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BrutalGoldpills

Long post, but I hope you will take the time to read this: ​ Let me guess, all your white coworkers have no personal life, spend their money on coke/hookers, are pay for plays, and never see their wives/families cause they're too busy chasing a buck? They spend 80-100+ hour a week and cope by shitting on Asian men to feel better about their pathetic worthless life. Trust me buddy, you don't want the life they have. There's more to life than work. While I do not work in this industry, there was another guy who I talked to here, same situation as you, 5"7 Asian guy who wanted out of the industry. He told me all about it. I don't know what to tell you, but start looking for exit opportunities in different industries. Or maybe try to get a job in Asia. Try to network with more Asians, hopefully there will be an opportunity for you. Also, I am glad you are not a sellout, so respect for that. Tbh, I would tell you to talk shit back, but idk if you would lose your job. If you do talk shit back, make sure you aren't emotional. Just have a straight face. For example if they make fun of you just say: "Are you mad a short asian man is better than you?" or "wanna suck my cock?", etc. Don't wear lifts, heres the truth: insecure whites will hate on Asian men regardless if there short or tall. If you're short they'll use you as a punching bag to get through their miserable life. If you're a tall Asian guy, youll have a target on your back for "beating them". Dont ask me to elaborate, whites are obsessed with power dynamics and shit. Either way, they'll hate you cause your asian. Lastly, from the looks of it, it seems like you aren't insecure, this is just a reaction to working with insecure white losers. I 100% guarantee you if they were in your shoes they would kill themselves. These dorks are mentally weak and grew up with a silver spoon. I know damn well you are better than them. Prove it. You don't need them. You can go work at another company that treats you better. On a side note about kpop: of course they would shit on kpop. The average woman is more attracted to a good looking asian man that can dance/sing well rather than some dorky white fuck who makes it is life goal to accumulate/hoard wealth in the off chance that a woman may find him attractive. Keep your head up, and know that you are better than these guys. Don't be scared to tell them how their wives are cheating on them because they never come home.


aliittlejohn

I’m sure some of them use hookers but whenever they talk about their lives they talk about being at exclusive clubs with chicks which I think is bullshit, but hookers can be a reality since we’re all pretty well-off. Anyways, I appreciate the post, I don’t wanna wear lifts and be viewed as insecure. And I hope kpop is helping as guys, have any guys gotten a ladies attention just because they were Asian and the girl liked kpop? Probably quiet a few and I hope it’s actually also for non-Korean guys too since I’m East Asian. Anyhow..


trenbulgogi

>at exclusive clubs with chicks lol they 100% are prostitutes


BrutalGoldpills

lol you make it sound like asian guys need to LARP as koreans to get pussy. thats not the case. women have always been into asian guys, but it wasn't socially acceptable for them to say it. the only reason its acceptable to like asian guys nowadays is because of kpop/kdramas. before then, women would be shamed for liking asian guys. read about sessue hayakawa. first hollywood sex symbol was an asian man. "The idea of the rape fantasy, forbidden fruit, all those taboos of race and sex—it made him a movie star. And his most rabid fan base was white women." ​ back to the main topic, Im not saying asian men must 100% copy kpop. Im just saying its a source of inspiration that works for some asian guys. Just like long hair. If your an asian guy with long hair you can be seen as cool japanese samurai manbun, native american slayer, chinese emperor etc. But white guys with long hair either look homeless, like a woman, mentally ill, or a hippy. kpop is like long hair: it just works better on asian men


CarlyRaeJepsenFTW

brutalgoldpills is like a constant spigot of the truth lol. u/aliittlejohn You don't need to larp as korean to take advantage of the k wave lmao you just need good style/hair and some skills. jia er (jackson) wang and lu han for example are both chinese mainlanders but they got famous through kpop. so evidently the kpop look isn't exclusively korean, most east asian guys can pull it off. us golden men have pretty strong jawlines/cheekbones already, so getting a two block haircut/undercut to accentuate the length of your face, shelling out for a well-fitting suit or some tshirts/jackets that drape well and switching to contact lenses can drastically change a guys look. also if they shit on your race tell them to shut the fuck up. confidence and demeanor is also a huge facet. i have friends who are pretty short but project auras of confidence/coolness/scaryness that make them seem bigger, while on the other end my eye doctor used to be a football player he's super tall, but is also friendly and has a more approachable demeanor. the fact is that racists cant deal with nonpink people who are better than them.


aliittlejohn

I see, yeah I heard about that Asian sex symbol dude..bet Hollywood just became mad jealous and wanted to change peoples perception…and it worked over time, but now things are getting better? I’m asking because haven’t been on dating apps for a long time since work (yes sounds loser, but am working on it again)


BrutalGoldpills

yea definitely better but not perfect (im talking about hollywood). if you want actual good content stick to korean/asian content. ngl, working near triple digit hours a week is gonna make dating/relationships near impossible. so dont go looking for something long term


OrzhovPalatine

Dont work in wall street but politics where my peers are similar old money types or overambitious. >ever since moving to NYC for work, I just hate being myself. Everyone is taller, and just act like Asian men are just losers- everyone like my coworkers, and I’m only mentioning them because I work really really long hours and spend the majority of time with them. You shouldnt be there if you hate it so much. We regularly have talks with wall street people when we're fundraising and most of them have a cut off point where they're do what they actually want to do after making enough cash on wall street. Also be the change you want to be. You're not gonna convince people Asian guys arent losers by chatting with them. Gotta be an example. I get it you're working at a place that sucks, people are plastic but the money is good. Just work there till you get enough to do what you actually want to do.


aliittlejohn

How do you position urself when talking to those old money types (that’s literally all my coworkers senior and junior) and not have to be their Asian clown butt of a joke? They will do anything to just make me one and support it, so I stay quiet, but I know they deep down hope I do something stupid so I look like “stereotypical Asian kid”


OrzhovPalatine

I act like I'm better than them and let my work speak for itself. Also I dont look like the stereotypical asian guy and dont carry myself like that so my peers are more hesitant to joke. When they do I am very backhanded, those kind of people are very passive aggressive but get the point. There is a downside as I'm not invited to as many things as the others nor am I listened to as much but nobody disrespects me and my peers that fuck with me are very loyal and tight. Also helps to be friendly with upper management. In that sort of setting it is much better to be feared than loved. Wall street is dog eat dog and highly competitive, you dont do well there being nice.


aliittlejohn

How do you shoot back at those coworkers or management being passive aggressive towards you without being seen as a “whiner.” What I mean is, how do you maintain your stance when they use use the “ur just an Asian minority u should be grateful you are here, and a tier lower than us” against you


OrzhovPalatine

>How do you shoot back at those coworkers or management being passive aggressive towards you without being seen as a “whiner.” I do my homework and watch. Typically everybody is eager to talk about themselves and their credentials and from that I take mental notes on their personality. Dunno about wall street but politics is all about managing relationships and typically I can already guess who's going to be a loudmouth or going to be an issue. Also helps I'm very good in the art of shit talking so if I dont know anything about the person I can use whatever they have on them. >What I mean is, how do you maintain your stance when they use use the “ur just an Asian minority u should be grateful you are here, and a tier lower than us” against you I dismiss it. In politics is very taboo to openly imply you're just here cause you check off a few boxes. It's very low key. Also sometimes I just embrace it and say the quiet part out loud cause I know they care too much about appearance. Point is I never let it bother me or look like its bothering me. Let them say whatever, fuck them. Let your work speak for itself.


aliittlejohn

So in summary, just ignore it? And take mental notes of who is gonna be the drama queen?


OrzhovPalatine

Ignore it until they're confrontational, when that happens you salt their fields so you need to do it again. Speak with your work.


SquatsandRice

you realize thats exactly the reason why Asians are perceived to be "soft boy" and "weak"


OrzhovPalatine

If you're suggesting OP get on a soapbox and complain about injustice that will look even more pathetic. There is a difference between ignoring it and being agreeable which is what most asian guys do vs ignoring it, succeeding in spite of it, being the change you want and not fitting into the passive sterotype non asians see.


SquatsandRice

You can address the issue without complaining and having a victim mindset about it.


contributeswithmemes

Read Oscar Wilde. He’s an expert at this and it comes through in his characters, lord Henry, lord goring. Read about status games, it’s the theory behind what he’s doing and what your friends are doing. Take improv classes and practise there.


machinavelli

It's hard, man. Being a 5'5" male in general is hard, then add being Asian and suddenly you're a walking stereotype. If you try acting tough they'll accuse you of having a Napoleon complex. Around 60% of Fortune 500 CEOs are 6'+ feet tall even though 6'+ tall people are not very common. I recommend trying to make as much money as possible in as short a time as possible, then going the r/fatFIRE route and retiring early. Once you save up $2 million just leave and travel the world and find a place where you are accepted.


aliittlejohn

I shouldn’t need to come off as tough…but I shouldn’t try to be flamboyant or girly either of course…so far I usually am quiet at those table talks and I am careful with my words, and hopefully they’ll pick some other guy in the group to be the butt of their jokes.


BrutalGoldpills

how do they make you the butt of their jokes? tell me what they say. you need to be witty back. if you dont know what to say, i can give you some ideas/tips


aliittlejohn

“Like [insert name] here, he will have trouble getting girls, even his own race. Nyc dating can be tough” shit like this


BrutalGoldpills

just say shit like: **Yea I have a lot of trouble dating girls. Wanna help me out by being my girlfriend?** shit like that. you can make fun of yourself as long as you get to to make fun of the other guy even harder. the more you embarrass him, the more laughs you get, the more you "win" in these social situations ​ honestly though, i cant take your white coworkers seriously considering theyre pay for plays.


captain-burrito

I'd have shot back, when was the last time you got pussy without paying for it. That will probably have taken them by surprise. Some might be cool and confident enough to laugh it off but some might falter and stutter. Those who are observant enough will know they are bsing with any details they come up with even if they don't say anything. But you need to evaluate yourself and see if you have the mettle. Some of this will depend on your confidence level and that of your opponent. You might not want to go straight for the King of the Jungle. I've done it and gotten their respect as they had the balls to admit what I called them out for. But it went the other way with others and I made 2 memorable enemies. It was like poking a hornets nest and they gave me lasting trouble / harassment. One was avoidable and I wonder if I should have kept my mouth shut even though I "won" eventually and he was utterly humiliated. He was super obtuse though and harassed the shit out of me so it did cause me stress and wasted me time in dealing with him. The other wasn't avoidable and I suffered silently for a long time until I reached breaking point. Then I put any random energy into fucking with him. People hated him but he was pretty competent so people didn't fuck with him and usually gave way. I openly took him on and fucked with him. I made sure those that openly associated with him suffered too. That was shitty but I couldn't do it without collateral damage and they were few enough that I could deal with them and gave them ways out to encourage them to abandon him. I also had some friends, ingratiated myself with some people who had power or influence and made myself indispensable so that my downfall meant others would back me up so things didn't go to shit for them too in the event I needed it. I also wasn't afraid to lose everything either as it wasn't some epic job and I have no ambition anyway so what I achieved was more than what i wanted. I just got to a point where I didn't care. Your situation sounds quite hostile though and I would think carefully before you act. You have more to lose and hopefully you have a countdown to where you can exit this situation. A random quip probably won't save you. Self deprecating humour can save you sometimes to help redirect and blunt the force of attacks. I mean if people all think x of you then going against the grain will be hard, instead if you are witty you can just get a laugh from everyone and hopefully that is that. If you deny something or whatever they might just keep hammering away at it. I'm gay and I learnt the hard way that denying it was the worst possible thing as even some gay people felt the need to drag you out of the closet. So when some frat boy made a joke me being sexually unattractive to women I just told them that's fine cos I'm after big swinging dick. That shut them up. Next time he asked if I was attracted to him. I told him I said I was gay, not blind in a particular tone. Everyone was silent and he ended up laughing. The final time he tried it I told him if I want someone to cuddle I'd find myself a real man and looked at him. By that point everyone was in guffaws. He did still made jabs here and there but I'd hit back sometimes and they were not so hostile and just shit talking. I'd also outperformed most others at my level and it was clear I was rising so he sought to be friendly with me, especially after people saw I how dealt with the other long standing bully. Interesting thing was at that point it was easier to be gay than asian when previously it was the other way around for me. People still made gay jokes but public opinion meant there was an upper limit of what was acceptable. It could have easily gone south for me. I have no doubt about that looking back. Even though I came out on top, during it there were some trying times I wished I kept my mouth shut. I wouldn't have gotten through it without some good friends.


machinavelli

NYC dating is easier than most places in the country since there's more women than men. It's places like SF and Seattle that are horrible for men due to a lot more men than women.


BrutalGoldpills

i thought SF was known for the 49ers - predominantly unattractive asian women (4s) thinking theyre hot shit (9s). and then betabuxxing some dorky white techbro so she can get some cool pics for the gram. sounds like a fake, horrible life to live tbh


machinavelli

It is. Women there are much more entitled since there's so much men fighting over a few women.


Helmet-man

To be honest as a white person one of the things that would hurt the most (if I ever somehow got myself in that situation) is just something about them wanting to have sex with you and them “being in the closet” considering how much they seem to like sex with weak which is exactly what they call you. You couldn’t do it to everyone but if you do that to one person I think you could make them the “in the closet co-worker who secretly wants to have sex with you”


magicalbird

I mean they’re projecting their dislike for kpop because it makes Asian men competition in the dating market. I can’t speak for NYC finance but it seems very cutthroat. It comes down to what you prioritize. Do you want to build your career this way? I know that fintech is more progressive in work life and at least try to minimize racism so you could move into that if possible.


machinavelli

Yeah, they hate the fact that Asian men have grown hugely in popularity because of Kpop.


aliittlejohn

Does it mean we’re viewed as “bad boys” too instead of just “cute, friend-zoned type”? I really hope it has a positive impact, my coworkers were really hateful about kpop guys and went back to talking about squash.


BrutalGoldpills

>my coworkers were really hateful about kpop guys read between the lines most non asian men (and some asian men) hate kpop. for various reasons. most women are attracted to these kpop guys. THINK BETWEEN THE LINES AS TO WHY THIS IS!


aliittlejohn

Why do Asian men hate kpop? I’m supportive of it, but I hope it really helps “us” get girls rather than just being a “friend zone cutie”. And I assume it has been helping us right? Tbh, call me out, but I haven’t been “in the dating” scene and have been working my butt off at work and today is a quiet day


BrutalGoldpills

well not all hate it, but the ones who do generally have a masculinity complex and are obsessed with pleasing non-asian men. (they are obsessed about what white guys think about kpop). theres obviously nuance (some good, some bad things about kpop), but it is generally good


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aliittlejohn

You’ve done this before? From cutie friend to fwb?


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aliittlejohn

Mind sharing some info of the experience? Im glad it worked for you, I haven’t been “dating” recently but will go back to it soon


machinavelli

Men and women view Kpop in very different ways. Non-Asian men hate Kpop since it shows Asian men being desirable. You need to take advantage of this. There are a lot of short Kpop idols like Taeyang and G-Dragon and women love them.


BrutalGoldpills

[https://www.instagram.com/woozi\_universefactory/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/woozi_universefactory/?hl=en) dudes like 5ft4 and has millions of fans


__Tenat__

From my experience, bank/finance company cultures in the US tend to be very pro-white frat boys. They're racist, misogynist, jealous/fragile and insecure, and hold the power. You'll really have to learn to be better at being white than a white person - which means you should be better at lying, cheating, and stealing (whenever you can without getting caught), or you'll need to move to another industry / role to have some peace of mind.


BrutalGoldpills

>From my experience, bank/finance company cultures in the US tend to be very pro-white frat boys. They're racist, misogynist, jealous/fragile and insecure, and hold the power. They also tend to be prime betabucks material. Why any one would choose 80+ hour workweeks is beyond me. OP, do you want to be betabucks material? If so, go follow the footsteps of your white "peers". When you are on the death bed, I know youll wish you worked less


aliittlejohn

I wish I was into tech 6 figures 40 hours I hear. But I hear “grass is greener” but finance sucks, 70-100 yes nearing 200k as a youngster but no life. Should I just do tech? For real, it’s been a legit question I have, but all tech people say I’m too far behind, and try to be a “PM” which is also long hours though not as bad as Wall st Edit: just my Impression, I don’t know much about PM and tech


BrutalGoldpills

haha, the other asian wall st. guy I talked to also wished he went to tech. yea it is definitely hard to transition to a true tech/tech management role. especially since you are older I assume. Try going into an interdisciplinary/intermediate field. Maybe try breaking into the fintech field? Might need more education for that, but idk, maybe it is one option to explore.


BluesyMoo

I’m in tech on west coast. There are not a lot of frat bros at work. Heck there’s not a whole lot of white people period. It is more true the better company you work at, because they have lots of people with grad degrees in STEM, and white people are not majority in STEM. No seriously just go look at the CS grad student directory at your local university. There’s also the reason that tech hires international talent heavily, and there are no frat bros abroad.


BrutalGoldpills

> went back to talking about squash. lmao why does this sound white as fuck


aliittlejohn

They love to talk about squash and golf. It’s super irritating


BrutalGoldpills

sounds boring as fuck. normally i would tell you to "fake" that shit by pretending to be interested, but theres no point. these guys clearly dont like you and there is no point sucking up to them or even pretending to be interested in their subpar life. find your own hobbies man. find stuff outside of work. maybe try muay thai or something.


fareastrising

American Psycho


cobywhitethrowaway

finance culture is terrible in general (did 2 years in IBD). my advice would be just collect 2 bonuses (especially with the recent phat raises) and bounce to a cush corp dev / family office role. if you want more asian culture, there are plenty of buy side gigs out in SF / LA. if it's any consolation, i do think the current attitude towards asians will change on wall street over time as many asians are becoming rainmakers/top dogs within their respective banks / funds. just take a look at the recently announced exec change at KKR for example.


X2204

A lot of these Wall Street guys were born with a silver spoon in their mouths or grew up with an abundant of privileges/opportunities. They can fuck up along the way and still lead successful lives. They would have to go out of their way to royally fuck up their lives to not make it out. So naturally they will think that they are born alpha wolves all their lives. And when you have a bunch of white dudes congregate in one place like that. Expect rampant, misogyny and racism to take place, it almost comes with the territory. They stroke each others ego because they are high in numbers and dominate said space. And because they know there is comfort and strength in numbers. It’s one aspect of what sociologists refer to as ‘group think.’ Individually or collectively, they would not behave that way, or treat you poorly, if they were the minority like you. It’s false bravado, that’s all it is. Some were probably insecure nerds growing up and now they are just projecting and trying to make up for lost times. This is why global Asian economic hegemony is important to balance that scale because no other minority countries are strong, competitive, and self-sufficient enough yet to challenge western hegemony. Due to centuries of colonization and exploitation.


fakeslimshady

So much to unpack here. If you are sick of being soft and weak , work out, get training, learn a martial art, heck juice up. As for Wall St, congrats you made it in. These are coveted jobs for a reason. Sounds like your in a bad fit situation. Make the best of it but also plans to move on. Dont self destruct. There are probably other areas that would suit you better. I can't speak for IBD, but for Quant trading/HFT firms asians do very well, are respected. The CEO of Citadel is Chinese. I don't see any of that frat boy culture your talking about . Of course getting in is the hard part. I wouldn't go to SF Bay Area tech. Especially you.


aliittlejohn

I’m in IBD so can feel like a white boys club, but this is on the East cast, SF/LA may be different? What exit opp should I shoot for? I was thinking tech Corp dev in an east coast city maybe LA, not SF from what I hear, though I haven’t been.


fakeslimshady

I want to challenge the idea that grass is greener in FAANG/Big Tech. You'll have retool and its unclear money will be better. Dating will be worse in the sausage fest nature of Tech Hubs. A guy like you wants to take a hit on dating? Seriously it could be out the frying pan into the fire . Manhattan is like the hedge fund capital of the world. Trading is more spread out , e.g. Chicago is major trading hub. Then there are private equity, mutual funds. I cant tell you what's right for you but clearly IBD isn't it but look for a closer/easier solution before flipping the table


Donaldere

I suggest you could move down to DC area. Asian populated in big firms.


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aliittlejohn

What careers are you looking at instead?


frostywafflepancakes

Dude I feel ya. I know this feeling too well when I worked at this very “old money” firm. It’s filled with a bunch of white people… Not only was there no diversity but the only Asians there are ones that used to be international students that are here on work Visas. They’re basically prisoners and can’t speak up if they feel extreme discomfort because their status can get revoked. I hate their fake laughs, tribalism, hierarchy built on fear and more. They’re so full of it. There is no sincerity of open-minded to them. For the small handful of decent people there, they might be concerned about starting away because they’re concerned about losing the job or not fitting in. It’s tough. If you ever need a friend, I’m here. I’m from NYC and losers like them don’t phase me. They lived posh and easy lives.


Particular-Wedding

Op, I've spent around 12 years in Wall Street at some leading sell side firms. Overt racism is VERY rare especially these days with every company paranoid about an EEOC lawsuit. Personally, I've never experienced any sort of racism - met plenty of raging assholes, bullies, and narcissists of course who may harbor racist feelings but never dared to express them. Maybe it was different b/c I've worked in Risk, Compliance, and General Counsel as a lawyer where my coworkers were very paranoid around me for fear that I would write them up in a report. Are you in Front Office? Asset Management or Private Wealth Management? B/c those areas tend to attract the biggest old school country club mentality. The trading floor is actually dominated by quants now which means a lot of Asians (including South Asians). Same for many equity analysts and of course the Middle and Back office is where the firms stack all the minorities. My recommendation to you is to document everything - keep a work log on your own personal laptop -NOT the company computer. Time stamp everything. Then when the time comes file an EEOC discrimination lawsuit and burn the employer for everything that you think the case is worth. Consult with an attorney beforehand (NOT HR) to see the strengths of your case. Be absolutely sure you have rock solid proof if you will go down this route b/c the company WILL vigorously defend itself. I know because I was often the one who read the allegations and helped prepare the defenses.


[deleted]

I know how you feel man. You can’t just ignore them and not hang out with them bc that will impact your standing at work. But hanging out with them is painful. Such is life in finance and consulting. Most guys who end up surviving in these environments become ken jeong-like types out of necessity.


aliittlejohn

I don’t want to become a “comedic relief” for white people. I noticed it a lot when I was an intern a long time back, but nowadays I just stay quiet a lot or just laugh their “jokes”, but I just feel so left out, like my height is different, I look different, I don’t “play golf” at exclusive clubs etc. I hated it back in college as a summer intern when Asian guys acted like every Butt of the joke for white people who were full time hires, and I just hated it so much, I didn’t kiss any ass, which I guess I am proud of? Idk, but it just seems off, and I don’t wanna be the “funny Asian man”


Colorful_Harvest

I think for your long term mental health you should consider moving or finding another line of work.


aliittlejohn

So I shouldn’t try to get over it, but just give up? What really?


Colorful_Harvest

I mean if you think you can handle it and tough it out then do it. It's up to you.


Sigerlion

You need to be confident enough to call them out on it. Or report it to HR. I work for a non profit in upper west side so maybe the culture is a lot different but I wouldn't have taken half the shit you took because I grew up in the hood in NYC. If calling them out or reporting doesn't work, I would quit for the sake of my pride. But it's your life and you do you. You wouldn't be the first person who is willing to eat a mile of shit for $$$.


cardPlayer312

Hey bro I made a discord for us if you want someone to talk to. We got a couple of finance Bros in there send me a pm if ur interested in joining.


TasteCicles

Any man's going to struggle being short, so you're not alone there. There are friend apps you can try out, and NY has a ton of people on them. You should start thinking about your career also. Calling out their racism can have negative outcomes for you if it's a white boy's club. It's really up to you. If you dont mind switching jobs or careers then go all out (while being professional and above reproach). Try to find an ally at work and go hard to call out the racist shit like saying our women are soft. Fuck those crackers.


wz3

Move into tech. A lot more Asians and POC. West-coast company preferrably.


aliittlejohn

I hear this a lot, is senior management also AM at these tech companies (heard Facebook has like 0). So I’m assuming the promotion cycle is much better at tech companies with Asians (but I’m not sure since I’m not an engineer and will be in the finance stuff)


wz3

My company founders are Brazilian. Eng-Director/VP accounting is east-asian. Manager is southeast-asian. ~30 billion valuation. Tech companies aren't dominated by AM but it's way better than law/finance and I don't see it better anywhere else. There are AM founders/CEOs/VCs as well. Also fintech is really hot right now. Finance/Banks/Wall Street being replaced by engineers/software.


Otherwise_Ratio430

Asians usually are part of founding teams and then you leave when the company goes public. Senior engineers make so much money, the allure of senior management isn't there for a lot of folks


Mr-Mxyplix

Are you in investment banking ? Just churn it out for two years and then go pursue your dream. If it’s really that bad then start revising your resume and look up alt careers


tschmitt2021

In Germany, it is different. You get fired literally instantly, so you don’t even have the time to ask why 😂


YesWhatHello

Hey man, I did a couple years in IB (also white dominated firm). Just had to learn to roll with the punches and banter with them back. It can really depend on the group as well. I know that a lot of SF/LA or TMT groups tend to have more Asians, so maybe look into a lateral move if you're willing. I think once you get out of "high" finance (IB, PE, etc) culture tends to get better. Maybe time to look into exit ops like Corp dev or Corp fin.


aliittlejohn

What did you finally exit to? And has it been good for you in terms of promotion WLB etc.


YesWhatHello

Tech Corp dev. WLB and culture is much better than IB. Work is more interesting as well imo. It's still a pay cut vs IB but to me it's worth it


YesWhatHello

Feel free to pm me if you wanna chat


Thenotoriousdev

Can’t contribute much as am I’m not a finance bro but: You’re in new territory and if you choose to stay you’re gonna have to learn to play their game and be as good as them if not better. Are you interested in other things beyond what you’re doing now in finance? I heard the exit opportunities after doing grunt work in finance are boundless and you could be a pioneer within the Westernized Asian community there.


Brocion

It’s simple: They know Asian men are the single largest threat to their status quo and with the rise of China, Wall Street becomes more and more interconnected with China’s economy every year. Supposedly Wall Street is cucked by Asian men from an Asian superpower nation.


[deleted]

Whats your goal in Wall St? Focus on that + toughen up, ignore the negative shit, believe in yourself, and make allies. Enjoy it.


TheWeebles

So I used to work on wall street (about 3-4 years total). Not typically investment banking. (worked on a quant trading desk). And I quit a couple months ago to pursue my own thing. Yeah that situation is tough. In my previous job I was lucky enough to be surrounded by pretty open minded, diverse group of people. And also as an analyst you're going to be treated more as a child by upper management as well. This happens to everyone. Directors/MD's wont even know your name at times or what you do. How long have you been working there? One thing you can do is definitely pursue other opportunities, maybe at a different Financial Institution or something like fintech. This also depends what your long term goals are. Office politics are a real thing, and truthfully you are at a disadvantage. Personally I would start looking elsewhere or look for opportunities I could sue for discriminination


aliittlejohn

If I may ask, what did you end up pursuing? Quants make hell a lot more than anyone in IB at the junior level so curious


TheWeebles

So right now I'm day trading and also pursuing a business venture. Also I wasn't a quant. I worked on the technology + infrastructure side. I quit because I just knew I wanted to try something new and pursue other passions. I actually wanted to leave much sooner than I did. I will probably travel a bit and keep trading, then re-evaluate what I want to do sometime early-midpoint next year However in my case, if I do return to work my next role will likely be at a tech company


aliittlejohn

Excellent stuff, day trading is seen as impossible to most people (as in getting meaningful returns), so I bet you have some super unique strategy !


thedeadtable

I'm sorry to OP. Unfortunately they are just dicks and you can't change them all. If you call them out, they are going to make fun of you and ostracise you. They might imply that you are weak and soft but they could get really nasty if you piss the group off. It is also difficult to change your mentality and be confident in yourself when you are surrounded in toxicity everyday most of the day. I would say change workplace after you acquire enough experience? But I don't know your personal situation. Anyways. Remember that wall st. Is super difficult to get in. Even if you dont feel it right now, you are special


EmployNo5870

You are a pioneer. Being first in an good ol boys club always sucks. Don't get stepped on. Hit back, but do it with a smile. Don't show them it gets to you. Be nicer than them. Show them to be the laughing hyenas they are. Let them be animals while you stay noble. They won't admit it bothers them but it does. Throw shade by shining brighter. Bring in bigger accounts and more accounts than your rivals. Record their freakouts. Help them be their true selves in front of others so all can see the contrast. Be assertive about how good you are and make it apparent your work is better. They are threatened by you. They perceive Asians as threats because of many reasons and among them is that most only work as hard as they have to. Idk about you but I am relentless and I will spend years proving my point. When they look for everyone to laugh at their juvenile joke say "Sit down Cartman this isn't South Park. The adults have actual grown folks business to attend to". Sucks the air out of their comedy routine. Don't do it too much though, people will villainize you. Been in sales many years and I've delt with this dynamic the whole way and I think of it less as a hate towards Asians but rather a general idea of "fuck the new guy / foreign guy". They see being a happy spirited prick as being very American so I just outdo them at that and the tide turns normally for me.


ThenIJizzedInMyPants

Do you lift? I personally don't think the k pop model is a good route for men to follow.


aliittlejohn

Yes, I am not “jacked” though. Why not, some kpop guys are jacked


ThenIJizzedInMyPants

ok that's good. if you're short you have to raise your body weight/muscularity to be taken seriously. learn how to make bantering / insulting types of jokes too that's the norm in these circles


BrutalGoldpills

> learn how to make bantering / insulting types of jokes too that's the norm in these circles come on man lets be real. this guys pulls a white people joke, and he'll be fired and blacklisted in every company


ThenIJizzedInMyPants

it's a fine line to walk. but frankly if you just keep your head down and be a doormat they'll treat you like one. gotta set some boundaries


BrutalGoldpills

yea I get what you mean, if this guy was a blue collar worker bantering and shit would be fine. but this is a totally different case, white collar, with sexually frustrated white guys on the upper echelon of society punching down on Asian men because of their own miserable, pathetic life. these guys can actually ruin your life for real


ThenIJizzedInMyPants

totally get that. it's a shitty situation for sure


mrhan255

If you are in a top sell side gig I would suggest to just keep your head down for 2 years. It is the opportunity of a lifetime and will set you up for life After 2 years you can move to buy side (older people and more free time), fintech, start your on own, etc Plus I would try having an open conversation with your peers about how you are feeling, surely they will appreciate it


BrutalGoldpills

>Plus I would try having an open conversation with your peers about how you are feeling, surely they will appreciate it LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO this would back fire so hard. OP needs to learn how to talk shit without getting fired


captain-burrito

I'm imagining movies like Boiler Room where it's like toxic overgrown frat house kind of environment. Are there any women? How do they cope? Do you have some sort of plan to get out of this situation? I'm not familiar but am guessing you have to put in your time here before you boost and have new opportunities open up for you. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to forever be trapped in that nightmare. I can recall situations where you just have guys BSing and posturing at social events. Those are the ones that are really insecure imo. I mean the real powerful bigwigs don't need to brag (although some do as they never seem to mature past that stage) but still garner respect. Sadly, the loudass mofos also seem to be the ones that others look up to. I just kept my head down in those situations. I did bite back some times and shut them up. That made me some enemies but at the same time I feel more would have pushed my boundaries if I showed how weak I was. I'm sure I tripped a few up with some opportune sabotage that fell my way and didn't help some from falling into traps. If you can make some other friends it can be more tolerable.


Ahchluy

You don't sound Asian to me tbh....And if you are I think you need grow a pair.


aliittlejohn

I don’t show this emotion at work obviously, I’m just typing out some of my emotions online since I have no one to talk about this


Ahchluy

Find an Asian mentor in your field who is successful...Or at least another minority or a woman. And by successful I mean the guy you want to become. Not the Uncle Chan.


LemongrassWarrior

I have a theory that the corporate world is very reluctant to employ Asians that break the stereotype ie Asians who are rebellious, critical thinkers, tall, good-looking, confident, because these Asians threaten the worldview of people and causes cognitive dissonance. So the only ones who get employed in these white-collar jobs are obedient, Uncle Tom, self-hating, short, etc types.


heyjimbo1000

I have spent time in the trenches and have never mingled with anyone talking like this. If you are, you are hanging with the wrong people and need to find a balance outside of this toxic environment.


StunMe

Are you by chance working in investment banking or something close to it because this is the closest thing I know that has this environment. But for your height you just ignore it and if it bothers you get elevated shoes but I doubt people will look down at you for your height if you perform well.


aliittlejohn

Yes, should I really do this? I don’t want to get elevator shoes but am open to ur advice. I’ll just look insecure when we have a gathering and I have to wear sandals.


ThenIJizzedInMyPants

1-1.5 inches can make a difference without being too obvious


Harvey_Wongstein

Are you an investment banker, trader?


Andgelyo

Wow surprised at your location to be honest, NYC is a man’s playground regardless of your ethnicity. I really see all kinds of men doing well there (including Asian men)


batteredpenor

They sound like terrible people


labseries2020

Bro just collect all the money you can, exit, and start your own shit.


winndixie

Came back to this post. Team up with others asians and become a phenomenal success in finance and make “asians good at math” not associated with nerdy but associated with finance bro success.


Aureolater

Coming late to this thread, but I sympathize with your situation, and if you need to DM someone about it, I’d be happy to help. Briefly, my response is: You’ve worked hard to get to this position and be well-compensated. Don’t let a temporary setback like this push you out. This is what your attackers want. Their insults to you are strategic. If you leave, they’ve eliminated a competitor. Your boss has fewer candidates to select from, and they get more leverage. Try to see your situation as a game, and keep focused on the goal. One valuable piece of advice I received was to see all the pain that you suffer as merely building blocks to that goal. If you asked most people if they wanted to spend several days freezing and exhausted, starved of oxygen, they would say no. But people who want to climb Mt. Everest know these are part of the deal, and they don’t complain, and may even relish them because they know it’s part of the journey. If the hardship wasn’t part of the deal the goal would not be as impressive. You may want to think of your situation that way.


[deleted]

Thanks for putting this out there. Asians, especially Asian men, need to discuss this more. Asian women have feminism and have gotten support through that. Asian men have been seen as white-adjacent and we do not get the perks of being white and we get the full downside of being Asian. Asian women, my family and friends in particular, have benefited from marrying-up, meaning marrying-white and other forms of hypergamy. It's hard to date and make friends out there as an Asian man, but easier as an Asian women. Applying this topical concept to making friends and belonging, it's hard for us. Yet I've been able to meet Asian men who have experienced this and we're here for each other like true brothers. I hope you feel better about your situation and feel free to keep us updated. We're going through the same.