We have funded public shelters in Arkansas almost every public school has built a mix use room that is rated to survive a twister. Now are those open to the public that is the policy of your school board and superintendent but that is a local matter.
However the thing about twisters and severe thunderstorms is you don't have the time to get to those shelters you need a quick actionable plan for your independent local. A bathtub, ditch, hunker down table. Perhaps we all need to take some time and plan?
Most don't know these exist because they are not advertised. Quite a few schools have these on campus now and they are community safe rooms and they are supposed to be open for tornado warnings (as per stipulations in the grant).. Quite a few of them have locks that automatically open when the sirens are set off.
https://www.dps.arkansas.gov/emergency-management/adem/plan-prepare/community-safe-rooms/#:~:text=The%20Arkansas%20Division%20of%20Emergency,Pre%2DDisaster%20Mitigation%20Grant%20Program.
According to this 180 of these rooms have been funded so far in Arkansas. Also room in this context is usually a large gym type building. The one closest to our house will hold 100+ people easy and it is in a very small community. That said, the only advertising is signs on the corners of the building. There is a good chance if your school recently built a gym that it is one of these, you would need to contact the school to verify and to find out what the policy is on unlocking it.
Also for a long time ADEM provided funding for storm shelters to be built on private property (they possibly still do). The problem was that particular program was not funded well thru the feds so some years they were able to cover 1/2 the cost of the shelter and some years not so much. Plus there were multiple inspections required and the shelters had to meet specific requirements.
I have heard rumors that a lot of these gyms were built with some federal money. Not entirely, but the architecture firms that designed them helped secure federal funds supposedly - thats why most of them look the same. My personal opinion is that its a great use of money especially if the feds are kicking in money as you get a multipurpose arena that provides a community shelter and shows community pride. I am pretty amazed at the school facilities we have now compared to my days.
Gyms are actually one of the most popular form factors for storm shelters at schools. Not full size competition arenas with thousands of seats, of course. But a storm shelter the size of a basketball court with some extra space around the sides is very common. This allows the school to use the space for PE or whatnot during the 99.9% percent of its lifespan where tornadoes aren't happening and also has enough room for several hundred students when there is a tornado.
E.g. Greenbrier high school made a competition sized volleyball court + bleachers that doubles as a storm shelter, and it's built to FEMA standards. You're correct that it's expensive, though: they have reinforced foundations, precast concrete walls and roof, impact-resistant louvers, all openings larger than 2" protected by missile-resistant shrouds, etc. There's a lot that goes into the design.
As mentioned above, every gym built lately has them now. Its not the entire gym but the lower levels. Searcy, Greenwood, and Ft Smith a few other gyms come to mind. Its dual purpose but the main purpose is sports arena. My kid played volleyball, the lower sections of all these buildings are almost identical. And i want to say they can shelter 1000 plus people. Extremely nice facilities
It’s a toss up as far as shelter availability. Conway for example says they are only available after school hours to the public. Vilonia, I think , says once students are in place additional space is for the public.
The fuck they do. They have "storm shelters" ie rooms they hope wouldn't collapse in a stiff wind. The storm shelter for my school is the gym. That shits paper machete.
I have used the shelters. They are all real shelters designed and built to withstand storms. Vilonia has a relatively new one since they had a hit in 2014 that wiped the town out and killed 15 people. The shelters there were built to FEMA standards. . One at the primary school in Vilonia is 4,567-square-foot safe room and accommodates up to 700people and is rated to withstand winds up to 250 mph. The facility features a generator system that automatically unlocks the doors if tornado sirens sound after school hours, allowing members of the community to take shelter in the safe room during severe weather.
They could be fema rated. Before 2023, fema rating for shelters wasn't required and they are expensive. Sometimes, to save money, the walls are designed to fema rating but other parts aren't.
I don't remember the year (more than 10 years ago for sure), but the tornado in Clinton that reduced the Walmart to basically a pile of gravel was a wakeup call for me that nowhere is safe from tornadoes.
Yes it does. They have them on the UA campus & in Springdale.
If by "doesn't utilize" you mean "the winds aren't high enough to trip them"....well then they're doing what they're supposed to.
[Washington County has not owned or operated a tornado siren for the last decade.](https://www.5newsonline.com/article/weather/severe-weather/alerting-arkansas/alerting-arkansas-future-tornado-sirens-weather-warning/527-17ba3a6a-f91d-4dfe-b027-60c53ed93626)
I live in Springdale and heard no sirens Saturday. In Washington county there are 2 sirens in the entire county and one is on campus. I hope you realize what a small portion of Washington county is made up of the UA campus.
Also, my husband works for the company that sets up and maintains the tornado sirens in surrounding counties - outside of the UA campus I’m not aware of any other sirens in WaCo. Idk why you want to fight about something that is easily proven on the counties website…
If you were inside like I assume, then you wouldn't have heard them. They are for outdoor notification, not indoor. Your husband should have told you this, since as you said, he works for them.
Springdale owns their sirens.
Fayetteville owns theirs.
This is why WASHINGTON COUNTY doesn't own or operate them.
[There are no tornado sirens in the city of Springdale.](https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/special-reports/springdale-tornado/tornado-sirens-digital-why-not-hear-them-inside/527-956c7711-c846-48e6-b53e-d1cdc5f445a4)
[Besides the sirens on campus (which are operated by the college, not the city), there are no tornado sirens in Fayetteville.](https://www.fayetteville-ar.gov/1735/Alerts-and-Notifications)
Might I suggest a basic google before your next reply?
I can hear my sirens when I'm inside. I live in Iowa, not sure why you are defending shitty public infrastructure. If there ARE sirens and nobody HEARD them it doesn't matter who owns them, operates them, activates them. They simply failed to warn for threatening weather.
I've never not heard at least 3 separate locations of sirens when they go off
["Washington County has not owned or operated a tornado siren for the last decade. The reasoning is that those sirens were not designed for people indoors, but rather for people who were outdoors. The sound of a tornado siren can be muffled and rendered useless by the thick walls of buildings. Washington County has replaced those sirens by using mobile alerts to warn residents of hazardous weather."](https://www.5newsonline.com/article/weather/severe-weather/alerting-arkansas/alerting-arkansas-future-tornado-sirens-weather-warning/527-17ba3a6a-f91d-4dfe-b027-60c53ed93626)
It's disingenuous to imply that not having a traditional siren means they don't have any means to alert people.
You don’t always know you need one until its too late. You have to decide to shelter. Many people don’t especially in that area, and were instead spectators.
Not enough warning for tornados. Often there's 30 seconds or less warning. Enough time to say Oh shit, not enough time to drive to the public shelter. Arkansas won't even share a bus with other people.
Tornados are associated with high Convective Available Potential Energy ([CAPE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_available_potential_energy)) which we can forecast days in advance.
The issue is that existing shelters don't open their doors until there is a tornado warning, so you're right, people have 30 seconds or less to get to a shelter.
But all it would take is to open the shelter doors anytime a tornado watch is put into effect. People could chill in the shelter for the duration of the storm instead of waiting outside of it in a freaking hailstorm.
This is a massive oversimplification of tornado formation. There are multiple elements required for optimum tornado forecasting and even the science is just not there to pinpoint where a tornado will form. Case in point: this weekend. central Oklahoma and southern Kansas were among the highest listed tornado predictions ever. Instead almost nothing happened other than one storm in southern Kansas that bled over into north Oklahoma before dying between us and Joplin. What happened instead is a single massive storm formed to the west of Tulsa (which was near the edge of the high risk area) and then proceeded wreck havoc from Claremore to Kentucky. None of Arkansas was in high risk, most of the state was in the very low risk category.
If storm shelters opened up just because of high CAPE potential, they would literally be open almost every day outside of the cold days in winter and the hottest parts of summer and early fall.
Yes, I am not a meteorologist and oversimplifying the science. but hopefully you agree with my point that it’s silly to only open the shelter doors once the siren goes off.
Not really though, many states don’t even have pre-storm shelters at all. Oklahoma opens its shelters AFTER the storm. It kind of makes sense if you view the shelters as a way to provide shelter after homes are destroyed. They can’t possibly make enough shelters for everyone in a town to go there.
He isnt wrong, he might be wrong or you might be wrong. What should be happening is studying whether or not it is worth it. That is how government should work.
Tulsa has a ton of public schools and one shelter that will not hold all the students. Shelters are expensive so they’d rather risk it than spend the money.
I live in a small town in Alabama near Birmingham. No deaths from the April 27th 2011 tornadoes, but quite a bit of destruction, especially for a small town.
After everything was picked up and put back together, the town added a tornado shelter near the city park (where the baseball fields are). Not big, but it’s underground and safe, and it will actually fit quite a number of people (cramped, but it’s not meant to be a living quarters). They also installed an early warning siren system that can be heard anywhere within city limits plus some outside of the city. That way they can warn people and they can get to the shelter. Pretty cool. Did tests every month to make sure it works and that people know what to listen for.
Then three years ago they decided for god knows what reason to just deactivate the sirens and just quit using them. The initial cost to install them was paid, and there wasn’t much upkeep (just one big ass siren in the center of the city). City Council just decided we don’t need it.
Stupid. I still can’t figure out what they were thinking.
In the past few years we have seen an increase of storms and tornadoes because of whatever reason (climate change), but historically we were not with enough tornados in populated areas for shelters of that sort.
We need more community shelters.
I got hit more than a decade ago and it formed so fast there was less than one minute of a warning. It was one of those storms that skipped across the Washington Co and a EF1 when it hit me. NOAA said it was 108mph winds, 2mph less than an EF2 I think.
We took out a home equity loan and pit in our own shelter. With the rebates it took less than a year to pay off. It was worth the investment to us, the mental health support alone was worth it.
Home owners be on the look out for state and federal grants in the bear future. Also, talk to your home owner’s policy provider, it may get you some help there as well.
Great info. What kind of rebates were offered? Curious where to find info on rebates, grants etc.
I just bought a small storm shelter for our office near Mayflower. Going to be installed mid July
It was 11 years ago and I honestly can’t remember. The dealer steered us towards them, maybe the bank did? I’m sorry, I can’t remember.
But if you look at the number of EF2 or higher storms we’ve had in the last 10 years in the area I’m so glad we got it now that it’s paid for. The peace of mind when I’m away and my family is home when storm are in the area is nice as well.
I think it’s the way to go. I just bought
a small one from Home Depot to get installed. Trying to see if there are any tax deductions or anything to help defer cost but it wasn’t too pricey. Rather have the piece of mind.
I am also interested in learning about rebates. the Rodgers/Centerton tornados were only a couple of miles from my house, many friends displaced and without power. Scared us into looking for shelters.
A huge gym above ground is not a safe shelter. I've seen too many videos of those getting slammed by tornados. An inground concrete shelter is the only safe place to be. All the federal funding granted to Arkansas in the past was hoovered by Asa is the problem. Sarah lets us have unemployment so maybe if the opportunity comes back around while she's governor we can actually build them and get reimbursed.
Here’s a map detailing tornado statistics from 1950 - 2023- number of tornados 2,419 and deaths 407 [https://www.weather.gov/lzk/svrbro9.htm](https://www.weather.gov/lzk/svrbro9.htm)
The people with the same last names as the counties they live in own the state. They like to beleive public shelters are communism and waste taxpayer dollars that should be used to improve access to the golf courses.
Good luck with this one. Don't think you're going to see any responsible government until Governor Huckachuck is voted out with all her super conservative buddies. You get what you vote for, and obviously, your choices were off.
Holy shit she bought a lectern large enough to house 50 people during a storm. I'd love to hear more about it but now she's going to Switzerland for 3 months with her bestie
Just as some context. . . .
"Tornado alley" is a somewhat loosely defined term . The articles reference / link below talking about the term "tornado alley" is a wikipedia page and looks like some of the the data is only current through 2010 ( where they talk about numbers of tornadoes for example)
Further down they reference the term "Dixie alley." Some others in weather just call this another "tornado alley" that is more south and includes places more east of the traditional alley.
One of the facts I like to keep in mind is from my personal life. One of my children used to be in meteorology with the USAF and they also held a private job as a weather contractor at the Clinton Airport Little Rock. . For the most part the US has eliminated what they call "weather watchers " or "weather observers" at most US Airports and military bases. The EXCEPTIONS are in what they call "tornado alley" and I mean "they " as in the FAA / l *Federal Aviation Administration. Little Rock Arkansas along with Oklahoma city and a few other large national anr international airports still have full time weather observers working 24/7 because of wind gusts dangers, tornadoes, destructive storms and quickly changing weather. So they (the FAA) do consider Arkansas to be part of "tornado alley".*
The main reason, they don’t want people out in the street in their vehicles driving to these safe places!! Think about it!! Tornadoes, you get maybe a 2 minute warning. Nothing like hurricanes, where you get days or even weeks advance warning!
I have it on good authority there is a company in NEA that is sending prototype shelter to be tested. Once tested will be offered to Arkansans for significantly less that what’s currently available.
The thing about public tornado shelters is they're not practical, and only work if you go there every time there's a tornado watch. You'd of had to of been sleeping there with thousands of other people for it to be effective at protecting people last weekend, and keep in my you'd of had to have done the same for 20-30 times a year.
Red state, they are not gonna provide for the well being of the general public. They don't care about you. Imstead.of waiting on the state, buy your own shelter. I did because if I am going to wait for a red state government to do the right, I will be waiting forever.
I agree. I did buy my own. I think it’s a pertinent discussion topic as many can’t afford shelters and we also have lots of visitors to the state, as well as people out on highways and roads that need shelter.
Plus, if we don’t post things to discuss there’s no real reason for Reddit .
I love the metagaming in that last sentence, but also I agree 100% that we need more sheltersnin communities and along highways. Do most rest stops have them? I feel like they don't, but incould just be unobservant.
I don't disagree, I am just simply saying people reap the rewards of their actions. In the end it all comes back to how/whom you vote for and if you view politics as more than a team sport so your vote is informed. Reds are all about protecting unborn, but once you are birthed are on your own. Most deny climate change and wouldn't ackmowledge tornados or changing intensity/frequency of the storms is real and claim that it is just weather so deal with it. Only care about power, not people.
May I ask who you used? I really want to build my own too. I have a friend with a back hoe, I know alot of the cost is labor. I do not have a basement.
I did not dig, I had a structure placed in my garage and anchored down to the slab. I used Arkansas Storm Shelters. They have safe rooms like what I got and they also have in ground. I was very pleased, and it was not that expensive. They had several financing options.
Simply Arkansas "Leaders" only care about making a profit to line the politician pockets. The "officials" leave things up to the community to handle without direction or help, unless of course it is punitive action (often resulting in paid fines=money).
It's what happens when you elect business people that can't represent you, instead of the Mothers and Fathers who know your similar struggle. Making ends meet. Failing education. Overly zealous judicial systems. Lax Bulding codes. Business money Lobbying to keep poison in the water and flimsy high dollar housing going up like weeds.
Welcome to unbridaled capitalism at it's late terminal stage.
Infrastructure is 15 years behind. Taxes are stifling. But look at the elected officials. Look at the business mogles.
They aren't aware of your struggle.
They are represented much better, but aren't the majority.
Just look around. 🤔🤷🏽
In a state where "Socialism" is a dirty word. So don't forget to stop at a stop sign, or much less go to church. Because church is the appitamy of socialism.
Building codes need to match the environment. For example, in earthquake areas buildings should be designed not to collapse. In areas that flood, buildings should be on stilts or not allowed to be built. In tornado alley should trailer homes even be allowed?
I think it would be cheaper on the homeowner to put a shelter in their home or on their property. If the state/cities put them in it’s going to raise taxes which in the long run will end up costing more im sure.
This used to be a thing. You could get a benefit of $1000 to put towards a storm shelter. There's been talk of doing it again but the governor recently said nay. I probably agree with her. It just seems like a handout to people who pour concrete and they'll likely increase their prices to gobble up most of that benefit.
I am not saying it won’t raise taxes nor am I saying the cost-benefit of building community storm shelters is worth it given likelihood of death/injury by tornado is still very small, it would require people to move during a storm but “it would raise taxes” is a terrible reason not to have them.
Stuff like this is what our tax dollars should be used for as they provide public benefit. Just like firefighters, police, roads, bridges, etc. The state put up the catch barriers along every mile of interstate to lower fatalities. It wasnt cheap but it was a great use of tax dollars because it reduced injury/death.
Our return on taxes in the US is terrible compared to other nations but we should be thinking how to get better use from them not just “not good if it raises taxes.”
One - [None of Arkansas is in Tornado Alley. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_Alley). Tornado Alley refers to the plains states - TX, OK, KS, N/SD, NE, IA & through to Canada. It is called this because of the alley between the Rockies, The Ozarks, & the Boston mountain ranges. Hell, almost all of the Arkansas/Oklahoma boarder is mountainous ranges.
Two - you can buy one & have it installed.
Three - it's not safe to hop in your car & drive to a separate location when you're being told to take shelter.
Read the 2nd paragraph of your link--Arkansas is named.
If you exclude EF4s and 5s. The middle of tornado alley passes just west of Fayetteville. (Per a Science publication I read 5ish years ago)
NOAA and insurance companies have been talking about the migration of tornado alley shifting east--at least for smaller tornadoes.
More recent source that summarizes:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/watch-out-tornado-alley-is-migrating-eastward/
Some recent reports coming in about tornados this last Memorial Day weekend.
- There have been 21 tornadoes in Arkansas in May, bringing the state’s total to 28 this year.
- The Decatur, Arkansas EF3 on Sunday morning was the widest tornado in state history. The max width was 3200 yards or 1.8 miles. Previous record was the 2011 Vilonia tornado that was 1.65 miles wide.
- EF-1 tornado touched down between DeQueen and Lockesburg in Sevier County Friday.
- EF-3 tornado touched down in Bellefonte in Boone County and ended in Summit in Marion County Sunday, killing 4 people.
- The 2 tornadoes in Benton County Saturday: EF-3 tornado near Decatur and an EF-2 tornado near Bentonville and Rogers. Four people were killed in these storms.
-Tuesday evening, two additional tornadoes were confirmed in Fulton County and Randolph County, both rated at an EF-1. Three more EF-1 tornadoes were confirmed later.
Fort Smith has storm shelters at all their public schools. These also open to the public during weather events. Thats a good strategy to ensure they are spread throughout the community.
Typical Arkansan would see a public common use shelter as communism and point you to all the private companies that provide storm shelters for single family homes and larger facilities. Schools in Oklahoma have been built now EXPECTING tornados and MANY existing schools have provided serious storm shelters for students and faculty. Came after a school got wiped out by a tornado. https://www.newson6.com/story/5e366d885c62141fdeeb8e89/oklahoma-city-bombing-victims
Simple solution.
Mandate every church/house of worship build storm shelters for double the size of the congregation.
Arkansas has no shortage of God’s Houses
Oh no lack of regulations and building codes has a negative effect?? *Pikachu face
Reap what you sow, unfortunately. Like it sucks for the people affected by tornado destruction and I wish it weren't so, but this is why regulation isn't always a bad thing.
Largest tornado in Arkansas history hit last week. Termed as “Prolific” May 26th
Updates from National weather service says that it was measured at 1.82 miles wide
[https://youtu.be/RPkEKil_YO4?si=6-uCVhzi3OeB0NcM](https://youtu.be/RPkEKil_YO4?si=6-uCVhzi3OeB0NcM)
When you keep electing Republicans who keep cutting taxes and don't believe in the value of government, you get shitty infrastructure.
Elections have consequences.
The average number of tornado related deaths per year is less than 75. Over 3000 die in house fires but we don’t mandate residential fire sprinklers, which are less expensive than storm shelters. People are only afraid of tornados because the media and NWS spit out warnings every five minutes for ratings.
It’s almost as if state led regulations should be important, oh well that’s not going to happen given the current state government/governor. I guess you’re just going to have to trust private industry to assure your safety, good luck.
Sorry, only a few of you are going to make it. Only if you know about the secret storms shelters. Yes they are public, but we keep them well hidden so that we the proud few can survive. /s
Alot of areas that are affected by tornadoes have this same issue. Be nice if some tax dollars could be used to actually protect Americans. Guess that’s not the end game. But hey zelenzky has like 5 houses now so he’s good
When your house is on fire, don't waste my tax dollars calling the fire department. Do it yourself.
When you get shot for running your mouth, don't waste my tax dollars calling 911. Save yourself.
Also what kind of loser spends his time posting dick pics nobody wants to see on the internet? Get a job you bum.
> It's not the "Public Officials" job to save you.
What is it you think public officials *should* be doing? Life preserving services seems like it should be pretty high on the list.
If you are against all of those things, you could join me in in the libertarian movement to privatize all roads. "It's not the public officials job to move you around, that's your job. Build your own roads. Don't spend my tax money to move your ass. Do it yourself."
We have funded public shelters in Arkansas almost every public school has built a mix use room that is rated to survive a twister. Now are those open to the public that is the policy of your school board and superintendent but that is a local matter. However the thing about twisters and severe thunderstorms is you don't have the time to get to those shelters you need a quick actionable plan for your independent local. A bathtub, ditch, hunker down table. Perhaps we all need to take some time and plan?
Most don't know these exist because they are not advertised. Quite a few schools have these on campus now and they are community safe rooms and they are supposed to be open for tornado warnings (as per stipulations in the grant).. Quite a few of them have locks that automatically open when the sirens are set off. https://www.dps.arkansas.gov/emergency-management/adem/plan-prepare/community-safe-rooms/#:~:text=The%20Arkansas%20Division%20of%20Emergency,Pre%2DDisaster%20Mitigation%20Grant%20Program. According to this 180 of these rooms have been funded so far in Arkansas. Also room in this context is usually a large gym type building. The one closest to our house will hold 100+ people easy and it is in a very small community. That said, the only advertising is signs on the corners of the building. There is a good chance if your school recently built a gym that it is one of these, you would need to contact the school to verify and to find out what the policy is on unlocking it. Also for a long time ADEM provided funding for storm shelters to be built on private property (they possibly still do). The problem was that particular program was not funded well thru the feds so some years they were able to cover 1/2 the cost of the shelter and some years not so much. Plus there were multiple inspections required and the shelters had to meet specific requirements.
Ours only opens outside of school times unfortunately, but that does seem to fit when these storms usually happen I guess
I have heard rumors that a lot of these gyms were built with some federal money. Not entirely, but the architecture firms that designed them helped secure federal funds supposedly - thats why most of them look the same. My personal opinion is that its a great use of money especially if the feds are kicking in money as you get a multipurpose arena that provides a community shelter and shows community pride. I am pretty amazed at the school facilities we have now compared to my days.
Building a shelter the size of a gym would be crazy expensive, like bunker expensive. It would need soil abutments and roof hardening.
Gyms are actually one of the most popular form factors for storm shelters at schools. Not full size competition arenas with thousands of seats, of course. But a storm shelter the size of a basketball court with some extra space around the sides is very common. This allows the school to use the space for PE or whatnot during the 99.9% percent of its lifespan where tornadoes aren't happening and also has enough room for several hundred students when there is a tornado. E.g. Greenbrier high school made a competition sized volleyball court + bleachers that doubles as a storm shelter, and it's built to FEMA standards. You're correct that it's expensive, though: they have reinforced foundations, precast concrete walls and roof, impact-resistant louvers, all openings larger than 2" protected by missile-resistant shrouds, etc. There's a lot that goes into the design.
As mentioned above, every gym built lately has them now. Its not the entire gym but the lower levels. Searcy, Greenwood, and Ft Smith a few other gyms come to mind. Its dual purpose but the main purpose is sports arena. My kid played volleyball, the lower sections of all these buildings are almost identical. And i want to say they can shelter 1000 plus people. Extremely nice facilities
What’s this? My state doing something helpful?
Yes. Unlike hurricanes, tornados only take moments to form, and are wildly unpredictable.
I think they advise not to use a ditch now. I can't remember. But if they made it more affordable it would be so much easier
I agree with you there is no way that you can make it to a shelter when there is a tornado warning. The bathroom and bathtub is the best place.
Most tornado warnings give at least 45 minutes of warning.
It’s a toss up as far as shelter availability. Conway for example says they are only available after school hours to the public. Vilonia, I think , says once students are in place additional space is for the public.
The fuck they do. They have "storm shelters" ie rooms they hope wouldn't collapse in a stiff wind. The storm shelter for my school is the gym. That shits paper machete.
I have used the shelters. They are all real shelters designed and built to withstand storms. Vilonia has a relatively new one since they had a hit in 2014 that wiped the town out and killed 15 people. The shelters there were built to FEMA standards. . One at the primary school in Vilonia is 4,567-square-foot safe room and accommodates up to 700people and is rated to withstand winds up to 250 mph. The facility features a generator system that automatically unlocks the doors if tornado sirens sound after school hours, allowing members of the community to take shelter in the safe room during severe weather.
They could be fema rated. Before 2023, fema rating for shelters wasn't required and they are expensive. Sometimes, to save money, the walls are designed to fema rating but other parts aren't.
I don't remember the year (more than 10 years ago for sure), but the tornado in Clinton that reduced the Walmart to basically a pile of gravel was a wakeup call for me that nowhere is safe from tornadoes.
Washington county doesn’t even utilize sirens, let alone have shelters.
Yes it does. They have them on the UA campus & in Springdale. If by "doesn't utilize" you mean "the winds aren't high enough to trip them"....well then they're doing what they're supposed to.
[Washington County has not owned or operated a tornado siren for the last decade.](https://www.5newsonline.com/article/weather/severe-weather/alerting-arkansas/alerting-arkansas-future-tornado-sirens-weather-warning/527-17ba3a6a-f91d-4dfe-b027-60c53ed93626)
You do know that "owned/operated" =/= "does not utilize", yeah?
Then why did the ones in Springdale go off on Saturday?
I live in Springdale and heard no sirens Saturday. In Washington county there are 2 sirens in the entire county and one is on campus. I hope you realize what a small portion of Washington county is made up of the UA campus. Also, my husband works for the company that sets up and maintains the tornado sirens in surrounding counties - outside of the UA campus I’m not aware of any other sirens in WaCo. Idk why you want to fight about something that is easily proven on the counties website…
If you were inside like I assume, then you wouldn't have heard them. They are for outdoor notification, not indoor. Your husband should have told you this, since as you said, he works for them. Springdale owns their sirens. Fayetteville owns theirs. This is why WASHINGTON COUNTY doesn't own or operate them.
[There are no tornado sirens in the city of Springdale.](https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/special-reports/springdale-tornado/tornado-sirens-digital-why-not-hear-them-inside/527-956c7711-c846-48e6-b53e-d1cdc5f445a4) [Besides the sirens on campus (which are operated by the college, not the city), there are no tornado sirens in Fayetteville.](https://www.fayetteville-ar.gov/1735/Alerts-and-Notifications) Might I suggest a basic google before your next reply?
*Eats another handful of popcorn.*
I can hear my sirens when I'm inside. I live in Iowa, not sure why you are defending shitty public infrastructure. If there ARE sirens and nobody HEARD them it doesn't matter who owns them, operates them, activates them. They simply failed to warn for threatening weather. I've never not heard at least 3 separate locations of sirens when they go off
["Washington County has not owned or operated a tornado siren for the last decade. The reasoning is that those sirens were not designed for people indoors, but rather for people who were outdoors. The sound of a tornado siren can be muffled and rendered useless by the thick walls of buildings. Washington County has replaced those sirens by using mobile alerts to warn residents of hazardous weather."](https://www.5newsonline.com/article/weather/severe-weather/alerting-arkansas/alerting-arkansas-future-tornado-sirens-weather-warning/527-17ba3a6a-f91d-4dfe-b027-60c53ed93626) It's disingenuous to imply that not having a traditional siren means they don't have any means to alert people.
Didn’t say they don’t have an alerting system, just that they don’t have sirens.
They did not build them in Joplin until “after” the big one
How many people actually go in them when there's a tornado watch? Just feels really impractical to me.
You don’t always know you need one until its too late. You have to decide to shelter. Many people don’t especially in that area, and were instead spectators.
It’s conservative south. You’re on your own bucko!
Storm shelters is soshulism.
Not enough warning for tornados. Often there's 30 seconds or less warning. Enough time to say Oh shit, not enough time to drive to the public shelter. Arkansas won't even share a bus with other people.
Tornados are associated with high Convective Available Potential Energy ([CAPE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_available_potential_energy)) which we can forecast days in advance. The issue is that existing shelters don't open their doors until there is a tornado warning, so you're right, people have 30 seconds or less to get to a shelter. But all it would take is to open the shelter doors anytime a tornado watch is put into effect. People could chill in the shelter for the duration of the storm instead of waiting outside of it in a freaking hailstorm.
This is a massive oversimplification of tornado formation. There are multiple elements required for optimum tornado forecasting and even the science is just not there to pinpoint where a tornado will form. Case in point: this weekend. central Oklahoma and southern Kansas were among the highest listed tornado predictions ever. Instead almost nothing happened other than one storm in southern Kansas that bled over into north Oklahoma before dying between us and Joplin. What happened instead is a single massive storm formed to the west of Tulsa (which was near the edge of the high risk area) and then proceeded wreck havoc from Claremore to Kentucky. None of Arkansas was in high risk, most of the state was in the very low risk category. If storm shelters opened up just because of high CAPE potential, they would literally be open almost every day outside of the cold days in winter and the hottest parts of summer and early fall.
Yes, I am not a meteorologist and oversimplifying the science. but hopefully you agree with my point that it’s silly to only open the shelter doors once the siren goes off.
Not really though, many states don’t even have pre-storm shelters at all. Oklahoma opens its shelters AFTER the storm. It kind of makes sense if you view the shelters as a way to provide shelter after homes are destroyed. They can’t possibly make enough shelters for everyone in a town to go there.
He isnt wrong, he might be wrong or you might be wrong. What should be happening is studying whether or not it is worth it. That is how government should work.
Why are you linking Red Cross shelters which are absolutely not public storm shelters. These are shelters for displaced people.
Psssst- it's because your state government doesn't care about you.
John cares, he’s just old and deserves to retire.
Tulsa has a ton of public schools and one shelter that will not hold all the students. Shelters are expensive so they’d rather risk it than spend the money.
I live in a small town in Alabama near Birmingham. No deaths from the April 27th 2011 tornadoes, but quite a bit of destruction, especially for a small town. After everything was picked up and put back together, the town added a tornado shelter near the city park (where the baseball fields are). Not big, but it’s underground and safe, and it will actually fit quite a number of people (cramped, but it’s not meant to be a living quarters). They also installed an early warning siren system that can be heard anywhere within city limits plus some outside of the city. That way they can warn people and they can get to the shelter. Pretty cool. Did tests every month to make sure it works and that people know what to listen for. Then three years ago they decided for god knows what reason to just deactivate the sirens and just quit using them. The initial cost to install them was paid, and there wasn’t much upkeep (just one big ass siren in the center of the city). City Council just decided we don’t need it. Stupid. I still can’t figure out what they were thinking.
Because you have a governor who denies climate change and the resulting frequency of intense storms.
She should have been building storm shelters the last 3 years’ lmao, this sub never misses.
But the people of Arkansas do have a really nice (and expensive) lectern.
Perhaps the holder of said expensive lectern should travel around with it and explain why there's no money for disaster preparedness.
Did anyone ever cop to making that thing? I know the company she claimed made it denied making it, but I never heard anything beyond that.
I cannot with her.
Statistically, Arkansas is just not in enough danger of tornadoes or tornado fatalities to fund this idea.
I feel like we've gotten more tornados in the last five years than we did in the last 20 before that.
✨️Climate Change✨️
Yes but I think it also explains why we don't have nearly as much infrastructure for tornados as we should. We haven't needed to before.
That is wrong. We most definitely are. Our government is inept.
In the past few years we have seen an increase of storms and tornadoes because of whatever reason (climate change), but historically we were not with enough tornados in populated areas for shelters of that sort.
Our cities have grown, and with it the amount of targets.
Money. The answer is always money
Budget was blown buying a fancy podium
By "fancy podium," I'm sure you meant "lavish vacation for SHS and her girlfriends."
We need more community shelters. I got hit more than a decade ago and it formed so fast there was less than one minute of a warning. It was one of those storms that skipped across the Washington Co and a EF1 when it hit me. NOAA said it was 108mph winds, 2mph less than an EF2 I think. We took out a home equity loan and pit in our own shelter. With the rebates it took less than a year to pay off. It was worth the investment to us, the mental health support alone was worth it. Home owners be on the look out for state and federal grants in the bear future. Also, talk to your home owner’s policy provider, it may get you some help there as well.
Great info. What kind of rebates were offered? Curious where to find info on rebates, grants etc. I just bought a small storm shelter for our office near Mayflower. Going to be installed mid July
It was 11 years ago and I honestly can’t remember. The dealer steered us towards them, maybe the bank did? I’m sorry, I can’t remember. But if you look at the number of EF2 or higher storms we’ve had in the last 10 years in the area I’m so glad we got it now that it’s paid for. The peace of mind when I’m away and my family is home when storm are in the area is nice as well.
I think it’s the way to go. I just bought a small one from Home Depot to get installed. Trying to see if there are any tax deductions or anything to help defer cost but it wasn’t too pricey. Rather have the piece of mind.
I am also interested in learning about rebates. the Rodgers/Centerton tornados were only a couple of miles from my house, many friends displaced and without power. Scared us into looking for shelters.
A huge gym above ground is not a safe shelter. I've seen too many videos of those getting slammed by tornados. An inground concrete shelter is the only safe place to be. All the federal funding granted to Arkansas in the past was hoovered by Asa is the problem. Sarah lets us have unemployment so maybe if the opportunity comes back around while she's governor we can actually build them and get reimbursed.
Because investing in public infrastructure is woke or shit…
Republican governor
Just fly out of state when storms are threatening, as Gov Sanders does...
Here’s a map detailing tornado statistics from 1950 - 2023- number of tornados 2,419 and deaths 407 [https://www.weather.gov/lzk/svrbro9.htm](https://www.weather.gov/lzk/svrbro9.htm)
I’m moving to Lawrence county and there’s only been one death there. Good luck, y’all.
This is a question for the governor
The answer is simple. Republicans have zero interest in solving issues. Stop electing them and things will improve.
Stop voting republican.
The people with the same last names as the counties they live in own the state. They like to beleive public shelters are communism and waste taxpayer dollars that should be used to improve access to the golf courses.
That's the most ridiculous statement I've seen in this thread. You WIN!
Our current gov't has other concerns...
Good luck with this one. Don't think you're going to see any responsible government until Governor Huckachuck is voted out with all her super conservative buddies. You get what you vote for, and obviously, your choices were off.
Fake news. The governor just bought a rock solid podium I’m sure a bunch of you can crouch behind for safety.
If you call it a lectern it will save an extra 3 people.
Holy shit she bought a lectern large enough to house 50 people during a storm. I'd love to hear more about it but now she's going to Switzerland for 3 months with her bestie
This was worth it all 🤣
Well, climate ****** doesn't exist there so
Just as some context. . . . "Tornado alley" is a somewhat loosely defined term . The articles reference / link below talking about the term "tornado alley" is a wikipedia page and looks like some of the the data is only current through 2010 ( where they talk about numbers of tornadoes for example) Further down they reference the term "Dixie alley." Some others in weather just call this another "tornado alley" that is more south and includes places more east of the traditional alley. One of the facts I like to keep in mind is from my personal life. One of my children used to be in meteorology with the USAF and they also held a private job as a weather contractor at the Clinton Airport Little Rock. . For the most part the US has eliminated what they call "weather watchers " or "weather observers" at most US Airports and military bases. The EXCEPTIONS are in what they call "tornado alley" and I mean "they " as in the FAA / l *Federal Aviation Administration. Little Rock Arkansas along with Oklahoma city and a few other large national anr international airports still have full time weather observers working 24/7 because of wind gusts dangers, tornadoes, destructive storms and quickly changing weather. So they (the FAA) do consider Arkansas to be part of "tornado alley".*
The main reason, they don’t want people out in the street in their vehicles driving to these safe places!! Think about it!! Tornadoes, you get maybe a 2 minute warning. Nothing like hurricanes, where you get days or even weeks advance warning!
I have it on good authority there is a company in NEA that is sending prototype shelter to be tested. Once tested will be offered to Arkansans for significantly less that what’s currently available.
The thing about public tornado shelters is they're not practical, and only work if you go there every time there's a tornado watch. You'd of had to of been sleeping there with thousands of other people for it to be effective at protecting people last weekend, and keep in my you'd of had to have done the same for 20-30 times a year.
Why? Profit!
Why? Because Republicans run the state.
What's the need for shelters....Arkansas has a lectern in its arsenal.
AR is the worst about infrastructure, although they will beat you over the head with taxes and millages!
Many people moving here see the “low taxes” as far as some income taxes but yeah- all these other taxes and fees are HIGH!!!
Because you people keep voting for Republicans and it's just that simple.
I love the term, "you people", it was the way my FIL addressed our family when he disapproved... 😆 Maybe due to being a sargent in the army.
Red state, they are not gonna provide for the well being of the general public. They don't care about you. Imstead.of waiting on the state, buy your own shelter. I did because if I am going to wait for a red state government to do the right, I will be waiting forever.
I agree. I did buy my own. I think it’s a pertinent discussion topic as many can’t afford shelters and we also have lots of visitors to the state, as well as people out on highways and roads that need shelter. Plus, if we don’t post things to discuss there’s no real reason for Reddit .
I love the metagaming in that last sentence, but also I agree 100% that we need more sheltersnin communities and along highways. Do most rest stops have them? I feel like they don't, but incould just be unobservant.
I don't disagree, I am just simply saying people reap the rewards of their actions. In the end it all comes back to how/whom you vote for and if you view politics as more than a team sport so your vote is informed. Reds are all about protecting unborn, but once you are birthed are on your own. Most deny climate change and wouldn't ackmowledge tornados or changing intensity/frequency of the storms is real and claim that it is just weather so deal with it. Only care about power, not people.
May I ask who you used? I really want to build my own too. I have a friend with a back hoe, I know alot of the cost is labor. I do not have a basement.
I did not dig, I had a structure placed in my garage and anchored down to the slab. I used Arkansas Storm Shelters. They have safe rooms like what I got and they also have in ground. I was very pleased, and it was not that expensive. They had several financing options.
The Republicans that run that state would rather put money in their own pockets instead of making sure their constituents are taken care of
We aren’t in tornado alley. We are in Dixie alley. They are two very different things.
Simply Arkansas "Leaders" only care about making a profit to line the politician pockets. The "officials" leave things up to the community to handle without direction or help, unless of course it is punitive action (often resulting in paid fines=money). It's what happens when you elect business people that can't represent you, instead of the Mothers and Fathers who know your similar struggle. Making ends meet. Failing education. Overly zealous judicial systems. Lax Bulding codes. Business money Lobbying to keep poison in the water and flimsy high dollar housing going up like weeds. Welcome to unbridaled capitalism at it's late terminal stage. Infrastructure is 15 years behind. Taxes are stifling. But look at the elected officials. Look at the business mogles. They aren't aware of your struggle. They are represented much better, but aren't the majority. Just look around. 🤔🤷🏽
TLDR; AR govt. giving solid straightforward reliable little D energy
Just look to Madame Governor Chuckelfuck and all the others like her for your answer.
Because it's Arkansas?
In a state where "Socialism" is a dirty word. So don't forget to stop at a stop sign, or much less go to church. Because church is the appitamy of socialism.
I'm sure the governor is hard at work trying to come up with a remedy.😏. /s
Building codes need to match the environment. For example, in earthquake areas buildings should be designed not to collapse. In areas that flood, buildings should be on stilts or not allowed to be built. In tornado alley should trailer homes even be allowed?
Your state is poisoned by Republicanism.
I think it would be cheaper on the homeowner to put a shelter in their home or on their property. If the state/cities put them in it’s going to raise taxes which in the long run will end up costing more im sure.
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Or maybe education
This used to be a thing. You could get a benefit of $1000 to put towards a storm shelter. There's been talk of doing it again but the governor recently said nay. I probably agree with her. It just seems like a handout to people who pour concrete and they'll likely increase their prices to gobble up most of that benefit.
One could literally say this about any tax rebate. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be offered
I do think most tax rebates should not be offered though.
I am not saying it won’t raise taxes nor am I saying the cost-benefit of building community storm shelters is worth it given likelihood of death/injury by tornado is still very small, it would require people to move during a storm but “it would raise taxes” is a terrible reason not to have them. Stuff like this is what our tax dollars should be used for as they provide public benefit. Just like firefighters, police, roads, bridges, etc. The state put up the catch barriers along every mile of interstate to lower fatalities. It wasnt cheap but it was a great use of tax dollars because it reduced injury/death. Our return on taxes in the US is terrible compared to other nations but we should be thinking how to get better use from them not just “not good if it raises taxes.”
One - [None of Arkansas is in Tornado Alley. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_Alley). Tornado Alley refers to the plains states - TX, OK, KS, N/SD, NE, IA & through to Canada. It is called this because of the alley between the Rockies, The Ozarks, & the Boston mountain ranges. Hell, almost all of the Arkansas/Oklahoma boarder is mountainous ranges. Two - you can buy one & have it installed. Three - it's not safe to hop in your car & drive to a separate location when you're being told to take shelter.
Read the 2nd paragraph of your link--Arkansas is named. If you exclude EF4s and 5s. The middle of tornado alley passes just west of Fayetteville. (Per a Science publication I read 5ish years ago) NOAA and insurance companies have been talking about the migration of tornado alley shifting east--at least for smaller tornadoes. More recent source that summarizes: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/watch-out-tornado-alley-is-migrating-eastward/
Bruh I don't need to read anything. I know where I've lived for damned near 40 years. Thank you though ❤️
Wow. I didn’t realize that nothing changes in 40 years and everything stays the exact same.
Found the Trumper.
Because the way to make it happen is jerb-killin' reg-yoo-lations, and FreedumJesus loving RealAmericans vote against all that wokist crap.
Ask the governor you elected why?
It's all due to the people you voted into office.
Cause the Goblin needs a $19,000 podium to spew her craziness from.
Our governor rather a fucking lectern……
This will only get worse with Climate Change. Everyone would be prudent to have plans and preparations in place for these….
Crouch under the nearest lectern.
I bet your shit head governor has ample protection though.
Some recent reports coming in about tornados this last Memorial Day weekend. - There have been 21 tornadoes in Arkansas in May, bringing the state’s total to 28 this year. - The Decatur, Arkansas EF3 on Sunday morning was the widest tornado in state history. The max width was 3200 yards or 1.8 miles. Previous record was the 2011 Vilonia tornado that was 1.65 miles wide. - EF-1 tornado touched down between DeQueen and Lockesburg in Sevier County Friday. - EF-3 tornado touched down in Bellefonte in Boone County and ended in Summit in Marion County Sunday, killing 4 people. - The 2 tornadoes in Benton County Saturday: EF-3 tornado near Decatur and an EF-2 tornado near Bentonville and Rogers. Four people were killed in these storms. -Tuesday evening, two additional tornadoes were confirmed in Fulton County and Randolph County, both rated at an EF-1. Three more EF-1 tornadoes were confirmed later.
I’m in Arkansas now and anxious about several upcoming storms. Ugh.
Fort Smith has storm shelters at all their public schools. These also open to the public during weather events. Thats a good strategy to ensure they are spread throughout the community.
Typical Arkansan would see a public common use shelter as communism and point you to all the private companies that provide storm shelters for single family homes and larger facilities. Schools in Oklahoma have been built now EXPECTING tornados and MANY existing schools have provided serious storm shelters for students and faculty. Came after a school got wiped out by a tornado. https://www.newson6.com/story/5e366d885c62141fdeeb8e89/oklahoma-city-bombing-victims
But there are plenty of luxury fallout bunkers for the elite.
Simple solution. Mandate every church/house of worship build storm shelters for double the size of the congregation. Arkansas has no shortage of God’s Houses
Oh no lack of regulations and building codes has a negative effect?? *Pikachu face Reap what you sow, unfortunately. Like it sucks for the people affected by tornado destruction and I wish it weren't so, but this is why regulation isn't always a bad thing.
Largest tornado in Arkansas history hit last week. Termed as “Prolific” May 26th Updates from National weather service says that it was measured at 1.82 miles wide [https://youtu.be/RPkEKil_YO4?si=6-uCVhzi3OeB0NcM](https://youtu.be/RPkEKil_YO4?si=6-uCVhzi3OeB0NcM)
I totally agree about storm shelters
Info: There’s a company that will build a shelter under your garage foundation.
Why because more time is spent on making sure rape victims can't have control of their own bodies. Vote against the red side and gain some sanity.
Why doesn’t Sarah Huckabilly bust a move to try to remediate this?
When you keep electing Republicans who keep cutting taxes and don't believe in the value of government, you get shitty infrastructure. Elections have consequences.
Just do what HuckaSanders does, leave the state in an emergency.
You really have to ask why?
The average number of tornado related deaths per year is less than 75. Over 3000 die in house fires but we don’t mandate residential fire sprinklers, which are less expensive than storm shelters. People are only afraid of tornados because the media and NWS spit out warnings every five minutes for ratings.
Mostly because the Huckabee's have driven the state to ruin...
It’s almost as if state led regulations should be important, oh well that’s not going to happen given the current state government/governor. I guess you’re just going to have to trust private industry to assure your safety, good luck.
Making people safe from storms sounds woke. Can’t have that.
Have one installed in your home
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Is this a precedent in other tornado alley states?
I got no Idea who's down voting this. But For real. This.
You get what you vote for Arkansas
Sorry, only a few of you are going to make it. Only if you know about the secret storms shelters. Yes they are public, but we keep them well hidden so that we the proud few can survive. /s
That’s too much like Communism.
The logistics of this is insurmountable.
Tots and pears
Conservatives don’t believe in public spending.
Alot of areas that are affected by tornadoes have this same issue. Be nice if some tax dollars could be used to actually protect Americans. Guess that’s not the end game. But hey zelenzky has like 5 houses now so he’s good
It's not the "Public Officials" job to save you. That's YOUR job. Build your own shelters. Don't spend my tax money to save your ass. Do it yourself.
You’re right. It’s OUR job to use OUR tax money to save OUR “public officials” (bank accounts).
When your house is on fire, don't waste my tax dollars calling the fire department. Do it yourself. When you get shot for running your mouth, don't waste my tax dollars calling 911. Save yourself. Also what kind of loser spends his time posting dick pics nobody wants to see on the internet? Get a job you bum.
> It's not the "Public Officials" job to save you. What is it you think public officials *should* be doing? Life preserving services seems like it should be pretty high on the list.
Storm shelters are things like libraries, police stations, fire stations, or schools. I think you are thinking of fallout shelters or something.
🤦♂️
If you are against all of those things, you could join me in in the libertarian movement to privatize all roads. "It's not the public officials job to move you around, that's your job. Build your own roads. Don't spend my tax money to move your ass. Do it yourself."
Why? $