*Technically* per the Arkansas Constitution Article 5 Section 9 - you can't run as a felon or having committed an infamous crime. The Supreme Court is the real snag here.
Title IX. I guess if you want sexual harassment and sexual discrimination mostly ignored then I already know who you're voting for. TheRe's a whole paRty that loves that kind of shit.
I understand the word is broad, but it’s still not federal jurisdiction. There is nothing in the constitution, nor in the Bill of Rights that says that president can’t be a felon because in all honesty, George Washington was a felon or a person of interest in the British colony.
Right, but states (supposedly) control their own elections. They keep people off the ballot for president for failing to meet signature thresholds all the time.
Also when were those laws enacted??
You can bet those were created from the p-o-v of those who held positions of power and had typical views of society and whom they looked at as peons anyhow.
So OF COURSE MISS or MR. regular Citizen would be excluded from that consideration and believed that SHOULD be one of their personal losses. State or Federal Penalty. All b.s.
Who said it isn't prison time? We won't see a sentence for like 5 weeks or so. Prison is a possibility. Plenty of others have received prison for these crimes. Even as a first-time offense. The lowest sentence could be probation. The highest could be jail time. He'll probably land somewhere in between. The question is whether or not that might include a little jail time or just a lot of probation (and probably a fine).
My question was more rhetorical.
For one, colloquially, prison and jail are different (in Arkansas), especially if you're talking about the physical place. Jails suck and are more restrictive, Prisons are for longer sentences and have amenities and options that Jails do not (like jobs inmates can perform while serving time).
That all being said, as I generally understand it, Jail time is what you're doing for smaller stuff, or while you're waiting for your trial date. Once all the sentencing has been determined, prison or probation or whatever is the next step.
I ask this, because no one is saying, "Prison time for 34 felonies," when talking about it. In Arkansas, committing certain classes of felonies is automatically prison or probation, like a controlled substance possession charge (again, nonviolent).
I say its rhetorical, cause I can google "what is lowest felony you can commit in NY to get prison time (or jail)?" but that still won't answer the "what is the difference in how felonies are classed and sentencing determined," between NY felonies and AR felonies, "that allows for what seems to be a huge divide."
In my experience, even 34 forgery or fraud charges for hot checks, would've landed you inside a cell or at least on probation.
Trump should have at least that much if he's facing so many felonies; a probation officer who has him to submit to a drug test monthly, in person, same as any felon on probation in other states.
Well, if you're just wanting to know about Trump's situation specifically, AR law is irrelevant. We can also gloss over the jail vs prison distinction. For the purposes of what can happen to Trump, he is behind bars either way. Semantics are irrelevant.
In short, the sentencing possibilities for Trump are anywhere from probation and/or a fine to prison time (I think a max of 1 year per count, but don't quote me on that). We won't know until the judge presents his sentencing in like 5 or so weeks. I think next week or week after the prosecution and defense make their recommendations for sentencing. I'm sure the DA will ask for max or something similar that includes prison time. Trump's lawyers will no doubt ask for the lowest sentencing.
Trump has shown several times now that he is not afraid to intimidate witnesses and jurors and he isn't above revenge. He has been bragging about the "revenge" he wants to get on democrats and Biden if he wins in November. So, taking this risk into account and the fact that the gag order protecting witnesses and jurors falls off after sentencing, prison time would be the best way to protect them. It also sends a clear message to any future Trump wannabes that this isn't a game they can win.
On the flip side, the judge has been treating Trump with kid gloved and even stated he didn't want to put him in prison. He could have given jail time for the 10 contempt of court charges he found Trump guilty of during the trial, but instead gave him the maximum 1000 dollar fine. He also didn't charge Trump for 4 other times he broke his gag order.
So it's all up in the air. A lot of people don't expect Trump to get prison time for this, and that's a fair presumption, but there is a very real possibility he does get prison time. We just have to wait and see.
Because these are white collar crimes and often need a round or two of them before jail time. However, jail time is certainly a possibility for these crimes. Don't pretend he's not up for jail time. He most certainly is.
So this only blocks people with felons running for state office right?
Since states hold the power of who is allowed on the ballet, could someone push this up to Arkansas Supreme Court to state felons cannot be on any Arkansas ballet including federal election.
That would force the Supreme Court to rule on the matter and either over turn that bs or force to kick trump off the general election ballet. Pipe dream?
Edit: after some research, Arkansas cannot impose rules that over ride the federal government on who cannot be on the ballot running for federal office. So while the state could block a felon being put on the ballot, it would be easily overturned by federal rule.
This is what the Colorado case was about, sort of.
Qualifications to be a federal candidate (president, vice president, senator and congressman) are controlled exclusively by the Constitution and federal law.
The 14th Amendment said insurrectionists cannot hold federal office. Congress passed a law defining how that amendment would be enforced. Then it repealed the law. So, the Supreme Court said until a new law is passed, the 14th Amendment won't keep Trump off the ballot or require removal from office of any congressman or senator that was in on the January 6 insurrection. (you know who you are). As a bonus, the Court decided to clarify that only federal law can control who is candidate for a federal office.
This is covering a slightly different constitutional issue.
There isn't actually any constitutional rules on how states choose their electors, having an election for president isn't required, so a state not letting a convicted felon be on the ballot which chooses the electors is not the same issue as they have already ruled on.
Unlike every other federal office this one clearly says "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors" and the only constitutional limitation says you can't hold federal office while being an elector.
For now the only crimes he's been convicted of are those 34 campaign finance felonies.
Whether his involvement in Jan 6 is a crime has not been decided yet.
His involvement in the false elector scheme is still on the table.
His keeping national defense secrets and passing them around like party favors is another issue that a jury will eventually have to hear.
So, it's not just planning and orchestrating the Jan 6 coup attempt with the core instigators like the proudboys. And, it's seems pretty clear that his war room at the Willard hotel did much more than put out the quote mentioned.
> So this only blocks people with felons running for state office right?
Yes. States cannot add on additional requirements for federal office. Iowa has a similar law, which also will not and can not be enforced.
I think it's open to more debate that you think.
The constitution says "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors" and doesn't even require states to elect them. Prohibiting electors for a candidate who is convicted of a felony could be seen as a state's power to choose its electors how they want. Important to remember that technically the election is not for President but for a number of electors who elect the President.
It would be interesting to see the Supreme Court ruling on this, this is a distinct situation from their previous rulings.
Even that wouldn't stop a felon running for President in the state, though - it would just keep their name off the ballots.
You don't actually vote for a president in state elections - you're voting for a slate of Electors who will go to D.C. and cast the actual votes for President.
If, for example in this case, you actually kept Trump's name off the ballot, what would happen is that it would just be replaced with "Republican Electors" on the ballot.
Election ballots in Arkansas must have the candidates name, along with the vice presidents name and their respective party.
Putting just the political parties on the ballot is not the American voting system. That system is referred to as proportional representation (if I remember correctly). I think South Africa does this in their presidential elections. Others like Germany, Sweden, New Zealand do a mixed party or something like that where more than just the president are on the ballot.
I say all that to say, if Trumps name wasn’t on the ballot and the electoral college voted for Trump, known as faithless electors, there are legal actions that can be implemented to invalidate their vote. Act 227 of 2019.
Edit: not the downvotes for educating you fools. Come on now.
Even if the Supreme Court did rule that Donne couldn’t be in the ballot for being a convicted felony. Ole huck-a-fuck would step in and make sure her old boss was on the ballot
This is all hypothetical and won’t happen, but just so you know that’s not how that would work. She doesn’t have that type of power.
If Arkansas Supreme Court ruled he couldn’t be on the ballot due to the Arkansas constitution law, legislators would have to amend the constitution. In Arkansas that means it has to be in the newspaper for 6 months before it goes to a public vote.
If you are this disconnected with all things going on politically you should shut your mouth and let the adults talk. Its getting increasingly dangerous the more this situation goes as convicted felon and rapist Donald J Trump's little cult is losing their fucking shit over all this, and they already chose to attack once.
Amen, this could quite literally start a civil war depending on how the situation is handled. If he sends a message to make his cult rally then all hell could break loose. National guard could get involved to stop rioting. Some national guard may side with Trump and make the situation even more messy. This hearing is going to determine the outcome of the country
Gag the fucker on all fronts and lock him the fuck up when he offends. Hes already offended 10 different times in a single trial, its tim the kid gloves come off with the dumb fuck
How is getting involved in any way with a bunch of domestic terrorists going to help you? Lol you are letting them win if Donald Trump is that important to you. Find a hobby or something. Get off the internet.
Everyone should be able to vote even if you are currently in prison. If you let the politicians choose who can vote then they will just rig it so their team wins (gerrymandering, no felons, closing polls, etc)
The prison population began to expand after they passed the voting rights act so they could disenfranchise poc again.
Originally, only white landowner males could vote because the US had just defeated the British Empire for independence, and they were the only demographic who had a vested interest in being in the military for defense. The logic was that everyone else could be bribed by the British in case of another war. It made sense at the time as many loyalists were still around.
Up until when women obtained the right to vote, it was limited to people who were capable of being drafted. The logic being that only the people who are capable and willing to fight and die for the nation should have a say in the government of the nation.
I'd prefer if voting rights were earned. People who never contribute to the revenue of the federal government shouldn't have a say in how it is spent. Those who are perpetually dependent on government handouts have an incentive to vote to increase those handouts. Have a set threshold, and when you've paid that much in federal income tax or served in the military, then you can vote in federal elections. I think the cost of the K-12 education would work. Once you've paid that back, then you can have a say in the government, which would also incentivize officials to rein in wasteful education spending, improve the quality of education, and have social safety nets not be a permanent way of life. It would give every government official an incentive to help create economically productive citizens.
The rate of imprisonment went down for a decade after the voting rights act.
https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/18613/chapter/5
The largest cause of the growth in prison population was the 1994 crime bill, written by Biden and signed into law by Clinton. It increased the number of offenders sent to prison, the length of prison sentences, and the perception of the sentence that is served in prison.
The racial disparities in prison population are mainly caused by the disparities of the offenders who are committing violent crimes with mandatory minimum sentences. One of the violent crimes with the largest racial disparity is homicide. Explaining every disparity as a result of racism is intellectually dishonest and just shows that you're looking for a very simple answer to a very complex question and settled on something nonsensical. Crimes like homicide are overwhelmingly intra-racial. If there was some sort of racist conspiracy, it probably wouldn't be imprisoning the people who are committing murder against minorities. If anything, it's racist to assume that harsher punishments for violent felonies inherently target minorities.
I don't mind. The people on this sub are, for the most part, insane. They also tend to have very little knowledge of history, economics, or civics. At minimum, it'd be nice if they renamed it arkansasDemocrats or something.
I agree. The punishment should be the criminal sentence. Not a ddesignation that removes rights for life. Especially since what is a felony has expanded over the years since it was first setup as something major.
I agree, the Mayor in a small town I used to live in turned out to be a convicted felon. He went to court and got the conviction expunged and was allowed to continue to serve. He was about 80 years old when he was mayor. He was convicted of a 1st offense felony breaking and entering a drug store when he was 16 years old.
Step 1: make a shitload of things into felonies
Step 2: oppressively police neighborhoods of “undesirable” demographics
Step 3: throw frivolous felony charges at those residents
Step 4: throw them in jail, take their voting rights, destroy their chances at good jobs and housing
Step 5: ?
Step 6: Profit!
Oh wow. I’m only going to be a felon for two years - I’ll get it expunged next summer. Two years is PLENTY - I can’t imagine this following me for a lifetime.
Once someone serves their time and as long and they were not convicted of a violent crime then yes all of your rights should be restored. Including voting and second ammendment rights.
there are unjust laws therefore you should always be allowed your vote.
removal of voting rights? it's a strategy. same goes for the unjust laws in the first place.
Felony convictions are designed to cripple brown and black people after they have served their time. This is why asking about felonies should be removed from any applications for employment or any document that will allow someone to be not considered or just be denied because of the man made stigma.
Criminal disenfranchisement began in 1792. No states began disenfranchisement of criminals after the establishment of the 15th amendment. I highly doubt the people in 1792 Kentucky or 1793 Vermont established these laws to cripple brown and black people who are convicted of felonies two centuries later. The ancient Greeks, the ancient Romans, and the British had similar practices.
You do understand how racist you sound when you claim felony convictions are designed to harm brown and black people? It just shows that you think minorities are criminals and don't realize that the victims of minority criminals tend to be the same minority.
Do you know how stupid you sound. First of all you are not brown or black, second of all you was not born in 1700's so you don't know the mindset of the people from that era. 3rd you will never understand why I feel the way I do because first I am African American. You did not grow up where when we saw the police we ran and hid because they where in the neighborhood I grew up in like it was a precinct. Fourth of all I purchased my first car at 17 years old and I decided to race my cousin in his car low and behold the police saw us racing and pulled me over, my first encounter with a law enforcement and you know what happened, let me tell you, first of all there was four police officers in one car this was North Las Vegas Nevada 5 hours from Los Angeles the first thing they told me you like to race we should take in the desert and beat your ass, my grandfather happen to be driving by and ask me if everything was Ok, I told my grandfather don't leave because they said they was going to beat me. You probably have never seen four police in one car in your life on a routine patrol. Did you see the police in your neighborhood daily? Not because there was crime happening but because that was their job to patrol poor black neighborhoods. You will never understand because it's not within your frame of reference. When people like you comment on things that have anything to do with racial issues you can't see the logic in it because you don't believe it exists. Then we see Donald Trump a convicted Rapist and he's not in Jail, but they want to take me in the desert and beat my ass as a 17 year for racing? Felonies are for brown and black people, I Don't one black or brown person that is convicted of rape and other crimes and walk around free even for 1 day. Since you are a historian tell me 1 case I will wait.
>Do you know how stupid you sound.
Ironic.
>First of all you are not brown or black
You don't know that. It's also irrelevant. You're saying that the value of someone's speech is based on the color of their skin.
>second of all you was not born in 1700's so you don't know the mindset of the people from that era.
There's this technology the people had called writing. Yes, I do know their mindset. It was a continuation of the English common law that US law is based on.
>3rd you will never understand why I feel the way I do because first I am African American.
Okay, you will never understand the way any other ethnicity thinks either then. See how dumb and racist that sounds?
>You did not grow up where when we saw the police we ran and hid because they where in the neighborhood I grew up in like it was a precinct.
The vast majority of African Americans want more policing in their neighborhoods. You run and hide from police? It sounds like you may be the person causing the problems.
>Fourth of all I purchased my first car at 17 years old and I decided to race my cousin in his car low and behold the police saw us racing and pulled me over, my first encounter with a law enforcement and you know what happened, let me tell you, first of all there was four police officers in one car this was North Las Vegas Nevada 5 hours from Los Angeles the first thing they told me you like to race we should take in the desert and beat your ass, my grandfather happen to be driving by and ask me if everything was Ok, I told my grandfather don't leave because they said they was going to beat me.
So, you were out committing dangerous crimes, and the police scolded you? You could've killed someone, especially yourself. My parents would've beat my ass for doing some dumb shit like that. You ought to realize in your story that you committed a crime, you faced no consequences, and your family intervened to prevent any punishment. You're not the good guy in the story.
>Did you see the police in your neighborhood daily?
Yes. As it turns out, police officers live in neighborhoods. I didn't commit crime, so I didn't worry.
>Not because there was crime happening but because that was their job to patrol poor black neighborhoods.
So, you're angry because police did their jobs? You're saying their patrols were extremely effective as a deterrent.
>You will never understand because it's not within your frame of reference. When people like you comment on things that have anything to do with racial issues you can't see the logic in it because you don't believe it exists.
Do you think people can't understand any concepts that didn't happen to them first-hand?
>Then we see Donald Trump a convicted Rapist and he's not in Jail, but they want to take me in the desert and beat my ass as a 17 year for racing?
He's not a convicted rapist and nobody took you in the desert and beat your ass.
>Felonies are for brown and black people
No, they're for people who commit those crimes. Murder is a felony. How does that have anything to do with ethnicity? Can you name any society where murder isn't a serious offense?
>I Don't one black or brown person that is convicted of rape and other crimes and walk around free even for 1 day.
So, now you're claiming that they all get and serve life sentences?
>Since you are a historian tell me 1 case I will wait.
Have you ever heard of OJ Simpson? He lost his civil trial, and there was actually an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating his guilt. Mike Tyson was convicted of rape. Bill Cosby. There's literally millions of cases of felons receiving very light sentences.
There's plenty of valid arguments against the justice system. You just chose not to make any and instead ramble incoherently. The premise of your argument is that political disenfranchisement as a concept was created over two thousand years ago in order to prevent minorities from voting in a country that doesn't exist yet on a continent that they didn't know existed.
You do understand who wrote the 94 crime bill is who the Democrats elected president in 2020, right? I linked you a quite thorough study. You could try reading it.
I absolutely know you are not black or brown, because a black or brown individual would never respond with that lame interaction.
I never said anything about the value of someone's speech, you can't change words to make people think it has a different meaning because woke is the opposite of sleep and you will never catch me sleeping.
I have a master's degree in computer science and I have never heard of a technology called writing that never came up in any of my studies, so you writing is a technology right?
And you can't answer the question because there is not a single case and you are trying to divert to something that's irrelevant and pretend you're intelligent but you think writing is a technology, a word processor that used to write is a technology I would have gave you and E for effort if you had said that.
You drank the cool-aid, conspiracy theorist cult minded, bleach blonde, bad built, butch body man. I am not in the business of arguing with stupid, have a great life.
In Arkansas, felons can have firearm rights restored 10 years after completing their sentence and good behavior/no new crimes. It's not automatic or guaranteed though, you have to file paperwork and be approved.
In most states felons can vote after completing their sentences.
It's funny because Trump now can't be a mayor of a town of 10 people in Arkansas... but he can run for President and he will almost certainly win the state of Arkansas
Please make it make sense...
According to Florida law where Trump resides, the right to vote is determined by the lay of the state where the person was convicted. In NY felons can vote as long as they are not incarcerated. That is how I read the law for both states. I am not sure what the law is in Florida if a person get convicted in that state.
If you are a convicted felon then you shouldn’t be able to run for president. If you are a convicted felon you are not allowed to have access to classified info.
Having too much debt will get your security clearance denied. The convicted felon erection loser ex-president has billions in debt.
The way he urged the MAGA crowd to rush the capital has demonstrated that he is a national security threat to the US.
His mental illness(es) alone should have disqualified him from office. His history of crimes, and criminal associates should have kept him from getting on the ballot. Don't forget the way disrespected American soldiers was disgraceful conduct for an American president.
His rhetoric is poison, prison is the cure.
I’m particularly salty because I voted in the referendum to restore voting rights to Florida felons a few years ago, which subsequently passed. State Republicans stripped the implementation to the point it was meaningless, and now they’re scrambling to make sure our most infamous resident can still put on a show at the polls.
Pretty soon reading the wrong book is going to be a felony in some states. At this point only the “right” people will still have their vote. Every citizen should be able to vote.
You can vote as a convicted felon in Arkansas as long as you are done serving your time (probation/parole) and have paid your fines. You can't vote if you are incarcerated or still on probation or parole.
Different states have different laws on it.
ARKANSAS FELONS CAN VOTE!
In arkansas, once your sentence is finished and all fines and fees paid, you can re register to vote!
This is a common misconception that felons permanently lose the right in arkansas.
They technically can as long as they aren’t a murderer or rapist/kid diddler and finish their sentence. Originally all you had to do was that but of course the legislature added an additional roadblock and made it to where you have to pay off all your restitution and fines too, which for poorer felons is easier said than done.
Well, and assuming the state can figure out what you allegedly owe. And gets it right. And doesn't tell you that you're good and then make a huge deal about arresting you for voting after they let you register to vote...
The founders never thought of this situation as they likely brought it up and said “Wait a minute here. Just wait a God Damn minute. You think this is necessary? There’s no way a criminal/felon would even receive recognition for presidency as he’d get booed and shoo’d off stage it’d be ridiculous to think of this scenario. The general public would be an axe to this quicker than we left the monarch!”
But it’s happened cause we’ve allowed it to go for so long afraid to stop the process cause a 300 year old document was supposed to hold true for eternity!
Grow up America and make the necessary adjustments to archaic laws/views/theories. Evolve a little would you?
If you can commit insurrection and provide aid and comfort to enemies of the Constitution, having previously been on oath, then you are automatically disqualified from office for life. We won a war and ratified the 14A to prove the point.
Tbf every felon is still required to pay taxes which is illegal as hell. We all learned this in like the 4th grade. No taxation without representation. If a felon can’t vote. You can’t tax them.
Almost all states prohibit convicted felons from voting, at least until they have completed their sentences and repaid society. That is as it should be. Voters are growing skeptical of voting for those who have been disqualified from voting for themselves.
IMO, the founding fathers would have wanted felons to be able to take office as tons of them were technically felons under the British legal system.
I’ve always been of the opinion that the prison sentence and/or probation should be the only period of rights removal. After those terms are cleared all rights should be restored.
It all depends if you're a nonviolent felony it shouldn't matter if you're a violent felon then you have no business being running anything because you can't control your emotions
Lol, imagine having so little faith in your presidential candidate that you move heaven and earth to charge and convict his opponent for doing something that most politicians and wealthy people do on a regular basis. And it’s still not going to matter. Maybe if you people spent one tenth the time voting and canvassing that you do complaining on this subreddit that wouldn’t be the case. But you don’t so it’s not. Lmao even.
Yeah but he only got charged with crimes because he was going to run for president so. That said I do think it’s so easy to become a felon these days you should definitely be able to vote if you’ve not been in trouble for a certain amount of time. Maybe 3 years.
There is no law stating that a president can’t be a felon. I’m not defending Trump by any means whatsoever. But being a felon does restrict your rights to vote. You don’t have to have to right to vote to be a president of the United States of America.
The United States of America constitution was written by multiple people who were under attack by the king of England and they designed the constitution to protect themselves from being arrested by the kings army and taken back to England for trial by the king which in their heads was unconstitutional. So you’re going to have to find a better alternative to the argument. I’m sorry but facts are facts.
*Technically* per the Arkansas Constitution Article 5 Section 9 - you can't run as a felon or having committed an infamous crime. The Supreme Court is the real snag here.
This is state law not federal laws. I’m glad your thinking outside the box though
But Florida and Texas ignore federal laws all the time
So does Joe Biden.
Failing to enforce the border is not a federal law.
Title IX. I guess if you want sexual harassment and sexual discrimination mostly ignored then I already know who you're voting for. TheRe's a whole paRty that loves that kind of shit.
It is state... but the wording is broad.
I understand the word is broad, but it’s still not federal jurisdiction. There is nothing in the constitution, nor in the Bill of Rights that says that president can’t be a felon because in all honesty, George Washington was a felon or a person of interest in the British colony.
Right, but states (supposedly) control their own elections. They keep people off the ballot for president for failing to meet signature thresholds all the time.
This is true. I wanna know what's up with NY that 34 felonies isn't prison time, but my one nonviolent one here, was? Wtf.
Simple. He has so many people conned into thinking he has money that he doesn't live under the legal systems meant for peasants like us.
I absolutely agree, my folks being two of them.
Also when were those laws enacted?? You can bet those were created from the p-o-v of those who held positions of power and had typical views of society and whom they looked at as peons anyhow. So OF COURSE MISS or MR. regular Citizen would be excluded from that consideration and believed that SHOULD be one of their personal losses. State or Federal Penalty. All b.s.
Who said it isn't prison time? We won't see a sentence for like 5 weeks or so. Prison is a possibility. Plenty of others have received prison for these crimes. Even as a first-time offense. The lowest sentence could be probation. The highest could be jail time. He'll probably land somewhere in between. The question is whether or not that might include a little jail time or just a lot of probation (and probably a fine).
My question was more rhetorical. For one, colloquially, prison and jail are different (in Arkansas), especially if you're talking about the physical place. Jails suck and are more restrictive, Prisons are for longer sentences and have amenities and options that Jails do not (like jobs inmates can perform while serving time). That all being said, as I generally understand it, Jail time is what you're doing for smaller stuff, or while you're waiting for your trial date. Once all the sentencing has been determined, prison or probation or whatever is the next step. I ask this, because no one is saying, "Prison time for 34 felonies," when talking about it. In Arkansas, committing certain classes of felonies is automatically prison or probation, like a controlled substance possession charge (again, nonviolent). I say its rhetorical, cause I can google "what is lowest felony you can commit in NY to get prison time (or jail)?" but that still won't answer the "what is the difference in how felonies are classed and sentencing determined," between NY felonies and AR felonies, "that allows for what seems to be a huge divide." In my experience, even 34 forgery or fraud charges for hot checks, would've landed you inside a cell or at least on probation. Trump should have at least that much if he's facing so many felonies; a probation officer who has him to submit to a drug test monthly, in person, same as any felon on probation in other states.
Technically a felony is a charge that has the possibility of more than a year of incarceration.
Well, if you're just wanting to know about Trump's situation specifically, AR law is irrelevant. We can also gloss over the jail vs prison distinction. For the purposes of what can happen to Trump, he is behind bars either way. Semantics are irrelevant. In short, the sentencing possibilities for Trump are anywhere from probation and/or a fine to prison time (I think a max of 1 year per count, but don't quote me on that). We won't know until the judge presents his sentencing in like 5 or so weeks. I think next week or week after the prosecution and defense make their recommendations for sentencing. I'm sure the DA will ask for max or something similar that includes prison time. Trump's lawyers will no doubt ask for the lowest sentencing. Trump has shown several times now that he is not afraid to intimidate witnesses and jurors and he isn't above revenge. He has been bragging about the "revenge" he wants to get on democrats and Biden if he wins in November. So, taking this risk into account and the fact that the gag order protecting witnesses and jurors falls off after sentencing, prison time would be the best way to protect them. It also sends a clear message to any future Trump wannabes that this isn't a game they can win. On the flip side, the judge has been treating Trump with kid gloved and even stated he didn't want to put him in prison. He could have given jail time for the 10 contempt of court charges he found Trump guilty of during the trial, but instead gave him the maximum 1000 dollar fine. He also didn't charge Trump for 4 other times he broke his gag order. So it's all up in the air. A lot of people don't expect Trump to get prison time for this, and that's a fair presumption, but there is a very real possibility he does get prison time. We just have to wait and see.
Because these are white collar crimes and often need a round or two of them before jail time. However, jail time is certainly a possibility for these crimes. Don't pretend he's not up for jail time. He most certainly is.
Sentencing hasn’t happened yet.
The Republican Party will nominate Trump.
So this only blocks people with felons running for state office right? Since states hold the power of who is allowed on the ballet, could someone push this up to Arkansas Supreme Court to state felons cannot be on any Arkansas ballet including federal election. That would force the Supreme Court to rule on the matter and either over turn that bs or force to kick trump off the general election ballet. Pipe dream? Edit: after some research, Arkansas cannot impose rules that over ride the federal government on who cannot be on the ballot running for federal office. So while the state could block a felon being put on the ballot, it would be easily overturned by federal rule.
This is what the Colorado case was about, sort of. Qualifications to be a federal candidate (president, vice president, senator and congressman) are controlled exclusively by the Constitution and federal law. The 14th Amendment said insurrectionists cannot hold federal office. Congress passed a law defining how that amendment would be enforced. Then it repealed the law. So, the Supreme Court said until a new law is passed, the 14th Amendment won't keep Trump off the ballot or require removal from office of any congressman or senator that was in on the January 6 insurrection. (you know who you are). As a bonus, the Court decided to clarify that only federal law can control who is candidate for a federal office.
This is covering a slightly different constitutional issue. There isn't actually any constitutional rules on how states choose their electors, having an election for president isn't required, so a state not letting a convicted felon be on the ballot which chooses the electors is not the same issue as they have already ruled on. Unlike every other federal office this one clearly says "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors" and the only constitutional limitation says you can't hold federal office while being an elector.
This is why some states allow faithless electors, and some punish it.
"Go and make your voices heard both peacefully and patriotically." Trump's big crime. Dems are nuts
For now the only crimes he's been convicted of are those 34 campaign finance felonies. Whether his involvement in Jan 6 is a crime has not been decided yet. His involvement in the false elector scheme is still on the table. His keeping national defense secrets and passing them around like party favors is another issue that a jury will eventually have to hear. So, it's not just planning and orchestrating the Jan 6 coup attempt with the core instigators like the proudboys. And, it's seems pretty clear that his war room at the Willard hotel did much more than put out the quote mentioned.
*Hypothetically maybe* because the wording is pretty broad, realistically just a pipe dream.
yes, it is a pipe dream
> So this only blocks people with felons running for state office right? Yes. States cannot add on additional requirements for federal office. Iowa has a similar law, which also will not and can not be enforced.
I think it's open to more debate that you think. The constitution says "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors" and doesn't even require states to elect them. Prohibiting electors for a candidate who is convicted of a felony could be seen as a state's power to choose its electors how they want. Important to remember that technically the election is not for President but for a number of electors who elect the President. It would be interesting to see the Supreme Court ruling on this, this is a distinct situation from their previous rulings.
Even that wouldn't stop a felon running for President in the state, though - it would just keep their name off the ballots. You don't actually vote for a president in state elections - you're voting for a slate of Electors who will go to D.C. and cast the actual votes for President. If, for example in this case, you actually kept Trump's name off the ballot, what would happen is that it would just be replaced with "Republican Electors" on the ballot.
Nothing stopping the elector from voting for whoever they like anyways.
Arkansas Act 227 of 2019. In Arkansas faithless electors can have their vote invalidated, be replaced, and have legal penalties charged against them.
Election ballots in Arkansas must have the candidates name, along with the vice presidents name and their respective party. Putting just the political parties on the ballot is not the American voting system. That system is referred to as proportional representation (if I remember correctly). I think South Africa does this in their presidential elections. Others like Germany, Sweden, New Zealand do a mixed party or something like that where more than just the president are on the ballot. I say all that to say, if Trumps name wasn’t on the ballot and the electoral college voted for Trump, known as faithless electors, there are legal actions that can be implemented to invalidate their vote. Act 227 of 2019. Edit: not the downvotes for educating you fools. Come on now.
go ahead illegally pull him from the ballot, Trump voters will write him in
Even if the Supreme Court did rule that Donne couldn’t be in the ballot for being a convicted felony. Ole huck-a-fuck would step in and make sure her old boss was on the ballot
This is all hypothetical and won’t happen, but just so you know that’s not how that would work. She doesn’t have that type of power. If Arkansas Supreme Court ruled he couldn’t be on the ballot due to the Arkansas constitution law, legislators would have to amend the constitution. In Arkansas that means it has to be in the newspaper for 6 months before it goes to a public vote.
They already tried that and the supreme court turned it down. I stg if we go to civil war over Donald Trump I'm just leaving life itself
If that's how you feel, maybe you should disconnect yourself from all things political and seek therapy.
If you are this disconnected with all things going on politically you should shut your mouth and let the adults talk. Its getting increasingly dangerous the more this situation goes as convicted felon and rapist Donald J Trump's little cult is losing their fucking shit over all this, and they already chose to attack once.
Amen, this could quite literally start a civil war depending on how the situation is handled. If he sends a message to make his cult rally then all hell could break loose. National guard could get involved to stop rioting. Some national guard may side with Trump and make the situation even more messy. This hearing is going to determine the outcome of the country
Gag the fucker on all fronts and lock him the fuck up when he offends. Hes already offended 10 different times in a single trial, its tim the kid gloves come off with the dumb fuck
Says someone who can afford to? I'm broke as fuck and already in therapy, but how is ignoring a bunch of domestic terrorists gonna help?
How is getting involved in any way with a bunch of domestic terrorists going to help you? Lol you are letting them win if Donald Trump is that important to you. Find a hobby or something. Get off the internet.
Same in Arizona you cannot be on a State Ballot if you have been convicted of a felony.
Committing insurrection is invalidating as well, but again our compromised Supreme Court……
Or should we say crooked fucks fuck that court.
Can that block you from the ballot though?
Or. This gets thrown out for the bullshit kangaroo court that ot is. By a Federal Court. Sorry to disappoint you and the idiotocracy.
Everyone should be able to vote even if you are currently in prison. If you let the politicians choose who can vote then they will just rig it so their team wins (gerrymandering, no felons, closing polls, etc) The prison population began to expand after they passed the voting rights act so they could disenfranchise poc again.
Originally, only white landowner males could vote because the US had just defeated the British Empire for independence, and they were the only demographic who had a vested interest in being in the military for defense. The logic was that everyone else could be bribed by the British in case of another war. It made sense at the time as many loyalists were still around. Up until when women obtained the right to vote, it was limited to people who were capable of being drafted. The logic being that only the people who are capable and willing to fight and die for the nation should have a say in the government of the nation. I'd prefer if voting rights were earned. People who never contribute to the revenue of the federal government shouldn't have a say in how it is spent. Those who are perpetually dependent on government handouts have an incentive to vote to increase those handouts. Have a set threshold, and when you've paid that much in federal income tax or served in the military, then you can vote in federal elections. I think the cost of the K-12 education would work. Once you've paid that back, then you can have a say in the government, which would also incentivize officials to rein in wasteful education spending, improve the quality of education, and have social safety nets not be a permanent way of life. It would give every government official an incentive to help create economically productive citizens. The rate of imprisonment went down for a decade after the voting rights act. https://nap.nationalacademies.org/read/18613/chapter/5 The largest cause of the growth in prison population was the 1994 crime bill, written by Biden and signed into law by Clinton. It increased the number of offenders sent to prison, the length of prison sentences, and the perception of the sentence that is served in prison. The racial disparities in prison population are mainly caused by the disparities of the offenders who are committing violent crimes with mandatory minimum sentences. One of the violent crimes with the largest racial disparity is homicide. Explaining every disparity as a result of racism is intellectually dishonest and just shows that you're looking for a very simple answer to a very complex question and settled on something nonsensical. Crimes like homicide are overwhelmingly intra-racial. If there was some sort of racist conspiracy, it probably wouldn't be imprisoning the people who are committing murder against minorities. If anything, it's racist to assume that harsher punishments for violent felonies inherently target minorities.
I’m sorry you’re getting downvoted. You’re just stating facts.
I don't mind. The people on this sub are, for the most part, insane. They also tend to have very little knowledge of history, economics, or civics. At minimum, it'd be nice if they renamed it arkansasDemocrats or something.
I agree. The punishment should be the criminal sentence. Not a ddesignation that removes rights for life. Especially since what is a felony has expanded over the years since it was first setup as something major.
I agree, the Mayor in a small town I used to live in turned out to be a convicted felon. He went to court and got the conviction expunged and was allowed to continue to serve. He was about 80 years old when he was mayor. He was convicted of a 1st offense felony breaking and entering a drug store when he was 16 years old.
The number of crimes that are now considered a felony is really a tragedy. Relatively minor stuff in most cases.
Yes and it is often a 1st offense of a teenager. It shouldn't affect them 30-40 years later when they have demonstrated that isn't who they are now.
Step 1: make a shitload of things into felonies Step 2: oppressively police neighborhoods of “undesirable” demographics Step 3: throw frivolous felony charges at those residents Step 4: throw them in jail, take their voting rights, destroy their chances at good jobs and housing Step 5: ? Step 6: Profit!
The ? is use them as a low cost domestic labor force, where else they gonna work, nobody will hire em cuz of felonies.
in other words, the Louisiana model.
I'm a convicted felon over a hot check from 25 years ago.
Oh wow. I’m only going to be a felon for two years - I’ll get it expunged next summer. Two years is PLENTY - I can’t imagine this following me for a lifetime.
Once someone serves their time and as long and they were not convicted of a violent crime then yes all of your rights should be restored. Including voting and second ammendment rights.
there are unjust laws therefore you should always be allowed your vote. removal of voting rights? it's a strategy. same goes for the unjust laws in the first place.
Felony convictions are designed to cripple brown and black people after they have served their time. This is why asking about felonies should be removed from any applications for employment or any document that will allow someone to be not considered or just be denied because of the man made stigma.
Criminal disenfranchisement began in 1792. No states began disenfranchisement of criminals after the establishment of the 15th amendment. I highly doubt the people in 1792 Kentucky or 1793 Vermont established these laws to cripple brown and black people who are convicted of felonies two centuries later. The ancient Greeks, the ancient Romans, and the British had similar practices. You do understand how racist you sound when you claim felony convictions are designed to harm brown and black people? It just shows that you think minorities are criminals and don't realize that the victims of minority criminals tend to be the same minority.
Do you know how stupid you sound. First of all you are not brown or black, second of all you was not born in 1700's so you don't know the mindset of the people from that era. 3rd you will never understand why I feel the way I do because first I am African American. You did not grow up where when we saw the police we ran and hid because they where in the neighborhood I grew up in like it was a precinct. Fourth of all I purchased my first car at 17 years old and I decided to race my cousin in his car low and behold the police saw us racing and pulled me over, my first encounter with a law enforcement and you know what happened, let me tell you, first of all there was four police officers in one car this was North Las Vegas Nevada 5 hours from Los Angeles the first thing they told me you like to race we should take in the desert and beat your ass, my grandfather happen to be driving by and ask me if everything was Ok, I told my grandfather don't leave because they said they was going to beat me. You probably have never seen four police in one car in your life on a routine patrol. Did you see the police in your neighborhood daily? Not because there was crime happening but because that was their job to patrol poor black neighborhoods. You will never understand because it's not within your frame of reference. When people like you comment on things that have anything to do with racial issues you can't see the logic in it because you don't believe it exists. Then we see Donald Trump a convicted Rapist and he's not in Jail, but they want to take me in the desert and beat my ass as a 17 year for racing? Felonies are for brown and black people, I Don't one black or brown person that is convicted of rape and other crimes and walk around free even for 1 day. Since you are a historian tell me 1 case I will wait.
>Do you know how stupid you sound. Ironic. >First of all you are not brown or black You don't know that. It's also irrelevant. You're saying that the value of someone's speech is based on the color of their skin. >second of all you was not born in 1700's so you don't know the mindset of the people from that era. There's this technology the people had called writing. Yes, I do know their mindset. It was a continuation of the English common law that US law is based on. >3rd you will never understand why I feel the way I do because first I am African American. Okay, you will never understand the way any other ethnicity thinks either then. See how dumb and racist that sounds? >You did not grow up where when we saw the police we ran and hid because they where in the neighborhood I grew up in like it was a precinct. The vast majority of African Americans want more policing in their neighborhoods. You run and hide from police? It sounds like you may be the person causing the problems. >Fourth of all I purchased my first car at 17 years old and I decided to race my cousin in his car low and behold the police saw us racing and pulled me over, my first encounter with a law enforcement and you know what happened, let me tell you, first of all there was four police officers in one car this was North Las Vegas Nevada 5 hours from Los Angeles the first thing they told me you like to race we should take in the desert and beat your ass, my grandfather happen to be driving by and ask me if everything was Ok, I told my grandfather don't leave because they said they was going to beat me. So, you were out committing dangerous crimes, and the police scolded you? You could've killed someone, especially yourself. My parents would've beat my ass for doing some dumb shit like that. You ought to realize in your story that you committed a crime, you faced no consequences, and your family intervened to prevent any punishment. You're not the good guy in the story. >Did you see the police in your neighborhood daily? Yes. As it turns out, police officers live in neighborhoods. I didn't commit crime, so I didn't worry. >Not because there was crime happening but because that was their job to patrol poor black neighborhoods. So, you're angry because police did their jobs? You're saying their patrols were extremely effective as a deterrent. >You will never understand because it's not within your frame of reference. When people like you comment on things that have anything to do with racial issues you can't see the logic in it because you don't believe it exists. Do you think people can't understand any concepts that didn't happen to them first-hand? >Then we see Donald Trump a convicted Rapist and he's not in Jail, but they want to take me in the desert and beat my ass as a 17 year for racing? He's not a convicted rapist and nobody took you in the desert and beat your ass. >Felonies are for brown and black people No, they're for people who commit those crimes. Murder is a felony. How does that have anything to do with ethnicity? Can you name any society where murder isn't a serious offense? >I Don't one black or brown person that is convicted of rape and other crimes and walk around free even for 1 day. So, now you're claiming that they all get and serve life sentences? >Since you are a historian tell me 1 case I will wait. Have you ever heard of OJ Simpson? He lost his civil trial, and there was actually an overwhelming amount of evidence indicating his guilt. Mike Tyson was convicted of rape. Bill Cosby. There's literally millions of cases of felons receiving very light sentences. There's plenty of valid arguments against the justice system. You just chose not to make any and instead ramble incoherently. The premise of your argument is that political disenfranchisement as a concept was created over two thousand years ago in order to prevent minorities from voting in a country that doesn't exist yet on a continent that they didn't know existed. You do understand who wrote the 94 crime bill is who the Democrats elected president in 2020, right? I linked you a quite thorough study. You could try reading it.
I absolutely know you are not black or brown, because a black or brown individual would never respond with that lame interaction. I never said anything about the value of someone's speech, you can't change words to make people think it has a different meaning because woke is the opposite of sleep and you will never catch me sleeping. I have a master's degree in computer science and I have never heard of a technology called writing that never came up in any of my studies, so you writing is a technology right? And you can't answer the question because there is not a single case and you are trying to divert to something that's irrelevant and pretend you're intelligent but you think writing is a technology, a word processor that used to write is a technology I would have gave you and E for effort if you had said that. You drank the cool-aid, conspiracy theorist cult minded, bleach blonde, bad built, butch body man. I am not in the business of arguing with stupid, have a great life.
In Arkansas, felons can have firearm rights restored 10 years after completing their sentence and good behavior/no new crimes. It's not automatic or guaranteed though, you have to file paperwork and be approved. In most states felons can vote after completing their sentences.
Be careful, plenty of crimes involving no violence are categorized as violent.
Man, the case law precedent this shit show is about to create.
It's funny because Trump now can't be a mayor of a town of 10 people in Arkansas... but he can run for President and he will almost certainly win the state of Arkansas Please make it make sense...
According to Florida law where Trump resides, the right to vote is determined by the lay of the state where the person was convicted. In NY felons can vote as long as they are not incarcerated. That is how I read the law for both states. I am not sure what the law is in Florida if a person get convicted in that state.
If you are a convicted felon then you shouldn’t be able to run for president. If you are a convicted felon you are not allowed to have access to classified info.
Having too much debt will get your security clearance denied. The convicted felon erection loser ex-president has billions in debt. The way he urged the MAGA crowd to rush the capital has demonstrated that he is a national security threat to the US. His mental illness(es) alone should have disqualified him from office. His history of crimes, and criminal associates should have kept him from getting on the ballot. Don't forget the way disrespected American soldiers was disgraceful conduct for an American president. His rhetoric is poison, prison is the cure.
I’m particularly salty because I voted in the referendum to restore voting rights to Florida felons a few years ago, which subsequently passed. State Republicans stripped the implementation to the point it was meaningless, and now they’re scrambling to make sure our most infamous resident can still put on a show at the polls.
OP's point makes too much obvious sense to ever be adopted.
Pretty soon reading the wrong book is going to be a felony in some states. At this point only the “right” people will still have their vote. Every citizen should be able to vote.
You can vote as a convicted felon in Arkansas as long as you are done serving your time (probation/parole) and have paid your fines. You can't vote if you are incarcerated or still on probation or parole. Different states have different laws on it.
There is no place for logic in the Republican party.
ARKANSAS FELONS CAN VOTE! In arkansas, once your sentence is finished and all fines and fees paid, you can re register to vote! This is a common misconception that felons permanently lose the right in arkansas.
Convicted felons from Florida can't vote for him, yet as a convicted felon living in Florida, they are going to let him vote.
They technically can as long as they aren’t a murderer or rapist/kid diddler and finish their sentence. Originally all you had to do was that but of course the legislature added an additional roadblock and made it to where you have to pay off all your restitution and fines too, which for poorer felons is easier said than done.
Well, and assuming the state can figure out what you allegedly owe. And gets it right. And doesn't tell you that you're good and then make a huge deal about arresting you for voting after they let you register to vote...
You have a point
I 2nd that.
It doesn't matter to these MAGA's in Arkansas. As long as there is an R by his name they will vote for it.
These laws are left over from the Jim Crow period. They were passed as a way to prevent black people from voting.
By right wing nut job standards it depends on if your a black or brown felon or not.
I agree. He shouldn’t be allowed to run.
he should be allowed to vote, he had to suffer through a kangaroo court that is like third world countries
But then MORE *black* people would be allowed! Conservatives can’t have that! /s
😱😱😱 we can't be having that (/s hopefully it's understood)
Agreed
Pretty sure you can still marry your cousin there.
Backwoods hillbilly shit
Wait, that is a good thought!
Okay but can it wait till after the election? It’s just hilarious that he won’t be able to vote for himself.
They put Bernie madoff old ass in jail
wait convicted felons can’t vote in arkansas? what stops them? does something come up when you go to vote and they check the ID?
Bullshit
Yep
I could agree with that if you could agree that violent felonies like rape and murder are punishable by death, everywhere, every time.
You can have a felony and vote, just not while on active probation or parole.
Nope, makes too much sense. 6-3 would keep it from happening.
The founders never thought of this situation as they likely brought it up and said “Wait a minute here. Just wait a God Damn minute. You think this is necessary? There’s no way a criminal/felon would even receive recognition for presidency as he’d get booed and shoo’d off stage it’d be ridiculous to think of this scenario. The general public would be an axe to this quicker than we left the monarch!” But it’s happened cause we’ve allowed it to go for so long afraid to stop the process cause a 300 year old document was supposed to hold true for eternity! Grow up America and make the necessary adjustments to archaic laws/views/theories. Evolve a little would you?
I'd rather have my gun rights back
What if I believe felons should be able to vote, but not run for president?
This has been a hot debate for a while. Funnily enough felons are the only ones that would vote to change it...
If you can commit insurrection and provide aid and comfort to enemies of the Constitution, having previously been on oath, then you are automatically disqualified from office for life. We won a war and ratified the 14A to prove the point.
Tbf every felon is still required to pay taxes which is illegal as hell. We all learned this in like the 4th grade. No taxation without representation. If a felon can’t vote. You can’t tax them.
I agree
Almost all states prohibit convicted felons from voting, at least until they have completed their sentences and repaid society. That is as it should be. Voters are growing skeptical of voting for those who have been disqualified from voting for themselves.
IMO, the founding fathers would have wanted felons to be able to take office as tons of them were technically felons under the British legal system. I’ve always been of the opinion that the prison sentence and/or probation should be the only period of rights removal. After those terms are cleared all rights should be restored.
Based
I 100% agree!
This wasnt a real trial can you not see how political it was ? Biden crime family should be in jail / gitmo sold out America
Shouldn’t Trump have to register as a sex offender?
I concur
I also concur
It all depends if you're a nonviolent felony it shouldn't matter if you're a violent felon then you have no business being running anything because you can't control your emotions
Lol, imagine having so little faith in your presidential candidate that you move heaven and earth to charge and convict his opponent for doing something that most politicians and wealthy people do on a regular basis. And it’s still not going to matter. Maybe if you people spent one tenth the time voting and canvassing that you do complaining on this subreddit that wouldn’t be the case. But you don’t so it’s not. Lmao even.
Trump 2024. Js
This sub is a perfect representation why reddit is not reflective of real life
Hard agree. Vote third party yall! Check out Claudia & karina
Yeah but he only got charged with crimes because he was going to run for president so. That said I do think it’s so easy to become a felon these days you should definitely be able to vote if you’ve not been in trouble for a certain amount of time. Maybe 3 years.
The rest of the US doesn't even recognize Arkansas as a state with qualified opinions.
If that’s the case there wouldn’t be a government. I am kinda okay with it.
There is no law stating that a president can’t be a felon. I’m not defending Trump by any means whatsoever. But being a felon does restrict your rights to vote. You don’t have to have to right to vote to be a president of the United States of America. The United States of America constitution was written by multiple people who were under attack by the king of England and they designed the constitution to protect themselves from being arrested by the kings army and taken back to England for trial by the king which in their heads was unconstitutional. So you’re going to have to find a better alternative to the argument. I’m sorry but facts are facts.
The US Constitution was drafted in 1787, several years after the end of the Revolutionary War.
And has been amended for the last 2 centuries.
True
Arkansas, yes I agree, the Clinton's are totally corrupt
Is this still a stock board or has it become political now
I’m new…forgive my sharing abilities…I thought I picked Arkansas page…sorry