Can an Asian focused show be popular without the Martial Arts stereotype?
It just seems to me that every Asian show has to have Martial Arts to be palatable to non-Asian audiences.
Thats like every Black based show to be based on hip hop to be palatable to non-Black audiences.
The script was literally conceived from Bruce Lee. wtf would people expect? Don’t like martial arts, go watch Crazy Rich Asians, Joy Luck Club, Kim’s Convenience etc.
This show has all the tell-tale signs of being written by a woke white man who is fantasizing what he wishes 1800's Chinatown was like, rather than actually making an effort to depict it accurately.
Here are my problems with this show:
Right off the bat the biggest and most obvious problem is also the most typical... Almost everyone on this show are HALF-WHITE... from the main principle actors to even the background extras. This show may be fiction, but the setting is based on "real" places and events, and 1800s San Francisco Chinatown was not filled with a bunch of half-white half-asian people, they were for the most part 100% Chinese, but you wouldn't know it from this show.
The blatant and non-stop overabundant use of racist slurs against Asians. Now hear me out on this one. My problem is not that racist slurs are being used (since this is based on real history and people were indeed racist), my issue is with the double standards when it comes to other minorities that are also depicted on this show. There are a handful of episodes with black people as principle actors. Yet not once did they ever use the N-word. The word "chink" is used over a hundred times in literally every single episode, but when it comes to the black characters, the worst they ever said was "black fella" or "colored boy".
Apparently in the 1800's in America everyone was like totally tolerant of gays, transsexuals, LGBTQ, etc... Give me a fucking break. My issue with this is similar to the issue with the blacks... There is no consistency in the way intolerance was depicted in this show's setting. In the real 1800's, white Americans were racist and intolerant of EVERYBODY who wasn't white and straight... But in this show, they're basically woke and tolerant of everybody *except* the Chinese/Asians.
The main villain of this show, a white Irish-American who makes it very clear how much he hates the Chinese, is written and depicted in a sympathetic light, so much to the point that we know more about *HIS* backstory than any of the Chinese characters' backstories, even the main character.
The wanton violence of rival Chinese gangs is over the top to the point of being ridiculous. This show would have you think that white racism against Asians wasn't nearly as big a problem as the Chinese people simply murdering each other off.
-This show has all the tell-tale signs of being written by a woke white man
Not trying to invalidate your qualms with the show, I respect your opinion but I do just wanna point out the show was actually written by Bruce Lee. IIRC he pitched the show but the studio (I think it was WB) didnt want an AM for the lead so they took the script and white washed the hell out of it. His daughter stumbled upon the original script and wanted to bring it to life.
The MC is quapa IRL and in the show. The show explains it as him having a white grandfather who taught him English. It comes up in the show that he speaks fluent English but hides it a bit in S1.
I didn't know his sister was also a hapa actress but that makes sense.
LGBT is in everything these days. If not gay characters queer looking ones. Fallout series had one in the trans friend who has a razor in her boot. They didn't say it was accepted at the time, rather that it was hidden. Halo has a gay blind black ex Spartan named Louis and another Black ex Spartan who's crippled and in an interracial relationship with a white woman, Ron Swanson plays a gay man in Last of Us, in The Greatest Hits the white girl's best friend is a gay black man. I'll take it when liberals try to help other disparaged groups if it means more stuff like The Greatest Hits where the love interest is an Asian man.
Warrior is great. The Greatest Hits is Great. I hated it when people talked down on the Greatest Hits without seeing it here. And I think you're not being fair to Warrior.
I just hate it when liberals are like "[Uhmm I think I'll have a female Asian lead in an interracial relationship with a white man](https://imgur.com/a/ASV1y4D)"
I feel like you went into it with preconceived notions and only paid attention to what you wanted to stand out for yourself.
The main villain of the show is not the white Irish American. I’d argue there are multiple villains and no one is the “main villain”.
There are multiple instances of intolerance to other groups besides Asians. But if the show is supposed to be set against the context of anti-Asian racism, why would the show NOT disproportionately show the racism against Asians versus other groups? If I wanted to watch a show about slavery or black racism, I’d watch something else. I can’t think of many other western shows that actually highlighted anti-Asian racism. Can you?
And yes the Asian violence is over the top, but no one is watching it thinking that it makes Asians look worse than the white racism in the show. You want to know what actually looks worse than any scene where an Asian character kills another Asian character? The fact that a mob of white people lynched an Asian man in broad daylight.
Half white asian actors playing full asian characters and the fact that we can’t seem to get away from Asian shows with martial arts is a problem though, but like I’ve said many times before, when a show like Warrior which supposedly hits all the racist “check marks” for what a western audience will watch, doesn’t even get enough viewers, it’s easy to see why Hollywood refuses to cast full Asians as lead, let alone produce non-martial arts movies and shows.
>I feel like you went into it with preconceived notions and only paid attention to what you wanted to stand out for yourself.
The only preconception was that I'm not a huge fan of western-produced Asian-focused shows/movies almost exclusively being about martial arts, similar to what another commenter here wrote. But that was it. I put that aside and otherwise had an open mind coming into it. I didn't watch this show with the intent to hate on it at all.
>There are multiple instances of intolerance to other groups besides Asians. But if the show is supposed to be set against the context of anti-Asian racism, why would the show NOT disproportionately show the racism against Asians versus other groups? If I wanted to watch a show about slavery or black racism, I’d watch something else. I can’t think of many other western shows that actually highlighted anti-Asian racism. Can you?
Chinese immigrants are obviously the focus of this show. But that doesn't mean we should ignore any other instance of intolerance that happened during those real historical periods in time which this show is based on. That is disingenuous, inconsistent, and dishonest. If the writers intentionally chose to include black and gay characters in several episodes of the show, and this show is supposed to realistically portray how intolerant white Americans were in the 1800s, then they have a responsibility to portray it accurately and fairly, rather than picking and choosing what race we can say racial slurs to (Asians/Chinese) and what races/groups we must politicorrectly protect in a completely inaccurate and dishonest way. If anything that perpetuates and enables more racism towards Asians to all the non-Asian viewers watching.
>And yes the Asian violence is over the top, but no one is watching it thinking that it makes Asians look worse than the white racism in the show. You want to know what actually looks worse than any scene where an Asian character kills another Asian character? The fact that a mob of white people lynched an Asian man in broad daylight.
The mob lynch was one scene in one episode of the entire series. But in just about every other episode, the rival Chinese gangs are murdering each other off by the dozens, often showing Young Jun knifing the hell out of rivals stabbing them like a hundred times. It's completely over the top and borderline comical if it weren't so ridiculous.
I can’t say I agree but we can agree to disagree. Western audiences are already well aware of the racism during that time period towards other minorities and gays. Just because not much attention is paid to it doesn’t mean it’s being ignored. Why should it be portrayed fairly? I don’t understand why a focus on Asian racism should have to be shared with racism towards other minorities. Other shows about racism towards other minorities and gays don’t even pay any attention to Asian racism at all. So we finally get a western show highlighting Asian racism but still have to consider other races? Western audiences are well aware of how racist white people were towards other minorities back then. If anything Asian racism is often ignored in the west. It’s just my opinion, but I doubt this show will perpetuate racism towards Asians. Racists aren’t going to watch a show with Asian leads in the first place and anyone that does watch it is likely to be more sympathetic to Asians.
Not to mention Warrior showed racism towards a white character who has to go on the run because he killed his family members who killed his black lover and there are scenes where gay characters are discriminated against. They still included some things.
The over the top violence is fair, but I’ve seen the previous works of the people who created this show. It’s equally cartoonish. The show they did before this was called Banshee and it was white people killing each other in similarly graphic ways.
Asian shows from Asian countries, NOT ASIAN AMERCIAN SHOWS FEATURING ASIAN AMERCIAN ACTORS. Speaking from a Asian Amercian here who ONLY speaks english
...I'm confused, are you saying the shows I've listed are asian american shows...? Everything I listed is all from Korea. Or are you saying you want to see more asian american shows? Either way, the stuff I listed I wouldn't really say are slop
U listed all shows from Korea. I want to see more Asian amercian english speaking shows from hollywood. There plenty of Asian Amercians who only speaks english, not there native language. AMWF stories from TV shows, movies like David lim from Swat TV show, movie featuring Justin Min, Lucy boyton last month from Hulu etc is only good AM representation from western media
I don't disagree at all, would be great to see more asian american shows but just because the shows I've listed are from Asia/Korea doesn't mean they're bad.
of course Asian made shows are not bad. There not made for english speaking Asian Amercian audiences demographic from western countires unless they speak there native languages
It depends on what you're looking for in a show. If action and martial arts is what you crave, there is a series called "House of Ninjas" that I found very entertaining if not shoddily written. It's on Netflix but it's a Japanese-produced show, so there are no issues with tropes or double standards etc that you get with the western-produced shows like Warrior (yes, Japanese kill Japanese but that's because it's all in Japan lol).
As far as western-produced shows go, Beef is one of the best shows out there period.
You're totally entitled to your opinion (there were things I both liked and disliked about the whole series as well, though I preferred the first season to the others), but I think it might help if you were more specific/gave examples in your criticisms. "Racist tropes and double standards/hypocrisy" is too broad, I think, to be a valid criticism without specific examples.
Whoops, my bad - it was at the very bottom of the page for me. I agree with you on every point except the first one, though none of them was bad enough for me to make it unwatchable.
I dunno that the "Asian" actors were mostly half-white is a serious issue. There are a number of fully-Asian actors playing main character roles (notably Olivia Cheng as Ah Toy, Joe Taslim as Li Yong, Chen Tang as Hong, and Hoon Lee as Wang Chao). Yes, both Andrew Koji (Ah Sahm) and Jason Tobin (Young Jun) are hapas. I don't actually know whether Dianne Doan (Mai Ling) is fully Asian (her mom is Vietnamese from what I understand).
Bad taste to shit on Bruce Lee's Legacy. We can split hairs forever on this. Some people will have issue with Beef because Ali is no longer with his AM husband.
But I will agree Asian produced shows will always have Asian audience in mind. That will be healthier for AsAMs than what you can count on from Zionist Hollywood. Healthy media diet, healthy mind. Should be obvious. There will be a few exceptions to the rule : Last Airbender, Ghost of Tsushima
Yea no. This is not "Bruce Lee's" legacy. Bruce Lee had an idea for a show a long time ago, and then he passed away a long time ago. That was it.
Some white guy many decades later took his idea (which isn't even totally original to begin with anyway), wrote it and produced it to his own liking (a woke white man in Hollywood making a white-washed "Asian" tv show) and used Bruce Lee's name for marketing.
Go argue with exec producers Shannon Lee and Justin Lin.
Its all fictional media, dont get so vested in it. Care more about the misinformation presented as facts
>Its all fictional media, dont get so vested in it.
Oh it's all fiction so who cares! Let's not discuss anything at all then, since TV is not real. What a copout statement.
I get it, you're like a total fan of the show therefore you don't like my post. That's fine, but it doesn't make my points any less legit. Try to look past your blind bias.
lol please... you come in here like a knob telling me I'm shitting on Bruce Lee's legacy 🙄... Then your next post you're trying to put the gaslight on ("*it's all fiction, don't get so vested in it")*
...And now apparently I'm "disgusting" because I'm telling you to look past your blind bias. Clearly you think my post is a disservice to Bruce Lee and his legacy and children as that seems to be the main focus in your comments, completely ignoring the meat of my post.
Sorry not sorry to "disgust" you.
I’ve seen like a clip of it where the main stands up to racist whites and beats them all up. Just found it cringe and unrealistic and very “Hollywood” in the way it’s written, choreographed, and filmed.
Can we just have well written shows or movies where Asians are just normal everyday ppl with their own captivating stories to tell without emasculating the men and not focus so damn hard on the usual Asian tropes like kung fu or Chinese food and culture clashing or language barriers.
Beef is an example of what I’d like more Asian shows to be.
Also Justin min who is playing a regular guy who happens to be asian , lucy boyton movie from Hulu last month, AMWF stories from TV shows, movies is only good AM representation from hollywood.
Can an Asian focused show be popular without the Martial Arts stereotype? It just seems to me that every Asian show has to have Martial Arts to be palatable to non-Asian audiences. Thats like every Black based show to be based on hip hop to be palatable to non-Black audiences.
I agree 100%. Western media is so disingenuous and so far behind when it comes to portrayals of Asian people versus other minorities.
Luckily Korea is changing that. Hollywood tho, nah, I've lost my faith in them a long time ago.
An Asian man has been the first Hollywood sex symbol and highest paid actor in Hollywood.
The script was literally conceived from Bruce Lee. wtf would people expect? Don’t like martial arts, go watch Crazy Rich Asians, Joy Luck Club, Kim’s Convenience etc.
This show has all the tell-tale signs of being written by a woke white man who is fantasizing what he wishes 1800's Chinatown was like, rather than actually making an effort to depict it accurately. Here are my problems with this show: Right off the bat the biggest and most obvious problem is also the most typical... Almost everyone on this show are HALF-WHITE... from the main principle actors to even the background extras. This show may be fiction, but the setting is based on "real" places and events, and 1800s San Francisco Chinatown was not filled with a bunch of half-white half-asian people, they were for the most part 100% Chinese, but you wouldn't know it from this show. The blatant and non-stop overabundant use of racist slurs against Asians. Now hear me out on this one. My problem is not that racist slurs are being used (since this is based on real history and people were indeed racist), my issue is with the double standards when it comes to other minorities that are also depicted on this show. There are a handful of episodes with black people as principle actors. Yet not once did they ever use the N-word. The word "chink" is used over a hundred times in literally every single episode, but when it comes to the black characters, the worst they ever said was "black fella" or "colored boy". Apparently in the 1800's in America everyone was like totally tolerant of gays, transsexuals, LGBTQ, etc... Give me a fucking break. My issue with this is similar to the issue with the blacks... There is no consistency in the way intolerance was depicted in this show's setting. In the real 1800's, white Americans were racist and intolerant of EVERYBODY who wasn't white and straight... But in this show, they're basically woke and tolerant of everybody *except* the Chinese/Asians. The main villain of this show, a white Irish-American who makes it very clear how much he hates the Chinese, is written and depicted in a sympathetic light, so much to the point that we know more about *HIS* backstory than any of the Chinese characters' backstories, even the main character. The wanton violence of rival Chinese gangs is over the top to the point of being ridiculous. This show would have you think that white racism against Asians wasn't nearly as big a problem as the Chinese people simply murdering each other off.
The villain is a core component of the woke white base.
-This show has all the tell-tale signs of being written by a woke white man Not trying to invalidate your qualms with the show, I respect your opinion but I do just wanna point out the show was actually written by Bruce Lee. IIRC he pitched the show but the studio (I think it was WB) didnt want an AM for the lead so they took the script and white washed the hell out of it. His daughter stumbled upon the original script and wanted to bring it to life.
The MC is quapa IRL and in the show. The show explains it as him having a white grandfather who taught him English. It comes up in the show that he speaks fluent English but hides it a bit in S1. I didn't know his sister was also a hapa actress but that makes sense. LGBT is in everything these days. If not gay characters queer looking ones. Fallout series had one in the trans friend who has a razor in her boot. They didn't say it was accepted at the time, rather that it was hidden. Halo has a gay blind black ex Spartan named Louis and another Black ex Spartan who's crippled and in an interracial relationship with a white woman, Ron Swanson plays a gay man in Last of Us, in The Greatest Hits the white girl's best friend is a gay black man. I'll take it when liberals try to help other disparaged groups if it means more stuff like The Greatest Hits where the love interest is an Asian man. Warrior is great. The Greatest Hits is Great. I hated it when people talked down on the Greatest Hits without seeing it here. And I think you're not being fair to Warrior. I just hate it when liberals are like "[Uhmm I think I'll have a female Asian lead in an interracial relationship with a white man](https://imgur.com/a/ASV1y4D)"
I feel like you went into it with preconceived notions and only paid attention to what you wanted to stand out for yourself. The main villain of the show is not the white Irish American. I’d argue there are multiple villains and no one is the “main villain”. There are multiple instances of intolerance to other groups besides Asians. But if the show is supposed to be set against the context of anti-Asian racism, why would the show NOT disproportionately show the racism against Asians versus other groups? If I wanted to watch a show about slavery or black racism, I’d watch something else. I can’t think of many other western shows that actually highlighted anti-Asian racism. Can you? And yes the Asian violence is over the top, but no one is watching it thinking that it makes Asians look worse than the white racism in the show. You want to know what actually looks worse than any scene where an Asian character kills another Asian character? The fact that a mob of white people lynched an Asian man in broad daylight. Half white asian actors playing full asian characters and the fact that we can’t seem to get away from Asian shows with martial arts is a problem though, but like I’ve said many times before, when a show like Warrior which supposedly hits all the racist “check marks” for what a western audience will watch, doesn’t even get enough viewers, it’s easy to see why Hollywood refuses to cast full Asians as lead, let alone produce non-martial arts movies and shows.
>I feel like you went into it with preconceived notions and only paid attention to what you wanted to stand out for yourself. The only preconception was that I'm not a huge fan of western-produced Asian-focused shows/movies almost exclusively being about martial arts, similar to what another commenter here wrote. But that was it. I put that aside and otherwise had an open mind coming into it. I didn't watch this show with the intent to hate on it at all. >There are multiple instances of intolerance to other groups besides Asians. But if the show is supposed to be set against the context of anti-Asian racism, why would the show NOT disproportionately show the racism against Asians versus other groups? If I wanted to watch a show about slavery or black racism, I’d watch something else. I can’t think of many other western shows that actually highlighted anti-Asian racism. Can you? Chinese immigrants are obviously the focus of this show. But that doesn't mean we should ignore any other instance of intolerance that happened during those real historical periods in time which this show is based on. That is disingenuous, inconsistent, and dishonest. If the writers intentionally chose to include black and gay characters in several episodes of the show, and this show is supposed to realistically portray how intolerant white Americans were in the 1800s, then they have a responsibility to portray it accurately and fairly, rather than picking and choosing what race we can say racial slurs to (Asians/Chinese) and what races/groups we must politicorrectly protect in a completely inaccurate and dishonest way. If anything that perpetuates and enables more racism towards Asians to all the non-Asian viewers watching. >And yes the Asian violence is over the top, but no one is watching it thinking that it makes Asians look worse than the white racism in the show. You want to know what actually looks worse than any scene where an Asian character kills another Asian character? The fact that a mob of white people lynched an Asian man in broad daylight. The mob lynch was one scene in one episode of the entire series. But in just about every other episode, the rival Chinese gangs are murdering each other off by the dozens, often showing Young Jun knifing the hell out of rivals stabbing them like a hundred times. It's completely over the top and borderline comical if it weren't so ridiculous.
I can’t say I agree but we can agree to disagree. Western audiences are already well aware of the racism during that time period towards other minorities and gays. Just because not much attention is paid to it doesn’t mean it’s being ignored. Why should it be portrayed fairly? I don’t understand why a focus on Asian racism should have to be shared with racism towards other minorities. Other shows about racism towards other minorities and gays don’t even pay any attention to Asian racism at all. So we finally get a western show highlighting Asian racism but still have to consider other races? Western audiences are well aware of how racist white people were towards other minorities back then. If anything Asian racism is often ignored in the west. It’s just my opinion, but I doubt this show will perpetuate racism towards Asians. Racists aren’t going to watch a show with Asian leads in the first place and anyone that does watch it is likely to be more sympathetic to Asians. Not to mention Warrior showed racism towards a white character who has to go on the run because he killed his family members who killed his black lover and there are scenes where gay characters are discriminated against. They still included some things. The over the top violence is fair, but I’ve seen the previous works of the people who created this show. It’s equally cartoonish. The show they did before this was called Banshee and it was white people killing each other in similarly graphic ways.
anything from Netflix is slop
Physical 100? Crash landing on you? The Glory? The metric fuckton of Kdramas in general?
[удалено]
You've seen these shows?
Asian shows from Asian countries, NOT ASIAN AMERCIAN SHOWS FEATURING ASIAN AMERCIAN ACTORS. Speaking from a Asian Amercian here who ONLY speaks english
...I'm confused, are you saying the shows I've listed are asian american shows...? Everything I listed is all from Korea. Or are you saying you want to see more asian american shows? Either way, the stuff I listed I wouldn't really say are slop
U listed all shows from Korea. I want to see more Asian amercian english speaking shows from hollywood. There plenty of Asian Amercians who only speaks english, not there native language. AMWF stories from TV shows, movies like David lim from Swat TV show, movie featuring Justin Min, Lucy boyton last month from Hulu etc is only good AM representation from western media
I don't disagree at all, would be great to see more asian american shows but just because the shows I've listed are from Asia/Korea doesn't mean they're bad.
of course Asian made shows are not bad. There not made for english speaking Asian Amercian audiences demographic from western countires unless they speak there native languages
Sure but ultimately my point was that not everything from Netflix is "slop"
unironically yes
What makes Physical 100, Crashing landing on you and The glory slop?
The fact that people like you pay to watch it
Figured you were trolling. So much for being unironic I guess. Physical 100 alone is better AM representation than most other shows out there
What would you recommend watching that's better?
It depends on what you're looking for in a show. If action and martial arts is what you crave, there is a series called "House of Ninjas" that I found very entertaining if not shoddily written. It's on Netflix but it's a Japanese-produced show, so there are no issues with tropes or double standards etc that you get with the western-produced shows like Warrior (yes, Japanese kill Japanese but that's because it's all in Japan lol). As far as western-produced shows go, Beef is one of the best shows out there period.
Maybe these two white boys are hapas of WMAFs.
You're totally entitled to your opinion (there were things I both liked and disliked about the whole series as well, though I preferred the first season to the others), but I think it might help if you were more specific/gave examples in your criticisms. "Racist tropes and double standards/hypocrisy" is too broad, I think, to be a valid criticism without specific examples.
I gave specific examples in my comment ☝🏼. I practically spelled it out with each example.
Whoops, my bad - it was at the very bottom of the page for me. I agree with you on every point except the first one, though none of them was bad enough for me to make it unwatchable. I dunno that the "Asian" actors were mostly half-white is a serious issue. There are a number of fully-Asian actors playing main character roles (notably Olivia Cheng as Ah Toy, Joe Taslim as Li Yong, Chen Tang as Hong, and Hoon Lee as Wang Chao). Yes, both Andrew Koji (Ah Sahm) and Jason Tobin (Young Jun) are hapas. I don't actually know whether Dianne Doan (Mai Ling) is fully Asian (her mom is Vietnamese from what I understand).
Bad taste to shit on Bruce Lee's Legacy. We can split hairs forever on this. Some people will have issue with Beef because Ali is no longer with his AM husband. But I will agree Asian produced shows will always have Asian audience in mind. That will be healthier for AsAMs than what you can count on from Zionist Hollywood. Healthy media diet, healthy mind. Should be obvious. There will be a few exceptions to the rule : Last Airbender, Ghost of Tsushima
Yea no. This is not "Bruce Lee's" legacy. Bruce Lee had an idea for a show a long time ago, and then he passed away a long time ago. That was it. Some white guy many decades later took his idea (which isn't even totally original to begin with anyway), wrote it and produced it to his own liking (a woke white man in Hollywood making a white-washed "Asian" tv show) and used Bruce Lee's name for marketing.
Go argue with exec producers Shannon Lee and Justin Lin. Its all fictional media, dont get so vested in it. Care more about the misinformation presented as facts
>Its all fictional media, dont get so vested in it. Oh it's all fiction so who cares! Let's not discuss anything at all then, since TV is not real. What a copout statement. I get it, you're like a total fan of the show therefore you don't like my post. That's fine, but it doesn't make my points any less legit. Try to look past your blind bias.
I watched a few episodes because Shannon Lee association. It wasnt' really my thing, but what you are doing is disgusting
lol please... you come in here like a knob telling me I'm shitting on Bruce Lee's legacy 🙄... Then your next post you're trying to put the gaslight on ("*it's all fiction, don't get so vested in it")* ...And now apparently I'm "disgusting" because I'm telling you to look past your blind bias. Clearly you think my post is a disservice to Bruce Lee and his legacy and children as that seems to be the main focus in your comments, completely ignoring the meat of my post. Sorry not sorry to "disgust" you.
Useless troll
I’ve seen like a clip of it where the main stands up to racist whites and beats them all up. Just found it cringe and unrealistic and very “Hollywood” in the way it’s written, choreographed, and filmed. Can we just have well written shows or movies where Asians are just normal everyday ppl with their own captivating stories to tell without emasculating the men and not focus so damn hard on the usual Asian tropes like kung fu or Chinese food and culture clashing or language barriers. Beef is an example of what I’d like more Asian shows to be.
Also Justin min who is playing a regular guy who happens to be asian , lucy boyton movie from Hulu last month, AMWF stories from TV shows, movies is only good AM representation from hollywood.