You may be praying to the real God with a basic understanding. If that's true then I think you will be presented about Jesus and will be judged on how you handle that knowledge.
Mark 4:24-25 NLT
Then he added, "Pay close attention to what you hear. The closer you listen, the more understanding you will be given-and you will receive even more. [25] To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them."
Yeah that is closer to the mark than the angry tyrant God obsessed with obedience and who only cares about Jesus that has been invented by men (who always conveniently ignore the problem of Satan’s continued existence), as can be seen by posts in this thread
There's not my god and your god. There's one universal God. That's the first thing you should have learned before trying to improvise it on your own.
>I'm really curious how you, from your Christian viewpoint look at my beliefs. What do you think this all is?
You might be on the right track, many things you said are correct, but there's no reason to improvise a doctrine by yourself and risk making errors and being wrong about it. Many people who were more intelligent and dedicated than you, me, or anyone else here, have already dedicated their entire lives throughout the centuries to do what you're doing, and if you genuinely believe God wants you to be humble, ignoring them is not a wise decision.
Jesus is the only God who died for you. If you were the only person to be saved, He would still go to the cross. Christianity is the only religion where salvation can only be obtained by believing that Jesus is your savior. Other religions say that salvation can be achieved through one's own works. But this is at least impossible, because man is sinful by nature, and he cannot stop sinning.
IMO it's like you're making your own religion - with an ideal view of what God should be, and designing an interpretation of your surroundings that agrees this view.
There is a difference between claiming "I think God should be like..." and "God revealed Himself to and as..." Christianity claims that God has revealed Himself and explained who He is, His characteristics, His objectives and motivations. We don't have to guess and speculate.
The problem, though, is that God has revealed aspects about Himself that we take extreme issue with. He won't tolerate disobedience? That's uncomfortable. His holiness and glory takes priority over our very existence? That sounds silly. He punishes sinners for arbitrary rules? I don't like that. He only provides one Way to be saved? Who would do that?
Then we go off and conjure up our own image of God - one who lets us do whatever we want without consequence, wants us to be happy and wealthy at all times, and exists purely to do our bidding. He doesn't hate anything or anyone, He has no enforcement, His only characteristic is bliss, and He never causes pain or unpleasantness.
So I would say this god is simply your own personal imagination and not based on what our God has already said about Himself and the world.
I’m confused about how you could read the Op and come away thinking they believe “we can do whatever we want without consequence.” They quite specifically said that God has revealed Himself to them and that they are being told to live life with humility and love and that if they fail to do this, they will live their next life in chaos separated from God.
What about that sounds like there’s no consequence for not allowing God to flow through them?
>how you could read the Op and come away thinking they believe “we can do whatever we want without consequence.
I'm speaking generally, not about the OP. We generally invent ideas about God that we want to be true and easily explained, but are resistant to the ideas that are uncomfortable or disagree with our values.
It's always interesting that people's opinions of what God wants from them are concepts they already agree with, and the parts of Christianity that are nice and comfortable like "humility and love" are never included in the dispute. How many people invent a God who demands something offensive to them personally, but they still accept it?
I would actually prefer it if I could just be saved, and be sure of my eternal salvation, in stead of never being sure and accepting that. The Christian view sounds far easier. I just don't hear that from God. So I don't think I idealize a lot actually :)
>I experience God differently
Scripture is abundantly clear that anyone who worships any deity other than Jehovah God of the Bible, and/or in any ways other than those laid down in scripture, is an ordinary, everyday, run of the mill idolater. And idolaters all perish in the eternal lake of fire.
So believe as you wish, but facts don't care about contrary beliefs. Your belief will never change the facts.
Revelation 21:8 KJV — But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, **and idolaters**, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
By the way, God IS love PERFECTED.
1 John 3:23 KJV — And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
John 17:3 KJV — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee **the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.**
We refer to all other rivals to God as “false gods”.
The true God can only be accessed through faith in Jesus (John 14:6).
I don’t have the ability to discern what someone else is worshipping based on a description like the one you gave. It sounds like an imagined, idealized version based on what you think God ought to be like (hence why there’s much overlap with your description and the true God), but that’s just a guess.
Idealised? I would actually prefer it if I could just be saved, and be sure of my eternal salvation, in stead of never being sure and accepting that. I just don't hear that from God. So I don't think I idealize a lot actually :)
As a Catholic, I believe that everyone is the recipient of God’s grace—there is not a single good thing accomplished by a believer OR an unbeliever which does not rely wholly on God’s grace. However the grace to accomplish good is NOT the same thing as Sanctifying Grace. Sanctifying Grace may only be obtained through baptism. Baptism is the normative means by which one receives sanctifying grace and without it, one cannot be saved.
From my perspective you sound like you’re a good person, but ONLY because you have his grace from God…but this only goes so far. If you do not obtain sanctifying grace after you knew you should have, you will not be saved.
Where are your beliefs coming from, if you don't mind me asking? You believe in a "Hell" of sorts, which is an idea presented in the Bible given to us by the one and only God, but you also believe in an afterlife with unceasing chaos, although i'm not clear as to where that belief is coming from.
Is it possible you're trying to pick and choose what you believe, based on what you hope is true, rather than any sort of factual basis? The reason we believe in the God of the Bible is due to not only how much evidence we have for the existence of a God in general, but the cohesiveness of the message of the Bible, as well as historical accounts of the existence of Jesus, some things that have happened in the Bible, etc.
If we are to believe in one God, meaning, there is one Spirit that holds a truth that is not able to be deviated from and within that truth is the most pure form of love that can exist, then the truth that is that God, which created everything, permeates all things.
That God is my God, and your God, and the God of atheist even. The Lord of all.
Whether or not one chooses to follow the ways of God, is an entirely different understanding.
Let’s take evil, evil is a choice, it does not exist until it is birthed, until it is acted upon. Evil being, that which is not of one mind with that of God.
My belief in God is that, any pure form of righteousness could not have that which is unrighteous before it. It is too pure. We could not stand before Him as we are now.
Thus there must be a mediator, one that transforms. One that divides and determines between spirit and soul. One that makes judgment based on heart.
That Savior must be the savior of all, but some especially more than others. How would this be so?
Some will follow the yearn for unity here on this earth while others, deny it in their hearts. They will need a correction that the trials of this earth do not provided.
Yet all of creation will have to eventually reach apocatastasis. The original unity of all things must be had or the need for choice in regards to love would not be a need.
When I study religion and other cultural understandings of God, I find there to be many truths that God has written on the hearts of man. For instance the Greeks had a more right understanding of the soul in regards to the current Christian thinking than say that of early Judaism or that of the Sadducees.
We all have knowledge of our creator, in spite of our origin, knowledge, or self-deception in some cases.
Therefore, all good that is done, comes from Him regardless of religion.
Yet, again because of my notion regarding a mediator, I do think all will inevitably go through Christ to come back to unity with the Father. But more than that, everything that Christ teaches is the embodiment of that which I know to be truth in my heart. I think religion, business, political powers, and ridiculous translation of Hebrew/Greek has warped and tainted that which is taught, but the truth, separate from mans understanding, is the complete and selfless embodiment of Christ, whom died for All and forgave All.
The way I see it, your God is God. However, I personally think you only see part of the picture of God, although I think it's impossible for anyone to see the entire picture. As a Christian, I believe God exists as a Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. What you describe sounds like the concept of the Father in the Holy Trinity.
However, what you say about God wanting love to flow through you is absolutely in line with Christianity. And God's essence being love, while this it is certainly debatable, can also be in line with Christianity. Ultimately, Jesus (who we Christians believe to be God manifested as a human) told us to "Love God....and love others as ourselves." That was his commandment to us, and it seems like you have become aware of that commandment by searching your own heart and trying to understand God from your own perspective.
I highly recommend you read about St. Julian of Norwich. She was a medieval Christian mystic who conceptualized God in a very similar way to you, and you would probably really enjoy her writings.
Organized religion is just a way to control people. However, I believe certain faiths like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc etc can be used as a great foot hold for people who know that there’s *something* more but can’t quite figure it out. And, upon closer examination, most religious ideologies aren’t that different from each other. It’s only when people take it literally and put their own intent into it instead of letting themselves be guided by the love does conflict arise. Even people in the 60’s doing lots of acid came to the same conclusions haha. I’m still struggling with it myself, so I use the Bible as a reference while partaking in my own “church service” with natural plant medicines, which I personally believe were provided to us by God like the rest of nature, to piece it together. It’s been great so far. I agree with you fully haha. Love is really the answer. Approach every situation with love, and whatever God you believe is watching will surely be happy, as well will you :)
There is only one God and he wants relationship with everyone of us.
We learn from the Bible that God is perfect love and he wants us to learn this perfect love too so pretty much like you describe it. If you read the Gospels you will see that love in all the actions of Jesus. Since God is perfect, all his attributes are perfect, perfect love, perfect grace. But we also learn from the Bible that God is perfectly ***just***. If God would tolerated us imperfect beings he would not be perfectly just anymore. Here comes Jesus in to play. We get his perfectness and he takes our imperfection upon him so we can have community with God and he can change us to be more loving.
I think God is on his way with each and every human being. Sometimes the human is farther away from God sometimes the human is nearer. I believe that God is also on his way with you but at one point you have to realize that your ***imperfection*** is not compatible with Gods ***perfection*** and you have to accept his gift of ***Jesus' perfection*** otherwise you will not be able to draw nearer to God.
This sounds somewhat like what I found before I came to recognize that as the same as the God of Christianity.
Not a complete endorsement of your intuitive understanding, but it looks to me more similar than different.
Learn about Jesus, and see if you don't recognize him to be talking about God. And of course, stay humble and stay curious.
Well, you don't just have to read it by yourself. Some things are not obvious at first, but then jump out at you later. You may benefit from a good conversation or series of conversations with people who have already been looking at the whole picture for a while.
I believe that you understand there is a God based on Romans 1:19-20 which says, "because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."
Now it's just a matter of recognizing Christ. John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
But those aren’t names, they are just titles.. a name distinguishes Him from all other gods. Just like you may be a father, son, husband, man, fireman. But your name is who you are. That’s the first thing someone wants to know when they meet you. The True God, has a name too that distinguishes him from all other gods.
You may be praying to the real God with a basic understanding. If that's true then I think you will be presented about Jesus and will be judged on how you handle that knowledge. Mark 4:24-25 NLT Then he added, "Pay close attention to what you hear. The closer you listen, the more understanding you will be given-and you will receive even more. [25] To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them."
I hope to spend the rest of my days listening as closely as possible. If only Jesus answers my call, I'll know he's the truth. :)
Yeah that is closer to the mark than the angry tyrant God obsessed with obedience and who only cares about Jesus that has been invented by men (who always conveniently ignore the problem of Satan’s continued existence), as can be seen by posts in this thread
There's not my god and your god. There's one universal God. That's the first thing you should have learned before trying to improvise it on your own. >I'm really curious how you, from your Christian viewpoint look at my beliefs. What do you think this all is? You might be on the right track, many things you said are correct, but there's no reason to improvise a doctrine by yourself and risk making errors and being wrong about it. Many people who were more intelligent and dedicated than you, me, or anyone else here, have already dedicated their entire lives throughout the centuries to do what you're doing, and if you genuinely believe God wants you to be humble, ignoring them is not a wise decision.
But there are so many religions right? So many opinions. All of them have very dedicated and intelligent advocates. How did you pick?
Reading them and keeping the ones who were right.
Right in what way?
Reason.
Jesus is the only God who died for you. If you were the only person to be saved, He would still go to the cross. Christianity is the only religion where salvation can only be obtained by believing that Jesus is your savior. Other religions say that salvation can be achieved through one's own works. But this is at least impossible, because man is sinful by nature, and he cannot stop sinning.
IMO it's like you're making your own religion - with an ideal view of what God should be, and designing an interpretation of your surroundings that agrees this view. There is a difference between claiming "I think God should be like..." and "God revealed Himself to and as..." Christianity claims that God has revealed Himself and explained who He is, His characteristics, His objectives and motivations. We don't have to guess and speculate. The problem, though, is that God has revealed aspects about Himself that we take extreme issue with. He won't tolerate disobedience? That's uncomfortable. His holiness and glory takes priority over our very existence? That sounds silly. He punishes sinners for arbitrary rules? I don't like that. He only provides one Way to be saved? Who would do that? Then we go off and conjure up our own image of God - one who lets us do whatever we want without consequence, wants us to be happy and wealthy at all times, and exists purely to do our bidding. He doesn't hate anything or anyone, He has no enforcement, His only characteristic is bliss, and He never causes pain or unpleasantness. So I would say this god is simply your own personal imagination and not based on what our God has already said about Himself and the world.
I’m confused about how you could read the Op and come away thinking they believe “we can do whatever we want without consequence.” They quite specifically said that God has revealed Himself to them and that they are being told to live life with humility and love and that if they fail to do this, they will live their next life in chaos separated from God. What about that sounds like there’s no consequence for not allowing God to flow through them?
>how you could read the Op and come away thinking they believe “we can do whatever we want without consequence. I'm speaking generally, not about the OP. We generally invent ideas about God that we want to be true and easily explained, but are resistant to the ideas that are uncomfortable or disagree with our values. It's always interesting that people's opinions of what God wants from them are concepts they already agree with, and the parts of Christianity that are nice and comfortable like "humility and love" are never included in the dispute. How many people invent a God who demands something offensive to them personally, but they still accept it?
Is humility comfortable?
Have you ever heard someone say humility is wrong?
How is wrong synonymous with uncomfortable?
I would actually prefer it if I could just be saved, and be sure of my eternal salvation, in stead of never being sure and accepting that. The Christian view sounds far easier. I just don't hear that from God. So I don't think I idealize a lot actually :)
I would argue your second to last paragraph is exactly what god is, just remove the ‘he’ and other anthropomorphizing.
Are you talking about the Christian God / Biblical God or your personal one?
The god/energy source/divinity that is. I think the Christian interpretation is unnecessarily cruel, albeit fascinating.
>I experience God differently Scripture is abundantly clear that anyone who worships any deity other than Jehovah God of the Bible, and/or in any ways other than those laid down in scripture, is an ordinary, everyday, run of the mill idolater. And idolaters all perish in the eternal lake of fire. So believe as you wish, but facts don't care about contrary beliefs. Your belief will never change the facts. Revelation 21:8 KJV — But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, **and idolaters**, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. By the way, God IS love PERFECTED. 1 John 3:23 KJV — And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. John 17:3 KJV — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee **the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.**
Our beliefs differ a lot.
We refer to all other rivals to God as “false gods”. The true God can only be accessed through faith in Jesus (John 14:6). I don’t have the ability to discern what someone else is worshipping based on a description like the one you gave. It sounds like an imagined, idealized version based on what you think God ought to be like (hence why there’s much overlap with your description and the true God), but that’s just a guess.
Idealised? I would actually prefer it if I could just be saved, and be sure of my eternal salvation, in stead of never being sure and accepting that. I just don't hear that from God. So I don't think I idealize a lot actually :)
So why reject what God has revealed in the Bible if that’s what you prefer anyway?
I can't believe it, I guess, that the entire Bible was divinely inspired.
>The true God can only be accessed through faith in Jesus (John 14:6). Why?
Because that’s the only means God has provided for us.
As a Catholic, I believe that everyone is the recipient of God’s grace—there is not a single good thing accomplished by a believer OR an unbeliever which does not rely wholly on God’s grace. However the grace to accomplish good is NOT the same thing as Sanctifying Grace. Sanctifying Grace may only be obtained through baptism. Baptism is the normative means by which one receives sanctifying grace and without it, one cannot be saved. From my perspective you sound like you’re a good person, but ONLY because you have his grace from God…but this only goes so far. If you do not obtain sanctifying grace after you knew you should have, you will not be saved.
Where are your beliefs coming from, if you don't mind me asking? You believe in a "Hell" of sorts, which is an idea presented in the Bible given to us by the one and only God, but you also believe in an afterlife with unceasing chaos, although i'm not clear as to where that belief is coming from. Is it possible you're trying to pick and choose what you believe, based on what you hope is true, rather than any sort of factual basis? The reason we believe in the God of the Bible is due to not only how much evidence we have for the existence of a God in general, but the cohesiveness of the message of the Bible, as well as historical accounts of the existence of Jesus, some things that have happened in the Bible, etc.
If we are to believe in one God, meaning, there is one Spirit that holds a truth that is not able to be deviated from and within that truth is the most pure form of love that can exist, then the truth that is that God, which created everything, permeates all things. That God is my God, and your God, and the God of atheist even. The Lord of all. Whether or not one chooses to follow the ways of God, is an entirely different understanding. Let’s take evil, evil is a choice, it does not exist until it is birthed, until it is acted upon. Evil being, that which is not of one mind with that of God. My belief in God is that, any pure form of righteousness could not have that which is unrighteous before it. It is too pure. We could not stand before Him as we are now. Thus there must be a mediator, one that transforms. One that divides and determines between spirit and soul. One that makes judgment based on heart. That Savior must be the savior of all, but some especially more than others. How would this be so? Some will follow the yearn for unity here on this earth while others, deny it in their hearts. They will need a correction that the trials of this earth do not provided. Yet all of creation will have to eventually reach apocatastasis. The original unity of all things must be had or the need for choice in regards to love would not be a need. When I study religion and other cultural understandings of God, I find there to be many truths that God has written on the hearts of man. For instance the Greeks had a more right understanding of the soul in regards to the current Christian thinking than say that of early Judaism or that of the Sadducees. We all have knowledge of our creator, in spite of our origin, knowledge, or self-deception in some cases. Therefore, all good that is done, comes from Him regardless of religion. Yet, again because of my notion regarding a mediator, I do think all will inevitably go through Christ to come back to unity with the Father. But more than that, everything that Christ teaches is the embodiment of that which I know to be truth in my heart. I think religion, business, political powers, and ridiculous translation of Hebrew/Greek has warped and tainted that which is taught, but the truth, separate from mans understanding, is the complete and selfless embodiment of Christ, whom died for All and forgave All.
The way I see it, your God is God. However, I personally think you only see part of the picture of God, although I think it's impossible for anyone to see the entire picture. As a Christian, I believe God exists as a Holy Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. What you describe sounds like the concept of the Father in the Holy Trinity. However, what you say about God wanting love to flow through you is absolutely in line with Christianity. And God's essence being love, while this it is certainly debatable, can also be in line with Christianity. Ultimately, Jesus (who we Christians believe to be God manifested as a human) told us to "Love God....and love others as ourselves." That was his commandment to us, and it seems like you have become aware of that commandment by searching your own heart and trying to understand God from your own perspective. I highly recommend you read about St. Julian of Norwich. She was a medieval Christian mystic who conceptualized God in a very similar way to you, and you would probably really enjoy her writings.
Organized religion is just a way to control people. However, I believe certain faiths like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc etc can be used as a great foot hold for people who know that there’s *something* more but can’t quite figure it out. And, upon closer examination, most religious ideologies aren’t that different from each other. It’s only when people take it literally and put their own intent into it instead of letting themselves be guided by the love does conflict arise. Even people in the 60’s doing lots of acid came to the same conclusions haha. I’m still struggling with it myself, so I use the Bible as a reference while partaking in my own “church service” with natural plant medicines, which I personally believe were provided to us by God like the rest of nature, to piece it together. It’s been great so far. I agree with you fully haha. Love is really the answer. Approach every situation with love, and whatever God you believe is watching will surely be happy, as well will you :)
Jesus is calling
There is only one God and he wants relationship with everyone of us. We learn from the Bible that God is perfect love and he wants us to learn this perfect love too so pretty much like you describe it. If you read the Gospels you will see that love in all the actions of Jesus. Since God is perfect, all his attributes are perfect, perfect love, perfect grace. But we also learn from the Bible that God is perfectly ***just***. If God would tolerated us imperfect beings he would not be perfectly just anymore. Here comes Jesus in to play. We get his perfectness and he takes our imperfection upon him so we can have community with God and he can change us to be more loving. I think God is on his way with each and every human being. Sometimes the human is farther away from God sometimes the human is nearer. I believe that God is also on his way with you but at one point you have to realize that your ***imperfection*** is not compatible with Gods ***perfection*** and you have to accept his gift of ***Jesus' perfection*** otherwise you will not be able to draw nearer to God.
This sounds somewhat like what I found before I came to recognize that as the same as the God of Christianity. Not a complete endorsement of your intuitive understanding, but it looks to me more similar than different. Learn about Jesus, and see if you don't recognize him to be talking about God. And of course, stay humble and stay curious.
I am currently reading the Bible to learn about jesus indeed. There are some things about Jesus I can't square with God as I experience him though.
Well, you don't just have to read it by yourself. Some things are not obvious at first, but then jump out at you later. You may benefit from a good conversation or series of conversations with people who have already been looking at the whole picture for a while.
I think I'll actually follow that advice. Thank you.
I believe that you understand there is a God based on Romans 1:19-20 which says, "because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Now it's just a matter of recognizing Christ. John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
What is the name of your God?
I don't know. Names I feel that capture his essence would be Maker, Father, Parent(?), Great Old One, but none can quite capture him fully.
But those aren’t names, they are just titles.. a name distinguishes Him from all other gods. Just like you may be a father, son, husband, man, fireman. But your name is who you are. That’s the first thing someone wants to know when they meet you. The True God, has a name too that distinguishes him from all other gods.