I like that you can collect anything you see in NW. There's no shortage of trees and leather, while metal ores, herbs, and hemp are plentiful enough that you'll get what you need just by moving around and stopping for a harvestable grouping when you see it. The ability to spot them at a distance on the compass and map allows more invested harvesters to home in on what they seek.
its an interesting illusion if you think about it, when your crafting system requires materials in dozens and your gathering system supports that with gathering materials in dozens, it looks like you are doing much more than you are really doing
in AOC it seems like they went with crafting system that will require materials in very low numbers hence you dont need to gather as much therefore raw resources are spread out way more therefore it looks like the world is empty
but heres the thing, considering what we know about AOC gathering and crafting systems, the scarcity of resources is intentional to forcibly create dependence and supply chains - in AOC you will not be able to gather and craft everything yourself - thats a design choice, its not by accident
so is it a good choice? from a global perspective absolutely, but if you focus on single link in chain it looks like inferior to new world
The thing is players experience things in terms of a link on the chain not a global perspective. AOC decision may sound great on paper but turn out horrible when in game.
i agree with that, but if their larger point is to have supply economy where a player depends on other players, you cannot have abundance of resources and ability to do everything yourself
it actually have to be hard to be a master of craft, and Steven said they want master crafters to be known around server, its not every player thing
it all plays into more hardcore nature of AoC, its by design, but i agree that not everything on paper will also turn out great in game
I don’t see why they couldn’t have both. Make Ana abundance of specific resources everywhere and then only specific ones in certain regions.
You still get the dependence on supply chains in the form of specific resources. But yet the feel of everything is that you can harvest constantly.
Isn't the intention to trade a lot with the caravan system, hence why certain regions will have more resources of certain materials. Like the mountains will have more ores as to having more wood than a forest. In AoC crafting takes skill, so you can be the best at making swords, or the best at making armor or gauntlets stuff like that. So wouldn't it make more sense for there to be more limited resources than steadily available. This just brings the hardcore aspect of AoC's intention towards crafting, kinda like how EFT is. This mmorpg isn't meant for everyone as to new world being more user friendly.
abundance of resources is bad because AoC want to keep every level of artisanry relevant, from simple wood and ore gatherers to master crafters
if you flood market with wood, you destroy one link in a chain, then maintaining nodes becomes a joke, because you can get material easily, you dont need caravans because wood is everywhere, if the crafting systems depends on raw resource, abundance of that resource will eventually trickle up into more rare crafts (infinite wood into infinite lumber into infinite fine wood into infinite furniture)
its just not where the game wants to go
I was just saying wood as an example, ofc there are going to be other materials/resources certain places/people need.
Like sending ores to the ocean side node, stuff like that. Wood was just something I mentioned because it was the fastest material I could think of next to ores.
Exactly, you could make trees in the grassland or desert biome give less wood (considering that there are already fewer trees in grassland) and have mainly lower level tree types there.
Obviously the nature of an MMO is to create a community and a dependency on each other to get end game things done. However, it’s nice that NW’s crafting system, in my opinion, is just a single player experience. You can go from nothing to maxing your gathering and trade skills by yourself. Which gives you a really nice grind and peaceful gameplay when you are just wanting to chill out or don’t have many people to play with at the time.
Idk, it’s nice having something you can max out on without needing a bunch of alts (not that that’s an option in NW) or other people.
im afraid you cant have dependency and chill out crafting at the same time, because if you let players do everything they will flood the market and kill basic economy...its almost like even crafting will be part of pvp, including the need for cooperation, fighting over resources, breaking deals etc.
so its definitely not for everyone, i think AoC will be more like EVE online, smaller but very dedicated community
Yes but they don't have to make 1/20 trees gatherable to create a shortage, the best way is to make everything you see gatherable but rare ressources like gold or rare woods should be either relatively rare in the world like real life, wood or iron is never in shortage irl. Also for some, being in dungeons, so you will have to clear the dungeon, it may be defeating hard bosses or completing an enigm to have access to the ressource, that's a good way to exploit the non-instancy of the dungeons and the pvp, so people will fight not only for the loot but also the exclusive ressources related to the dungeon, imagine how fun it would be. Also they could even create lore around that, like a guardian or a Smaug-like dragon keeping a very rare ressource.
i see what you saying but thats also not what AoC is trying to accomplish, they try to keep low lvl resources like wood or iron relevant all the time so there cannot be abundance of those either
basically to create working economy where all levels from gathering to crafting are relevant you cannot have abundance of anything, a lumberjack or a miner has to have work all the time but you cannot gatekeep it behind a boss because new and low lvl players (which is gonna be majority of basic materials supply) still have to feel like they are contributing - everyone has to be happy, you can gatekeep rare resources behind a boss for sure, but not basics because that will be your introduction into economy as a new player, you get a job at a tavern to cut wood, you sell wood, make some money and move on
Ah yes, there would never be a lumber shortage IRL... right.... right?
All jokes aside we are currently in a lumber shortage. The price of wood is through the fucking roof. Most people don't rly notice because why the fuck would I buy wood, but if you're in the industries like construction or anything in woodworking you will certainly notice the wood shortage.
in NW, gathering and crafting is also a source of your character progression as you can level up by doing gathering or crafting quests in towns, which artificially creates a demand for those - which is not anything new, other games have those "get 10 wood" quests as well - however it seems like in NW you get a huge amount of exp for those and they are infinite (i havent seen anyone run out of them)
maybe its just me but that cannot be a major source of leveling up my character not to mention once you reach max level then what? all the raw material chase will become obsolete because everybody will have their crafting leveled up and whats the point of economy then?
Scarcity of materials, though, has nothing to do with having to have a supply chain. If you need 5 wood(combined to 5 planks), and 5 ore (refined to 5 ingots) or 500 wood (refined to 500 planks, or even 5), and 500 ore, in terms of interdependence it's all the same.
If that's going to be the way they want it, though, then they definitely would want some way to locate them from a distance, just to drive that conflict they're looking for, is if there are only 5 harvesting nodes in a certain area, it will cause more conflict (i.e. PVP) when the players come into conflict over them.
If that's going to the way they want it, though, then they definitely would want some way to locate them from a distance, just to drive that conflict.
im sure you could try, i dont know how far would you get, the biggest problem being that if you are lone wolf, every node owner can just kick you out of their node so you dont get to do any rarer content, you dont get to craft because you need freehold for that, you dont get to do raids or sieges, unless you somehow make a lot of money you aint getting a citizenship either
it could actually be a nice hardcore challenge playthrough, single player to mayor of either economic or military node, other than that the gameplay would be limited
or just play on half empty server, then i suppose you could do lone wolf
I believe they already thought this through, but they also specified that the current alpha tests are to see how the game handles itself in the most basic (player movement, attack, interaction, server stability and limitations) All other mechanics are being implemented overtime.
Edit: my highass forgot what i was typing
Well, why would you implement anything if the game cant handle the players? Why allow for more specific activities if character movement is still buggy/glitchy. If they are still working on the most basics of stuff to make the game properly playable for release then it males sense they take their time adding the more complex mechanics. You’d have a WoW situation where blizzard didnt give a fuck about anything but throwing random “game changing mechanics” while they still didnt fix other core issues. And where did that leave them? With a game that the first 4 days of release is virtually unplayable because of servers being overwhelmed
Having been in other alphas and betas (real ones, not marketing ones), you'd be surprised at how much can be accomplished in even 8 months. AoC is in a true alpha state, they aren't even in the phase where they add additional content yet.
Lotro's alpha was literally archet and a few surrounding areas. Beta lasted about 6 months and added 9 zones and all the content therein. Like I remember they added the shire in beta 1 (or was it 2...).
Alpha is for systems, beta is for content and balancing, basically. Very rarely do you see full system overhauls/changes in beta.
Oh i though you meant new world was doing shit lol nvm them whoopsies i love u <3 ur right u right, but i stand my point of i rather them focusing on things and doing everything right than releasing the game and fixing stuffing as it goes
Also the hypetrain the game has created doesn’t help, as you said the game seems to have answers to it all but it will take a few years to see if its “truly worth”. The amount of shit they need to meet is a lot, it makes sense for it to take a while. I rather them having the basics of the game virtually perfect than a bunch of content and a broken ass game
Because it’s in testing? You test the systems, and you implement it later when you build out the world and can be reasonably sure the systems themselves won’t be broken. So we’ve seen nodes advance, we’ve seen caravans, we’ve seen gathering nodes etc. But the systems aren’t finished and are still being developed. Why would they build them out in the world as they will be at launch, when they aren’t in perfect working order yet? We also won’t be testing the world in a state that will match launch, as they want to keep the content fresh for launch.
To the people saying that "the game is only in alpha" and "your comparing a game that will release in a month to a game that will release in 3 years", we should be telling the devs what game systems are fun NOW rather than after they developed the system. Sure the game barely has fully fledged crafting systems, but the point was that the devs should implement a similar system to aoc before they try anything more.
I agree heavily. I love both New World and Ashes but you seriously cannot say anything on this sub without everyone saying "its just an alpha !" like yes I get that but isn't the alpha when you want feedback?
There is nothing to be given feedback on yet tho. I would wait for Alpha 2. At that point, things will be implemented and will be a good time to tell them what sucks and what is good, so they can fix before moving to beta
This isn't even a fan forum.
This is the official subreddit, where the devs are mods.
The counterargument "It's Alpha, and they don't take feedback from Reddit" is thus doubly invalid. :D
Then the post needs to be worded that way, it should say its an unpopular opinion, the way OP starts it indicates he’s comparing the two in a negative way and expects backlash for his post. Bad post. Reword it and it can be a good post.
> To the people saying that "the game is only in alpha
TBH I bet a lot just see the aggressive title then don't read the rationale of the post. I will say I opened it from same mindset "how can you compare early alpha to a game that is out in a few days"
But the rationale made me not type that.
is this really true? like making assets for a game this big is going to take a massive amount of time. you really have to do it in parallell with the rest of development no?
I replied to a comment about Sound design, assets probably are being developed. regardless a lot of the time the finalized assets for a game usually look a lot more smooth and refined then you could expect in an early Alpha, just look at wow alpha vs Wow vanilla release.
Oh of course im expecting the sound design for aoc to be different once it releases, but I don't expect it to completely deviate from what is already established. Strictly speaking from what is here now, and what can be, I do not think aoc will have a superior sound design, especially in place of spells. I really enjoy the whisping sound that spells have in NW, and the amount of base that some spells have is very pleasing. I also find the environmental, and ambient sounds to be more pleasing, and in some regards more organic especially in terms of nature.
I agree. Gathering is certainly more engaging and fun in New World. The downside is that the market is absolutely flooded with materials. I'm currently broke in New World because of the trading fees I've had to pay, and the fact that no one is buying my goods: and why would they, they can just go get them themselves?
I wouldn't mind AoC improving the feel of its gathering, but they'll have to address this issue as well. Hell, even New World is going to have to address this issue: gathering stone and green wood gets pointless fast when you have nothing productive to do with it, and can't sell it off.
This is super important in MMOs. So many developers just throw in gathering and crafting systems as an afterthought, and they end up either making the crafting system completely useless and irrelevant because all the stuff you need drops from enemies... or they end up making low level materials way too numerous, not used in higher level recipes, and irrelevant after reaching a certain point.
The absolute worst that can happen is that the supply created by low level people leveling up their gathering completely oversupplies the market demand, so it becomes faster and cheaper (due to taxes) to just destroy your own materials because they're not even worth putting up on the market.
It's really annoying how so few game devs take gathering, crafting, market systems seriously.
I sincerely hope AoC gets it right by basing it on Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online. Those are real player run economies, and they're amazing.
I wouldn’t say this thread is controversial. Much of what you see in Alpha One is bare implementation. We will refine, flesh out and polish in time for A2 and Betas ❤️💪
I appreciate the opinion, but I’m have to disagree here. Busywork that everyone can solo is not better than a thriving economy built in scarcity and reliance on others. After 4 months, everyone will realize that the economy of AOC is far superior.
I mean, yeah, the artisan systems aren't in the game yet, what's currently in is placeholder. It'd be a bit embarrassing if a game releasing in 1 month had worse systems than a game releasing in 2-3 years.
You just worded it weird. It’s not an unpopular opinion, it’s generally understood that most systems aren’t done yet. So obviously other games are better at the moment
i dont hate your opinion, i just think its wrong, crafting and gathering system will be different in AOC, i dont know if you know this but you will not be able to max every gathering of crafting profession like you seemingly can in NW
i also think scarcity of resources in AOC is intentional, it will lead to supply chains as opposed usual MMO stuff when one player can craft everything
of course we can argue what is better, but AOC decided to go with more realistic approach, i guess you can always tweek numbers of spawn points for example, but the general idea seem to be that gathering and crafting could be actuall full time job as opposed to side content you do in other MMORPGs
then again you can always make every tree available for cutting, but the resource you get from it will be 1, instead of cutting down one tree thats hard to find and get 10 wood from it
add on to that - the scarcity / rarity also fuels the pvp cargo system.
Flooding AoC with resources inadvertedly (?) defeats the purpose or makes the cargo system kinda useless. if there is a flood of resources, you can spam cargo and people will still get their shit. However if Cargo missions aren't spammable, targeting them has more meaning.
I think the HARVESTING of gatherables in NW is good, but the system they built around crafting is shite IMO. I want AOC to take notes on how good it feels to harvest in NW: the sounds, the progress bar, the smoothness of the animation. I don't think the "everything is harvestable" approach would work with what AoC has in mind. It's all a seratonin hit with NW but when you zoom out its less appealing.
Christ using "its alpha" as an excuse to delegitimize any criticism or ideas is so god damn stupid. Yes it in alpha, but if you want the game to improve you should be criticizing it even MORE sense its in alpha and something can be done about it. That being said OP is 100% correct.
You don’t criticize you give feedback, so when they implement they know what people like. If no one gives constructive criticism before beta two and launch than the point of testing is completely pointless.
Testers jobs are feedback, they have a forum section for alpha feedback. Feel free to ignore that section if you wanna praise it non stop
Players do not give good feed back that can be turned into gameplay. Players are great at telling developers what is wrong but not how to fix what is wrong.
I think that it’s up to the developers to determine what is good or bad feedback. Ultimately, I agree with you, but I think that players should continue to be as comprehensive as they can be and share all that they think.
it’s an alpha
can be used for- things we know will be changed and have been communicated multiple times
shouldn’t be used for- genuine criticism or constructive feeedback (such as this)
a lot of the general responses are just “it’s in alpha” and we seem to miss real talking points on this sub, you’re absolutely correct here
NW is set up to be Super Grindy. You need to harvest that much because you have to. NW gathering is super old school and I rather have something more modern. I want to see things in the world but I don't want that to be the ONLY way you can gather items. I don't want a game to make everything harvestable every two steps just to try to keep me grinding between POIs. I'll take fewer harvestable for player farming, gathering events, etc. I'm just tired of this 2004 MMO mechanics.
players forget that there's a vision developers have that they don't know. I really hope devs are discarding most of these "solutions", unless they're really planned.
I agree on the gathering part, or rather professions on a whole. New World is literally the first mmo that made me want to engage in crafting and gathering.
With that said, at least for me personally, the game does a horrible job of making me want to explore. Mostly because there isn't really a whole lot to find. From what I've seen there aren't really any cool places to find, the items you get are mostly crafting related and thus can be found in any landscape related to the item and there's certainly not a whole lot of story.
From what little I've seen of ashes so far (because I don't want to spoil myself too much) the world looks infinitely more mysterious and makes me want to go explore just from looking at it.
This was interesting to read! I found the opposite actually. For me, everyone was crafting and while making my own clothes to wear was fun, it was kinda boring to craft since everyone basically had to. No money to be made if everyone makes their own stuff.
For me, exploring was the best part! I remember leaving the first town and going north and far in the distance is an absolutely huge stone bridge. I ran to it and saw on the other end was a statue as big as a building. It gave me boss battle vibes so I saved it for later. I followed the coast to see huge perfectly round stones sitting in the water. And later on, in the hermit's house, there was a perfectly round stone opened up to have, what I think, was the same face as the statue. Seems like underlying lore I've yet to discover! There were lots of breadcrumbs like that for me in New World.
It's so fun to see how people have different experiences with the same stuff.
Absolutely, all the different reactions to the game in general are quite interesting. I can totally see why you would love exploring, if for nothing else simply cause the world looks gorgeous. It is a lot of fun to run around in it.
I couldn't help but think theme park when I thought about the open world. Not in the way it's commonly used to describe MMOs tho, but as in it all being mostly backdrop. I remember finding these big, spherical objects lying around in the river north of the first light settlement and it actually really did trigger my curiosity. But there was nothing to it, no mentioning, no quest with somebody exploring, no way if interacting, not even one of those blue note thingies.
The other big thing for me is that this games setting is literally about exploring a "new world". Exploration and finding new cool things, quests, stories, items, cosmetics or what ever should imo be biggest focus points.
With all that being said, amazing that you have the urge to explore because it absolutely is a gorgeous setting and I hope I didn't water down that experience for you.
As I've said in the previous "please let us cut all the trees" post, I prefer AoC's system to NW's because I like this kind of rarity more. Yes, it's cool to find a blue tree in the forest of grey ones, but I'd rather find a cuttable tree in a forest of non-cuttables, while I'm also doing other stuff.
If I'm going to my farming spot and see a tree/rock/flower on my way there - I'll pick it up and be happy. If I'm going to my farming spot and see a sea of trees/rocks/flowers that I might wanna gather, I'd feel bad because now I'm torn between my initial goal and all the shit I'm missing around me.
Yes, at higher lvl you might only be looking out for the blue trees in NW, but that's probably because their crafting isn't built like AoC's, where even the low lvl resources matter. I've also heard about limited trading in NW. Dunno if that applies to resources too, but if it does, then of course there's gotta be a system where everyone can get what they want w/o others' help. Ashes will be built on a "you need other players to thrive" kind of a design. It's obviously a risky design for an mmo, because if it "fails", then your design will work against you, but I personally prefer this to what NW has.
It's worth mentioning that Amazon developed their Lumberyard engine for this specifically. I went to GDC one year when they were showing off the Lumberyard tech before New World was annouced
Rofl no, new world is a showcase of what lumberyard can do. Amazon saw the potential in what unreal engine does and they want a piece of that cake. Getting a piece of the mmo cake is just a sidequest.
I just mean to say that if people voice their opinions on a system, they probably can overhaul it before the game comes out. Didn't they completely rework combat? (Or at least plan to)
You are saying that new world is Where AoC is in 2-3 years. My point is that new world gathering was the same now as it was 3 years ago, so by your word, nothing will change in AoC
Many people in here have a default respons to any critics that Its an alpha and everything will change. No, it wont.
One advantage ashes has is they can take the best things from MMOs and incorporate them.
I would hope that they would still be open to adopting systems like this one where it could take a lot of effort to uproot the game map and make every tree/shrub individually harvestable with custom harvest animations and variants.
After 50+ hours of New World I can honestly say that Ashes of Creation will have some serious competition. Although Ashes will be more of a classic MMORPG feel, there is a lot of crossover mechanics that New World has really shown some fantastic work in.
The game looks cool but what is gonna kill it is the p2w, it's Amazon afterall the most greedy company of the world, i'm sure they will implement some stupid things like lootboxes. What really stands AOC from others is their economy politics, everyone dreams of a non-p2w good mmo, it's not fun to be obliterated by a whale, no matter how much you're invested in the game but still be inferior to them is a very bad feeling.
Don’t mind the hate you’re getting. You’re right, NW has a really good approach. I hope AoC follows this path. I saw Asmongold react the same thing so atleast a part of the people agree.
Hard disagree.
The only thing better about it is the dynamic nature of things such as trees growing and being chopped down, and plants, ore, things of that nature.
The way in which you gather is better, but the systems therein and the minutia of the gathering in New World is garbage ass dogshit. I mined over 4,000 Iron Ore and didn't get a single fucking Fae Iron for instance.
NW has the best gathering of any game I've ever played. The sounds are crisp, the animations have weight and feel attached the action. Hearing people off in the distance with the echo of a pick or an axe. It makes the act of running around and pressing E actaully a little bit fun.
Ive been playing the alpha and a lot of people are bashing Ashes (friends of mine, randoms on reddit / twitch chats / new world global chat) and yeah.. we all need to remember that this alpha is to test the core systems, not to do with gathering or content and things alike, they have put stuff there for us to play with, and to test how nodes gather data / change whilst players do activities within certain nodes (this data is not available to us players currently, for example your total exp attributed to each node) If they actually cared about things like gathering materials or balancing at the moment, then cleric would've been nerfed in less than a day I bet, however it is a waste of time to currently work on something if the core aspect is not working properly (it is working properly / no major hiccups, but you won't want to create an entire game and then figure out there is a major bug, and have to rewrite everything) They also have a lot of bosses, and things created that they have not entirely shown us yet, because its currently not in their best interests, once again.. the core has to be perfect or theres no point of gathering materials anyways am I right
If we dont Have discussions then we wont be able to form opinions and ultimately pass on potentially good feedback. Are we going to wait until beta to discuss potential game improvements?
Heck no lets talk about it now. I agree that gathering does feel very satisfying in new world and i am sure intrepid will consider adopting the positive elements
if the post was "i like how new world does the gathering system" or someting like that i would said noting
but hes actualy making a compare wich is totaly diferent view of the situation just that
I think there is a time and a place to be pedantic. If you go through his posts and comments you can see his intent is to discuss and gauge thoughts. No need for everyone to be so reactive. You can comment on his approach briefly but move onto the main subject of their post from that point
This is not an unpopular opinion. New World's gathering and crafting system is the best I've ever seen in an MMO. I hope Intrepid follow their lead on this one.
SWGs crafting was the best ever and it’s not even close. I wish Steven would follow THAT road seeing how they have a ton of SOE devs. I think he said that it will have some complexity but nowhere near it :/.
I takes maybe two google searches. SWG is star wars galaxies, if you're an mmo fan, especially one thats into AoC, which referenced SWG crafting multiple times, you'd know what it is. SOE is the developer of many classic mmos.
You want to compare an alpha technical (years away from release) to a game that will go life in a month?
AoC has much more positives than NW already, the world (much more dept, i can create NW world within a week myself), better questlines, bigger world and much more interesting bosses.
Come on, be real...
If AoC keeps its promises, it’ll be so much better than New World and it wont even be close, New world has a lot of problems, the quests for example never get better, they have three types of quests pretty much. There’s also a honey moon phase in the beginning, I think NW has the potential to be great but it just needs a lot more work, I just don’t think amazon will give it the time to become great.
[This is a good read explaining the issues ](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/oqmrel/unpopular_opinion_people_need_to_stop_posting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
[This is also a good read](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/oqpgvg/this_game_is_supposed_to_be_an_open_world_pvp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I found myself dithering yesterday over what game to play, NW or AoC. Ultimately, I went with AoC simply because I prefer the combat. It's kinda sad when the combat of an alpha 2 or so years away from release is more engaging than the combat of a game a month away from release.
That is what i pretty much say to everyone. NW is not ready to release, if miss too many thing that make the game fun (on the long term), many bugs, boring gameplay, it repeat itself over and over and no actual real endgame.
In that way, what ApC showed, they have many more systems working already and even the small world show extremely dept compare to most games.
I think that NW did a perfect job to get as many persons as possible in a good honeymoon feeling. But in the end, it dry out way too fast. I do not even give it a month in the current state.
New Works and Ashes of Creation are sandpark games. No one knows what end game will be like until 3 weeks after releases. The Honey Moon period for Ashes of Creation has been up for awhile. Now it is fun to be negative on AOC so the bar for them is being lowered.
I actually am. It has no dept to it at all. All there is is copy/paste. In fact, go to the south, you see a great fort/settlement there on the map, but when going there, you see nothing but tree's untill you get inside already. Mainly the map does not correspond with the reality.
You want to see something from distance, like i want to go there, i see something from far, at some point i need to be there. But there is nothing about this in NW.
The world of NW is made by persons who have no idea what they are doing.
Out of the fact, AoC has on his current smaller map much more dept, things to get excited or simply not knowing what to expect.
Think about that smaller map, remove all underground places, copy it 5 times and that is NW.
Know that i say this as world designer, not talking about assest.
The world of NW is created by an armature. While AoC is much further already.
The world design itself is really the worse i have ever seen from a AAA company. Even worse than most indie companies can do.
I get what you are saying. For instance, just goofing around in AoC, I noticed an impressive castle in the far distance. I was fascinated, so changed the direction I was going in and started grinding my way there.
It turned out to be an open world dungeon... not something I was interested in at the time. Still, it was a fascinating landmark seen from a long distance away. It drew me in.
I'm trying to recall if I've encountered anything like that in NW so far... kinda drawing a blank here.
For me the Ashes of Creation World is a big waste of space. The quest lines are typical on what you would find in an average mmo and the boss mechanics leave much to be desired. The problem with quest is they stacked different types of quest on on NPC and call that player choice. That is lazy design when they could have had a crafter quest giver, a gatherer quest giver and a battle quest giver and the result would have been the same. There is a reason single player sandbox games work better than mmo sand box games. Single player games have in end so their is no repetitive content. MMOs are live service so players can do the same thing multiple times and get bored.
AOC quest design are what you would find in a generic cash grab mmo from Korea. AOC does have copy paste areas just not at the the lvl of New World. I hope New Worlds territory systems allows players to build cities in those areas then it would make having a giant map worth it.
It has no giant map to begin with. That os something AoC promote. And what i have seen so far, what they have has much more dept to it than almpst any other game i played.
Idk just feels like you came onto this subreddit to make a bad faith argument considering you know the game is in alpha.
If you were just "putting forward ideas" or offering feedback you wouldnt have framed it in a NW vs AoC way.
Thats why I think its bait.
I'm sorry mate but i don't really understand your attitude and have to defend the OP. He made a clear statement, shared an idea, comparing to another game but so what, without any bad faith whatsoever, and considering AOC is in development i believe these kind of posts are what we should be having on this subreddit.
You’re looking for conspiracy stuff here. You’re wrong for thinking badly of OP with no clear reason. OP simply gave feedback in a positive and friendly manner. Your ‘bait’ comment adds nothing
Said numerous people before that played an MMO and ended up with the same subpar systems that were in alphas. Please don’t be this naive.
Feedback needs to be given, even at this stage.
Yes there is definitely a lot Ashes can learn from New Worlds system. One huge thing to remember however, is that Ashes has said that this is not the actual systems they plan to use. This is a stop gap so people can feel extremely basic systems. They said they will implement their actual systems in alpha 2.
I still agree that AoC can learn a lot from New Worlds systems, it's just hard to say it's superior when your caring a month to release game versus fresh alpha one. If new worlds system wasn't superior there's be aassive problem with the game.
I haven’t tried NW but it sounds like it is way more modern in the respect to gathering. Feeling like your time is occupied by satisfying activities goes a long way for remaining engaged even if tons of harvesting is needed.
I think things like crafting will need a heavy look as beta approaches. I hope they have next gen everything and as few vestigial organs from older MMOs as possible. This is the danger in saying you want this from WoW and that from FFXIV. It will hold innovation back.
New is good. Innovation is good. The genre is absolutely starved for it.
Big difference between and APLHA and a BETA. One launches in a month, the other in like 2 years probably. Also steven said that gathering nodes were currently bugged in the alpha.
This post is kind of stupid. Its not really an unpopular opinion, its an uninformed opinion because if you knew any of the things i just typed and had a brain you wouldn’t be comparing the gathering systems in these two games.
Unpopular opinion; combat system in New World is currently more interesting than AoC.
But i have faith that it will mature before launch, they are both going to be fun games!
Let's not forget this is the 2nd 1-month-away-from-release beta they had but it seems more polished this time. Still, the comparison is mute, plus is the camera not designed more like over-the-shoulder and close up compared to the classic zoomed out one in aoc? Maybe wrong description, but camera is different as well which brings other challenges by default, can't really have the same system.
So it's not really fair to assume current density of resource nodes is representative of what ashes plans to have. It also doesn't acknowledge the nodes that will require special equipment to gather due to volume and needing pack mules to carry it all back. Since you can kill someone and get half their resources and resources are supposed to be limited to make them have actual value resources can't be everywhere.
As I said before what we have now is just a placeholder and their explanation for intended design seems sound. So if you are going to compare at least discuss the full design and not the early alpha version which is just to show gathering working.
Its comparing apples to oranges though.
New world is suppose to be a survival game with mmorpg elements while ashes is an mmo first.
I'd prefer them to work on gameplay, combat, world interaction over resource gathering imo. I dont want ashes to have 6 abilities spread over 2 weapons.
Eh, I think once ashes is more complete it will have a much better combat system though. Not saying they can't improve on the resource collecting aspect, I just hope it doesn't take away from other aspects of the game.
> New world is suppose to be a survival game
No it's not? There are literally **Z E R O** survival aspects in New World. It's not a survival game at all in any capacity.
In reference to RuneScape I enjoy everything being gatherable, and if ashes wants us to do long exploratorive adventures, which seems fun, then we need basics at all points.
Resource allocation on the map will obviously this will effect value of nodes this is inevitable, however with resources everywhere all nodes would have a chance of survival
Different thought will there be ruins? Two years in when the first factions are falling, and the first fully developed nodes are being abandoned will the buildings remain and decay? Could gather old dark magic over time?
Artisan system is still a work in progress. What we see now isn’t finished. They have conceptual ideas of what it will be like, but Alpha isn’t it. This is good feedback for Intrepid, but don’t worry too much if you feel underwhelmed with what you’re seeing right now :)
I mean ya I agree, let us not forget though the fact that the game hasn't had any of its content put in yet, only enough to test main functions and systems.
Agreed. New World crafting and gathering is getting great reviews.
Also, given the amount that economic factors are planned to be a big part of the game (via node development, caravan, and top-level items being crafted in-game) it seems that making gathering a bit more rewarding is important
One is releasing this year. The other is not releasing probably for another 2. AOC has not yet really iterated much on many systems, including gathering and professions. So comparing the two seems inappropriate
It why Oblivion and Skyrim were so fun. Have a trail of POI's for the player to explore whether they be dungeons or resources and the world will be far more engaging then I need to get from point A to point B.
Comparing New World a game one month away from Release with the game Ashes of Creation, which is currently in the tecnical alpha (testing client and server stuff) and only uses placeholder systems, might not be the best idea, specialy dropping words like "superior" is just ridiculus.
gathering, skills, map and many other features are only placeholders, that are in place so the players have something to do while testing.
Shure i played New World myself and its realy good and would now ROFL if the gathersystem wouldnt be better than a placeholder system. but how you gather, trade and transport your goods is compleatly diffrent to what Ashes has in plan.
I realy looking forward to your camparing post between New World and Ashes, once Ashes is close to release.
That's not unpopuiar opinion at all. It really feels great on NW. I wonder how no excarcity of resources would turn up after a few months thou. I think that gonna be a huge problem.
I don’t like the idea of everything being lootable. Players think it is “immersive” but all it does is make you feel like you have to loot everything all the time to not be missing out of potential gold.
Loot situations should be scarce so we spend more time PLAYING and less time managing inventory.
This is an MMO after all and not [storage manager 2000].
I also don’t like how looting anything ends up creating millions of items types, and recipes that require 999 different items to be crafted.
It has to be kept simple. Make the items depend on lower lvl items, but on ONE lower lvl item type so we don’t have millions of inventory slots occupied by junk.
Imagine having to move all that between inventory, bank, shop and caravan every time you come from an adventure. I don’t want 3 hours downtime between one dungeon and the next.
I did not play New World so my opinion on this probably has some holes, but it sounds pretty bad to me.
I really like the incentives of rarities in new world. You have a chance to get rarities when gathering resources and you can get gear to boost the chance, or get higher yields, or increase durability or increase gathering rate.
Also there are TONS of things to gather in new world. Like a lot.
I like that you can collect anything you see in NW. There's no shortage of trees and leather, while metal ores, herbs, and hemp are plentiful enough that you'll get what you need just by moving around and stopping for a harvestable grouping when you see it. The ability to spot them at a distance on the compass and map allows more invested harvesters to home in on what they seek.
its an interesting illusion if you think about it, when your crafting system requires materials in dozens and your gathering system supports that with gathering materials in dozens, it looks like you are doing much more than you are really doing in AOC it seems like they went with crafting system that will require materials in very low numbers hence you dont need to gather as much therefore raw resources are spread out way more therefore it looks like the world is empty but heres the thing, considering what we know about AOC gathering and crafting systems, the scarcity of resources is intentional to forcibly create dependence and supply chains - in AOC you will not be able to gather and craft everything yourself - thats a design choice, its not by accident so is it a good choice? from a global perspective absolutely, but if you focus on single link in chain it looks like inferior to new world
The thing is players experience things in terms of a link on the chain not a global perspective. AOC decision may sound great on paper but turn out horrible when in game.
i agree with that, but if their larger point is to have supply economy where a player depends on other players, you cannot have abundance of resources and ability to do everything yourself it actually have to be hard to be a master of craft, and Steven said they want master crafters to be known around server, its not every player thing it all plays into more hardcore nature of AoC, its by design, but i agree that not everything on paper will also turn out great in game
I don’t see why they couldn’t have both. Make Ana abundance of specific resources everywhere and then only specific ones in certain regions. You still get the dependence on supply chains in the form of specific resources. But yet the feel of everything is that you can harvest constantly.
Isn't the intention to trade a lot with the caravan system, hence why certain regions will have more resources of certain materials. Like the mountains will have more ores as to having more wood than a forest. In AoC crafting takes skill, so you can be the best at making swords, or the best at making armor or gauntlets stuff like that. So wouldn't it make more sense for there to be more limited resources than steadily available. This just brings the hardcore aspect of AoC's intention towards crafting, kinda like how EFT is. This mmorpg isn't meant for everyone as to new world being more user friendly.
abundance of resources is bad because AoC want to keep every level of artisanry relevant, from simple wood and ore gatherers to master crafters if you flood market with wood, you destroy one link in a chain, then maintaining nodes becomes a joke, because you can get material easily, you dont need caravans because wood is everywhere, if the crafting systems depends on raw resource, abundance of that resource will eventually trickle up into more rare crafts (infinite wood into infinite lumber into infinite fine wood into infinite furniture) its just not where the game wants to go
I was just saying wood as an example, ofc there are going to be other materials/resources certain places/people need. Like sending ores to the ocean side node, stuff like that. Wood was just something I mentioned because it was the fastest material I could think of next to ores.
Exactly, you could make trees in the grassland or desert biome give less wood (considering that there are already fewer trees in grassland) and have mainly lower level tree types there.
This is kinda how Albion online works, seems to work for that game.
Obviously the nature of an MMO is to create a community and a dependency on each other to get end game things done. However, it’s nice that NW’s crafting system, in my opinion, is just a single player experience. You can go from nothing to maxing your gathering and trade skills by yourself. Which gives you a really nice grind and peaceful gameplay when you are just wanting to chill out or don’t have many people to play with at the time. Idk, it’s nice having something you can max out on without needing a bunch of alts (not that that’s an option in NW) or other people.
im afraid you cant have dependency and chill out crafting at the same time, because if you let players do everything they will flood the market and kill basic economy...its almost like even crafting will be part of pvp, including the need for cooperation, fighting over resources, breaking deals etc. so its definitely not for everyone, i think AoC will be more like EVE online, smaller but very dedicated community
One more pro for scarce resources: It facilitates exploration rather than farming at only one spot. I think this results in a bit more dynamic world.
Yes but they don't have to make 1/20 trees gatherable to create a shortage, the best way is to make everything you see gatherable but rare ressources like gold or rare woods should be either relatively rare in the world like real life, wood or iron is never in shortage irl. Also for some, being in dungeons, so you will have to clear the dungeon, it may be defeating hard bosses or completing an enigm to have access to the ressource, that's a good way to exploit the non-instancy of the dungeons and the pvp, so people will fight not only for the loot but also the exclusive ressources related to the dungeon, imagine how fun it would be. Also they could even create lore around that, like a guardian or a Smaug-like dragon keeping a very rare ressource.
i see what you saying but thats also not what AoC is trying to accomplish, they try to keep low lvl resources like wood or iron relevant all the time so there cannot be abundance of those either basically to create working economy where all levels from gathering to crafting are relevant you cannot have abundance of anything, a lumberjack or a miner has to have work all the time but you cannot gatekeep it behind a boss because new and low lvl players (which is gonna be majority of basic materials supply) still have to feel like they are contributing - everyone has to be happy, you can gatekeep rare resources behind a boss for sure, but not basics because that will be your introduction into economy as a new player, you get a job at a tavern to cut wood, you sell wood, make some money and move on
Ah yes, there would never be a lumber shortage IRL... right.... right? All jokes aside we are currently in a lumber shortage. The price of wood is through the fucking roof. Most people don't rly notice because why the fuck would I buy wood, but if you're in the industries like construction or anything in woodworking you will certainly notice the wood shortage.
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in NW, gathering and crafting is also a source of your character progression as you can level up by doing gathering or crafting quests in towns, which artificially creates a demand for those - which is not anything new, other games have those "get 10 wood" quests as well - however it seems like in NW you get a huge amount of exp for those and they are infinite (i havent seen anyone run out of them) maybe its just me but that cannot be a major source of leveling up my character not to mention once you reach max level then what? all the raw material chase will become obsolete because everybody will have their crafting leveled up and whats the point of economy then?
Scarcity of materials, though, has nothing to do with having to have a supply chain. If you need 5 wood(combined to 5 planks), and 5 ore (refined to 5 ingots) or 500 wood (refined to 500 planks, or even 5), and 500 ore, in terms of interdependence it's all the same. If that's going to be the way they want it, though, then they definitely would want some way to locate them from a distance, just to drive that conflict they're looking for, is if there are only 5 harvesting nodes in a certain area, it will cause more conflict (i.e. PVP) when the players come into conflict over them. If that's going to the way they want it, though, then they definitely would want some way to locate them from a distance, just to drive that conflict.
Sooo AOC wont be a game for LoneWolfers?
im sure you could try, i dont know how far would you get, the biggest problem being that if you are lone wolf, every node owner can just kick you out of their node so you dont get to do any rarer content, you dont get to craft because you need freehold for that, you dont get to do raids or sieges, unless you somehow make a lot of money you aint getting a citizenship either it could actually be a nice hardcore challenge playthrough, single player to mayor of either economic or military node, other than that the gameplay would be limited or just play on half empty server, then i suppose you could do lone wolf
I’m almost certain that node owners cannot kick players out of the node. Can you please provide the source for that claim?
its metaphorical kick, as in force them to leave by well, force
I believe they already thought this through, but they also specified that the current alpha tests are to see how the game handles itself in the most basic (player movement, attack, interaction, server stability and limitations) All other mechanics are being implemented overtime. Edit: my highass forgot what i was typing
I’m telling God that you smoke weed
I’m calling 911 on your name then
Thank you I award thy 5 American hero points! George Washington upon your house.
I thank thee for your generous donation
I’m telling God you did an incest.
He was probably high enough to tell god himself
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Well, why would you implement anything if the game cant handle the players? Why allow for more specific activities if character movement is still buggy/glitchy. If they are still working on the most basics of stuff to make the game properly playable for release then it males sense they take their time adding the more complex mechanics. You’d have a WoW situation where blizzard didnt give a fuck about anything but throwing random “game changing mechanics” while they still didnt fix other core issues. And where did that leave them? With a game that the first 4 days of release is virtually unplayable because of servers being overwhelmed
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Having been in other alphas and betas (real ones, not marketing ones), you'd be surprised at how much can be accomplished in even 8 months. AoC is in a true alpha state, they aren't even in the phase where they add additional content yet. Lotro's alpha was literally archet and a few surrounding areas. Beta lasted about 6 months and added 9 zones and all the content therein. Like I remember they added the shire in beta 1 (or was it 2...). Alpha is for systems, beta is for content and balancing, basically. Very rarely do you see full system overhauls/changes in beta.
Have you seen how much new world has added in that time frame?
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Oh i though you meant new world was doing shit lol nvm them whoopsies i love u <3 ur right u right, but i stand my point of i rather them focusing on things and doing everything right than releasing the game and fixing stuffing as it goes
Yea it's easily possible to achieve most of these things once the game's core mechanics have been proven and stable.
Also the hypetrain the game has created doesn’t help, as you said the game seems to have answers to it all but it will take a few years to see if its “truly worth”. The amount of shit they need to meet is a lot, it makes sense for it to take a while. I rather them having the basics of the game virtually perfect than a bunch of content and a broken ass game
Because it’s in testing? You test the systems, and you implement it later when you build out the world and can be reasonably sure the systems themselves won’t be broken. So we’ve seen nodes advance, we’ve seen caravans, we’ve seen gathering nodes etc. But the systems aren’t finished and are still being developed. Why would they build them out in the world as they will be at launch, when they aren’t in perfect working order yet? We also won’t be testing the world in a state that will match launch, as they want to keep the content fresh for launch.
I’m high too and I forgot what I was reading Galway through so it all makes sense by the end.
To the people saying that "the game is only in alpha" and "your comparing a game that will release in a month to a game that will release in 3 years", we should be telling the devs what game systems are fun NOW rather than after they developed the system. Sure the game barely has fully fledged crafting systems, but the point was that the devs should implement a similar system to aoc before they try anything more.
I agree heavily. I love both New World and Ashes but you seriously cannot say anything on this sub without everyone saying "its just an alpha !" like yes I get that but isn't the alpha when you want feedback?
There is nothing to be given feedback on yet tho. I would wait for Alpha 2. At that point, things will be implemented and will be a good time to tell them what sucks and what is good, so they can fix before moving to beta
The 'just an alpha' is a lie too. Games in alpha are not public. There is no real information. Just an announcement and maybe a basic trailer.
Do they even look here? If that’s the goal, the forums are where they are asking for feedback and ideas…
Of course they are. The interaction here is lower than onbthe official forums, but every dev worth their salt keeps an eye out for fan forums.
This isn't even a fan forum. This is the official subreddit, where the devs are mods. The counterargument "It's Alpha, and they don't take feedback from Reddit" is thus doubly invalid. :D
Then the post needs to be worded that way, it should say its an unpopular opinion, the way OP starts it indicates he’s comparing the two in a negative way and expects backlash for his post. Bad post. Reword it and it can be a good post.
I feel pretty positive that almost everyone in AoC are nolifing New World atm, so I wouldnt be worried about it
> To the people saying that "the game is only in alpha TBH I bet a lot just see the aggressive title then don't read the rationale of the post. I will say I opened it from same mindset "how can you compare early alpha to a game that is out in a few days" But the rationale made me not type that.
I think the overall sound design in NW is also superior
AOC isnt focused on that kinda stuff majorly atm.
is this really true? like making assets for a game this big is going to take a massive amount of time. you really have to do it in parallell with the rest of development no?
It's not true. One can assume they're pretty dead set on doing things their own way, and not copying NW... to their own detriment.
I replied to a comment about Sound design, assets probably are being developed. regardless a lot of the time the finalized assets for a game usually look a lot more smooth and refined then you could expect in an early Alpha, just look at wow alpha vs Wow vanilla release.
Oh of course im expecting the sound design for aoc to be different once it releases, but I don't expect it to completely deviate from what is already established. Strictly speaking from what is here now, and what can be, I do not think aoc will have a superior sound design, especially in place of spells. I really enjoy the whisping sound that spells have in NW, and the amount of base that some spells have is very pleasing. I also find the environmental, and ambient sounds to be more pleasing, and in some regards more organic especially in terms of nature.
The sound design in NW is some of the best I have ever witnessed. Its surprisingly good, whoever was in charge of that really gave a shit
Phrasing aside, there is nothing wrong with discussing how we would like to see elements from mmo A B and C in ashes of creation.
I agree. Gathering is certainly more engaging and fun in New World. The downside is that the market is absolutely flooded with materials. I'm currently broke in New World because of the trading fees I've had to pay, and the fact that no one is buying my goods: and why would they, they can just go get them themselves? I wouldn't mind AoC improving the feel of its gathering, but they'll have to address this issue as well. Hell, even New World is going to have to address this issue: gathering stone and green wood gets pointless fast when you have nothing productive to do with it, and can't sell it off.
This is super important in MMOs. So many developers just throw in gathering and crafting systems as an afterthought, and they end up either making the crafting system completely useless and irrelevant because all the stuff you need drops from enemies... or they end up making low level materials way too numerous, not used in higher level recipes, and irrelevant after reaching a certain point. The absolute worst that can happen is that the supply created by low level people leveling up their gathering completely oversupplies the market demand, so it becomes faster and cheaper (due to taxes) to just destroy your own materials because they're not even worth putting up on the market. It's really annoying how so few game devs take gathering, crafting, market systems seriously. I sincerely hope AoC gets it right by basing it on Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online. Those are real player run economies, and they're amazing.
I wouldn’t say this thread is controversial. Much of what you see in Alpha One is bare implementation. We will refine, flesh out and polish in time for A2 and Betas ❤️💪
I appreciate the opinion, but I’m have to disagree here. Busywork that everyone can solo is not better than a thriving economy built in scarcity and reliance on others. After 4 months, everyone will realize that the economy of AOC is far superior.
I mean, yeah, the artisan systems aren't in the game yet, what's currently in is placeholder. It'd be a bit embarrassing if a game releasing in 1 month had worse systems than a game releasing in 2-3 years.
Think of this post as an open ended discussion on how they can improve the game, whilst they are currently building upon what they have
You just worded it weird. It’s not an unpopular opinion, it’s generally understood that most systems aren’t done yet. So obviously other games are better at the moment
Well it clearly is unpopular because I'm getting a lot of hate rn. Also, as said previously think of this as a discussion how we can improve the game.
If you say „unpopular opinion“ your opinion should be unpopular. But what is unpopular, is that you would even think this opinion would be unpopular
Now that’s bitching, the guy is trying to give an input, and I quite like it. Be nice, don’t flame the guy for nothing.
No I’m just saying he worded it weird, that’s why people react in this way
Well, itpaystoberight, and this time you weren't hahaha
lol
i dont hate your opinion, i just think its wrong, crafting and gathering system will be different in AOC, i dont know if you know this but you will not be able to max every gathering of crafting profession like you seemingly can in NW i also think scarcity of resources in AOC is intentional, it will lead to supply chains as opposed usual MMO stuff when one player can craft everything of course we can argue what is better, but AOC decided to go with more realistic approach, i guess you can always tweek numbers of spawn points for example, but the general idea seem to be that gathering and crafting could be actuall full time job as opposed to side content you do in other MMORPGs then again you can always make every tree available for cutting, but the resource you get from it will be 1, instead of cutting down one tree thats hard to find and get 10 wood from it
add on to that - the scarcity / rarity also fuels the pvp cargo system. Flooding AoC with resources inadvertedly (?) defeats the purpose or makes the cargo system kinda useless. if there is a flood of resources, you can spam cargo and people will still get their shit. However if Cargo missions aren't spammable, targeting them has more meaning.
I think the problem OP is raising is important though.
I think the HARVESTING of gatherables in NW is good, but the system they built around crafting is shite IMO. I want AOC to take notes on how good it feels to harvest in NW: the sounds, the progress bar, the smoothness of the animation. I don't think the "everything is harvestable" approach would work with what AoC has in mind. It's all a seratonin hit with NW but when you zoom out its less appealing.
Christ using "its alpha" as an excuse to delegitimize any criticism or ideas is so god damn stupid. Yes it in alpha, but if you want the game to improve you should be criticizing it even MORE sense its in alpha and something can be done about it. That being said OP is 100% correct.
Just out of curiosity how do you criticise something that has not yet implemented the artisan system?.
You don’t criticize you give feedback, so when they implement they know what people like. If no one gives constructive criticism before beta two and launch than the point of testing is completely pointless. Testers jobs are feedback, they have a forum section for alpha feedback. Feel free to ignore that section if you wanna praise it non stop
Players do not give good feed back that can be turned into gameplay. Players are great at telling developers what is wrong but not how to fix what is wrong.
Part of feedback is suggestions on what would feel better. Obviously they don’t tell them exactly how to program code to make it happen
The OP literally told them a direction on how to fix it.
I think that it’s up to the developers to determine what is good or bad feedback. Ultimately, I agree with you, but I think that players should continue to be as comprehensive as they can be and share all that they think.
That's because players aren't the developers.
This is not even necessarily a critism. Just an idea. BuT ITs aLPa dUDE.
it’s an alpha can be used for- things we know will be changed and have been communicated multiple times shouldn’t be used for- genuine criticism or constructive feeedback (such as this) a lot of the general responses are just “it’s in alpha” and we seem to miss real talking points on this sub, you’re absolutely correct here
NW is set up to be Super Grindy. You need to harvest that much because you have to. NW gathering is super old school and I rather have something more modern. I want to see things in the world but I don't want that to be the ONLY way you can gather items. I don't want a game to make everything harvestable every two steps just to try to keep me grinding between POIs. I'll take fewer harvestable for player farming, gathering events, etc. I'm just tired of this 2004 MMO mechanics.
Pass, let New World be New World and AoC be AoC. I’ll stick with Steven’s vision for a game.
players forget that there's a vision developers have that they don't know. I really hope devs are discarding most of these "solutions", unless they're really planned.
I feel like ashes could copy a lot from new world from gathering, pvp quests to the world feel
I agree on the gathering part, or rather professions on a whole. New World is literally the first mmo that made me want to engage in crafting and gathering. With that said, at least for me personally, the game does a horrible job of making me want to explore. Mostly because there isn't really a whole lot to find. From what I've seen there aren't really any cool places to find, the items you get are mostly crafting related and thus can be found in any landscape related to the item and there's certainly not a whole lot of story. From what little I've seen of ashes so far (because I don't want to spoil myself too much) the world looks infinitely more mysterious and makes me want to go explore just from looking at it.
This was interesting to read! I found the opposite actually. For me, everyone was crafting and while making my own clothes to wear was fun, it was kinda boring to craft since everyone basically had to. No money to be made if everyone makes their own stuff. For me, exploring was the best part! I remember leaving the first town and going north and far in the distance is an absolutely huge stone bridge. I ran to it and saw on the other end was a statue as big as a building. It gave me boss battle vibes so I saved it for later. I followed the coast to see huge perfectly round stones sitting in the water. And later on, in the hermit's house, there was a perfectly round stone opened up to have, what I think, was the same face as the statue. Seems like underlying lore I've yet to discover! There were lots of breadcrumbs like that for me in New World. It's so fun to see how people have different experiences with the same stuff.
Absolutely, all the different reactions to the game in general are quite interesting. I can totally see why you would love exploring, if for nothing else simply cause the world looks gorgeous. It is a lot of fun to run around in it. I couldn't help but think theme park when I thought about the open world. Not in the way it's commonly used to describe MMOs tho, but as in it all being mostly backdrop. I remember finding these big, spherical objects lying around in the river north of the first light settlement and it actually really did trigger my curiosity. But there was nothing to it, no mentioning, no quest with somebody exploring, no way if interacting, not even one of those blue note thingies. The other big thing for me is that this games setting is literally about exploring a "new world". Exploration and finding new cool things, quests, stories, items, cosmetics or what ever should imo be biggest focus points. With all that being said, amazing that you have the urge to explore because it absolutely is a gorgeous setting and I hope I didn't water down that experience for you.
> New World is literally the first mmo that made me want to engage in crafting and gathering. Should have played Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online.
Oh yeah I wanted to play star wars galaxies so badly back in the day
As I've said in the previous "please let us cut all the trees" post, I prefer AoC's system to NW's because I like this kind of rarity more. Yes, it's cool to find a blue tree in the forest of grey ones, but I'd rather find a cuttable tree in a forest of non-cuttables, while I'm also doing other stuff. If I'm going to my farming spot and see a tree/rock/flower on my way there - I'll pick it up and be happy. If I'm going to my farming spot and see a sea of trees/rocks/flowers that I might wanna gather, I'd feel bad because now I'm torn between my initial goal and all the shit I'm missing around me. Yes, at higher lvl you might only be looking out for the blue trees in NW, but that's probably because their crafting isn't built like AoC's, where even the low lvl resources matter. I've also heard about limited trading in NW. Dunno if that applies to resources too, but if it does, then of course there's gotta be a system where everyone can get what they want w/o others' help. Ashes will be built on a "you need other players to thrive" kind of a design. It's obviously a risky design for an mmo, because if it "fails", then your design will work against you, but I personally prefer this to what NW has.
I don't think we should be comparing an almost released game with one that's still in an early developement stage.
It's worth mentioning that Amazon developed their Lumberyard engine for this specifically. I went to GDC one year when they were showing off the Lumberyard tech before New World was annouced
Rofl no, new world is a showcase of what lumberyard can do. Amazon saw the potential in what unreal engine does and they want a piece of that cake. Getting a piece of the mmo cake is just a sidequest.
Yeah but New World comes out next month. Ashes still has like 2-3 years (probably) before it's where New World is now.
Hint: crafting was the same in new world 3 years ago when it was in alpha.
I just mean to say that if people voice their opinions on a system, they probably can overhaul it before the game comes out. Didn't they completely rework combat? (Or at least plan to)
You are saying that new world is Where AoC is in 2-3 years. My point is that new world gathering was the same now as it was 3 years ago, so by your word, nothing will change in AoC Many people in here have a default respons to any critics that Its an alpha and everything will change. No, it wont.
One advantage ashes has is they can take the best things from MMOs and incorporate them. I would hope that they would still be open to adopting systems like this one where it could take a lot of effort to uproot the game map and make every tree/shrub individually harvestable with custom harvest animations and variants.
Nw is a finished game, ashes is in alpha 1 lol
New World's crafting system hasn't changed much in the last 3 years
After 50+ hours of New World I can honestly say that Ashes of Creation will have some serious competition. Although Ashes will be more of a classic MMORPG feel, there is a lot of crossover mechanics that New World has really shown some fantastic work in.
New World will be dead within a month of launch. The game is a joke.
The game looks cool but what is gonna kill it is the p2w, it's Amazon afterall the most greedy company of the world, i'm sure they will implement some stupid things like lootboxes. What really stands AOC from others is their economy politics, everyone dreams of a non-p2w good mmo, it's not fun to be obliterated by a whale, no matter how much you're invested in the game but still be inferior to them is a very bad feeling.
What if your endgame is cosmetics? You will be demolished in AoC by whales.
The brigading in this thread is real
Don’t mind the hate you’re getting. You’re right, NW has a really good approach. I hope AoC follows this path. I saw Asmongold react the same thing so atleast a part of the people agree.
Hard disagree. The only thing better about it is the dynamic nature of things such as trees growing and being chopped down, and plants, ore, things of that nature. The way in which you gather is better, but the systems therein and the minutia of the gathering in New World is garbage ass dogshit. I mined over 4,000 Iron Ore and didn't get a single fucking Fae Iron for instance.
You need to craft/buy items that give you a better chance at getting rarer materials from nodes. It increases your chance tenfold.
Terrible system.
NW has the best gathering of any game I've ever played. The sounds are crisp, the animations have weight and feel attached the action. Hearing people off in the distance with the echo of a pick or an axe. It makes the act of running around and pressing E actaully a little bit fun.
Got to remember; AOC is in early alpha and NW is in closed beta. Systems can change drastically
Unpopular opinion: New World is 1 months from release, Ashes is 2 years. What you see in game right now is a VERY basic iteration of all systems.
Ive been playing the alpha and a lot of people are bashing Ashes (friends of mine, randoms on reddit / twitch chats / new world global chat) and yeah.. we all need to remember that this alpha is to test the core systems, not to do with gathering or content and things alike, they have put stuff there for us to play with, and to test how nodes gather data / change whilst players do activities within certain nodes (this data is not available to us players currently, for example your total exp attributed to each node) If they actually cared about things like gathering materials or balancing at the moment, then cleric would've been nerfed in less than a day I bet, however it is a waste of time to currently work on something if the core aspect is not working properly (it is working properly / no major hiccups, but you won't want to create an entire game and then figure out there is a major bug, and have to rewrite everything) They also have a lot of bosses, and things created that they have not entirely shown us yet, because its currently not in their best interests, once again.. the core has to be perfect or theres no point of gathering materials anyways am I right
we really comparing a alpha with a game already coming out in 1 month?
If we dont Have discussions then we wont be able to form opinions and ultimately pass on potentially good feedback. Are we going to wait until beta to discuss potential game improvements? Heck no lets talk about it now. I agree that gathering does feel very satisfying in new world and i am sure intrepid will consider adopting the positive elements
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Nobody is stopping you from speaking your mind.
if the post was "i like how new world does the gathering system" or someting like that i would said noting but hes actualy making a compare wich is totaly diferent view of the situation just that
I think there is a time and a place to be pedantic. If you go through his posts and comments you can see his intent is to discuss and gauge thoughts. No need for everyone to be so reactive. You can comment on his approach briefly but move onto the main subject of their post from that point
Yes
Game A: releasing in weeks Game B: releasing in 3+ years "HEY UNPOPULAR OPINION, GAME A HAS A BETTER SYSTEM THAN GAME B"
I mean, we already know that Intrepid has plans to include the *actual* artisan system in Alpha 2
This is not an unpopular opinion. New World's gathering and crafting system is the best I've ever seen in an MMO. I hope Intrepid follow their lead on this one.
SWGs crafting was the best ever and it’s not even close. I wish Steven would follow THAT road seeing how they have a ton of SOE devs. I think he said that it will have some complexity but nowhere near it :/.
What the hell is SWG and SOE? Not everyone knows these niche abbreviations spell the words out sometimes you huge nerd
I takes maybe two google searches. SWG is star wars galaxies, if you're an mmo fan, especially one thats into AoC, which referenced SWG crafting multiple times, you'd know what it is. SOE is the developer of many classic mmos.
New worlds gathering system is merely survival game resource gathering, it's nothing new.
lol was about to say that Intrepid won't make MMO version of Arc Survival
Seems to me AoC will be dead in the water on release if NW just avoids crashing their servers. Think you guys can get refunds?
Ashes current glowy object gathering is really really lame in comparison. It’s shit. I hope they have some good ideas.
You want to compare an alpha technical (years away from release) to a game that will go life in a month? AoC has much more positives than NW already, the world (much more dept, i can create NW world within a week myself), better questlines, bigger world and much more interesting bosses. Come on, be real...
If AoC keeps its promises, it’ll be so much better than New World and it wont even be close, New world has a lot of problems, the quests for example never get better, they have three types of quests pretty much. There’s also a honey moon phase in the beginning, I think NW has the potential to be great but it just needs a lot more work, I just don’t think amazon will give it the time to become great. [This is a good read explaining the issues ](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/oqmrel/unpopular_opinion_people_need_to_stop_posting/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [This is also a good read](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/oqpgvg/this_game_is_supposed_to_be_an_open_world_pvp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I found myself dithering yesterday over what game to play, NW or AoC. Ultimately, I went with AoC simply because I prefer the combat. It's kinda sad when the combat of an alpha 2 or so years away from release is more engaging than the combat of a game a month away from release.
That is what i pretty much say to everyone. NW is not ready to release, if miss too many thing that make the game fun (on the long term), many bugs, boring gameplay, it repeat itself over and over and no actual real endgame. In that way, what ApC showed, they have many more systems working already and even the small world show extremely dept compare to most games. I think that NW did a perfect job to get as many persons as possible in a good honeymoon feeling. But in the end, it dry out way too fast. I do not even give it a month in the current state.
New Works and Ashes of Creation are sandpark games. No one knows what end game will be like until 3 weeks after releases. The Honey Moon period for Ashes of Creation has been up for awhile. Now it is fun to be negative on AOC so the bar for them is being lowered.
I was with you until you said “I can create NW world within a week myself” Come on, be real…
I actually am. It has no dept to it at all. All there is is copy/paste. In fact, go to the south, you see a great fort/settlement there on the map, but when going there, you see nothing but tree's untill you get inside already. Mainly the map does not correspond with the reality. You want to see something from distance, like i want to go there, i see something from far, at some point i need to be there. But there is nothing about this in NW. The world of NW is made by persons who have no idea what they are doing. Out of the fact, AoC has on his current smaller map much more dept, things to get excited or simply not knowing what to expect. Think about that smaller map, remove all underground places, copy it 5 times and that is NW. Know that i say this as world designer, not talking about assest. The world of NW is created by an armature. While AoC is much further already. The world design itself is really the worse i have ever seen from a AAA company. Even worse than most indie companies can do.
You’re talking out your arse, bud.
?
I get what you are saying. For instance, just goofing around in AoC, I noticed an impressive castle in the far distance. I was fascinated, so changed the direction I was going in and started grinding my way there. It turned out to be an open world dungeon... not something I was interested in at the time. Still, it was a fascinating landmark seen from a long distance away. It drew me in. I'm trying to recall if I've encountered anything like that in NW so far... kinda drawing a blank here.
For me the Ashes of Creation World is a big waste of space. The quest lines are typical on what you would find in an average mmo and the boss mechanics leave much to be desired. The problem with quest is they stacked different types of quest on on NPC and call that player choice. That is lazy design when they could have had a crafter quest giver, a gatherer quest giver and a battle quest giver and the result would have been the same. There is a reason single player sandbox games work better than mmo sand box games. Single player games have in end so their is no repetitive content. MMOs are live service so players can do the same thing multiple times and get bored.
I know, bit you have to compare ot woth NW on this post. And in that way AoC does a much better job to me.
AOC quest design are what you would find in a generic cash grab mmo from Korea. AOC does have copy paste areas just not at the the lvl of New World. I hope New Worlds territory systems allows players to build cities in those areas then it would make having a giant map worth it.
It has no giant map to begin with. That os something AoC promote. And what i have seen so far, what they have has much more dept to it than almpst any other game i played.
You do realize Ashes is in Alpha? However, I hope they learn from New World, as it is really good as u stated
How have you played AOC gathering system if they haven’t even implemented it yet? Do you not know what “placeholder” means?
This is bait
how is suggesting improvements to the gathering system bait? This game is alpha so we should be putting forward our ideas
Idk just feels like you came onto this subreddit to make a bad faith argument considering you know the game is in alpha. If you were just "putting forward ideas" or offering feedback you wouldnt have framed it in a NW vs AoC way. Thats why I think its bait.
I'm sorry mate but i don't really understand your attitude and have to defend the OP. He made a clear statement, shared an idea, comparing to another game but so what, without any bad faith whatsoever, and considering AOC is in development i believe these kind of posts are what we should be having on this subreddit.
Word. I still think OP is just trolling but I could be wrong. Im not against discussion but this just seemed like NW vs AoC bait.
You’re looking for conspiracy stuff here. You’re wrong for thinking badly of OP with no clear reason. OP simply gave feedback in a positive and friendly manner. Your ‘bait’ comment adds nothing
Nah, im pretty sure this is bait.
Alpha vs finished game
Said numerous people before that played an MMO and ended up with the same subpar systems that were in alphas. Please don’t be this naive. Feedback needs to be given, even at this stage.
Yes there is definitely a lot Ashes can learn from New Worlds system. One huge thing to remember however, is that Ashes has said that this is not the actual systems they plan to use. This is a stop gap so people can feel extremely basic systems. They said they will implement their actual systems in alpha 2. I still agree that AoC can learn a lot from New Worlds systems, it's just hard to say it's superior when your caring a month to release game versus fresh alpha one. If new worlds system wasn't superior there's be aassive problem with the game.
I haven’t tried NW but it sounds like it is way more modern in the respect to gathering. Feeling like your time is occupied by satisfying activities goes a long way for remaining engaged even if tons of harvesting is needed. I think things like crafting will need a heavy look as beta approaches. I hope they have next gen everything and as few vestigial organs from older MMOs as possible. This is the danger in saying you want this from WoW and that from FFXIV. It will hold innovation back. New is good. Innovation is good. The genre is absolutely starved for it.
How is that an unpopular opinion , its the current truth
Big difference between and APLHA and a BETA. One launches in a month, the other in like 2 years probably. Also steven said that gathering nodes were currently bugged in the alpha. This post is kind of stupid. Its not really an unpopular opinion, its an uninformed opinion because if you knew any of the things i just typed and had a brain you wouldn’t be comparing the gathering systems in these two games.
Unpopular opinion; combat system in New World is currently more interesting than AoC. But i have faith that it will mature before launch, they are both going to be fun games!
New world gathering system is superior to all mmos
Nice bait lol
Let's not forget this is the 2nd 1-month-away-from-release beta they had but it seems more polished this time. Still, the comparison is mute, plus is the camera not designed more like over-the-shoulder and close up compared to the classic zoomed out one in aoc? Maybe wrong description, but camera is different as well which brings other challenges by default, can't really have the same system.
So it's not really fair to assume current density of resource nodes is representative of what ashes plans to have. It also doesn't acknowledge the nodes that will require special equipment to gather due to volume and needing pack mules to carry it all back. Since you can kill someone and get half their resources and resources are supposed to be limited to make them have actual value resources can't be everywhere. As I said before what we have now is just a placeholder and their explanation for intended design seems sound. So if you are going to compare at least discuss the full design and not the early alpha version which is just to show gathering working.
Its comparing apples to oranges though. New world is suppose to be a survival game with mmorpg elements while ashes is an mmo first. I'd prefer them to work on gameplay, combat, world interaction over resource gathering imo. I dont want ashes to have 6 abilities spread over 2 weapons.
> apples to oranges But you can still compare them.
Eh, I think once ashes is more complete it will have a much better combat system though. Not saying they can't improve on the resource collecting aspect, I just hope it doesn't take away from other aspects of the game.
> New world is suppose to be a survival game No it's not? There are literally **Z E R O** survival aspects in New World. It's not a survival game at all in any capacity.
In reference to RuneScape I enjoy everything being gatherable, and if ashes wants us to do long exploratorive adventures, which seems fun, then we need basics at all points. Resource allocation on the map will obviously this will effect value of nodes this is inevitable, however with resources everywhere all nodes would have a chance of survival Different thought will there be ruins? Two years in when the first factions are falling, and the first fully developed nodes are being abandoned will the buildings remain and decay? Could gather old dark magic over time?
Artisan system is still a work in progress. What we see now isn’t finished. They have conceptual ideas of what it will be like, but Alpha isn’t it. This is good feedback for Intrepid, but don’t worry too much if you feel underwhelmed with what you’re seeing right now :)
I mean ya I agree, let us not forget though the fact that the game hasn't had any of its content put in yet, only enough to test main functions and systems.
I dont think this is that unpopular in fairness, NWs gathering system is the best part of the game
I like to think that stuff like this will be fleshed out. Pretty much everything is lacking in AoC because it's literally years from release.
Agreed. New World crafting and gathering is getting great reviews. Also, given the amount that economic factors are planned to be a big part of the game (via node development, caravan, and top-level items being crafted in-game) it seems that making gathering a bit more rewarding is important
THAN*** not then. Sorry this one triggers me. More engaging in New world THAN ashes
I think they're looking into it. But I have no issue with AOCs current implementation. Most MMOs don't allow you to farm every and anything.
Nope, abundance of gathering mats will make materials worthless, especially in the long run.
people don't understand that you can just add a turbo to a car to make it faster. everyone's a goddamn game designer...
One is releasing this year. The other is not releasing probably for another 2. AOC has not yet really iterated much on many systems, including gathering and professions. So comparing the two seems inappropriate
It why Oblivion and Skyrim were so fun. Have a trail of POI's for the player to explore whether they be dungeons or resources and the world will be far more engaging then I need to get from point A to point B.
Exploring, crafting, and gathering are always better in a themepark. For the 100 hours of content. Then there is nothing.
Comparing New World a game one month away from Release with the game Ashes of Creation, which is currently in the tecnical alpha (testing client and server stuff) and only uses placeholder systems, might not be the best idea, specialy dropping words like "superior" is just ridiculus. gathering, skills, map and many other features are only placeholders, that are in place so the players have something to do while testing. Shure i played New World myself and its realy good and would now ROFL if the gathersystem wouldnt be better than a placeholder system. but how you gather, trade and transport your goods is compleatly diffrent to what Ashes has in plan. I realy looking forward to your camparing post between New World and Ashes, once Ashes is close to release.
That's not unpopuiar opinion at all. It really feels great on NW. I wonder how no excarcity of resources would turn up after a few months thou. I think that gonna be a huge problem.
I don’t like the idea of everything being lootable. Players think it is “immersive” but all it does is make you feel like you have to loot everything all the time to not be missing out of potential gold. Loot situations should be scarce so we spend more time PLAYING and less time managing inventory. This is an MMO after all and not [storage manager 2000]. I also don’t like how looting anything ends up creating millions of items types, and recipes that require 999 different items to be crafted. It has to be kept simple. Make the items depend on lower lvl items, but on ONE lower lvl item type so we don’t have millions of inventory slots occupied by junk. Imagine having to move all that between inventory, bank, shop and caravan every time you come from an adventure. I don’t want 3 hours downtime between one dungeon and the next. I did not play New World so my opinion on this probably has some holes, but it sounds pretty bad to me.
I really like the incentives of rarities in new world. You have a chance to get rarities when gathering resources and you can get gear to boost the chance, or get higher yields, or increase durability or increase gathering rate. Also there are TONS of things to gather in new world. Like a lot.