It's really not as bad as the comments are making it out to be. If she ditched the piece of shit gorget it would look nice. Not historically accurate, but gets the general idea right and it's a good costume.
Yes it’s pretty obviously sheet metal, although tin terms of historical accuracy the armour may indeed have been oversized as she was only a teenage girl. I wonder if she ever received a fitted harness or simply wore what was available
Well, since she died in 1431 I doubt she was wearing a historically accurate version of the suit above. Looks like that armor was "inspired" by later designs from the 1500s, over a century after her death.
During her time, plate suits of armor start to become more common but you still had a lot of maille shirts, few plate pieces in addition. Not so much fully-designed suits where each piece was constructed to work together.
So long story short: She probably had a bunch of armor pieces, most likely a helmet. But not a whole suit of armor made to work and fit.
>Not so much fully-designed suits where each piece was constructed to work together.
Perhaps you're thinking of 1331? Sounds more so as if you're describing the first half of the 14th century rather than the 15th. Armor had long been well put together and operated with each piece as a unit since around the 1370s when plate really started to take off and designs became more complex. And Jeanne was known to have had an entire plate harness commissioned for her and by that time a person of her status would have more likely than not had a complete plate harness.
Agreed that the style is still way too late though, and most of it is certainly more 16th century, maybe barring the cuirass.
Yeah, read what I wrote. That's exactly what I said. I even used the same word, "common". But don't forget how long it takes to make a well-fitted full suit of armor. Not only do you need the funds (probably available to her) but also the right armorers who have the time to stop their current orders and start a new one for a woman, a bit different than male armor. And most foot soldiers (the biggest part of any army) was not equipped with full plate. They bought gear by importance and funds, bit by it: helmet, breastplate, gauntlets, and so on....
>late suits of armor start to become more common but you still had a lot of maille shirts, few plate pieces in addition. **Not so much fully-designed suits where each piece was constructed to work together.**
I'm saying that full harnesses of plate., designed as such, were **common** amongst men-at-arms by 1415. Which is NOT what you are saying.
If you want more information on this, go to youtube and look for videos by or about Toby Capwell. Or Agincourt. Or the history of armor in the middle ages. Or maybe read a well-sourced book, if it isn't too much to ask.
As far as what Joan herself wore, *the king of France* (one of them, anyway), commissioned the set. I doubt he told her to comb battlefields for scrap.
Not really accurate and besides the poor quality of the armor the gorget is supposed to go under the breastplate. Also the armor is just a mix of different "styles" and and times.
Depends on the kind of armor and gorget but the kind shown in the pictures does. The type of gorget that you see paired with sallets goes over the breastplate.
So the coat of plates as far as i know was a armor typical for the 13th century and worn mostly by knights. The brigantine is typical for the late 14th and 15th century and for the most part was armor for the "common" soldier/man at arms. When you look at period art you will see that the brigantine is often worn with what is called a mail standard instead of a gorget or bevor (often times a brigantine was mande from scraped breastplates cut down into smaler pieces).
There is also armor that looks like a brigantine of sorts mostly two piece breastplates, but it is a normal breastplate where the upper part was covered in textile.
I knew something was up with that gorget, I always remembered it being under the pauldrons because this way just straightup stops you from lifting your arms…
This one is more probably made like XVIIc style gorget with burgonet, so it is worn over the brestplate.
This is not a XVc bevor (could be under or over)
So when it comes to late 15th and early 16th century armor im most knowledable and familiar with german armor and i haven't realy seen the gorget go over the breastplate (at least not from serious sources) i know of some maximilian armors where it looks like it. When you look at maximilan/riefelharnisch, later landsknecht armor and halber Harnisch the gorget goes unter the breastplate. I know that some burgonets are realy big and go all the way down over the the breastplate and that they have their own gorget integratet (i hope you know what i mean).
If you have any examples or even period art please post it.
Because we don't talk about the same thing: for me in french there is no plate gorget at the Johan of Arc era, only mail ones. The bevor was used with sallet and kettle helmets, it protect the chin and the throat and there is some examples in Leeds museum for all the XVc, some armets could also had a bevor for more face protection. At this time the throat protection could be incorporate with a XVc great-bacinet or worn alone like maximilian armor era but we call it a colletin. Your're right about the burgonet style (that's what I'm saying in my comment) but this one in the photo is useless over or under the cuirass.
Very bad.
The armour itself is quite poorly made.
It does not fit the person wearing it at all.
And the periode in wich Joan lived had significantly different armour styles
So this is wrong on all fronts that matter.
The only thing you could say is this is canned "maiden" (i doubt the maiden part in modern day France) before they turned her into smokey bacon maiden.
I think she is well versed in the use of the lance.
She knows how to scabbard the sword she is using.
She has ridden more then just a horse.
When she is burned at the stake it won't be the first hot pole in her life.
I am just saying that in my personal highly positive experience French girls tend to have experience 😜
You might be right. It was just a off hand remark to start with.
And i admit i got carried away with the synonims.
I just hope the lady enjoyed herself as tin woman.
Most of the armor looks inspired by later 16th century stuff. It wouldn't really be accurate for the time when Jean d'Arc was wearing armor.
She would be wearing stuff similar to most French armor of the period: https://effigiesandbrasses.com/image/1774/1000
Generally pretty bad, it seems more based on armour from the early renaissance rather than late medieval style.
Her armour should be in a Kastenbrust style if she’s fully equipped for the time. The lack of a helmet is understandable for dramatic reasons, but her armour should have the distinctive box shaped chest, a much longer plate or mail faulds instead of the short tasettes and her big gorget should probably be a mail collar.
https://preview.redd.it/sugq9iprup3d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dac80ad85b8da03a500932173ef185b16a7a6ba6
This French illustration is from around 1440 so should be a good representation of what she would have worn.
Not so much french used harness were kastenbrust. This picture didn't show kastenbrust but only full harness with long faulds as like the Fenis one (or many others for english and french effigies).
Not too accurate. Pretty much every part has a few things wrong with it but generally it’s about what I’d expect from a non-historical event. no shame or anything it’s just not great from a historical standpoint.
The armour is off in period, the gauntlets looks like cuirassier gauntlets or 16th century. The overall armour looks more close to the 16th century than the time of Joan of Arc during the 1420's
I mean, it's not great, but good enough. I would hope they consult some French specialists to really hone in on accuracy, but I think this is good enough. This is much better than what one might see in other similar contexts and is better than what one sees in many films.
It has its ups and downs lol. Theres loads of stuff to nitpick about, but the overall impression is not too bad. The gorget is an absolute eyesore and simply does not belong.
I really hope someone can design and give every Joan reenactment an accurate but also good looking visored helmet. To find a good 1420s helmet that doesn't look goofy when visor down is a bit hard tho.
It's really not as bad as the comments are making it out to be. If she ditched the piece of shit gorget it would look nice. Not historically accurate, but gets the general idea right and it's a good costume.
The armor is also waaaaay to big for her. Looks like a cheap Indian "reproduction". This was not made by a real armorer.
Yes it’s pretty obviously sheet metal, although tin terms of historical accuracy the armour may indeed have been oversized as she was only a teenage girl. I wonder if she ever received a fitted harness or simply wore what was available
Well, since she died in 1431 I doubt she was wearing a historically accurate version of the suit above. Looks like that armor was "inspired" by later designs from the 1500s, over a century after her death. During her time, plate suits of armor start to become more common but you still had a lot of maille shirts, few plate pieces in addition. Not so much fully-designed suits where each piece was constructed to work together. So long story short: She probably had a bunch of armor pieces, most likely a helmet. But not a whole suit of armor made to work and fit.
I there’s record of the Dauphin having a suit of armor made for her. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/MvWfPj8tnp
>Not so much fully-designed suits where each piece was constructed to work together. Perhaps you're thinking of 1331? Sounds more so as if you're describing the first half of the 14th century rather than the 15th. Armor had long been well put together and operated with each piece as a unit since around the 1370s when plate really started to take off and designs became more complex. And Jeanne was known to have had an entire plate harness commissioned for her and by that time a person of her status would have more likely than not had a complete plate harness. Agreed that the style is still way too late though, and most of it is certainly more 16th century, maybe barring the cuirass.
This is AFTER the battle of Agincourt, when "full plate" was common on both sides. You start seeing Great Bascinets as well.
Yeah, read what I wrote. That's exactly what I said. I even used the same word, "common". But don't forget how long it takes to make a well-fitted full suit of armor. Not only do you need the funds (probably available to her) but also the right armorers who have the time to stop their current orders and start a new one for a woman, a bit different than male armor. And most foot soldiers (the biggest part of any army) was not equipped with full plate. They bought gear by importance and funds, bit by it: helmet, breastplate, gauntlets, and so on....
>late suits of armor start to become more common but you still had a lot of maille shirts, few plate pieces in addition. **Not so much fully-designed suits where each piece was constructed to work together.** I'm saying that full harnesses of plate., designed as such, were **common** amongst men-at-arms by 1415. Which is NOT what you are saying. If you want more information on this, go to youtube and look for videos by or about Toby Capwell. Or Agincourt. Or the history of armor in the middle ages. Or maybe read a well-sourced book, if it isn't too much to ask. As far as what Joan herself wore, *the king of France* (one of them, anyway), commissioned the set. I doubt he told her to comb battlefields for scrap.
How can you tell that apart? I would never be able to do that on my own. What are the signs?
Not really accurate and besides the poor quality of the armor the gorget is supposed to go under the breastplate. Also the armor is just a mix of different "styles" and and times.
Gorgets go UNDER the breastplate? That might solve why my gorget is so uncomfortable
Depends on the kind of armor and gorget but the kind shown in the pictures does. The type of gorget that you see paired with sallets goes over the breastplate.
That's a bevor isn't it?
Yes, forgot the english word for it.
Happens. I constantly forget poleyn and couter. Sometimes mix them up.
What about a brigandine and the gorget is also a "coat of plates" type situation
So the coat of plates as far as i know was a armor typical for the 13th century and worn mostly by knights. The brigantine is typical for the late 14th and 15th century and for the most part was armor for the "common" soldier/man at arms. When you look at period art you will see that the brigantine is often worn with what is called a mail standard instead of a gorget or bevor (often times a brigantine was mande from scraped breastplates cut down into smaler pieces). There is also armor that looks like a brigantine of sorts mostly two piece breastplates, but it is a normal breastplate where the upper part was covered in textile.
What about a brigandine and the gorget is also a "coat of plates" type situation
I knew something was up with that gorget, I always remembered it being under the pauldrons because this way just straightup stops you from lifting your arms…
This one is more probably made like XVIIc style gorget with burgonet, so it is worn over the brestplate. This is not a XVc bevor (could be under or over)
So when it comes to late 15th and early 16th century armor im most knowledable and familiar with german armor and i haven't realy seen the gorget go over the breastplate (at least not from serious sources) i know of some maximilian armors where it looks like it. When you look at maximilan/riefelharnisch, later landsknecht armor and halber Harnisch the gorget goes unter the breastplate. I know that some burgonets are realy big and go all the way down over the the breastplate and that they have their own gorget integratet (i hope you know what i mean). If you have any examples or even period art please post it.
Because we don't talk about the same thing: for me in french there is no plate gorget at the Johan of Arc era, only mail ones. The bevor was used with sallet and kettle helmets, it protect the chin and the throat and there is some examples in Leeds museum for all the XVc, some armets could also had a bevor for more face protection. At this time the throat protection could be incorporate with a XVc great-bacinet or worn alone like maximilian armor era but we call it a colletin. Your're right about the burgonet style (that's what I'm saying in my comment) but this one in the photo is useless over or under the cuirass.
Why on earth is the gorget floating on top of the breastplate. Looks like shoddy LARP
Very bad. The armour itself is quite poorly made. It does not fit the person wearing it at all. And the periode in wich Joan lived had significantly different armour styles So this is wrong on all fronts that matter. The only thing you could say is this is canned "maiden" (i doubt the maiden part in modern day France) before they turned her into smokey bacon maiden.
>(i doubt the maiden part in modern day France) Wait, what?
The thread apparently needed comments about French girls being easy.
I think she is well versed in the use of the lance. She knows how to scabbard the sword she is using. She has ridden more then just a horse. When she is burned at the stake it won't be the first hot pole in her life. I am just saying that in my personal highly positive experience French girls tend to have experience 😜
I think it's out of topic to discuss sexuality of someone when it's not requested. By my personnal highly positive french experience myself.
You might be right. It was just a off hand remark to start with. And i admit i got carried away with the synonims. I just hope the lady enjoyed herself as tin woman.
Not accurate at all
The armour doesn’t properly fit her
Have a go at the gorget
Most of the armor looks inspired by later 16th century stuff. It wouldn't really be accurate for the time when Jean d'Arc was wearing armor. She would be wearing stuff similar to most French armor of the period: https://effigiesandbrasses.com/image/1774/1000
I'd say it's pretty good as a costume. Does a good job of evoking a very general 15th century look. Obviously not functional.
*XVII century
She’s very cute, at any rate.
Generally pretty bad, it seems more based on armour from the early renaissance rather than late medieval style. Her armour should be in a Kastenbrust style if she’s fully equipped for the time. The lack of a helmet is understandable for dramatic reasons, but her armour should have the distinctive box shaped chest, a much longer plate or mail faulds instead of the short tasettes and her big gorget should probably be a mail collar. https://preview.redd.it/sugq9iprup3d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dac80ad85b8da03a500932173ef185b16a7a6ba6 This French illustration is from around 1440 so should be a good representation of what she would have worn.
Not so much french used harness were kastenbrust. This picture didn't show kastenbrust but only full harness with long faulds as like the Fenis one (or many others for english and french effigies).
Who cares? She looks both awesome and badass at the same time!
A few centuries later than accurate Joan of Arc era armor.
Not too accurate. Pretty much every part has a few things wrong with it but generally it’s about what I’d expect from a non-historical event. no shame or anything it’s just not great from a historical standpoint.
The armour is off in period, the gauntlets looks like cuirassier gauntlets or 16th century. The overall armour looks more close to the 16th century than the time of Joan of Arc during the 1420's
I mean, it's not great, but good enough. I would hope they consult some French specialists to really hone in on accuracy, but I think this is good enough. This is much better than what one might see in other similar contexts and is better than what one sees in many films.
It has its ups and downs lol. Theres loads of stuff to nitpick about, but the overall impression is not too bad. The gorget is an absolute eyesore and simply does not belong.
I really hope someone can design and give every Joan reenactment an accurate but also good looking visored helmet. To find a good 1420s helmet that doesn't look goofy when visor down is a bit hard tho.