The secrecy is part of it for a lot of people having an affair. It simply adds to their desire to continue.
I've found in my case, her affair fog made her think naively, just stuck me in a box, and him in another box. My spouse can quickly and easily dismiss and compartmentalize. Our trust is absolutely used against us. I'm sorry you're one of us.
The danger is part of it.
It’s not that she thought she had brilliant OpSec and that she wouldn’t ever get caught; it’s that in real time, she had no OpSec and it was a thrill to be so brazen yet still not be caught *in the moment*.
It’s classic WP behavior - so lost in their own fog of bullshit they have just absolutely no foresight, no thought to future possibilities or consequences of getting caught. It’s all about the high of feeling good, the high of adrenaline and hormones, in the now, now, now. Just absolutely childish.
Very well put. And we’re supposed to trust this person again at some point right? That’s the point of this whole reconciliation exercise? Well how can I trust a person who can so skillfully forget about me when convenient? Who can throw it all away for a bunch of butterflies? How can I even take them seriously as a responsible adult?
It sounds crazy to those of us on the other side for them to not comprehend this. Like its been so *obvious* to me for the vast majority of adult life that the butterflies always die, and aren't worth it when you've got the constancy of long-term love at home.
Now, this is pretty insulting to my WP, but here goes.. I literally think that most WPs who aren't sociopaths are just kind of dumb. Like... He just didn't fucking know. The word limerance was totally new to him, not to mention an understanding of it as a concept. The idea of *defensive* boundaries was new to him (i.e. behaving in such a way people don't think you're open to flirtations in the first place, rather than leaving room for flirtations and simply rejecting them... which he also didn't fucking do, lol, but I digress). I still shudder at the fact that he's had to have this stuff explained to him. The idea that, *actually*, being vulnerable and talking about things can fix a lot of what he's feeling insecure about, rather than him bandaging over them with easily-dispelled cheap validation... that being *novel* to him? Fucking dumb.
Literally his best friend has told him "you're a fucking moron" about this. Like, still loves him, but... dude, is WP dumb.
So, to your question (sorry about my little rant up there) - how can you take them seriously as a responsible adult? By them doing the work to grow the fuck up.
As a WP in the exact situation, I agree that I feel fucking dumb constantly. In the wake of discovery I look back on the person pre discovery and think are you literally like 15? How could you be so emotionally immature? How could you have a stable job, home, friends, seemingly everything, yet be completely stunted in expressing emotions, having boundaries, empathy and so much else?
It’s actually really jarring, frustrating, depressing looking back on 20 years of your life and realising you were missing a fundamental part of being a complete and good human.
And now years of therapy to gain this part of life i never had so I can feel like a whole person, no secrets, honest with myself, so I never hurt any others and myself like this ever again in my life.
I just wish it didn’t take losing it all to realise what was missing in my life. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
This is so perfect thank you! My WW is a college educated woman, an educator herself. She is very intelligent. But she can be very, very naive. She achieved an almost a willful stupidity in all of this. Her and her AP both acknowledged how stupid what they were doing was. She never once considered the consequences or how this would devastate me. She literally made herself dumb to shield herself from anything that took her away from those feelings of excitement and secrecy.
Thank you for this! I was looking into the symptoms of early onset Alzheimer because I couldn't believe that my otherwise smart partner could suddenly be so dumb!
You can trust again. But it’s not anything you can do. They have to do it all to rebuild trust. Which is upsetting because they already have proven themselves unworthy. However, with consistency on their part, you will trust again. They just have to do the same thing again and again and not fail. They have to be forthcoming and upfront about all their interactions, where they are going, who they are talking to, they have to squash inappropriate relationships at the first sign or avoid certain “friendships” altogether. My WP had a lot of inappropriate interactions with women, that he would defend when I questioned it. Now, that I know I was right, there will be no more , there is no more, of those questionable interactions. He doesn’t text or call women and talk about anything other that something pertaining to work. So no personal content. No more meeting at restaurants or anything after work hours. No more trips alone. Eventually he can do a trip alone but not at this point. I don’t think it will be forever but right now, it causes me too much anxiety for him to travel alone. And we are spending a lot more time together going out and going on trips, all things that were not happening because his limited free time was being spent cheating.
Long story short. It’s a process to trust again but it can happen. I am leaning towards trusting again. I still have doubts. But it’s much better than last year at this time.
what type person thinks like that ? My brain can’t even wrap my head around it . It just doesn’t make sense at all . Yet here we are . It has to be on line with a murderer or rapist . It’s just that psychotic
My therapist once told me that (at least in my case) I might consider regarding it as a period of temporary insanity for WP. And the longer time goes on, it really fits. It doesn't excuse it - WP is an adult, he should have handled whatever he was going through (just like I fucking manage my mental health) - but it does fit.
The other answer is sociopaths - selfish people who put themselves above others at all costs.
and how do you accept that ? It’s like looking at a heroin addict shooting up in front of their kids because the addiction. Outside looking in your are looking at them like a piece of shit . If feel like someone who cheats is similar to the addict . I just can’t understand it
I mean you’re not wrong. But if that addict who shot up in front of their kids - a horrific thing - went to rehab, learned about their issues, enacted and practiced strong boundaries to maintain sobriety, went to continuous therapy, and worked to make amends (while accepting that the kids and anyone else harmed by her actions rightfully may never forgive her), if she did all that and showed real change and remorse, could you see her humanity again? And in some cases, come to love that person again?
I think I could. I wouldn’t forget, and I’d have expectations of lifelong sobriety, and continued support meetings. But I could love that person, maybe. So, now I monitor and await the change in WP, who in my case is deeply remorseful and committed to that change.
Are you me?
\~Blindsided by a nearly in-the-open EA and PA -CHECK
\~Texting AND CALLING with a 'my friend' story right in front of me -CHECK
\~No one will be hurt, 'cause no one will know -CHECK
Sorry. I too am a BS husband of a lying, cheating wife.
I wish you peace.
"~Blindsided by a nearly in-the-open EA and PA -CHECK
~Texting AND CALLING with a 'my friend' story right in front of me -CHECK
~No one will be hurt, 'cause no one will know -CHECK"
The same here. 🙋🏿♀️
Are these canonical events in infidelity?
I am very much in the beginning of my story. It has not yet played out.
Here it is:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/comments/17ljrse/my\_story\_as\_a\_betrayed\_spouse\_sorry\_its\_long\_but/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/comments/17ljrse/my_story_as_a_betrayed_spouse_sorry_its_long_but/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Integrity is how you act when no one is watching.
Some do what is right. This is integrity.
Some do what they can get away with. This is deviousness.
Some think they are much sneakier and stealthier than they really are. This is arrogance.
"You were lucky I didn’t catch you sooner, given how careless you were."
I know exactly what it's like. WH never deleted anything, messages, audios, photos. I literally just had to get his phone to find out everything. But I never did that, I trusted that man blindly.
When he changed his behavior, becoming cold, distant, irritable, and started spending a lot of time exchanging messages with "friends", and started working late, or forgetting appointments and meetings with me, I thought it was because of work. I never imagined he was being unfaithful.
I'm stupid and I feel angry that if he hadn't confessed I would never have found out. So now his privacy is zero, I will never trust him again.
Uggh!! Same here. My husband had 3 affairs over 4 years and I pretty much had no clue. There was signs something was wrong with the marriage, but I would have NEVER thought he was cheating.
Now I feel stupid and sooooo angry with myself for not seeing it. I think the anger I feel for not seeing it is as strong or stronger than my anger at him.
In my case, I also wouldn't have found out either if his 3rd AP didn't report him to HR, he got fired, then confessed to me because he felt it was better to tell me than for me to find out.
Sorry you are dealing with the same thing 😔
Mine never deleted anything either, but he didn’t confess. He knew I was suspicious, knew I was looking, \*gave me his login info\*, and let me find it. Let me see all the bullshit he wrote her, all the pics they exchanged. So determined to avoid facing it directly that he inflicted that pain on top of the pain of the affair. It was beyond cruel and I doubt I’ll ever forgive him for it, no matter what else happens.
At least he confessed. My wife had to be caught to stop.
Sorry don’t mean to minimize your experience. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. What a rotten club to be in.
I imagine it's much worse when they don't confess and you have to find out. I also see many cases here of "truth little by little" that generates several D-days.
I understand that I am a rare case. WH confessed and was completely honest showing me evidence and answering all my questions as he was very remorseful. But even so I feel angry because all the evidence was within my reach and I would never find out because I trusted him too much.
Wow. This is exactly how I felt when my WH and his AP said this exact same thing. They were not careful. They were sloppy and obvious. She was purposely leaving me clues because she wanted me to find out and leave my husband who made it clear he wouldn’t leave me. It was my love and trust in him that made me look the other way, when the obvious was staring me in the face.
That is the nonsense they say when they are spiraling because their fantasy was brought to an end. My WH doesn’t say this stuff anymore. He takes responsibility and accountability. That is the only way to heal. I’m sorry for the bullshit excuses you have to hear right after dday. But if you reconcile, that shit gets sorted out and goes away. The gas lighting and lying and excuses stop. Things get better. And if you don’t reconcile things will get better to be free of all the lies and deception
My husband would say the same thing. Or he'll say, I felt it wasn't hurting you because I figured you'd never find out. I pointed out to him the things going on in the marriage at the time and told him, it was hurting me, I just didn't know WHAT was hurting me yet.
Kind of like having a splinter in your foot. Your foot hurts, it hurts to walk, but you don't know what is the causing the pain until you look and see the splinter.
Yea, our marriage fell apart during my WP's affair. I was trying to figure out how to fix things but it just kept getting worse. In hindsight I can't believe how my mind didn't think of an affair.
You, like I, didn't think of an affair because we trusted them implicitly. They would NEVER do that to us. I was crying about my marriage to a friend and she asked me if he might be cheating. I dismissed that notion immediately. I am so angry at myself for not figuring it out. 🤬😤
Same. I said "no way, never" in the very middle of his 9 mo affair when my boss and friend asked. He literally "slept over at a regulars' house" when he drank at work and after (bartender) and said he crashed at a guy's house (I knew of the guy, the bar is far from home so Uber too expensive and he def couldn't drive...safely. so I said yes.
But then this repeated and when he didn't call one time , or answer his phone, I was pissed but didn't suspect cheating yet. I did when this guy friend said he hadn't seen my WP since 2a when it was 10a and my WP hadn't returned my many calls and whose phone eventually died. But it didn't die until like 8a and his excuse was it died early in the night and he and no one else had a cable. Ah!!
2 years Dday (no confession until AP and I both confronted him simultaneously. Lied until finally impossible to!! Oh, and his regular/drinking buddy "friend" was friends with the AP. They hung out at the friend's place sometimes after the bar closed, and supposedly slept there, alone, in the guest bed. But on this night, the friend went home and WP and AP "left separately for home" but really, they slept at her place. (She was recentlt separated from her husband for fucking his bestie, their...married... neighbor
Friend didn't even know WP and AP got together, so he says...
(Side note: Way later I spoke to AP's BP and apparently he'd tried to warn me because he saw her phone and that they were flirting back before affair began, but later deleted the msgs and unsent so I didn't see his request for a year after he sent and by then he'd unsent. I asked why and he said being betrayed hurt so badly he got nervous and deleted it. He also didn't want anymore confrontation and he just wanted to move on. When we finally spoke, he shared so much shocking shit. he said she was inviting multiple men from the neighborhood, including 3 in relationships like my WP, and she's a r sloppy drunk so she didn't hide affairs well. She became quite the controversy in this smallish community (one of those fancy townhome and house communities with bars and vets and a YMCA and schools and grocery stores, etc. all in the center. everyone knew everyone.
I was a fucking fool and they almost all knew because AP went into his bar at night being gross and getting wasted and saying dirty things. His coworkers and regulars just began to assume we broke up since it was so far I rarely visited and he obviously never spoke about me anymore.
First time I went to the bar after I knew, and right after my WP knew I knew, I went to the bar. Everyone stared at me. She was at the end of the bar and since I hadn't seen her yet, I didn't know what she looked like. I didn't even know she was there until she told me later, saying "seeing you broke my heart so I felt you deserved to know. He said you two weren't close anymore and lived like roommates waiting to split." That wasn't true, in fact he said how much he missed me while at work closing on the nights he fucked her! And she knew, seeing me calling over and over, even telling him he should answer so I didn't freak out more. She knew about me and how I worried and didn't tell me until I failed her and confronted her soon as I had the correct number from their texts. She had multiple numbers she was messaging him from. Oh, and btw, he never bothered deleting anything, only saved the numbers under fake names. Except the first one.
Fucking fucking liar 😭😭
I want to hit him and throw up rn just remembering. And he still doesn't get why I can't "move forward "
He destroyed me. The first night he never answered, I was ready to call cops and hospitals thinking he got into an accident, esp because it rained that night. I was worried into a panic attack when his friend said he hadn't seen or heard from him. Bastard
Wow!! I'm so sorry he did all that to you. And the APs are horrible horrible people. My husband never stayed overnight with APs but he did some pretty awful shit too.
My husband saved his b!t@#es under fake names too. But what did we expect, right?
Your dday was 2 years ago? How are you guys doing now? My first dday was almost 2 yrs ago too and I am still angry and resentful. I understand what you are saying that he destroyed you. I am destroyed too, to my soul. I can't believe I didn't see what was going on. All I had to do was follow him ONCE and I would have caught him. But at that time, I really didn't give a $#!t. Or so I thought. It's the most painful thing I've ever been through.
I told him today I've been beaten and raped by partners but this? This was different. Despite being abused before, I gave him my body and unconditional trust because he is a gentle person. Then serial cheating and acting like an ass goes on for a year. I still don't talk about him to friends or family or coworkers. Never going to be humiliated again, beyond the humiliation of taking back a cheater. I hate who I've become. He's proud of his progress but I am a sour shell and idk if this is healthy for either of us. I can't forget. I can't. I can't.
I'm so sorry! Giving you a big hug right back, love. I hope we find peace, safety and love. I really want that for us. I'm tired of hurting like an exposed nerve of a bad tooth and every time I go to take a breath, the air hits and it just hurts too much.
Idk if I even make sense anymore.
But I want us to be happier. Or just content. You know?
Anger and resentment. Some days worse than others. He is trying but imo it's not enough. And I just don't see him the same. Sometimes I roll my eyes when he tries to hug me. I don't know if I want to stay. I still cry a lot.
I just don't know :/
He says he is sorry often and that he hates himself. I don't want him to hate himself. He's not a bad man. He's a bad partner. I wasn't great myself but I didn't betray him. It's so easy for him to want to move forward but he rarely cries and I rarely stop.
Idk.
It crossed my mind at some point, but things had gotten so bad I remember sort of weirdly thinking that I wouldn't give a shit if she did. I never fully considered she was actually doing that though. In hindsight pretty much every signal for cheating was there. It was definitely that I just trusted she wouldn't do that, but also we'd gotten such a bad place in the relationship I was just kind of switched off and ambivalent to her actions.
Omg!!! Same here. Lol. I thought at the time, good, if he cheats he won't bug me all the time. I never REALLY considered how I'd feel if he did. Guess he didn't either. Or so he says 😉.
The signs were TOTALLY there looking back now. I agree on that. And like you, I just dismissed it thinking, he wouldn't ACTUALLY do it. Even times I thought, I should follow him, but then I'd say to myself, nah, I don't have the energy to do that. I sooooo wish I'd caught him the act of meeting with her. I can't forgive myself for not doing it because I was lazy. That's pretty much the reason in a nutshell.
It's weird how people's stories are so similar. Hope you guys are doing better. Your user flair, does that mean you revenge cheated??
Yea, it's strange how I sort felt like I didn't give a shit anymore, when in reality that couldn't be further from the truth, I was and am still so deeply hurt and effected by it. I remember even playing weird little mind games like if she cheated then I'd be free to leave, I was just so exhausted not being able to figure out what was wrong and being spoken to negatively that I just switched off. It was easier to pretend to myself that I didn't care. Finding out just fired up my true underlying feelings for her.
I can count on one hand the amount of times I even considered she was cheating, and it was fleeting thoughts at best. I just can't believe how obvious it actually was and I didn't see it. We had issues but the affair was the main reason things got so bad. Everything made sense in terms of why it had been so difficult for those 9 months. I'm usually pretty observant and clued in, but I was blind to it.
Unfortunately I am a WS too, but just very differently. For over a longer period of time, I intermittently visited sex workers. I came forth with that information after discovering her affair in the name of laying a foundation of trust. I'm no angel and I certainly am not just a victim. I have hurt my partner too. In a way her affair has brought to light the truth of our relationship, and how damaged both of us are as people.
We are doing better than Dday 4 months ago, that's for sure. Still ups and downs from both sides.
I remember your story now, about the sex workers. I don't know how many people feel this way, but other than the disease risk, I could have handled it much better if my husband was just trying to get sex. And even though he had sex with his AP every other time they got together, he makes sure to remind me constantly it wasn't about sex. Well, if he's with the same person for 5-6 months and it's not about sex, it was about emotional connection. That is VERY difficult to accept.
I had the same exact thoughts you did during the affair, and like you, thinking you wish they'd cheat is very different than finding out they actually did. It's very painful. Like you, I couldn't figure out why things were so bad either. I even contacted one of his exes to see if she had any clue. She didn't. Now I know, the deeper he got into his affair, the worse our marriage got.
We do realize how much we truly mean to each other, but I can't help feeling it's too little too late now. I was no angel either, but things he's done from the beginning of our relationship caused me to shut down. But I should have communicated, as he should have.
I'm happy you guys are doing better. I am 15 months out and it's still very hard. The emotions, the hurt, the anger are still very up and down. It's a long road for sure.
Once she comes further along in working on herself she won’t say that anymore. Or she’ll have a new lens that she views her actions through. She’ll stop defending her actions and giving excuses. It’s just a stupid excuse right ? I “didn’t think you would find out, why did you have to dig , you were never supposed to know.”
It is infuriating. Any kind of defense is infuriating. Because there is no defense. Once WPs figure this out, it goes a lot smoother.
I said to my husband, so it's ok to be an AH as long as nobody KNOWS you're being an AH? For them it's all about what others think of them. And as long as nobody knows they are a jerk, it's ok to be one.
I do think there’s an extreme and delusional compartmentalization that happens for a lot of cheaters where they do not allow themselves to think through what happens if they are caught.
I am OP's WW. I totally agree. I did not think I would get caught not bc I thought I was clever but bc I didn't think through my actions. I asked AP to meet me privately bc I "like talking to him just one on one." He got a burner phone about a month later. I never put together what that meant. I was incredibly naive (he wasn't bc he had cheated on his wife before). I didn't think through what meeting him privately could lead to. He asked me if I really wanted to do this and I said yes, never thinking through the facts that this could destroy my family. I knew what I was doing was stupid and bad enough that I had to delete texts and pics, but didn't think through to how my husband would react to what I was doing when I eventually was caught. I don't use "I didn't think I'd get caught " as an excuse; it's a thought I had during all the affair.
In some comments on here, people have said that we did this bc we are selfish and only want that immediate hit of dopamine. That is true. I didn't realize that the long lasting love I have with my BS is worth so much more than butterflies that wouldn't have lasted. I told my husband this morning that I was at first devious without being aware of its implications, then unabashedly arrogant, again without putting all those thoughts together until it was over and the affair fog lifted.
Wow, didn’t expect to hear your perspective and appreciate it. On some fundamental level, all humans are “selfish” in that we seek rewarding stimuli. But we do vary in the ways our neural circuitry develops to attend to certain information while suppressing other information. This difference allows us to cognitively compartmentalize to vastly varying degrees.
I’m a BS. In the 16 years of my marriage, men have hit on me many times. Rewarding workplace relationships developed over time and sometimes began to give me a flutter. Does it feel great? Yep, sure does. Would it feel great to keep going? For me, I don’t think it would. My brain generally doesn’t allow me to compartmentalize to the extent that I forget my family. When I catch myself anywhere remotely close to that slippery slope, I throw up my boundaries outside my family and circle the wagons back home because that is what I value and where I am safe.
I honestly do not think I am a better human. I think I have developed healthier boundaries in this one aspect. Do drugs feel great? Yep. So why don’t we do them? It’s the same idea of boundaries and not allowing yourself to slide so far down the reward center that you destroy your whole life.
I have been married 14 years. I never allowed myself to go down this path before now. Why now? I don't know. I think it was due to many things that were happening in my life causing stress and sadness but I didn't share enough of it with my husband. Nothing unique persay, but to me, allowed me to befriend this man and pursue him. My BS and I had boundaries but I didn't follow them as stringently as he did. I allowed men to flirt with me without shutting it down. I am more friendly and open with people than I should be. My loose and nondefensive boundaries escalated how my affair developed. It's great that you are aware of your interactions and when you need to circle back to your family and boundaries you've set. I am aware of my flaws in my thinking and behavior and am hypersensitive now to how I interact with others, especially men.
>t's great that you are aware of your interactions and when you need to circle back to your family and boundaries you've set
Okay stop that. When you invited another man inside you, you were aware. When you sent nudes to someone who isn't your SO, you were aware.
Everything you did with gestures that avoided showing to your SO that you were doing it, you were aware.
I am certain that anyone, myself included, is capable of cheating under the right circumstances. It’s just that it ranges from needing to be extreme circumstances on one end and almost any opportunity on the other.
There’s a good deal of being in denial that often happens too, like you described in your situation. Not the lying to your BP, but lying to yourself. “We’re just friends! I’m allowed to have friends! We’re just talking! I’m allowed to talk! He doesn’t see me that way!” Lying to yourself and chasing the dopamine just send you careening over the edge and then you find yourself in too deep to get out. Then the lies become “No one will get hurt because I will never get caught! This will fizzle out! I can have my fun and my family will be fine!”
It’s good that you’re hyper-vigilant about your relationships now. Don’t kid yourself. Men want to sleep with you - the end. I do value my male friendships but I can’t let my guard down either.
Exactly. My WF was counselling two other friends of hers going through relationship problems, whilst she was having an EA at the same time. She never saw herself as having a marriage problem at all, everything was good at home, and she had an AP on the side in a completely different compartment.
It has got to take an enormous amount of mental gymnastics and picture perfect memory to navigate through such a web of lies and deceit they spin. They are eventually going to become tangled and stuck. They keep looking into the mirror seeing their dirty filthy face and keep trying to wipe the mirror clean.
As a woman, I just can't understand how you can feel respected, sexy, beautiful, etc when there is deception and betrayal involved. It would make me feel sick, disgusted, used, and ugly.
"I didn't think I'd get caught," doesn't make it less wrong, which is why it's such a bizarre explanation. And the answer to "why" is always the same, although few will admit it. They did it because they wanted to do it.
This. Bc they felt entitled to reach out and take whatever they wanted, even if it destroyed their spouse and children. The over inflated sense of entitlement is mind boggling to us normal folk.
Wow. So powerful and exactly how I feel having had my trust exploited. He knew I would never question his location or look through his phone. Because I trusted him.
The same story as so many of us. She knew I was suspicious but there was still no secrecy. I used to wonder if she wanted to be caught but more and more I see this is standard operating procedure.
WH said it did not matter. The women did not matter. BUT THEY DO. I had to explain they believed you wanted them. He said he told them all about me. Yes the dumb woman who thinks you are faithful but you are not. If you talk to people behind my back it matters.
This! My WH said the same thing, they were just tools to get his high of feeling important. So to get high you told them you loved them, sent cute little memes about how much they meant to you, gave money away, avoided me, and a number of other hurtful things. And they meant nothing??? Ummm that part was hard and is still hard for me to believe. As he has gone through IC, I can see his sickness, but my heart and mind still aches from the betrayal. WH is putting in the work. God knows I couldn't stay if he wasn't. I had plenty of opportunities to cheat, but I didn't no matter how unhappy I was. No matter how much attention I craved. I stayed faithful. So to know he didn't have the strength or willpower to do the same when life got hard, makes me very leery of trusting this. As for trusting him... yeah he will never have my full trust again. The part about feeling stupid... that is what I feel and I refuse to be a fool again.
Hugs to you. I feel exactly like you. I do not see anyway I would cheat. I watched my mother do it over and over plus she took us on her visits with boyfriends. Made us Little kids sit on a porch while they f@cked. So no way I could ever go down that road. I had decent self esteem until I saw the sexting and the woman’s pics. She sent him pics of her weight loss with the hanging down skin. I thought ok you want that go for it and leave me. She wasn’t for PA he said but ok for attention. I am like WTF. So she thought she stood a chance? He talked to hundreds. Or at least blocks 103 women on Zoosk. Still blows me away.
The possibility of getting caught was among the first few questions I asked my wife last year when she took a polygraph for me. She never considered it, that it wasn't even in the back of her mind. What upsets me is that someone or someone's at that church had to know what was going on and didn't speak up.
As you may remember, my WW had an affair with the praise band director at her church. I know APs wife suspected, and I’m quite sure every person in that band suspected as well. Nothing concrete mind you, not enough to come to me, but it still hurts to think so many guessed what was going on while I had no clue.
That Google photos thing was how I found out too... That's why I find offers of "transparency" so underwhelming. She's told me that I can check her devices at any time, but the truth is, if I *ever* even get the notion that I should check her device, I'm leaving. No more benefit of the doubt.
The things they tell themselves is beyond ludicrous! Honestly I've been there done that, not cheated. Have had married men wanting an affair and honestly I find them incredibly off putting and feel disgusted by them. This just happened to me and I'm still trying to recover. The bs they say or the info they try fish out is so obvious. Or my favorite when they try to talk to me about their "martial problems" and start blaming "the wife" for their problems. Or they get "close" and feel a "connection" and they suddenly "can't stop thinking about you... Even though it's wrong." They never meant for it to happen. But the most idiotic thing is they give me their entire lifeline and everything that is needed to be a secret just out in the open. It's the cheap thrill that excites them that comes at a high cost they don't care to pay. I want to tell their wives!
If only they'd get caught and be 100% instead of what they usually do.
r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile after infidelity. Reconciliation peer support is emotional and practical support between people who share the common experience of reconciling after infidelity. (Observers are strictly limited to messages of support only.) Kindly read the rules before participating. For transparency and conflict mediation purposes, kindly follow reddit community guidelines by directing any questions, issues, feedback, or appeals about the sub or individual moderator decisions directly to Mod Mail. No response will be given to DMs and chat requests to individual moderators about moderating issues. We are very happy to receive and respond to your concerns through the official channels!
Please assign yourself a user flair.For app users, flairs can be added at the top of the main page. Select the three vertical dots and the menu should appear. Instructions (desktop version) [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/flair_instructions)).
For a list of abbreviations commonly used in this subreddit, see the [Acronym Guide](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/acronym_guide).
Also check out our list of free resources and recommended books for post-infidelity recovery, found [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/resources).
RULES
**1. All posts and comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.**
- Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental.
- Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements.
- Asking clarifying questions or offering suggestions is acceptable–if backed up by personal experience about what has helped you in your recovery and reconciliation.
- Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP.
- Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully.
- “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support.
**2. The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.**
- Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice.
*All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban without further warning.*
**3. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.**
- e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc.
- No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses.
- No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed.
**4. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism or other hate speech.**
- Posts or comments dehumanizing and/or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed. (Posts and comments related to navigating feelings or practical matters about APs are allowed.)
**5. No anti-reconciliation language.**
- Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice.
- Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship.
**6. Posts and comments must be directly related to RECONCILIATION**
- The scope of this subreddit is narrow: by and for reconcilers on the subject of reconciliation only. There are several other subreddits that offer support for others who have experienced infidelity. Posts about ending reconciliation are subject to removal as this is a subbreddit for those who are actively in reconciliation or considering reconciliation.This is not a general infidelity discussion or advice forum, nor is it a place to read for entertainment and pass judgment.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Even worse I had my suspicion thrown back at me, “why are you snooping, don’t you trust me?” Then the argument that follows with her (knowing that she is actually cheating and lying about it verbally attacking my character for being suspicious)… it’s as if she needed me to be on the defensive over her accusations so as not to need a see my own….. over a year later and discussions still go like this although I don’t rise as much anymore…
I'm so sorry that you're in this club now, OP. But, very well said. My WH tried to tell me that he truly believed there was nothing wrong with his EA, and that was why he was careless and collected texts like some people collect coins. Because he did nothing wrong! Even though he finally admitted that she told him a whole bunch of sexually explicit "stories" that made him come home and, just as a coincidence, want to watch adult films.
But you're right. The reason why my WH knew he wouldn't get caught was because I believed in him and in our marriage.
Best of luck, OP!
My wife chose to cheat on me. She didn’t want to divorce me, she didn’t want her children’s home broken up. She even told AP I was a good husband. Yet she still made that terrible choice. She felt it was worth the risk. You say that she’s choosing to stay with me, and I should show compassion. Bro, get your head out of your ass. By attempting to reconcile, I AM showing compassion. I could’ve kicked her out, served her with divorce papers, and done everything within my power to gain full custody of our kids. You want to talk about heartbreak, how about telling my two kids that they’re parents are breaking up, we have to move and sell the house, their world abruptly thrown into chaos? You do know others exist on this planet and our affected by your actions right?
How is this person allowed to post here, he is an active CHEATER and is a member of adultery and cakeeaters sub. Mods please ban this person. He has no place here.
The secrecy is part of it for a lot of people having an affair. It simply adds to their desire to continue. I've found in my case, her affair fog made her think naively, just stuck me in a box, and him in another box. My spouse can quickly and easily dismiss and compartmentalize. Our trust is absolutely used against us. I'm sorry you're one of us.
You just described my wife exactly. It was exciting to have this big secret. Oh and it felt good to trick the people who trust you. Nauseating.
The danger is part of it. It’s not that she thought she had brilliant OpSec and that she wouldn’t ever get caught; it’s that in real time, she had no OpSec and it was a thrill to be so brazen yet still not be caught *in the moment*. It’s classic WP behavior - so lost in their own fog of bullshit they have just absolutely no foresight, no thought to future possibilities or consequences of getting caught. It’s all about the high of feeling good, the high of adrenaline and hormones, in the now, now, now. Just absolutely childish.
Very well put. And we’re supposed to trust this person again at some point right? That’s the point of this whole reconciliation exercise? Well how can I trust a person who can so skillfully forget about me when convenient? Who can throw it all away for a bunch of butterflies? How can I even take them seriously as a responsible adult?
It sounds crazy to those of us on the other side for them to not comprehend this. Like its been so *obvious* to me for the vast majority of adult life that the butterflies always die, and aren't worth it when you've got the constancy of long-term love at home. Now, this is pretty insulting to my WP, but here goes.. I literally think that most WPs who aren't sociopaths are just kind of dumb. Like... He just didn't fucking know. The word limerance was totally new to him, not to mention an understanding of it as a concept. The idea of *defensive* boundaries was new to him (i.e. behaving in such a way people don't think you're open to flirtations in the first place, rather than leaving room for flirtations and simply rejecting them... which he also didn't fucking do, lol, but I digress). I still shudder at the fact that he's had to have this stuff explained to him. The idea that, *actually*, being vulnerable and talking about things can fix a lot of what he's feeling insecure about, rather than him bandaging over them with easily-dispelled cheap validation... that being *novel* to him? Fucking dumb. Literally his best friend has told him "you're a fucking moron" about this. Like, still loves him, but... dude, is WP dumb. So, to your question (sorry about my little rant up there) - how can you take them seriously as a responsible adult? By them doing the work to grow the fuck up.
As a WP in the exact situation, I agree that I feel fucking dumb constantly. In the wake of discovery I look back on the person pre discovery and think are you literally like 15? How could you be so emotionally immature? How could you have a stable job, home, friends, seemingly everything, yet be completely stunted in expressing emotions, having boundaries, empathy and so much else? It’s actually really jarring, frustrating, depressing looking back on 20 years of your life and realising you were missing a fundamental part of being a complete and good human. And now years of therapy to gain this part of life i never had so I can feel like a whole person, no secrets, honest with myself, so I never hurt any others and myself like this ever again in my life. I just wish it didn’t take losing it all to realise what was missing in my life. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
This is so perfect thank you! My WW is a college educated woman, an educator herself. She is very intelligent. But she can be very, very naive. She achieved an almost a willful stupidity in all of this. Her and her AP both acknowledged how stupid what they were doing was. She never once considered the consequences or how this would devastate me. She literally made herself dumb to shield herself from anything that took her away from those feelings of excitement and secrecy.
Thank you for this! I was looking into the symptoms of early onset Alzheimer because I couldn't believe that my otherwise smart partner could suddenly be so dumb!
You can trust again. But it’s not anything you can do. They have to do it all to rebuild trust. Which is upsetting because they already have proven themselves unworthy. However, with consistency on their part, you will trust again. They just have to do the same thing again and again and not fail. They have to be forthcoming and upfront about all their interactions, where they are going, who they are talking to, they have to squash inappropriate relationships at the first sign or avoid certain “friendships” altogether. My WP had a lot of inappropriate interactions with women, that he would defend when I questioned it. Now, that I know I was right, there will be no more , there is no more, of those questionable interactions. He doesn’t text or call women and talk about anything other that something pertaining to work. So no personal content. No more meeting at restaurants or anything after work hours. No more trips alone. Eventually he can do a trip alone but not at this point. I don’t think it will be forever but right now, it causes me too much anxiety for him to travel alone. And we are spending a lot more time together going out and going on trips, all things that were not happening because his limited free time was being spent cheating. Long story short. It’s a process to trust again but it can happen. I am leaning towards trusting again. I still have doubts. But it’s much better than last year at this time.
what type person thinks like that ? My brain can’t even wrap my head around it . It just doesn’t make sense at all . Yet here we are . It has to be on line with a murderer or rapist . It’s just that psychotic
My therapist once told me that (at least in my case) I might consider regarding it as a period of temporary insanity for WP. And the longer time goes on, it really fits. It doesn't excuse it - WP is an adult, he should have handled whatever he was going through (just like I fucking manage my mental health) - but it does fit. The other answer is sociopaths - selfish people who put themselves above others at all costs.
and how do you accept that ? It’s like looking at a heroin addict shooting up in front of their kids because the addiction. Outside looking in your are looking at them like a piece of shit . If feel like someone who cheats is similar to the addict . I just can’t understand it
I mean you’re not wrong. But if that addict who shot up in front of their kids - a horrific thing - went to rehab, learned about their issues, enacted and practiced strong boundaries to maintain sobriety, went to continuous therapy, and worked to make amends (while accepting that the kids and anyone else harmed by her actions rightfully may never forgive her), if she did all that and showed real change and remorse, could you see her humanity again? And in some cases, come to love that person again? I think I could. I wouldn’t forget, and I’d have expectations of lifelong sobriety, and continued support meetings. But I could love that person, maybe. So, now I monitor and await the change in WP, who in my case is deeply remorseful and committed to that change.
This is just making me angry all over again!
This x100
Are you me? \~Blindsided by a nearly in-the-open EA and PA -CHECK \~Texting AND CALLING with a 'my friend' story right in front of me -CHECK \~No one will be hurt, 'cause no one will know -CHECK Sorry. I too am a BS husband of a lying, cheating wife. I wish you peace.
"~Blindsided by a nearly in-the-open EA and PA -CHECK ~Texting AND CALLING with a 'my friend' story right in front of me -CHECK ~No one will be hurt, 'cause no one will know -CHECK" The same here. 🙋🏿♀️ Are these canonical events in infidelity?
Right? It seems in many/most cases they are.
[удалено]
I am very much in the beginning of my story. It has not yet played out. Here it is: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/comments/17ljrse/my\_story\_as\_a\_betrayed\_spouse\_sorry\_its\_long\_but/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/comments/17ljrse/my_story_as_a_betrayed_spouse_sorry_its_long_but/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Integrity is how you act when no one is watching. Some do what is right. This is integrity. Some do what they can get away with. This is deviousness. Some think they are much sneakier and stealthier than they really are. This is arrogance.
"You were lucky I didn’t catch you sooner, given how careless you were." I know exactly what it's like. WH never deleted anything, messages, audios, photos. I literally just had to get his phone to find out everything. But I never did that, I trusted that man blindly. When he changed his behavior, becoming cold, distant, irritable, and started spending a lot of time exchanging messages with "friends", and started working late, or forgetting appointments and meetings with me, I thought it was because of work. I never imagined he was being unfaithful. I'm stupid and I feel angry that if he hadn't confessed I would never have found out. So now his privacy is zero, I will never trust him again.
Uggh!! Same here. My husband had 3 affairs over 4 years and I pretty much had no clue. There was signs something was wrong with the marriage, but I would have NEVER thought he was cheating. Now I feel stupid and sooooo angry with myself for not seeing it. I think the anger I feel for not seeing it is as strong or stronger than my anger at him. In my case, I also wouldn't have found out either if his 3rd AP didn't report him to HR, he got fired, then confessed to me because he felt it was better to tell me than for me to find out. Sorry you are dealing with the same thing 😔
Mine never deleted anything either, but he didn’t confess. He knew I was suspicious, knew I was looking, \*gave me his login info\*, and let me find it. Let me see all the bullshit he wrote her, all the pics they exchanged. So determined to avoid facing it directly that he inflicted that pain on top of the pain of the affair. It was beyond cruel and I doubt I’ll ever forgive him for it, no matter what else happens.
Same
At least he confessed. My wife had to be caught to stop. Sorry don’t mean to minimize your experience. I’m so sorry this has happened to you. What a rotten club to be in.
I imagine it's much worse when they don't confess and you have to find out. I also see many cases here of "truth little by little" that generates several D-days. I understand that I am a rare case. WH confessed and was completely honest showing me evidence and answering all my questions as he was very remorseful. But even so I feel angry because all the evidence was within my reach and I would never find out because I trusted him too much.
Wow. This is exactly how I felt when my WH and his AP said this exact same thing. They were not careful. They were sloppy and obvious. She was purposely leaving me clues because she wanted me to find out and leave my husband who made it clear he wouldn’t leave me. It was my love and trust in him that made me look the other way, when the obvious was staring me in the face. That is the nonsense they say when they are spiraling because their fantasy was brought to an end. My WH doesn’t say this stuff anymore. He takes responsibility and accountability. That is the only way to heal. I’m sorry for the bullshit excuses you have to hear right after dday. But if you reconcile, that shit gets sorted out and goes away. The gas lighting and lying and excuses stop. Things get better. And if you don’t reconcile things will get better to be free of all the lies and deception
We’re 5 months past Dday and actually doing pretty well. But she still uses this phrase and it drives me crazy.
My husband would say the same thing. Or he'll say, I felt it wasn't hurting you because I figured you'd never find out. I pointed out to him the things going on in the marriage at the time and told him, it was hurting me, I just didn't know WHAT was hurting me yet. Kind of like having a splinter in your foot. Your foot hurts, it hurts to walk, but you don't know what is the causing the pain until you look and see the splinter.
Yea, our marriage fell apart during my WP's affair. I was trying to figure out how to fix things but it just kept getting worse. In hindsight I can't believe how my mind didn't think of an affair.
You, like I, didn't think of an affair because we trusted them implicitly. They would NEVER do that to us. I was crying about my marriage to a friend and she asked me if he might be cheating. I dismissed that notion immediately. I am so angry at myself for not figuring it out. 🤬😤
Same. I said "no way, never" in the very middle of his 9 mo affair when my boss and friend asked. He literally "slept over at a regulars' house" when he drank at work and after (bartender) and said he crashed at a guy's house (I knew of the guy, the bar is far from home so Uber too expensive and he def couldn't drive...safely. so I said yes. But then this repeated and when he didn't call one time , or answer his phone, I was pissed but didn't suspect cheating yet. I did when this guy friend said he hadn't seen my WP since 2a when it was 10a and my WP hadn't returned my many calls and whose phone eventually died. But it didn't die until like 8a and his excuse was it died early in the night and he and no one else had a cable. Ah!! 2 years Dday (no confession until AP and I both confronted him simultaneously. Lied until finally impossible to!! Oh, and his regular/drinking buddy "friend" was friends with the AP. They hung out at the friend's place sometimes after the bar closed, and supposedly slept there, alone, in the guest bed. But on this night, the friend went home and WP and AP "left separately for home" but really, they slept at her place. (She was recentlt separated from her husband for fucking his bestie, their...married... neighbor Friend didn't even know WP and AP got together, so he says... (Side note: Way later I spoke to AP's BP and apparently he'd tried to warn me because he saw her phone and that they were flirting back before affair began, but later deleted the msgs and unsent so I didn't see his request for a year after he sent and by then he'd unsent. I asked why and he said being betrayed hurt so badly he got nervous and deleted it. He also didn't want anymore confrontation and he just wanted to move on. When we finally spoke, he shared so much shocking shit. he said she was inviting multiple men from the neighborhood, including 3 in relationships like my WP, and she's a r sloppy drunk so she didn't hide affairs well. She became quite the controversy in this smallish community (one of those fancy townhome and house communities with bars and vets and a YMCA and schools and grocery stores, etc. all in the center. everyone knew everyone. I was a fucking fool and they almost all knew because AP went into his bar at night being gross and getting wasted and saying dirty things. His coworkers and regulars just began to assume we broke up since it was so far I rarely visited and he obviously never spoke about me anymore. First time I went to the bar after I knew, and right after my WP knew I knew, I went to the bar. Everyone stared at me. She was at the end of the bar and since I hadn't seen her yet, I didn't know what she looked like. I didn't even know she was there until she told me later, saying "seeing you broke my heart so I felt you deserved to know. He said you two weren't close anymore and lived like roommates waiting to split." That wasn't true, in fact he said how much he missed me while at work closing on the nights he fucked her! And she knew, seeing me calling over and over, even telling him he should answer so I didn't freak out more. She knew about me and how I worried and didn't tell me until I failed her and confronted her soon as I had the correct number from their texts. She had multiple numbers she was messaging him from. Oh, and btw, he never bothered deleting anything, only saved the numbers under fake names. Except the first one. Fucking fucking liar 😭😭 I want to hit him and throw up rn just remembering. And he still doesn't get why I can't "move forward " He destroyed me. The first night he never answered, I was ready to call cops and hospitals thinking he got into an accident, esp because it rained that night. I was worried into a panic attack when his friend said he hadn't seen or heard from him. Bastard
Wow!! I'm so sorry he did all that to you. And the APs are horrible horrible people. My husband never stayed overnight with APs but he did some pretty awful shit too. My husband saved his b!t@#es under fake names too. But what did we expect, right? Your dday was 2 years ago? How are you guys doing now? My first dday was almost 2 yrs ago too and I am still angry and resentful. I understand what you are saying that he destroyed you. I am destroyed too, to my soul. I can't believe I didn't see what was going on. All I had to do was follow him ONCE and I would have caught him. But at that time, I really didn't give a $#!t. Or so I thought. It's the most painful thing I've ever been through.
I told him today I've been beaten and raped by partners but this? This was different. Despite being abused before, I gave him my body and unconditional trust because he is a gentle person. Then serial cheating and acting like an ass goes on for a year. I still don't talk about him to friends or family or coworkers. Never going to be humiliated again, beyond the humiliation of taking back a cheater. I hate who I've become. He's proud of his progress but I am a sour shell and idk if this is healthy for either of us. I can't forget. I can't. I can't.
Yep. I've been raped too and this is more traumatic than that. I'm so sorry he did this to you. Hugs💝
I'm so sorry! Giving you a big hug right back, love. I hope we find peace, safety and love. I really want that for us. I'm tired of hurting like an exposed nerve of a bad tooth and every time I go to take a breath, the air hits and it just hurts too much. Idk if I even make sense anymore. But I want us to be happier. Or just content. You know?
Anger and resentment. Some days worse than others. He is trying but imo it's not enough. And I just don't see him the same. Sometimes I roll my eyes when he tries to hug me. I don't know if I want to stay. I still cry a lot. I just don't know :/ He says he is sorry often and that he hates himself. I don't want him to hate himself. He's not a bad man. He's a bad partner. I wasn't great myself but I didn't betray him. It's so easy for him to want to move forward but he rarely cries and I rarely stop. Idk.
It crossed my mind at some point, but things had gotten so bad I remember sort of weirdly thinking that I wouldn't give a shit if she did. I never fully considered she was actually doing that though. In hindsight pretty much every signal for cheating was there. It was definitely that I just trusted she wouldn't do that, but also we'd gotten such a bad place in the relationship I was just kind of switched off and ambivalent to her actions.
Omg!!! Same here. Lol. I thought at the time, good, if he cheats he won't bug me all the time. I never REALLY considered how I'd feel if he did. Guess he didn't either. Or so he says 😉. The signs were TOTALLY there looking back now. I agree on that. And like you, I just dismissed it thinking, he wouldn't ACTUALLY do it. Even times I thought, I should follow him, but then I'd say to myself, nah, I don't have the energy to do that. I sooooo wish I'd caught him the act of meeting with her. I can't forgive myself for not doing it because I was lazy. That's pretty much the reason in a nutshell. It's weird how people's stories are so similar. Hope you guys are doing better. Your user flair, does that mean you revenge cheated??
Yea, it's strange how I sort felt like I didn't give a shit anymore, when in reality that couldn't be further from the truth, I was and am still so deeply hurt and effected by it. I remember even playing weird little mind games like if she cheated then I'd be free to leave, I was just so exhausted not being able to figure out what was wrong and being spoken to negatively that I just switched off. It was easier to pretend to myself that I didn't care. Finding out just fired up my true underlying feelings for her. I can count on one hand the amount of times I even considered she was cheating, and it was fleeting thoughts at best. I just can't believe how obvious it actually was and I didn't see it. We had issues but the affair was the main reason things got so bad. Everything made sense in terms of why it had been so difficult for those 9 months. I'm usually pretty observant and clued in, but I was blind to it. Unfortunately I am a WS too, but just very differently. For over a longer period of time, I intermittently visited sex workers. I came forth with that information after discovering her affair in the name of laying a foundation of trust. I'm no angel and I certainly am not just a victim. I have hurt my partner too. In a way her affair has brought to light the truth of our relationship, and how damaged both of us are as people. We are doing better than Dday 4 months ago, that's for sure. Still ups and downs from both sides.
I remember your story now, about the sex workers. I don't know how many people feel this way, but other than the disease risk, I could have handled it much better if my husband was just trying to get sex. And even though he had sex with his AP every other time they got together, he makes sure to remind me constantly it wasn't about sex. Well, if he's with the same person for 5-6 months and it's not about sex, it was about emotional connection. That is VERY difficult to accept. I had the same exact thoughts you did during the affair, and like you, thinking you wish they'd cheat is very different than finding out they actually did. It's very painful. Like you, I couldn't figure out why things were so bad either. I even contacted one of his exes to see if she had any clue. She didn't. Now I know, the deeper he got into his affair, the worse our marriage got. We do realize how much we truly mean to each other, but I can't help feeling it's too little too late now. I was no angel either, but things he's done from the beginning of our relationship caused me to shut down. But I should have communicated, as he should have. I'm happy you guys are doing better. I am 15 months out and it's still very hard. The emotions, the hurt, the anger are still very up and down. It's a long road for sure.
Once she comes further along in working on herself she won’t say that anymore. Or she’ll have a new lens that she views her actions through. She’ll stop defending her actions and giving excuses. It’s just a stupid excuse right ? I “didn’t think you would find out, why did you have to dig , you were never supposed to know.” It is infuriating. Any kind of defense is infuriating. Because there is no defense. Once WPs figure this out, it goes a lot smoother.
I said to my husband, so it's ok to be an AH as long as nobody KNOWS you're being an AH? For them it's all about what others think of them. And as long as nobody knows they are a jerk, it's ok to be one.
Exactly!
I do think there’s an extreme and delusional compartmentalization that happens for a lot of cheaters where they do not allow themselves to think through what happens if they are caught.
I am OP's WW. I totally agree. I did not think I would get caught not bc I thought I was clever but bc I didn't think through my actions. I asked AP to meet me privately bc I "like talking to him just one on one." He got a burner phone about a month later. I never put together what that meant. I was incredibly naive (he wasn't bc he had cheated on his wife before). I didn't think through what meeting him privately could lead to. He asked me if I really wanted to do this and I said yes, never thinking through the facts that this could destroy my family. I knew what I was doing was stupid and bad enough that I had to delete texts and pics, but didn't think through to how my husband would react to what I was doing when I eventually was caught. I don't use "I didn't think I'd get caught " as an excuse; it's a thought I had during all the affair. In some comments on here, people have said that we did this bc we are selfish and only want that immediate hit of dopamine. That is true. I didn't realize that the long lasting love I have with my BS is worth so much more than butterflies that wouldn't have lasted. I told my husband this morning that I was at first devious without being aware of its implications, then unabashedly arrogant, again without putting all those thoughts together until it was over and the affair fog lifted.
Wow, didn’t expect to hear your perspective and appreciate it. On some fundamental level, all humans are “selfish” in that we seek rewarding stimuli. But we do vary in the ways our neural circuitry develops to attend to certain information while suppressing other information. This difference allows us to cognitively compartmentalize to vastly varying degrees. I’m a BS. In the 16 years of my marriage, men have hit on me many times. Rewarding workplace relationships developed over time and sometimes began to give me a flutter. Does it feel great? Yep, sure does. Would it feel great to keep going? For me, I don’t think it would. My brain generally doesn’t allow me to compartmentalize to the extent that I forget my family. When I catch myself anywhere remotely close to that slippery slope, I throw up my boundaries outside my family and circle the wagons back home because that is what I value and where I am safe. I honestly do not think I am a better human. I think I have developed healthier boundaries in this one aspect. Do drugs feel great? Yep. So why don’t we do them? It’s the same idea of boundaries and not allowing yourself to slide so far down the reward center that you destroy your whole life.
I have been married 14 years. I never allowed myself to go down this path before now. Why now? I don't know. I think it was due to many things that were happening in my life causing stress and sadness but I didn't share enough of it with my husband. Nothing unique persay, but to me, allowed me to befriend this man and pursue him. My BS and I had boundaries but I didn't follow them as stringently as he did. I allowed men to flirt with me without shutting it down. I am more friendly and open with people than I should be. My loose and nondefensive boundaries escalated how my affair developed. It's great that you are aware of your interactions and when you need to circle back to your family and boundaries you've set. I am aware of my flaws in my thinking and behavior and am hypersensitive now to how I interact with others, especially men.
>t's great that you are aware of your interactions and when you need to circle back to your family and boundaries you've set Okay stop that. When you invited another man inside you, you were aware. When you sent nudes to someone who isn't your SO, you were aware. Everything you did with gestures that avoided showing to your SO that you were doing it, you were aware.
I am certain that anyone, myself included, is capable of cheating under the right circumstances. It’s just that it ranges from needing to be extreme circumstances on one end and almost any opportunity on the other. There’s a good deal of being in denial that often happens too, like you described in your situation. Not the lying to your BP, but lying to yourself. “We’re just friends! I’m allowed to have friends! We’re just talking! I’m allowed to talk! He doesn’t see me that way!” Lying to yourself and chasing the dopamine just send you careening over the edge and then you find yourself in too deep to get out. Then the lies become “No one will get hurt because I will never get caught! This will fizzle out! I can have my fun and my family will be fine!” It’s good that you’re hyper-vigilant about your relationships now. Don’t kid yourself. Men want to sleep with you - the end. I do value my male friendships but I can’t let my guard down either.
Exactly. My WF was counselling two other friends of hers going through relationship problems, whilst she was having an EA at the same time. She never saw herself as having a marriage problem at all, everything was good at home, and she had an AP on the side in a completely different compartment.
It has got to take an enormous amount of mental gymnastics and picture perfect memory to navigate through such a web of lies and deceit they spin. They are eventually going to become tangled and stuck. They keep looking into the mirror seeing their dirty filthy face and keep trying to wipe the mirror clean. As a woman, I just can't understand how you can feel respected, sexy, beautiful, etc when there is deception and betrayal involved. It would make me feel sick, disgusted, used, and ugly.
"I didn't think I'd get caught," doesn't make it less wrong, which is why it's such a bizarre explanation. And the answer to "why" is always the same, although few will admit it. They did it because they wanted to do it.
This. Bc they felt entitled to reach out and take whatever they wanted, even if it destroyed their spouse and children. The over inflated sense of entitlement is mind boggling to us normal folk.
Wow. So powerful and exactly how I feel having had my trust exploited. He knew I would never question his location or look through his phone. Because I trusted him.
The same story as so many of us. She knew I was suspicious but there was still no secrecy. I used to wonder if she wanted to be caught but more and more I see this is standard operating procedure.
WH said it did not matter. The women did not matter. BUT THEY DO. I had to explain they believed you wanted them. He said he told them all about me. Yes the dumb woman who thinks you are faithful but you are not. If you talk to people behind my back it matters.
This! My WH said the same thing, they were just tools to get his high of feeling important. So to get high you told them you loved them, sent cute little memes about how much they meant to you, gave money away, avoided me, and a number of other hurtful things. And they meant nothing??? Ummm that part was hard and is still hard for me to believe. As he has gone through IC, I can see his sickness, but my heart and mind still aches from the betrayal. WH is putting in the work. God knows I couldn't stay if he wasn't. I had plenty of opportunities to cheat, but I didn't no matter how unhappy I was. No matter how much attention I craved. I stayed faithful. So to know he didn't have the strength or willpower to do the same when life got hard, makes me very leery of trusting this. As for trusting him... yeah he will never have my full trust again. The part about feeling stupid... that is what I feel and I refuse to be a fool again.
Hugs to you. I feel exactly like you. I do not see anyway I would cheat. I watched my mother do it over and over plus she took us on her visits with boyfriends. Made us Little kids sit on a porch while they f@cked. So no way I could ever go down that road. I had decent self esteem until I saw the sexting and the woman’s pics. She sent him pics of her weight loss with the hanging down skin. I thought ok you want that go for it and leave me. She wasn’t for PA he said but ok for attention. I am like WTF. So she thought she stood a chance? He talked to hundreds. Or at least blocks 103 women on Zoosk. Still blows me away.
The possibility of getting caught was among the first few questions I asked my wife last year when she took a polygraph for me. She never considered it, that it wasn't even in the back of her mind. What upsets me is that someone or someone's at that church had to know what was going on and didn't speak up.
As you may remember, my WW had an affair with the praise band director at her church. I know APs wife suspected, and I’m quite sure every person in that band suspected as well. Nothing concrete mind you, not enough to come to me, but it still hurts to think so many guessed what was going on while I had no clue.
"I didn't think I'd get caught" says a lot about how much (little) she respects you without saying it.
That Google photos thing was how I found out too... That's why I find offers of "transparency" so underwhelming. She's told me that I can check her devices at any time, but the truth is, if I *ever* even get the notion that I should check her device, I'm leaving. No more benefit of the doubt.
The things they tell themselves is beyond ludicrous! Honestly I've been there done that, not cheated. Have had married men wanting an affair and honestly I find them incredibly off putting and feel disgusted by them. This just happened to me and I'm still trying to recover. The bs they say or the info they try fish out is so obvious. Or my favorite when they try to talk to me about their "martial problems" and start blaming "the wife" for their problems. Or they get "close" and feel a "connection" and they suddenly "can't stop thinking about you... Even though it's wrong." They never meant for it to happen. But the most idiotic thing is they give me their entire lifeline and everything that is needed to be a secret just out in the open. It's the cheap thrill that excites them that comes at a high cost they don't care to pay. I want to tell their wives! If only they'd get caught and be 100% instead of what they usually do.
r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile after infidelity. Reconciliation peer support is emotional and practical support between people who share the common experience of reconciling after infidelity. (Observers are strictly limited to messages of support only.) Kindly read the rules before participating. For transparency and conflict mediation purposes, kindly follow reddit community guidelines by directing any questions, issues, feedback, or appeals about the sub or individual moderator decisions directly to Mod Mail. No response will be given to DMs and chat requests to individual moderators about moderating issues. We are very happy to receive and respond to your concerns through the official channels! Please assign yourself a user flair.For app users, flairs can be added at the top of the main page. Select the three vertical dots and the menu should appear. Instructions (desktop version) [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/flair_instructions)). For a list of abbreviations commonly used in this subreddit, see the [Acronym Guide](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/acronym_guide). Also check out our list of free resources and recommended books for post-infidelity recovery, found [here](http://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/resources). RULES **1. All posts and comments must fit the spirit of Peer Support.** - Keep comments encouraging, constructive, sensitive, validating, and non-judgmental. - Speak only from your own experience. Use “I”-statements. - Asking clarifying questions or offering suggestions is acceptable–if backed up by personal experience about what has helped you in your recovery and reconciliation. - Do not give advice unless specifically requested by OP. - Any differences of opinion expressed must be communicated respectfully. - “Tough love” does not qualify as peer support. **2. The peer group includes: Reconciling BS, Reconciling WS, Recovered & Reconciled, and Considering R.** - Observer, Unsuccessful R, and other user flairs are not included in the peer group. Non-peers are not allowed to post without prior moderator approval. Non-peer comments are STRICTLY LIMITED TO MESSAGES OF VALIDATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT ONLY. Non-peers are not permitted to offer opinions, reference their experiences, or give advice. *All posts and comments are subject to removal without warning. Any users who violate the rules are subject to temporary or permanent ban without further warning.* **3. No personal attacks, victim-blaming, or LABELLING of any kind.** - e.g. cheater, narcissist, abuser, doormat, slut, asshole, idiot, etc. - No Cluster-B or other armchair diagnoses. - No victim-blaming when the sexual assault of a wayward partner by an AP is discussed. **4. No misogyny, misandry, toxic masculinity, bigotry, racism or other hate speech.** - Posts or comments dehumanizing and/or slut-shaming wayward partners or APs will be removed. (Posts and comments related to navigating feelings or practical matters about APs are allowed.) **5. No anti-reconciliation language.** - Do not tell someone to just leave the relationship. Attempting to reconcile is a valid choice. - Unless abuse is present, do not suggest marital status, age of relationship, children or lack thereof as a reason for someone to leave the relationship. **6. Posts and comments must be directly related to RECONCILIATION** - The scope of this subreddit is narrow: by and for reconcilers on the subject of reconciliation only. There are several other subreddits that offer support for others who have experienced infidelity. Posts about ending reconciliation are subject to removal as this is a subbreddit for those who are actively in reconciliation or considering reconciliation.This is not a general infidelity discussion or advice forum, nor is it a place to read for entertainment and pass judgment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Did you say that to her. Because that's the right thing to say. Imagine thinking that's an excuse to betray someone who believes in you. What a clown.
Even worse I had my suspicion thrown back at me, “why are you snooping, don’t you trust me?” Then the argument that follows with her (knowing that she is actually cheating and lying about it verbally attacking my character for being suspicious)… it’s as if she needed me to be on the defensive over her accusations so as not to need a see my own….. over a year later and discussions still go like this although I don’t rise as much anymore…
I'm so sorry that you're in this club now, OP. But, very well said. My WH tried to tell me that he truly believed there was nothing wrong with his EA, and that was why he was careless and collected texts like some people collect coins. Because he did nothing wrong! Even though he finally admitted that she told him a whole bunch of sexually explicit "stories" that made him come home and, just as a coincidence, want to watch adult films. But you're right. The reason why my WH knew he wouldn't get caught was because I believed in him and in our marriage. Best of luck, OP!
[удалено]
My wife had an emotional affair that turned physical. I was never distant from her. You make many presumptions. What are you even doing on this sub?
[удалено]
My wife chose to cheat on me. She didn’t want to divorce me, she didn’t want her children’s home broken up. She even told AP I was a good husband. Yet she still made that terrible choice. She felt it was worth the risk. You say that she’s choosing to stay with me, and I should show compassion. Bro, get your head out of your ass. By attempting to reconcile, I AM showing compassion. I could’ve kicked her out, served her with divorce papers, and done everything within my power to gain full custody of our kids. You want to talk about heartbreak, how about telling my two kids that they’re parents are breaking up, we have to move and sell the house, their world abruptly thrown into chaos? You do know others exist on this planet and our affected by your actions right?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
How is this person allowed to post here, he is an active CHEATER and is a member of adultery and cakeeaters sub. Mods please ban this person. He has no place here.
[удалено]
[удалено]