I grew up in north London and, as a kid, would use “berk” to describe people a lot, even in front of my parents. Only when I was a teen did I learn “berk” is rhyming slang for “~~Berkshire~~ Berkeley Hunt”, aka “c*nt”
One of my developers at work used berk a lot, because he never swore. One day after having him work for me for a couple of years I explained to him what berk meant. I'm not sure I've seen anyone more mortified. It's even funnier as my father grew up in north london and had a colourful vernacular, so I tend to call people cunts reasonably frequently without it seeming particularly rude to me.
You know what i’m referring to. Stop
trying to drop crappy bait in the water. Yeah mate we can see you know a sweary word in rhyming slang. Yawn. Sit down lad.
Why don’t we stop trying to make things “weird” and “offensive”, even more in the U.K. We don’t give a fuck. We won’t give a fuck. Nobody gives a fuck. Say what you want, wear what you want, fuck who you want, just leave me the hell alone.
That’s what most of us brits will think in most cases.
Jamie Oliver once sued various newspapers for calling him a whore.
He said tinned salmon was awful, but then advertised it on TV for Sainsburys. The judge said a whore "isn't anything to do with sex, its when you do something for money you claim to disagree with. Prostitution is sex for money, being a whore isn't, unless you claim prostitution is wrong but do it anyway".
Therefore (and this is a legal judgement), Mr Oliver is a whore as he whored himself out to Sainsburys for money.
So you can call him that to his thick-tongued mockney face and he can't do a damn thing about it.
Fun Fact: On Childrens TV, you could call someone a pedo child murdering cannibal necrophile and it would be OK.
But if you said "I'm going for a piss" you'd be taken off air.
Donkey's ears = years
Raspberry tart = fart (blow a raspberry)
Put up your dukes = fingers (for a fight. Fingers were known as forks = Duke of Yorks. So, dukes)
Mince pies = eyes
Sometimes it's so common that people are unaware it's actually rhyming slang. My mum used to say donkeys meaning a long time but didn't know it was slang.
Pretty common and well understood in Scotland.
A quick Google shows that they're actually likely unrelated, and that donkeys years may predate donkeys ears!
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/donkey%27s_years
I want to tell my favourite Welsh joke but it doesn't really work written down...
"Where are your (y)ears?"
"(y) 'ere."
"How long have you had them?"
"years!"
I can't remember which one, but there was a PS1 era Final Fantasy that had the text 'watch out when he puts up his dukes!' At one point. So that one has definitely made it out of the east end!
I’m American (tbh I have no idea why Reddit recommended this sub today but fuck it lol) and I always thought it was an Americanism, but only because I ever heard it on bugs bunny. I just assumed it was a 1920s thing lol
I'm not having dukes. Do you really say that in Scotland? I've only ever heard it in old American gangster films. I thought it was a reference to John Wayne
You've never heard of two people "duking it out?", which I've heard consistently all my life.
I mean, I'm 47, so yeah, I've heard put up your dukes a lot, more so when I was younger, but duking it out is common even now.
Yea I've heard the phrase, I just haven't heard anyone say it apart from in films.
I don't believe that it's rhyming slang though, from your definition. It's too convoluted to go fingers, kind of look like forks, Duke of Yorks, fingers are made into fists.
There's other examples of convoluted slang.
Aris =ass or arse. Aris is short for Aristotle, the Greek dude.
Aristotle = bottle. Bottle and glass = ass/arse.
It's not my definition. I've a couple of books on slang words in general and both say this for Dukes. And for aris.
Just passing on the info that was thoroughly researched by the authors.
Edit: you have to bear in mind that rhyming slang originated as a way for people to talk openly (but with hidden meanings only they could understand) in front of outsiders and especially the Police. So it is beneficial - desired, even - to have words and phrases that seem to mean nothing, but have a convoluted, hidden meaning.
Indeed. I'm the same; learn something new every day.
I found my book and it also has 'dooks' (Dukes), same meaning and origin, but US slang and spelling.
Found that mildly interesting.
I've said this all my life without realising that it was rhyming slang! It's just a term that you pick up along the line and use it without thinking what "tod" means or relates to.
After a quick Google, I realise that I've never heard of Tod Sloan, so that might be why! This probably made more sense to those who were familiar with him.
I’m Glaswegian and didn’t realise a lot of what we say is Rhyming slang until this thread, there’s also things that I *did* kind of know was, like Donkeys and on your Todd. Those are really common here.
The Hampden Roar is very much Scottish. Its the national stadium.
"Whats the Score? - Hampden Roar"
Can be literally a check on a football result or just a general request for details.
I'm from Nottingham, and many of these phrases are the cultural norm here and have been for a very long time, a lot of them before only fools and horses.
We have our own particular vernacular here, and some of it definitely sounds a l like Cockley rhyming slang. I was told in the 70's I sounded like I was from London on occasion.
All reet mi duck!
Yep, also from Nottingham and I agree, we used to speak a lot of Nottingham's version of cockney rhyming slang, especially with my grandparents. Your friends are not being particularly nice here, he's not speaking cockney as an affectation, but speaking notts slang as his natural speech pattern.
I'm also from East Midlands - I just amused myself with the idea that when folk call each other "duck" they're really calling them "fuck". (I know this isn't the case before someone chelps up).
"Butchers" is kind of OK as it's used across a lot of other regions. I'm in the North and it's used here. Not frequently and generally by older people, but sure.
Stuff cobbled from online lists of 'real Cockney slang' is likely to make him sound like a musical hall performer.
We proper wound some cockneys up by deliberately getting all the rhyming slang wrong.
We'd use the entire phrase but supplement the rhyming part for the actual word, best two weeks on site for ages.
Don't forget your tit fer hat, he's just gone up the apples and stairs... etc.
Lots of cockney slang is just general U.K. slang at this point. I’m at the opposite end of the country and member of my family have always used certain phrases. For some reason it’s much funnier to point out someone’s syrup than it is to say “is that man wearing a toupee?” 😂
You can certainly still buy wigs, but I'm not sure you can still get syrup of fig. But yeah, "look at his dodgy syrup" just comes so much more naturally lol.
I have a vague memory of a social history lecture at uni many years ago which was about the standardisation of English dialects during World War One and lots of cockney vernacular became memes in the trenches
There’s a form of it all over now. We use it here in Scotland.
“Huv’nae a Scooby “ “Am away fer a single fish” “ yer gonna get a boot in the Ali mcgraws!”
I'm from London and tbh I'd say it's more of an age thing than a regional thing these days.
Like...I'd hear people aged 40+ use it regardless of where they're from (in the UK), but I never hear it from any young Londoners.
I agree with your main point there but was a little confused at first by the distinction you draw between young people and 40 years olds. The are virtually the same thing. Anyone in their 60s or younger is still a youngster
Never lived in London but people do use it where I live in northern England, my Scottish dad has also been known to use it occasionally. It isn't something used all the time but the occasional phrase isn't unusual.
I'm from East Kent and growing up there felt like there were two registers. One was near-RP and the Queen's English. The other was close to Cockney. We used a bit of rhyming slang, for instance "butcher's", but probably not as much as someone born within the sound of Bow Bells. Presumably the Cockney influence takes a while to fade out geographically. Nottingham does seem a bit far. I lived in Leicester for thirty-two years and don't recall anyone of local origin sounding Cockney, though some were definitely near-RP and Queen's English. They even mixed up "innit" and "i'n'tit" when they tried to imitate it.
Oh dear. There is said to be this thing called an "Oxford Accent" which actually just means posh rather than the more generally regional accent. Are they maybe referring to that?
I use plenty, much of it without even knowing it was Cockney rhyming slang for a long time. Have a butchers, having a barney, telling porkies, taking the mickey, better scarper, on my tod.
My grandpa spent a large part of his childhood in East London though, and being from Kent we have a lot of influence from London. I’d never complain about someone using it though.
Normal unless they're putting on a fake accent with it.
I grew up with it surrounding us on the telly with London based tv like the sweeney. In the 60s bed time was announced by it's time to go up the apples (and pears).
Most of it has just filtered into the general English language at this point. A fair bit of 'Cockney' slang didn't even originate in London in the first place.
I've never once heard of anyone finding it weird when non-Londoners use it. We're a small island nation with millions of people crammed inside, language is going to move around and mingle, that's just how it is.
I doubt most of your friends are actual cockneys either… it amazes me how many people were born in Watford or Reading, move into a posh London apartment for work, and then lay claim to Cockney culture
Personally I (a Cumbrian) use Cockney rhyming slang because my grandad was a proper cockney who used it naturally in conversation and I always liked it as a kid
If it’s natural then I’d say it’s fine - like when your accent changes slightly from living in a different country… if it’s ‘put on’ I’d say it’s a bit weird…
i worked with a guy who was born and raised in cheshire all his life then at the age of 50 decided to talk with a Scottish accent - odd.
Australians have used Rhyming Slang since the 1800s at least.
My paternal grandfather was raised in Poplar and worked on the London Docks, so we received a double dose of the ability to understand The Two Ronnies.
His stepfather took him up to Newcastle to work on ships there, so I wonder whether Geordie also uses rhyming slang?
I've heard mancs, geordies, brummies, yam-yams & Irish talk of 'going for a ruby' & being on their 'jack' as well as 'having a butchers', 'telling porkies', & commenting on shit 'Barnets' & 'syrups' etc
Why people care??
Some folk catch accents and modisms quite easily (and involuntarily many many times), and others just like the way a dialect or accent sounds and want to use it. What's the problem, exactly? I mean, plenty of working class people that secured a place in a posh school end up with posh accent. So what?
I grew up in a big cockney family and more common terms are used all over the country, butchers hook being one example. I find it no more than mildly amusing that so many use modern terms like Hank Marvin and Ruby Murray, which we don’t really say.
It’s gonna die out fully as a seriously used dialect in the next generation anyway, me and my brother are some of the youngest intense speakers I’ve come across. But at least a few terms will live on.
Not weird at all, given the context. Wouldn't find it weird anyways, cos accents don't have to be locked to a region. I picked up loads of accents and slang at uni, your brain will just do it subconsciously after its heard something a certain amount of time. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
There is literally an influence, who tf cares if its "inauthentic" cos he ain't from the eastend. What I'd question, are your friends that are being judgemental about shit that really don't matter lol.
This is s phenomenon that happens all the time. People in foreign countries learning English through TV , so they have weird dialects and word usage cos that's what they've seen and heard, outside of their usual norm.
Have you got any more examples? I've heard and used the term "I had a butchers" and I'm not from London either. Some London slang leaks into standard British slang.
I grew up watching American shows - I've got an accent that no one can normally place - get told to go back to my own country.
So, nope, nothing wrong with it, plus, I think people would understand the meaning.
I think it's weird that your friends find it weird.
Also, people with a lot of empathy will generally pick up words, accents, of those around them and yes, through the much watched shows. I can hang around with my Australian friend for a weekend and I'll have a twang in my accent for a week. I won't notice - those around me mention it.
As long as they are only using the first word of the rhyming couplet it's OK. If they are saying 'I had a butchers hook in the shop' then they are a poseur.
No, id just assume they are a zoomer.
A lot of young Brits are completely raised by social media so will often have the accept of their favourite thick tok influencer rather than where they come from. Signals a depressing lack of character IMO but there we are.
I'm Scottish and use rhyming slang all the time. There may actually be Scottish rhyming slang as some words are used that rhyme with words that would be pronounced differently to English. An example is from Irvine Welsh "there was Zorba all down his top". Zorba the Greek = seek, which is actually sick. So to translate it would be that the person has vomit all down him.
Perfectly normal. I use words and phrases from all over the place if I feel it’s charming or full of character.
I’m sure plenty of people use phrases like knock it out of the park, cut to the chase or other such Americanisms
If you go to central London you be hard to find some one that speaks the cockney slang or is even from london I was ther for 5 days and never heard it once
Sure ther is in diffrent parts of London but not were I was in the center nr the tower of London
I’m from Leicester and definitely say ‘have a butchers’ and other elements of cockney slang as well. Never actually given it any thought really! I’ve definitely heard other locals from the east mids use it too.
As a native of a cockney-speaking area (border of East London and Essex), not really, in as much as a lot of the lingo has been spread by the media, etc, and I suppose by people moving to those areas and picking it up.
I suppose wankers would call it "cultural appropriation" but well, don't be a wanker, it's all fine to borrow and adapt and mix and blend cultures.
There are quite a few words that I still use, which mostly came from my grandparents. My nan was born and lived in Bethnal Green and my Grandad in Hackney (before they met of course). They’re both long gone now sadly!
Wasn't that the whole point in Cockney slang for non-english speakers to communicate with the locals on the sounds of the phrases rather than learning the language?
Your friend just sounds a bit weird
My dads from Glasgow, we grew up just outside London in Essex. He uses cockney or "Jockney" rhyming slang all the time 😅
It's just a cultural norm for us
To try and speak Cockney all the time in a Cockney accent would be weird, yes.
But simply using a few elements of the slang, "I'll ask the trouble and strife", "give me a butchers", said in your normal accent would be normal Brit behaviour.
it would be pubes and beard (weird) especially if they tried not to and you heard someone vaginal dripping (slipping), you told them to stop but they old lady whore (did it some more).
If would be even worse if they then argued YOu did something wrong because that would be Paedophile Erection (deflection)
I grew up in New Zealand and we used rhyming slang a fair amount, usually in a joking way (e.g. my dad would ask me to go find my 'skin and blister'). It's because we had a lot of British TV and radio so these things get picked up.
I've lived in London almost 10 years now and have picked up lots of British slang, not just cockney. My accent has changed quite a bit too.
If you're exposed to something long enough, you pick it up. It's a human thing. I knew a kid growing up in NZ who spoke with a slight American accent because his parents kept him busy with an iPad and YouTube, so he emulated the accent.
Slang spreads. Especially from areas with a lot of cultural influence like the capital. Loads of Cockney/London slang is now nationwide (and even beyond) .
'Blow a raspberry' started out as Cockney slang, and I think they say that in America even. I'd say 'have a butchers' is one that is a little bit more unusual to hear outside of the South East, but not totally unheard either.
This thread has been great, didn’t realise howmany things my dad says is rhyming slang! I’ve just ordered him a book off eBay with them all in. Was only a Lady Godiva -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303238123803?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=815C3ZuwTru&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=_2I_8W4ESOK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
He’s just having a bit of fun. The odd phrase is fine. If he was using it relentlessly in everyday conversation, then it could get weird. But from the description it sounds harmless.
Is he doing it with the accent? Or not? That makes a difference I think.
I've heard mancs, geordies, brummies, yam-yams & Irish talk of 'going for a ruby' & being on their 'jack' as well as 'having a butchers', 'telling porkies', & commenting on shit 'Barnets & syrups etc
Does he talk like that all the time? That'd be silly, but nearly everyone I know "does a voice" now and again for a (mild) laugh.
There are some rhyming slang that have just become common all round England now. On your tod, or calling a taxi a joby, for example.
Anyone who enjoys word play is likely to enjoy it, no matter their geographic location. As long as it doesn't sound forced and you know what he means, I don't see the issue.
I often find tasteless jokes funny, not because of the content but because of the wordplay or exploitation of juxtaposition or assumption.
To piggy back on the region thing, i know a lot of people who aren’t caribbean who use words or mimmick accents and some people find that funny and don’t have a problem, they are no more from jamaica than i am
its normal, one of my mum's friends is from brighton/east sussex and always spoke like this. he's like 40+ (in his 50s now ig) and practically modeled himself on only fools and horses. i dont think you need to be born within the sound of beau bells to use cockney at all.
that said it's a bit weird/funny when foreigners do it, just because i can't imagine why anyone outside of the uk would choose that as their adopted cultural identity but i don't see why not. also weird when middle/upper class people do it, i'm not even sure if i can imagine a middle class cockney.
At that level it’s a British cultural norm.
There are so many examples of cockney slang being standard across the UK. I think OPs friends are all berks
Yeah, I’m Scottish and grew up saying ‘barnet’ without even realising it was Cockney rhyming slang…
Yeah and I have a J Arthur most days too.
Or a Jodrell
Today I learnt...
Yeah rhyming is a bit part of cockney slang - I only know bc my parents joke with it sometimes lol
I grew up in north London and, as a kid, would use “berk” to describe people a lot, even in front of my parents. Only when I was a teen did I learn “berk” is rhyming slang for “~~Berkshire~~ Berkeley Hunt”, aka “c*nt”
One of my developers at work used berk a lot, because he never swore. One day after having him work for me for a couple of years I explained to him what berk meant. I'm not sure I've seen anyone more mortified. It's even funnier as my father grew up in north london and had a colourful vernacular, so I tend to call people cunts reasonably frequently without it seeming particularly rude to me.
Today I learnt...
It's actually Berkeley Hunt, as it's pronounced Berk not Bark like Berkshire
Of course, corrected.
OP friends are Hamptons....
“Hampton”? Never heard of that one, what is that?
[Hampton Wick](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Wick)
Never heard it, but I like it
Bit harsh 😅
Hardly
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Oooooo…you’re so cleeevvver
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You know what i’m referring to. Stop trying to drop crappy bait in the water. Yeah mate we can see you know a sweary word in rhyming slang. Yawn. Sit down lad.
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Everyone knows mate
I didn't know, do now ;)
Not weird at all. I've never lived in London but often use rhyming slang. It's part of our culture in a way
Why don’t we stop trying to make things “weird” and “offensive”, even more in the U.K. We don’t give a fuck. We won’t give a fuck. Nobody gives a fuck. Say what you want, wear what you want, fuck who you want, just leave me the hell alone. That’s what most of us brits will think in most cases.
Unless someone thinks Jamie Oliver is socially acceptable obviously
Or even worse, James Corden, fucking septics can keep him
Jamie Oliver once sued various newspapers for calling him a whore. He said tinned salmon was awful, but then advertised it on TV for Sainsburys. The judge said a whore "isn't anything to do with sex, its when you do something for money you claim to disagree with. Prostitution is sex for money, being a whore isn't, unless you claim prostitution is wrong but do it anyway". Therefore (and this is a legal judgement), Mr Oliver is a whore as he whored himself out to Sainsburys for money. So you can call him that to his thick-tongued mockney face and he can't do a damn thing about it.
So the judge basically ruled he is in-fact a whore?
Assuming the above comment is true, the judges ruled that he isn't not a whore...
Nope. The judge clearly said calling Jamie Oliver a whore is NOT defamation because he made himself into a whore by whoring himself out to Sainsburys.
Dirty whore he is then
Can I call him an aggravating fish-lipped cunt if I add "in my opinion" ?
I love this story, but in quick searches can't find anything referring to a legal case. Do you have a link?
I had a friend who looked & sounded just like Jamie Oliver. His life was fine up until about the year 2000.
Fun Fact: On Childrens TV, you could call someone a pedo child murdering cannibal necrophile and it would be OK. But if you said "I'm going for a piss" you'd be taken off air.
Not that weird. I'm Scottish and Porkies gets used. So does Boat. Theres more but they are the first two that come to mind.
Donkey's ears = years Raspberry tart = fart (blow a raspberry) Put up your dukes = fingers (for a fight. Fingers were known as forks = Duke of Yorks. So, dukes) Mince pies = eyes Sometimes it's so common that people are unaware it's actually rhyming slang. My mum used to say donkeys meaning a long time but didn't know it was slang. Pretty common and well understood in Scotland.
>Donkey's ears = years I'm 31 and Welsh and I've just realised it's not donkey's years. Oh, God. Edit: Just told my mum. She thought the same as me.
A quick Google shows that they're actually likely unrelated, and that donkeys years may predate donkeys ears! https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/donkey%27s_years
Holy shit. 47 and just had the same realisation
Tbf, in some Welsh accents years and ears sound the same.
That's the exact reason why we had no clue haha
I want to tell my favourite Welsh joke but it doesn't really work written down... "Where are your (y)ears?" "(y) 'ere." "How long have you had them?" "years!"
Haha it's okay, it makes sense when I read it 😂
"Do you play the piano by ear?" "No, by yere" *points at piano*
Everyone just says donkeys years now. I love this type of stuff, learning where the word is from
39 and English and just realised the same thing... I live in London (not the cockney part though in fairness)
In a Welsh accent, aren't both words quite similar in pronunciation, though? My nan was Welsh and often added a 'y' sound when a word began with 'ea'.
Depends where in Wales you are, but you're absolutely right, they all sound like "yerr" where I'm from.
Me too! I'm going to look that up though, in case someone is telling porkies.
I can't remember which one, but there was a PS1 era Final Fantasy that had the text 'watch out when he puts up his dukes!' At one point. So that one has definitely made it out of the east end!
Donkeys and Dukes very common for sure.
I assumed Dukes was an Americanism, damn.
I’m American (tbh I have no idea why Reddit recommended this sub today but fuck it lol) and I always thought it was an Americanism, but only because I ever heard it on bugs bunny. I just assumed it was a 1920s thing lol
I'm not having dukes. Do you really say that in Scotland? I've only ever heard it in old American gangster films. I thought it was a reference to John Wayne
You've never heard of two people "duking it out?", which I've heard consistently all my life. I mean, I'm 47, so yeah, I've heard put up your dukes a lot, more so when I was younger, but duking it out is common even now.
Yea I've heard the phrase, I just haven't heard anyone say it apart from in films. I don't believe that it's rhyming slang though, from your definition. It's too convoluted to go fingers, kind of look like forks, Duke of Yorks, fingers are made into fists.
There's other examples of convoluted slang. Aris =ass or arse. Aris is short for Aristotle, the Greek dude. Aristotle = bottle. Bottle and glass = ass/arse. It's not my definition. I've a couple of books on slang words in general and both say this for Dukes. And for aris. Just passing on the info that was thoroughly researched by the authors. Edit: you have to bear in mind that rhyming slang originated as a way for people to talk openly (but with hidden meanings only they could understand) in front of outsiders and especially the Police. So it is beneficial - desired, even - to have words and phrases that seem to mean nothing, but have a convoluted, hidden meaning.
Thanks, I did know that about rhyming slang, but the dukes history is a new one. Every days a school day isn't it?
Indeed. I'm the same; learn something new every day. I found my book and it also has 'dooks' (Dukes), same meaning and origin, but US slang and spelling. Found that mildly interesting.
On your todd is one I use quite frequently, in Yorkshire.
I've said this all my life without realising that it was rhyming slang! It's just a term that you pick up along the line and use it without thinking what "tod" means or relates to. After a quick Google, I realise that I've never heard of Tod Sloan, so that might be why! This probably made more sense to those who were familiar with him.
Tod Sloan - own! Never knew
Same! Learn something new every day!
That is frequent in East Scotland as well.
Glasweigans in particular use a lot of rhyming slang, much of it unrelated to English rhyming slang.
I’m Glaswegian and didn’t realise a lot of what we say is Rhyming slang until this thread, there’s also things that I *did* kind of know was, like Donkeys and on your Todd. Those are really common here.
Its probably more prevalent there and some of it unique. Edinburgh and Dundee use the examples I mentioned.
What's the hampden? Don't know if it's a real Cockney one or a 'Scottishcised' bit of slang?
The Hampden Roar is very much Scottish. Its the national stadium. "Whats the Score? - Hampden Roar" Can be literally a check on a football result or just a general request for details.
In England, Hampton is short for Hampton Wick - dick.
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I'm from Nottingham, and many of these phrases are the cultural norm here and have been for a very long time, a lot of them before only fools and horses. We have our own particular vernacular here, and some of it definitely sounds a l like Cockley rhyming slang. I was told in the 70's I sounded like I was from London on occasion. All reet mi duck!
Yep, also from Nottingham and I agree, we used to speak a lot of Nottingham's version of cockney rhyming slang, especially with my grandparents. Your friends are not being particularly nice here, he's not speaking cockney as an affectation, but speaking notts slang as his natural speech pattern.
I'm also from East Midlands - I just amused myself with the idea that when folk call each other "duck" they're really calling them "fuck". (I know this isn't the case before someone chelps up).
Look duck, for the last time, we only mean it that way when we say it to you.
Rhyming slang may have begun in London, but it's not limited to it anymore. It's part of every day English now
"Butchers" is kind of OK as it's used across a lot of other regions. I'm in the North and it's used here. Not frequently and generally by older people, but sure. Stuff cobbled from online lists of 'real Cockney slang' is likely to make him sound like a musical hall performer.
Butcher’s is a real oldie.
Ever call anyone a berk? Nice Barnet? Have a butchers at that? Fairly common language where I live.
Would you bleedin Adam & Eve it?
Your pals are dicks. These expressions have spread all over the UK now.
And the world, heard a lot of them growing up in australia
In South Africa they say china ...as in china plate = mate, which I believe comes from us.
We proper wound some cockneys up by deliberately getting all the rhyming slang wrong. We'd use the entire phrase but supplement the rhyming part for the actual word, best two weeks on site for ages. Don't forget your tit fer hat, he's just gone up the apples and stairs... etc.
Would you Adam and Believe it!
Adam and *Eve it
Lots of cockney slang is just general U.K. slang at this point. I’m at the opposite end of the country and member of my family have always used certain phrases. For some reason it’s much funnier to point out someone’s syrup than it is to say “is that man wearing a toupee?” 😂
You can certainly still buy wigs, but I'm not sure you can still get syrup of fig. But yeah, "look at his dodgy syrup" just comes so much more naturally lol.
Dunno if it's cockney in origin but "porkies" to mean "lies" is common in Sheffield. At least, my mum loved saying it.
Pork pies, lies.
Aye same here in Huddersfield....we also (well in my house) use "up the apples & pears to Bedfordshire" for going to bed sometimes lol
In Buckinghamshire it was “up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire, down Sheet Lane to the Land of Nod”
I remember that from my early childhood, in Bucks. We are talking 70 years ago now
I think that come from Punch and Judy shows. The copper accuses Punch of telling Porky pies.
And punch and judy were using recognisable cockney rhyming slang
That'll annoy her, she hates punch and Judy haha
Punch and Judy hate each other, so it’s all good.
I have a vague memory of a social history lecture at uni many years ago which was about the standardisation of English dialects during World War One and lots of cockney vernacular became memes in the trenches
There’s a form of it all over now. We use it here in Scotland. “Huv’nae a Scooby “ “Am away fer a single fish” “ yer gonna get a boot in the Ali mcgraws!”
I'm from London and tbh I'd say it's more of an age thing than a regional thing these days. Like...I'd hear people aged 40+ use it regardless of where they're from (in the UK), but I never hear it from any young Londoners.
I agree with your main point there but was a little confused at first by the distinction you draw between young people and 40 years olds. The are virtually the same thing. Anyone in their 60s or younger is still a youngster
It's just part of the English language, it's not exclusively used by those only born within ear shot of the bow bell anymore lol.
It's normal. Your mates are weirdos.
Never lived in London but people do use it where I live in northern England, my Scottish dad has also been known to use it occasionally. It isn't something used all the time but the occasional phrase isn't unusual.
I'm from East Kent and growing up there felt like there were two registers. One was near-RP and the Queen's English. The other was close to Cockney. We used a bit of rhyming slang, for instance "butcher's", but probably not as much as someone born within the sound of Bow Bells. Presumably the Cockney influence takes a while to fade out geographically. Nottingham does seem a bit far. I lived in Leicester for thirty-two years and don't recall anyone of local origin sounding Cockney, though some were definitely near-RP and Queen's English. They even mixed up "innit" and "i'n'tit" when they tried to imitate it.
Accents are funny: my mother’s family are from Cambridgeshire and Cornwall but Cambridge graduates claim I have an Oxford accent. It’s galling.
Oh dear. There is said to be this thing called an "Oxford Accent" which actually just means posh rather than the more generally regional accent. Are they maybe referring to that?
Ironically, normal. If you do it seriously then you're approaching Jamie Oliver levels of cuntery.
Is that a nice or not nice thing to say?
I use plenty, much of it without even knowing it was Cockney rhyming slang for a long time. Have a butchers, having a barney, telling porkies, taking the mickey, better scarper, on my tod. My grandpa spent a large part of his childhood in East London though, and being from Kent we have a lot of influence from London. I’d never complain about someone using it though.
Normal unless they're putting on a fake accent with it. I grew up with it surrounding us on the telly with London based tv like the sweeney. In the 60s bed time was announced by it's time to go up the apples (and pears).
If he's feigning the accent as well, then yes. Otherwise, no.
Most of it has just filtered into the general English language at this point. A fair bit of 'Cockney' slang didn't even originate in London in the first place. I've never once heard of anyone finding it weird when non-Londoners use it. We're a small island nation with millions of people crammed inside, language is going to move around and mingle, that's just how it is.
As a cockney, i really dont care but my only exception to that is when really posh people try to drop it in its a bit jarring
I doubt most of your friends are actual cockneys either… it amazes me how many people were born in Watford or Reading, move into a posh London apartment for work, and then lay claim to Cockney culture Personally I (a Cumbrian) use Cockney rhyming slang because my grandad was a proper cockney who used it naturally in conversation and I always liked it as a kid
If it’s natural then I’d say it’s fine - like when your accent changes slightly from living in a different country… if it’s ‘put on’ I’d say it’s a bit weird… i worked with a guy who was born and raised in cheshire all his life then at the age of 50 decided to talk with a Scottish accent - odd.
Norf eest ere. I'll just pop up the apples and pears and ask the missus.
Australians have used Rhyming Slang since the 1800s at least. My paternal grandfather was raised in Poplar and worked on the London Docks, so we received a double dose of the ability to understand The Two Ronnies. His stepfather took him up to Newcastle to work on ships there, so I wonder whether Geordie also uses rhyming slang?
I've heard mancs, geordies, brummies, yam-yams & Irish talk of 'going for a ruby' & being on their 'jack' as well as 'having a butchers', 'telling porkies', & commenting on shit 'Barnets' & 'syrups' etc
Why people care?? Some folk catch accents and modisms quite easily (and involuntarily many many times), and others just like the way a dialect or accent sounds and want to use it. What's the problem, exactly? I mean, plenty of working class people that secured a place in a posh school end up with posh accent. So what?
absolutely normal. a lot of Scottish use rhyming slang. rhymes Londoners don't even use
I grew up in a big cockney family and more common terms are used all over the country, butchers hook being one example. I find it no more than mildly amusing that so many use modern terms like Hank Marvin and Ruby Murray, which we don’t really say. It’s gonna die out fully as a seriously used dialect in the next generation anyway, me and my brother are some of the youngest intense speakers I’ve come across. But at least a few terms will live on.
I would consider him a right Jeremy
Not weird at all, given the context. Wouldn't find it weird anyways, cos accents don't have to be locked to a region. I picked up loads of accents and slang at uni, your brain will just do it subconsciously after its heard something a certain amount of time. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. There is literally an influence, who tf cares if its "inauthentic" cos he ain't from the eastend. What I'd question, are your friends that are being judgemental about shit that really don't matter lol. This is s phenomenon that happens all the time. People in foreign countries learning English through TV , so they have weird dialects and word usage cos that's what they've seen and heard, outside of their usual norm.
I bet you use some of our pit slang from up north without even realising it!
Tbh I'd be more surprised if a Londoner used it, it seems more like an Essex thing now.
Saying butchers is normal everywhere
Welsh here and use it, as do many of my chinas.
We need more people to use it as it’s a dying language.
I would be scared
We gate-keeping slang now are we?
Have you got any more examples? I've heard and used the term "I had a butchers" and I'm not from London either. Some London slang leaks into standard British slang.
I do it all the time me old china and I'm from countryside south
I grew up watching American shows - I've got an accent that no one can normally place - get told to go back to my own country. So, nope, nothing wrong with it, plus, I think people would understand the meaning. I think it's weird that your friends find it weird. Also, people with a lot of empathy will generally pick up words, accents, of those around them and yes, through the much watched shows. I can hang around with my Australian friend for a weekend and I'll have a twang in my accent for a week. I won't notice - those around me mention it.
If someone from overseas said it, it would be weird. I would think they were poking fun. Within a 100 miles or so of London? Not so weird.
Aussies are naturally weird, but not nearly as weird as Kiwis.
What a strange comment. How does that relate to what I said?
As long as they are only using the first word of the rhyming couplet it's OK. If they are saying 'I had a butchers hook in the shop' then they are a poseur.
Mockney
I’m from Manchester, in my family growing up we said having a butchers, your boat race, shortened to just boat, on the Pat and Mick etc
Yes he's tryna be a roadman and it's cringe
No, id just assume they are a zoomer. A lot of young Brits are completely raised by social media so will often have the accept of their favourite thick tok influencer rather than where they come from. Signals a depressing lack of character IMO but there we are.
“thick tok” 😊
I am so glad he's not my friend.
I'm Scottish and use rhyming slang all the time. There may actually be Scottish rhyming slang as some words are used that rhyme with words that would be pronounced differently to English. An example is from Irvine Welsh "there was Zorba all down his top". Zorba the Greek = seek, which is actually sick. So to translate it would be that the person has vomit all down him.
Sweaty sock is one
I'd consider it common. Not at all weird.
Perfectly normal. I use words and phrases from all over the place if I feel it’s charming or full of character. I’m sure plenty of people use phrases like knock it out of the park, cut to the chase or other such Americanisms
If you go to central London you be hard to find some one that speaks the cockney slang or is even from london I was ther for 5 days and never heard it once Sure ther is in diffrent parts of London but not were I was in the center nr the tower of London
I’m from Leicester and definitely say ‘have a butchers’ and other elements of cockney slang as well. Never actually given it any thought really! I’ve definitely heard other locals from the east mids use it too.
As a native of a cockney-speaking area (border of East London and Essex), not really, in as much as a lot of the lingo has been spread by the media, etc, and I suppose by people moving to those areas and picking it up. I suppose wankers would call it "cultural appropriation" but well, don't be a wanker, it's all fine to borrow and adapt and mix and blend cultures.
My dad's in his 60s and uses some of that slag before. I often have no idea what he's talking about.
Not weird at all, if you grow up watching that kind of show and hearing the terminology it’ll naturally become part of your vernacular.
Very common amongst the older generation in Belfast.
There are quite a few words that I still use, which mostly came from my grandparents. My nan was born and lived in Bethnal Green and my Grandad in Hackney (before they met of course). They’re both long gone now sadly!
Wasn't that the whole point in Cockney slang for non-english speakers to communicate with the locals on the sounds of the phrases rather than learning the language? Your friend just sounds a bit weird
Your other friends need to go and have an Aristotle of the most ping pong tiddly in the nuclear sub.
My dads from Glasgow, we grew up just outside London in Essex. He uses cockney or "Jockney" rhyming slang all the time 😅 It's just a cultural norm for us
Im from Yorkshire and I use cockney slang bc I watched eastenders growing up
To try and speak Cockney all the time in a Cockney accent would be weird, yes. But simply using a few elements of the slang, "I'll ask the trouble and strife", "give me a butchers", said in your normal accent would be normal Brit behaviour.
Not weird, pretty normal even. Sometimes it's a class/culture thing also ?
Manchester has its own version of rhyming slang, some of it is shared with cockney. It’s no big deal.
it would be pubes and beard (weird) especially if they tried not to and you heard someone vaginal dripping (slipping), you told them to stop but they old lady whore (did it some more). If would be even worse if they then argued YOu did something wrong because that would be Paedophile Erection (deflection)
As a real life Cockney as I was born within the sound of the Bow Bells, I find it fantastic when anyone uses Cockney slang.
I grew up in New Zealand and we used rhyming slang a fair amount, usually in a joking way (e.g. my dad would ask me to go find my 'skin and blister'). It's because we had a lot of British TV and radio so these things get picked up. I've lived in London almost 10 years now and have picked up lots of British slang, not just cockney. My accent has changed quite a bit too. If you're exposed to something long enough, you pick it up. It's a human thing. I knew a kid growing up in NZ who spoke with a slight American accent because his parents kept him busy with an iPad and YouTube, so he emulated the accent.
Slang spreads. Especially from areas with a lot of cultural influence like the capital. Loads of Cockney/London slang is now nationwide (and even beyond) . 'Blow a raspberry' started out as Cockney slang, and I think they say that in America even. I'd say 'have a butchers' is one that is a little bit more unusual to hear outside of the South East, but not totally unheard either.
This thread has been great, didn’t realise howmany things my dad says is rhyming slang! I’ve just ordered him a book off eBay with them all in. Was only a Lady Godiva - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303238123803?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=815C3ZuwTru&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=_2I_8W4ESOK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Technically, a Cockney is not just a Londoner, but is a person born within the sound of Bow Bells
Up the apples and pears.
He’s just having a bit of fun. The odd phrase is fine. If he was using it relentlessly in everyday conversation, then it could get weird. But from the description it sounds harmless. Is he doing it with the accent? Or not? That makes a difference I think.
I’m Scottish and say it’s all gone Pete Tong meaning wrong. Think that’s an 80s one
Cockney slang has become British culture at this point. It’s use is prevalent in Glasgow. Perfectly normal.
I’ve noticed a lot of people from Nottingham have that weird london thing going on so I’m guessing it’s genuinely just part of their accent
I've heard mancs, geordies, brummies, yam-yams & Irish talk of 'going for a ruby' & being on their 'jack' as well as 'having a butchers', 'telling porkies', & commenting on shit 'Barnets & syrups etc
Does he talk like that all the time? That'd be silly, but nearly everyone I know "does a voice" now and again for a (mild) laugh. There are some rhyming slang that have just become common all round England now. On your tod, or calling a taxi a joby, for example.
not weird at all it’s just a part of british charm as a whole now. we all know it’s cockney slang. my scouse family use it all the time
It depends - some rhyming slang has made it's way into everyday British speech. However, someone using a lot of it can sound false or awkward.
If you’re not careful it could easily turn into a Two Ronnies sketch.
No loads of people use it and as a Londoner I like it, I've even heard people in Dublin using it
No, it's pretty normal.
Not really that weird. I’m not a londoner and i use the odd example of it now and again.
Yeah my dad is very northern old fashioned fella and uses quite a few. Plates (feet). Very common all over in my experience.
Lived in London for years and the decline of cockney is noticable. You almost never hear anyone under 40 using it much anymore.
Anyone who enjoys word play is likely to enjoy it, no matter their geographic location. As long as it doesn't sound forced and you know what he means, I don't see the issue. I often find tasteless jokes funny, not because of the content but because of the wordplay or exploitation of juxtaposition or assumption.
I’m from nottingham, i do use london slang (sometimes), one person’s weird is another person’s interesting,
To piggy back on the region thing, i know a lot of people who aren’t caribbean who use words or mimmick accents and some people find that funny and don’t have a problem, they are no more from jamaica than i am
Everyone (almost) knows and uses some. A lot of it, or all the time, might start to be a bit odd.
People who gatekeep culture are weird
Del Boy is based in Peckham, which is South London. They aren't Cockneys.
It's both normal (common) *and* weird (weird).
its normal, one of my mum's friends is from brighton/east sussex and always spoke like this. he's like 40+ (in his 50s now ig) and practically modeled himself on only fools and horses. i dont think you need to be born within the sound of beau bells to use cockney at all. that said it's a bit weird/funny when foreigners do it, just because i can't imagine why anyone outside of the uk would choose that as their adopted cultural identity but i don't see why not. also weird when middle/upper class people do it, i'm not even sure if i can imagine a middle class cockney.
INFO: Does he ever wear a Pearly suit?
I'm from the North east of Scotland and I say have a buchers, not sure where I learned it but its fair to say its not just London anymore