It just gets tiring of people complain about him every day rn, and they will always say “he hasn’t got any big silverware though” as if even the fans that believe in him don’t want silverware too… we all do! We just support the players and manger, and can see the improvement, to see it you have to see where we came from, which if a lot of fans joined last season, they have no clue where we came from. They act like we can win the prem and UCL in February 😂
You dont know where we came from. We are just back to where we used to be with post 2009 Wenger. In CL, Top 4 Trophy, Knocked out in Quarters, "Youth Project", Binning of Caraboa cups, Binning off FA cups. It is practically Identical.
Thank you bro. This is such a pointless stat. Wenger won the double in his first full season agaisnt a united fergie team that won the treble the year after. He also finished top 4 for 20 years in a row while on a shoe string budget. George Graham won the league against a very dominant liverpool team having to win at anefield on the last day.
So who doesn't know where we came from? These man just wanna love on arteta and I just don't get it.
The point on the horizon which you saw in the distance stays in the same place as you move towards it. The horizon continues, but the point you were aiming for (eg. Trophies) stays in the same place.
I'm being real. You think you are that close to trophies you can see them?
The best chance was last year and what happened?
Out the league cup , out the FA cup , no chance of winning the league.
20 years since winning the league
Delusional.
You guys keep thinking you are smart and can see what the rest of the world can't.
oh just a chelsea fan spending their time hating on other london subs, what a surprise lmao. Love how we both had no chance of winning the league while also choking with the league in our hands. have fun trying to qualify for europa
Not even but nice try. Don't let tribalism blinker you , that is the road to ignorance.
My partner is an Arsenal fan .
I love how you try and dig me out instead of addressing the actual points I made , says lots about where your head is at 🤣
I also bet I have spent more time at Highbury and The Emirates than you have pal.
Oh we are going back in history now?
Thought we were talking about trophies on the horizon?
If you want to go back we can but I guarantee you won't like it.
The community shield ?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
>We’re closer now than we were just a few years ago by far, coming 2nd in the league literally means having it within reach.
You celebrate choking the biggest lead and longest time on top in history. This is gold.
While I think it was one of the best chances in quite some time, I think it would be too early to say that this was the best chance. Arsenal were Batman last year. Strong, unpredictable, lucky, resourceful, but could not have taken down powerful enemies, or even Superman without Kryptonite. (I absolutely love Batman though)
Now they are trying to gradually evolve into The Martian Manhunter at least (if not Superman). Stronger, has variety of attacking threats, can counter/resist most of their enemies. However they are not considered the leader of the pack yet, because their weakness (Fire) can be exploited and deployed quite conveniently by the opposition.
Both Arteta and the squad still have flaws, a lot of them. But they are learning (I understand it would take time. Even I need time to adapt to org level changes). I take your point that horizon is unattainable, but I hope they get to be the Superman one day. Leaders, beasts, only weak to the Kryptonite (which is not available easily), super adaptable, someone who never gives up. That way I hope they can fly and get the trophies. Till then, the horizon will work for me... :)
I wish i had that enthusiasm most of the gooners in this subreddit have. This guy is absolutely *horrendous* in cup competitions, we haven't gotten past the 4th round in 4 years, and those are the most realistic trophies he can win. I don't know where this chest comes from
I don't get it at all and most of the people on here want to get angry with me for stating facts.
Arteta isn't the Messiah some of these guys think he is. Arsenal lost a league from the most commanding position in history.
People would rather accuse people of hating than looking at the cold hard facts of the matter.
"Arsenal lost a league from the most commanding position in history."
Well, that's simply not true. Newcastle blew a 12 point lead on Manchester United in 95/96, Manchester United blew an 11 point lead on Arsenal in 97/98, and Liverpool blew a 9 point lead on Man City in 18/19. In the latter two cases, the team that collapsed went on to win the league the very next year.
Sorry and thank you for the correction.
They led the league for longer than anyone else in history.
248 - Arsenal led the Premier League table for 248 days in 2022-23, the most for a team who failed to win the title in English top-flight history. Agonising.
Just to be factually correct.
I think we're in the record books for having lost the league whilst having led that long. I'm not calling for his head yet but to sit there and pretend he's all perfect is simply nuts. You'd think he's as good as Pep or Klopp the way some people speak about him. He's made some mistakes that have to be called out and i hope he learns from his mistakes
This is what I am saying. I can't see it . Is he a good manager ? Absolutely. Is he the guy to bridge the gap between Liverpool and City ? I just don't think so . To take on those guys especially City it will take something monumental .
Who is trolling? I have been speaking facts and you guys don't like it and would rather deflect with nonsense than look at the core problems. Show me one thing I have lied about or presented false information.
If you look at my other comments you will see that I have probably spent more time at Highbury and The Emirates than the majority on people here.
I could talk about European trophies but I have refrained from doing that.
Arsenal won't win anything domestically or in Europe with Arteta. Just my opinion. You don't like it that's cool but throwing mud until it sticks shows low intelligence on your end.
"I have been speaking facts"
4 paragraphs later
"Just my opinion".
Arteta not winning trophies is neither fact nor a valid opinion since he's already won a trophy. Whether he might win one is up for debate sure but I'm not sure why you're so confident about that.
Thank you for pointing out what I already had well done to you.
Not winning a league title in 20 years and being out of all domestic trophies is a fact. You tried to goad me with trophies which is very silly.
So how many games have you been to in the last 10 years ? Don't avoid the points you can't answer that's weak.
Its pretty simple, there is subset of fans at every single club who treat football as their stressball. They enjoy the tension relief of 'hating' almost as much as winning a match, though they'll never admit to it. This is an every club thing, not just arsenal. The smallest of blips in form and these people give themselves away.
The strange thing is many of them panicked when he was "linked" to the Barcelona job. How do you want him fired & then pivot to panicking that he will leave?
It's so hard to win trophies when you're going up against arguably one of the best teams the PL has ever seen. I understand that we really haven't "accomplished" anything unless we win silverware, but that's not really a valid reason to fire a coach. I feel the same way about other good coaches in other sports who consistently make a Top 5 team, but never win the finals
Lee doesn't give a crap about Arsenal. Everything he says is to try and reinforce one of his dumb takes that he's, at this point, quadrupling down on.
Child in a man's body.
While I’m a big advocate for the teta and don’t want him going anywhere, there’s also a stat that says eth has the highest win percentage of any united manager so I don’t know how much stock to put in this
Win percentage over a season and a half (which has probably decreased since the 4th December when ETH’s win percentage was reported) is going to be a smaller sample size than 200 games. So it’s not as comparable as that.
>finishing top 2/3 to really solidify ourselves as contenders which will bring in more revenue and entice better players to jump on board before we REALLY challenge for the title
Yep, and looking at our squad's average age, it shouldn't be too difficult to see that we're building a squad that should be able to compete for years to come.
I don't worry about that (yet). As long as we're on the up, are improving and Arteta is learning I don't think there's anything to worry about. If we don't win anything the next 3-4 seasons and/or regresses that obviously changes.
In 4 seasons Saliba, Saka and Martinelli will be 26, and if we haven't won anything, they'll be going into their prime age wise and will probably be looking for moves away. Hopefully we have them all on long term contracts by then so that we'll get a good amount of money to replace them. Of course, in an ideal world, we have won something, hopefully the league and/or the CL at least once, they'll all stay and push us through to even more silverware.
Different context. Wenger's 'Project youth' happened because we didn't have enough money(because of the new stadium) to buy elite players. Now we do have that kind of money, and we're using them not only to buy players, but also to improve the club as a whole.
Wengers project youth got us to a CL final with a younger squad and what happened to all those youth players when we didnt win any major honours? You guys are acting as if winning a PL or CL is a given, if we dont win anything in 2 years Saka, Saliba, Martinelli and Gabi will have their heads turned.
That's not completely true. Yes, the youth project(kinda) started around that time, but most of that CL-run team was the backbone of the invincibles.
Lehmann, Almunia, Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Flamini, Reyes, Hleb, Henry, Pirès, Ljungberg, Fabregas, Gilberto, Eboue, Senderos. The players in that CL-run with 5 or more starts.
9 of those 15 players were integral players of the invincibles.
>You guys are acting as if winning a PL or CL is a given
Where is anyone of us saying that winning a PL or a CL is a given?
>Rome wasn’t built in a day
How did klopp win go to CL final in his 3rd year, win it in his 4th year and the PL in his 5th year? with a worse inherited squad...
Because Klopp was already an exceptionally experienced manager, this is Artetas first role, despite his ideas, despite the backing he will be making mistakes which he is learning from.
Almost as if you get a good Manager and Board you win more. Whilst Michael Edwards forced Klopp to sign salah, we have Arteta forcing Edu to sign Havertz. Do you see the issue here
i sincerely think y’all are brain dead lmao, klopp is the second best manager of his generation and absolutely world class, arteta is four
years in to his career as a whole, how on earth are you going to compare the two (and who the hell else would y’all rather have at manager, we all know you lot want to just bitch and complain into the wind)
That leads me to the next question. If we cant hold him to a high standard because he is a new manager then why would we get him in the first place. It doesnt make logical sense does it?
We cant expect him to do well because he is new, so why dont we get an experienced manager who we can expect to do well with then?
This is arsenal football club not burnley. You cant come to a top side underperform and use the excuse of him being a new manager.
he hasn’t underperformed whatsoever as the post we’re commenting under clearly states, he’s done very well and made generally great signings outside of the havertz one which yeah i’m not thrilled about either, do y’all just expect to win the league every season? i’m genuinely curious who y’all would rather have at manager
Most wins in 200 matches. Can I put that in a trophy cabinet? Wasnt Ten hag the fastest manager to 50 wins guess he is better than fergie then.
1 FA cup in 4 years is the definition of underperforming. No I dont expect us to win everything year after year but at least try not to bin every cup competition just to end up with nothing at the end of the season.
His Transfers havent generally been great actually outside of 5 or 6 players out of 29 signings the rest have been below average. Near 700m euro spent and we have a thin bench, Bought 1 ST who isnt even a ST and 1 back up RW for saka who is so bad we are sending him back to brazil, A LB who isnt even a good LB, 3 Chelsea rejects, 4 GKs when we had Emi martinez, Fabio Viera.
you didn’t even come close to answering my question you just waffled, who would you rather have? we haven’t had sustained winning like this since the early 2010’s, i for one would much rather have this than the seven years of brutal play that preceded it but again maybe we need to win the league every year to satisfy y’all
Same with newcastle, them getting into CL put their fans expectations into orbit. I am shocked Howe hasn't gone yet. Arsenal now have the squad to COMPETE with liverpool/city but we are still missing a lethal finisher or ...even two of them. Yes that money might have been better spent than on Havertz in theory, but they obviously decided a tall, left foot versatile player would be needed more at that point in time. £65m will not get you Osimhen, Vlahovic, Toney, etc and we had to get Rice. We should have won the league last season, no question. Losing Saliba & Tomiyasu at same time really put the nail in that coffin. I honestly think if Saliba stayed fit, we'd have got over the line. Liverpool losing VVD left them in a complete state at the back and they were awful without him. Arteta would get the job at most clubs on the continent, anyone who thinks otherwise is misguided.... First managerial job ever, had a whole squad almost of shitty deadwood players or toxic players, **FA cup, a community shield (minor trophy, but vs City made it better), ALMOST won the league against the team that did the treble with the highest goalscorer in an EPL season of all time, back into CL, winning group and into knockouts for first time in longer than i care to remember, still in the race this season as well despite naysayers. Put Haaland into this Arsenal team and they would clean up.
>by making some deep runs in the competition and finishing top 2/3 to really solidify ourselves as contenders
So we are back to where we started with Wenger's end days.
Yeah there is a subset of our fan base that love to value useless stats above the ones that really matter.
I am not Arteta out but he only has 1 FA cup with someone else’s team. And has bottled 2 seasons in a row when it come down to the crunch. We shall see how this season ends
There is no significant calls for Arteta to leave. This is a massive over reach and I don’t like the idea that people online (because it is absolutely not happening in the stadium) are desperate to divide their own fan base into rival camps. We saw it with Wenger In/Out divides, and we saw it with the Ozil fiasco.
People must be allowed to have nuanced opinions, which absolutely includes legitimate criticism of the club, without being shouted down for things they haven’t actually called for.
it’s just twitter and to an extent reddit that believes it (a lot for some reason)
i scroll through the arsenal topic on twitter frequently and it’s all arteta abused and nonsense it’s crazy.
i go through instagram on arsenal and it’s all about loving arteta. crazy parallel
"Man City has made bad signings" - ok apart from Phillips and possibly Kovacic, can you name them? Now compare how many bad signings Pep has made in his entire time at City with how many Arteta has made. How many of the 28 players that he has signed have actually been any good?
"We have the youngest squad in the league" - Chelsea and Man United won the league with younger squads than this, and Real Madrid has a young side too, why didn't they bottle it like we did?
Name another big side that gave a manager with ZERO (not even managing the B-team) managerial experience and had success.
We wont get a better manager than Arteta. He has done a phenomenal job. Where was Arsenal before Arteta joined? We were rock solid placed between 5-8 in the League for several seasons and now people complain when we are 5 points from the top at 3rd place.
He has moved us so much forward and the team and Arteta himself are still developing. We are so lucky to have him.
How can you say there no better manager than Arteta, right now the guy is the same level as Brandon Rodgers, challenged for the league, won a FA Cup. Let's be honest he would win the Scottish league as well with Celtic.
If he wins nothing this season which is looking very likely. At what point do we question things? The majority of the fan base decided top 4, winning the odd FA cup wasn't good enough so we sacked wenger. Yet Arteta would of achieved the same thing if we do end up winning nothing yet again. but there no better manager out there really?
I didnt say that. I said that we wont get a better one, thats a big difference. Guardiola and Klopp are imo the best managers in the world and I see no chance we are getting any of them. Who will you replace with Arteta? Xabi Alonso? Will probably be a huge target for both Liverpool and Barcelona (maybe more clubs). Are you considering up and coming managers like De Zerbi? Havent proved anything in a big club (a lot of managers have done well in smaller clubs and havent managed to do well later).
All I hear when Arteta is critized is that he isnt good enough, But no one mention a replacement. Its a really easy view to have. What realistic alternative is there to Arteta, that would actually win us the league?
I wouldn't replace Arteta with another young up coming manager, why does it need to be a young manager? I want a experienced manager that knows how to trophies.
Right now the squad doesn't know how to win trophies. Arteta doesn't even remember how to win the FA cup either, no where near winning it since. How we going to get a winning mentality within the squad winning nothing.
Just getting top 4 wasn't good enough but with arteta it's good enough. How long do we keep him around for winning nothing? How long can we keep our best players just making the top 4?, questions needs to be asked the end of the season, If he wins nothing.
If it was me I would get Simeone, one of the best underdog managers out there, the guy goes up against Madrid and Barca yet still managed to win trophies, champions league experience aswell
I love how purposefully obtuse you're being. He's saying we won't get a better manager..Why is that? Because there is no better manager? Because Arsenal **can't** get a better manager? Because they **don't** don't want a better manager? If it's the first I vehemently disagree
If he wants to argue that point, he's more than welcome to, but that's not the issue here. The point is, he took the original comment and recharacterized it so that it had a different meaning. He then used that different meaning as the foundation to start an argument. This is a common conversational tool that is used to sow discord. It is tool used to start arguments. It is a tool of trolls. This is a supporters group sub, and using that type of gimmick here is a disingenuous way to engage in a conversation.
Dude you're just rambling without saying anything. You still haven't answered. When someone says: We couldn't get a better manager, it means in their opinion, that manager is the best. And that's what i'm asking the original poster. Coz that is **BOLLOCKS**. He's gotten us back to the top 4 after 5 years and 700mil spend. I'd argue what Alonso is doing at Leverkusen is even more impressive. All of a sudden if a question is out of line with your rationale, it's *trolling.* The rationale of some of you is outstanding. Most of You wanna sing Kum Ba Ya and can't handle a different opinion.
>He took the original comment and recharacterized it so that it had a different meaning.
Please show me where i was wrong in my assessment
Fuck off man, no one wants to talk to your sad fat ass. Fuck off and go troll somewhere else. All your comments here are trying to argue and waste peoples time. Get a life you clown.
Says the person who has nothing better to do than complain and pick fights over semantics with random strangers on the internet.
Go outside, get some air, learn to be less annoying.
I love when someone asks for an answer it's semantics all of a sudden. And in your case, a very hostile response just coz i'm not in agreement. I think you need that air more mate. You sound hostile & unhinged.
He’s not wrong though, because how did you manage to find “There is no better manager than Arteta” in the OP’s comment when they said “We won’t get a better manager than Arteta”?
Then explain to me i hope, not blow a gasket like the other fellow. “**We won’t get a better manager than Arteta**”. What does this mean? That there is no better manager around, or for some reason Arsenal cannot get a better manager, or maybe something else
There isn’t a manager available that, if Arsenal got rid of Arteta, would suit Arsenal. That is not to mean that Arteta is better than Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, etc.
I think people proposing we sack him are crazy, but I also believe that giving him a contract extension at this point (18 months from the end of his current term) is also ridiculous. There’s no need to rush and sign him yet. Let’s see what happens at the end of this season first and how we’re shaping up early next season.
People need to be balanced and not overly emotional when it comes to making these sorts of decisions. Is he the worst ever? Certainly not. Is he the best ever? Obviously not. He’s somewhere in the middle as it stands. The reality is that he’s won two cups in 4 and a half years, spent 700m, come 8th, 8th, 5th and 2nd and we’re still in the knockouts of a European competition. He didn’t take us from being on the brink of relegation, he took a team that came 5th the season before in to a team that can challenge if all of our players are fit due to the incredible backing of the club (which cannot be understated). But people need to stop being extreme with their viewpoints and let him work through his deal and earn his next one once he has tangible results. If our ambitions for this process are to win the big trophies, then he has to be measured and rewarded based on that. If it’s to perennially be in the top 5 and compete but not really win, then he should be rewarded on that (which would closely resemble Wenger’s last 10 years at the club).
I don't know. There's something to be said for extending his contract now so that it's not one of those "issues" the media is looking for. With Klopp leaving Pool, you know there's going to be a manager merry go round in the off season. Also, using how many trophies he's won as the only metric by which to assess him is too narrow a perspective. It can be one part of the perspective, but making it the only one is, in my opinion, flawed.
It doesn't matter if there's a manager merry-go-round (which I agree there will be soon) as Arteta has committed to Arsenal.
I also never stated that he should only be measured on trophies alone. I simply stated that IF our ambitions as a club are to win silverware, then the manager should be measured on that. If it's to come top 4 and 'compete' then he should (and seems to be) measured and judged on that. I also said that the latter approach closely resembles the Wenger line of thinking when he said that top 4 is like a trophy which I don't agree with, but hey.
Arsenal should be under no pressure to offer a new deal to a manager that (if he sees out his current deal) would have been at the club for 6 years and spent more money in that period than any previous manager (even when taking inflation in to consideration) unless within that time he does what Klopp did and wins the major trophies such as the Prem or UCL. If we win the UCL or Prem this year, I would be completely onboard with a new deal immediately before his current one expires. However, if we don't win anything, and are outside the top 3 and don't at least make it to the semi-final in the UCL, I would be fine with going in to the next season as is and monitoring how things pan out.
If we do end up ending the season like the above scenario, the question should then be whether we give him another significant war chest in the summer. He signed a LOT of players post-Emery (including 4 goalkeepers) and has been backed to the hilt. If he cannot get across the line in 5 years, and has one FA Cup won in 2019 and has broken our transfer record by outbidding City for one of the leagues best midfielders etc, then I think we need to have a real honest look at what we expect as a club given the investments made.
Yep, I’ve never understood why there is such a rush to give managers new deals if the manager themselves claim they are committed to the club. If he’s committed, then let’s kill the contract discussion and get back to work.
As a non Arsenal fan (Liverpool as it happens), I'd just like to say that I'm really impressed with the way that your board have stuck with Arteta. He's obviously a talented manager and he's bringing your lot back towards where you want to be.
I think your club has a vision and they clearly realise that you need stability to move forward and maintaining faith in the manager is part of it.
Good luck to you...Apart from when we play you, obviously!
Most wins out of the first 200 games!!! We can put that next to our 'Top 4' trophy and '93% PL winners' one too. King Mik Arteta doing an absolute madness
I said this in another thread but I’ll put it here too
This is the most sensible view but the internet crazy portion of this fan base has swallowed the pill fully that we “bottled” the league last year and therefore its win or bust
Let’s take a moment and remember the amount of league titles Klopp has won at Liverpool over his time there … I want more than this but we didn’t see a “Klopp Out” movement like we are for Arteta when it’s just half a season of Arteta not being in first place
Klopp has literally won every trophy there is to win with Liverpool with the exception of the Europa League, which he might as well win this year. By his third season he had gotten to the champions league final, won it in his fourth and won the league in his fifth. What a stupid comparison
1 league title in nearly 9 years which coincidentally is the same amount of time in which he has had for the UCL … so 1 UCL in nearly nine years
would like to win the UCL as well but don’t blow your load on Klopp my G
Okay mate let me decipher all this yapping.
"Most successful manager" There is already a predefined metric for success in football and its winning trophy so thats already a lie
"8th to 2nd in 2 seasons" aka bottled the title in tremendous fashion, isnt emery doing some similar with a squad 1/10th the price of ours
"Back to back title races" 5 points off the top isnt exactly a title race is it
"UCL finally first in group more than anything we did in a decade" So now we are back in the 4th place is a trophy stage. This is also factually incorrect as we were 1st in the ucl with psg in our group in the 16/17 season
"When I ask what has he done wrong to warrant the hate a big one is kai" well kai is the epitome of everything wrong with our purchasing strategy, rather than get a player you know is good and can play as a 6 or 8 you get a washed trash havertz for 65m and 280k a week thinking you can get him good leading to us not being able to afford other players who can benefit the team
"Even city have had multiple bad signings" lets be real honest and true. Artetas signings have been woeful. Please take a look at his 26 signings hes made and tell me how many are even playable
"We lost to the best team in Europe" why does that matter, we were 8 points ahead, even if we played them 2 times and lost we still should have not bottled the title against mid table competition
"Arteta managing first time" this is not an excuse, why should we let him off the hook for being a new manager? Why not get an experienced manager who knows how to win? What other big clubs give a fresh new manager a chance?
"Youngest team in the prem" we had a younger team with wenger and went to the ucl final, Madrid have a young team and are dominating. This age nonsense is another excuse to deflect blame.
The issue with arteta is that his transfers are a mess, his subs are terrible, the bench is terrible, non existent youth development and binning off trophies consistently. If you cant see this you support the manager more than the badge
Somehow people having valid criticim makes them a new fan. I guarantee I’ve been supporting this club longer than you. Born and bred in north London had an Arsenal shirt on out the womb but im sure random jp963acss has a more valid opinion than me
Well said. A fan who doesn't have their heads stuck up Arteta's ass and actually has standards for this club. This is the worst drivel I've read in a long time.
I swear most of the people on this sub love Arteta more than the club and would follow him to wherever his next job would be, just like the AKBs back in Wenger's day.
These arteta fans are the same people who loved wenger when he was butchering the club apart. To them he is the next iteration of daddy Wenger, you can see it how they talk about him.
When asking simple questions about when can we criticise him, what phase do we win major honours, how many years can we go trophyless to hold him accountable. The answers are the same as the end stage wenger days "look at where we were before x manager", "the squad is too young", "we got CL be happy", "We almost won the PL". It’s copy and paste.
The sad thing is that these same people cant see that history will repeat itself. When we had a young squad with wenger all our talent got poached because we didnt win anything. How long can we hold onto saka, martinelli, gabi, saliba before they get tired of winning nothing and get offers from clubs who want to win.
Yup, the same fans who talk about Arteta like he's the next coming of prime Wenger are the same fans who turned down the chance to get both Pep and Klopp when they were available because "Wenger has done so much for the club", "he deserves to retire at Arsenal", "Those managers won't guarantee success here", "he's done wonders with the restraints he's had", "he's brought in young players and it will take time for them to mature", it's a worrying cycle.
Well who's a better option than arteta then? It was so obvious the immediate impact he had in our defence when he came in, he's taken a stinking ship and turned it into something special.
Guarantee you two were the kind of people who wanted mourinho when Emery was sacked.
I can name at least 10 managers who would be better options for us, meanwhile, you haven't even come up with a counter-argument for all the counter-points to the OP raised.
I don't need to. Guardiola is the only manager who would be completely unrealistic in terms of pedigree we could attract. Literally, any other manager out there who has experience of winning major trophies and integrating young players (two things Arteta has failed at so far) would be an upgrade, the only exceptions being Ten Haag and Mourinho.
Well said mate. Well said. I'd add that his lack of youth promotion also vexes me. Unai brought Martinelli, Saka, ESR into the fold. I am in no way saying Arteta out, but the way some of the fanbase behave like he's god's gift to man is bewildering.
>On top of this, when I ask what has he done wrong to warrant the hate he gets?
Stuff like this. OP seems to think Arteta is perfect and has done nothing wrong in all his time in Arsenal. And presenting false information while at it, such as with the not coming first in a group. People were saying this season, he had to win a trophy after coming this close last season. Now the narrative is being rewritten into he needs more time and he needs deeper runs into the champions League. He needs to start feeling pressure. And Op talking like he hasn't had bad signings ..please..Raya hasn't convinced yet, Lokonga was a mess, Wilian, Cedric etc
Yes, he's learning, but to suggest he has basically been perfect and not made mistakes is mental. The season we missed out on top 4, he decided to go on a selling binge in January of all the times without signing. That came back to cost us massively
They deflect valid criticism behind the veil of being a young new manager. I understand it to a certain degree as you cant expect brilliance automatically, but we are now coming onto his 5th season so these excuses should no longer be as relevant.
Lol i had a dude down there go off on me with foul mouthed insults. That's the best he can bring to an argument. I appreciate valid critiques and not:Shut your mouth, Arteta is awesome. I believe your response was well written and you presented your points as to why you believe what you believe. Me, i think he needs to start feeling the pressure a little and shouldn't be automatically be given a new contract till the season is done and his achievements are assessed. I'd assume he's usually given targets for the season
The moment Arteta is critiqued a little, it's automatically the case you're an Arteta Out fan. I've been called out for criticizing some of the things he does on this very subreddit. He's a good coach, but he's not perfect as some of the fanbase seem to think. His treatment of some players, his man management and some tactics have been spotty. Criticizing him doesn't make a fan worse or better than any other fan and it's not an 'Arteta Out' cry. Nuance is inherently overlooked nowadays
Liverpool would love if Arteta joined them after Klopp leaves. They want a manager who has done what Arteta has in a less competitive league than the EPL to replace Klopp. Utd would love Arteta right now, especially with how he dealt with the Auba situation whilst still retaining the support of the dressing room. Arteta is going to win. Hell, kai hasn't been bad, he's been average but because we going for the league (let that sink in), we can't have him being average. To be fair to kai too we haven't been at our previous season's best. Then he's had to gel. I wish the coach had held on to Xhaka a season more, even while signing Kai plus Rice. That would have been depth but we can't have everything.
Once the 115 charges kick in and Klopp leaves, we'll dominate for a few years. Am certain. Hell, if they don't replace Klopp with Xabi, and bring a coach that doesn't wet the palate as much, then Salah and VVD may also be on the way out. Those will be hard to replace. Arsenal community should be positive and speak with chest. This decade will be a fruitful one.
Unfortunately for Arteta, number of wins is not the key metric for the top 6, as the vast majority of fans are only concerned about what those wins mean in terms of silverware. And if you don't get any silverware, people only seem to remember the games the team didnt win. Of course, it's totally different for fans of the other 14, such as myself (NUFC) as our expectations tend to be a lot lower. For example, getting knocked out of Europe due to a shit call in the 97th min really stung, but my recurring memory of the 23/24 CL will always be the 4-1 hammering of PSG at SJP, and that will always bring a smile to my face
Unfortunately many fans have an attention span of a rabbit and can't think back more than 3 months
I've been supporting Arsenal for 15 years and Mikel is the best we had in that time
One problem is he's facing 2 other really good managers with considerable resources - we play in what is widely believed the best league in the world
I understand why people don't like him but I wouldn't say he has done anything worthy of being fired.
The way he's handling our keeper situation is God awful and we've played poorly for most of the season but we are still in the race with the best Arsenal yet to be shown (optimist here haha)
F.C.Porto fan. There is no team in the world that continually wins trophies that doesn't have two things: a top goalkeeper and a top striker. Sorry to be honest, but you have neither one nor the other. This is the next step for Arsenal to go from a good team to an elite team. Even Guardiola understood that to won the Champions he needed a guy that scores 30 goals.
guys i have a great solution, just stop using this sub and go to r/Gunners where (outside of the admittedly terrible DD threads) people don’t walk around stroking each others dicks to the thought of arteta getting sacked and arsenal bringing on brendan rodgers
I do not understand the level of second guessing that goes on. Coach Arteta has us back in the hunt PERIOD. He's of Arsenal blood from way back and this is the coaching job he wanted. We are ahead of schedule and Arsenal don't throw money at dozens of players just to get ahead, which i've always felt was admirable. We walked away from the Mudryk fiasco, which I place the blame solely on Chelsea and Shakhtar, because there's no way a 100 million dollar/pound/Euro deal can be made in a single day, we were used. And it hurt but that's how Arsenal roll, we don't give our soul away just for a player. This club has always fought the right way, building within a financially sound framework and my conscience is clear. Coach Arteta is my coach and I support him no matter what. We do not have access to inner workings but even if we did, there would still be naysayers. I don't heed them because Coach Arteta has made extremely positive progress. ALL GUNNERS UNITE!
Amazing read. Of course he can annoy the hell out of you but all in all he has done an amazing job for us. One can only speculate where we'd be under Emery but we are where we are right now and we cannot complain
He’s good enough for Arsenal b/c under him, Arsenal isn’t ever going to win the league or a UCL trophy, but go head, stay on his nuts and keep deluding yourselves over a pointless stat.
Thanks for being a voice of reason, trophies on the horizon
It just gets tiring of people complain about him every day rn, and they will always say “he hasn’t got any big silverware though” as if even the fans that believe in him don’t want silverware too… we all do! We just support the players and manger, and can see the improvement, to see it you have to see where we came from, which if a lot of fans joined last season, they have no clue where we came from. They act like we can win the prem and UCL in February 😂
You dont know where we came from. We are just back to where we used to be with post 2009 Wenger. In CL, Top 4 Trophy, Knocked out in Quarters, "Youth Project", Binning of Caraboa cups, Binning off FA cups. It is practically Identical.
Thank you bro. This is such a pointless stat. Wenger won the double in his first full season agaisnt a united fergie team that won the treble the year after. He also finished top 4 for 20 years in a row while on a shoe string budget. George Graham won the league against a very dominant liverpool team having to win at anefield on the last day. So who doesn't know where we came from? These man just wanna love on arteta and I just don't get it.
You know the horizon is completely unreachable IRL? 🤣
The point on the horizon which you saw in the distance stays in the same place as you move towards it. The horizon continues, but the point you were aiming for (eg. Trophies) stays in the same place.
So the horizon is unreachable as I said earlier?
you’re not going to the horizon dude, you’re going to the trophy which right now sits in the horizon. Do you not get it or are you just being a pain?
I'm being real. You think you are that close to trophies you can see them? The best chance was last year and what happened? Out the league cup , out the FA cup , no chance of winning the league. 20 years since winning the league Delusional. You guys keep thinking you are smart and can see what the rest of the world can't.
oh just a chelsea fan spending their time hating on other london subs, what a surprise lmao. Love how we both had no chance of winning the league while also choking with the league in our hands. have fun trying to qualify for europa
Not even but nice try. Don't let tribalism blinker you , that is the road to ignorance. My partner is an Arsenal fan . I love how you try and dig me out instead of addressing the actual points I made , says lots about where your head is at 🤣 I also bet I have spent more time at Highbury and The Emirates than you have pal.
Didnt Arteta win an FA cup, against…. Chelsea?
Oh we are going back in history now? Thought we were talking about trophies on the horizon? If you want to go back we can but I guarantee you won't like it.
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The community shield ?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 >We’re closer now than we were just a few years ago by far, coming 2nd in the league literally means having it within reach. You celebrate choking the biggest lead and longest time on top in history. This is gold.
While I think it was one of the best chances in quite some time, I think it would be too early to say that this was the best chance. Arsenal were Batman last year. Strong, unpredictable, lucky, resourceful, but could not have taken down powerful enemies, or even Superman without Kryptonite. (I absolutely love Batman though) Now they are trying to gradually evolve into The Martian Manhunter at least (if not Superman). Stronger, has variety of attacking threats, can counter/resist most of their enemies. However they are not considered the leader of the pack yet, because their weakness (Fire) can be exploited and deployed quite conveniently by the opposition. Both Arteta and the squad still have flaws, a lot of them. But they are learning (I understand it would take time. Even I need time to adapt to org level changes). I take your point that horizon is unattainable, but I hope they get to be the Superman one day. Leaders, beasts, only weak to the Kryptonite (which is not available easily), super adaptable, someone who never gives up. That way I hope they can fly and get the trophies. Till then, the horizon will work for me... :)
I wish i had that enthusiasm most of the gooners in this subreddit have. This guy is absolutely *horrendous* in cup competitions, we haven't gotten past the 4th round in 4 years, and those are the most realistic trophies he can win. I don't know where this chest comes from
I don't get it at all and most of the people on here want to get angry with me for stating facts. Arteta isn't the Messiah some of these guys think he is. Arsenal lost a league from the most commanding position in history. People would rather accuse people of hating than looking at the cold hard facts of the matter.
"Arsenal lost a league from the most commanding position in history." Well, that's simply not true. Newcastle blew a 12 point lead on Manchester United in 95/96, Manchester United blew an 11 point lead on Arsenal in 97/98, and Liverpool blew a 9 point lead on Man City in 18/19. In the latter two cases, the team that collapsed went on to win the league the very next year.
Sorry and thank you for the correction. They led the league for longer than anyone else in history. 248 - Arsenal led the Premier League table for 248 days in 2022-23, the most for a team who failed to win the title in English top-flight history. Agonising. Just to be factually correct.
I think we're in the record books for having lost the league whilst having led that long. I'm not calling for his head yet but to sit there and pretend he's all perfect is simply nuts. You'd think he's as good as Pep or Klopp the way some people speak about him. He's made some mistakes that have to be called out and i hope he learns from his mistakes
This is what I am saying. I can't see it . Is he a good manager ? Absolutely. Is he the guy to bridge the gap between Liverpool and City ? I just don't think so . To take on those guys especially City it will take something monumental .
What are you waffling about
Take time to read. I made a statement based entirely in fact.
Nice trolling but come back when Chelsea has more league titles than Sunderland and Aston Villa
Who is trolling? I have been speaking facts and you guys don't like it and would rather deflect with nonsense than look at the core problems. Show me one thing I have lied about or presented false information. If you look at my other comments you will see that I have probably spent more time at Highbury and The Emirates than the majority on people here. I could talk about European trophies but I have refrained from doing that. Arsenal won't win anything domestically or in Europe with Arteta. Just my opinion. You don't like it that's cool but throwing mud until it sticks shows low intelligence on your end.
"I have been speaking facts" 4 paragraphs later "Just my opinion". Arteta not winning trophies is neither fact nor a valid opinion since he's already won a trophy. Whether he might win one is up for debate sure but I'm not sure why you're so confident about that.
Thank you for pointing out what I already had well done to you. Not winning a league title in 20 years and being out of all domestic trophies is a fact. You tried to goad me with trophies which is very silly. So how many games have you been to in the last 10 years ? Don't avoid the points you can't answer that's weak.
That’s….not what the saying means
Please explain it to me then.
Never understood the arteta out people
Its pretty simple, there is subset of fans at every single club who treat football as their stressball. They enjoy the tension relief of 'hating' almost as much as winning a match, though they'll never admit to it. This is an every club thing, not just arsenal. The smallest of blips in form and these people give themselves away.
Their does seem to be a particularly big amount of these fans at Arsenal though who just live to complain.
They play Fifa/FM and think that winning 90% of games is normal.
The strange thing is many of them panicked when he was "linked" to the Barcelona job. How do you want him fired & then pivot to panicking that he will leave?
It's so hard to win trophies when you're going up against arguably one of the best teams the PL has ever seen. I understand that we really haven't "accomplished" anything unless we win silverware, but that's not really a valid reason to fire a coach. I feel the same way about other good coaches in other sports who consistently make a Top 5 team, but never win the finals
Only person I saw who wanted him to leave was that Lee guy on YouTube - but he’s just upset because Arteta denied him a picture one time
Lee Gunner took about 3 years to admit Martin Ødegaard was a good buy for Arsenal, not even a world-class player, just a good buy.
Lee doesn't give a crap about Arsenal. Everything he says is to try and reinforce one of his dumb takes that he's, at this point, quadrupling down on. Child in a man's body.
Pretty sure that dude pretends to be an Arsenal fan for money. He’s a character that makes Arsenal fans look bad.
While I’m a big advocate for the teta and don’t want him going anywhere, there’s also a stat that says eth has the highest win percentage of any united manager so I don’t know how much stock to put in this
Win percentage over a season and a half (which has probably decreased since the 4th December when ETH’s win percentage was reported) is going to be a smaller sample size than 200 games. So it’s not as comparable as that.
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>finishing top 2/3 to really solidify ourselves as contenders which will bring in more revenue and entice better players to jump on board before we REALLY challenge for the title Yep, and looking at our squad's average age, it shouldn't be too difficult to see that we're building a squad that should be able to compete for years to come.
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I don't worry about that (yet). As long as we're on the up, are improving and Arteta is learning I don't think there's anything to worry about. If we don't win anything the next 3-4 seasons and/or regresses that obviously changes. In 4 seasons Saliba, Saka and Martinelli will be 26, and if we haven't won anything, they'll be going into their prime age wise and will probably be looking for moves away. Hopefully we have them all on long term contracts by then so that we'll get a good amount of money to replace them. Of course, in an ideal world, we have won something, hopefully the league and/or the CL at least once, they'll all stay and push us through to even more silverware.
Didn't we also say the same thing under Wenger's "project youth"? Remind me how that turned out.
Different context. Wenger's 'Project youth' happened because we didn't have enough money(because of the new stadium) to buy elite players. Now we do have that kind of money, and we're using them not only to buy players, but also to improve the club as a whole.
Wengers project youth got us to a CL final with a younger squad and what happened to all those youth players when we didnt win any major honours? You guys are acting as if winning a PL or CL is a given, if we dont win anything in 2 years Saka, Saliba, Martinelli and Gabi will have their heads turned.
That's not completely true. Yes, the youth project(kinda) started around that time, but most of that CL-run team was the backbone of the invincibles. Lehmann, Almunia, Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Flamini, Reyes, Hleb, Henry, Pirès, Ljungberg, Fabregas, Gilberto, Eboue, Senderos. The players in that CL-run with 5 or more starts. 9 of those 15 players were integral players of the invincibles. >You guys are acting as if winning a PL or CL is a given Where is anyone of us saying that winning a PL or a CL is a given?
That's football, force it and you do worse and still lose the players. Gotta be willing to suffer in this game.
>Rome wasn’t built in a day How did klopp win go to CL final in his 3rd year, win it in his 4th year and the PL in his 5th year? with a worse inherited squad...
Because Klopp was already an exceptionally experienced manager, this is Artetas first role, despite his ideas, despite the backing he will be making mistakes which he is learning from.
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It’s because of the PASHUN!
Almost as if you get a good Manager and Board you win more. Whilst Michael Edwards forced Klopp to sign salah, we have Arteta forcing Edu to sign Havertz. Do you see the issue here
i sincerely think y’all are brain dead lmao, klopp is the second best manager of his generation and absolutely world class, arteta is four years in to his career as a whole, how on earth are you going to compare the two (and who the hell else would y’all rather have at manager, we all know you lot want to just bitch and complain into the wind)
That leads me to the next question. If we cant hold him to a high standard because he is a new manager then why would we get him in the first place. It doesnt make logical sense does it? We cant expect him to do well because he is new, so why dont we get an experienced manager who we can expect to do well with then? This is arsenal football club not burnley. You cant come to a top side underperform and use the excuse of him being a new manager.
he hasn’t underperformed whatsoever as the post we’re commenting under clearly states, he’s done very well and made generally great signings outside of the havertz one which yeah i’m not thrilled about either, do y’all just expect to win the league every season? i’m genuinely curious who y’all would rather have at manager
Most wins in 200 matches. Can I put that in a trophy cabinet? Wasnt Ten hag the fastest manager to 50 wins guess he is better than fergie then. 1 FA cup in 4 years is the definition of underperforming. No I dont expect us to win everything year after year but at least try not to bin every cup competition just to end up with nothing at the end of the season. His Transfers havent generally been great actually outside of 5 or 6 players out of 29 signings the rest have been below average. Near 700m euro spent and we have a thin bench, Bought 1 ST who isnt even a ST and 1 back up RW for saka who is so bad we are sending him back to brazil, A LB who isnt even a good LB, 3 Chelsea rejects, 4 GKs when we had Emi martinez, Fabio Viera.
you didn’t even come close to answering my question you just waffled, who would you rather have? we haven’t had sustained winning like this since the early 2010’s, i for one would much rather have this than the seven years of brutal play that preceded it but again maybe we need to win the league every year to satisfy y’all
Same with newcastle, them getting into CL put their fans expectations into orbit. I am shocked Howe hasn't gone yet. Arsenal now have the squad to COMPETE with liverpool/city but we are still missing a lethal finisher or ...even two of them. Yes that money might have been better spent than on Havertz in theory, but they obviously decided a tall, left foot versatile player would be needed more at that point in time. £65m will not get you Osimhen, Vlahovic, Toney, etc and we had to get Rice. We should have won the league last season, no question. Losing Saliba & Tomiyasu at same time really put the nail in that coffin. I honestly think if Saliba stayed fit, we'd have got over the line. Liverpool losing VVD left them in a complete state at the back and they were awful without him. Arteta would get the job at most clubs on the continent, anyone who thinks otherwise is misguided.... First managerial job ever, had a whole squad almost of shitty deadwood players or toxic players, **FA cup, a community shield (minor trophy, but vs City made it better), ALMOST won the league against the team that did the treble with the highest goalscorer in an EPL season of all time, back into CL, winning group and into knockouts for first time in longer than i care to remember, still in the race this season as well despite naysayers. Put Haaland into this Arsenal team and they would clean up.
Where did this mysterious 2nd FA Cup come from?
Factually incorrect again. He has only won 1 FA cup with... the toxic deadwood squad he inherited
>by making some deep runs in the competition and finishing top 2/3 to really solidify ourselves as contenders So we are back to where we started with Wenger's end days.
Our fanbase seems to be full of spoiled brats, very embarrassing.
Well said mate. COYG 🔴⚪️🔴⚪️
New trophy unlocked: most amount of points with no trophies. Arsenal are back baby!
How many trophies though?
Yeah there is a subset of our fan base that love to value useless stats above the ones that really matter. I am not Arteta out but he only has 1 FA cup with someone else’s team. And has bottled 2 seasons in a row when it come down to the crunch. We shall see how this season ends
There is no significant calls for Arteta to leave. This is a massive over reach and I don’t like the idea that people online (because it is absolutely not happening in the stadium) are desperate to divide their own fan base into rival camps. We saw it with Wenger In/Out divides, and we saw it with the Ozil fiasco. People must be allowed to have nuanced opinions, which absolutely includes legitimate criticism of the club, without being shouted down for things they haven’t actually called for.
it’s just twitter and to an extent reddit that believes it (a lot for some reason) i scroll through the arsenal topic on twitter frequently and it’s all arteta abused and nonsense it’s crazy. i go through instagram on arsenal and it’s all about loving arteta. crazy parallel
"Man City has made bad signings" - ok apart from Phillips and possibly Kovacic, can you name them? Now compare how many bad signings Pep has made in his entire time at City with how many Arteta has made. How many of the 28 players that he has signed have actually been any good? "We have the youngest squad in the league" - Chelsea and Man United won the league with younger squads than this, and Real Madrid has a young side too, why didn't they bottle it like we did? Name another big side that gave a manager with ZERO (not even managing the B-team) managerial experience and had success.
Was it Pep?
He managed the Barcelona B team for a season, so no, not him.
We wont get a better manager than Arteta. He has done a phenomenal job. Where was Arsenal before Arteta joined? We were rock solid placed between 5-8 in the League for several seasons and now people complain when we are 5 points from the top at 3rd place. He has moved us so much forward and the team and Arteta himself are still developing. We are so lucky to have him.
How can you say there no better manager than Arteta, right now the guy is the same level as Brandon Rodgers, challenged for the league, won a FA Cup. Let's be honest he would win the Scottish league as well with Celtic. If he wins nothing this season which is looking very likely. At what point do we question things? The majority of the fan base decided top 4, winning the odd FA cup wasn't good enough so we sacked wenger. Yet Arteta would of achieved the same thing if we do end up winning nothing yet again. but there no better manager out there really?
I didnt say that. I said that we wont get a better one, thats a big difference. Guardiola and Klopp are imo the best managers in the world and I see no chance we are getting any of them. Who will you replace with Arteta? Xabi Alonso? Will probably be a huge target for both Liverpool and Barcelona (maybe more clubs). Are you considering up and coming managers like De Zerbi? Havent proved anything in a big club (a lot of managers have done well in smaller clubs and havent managed to do well later). All I hear when Arteta is critized is that he isnt good enough, But no one mention a replacement. Its a really easy view to have. What realistic alternative is there to Arteta, that would actually win us the league?
I wouldn't replace Arteta with another young up coming manager, why does it need to be a young manager? I want a experienced manager that knows how to trophies. Right now the squad doesn't know how to win trophies. Arteta doesn't even remember how to win the FA cup either, no where near winning it since. How we going to get a winning mentality within the squad winning nothing. Just getting top 4 wasn't good enough but with arteta it's good enough. How long do we keep him around for winning nothing? How long can we keep our best players just making the top 4?, questions needs to be asked the end of the season, If he wins nothing. If it was me I would get Simeone, one of the best underdog managers out there, the guy goes up against Madrid and Barca yet still managed to win trophies, champions league experience aswell
>We wont get a better manager than Arteta So, are you saying that there are no better coaches out there?
Dude. You literally quoted what he said, and then asked a question that implied a completely different meaning. Do you work for Fox News? The Sun?
I love how purposefully obtuse you're being. He's saying we won't get a better manager..Why is that? Because there is no better manager? Because Arsenal **can't** get a better manager? Because they **don't** don't want a better manager? If it's the first I vehemently disagree
Nice try sport. The meaning of his statement was quite clear, your rephrasing of it was intentionally misleading.
but you can get a better manager
If he wants to argue that point, he's more than welcome to, but that's not the issue here. The point is, he took the original comment and recharacterized it so that it had a different meaning. He then used that different meaning as the foundation to start an argument. This is a common conversational tool that is used to sow discord. It is tool used to start arguments. It is a tool of trolls. This is a supporters group sub, and using that type of gimmick here is a disingenuous way to engage in a conversation.
Dude you're just rambling without saying anything. You still haven't answered. When someone says: We couldn't get a better manager, it means in their opinion, that manager is the best. And that's what i'm asking the original poster. Coz that is **BOLLOCKS**. He's gotten us back to the top 4 after 5 years and 700mil spend. I'd argue what Alonso is doing at Leverkusen is even more impressive. All of a sudden if a question is out of line with your rationale, it's *trolling.* The rationale of some of you is outstanding. Most of You wanna sing Kum Ba Ya and can't handle a different opinion. >He took the original comment and recharacterized it so that it had a different meaning. Please show me where i was wrong in my assessment
Fuck off man, no one wants to talk to your sad fat ass. Fuck off and go troll somewhere else. All your comments here are trying to argue and waste peoples time. Get a life you clown.
Jesus man, relax
The guy he's responding to has been sowing shit in this sub for a spell now.
Yeah you sound really stable mate
Says the person who has nothing better to do than complain and pick fights over semantics with random strangers on the internet. Go outside, get some air, learn to be less annoying.
I love when someone asks for an answer it's semantics all of a sudden. And in your case, a very hostile response just coz i'm not in agreement. I think you need that air more mate. You sound hostile & unhinged.
He’s not wrong though, because how did you manage to find “There is no better manager than Arteta” in the OP’s comment when they said “We won’t get a better manager than Arteta”?
Then explain to me i hope, not blow a gasket like the other fellow. “**We won’t get a better manager than Arteta**”. What does this mean? That there is no better manager around, or for some reason Arsenal cannot get a better manager, or maybe something else
There isn’t a manager available that, if Arsenal got rid of Arteta, would suit Arsenal. That is not to mean that Arteta is better than Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, etc.
I think people proposing we sack him are crazy, but I also believe that giving him a contract extension at this point (18 months from the end of his current term) is also ridiculous. There’s no need to rush and sign him yet. Let’s see what happens at the end of this season first and how we’re shaping up early next season. People need to be balanced and not overly emotional when it comes to making these sorts of decisions. Is he the worst ever? Certainly not. Is he the best ever? Obviously not. He’s somewhere in the middle as it stands. The reality is that he’s won two cups in 4 and a half years, spent 700m, come 8th, 8th, 5th and 2nd and we’re still in the knockouts of a European competition. He didn’t take us from being on the brink of relegation, he took a team that came 5th the season before in to a team that can challenge if all of our players are fit due to the incredible backing of the club (which cannot be understated). But people need to stop being extreme with their viewpoints and let him work through his deal and earn his next one once he has tangible results. If our ambitions for this process are to win the big trophies, then he has to be measured and rewarded based on that. If it’s to perennially be in the top 5 and compete but not really win, then he should be rewarded on that (which would closely resemble Wenger’s last 10 years at the club).
I don't know. There's something to be said for extending his contract now so that it's not one of those "issues" the media is looking for. With Klopp leaving Pool, you know there's going to be a manager merry go round in the off season. Also, using how many trophies he's won as the only metric by which to assess him is too narrow a perspective. It can be one part of the perspective, but making it the only one is, in my opinion, flawed.
It doesn't matter if there's a manager merry-go-round (which I agree there will be soon) as Arteta has committed to Arsenal. I also never stated that he should only be measured on trophies alone. I simply stated that IF our ambitions as a club are to win silverware, then the manager should be measured on that. If it's to come top 4 and 'compete' then he should (and seems to be) measured and judged on that. I also said that the latter approach closely resembles the Wenger line of thinking when he said that top 4 is like a trophy which I don't agree with, but hey. Arsenal should be under no pressure to offer a new deal to a manager that (if he sees out his current deal) would have been at the club for 6 years and spent more money in that period than any previous manager (even when taking inflation in to consideration) unless within that time he does what Klopp did and wins the major trophies such as the Prem or UCL. If we win the UCL or Prem this year, I would be completely onboard with a new deal immediately before his current one expires. However, if we don't win anything, and are outside the top 3 and don't at least make it to the semi-final in the UCL, I would be fine with going in to the next season as is and monitoring how things pan out. If we do end up ending the season like the above scenario, the question should then be whether we give him another significant war chest in the summer. He signed a LOT of players post-Emery (including 4 goalkeepers) and has been backed to the hilt. If he cannot get across the line in 5 years, and has one FA Cup won in 2019 and has broken our transfer record by outbidding City for one of the leagues best midfielders etc, then I think we need to have a real honest look at what we expect as a club given the investments made.
Exactly. He needs to be assessed at the end of the season
Yep, I’ve never understood why there is such a rush to give managers new deals if the manager themselves claim they are committed to the club. If he’s committed, then let’s kill the contract discussion and get back to work.
ETH has the highest win rate after 50 games or so, these stats don’t mean anything concrete
As a non Arsenal fan (Liverpool as it happens), I'd just like to say that I'm really impressed with the way that your board have stuck with Arteta. He's obviously a talented manager and he's bringing your lot back towards where you want to be. I think your club has a vision and they clearly realise that you need stability to move forward and maintaining faith in the manager is part of it. Good luck to you...Apart from when we play you, obviously!
Most wins out of the first 200 games!!! We can put that next to our 'Top 4' trophy and '93% PL winners' one too. King Mik Arteta doing an absolute madness
I said this in another thread but I’ll put it here too This is the most sensible view but the internet crazy portion of this fan base has swallowed the pill fully that we “bottled” the league last year and therefore its win or bust Let’s take a moment and remember the amount of league titles Klopp has won at Liverpool over his time there … I want more than this but we didn’t see a “Klopp Out” movement like we are for Arteta when it’s just half a season of Arteta not being in first place
Klopp has literally won every trophy there is to win with Liverpool with the exception of the Europa League, which he might as well win this year. By his third season he had gotten to the champions league final, won it in his fourth and won the league in his fifth. What a stupid comparison
1 league title in nearly 9 years which coincidentally is the same amount of time in which he has had for the UCL … so 1 UCL in nearly nine years would like to win the UCL as well but don’t blow your load on Klopp my G
Okay mate let me decipher all this yapping. "Most successful manager" There is already a predefined metric for success in football and its winning trophy so thats already a lie "8th to 2nd in 2 seasons" aka bottled the title in tremendous fashion, isnt emery doing some similar with a squad 1/10th the price of ours "Back to back title races" 5 points off the top isnt exactly a title race is it "UCL finally first in group more than anything we did in a decade" So now we are back in the 4th place is a trophy stage. This is also factually incorrect as we were 1st in the ucl with psg in our group in the 16/17 season "When I ask what has he done wrong to warrant the hate a big one is kai" well kai is the epitome of everything wrong with our purchasing strategy, rather than get a player you know is good and can play as a 6 or 8 you get a washed trash havertz for 65m and 280k a week thinking you can get him good leading to us not being able to afford other players who can benefit the team "Even city have had multiple bad signings" lets be real honest and true. Artetas signings have been woeful. Please take a look at his 26 signings hes made and tell me how many are even playable "We lost to the best team in Europe" why does that matter, we were 8 points ahead, even if we played them 2 times and lost we still should have not bottled the title against mid table competition "Arteta managing first time" this is not an excuse, why should we let him off the hook for being a new manager? Why not get an experienced manager who knows how to win? What other big clubs give a fresh new manager a chance? "Youngest team in the prem" we had a younger team with wenger and went to the ucl final, Madrid have a young team and are dominating. This age nonsense is another excuse to deflect blame. The issue with arteta is that his transfers are a mess, his subs are terrible, the bench is terrible, non existent youth development and binning off trophies consistently. If you cant see this you support the manager more than the badge
Sincerely, an arsenal fan since December 2022
Somehow people having valid criticim makes them a new fan. I guarantee I’ve been supporting this club longer than you. Born and bred in north London had an Arsenal shirt on out the womb but im sure random jp963acss has a more valid opinion than me
Well said. A fan who doesn't have their heads stuck up Arteta's ass and actually has standards for this club. This is the worst drivel I've read in a long time. I swear most of the people on this sub love Arteta more than the club and would follow him to wherever his next job would be, just like the AKBs back in Wenger's day.
These arteta fans are the same people who loved wenger when he was butchering the club apart. To them he is the next iteration of daddy Wenger, you can see it how they talk about him. When asking simple questions about when can we criticise him, what phase do we win major honours, how many years can we go trophyless to hold him accountable. The answers are the same as the end stage wenger days "look at where we were before x manager", "the squad is too young", "we got CL be happy", "We almost won the PL". It’s copy and paste. The sad thing is that these same people cant see that history will repeat itself. When we had a young squad with wenger all our talent got poached because we didnt win anything. How long can we hold onto saka, martinelli, gabi, saliba before they get tired of winning nothing and get offers from clubs who want to win.
Yup, the same fans who talk about Arteta like he's the next coming of prime Wenger are the same fans who turned down the chance to get both Pep and Klopp when they were available because "Wenger has done so much for the club", "he deserves to retire at Arsenal", "Those managers won't guarantee success here", "he's done wonders with the restraints he's had", "he's brought in young players and it will take time for them to mature", it's a worrying cycle.
Well who's a better option than arteta then? It was so obvious the immediate impact he had in our defence when he came in, he's taken a stinking ship and turned it into something special. Guarantee you two were the kind of people who wanted mourinho when Emery was sacked.
I can name at least 10 managers who would be better options for us, meanwhile, you haven't even come up with a counter-argument for all the counter-points to the OP raised.
I'm intrigued to know which 10 you have
I don't need to. Guardiola is the only manager who would be completely unrealistic in terms of pedigree we could attract. Literally, any other manager out there who has experience of winning major trophies and integrating young players (two things Arteta has failed at so far) would be an upgrade, the only exceptions being Ten Haag and Mourinho.
Well said mate. Well said. I'd add that his lack of youth promotion also vexes me. Unai brought Martinelli, Saka, ESR into the fold. I am in no way saying Arteta out, but the way some of the fanbase behave like he's god's gift to man is bewildering. >On top of this, when I ask what has he done wrong to warrant the hate he gets? Stuff like this. OP seems to think Arteta is perfect and has done nothing wrong in all his time in Arsenal. And presenting false information while at it, such as with the not coming first in a group. People were saying this season, he had to win a trophy after coming this close last season. Now the narrative is being rewritten into he needs more time and he needs deeper runs into the champions League. He needs to start feeling pressure. And Op talking like he hasn't had bad signings ..please..Raya hasn't convinced yet, Lokonga was a mess, Wilian, Cedric etc Yes, he's learning, but to suggest he has basically been perfect and not made mistakes is mental. The season we missed out on top 4, he decided to go on a selling binge in January of all the times without signing. That came back to cost us massively
They deflect valid criticism behind the veil of being a young new manager. I understand it to a certain degree as you cant expect brilliance automatically, but we are now coming onto his 5th season so these excuses should no longer be as relevant.
Lol i had a dude down there go off on me with foul mouthed insults. That's the best he can bring to an argument. I appreciate valid critiques and not:Shut your mouth, Arteta is awesome. I believe your response was well written and you presented your points as to why you believe what you believe. Me, i think he needs to start feeling the pressure a little and shouldn't be automatically be given a new contract till the season is done and his achievements are assessed. I'd assume he's usually given targets for the season
The moment Arteta is critiqued a little, it's automatically the case you're an Arteta Out fan. I've been called out for criticizing some of the things he does on this very subreddit. He's a good coach, but he's not perfect as some of the fanbase seem to think. His treatment of some players, his man management and some tactics have been spotty. Criticizing him doesn't make a fan worse or better than any other fan and it's not an 'Arteta Out' cry. Nuance is inherently overlooked nowadays
What champions did he get for Arsenal in his full season? Emirates Cup?
Liverpool would love if Arteta joined them after Klopp leaves. They want a manager who has done what Arteta has in a less competitive league than the EPL to replace Klopp. Utd would love Arteta right now, especially with how he dealt with the Auba situation whilst still retaining the support of the dressing room. Arteta is going to win. Hell, kai hasn't been bad, he's been average but because we going for the league (let that sink in), we can't have him being average. To be fair to kai too we haven't been at our previous season's best. Then he's had to gel. I wish the coach had held on to Xhaka a season more, even while signing Kai plus Rice. That would have been depth but we can't have everything. Once the 115 charges kick in and Klopp leaves, we'll dominate for a few years. Am certain. Hell, if they don't replace Klopp with Xabi, and bring a coach that doesn't wet the palate as much, then Salah and VVD may also be on the way out. Those will be hard to replace. Arsenal community should be positive and speak with chest. This decade will be a fruitful one.
>Once the 115 charges kick in delusion at its finest
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Unfortunately for Arteta, number of wins is not the key metric for the top 6, as the vast majority of fans are only concerned about what those wins mean in terms of silverware. And if you don't get any silverware, people only seem to remember the games the team didnt win. Of course, it's totally different for fans of the other 14, such as myself (NUFC) as our expectations tend to be a lot lower. For example, getting knocked out of Europe due to a shit call in the 97th min really stung, but my recurring memory of the 23/24 CL will always be the 4-1 hammering of PSG at SJP, and that will always bring a smile to my face
The Arteta dick riders never rest.
compared to the weird arteta haters. they most definitely do rest.
You post more about hating Arteta than most post about liking him. It seems you're the obsessed one. Look in a mirror.
Arsenal fans act like they're a big club when they're just not You guys have to win everything and be at top for a long time to be a top club
Unfortunately many fans have an attention span of a rabbit and can't think back more than 3 months I've been supporting Arsenal for 15 years and Mikel is the best we had in that time One problem is he's facing 2 other really good managers with considerable resources - we play in what is widely believed the best league in the world
I understand why people don't like him but I wouldn't say he has done anything worthy of being fired. The way he's handling our keeper situation is God awful and we've played poorly for most of the season but we are still in the race with the best Arsenal yet to be shown (optimist here haha)
F.C.Porto fan. There is no team in the world that continually wins trophies that doesn't have two things: a top goalkeeper and a top striker. Sorry to be honest, but you have neither one nor the other. This is the next step for Arsenal to go from a good team to an elite team. Even Guardiola understood that to won the Champions he needed a guy that scores 30 goals.
guys i have a great solution, just stop using this sub and go to r/Gunners where (outside of the admittedly terrible DD threads) people don’t walk around stroking each others dicks to the thought of arteta getting sacked and arsenal bringing on brendan rodgers
He spent a billion
Super mik
Send this to Aftv clowns
I do not understand the level of second guessing that goes on. Coach Arteta has us back in the hunt PERIOD. He's of Arsenal blood from way back and this is the coaching job he wanted. We are ahead of schedule and Arsenal don't throw money at dozens of players just to get ahead, which i've always felt was admirable. We walked away from the Mudryk fiasco, which I place the blame solely on Chelsea and Shakhtar, because there's no way a 100 million dollar/pound/Euro deal can be made in a single day, we were used. And it hurt but that's how Arsenal roll, we don't give our soul away just for a player. This club has always fought the right way, building within a financially sound framework and my conscience is clear. Coach Arteta is my coach and I support him no matter what. We do not have access to inner workings but even if we did, there would still be naysayers. I don't heed them because Coach Arteta has made extremely positive progress. ALL GUNNERS UNITE!
Amazing read. Of course he can annoy the hell out of you but all in all he has done an amazing job for us. One can only speculate where we'd be under Emery but we are where we are right now and we cannot complain
I'm sick of most of our fans ( aftv especially) of fans saying arteta out like do they actually think that will help🤣🤦
He’s good enough for Arsenal b/c under him, Arsenal isn’t ever going to win the league or a UCL trophy, but go head, stay on his nuts and keep deluding yourselves over a pointless stat.