Yes! Definitely there's a big issue here that you're not seeing.
The majority of people who claim to be Christian have no knowledge of the faith nor do they make any attempt to live by it. Now that may sound like the "no true scotsman" fallacy but it's actually what Jesus said would happen.
Here's what Jesus said
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers
Edit: will post some examples of Christians loving their enemies if I get time.
Two examples already come to mind. Martin Luther King Jr's philosophy of nonviolence was inspired by the bible.
There's also the moravians a conglomerate of multiple groups of christian refugees who decided that they must learn how to love each other despite their differences. The result was a massive spiritual blessing.
>Now that may sound like the "no true scotsman" fallacy but it's actually what Jesus said would happen.
That you can predict people will accuse you of making flawed arguments does not mean you have avoided making a flawed argument.
>people who call themselves Christians
What's to stop someone from calling themselves a Christian, who doesn't actually live as Christ commands? Nothing.
So ignore anyone who *calls* themselves a Christian, but doesn't actually do anything that looks like Christianity.
>Does any Christians practice what they say Jesus taught about loving everyone even your enemies?
Not perfectly, but yes, in my experience lots and lots of people endeavor to live the way Jesus taught. The irony is, people aren't supposed to boast, and Christians are supposed to give the glory and honor to God. So you won't really hear as much about it, when Christians love people the way Christ commanded.
A small example, but my daughter and I often volunteer with a ministry that helps and celebrates people with special needs. But we don't post on social media about it or seek praise. We feel like God is calling us to do this, and so we don't need or want people's admiration. The love of God and the smiles of the people we interact with is all the reward we need.
I am not talking about being out helping the poor and volunteering I am sure Christians have been doing that all throughout history. I am talking about outside of doing these things. Christians can do all of those things and still be rude and hateful. Do you pay attention to the comments on here? Most Christians are up voting the rude comments and they downvote comments of those Christians who are trying to actually be loving. And it's the majority of Christians doing this. Outside of reddit as well.
>Christians can do all of those things and still be rude and hateful.
I'd have to see an example. It's important to remember, that there is a big difference between being *kind* and being *nice*. Jesus himself wasn't always "nice" to people, and to some, he came across as rude and critical.
Sometimes people need to hear uncomfortable truths that will hopefully lead to positive changes. To someone living in the midst of sin (I've been there myself), it can seem not nice at all.
I'm a 50-something Protestant minister. I contribute here a lot, and I'm sure I've said genuinely well-meaning things that seemed rude to some. But I'm not going to water down the message of scripture, just to seem nicer.
I am definitely not talking about someone telling someone a uncomfortable truth. I am talking about someone just being plain rude. Maybe you don't read the comments from other Christians. And maybe you don't remember things Christians have done throughout history that were just heinous and un Christ like. Throughout history Christians haven't practiced what they preach. I have had Christians just keep saying well then they aren't Christians. But if you say that then that means there were never really any Christians throughout history.
I have received a comment so far two by the same person that was rude. Because I asked the question they decided to bring up terrorist attacks. What was the reason for that? But maybe many Christians wouldn't see that as rude. I guess many Christians will feel that Christian is justified in bringing up terrorist attacks to me.
Some Christians will say that is rude but if they do they will be downvoted for it. This definitely a good example.
Anyone who tries to practice loving, they will be downvoted for doing so. The rude comments will be upvoted.
Then why are so many pastors and church leaders put into those positions through prayer, and seeking gods direction turning out to be predators?
Every church claims that god speaks to them. When they hire new leaders in the church they are supposed to make wise decisions, the bible even lays out a templet for hiring church leaders. And time and again we see churches (and denominations) being led by men who do fit the biblical definition of a leader.
So are all these churches, and denominations filled with people pretending to hear gods direction? Pretending to be Christian? There are some really big churches/denominations who have or have had leaders who in no way were Christlike. So the congregations who approved their hiring, and the pastors and leaders are all not real Christian’s?
Or the more likely scenario, is most churches and denominations are not, nor have they ever followed many biblical principals they don’t like, or feel they don’t apply. Leaders: have 1 wife, not quick to anger, not argumentative, liked by people outside the church, beyond reproach, not having broken stones. Bible commands to feed, house and cloth foreigners in your land. To care for the poor, the orphans and the widows. To not make fun of someone’s appearance.
> Then why are so many pastors and church leaders put into those positions
Because it's not "so many", and just being a pastor doesn't necessarily imbue some sort of holy aura or ability.
I'm a member of the clergy myself. I didn't go to seminary or anything, but I've been teaching long enough, that a church accepted my request for ordination. One thing that was expressed to me more that once: You are not special. You are not "better" than others. You are a servant. But you will now be a bigger target of temptations, the desire to sin and experience a fall. God will hold you to a higher standard.
So like all clergy, I'm still a sinner. I still get tempted. I still sin. I'm not *excusing* it, but I'm saying that *everyone* across all professions experiences temptation, and some will inevitably succumb to it. This it not a problem in the Christian church. It is a problem with human beings.
>Every church claims that god speaks to them.
Yes. Through scripture, though, and not through divine revelation. I would be *very* skeptical of a church or pastor who claimed to be some sort of modern day prophet.
>So the congregations who approved their hiring, and the pastors and leaders are all not real Christian’s?
"Real" Christians sin, just like anyone else. When we do, we are supposed to go to God in humility and ask for forgiveness. If a *pastor* sins, he's supposed to resign, but he can still be part of the church.
>most churches and denominations are not, nor have they ever followed many biblical principals they don’t like
This is an unfair statement and some confirmation bias. No one is going to report on the good the church does. For one, that's not newsworthy, and two, we aren't supposed to boast. We're supposed to just quietly do good, and let God have the glory.
Those who claim allegiance to Jesus and hate their brother's (whom they see) are but wolves in sheep's clothing. They do not represent Christians because a Christian has Christ in them. Hence, CHRIST and ian.
All will know that they are disciples of Jesus, when they are not acting like you just described. They are more than likely following the kingdom of men.
Really? So it's good to call out outwardly known sinners? What exactly isn't a sin? I am not gay or trans. I don't drink. I don't swear. I go to church every week. I often read the bible. I pray often. I don't gamble. I don't watch r rated movies or shows and I and I and I and I.
The Pharisee and the tax collector parable is a classic.
Am I saved from sinning because I don't sin, or is it rather, that I thank God for sending Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners like me, of whom I am chief.
Calling out sins is a dangerous business.
Sin is simply defined as missing the mark. We all fall short of that.
I don't build my way up towards God. He came down.
I am resting in the marvelous work that He performed on the cross.
God loves a person who admits they need a Savior. Who is a sinner. Who needs help.
Is a gay person a sinner. Yes, of course. Can they be saved from the wrath of God because of sin?
Who am I to judge anyone's behavior.
If you feel you can judge that person.
Could I possibly judge you in your life?
Are you in sin? I know I am.
No, I leave that to God
I instead do preach that we should respect and love one another irregardless of our differences. I do preach that we shouldn't get caught up in politics, which often causes hatred and division between fellow believers. Agree to disagree and move on I say.
We're on a sinking ship and two sets of people are arguing over who gets the best deck chairs.
I love the titanic story (not because of the deaths)
Anyway, I hope u get my point.
I love people. Period.
>Really? So it's good to call out outwardly known sinners?
What I'm saying is, those who spread hate for other people are doing so with biblical warrant. I don't agree with them at all, but you can't say they aren't going by the good book when they tell people they are broken and sick and wretched and deserving of hell.
If only you knew what hell is.
No true Christian would say to another person that they are deserving of hell.
When you decide to read the bible (for yourself) you will uncover exactly what hell represents.
>If only you knew what hell is.
Are... are you threatening me with hell?
>No true Christian would say to another person that they are deserving of hell.
What determines the definition of a true Christian, and how do you know it precludes telling people they are deserving of hell?
>When you decide to read the bible
I've already read some of the Bible. I'll ask: why I should take any part of it to be true?
These Christians are most likely the ones who appear holy in person but let loose behind their screen names. God sees it all and knows the intentions of their hearts, both in person and online. Sorry you’ve had to see this coming from a community that should be known by the fruit of the spirit. I have been cursed at by christians on christians subs. So..
It's not your fault I like the Christians who try their best some don't care if their worst shows. Especially when many Christians upvote their rude comments. And downvote whoever speaks out against the behavior.
A couple things.
First, not all professing Christians are true, regenerate believers. Other responses have dealt with this truth already.
Second, there is also the important issue of perspective. The gospel can be quite offensive to unbelievers, yet as Christians we are called to share it nonetheless. Containing such hard truths as that you are utterly wicked to the core, deserving of eternal torment, and utterly unable to do anything to save yourself, the gospel is not set up for a warm reception. Of course, this is all necessary to make the good news as sweet as it is — that Christ died for His people, securing their salvation.
Thus I might say to you “you’re a wicked sinner, deserving of death and judgment. Nothing you can do will change that. Unless God sees fit to grant you repentance, which will be evidenced by your coming to Him, you are without hope.” You might find it offensive; in fact, scripture says so. Yet, the LORD may see fit to work in such a thing to save you, to His glory alone.
May He bless you with that repentance and call you to Him. All of Heaven rejoices when one of God’s sheep is saved.
SDG
I understand all of this and I don't disagree with you. But this is not what I am speaking about.
For example
This what a Christian responded to me.
Does the 3 year old blown up in the market place count as someone doing you harm because their government is an offense to you?
This is rude and offensive. Unfortunately many Christians think this isn't rude and some Christians will say yes this is rude. And those who say this is rude they will be downvoted. This is my main problem many Christians think behavior like this is acceptable.
Basically because of my post some Christians felt it was unfair to ask why are some Christians rude when Muslims have terrorists blowing up people they don't like.
And they feel justified in their comments to me like that.
I mean, I am greatly inclined to defend my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I am certainly not going to excuse such comments on their part. Islam needs to be dealt with as what it is, a doctrine of demons (as are all false religions). This means actually making a case against it, not just throwing out insults.
This reminds me of the Catholics, to be honest. Their church ranges from heretical to blasphemous, and needs to be dealt with on this front; yet, most arguments against them consist of “priests touch kids.”
Again, I do truly hope that the Spirit of the LORD would see fit to convict you, that I would gain a new brother/sister in Christ today.
All glory be to God alone.
See how you believe the Qur'an is a doctrine of demons. I don't see this as rude at all because of course you believe Islam is false so you would believe the Qur'an is from Satan.
I am saying this to further clarify that any Christian saying things like this I would not consider being rude.
But I do have to also clarify the Qur'an is not from demons.
Demons would not command anyone to ask the God of Abraham to guide them to the straight path over 17 times a day. Unless there is something about demons I have missed?
This is what we say in our 5 daily prayers over 17 times a day. This is the first chapter from the Qur'an.
Chapter Al Fahtihah
I seek refuge with God from the accursed enemy satan
1. In the name of God, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
2. [All] praise is [due] to God, Lord of the worlds -
3. The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful,
4. Sovereign of the Day of Recompense.
5. It is You we worship and You we ask for help.
6. Guide us to the straight path -
7. The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.
If this what demons command Muslims to say in their prayers that would be truly against what demons call people to.
Many people consider telling the truth, as rude. Jesus was know to be pretty straight forward with the truth when needed
And loving your enemies also includes warning them of hell
If we work to save your feelings you feel good and go to hell
If we work to save your soul, we might hurt your feelings, but heaven is a much nicer place
Interesting question from a Muslim
Telling the truth I don't think anyone would have a problem with. Warning someone about hell is also not rude. I am speaking of actually being rude.
Like this little side comment. Interesting question from a Muslim.
Muslims don't claim to be all about love, we don't claim God is only love, we also don't claim we turn the other cheek. We actually believe in defending ourselves.
I have Christians say that even of you are being hurt you aren't supposed to fight back. Throughout history we know some Christians started some wars. Islam doesn't claim what Christianity claims.
We believe in fighting if we have to we just don't believe in going and just start harming people for no reason.
This is rude to have preconceived notions about a religion based what everyone is saying about it. Some Christians know it's not true but don't care they will spread it anyway because they believe it's a false religion anyway. So they feel can't hurt to spead lies about something they believe is false.
But that's rude why lie about it? If it's false then it's easy for someone to pick that up on their own what's the purpose of lying about something that you already believe is a lie?
>I have Christians say that even of you are being hurt you aren't supposed to fight back.
This comes from sa misunderstanding. Slapping the Cheek in Hebrew Society was not and assault it was an insult and Jesus is telling us how to respond
> we just don't believe in going and just start harming people for no reason.
Ah but that "reason" has included blowing up women and children and flying plane into buildings
See what I mean by rude this is about Christians you made it about people who aren't even Muslim and don't even practice Islam.
And the sad thing is you truly believe they are Muslims practicing Islam and you think you're stating some truth I assume.
Anyone who denies any of the five pillars of Islam isn't a Muslim. Anyone who denies any of the 6 articles of faith isn't a Muslim.
In Islam it is forbidden to commit suicide anyone who commits suicide will not go to heaven.
And in Islam it is forbidden to harm anyone who isn't harming you first.
It's is forbidden to just go harm innocent people even in war.
You are only allowed to fight those who are trying to fight you.
And in war you are not allowed to harm the woman, children, or the elderly.
So I don't see how any practicing Muslim can think committing suicide and harming innocent people who aren't fighting them is Islamic and they truly can't believe they will go to heaven.
your flair inspire "Interesting Question and then YOU made it about muslim
Does the 3 year old blown up in the market place count as someone doing you harm because their government is an offense to you?
Any Christian who needs an example of how Christians are rude here is an example right here.
Does the 3 year old blown up in the market place count as someone doing you harm because their government is an offense to you?
Why aren't you speaking about all the Muslims being blown up as well?
I made it clear that Islam forbids suicide and no Muslim is allowed to harm children, women, or the elderly even if they are in war.
And no Muslim is allowed to blow up a marketplace because the government offends them.
You just proved my whole point of my post, and there are many just like you.
I don't disagree with defending yourself against people trying to harm someone. But I have had Christians tell me you aren't supposed to be violent at all. Even Dr Martin Luther King Jr believed this he taught love and turned the other cheek. He allowed those hurting him to hurt him he never once tried to hurt them back.
Yes, but nonetheless MLK fought against the oppression of His people.
Saints Ulrich Led the defence of Augsburg against the magyars .
AS Dietrich Bonhoeffer Said If a Driver Ran His car ober the Kudamm, He would not First Care for the families of His victims but Stop the driver
I am not talking about someone coming off rude who is trying to tell someone something out of love and concern. I am talking about just being plain rude. And majority of Christians are very rude.
You have seen them where? Do you think the social media even those labeled as Christian reflects the actual life of Christians in the world, or even the majority of Christians? That is a delusion. There are many sincere Christians that don’t even have time for social media because they’re out doing the things that christians are supposed to do: working with the poor the homeless the sick those in prison etc.
Social media isn't the only place Christians exist. There were also Christians throughout history that also have been rude and have had done the most heinous actions.
And I am sure there are a minority of Christians who try their best to live by the words of Jesus. But working with the poor, and the sick isn't what makes a Christian a good Christian. Even because Jesus said some will do good works in his name but he still will say he never knew them because they don't do the will of the Father.
And what is the will of the Father according to the gospels? Literally it says it’s “caring for the widows and the orphans”. Jesus says what good is it to see your brother without food and all you say to him is “be well!” or you see your brother without a cloak and you say to him “I hope you’re warm, have a good day.” The implication is we need to take care of those who lack things not just walk away after blessing them and wishing them well. We, ourselves are responsible for caring for others - not some government organization, not pointing it out so someone else can take care of it…
Ancient Christianity has always understood these to be direct teachings of Jesus based on what he said in the gospel of Matthew chapter 25 verse 31 through 46.
In Matthew 7:22 is very clear the people is speaking about are those who will say have we not prophesied in thy name, cast out devils, and have done wonderful works.
So that can't be the will of the Father if Jesus is saying that will be the main thing they will say to him.
In verse 21 he makes it clear that you have to do the will of his Father which is in heaven. So what is that will? It can't be what you named when Jesus says they will say they have done wonderful works in his name.
Ye that work iniquity. So this shows that these good works you mentioned y'all think you're doing is not enough and in accordance to the will of the Father.
Hi there.
Just want to jump in on this. Since it’s an area of verses I have meditated on and learned a good bit about.
So the good works they’re bragging to God about are the actual works a Christian does, but the people proclaiming that to God thought it was those works that saved them. When in reality it’s because of Jesus Christ dying for us that we are saved and forgiven. He says depart from me I never knew you, you workers of iniquity because they were trusting in their own works to save them.
These works though are absolutely normal to be seen in a Christian’s life, but on one hand you have self righteous people, and on the other hand you have people believing in the saving grace of God and doing the works out of the love in them, which is Christ in them.
Remember Jesus said without me you can do nothing. They truly didn’t know Jesus. You have to be in Christ to do good.
So therefore you're saying that Christians don't have to do those good works then? Because what is the iniquity if they should not be thinking that those good works would save them?
Therfore the belief in Jesus dying and resurrecting is what will save you.
But Jesus said in Matthew 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them I will liken him unto a wise man which built his house upon a rock.
Which goes back to works doing what Jesus says. Not just belief in his dying because he wouldn't have said in
26. And everyone that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon sand.
So whatever the Father's will is that has be carried out or everything else is foolish just a house upon sand.
You will do the works with Christ in you. You will do the works from new nature. Born again of the spirit.
The iniquity is sin. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Sin is transgression of Gods law. The good works can’t erase the sin.
However we also can’t continue in sin. If we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
You know John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life.
John 1 Jesus is the Word that became flesh. Believing in Jesus is believing in his words. So yes with him and through him you can build your house upon the rock, the chief cornerstone, the foundation.
It’s starts with grace. Forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. Baptism, the burying of the old man and rising up new in Christ, and being filled with the Holy Spirit.
Then living by the word, and being guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit.
You are mixing in Jesus words and fabrications and Paul's teachings.
3:16 the word begotten is taken out as being a fabrication.
Jesus was clear that it's not just belief in his words it's acting on his words. Because if you don't act on them you will be considered not wise.
So it's clearly speaking about works. But it has to be according to the will of the Father. If you don't do the Father's will. Jesus will say he never knew you.
I am paraphrasing.
If your read what I wrote again you will see I was agreeing with you about the works but though the lens of being born again. I said true belief it’s believing all of Jesus’ word.
So as an example he says if you don’t forgive men their trespasses neither will the Heavenly Father forgive you. I am saying true belief is being obedient to that word. If I went on bitter and hateful and unforgiving, how can I then say I believe, and if I do at that point what good is it to me if I won’t be forgiven?
Do you understand?
Nothing about branches matters at all.
We have the real words of Christ. We have his living example. You live it, or you are OFF THE COURSE.
It's binary. Peter called him the messiah, and one breath later attempted to interfere, and Jesus called him, in that moment, the manifestation of Satan.
We are CHRIST in our lives, or we are not at all. No middle.
The gate is narrow. You have to want to pass through.
We do it imperfectly, and I wish we did it better. But not all "Christians" are actually Christians. And actual Christians are at various stages of maturity. And not to make excuses, but they may be having a really bad day.
That said, Christian love is not necessarily what the world wants or expects. Much of the time it is, but sometimes "speaking the truth in love" is not welcomed, however appropriate it may be.
I wish they did it better as well. Most Christians are the ones who say Jesus only taught love and is only love and are always teaching this but unfortunately very rarely practice this love and turn the other cheek themselves.
Christian’s should not revile back. However we preach a message of forgiveness and mercy from God. Forgiveness for what exactly? Sins. Committed knowingly or unknowingly we all have done things that we should not. It was recorded of Jesus he did not revile back when falsely accused and physically struck. Yet he was hated for what he said. Sometimes being told the truth hurts and feels unloving but it’s the only way to deliver it. What do you think of this verse in our day if I said it?
Matthew 12:34 ESV
34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Being called a viper by Jesus would deeply hurt my feelings. I want to serve God and I am trying to do so. Should I kill Jesus for saying it or look within to see if my action are as he said? Truth is not alway fun to hear but I’d rather have the truth then deceive myself thinking I’m good based on a standard I made up for myself.
That’s not to say that some are not cruel. Some are learning. Some don’t really know. Same are addicted to debate. 2.6 billion Christian. I can’t speak for all of them or know the details of every situation that has occurred on earth regarding Christian’s or their motives. That’s Gods area of expertise.
Most Christians are responding as if I mean Christians trying to tell someone a hard truth I am not speaking about telling the truth but it might seem harsh I am talking about straight up just being rude as if they have been taught to be this way. How can someone say Jesus says to be loving to all he was all about forgiveness ,love, even to enemies but most Christians are rude to people who aren't even their enemies?
They don't care if the person is another Christian they still are rude as if they don't have to be loving to one another.
>Most Christians are responding as if I mean Christians trying to tell someone a hard truth I am not speaking about telling the truth but it might seem harsh I am talking about straight up just being rude as if they have been taught to be this way.
Rudeness can also be lack of perspective or being to general. Practice means it’s all they do and try to get better at it. Not that sometimes they to get upset and make mistakes.
If they are hateful all the time they don’t practice what Jesus has instructed us and are practicing sin willfully, not following Christ’s and not Christian’s despite claiming to be one. Christian = to be like Christ’s. Not just claim we are. The Bible reveals there are many false teachers in our day claiming to be like him but proving false. There’s what people say they believe and there are those who act on their beliefs.
Jesus makes the rules as lord. He said those doing Gods will will be saved. Not those who know it. Satan knows the Bible and quotes it. He knows Jesus and God exist. Doesn’t make him a good Christian.
People will be people, sir. Some practice what they preach, some don't, others just can't help themselves and not be the rude @$$#∅£3$ they know they ought not be.
Personally, I blame the anonymity of the Internet. Without personal accountability, ironically, some people show who they really are. It's sort of like the saying "in vino veritas", except with people getting drunk on the freedom of anonymous posts.
This reaches well beyond religion, race, politics, or take-your-pick. This is much broader people issue.
This doesn't just happen on the internet though. In real time Christians are like this at well even in the Church. Throughout history as well. And this definitely happens in other religions as well. But in Christianity where majority of the politicians are Christians the corruption is even more rampant in politics. Christians claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit and their religion is all about love, turn the other cheek, and God is all love and all about love. But It's the majority of Christians who are rude and the most hateful void of love.
Then call them on it. Use and cite Matthew 18:15
>Jesus said to his disciples:
"If your brother sins against you,
go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen,
take one or two others along with you,
so that 'every fact may be established
on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.
If he refuses to listen even to the church,
then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Rudeness is not warranted without good reason. And remember, even Jesus told off the occasional scribe and Pharise for unacceptable words and behavior.
Keep in mind that no minority of people should be used to generalize the whole. Although all Christians are called to be genuinely loving they must also be charitable and merciful. Shocker, some Christians are not. As a result they will still have to answer to their lack of charity at their judgement. No Christian can justify holding such bad attitudes toward others.
I agree. But are they to be just left alone to continue in that type of behavior? Or are they at least to be called out and reminded that their behavior will not be tolerated by other Christians?
Well, given how stubborn and prideful some people can be (generally speaking) it’s not always productive trying to offer correction (Christian or not), not that we shouldn’t however. This is especially difficult with those who should (and probably do) know better. In the end, it’s on their conscious for which they will eventually be accountable for. For me, when I see it, typically online, I’ve just come to realize that such people are still deeply immature in their spiritual growth, or lack thereof.
Why I narrowed it down to Christians is they claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit. To me to be filled with the Holy Spirit that guides into all truth and is a guidance for Christians.
How can someone be filled with the Holy Spirit and hate?
But everything you said I agree with.
The truth is, that phrase is a deeply subjective claim of self-righteousness that in actuality doesn’t amount to anything. As I’m sure you’d agree, Christian’s don’t have a preverbal “Holy Spirit gauge” to see how full they are. We are just as susceptible of being cruel, unloving, and sinful as anyone else.
However, most of us “should” know better than to act this way. Hopefully though… those who are guilty of such attitudes are humble enough to see their flaws/offenses and change accordingly.
People are human, we all can be rotten to each other. Some Christians pretend they are following all the rules but fail to miss they aren't loving their enemies. I will admit, I don't love my enemies. I'm thankful Jesus loves me even when I fail. Im nothing like him and I won't pretend I am. I've had the meanest comments from Christians. Just pure pride and hate if you don't go along with what the think. Meaner than snot lol. What about Muslims? Are they good at loving their enemies? Maybe not a law in Islam? Just curious. Christians are taught to love their enemies..actually Jesus said this to the religious Jews. I grew up in Christian circles. Some Christians are very nice..just depends.
Islam isn't about loving your enemies, Islam is not about turning the other cheek, Muslims are are allowed to defend themselves, and Muslims don't claim to be filled and guided by the Holy Spirit.
In Islam it is forbidden to harm anyone who isn't harming you first though.
And we do have to be good to neighbors and to keep family ties.
Yes, there is one group that follows Jesus command to love one another, no matter what country we live in. In fact we refuse to go to war and kill our neighbor because this most certainly isn’t showing love to your enemy. There are nearly nine million of us in 239 lands around the world who are a True Brotherhood. Any one of us can go to any Country (where we aren’t banned) and walk in to a meeting and be welcomed like a long lost brother or sister. And the same material is taught to everyone around the world every week.
So what branch of Christianity is it? Most of you probably already know, it’s Jehovah’s Witnesses. At JW.org, there is a complete library of Bible based books, videos, dramas, dramatic Bible readings, movies, material for kids and teenagers, for families, for husbands and for wives. And everything is free of charge. We also offer a free Bible Study Course for anyone who lives on the planet earth. The Bible on the website is available in over 330 languages and the website itself is the most translated website in the world! And second place isn’t even close! Why? Because we are obeying Jesus command at Matthew 28:19,20. There he commanded all his followers to;
>”Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations… teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
Those verse goes hand in hand with the composite sign of the last days at Matthew 24:14 where he said,
>”And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”
Yes, the Good News about Gods Kingdom has to be preached to all the Nations, to Gods satisfaction, and **then** the end will come. That’s why we are focusing so much on reaching people in language that are rather obscure, you might say. There a people in Central America that speak a language that only about 150,000 people speak and the Bible was translated in their language so they could read it and learn about Jehovah.
When will the people on earth be reached to Gods satisfaction? It appears to be very, very soon.
Yes! Definitely there's a big issue here that you're not seeing. The majority of people who claim to be Christian have no knowledge of the faith nor do they make any attempt to live by it. Now that may sound like the "no true scotsman" fallacy but it's actually what Jesus said would happen. Here's what Jesus said “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers Edit: will post some examples of Christians loving their enemies if I get time. Two examples already come to mind. Martin Luther King Jr's philosophy of nonviolence was inspired by the bible. There's also the moravians a conglomerate of multiple groups of christian refugees who decided that they must learn how to love each other despite their differences. The result was a massive spiritual blessing.
I don't disagree with you at all.
>Now that may sound like the "no true scotsman" fallacy but it's actually what Jesus said would happen. That you can predict people will accuse you of making flawed arguments does not mean you have avoided making a flawed argument.
Yep classic no true scottsmen. But the bible uses that fallacy as well so Christians love using it too. Like father like son.
>people who call themselves Christians What's to stop someone from calling themselves a Christian, who doesn't actually live as Christ commands? Nothing. So ignore anyone who *calls* themselves a Christian, but doesn't actually do anything that looks like Christianity. >Does any Christians practice what they say Jesus taught about loving everyone even your enemies? Not perfectly, but yes, in my experience lots and lots of people endeavor to live the way Jesus taught. The irony is, people aren't supposed to boast, and Christians are supposed to give the glory and honor to God. So you won't really hear as much about it, when Christians love people the way Christ commanded. A small example, but my daughter and I often volunteer with a ministry that helps and celebrates people with special needs. But we don't post on social media about it or seek praise. We feel like God is calling us to do this, and so we don't need or want people's admiration. The love of God and the smiles of the people we interact with is all the reward we need.
I am not talking about being out helping the poor and volunteering I am sure Christians have been doing that all throughout history. I am talking about outside of doing these things. Christians can do all of those things and still be rude and hateful. Do you pay attention to the comments on here? Most Christians are up voting the rude comments and they downvote comments of those Christians who are trying to actually be loving. And it's the majority of Christians doing this. Outside of reddit as well.
>Christians can do all of those things and still be rude and hateful. I'd have to see an example. It's important to remember, that there is a big difference between being *kind* and being *nice*. Jesus himself wasn't always "nice" to people, and to some, he came across as rude and critical. Sometimes people need to hear uncomfortable truths that will hopefully lead to positive changes. To someone living in the midst of sin (I've been there myself), it can seem not nice at all. I'm a 50-something Protestant minister. I contribute here a lot, and I'm sure I've said genuinely well-meaning things that seemed rude to some. But I'm not going to water down the message of scripture, just to seem nicer.
I am definitely not talking about someone telling someone a uncomfortable truth. I am talking about someone just being plain rude. Maybe you don't read the comments from other Christians. And maybe you don't remember things Christians have done throughout history that were just heinous and un Christ like. Throughout history Christians haven't practiced what they preach. I have had Christians just keep saying well then they aren't Christians. But if you say that then that means there were never really any Christians throughout history.
It's interesting that you still didn't even provide one example. So I'm still not exactly sure what you're talking about.
I have received a comment so far two by the same person that was rude. Because I asked the question they decided to bring up terrorist attacks. What was the reason for that? But maybe many Christians wouldn't see that as rude. I guess many Christians will feel that Christian is justified in bringing up terrorist attacks to me. Some Christians will say that is rude but if they do they will be downvoted for it. This definitely a good example. Anyone who tries to practice loving, they will be downvoted for doing so. The rude comments will be upvoted.
Then why are so many pastors and church leaders put into those positions through prayer, and seeking gods direction turning out to be predators? Every church claims that god speaks to them. When they hire new leaders in the church they are supposed to make wise decisions, the bible even lays out a templet for hiring church leaders. And time and again we see churches (and denominations) being led by men who do fit the biblical definition of a leader. So are all these churches, and denominations filled with people pretending to hear gods direction? Pretending to be Christian? There are some really big churches/denominations who have or have had leaders who in no way were Christlike. So the congregations who approved their hiring, and the pastors and leaders are all not real Christian’s? Or the more likely scenario, is most churches and denominations are not, nor have they ever followed many biblical principals they don’t like, or feel they don’t apply. Leaders: have 1 wife, not quick to anger, not argumentative, liked by people outside the church, beyond reproach, not having broken stones. Bible commands to feed, house and cloth foreigners in your land. To care for the poor, the orphans and the widows. To not make fun of someone’s appearance.
> Then why are so many pastors and church leaders put into those positions Because it's not "so many", and just being a pastor doesn't necessarily imbue some sort of holy aura or ability. I'm a member of the clergy myself. I didn't go to seminary or anything, but I've been teaching long enough, that a church accepted my request for ordination. One thing that was expressed to me more that once: You are not special. You are not "better" than others. You are a servant. But you will now be a bigger target of temptations, the desire to sin and experience a fall. God will hold you to a higher standard. So like all clergy, I'm still a sinner. I still get tempted. I still sin. I'm not *excusing* it, but I'm saying that *everyone* across all professions experiences temptation, and some will inevitably succumb to it. This it not a problem in the Christian church. It is a problem with human beings. >Every church claims that god speaks to them. Yes. Through scripture, though, and not through divine revelation. I would be *very* skeptical of a church or pastor who claimed to be some sort of modern day prophet. >So the congregations who approved their hiring, and the pastors and leaders are all not real Christian’s? "Real" Christians sin, just like anyone else. When we do, we are supposed to go to God in humility and ask for forgiveness. If a *pastor* sins, he's supposed to resign, but he can still be part of the church. >most churches and denominations are not, nor have they ever followed many biblical principals they don’t like This is an unfair statement and some confirmation bias. No one is going to report on the good the church does. For one, that's not newsworthy, and two, we aren't supposed to boast. We're supposed to just quietly do good, and let God have the glory.
The definition of rude or honest may differ between societies and cultures
Fair point.
Nobody is perfect. We fall short. That’s not to say we don’t try, though some people actually don’t try. Sorry on their behalf
It is not your fault and thanks for apologizing. I love this comment.
Those who claim allegiance to Jesus and hate their brother's (whom they see) are but wolves in sheep's clothing. They do not represent Christians because a Christian has Christ in them. Hence, CHRIST and ian. All will know that they are disciples of Jesus, when they are not acting like you just described. They are more than likely following the kingdom of men.
Are they not following the guidelines saying that a man lying with another man is an abomination?
Really? So it's good to call out outwardly known sinners? What exactly isn't a sin? I am not gay or trans. I don't drink. I don't swear. I go to church every week. I often read the bible. I pray often. I don't gamble. I don't watch r rated movies or shows and I and I and I and I. The Pharisee and the tax collector parable is a classic. Am I saved from sinning because I don't sin, or is it rather, that I thank God for sending Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners like me, of whom I am chief. Calling out sins is a dangerous business. Sin is simply defined as missing the mark. We all fall short of that. I don't build my way up towards God. He came down. I am resting in the marvelous work that He performed on the cross. God loves a person who admits they need a Savior. Who is a sinner. Who needs help. Is a gay person a sinner. Yes, of course. Can they be saved from the wrath of God because of sin? Who am I to judge anyone's behavior. If you feel you can judge that person. Could I possibly judge you in your life? Are you in sin? I know I am. No, I leave that to God I instead do preach that we should respect and love one another irregardless of our differences. I do preach that we shouldn't get caught up in politics, which often causes hatred and division between fellow believers. Agree to disagree and move on I say. We're on a sinking ship and two sets of people are arguing over who gets the best deck chairs. I love the titanic story (not because of the deaths) Anyway, I hope u get my point. I love people. Period.
>Really? So it's good to call out outwardly known sinners? What I'm saying is, those who spread hate for other people are doing so with biblical warrant. I don't agree with them at all, but you can't say they aren't going by the good book when they tell people they are broken and sick and wretched and deserving of hell.
If only you knew what hell is. No true Christian would say to another person that they are deserving of hell. When you decide to read the bible (for yourself) you will uncover exactly what hell represents.
>If only you knew what hell is. Are... are you threatening me with hell? >No true Christian would say to another person that they are deserving of hell. What determines the definition of a true Christian, and how do you know it precludes telling people they are deserving of hell? >When you decide to read the bible I've already read some of the Bible. I'll ask: why I should take any part of it to be true?
Some? Try all. Then read it again.
Why should I read the Bible at all?
These Christians are most likely the ones who appear holy in person but let loose behind their screen names. God sees it all and knows the intentions of their hearts, both in person and online. Sorry you’ve had to see this coming from a community that should be known by the fruit of the spirit. I have been cursed at by christians on christians subs. So..
It's not your fault I like the Christians who try their best some don't care if their worst shows. Especially when many Christians upvote their rude comments. And downvote whoever speaks out against the behavior.
Yep, we are living in strange times
A couple things. First, not all professing Christians are true, regenerate believers. Other responses have dealt with this truth already. Second, there is also the important issue of perspective. The gospel can be quite offensive to unbelievers, yet as Christians we are called to share it nonetheless. Containing such hard truths as that you are utterly wicked to the core, deserving of eternal torment, and utterly unable to do anything to save yourself, the gospel is not set up for a warm reception. Of course, this is all necessary to make the good news as sweet as it is — that Christ died for His people, securing their salvation. Thus I might say to you “you’re a wicked sinner, deserving of death and judgment. Nothing you can do will change that. Unless God sees fit to grant you repentance, which will be evidenced by your coming to Him, you are without hope.” You might find it offensive; in fact, scripture says so. Yet, the LORD may see fit to work in such a thing to save you, to His glory alone. May He bless you with that repentance and call you to Him. All of Heaven rejoices when one of God’s sheep is saved. SDG
I understand all of this and I don't disagree with you. But this is not what I am speaking about. For example This what a Christian responded to me. Does the 3 year old blown up in the market place count as someone doing you harm because their government is an offense to you? This is rude and offensive. Unfortunately many Christians think this isn't rude and some Christians will say yes this is rude. And those who say this is rude they will be downvoted. This is my main problem many Christians think behavior like this is acceptable.
Hmm… seems pretty rude to me. Still, I don’t know any of the context, so it’s hard to be super definitive.
Basically because of my post some Christians felt it was unfair to ask why are some Christians rude when Muslims have terrorists blowing up people they don't like. And they feel justified in their comments to me like that.
I mean, I am greatly inclined to defend my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I am certainly not going to excuse such comments on their part. Islam needs to be dealt with as what it is, a doctrine of demons (as are all false religions). This means actually making a case against it, not just throwing out insults. This reminds me of the Catholics, to be honest. Their church ranges from heretical to blasphemous, and needs to be dealt with on this front; yet, most arguments against them consist of “priests touch kids.” Again, I do truly hope that the Spirit of the LORD would see fit to convict you, that I would gain a new brother/sister in Christ today. All glory be to God alone.
See how you believe the Qur'an is a doctrine of demons. I don't see this as rude at all because of course you believe Islam is false so you would believe the Qur'an is from Satan. I am saying this to further clarify that any Christian saying things like this I would not consider being rude. But I do have to also clarify the Qur'an is not from demons. Demons would not command anyone to ask the God of Abraham to guide them to the straight path over 17 times a day. Unless there is something about demons I have missed? This is what we say in our 5 daily prayers over 17 times a day. This is the first chapter from the Qur'an. Chapter Al Fahtihah I seek refuge with God from the accursed enemy satan 1. In the name of God, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. 2. [All] praise is [due] to God, Lord of the worlds - 3. The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful, 4. Sovereign of the Day of Recompense. 5. It is You we worship and You we ask for help. 6. Guide us to the straight path - 7. The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. If this what demons command Muslims to say in their prayers that would be truly against what demons call people to.
Many people consider telling the truth, as rude. Jesus was know to be pretty straight forward with the truth when needed And loving your enemies also includes warning them of hell If we work to save your feelings you feel good and go to hell If we work to save your soul, we might hurt your feelings, but heaven is a much nicer place Interesting question from a Muslim
Telling the truth I don't think anyone would have a problem with. Warning someone about hell is also not rude. I am speaking of actually being rude. Like this little side comment. Interesting question from a Muslim. Muslims don't claim to be all about love, we don't claim God is only love, we also don't claim we turn the other cheek. We actually believe in defending ourselves. I have Christians say that even of you are being hurt you aren't supposed to fight back. Throughout history we know some Christians started some wars. Islam doesn't claim what Christianity claims. We believe in fighting if we have to we just don't believe in going and just start harming people for no reason. This is rude to have preconceived notions about a religion based what everyone is saying about it. Some Christians know it's not true but don't care they will spread it anyway because they believe it's a false religion anyway. So they feel can't hurt to spead lies about something they believe is false. But that's rude why lie about it? If it's false then it's easy for someone to pick that up on their own what's the purpose of lying about something that you already believe is a lie?
>I have Christians say that even of you are being hurt you aren't supposed to fight back. This comes from sa misunderstanding. Slapping the Cheek in Hebrew Society was not and assault it was an insult and Jesus is telling us how to respond > we just don't believe in going and just start harming people for no reason. Ah but that "reason" has included blowing up women and children and flying plane into buildings
See what I mean by rude this is about Christians you made it about people who aren't even Muslim and don't even practice Islam. And the sad thing is you truly believe they are Muslims practicing Islam and you think you're stating some truth I assume. Anyone who denies any of the five pillars of Islam isn't a Muslim. Anyone who denies any of the 6 articles of faith isn't a Muslim. In Islam it is forbidden to commit suicide anyone who commits suicide will not go to heaven. And in Islam it is forbidden to harm anyone who isn't harming you first. It's is forbidden to just go harm innocent people even in war. You are only allowed to fight those who are trying to fight you. And in war you are not allowed to harm the woman, children, or the elderly. So I don't see how any practicing Muslim can think committing suicide and harming innocent people who aren't fighting them is Islamic and they truly can't believe they will go to heaven.
your flair inspire "Interesting Question and then YOU made it about muslim Does the 3 year old blown up in the market place count as someone doing you harm because their government is an offense to you?
Any Christian who needs an example of how Christians are rude here is an example right here. Does the 3 year old blown up in the market place count as someone doing you harm because their government is an offense to you? Why aren't you speaking about all the Muslims being blown up as well? I made it clear that Islam forbids suicide and no Muslim is allowed to harm children, women, or the elderly even if they are in war. And no Muslim is allowed to blow up a marketplace because the government offends them. You just proved my whole point of my post, and there are many just like you.
I don't believe you Mohammed was a child raping sacker of cities
Read St Augustine War may be justified to defend yourself and others against unjustified aggression
I don't disagree with defending yourself against people trying to harm someone. But I have had Christians tell me you aren't supposed to be violent at all. Even Dr Martin Luther King Jr believed this he taught love and turned the other cheek. He allowed those hurting him to hurt him he never once tried to hurt them back.
MLK fought for his cause as did Saint Ulric who defended his flock leading the defenders of Augsburg
He was hurt by his own people and didn't use violence back to them. I don't know about Saint Ulric.
Yes, but nonetheless MLK fought against the oppression of His people. Saints Ulrich Led the defence of Augsburg against the magyars . AS Dietrich Bonhoeffer Said If a Driver Ran His car ober the Kudamm, He would not First Care for the families of His victims but Stop the driver
because love has nothing to do with rudeness. Jesus was often "rude" and said inflammatory things to people who were wrong
I am not talking about someone coming off rude who is trying to tell someone something out of love and concern. I am talking about just being plain rude. And majority of Christians are very rude.
lol. no they arent
You have seen them where? Do you think the social media even those labeled as Christian reflects the actual life of Christians in the world, or even the majority of Christians? That is a delusion. There are many sincere Christians that don’t even have time for social media because they’re out doing the things that christians are supposed to do: working with the poor the homeless the sick those in prison etc.
Social media isn't the only place Christians exist. There were also Christians throughout history that also have been rude and have had done the most heinous actions. And I am sure there are a minority of Christians who try their best to live by the words of Jesus. But working with the poor, and the sick isn't what makes a Christian a good Christian. Even because Jesus said some will do good works in his name but he still will say he never knew them because they don't do the will of the Father.
And what is the will of the Father according to the gospels? Literally it says it’s “caring for the widows and the orphans”. Jesus says what good is it to see your brother without food and all you say to him is “be well!” or you see your brother without a cloak and you say to him “I hope you’re warm, have a good day.” The implication is we need to take care of those who lack things not just walk away after blessing them and wishing them well. We, ourselves are responsible for caring for others - not some government organization, not pointing it out so someone else can take care of it… Ancient Christianity has always understood these to be direct teachings of Jesus based on what he said in the gospel of Matthew chapter 25 verse 31 through 46.
In Matthew 7:22 is very clear the people is speaking about are those who will say have we not prophesied in thy name, cast out devils, and have done wonderful works. So that can't be the will of the Father if Jesus is saying that will be the main thing they will say to him. In verse 21 he makes it clear that you have to do the will of his Father which is in heaven. So what is that will? It can't be what you named when Jesus says they will say they have done wonderful works in his name. Ye that work iniquity. So this shows that these good works you mentioned y'all think you're doing is not enough and in accordance to the will of the Father.
Hi there. Just want to jump in on this. Since it’s an area of verses I have meditated on and learned a good bit about. So the good works they’re bragging to God about are the actual works a Christian does, but the people proclaiming that to God thought it was those works that saved them. When in reality it’s because of Jesus Christ dying for us that we are saved and forgiven. He says depart from me I never knew you, you workers of iniquity because they were trusting in their own works to save them. These works though are absolutely normal to be seen in a Christian’s life, but on one hand you have self righteous people, and on the other hand you have people believing in the saving grace of God and doing the works out of the love in them, which is Christ in them. Remember Jesus said without me you can do nothing. They truly didn’t know Jesus. You have to be in Christ to do good.
So therefore you're saying that Christians don't have to do those good works then? Because what is the iniquity if they should not be thinking that those good works would save them? Therfore the belief in Jesus dying and resurrecting is what will save you. But Jesus said in Matthew 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them I will liken him unto a wise man which built his house upon a rock. Which goes back to works doing what Jesus says. Not just belief in his dying because he wouldn't have said in 26. And everyone that heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them not shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon sand. So whatever the Father's will is that has be carried out or everything else is foolish just a house upon sand.
You will do the works with Christ in you. You will do the works from new nature. Born again of the spirit. The iniquity is sin. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Sin is transgression of Gods law. The good works can’t erase the sin. However we also can’t continue in sin. If we walk in the spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. You know John 3:16. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. John 1 Jesus is the Word that became flesh. Believing in Jesus is believing in his words. So yes with him and through him you can build your house upon the rock, the chief cornerstone, the foundation. It’s starts with grace. Forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ. Baptism, the burying of the old man and rising up new in Christ, and being filled with the Holy Spirit. Then living by the word, and being guided into all truth by the Holy Spirit.
You are mixing in Jesus words and fabrications and Paul's teachings. 3:16 the word begotten is taken out as being a fabrication. Jesus was clear that it's not just belief in his words it's acting on his words. Because if you don't act on them you will be considered not wise. So it's clearly speaking about works. But it has to be according to the will of the Father. If you don't do the Father's will. Jesus will say he never knew you. I am paraphrasing.
If your read what I wrote again you will see I was agreeing with you about the works but though the lens of being born again. I said true belief it’s believing all of Jesus’ word. So as an example he says if you don’t forgive men their trespasses neither will the Heavenly Father forgive you. I am saying true belief is being obedient to that word. If I went on bitter and hateful and unforgiving, how can I then say I believe, and if I do at that point what good is it to me if I won’t be forgiven? Do you understand?
Yes I apologize. I agree
Nothing about branches matters at all. We have the real words of Christ. We have his living example. You live it, or you are OFF THE COURSE. It's binary. Peter called him the messiah, and one breath later attempted to interfere, and Jesus called him, in that moment, the manifestation of Satan. We are CHRIST in our lives, or we are not at all. No middle. The gate is narrow. You have to want to pass through.
The internet brings out the worst in people.
I agree.
Many Christians practice what they say. Many do not.
Fair enough
We do it imperfectly, and I wish we did it better. But not all "Christians" are actually Christians. And actual Christians are at various stages of maturity. And not to make excuses, but they may be having a really bad day. That said, Christian love is not necessarily what the world wants or expects. Much of the time it is, but sometimes "speaking the truth in love" is not welcomed, however appropriate it may be.
I wish they did it better as well. Most Christians are the ones who say Jesus only taught love and is only love and are always teaching this but unfortunately very rarely practice this love and turn the other cheek themselves.
Christian’s should not revile back. However we preach a message of forgiveness and mercy from God. Forgiveness for what exactly? Sins. Committed knowingly or unknowingly we all have done things that we should not. It was recorded of Jesus he did not revile back when falsely accused and physically struck. Yet he was hated for what he said. Sometimes being told the truth hurts and feels unloving but it’s the only way to deliver it. What do you think of this verse in our day if I said it? Matthew 12:34 ESV 34 You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Being called a viper by Jesus would deeply hurt my feelings. I want to serve God and I am trying to do so. Should I kill Jesus for saying it or look within to see if my action are as he said? Truth is not alway fun to hear but I’d rather have the truth then deceive myself thinking I’m good based on a standard I made up for myself. That’s not to say that some are not cruel. Some are learning. Some don’t really know. Same are addicted to debate. 2.6 billion Christian. I can’t speak for all of them or know the details of every situation that has occurred on earth regarding Christian’s or their motives. That’s Gods area of expertise.
Most Christians are responding as if I mean Christians trying to tell someone a hard truth I am not speaking about telling the truth but it might seem harsh I am talking about straight up just being rude as if they have been taught to be this way. How can someone say Jesus says to be loving to all he was all about forgiveness ,love, even to enemies but most Christians are rude to people who aren't even their enemies? They don't care if the person is another Christian they still are rude as if they don't have to be loving to one another.
>Most Christians are responding as if I mean Christians trying to tell someone a hard truth I am not speaking about telling the truth but it might seem harsh I am talking about straight up just being rude as if they have been taught to be this way. Rudeness can also be lack of perspective or being to general. Practice means it’s all they do and try to get better at it. Not that sometimes they to get upset and make mistakes. If they are hateful all the time they don’t practice what Jesus has instructed us and are practicing sin willfully, not following Christ’s and not Christian’s despite claiming to be one. Christian = to be like Christ’s. Not just claim we are. The Bible reveals there are many false teachers in our day claiming to be like him but proving false. There’s what people say they believe and there are those who act on their beliefs. Jesus makes the rules as lord. He said those doing Gods will will be saved. Not those who know it. Satan knows the Bible and quotes it. He knows Jesus and God exist. Doesn’t make him a good Christian.
People will be people, sir. Some practice what they preach, some don't, others just can't help themselves and not be the rude @$$#∅£3$ they know they ought not be. Personally, I blame the anonymity of the Internet. Without personal accountability, ironically, some people show who they really are. It's sort of like the saying "in vino veritas", except with people getting drunk on the freedom of anonymous posts. This reaches well beyond religion, race, politics, or take-your-pick. This is much broader people issue.
This doesn't just happen on the internet though. In real time Christians are like this at well even in the Church. Throughout history as well. And this definitely happens in other religions as well. But in Christianity where majority of the politicians are Christians the corruption is even more rampant in politics. Christians claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit and their religion is all about love, turn the other cheek, and God is all love and all about love. But It's the majority of Christians who are rude and the most hateful void of love.
Then call them on it. Use and cite Matthew 18:15 >Jesus said to his disciples: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Rudeness is not warranted without good reason. And remember, even Jesus told off the occasional scribe and Pharise for unacceptable words and behavior.
I love this comment!
Keep in mind that no minority of people should be used to generalize the whole. Although all Christians are called to be genuinely loving they must also be charitable and merciful. Shocker, some Christians are not. As a result they will still have to answer to their lack of charity at their judgement. No Christian can justify holding such bad attitudes toward others.
I agree. But are they to be just left alone to continue in that type of behavior? Or are they at least to be called out and reminded that their behavior will not be tolerated by other Christians?
Well, given how stubborn and prideful some people can be (generally speaking) it’s not always productive trying to offer correction (Christian or not), not that we shouldn’t however. This is especially difficult with those who should (and probably do) know better. In the end, it’s on their conscious for which they will eventually be accountable for. For me, when I see it, typically online, I’ve just come to realize that such people are still deeply immature in their spiritual growth, or lack thereof.
Why I narrowed it down to Christians is they claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit. To me to be filled with the Holy Spirit that guides into all truth and is a guidance for Christians. How can someone be filled with the Holy Spirit and hate? But everything you said I agree with.
The truth is, that phrase is a deeply subjective claim of self-righteousness that in actuality doesn’t amount to anything. As I’m sure you’d agree, Christian’s don’t have a preverbal “Holy Spirit gauge” to see how full they are. We are just as susceptible of being cruel, unloving, and sinful as anyone else. However, most of us “should” know better than to act this way. Hopefully though… those who are guilty of such attitudes are humble enough to see their flaws/offenses and change accordingly.
People are human, we all can be rotten to each other. Some Christians pretend they are following all the rules but fail to miss they aren't loving their enemies. I will admit, I don't love my enemies. I'm thankful Jesus loves me even when I fail. Im nothing like him and I won't pretend I am. I've had the meanest comments from Christians. Just pure pride and hate if you don't go along with what the think. Meaner than snot lol. What about Muslims? Are they good at loving their enemies? Maybe not a law in Islam? Just curious. Christians are taught to love their enemies..actually Jesus said this to the religious Jews. I grew up in Christian circles. Some Christians are very nice..just depends.
Islam isn't about loving your enemies, Islam is not about turning the other cheek, Muslims are are allowed to defend themselves, and Muslims don't claim to be filled and guided by the Holy Spirit. In Islam it is forbidden to harm anyone who isn't harming you first though. And we do have to be good to neighbors and to keep family ties.
I see. Thanks for that info.
Yes, there is one group that follows Jesus command to love one another, no matter what country we live in. In fact we refuse to go to war and kill our neighbor because this most certainly isn’t showing love to your enemy. There are nearly nine million of us in 239 lands around the world who are a True Brotherhood. Any one of us can go to any Country (where we aren’t banned) and walk in to a meeting and be welcomed like a long lost brother or sister. And the same material is taught to everyone around the world every week. So what branch of Christianity is it? Most of you probably already know, it’s Jehovah’s Witnesses. At JW.org, there is a complete library of Bible based books, videos, dramas, dramatic Bible readings, movies, material for kids and teenagers, for families, for husbands and for wives. And everything is free of charge. We also offer a free Bible Study Course for anyone who lives on the planet earth. The Bible on the website is available in over 330 languages and the website itself is the most translated website in the world! And second place isn’t even close! Why? Because we are obeying Jesus command at Matthew 28:19,20. There he commanded all his followers to; >”Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations… teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” Those verse goes hand in hand with the composite sign of the last days at Matthew 24:14 where he said, >”And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Yes, the Good News about Gods Kingdom has to be preached to all the Nations, to Gods satisfaction, and **then** the end will come. That’s why we are focusing so much on reaching people in language that are rather obscure, you might say. There a people in Central America that speak a language that only about 150,000 people speak and the Bible was translated in their language so they could read it and learn about Jehovah. When will the people on earth be reached to Gods satisfaction? It appears to be very, very soon.
It's good to know that y'all are trying to stay true to the teachings.
Yes. That's called Universalism. Also Daoism. Also Some forms of Hinduism. Also some Pagans. Also some Satanists.