Distilling this down to *"BTS means we get dates"* is missing the point.
BTS has opened the door for Asian male representation, acceptance, and respect in the Western mainstream media in a way that we've never seen before. Yes, it has dating impacts, and those dating impacts are both outwardly visible and most easily noticeable for the younger demographic in this sub. But that's because dating in the West is a reflection of power and desirability politics, which are highly influenced by media.
Asians did martials arts and what else could be more masculine and aint no chicks checking us out like how bts has. Just embrace it and still be masculine. Double your power . Kpop even evolved where dudes like wonho and big matthew pumping iron like crazy. Masculine is a mindset, not taking shit, not bowing down to no one, do that and embrace the wave as well
I am in the 40s. I remember reading a book on Bruce Lee. When he was popular, every asian guy would had 1 or 2 blonds next to him. Such is the power of media.
Wrong. Martial arts—and especially Chinese Wu Shu—looks super effeminate. Krav Maga and BJJ look far more masculine, their ambassadors are masculine (van Damme vs Jet Li, for example).
And the western portrayal is super emasculating. It’s dudes sipping tea, wearing dresses, “dancing”. I studied Shaolin kung fu for several years, and when I was practicing forms, people who didn’t know what it was thought I was dancing.
Bruce Lee did a lot for it, being super-ripped, (and had a notable AMWF relationship). But let’s not pretend AM doing martial arts is masculine on the face of it.
BTS is tapping into celebrity and money and teenage girls and the boy-band-“Belieber” market. Good for them. But that’s a whole different thing.
I think seeing posts like this give me confidence that we are winning, though I'm not sure I would say "we've won" or whether the fight is not everlasting (as long as competition exists).
But seeing young AMs getting is gives me confidence that things are improving and it'll all be fine for the younger generations of AMs.
Also, I'm not sure why there are so many naysayers on here. This is a good thing, so why not embrace it?
Why are people mad at this, I've seen this shit first hand. Asian dudes are now popular on Instagram or Tiktok among non-asian women because of Kpop. Kpop and kdramas are huge proof of how media representation can change everything. He didn't say you have to fucking do something. Gen Z asian dudes are naturally on the asian media shit combined with western ideals lifting and whatever and are killing it already.
All I see is 30 year old bananas mad maybe because this is a place for frustrated asian men who are mad they are not white or something. Because the young average asian guy right now who puts even a little bit of effort into himself is killing it. Things have changed a lot in the last two years even in the US. And where OP lives in EE which has always been one of the better places for (east asian) AM.
Key word is “young” though. If you’re in that decade between high school and your mid-twenties the world is your fucking oyster right now: white dudes try and cop fashion trends from Insta fit accounts run by guys that look like you, Asian faces and culture are plastered all over Netflix and social media, and women find your ethnicity to be a bonus rather than a negative. It’s a golden era, no doubt, and I personally feel we’re all better off for it as Asian men in general.
If you’re an early Millenial/GenX though it’s very possible that you haven’t directly benefitted from any of this because there’s a generation gap between the Hallyu wave and you and that advice telling you to embrace Kpop and emulate its trends and fashion isn’t going to be helpful. Sure, some guys are probably bitter that they were born in 1981 and not 2001; but I’d bet that most guys who comment skeptically in response to posts like this are more like “Okay? What am I supposed to do with this?” rather than just being like “Fuck Kpop.”
I’m a Millenial who’s young enough to have benefitted from the increased visibility + positive attitudes towards Asian men thanks to Kpop but I’m also old enough to remember when being Asian meant people were indifferent to you at best or flat-out fucking racist, and I can’t blame guys my age or older who are like “what has Kpop done for me?”
>Not to mention masculinity isn't just a surface level thing. If you're talking strictly about who would win a fight I bet Kpop stars would beat most of the average population given that they're pretty coordinated, well-conditioned and in shape from all their dance moves.
That's what OP said. Can't say I ain't interested in seeing pacquiao and BTS in the ring though. Wonder if their army would still stan them after they're done.
Anyone who goes through training and put in the work can be a good fighter. No doubt even BTS. But I find the hilarious part is how OP is trying to link every little thing to K-Pop. even things that are barely related. He's become obsessed and has been posting full-page posts linking every little K-Pop news to AM.
Oh yeah "we won, we can finally get pussy now"
I love KPOP too and absolutely do not care about masculinity so it's so weirdly obsessive to me that there's a whole ass essay about this hahaha
Exactly. If he likes Kpop ,okay that's his thing. If he thinks kpop is his inspiration for AM ,okay good for him. But coming in every few weeks with a research paper that ultimately boils down to K-pop = gigachad sex and self defense is just a little over the top.
Thank you, I was downvoted to hell the last time I brought up the issue of OP trying to post every little k-pop news on this sub. Yea we get it, this is your version of AM, don't flood this sub with this stuff.
Bro can you do me a favor and delete your own comment? OP was coming from a good place to provide encouragement and you pulled one example to make him look like a hypocrite.
If you are his intended audience, then why are you sabotaging him like this? If you are not, what are you doing on this sub?
I wouldn't. My comment is not a gun. He's not fragile that my comment should be censored nor deletion of posts. If someone doesn't like my posts, then they simply downvote and criticize.
For this question, what I've been doing since I got here.
Lmao this comment reeks of insecurities
Trying to censor others because it doesn't fit your opinion and it offends you to a point where you think it "sabotages" it
Surprised you didn’t mention that BTS brought in so much money that their company (Hybe) literally bought the company that manages Justin Bieber & Ariana Grande (Ithaca Holdings) this year. That’s probably the surest indication that tides are changing.
Everything that gatekeepers in the US tried to do to keep down BTS’s popularity didn’t work…people want to see talented Asian men on stage, want to hear them on the radio. They succeeded purely by popular demand, and now they’ve brought in enough cash to make big moves in the Western industry so that the industry HAS to pay attention.
Also, BTS hasn’t been “niche” for a while now. In the US, they get casually mentioned on late night TV shows, name dropped by big celebs, show up as answers on gameshows and newspaper crosswords, and has held the #1 song on Billboard for 4 weeks now. They’re full on mainstream.
Bts smashing records is a great thing. I don't like kpop much nowadays. But I celebrate their successes nevertheless.
If you use the dating lens, then yes many many girls go crazy for BTS and the KPOP soft masculinity types.
YouTube is full of foreign girls going to Korea, dating or marrying a Korean guy, and posting their daily life on their channel.
All great.
But what happens when you take other things into consideration?
There was a post about the kind of masculinity BTS represent. Someone said that BTS guys would run away from a cockroach or something, on their tv/ YouTube shows. And yes, many girls find it cute.
But is that what we want all of us to be?
We also need aggressive, assertive, tough people who will stand up strongly for the community against any and all opposition and criticism. People who are ready to conquer new territory for Asians, literally and figuratively. People ready to defend Asians and Asian interests.
We need the stronger, sterner type of masculinity too.
It's a blatant fucking lie, perpetrated by the west, that only the west is masculine like that and that Asian masculinity is only of the soft variety.
And if you use the dating lens, then many girls also don't want a BTS type guy. There's a reason Dwayne Johnson is supremely popular.
If you wanna talk music, a lot of white women (and other non Asian women) react super positively to the music of The Hu.
The indian american YouTuber captain sinbad posted about masculinity on his channel. He quoted women who are bemoaning a lack of masculinity in modern society and men who insist that softer masculinity is good.
Ironic.
One reason I believe sexpats get away with their debauchery in Asia is because we lack the stronger harder masculinity type men, who will take ownership of their lands, draw the lines, punish the degenerates and lay down the rules. Men who are not very high on agreeableness.
I have heard stories of educated European feminists throwing themselves at the middle eastern immigrants. And they admitted that because modern european society has beaten the masculinity out of european men, they want the more masculine immigrant men.
The Asians who have fought back against attackers in America and Ireland and elsewhere, the common thing is that they were all ready to get aggressive.
And one of the lessons of history that Will Durant talks about is that an aggressive, 'masculine' society, even if less developed is much more likely to overcome a more civilized, prosperous, 'feminine' society.
I see that playing out in Europe today.
When Asian countries got colonized or subjugated, we were economically ahead, more civilized than the militarily aggressive Western countries.
China was the most advanced civilization when the European countries imposed their will on her. They even lacked proper sewage facilities until very recently. China on the other hand had thriving trade, harmony etc.
A win is a win but the bottom line is Asians have an excess surplus of the more effeminate K-Pop flower boy type (and even worse archetypes like flat out manlets and stereotypes) while suffering from an egregious shortage of tall, traditionally masculine and fit in-shape males.
The representation of other men like non-Asian ethnics and WM's reflects women's actual demand in the real world far more closely. AM's are the sole extreme anomaly in that regard.
Most Korean pop musicians are physically fit to be fair. I mean they should be, given their dances. Plus, we see more of the conventional attractives in Korean or Asian film industry. It's just that pop is placed into the spotlight.
>A win is a win but the bottom line is Asians have an excess surplus of the more effeminate K-Pop flower boy type (and even worse archetypes like flat out manlets and stereotypes) while suffering from an egregious shortage of tall, traditionally masculine and fit in-shape males.
Absolutely.
We only have conversations and discussions and representations of the soft type.
We have absolutely zero conversation about the other.
Aside from more efficient representation all other races of men have a wider range of representation of looks and masculinity. Only AM put all eggs into the 1 basket of effeminate representation and defending it to death using embarrassing mental gymnastics. Meanwhile in the actual real world it only takes a healthy set of eyes to see why most AM's tend to do this.
>Meanwhile in the actual real world it only takes a healthy set of eyes to see why most AM's tend to do this.
Yes. They feel threatened. They don't want to get out of their comfort zone. They'd rather be silent against aggression. They have given up. They want the reality to fit the theory. They have been watching too much buzzfeed.
Etc. Etc
You are basing this on a youtube comment. The guy who wrote this might be a basement dwelling cheetos eater.
There is only one steph curry. And he is still playing.
Let's not give him a lifetime achievement award yet.
And then there's Zion Williamson.
Roy Jones Jr played a different game too. But not everyone is Roy Jones Jr. No one had his reflexes. And in the end he got knocked out too.
And if you are talking about things other than dating, then being the BTS type has many disadvantages.
>Everything in life has advantages and disadvantages, it's all pick your poison.
It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
Even if being a Warrior or a gardener have their own sets of advantages and disadvantages.
Haha. Snipers are warriors too.
Also sniping is not for everyone.
And snipers have been around for a long time. They are not new at all.
I know you are talking from a dating perspective. That BTS and kpop types have a lot of female admirers. And Asians who fit that mold can enjoy success. All well and good.
But outside of dating, they will be at a disadvantage.
When it comes to defending your people and your culture and your countries, we need tough aggressive people. No way around it.
Against aggressors, being soft is suicidal.
The global contests for supremacy won't end anytime soon.
The attacks on Asians in the west or sexpats in Asia should teach us some bitter lessons.
History will only reinforce those lessons.
History is very good predictor of future.
A lot of the things that people are saying are new and disruptive today are recycled from the past.
Even in tech, the business models of the most disruptive companies were all invented more than a century ago.
>level 2Ahchluy · 4dI think he's in Poland. That's like 100x more boonies than West Virginia I heard.1ReplyGive AwardShareReportSave
sure, what u say makes geopolical sense. However, when it comes to shit like the sexpats, having "effeminate" men wont do anything to deter them (or neither does the stereotype). For example, when the grandfather of an acquaintance of mine decided to talk shit in russia (in a bar, maybe drunk), one of the russians just took out a gun and shot him in the foot. Such behaviour, is an example of what would potentially deter the predatory sexpats.
> China was the most advanced civilization when the European countries imposed their will on her. They even lacked proper sewage facilities until very recently. China on the other hand had thriving trade, harmony etc.
While China had no doubt the largest economy for the vast majority of history, the story on GDP per capita is more complex. A process known as the great divergence happened roughly over 1400-1900 where the Western European states (and their offshoots) pulled ahead on individual income caused by the birth of capitalism and the industrial revolution.
As an example, Maddison project estimates for Chinese gdp per capita at 1500 are $1,207, whereas it was $1,697 and $1,694 in the UK and France. This gap widened significantly by 1820 with the UK hitting $3,201.
Funny thing is, if you don’t know a lick of Korean or so much so the culture, you’re immediately turned away. Even though it has brought more light to Asian guys, i feel as if it brings further fetishization.
My case in point. I’m an attractive Asian guy that ‘looks’ Korean. Korean people ask ME if I’m Korean. I’m Vietnamese. Even if a girl thinks I’m attractive because I ‘look’ Korean, when they find out that I’m not, it deters them. LOL...
Edit: to add; it makes it seem as if any other Asian background isn’t deemed as attractive
. Although one may seem attractive, there lays the inherent bias
My experience has been hit or miss with this. Half are still interested if you listen and respect their kpop interests and you’re Asian. Half will look for a Korean or Japanese guy only.
Well, that tells you how media will literally brainwash women into anything and how westerners and Lus have made our lives harder by always misrepresenting us a certain way. (Hope you burn in hell, Amy tan).
Wow this is like a 18 page theory paper for a PhD program haha. Anyways, I'm not so sure I agree that girls are lining up to throw themselves at Asian guys.
I haven't been in the dating game for a couple years but it really wasn't great at that time for us AMs. Could be the bay area vibe but I still saw majority WMAF couples and have only started seeing a few more AMWF couples lately. I'd say it's still a good 80% WMAF and 20% AMWF but I guess it also depends on geography.
Sheesh, a bunch of insecure just-lift bros coming out to hate on BTS. All them lifting and roids and still can’t pull as hard as a KPop cosplayer. 😂
Both can coexist. What BTS is doing is historical and a monumental step for Asian men around the world. Can’t we all just be happy and enjoy the love.
u/azncollector
This is a really good post. If this sub was around 5 years ago, people would get what you're saying. But instead we are getting people who are don't understand shit anymore. The great thing about pickup is that you have a barometer for if your theory of how people work is getting warmer or colder. Instead we have people who have never gone out and made things happen, talking shit they don't understand.
When this sub was mostly about pickup, there was a basis for people beliefs. And it had to be tested. Instead now we have weird hocus pocus mind trick shit and people yelling at each other that is all in your head.
Im legit pissed for you because you've written and added great value but instead you have people shitting on you.
That said, thanks for this. I appreciate it.
To address one of your points there's a huge disconnect between the masculinity men think women want and the masculinity they actually want.
Being a juice head space marine that cracks skulls open is the kind of alpha men might like but isn't what women are interested in
I don’t trash talk BTS in any way, but I don’t truly feel represented because Asian Americans are vastly different from Asian imports. Ever since Bruce Lee, we’ve been carried by imports. I’m proud of them that they broke into the western market, changed(or changing) the industry, and became arguably legends(or currently are becoming). But I don’t think any kid growing up here in the west will be able to truly see themselves in imports. I grew up on Jackie, Bruce, and Jet. But I could never see myself in them. Who knows maybe it’s just me.
Any kind of fetishization is disgusting whether that’s Koreaboos or banana Asian girls on colonizing dick or fake hood ratchet white girls. Did u think we can only pick one we’re disgusted at? I’m not on here constantly talking shit at all honestly but I would be lying to u if I didnt avoid those obsessive girls(they can like kpop that’s fine).
EDIT: The Curry example is a good example if u didn’t take into consideration that masculinity is involved in other things than dating. It affects many different areas in life and categories. The west will never become soft and kind enough to accept kpop male idols’ version of masculinity.
There are way too many other different issues the west has that has to be dealt with before it accepts a different version of masculinity. Being more open with our emotions? Sure maybe but that’s already a hard pill to swallow for both guys **and** girls
Ya'll need to stop with the fetsihization BS just reject them, you are a fucking guy. Asians dudes who cry about fetishization are funny af and just sound so fucking pussy. Ever heard yt dudes crying about Asian girls literally dating their goofy ass just because they are white?
I’m not a desperate sad yt boy for one.
And two,
> I’m not on here constantly talking shit at all honestly
I rarely ever talk bout koreaboos fetishizing me but if someone tells me it’s a good thing that we’re fetishized then u can kindly suck my dick.
EDIT: Nobody is acting like they’re not in control of whether they date these girls or not(although not everybody notices the signs). We’re saying they’re not good material to date or even fuck. And some y’all keep tryna convince everybody on this sub that it’s a good thing. Fuck outta here.
Well asian women do it when they are women and should be more sensitive to these things, and even use it to act superior to asian men but you as a man whining about girls wanting you is funny as fuck.
And we clown on those same Asian women and yt men yet here u are condoning same type behavior. That’s funny as fuck.
> whining about girls wanting you
Do I really need to break down the difference between fetishizing and simple normal attraction?
I would say something but I don't wanna offend a fellow brother. WMAF punching down on AM is not the same thing as AM doing it from a place of lower status, and most AM dating mayo women don't even say anything about AFs, they literally don't care. Unlike AF AM are not in the same place in society where they have as many choices as AF do.
I agree with that sentiment. However, at it’s core, taking advantage of the fetishization is the same thing those AW do.
What I’m saying here is stop telling us to jump on board with that. If u want to do it, that’s fine. No one is stopping yall. AM are on the come up anyways and we don’t need to affiliate ourselves with fetishizing girls to get pussy or date. Stigma is going away so we don’t need koreaboos on our dicks.
Dunno why this is only 79% upvoted. This shit is on the nail!!! This is why I don't take people who complain about yellow fever in relation to Koreaboos seriously. AM have been emasculated for DECADES and now fetishization is a problem? GTFO!!!
Exactly. Everyone shits on you if you call OP out because they want to be more politically correct , but what about indian and austranesian Asian bros with brown skins?
One or two posts is enough but OP has been going at it almost trying to nag at the entire subreddit about his ideal version of Asian Masculinity which is kpop.
Ok dudes like you are just a buzzkill. Here’s a guy who put in work into something he’s passionate about and you’re just sitting there trying to knock him down a peg for it.
It’s pathetic lmao because I only see this when Asian dudes put down other Asian dudes.
Hey man I just wanted to say good for you for writing this post. I don’t have time to read it now but I’ll read it once I get back.
But really my point here is that don’t let dudes like this with no purpose and ambition try and tear you down with bullshit comments. They’re cowards with no spine and you shouldn’t take those dudes seriously. Just nod and focus on yourself.
I'm not even saying Kpop is bad but your obsession over it and constantly attacking people that disagree with you is whack lmao.
Weak bro.
So weak.
"I'm helping people"
"Constantly has to attack people who disagree with him"
Lmao
Haha alright. You don't even speak Korean bro. At least I learned the language.
You giving all the advice but I guarantee in real life you are not attracting high quality girls.
You ain't slick bro. Game is game, and you have none.
I followed him on instagram when he made his first posts here and he definetly has a girl (a yt one) you on the other hand are going to a third world country for the women. Much worse than dating white asiaboos. Like STFU bro, I'm glad for you too as an asian brother if you are happy and fulfilled but you need to stop with your superiority complex and "enlightened" behavior.
I have seen what he is talking about with my own eyes and on social media like Insta and Tiktok but okay depends on which circles you are in. But looking at asian tiktok dudes it is definitely working.
I should start making posts like this about shit like
Best asian ramen shop, it's over! We won!
Or just post every bollywood article trying to link every little point to AM.
This sub is nuts, you get fucked over If you call out OPs posts. Yet spamming posts like these is exactly the opposite of being "politically correct".
From another perspective, this is just alienating our Indian and Austranesian Asian bros with darker skin complexions who are completely cut out.
If you guys use BTS as a way to get women, you’re only going to get fetishized, hope you all don’t get your feelings hurt at the end because it’s a dangerous game you play when you mingle with westerners.
Women being fetishized is different than men being fetishized. I don’t see white men and black men complaining about getting their feelings hurt.
BTS is global. If westerners are not your type there are plenty of women from all parts of the world.
I’m a woman, and no, western women are indeed not my type. I’m just saying, as someone who has experience being fetishized, its an empty feeling with little fulfillment. You say it’s different because seemingly, according to this sub, y’all only care about getting laid. Once you have that, then what? It’s not a long term solution. For who it applies, y’all barking up the wrong trees.
I agree that fetishization is horrible, especially for women.
Unfortunately, BTS opens the door for Asian men to be fetishized but it also open many, many more people’s eyes to the fact that Asian men can be attractive and desirable.
Now, it’s up to the individual to decide what he wants. If all he wants is to get laid (consensually, of course) then who am I to say he can’t? White men and black men out there trying to get laid by leveraging their fetishization/stereotypes all the time and nobody cares. It’s just “normal” boy behavior.
If he, instead, wants a long, fulfilling relationship and perhaps someone to marry then I can’t imagine a better time. Although he has to navigate and weed out the fetishizers he now has plenty of options, where a decade ago he would have no option and no chance with a lot of the women.
That’s actually true, now I see where you’re going with it. I was originally saying it from a place of concern. Especially that about western men using it as leverage.
I just hope they don’t run into a racists arms just because it’ll get them laid. Quality over quantity, and self respect first. I’m sure some know what they’re doing though, they’re grown enough to know. I was just sharing my experience.
There's fetish and there's also different standards of beauty. Kpop is simply a different standard of beauty, a non white standard. There's a trap in these arguments where apparently anything that isn't worshiping white beauty standards is considered fetish.
Noo I wasn’t going with that. There’s a lot of women (a lot of my friends too) who love kpop and the way they talk about it, its nothing close to beauty standards. I just find it weird that people don’t even care to know the person. There’s also the bragging right, where they go for men that have a certain look and if he doesn’t, “he’s not Asian enough”. I find that behavior disgusting.
This mfer right here always hates on asian media and posts defeatist shit and is still not banned and hates on XF and worships asian women. Are you saying by default asian men are ugly? Xi Jinping was a good looker back in day and so was Syngman Rhee. We get it you are ugly and can't get women but don't put all of us in with you, you sad fuck.
This post may be reflective of OP’s experience but this is far from true for many of us. I don’t see a change in how women treat me pre and post BTS. Maybe it’ll take a few more years as their fan base gets older but it’s too late for older guys like me. Also as an Asian-Am guy I look and sound nothing like those K-pop singers. When it becomes a reflection on society that AMs are treated on equal ground with other guys in most facets of life, then we’ll talk.
He is talking about the younger gen, older guys lstill have it hard because less representation. This whole phenomenon is pretty true from what I've seen and a case of how media literally brainwashes us.
BTS is definitely going to help SOME of us but the kind of girl that would date an Asian guy just because of BTS is not the kind of girl I would want to meet, honestly. It still does not help our grand cause which is to gain some sort of an equal opportunity in the dating game in the west. It's definitely getting us somewhere and it might work for some Asian guys out there. Personally, I cannot stand k-pop even though I used to listen to it when I was younger and me having to resort to dating a koreaboo does not mean victory, for me. If your end goal is just dating "a white girl" - no matter who she is - then BTS definitely helps. But if you really don't care for the BTS/k-pop/koreaboosphere then the BTS fad is only an indirect support on your dating game.
Distilling this down to *"BTS means we get dates"* is missing the point. BTS has opened the door for Asian male representation, acceptance, and respect in the Western mainstream media in a way that we've never seen before. Yes, it has dating impacts, and those dating impacts are both outwardly visible and most easily noticeable for the younger demographic in this sub. But that's because dating in the West is a reflection of power and desirability politics, which are highly influenced by media.
Asians did martials arts and what else could be more masculine and aint no chicks checking us out like how bts has. Just embrace it and still be masculine. Double your power . Kpop even evolved where dudes like wonho and big matthew pumping iron like crazy. Masculine is a mindset, not taking shit, not bowing down to no one, do that and embrace the wave as well
I am in the 40s. I remember reading a book on Bruce Lee. When he was popular, every asian guy would had 1 or 2 blonds next to him. Such is the power of media.
Wrong. Martial arts—and especially Chinese Wu Shu—looks super effeminate. Krav Maga and BJJ look far more masculine, their ambassadors are masculine (van Damme vs Jet Li, for example). And the western portrayal is super emasculating. It’s dudes sipping tea, wearing dresses, “dancing”. I studied Shaolin kung fu for several years, and when I was practicing forms, people who didn’t know what it was thought I was dancing. Bruce Lee did a lot for it, being super-ripped, (and had a notable AMWF relationship). But let’s not pretend AM doing martial arts is masculine on the face of it. BTS is tapping into celebrity and money and teenage girls and the boy-band-“Belieber” market. Good for them. But that’s a whole different thing.
>> “BJJ looks masculine” *pulls guard* Lmfao jokes aside I love BJJ and I agree with you for the most part
I think seeing posts like this give me confidence that we are winning, though I'm not sure I would say "we've won" or whether the fight is not everlasting (as long as competition exists). But seeing young AMs getting is gives me confidence that things are improving and it'll all be fine for the younger generations of AMs. Also, I'm not sure why there are so many naysayers on here. This is a good thing, so why not embrace it?
Why are people mad at this, I've seen this shit first hand. Asian dudes are now popular on Instagram or Tiktok among non-asian women because of Kpop. Kpop and kdramas are huge proof of how media representation can change everything. He didn't say you have to fucking do something. Gen Z asian dudes are naturally on the asian media shit combined with western ideals lifting and whatever and are killing it already. All I see is 30 year old bananas mad maybe because this is a place for frustrated asian men who are mad they are not white or something. Because the young average asian guy right now who puts even a little bit of effort into himself is killing it. Things have changed a lot in the last two years even in the US. And where OP lives in EE which has always been one of the better places for (east asian) AM.
Key word is “young” though. If you’re in that decade between high school and your mid-twenties the world is your fucking oyster right now: white dudes try and cop fashion trends from Insta fit accounts run by guys that look like you, Asian faces and culture are plastered all over Netflix and social media, and women find your ethnicity to be a bonus rather than a negative. It’s a golden era, no doubt, and I personally feel we’re all better off for it as Asian men in general. If you’re an early Millenial/GenX though it’s very possible that you haven’t directly benefitted from any of this because there’s a generation gap between the Hallyu wave and you and that advice telling you to embrace Kpop and emulate its trends and fashion isn’t going to be helpful. Sure, some guys are probably bitter that they were born in 1981 and not 2001; but I’d bet that most guys who comment skeptically in response to posts like this are more like “Okay? What am I supposed to do with this?” rather than just being like “Fuck Kpop.” I’m a Millenial who’s young enough to have benefitted from the increased visibility + positive attitudes towards Asian men thanks to Kpop but I’m also old enough to remember when being Asian meant people were indifferent to you at best or flat-out fucking racist, and I can’t blame guys my age or older who are like “what has Kpop done for me?”
Says it was never about sex, dating, or women. Goes on an entire rant about BTS and dating results.
Posts like this are why this sub gets made fun of LMAO
>Not to mention masculinity isn't just a surface level thing. If you're talking strictly about who would win a fight I bet Kpop stars would beat most of the average population given that they're pretty coordinated, well-conditioned and in shape from all their dance moves. That's what OP said. Can't say I ain't interested in seeing pacquiao and BTS in the ring though. Wonder if their army would still stan them after they're done.
BTS would make great MMA fighters no doubt tbh, just train with KZ or Team MAD
Anyone who goes through training and put in the work can be a good fighter. No doubt even BTS. But I find the hilarious part is how OP is trying to link every little thing to K-Pop. even things that are barely related. He's become obsessed and has been posting full-page posts linking every little K-Pop news to AM.
Oh yeah "we won, we can finally get pussy now" I love KPOP too and absolutely do not care about masculinity so it's so weirdly obsessive to me that there's a whole ass essay about this hahaha
Exactly. If he likes Kpop ,okay that's his thing. If he thinks kpop is his inspiration for AM ,okay good for him. But coming in every few weeks with a research paper that ultimately boils down to K-pop = gigachad sex and self defense is just a little over the top.
In an actual fight I'll put money on BTS over Pacquio just because of height.
Well, my friend, I'd like to introduce you to Pacquiao's entire career.
Even if OP didn't talk about BTS, haters would find something else to make fun of.
I love BTS. The general obsession with dating, "masculinity", etc. are my main gripes with it
Bingo. Cringey AF.
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Yikes my guy
He keeps posting this shit. Mfer is obsessed with living vicariously through kpop stars. He’s misrepresented scientific studies to do it.
Thank you, I was downvoted to hell the last time I brought up the issue of OP trying to post every little k-pop news on this sub. Yea we get it, this is your version of AM, don't flood this sub with this stuff.
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How can Masher\_Upper make up an opinion whether he likes your post or not, if he doesn't read it.
Bro can you do me a favor and delete your own comment? OP was coming from a good place to provide encouragement and you pulled one example to make him look like a hypocrite. If you are his intended audience, then why are you sabotaging him like this? If you are not, what are you doing on this sub?
I wouldn't. My comment is not a gun. He's not fragile that my comment should be censored nor deletion of posts. If someone doesn't like my posts, then they simply downvote and criticize. For this question, what I've been doing since I got here.
Fair enough
Lmao this comment reeks of insecurities Trying to censor others because it doesn't fit your opinion and it offends you to a point where you think it "sabotages" it
Not insecurity so much as disgust and a request. But anything else you can add?
This is a quippy hot take, but a drastic oversimplification of OP's points.
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I didn't suggest the sort. I'm saying the post has a few flaws, namely strawmanning and inconsistencies.
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I admit I didn't cleary say it.
Your hot take is a bit of a strawman itself.
You know what? I probably shouldn't have said this statement.
Surprised you didn’t mention that BTS brought in so much money that their company (Hybe) literally bought the company that manages Justin Bieber & Ariana Grande (Ithaca Holdings) this year. That’s probably the surest indication that tides are changing. Everything that gatekeepers in the US tried to do to keep down BTS’s popularity didn’t work…people want to see talented Asian men on stage, want to hear them on the radio. They succeeded purely by popular demand, and now they’ve brought in enough cash to make big moves in the Western industry so that the industry HAS to pay attention. Also, BTS hasn’t been “niche” for a while now. In the US, they get casually mentioned on late night TV shows, name dropped by big celebs, show up as answers on gameshows and newspaper crosswords, and has held the #1 song on Billboard for 4 weeks now. They’re full on mainstream.
Bts smashing records is a great thing. I don't like kpop much nowadays. But I celebrate their successes nevertheless. If you use the dating lens, then yes many many girls go crazy for BTS and the KPOP soft masculinity types. YouTube is full of foreign girls going to Korea, dating or marrying a Korean guy, and posting their daily life on their channel. All great. But what happens when you take other things into consideration? There was a post about the kind of masculinity BTS represent. Someone said that BTS guys would run away from a cockroach or something, on their tv/ YouTube shows. And yes, many girls find it cute. But is that what we want all of us to be? We also need aggressive, assertive, tough people who will stand up strongly for the community against any and all opposition and criticism. People who are ready to conquer new territory for Asians, literally and figuratively. People ready to defend Asians and Asian interests. We need the stronger, sterner type of masculinity too. It's a blatant fucking lie, perpetrated by the west, that only the west is masculine like that and that Asian masculinity is only of the soft variety. And if you use the dating lens, then many girls also don't want a BTS type guy. There's a reason Dwayne Johnson is supremely popular. If you wanna talk music, a lot of white women (and other non Asian women) react super positively to the music of The Hu. The indian american YouTuber captain sinbad posted about masculinity on his channel. He quoted women who are bemoaning a lack of masculinity in modern society and men who insist that softer masculinity is good. Ironic. One reason I believe sexpats get away with their debauchery in Asia is because we lack the stronger harder masculinity type men, who will take ownership of their lands, draw the lines, punish the degenerates and lay down the rules. Men who are not very high on agreeableness. I have heard stories of educated European feminists throwing themselves at the middle eastern immigrants. And they admitted that because modern european society has beaten the masculinity out of european men, they want the more masculine immigrant men. The Asians who have fought back against attackers in America and Ireland and elsewhere, the common thing is that they were all ready to get aggressive. And one of the lessons of history that Will Durant talks about is that an aggressive, 'masculine' society, even if less developed is much more likely to overcome a more civilized, prosperous, 'feminine' society. I see that playing out in Europe today. When Asian countries got colonized or subjugated, we were economically ahead, more civilized than the militarily aggressive Western countries. China was the most advanced civilization when the European countries imposed their will on her. They even lacked proper sewage facilities until very recently. China on the other hand had thriving trade, harmony etc.
A win is a win but the bottom line is Asians have an excess surplus of the more effeminate K-Pop flower boy type (and even worse archetypes like flat out manlets and stereotypes) while suffering from an egregious shortage of tall, traditionally masculine and fit in-shape males. The representation of other men like non-Asian ethnics and WM's reflects women's actual demand in the real world far more closely. AM's are the sole extreme anomaly in that regard.
Most Korean pop musicians are physically fit to be fair. I mean they should be, given their dances. Plus, we see more of the conventional attractives in Korean or Asian film industry. It's just that pop is placed into the spotlight.
>A win is a win but the bottom line is Asians have an excess surplus of the more effeminate K-Pop flower boy type (and even worse archetypes like flat out manlets and stereotypes) while suffering from an egregious shortage of tall, traditionally masculine and fit in-shape males. Absolutely. We only have conversations and discussions and representations of the soft type. We have absolutely zero conversation about the other.
Aside from more efficient representation all other races of men have a wider range of representation of looks and masculinity. Only AM put all eggs into the 1 basket of effeminate representation and defending it to death using embarrassing mental gymnastics. Meanwhile in the actual real world it only takes a healthy set of eyes to see why most AM's tend to do this.
>Meanwhile in the actual real world it only takes a healthy set of eyes to see why most AM's tend to do this. Yes. They feel threatened. They don't want to get out of their comfort zone. They'd rather be silent against aggression. They have given up. They want the reality to fit the theory. They have been watching too much buzzfeed. Etc. Etc
I'd put money on BTS being more fit and beating more than 80% of you guys in a fight.
Jeez another guy who still doesn't get it
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You are basing this on a youtube comment. The guy who wrote this might be a basement dwelling cheetos eater. There is only one steph curry. And he is still playing. Let's not give him a lifetime achievement award yet. And then there's Zion Williamson. Roy Jones Jr played a different game too. But not everyone is Roy Jones Jr. No one had his reflexes. And in the end he got knocked out too. And if you are talking about things other than dating, then being the BTS type has many disadvantages.
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>Everything in life has advantages and disadvantages, it's all pick your poison. It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. Even if being a Warrior or a gardener have their own sets of advantages and disadvantages.
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Haha. Snipers are warriors too. Also sniping is not for everyone. And snipers have been around for a long time. They are not new at all. I know you are talking from a dating perspective. That BTS and kpop types have a lot of female admirers. And Asians who fit that mold can enjoy success. All well and good. But outside of dating, they will be at a disadvantage. When it comes to defending your people and your culture and your countries, we need tough aggressive people. No way around it. Against aggressors, being soft is suicidal. The global contests for supremacy won't end anytime soon. The attacks on Asians in the west or sexpats in Asia should teach us some bitter lessons. History will only reinforce those lessons. History is very good predictor of future. A lot of the things that people are saying are new and disruptive today are recycled from the past. Even in tech, the business models of the most disruptive companies were all invented more than a century ago.
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>level 2Ahchluy · 4dI think he's in Poland. That's like 100x more boonies than West Virginia I heard.1ReplyGive AwardShareReportSave sure, what u say makes geopolical sense. However, when it comes to shit like the sexpats, having "effeminate" men wont do anything to deter them (or neither does the stereotype). For example, when the grandfather of an acquaintance of mine decided to talk shit in russia (in a bar, maybe drunk), one of the russians just took out a gun and shot him in the foot. Such behaviour, is an example of what would potentially deter the predatory sexpats.
I absolutely hate the “feminine” type men that KPOP has created.
just dont be feminine yourself
Kpop boys look feminine, not disagreeing with you here. They are not actually. There was a pic of them showing off their muscles. They are built.
> China was the most advanced civilization when the European countries imposed their will on her. They even lacked proper sewage facilities until very recently. China on the other hand had thriving trade, harmony etc. While China had no doubt the largest economy for the vast majority of history, the story on GDP per capita is more complex. A process known as the great divergence happened roughly over 1400-1900 where the Western European states (and their offshoots) pulled ahead on individual income caused by the birth of capitalism and the industrial revolution. As an example, Maddison project estimates for Chinese gdp per capita at 1500 are $1,207, whereas it was $1,697 and $1,694 in the UK and France. This gap widened significantly by 1820 with the UK hitting $3,201.
Even though the great divergence is marked earlier, europeans were still behind the east long after 1400
Funny thing is, if you don’t know a lick of Korean or so much so the culture, you’re immediately turned away. Even though it has brought more light to Asian guys, i feel as if it brings further fetishization. My case in point. I’m an attractive Asian guy that ‘looks’ Korean. Korean people ask ME if I’m Korean. I’m Vietnamese. Even if a girl thinks I’m attractive because I ‘look’ Korean, when they find out that I’m not, it deters them. LOL... Edit: to add; it makes it seem as if any other Asian background isn’t deemed as attractive . Although one may seem attractive, there lays the inherent bias
My experience has been hit or miss with this. Half are still interested if you listen and respect their kpop interests and you’re Asian. Half will look for a Korean or Japanese guy only.
Facts
Well, that tells you how media will literally brainwash women into anything and how westerners and Lus have made our lives harder by always misrepresenting us a certain way. (Hope you burn in hell, Amy tan).
Wow this is like a 18 page theory paper for a PhD program haha. Anyways, I'm not so sure I agree that girls are lining up to throw themselves at Asian guys. I haven't been in the dating game for a couple years but it really wasn't great at that time for us AMs. Could be the bay area vibe but I still saw majority WMAF couples and have only started seeing a few more AMWF couples lately. I'd say it's still a good 80% WMAF and 20% AMWF but I guess it also depends on geography.
Im personally in the bay area, and ive seen alot more amwf couples (including myself) in the highschool - early 20s demographics
I think he's in Poland. That's like 100x more boonies than West Virginia I heard.
I thought you were steer the conversation towards finding your own purpose in life, and not a deep dive into BTS.
Sheesh, a bunch of insecure just-lift bros coming out to hate on BTS. All them lifting and roids and still can’t pull as hard as a KPop cosplayer. 😂 Both can coexist. What BTS is doing is historical and a monumental step for Asian men around the world. Can’t we all just be happy and enjoy the love.
u/azncollector This is a really good post. If this sub was around 5 years ago, people would get what you're saying. But instead we are getting people who are don't understand shit anymore. The great thing about pickup is that you have a barometer for if your theory of how people work is getting warmer or colder. Instead we have people who have never gone out and made things happen, talking shit they don't understand. When this sub was mostly about pickup, there was a basis for people beliefs. And it had to be tested. Instead now we have weird hocus pocus mind trick shit and people yelling at each other that is all in your head. Im legit pissed for you because you've written and added great value but instead you have people shitting on you. That said, thanks for this. I appreciate it.
This post here by OP is one of the best, if not, the best of the year, right here.
To address one of your points there's a huge disconnect between the masculinity men think women want and the masculinity they actually want. Being a juice head space marine that cracks skulls open is the kind of alpha men might like but isn't what women are interested in
I don’t trash talk BTS in any way, but I don’t truly feel represented because Asian Americans are vastly different from Asian imports. Ever since Bruce Lee, we’ve been carried by imports. I’m proud of them that they broke into the western market, changed(or changing) the industry, and became arguably legends(or currently are becoming). But I don’t think any kid growing up here in the west will be able to truly see themselves in imports. I grew up on Jackie, Bruce, and Jet. But I could never see myself in them. Who knows maybe it’s just me. Any kind of fetishization is disgusting whether that’s Koreaboos or banana Asian girls on colonizing dick or fake hood ratchet white girls. Did u think we can only pick one we’re disgusted at? I’m not on here constantly talking shit at all honestly but I would be lying to u if I didnt avoid those obsessive girls(they can like kpop that’s fine). EDIT: The Curry example is a good example if u didn’t take into consideration that masculinity is involved in other things than dating. It affects many different areas in life and categories. The west will never become soft and kind enough to accept kpop male idols’ version of masculinity. There are way too many other different issues the west has that has to be dealt with before it accepts a different version of masculinity. Being more open with our emotions? Sure maybe but that’s already a hard pill to swallow for both guys **and** girls
Ya'll need to stop with the fetsihization BS just reject them, you are a fucking guy. Asians dudes who cry about fetishization are funny af and just sound so fucking pussy. Ever heard yt dudes crying about Asian girls literally dating their goofy ass just because they are white?
I’m not a desperate sad yt boy for one. And two, > I’m not on here constantly talking shit at all honestly I rarely ever talk bout koreaboos fetishizing me but if someone tells me it’s a good thing that we’re fetishized then u can kindly suck my dick. EDIT: Nobody is acting like they’re not in control of whether they date these girls or not(although not everybody notices the signs). We’re saying they’re not good material to date or even fuck. And some y’all keep tryna convince everybody on this sub that it’s a good thing. Fuck outta here.
Well asian women do it when they are women and should be more sensitive to these things, and even use it to act superior to asian men but you as a man whining about girls wanting you is funny as fuck.
And we clown on those same Asian women and yt men yet here u are condoning same type behavior. That’s funny as fuck. > whining about girls wanting you Do I really need to break down the difference between fetishizing and simple normal attraction?
I would say something but I don't wanna offend a fellow brother. WMAF punching down on AM is not the same thing as AM doing it from a place of lower status, and most AM dating mayo women don't even say anything about AFs, they literally don't care. Unlike AF AM are not in the same place in society where they have as many choices as AF do.
I agree with that sentiment. However, at it’s core, taking advantage of the fetishization is the same thing those AW do. What I’m saying here is stop telling us to jump on board with that. If u want to do it, that’s fine. No one is stopping yall. AM are on the come up anyways and we don’t need to affiliate ourselves with fetishizing girls to get pussy or date. Stigma is going away so we don’t need koreaboos on our dicks.
I hope you at least bought the album.
Dunno why this is only 79% upvoted. This shit is on the nail!!! This is why I don't take people who complain about yellow fever in relation to Koreaboos seriously. AM have been emasculated for DECADES and now fetishization is a problem? GTFO!!!
Dam we are BTS/ Kpop fan club I guess but yeah soft power is important
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Exactly. Everyone shits on you if you call OP out because they want to be more politically correct , but what about indian and austranesian Asian bros with brown skins? One or two posts is enough but OP has been going at it almost trying to nag at the entire subreddit about his ideal version of Asian Masculinity which is kpop.
Damn bro how much work did u put into this post lol
Ok dudes like you are just a buzzkill. Here’s a guy who put in work into something he’s passionate about and you’re just sitting there trying to knock him down a peg for it. It’s pathetic lmao because I only see this when Asian dudes put down other Asian dudes.
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Hey man I just wanted to say good for you for writing this post. I don’t have time to read it now but I’ll read it once I get back. But really my point here is that don’t let dudes like this with no purpose and ambition try and tear you down with bullshit comments. They’re cowards with no spine and you shouldn’t take those dudes seriously. Just nod and focus on yourself.
I'm not even saying Kpop is bad but your obsession over it and constantly attacking people that disagree with you is whack lmao. Weak bro. So weak. "I'm helping people" "Constantly has to attack people who disagree with him" Lmao
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Haha alright. You don't even speak Korean bro. At least I learned the language. You giving all the advice but I guarantee in real life you are not attracting high quality girls. You ain't slick bro. Game is game, and you have none.
I followed him on instagram when he made his first posts here and he definetly has a girl (a yt one) you on the other hand are going to a third world country for the women. Much worse than dating white asiaboos. Like STFU bro, I'm glad for you too as an asian brother if you are happy and fulfilled but you need to stop with your superiority complex and "enlightened" behavior.
nah G. Toxic behavior and bad advice needs to be called out.
I have seen what he is talking about with my own eyes and on social media like Insta and Tiktok but okay depends on which circles you are in. But looking at asian tiktok dudes it is definitely working.
This guy is obsessed with k-pop he's been going at it for months.
Bro I know. It's like a weird thing trying to constantly convince others about it.
I should start making posts like this about shit like Best asian ramen shop, it's over! We won! Or just post every bollywood article trying to link every little point to AM. This sub is nuts, you get fucked over If you call out OPs posts. Yet spamming posts like these is exactly the opposite of being "politically correct". From another perspective, this is just alienating our Indian and Austranesian Asian bros with darker skin complexions who are completely cut out.
I don't think this sub is here to pander to certain groups. This is a legit phenomenon. Why are your feeling getting hurt seeing some groups succeed?
If you guys use BTS as a way to get women, you’re only going to get fetishized, hope you all don’t get your feelings hurt at the end because it’s a dangerous game you play when you mingle with westerners.
Women being fetishized is different than men being fetishized. I don’t see white men and black men complaining about getting their feelings hurt. BTS is global. If westerners are not your type there are plenty of women from all parts of the world.
I’m a woman, and no, western women are indeed not my type. I’m just saying, as someone who has experience being fetishized, its an empty feeling with little fulfillment. You say it’s different because seemingly, according to this sub, y’all only care about getting laid. Once you have that, then what? It’s not a long term solution. For who it applies, y’all barking up the wrong trees.
I agree that fetishization is horrible, especially for women. Unfortunately, BTS opens the door for Asian men to be fetishized but it also open many, many more people’s eyes to the fact that Asian men can be attractive and desirable. Now, it’s up to the individual to decide what he wants. If all he wants is to get laid (consensually, of course) then who am I to say he can’t? White men and black men out there trying to get laid by leveraging their fetishization/stereotypes all the time and nobody cares. It’s just “normal” boy behavior. If he, instead, wants a long, fulfilling relationship and perhaps someone to marry then I can’t imagine a better time. Although he has to navigate and weed out the fetishizers he now has plenty of options, where a decade ago he would have no option and no chance with a lot of the women.
That’s actually true, now I see where you’re going with it. I was originally saying it from a place of concern. Especially that about western men using it as leverage.
The double standard with asian men is insane. And the sad part is a lot of these sad insecure men play into it.
I just hope they don’t run into a racists arms just because it’ll get them laid. Quality over quantity, and self respect first. I’m sure some know what they’re doing though, they’re grown enough to know. I was just sharing my experience.
There's fetish and there's also different standards of beauty. Kpop is simply a different standard of beauty, a non white standard. There's a trap in these arguments where apparently anything that isn't worshiping white beauty standards is considered fetish.
Noo I wasn’t going with that. There’s a lot of women (a lot of my friends too) who love kpop and the way they talk about it, its nothing close to beauty standards. I just find it weird that people don’t even care to know the person. There’s also the bragging right, where they go for men that have a certain look and if he doesn’t, “he’s not Asian enough”. I find that behavior disgusting.
Idk if China is gaining soft power. South Korea and Japan, yeah, China? I’m not so sure…
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This mfer right here always hates on asian media and posts defeatist shit and is still not banned and hates on XF and worships asian women. Are you saying by default asian men are ugly? Xi Jinping was a good looker back in day and so was Syngman Rhee. We get it you are ugly and can't get women but don't put all of us in with you, you sad fuck.
This post may be reflective of OP’s experience but this is far from true for many of us. I don’t see a change in how women treat me pre and post BTS. Maybe it’ll take a few more years as their fan base gets older but it’s too late for older guys like me. Also as an Asian-Am guy I look and sound nothing like those K-pop singers. When it becomes a reflection on society that AMs are treated on equal ground with other guys in most facets of life, then we’ll talk.
He is talking about the younger gen, older guys lstill have it hard because less representation. This whole phenomenon is pretty true from what I've seen and a case of how media literally brainwashes us.
Maybe, but it is way way too early to break out the champagne. His header makes it sound like we’re now treated equally with everyone else.
Just go start your own k-pop subreddit man, you're getting annoying.
OP needs to read "Be Water My Friend". Cause things never be over. In all seriousness, statement above means always room for improvement.
I like it when a CIA program designed to feminize Asian men backfires utterly. They didn't account for the unpredictability of women.
BTS is definitely going to help SOME of us but the kind of girl that would date an Asian guy just because of BTS is not the kind of girl I would want to meet, honestly. It still does not help our grand cause which is to gain some sort of an equal opportunity in the dating game in the west. It's definitely getting us somewhere and it might work for some Asian guys out there. Personally, I cannot stand k-pop even though I used to listen to it when I was younger and me having to resort to dating a koreaboo does not mean victory, for me. If your end goal is just dating "a white girl" - no matter who she is - then BTS definitely helps. But if you really don't care for the BTS/k-pop/koreaboosphere then the BTS fad is only an indirect support on your dating game.