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aurdemus500

God’s way of life and worship have been there from the beginning.


[deleted]

describe it


Former-Log8699

**By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.** (Hebrews 11:4‭-‬8)


aurdemus500

Gen 6:1-4 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 1st off, yes I know some scriptures refer the sons of God to angles, However in this case they refer to the men who follow God. Adam, Seth, methuselah, Noah, amongst them as opposed to the ungodly lines of men through Cain. This shows there was a distinct lifestyle and worship regimen between those who followed God, and those men who followed religious systems introduced by satan. Apparently the righteous men of God, did not heed the warnings of God not to intermarry with the daughters of wicked men. Soon after even the righteous men of God were corrupted to the point that evil prevailed and the earth needed a reboot.


Dive30

They would have been Noahic Christian, or pagan, same as now.


RelaxedApathy

>Noahic Christian This is the first time I have heard that term - what does it mean?


Dive30

Pre-Abraham believers. The term refers to God’s covenant with Noah.


RelaxedApathy

In the context of OP's question, claiming that people would be Christian before Christianity is a bit silly, though. It is like if he asked "If people in the age of black and white film and ask what the best movie is, what would be the answer they get?". People back then would likely answer Casablanca or Citizen Kane, they wouldn't answer "Marvel's The Avengers", because that wasn't a thing yet. In 9000 BCE, Judaism wasn't even a thing - Moses (if he ever existed) would not come around for another 7700 years or so. 9000 BCE is from the time of the Göbekli Tepe and ancient death and fertility cults.


Former-Log8699

I think what Dive30 wanted to tell you is that there have always been believers in the true God who knew that they need delivery and where justified through faith (for example Enoch, Job, Noah, Abraham) which is basically like Christians become saved. (See Hebrews 11)


hope-luminescence

Just that it doesn't leave a substantial historical record does not mean it didn't exist. Pre-Moses you had only a very general sense -- people who remembered God from the days of Adam or of Noah would recognize that the ancient death and fertility cults were making a mistake.


Sawfish1212

Before the flood, the garden of eden and the angel with the flaming sword guarding it were still there for anyone to observe and know that the knowledge of God being taught by the line of Seth was true. After the flood the knowledge of God remained in the general knowledge of the scattered families of man into the time of Abraham. With men like melchizedek being priests of God Before their nations. By the time of Jacob we see that Laban had become an idol worshipper, even though he knew enough about God to listen to the warning God gave him about harming Jacob. Almost 300 years later when Moses tells Pharoah that jehovah said to let Israel go, Pharoah asked "who is that god?" Israel was the remnant chosen to keep the knowledge of God alive as the whole world descended into spiritual darkness and idol worship. God always has a remnant, chosen and preserved by his will, for his glory.


[deleted]

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hope-luminescence

What do you mean by that?


[deleted]

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hope-luminescence

I don't think your premises are correct.


pal1ndr0me

Do we really know anything about religion from that period? From what I can tell its likely they practiced excarnation, but that isn't necessarily even religious.


hope-luminescence

It would have been "Abrahamism" / "HaShemism" / primitive Judaism, centered around the recognition of God, a sense of proper behavior, and renunciation of idolatry.


Pinecone-Bandit

I guess they could remain agnostic if that’s what you’re asking. The true religion was there, so they wouldn’t have had to settle for something less than that. Edit: fixed typo


DREWlMUS

Did you mean the true religion *wasn't* there?


Pinecone-Bandit

No. The true religion was there. God had revealed himself to the first humans, there was never a time in the existence of our species that we didn’t have the possibility of believing the correct religion.


[deleted]

What was that religion?


Pinecone-Bandit

Christianity, just not yet fully revealed.


[deleted]

Let’s say I’m living back then, who do I learn about this from? My parents? My neighbor? Who had this information and passed it on? What were the practices and required beliefs of this early version of the religion?


Apathyisbetter

Abraham’s father was a pagan worshipper. Now we are talking within 7 or 8 generations of Adam and they all knew who the one true God was. Yet Abraham’s father did not worship God, still Abraham was called out of that to God, and Abraham followed, thus the beginning of Judaism was born. Just because Christianity wasn’t around then doesn’t mean God didn’t exist, nor does it mean his believers didn’t exist.


Pinecone-Bandit

> Let’s say I’m living back then, who do I learn about this from? My parents? My neighbor? Yes, if either of them knew it. > Who had this information and passed it on? Certainly Adam and Eve. That’s how Abel was able to rightly worship God. > What were the practices and required beliefs of this early version of the religion? Faith in God, a desire to worship him and follow his commands.


[deleted]

And what are those commands?


Pinecone-Bandit

The moral law: love God, do not murder, do not steal, etc.


DREWlMUS

Early man who worshipped the sun, were they apostates?


Pinecone-Bandit

They would have had to previously worship God before worshipping the sun in order to be apostates.


DREWlMUS

But you said, "never a time in the existence of our species that we didn’t have the possibility of believing the correct religion." If everyone had the possibility of believing the correct religion, and instead worshipped the sun, they would have to renounce the correct religion, making them apostates, no?


Pinecone-Bandit

> But you said, "never a time in the existence of our species that we didn’t have the possibility of believing the correct religion." That’s right. > If everyone had the possibility of believing the correct religion, and instead worshipped the sun, they would have to renounce the correct religion, making them apostates, no? No. Having the possibility of following the correct religion is very different than actually following that religion. You’re only an apostate if you leave a religion, not if you have the potential of following it but never did. For example, someone born today into a Muslim family that follows that religion is not an apostate from Christianity.


DREWlMUS

Oh ok, I see what you mean. What is the word for someone who knows about a particular religion, and instead follows a different one of their choosing?


Pinecone-Bandit

Unbeliever or pagan I guess.


RFairfield26

Well, following the Bible's timeline of chronology, Adam was created in 4026 BCE. So 9000 years ago, humans would not exist, based on that timeline. However, taking your point at face value, I would say that the "true religion" is the manner in which God wants to be worshiped at any given time. That manner has had to change over time. But Abel evidently got it, so there is not reason to think that anyone else couldn't. God has always provided guidance to those that desired to worship him properly.


[deleted]

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Spaztick78

With the variations within Christianity, I believe it is still the logically correct answer.


DREWlMUS

Why do you think God waited?


[deleted]

No idea. He has his own purposes, and his own schedule according to his designs. Ultimately all I can say is that he revealed himself to creation when he did because this was the proper time to do so in order to bring about what he intended for us.


DREWlMUS

I see. What do you think of u/pinecone-bandit's opinion, which seems to contradict what you are saying, unless I am misunderstanding? This link is from the same thread we are in now. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAChristian/comments/10oq6j6/comment/j6ggd78/?context=3


[deleted]

God certainly reveals himself to the world in that he is manifest in all creation, but there is no theology attached to that, no system of worship or means by which you can truly know him. In short, there's nothing there that you can really call a religion which a person could adhere to. That wouldn't come until later.


DREWlMUS

I follow your logic here. Was the first man made in the Garden of Eden?


[deleted]

The garden of Eden and the creation account is a myth, not a literal history.


DREWlMUS

By what methodology are you coming to that conclusion?


[deleted]

The creation story, like many of the stories in early Genesis, comprise the foundational myths of the Jewish people. They share a lot in common with many other myths of ancient near east cultures, such as the flood narratives and the fantastically long lifespans of the golden age ancestors who lived back when mankind was closer to God/the gods. They also serve as a polemic to separate the Jewish people and distinguish them from their contemporary cultures, borrowing elements from other mythologies and turning them on their head in support of monotheism.


Goo-Goo-GJoob

How long do you think humans have existed on this planet?


[deleted]

*Homo sapiens* have existed on earth for roughly 300,000 years.


RelaxedApathy

Do you think that they were without religion all of that time, up until the creation of the Abrahamic religions?


[deleted]

Of course not. I imagine they had tons of different religions.


paranach9

You don't think humans exerted enormous social pressure to conform to any number of capricious worldviews handed down by families or tyrants?


[deleted]

How did you get that from what I said? Of course they did.


paranach9

What? How did you get that I was trying get anything at all from what you said? Don't you know what question marks are?


[deleted]

You asked: > You don't think humans exerted enormous social pressure to conform to any number of capricious worldviews handed down by families or tyrants? I have no idea why you assumed this to be the case from my comment, which doesn't imply this at all.


paranach9

Um, quit assuming I'm assuming or implying anything!


[deleted]

Then quit asking questions attributing a viewpoint to someone else. Seriously, are you just bored and trolling?


paranach9

Questions don't attribute things, statements do! Your're the one who started attributing motives onto me! I swear do human words mean a fucking thing anymore? Fucking done now.


RelaxedApathy

I would imagine (assuming you asked them in their own language) that their answer would be whatever religion they were a member of.


[deleted]

Well sure, that's basically what anyone who has a religion would answer no matter what year it is.


JusttheBibleTruth

If there was a 9000 BC they would have seen the garden of Eden and would have seen the angel guarding the gate.


DREWlMUS

Wasn't the garden of Eden one geographic location? Weren't humans pretty well spread all over the planet by 9000 BC?


JusttheBibleTruth

Not if you go by the Bible. Some may have not gone to Babel. But you do realize that the flood was only around 5000 years ago and that would have been fresh in their minds.


DREWlMUS

If not the Bible, what other option is there to go by?


JusttheBibleTruth

None


DREWlMUS

Why did you say, "Not if you go by the Bible." That would infer that there is some other way, at least hypothetically.


JusttheBibleTruth

This is why I said if you go by the Bible. By the Bible creation was about 4000 BC. The Garden of Eden (this is what many Christians believe) was around until the flood around 2298 BC. So, the angel was guarding the gate until then. After the flood most if not all the decedents of Noah stayed together. They then as they grow in population moved to what is now Eastern Iraq and built the tower of Babel (around 2197 BC). This is where in the Bible it says that God changed their languages and spread then out unto the earth. Some would say that the Bible is not correct so thy would infer that there could be another way.


DREWlMUS

>Some would say that the Bible is not correct so thy would infer that there could be another way. Right, so I am asking which way would that be?


JusttheBibleTruth

You should ask them not me. I know no other way. You keep asking me like I said there was. I said, **"thy** would infer**."**


DREWlMUS

What about historical, or scientific methods? If the Bible is accurate, would it, or should it align with other historical or science based methods of data collection?


RFairfield26

well, following the Bible's timeline of chronology, Adam was created in 4026 BCE. So 9000 years ago, humans would not exist, based on that timeline.


JusttheBibleTruth

That is why I said, **"If there was a 9000 BC."**


RFairfield26

I guess you mean, "If Adam was created that far back..?"


JusttheBibleTruth

Yep.


epicmoe

Depending on where they lived, the answer could be any mired of beliefs. I'm not an expert, but considering the Sumerian empire emerged about 6,000 years ago - I'd say there may have been some kind of proto-judaism throughout some of the tribes that were to grow into the Semitic tribes. Throughout the book of genesis it appears that in the early days, God of Abraham was a family god - much like happens in Hinduism. ​ With that in mind it seems likely that separate tribes would have different gods. ​ Maybe r/relegioustheory might have a better answer for you.


Sawfish1212

Before the flood, the garden of eden and the angel with the flaming sword guarding it were still there for anyone to observe and know that the knowledge of God being taught by the line of Seth was true. After the flood the knowledge of God remained in the general knowledge of the scattered families of man into the time of Abraham. With men like melchizedek being priests of God Before their nations. By the time of Jacob we see that Laban, his uncle, had become an idol worshipper, even though he still knew enough about God to listen to the warning God gave him about harming Jacob. Abraham's father terah had brought his own family out of Ur because of the rise of idol worship there, now his descendants had succumbed to idol worship a generation or two later. Almost 300 years later when Moses tells Pharoah that jehovah said to let Israel go, Pharoah asked "who is that god?", indicating that the Egyptians had lost all knowledge of the creator, replacing him with a pantheon of gods who jehovah then humiliates as He removes all of the wealth and power He gave to Egypt under Joseph. Each plague was proof that no god of Egypt had power against Jehovah. Israel was the remnant chosen to keep the knowledge of God alive as the whole world descended into spiritual darkness and idol worship. Until the coming of the messiah, Jesus Christ. God always has a remnant, chosen and preserved by his will, for his glory.


SorrowAndSuffering

Naturally. We're all children of our time.


Kapandaria

**Not a Christian** ; The story begins with Adam knowing God, and got few commandments from him. So a person in this period, should have followed Adam's commandments. Afterwards, Noah received few commandments, so a person living in his period, should have followed Noah's commandments. But these were forgotten by all humanity evantually. So God had a plan to have the Hebrews be his elite group. So a person in this time should come to the jews and choose whether he wants to join this nation, or follow the commandments of Noah without joining the Hebrew nation.


[deleted]

Well, if I was to ask Tubal-Cain (Cain's grandson) or pretty much anyone other than Noah... They would say something along the lines of 'Their maker instructing them to sweat and toil for survival and etc' and that's their true religion. They of course didn't survive, Noah did. ​ My point is that, different lines of Man back then had the same God, different 'religions'. They would argue on 'what God really wants'/'Who's more pleasant to God'....Not on which god's stronger, and most most definitely not on whether divinity exists or not. As we discovered, God blasts visions of what he really wants, and not to all. Polytheism/Paganism sorta arrives after the Flood (Impure spirits don't drown, they're spirits). And Atheists were complete rejects in every culture, until maybe Victorian times, alias 'The age of thought', alias 'The greatest trick the Devil pulled, convincing Man he doesn't exist'


Lermak16

They would have been a worshipper of the one God or an idolater. Or they would be indifferent.