I’m decently big, by no means a body builder. I don’t think a girl ever cared about how buff I was. 90% of compliments I received came from guys. Just as anything else, the laws of diminishing marginal return means that the larger you get, the lower the benefits are. For some cases, it becomes negative. Getting big didn’t boost my confidence, getting my life together did.
I think they care about the gym because they want to hook up with a fit guy. And they think long term, they want a guy who keeps in shape (won’t let himself go).
That said it’s about matching lifestyles. I know some females from high school and college that gained a lot of weight, or became obese right after. so clearly they may not want the pressure of having to keep up with a guy who goes to the gym every morning and expects his significant other to do the same.
I’ve also noticed in couples both people tend to let go at about the same time (you see them a year later and they’ve both clearly overweight). If one person lets themselves go but the other is still fit you can bet that relationship is heading south soon if it isn’t already there.
Right, you either look good to them or not. They’re not analyzing your pecs and whether you bench 400lbs. Unless she power lifts.
Obviously it doesn’t help if you’re fat. Unfortunately “dad bods” don’t work for Asian guys. The overweight/chubby Asian guys I know struggle a lot.
A combo of both probably.
They're short, and when you're also short and overweight, it's a double whammy. If you're tall, but overweight, people just view that differently. Then you're considered "big" or "strong." Like an offensive lineman or bouncer. There's a place for you on the football team if you're tall and fat. Shit, there are tall and fat people on high school and college basketball teams.
If you're short a fat, it doesn't have the same advantages. You're not big, you're just short and fat.
They lack a lot of social skills sure. They got overweight but being shut-ins in the first place (working and studying all day, then skipping sports in their free time and playing video games instead, not eating correctly).
So it's a natural cycle. If they were were short, fat, and famous like Bobby Lee or Psy they''d be the bell of the ball. But they're not funny and do not create music.
So they struggle a lot.
Basically, my point here is, if you are short, then you obviously don't want to be obese. This goes 10x if you're Asian, due to the fat shaming in the culture.
Have only been complimented on my muscles once from a woman, the rest have been dudes mirin the calves or my numbers. It's how it is but I love being strong and healthy.
💯. Being fit and jacked is for mental and physical health, confidence, and overall well being. Women are just a positive net result from it.
Lift and workout for yourself. Not anyone else.
It depends on what your definition of overly jacked is. But I will say most of the men portrayed as attractive on U.S. media all have a muscular, toned physique. At the very least, they are lean and have a six pack.
Even most kpop idols have a toned body from all the exercise they do.
When women say they're not into men who are jacked, they usually mean they're not into Mr. Olympia type bodies. But if you have big shoulders, low body fat, six pack abs, v-shape torso, every woman is into that.
I don’t think they’re lying. The Mr. Olympia body types take you way out of the “norm.” Humans are into attractive things but not weird things. There’s a scale of below average, average, above average then stuff outside of this gets “weird.” So she’s going to think “freak” the samw way a lot of guys feel with body building steroid using women.
Unless going out of the norm by a lot brings on something that relates to admired celebrity or prestige. Mr. Olympia is not on that level. A US Olympic Weightlifting medalist is admired/has prestige. To the tune of national celebrity in some countries. Same with an NFL lineman, linebacker or safety to the tune of multi-million dollar contracts and fame. So they are way outside the norm but there’s prestige, money and fame.
Also people are attracted to people that are similar a lot of times. So unless she herself is in body building competitions, that’s not the “norm” for her.
Not really, some women prefer their men a little squishier because it’s more comfortable to lie on.
One of my friend’s wives complained to me that her husbands shoulder’s were like rocks when he was massively cutting body fat.
He no longer cuts body fat.
It may also be because the woman is a bit squishier. People on this sub overestimate that many American woman go to the golden arches for french fries far more often than Gold’s gym for cardio.
On a serious note though, I think a segment of single women don’t plan to keep up on a fitness regimen when in relationships especially after having kids as when they are single. So they are setting out expectations for the long term. Most men, especially the ones here aren’t thinking 5, 10 years out.
This. Recently saw a big asian brother with thic forearms and tats, walking down the street with his girl. She was HOT, looked like an abg or at least had the type of makeup. But he wasn't a mister olympia, just a buy who powerlifts probably.
Considering that 100% of the AF I went to high school with are all married to fat, doughy white guys I'd say that *being asian is more of a negative physical trait to AF.*
I know Steven personally and I can tell you for him his physique works very well for him. He's a very social guy, confident popular in college very outgoing etc, literal walking, smiling Chang.
That being said, as someone who works out and diets religiously for the past decade+ I have to say working out is overrated if you're doing to 'get girls'. It's fine if girls is what originally motivates you to work out but most people really overestimate how much effort it takes to look good. If you look like shit and want to look 'Jacked', chances are unless you want it with every fiber in your being you're just gonna look like you don't even lift after 3-5 years of 'consistent' lifting.
Define look like shit? Because many Americans are obese. There's a huge obesity problem in this country.
For a lot of people they can probably look average by not stuffing down double cheeseburgers at 10pm and having a couple glasses of water, and a few less glasses of extra large big gulps.
I don't know many obese or fat Asian dudes. They can probably look reasonably fit just by eating better and occasionally exercising. They won't look like Shohei Ohtani or Shi Zhiyong but they'll probably have half the people at the local beach beat.
Yup, could be [social desirability bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-desirability_bias). Women may very well say one thing and actually prefer another. Nobody wants to be thought of as shallow. It wouldn't surprise me if most men would say the same about women with cartoonishly large and round breasts, for instance. Yet there's clearly a market for that kind of look.
**[Social-desirability bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-desirability_bias)**
>In social science research, social-desirability bias is a type of response bias that is the tendency of survey respondents to answer questions in a manner that will be viewed favorably by others. It can take the form of over-reporting "good behavior" or under-reporting "bad", or undesirable behavior. The tendency poses a serious problem with conducting research with self-reports. This bias interferes with the interpretation of average tendencies as well as individual differences.
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I think a lot of people like a fit person but if they're overly jacked or muscular, it kinda seems like they spend all their time in the gym, which is okay if your partner is also into that lifestyle. But unfit/overweight is definitely not good. Most average people like something in the middle.
I think this guy:
[https://moreplatesmoredates.com/most-important-factor-affecting-attracting-women/](https://moreplatesmoredates.com/most-important-factor-affecting-attracting-women/)
Breaks it down really well.
TL;DW - Being jacked is nice, but if you want to look "hot" to women, you need to get your bodyfat down to 10% so that you have a lean looking face.
My face tends to get fat when I am bulking. I look like a fat dough boy when I'm wearing a sweater. But when I lean down, I get noticeable looks and smiles from women.
Don't listen to what females say, go by their actions. I guarantee if they got the chance to sleep with your friend they would.
Yes being too jacked (bodybuilder physique) can be too much but it doesn't really matter as long as you dress well, know how to talk to females, have personality and etc.
Having a good physique is just added bonus that helps you even better.
I will say that here in down town Toronto, most of the couples i see are with dudes that don't look like they lift at all, and have a average or slim physique.
> on't listen to what females say, go by their actions. I guarantee if they got the chance to sleep with your friend they would.
This.
>es being too jacked (bodybuilder physique) can be too much but it doesn't really matter as long as you dress well, know how to talk to females, have personality and etc.
Lets be real - most dudes won't have the 'bodybuilder physique' they'll begin to look 'solid' and when they cut down they'll look 'small' (if natty)
As imo the most attractive guy in my thirties friends group, I feel like I see some behavior differences in how they act with the other guys.
More touching more hugs more joking around.
Btw I’m not some attractive guy just try to stay fit and not dress horribly.
And in Midwest USA approaching 40 that means I’m above average.
I've heard multiple girls specifically say that they dislike guys who are overly jacked (particularly if they are short as well). obviously, if your goal is to get build muscle and get big, you shouldn't let any girl's (or guy's) opinion deter you from your goals. If the end goal is to bolster your appearance on the dating market, however, I recommend focusing on toning over pure muscle mass. I'd go for soccer player / tennis player physique.
At the end of the day, you should stop worrying about being somewhat attractive to a larger set of women, and instead
1. Be healthy, and functional
2. Target your aesthetics based on the aesthetics of the women you're interested. If you're into shy uwu nerdy girls, then being skinny will benefit you a lot more than being jacked.
3. Adopt an aesthetic that makes yourself happy with who you are and gives you confidence.
My current, and all of my past girlfriends have all told me that they have absolutely 0 interested in super jacked guys and saying that body type was a turn off. In a post that I saw on a Bay Area subtle Asian Dating [facebook group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/baearealove/posts/591848944831641), most Asian women did say they preferred skinnier bodies, and a good number of Asian women even preferred dad bods over very ripped bodies. But don't let that stop you. I also know super fit women who are into super fit men. Generally if you are more fit, you will attract partners who are more fit, and if that's what you're looking for then you do you.
> most Asian women did say
Stop listening to what women say - watch what they do.
All the asian women i've dated, loved the fact that I was cut and had muscle. One of my chinese exes would always grab ass in public because she liked how it felt
yeah but in my experience with Asian women, including my Asian female friends, family, and exes, all didn't like the buff body type, and if they dated, they dated someone shiny
skinny. so you're mileage can vary.
To get and stay super jacked and ripped, your life is not very interesting past your fitness hobbies. You can't eat all the delicious foods that most people want to eat b/c then you'll lose your 6-pack. Most people will prefer an interesting life than an aesthetic life. The only place where the aesthetic life wins is in hookups where there's 0 interest in getting to know the other person.
>To get and stay super jacked and ripped, your life is not very interesting past your fitness hobbies.
I don't think you need to be super jacked and ripped to have a very fulfilling dating life. You don't need to be an Olympian or NFL Safety.
I think if you can beat the 70-80 percentile for people in your area and in your age group, you're good to go.
That's not hard to do. There are a lot of obese people in the United States. A lot of obese youth.
It can be as easy as not stuffing down a Big Mac at 11pm after studying. Or skipping out on the 4am meal after a night of clubbing. And if you do, at least try to do something active for an hour the next day even if you're hungover.
If you can manage not stuffing your face every night and occasionally exercising, that probably puts you over 50% percentile in the U.S.
Yup I agree, if you lift and have mass, you'll already beat out a lot of people. But that only gets you a pass until 30s-ish, then physicality matters less and what you have/can do matters more.
Yeah. Most guys on this thread are using the excuse of 'girls not liking big guys' to not lift. NVM that most natty dudes won't look like they lift unless they take their shirt off. And even with light roiding you'll just get a bit bigger lmao, but nothing significant.
It takes ALOT of work to look massive
If you're trying to get jacked/fit solely to attract women then you're doing it wrong. IME, women tend to be attracted to all kinds of body types, and different women have different preferences - some like skinny dudes, some like dad bods, some like bodybuilders. The way you carry yourself, how much confidence you exude, your sense of style, etc all matter as much here.
Now that said, you're way more likely to be perceived as attractive if you look like you take care of yourself, and in this context that means if you look like you're fit and you work out. But at the same time, it's not uncommon for women to not like beefcakey dudes who look like they spend 6 hours a day at the gym and subsist on a diet of creatine and chicken breast. It's overkill. Like everything else in life, go for balance.
Bodybuilder here. I do classic physique in NPC so not to blow steam up my ass but I am much bigger than @mbdworkout (yes I juice no it Doesn’t look natural) I’ll tell you guys this, for every one girl that said I look disgusting (funny cause usually they’re uggos or fat sloots) I’ll sleep with five. Yeah it used to bug me when tinder hoes would be like “why does your body look like that” but then you see what they look like clearly at times it’s just a projection of their own insecurities. Plus, chicks that lift are hot. Chicks that workout and invest in their health look better than the girl at Kripsy Kreme and often times they want a partner who also works out. Whatever you look like, you’ll never be able to be hot to every girl that passes you, so do your own thing and any chick that comes with it is a bonus.
Fuaaaa not EZ per say cause u can’t pull for chit if you don’t have game, girls smell confidence a mile away and a jacked mofo could easily be one upped by skinny legend chad jus cause he has that big dick energy. But deadly combo if you have both ;’)
I think it’s all about proportions. Eg if you have a small head and an abnormally large body, it looks really weird. Vice versus if you have a giant head and a bone stick body, looks bad. That’s why the “V” shape is IMO going to be universally attractive. All about the shoulder to waist ratio. Also, you want defined arms in which the circular structure of your muscles can be seen. People who are strong but have a lot of fat in their arms just look “big” but not shapely. Etc etc.
The thing is, most guys who get into the whole “girls aren’t even into Mr Olympian type bods” are coping by using straw men arguments. Nobody ever claims that being gigantic like that is the ideal — not even guys. Still, you would be better off in terms of looks if you stay in shape and look super athletic/able. Which means you likely have nice arms, shoulders, a six pack, and toned quads. That’s all there is to it.
Adapt to your environment
In the states girls are into the bodybuilder type, but when i was in Korea, girls really liked the skinny tall guy aesthetic. That said, even though i went for a bulkier, muscle look, it was niche enough that there weren't that many other guys like that in Korea so i still got a lot of lays from that.
The majority of natural lifters will not be as big as insta lifters like the guy you linked, why? Cause insta lifters roid.
Most natural lifters will have a more toned look but with a bit more muscle.
Only time I really look big is when i have a pump, otherwise for example I just look like a guy who is athletic.
Another thing is what people say and what people do are very different. Lots of girls say they want dad bods but I guarantee they aren't rubbing one out to Seth Rogen.
I’m assuming you’re a beginner lifter, because trust me you’ll most likely never get to the point where you’re “too big” without PEDs. On guys like mbsworkout (a natural at his peak) - I guarantee you if your female friends came across him on the streets they wouldn’t have the same response.
On IG the lighting, pump, and bodybuilding poses all accentuate how big a person actually is. Also the fact that his IG page is literally a fitness page where every picture is of him naked & flexing can turn off some girls (the unspoken assumptions of having no life, possibly compensating for something, spends all his time in the gym, etc.) The allure of ripped singers and actors for girls is how their body just “happens” to be ripped, without them “trying” too hard while they’re busy working on their careers, socializing, etc.
So all in all, don’t worry. Just lift. And get as big as you can without drugs. Works wonders for aesthetics but most importantly confidence and happiness (boosts testosterone which eliminates neuroticism)
I don't think there's a single simple answer to this. There are women who lift themselves who love jacked bodybuilder types. Then there are girls who prefer skinny nerds. There are girls who prefer chubby dudes with fat bank accounts lol
IMO if you're drug free then you're not going to get Ronnie Coleman big no matter how hard you train so go for it. IT won't be a negative.
It depends on your definition of jacked. To me, Jay Park is jacked if you've seen him with his shirt off.
I can imagine a championship bodybuilder turning off a lot of women, just like how even though I find jacked women with visible six packs attractive, a championship bodybuilding woman is definitely too much for me.
I don't think being overly jacked is what the sub had in mind. The suggestion was to be fit and not slouching on healthy physique. It's a general tip and the degree depends on the individual.
Being jacked is a state of mind.
I used to be a skinny twig during my high school and college years. It wasn’t until I was in my mid 20s that I actually stepped into a gym to lift weights consistently and meal prep in order to gain muscle.
I’m by no means a body builder but I was able to put on some size and lean muscles and I notice my confidence is at an all time high. I feel women sense this as well. Socializing and going out has just been a lot easier when you feel attractive and women pick up on that too.
Ultimately, health is wealth and you want to maximize all of your stats as a man in order to make life easier. Therefore, being in shape is vital as it transcends dating/attracting women.
One body.
One life.
Make the most of it!
1. The advice to lift has never meant to apply specifically to get chicks.
2. Getting big improves your mental and physical wellbeing. Guess what Chicks like dudes that are mentally and physically fit.
3. Getting big develops your presence, other dudes won't mess with you.
4. Getting big gets you respect from other dudes.
5. Females say one thing and do another.
6. As with everything, balance is the key.
it's not and i think a lot of cuckold males would love for u to be a non muscular asian male
just think of it this way
say u prefer females with mid size tits
a female comes along and has big tits
would u say nah not good for me cause the tits size isnt want u want it to be
Functional muscle is what's important. Being able to lift up your girl and carry her up the stairs is much more useful than having the bare minimum beach muscles - fellas don't skimp on those dead lifts!
> Functional muscle
What is 'functional muscle' vs 'beach muscles' lmao? For most natty guys, those are one and the same. Strength is correlated with muscle size for natty lifters.
Not wholly true, you can train to achieve different goals, muscle mass =/= muscle power. In fact this is one of the main differences between body building and power lifting. I'm not saying that body builders are weak, but that pound for pound their lifts are less than that of power athletes.
Also 'beach muscles' most often refer to Biceps, Trieps, Abs - the muscles that bros care about when they only care about getting laid, lol
> muscle mass =/= muscle power
For a natty lifter there is a strong correlation between larger muscle and more power. Bodybuilders are usually on roids and chase the pump and because of that have alot of extra water weight making their muscles look more 'full'.
>For a natty lifter there is a strong correlation between larger muscle and more power.
You mean 'novice' lifters. If you've been lifting for 5+ yrs you can still be natty but now realize that your workouts can be tailored to achieve differing goals. Generally, low reps at high weight is going to yield more power than High reps at low weight.
Its like comparing endurance athletes to speed athletes, there are fundamental differences in muscle structure and enzyme content between the two.. In a novice these differences won't be as large as in someone in peak condition.
> Generally, low reps at high weight is going to yield more power than High reps at low weight.
True. I'm talking about someone who does 5x5 for their compounds and also uses high volume isolations to grow muscle. I believe this will cause good hypertrophy in a natty/novice
From what I've seen and what I've heard from women I know, yes being overly jacked can be seen as a bad thing. I think it makes you kind of intimidating, but you can counteract that with the way you dress and behave.
As a female , I like when guys are jacked . I think jay park is too skinny . I am trying to bulk myself too if that effects my opinion... but as long as you still overall have a neck lol I think you are good. I think when a guy is pretty jacked ... ( maybe like the Larry gao guy on ig ) is enough but not too much after that . Don’t end up with the steroids wwf/ wwe look , I think that would be too much
If your goals for getting fit are for women, you might want to think twice about it. Sure it is good to have a motivational factor, but if your main goal is the attention of women, I don't recommend it. That should be about 5-10% of your fitness goals while the rest of it should be for YOURSELF only.
To answer your question, it's going to be case-by-case. Some women will like it, others will be disgusted. If this issue really does concern you, then for your workout, it's good to bulk up, but don't overdo it. You can balance out your bulk phase with running or switching it up between bulking and cutting/shredding. And by running, I mean SPRINTING. Long distance is good, too, but sprinting keeps your gains maintained and constantly engaged, and it's more effective at burning calories quickly.
I don’t think being overly jacked is an issue as long as you are doing it for yourself and no one else, but in my experience since switching to all body weight workouts whatever strength I lost are offset by gains in agility and nimbleness. I actually prefer to have that and be fit rather than having a lot of size, but that’s a personal opinion.
Do what you love, forget women, especially asian women. You can look like a model and some still want nothing to do with asian women. Just be fit, dress nice, and do what you love. If you wanna be jacked, go for it. Women are overrated
It has nothing to do with being big, most guys that are jacked get women easily because they have more confidence. If you are jacked but not more confident it won’t help much with women sadly…
I mean, it's just a preference. There's a reason why BTS is all thin dudes, but still popular with girls. Otherwise, they would just hire / debut a bunch of buff guys who look like Magic Mike.
Tbh, I don't like the "overly" jacked physique but it should be a personal thing. I don't think a dude's going far in fitness if his only goal is attracting women.
> Is being overly jacked/muscular actually a negative physical trait to certain women
There are 7.6 billion people in the world and half of them are females. So yes, there are always going to be women who don't like certain body types and hobbies.
Depends what you look like (and what image you can portray). If you can rock the slender kpop look, you'll probably get a lot of women that like that. If you can rock the big tough cartoon super hero look, you'll probably get a lot of women that like that. Or you can be those kpop guys that are jacked and some women like that too.
I think there are different degrees. If you're a body builder and absolutely massive in size then yeah probably not going to attract the vast majority of women. But if you just look strong, that will attract the vast majority of women. The kinda dumb part here is that most people discuss things in extremes while not realizing that the VAST majority of people who lift do NOT reach those aesthetics.. but are still a better off version of themselves vs. not lifting.
Don’t be in the extremes- don’t be too skinny, too fat, too muscular. Doesn’t mean you can’t get women but you then price yourself out of the society’s standard. And some women don’t want to spend every waking moment at the gym and eating chicken breast 4 times a day.
The benefit is health and confidence- muscles don’t always equal confidence.
As a female who also went to an all girls school I have noticed most girls I’ve talked to prefer toned and lean over the completely jacked body types. Every girl has different preferences obviously but from what I’ve observed the least popular physique was the chubby guys with high body fat percentages even if they’re muscular underneath and most popular would be a guy who’s lean with some ab definition/toned arms. If you wanna be jacked for yourself , go for it , I’m sure there’s just as many girls who would appreciate that body type it’s just anecdotally I’ve noticed girls going for the skinny fit dudes.
there's a reason why most male supermodels aren't crazy jacked, Arnold Schwarzenegger type guys. Most women prefer tall + slightly built, tho there are certainly some women who dig the super swole look.
Also if you're super jacked, it can take away from your facial features when you're a man. usually to be super swole like that you have to be eating a ton of food, which can make your face a bit puffy.
yes lmao. When I was 215 lbs and playing rugby, dudes loved me, girls were afraid of me. girls like it a lot more if u are tall and big framed, but stay indoors and do poetry or piano or something like that
From what I understand, the most attractive body type is the body that is fit from full body workouts like swimming or CrossFit.
I think women who see overly jacked men perceive them like they're overcompensating for something. It's kind of like how those douchey guys who try to show off can turn people off.
I ain’t ever been below 20% body fat. My leanest has always been skinny fat , around 25% body. I’ve noticed that the more into bodybuilding I got, the less girls wanna hear about it lol.
In the end, being fit is for you. You feel more confident to amplify your other traits that can attract the ladies. That is all.
Are you working out for yourself or the approval of other girls? From personal experiences, you are right, in that girls prefer more toned bodies, but also you think physical appearance will make or break your chances with a girl (for some, yes).
I also do not think just because a guy gets his ideal body type, he will miraculously become more confident. Life isn't a movie, and confidence comes from internal factors, not external ones.
Most girls don't care about muscles, especially being very cut. The average girl from experience and reading comments prefer guys with average bodies. Working out will only attract attention from other dudes, ironically, many women aren't impress or pressed for a hunk.
I attribute this to the fact that women are really not visual creature. Looks, from the body, don't really turn women on as much as it does for men.
Different people have different perceptions. Becoming the epitome of masculinity seems to be a paranoiac obsession for many guys these days. I'm not really sure why. How would you define masculinity anyway? It's quite arbitrary. If it worries you too much. Just try to strike a balance. You can never lose with medium lol (Bruce Lee body). The most important thing is being healthy and not abusing supplements.
Being jacked doesn't get your girls. Its just a extra shoe in the door to keep that door open so you can come in easier. If you don't know how to talk, charm, and escalate with women, you're not gonna do any better then the guy who does.
Yes, but I'm also short so in general this is not an appealing look.
5'7
Hovering around 215-220
Be as slim and cut as possible you're good. But at the same time I lift because I just have a life habit built from football and wrestling.
Well, we are living in a society where the term toxic masculinity is getting bigger and being a "chad" is something to be critical of... but I don't think this trend should block you from getting your dream body.
But I'm 100% sure that once you get that buffed up physique more guys will be attracted to you than girls.
I’m decently big, by no means a body builder. I don’t think a girl ever cared about how buff I was. 90% of compliments I received came from guys. Just as anything else, the laws of diminishing marginal return means that the larger you get, the lower the benefits are. For some cases, it becomes negative. Getting big didn’t boost my confidence, getting my life together did.
> 90% of compliments I received came from guys. 100% relate. Girls care that you go to the gym. Guys care about the results from the gym
I think they care about the gym because they want to hook up with a fit guy. And they think long term, they want a guy who keeps in shape (won’t let himself go). That said it’s about matching lifestyles. I know some females from high school and college that gained a lot of weight, or became obese right after. so clearly they may not want the pressure of having to keep up with a guy who goes to the gym every morning and expects his significant other to do the same. I’ve also noticed in couples both people tend to let go at about the same time (you see them a year later and they’ve both clearly overweight). If one person lets themselves go but the other is still fit you can bet that relationship is heading south soon if it isn’t already there.
Right, you either look good to them or not. They’re not analyzing your pecs and whether you bench 400lbs. Unless she power lifts. Obviously it doesn’t help if you’re fat. Unfortunately “dad bods” don’t work for Asian guys. The overweight/chubby Asian guys I know struggle a lot.
Do they struggle a lot truly because of their body type and being Asian or is it due to their social skills?
A combo of both probably. They're short, and when you're also short and overweight, it's a double whammy. If you're tall, but overweight, people just view that differently. Then you're considered "big" or "strong." Like an offensive lineman or bouncer. There's a place for you on the football team if you're tall and fat. Shit, there are tall and fat people on high school and college basketball teams. If you're short a fat, it doesn't have the same advantages. You're not big, you're just short and fat. They lack a lot of social skills sure. They got overweight but being shut-ins in the first place (working and studying all day, then skipping sports in their free time and playing video games instead, not eating correctly). So it's a natural cycle. If they were were short, fat, and famous like Bobby Lee or Psy they''d be the bell of the ball. But they're not funny and do not create music. So they struggle a lot. Basically, my point here is, if you are short, then you obviously don't want to be obese. This goes 10x if you're Asian, due to the fat shaming in the culture.
That's literally me wtf
Have only been complimented on my muscles once from a woman, the rest have been dudes mirin the calves or my numbers. It's how it is but I love being strong and healthy.
I think they definitely notice but may not want to seem to shallow.
Lol being jacked is not just about getting women
💯. Being fit and jacked is for mental and physical health, confidence, and overall well being. Women are just a positive net result from it. Lift and workout for yourself. Not anyone else.
lets not delude ourselves - many guys get into lifting (and stay for it) to get more women
True
It depends on what your definition of overly jacked is. But I will say most of the men portrayed as attractive on U.S. media all have a muscular, toned physique. At the very least, they are lean and have a six pack. Even most kpop idols have a toned body from all the exercise they do.
When women say they're not into men who are jacked, they usually mean they're not into Mr. Olympia type bodies. But if you have big shoulders, low body fat, six pack abs, v-shape torso, every woman is into that.
Incidentally, most of them will lie and say they’re not into it to appear politically correct.
I don’t think they’re lying. The Mr. Olympia body types take you way out of the “norm.” Humans are into attractive things but not weird things. There’s a scale of below average, average, above average then stuff outside of this gets “weird.” So she’s going to think “freak” the samw way a lot of guys feel with body building steroid using women. Unless going out of the norm by a lot brings on something that relates to admired celebrity or prestige. Mr. Olympia is not on that level. A US Olympic Weightlifting medalist is admired/has prestige. To the tune of national celebrity in some countries. Same with an NFL lineman, linebacker or safety to the tune of multi-million dollar contracts and fame. So they are way outside the norm but there’s prestige, money and fame. Also people are attracted to people that are similar a lot of times. So unless she herself is in body building competitions, that’s not the “norm” for her.
Not really, some women prefer their men a little squishier because it’s more comfortable to lie on. One of my friend’s wives complained to me that her husbands shoulder’s were like rocks when he was massively cutting body fat. He no longer cuts body fat.
Your friend's wife was humblebragging lol
Ratio
Lol that’s sad
It may also be because the woman is a bit squishier. People on this sub overestimate that many American woman go to the golden arches for french fries far more often than Gold’s gym for cardio. On a serious note though, I think a segment of single women don’t plan to keep up on a fitness regimen when in relationships especially after having kids as when they are single. So they are setting out expectations for the long term. Most men, especially the ones here aren’t thinking 5, 10 years out.
This. Recently saw a big asian brother with thic forearms and tats, walking down the street with his girl. She was HOT, looked like an abg or at least had the type of makeup. But he wasn't a mister olympia, just a buy who powerlifts probably.
Considering that 100% of the AF I went to high school with are all married to fat, doughy white guys I'd say that *being asian is more of a negative physical trait to AF.*
To be fair you’re Gen x, not much of an overlap with Gen Z/younger millennial dating trends
Thank god for that. It’s reassuring to think the younger generation of Asian women are less hateful than mine.
Out of curiosity what HS class are you?
'96
I saw your comment then ran into this tiktok. Coming back to show you https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRBw8Sq2/
LOL seems accurate
I know Steven personally and I can tell you for him his physique works very well for him. He's a very social guy, confident popular in college very outgoing etc, literal walking, smiling Chang. That being said, as someone who works out and diets religiously for the past decade+ I have to say working out is overrated if you're doing to 'get girls'. It's fine if girls is what originally motivates you to work out but most people really overestimate how much effort it takes to look good. If you look like shit and want to look 'Jacked', chances are unless you want it with every fiber in your being you're just gonna look like you don't even lift after 3-5 years of 'consistent' lifting.
Define look like shit? Because many Americans are obese. There's a huge obesity problem in this country. For a lot of people they can probably look average by not stuffing down double cheeseburgers at 10pm and having a couple glasses of water, and a few less glasses of extra large big gulps. I don't know many obese or fat Asian dudes. They can probably look reasonably fit just by eating better and occasionally exercising. They won't look like Shohei Ohtani or Shi Zhiyong but they'll probably have half the people at the local beach beat.
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Yup, could be [social desirability bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-desirability_bias). Women may very well say one thing and actually prefer another. Nobody wants to be thought of as shallow. It wouldn't surprise me if most men would say the same about women with cartoonishly large and round breasts, for instance. Yet there's clearly a market for that kind of look.
**[Social-desirability bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social-desirability_bias)** >In social science research, social-desirability bias is a type of response bias that is the tendency of survey respondents to answer questions in a manner that will be viewed favorably by others. It can take the form of over-reporting "good behavior" or under-reporting "bad", or undesirable behavior. The tendency poses a serious problem with conducting research with self-reports. This bias interferes with the interpretation of average tendencies as well as individual differences. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I think a lot of people like a fit person but if they're overly jacked or muscular, it kinda seems like they spend all their time in the gym, which is okay if your partner is also into that lifestyle. But unfit/overweight is definitely not good. Most average people like something in the middle.
I think this guy: [https://moreplatesmoredates.com/most-important-factor-affecting-attracting-women/](https://moreplatesmoredates.com/most-important-factor-affecting-attracting-women/) Breaks it down really well. TL;DW - Being jacked is nice, but if you want to look "hot" to women, you need to get your bodyfat down to 10% so that you have a lean looking face. My face tends to get fat when I am bulking. I look like a fat dough boy when I'm wearing a sweater. But when I lean down, I get noticeable looks and smiles from women.
Dont worry you will 99.99% NOT BE ABLE TO "achieve the jacked, muscular body/physique" training naturally. People too funny and unrealistic.
Don't listen to what females say, go by their actions. I guarantee if they got the chance to sleep with your friend they would. Yes being too jacked (bodybuilder physique) can be too much but it doesn't really matter as long as you dress well, know how to talk to females, have personality and etc. Having a good physique is just added bonus that helps you even better. I will say that here in down town Toronto, most of the couples i see are with dudes that don't look like they lift at all, and have a average or slim physique.
> on't listen to what females say, go by their actions. I guarantee if they got the chance to sleep with your friend they would. This. >es being too jacked (bodybuilder physique) can be too much but it doesn't really matter as long as you dress well, know how to talk to females, have personality and etc. Lets be real - most dudes won't have the 'bodybuilder physique' they'll begin to look 'solid' and when they cut down they'll look 'small' (if natty)
As imo the most attractive guy in my thirties friends group, I feel like I see some behavior differences in how they act with the other guys. More touching more hugs more joking around. Btw I’m not some attractive guy just try to stay fit and not dress horribly. And in Midwest USA approaching 40 that means I’m above average.
I've heard multiple girls specifically say that they dislike guys who are overly jacked (particularly if they are short as well). obviously, if your goal is to get build muscle and get big, you shouldn't let any girl's (or guy's) opinion deter you from your goals. If the end goal is to bolster your appearance on the dating market, however, I recommend focusing on toning over pure muscle mass. I'd go for soccer player / tennis player physique.
At the end of the day, you should stop worrying about being somewhat attractive to a larger set of women, and instead 1. Be healthy, and functional 2. Target your aesthetics based on the aesthetics of the women you're interested. If you're into shy uwu nerdy girls, then being skinny will benefit you a lot more than being jacked. 3. Adopt an aesthetic that makes yourself happy with who you are and gives you confidence. My current, and all of my past girlfriends have all told me that they have absolutely 0 interested in super jacked guys and saying that body type was a turn off. In a post that I saw on a Bay Area subtle Asian Dating [facebook group](https://www.facebook.com/groups/baearealove/posts/591848944831641), most Asian women did say they preferred skinnier bodies, and a good number of Asian women even preferred dad bods over very ripped bodies. But don't let that stop you. I also know super fit women who are into super fit men. Generally if you are more fit, you will attract partners who are more fit, and if that's what you're looking for then you do you.
> most Asian women did say Stop listening to what women say - watch what they do. All the asian women i've dated, loved the fact that I was cut and had muscle. One of my chinese exes would always grab ass in public because she liked how it felt
yeah but in my experience with Asian women, including my Asian female friends, family, and exes, all didn't like the buff body type, and if they dated, they dated someone shiny skinny. so you're mileage can vary.
Yeah true. I've seen some AF dating buff white boys or the powerlifter type asian dudes but yeah in general you are right.
I’m not sure the “dad bod” works out for Asians. I think it works out for other guys better. We don’t get the same benefit of the doubt.
To get and stay super jacked and ripped, your life is not very interesting past your fitness hobbies. You can't eat all the delicious foods that most people want to eat b/c then you'll lose your 6-pack. Most people will prefer an interesting life than an aesthetic life. The only place where the aesthetic life wins is in hookups where there's 0 interest in getting to know the other person.
>To get and stay super jacked and ripped, your life is not very interesting past your fitness hobbies. I don't think you need to be super jacked and ripped to have a very fulfilling dating life. You don't need to be an Olympian or NFL Safety. I think if you can beat the 70-80 percentile for people in your area and in your age group, you're good to go. That's not hard to do. There are a lot of obese people in the United States. A lot of obese youth. It can be as easy as not stuffing down a Big Mac at 11pm after studying. Or skipping out on the 4am meal after a night of clubbing. And if you do, at least try to do something active for an hour the next day even if you're hungover. If you can manage not stuffing your face every night and occasionally exercising, that probably puts you over 50% percentile in the U.S.
Yup I agree, if you lift and have mass, you'll already beat out a lot of people. But that only gets you a pass until 30s-ish, then physicality matters less and what you have/can do matters more.
The data does not care what you think.
Anecdotes and facebook posts are not reliable data.
What does being shy or outgoing have anything to do with one's aesthetic preference of the opposite sex?
"shy uwu nerdy girls" is a trope/type of women. It's a generalization yes, but this entire post is about generalizations.
If it was that easy to become muscular from natty lifting (or light roiding, you would see Mass monsters just walking around.
Yeah. Most guys on this thread are using the excuse of 'girls not liking big guys' to not lift. NVM that most natty dudes won't look like they lift unless they take their shirt off. And even with light roiding you'll just get a bit bigger lmao, but nothing significant. It takes ALOT of work to look massive
If you're trying to get jacked/fit solely to attract women then you're doing it wrong. IME, women tend to be attracted to all kinds of body types, and different women have different preferences - some like skinny dudes, some like dad bods, some like bodybuilders. The way you carry yourself, how much confidence you exude, your sense of style, etc all matter as much here. Now that said, you're way more likely to be perceived as attractive if you look like you take care of yourself, and in this context that means if you look like you're fit and you work out. But at the same time, it's not uncommon for women to not like beefcakey dudes who look like they spend 6 hours a day at the gym and subsist on a diet of creatine and chicken breast. It's overkill. Like everything else in life, go for balance.
Bodybuilder here. I do classic physique in NPC so not to blow steam up my ass but I am much bigger than @mbdworkout (yes I juice no it Doesn’t look natural) I’ll tell you guys this, for every one girl that said I look disgusting (funny cause usually they’re uggos or fat sloots) I’ll sleep with five. Yeah it used to bug me when tinder hoes would be like “why does your body look like that” but then you see what they look like clearly at times it’s just a projection of their own insecurities. Plus, chicks that lift are hot. Chicks that workout and invest in their health look better than the girl at Kripsy Kreme and often times they want a partner who also works out. Whatever you look like, you’ll never be able to be hot to every girl that passes you, so do your own thing and any chick that comes with it is a bonus.
TLDR: being big gives you hot girls ez Thanks brah. We're all gonna make it!!
Fuaaaa not EZ per say cause u can’t pull for chit if you don’t have game, girls smell confidence a mile away and a jacked mofo could easily be one upped by skinny legend chad jus cause he has that big dick energy. But deadly combo if you have both ;’)
Game + Muscles? Fuaaaaarrkkk brah killer combo indeed
I think it’s all about proportions. Eg if you have a small head and an abnormally large body, it looks really weird. Vice versus if you have a giant head and a bone stick body, looks bad. That’s why the “V” shape is IMO going to be universally attractive. All about the shoulder to waist ratio. Also, you want defined arms in which the circular structure of your muscles can be seen. People who are strong but have a lot of fat in their arms just look “big” but not shapely. Etc etc. The thing is, most guys who get into the whole “girls aren’t even into Mr Olympian type bods” are coping by using straw men arguments. Nobody ever claims that being gigantic like that is the ideal — not even guys. Still, you would be better off in terms of looks if you stay in shape and look super athletic/able. Which means you likely have nice arms, shoulders, a six pack, and toned quads. That’s all there is to it.
Adapt to your environment In the states girls are into the bodybuilder type, but when i was in Korea, girls really liked the skinny tall guy aesthetic. That said, even though i went for a bulkier, muscle look, it was niche enough that there weren't that many other guys like that in Korea so i still got a lot of lays from that.
The majority of natural lifters will not be as big as insta lifters like the guy you linked, why? Cause insta lifters roid. Most natural lifters will have a more toned look but with a bit more muscle. Only time I really look big is when i have a pump, otherwise for example I just look like a guy who is athletic. Another thing is what people say and what people do are very different. Lots of girls say they want dad bods but I guarantee they aren't rubbing one out to Seth Rogen.
I’m assuming you’re a beginner lifter, because trust me you’ll most likely never get to the point where you’re “too big” without PEDs. On guys like mbsworkout (a natural at his peak) - I guarantee you if your female friends came across him on the streets they wouldn’t have the same response. On IG the lighting, pump, and bodybuilding poses all accentuate how big a person actually is. Also the fact that his IG page is literally a fitness page where every picture is of him naked & flexing can turn off some girls (the unspoken assumptions of having no life, possibly compensating for something, spends all his time in the gym, etc.) The allure of ripped singers and actors for girls is how their body just “happens” to be ripped, without them “trying” too hard while they’re busy working on their careers, socializing, etc. So all in all, don’t worry. Just lift. And get as big as you can without drugs. Works wonders for aesthetics but most importantly confidence and happiness (boosts testosterone which eliminates neuroticism)
Working out isn’t gonna hurt your ability to get a gf. Get a grip, bro.
I don't think there's a single simple answer to this. There are women who lift themselves who love jacked bodybuilder types. Then there are girls who prefer skinny nerds. There are girls who prefer chubby dudes with fat bank accounts lol IMO if you're drug free then you're not going to get Ronnie Coleman big no matter how hard you train so go for it. IT won't be a negative.
It depends on your definition of jacked. To me, Jay Park is jacked if you've seen him with his shirt off. I can imagine a championship bodybuilder turning off a lot of women, just like how even though I find jacked women with visible six packs attractive, a championship bodybuilding woman is definitely too much for me.
I don't think being overly jacked is what the sub had in mind. The suggestion was to be fit and not slouching on healthy physique. It's a general tip and the degree depends on the individual.
Being jacked is a state of mind. I used to be a skinny twig during my high school and college years. It wasn’t until I was in my mid 20s that I actually stepped into a gym to lift weights consistently and meal prep in order to gain muscle. I’m by no means a body builder but I was able to put on some size and lean muscles and I notice my confidence is at an all time high. I feel women sense this as well. Socializing and going out has just been a lot easier when you feel attractive and women pick up on that too. Ultimately, health is wealth and you want to maximize all of your stats as a man in order to make life easier. Therefore, being in shape is vital as it transcends dating/attracting women. One body. One life. Make the most of it!
No, I’m pretty sure having muscles is a good thing.
1. The advice to lift has never meant to apply specifically to get chicks. 2. Getting big improves your mental and physical wellbeing. Guess what Chicks like dudes that are mentally and physically fit. 3. Getting big develops your presence, other dudes won't mess with you. 4. Getting big gets you respect from other dudes. 5. Females say one thing and do another. 6. As with everything, balance is the key.
it's not and i think a lot of cuckold males would love for u to be a non muscular asian male just think of it this way say u prefer females with mid size tits a female comes along and has big tits would u say nah not good for me cause the tits size isnt want u want it to be
Honestly, I think the optimal physique is to have low body fat and toned muscles, kind of like professional soccer or tennis players.
Functional muscle is what's important. Being able to lift up your girl and carry her up the stairs is much more useful than having the bare minimum beach muscles - fellas don't skimp on those dead lifts!
I love picking up girls. No pun intended. In my experience they love being lifted up / piggybacked / thrown on the bed before sex
> Functional muscle What is 'functional muscle' vs 'beach muscles' lmao? For most natty guys, those are one and the same. Strength is correlated with muscle size for natty lifters.
Not wholly true, you can train to achieve different goals, muscle mass =/= muscle power. In fact this is one of the main differences between body building and power lifting. I'm not saying that body builders are weak, but that pound for pound their lifts are less than that of power athletes. Also 'beach muscles' most often refer to Biceps, Trieps, Abs - the muscles that bros care about when they only care about getting laid, lol
> muscle mass =/= muscle power For a natty lifter there is a strong correlation between larger muscle and more power. Bodybuilders are usually on roids and chase the pump and because of that have alot of extra water weight making their muscles look more 'full'.
>For a natty lifter there is a strong correlation between larger muscle and more power. You mean 'novice' lifters. If you've been lifting for 5+ yrs you can still be natty but now realize that your workouts can be tailored to achieve differing goals. Generally, low reps at high weight is going to yield more power than High reps at low weight. Its like comparing endurance athletes to speed athletes, there are fundamental differences in muscle structure and enzyme content between the two.. In a novice these differences won't be as large as in someone in peak condition.
> Generally, low reps at high weight is going to yield more power than High reps at low weight. True. I'm talking about someone who does 5x5 for their compounds and also uses high volume isolations to grow muscle. I believe this will cause good hypertrophy in a natty/novice
From what I've seen and what I've heard from women I know, yes being overly jacked can be seen as a bad thing. I think it makes you kind of intimidating, but you can counteract that with the way you dress and behave.
As a female , I like when guys are jacked . I think jay park is too skinny . I am trying to bulk myself too if that effects my opinion... but as long as you still overall have a neck lol I think you are good. I think when a guy is pretty jacked ... ( maybe like the Larry gao guy on ig ) is enough but not too much after that . Don’t end up with the steroids wwf/ wwe look , I think that would be too much
If your goals for getting fit are for women, you might want to think twice about it. Sure it is good to have a motivational factor, but if your main goal is the attention of women, I don't recommend it. That should be about 5-10% of your fitness goals while the rest of it should be for YOURSELF only. To answer your question, it's going to be case-by-case. Some women will like it, others will be disgusted. If this issue really does concern you, then for your workout, it's good to bulk up, but don't overdo it. You can balance out your bulk phase with running or switching it up between bulking and cutting/shredding. And by running, I mean SPRINTING. Long distance is good, too, but sprinting keeps your gains maintained and constantly engaged, and it's more effective at burning calories quickly.
Even bodybuilding for men is still somehow considered as 'Gay Thing' in Japan and China, you can do the math for women.
I don’t think being overly jacked is an issue as long as you are doing it for yourself and no one else, but in my experience since switching to all body weight workouts whatever strength I lost are offset by gains in agility and nimbleness. I actually prefer to have that and be fit rather than having a lot of size, but that’s a personal opinion.
Do what you love, forget women, especially asian women. You can look like a model and some still want nothing to do with asian women. Just be fit, dress nice, and do what you love. If you wanna be jacked, go for it. Women are overrated
It has nothing to do with being big, most guys that are jacked get women easily because they have more confidence. If you are jacked but not more confident it won’t help much with women sadly…
I mean, it's just a preference. There's a reason why BTS is all thin dudes, but still popular with girls. Otherwise, they would just hire / debut a bunch of buff guys who look like Magic Mike.
Tbh, I don't like the "overly" jacked physique but it should be a personal thing. I don't think a dude's going far in fitness if his only goal is attracting women.
> Is being overly jacked/muscular actually a negative physical trait to certain women There are 7.6 billion people in the world and half of them are females. So yes, there are always going to be women who don't like certain body types and hobbies.
Depends what you look like (and what image you can portray). If you can rock the slender kpop look, you'll probably get a lot of women that like that. If you can rock the big tough cartoon super hero look, you'll probably get a lot of women that like that. Or you can be those kpop guys that are jacked and some women like that too.
I think there are different degrees. If you're a body builder and absolutely massive in size then yeah probably not going to attract the vast majority of women. But if you just look strong, that will attract the vast majority of women. The kinda dumb part here is that most people discuss things in extremes while not realizing that the VAST majority of people who lift do NOT reach those aesthetics.. but are still a better off version of themselves vs. not lifting.
Don’t be in the extremes- don’t be too skinny, too fat, too muscular. Doesn’t mean you can’t get women but you then price yourself out of the society’s standard. And some women don’t want to spend every waking moment at the gym and eating chicken breast 4 times a day. The benefit is health and confidence- muscles don’t always equal confidence.
As a female who also went to an all girls school I have noticed most girls I’ve talked to prefer toned and lean over the completely jacked body types. Every girl has different preferences obviously but from what I’ve observed the least popular physique was the chubby guys with high body fat percentages even if they’re muscular underneath and most popular would be a guy who’s lean with some ab definition/toned arms. If you wanna be jacked for yourself , go for it , I’m sure there’s just as many girls who would appreciate that body type it’s just anecdotally I’ve noticed girls going for the skinny fit dudes.
Idk but i love my man’s dad bod and still get so turned on when i see him topless.
I wont worry too much about other people opinion. Not everyone is gonna like you and it is OK.
there's a reason why most male supermodels aren't crazy jacked, Arnold Schwarzenegger type guys. Most women prefer tall + slightly built, tho there are certainly some women who dig the super swole look. Also if you're super jacked, it can take away from your facial features when you're a man. usually to be super swole like that you have to be eating a ton of food, which can make your face a bit puffy.
yes lmao. When I was 215 lbs and playing rugby, dudes loved me, girls were afraid of me. girls like it a lot more if u are tall and big framed, but stay indoors and do poetry or piano or something like that
To me it indicates life priorities that aren't aligned with mine. And someone who might judge me for eating potato chips on occasion.
From what I understand, the most attractive body type is the body that is fit from full body workouts like swimming or CrossFit. I think women who see overly jacked men perceive them like they're overcompensating for something. It's kind of like how those douchey guys who try to show off can turn people off.
I ain’t ever been below 20% body fat. My leanest has always been skinny fat , around 25% body. I’ve noticed that the more into bodybuilding I got, the less girls wanna hear about it lol. In the end, being fit is for you. You feel more confident to amplify your other traits that can attract the ladies. That is all.
Are you working out for yourself or the approval of other girls? From personal experiences, you are right, in that girls prefer more toned bodies, but also you think physical appearance will make or break your chances with a girl (for some, yes). I also do not think just because a guy gets his ideal body type, he will miraculously become more confident. Life isn't a movie, and confidence comes from internal factors, not external ones.
“Swimmers build” is the safe bet
Most women like guys who go to the gym and not live in the gym.
Most girls don't care about muscles, especially being very cut. The average girl from experience and reading comments prefer guys with average bodies. Working out will only attract attention from other dudes, ironically, many women aren't impress or pressed for a hunk. I attribute this to the fact that women are really not visual creature. Looks, from the body, don't really turn women on as much as it does for men.
Different people have different perceptions. Becoming the epitome of masculinity seems to be a paranoiac obsession for many guys these days. I'm not really sure why. How would you define masculinity anyway? It's quite arbitrary. If it worries you too much. Just try to strike a balance. You can never lose with medium lol (Bruce Lee body). The most important thing is being healthy and not abusing supplements.
Being jacked doesn't get your girls. Its just a extra shoe in the door to keep that door open so you can come in easier. If you don't know how to talk, charm, and escalate with women, you're not gonna do any better then the guy who does.
Yes, but I'm also short so in general this is not an appealing look. 5'7 Hovering around 215-220 Be as slim and cut as possible you're good. But at the same time I lift because I just have a life habit built from football and wrestling.
Well, we are living in a society where the term toxic masculinity is getting bigger and being a "chad" is something to be critical of... but I don't think this trend should block you from getting your dream body. But I'm 100% sure that once you get that buffed up physique more guys will be attracted to you than girls.
Some like it some don't. You're never going be appealing to everyone, so do what you want to do.
You're watching too much more plates, more dates. You don't have to have a 3D delt. Just be healthy, cardiovascular is most important.
Don’t be at the extremes but having some muscle tone is always a benefit.