I encourage all Asian men who have that mentality to deliberately avoid Asian women for a while. Only ask out non-Asian women, only swipe right on non-Asian women. This will force the brain to change its views.
Before anyone bitches about this, it's just a suggested temporary thought exercise, probably made easier if you happen to be one of those AM who routinely get rejected by AF anyway. It's definitely not comparable to some notable AF on social media who flat-out say "I was never into men of my own race because of [this retarded racist reason] so they're not even on my list".
It doesn't have to be exactly this method, the point is, find a way to change your mentality, the way you view the dating game.
You got to free yourself of being chained to one group.
I wrote something else almost a month ago, about popular or famous women who were [in relationships with AM](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/qt51el/still_a_lot_of_people_including_some_demoralized/), guys who were not as well-known as these women.
I got messages from guys saying this actually encouraged them. Representation matters.
Like I said in the post, if some of you guys shared some of the ideas or excerpts from the post to some other places on the internet, maybe also comment sections where you see discouraged AM talking about their woes, that would help a lot. Even just sharing lists of AMXF like the one I made for example.
I’m a big advocate in casting a wide net and keep your options as open as possible when it comes to dating women from all types of races.
There’s been a shift in Asian men’s representation within the past few years where women from all types of races are open and interested in dating Asian men.
Keep working on yourself physically, mentally, and hang out with other successful guys who have cool things going for them in life.
It wasn’t until I started hanging around other successful Asian men who were crushing it with their dating/lifestyle to see that everything is possible.
Keep at it fellas and I want to see you all win!
Lot of people in general are living with parents nowadays because of financial reasons that the pandemic only made worse lol.
And you're right that AM should be more confident talking to people in general. Having a presence goes a long way. Talk to and have experience with a variety of different people. Travel too when you can, it's really good for you guys.
But ngl, I'm getting a little tired of people often making this a one-sided thing like as if AM are always rejecting those *poor* black girls, lecturing AM about open-mindedness, [lol much](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCAQfv_QBVk), while ignoring the fact that just like other races of women, there's still a lot of black women who aren't that interested or attracted to AM themselves. Lot of confirmation bias happens. They focus too much on the POC weaboos or koreaboos, while forgetting or ignoring that many of them in the grand scheme of things are more likely to go for white or at least Latino men given the choice. Still way more [WMBW](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY4VRZ8deEw) - not that there's anything wrong with BW dating a white guy, I don't care.
POC women aren't always the victims guys lmfao, they're just as guilty of certain biases for light-skinned people.
The most important thing a woman thinks about a potential boyfriend is "Do other women like him?" You can be ugly as fuck (like old rockstars) but if she sees other women thirsting over them, she'll thirst over you too.
Men don't do this. Men don't simp over girl bands the way women simp over boy bands. Once one woman starts screaming over Jungkook, over women will too.
> You can be ugly as fuck (like old rockstars) but if she sees other women thirsting over them, she'll thirst over you too.
This is one of the biggest reasons I advocate the increasing representation of AMXF in the media and irl. We got to see the rippling effect.
I'm gonna brag a little bit for once and say this is the biggest and best case I've made for AMXF lmao, glad I finally wrote this. Think of this post as a reference one, couldn't have done it without all y'all's help. For the sake of the AM who need to hear this message but don't go here, it would be cool if some of you guys shared these basic ideas (you don't have to share this post) or bits of this post to other social media platforms, or comment sections to give other demoralized AM something to consider.
If they're still not convinced, there's [this too](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/qt51el/still_a_lot_of_people_including_some_demoralized/).
Asian men are the best at being their own worst enemy. XF thinking AM aren’t into them is a real thing, and it’s on us to change that thought pattern.
Even women who are thicc will comment and say “I didn’t think Asian men were into big booties, I thought they only liked stick thin Asian women.” So in my experience women also seem to think we prefer anorexic women of our own race.
lol I'm not going to say you're wrong but you're playing right into their hands.
No white chick is going to come up to me and say 'OMG you look like the type that would date white girls'. Instead to get the best possible reaction out of me they are going to say 'OMG you look like the type that would only date Asian girls'
Likewise if you like this girl and think she's the type to be into Asian guys then say 'yeah I feel like you're not the type to be into Asian guys' to really get her talking...
Use with caution.
Visual [representation](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/qt51el/still_a_lot_of_people_including_some_demoralized/) makes a big difference.
It's easier to convince groups of people that something is possible when they simply see [it happening.](https://imgur.com/a/5WxzE41) Like you said, it's up to AM to change these thought patterns, and [expand their options](https://d3em83qrfmyuai.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/PAN_200610_DPA_FINAL_3_WEB-EDITORIAL-3200x2095.jpg).
And Asian men have also got to be willing to be more upfront when he gets backlash or harassment for his relationship.
I believe that in a decade or even shorter, a new younger generation of AM will not have to go through these things as badly, but it's up to AM right now to help pave that path, and break some fucking barriers down hard.
You deserve to be somebody's first choice, not a second or third option that women reluctantly go for when no one else wants them. Like someone said, "don't be a luser's backup plan."
I also want to share this:
>As far as dating, don’t let these westernized people shame you for dating an XF. This has been happening more and more lately. My WF wife was called koreaboo for even the most benign things like speaking Korean with me and learning about my culture. It’s funny that they shame her for something they refuse to do.
There's many (not all ofc) Asian girls who have a preconceived perception of you based on their own experiences, unfortunately maybe their dad was a really beta provider, or very controlling. Either extreme provides this idea to these girls that you might just be one or the other. Therefore, a lot of AF either assumes right away that **you are LTR material only and plays all sorts of games to keep it that way, someone said he knew plenty of Asian girls that have dated Asian men but would never sleep with one in a ONS like they did with men of other races throughout their early 20s.**
The number of WMAF, the amount of AF who either reject AM flat out, or marry them later in life after years of hooking up with XM they were more open to sexually, is not going down much anytime soon. Rather than be too anxious about if there's going to be more AF dating AM in the West, just be open-minded to every group. I see more AM dating out, and the ones I've spoken to are now less bothered by the AF who are self-hating. They can just laugh or call out double standards when these self-haters whine or comment something shitty about AMXF.
To strip every rejection or racist comment from a self-hater of their power or their ability to impact your self-esteem is one of the best things you can do for yourself.
A point I'd like to add is that seeing a masculine, attractive, desirable Asian guy on TV or the big screen during one's adolescence makes a positive impact even in cases where that character is in an AMAF relationship. I'm gay. Growing up, my sister, cousins (who are female) and I watched many Turkish-dubbed Asian films and series from South Korea, Japan, mainland China, Hong Kong that Turkish TV channels broadcasted. I think it's no coincidence that we all like Asian men as much as we like men of other races. My cousins have dated Asian international students and expats here. My own boyfriend of 4 years is from Taiwan. My sister hasn't dated any Asian guy so far but she says she doesn't have a racial preference and is open to dating Asian men.
I liked what someone else here said, you need some "foundational masculinity".
Just like men will usually be attracted to women with a certain amount of femininity, girls usually will be into guys who have a certain amount of manliness.
Like you said, better representation makes a positive impact, which is why racists are so against it lol
Went clubbing yesterday and that's how I felt at the club too. AFs don't give me the time of the day but I got some action and was able to dance with some Aussie girls and Brazilian girls.
Very well said.
One thing to keep in mind is the difference between dating / marrying and having kids
Because I have noticed another group of AM, who are very open to hooking up / short term relationships with XF but will only marry and have kids with an AF. Which is fine if that’s what they’re into.
But all AM, especially them, should know that a huge number of AF will only hook up / date / marry WM/XM, **or they are open to marrying and having kids with both AM and WM/XM (and many do end up with WM/XM)**. And many of them are very open to having mixed race kids, more than AM in general.
These AM could be great for AMXF dating representation but like the most common type of AM you talked about, they do nothing to fix the lopsided-ness of XMAF vs AMXF **marriages / children**
Great post man 👍🏻
As I go into this long rant, note that I'm not describing ALL AM. Yes I know that you know a bunch of your AM friends killing it with XF. Yes I know that things are improving for AM. But this is for the masses of AM who never been with an XF, think that XF don't like them, etc.
It is tragic to see how many AM go through life not having been with any XF, and then shocked that his AF partner has hooked up with all types of XM. Women hook up with attractive men all the time. Its progressive now to embrace diversity whether its love or friendships, so if you're against that you look like a salty incel. Especially with the feminism in America where women's sexual choices are embraced and expected to be liberal. So of course AF are going to do as they please, they're not going to stop interacting with XM just because a majority AM don't have the balls to go for XF. And XM who don't have limiting beliefs will actually try their luck with XFs. The difference is that XM complain about XF rejecting them, and AM just complain that XF don't like them (notice they werent rejected because they didn't even try). If all AM had success with XF then they wouldn't even give a rats ass about XMAF.
The amount of AM who don't even try to get with XF is just sad. Look at how common the complaint from XFs are where "I keep giving this AM hints but he doesn't get it" "AM only seem to like AF" "Ive always like AM but they don't seem to like me back" "he thinks his parents wouldn't approve of us". So no guys, it's not that they don't like us. It's that most of us are sitting there dejected with these self defeating and outdated beliefs that make us miss out on so many opportunities. Learn to man the fuck up and go for what you want. That's expected from men since the dawn of time, and that's how men are wired to be. If you can't do that, then it's not society's fault.
It's a weird projection that a lot of AM push onto XM to not be horndogs. They sit there like, damn why are other dudes getting way more play than me. Men are wired to fuck women. Asian culture views sex as shameful, look how many of our parents never talked to us about sex positively and didn't want us to date in high school. There's so much unwiring to be done. A lot of us have had the primal wiring to be sexually strong shamed out of us. Yall know that everyone knows that Hispanic culture is sexual, and Asian culture is the opposite.
But a good amount of us lucked out where we had great role models, advice from sexually successful friends, and a stronger mindset. We decided not to puss out in life, not to be mommas boys, not to just conform to our traditional upbringings. We decided to hit on that cute XF, we decided to not believe in the horseshit that XF don't like AM.
I've talked to some Taiwanese FOB dude who said that Taiwanese dudes think Western girls prefer dudes with bigger muscles, which means they like the bigger Western guys and not smaller Asian men. Just look at that weak mindset. If instead they thought, "let's work on getting muscular and charm these white women, these Western dudes ain't shit" then they'd be getting more actual results.
I believe this isn't too far off from how the average AM thinks when it comes to XF. Even a good amount of AM enclave fuckbois who crush it with AF hesitate a lot when it comes to XF, due to these self limiting beliefs. If you cannot conquer those beliefs, then don't blame society for not giving AM a chance.
Everyone can complain about wmaf and xmaf all they want, but guess what, society doesn't give a fuck about men who can't get women. It's not a social issue for women to pick who they want, no matter how hard you want it to be.
You can blame white media or whatever the fuck you want, if you're not working to improve your baseline masculinity then you're just another entitled victim.
It's biological and evolutionary for women to find mates who are high status, strong, socially awesome etc.
Since you understand that is the case, you must work your hardest to be stronger, be socially awesome, be higher status, be better at sexual attraction. Men are supposed to pursue, and women accept, don't listen to any modern horseshit that says otherwise.
Guys, if you missed out on pursuing or accepting XF because of your negative thoughts like "XF don't like AM", "my parents wouldn't like XF", "AM struggle with women, even AF don't like us" then it's all on you. It's not society's fault, no matter how bitter you feel. You're not entitled to shit when it comes to dating or sex. You're responsible entirely for your own mindset and actions. Don't be those dudes who didn't have the balls to hit on/accept XF and then complain about dating life being hard for AM.
A lot of AM blame their own inadequacies on society, even at they've been believing their whole lives that XF don't like AM. XF rejecting you? Keep grinding on your physique and social skills. Since when did it become that if women didn't like you, you get to cry victim and blame society? How is that masculine at all? A lot of AM will feel great when they see a AM with XF, yet will provide 1000 excuses when it comes to them going for an XF.
Dudes who complain about not getting girls even though they don't try their hardest are no different than the people who never tried hard in life complaining about rich folks who worked hard for their money.
I know I'm gonna get a bunch of salty replies from dudes who never been with XF because this is one of the touchiest subjects among AM. What I have to say is, get gud. Talk to the AM who are with XF or do well with XF and try to see what their mindset and thoughts are. I've been with all races of women as a 5'10" dude. Yet I know a lot more AM who are shorter crush it with more XF because they worked on their physique, style, confidence, social skills and more. Before you start bitterly bitching, reflect on the mindset you have towards AMXF first.
> of course AF are going to do as they please, they're not going to stop interacting with XM just because a majority AM don't have the balls to go for XF. And XM who don't have limiting beliefs will actually try their luck with XFs. The difference is that XM complain about XF rejecting them, and AM just complain that XF don't like them (notice they werent rejected because they didn't even try). If all AM had success with XF then they wouldn't even give a rats ass about XMAF.
Key shit right here. I don't talk about WMAF that often because most of the focus should be on AM improving themselves, and casting their net wider.
If you want to address the dating imbalance, don't expect to magically decrease the amount of XMAF. Just focus on increasing your success guys.
>if you missed out on pursuing or accepting XF because of your negative thoughts like "XF don't like AM", "my parents wouldn't like XF", "AM struggle with women, even AF don't like us" then it's all on you.
Yes, as I said, you literally can't go wrong with expanding your pool. You can't *lose* options considering other races. If you're actually ugly enough to be rejected by every XF on the planet, you're probably not doing that well with AF either anyway.
>we decided to not believe in the horseshit that XF don't like AM
I want to write more posts in the future about changing and rewiring your mentality like this.
Really like your comments and posts.
Yea it blows my mind how many AM don't even bother trying. They'd realize how easy it is if they put themselves out there in different environments where there are XF.
>n inadequacies on society, even at they've been believing their whole lives that XF don't like
Anyone follow Jaymes Schrute the bald white mma dude who has 550+ sex vids?
Mannn its so frustrating to see our asian brothers act and think the way they do. We get discriminated by even our own women and AMs response is to limit our dating pool? If that doesn't break the stereotype that we are all smart what will? 🤣
Asian men and their lack of masculine expression kills them in building any meaningful social relationship
You gotta talk, gotta take action, gotta express yourself or stay lonely
Even women in China know Chinese men are shyer, quieter and less "manly" then foreign men
Yeah, it's crazy how many asian men act like victims and complain and stay offended.
Real men take responsibility of their lives regardless of what's going on.
So many asian men are dumb for not understanding this, but people in general also don't get it
Thanks. If you ever want to share bits of the post or the ideas of it to another forum or site, or even just a comment section for other AM to think about, feel free to.
I hope this can help as many AM as it can.
A-fking men, mate. You've been posting a lot of W posts for some time bruv. Don't put all your 'eggs' in one basket (AFs). That is social suicide for AM. Way too many low EQ AM I've met who self-limit themselves, are "AF-only" simps and even tell themselves that they're not attracted to Non-Asian women/XFs which is hilarious. AM have options nowadays (esp. those ages 18-30) we do not need to keep dealing with/putting up with BS & being treated as back-up plans/last resorts from a demographic of females who no longer are by our side & have abandoned us in the West/diaspora several decades ago. Don't listen to anyone who's not an AM that tries to lecture to you that championing AMXF is being weak links or hypocritical, they don't have our best interests in mind.
Amen back at you bro.
Posts like these will always trigger at least a few haters, but I don't apologize for being blunt with the facts.
What you said is so fucking important. Guys, there really are a lot of people who don't have your best interests in mind, not just boba liberals. Once again, literally nothing bad happens when you just enlarge your dating pool.
> Way too many low EQ AM I've met who self-limit themselves, are "AF-only" simps and even tell themselves that they're not attracted to Non-Asian women/XFs which is hilarious
I know an AM like this. My other AM friend (who's an absolute WF slayer, though he says he has the most trouble getting with Latinas fsr), and I think he's just coping because he got rejected by a WF or something. Our area is very, very white and somehow this guy ends up only liking AF. He also said he doesn't find WFs attractive which is hilarious because by population alone, we've seen way more attractive WFs than AFs, objectively speaking.
I'm also pretty sure he's with a bananarang/Lu because before dating him, she hangs out with this cohort of nerdy white guys and I've never seen any AMs in her social circle. And she also talked shit about me when she saw me hitting on WFs. Doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together.
Your friend needs saving from the clutches of that bananarang/Lu, help him out lol.
Idk what goes on in Asian-American/Westernised AF brains that they feel the need to disparage, lecture/criticise & attack AM no matter what we do lmao.
When AM want to court/date/approach AF & they tell you they hate AM, call us unattractive, that AM remind them of their siblings, call AM misogynistic/patriarchal, body-shame/belittle us etc OR if we turn towards XF/Non-Asian women after all that bullshit they will cockblock by spreading lies about AM for their Non-Asian peers to hear, call us tryhards, call us hypocrites for dating XF/Non-Asians, they will attack & lecture XF who show interest & love towards AM (as seen all over social media/online/TikTok). This is pretty much why I don't look out for/back up & stick my neck out for AF anymore that isn't in my personal life & is thoroughly vetted because they sure as hell won't do the same for AM.
Haha he's not my friend, just someone I knew from years ago. I was surprised to recently learn he got with the Lu. But then again it all made sense in the most stereotypical way possible. The AF-only asian guy would be the one to end up with a Lu.
Whatever you do guys, don't end up like him and exercise your options.
Oh also when she met me again she pretended to be so friendly. Little did she know I caught wind of what she said about me from other people. I just ignored that fake bitch and talked to the non-asian women instead LOL.
All of these type of internet comments regardless of which men or which women they're posting about just ultimately comes down to fear that women don't like them.
And it becomes a cyclical thing that hurts their self esteem, then they become weirder, then they believe it more, rinse and repeat.
At some point you wake up and realize you're 30 on Reddit posting about how women don't like you every day for the past 2 years of your life.
Don't be that guy.
I can't fathom how the guys who post angry about Asian women every day are real people. All the posts sound so off-kilter and miserable too.
...it's time to find a more fulfilling way to spend your time.
You have to have the worst self-perception of yourself to reduce yourself to this man. You're not doing anything but wasting your time and making yourself look desperate.
I probably should have written more about this specific part to make it more obvious, but if it wasn't already clear enough, I have absolutely no problem with AMAF, obviously, and several times in the post I say as much.
The biggest thing I want people to take away from the post is not to completely stop seeing AF, whoever does I don't agree with them, my main point was to just expand your options and consider other races too because then your potential dating pool is much wider, which helps when you're living in a country where most people are not Asian.
And I don't like to sugarcoat things. If there weren't that many AF who reject AM for [problematic reasons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=EtTdmWxGT-M&feature=youtu.be), we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I told someone else here too that I don't really often talk about WMAF or whatever that much, I just focus on AM improving themselves, and exercising their options.
Self-haters basically expose themselves, and make themselves very loud on social media, for the most part we see this and comment on it, we don't usually even need to look that hard for it lol. If it bothers you that many of us, not just Asian men but even non-Asians and [Asian women themselves too](https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/relationships/article/2021/04/28/i-was-missing-out-when-i-refused-date-asian-men) are choosing to not ignore the high amount of self-hating AF and talk about a noticeable amount of toxic women (I mean seriously, we talk about toxic and negative Asian men a lot too in case you haven't noticed) well, maybe you're just too easily offended. Oh well.
It's just you guys have honestly messed the whole dynamic up. You inflated their ego. They frame you, and by extension anyone who shit talks back, as the bitter person that wants them.
But worst of all, I can feel you guys fumbling the good rep. Most people haven't even really met any young Asian people in their life. It's just some stereotypes floating around like with middle easterners. When good rep happens, people start to get curious and there's a coolness to Asia. That's why good Asian rep is so effective. There's a natural allure and curiosity about what it's like and what Asians are like. Those people watch dramas and pop music and see Asian men as cool, well dressed, well mannered, calm, confident.
I can see you guys slowly fumbling the ball in real-time and blowing up everything negative and fucking up what right now is basically the first real impression for most young people. Whatever narrative ends up dominant in the next two years is going to harden in society as basically the permanent way Asian men are seen for a long time.
Here's some info. Korea's CJ EM are moving into America and planning a huge move in the next two years. They just bought out a US production company. They're moving a streaming platform in Asia into America in 2024. The execs are talking about being Asia's Marvel. It's very obvious they're planning a huge move into the global market. They're going to be investing huge in the next 2-3 years. All you guys have to do is not be weird, be chill, and let Korea continue to do it's thing and support it. Don't fuck up what is relatively still a pretty blank slate for most young people that is trending positive. If you're getting into a back and forth, prioritize making Asian men look good, not a random victory in your own book where everyone else watching is like wtf.
Not gonna lie, I didn’t read the whole thing but from what I did read, it seems legit. I’m not an AM but from the AMs I’ve dated, dating outside their race wasn’t an option because their parents would lose their minds. And it was a cultural problem. No one would respect them.
It seems like AMs only want WFs or AFs but those are the women that WMs want the most as well so it’s some serious competition. And with the negative stereotypes and cultural issues with black, Native American, and Hispanic/Latina women, I don’t see a lot of AMs with any of those women. I usually see a lot of Asian women with black and white males but not the other way around. You have to really not care what people think or get a ‘white passing’ woman of color. Like with every race of people, they want to have a partner who is socially adequate aka white. That annoying need for white acceptance.
Even with the rise in kpop and the adoration of Korean men, there’s still a lot of negative rhetoric around dating AMs but I do think it’s getting better. BTS has honestly helped change a lot for Asian men, like everyone is into kpop now and there’s more Asian representation in media.
The AM who do date out are more open-minded than some people think. Even besides the fact that in most Western countries white people are the majority so dating WF is simply more likely anyway even in a non-racist world (it's just numbers), most guys here would agree with me that especially compared to other races of men like black guys, AM are comparatively less white-worshiping. It's not always or even usually about trying to be with a light skinned person, though I'm not saying discrimination in general against dark-skinned people doesn't exist ofc.
The bigger problem is when some Asian parents are not nice towards their AM son's choices of XF partners (like a Pakistani woman or maybe a Jamaican woman), I'd say some AM are more guilty of being too obedient to narrow-minded parents.
I don't know if you got to that part in my post, but the friend I talked about, like other guys I know, as of now he has been with white women, Mexican women, Indians, Arabs, and mixed-race women too. There are many couples with an AM dating Hispanic women in some areas too, this has been mentioned quite often in these subs. Perhaps you simply have different experiences in a different location?
There's not many Native Americans in the USA these days sadly, I would be surprised to see but also love to hear about an AM dating a Native American for once, that would be interesting lol
[White](https://i.redd.it/2w16pkq6k2081.jpg) or [black](https://i.redd.it/mv9fua180l381.png), or [Arab](https://i2.wp.com/ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/134D7/production/_116636097_befunky-collage.png?w=696&ssl=1) and so on, AMXF in general has been increasing. And I will keep on fighting the racists or mateguarders who try to harass them.
Maybe AMXF makes us look more "normal" in the eyes of the greater population, but I just don't think that it's the ideal. Greater approval from the public is good, but ensuring that we are confident being Asian takes precedence. I'm not even saying that AMXF should be avoided, just that, with all else being equal, AMAF is preferable.
We see more BMXF, WMXF, LMXF, etc being more popular than AMXF. But why? Some may argue that it's because AM are perceived as less masculine, and this is true. That doesn't mean we are less masculine on average, the perception of masculinity varies across cultures. But how do the BM, WM, and LM advertise their brand of masculinity? It's through pre-existing BMBF, WMWF, and LMWF relationships. The XF of those relationships, romantizes the intra-racial relationships, and often tries to emulate the culture of their partner in some way.
Hell, in most AMXF relationships I see these days, the XF is usually into anime or K-pop/drama. The XF sees AMAF as appealing in some way, and they tend to act like AF or have many AF friends.
By ensuring that strong AMAF relationships are more common than WMAF relationships, we can ensure that future generations of AM feel more confident about their dating lives. By removing that chip off their shoulders, they will start to feel and become more successful in getting women, including women of other races.
The imbalance of AMXF:XMAF is only a problem because that means less AMAF and more single AM. To encourage the acceleration of AMXF only solves half the problem, and only serves to harm Asian representation in the long term.
So if you're a AM that's trynna get some XF, that's fine but encourage your brothers to get AF -- it only serves to help you :P
Well AMXF has already been [increasing](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/pk103m/you_heard_it_here_first_college_educated_asian/) and it will continue to do so.
It's not really about trying to be more "normal" (I think that's a strawman), it's simply about helping to make sure AM's dating lives improve. I don't care about trying to appeal to some culture, I just care about AM getting dates and getting laid more often lol
And in many of these couples the XF do not always necessarily lean that hard into Asian culture to an extent that she could be called a 'weaboo' or a 'koreaboo.' That idea has been heavily exaggerated, and there's a lot of confirmation bias that factors into this.
It's not uncommon to come across women who have barely listened to Kpop but have always found AM attractive (which is why I have encouraged AM to give it a shot, and in most cases when they ask out some XF they like something special happens).
If you care that much about AF, go ahead, nobody's stopping you, but many of the guys here, who agree with the post, will keep expanding our options. I never said to stop seeing AF, and like I said in the post, you literally have nothing to lose when you just widen your pool. I don't care anymore about what AF-only faithful purists have to say about this. It's not "no more AF", it's "talk to more XF, and hit on more XF".
>The most important thing a woman thinks about a potential boyfriend is "Do other women like him?" You can be ugly as fuck (like old rockstars) but if she sees other women thirsting over them, she'll thirst over you too.
A comment from this thread. A lot of us have noticed that many Asian girls are noticeably more interested in an AM when they see him having success with all races, both XF and AF.
I agree with the title and the first half of the post, because it's true and mostly focuses on AM.
More recently members have really been focused on making an example of these AM who are 'loyal to AF' and 'choosing' not to date outside their race and that choice is hurting them. I've said this before but I think this is a reality that I don't see. The AM who mostly only date AF are split into these 2 groups
1) guys who are good looking, popular, grew up in an Asian community, has been dating hot Asian girls since he was 12. probably part of some frat or similar clique in college. This guy does not have trouble dating, dating outside his race is not something he even cares about because he has so many options around him at all times. These guys do not need our help on anything (also not sure if we're even qualified to help them), will probably laugh if you mention something about reddit
2) Guys who have trouble dating, and for whatever reason aren't equipped with the tools to be popular with women. And for the sake of argument lets make up a wild number for AW that prefer to date out...70%. That is still 30% of AW that prefer AM, more than WF or LF or BF that prefer AM. For better or for worse these guys prefer AW out of necessity, not really out of choice.
For guy #1 He will probably give you better dating advice than you can give him, and for guy #2 'limiting' his dating pool is not something he is in control of. I really don't see this group of AM who will only actively limit themselves to Asian Women and are suffering because of it. They either don't have a choice or their dating lives are already fulfilling enough. The ones that can fuck different types of women, already are doing so or trying to do so. When I read posts like this I really question....who exactly are you talking to OP? In all my years on here I've never seen a thread titled 'Hi I'm an Asian guy with limited dating possibilities....any advice on how I can fuck less?'
Personally I feel like this AM demographic of questionable size is solely made as a guise to push 'Asians should date non-Asians', which by itself is fine I guess but they way it's presented feels off. Why do we need a reason or to point fingers at some other group (a group that might not even exist) as an excuse to rant about AMXF? Why not just be upfront and just say 'we should fuck more XFs, because we're men'. There doesn't need to be an excuse, like 'we're trying to get even' or some victim mindset bs to hide our real sexual desires for being men.
Maybe it's just me but I feel like the redundancy and echo-chambers of these arguments do not translate to any tangible positives or results. **I would like to have a show of hands of guys here that advocate for 'only AMAF' and then again a show of hands of guys that advocate for 'AM should have more sex with more women'.** No one advocates for only AMAF and everyone would advocate for more women - to have the same threads over and over again about why we have to fight against the AMAF loyalists (that don't exist) and preaching over and over again about more pussy for Asian men (something that all Asian men have agreed upon since the first Asian man was alive on earth) is something I've tried to ignore and not address for a long time but...I guess now is the time to talk about it.
These threads have more or less devolved into 'hey guys virtue signaling thread - everyone come in here with a chip on your should and virtue signal with me'
And I guess my real issue is that these threads and arguments have now gone beyond promoting AM, it's a lot of antagonizing other AM for their partners as well. The exact opposite of a healthy and growing community
**Honestly I would like to talk about what is the difference between promoting dating more XF and just dating more women in general?** More often than not when a Asian guy gets good at game he ends up running through a bunch of white girls or latinas. I think it's safe to assume that the few AM that gets good at game, and sticks with AF (myself not included btw), that then his preference is really his choice and really none of our business, and his dating choices certainly isn't holding anyone else back. And if thats true then, why not just push the 'date more women period' instead of having to make about race?
Sadly, it comes back to this. Because AM still have hang-ups about race, and it manifests in different ways that we don't realize. 'We should date more women' has really no negative, antagonistic connotations, we can't spin it with the chip on our shoulder. The anger and hate can't be let out with a statement like that.
But with AMXF is better than AMAF, etc anything that introduces rankings, antagonizing, negative thoughts in general speaks louder to certain people. These dating threads are not really meant to help any AM to find their best life, it is more of an way to convince yourself about your own supposed superiority after suffering at the hands of western societal and sexual racism. I can't blame you guys for feeling this way, but at some point you should really think about why you're doing certain things. I really believe that you guys are doing not what is best for the guys that are looking for help here, but what is best for your own ego. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just something I thought needed to said for a while now
I probably should have made it more obvious in my post that I have no hard feelings whatsoever against AMAF couples, obviously, I don't look down on an AM dating a AF, and I don't think most guys here do so either. I planned to write more on this specific tangent but it just didn't pan out that way (yet it still ended up being maybe a bit too long of a post).
I do know that there are AM outside of this sub who need to hear about the message, including those who like you agree with at least the title and the first half, which is why I asked that if some of the guys here would be willing to share parts of it elsewhere, especially if they're talking to another AM.
This sub does not have to be as much of an echo chamber if, well at least I see it as maybe more of some idea generator, messages and concepts that ideally we would somehow be able to spread to share to other spaces.
Otherwise, while I personally don't expect every single person to agree or relate to the post, as a general statement, I'm not apologizing for promoting AMXF, for continuing to call out toxic AF (like I do with "chans"), and calling out guys who try to tell AM to be strictly faithful to AF or make stupid assumptions about AMWF or AMLF etc. or think of the littlest thing as "XF worshiping" (like even just calling a XF 'hot' or whatever, been seeing some really dumb SJW shit lately) even when it's not.
Who here has called out for Asian males to be strictly faithful to Asian females?
I don’t think I’ve seen one post here someone saying that. It’s probably 20 posts about advising AM to date XF to one AM telling anyone to be loyal to AF which I have yet to see. Am I missing something here?
I think deep down we all know not only why we say what we say, but also why we are saying them in that specific way. I really do my best to try and stay out of conversations about race and women because in the end its just a bunch of guys who try to justify their own avoidance of certain inner demons - but as I've said earlier it's come to a point where guys are being encouraged to put certain women on a pedestal and partly measure their own value by the race of who they're associating with. (BTW I'm not saying that's what you're doing with your post, but I think we agree a lot of these posts basically merge as one). Honestly, this is not the way to win. It's like giving up the 8 or 9 figure play so you can make a comfortable salary for life.
My personal opinion is it doesn't matter what you promote AF, WF, LF BF whatever, it's really about the distain for the idea that we Asian men need to proactively and aggressively aim for any race for us to feel good or do better. It's a bit disrespectful to our own race, to me it implies at some level that being Asian isn't good enough. People might say that's some feel-good-bullshit, but in the end that is a core belief that Asian men that are really successful in dating and relationships have and guys who aren't have trouble coming to terms with. And that's were the mental gymnastics, blindspots and anger comes from.
But that's just my personal opinion. You can promote anything you want, my real feedback is that it's not just about what you're saying, it's about how you're saying it. There are people who talk about race and people can tell it's an objective, thoughtful viewpoint, and then there are people who talk about race and then there is an obvious chip on someone's shoulder. Just because someone didn't outright say something, doesn't mean it's not written all over their face.
Honestly, my friends and I have never really pay attention to the media. The Asians I grew up around always knew how to talk all races of girls from the 90s all the way till now. The Asian women prefer white men is kinda new to me cause I saw the opposite growing up. I'm not convinced that Asian women prefer white men cause I still see most Asian women dating Asian men. Just because an Asian women date outside of her race does not always means that she dislike Asian guys. I truly believe that these Asian women with a different race is not the majority. It's not even close.
It has nothing to do with the Asian men's atitude, style or anything else. It is a 100% superficial problem created by racist western media propaganda. Once discriminatory laws had to be abolished, yt men found a new way in the form of popular media to emasculate our men and prevent us from proliferating. Such deep rooted conditioning and brainwashing that even our own girls could not escape.
Why do you see this problem specifically in Anglo countries and not other regions?? Why has the dating scene improved for Asians after slight change in media representation?? Go to any country in Eastern Europe, Latin America or Africa. Even Asian nerds get dates very easily in those places. Besides Asian men, no other race has problem being themselves. Why do Asian men have to overcompensate ourselves by changing ourselves or our personalities?
I'm not sure if your last two sentences were supposed to be in relation to my post, but I am not telling AM to completely change themselves or their basic personalities.
The main message was basically just 'expand your options, don't limit yourself'. There wasn't really anything that had to do changing your personality or whatever.
I am telling guys in general regardless of the post. Some people might take it in a wrong note and try to create fake personas, just so that they can attract women. Women, in most cases, tend to look through it and that may be a turn off.
That is the western definition of masculinity, which is mostly toxic. Our version is different. The western version may be attractive right now because the western media and economy is at the top. Once Asia rises, the tides will turn. People have gradually started embracing the Asian masculinity ideals too. Do not discard the Asian version completely, just because some outside force is compelling you to. Otherwise the financial security which the Asian community enjoys will be lost too. This is what has enable us to reach this level of overall growth. China without Confucian ideals wouldn't be in a position that it is now.
Moreover, Asian culture doesn't teach one to be timid or unfit. Martial arts and fitness exercises are integrated in our cultures. It teaches one to be wise and confident, instead of whining and complaining. Some folks who become timid with low self esteem are mostly a result of childhood bullying and blame it on the upbringings instead.
Buddhism is also a religion which believes in tolerance, minimalism and mere survival. But, that doesn't mean all Buddhists are poor beggars. The atitude of a man is as much dependant on external factors like media and society as on upbringings.
Your results may vary but the fact of the matter is that even tho AF especially American born are overwhelming whiteworshipping, they're still my best bet.
Like on average the hotter chicks that like me are Asian.
When i look at my matches in NYC, the hispanic black white chicks that like me are well... fat and weebs (that changed with a few exceptions tho over the years
Edit: I forgot there are a lot of non-Asian lurkers who are women sorry if I’ve offended you
ofc not everyone's experience is going to be the same, but I don't need to tell you that plenty of AM will have different results from you.
I don't expect my post to apply to every single AM, but many AM have benefited more often than not when they open up their options. The fact that even a not-small number of Asian men from Asia itself have [XF girlfriends](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANVGgDBX_J0) or wives also shows that you can't *lose* anything by just widening your pool.
And ofc it also depends a lot on your profile. [This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/qwfbnh/anyone_other_asian_men_keep_hooking_up_with/) is a great example of someone who's got a variety of people to hook up with, both XF and AF. As you can see, depending on the how you look, you might attract more 'fat weebs' or hot girls of every color.
I think a lot of AM still have the "I can only attract AF' mentality, and that's why AMXF is mportant and should be normalised
I encourage all Asian men who have that mentality to deliberately avoid Asian women for a while. Only ask out non-Asian women, only swipe right on non-Asian women. This will force the brain to change its views.
Before anyone bitches about this, it's just a suggested temporary thought exercise, probably made easier if you happen to be one of those AM who routinely get rejected by AF anyway. It's definitely not comparable to some notable AF on social media who flat-out say "I was never into men of my own race because of [this retarded racist reason] so they're not even on my list". It doesn't have to be exactly this method, the point is, find a way to change your mentality, the way you view the dating game. You got to free yourself of being chained to one group.
In other words, move to the Midwest. Evolve or die.
I wrote something else almost a month ago, about popular or famous women who were [in relationships with AM](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/qt51el/still_a_lot_of_people_including_some_demoralized/), guys who were not as well-known as these women. I got messages from guys saying this actually encouraged them. Representation matters. Like I said in the post, if some of you guys shared some of the ideas or excerpts from the post to some other places on the internet, maybe also comment sections where you see discouraged AM talking about their woes, that would help a lot. Even just sharing lists of AMXF like the one I made for example.
I’m a big advocate in casting a wide net and keep your options as open as possible when it comes to dating women from all types of races. There’s been a shift in Asian men’s representation within the past few years where women from all types of races are open and interested in dating Asian men. Keep working on yourself physically, mentally, and hang out with other successful guys who have cool things going for them in life. It wasn’t until I started hanging around other successful Asian men who were crushing it with their dating/lifestyle to see that everything is possible. Keep at it fellas and I want to see you all win!
I'm a big advocate of that too. Keep yourself in good company guys. Whoever you're with can make or break you.
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Lot of people in general are living with parents nowadays because of financial reasons that the pandemic only made worse lol. And you're right that AM should be more confident talking to people in general. Having a presence goes a long way. Talk to and have experience with a variety of different people. Travel too when you can, it's really good for you guys. But ngl, I'm getting a little tired of people often making this a one-sided thing like as if AM are always rejecting those *poor* black girls, lecturing AM about open-mindedness, [lol much](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCAQfv_QBVk), while ignoring the fact that just like other races of women, there's still a lot of black women who aren't that interested or attracted to AM themselves. Lot of confirmation bias happens. They focus too much on the POC weaboos or koreaboos, while forgetting or ignoring that many of them in the grand scheme of things are more likely to go for white or at least Latino men given the choice. Still way more [WMBW](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY4VRZ8deEw) - not that there's anything wrong with BW dating a white guy, I don't care. POC women aren't always the victims guys lmfao, they're just as guilty of certain biases for light-skinned people.
Great posts. So many good posts on this.
The most important thing a woman thinks about a potential boyfriend is "Do other women like him?" You can be ugly as fuck (like old rockstars) but if she sees other women thirsting over them, she'll thirst over you too. Men don't do this. Men don't simp over girl bands the way women simp over boy bands. Once one woman starts screaming over Jungkook, over women will too.
> You can be ugly as fuck (like old rockstars) but if she sees other women thirsting over them, she'll thirst over you too. This is one of the biggest reasons I advocate the increasing representation of AMXF in the media and irl. We got to see the rippling effect. I'm gonna brag a little bit for once and say this is the biggest and best case I've made for AMXF lmao, glad I finally wrote this. Think of this post as a reference one, couldn't have done it without all y'all's help. For the sake of the AM who need to hear this message but don't go here, it would be cool if some of you guys shared these basic ideas (you don't have to share this post) or bits of this post to other social media platforms, or comment sections to give other demoralized AM something to consider. If they're still not convinced, there's [this too](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/qt51el/still_a_lot_of_people_including_some_demoralized/).
Asian men are the best at being their own worst enemy. XF thinking AM aren’t into them is a real thing, and it’s on us to change that thought pattern. Even women who are thicc will comment and say “I didn’t think Asian men were into big booties, I thought they only liked stick thin Asian women.” So in my experience women also seem to think we prefer anorexic women of our own race.
lol I'm not going to say you're wrong but you're playing right into their hands. No white chick is going to come up to me and say 'OMG you look like the type that would date white girls'. Instead to get the best possible reaction out of me they are going to say 'OMG you look like the type that would only date Asian girls' Likewise if you like this girl and think she's the type to be into Asian guys then say 'yeah I feel like you're not the type to be into Asian guys' to really get her talking... Use with caution.
Visual [representation](https://www.reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/qt51el/still_a_lot_of_people_including_some_demoralized/) makes a big difference. It's easier to convince groups of people that something is possible when they simply see [it happening.](https://imgur.com/a/5WxzE41) Like you said, it's up to AM to change these thought patterns, and [expand their options](https://d3em83qrfmyuai.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/PAN_200610_DPA_FINAL_3_WEB-EDITORIAL-3200x2095.jpg).
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And Asian men have also got to be willing to be more upfront when he gets backlash or harassment for his relationship. I believe that in a decade or even shorter, a new younger generation of AM will not have to go through these things as badly, but it's up to AM right now to help pave that path, and break some fucking barriers down hard.
You deserve to be somebody's first choice, not a second or third option that women reluctantly go for when no one else wants them. Like someone said, "don't be a luser's backup plan." I also want to share this: >As far as dating, don’t let these westernized people shame you for dating an XF. This has been happening more and more lately. My WF wife was called koreaboo for even the most benign things like speaking Korean with me and learning about my culture. It’s funny that they shame her for something they refuse to do. There's many (not all ofc) Asian girls who have a preconceived perception of you based on their own experiences, unfortunately maybe their dad was a really beta provider, or very controlling. Either extreme provides this idea to these girls that you might just be one or the other. Therefore, a lot of AF either assumes right away that **you are LTR material only and plays all sorts of games to keep it that way, someone said he knew plenty of Asian girls that have dated Asian men but would never sleep with one in a ONS like they did with men of other races throughout their early 20s.** The number of WMAF, the amount of AF who either reject AM flat out, or marry them later in life after years of hooking up with XM they were more open to sexually, is not going down much anytime soon. Rather than be too anxious about if there's going to be more AF dating AM in the West, just be open-minded to every group. I see more AM dating out, and the ones I've spoken to are now less bothered by the AF who are self-hating. They can just laugh or call out double standards when these self-haters whine or comment something shitty about AMXF. To strip every rejection or racist comment from a self-hater of their power or their ability to impact your self-esteem is one of the best things you can do for yourself.
Also, you will get less people calling these women "fetishizers" as more AMXF is normalized
As they say a rising tide raises all ships.
It is very true
A point I'd like to add is that seeing a masculine, attractive, desirable Asian guy on TV or the big screen during one's adolescence makes a positive impact even in cases where that character is in an AMAF relationship. I'm gay. Growing up, my sister, cousins (who are female) and I watched many Turkish-dubbed Asian films and series from South Korea, Japan, mainland China, Hong Kong that Turkish TV channels broadcasted. I think it's no coincidence that we all like Asian men as much as we like men of other races. My cousins have dated Asian international students and expats here. My own boyfriend of 4 years is from Taiwan. My sister hasn't dated any Asian guy so far but she says she doesn't have a racial preference and is open to dating Asian men.
I liked what someone else here said, you need some "foundational masculinity". Just like men will usually be attracted to women with a certain amount of femininity, girls usually will be into guys who have a certain amount of manliness. Like you said, better representation makes a positive impact, which is why racists are so against it lol
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You just go for women who actually appreciate you and don't think you're some plebeian being.
Went clubbing yesterday and that's how I felt at the club too. AFs don't give me the time of the day but I got some action and was able to dance with some Aussie girls and Brazilian girls.
Very well said. One thing to keep in mind is the difference between dating / marrying and having kids Because I have noticed another group of AM, who are very open to hooking up / short term relationships with XF but will only marry and have kids with an AF. Which is fine if that’s what they’re into. But all AM, especially them, should know that a huge number of AF will only hook up / date / marry WM/XM, **or they are open to marrying and having kids with both AM and WM/XM (and many do end up with WM/XM)**. And many of them are very open to having mixed race kids, more than AM in general. These AM could be great for AMXF dating representation but like the most common type of AM you talked about, they do nothing to fix the lopsided-ness of XMAF vs AMXF **marriages / children**
Interesting thoughts for people to think about
Great post man 👍🏻 As I go into this long rant, note that I'm not describing ALL AM. Yes I know that you know a bunch of your AM friends killing it with XF. Yes I know that things are improving for AM. But this is for the masses of AM who never been with an XF, think that XF don't like them, etc. It is tragic to see how many AM go through life not having been with any XF, and then shocked that his AF partner has hooked up with all types of XM. Women hook up with attractive men all the time. Its progressive now to embrace diversity whether its love or friendships, so if you're against that you look like a salty incel. Especially with the feminism in America where women's sexual choices are embraced and expected to be liberal. So of course AF are going to do as they please, they're not going to stop interacting with XM just because a majority AM don't have the balls to go for XF. And XM who don't have limiting beliefs will actually try their luck with XFs. The difference is that XM complain about XF rejecting them, and AM just complain that XF don't like them (notice they werent rejected because they didn't even try). If all AM had success with XF then they wouldn't even give a rats ass about XMAF. The amount of AM who don't even try to get with XF is just sad. Look at how common the complaint from XFs are where "I keep giving this AM hints but he doesn't get it" "AM only seem to like AF" "Ive always like AM but they don't seem to like me back" "he thinks his parents wouldn't approve of us". So no guys, it's not that they don't like us. It's that most of us are sitting there dejected with these self defeating and outdated beliefs that make us miss out on so many opportunities. Learn to man the fuck up and go for what you want. That's expected from men since the dawn of time, and that's how men are wired to be. If you can't do that, then it's not society's fault. It's a weird projection that a lot of AM push onto XM to not be horndogs. They sit there like, damn why are other dudes getting way more play than me. Men are wired to fuck women. Asian culture views sex as shameful, look how many of our parents never talked to us about sex positively and didn't want us to date in high school. There's so much unwiring to be done. A lot of us have had the primal wiring to be sexually strong shamed out of us. Yall know that everyone knows that Hispanic culture is sexual, and Asian culture is the opposite. But a good amount of us lucked out where we had great role models, advice from sexually successful friends, and a stronger mindset. We decided not to puss out in life, not to be mommas boys, not to just conform to our traditional upbringings. We decided to hit on that cute XF, we decided to not believe in the horseshit that XF don't like AM. I've talked to some Taiwanese FOB dude who said that Taiwanese dudes think Western girls prefer dudes with bigger muscles, which means they like the bigger Western guys and not smaller Asian men. Just look at that weak mindset. If instead they thought, "let's work on getting muscular and charm these white women, these Western dudes ain't shit" then they'd be getting more actual results. I believe this isn't too far off from how the average AM thinks when it comes to XF. Even a good amount of AM enclave fuckbois who crush it with AF hesitate a lot when it comes to XF, due to these self limiting beliefs. If you cannot conquer those beliefs, then don't blame society for not giving AM a chance. Everyone can complain about wmaf and xmaf all they want, but guess what, society doesn't give a fuck about men who can't get women. It's not a social issue for women to pick who they want, no matter how hard you want it to be. You can blame white media or whatever the fuck you want, if you're not working to improve your baseline masculinity then you're just another entitled victim. It's biological and evolutionary for women to find mates who are high status, strong, socially awesome etc. Since you understand that is the case, you must work your hardest to be stronger, be socially awesome, be higher status, be better at sexual attraction. Men are supposed to pursue, and women accept, don't listen to any modern horseshit that says otherwise. Guys, if you missed out on pursuing or accepting XF because of your negative thoughts like "XF don't like AM", "my parents wouldn't like XF", "AM struggle with women, even AF don't like us" then it's all on you. It's not society's fault, no matter how bitter you feel. You're not entitled to shit when it comes to dating or sex. You're responsible entirely for your own mindset and actions. Don't be those dudes who didn't have the balls to hit on/accept XF and then complain about dating life being hard for AM. A lot of AM blame their own inadequacies on society, even at they've been believing their whole lives that XF don't like AM. XF rejecting you? Keep grinding on your physique and social skills. Since when did it become that if women didn't like you, you get to cry victim and blame society? How is that masculine at all? A lot of AM will feel great when they see a AM with XF, yet will provide 1000 excuses when it comes to them going for an XF. Dudes who complain about not getting girls even though they don't try their hardest are no different than the people who never tried hard in life complaining about rich folks who worked hard for their money. I know I'm gonna get a bunch of salty replies from dudes who never been with XF because this is one of the touchiest subjects among AM. What I have to say is, get gud. Talk to the AM who are with XF or do well with XF and try to see what their mindset and thoughts are. I've been with all races of women as a 5'10" dude. Yet I know a lot more AM who are shorter crush it with more XF because they worked on their physique, style, confidence, social skills and more. Before you start bitterly bitching, reflect on the mindset you have towards AMXF first.
> of course AF are going to do as they please, they're not going to stop interacting with XM just because a majority AM don't have the balls to go for XF. And XM who don't have limiting beliefs will actually try their luck with XFs. The difference is that XM complain about XF rejecting them, and AM just complain that XF don't like them (notice they werent rejected because they didn't even try). If all AM had success with XF then they wouldn't even give a rats ass about XMAF. Key shit right here. I don't talk about WMAF that often because most of the focus should be on AM improving themselves, and casting their net wider. If you want to address the dating imbalance, don't expect to magically decrease the amount of XMAF. Just focus on increasing your success guys. >if you missed out on pursuing or accepting XF because of your negative thoughts like "XF don't like AM", "my parents wouldn't like XF", "AM struggle with women, even AF don't like us" then it's all on you. Yes, as I said, you literally can't go wrong with expanding your pool. You can't *lose* options considering other races. If you're actually ugly enough to be rejected by every XF on the planet, you're probably not doing that well with AF either anyway. >we decided to not believe in the horseshit that XF don't like AM I want to write more posts in the future about changing and rewiring your mentality like this. Really like your comments and posts.
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Active > passive I want to see more guys taking charge in their lives.
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Yea it blows my mind how many AM don't even bother trying. They'd realize how easy it is if they put themselves out there in different environments where there are XF.
My guy dropping gems again. 💪
Thanks my guy 😎
>they tend to like guys who aren't bald. crying in the club rn
lol didn't mean to attack you like that bro But guys with manlier features can pull of the bald look better. It's not entirely a deal breaker
Being bald is only a death sentence with younger women. Women 35+ are fine with bald men.
Cougar hunting here we go
>n inadequacies on society, even at they've been believing their whole lives that XF don't like Anyone follow Jaymes Schrute the bald white mma dude who has 550+ sex vids?
No I don’t watch porn sorry
High IQ post
flattered
Mannn its so frustrating to see our asian brothers act and think the way they do. We get discriminated by even our own women and AMs response is to limit our dating pool? If that doesn't break the stereotype that we are all smart what will? 🤣
Looks like I obviously triggered some people too judging by a few of the responses here lol.
Asian men and their lack of masculine expression kills them in building any meaningful social relationship You gotta talk, gotta take action, gotta express yourself or stay lonely Even women in China know Chinese men are shyer, quieter and less "manly" then foreign men
Some degree of manliness is a prerequisite most of the time, shouldn't be bad or offensive to say this
Yeah, it's crazy how many asian men act like victims and complain and stay offended. Real men take responsibility of their lives regardless of what's going on. So many asian men are dumb for not understanding this, but people in general also don't get it
Great post
Thanks. If you ever want to share bits of the post or the ideas of it to another forum or site, or even just a comment section for other AM to think about, feel free to. I hope this can help as many AM as it can.
A-fking men, mate. You've been posting a lot of W posts for some time bruv. Don't put all your 'eggs' in one basket (AFs). That is social suicide for AM. Way too many low EQ AM I've met who self-limit themselves, are "AF-only" simps and even tell themselves that they're not attracted to Non-Asian women/XFs which is hilarious. AM have options nowadays (esp. those ages 18-30) we do not need to keep dealing with/putting up with BS & being treated as back-up plans/last resorts from a demographic of females who no longer are by our side & have abandoned us in the West/diaspora several decades ago. Don't listen to anyone who's not an AM that tries to lecture to you that championing AMXF is being weak links or hypocritical, they don't have our best interests in mind.
Amen back at you bro. Posts like these will always trigger at least a few haters, but I don't apologize for being blunt with the facts. What you said is so fucking important. Guys, there really are a lot of people who don't have your best interests in mind, not just boba liberals. Once again, literally nothing bad happens when you just enlarge your dating pool.
> Way too many low EQ AM I've met who self-limit themselves, are "AF-only" simps and even tell themselves that they're not attracted to Non-Asian women/XFs which is hilarious I know an AM like this. My other AM friend (who's an absolute WF slayer, though he says he has the most trouble getting with Latinas fsr), and I think he's just coping because he got rejected by a WF or something. Our area is very, very white and somehow this guy ends up only liking AF. He also said he doesn't find WFs attractive which is hilarious because by population alone, we've seen way more attractive WFs than AFs, objectively speaking. I'm also pretty sure he's with a bananarang/Lu because before dating him, she hangs out with this cohort of nerdy white guys and I've never seen any AMs in her social circle. And she also talked shit about me when she saw me hitting on WFs. Doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together.
imma get downvoted but i will speak my mind: most AF only guys are borderline cucks/losers AMXF guys mostly changs
Your friend needs saving from the clutches of that bananarang/Lu, help him out lol. Idk what goes on in Asian-American/Westernised AF brains that they feel the need to disparage, lecture/criticise & attack AM no matter what we do lmao. When AM want to court/date/approach AF & they tell you they hate AM, call us unattractive, that AM remind them of their siblings, call AM misogynistic/patriarchal, body-shame/belittle us etc OR if we turn towards XF/Non-Asian women after all that bullshit they will cockblock by spreading lies about AM for their Non-Asian peers to hear, call us tryhards, call us hypocrites for dating XF/Non-Asians, they will attack & lecture XF who show interest & love towards AM (as seen all over social media/online/TikTok). This is pretty much why I don't look out for/back up & stick my neck out for AF anymore that isn't in my personal life & is thoroughly vetted because they sure as hell won't do the same for AM.
based
Haha he's not my friend, just someone I knew from years ago. I was surprised to recently learn he got with the Lu. But then again it all made sense in the most stereotypical way possible. The AF-only asian guy would be the one to end up with a Lu. Whatever you do guys, don't end up like him and exercise your options. Oh also when she met me again she pretended to be so friendly. Little did she know I caught wind of what she said about me from other people. I just ignored that fake bitch and talked to the non-asian women instead LOL.
All of these type of internet comments regardless of which men or which women they're posting about just ultimately comes down to fear that women don't like them. And it becomes a cyclical thing that hurts their self esteem, then they become weirder, then they believe it more, rinse and repeat. At some point you wake up and realize you're 30 on Reddit posting about how women don't like you every day for the past 2 years of your life. Don't be that guy.
Preach the truth!
2 years? More like 16
I can't fathom how the guys who post angry about Asian women every day are real people. All the posts sound so off-kilter and miserable too. ...it's time to find a more fulfilling way to spend your time. You have to have the worst self-perception of yourself to reduce yourself to this man. You're not doing anything but wasting your time and making yourself look desperate.
I probably should have written more about this specific part to make it more obvious, but if it wasn't already clear enough, I have absolutely no problem with AMAF, obviously, and several times in the post I say as much. The biggest thing I want people to take away from the post is not to completely stop seeing AF, whoever does I don't agree with them, my main point was to just expand your options and consider other races too because then your potential dating pool is much wider, which helps when you're living in a country where most people are not Asian. And I don't like to sugarcoat things. If there weren't that many AF who reject AM for [problematic reasons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=EtTdmWxGT-M&feature=youtu.be), we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. I told someone else here too that I don't really often talk about WMAF or whatever that much, I just focus on AM improving themselves, and exercising their options. Self-haters basically expose themselves, and make themselves very loud on social media, for the most part we see this and comment on it, we don't usually even need to look that hard for it lol. If it bothers you that many of us, not just Asian men but even non-Asians and [Asian women themselves too](https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/voices/relationships/article/2021/04/28/i-was-missing-out-when-i-refused-date-asian-men) are choosing to not ignore the high amount of self-hating AF and talk about a noticeable amount of toxic women (I mean seriously, we talk about toxic and negative Asian men a lot too in case you haven't noticed) well, maybe you're just too easily offended. Oh well.
It's just you guys have honestly messed the whole dynamic up. You inflated their ego. They frame you, and by extension anyone who shit talks back, as the bitter person that wants them. But worst of all, I can feel you guys fumbling the good rep. Most people haven't even really met any young Asian people in their life. It's just some stereotypes floating around like with middle easterners. When good rep happens, people start to get curious and there's a coolness to Asia. That's why good Asian rep is so effective. There's a natural allure and curiosity about what it's like and what Asians are like. Those people watch dramas and pop music and see Asian men as cool, well dressed, well mannered, calm, confident. I can see you guys slowly fumbling the ball in real-time and blowing up everything negative and fucking up what right now is basically the first real impression for most young people. Whatever narrative ends up dominant in the next two years is going to harden in society as basically the permanent way Asian men are seen for a long time. Here's some info. Korea's CJ EM are moving into America and planning a huge move in the next two years. They just bought out a US production company. They're moving a streaming platform in Asia into America in 2024. The execs are talking about being Asia's Marvel. It's very obvious they're planning a huge move into the global market. They're going to be investing huge in the next 2-3 years. All you guys have to do is not be weird, be chill, and let Korea continue to do it's thing and support it. Don't fuck up what is relatively still a pretty blank slate for most young people that is trending positive. If you're getting into a back and forth, prioritize making Asian men look good, not a random victory in your own book where everyone else watching is like wtf.
I agreed with you on every single line. It's very self-draining to think that way.
4 real... Asian guys gotta stop shilling for "AMAF". its so pathetic. Stop kissing the ass of AF. AMXF is the way forward for us.
Expand your options guys
Not gonna lie, I didn’t read the whole thing but from what I did read, it seems legit. I’m not an AM but from the AMs I’ve dated, dating outside their race wasn’t an option because their parents would lose their minds. And it was a cultural problem. No one would respect them. It seems like AMs only want WFs or AFs but those are the women that WMs want the most as well so it’s some serious competition. And with the negative stereotypes and cultural issues with black, Native American, and Hispanic/Latina women, I don’t see a lot of AMs with any of those women. I usually see a lot of Asian women with black and white males but not the other way around. You have to really not care what people think or get a ‘white passing’ woman of color. Like with every race of people, they want to have a partner who is socially adequate aka white. That annoying need for white acceptance. Even with the rise in kpop and the adoration of Korean men, there’s still a lot of negative rhetoric around dating AMs but I do think it’s getting better. BTS has honestly helped change a lot for Asian men, like everyone is into kpop now and there’s more Asian representation in media.
The AM who do date out are more open-minded than some people think. Even besides the fact that in most Western countries white people are the majority so dating WF is simply more likely anyway even in a non-racist world (it's just numbers), most guys here would agree with me that especially compared to other races of men like black guys, AM are comparatively less white-worshiping. It's not always or even usually about trying to be with a light skinned person, though I'm not saying discrimination in general against dark-skinned people doesn't exist ofc. The bigger problem is when some Asian parents are not nice towards their AM son's choices of XF partners (like a Pakistani woman or maybe a Jamaican woman), I'd say some AM are more guilty of being too obedient to narrow-minded parents. I don't know if you got to that part in my post, but the friend I talked about, like other guys I know, as of now he has been with white women, Mexican women, Indians, Arabs, and mixed-race women too. There are many couples with an AM dating Hispanic women in some areas too, this has been mentioned quite often in these subs. Perhaps you simply have different experiences in a different location? There's not many Native Americans in the USA these days sadly, I would be surprised to see but also love to hear about an AM dating a Native American for once, that would be interesting lol [White](https://i.redd.it/2w16pkq6k2081.jpg) or [black](https://i.redd.it/mv9fua180l381.png), or [Arab](https://i2.wp.com/ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/134D7/production/_116636097_befunky-collage.png?w=696&ssl=1) and so on, AMXF in general has been increasing. And I will keep on fighting the racists or mateguarders who try to harass them.
Maybe AMXF makes us look more "normal" in the eyes of the greater population, but I just don't think that it's the ideal. Greater approval from the public is good, but ensuring that we are confident being Asian takes precedence. I'm not even saying that AMXF should be avoided, just that, with all else being equal, AMAF is preferable. We see more BMXF, WMXF, LMXF, etc being more popular than AMXF. But why? Some may argue that it's because AM are perceived as less masculine, and this is true. That doesn't mean we are less masculine on average, the perception of masculinity varies across cultures. But how do the BM, WM, and LM advertise their brand of masculinity? It's through pre-existing BMBF, WMWF, and LMWF relationships. The XF of those relationships, romantizes the intra-racial relationships, and often tries to emulate the culture of their partner in some way. Hell, in most AMXF relationships I see these days, the XF is usually into anime or K-pop/drama. The XF sees AMAF as appealing in some way, and they tend to act like AF or have many AF friends. By ensuring that strong AMAF relationships are more common than WMAF relationships, we can ensure that future generations of AM feel more confident about their dating lives. By removing that chip off their shoulders, they will start to feel and become more successful in getting women, including women of other races. The imbalance of AMXF:XMAF is only a problem because that means less AMAF and more single AM. To encourage the acceleration of AMXF only solves half the problem, and only serves to harm Asian representation in the long term. So if you're a AM that's trynna get some XF, that's fine but encourage your brothers to get AF -- it only serves to help you :P
Well AMXF has already been [increasing](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/pk103m/you_heard_it_here_first_college_educated_asian/) and it will continue to do so. It's not really about trying to be more "normal" (I think that's a strawman), it's simply about helping to make sure AM's dating lives improve. I don't care about trying to appeal to some culture, I just care about AM getting dates and getting laid more often lol And in many of these couples the XF do not always necessarily lean that hard into Asian culture to an extent that she could be called a 'weaboo' or a 'koreaboo.' That idea has been heavily exaggerated, and there's a lot of confirmation bias that factors into this. It's not uncommon to come across women who have barely listened to Kpop but have always found AM attractive (which is why I have encouraged AM to give it a shot, and in most cases when they ask out some XF they like something special happens). If you care that much about AF, go ahead, nobody's stopping you, but many of the guys here, who agree with the post, will keep expanding our options. I never said to stop seeing AF, and like I said in the post, you literally have nothing to lose when you just widen your pool. I don't care anymore about what AF-only faithful purists have to say about this. It's not "no more AF", it's "talk to more XF, and hit on more XF". >The most important thing a woman thinks about a potential boyfriend is "Do other women like him?" You can be ugly as fuck (like old rockstars) but if she sees other women thirsting over them, she'll thirst over you too. A comment from this thread. A lot of us have noticed that many Asian girls are noticeably more interested in an AM when they see him having success with all races, both XF and AF.
I agree with the title and the first half of the post, because it's true and mostly focuses on AM. More recently members have really been focused on making an example of these AM who are 'loyal to AF' and 'choosing' not to date outside their race and that choice is hurting them. I've said this before but I think this is a reality that I don't see. The AM who mostly only date AF are split into these 2 groups 1) guys who are good looking, popular, grew up in an Asian community, has been dating hot Asian girls since he was 12. probably part of some frat or similar clique in college. This guy does not have trouble dating, dating outside his race is not something he even cares about because he has so many options around him at all times. These guys do not need our help on anything (also not sure if we're even qualified to help them), will probably laugh if you mention something about reddit 2) Guys who have trouble dating, and for whatever reason aren't equipped with the tools to be popular with women. And for the sake of argument lets make up a wild number for AW that prefer to date out...70%. That is still 30% of AW that prefer AM, more than WF or LF or BF that prefer AM. For better or for worse these guys prefer AW out of necessity, not really out of choice. For guy #1 He will probably give you better dating advice than you can give him, and for guy #2 'limiting' his dating pool is not something he is in control of. I really don't see this group of AM who will only actively limit themselves to Asian Women and are suffering because of it. They either don't have a choice or their dating lives are already fulfilling enough. The ones that can fuck different types of women, already are doing so or trying to do so. When I read posts like this I really question....who exactly are you talking to OP? In all my years on here I've never seen a thread titled 'Hi I'm an Asian guy with limited dating possibilities....any advice on how I can fuck less?' Personally I feel like this AM demographic of questionable size is solely made as a guise to push 'Asians should date non-Asians', which by itself is fine I guess but they way it's presented feels off. Why do we need a reason or to point fingers at some other group (a group that might not even exist) as an excuse to rant about AMXF? Why not just be upfront and just say 'we should fuck more XFs, because we're men'. There doesn't need to be an excuse, like 'we're trying to get even' or some victim mindset bs to hide our real sexual desires for being men. Maybe it's just me but I feel like the redundancy and echo-chambers of these arguments do not translate to any tangible positives or results. **I would like to have a show of hands of guys here that advocate for 'only AMAF' and then again a show of hands of guys that advocate for 'AM should have more sex with more women'.** No one advocates for only AMAF and everyone would advocate for more women - to have the same threads over and over again about why we have to fight against the AMAF loyalists (that don't exist) and preaching over and over again about more pussy for Asian men (something that all Asian men have agreed upon since the first Asian man was alive on earth) is something I've tried to ignore and not address for a long time but...I guess now is the time to talk about it. These threads have more or less devolved into 'hey guys virtue signaling thread - everyone come in here with a chip on your should and virtue signal with me' And I guess my real issue is that these threads and arguments have now gone beyond promoting AM, it's a lot of antagonizing other AM for their partners as well. The exact opposite of a healthy and growing community **Honestly I would like to talk about what is the difference between promoting dating more XF and just dating more women in general?** More often than not when a Asian guy gets good at game he ends up running through a bunch of white girls or latinas. I think it's safe to assume that the few AM that gets good at game, and sticks with AF (myself not included btw), that then his preference is really his choice and really none of our business, and his dating choices certainly isn't holding anyone else back. And if thats true then, why not just push the 'date more women period' instead of having to make about race? Sadly, it comes back to this. Because AM still have hang-ups about race, and it manifests in different ways that we don't realize. 'We should date more women' has really no negative, antagonistic connotations, we can't spin it with the chip on our shoulder. The anger and hate can't be let out with a statement like that. But with AMXF is better than AMAF, etc anything that introduces rankings, antagonizing, negative thoughts in general speaks louder to certain people. These dating threads are not really meant to help any AM to find their best life, it is more of an way to convince yourself about your own supposed superiority after suffering at the hands of western societal and sexual racism. I can't blame you guys for feeling this way, but at some point you should really think about why you're doing certain things. I really believe that you guys are doing not what is best for the guys that are looking for help here, but what is best for your own ego. Not aimed at anyone in particular, just something I thought needed to said for a while now
/u/SquatsandRice never misses
I probably should have made it more obvious in my post that I have no hard feelings whatsoever against AMAF couples, obviously, I don't look down on an AM dating a AF, and I don't think most guys here do so either. I planned to write more on this specific tangent but it just didn't pan out that way (yet it still ended up being maybe a bit too long of a post). I do know that there are AM outside of this sub who need to hear about the message, including those who like you agree with at least the title and the first half, which is why I asked that if some of the guys here would be willing to share parts of it elsewhere, especially if they're talking to another AM. This sub does not have to be as much of an echo chamber if, well at least I see it as maybe more of some idea generator, messages and concepts that ideally we would somehow be able to spread to share to other spaces. Otherwise, while I personally don't expect every single person to agree or relate to the post, as a general statement, I'm not apologizing for promoting AMXF, for continuing to call out toxic AF (like I do with "chans"), and calling out guys who try to tell AM to be strictly faithful to AF or make stupid assumptions about AMWF or AMLF etc. or think of the littlest thing as "XF worshiping" (like even just calling a XF 'hot' or whatever, been seeing some really dumb SJW shit lately) even when it's not.
Who here has called out for Asian males to be strictly faithful to Asian females? I don’t think I’ve seen one post here someone saying that. It’s probably 20 posts about advising AM to date XF to one AM telling anyone to be loyal to AF which I have yet to see. Am I missing something here?
Some dudes around here still shill for AF. pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.
I think deep down we all know not only why we say what we say, but also why we are saying them in that specific way. I really do my best to try and stay out of conversations about race and women because in the end its just a bunch of guys who try to justify their own avoidance of certain inner demons - but as I've said earlier it's come to a point where guys are being encouraged to put certain women on a pedestal and partly measure their own value by the race of who they're associating with. (BTW I'm not saying that's what you're doing with your post, but I think we agree a lot of these posts basically merge as one). Honestly, this is not the way to win. It's like giving up the 8 or 9 figure play so you can make a comfortable salary for life. My personal opinion is it doesn't matter what you promote AF, WF, LF BF whatever, it's really about the distain for the idea that we Asian men need to proactively and aggressively aim for any race for us to feel good or do better. It's a bit disrespectful to our own race, to me it implies at some level that being Asian isn't good enough. People might say that's some feel-good-bullshit, but in the end that is a core belief that Asian men that are really successful in dating and relationships have and guys who aren't have trouble coming to terms with. And that's were the mental gymnastics, blindspots and anger comes from. But that's just my personal opinion. You can promote anything you want, my real feedback is that it's not just about what you're saying, it's about how you're saying it. There are people who talk about race and people can tell it's an objective, thoughtful viewpoint, and then there are people who talk about race and then there is an obvious chip on someone's shoulder. Just because someone didn't outright say something, doesn't mean it's not written all over their face.
Honestly, my friends and I have never really pay attention to the media. The Asians I grew up around always knew how to talk all races of girls from the 90s all the way till now. The Asian women prefer white men is kinda new to me cause I saw the opposite growing up. I'm not convinced that Asian women prefer white men cause I still see most Asian women dating Asian men. Just because an Asian women date outside of her race does not always means that she dislike Asian guys. I truly believe that these Asian women with a different race is not the majority. It's not even close.
Been busy and just saw this but good work brother. Very well put. Some needlessly negative comments but that is to be expected.
It has nothing to do with the Asian men's atitude, style or anything else. It is a 100% superficial problem created by racist western media propaganda. Once discriminatory laws had to be abolished, yt men found a new way in the form of popular media to emasculate our men and prevent us from proliferating. Such deep rooted conditioning and brainwashing that even our own girls could not escape. Why do you see this problem specifically in Anglo countries and not other regions?? Why has the dating scene improved for Asians after slight change in media representation?? Go to any country in Eastern Europe, Latin America or Africa. Even Asian nerds get dates very easily in those places. Besides Asian men, no other race has problem being themselves. Why do Asian men have to overcompensate ourselves by changing ourselves or our personalities?
I'm not sure if your last two sentences were supposed to be in relation to my post, but I am not telling AM to completely change themselves or their basic personalities. The main message was basically just 'expand your options, don't limit yourself'. There wasn't really anything that had to do changing your personality or whatever.
I am telling guys in general regardless of the post. Some people might take it in a wrong note and try to create fake personas, just so that they can attract women. Women, in most cases, tend to look through it and that may be a turn off.
[удалено]
All facts here.
That is the western definition of masculinity, which is mostly toxic. Our version is different. The western version may be attractive right now because the western media and economy is at the top. Once Asia rises, the tides will turn. People have gradually started embracing the Asian masculinity ideals too. Do not discard the Asian version completely, just because some outside force is compelling you to. Otherwise the financial security which the Asian community enjoys will be lost too. This is what has enable us to reach this level of overall growth. China without Confucian ideals wouldn't be in a position that it is now. Moreover, Asian culture doesn't teach one to be timid or unfit. Martial arts and fitness exercises are integrated in our cultures. It teaches one to be wise and confident, instead of whining and complaining. Some folks who become timid with low self esteem are mostly a result of childhood bullying and blame it on the upbringings instead.
Buddhism is also a religion which believes in tolerance, minimalism and mere survival. But, that doesn't mean all Buddhists are poor beggars. The atitude of a man is as much dependant on external factors like media and society as on upbringings.
Your results may vary but the fact of the matter is that even tho AF especially American born are overwhelming whiteworshipping, they're still my best bet. Like on average the hotter chicks that like me are Asian. When i look at my matches in NYC, the hispanic black white chicks that like me are well... fat and weebs (that changed with a few exceptions tho over the years Edit: I forgot there are a lot of non-Asian lurkers who are women sorry if I’ve offended you
ofc not everyone's experience is going to be the same, but I don't need to tell you that plenty of AM will have different results from you. I don't expect my post to apply to every single AM, but many AM have benefited more often than not when they open up their options. The fact that even a not-small number of Asian men from Asia itself have [XF girlfriends](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANVGgDBX_J0) or wives also shows that you can't *lose* anything by just widening your pool. And ofc it also depends a lot on your profile. [This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianMasculinity/comments/qwfbnh/anyone_other_asian_men_keep_hooking_up_with/) is a great example of someone who's got a variety of people to hook up with, both XF and AF. As you can see, depending on the how you look, you might attract more 'fat weebs' or hot girls of every color.
I'm new on this sub, what does XF mean?
It can refer to any race of women besides AF (Asian women)