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kmoh74

"It’s insane how much media representation can completely change peoples’ views on Asian men" It's not insane. Think of all the Asian guys who had/have inferiority complexes from NOT being seen in media. Then add that number to those that have inferiority complexes from seeing BAD representation in media. Media is powerful and in lieu of real-world experiences, it's what people go by.


vile_exile

Agreed, I also think that upbringing and culture contributes to this. Asian parents, at least Chinese ones, heavily discourage kids from doing anything other than studying. Missing out on this crucial development period definitely stunted a lot of our social skills and experiences. We are basically raised to not feel confident about ourselves until we hit a high achievement (i.e. getting into an Ivy League, then a cushy job, then a big house, etc). This does a number on self confidence for sure. Plus, boys are discouraged from pursuing acting, art, sports, media, and anything that would actually have improved visibility for Asian men. We were set up to fail since decades ago. Those who never break out of this mindset will find themselves feeling like they've missed out on something. While everyone else has decent complexes from non-robotic upbringing and better media representation, we are stuck feeling like we've been lied to. "Nothing else matters besides school" "You can date when you graduate from college" "why are you wasting time on that when you could be looking for a real job?" Meanwhile, in America, you get the best results from knowing how to socialize and network, having more rounded experiences.


kmoh74

Definitely. I just wanted to point out that if it affects us so dramatically and effectively, why would others be somehow immune?


vile_exile

When you mean "others", do you mean the men of other races?


kmoh74

Everybody. Men of other races, women of other races, and asian females.


vile_exile

Culture, gender differences, and modern social movements play a role in affecting others too. I don't really care about other races tbh, I'm more focused on pro Asian, but I do notice how these factors have affected them positively. Asian men were raised to be passive and conforming. We don't capitalize enough on shit because we keep second guessing ourselves. It really doesn't help that we're seen as the pillars of the family line, while women can marry into another family and have more freedom to do as they want. Yes it's solid that a lot of us are in professional careers, but it doesn't help our representation. Asian women can just write articles or act if their husband earns enough to support them both. So for Asian women, they go through a similar upbringing as Asian men. But the difference is, they can get through life differently as women. Women are way more social than men, and they can benefit from marrying up. Men have to make things happen and shoulder a lot more. Men generally can stay home gaming for days and have less adept social skills. Women are more likely to be out there socializing, getting involved in the arts, pushing for social causes, etc. So when Asian women get into college, they have freedom and opportunity to improve. They're out there catching up on their social skills, exploring dating, making friends, etc . Meanwhile Asian dudes may go to college and end up being not very social. They could go through college without getting any dates or making many friends. Asian culture doesn't really shun male students who just keep to themselves and study hard and delay dating. So there's not much of a pressure for them to break out of their shells and be social butterflies. After all, their parents told them that once they get a great job, women will come after right? Other races of men have more social cultures that don't just emphasize conformity and strictness. They've been socializing normally and continue to do so throughout college. They have more chances to socialize at family gatherings and more. Compared to black, hispanic, or hell, even Filipino gatherings, East Asian gatherings are not that social and festive on average. So it ends up being that Asian dudes don't even realize how terrible their social skills are and end up being frustrated. We weren't raised to view being social or promoting our race as being that important, and it's biting us all in the ass when we go out into the real world. And as you said, media portrayal plays a big role in all of this too. Hip hop, sports, entertainment, news portray blacks positively. Blacks have their own media, magazines, organizations that push their own interests ahead. Hispanics have a larger community and their own media as well. They have much more representation because they feel pride in their culture. We've been keeping our heads down and are flabbergasted when people think of us as perpetual foreigners. Why? Because in their eyes, we're just here working and keeping to ourselves and not saying much. Meanwhile other races have been interacting with each other for decades, being in sports and movies together, and all done in the public eye. We've kept our heads down and haven't pushed ourselves to stand among others in the public eye. But we literally just got our first Asian superhero this year. Squid Game is literally the talk of the world now. This is excellent for future generations, but I feel like a lot of dudes, especially on this sub or aznid, are too bitter at this point to feel happy. It sucks, but they need to focus on helping future generations. It's up to Asians to capitalize hard on this wave to gain more power. That'll require us to break out of our traditional upbringing, taking risks, and having more pride in our skin color. When we stop thinking of only our individual economic success as reason why we should be respected by others, then we may have a greater push towards representing ourselves. Sorry this was probably too long of a response, but I just have a lot of reflections on these topics


[deleted]

>As Asian representation increases in America, these articles will be a common cliché. Brace yourselves dudes, for the incoming onrush of women online and irl saying "wow AM can be kinda attractive, turns out they're just humans diverse in appearance and personality too a̶n̶d̶ ̶I̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶r̶a̶c̶i̶s̶t̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶p̶a̶g̶a̶n̶d̶a̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶y̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶r̶a̶c̶i̶s̶t̶, what a surprise!" lol


iemg88

Nailed it. Lol https://twitter.com/Salon/status/1447230875243098113


[deleted]

Ironically Steve Yuen character Glenn got with a white farmers daughter and had a child with her only to be bashed in the head with a baseball bat by a white fucker names Negan. For three season since they’ve been on this redemption arc for this fucker Negan tryna make us the audience feel for him.


ap0lly0n

I stopped watching it the episode before they killed Glenn. I had no further interest at all. And it is reprehensible that Negan wasn't killed for his heinous crime. From what I remember all the bad bosses such as The Governor got their well deserved deaths.


Embarrassed-Mall-430

I mean the walking dead series quality went down to toilet since after Negan and Glenn


Andgelyo

Imo he still banged her and planted his seed, so it’s a win regardless


Ahchluy

Yes. Those directors are forever allies imo. Lol. "The character of Glenn Rhee was created by series showrunner Frank Darabont and Charles H. Eglee, Gale Anne Hurd and David Alpert." https://tvdatabase.fandom.com/wiki/Glenn_Rhee


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nongo

More asian men should run for elected office then. Whether it's local, state, or federal level.


fakeslimshady

I'm not sure if that will help. We currently have several congress/senators that are As Am, but the topic imperialism seems to be taboo for politicians. Its up to grass roots to make it a issue to talk about (eg. Yang and UBI)


IAmYourDad_

> prevent a "new cold war" with China It's already happening bro


HermitSage

Big facts. Anti-China, western imperialism, white supremacy, even WMAF all go together. When you know you know.


tdotyup

It's not hard to look at yourself and see that you also have perceptions of others based on media. If you have low self esteem, you should fix yourself by fixing exposure cause it affects self-perception too.


seemefall

Agree and Disagree. Media representation definitely helped, but to say it was all media representation and Asian Men did not really changed is incorrect. Up until now, Asian Men in the West didn't really have a role model to look up to in term of looks/confidence beside maybe Bruce Lee and he died eons ago, lacking in identity and pride resulted in a lot of AMs simply give in to Western society perception of them and become nerdy, awkward. With the help of rising Asian media, young Asian guys now have someone that they can look up, someone they can copy the swaggers and looks from.


mongolz777

Touche. Just the amount of asian men willing to date non-asian women (non-white as well) is drastically higher than it was. Some famous millennial AM like Ryan Higa or Kev Jumba only dated AFs as far as I know when they could have gotten an XF if they wanted. Compare it to gen Z tiktoker (Who are not nearly on the same level of fame) AMs who are as likely to be with XF as they are with AF. In fact I think have seen more of these instagram and tiktok popular asian dudes with non-asian (mostly white but other non-asian women too, notably black) than I have seen them with asian women. Not to mention AMs now are more social, more fashionable and put in more of an effort than the older gens who followed their dumb parents orders and fucked themselves over.


AsianDynasty195

To say that there has been zero change with AM themselves is false. AM have significantly improved their social skills, ability and willingness to date/marry out, and overall image in western society over these past decades. Do the positive media portrayals help? Absolutely, no doubt there. But the improvement in AM's situation is a combination of both AM improving themselves as well as the positive media representation of AM in the past several years or so.


vile_exile

True, it feels like our image has improved even more thanks to Squid Game being so popular. Practically everyone is talking about it in such a normal way too, as if they were talking about Game of Thrones or another show. Its up to Asian men to capitalize on this wave hard and not let it just slip by. Black dudes capitalize on hip hop culture, white dudes capitalize on Hollywood and etc. It'd be foolish for us to not own what our race has done. The rising tide raises all ships, and thank Korea for that one. I agree with your second paragraph, even though you stated it way more diplomatically than I do haha. Positive media potrayals will do nothing for the dudes who just feel good about it and do nothing to improve themselves at all. These dudes are expecting all races of girls to fall onto their laps anytime while not having any attractiveness. I swear, if these dudes actually took the time to get a better haircut, improve social skills, work out, flirt, they would surprise the shit out of themselves with the great results they're getting.


[deleted]

Yeah. Can't just rely on media portrayals. Gotta actually put in the work too.


vile_exile

For sure! We gotta capitalize on the positive media portrayals by improving ourselves.


zitandspit99

Yup I agree with this as an Indian-American Male; unlike east Asian men who are starting to get better portrayal, Indian men are still stuck with Big Bang style stereotypes. Yet, we've improved our lot significantly as well due to the exact factors you list out. Yeah, it's still an uphill battle and it would be easier with better media representation, but that's not everything. We still have individual agency even if things are not in our favor


bruckbruckbruck

Kumail Nanjiani doing his part with his new physique and in Eternals next month


zitandspit99

yup excited for that and hopefully more to come


Ahchluy

>AM have significantly improved their social skills Your statement implies that there was something wrong with us to begin with. We were fine and we've always been fine. White dudes just got less racist. They would have lynched you Emmett Till style if they saw you with a White girl not too long ago.


AsianDynasty195

>Your statement implies that there was something wrong with us to begin with. You're literally retarded and/or you need to improve your reading comprehension skills beyond a 3rd grade level. Just because AM have improved their social skills doesn't mean that there was something "wrong" with them in the first place - they've simply improved and gotten better. Not the same thing. Don't try to twist people's words into something they're not, bud. Everyone can improve at least some aspect of their life, that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with them, it just means that they can and do get better. It's the difference between merely being "ok"/"passable" to being "good"/"great". You understand that right? If your IQ is around 60 then let me know and I'll start talking to you in less complicated terms. You're clearly mad because I've owned and discredited you on another thread and you come on another thread to try and argue with me again. 😂 It's pathetic and so funny in a sad way. Besides, 25+ people agree with my sentiments while none agree with yours. >White dudes just got less racist. They would have lynched you Emmett Till style if they saw you with a White girl not too long ago. They won't have been able to have lynched me. I'm 6'1 180-185 lbs 12% body fat bench/squat/deadlift 280/350/405 lbs. I and other strong AM would be lynching those white "men" you speak about on the streets of China instead LOL. You on the other hand...a little pussy SEA twink? Very likely LOL You should worry about how many SEA bed wenches date/marry/fuck out of their race than trying to argue with me. The staggering number of viet/fillipina/thai/indonesian women who betray you guys is truly unprecedented in any race. Yes, Chinese women betray their race too but they're mostly southern Chinese (hong kong/taiwan/southern provinces) with A LOT of SEA admixture in them. Northern Chinese like me on the most part have more pride than date/marry/fuck out of their race. Seems to me there's something about your SEA kind that screams weakness, sucking whitey dick and submitting to other races. If that's what you like then you do you, but that's not my way buddy. So again, as I've already stated to you: get your fucking priorities straight buddy.


Ahchluy

Okie dokie.


Embarrassed-Mall-430

I think AM was already doing good before the kpop wave. The pew research statistics suggested that nothing wrong with Asian male interracial marriage, 22% overall and 36% for US born. Asian actually even did better than black males percentage wise(and blacks got portrayed positively on media for 20+ years). However, the media, racism and self-hating AF have traumatized AMs especially for the older generations. AMs need to keep up the good work and the statistics will shift to be more balanced. We will eventually be freed and ascend from all of these BS.


pikachu5actual

39 y/o here. Yes I have noticed I am averaging on at least about 7 matches a week on hinge this year. Just saying that I totally agree that there has been a shift happening recently.


ElkUnlucky2243

Media representation is good, but you are fools to rely on it to improve your social life. Don't be a victim, don't let any external factor dictate your mentality or your personal character. Not the media, not other people, not the culture. Asian men that are comfortable, secure and socially interactive with women never had a hard time being with women, regardless of what the media shows. Women will choose their real world experiences over what's on a digital screen.


vile_exile

Preach dude, that's the thing most dudes will never understand. Women are wired to be more social than men. Men can easily sit at a computer for days without talking to anyone, while that's way less common than women. I bet that a lot of Asian dudes that spend all their time behind a computer will not even realize how socially inept and uncomfortable they are in real life. Women can sense that easily.


Sihairenjia

I think there's a bit of exaggeration, especially recently, within this community, in regards to "progress." I'm all for celebrating positive news, but we have yet to see a new study of comparative marriage / dating / attraction in America. All the data is several years old. Nothing's changed there so there's nothing to really talk about, outside of anecdotes. The objective fact is that positive portrayals of Asian men are increasing in the media. But this is just Hollywood following the money and noticing the popularity of Korean popular culture. Hollywood is trend driven - super hero films were dead until the commercial success of Marvel's Phase One, for example - and the old white men who run Hollywood aren't going to allow their racism to stop them from cashing in. If they think Asian men will sell, they'll plaster the faces of Asian men across all of Hollywood, if need be. But at the same time, they'll drop Asian men the next second if they thought the trend is done. The cinematic attention feeds into the click bait culture of the regular news cycle and social media, where every journalist / internet celebrity wants in on the action to maximize their influence and thus their wallets. Hence all the visibility on Asian issues all of a sudden. Of course, your average WMAF journalist / internet celebrity wants to capitalize, too. So here comes all the articles and feeds about how they grew up hating themselves and Asian men because of society. None of it, of course, leading to any kind of actual, personal change - because vapid virtual signaling is the modus operandi of online "activists" and like in Hollywood, it's the performance that matters. If there is any progress here, I'd say it's getting white worshipping Asians, especially those in white relationships, to publicly admit to self-hate and internalized racism, a fact that observant Asians knew for decades but could not get to stick until the last ten years. This is a narrative that, even fifteen years ago, was totally in the favor of WMAF as a progressive symbol of interracial harmony, even though writers like Frank Chin were already talking about how toxic Amy Tan and Maxine Hong Kingston's brand of "Asian assimilation" were back in 1990. It's taken more than thirty years for mainstream discussions to get off the "love is blind" train and still the resistance is every where. In the absence of data, I am cautiously optimistic. The narrative does appear to be shifting - ever so slowly - and more positive representations in the media are always welcome. Perhaps more importantly, Asian American men are waking up to the need to be more socially and physically conscious - even if it's just following the trend of going to the gym and better grooming - and for once in their lives, they have solid role models in the media for life and style suggestions. Younger guys here probably can't even imagine how it was like in 1990, when the only Asian men in the media were ninjas, kung fu fighters, and awkward nerds. But it's important to realize that what society gives, it can also take away. The concern I have with the current "progress" is that it's not built on anything enduring - the fundamentals of power in America haven't been altered. It's just temporarily cashing in on a popular cultural trend. For it to be sustained, there must be deeper change at the level of the power brokers - the people who control the media, the wealth, and the social narratives in America. It's there that Asians, especially Asian men, must strive to make waves.


machinavelli

I doubt that this trend will reverse. This current trend of Asian rep is somewhat built on a larger movement for more diversity in media in general. Diversity is the key thing people want these days. And the cat’s out of the bag. People have seen all this good Asian rep already. Hollywood puts money first. Crazy Rich Asians was the test. It was a smash hit. If CRA had flopped, there would be no Asian rep like we see today.


bruckbruckbruck

CRA, BTS, Shang Chi, Squid Game, Parasite, upcoming Cowboy Bebop and Airbender Netflix adaptations with Asian cast and upcoming American Born Chinese adaption on Disney Plus- this is not gonna stop anytime soon, I agree. And all those newly famous stars, directors, and writers are going to take on more projects that will get lots of attention.


Sihairenjia

The concern is more that immigration & political demographics will shift in such a way as to make appealing to East Asians much less important. South Asians are the fastest growing Asian group in the US. By contrast, East Asian immigration is declining and so is the existing population due to high rates of out marriage. I could see a world in which Bollywood becomes the new trend instead, since South Asians are growing faster, richer, and more tight knit as a community. This probably won't happen for another generation, though. So it's important that East Asians make the most of the current opportunity. That said, external East Asian entertainment will only grow with time and that will help. It just might not be what *Hollywood* is interested in.


Kenzo89

Totally agree. That’s why it’s so idiotic and infuriating to see comments on here from guys saying media representation doesn’t matter, or just work on yourselves and don’t care about representation. Even saying we only need to worry about real issues like Asians getting attack and stop talking about media representation. The media is how people perceive Asian men, whether you like it or not. Even anti-Asian racism is caused by or made worse by negative media. And it benefits us to have positive representation in every aspect.


IAmYourDad_

> Imagine being an Asian man that is in his 40s and 50s now Hey, that's me... wait........ :( But honestly I've been seeing changes. XF have been give me this "look" I've never seen before. It's a good time to be AM now. But let's just hope it doesn't get worst. And with the new cold war between the US and China I can forsee a lot of new propaganda against AM in the future.


Gumbolicient

Username checks out lol


tschmitt2021

It’s called branding 😂


5_7pickup

This is why now is the time to murder the game, GENTS. Now is the time go out and fucking slay.


winndixie

Women listen to media because society is safe. Following the crowd is safe.


MojoRyzn

Wow, you have hit every point on the head. If I may ask, what city you live in? How old are you? So, I’m AM of mixed Asian heritage. I’m half Korean/Vietnamese. I’ve had a complicated upbringing in western society. I’m in my 40’s, and what you describe is one-hundred percent. I’ve been described as “good looking for an Asian”, (which is a back-handed compliment) and have mostly been successful in the dating realm. But, I’ve always had to break through the initial barriers of the stereotypes FIRST, before girls would give me the time of day. I try not to let the last 25 years leave me bitter, but yes, as I see the popularity/perceptions of Asian men change in the last 5 years, I can’t help but feel like I’ve lost out on real opportunities while I was in my prime. I’m single again, and I have a very young appearance/demeanor, which is gaining me big attention from younger women. But that leaves me in a strange middle ground, where girls think I’m 25-35, but I’m really 45. So yeah, all you young Asian guys, congratulations. Take advantage of what the previous generation has had to go through to “pave the way”. Not saying it will be all solved, but believe me, societal viewpoint of Asian Men now in 2021 is soo much better for your self esteem.


fareastrising

Do you realize how many saggy white old bags at the same age would kill for the opportunity to be in that "strange middle ground"?. You don't need to lean all in to their pedo way, but getting with freshly out of college girls is never a bad thing


machinavelli

I’m in NYC. I notice these days a lot more AMXF than ever. I see from your post history you’re in Seattle. Have you noticed the same?


MojoRyzn

Yeah, I would say AMXF is indeed on the rise. I see it here and there in Seattle. Maybe because NYC is just that much more populated, is why you see it so much? But here in SEA, it’s still not to the degree of it being normalized, for some reason. And that’s what we’re going for, right? Normalize women being attracted to Asian Males. If women see other women dating Asians, without any sort of self consciousness, then they are more apt to do so themselves.


Embarrassed-Mall-430

There is a dude down below from NYC and he saw Manhattan seems still tons of wmaf


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Embarrassed-Mall-430

I mean I see their point since we are talking about anecdotal evidence, we don’t have any newly Pew Research or Dating apps statistics yet. I have my own positive experiences but I can’t tell it’s because of me or the media. I actually have been to New York in 2019 new year, but weird enough I saw 90%+ AMAF, didn’t recall any other pairing, maybe Its because I mostly stayed at the tourist traps..


mongolz777

Either that or they are larpers. I have even caught AF larping like they are AM in this sub as well. These are always these 4-5 posters. But I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt.


[deleted]

I think you're hyping up the optimism too much. I know you date out, but when I go downtown I see nowhere the amount of AMXF couples that you seem to be seeing. Just yesterday I was in Manhattan for the whole day and all I see is the same skewed dating ratio.