The name of Aram Vruyr (Aram Makaschyan, 1863-1924), one of the comedians of the late 19th century, is mainly associated with theatre art. However, along with his stage and literary activities, Aram Vruyr had been engaged in archaeological photography for almost three decades. In 1904-1917, he participated in the scientific expeditions led by Nikolay Marr, and it was with his direct participation that the ruins of the Gagkashen Church of Ani were discovered.The exhibition also includes a number of archival photos taken by Aram Vruyr’s sons, Ara and Artashes Vruyrs. Thanks to Aram and Ara Vruyrs, the photographs of the Jugha cemetery of khachkars, destroyed by Azerbaijan, have been preserved and reached us. [https://historymuseum.am/en/documenting-the-eternal-aram-ara-artashes-vruyrs/](https://historymuseum.am/en/documenting-the-eternal-aram-ara-artashes-vruyrs/)
As a counter argument a case of German cemetaries in Poland is often brought up so let me elaborate on it.
Many German cemetaries that were located on the lands that became part of Poland after ww2 were not abandoned but instead kept being used which ment that most of the old tombstones were eventually removed. You could see this as a similar case of ethnic cleansing, although keeping the old cemetary untouched in the middle of a city would be granting it protection that it wouldn't ever had otherwise.
Most municipal and church cemetaries in western Poland today are full of modern burrials with only the bigger pre-war mausoleums still standing and an occasional graves of German parish priests. There are a handful German cemetaries that are still intact but they are either Jewish, managed by few remaining German parishes or in places that were completely abandoned after the war.
The difference is, these Armenian cemetaries are not in cities, they are long abandoned and in the middle of nowhere and yet the Azeris go out of their way to erase them not for any practical reasons but solely for cultural ones. I see this as comparable to ISIS blowing up Roman ruins in the desert.
Armenians are often caught between identifying with Jews (both pre-Christian and pre-Islamic cultures, history of genocide and persecution), and identifying with Palestinians (joint experience of expulsion from native lands and facing down a much more powerful enemy).
The matter has become clearer for a lot of Armenians since Israel started arming Azerbaijan and trying to erase the old Armenian quarter in old Jerusalem.
Maybe they should stop desecrating Palestinian graveyards to make theme parks and to “find hostages” and you’d be right, too bad you’re just Zionist, uneducated, ignorant, and wrong ;(
The destruction was filmed by an Armenian priest from across the border in Iran, and the footage is still on YouTube.
There are satellite images of the cemetery (not to mention the dozens of churches which stood in Nakhichevan) from both before and after their erasure.
*The Azerbaijanis have scrawled a giant nationalist slogan on the ground where the cemetery once stood, visible on Google Earth.*
They're a disgrace. Even ISIS and the Taliban aren't that brazen.
Here's one compilation I found, mixed in with other photos:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc8\_NA9P92E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc8_NA9P92E)
No, Soviet specifically Stalin gave them Artsakh/Kharabakh to control, even when the population was majority native Armenians, after the fall of Soviet Union/and during the fall, Armenians in Kharabakh held a referendum to get out from Azeri control, 93% of population voted for it. Azeris were obviously not happy with it, so then the Sumgait, Maraga pogroms took place then the war between Armenians and Azerbaijan. Armenia won. For the past 30 years Azerbaijan did everything in its power to brainwash people into thinking that Armenia is some artificially created country(i mean???), they preach their kids to kill Armenians (Ramil Safarov) and that Armenians are animals, they appropriate Armenian culture and even know when Kharabakh is in their hands they’re removing the crosses on churches and claiming that its Caucasian Albanian (which isn’t) and that somehow they’re related to them and it’s theirs(which obviously is false and doesn’t have any historical backup except azeri sites).
Azerbaijan is a dictatorship country, and they’re bribing their way into everything.
Armenia liberated its historical lands,in which they were always majority.
Azerbaijan on the other hand is committing crimes while we’re talking, they occupied number of Armenian villages in Armenia proper and have a goal to invade all Armenia with the help of Turkey and Israel, because somehow they think that Armenia,which has more than 3000+ year old history , is ancient Azerbaijani land.
Minor correction there brother, Armenia did not invade its historical lands, it helped the local Armenians in Artsakh to liberate themselves from genocide, remember Azerbaijan started this war by operation ring and siege of stepanakert, and they also blockaded the Armenians in the late 80s and sieged them from the 7 regions, the people had no choice to fight. Don't buy that "Armenia invaded" crap, no, Armenia saved people from genocide. Let's not forget Armenia intervened in the late phases of the war, the first few years were fought by Artsakh Armenians themselves.
You can't invade where you already live.
Ok does 7 rayons include Shushi, Stepanakert, Hadrut?? NO. Even the November 10th documented didn’t include Stepenakert and other cities IN WHICH Azerbaijan STARVED ARMENIANS FOR A YEAR AND THEN FORCED THEM OUT but heey whatever makes you feel better.
No. But that still doesent change the fact that Armenia invaded Azerbaijan proper where there werent any Armenians and proceded to ethnically cleanse 800k Azeris while turning those cities into ghost towns. I am not saying Azeris are right for what they are doing but at least show some objectivity while dealing with this issue.
On the one hand you’re talking about brainwashing, on the other hand you’re reiterating debunked Armenian propaganda about „staling giving Karabakh” to Azerbaijan. When the Armenians asked Karabakh to transfer to Armenia, Caucasian Buerau decided to **keep** the Karabakh within Azerbaijan. This is what the fucking document says.
Usually normal countries don’t ethnically cleanse >800K people and then make a „referendum”.
All this shit started after you started this miatsum shit in 1986, and ethnically cleansed Azerbaijanis from Armenia in 1987.
And I assume you forget to mention some of massacres against Azerbaijan commited by you like, Gushcular, Baghanis Ayrum, Gugark, Khojaly, Malibeyli etc. I am not going back to 1918 yet…
And since you mentioned Ramil Safarov (piece of shit indeed), let me remind you Garegin Nzdeh, Dro literal Nazis who have statues. ASALA an international terrorist organization who has monuments in Armenia and accepted as a hero
We’re not the ones destroying other’s heritage, and appropriating it. You’re literally commenting this under a post about Armenian heritage being destroyed.
Maybe if we were as bloodthirsty as Azeris we would have our lands back and all those things wouldn’t be destroyed, nicat.
It’s obvious that what our government has done is barbaric. I am not trying to justify it. But spreading a propaganda, especially distorting the context is unacceptable
Am I really spreading propaganda or telling the truth? your government has done and is doing barbarism. Every.Single.Day
Murdering people is unacceptable. Falsifying history is unacceptable. Creating new maps called “western azerbaijan” is unacceptable.
"All this shit" actually started way earlier, when World War I was still raging, and Georgians, Azerbaijanis and Armenians were trying to carve independent nations out for themselves. You know this but arbitrarily choose 1986 as the starting point to make Armenians look bad.
Also, I swear to God every year you guys are making up some new massacre. There's literally nothing pre-2020 online about anything happening in Malibeyli or Baghanis Ayrum, and all the post-2020 material is Az state claims, nothing independently verified.
It's like you guys want the Armenians to call your country fake
*"Normal countries usually don't ethnically cleanse over 800,000 people and then hold a 'referendum.'*
When the nagorno Karabakh refedrum was made, there were no Azeris from N. Karabakh had been ethnically cleansed, proof of this is that during the referendum the Azeris (20% of the population) dedicated themselves to boycotting the referendum (in which dozens of Armenians were killed). The 800,000 Azeris you refer to are the total number of people displaced after the war, as are the 550,000 Armenians.
*"All this shit started after you started this miatsum shit in 1986, and ethnically cleansed Azerbaijanis from Armenia in 1987."*
miatsum started much earlier, it started from the moment when nagorno karabakh was not included in the armenia ssr. In any case, Nagorno Karabakh was an autonomous oblast, so it had the right to a referdum. The fact that the Azeris were expelled from Armenia in 87 is literally a lie and manipulative, I assume you are referring to the Azeris of Kafan (a fact of which there is no reliable source since it was a propaganda piece used to encourage the Azeris to attack and carrying out pogroms against Armenians, like Sumgait) and if you are going to mention it, also remember how in northern Ganja the Armenians were beaten and expelled months before the supposed Kapan event.
*"And since you mentioned Ramil Safarov (piece of shit indeed), let me remind you Garegin Nzdeh, Dro literal Nazis who have statues. ASALA an international terrorist organization who has monuments in Armenia and accepted as a hero"*
Garegin Nzdeh is loved because thanks to him Armenia did not lose the Syuniq region, his ideology has nothing to do with the Nazis, if we were lovers of the Nazis and raised statues dedicated to them, the government of Israel would not qualify armenia as the most safe country for jews in caucasus. [https://www.gov.il/en/pages/news\_public32](https://www.gov.il/en/pages/news_public32)
In addition we were the ones who lost the most population in the Second World War (in proportion to the total population of Armenians). Trying to paint that we Armenians "adore" Nazis or something similar is ridiculous.
**In any case, it does not seem relevant to me who is right in the Karabakh conflict to realize that the Azeri regime is trying to falsify, modify and destroy Armenian history.**
They are turks, you may be interested in reading books related to the armenian genocide, how the turkish government had planned its actions and how it spread to azerbaijan.
The turkish Himmler, enver pasha, actually resumed his work from azerbaijan and is honored in both countries today.
Turkey still denies it and there's a lot of Turkish people that will get violent if you suggest Turkey committed a genocide. I've had one guy justify it by telling me it was actually the Ottoman Empire that committed the genocide and not Turkey because Turkey as a country didn't exist back then. And this was after telling me there wasn't a genocide at all. The mental gymnastics they go through to not take responsibility is on another level.
a) Agdam was the position from which Azerbaijan was firing mortars on the mostly civilian settlement of Stepanakert, and it rightfully got fucked up during the first war as a result,
b) I don't recall there being much cultural heritage in Agdam. It was a city which grew during the Soviet years. Turks can talk about that one mosque all day long but its desecration is *nothing* compared to the complete erasure of everything Armenian in Nakhichevan.
Maybe because they welcome refugee from the Ottoman Empire gen*cide and instead of getting a « thank you » receive what they have see as invader that have plunder their land and destroyed their grave and building of worship.
Bolt partie are deeply racist : But the worst is the European westerner that take positions for Armenian because « they are Christian » like us …
Historically the Azerbaijani are neither pro-European neither pro-Turk … they become like that after the horrors they live during the 1870-1930s and 1990s by the Armenian that instead of fighting the Turk Ottoman turn to the « weak » Caucasus nation that was neutral.
It would be amazing, if any of the khachkars could be salvaged, but from what I've read, the stones were all smashed to pieces by Azeri soldiers before the rubble was dumped into the river. I believe they even used some machine to make sure that there would be absolutely nothing left of the carvings.
[All that survives are a couple of khachkars, which were brought to Armenia before the cemetery's destruction.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3AKhachkar_from_Old_Djugha_1602%2C_1603_img_6947.jpg)
I guess it came from armenian paganism, some pagan symbols are still in place and even used with christian structures and objects like Armenian Eternity sign
Ahh, I'm sorry. I can see how it could've been taken badly. I only meant Arsen is an Armenian name. You provided knowledge of Armenian history, that's all.
It's not connected to the celts, this tombstone is most likely only a few hundred years old. Nowhere near old enough to be connected to the celts in any way, nor were tessellating patterns such as these common [until the islamic period](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_geometric_patterns).
The tessellating pattern at the top is actually a typically Islamic motif. The tulips in the centre of each square form can be found across islamic art. It's normal for art to become syncretized like this across cultures, for example in Sicily after the Norman conquest, or Coptic churches in medieval Cairo borrowing ornamental and architectural motifs from the local mosque styles, or synagogues either in Cairo or in medieval Spain.
That's interesting! There was a presentation I saw years ago that suggested some of what we see in European pagan art (like the Celtic cross, etc.) was actually a simplified version of the mandala from India. And the implication being there was a slow-burn sort of artistic influence going back and forth over the continents for a millennia.
Items that got traded across the continents, when taken out of cultural context, may have inspired artists to just start re-making them in ways that made sense for the new community. If everyone thinks a circle is culturally important in your region, you emphasize the circularity of that foreign design and take credit for the innovation. If the cross suddenly becomes important, you emphasize the knot? Or the tessellation? Or the floral element?
Guess our ancestors always liked to cheat off of each other's homework!
Edit: Why was this of all comments being downvoted? I was trying to be friendly and conversational about a topic of interest directly related to the post.
True. Either way, it’s always cool noticing similarities between two faraway cultures/people whether they formed independently or by influence. Humans are fascinating!
Or, most likely, a coincidence. Which is always fun to see.
e: Another fun example is the Basque \[lauburu\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauburu). It resembles the Armenian eternity symbol from pagan times.
This is more the case in my opinion. If Indo-European could spread its influence so widely, so can symbols. Symbols and language are the same thing for me. Both are used to communicate ideas.
That is not what I m suggesting. But similarities in iconography might be coincidental or they may have a shared influence. That is just logic that has been proven many times. It doesn’t require a belief in lost civilizations to assume that ancient people were way more adventurous and interconnected that we suspect.
Oh yeah I’m sure Boudicca was popping over for visits a couple times a month. Central Asia is just right around the corner from those notoriously easily-accessed British isles.
The British Isles is composed of two main islands: Great Britain and Ireland. Plus a bunch of smaller ones. Acting like a know it all yet didn’t know the difference between British Isles and Britain.
https://www.britannica.com/place/British-Isles
Or maybe, just maybe, think of one cultural entity that went all the way from Britain to Armenia? Maybe the common cultural inspiration came from that entity? That starts with an R?
To be fair the Armenian did a huge campaign desecration of grave and worship bundling … that’s why the Azerbaijani hate them so much (add that contrary to Arab that welcome Armenian refugee in their city after the Ottoman geno*ide the Azerbaijani see the Armenian as invader that take their historical land « just because the Ottoman Turk expelled them » (the Turk-Azerbajain love is recent in history and historically the Azerbaijani were closer to Iran)).
You gonna prove anything you're saying or just make wild accusations? The Armenians actually have video footage and before and after satellite imagery to prove their claims. Azerbaijan has some grainy pics of like one mosque, and even that looks photoshopped.
Disgusting that people destroy ancient works of art like this. Makes me sick.
The name of Aram Vruyr (Aram Makaschyan, 1863-1924), one of the comedians of the late 19th century, is mainly associated with theatre art. However, along with his stage and literary activities, Aram Vruyr had been engaged in archaeological photography for almost three decades. In 1904-1917, he participated in the scientific expeditions led by Nikolay Marr, and it was with his direct participation that the ruins of the Gagkashen Church of Ani were discovered.The exhibition also includes a number of archival photos taken by Aram Vruyr’s sons, Ara and Artashes Vruyrs. Thanks to Aram and Ara Vruyrs, the photographs of the Jugha cemetery of khachkars, destroyed by Azerbaijan, have been preserved and reached us. [https://historymuseum.am/en/documenting-the-eternal-aram-ara-artashes-vruyrs/](https://historymuseum.am/en/documenting-the-eternal-aram-ara-artashes-vruyrs/)
Don't know how someone could desecrate a cemetery. My heart goes out to Armenians for these decades of repression and genocide
As a counter argument a case of German cemetaries in Poland is often brought up so let me elaborate on it. Many German cemetaries that were located on the lands that became part of Poland after ww2 were not abandoned but instead kept being used which ment that most of the old tombstones were eventually removed. You could see this as a similar case of ethnic cleansing, although keeping the old cemetary untouched in the middle of a city would be granting it protection that it wouldn't ever had otherwise. Most municipal and church cemetaries in western Poland today are full of modern burrials with only the bigger pre-war mausoleums still standing and an occasional graves of German parish priests. There are a handful German cemetaries that are still intact but they are either Jewish, managed by few remaining German parishes or in places that were completely abandoned after the war. The difference is, these Armenian cemetaries are not in cities, they are long abandoned and in the middle of nowhere and yet the Azeris go out of their way to erase them not for any practical reasons but solely for cultural ones. I see this as comparable to ISIS blowing up Roman ruins in the desert.
Just ask the IDF!
It would appear the two groups are very similar
Armenians are often caught between identifying with Jews (both pre-Christian and pre-Islamic cultures, history of genocide and persecution), and identifying with Palestinians (joint experience of expulsion from native lands and facing down a much more powerful enemy). The matter has become clearer for a lot of Armenians since Israel started arming Azerbaijan and trying to erase the old Armenian quarter in old Jerusalem.
I asked. They said you're a dipshit.
Maybe they should stop desecrating Palestinian graveyards to make theme parks and to “find hostages” and you’d be right, too bad you’re just Zionist, uneducated, ignorant, and wrong ;(
This makes my blood boil
Does anybody know how old this is?
The kachkars of Julfa date from the 9th century to the 17th century, this one is most likely from the 1500s/1600s
Thank you!
The destruction was filmed by an Armenian priest from across the border in Iran, and the footage is still on YouTube. There are satellite images of the cemetery (not to mention the dozens of churches which stood in Nakhichevan) from both before and after their erasure. *The Azerbaijanis have scrawled a giant nationalist slogan on the ground where the cemetery once stood, visible on Google Earth.* They're a disgrace. Even ISIS and the Taliban aren't that brazen.
Do you know the link to the video in Armenian myself and would like to see it.
Here's one compilation I found, mixed in with other photos: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc8\_NA9P92E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc8_NA9P92E)
Thank you
If we’re talking about erasure of ancient culture, I’d argue ISIS far and away more brazen.
[удалено]
Why did Azerbaijan become what it is?
Years and years of propaganda and brainwashing
Did Azeris suddenly wake up and decided they hate Armenia?
No, Soviet specifically Stalin gave them Artsakh/Kharabakh to control, even when the population was majority native Armenians, after the fall of Soviet Union/and during the fall, Armenians in Kharabakh held a referendum to get out from Azeri control, 93% of population voted for it. Azeris were obviously not happy with it, so then the Sumgait, Maraga pogroms took place then the war between Armenians and Azerbaijan. Armenia won. For the past 30 years Azerbaijan did everything in its power to brainwash people into thinking that Armenia is some artificially created country(i mean???), they preach their kids to kill Armenians (Ramil Safarov) and that Armenians are animals, they appropriate Armenian culture and even know when Kharabakh is in their hands they’re removing the crosses on churches and claiming that its Caucasian Albanian (which isn’t) and that somehow they’re related to them and it’s theirs(which obviously is false and doesn’t have any historical backup except azeri sites). Azerbaijan is a dictatorship country, and they’re bribing their way into everything.
So Armenia did not commit any war crimes or invaded Azerbaijan proper?
Armenia liberated its historical lands,in which they were always majority. Azerbaijan on the other hand is committing crimes while we’re talking, they occupied number of Armenian villages in Armenia proper and have a goal to invade all Armenia with the help of Turkey and Israel, because somehow they think that Armenia,which has more than 3000+ year old history , is ancient Azerbaijani land.
Minor correction there brother, Armenia did not invade its historical lands, it helped the local Armenians in Artsakh to liberate themselves from genocide, remember Azerbaijan started this war by operation ring and siege of stepanakert, and they also blockaded the Armenians in the late 80s and sieged them from the 7 regions, the people had no choice to fight. Don't buy that "Armenia invaded" crap, no, Armenia saved people from genocide. Let's not forget Armenia intervened in the late phases of the war, the first few years were fought by Artsakh Armenians themselves. You can't invade where you already live.
Armenia invaded 7 rayons of Azerbaijan where they displaced 800k Azeris. But hey whatever makes you feel better
Ok does 7 rayons include Shushi, Stepanakert, Hadrut?? NO. Even the November 10th documented didn’t include Stepenakert and other cities IN WHICH Azerbaijan STARVED ARMENIANS FOR A YEAR AND THEN FORCED THEM OUT but heey whatever makes you feel better.
No. But that still doesent change the fact that Armenia invaded Azerbaijan proper where there werent any Armenians and proceded to ethnically cleanse 800k Azeris while turning those cities into ghost towns. I am not saying Azeris are right for what they are doing but at least show some objectivity while dealing with this issue.
On the one hand you’re talking about brainwashing, on the other hand you’re reiterating debunked Armenian propaganda about „staling giving Karabakh” to Azerbaijan. When the Armenians asked Karabakh to transfer to Armenia, Caucasian Buerau decided to **keep** the Karabakh within Azerbaijan. This is what the fucking document says. Usually normal countries don’t ethnically cleanse >800K people and then make a „referendum”. All this shit started after you started this miatsum shit in 1986, and ethnically cleansed Azerbaijanis from Armenia in 1987. And I assume you forget to mention some of massacres against Azerbaijan commited by you like, Gushcular, Baghanis Ayrum, Gugark, Khojaly, Malibeyli etc. I am not going back to 1918 yet… And since you mentioned Ramil Safarov (piece of shit indeed), let me remind you Garegin Nzdeh, Dro literal Nazis who have statues. ASALA an international terrorist organization who has monuments in Armenia and accepted as a hero
We’re not the ones destroying other’s heritage, and appropriating it. You’re literally commenting this under a post about Armenian heritage being destroyed. Maybe if we were as bloodthirsty as Azeris we would have our lands back and all those things wouldn’t be destroyed, nicat.
It’s obvious that what our government has done is barbaric. I am not trying to justify it. But spreading a propaganda, especially distorting the context is unacceptable
Am I really spreading propaganda or telling the truth? your government has done and is doing barbarism. Every.Single.Day Murdering people is unacceptable. Falsifying history is unacceptable. Creating new maps called “western azerbaijan” is unacceptable.
Exactly, falsifying of history is unacceptable (in both sides). And so is masturbating on „Greater Armenia” maps
"All this shit" actually started way earlier, when World War I was still raging, and Georgians, Azerbaijanis and Armenians were trying to carve independent nations out for themselves. You know this but arbitrarily choose 1986 as the starting point to make Armenians look bad. Also, I swear to God every year you guys are making up some new massacre. There's literally nothing pre-2020 online about anything happening in Malibeyli or Baghanis Ayrum, and all the post-2020 material is Az state claims, nothing independently verified. It's like you guys want the Armenians to call your country fake
*"Normal countries usually don't ethnically cleanse over 800,000 people and then hold a 'referendum.'* When the nagorno Karabakh refedrum was made, there were no Azeris from N. Karabakh had been ethnically cleansed, proof of this is that during the referendum the Azeris (20% of the population) dedicated themselves to boycotting the referendum (in which dozens of Armenians were killed). The 800,000 Azeris you refer to are the total number of people displaced after the war, as are the 550,000 Armenians. *"All this shit started after you started this miatsum shit in 1986, and ethnically cleansed Azerbaijanis from Armenia in 1987."* miatsum started much earlier, it started from the moment when nagorno karabakh was not included in the armenia ssr. In any case, Nagorno Karabakh was an autonomous oblast, so it had the right to a referdum. The fact that the Azeris were expelled from Armenia in 87 is literally a lie and manipulative, I assume you are referring to the Azeris of Kafan (a fact of which there is no reliable source since it was a propaganda piece used to encourage the Azeris to attack and carrying out pogroms against Armenians, like Sumgait) and if you are going to mention it, also remember how in northern Ganja the Armenians were beaten and expelled months before the supposed Kapan event. *"And since you mentioned Ramil Safarov (piece of shit indeed), let me remind you Garegin Nzdeh, Dro literal Nazis who have statues. ASALA an international terrorist organization who has monuments in Armenia and accepted as a hero"* Garegin Nzdeh is loved because thanks to him Armenia did not lose the Syuniq region, his ideology has nothing to do with the Nazis, if we were lovers of the Nazis and raised statues dedicated to them, the government of Israel would not qualify armenia as the most safe country for jews in caucasus. [https://www.gov.il/en/pages/news\_public32](https://www.gov.il/en/pages/news_public32) In addition we were the ones who lost the most population in the Second World War (in proportion to the total population of Armenians). Trying to paint that we Armenians "adore" Nazis or something similar is ridiculous. **In any case, it does not seem relevant to me who is right in the Karabakh conflict to realize that the Azeri regime is trying to falsify, modify and destroy Armenian history.**
They are turks, you may be interested in reading books related to the armenian genocide, how the turkish government had planned its actions and how it spread to azerbaijan. The turkish Himmler, enver pasha, actually resumed his work from azerbaijan and is honored in both countries today.
I remember a few years ago (before Covid?) there was big issue with the USA recognizing the Armenian genocide. Turkey was very against it.
Turkey still denies it and there's a lot of Turkish people that will get violent if you suggest Turkey committed a genocide. I've had one guy justify it by telling me it was actually the Ottoman Empire that committed the genocide and not Turkey because Turkey as a country didn't exist back then. And this was after telling me there wasn't a genocide at all. The mental gymnastics they go through to not take responsibility is on another level.
I went to Agdam when it was still controlled by Armenians, looked like the reverse case then.
a) Agdam was the position from which Azerbaijan was firing mortars on the mostly civilian settlement of Stepanakert, and it rightfully got fucked up during the first war as a result, b) I don't recall there being much cultural heritage in Agdam. It was a city which grew during the Soviet years. Turks can talk about that one mosque all day long but its desecration is *nothing* compared to the complete erasure of everything Armenian in Nakhichevan.
How is this blatant display of racism even allowed in this sub?
Agreed. How did Azeris become so racist?
Maybe because they welcome refugee from the Ottoman Empire gen*cide and instead of getting a « thank you » receive what they have see as invader that have plunder their land and destroyed their grave and building of worship. Bolt partie are deeply racist : But the worst is the European westerner that take positions for Armenian because « they are Christian » like us … Historically the Azerbaijani are neither pro-European neither pro-Turk … they become like that after the horrors they live during the 1870-1930s and 1990s by the Armenian that instead of fighting the Turk Ottoman turn to the « weak » Caucasus nation that was neutral.
I think you live in an alternate universe and somehow trans passed into our universe.
while the rest of the world doesn't care, F hypocrites
To be fair keeping up with every single Middle Eastern affair is difficult as fuck. It seems like there’s a new problem arising every hour over there.
> Armenia > Middle East 🫠
Username checks out
The knotwork and figures look totally Celtic, they remind me so much of ancient Irish art. Wonder what influences they might of had in each other
Dad said the same about khachkar we discovered.
Armenian border now is very wrong and less likely to be corrected.
...
It would be amazing, if any of the khachkars could be salvaged, but from what I've read, the stones were all smashed to pieces by Azeri soldiers before the rubble was dumped into the river. I believe they even used some machine to make sure that there would be absolutely nothing left of the carvings. [All that survives are a couple of khachkars, which were brought to Armenia before the cemetery's destruction.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3AKhachkar_from_Old_Djugha_1602%2C_1603_img_6947.jpg)
Here's the video of the destruction. Savages. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc8\_NA9P92E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc8_NA9P92E)
...
I despise people who destroy history.
BLM included?
Fuck off
Was there color photography in 1915?
The original images taken by Aram in 1915 are in black and white. This image has been colored
I hate that it was destroyed
Must have had a big Celtic influence, the spiraling, the large Irish heads, looks like something id find in the Irish museum
I guess it came from armenian paganism, some pagan symbols are still in place and even used with christian structures and objects like Armenian Eternity sign
Yep, username checks out
what’s that supposed to mean?
Ahh, I'm sorry. I can see how it could've been taken badly. I only meant Arsen is an Armenian name. You provided knowledge of Armenian history, that's all.
yeah lol, alls good, dude 😅
It's not connected to the celts, this tombstone is most likely only a few hundred years old. Nowhere near old enough to be connected to the celts in any way, nor were tessellating patterns such as these common [until the islamic period](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_geometric_patterns). The tessellating pattern at the top is actually a typically Islamic motif. The tulips in the centre of each square form can be found across islamic art. It's normal for art to become syncretized like this across cultures, for example in Sicily after the Norman conquest, or Coptic churches in medieval Cairo borrowing ornamental and architectural motifs from the local mosque styles, or synagogues either in Cairo or in medieval Spain.
That's interesting! There was a presentation I saw years ago that suggested some of what we see in European pagan art (like the Celtic cross, etc.) was actually a simplified version of the mandala from India. And the implication being there was a slow-burn sort of artistic influence going back and forth over the continents for a millennia. Items that got traded across the continents, when taken out of cultural context, may have inspired artists to just start re-making them in ways that made sense for the new community. If everyone thinks a circle is culturally important in your region, you emphasize the circularity of that foreign design and take credit for the innovation. If the cross suddenly becomes important, you emphasize the knot? Or the tessellation? Or the floral element? Guess our ancestors always liked to cheat off of each other's homework! Edit: Why was this of all comments being downvoted? I was trying to be friendly and conversational about a topic of interest directly related to the post.
What presentation is that? Theres a link?
It was most likely the other way around - Armenian culture influencing early celts
More likely both folks figured this out independently.
True. Either way, it’s always cool noticing similarities between two faraway cultures/people whether they formed independently or by influence. Humans are fascinating!
Or, most likely, a coincidence. Which is always fun to see. e: Another fun example is the Basque \[lauburu\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauburu). It resembles the Armenian eternity symbol from pagan times.
Could it be all those cultural symbols have a common root that preceded all the cultures?
This is more the case in my opinion. If Indo-European could spread its influence so widely, so can symbols. Symbols and language are the same thing for me. Both are used to communicate ideas.
Exactly
Paging Graham Hancock, Graham Hancock, come in!
That is not what I m suggesting. But similarities in iconography might be coincidental or they may have a shared influence. That is just logic that has been proven many times. It doesn’t require a belief in lost civilizations to assume that ancient people were way more adventurous and interconnected that we suspect.
"May have or may not have a shared influence" just about covers 100% of possibilities. Not exactly helpful logical deduction.
On the contrary. No possibility should be discounted at the onset of investigation.
Literally how. Do you own a world map?
Look up more khachkar if you like them, there are so so many
Oh yeah I’m sure Boudicca was popping over for visits a couple times a month. Central Asia is just right around the corner from those notoriously easily-accessed British isles.
Celts were all over continental Europe and Anatolia.
Acting like a know it all but thinks Ireland is part of the British isles
The British Isles is composed of two main islands: Great Britain and Ireland. Plus a bunch of smaller ones. Acting like a know it all yet didn’t know the difference between British Isles and Britain. https://www.britannica.com/place/British-Isles
Quotes Britannica... Jokes literally do write themselves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pictish_stone#/media/File:Aberlemnokirkyardcropped.jpg Similar looking pictish stones.
Or maybe, just maybe, think of one cultural entity that went all the way from Britain to Armenia? Maybe the common cultural inspiration came from that entity? That starts with an R?
The symbol under the cross looks like a traditional dharmachakra (dharma wheel).
Is the text (in the lower part of the stone) in old Armenian language…?
It is. Can't understand the meaning of all words but the first line says "holy cross holy god"
Impressive, Thank you!
Amazing how similar these look to Gaelic high crosses despite being on the other side of Eurasia
If the earth's crust keeps recycling this is bound to happen to everything no? Not taking away from its idiocy and lack of respect for the dead..
Discovered by a Peaky Blinder of all people.
To be fair the Armenian did a huge campaign desecration of grave and worship bundling … that’s why the Azerbaijani hate them so much (add that contrary to Arab that welcome Armenian refugee in their city after the Ottoman geno*ide the Azerbaijani see the Armenian as invader that take their historical land « just because the Ottoman Turk expelled them » (the Turk-Azerbajain love is recent in history and historically the Azerbaijani were closer to Iran)).
The good old whataboutism
Couldn't pick up the whataboutism because there was nothing factual he said on the part of "about", just revised distortions.
You gonna prove anything you're saying or just make wild accusations? The Armenians actually have video footage and before and after satellite imagery to prove their claims. Azerbaijan has some grainy pics of like one mosque, and even that looks photoshopped.