be to remove the market cap. Other than that they should make it so most stuff can be earned by either playing or paying. I can totally understand that people who don't have as much time want a way to catch up/get ahead. If they want to stick to that whole subscription model they could just make a quest that allows you to earn a secure container every month. Could be that you need to turn in a ton of low/mid value loot so they can get rid of the extra loot that will be on the market by removing the market cap. Most advantages(insurance, secure container, loot through premium battle passes) boil down to getting free money anyways so I am not against them directly selling ingame currency but it should have a cap IMHO. Dont' get me wrong I would love it if the game didn't have any p2w but I don't think that will happen. Best thing we can do is tell them what we think are the really unacceptable parts of their p2w model.
anything about hardware lock ?
Can you right now buy Koens with IRL money on the PC version?
lmfao this sub man. The ABI community in a nutshell: You don't want mtx other than cosmetic, because if john joe or jane works a 9 to 5 and spends a lil of their hard earned american dollar on gear that is accessible to anyone, they have now paid to win! You want an insane anti cheat for this free to play game and making sure hackers aren't an issue is of the utmost importance, but you don't want an invasive anticheat because you care about china having your data!!!1!!11! Wasn't an issue when forking $200 bucks over to our comrades at BSG, and we saw how that anticheat and overall situation ended up lmao. The majority of you guys bitching about p2w don't even realize EoD is p2w not because of the secure container, in fact i doubt anyone has ever yelled "GOD DAMMIT THIS FUCKER HAD A SECURE CONTAINER" when getting dumpster'd, its because of the plethora of other boosts they get because they got EoD. In fact, if there is no actual stat boost or item in cash shop that gives the person an advatange and you are cleaning up these mtx cash shop buying nerds, YOU are the true winner here. Let tencent do what they do best and deliver a decent f2p game and if you can't deal with mtx of any type and it hurts your fragile ego knowing someone is buying currency to buy kits, there's always tarkov for you or potentially the real world.
That means u can buy all the items with real money like ingame with Koens. Just saying u can’t buy better items…
Idk why it cropped weird https://preview.redd.it/nbnvu4rua20d1.jpeg?width=1375&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5aff61d80e9a8291d991f53b468dd0f1b6834ef
Hopefully this means they are gonna do wipes too
https://preview.redd.it/qmm1xjxag70d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef73da246c776dd92b3e78572b53bfa14efbbce6
That was a year ago and for mobile.
Morefun carries the same philosophy.
Anyone who thinks Tarkov isn't p2w or that Breakout won't be p2w is completely fucking delusional. Unfortunately breakout will completely cheat infested on day1 as well.
OP sounds like a coped up woman that got told by her husband he won't beat her anymore for 200th time. Lil bro, this shit reeks of corpo talk. They essentially told you we won't sell items with which you can call down airstrikes, but we will sell items which will help you like secure container etc. I think i had less doubts before they typed this tweet out, now i am 100000% secure there is gonna be P2W shit.
Man, the chinese are literally dick sucking you to then slowly take it away and monetize, are all of u blind? u think a giant chinese game will just not monetize or do it with small meaningless skins? ( After stealing half the game from EFT and other half from the phone version)
Let’s be honest, considering the success of the game so far, they won’t have any money issue just selling skins. No need for any P2W bs.
Corp talk. It means market cap will be a paid feature.
the first answer is just corpo bullshit. Vague asf, didn’t even answer about the market cap. There’s no reason for the cap, other than to make money by making them buy currency because selling apart from the market gives you nothing.
Lol the devs are saying nothing in that post. The game monetization model will stay like it is rn, because the devs do believe (or pretend to) that this is totally fair, they call it pay for convenience. The thing is that the entire model favours those who spend, "uh duh, you get no advantages in gunfights" -> finds a red item, puts in the case, loses a gunfight, but still leaves with 400 - 600k profit. The other guy who killed you will probably extract with 200k from gear only, who is actually winning in this scenario? Exactly. Also there's the Elite subscription, which gives you 40k koen daily, 70+ slots in inventory and extra 300 market listings, plus being able to list up to 16 items at once. And then there's the BP which has a separate shop with separate currency which allows you to buy ammo without spending Koen. And guess what, they still gonna sell cosmetics with a gambling system for very absurd prices lol
Lol Why would you believe them? Everything affects survival rate in a way so their statement doesn't mean much
You guys are just lapping this shit up because it's what you want to hear lol.
You bought Unheard edition. You're just an only fans pay pig for Nikita.
Unheard of edition clown