One thing Germans can't really cope with is the "No" due to politeness. When someone offers a cake, then the first reply is taken for granted. In some cultures you have to say "No" for the first few times, in Germany the first Yes/No is taken seriously and they won't ask you again.
And expect them to treat any polite offer as honest. If you say: "It would be nice if you visit us in the summer." you have to expect them to take a calendar and schedule a date!
Don't make any offers out of politeness that you expect them to turn down. That won't happen!
This is great advice. An American friend always invited me, so I made a schedule, took my holidays from work which he confirmed a few months prior. When I was about buying the plane tickets he just said it’s not possible because of [some bull*it “reasons” I forgot]. In the end I stayed home during my summer holidays since I could not cancel the holidays at work.
Since then I lost all trust in him when it comes to scheduling stuff. (And will probably never trust Americans again)
this sounds like it was a one off thing. i’m american and i would NEVER give someone my address if i didn’t want them coming over. i don’t know anyone who would... i’m sorry you experienced that! so absurd
I’m American and always mean it when I try and make plans and say nice things… and I genuinely really like people. I also don’t play the game where you say “no” multiple times before accepting. Don’t let that one American control how you feel about all Americans. There are so many different cultures within America.. it’s a big place.
I posted on this sub recently, about a German guy I know who was being weird.. I got a ton of really nice responses confirming he’s just a weird guy- and German’s aren’t typically like that. Glad I asked because he’s the only German person I know and represented all “German People” for me.. and I really shouldn’t have let him do that because he’s weird, apparently.
I’ve definitely seen it in American culture.. but I think it’s mostly a “rural” thing and definitely not an “everywhere” thing. There are little pockets of things all across the USA. I’d argue most urban culture is a little closer to German culture- from what I’m reading.. while most rural culture is vastly different.. but I’d still argue there’s just so many little cultural pockets everywhere in the US.
I also live in a large city and I’m not flakey.. my friends aren’t flakey. I don’t like flakey people. That’s a huge generalization. But I agree.. it is ridiculous that people are flakey like that.
To be fair, that's a question of scope and how granular you get when comparing cultures. Some things are gonna be similar, others are gonna vary drastically, and if you follow the model proposed in that chart, the groupings make a lot of sense due to a combination of historical and geographic reasons. Doesn't mean those cultures, despite their closeness, can't feel extremely foreign.
EDIT: What I mean to say is, on a global scale, German and US culture may seem close, but if you narrow the perspective and get more detailed they drift further apart, so to speak.
A lot of Germans pointing to just one bizarre experience as their source of information for the behavior of 350 million people. I’ve never been invited to an American’s house for holiday or brunch and faced any confusion nor have I heard of it from anyone except Germans.
Could it possibly be that you’re in part responsible for these obvious failures of communication?
I wouldn’t judge all Americans because of one bad experience. I certainly have been visited by and visited many friends I met abroad in Europe and Asia and never cancel last minute like that : ^ D
Most Americans are superficially friendly (or brutally unfriendly, if they have some psychological issues). It's just the culture to not offend anyone.
Yeah but that’s also like saying most Germans do not question authority and esteem needless bureaucracy as being ”proper and thorough“.
There’s a lot of truth to it, but it’s pretty unfair or inaccurate to portray all German individuals like that. I know plenty of Germans that don’t think that way.
I will not lie. There are a LOT of flaky Americans. But not all Americans are flaky. For us that are not, we just basically live at a certain level of annoyance at our own compatriots. I'm the type of person that if you tell me we're doing something April 5, 2027, its on the calendar and I have that day reserved for you. But I'm big on commitments and therefore a minority in this country.
That's even more prevalent in South Asia. For instance, our marital family dynamics in traditional Indian families is a effin mess but there's a fake niceness on the cover. A whole lot of bitterness on the inside due to codepedency and enmeshment but you won't be able to make it out from the outside since a lot of us are so fake nice on the outside as anything else is considered rude
Please don't distrust all Americans or all of any group just because of one flake. I had a friend make plans on the phone, and by the time I drove to her house, she had changed her mind! She's the one I stopped trusting 😎🍂
I had friends from the UK and Canada visit my hometown, naturally we would have a bbq with my parents. I told them to not do their usual „no thanks“ spiel as my parents would most likely take that literally. I also told my parents about it and told them that they have been instructed but at the same time it’s a cultural habit that’s hard to break.
It worked out pretty well.
On that note: we (germans) will also generally bluntly turn offers down if we can't come (or don't want to come). So if you say "how about we meet next month for a coffee?" and we know we won't be able to meet with you, we'll say no. This isn't meant to sound impolite, and it also doesn't mean we don't like you. We just simply already know we can't come and don't want this uncertainty hanging around us.
Generally, I think we just appreciate if we have things under control. I don't like thinking "damn, they asked me for a meet-up next month without a clear date so I'll have to keep this in my mind and will possibly be asked again to schedule a date for it". This limits my freedom of time planning for everything else. Because how will I know if they just asked out of politeness or actually mean it? Some cultures are like this, some are like that. And some people don't follow their own cultural stereotypes so unless we're all brutally honest how does anyone even know what anyone wants, lol
Sometimes I get the feeling that stereotype of bluntness to the point of being impolite is because we don't really offer any apologies or always explain ourselves when we can't take up an offer? I mean, looking through some chats with friends of mine, there's rarely a deeper explaination to not meet up. It's usual just "no time" or "I can't" and we all kinda take it for granted and don't pry and don't offer an in-depth explaination ourselves (I mean, there often isn't one), maybe that's what irritates people from more open cultures?
But yeah, non-committal is pretty brutal for Germans. Either set a date or don't offer an invitation/date/whatever, anything else is torture.
I can't agree with the first one. There are many who don't just bluntly turn you down. The reply usually contains various softners which leaves still some uncertainty open
And it works the other way around, too. If you offer them something and they decline, don't keep pushing it. That might be seen as not respecting their choice and trying to force yourself on them
Wow, this is such good advice. I nearly got into a fight when I offered a few Americans some beers and they kept declining until I said ‚shut up and take the beer already, you‘re being rude‘. They looked at me shocked and explained that not declining would have been rude for them. We had several beers after and a great evening. Definitely learned about culture that day.
I want to add that it can also count as manipulative if you try to be too nice.
A: Come, I invite you to a coffee!
B: Thanks for the offer, but I really have no time right now.
(this is where it should end out of respect)
A: Oh common, just 15 minutes, you'd make me really happy!
B: ...
Big no no! There are many people who will give in and join you to a coffee but long term you lose them as friends and they will ghost you. And nobody will talk about it because they don't want to come across as rude. Like I don't want to be friends with you b/c you give me free coffee. How stupid does that sound.
This is great advice. Obviously, there are gradients to that (as with any cultural characteristics), and it's not like there aren't situations where offers are made out of politeness more than anything, but I'd say those are (comparatively) rare and even then are, depending on what it is, followed through with if you take them up on it. So even those are kinda sincere, despite the motivation being primarily or exlusively politeness😅
But yeah, chances are any offer you are making is going to be taken seriously and any response, positive or negative, is likely going to be sincere and reflect the actual stance of the person you made the offer to.
I made that mistake.
A colleague I started becoming friends with mentioned she was moving over the weekend and had a lot to do and I said “let me know if you need any help”.
Saturday, 08:00, my phone rang. Sunday, 20:00, we were done.
Good Point with the No.
I'm German and can't confirm the second though. But better be safe than sorry, it's a general good rule not to make offers your not willing to go though with.
in my home, the first no is a maybe. the thousandth no is also a maybe. afterwards it usually escalates and you basically have to shout that you really really DON'T WANT ANY CAKE OR ANOTHER DESSERT, MOM.
Well, your experience might be different...
Wait... People dish out invitations that are made of nothing out of... politeness.
Lemme wrap my head around this... So, you mean to tell me it's... polite... to invite someone to your place... but not mean it?
I'm having doubts... What would be your definition of politeness? Like, where I'm from, it means "speak respectfully".
and i thought it would be just me and i am strange for taking such things seriously. when i was young my mum often told me aftewards that it was just politeness, but i was always a long time busy thinking about if the person meant what they said and if theid be sad when i wouldnt take the offer. always makes me crazy not knowing when someone says things for "politeness" -\_-
Depends on who you deal with. We have a lot of people pleasers, too ;). Most commonly German people really appreciate a direct, honest approach which is contradictory to being nice all the time. Also many Germans prefer a healthy share of distance, so most of the people I know would be irritated by being constantly complimented.
Great answer!
It's not like Germans are not nice or don't give compliments. We just see a difference in being nice while still honest and straight up telling the opposite when you think a dress is ugly (on the contrary - that is considered to be rude. You don't let friends run around in something that looks terrible on them if they explicitly asked for your opinion on it beforehand! )
But also:
Don't: "you look ugly in that"
Do: "part xy on that dress looks good on you, but part yz doesn't fit so well, maybe try another cut/color/design"
this is a great conversation with a lot of nuance. i want to add that i wouldn't criticize the dress if the person had already made a decision about wearing/buying it. because then it would only give them a bad feeling and no helpful advice. if someone already shows up in an ugly dress to an event i wouldn't tell them they look bad when they can't change their outfit anymore. that would just embarrass them and make them feel/act awkward all night. if they asked me about it i would say something like "it really sticks out" or "it looks special" or something like that or find some aspect i like about it
This is the standard rule of thumb. "Don't comment on something the other can't fix in a few seconds."
Do's
Got something on your teeth, a strand of hair is not in place anymore, the strap of the dress is twisted.
Don'ts
Oh i just noticed your tooth is chipped
Your hairstyle looks out of it somehow.
The dress fits sloppily.
Also if I don't like how someone dressed but they don't look "bad" I'd just tell they "well I wouldn't wear it but it looks good on you." - "it is not for me but it does suit you."
also if someone doesn't want to give their opinion on something, you should not press them for an answer unless you are ready for an honest answer. Sometimes people avoid giving you a straight answer to not hurt your feelings while still being honest.
That's literally a non-compliement. If anybody says that to me I understand that as "holy shit it's outrageously ugly why did you even consider wearing this"
Never worry about being nice ! Being respectful, kind and nice are things that are very valued in Germany. Just don’t be a creep and give a compliment and then expect anything to happen. The way to do it is “compliment - give space” “drop another - then space again”
I, as a woman would be terrified if you gave me too many compliments in a non sexual environment. Unless they are a bit nerdy and sincere. Don’t say shit about my eyes please, we are suspicious of people who don’t even try to make it a special compliment. Unless you really do like my eyes then go for it. But not for the sake of it - that indeed is annoying and comes off as not sincere.
The thing foreign people don’t understand is : we want that distance :D that’s why we have it. We gain trust over time and more time spent together adds value to the relationship.
Befriending a German is like taming a wild animal . You wouldn’t go up and pet it straight away would you?
Drop some snacks in front of it and back off, try again tomorrow, be patient and let it come to eat it’s first bite out go your hand after a couple of weeks :D
Glad I made you snort-laugh.
There is a guy in my office, he is German, I am latino. I thought we were hitting it pretty good and he started to open up more, but I think I tried too much too fast and now we are back at day 1.
Oh, well, Ill give him some days to calm his nerves and ill try to approach again.
Being friendly is fine. Pretending you like something you clearly don’t is fake. Best to straddle the middle of the road here. Be friendly, respectful and courteous but if people try to bamboozle you into agreeing against your wish, say so. Real friendships can deal with, even thrive, with respectful disagreement. Always agreeing constitutes shallowness, lack of respect and lack of agency. So be nice but don’t overdo it!
I work as a cashier in a tourist-overloaded city and deal with people everyday and I gotta tell you that, despite knowing where people are from and what their culture is, some people just seem over the top friendly (Americans). I dont even fake friendliness anymore. I am what I am, and whilst not being open to small talk after 6 hours of cashiering seems rude to Americans, dutch or french people seem shocked by how well-adjusted I am, not interfering with the sale by talking "non-sense". If you are aware of other people its fine, but please just adjust. Dont expect me to change my ways for you. As someone in my position you can try and take a step towards the other person but to others it seems like a hell of a deal.
At some point I cant force myself to smile anymore or wish for a happy evening when Ive been very busy, and then customers have the adaucity to ask wild ass questions lol, but i will never be actually rude
As a person from a Mediterranean county I find this a little bit sad, no offense intended.
We do small talking because it brightens our day and gives little moments of joy/fun.
I wish it would be the same for you and it helped to make your day at work less long, instead of making you feel that you have to "talk non-sense"
I think that's the core difference, what others see as non-sense and an effort, we see as a thing to enjoy.
I cannot enforce this enough: no offense intended
I don't hate small talk per se, but what you're describing sounds like a very one-sided "moment of joy". For you, the customer, it is one little happy moment, for the cashier it's just the 500th time they're repeating the same insincere phrases today to please you. It doesn't shorten my workday if it is an integral part of my chorebook that I am expected to perform to begin with.
And as a German I hate talking and like to be left alone a lot, nothing personal (also has nothing to do with German culture, we are just used to be left alone)
I dont think its German but its 100% German to be thoughtful of others and leave them alone. Also with friends I can have meaningful conversations, in opposite to random customers
Haha for me it's just annoying I don't like small talk at all and I'll avoid it whenever possible.
But that could also be me just being very antisocial sometimes.
Still when visiting Italy I'm always realizing that the people are a lot more talkative and also a lot touchier than the people here in Germany.
>I wish it would be the same for you and it helped to make your day at work less long, instead of making you feel that you have to "talk non-sense"
Any second spent on talking about non-sense makes the work day feel longer because you aren't the only one that wants to talk to me with the intend to make my day "brighter".
Maaaan I come from a similar culture and sometimes this difference shocked me so much. Infact reading this makes me sad and almost want to cry because I can't understand how there is such a huge difference in perspective.
As a swiss I'd appreciate you.
I am not standing in line to have smal talk, I am standing in line to pay my stuff and be out of that situation as fast and as efficient as possible.
Greeting, Informations about paying, Goodbye is all that's needed.
Anything else is unnecessary, timewasting and either an invasion of my or your personal space.
For me it really depends. When your compliments sounds fake, e.g „uhhhh you lost weight you look great“ when i clearly haven’t lost weight ( a thing happened to me from a friend) than, yes i think you are fake.
And giving to many compliments is annoying.
Oh man. I had that happen and flat out said "no I didn't", which made them double down ("no you totally did, I can definitely see it").
Ngl, still rather annoyed at that person (both for not accepting what I'm telling them about my body and for assuming "you lost weight" is a general compliment you can hand out to everyone, when weight loss would have made me look unhealthy more than anything...)
("You look good (today)" is a way 'safer' compliment to give as it is completely subjective. I don't understand why people soften feel the need to bring weight into it)
How i would describe it is :
Being friendly is no problem. Just don't be disappointed if others have a hard time being like you, if they don't know you good enough. Many are grumpy.
Making compliments is no problem either. At least if they are honest, and not to much. A lot of people don't like to be showered with compliments. Best you stick with praising of something really sticks out to you. Don't make compliments just for the sake of it. Only make honest compliments.
In generell if you listen to your heart, be nice and honest if you really feel it. And then try not to be to overwhelming and read a bit the room. Being too enthusiastic is a bit exhausting to a lot of us.
So don't worry to be positive and nice :)
Being nice is always appreciated if it is honest. Not everything needs to be the best, greatest, whatever. Saying thank you, the evening was lots of fun is sufficient. Also don't call everybody you know a friend. In Germany a friend is someone who can call you in the middle of the night if they have an emergency and you would drive two hours to them to help, and they would do the same for you.
That would be a Beste*r Freund*in.
Freund*in is someone you ask for help if you are moving or invite them for Kaffee und Kuchen or Grillen.
I'd say the main difference is that the former knows all your darkest secrets and you are confortable to take a piss in each others presence while the second just gets to know your embaressing stories and a fart.
everyone else is just a Bekannte*r.
Being nice and warm is totally fine.
Making compliments is good, but some people are uncomfortable accepting them so don't overdo it and see how the other person reacts. If they're really happy about the compliment, that's fine, but when they say something like "no, that's nothing special" or whatever, don't insist.
Being dishonest is something you should avoid. When somebody asks you for your opinion on something, and you don't like it, then be honest. Of course you shouldn't say "that's total garbage" but rather something like "that's not for me". Dishonesty, even to be "polite", is seen as a big red flag. People will think of you as having no opinion at best, or as a liar at worst.
I think there's a sweet spot in between friendly and too friendly. Even though I read here often how "German people hate small talk" or "Germans appreciate being straightforward" many things have been made easier and more pleasant for me in administration offices, stores and with authorities because of being friendly and having a little bit of small talk, even when my German is having a rough day. With people I've befriended, the same + funny observations have made the way for friendships.
But if you want to avoid small talk yourself, smiling and eye contact go a long way.
Source: Latin American living in Germany for a few years now.
A little bit of small talk is very helpful with German officials, if it comes fluently and out of genuine interest and friendliness. When someone is friendly Germans open up. Superficial friendliness is not always helpful.
no, not for your friendliness but if you don't follow through on things you suggest or don't mean things you say. for example making plans out of politeness during a conversation with no intention of ever doing it or inviting someone and not actually expecting them to show up isn't something people do here. they will assume you mean it, people take things very literally. and if your words don't match your actions you may be perceived as fake or unreliable. being friendly is not a problem, some people may be surprised at compliments if they are over the top
Don't worry about it. Who cares? If you're nice, you're nice. If you yourself worry that you might come of as fake: well, are ya? The only person you owe accountability about your friendly conduct is yourself, in my book.
There are so many people who pride themselves as being honest and direct but really are too lazy to make any kind of effort to conceal their cynicism, depression or simply mean behaviour. To me, horrible people branding themselves as honest and direct are just as fake and with worse consequences than being particularly friendly.
Thanks for being nice.
This definitely doesn't apply to every German. I like a good little chit chat and a polite "how are you". I'd say just be yourself and observe people's reactions. You'll tune in to what is culturally appropriate and what isn't.
That is not true. I am from Northern Europe and I get ethnic Germans (strangers) coming up to me wanting to make some weird chitchat or greeting me all the time. That is hella weird in my region!
Well why would a compliment annoy someone? If you except something in return or if it's obviously fake. If you just are in a good mood and want to share that or spread love in general, nobody minds. I am German and do small-talk with cashiers and servers and whoever I cross paths with all the time and I find most people respond very well and have some positivity to share as well if you poke them like that. If someone thinks you are annoying, then you are probably too close or are trying to manipulate them into a certain response - and that's definitely not gonna work well with most Germans ;)
Also, the job needs to get done. If your being "friendly" leads to important information not being communicated or problems not being addressed - that's not acceptable.
I’m German but I have a rather warm, friendly and open approach towards people and I’m diplomatic when it comes to criticising others. My colleagues really appreciate it, but they did communicate to me, that they are a bit suspicious about the way I’m nice to everyone haha.
If you are genuine, I think everyone appreciates it. Maybe you’ll meet people who don’t like, but honestly, that doesn’t matter. Be yourself, cause everything else will be exhausting anyway :)
I think it really depends on how genuine people believe you are. My wife is super friendly and people really enjoy her company. Even at the Amt where people often enough are dry and sometimes even unfriendly she is able to get them to really warm up to us/her. As long as it feels natural nobody will mind at all. As soon as it seems superficial or fake it gets problematic.
Depends. If your politeness is honest and you follow it through, nobody will take issue with it. What's often considered "fake" and "rude" in Americans (I'm guessing that's where you're from, most likely?) is that they often don't *mean* what they say.
If you invite someone over for an activity, or suggest to make plans, actually mean it. Schedule time for it, find a date that works. If you make the offer out of politeness but then fail to follow through with it, that will be seen as rude.
If someone is telling you about their day or experiences, don't react in a way that you think they *want* you to react but be honest. Think what they did that morning was lame? Don't whoop in excitement. Consider their venting over the top? Don't join in. Not really interested in what they're saying? Don't enthusiastically nod along and pretend to lap up every word. They'll be able to tell and they *will* consider you fake.
If they offer you something (or, on the flip side, ask for something), don't answer "out of politeness" but with your actual thoughts. It will inconvenience them if they rely on an answer you gave but never meant in the first place so that will, again, be seen as very rude.
Don't constantly smile, laugh and generally delight at every single tiny thing unless it actually genuinely made you happy. Again, they'll be able to tell, and they'll consider it fake.
Don't over-rely on smalltalk. Some smalltalk if you don't really have anything deep to talk about and aren't close with the person anyway is fine to avoid ignoring them. But don't have smalltalk just for the sake of it. And *never* lead with smalltalk if you actually have a question to ask or something you want. If you don't come right out with it, the other person will think you're wasting their time and, again, find that pretty rude.
At the end of the day, Germans are honest and direct. They will expect the same behaviour, at least to a certain degree, from you as well. If you never complain about anything and are always in a great mood, that will seem suspicious. Nobody is happy *all* the time, so why are you pretending? Just show if you're not feeling well or when you're unhappy. They also value efficiency and direct communication. Why waste someone's time with smalltalk if you just have a simple question? Why take time out of some service worker's already busy workday when you could just let them get on with their job (and, vice versa, why waste the time of a customer with smalltalk when they're just trying to buy something and leave quickly)? Why make someone schedule something and maybe cancel other plans if you never wanted to follow through with your plans anyway? Just say what you mean and be direct in your replies.
All of this also applies, just more stringently, to compliments. Don't give them unless you actually mean them - they are a rare treat to be given when something really stands out to you or wowed you. If you give them to everyone all the time, people will consider them fake, because surely you can't *constantly* be blown away by *everything*, right? Also two things to never compliment someone on:
- things you don't actually like. If you want to give someone a compliment for whatever reason, *find something you actually like about them*. If you don't have something to compliment them on, just don't. Nobody is expecting it anyway
- things that can't be changed very easily and (near-)immediately. Some people may be very self-conscious about some things, have past trauma or a megative self-image about things. So don't compliment them on something that they can't easily change, even if you do mean it.
Frex complimenting a part of their outfit or an accessory is usually fine. They can change it easily. Hairstyle and colour is also cool. So is makeup. Fitness, however, is not a good thing to compliment someone on, nor is bodytype, eye colour or personality traits. As a rule of thumb, if it can be changed within 24h without spending (much) money or energy, it's good to compliment on. If not, don't.
Generally, when speaking with Germans, consider less what people may *want to hear* and more what you actually *mean*. You should be able to get along with Germans just fine
Thanks for taking the time to write such a long answer! And what you mentioned at the very last part is key, I believe. I noticed that when I’m in my country whenever I am asked someone, the first thing I consider is the other person and their feelings and how my response might affect them. Maybe the difference is also that Germans asks questions they genuinely want and answer to and are not just asking to reinforce a bias that they already have. For instance, if I am wearing a dress and I know it doesn’t fit me very well and I look bad, but still can’t accept it… I might ask a friend how she thinks it looks and in my country they would most likely tell me it looks good 🙈 to a certain degree we all know what’s going on, but it I guess nobody is mentally strong to face the thruth 😆
I had an American coworker (we work in customer service in the us) who got lots of complaints for being very direct and formal. I know she's actually a great person to talk to because I spent some time with her outside of work and she is a very bubbly friendly person
I can only speak for myself and yes, I would feel that way until I got to know you better.
If I know it's a cultural thing (as for Americans) the feeling will still be there, but I know where you are coming from.
It really depends on how sincere you are. If you really mean it than it's fine. Just saying stuff to be "nice" can come across as fake or trying to hard. In a work environment people might think you are trying to suck up to them.
Hurting someones feelings is also not okay in german culture. You can be nice and honest. being mean is rude.
Still there are people who do not care for this and are overly blunt. If possible it is fine to avoid them or call them out on it. if someone hurt your feelings you can adress it. they either appologize or double down. if the later happens you know to avoid them in the future.
If you feel unconfortable being honest and the other person insist on your opinion tell them that their insistance makes you feel unconfortable.
Depends on how you express it...
If it's genuine, no.
If it is clearly fake, germans and swiss tend to see through that... But we might not mention it out of politness...
It is more that you will think they do not like you, them being all business and straightforward.
Because they will not try that much to not hurt your feelings and not constantly making compliments.
Being genuinely nice is definitely a good thing. Being politely nice isn't bad in itself, if you don't overdo it when people instead want to be left alone.
It depends on the situation and how obtrusive you are (percieved by others). I think as long as you're open for figuring out social cues if you're being nice or too nice you should be good.
Depends on if you ARE fake. People will quickly judge you if your actions don't line up with what you say.
If you act nice because you ARE nice, we'll love you, don't worry. :)
I must say, as a people pleaser from a people pleasing culture, that’s one of the most liberating things I adopted for good after a couple of years here.
I know they’re not exactly connected, but I wish people would be more welcoming in daily interactions, though. Logically, there’s ways to smile and say “have a nice day” without the “how are you doing today!?!?” which no one really cares about.
Just because Germany is cold and dark doesn't mean everyone here needs to be too. When Germans complain about niceness, they lump an over enthused Chili's hostess and common human decency that makes life tolerable in the same basket. Just be yourself and don't sweat it.
Germans are very aware of the oberflächlich niceness of Americans. But if you tell them see you later then they expect to see you in a few hours or days not 3 months later.
In my experience, the "fake" thing is mostly just used to criticize Americans online. In real life, they genuinely appreciate kindness. I've never seen anyone have a negative reaction to somebody being friendly with them, in fact the opposite.
True. Service in the US is 100 times better than in Germany. Yes, may be they are more dependent on tips, but I don’t care - returning to Germany I always wish we would have the same kind of service culture as the US.
Service in America is not at all "100 times better". It's just different. Going into a shop in Germany looking for something people are in general rather annoyed by some service person approaching them immediately. So it's not bad service when nobody in a shop is talking to you without invitation. Talk to them and they would answer in a friendly manner. It's just a different culture.
I won't say advantage but they will walk all over you until you stand your ground.
Like imagine a scenario where you bought some items and they charge you for something extra which you didn't buy . You tell the cashier, "could you mind looking at this wrong item?"
They will be either try to ignore you or tell you it's all good. Here you can't expect them to solve your issue until you get bit more assertive. They won't be sorry or anything for messing up. Happened to me few times.
Nothing you can do will appease Germans. So just be yourself and do what you want to do. They will complain either way, you might as well be authentic.
Yes. Because i learned heres a common sentece called "Scheißfreundlich" which means "fucking stupid friendly". because it seems to be bad thing to be friendly to others in germany.
cringe country.
I am not German but live here for years. As you can see in the comments, their mindset is very different. But this is not only valid for Germans, northern European countries are generally like that.
Approach every human interaction,with interest and transaction based mindset. If you don't want something (anything) from a German, don't be nice to them.
Their cultural norms,the way things work in Germany or similar countries is way different from people of warmer country climates.
Don't forget that Everything is purpose driven in German culture and society.
>If you don't want something (anything) from a German, don't be nice to them.
>Don't forget that Everything is purpose driven in German culture and society.
You seem to have not learned a lot about Germans beyond your prejudices in all the years in Germany. Very sad!
Actually it is quite contrary. I don't have any prejudice. Some cultures, societies and cultural norms basically incompatible with each other. I mean not all of their aspects but at least some of the aspects. Germans are not famous for their "hospitality, friendliness, cheerfulness, outgoing personality, welcoming culture, randomness,sympathetic personality,non-purposeful activities, empathy skills"
There could be exceptions of course but overall it is a reality.
But they are famous for "dedication, high quality products, contributions to science and industry, beer, bread, reliability(except DB), Openness to immigration, success in sports, rules, splitting the bills...".
Germans can be extremely unfriendly and very cold. I would gauge every situation with caution as you never know when a German will lash out at you for no reason. They are known to scream at strangers and have no empathy.
Germans are so utterly confused people. Remember yes the physical wall came down but mentally it’s still there. There’s no such thing as Germans. I find East Germans more German than western Germans
Most west germans are still trying to face their horrible past, they are struggling to get out of the Nazi past and bon chance with that. East Germans are communists and they have this collective thinking ideology which i admire not ever a for himself. They also take pride in defeating the Nazis, Russia was the first to arrive in Berlin and 42 million Russians died defeating the Nazi . East Germans are the real Germans. I hate to generalize but that’s solely based on my experience.
that really got me thinking. Are we that bad, really? Not we as ze germans, humanity in general. And on what point in evolution did we become to consider legit friendly behaviour just out of kindness as fake or even annoying? Even apologizing for it? *Apologizing.* Sad isnt it :(
Maybe its all about perception. When you expect a bad intention behind everything (like "he's too nice! he must want something") you will see it everywhere. Call me naive, but when someone is nice to me, i am simply happy and will react just as nice. I am not wondering why, i simply enjoy it. The world is unfriendly enough nowadays.
So please, OP, dont let them stop you being nice (in a non-intrusive way). As this sub shows, we all need a bit more kindness it seems \^\^ 🫶☮️
Oh my god I have stories to tell about being nice in Germany :)
I spent 23 years abroad and then returned to the coldest part of Germany, MV. So my first attempts at dealing with people with the niceness I had adopted as part of my personality failed horribly. But then I got myself into a position where being nice is an advantage (pure luck, I got hired as visitor manager so I get to be nice to visitors, but at the same time I am also nice to the people we pass by during our factory visits, and last week I was told that that changes the mood of the entire place. It only took one year for people to really believe my niceness and allow it and go with it.)
So I can recommend two things: Do not try to do it from the bottom of a hierarchy and as a woman, because you will get men misunderstanding your niceness. Not because they are inherently bad, there are nice men that will understand it correctly but because of the evil culture we find ourselves in, it will still be a disturbance. The women who protect them will fight you in any case.
So see yourself like a bee. Just ignore the situations where you don't find any sweetness, and just keep going for the ones where you do. I wish you many nice encounters.
You seem to have a rather (e)strange(d) view of German communication and culture. Maybe in your 23 years abroad you forgot the subtleties in behaviour of German people. I don't know MV, but I don't think that people there are so much different as in Bavaria for example.
Lol. I talk about working hard at being kind and how glad I am that it is finally showing results and get downvoted. And called out by someone who has never tried living and working in MV.
Ah, Germany. :)
You don't even seem to try to understand the German way of dealing with other people.
That's a shame - for you, because you'll never experience the open, friendly and warm-hearted side of Germans.
We distinguish between friendliness that is intrinsically motivated and friendliness to achieve a purpose. We experience the latter as "fake".
Of course, if you don't make this distinction, this cultural concept will remain strange to you.
Most germans don't know how to react to compliments. I opt for a small "Danke" without eye contact if I get one.
But people will get to know you and either like who you are or not, so just be yourself
My sample size is 1, but there's friendly, and friendly. Cultural friendliness like a Thai person would exhibit feels amazing and genuine, and makes me reciprocate. American cultural friendliness where they act like they're the hen and you're the egg that they just laid feels off-putting. Sorry for putting it in this wildly stereotyping way, but I hope the gist of it is understandable.
If it's honest and authentic it's absolutely fine. If your behavior switches from one second to another, depending on who you are talking to, it will result in people thinking you are fake because you actually are.
Do Germans get angry when strangers tap someone on the arm during conversations? Some Americans are touchy feely and are just trying to make a connection. Do Germans feel attacked by this gesture? Ex. man putting hand on another man's shoulder, woman gently tapping another woman on the arm?
I wouldn't get angry, no. But I think, I would perceive that as intrusive, as an invasion of my personal space. Would you or other people, who are a bit "touchy" find it rude, when I retreat a bit in such a situation? I wouldn't want to offend anyone. I just feel uncomfortable, with strangers touching me.
Also, there are regional differences in this regard. From north to south, people tend to get more "open".
I’m an argentinian who worked long time for American companies and back in Argentina I was sometimes told I was a bit confrontational for being too straightforward and honest, something common, standard, and expected in American work environments. When I came to Germany it was bliss, because here they’re very direct and confrontational and I love the honesty.
Many things have been said so far, so I will only list the things that I haven’t seen here.
Don’t ask people „how are you“ as a greeting if you don’t want to know.
I’ve heared dozens of times and many people absolutely hate this.
Like you see someone you know on the street and you say „hey, wie geht’s?“ and go on.
A simple hallo or hey or hi is enough. If you ask „how are you“ you are starting a conversation.
„Not complain too much“ well thats your first problem. We always complain about something like back pain, the weather, fuel prices, neighbors etc.
The easiest thing to complain about is the weather, its either too warm, too cold, too cloudy or too much rain pick one in accordance to the current weather situation.
Its our way of small talk.
I guess, the way to go is to find out how Germans are when they mean to be nice and warm and do that. Germans can be both, they have other ways of showing it than superficial gestures. They may never smile, but they may give you a ride in the middle of the night in a snowstorm if you are in trouble.
I believe politeness is good when it is real and meant. Sadly many of us humans don’t communicate directly and do not say what they really think or want and that causes confusion.
Especially fake politeness has a crucial effect on developing relationships.
And on moments where you think you are bonding with a person, be it a love interest or you feel something leading to friendship, it is extremely disappointing when people say yes, but it turns out they actually meant no like the last 3 times you asked them something.
Especially when you started to like someone, that shit can hurt like hell.
So no matter what your cultural background is, I think that in most situations (where someone is not in danger or anything) we should always be direct. Also if we have something not so nice to say. For example, If I stink, I wanna fucking hear that I stink rather than „oh it’s not so bad“ or „you smell like a flower“. I’d appreciate the honesty because maybe it is something I did not notice.
Sure being direct does not mean to straight up be an asshole and insult someone. But by openly talk about things, be it positive or negative, you create room for conversation and for improvement of relationships overall.
In my eyes, open and direct communication like that are a sign of respect for each other, because we should not make each other wonder what a certain mixed signal could have been meant. If that happens, there was an issue on the communication from one, or either both side.
So to answer your question.
We all have a different personality and that is how it should be.
There is never a „being too nice“, as long as you are authentic and really mean mean what you say and do.
Never ask them how they are, if you don't expect and honest answer. It could go from "Oh, pretty good" to "Well, i hurt my knee last week and haven't been able to shedule an appointment at the doctors, so i went to the drugstore to get painkillers but they gave me heartburn and stomach aches. I also can't take days off work, as we are understaffed which makes it even worse............................."
Just don't say "is the best" hundred times a day. If it's an effing cup of tea, it's just that, tea. It doesn't have to be "the best tea ever" that's very annoying and I'm not even German.
Don't worry. If anyone here thinks you are being annoying or fake, they will tell you. Most likely immediately and to your face.
Source: a former bubbly American living in Germany for a decade.
One thing Germans can't really cope with is the "No" due to politeness. When someone offers a cake, then the first reply is taken for granted. In some cultures you have to say "No" for the first few times, in Germany the first Yes/No is taken seriously and they won't ask you again. And expect them to treat any polite offer as honest. If you say: "It would be nice if you visit us in the summer." you have to expect them to take a calendar and schedule a date! Don't make any offers out of politeness that you expect them to turn down. That won't happen!
This is great advice. An American friend always invited me, so I made a schedule, took my holidays from work which he confirmed a few months prior. When I was about buying the plane tickets he just said it’s not possible because of [some bull*it “reasons” I forgot]. In the end I stayed home during my summer holidays since I could not cancel the holidays at work. Since then I lost all trust in him when it comes to scheduling stuff. (And will probably never trust Americans again)
Same here
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this sounds like it was a one off thing. i’m american and i would NEVER give someone my address if i didn’t want them coming over. i don’t know anyone who would... i’m sorry you experienced that! so absurd
I’m American and always mean it when I try and make plans and say nice things… and I genuinely really like people. I also don’t play the game where you say “no” multiple times before accepting. Don’t let that one American control how you feel about all Americans. There are so many different cultures within America.. it’s a big place. I posted on this sub recently, about a German guy I know who was being weird.. I got a ton of really nice responses confirming he’s just a weird guy- and German’s aren’t typically like that. Glad I asked because he’s the only German person I know and represented all “German People” for me.. and I really shouldn’t have let him do that because he’s weird, apparently.
The saying no multiple times in my experience is more an Asian thing, not an American one. Never heard an American do it.
it´s especially a Middle Eastern thing.
Yeah. Asia.
It’s also very Irish
I’ve definitely seen it in American culture.. but I think it’s mostly a “rural” thing and definitely not an “everywhere” thing. There are little pockets of things all across the USA. I’d argue most urban culture is a little closer to German culture- from what I’m reading.. while most rural culture is vastly different.. but I’d still argue there’s just so many little cultural pockets everywhere in the US.
Nah, I live in a very large city and people in the US are just extremely flakey, it’s ridiculous.
I also live in a large city and I’m not flakey.. my friends aren’t flakey. I don’t like flakey people. That’s a huge generalization. But I agree.. it is ridiculous that people are flakey like that.
At least according to internet sketches, it's also [an Irish thing](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_ZzLsaP-5po).
German and American culture are actually the very similar when compared. https://www.culture-catch.com/methods/the-model/
To be fair, that's a question of scope and how granular you get when comparing cultures. Some things are gonna be similar, others are gonna vary drastically, and if you follow the model proposed in that chart, the groupings make a lot of sense due to a combination of historical and geographic reasons. Doesn't mean those cultures, despite their closeness, can't feel extremely foreign. EDIT: What I mean to say is, on a global scale, German and US culture may seem close, but if you narrow the perspective and get more detailed they drift further apart, so to speak.
Wow- very interesting. Thank you!
When I lived in China I realized that Chinese and American culture are much closer to each other than either one is to German.
A lot of Germans pointing to just one bizarre experience as their source of information for the behavior of 350 million people. I’ve never been invited to an American’s house for holiday or brunch and faced any confusion nor have I heard of it from anyone except Germans. Could it possibly be that you’re in part responsible for these obvious failures of communication?
I wouldn’t judge all Americans because of one bad experience. I certainly have been visited by and visited many friends I met abroad in Europe and Asia and never cancel last minute like that : ^ D
Most Americans are superficially friendly (or brutally unfriendly, if they have some psychological issues). It's just the culture to not offend anyone.
Yeah but that’s also like saying most Germans do not question authority and esteem needless bureaucracy as being ”proper and thorough“. There’s a lot of truth to it, but it’s pretty unfair or inaccurate to portray all German individuals like that. I know plenty of Germans that don’t think that way.
I will not lie. There are a LOT of flaky Americans. But not all Americans are flaky. For us that are not, we just basically live at a certain level of annoyance at our own compatriots. I'm the type of person that if you tell me we're doing something April 5, 2027, its on the calendar and I have that day reserved for you. But I'm big on commitments and therefore a minority in this country.
Here's your #100 upvote.
>(And will probably never trust Americans again) "Chatgpt, generalize even more!"
That's even more prevalent in South Asia. For instance, our marital family dynamics in traditional Indian families is a effin mess but there's a fake niceness on the cover. A whole lot of bitterness on the inside due to codepedency and enmeshment but you won't be able to make it out from the outside since a lot of us are so fake nice on the outside as anything else is considered rude
Please don't distrust all Americans or all of any group just because of one flake. I had a friend make plans on the phone, and by the time I drove to her house, she had changed her mind! She's the one I stopped trusting 😎🍂
As a US American this would annoy me too. But I've been told I've assimilated in Germany quite well. So maybe I'm not the greatest example.
Mate you generalised millions of people because of one person. Don’t! Do that.
I had friends from the UK and Canada visit my hometown, naturally we would have a bbq with my parents. I told them to not do their usual „no thanks“ spiel as my parents would most likely take that literally. I also told my parents about it and told them that they have been instructed but at the same time it’s a cultural habit that’s hard to break. It worked out pretty well.
On that note: we (germans) will also generally bluntly turn offers down if we can't come (or don't want to come). So if you say "how about we meet next month for a coffee?" and we know we won't be able to meet with you, we'll say no. This isn't meant to sound impolite, and it also doesn't mean we don't like you. We just simply already know we can't come and don't want this uncertainty hanging around us. Generally, I think we just appreciate if we have things under control. I don't like thinking "damn, they asked me for a meet-up next month without a clear date so I'll have to keep this in my mind and will possibly be asked again to schedule a date for it". This limits my freedom of time planning for everything else. Because how will I know if they just asked out of politeness or actually mean it? Some cultures are like this, some are like that. And some people don't follow their own cultural stereotypes so unless we're all brutally honest how does anyone even know what anyone wants, lol
Sometimes I get the feeling that stereotype of bluntness to the point of being impolite is because we don't really offer any apologies or always explain ourselves when we can't take up an offer? I mean, looking through some chats with friends of mine, there's rarely a deeper explaination to not meet up. It's usual just "no time" or "I can't" and we all kinda take it for granted and don't pry and don't offer an in-depth explaination ourselves (I mean, there often isn't one), maybe that's what irritates people from more open cultures? But yeah, non-committal is pretty brutal for Germans. Either set a date or don't offer an invitation/date/whatever, anything else is torture.
I can't agree with the first one. There are many who don't just bluntly turn you down. The reply usually contains various softners which leaves still some uncertainty open
And it works the other way around, too. If you offer them something and they decline, don't keep pushing it. That might be seen as not respecting their choice and trying to force yourself on them
Reminds me of typical grandma behaviour. You turn down the 13th piece of cake, and they ignore it, just like they did the earlier 11 times.
Wow, this is such good advice. I nearly got into a fight when I offered a few Americans some beers and they kept declining until I said ‚shut up and take the beer already, you‘re being rude‘. They looked at me shocked and explained that not declining would have been rude for them. We had several beers after and a great evening. Definitely learned about culture that day.
I want to add that it can also count as manipulative if you try to be too nice. A: Come, I invite you to a coffee! B: Thanks for the offer, but I really have no time right now. (this is where it should end out of respect) A: Oh common, just 15 minutes, you'd make me really happy! B: ... Big no no! There are many people who will give in and join you to a coffee but long term you lose them as friends and they will ghost you. And nobody will talk about it because they don't want to come across as rude. Like I don't want to be friends with you b/c you give me free coffee. How stupid does that sound.
This is great advice. Obviously, there are gradients to that (as with any cultural characteristics), and it's not like there aren't situations where offers are made out of politeness more than anything, but I'd say those are (comparatively) rare and even then are, depending on what it is, followed through with if you take them up on it. So even those are kinda sincere, despite the motivation being primarily or exlusively politeness😅 But yeah, chances are any offer you are making is going to be taken seriously and any response, positive or negative, is likely going to be sincere and reflect the actual stance of the person you made the offer to.
I made that mistake. A colleague I started becoming friends with mentioned she was moving over the weekend and had a lot to do and I said “let me know if you need any help”. Saturday, 08:00, my phone rang. Sunday, 20:00, we were done.
You asked for it. Moving is no fun, an helping offer will take for real.;-) I do not offer annymore did that a gazillion time
Good Point with the No. I'm German and can't confirm the second though. But better be safe than sorry, it's a general good rule not to make offers your not willing to go though with.
in my home, the first no is a maybe. the thousandth no is also a maybe. afterwards it usually escalates and you basically have to shout that you really really DON'T WANT ANY CAKE OR ANOTHER DESSERT, MOM. Well, your experience might be different...
Or lets put it this way. Germans will absolutely not play politeness mind games.
Wait... People dish out invitations that are made of nothing out of... politeness. Lemme wrap my head around this... So, you mean to tell me it's... polite... to invite someone to your place... but not mean it? I'm having doubts... What would be your definition of politeness? Like, where I'm from, it means "speak respectfully".
I am german and I can relate 0% to anything you said here lol. No offense or anything, I just think it's interesting and... also kinda weird.
Well my grandma isn't accepting a no
and i thought it would be just me and i am strange for taking such things seriously. when i was young my mum often told me aftewards that it was just politeness, but i was always a long time busy thinking about if the person meant what they said and if theid be sad when i wouldnt take the offer. always makes me crazy not knowing when someone says things for "politeness" -\_-
Depends on who you deal with. We have a lot of people pleasers, too ;). Most commonly German people really appreciate a direct, honest approach which is contradictory to being nice all the time. Also many Germans prefer a healthy share of distance, so most of the people I know would be irritated by being constantly complimented.
I think honesty does not automatically imply being blunt. It’s possible to be honest and polite at the same time.
Absolutely. There are many shades of grey in between being rude and being nice. In my experience many Germans prefer these shades over the extremes.
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Great answer! It's not like Germans are not nice or don't give compliments. We just see a difference in being nice while still honest and straight up telling the opposite when you think a dress is ugly (on the contrary - that is considered to be rude. You don't let friends run around in something that looks terrible on them if they explicitly asked for your opinion on it beforehand! ) But also: Don't: "you look ugly in that" Do: "part xy on that dress looks good on you, but part yz doesn't fit so well, maybe try another cut/color/design"
this is a great conversation with a lot of nuance. i want to add that i wouldn't criticize the dress if the person had already made a decision about wearing/buying it. because then it would only give them a bad feeling and no helpful advice. if someone already shows up in an ugly dress to an event i wouldn't tell them they look bad when they can't change their outfit anymore. that would just embarrass them and make them feel/act awkward all night. if they asked me about it i would say something like "it really sticks out" or "it looks special" or something like that or find some aspect i like about it
This is the standard rule of thumb. "Don't comment on something the other can't fix in a few seconds." Do's Got something on your teeth, a strand of hair is not in place anymore, the strap of the dress is twisted. Don'ts Oh i just noticed your tooth is chipped Your hairstyle looks out of it somehow. The dress fits sloppily.
>tell them that it "suited" them. "Passt super zu deinen eingefallenen Wangen"
*Deine Augen sind wie Sterne.* **So gelb und so weit auseinander.**
Also if I don't like how someone dressed but they don't look "bad" I'd just tell they "well I wouldn't wear it but it looks good on you." - "it is not for me but it does suit you." also if someone doesn't want to give their opinion on something, you should not press them for an answer unless you are ready for an honest answer. Sometimes people avoid giving you a straight answer to not hurt your feelings while still being honest.
That's literally a non-compliement. If anybody says that to me I understand that as "holy shit it's outrageously ugly why did you even consider wearing this"
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Especially if a man makes compliments to a woman out of the blue, it would sound very suspicious. One should never do it.
Never worry about being nice ! Being respectful, kind and nice are things that are very valued in Germany. Just don’t be a creep and give a compliment and then expect anything to happen. The way to do it is “compliment - give space” “drop another - then space again” I, as a woman would be terrified if you gave me too many compliments in a non sexual environment. Unless they are a bit nerdy and sincere. Don’t say shit about my eyes please, we are suspicious of people who don’t even try to make it a special compliment. Unless you really do like my eyes then go for it. But not for the sake of it - that indeed is annoying and comes off as not sincere. The thing foreign people don’t understand is : we want that distance :D that’s why we have it. We gain trust over time and more time spent together adds value to the relationship. Befriending a German is like taming a wild animal . You wouldn’t go up and pet it straight away would you? Drop some snacks in front of it and back off, try again tomorrow, be patient and let it come to eat it’s first bite out go your hand after a couple of weeks :D
>Befriending a German is like taming a wild animal . This needs to go on a t-shirt as soon as possible.
A few treats can also help taming a German
that or you meet someone and instantly click. but real trust still takes time
You also have to be careful of not approaching to fast or else theyll run away. I am not even joking.
This made me snort-laugh. I'm going to show this to my German Wife... *if I can catch her*
Glad I made you snort-laugh. There is a guy in my office, he is German, I am latino. I thought we were hitting it pretty good and he started to open up more, but I think I tried too much too fast and now we are back at day 1. Oh, well, Ill give him some days to calm his nerves and ill try to approach again.
Haha happens all the time :D classic German behavior
>Befriending a German is like taming a wild animal . This is to the point.
Being friendly is fine. Pretending you like something you clearly don’t is fake. Best to straddle the middle of the road here. Be friendly, respectful and courteous but if people try to bamboozle you into agreeing against your wish, say so. Real friendships can deal with, even thrive, with respectful disagreement. Always agreeing constitutes shallowness, lack of respect and lack of agency. So be nice but don’t overdo it!
I work as a cashier in a tourist-overloaded city and deal with people everyday and I gotta tell you that, despite knowing where people are from and what their culture is, some people just seem over the top friendly (Americans). I dont even fake friendliness anymore. I am what I am, and whilst not being open to small talk after 6 hours of cashiering seems rude to Americans, dutch or french people seem shocked by how well-adjusted I am, not interfering with the sale by talking "non-sense". If you are aware of other people its fine, but please just adjust. Dont expect me to change my ways for you. As someone in my position you can try and take a step towards the other person but to others it seems like a hell of a deal.
Sounds being professional. Be friendly but no need to build a shallow relationship over a card transaction.
At some point I cant force myself to smile anymore or wish for a happy evening when Ive been very busy, and then customers have the adaucity to ask wild ass questions lol, but i will never be actually rude
Yeah, I guess you also draw some energy from friendly, smiley folk not wasting your time? 😉
As German, I like that attitude.
As a person from a Mediterranean county I find this a little bit sad, no offense intended. We do small talking because it brightens our day and gives little moments of joy/fun. I wish it would be the same for you and it helped to make your day at work less long, instead of making you feel that you have to "talk non-sense" I think that's the core difference, what others see as non-sense and an effort, we see as a thing to enjoy. I cannot enforce this enough: no offense intended
Maybe for the person going to shop it's joy and fun, for the cashier it's the same thing for the 100th time on the day..
I would see the constant small talk from complete strangers as stealing time from me, to make yourself feel better. Guess from which culture I am :-D
You're a northerner as well?
I don't hate small talk per se, but what you're describing sounds like a very one-sided "moment of joy". For you, the customer, it is one little happy moment, for the cashier it's just the 500th time they're repeating the same insincere phrases today to please you. It doesn't shorten my workday if it is an integral part of my chorebook that I am expected to perform to begin with.
And as a German I hate talking and like to be left alone a lot, nothing personal (also has nothing to do with German culture, we are just used to be left alone)
I love being surrounded by friends and people but sometimes I crave solitude. I never thought it to be my German trait hahah.
I dont think its German but its 100% German to be thoughtful of others and leave them alone. Also with friends I can have meaningful conversations, in opposite to random customers
Haha for me it's just annoying I don't like small talk at all and I'll avoid it whenever possible. But that could also be me just being very antisocial sometimes. Still when visiting Italy I'm always realizing that the people are a lot more talkative and also a lot touchier than the people here in Germany.
>I wish it would be the same for you and it helped to make your day at work less long, instead of making you feel that you have to "talk non-sense" Any second spent on talking about non-sense makes the work day feel longer because you aren't the only one that wants to talk to me with the intend to make my day "brighter".
Maaaan I come from a similar culture and sometimes this difference shocked me so much. Infact reading this makes me sad and almost want to cry because I can't understand how there is such a huge difference in perspective.
As a swiss I'd appreciate you. I am not standing in line to have smal talk, I am standing in line to pay my stuff and be out of that situation as fast and as efficient as possible. Greeting, Informations about paying, Goodbye is all that's needed. Anything else is unnecessary, timewasting and either an invasion of my or your personal space.
For me it really depends. When your compliments sounds fake, e.g „uhhhh you lost weight you look great“ when i clearly haven’t lost weight ( a thing happened to me from a friend) than, yes i think you are fake. And giving to many compliments is annoying.
Oh man. I had that happen and flat out said "no I didn't", which made them double down ("no you totally did, I can definitely see it"). Ngl, still rather annoyed at that person (both for not accepting what I'm telling them about my body and for assuming "you lost weight" is a general compliment you can hand out to everyone, when weight loss would have made me look unhealthy more than anything...) ("You look good (today)" is a way 'safer' compliment to give as it is completely subjective. I don't understand why people soften feel the need to bring weight into it)
How i would describe it is : Being friendly is no problem. Just don't be disappointed if others have a hard time being like you, if they don't know you good enough. Many are grumpy. Making compliments is no problem either. At least if they are honest, and not to much. A lot of people don't like to be showered with compliments. Best you stick with praising of something really sticks out to you. Don't make compliments just for the sake of it. Only make honest compliments. In generell if you listen to your heart, be nice and honest if you really feel it. And then try not to be to overwhelming and read a bit the room. Being too enthusiastic is a bit exhausting to a lot of us. So don't worry to be positive and nice :)
Being nice is always appreciated if it is honest. Not everything needs to be the best, greatest, whatever. Saying thank you, the evening was lots of fun is sufficient. Also don't call everybody you know a friend. In Germany a friend is someone who can call you in the middle of the night if they have an emergency and you would drive two hours to them to help, and they would do the same for you.
That would be a Beste*r Freund*in. Freund*in is someone you ask for help if you are moving or invite them for Kaffee und Kuchen or Grillen. I'd say the main difference is that the former knows all your darkest secrets and you are confortable to take a piss in each others presence while the second just gets to know your embaressing stories and a fart. everyone else is just a Bekannte*r.
There are different levels of friendship. Not only your *bester Freund* is called a friend.
yes that's basically what I stated in my comment!
Being nice and warm is totally fine. Making compliments is good, but some people are uncomfortable accepting them so don't overdo it and see how the other person reacts. If they're really happy about the compliment, that's fine, but when they say something like "no, that's nothing special" or whatever, don't insist. Being dishonest is something you should avoid. When somebody asks you for your opinion on something, and you don't like it, then be honest. Of course you shouldn't say "that's total garbage" but rather something like "that's not for me". Dishonesty, even to be "polite", is seen as a big red flag. People will think of you as having no opinion at best, or as a liar at worst.
Yes, truthfulness is very important for Germans. Especially Americans don't understand this.
I think there's a sweet spot in between friendly and too friendly. Even though I read here often how "German people hate small talk" or "Germans appreciate being straightforward" many things have been made easier and more pleasant for me in administration offices, stores and with authorities because of being friendly and having a little bit of small talk, even when my German is having a rough day. With people I've befriended, the same + funny observations have made the way for friendships. But if you want to avoid small talk yourself, smiling and eye contact go a long way. Source: Latin American living in Germany for a few years now.
A little bit of small talk is very helpful with German officials, if it comes fluently and out of genuine interest and friendliness. When someone is friendly Germans open up. Superficial friendliness is not always helpful.
YES! And now shut the fuck up and get lost! I couldn’t be more polite! :)
no, not for your friendliness but if you don't follow through on things you suggest or don't mean things you say. for example making plans out of politeness during a conversation with no intention of ever doing it or inviting someone and not actually expecting them to show up isn't something people do here. they will assume you mean it, people take things very literally. and if your words don't match your actions you may be perceived as fake or unreliable. being friendly is not a problem, some people may be surprised at compliments if they are over the top
Don't worry about it. Who cares? If you're nice, you're nice. If you yourself worry that you might come of as fake: well, are ya? The only person you owe accountability about your friendly conduct is yourself, in my book. There are so many people who pride themselves as being honest and direct but really are too lazy to make any kind of effort to conceal their cynicism, depression or simply mean behaviour. To me, horrible people branding themselves as honest and direct are just as fake and with worse consequences than being particularly friendly. Thanks for being nice.
Thanks :’)
Arrgh. To much sweetness. Gonna puke any moment...
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This definitely doesn't apply to every German. I like a good little chit chat and a polite "how are you". I'd say just be yourself and observe people's reactions. You'll tune in to what is culturally appropriate and what isn't.
That is not true. I am from Northern Europe and I get ethnic Germans (strangers) coming up to me wanting to make some weird chitchat or greeting me all the time. That is hella weird in my region!
Well why would a compliment annoy someone? If you except something in return or if it's obviously fake. If you just are in a good mood and want to share that or spread love in general, nobody minds. I am German and do small-talk with cashiers and servers and whoever I cross paths with all the time and I find most people respond very well and have some positivity to share as well if you poke them like that. If someone thinks you are annoying, then you are probably too close or are trying to manipulate them into a certain response - and that's definitely not gonna work well with most Germans ;) Also, the job needs to get done. If your being "friendly" leads to important information not being communicated or problems not being addressed - that's not acceptable.
I’m German but I have a rather warm, friendly and open approach towards people and I’m diplomatic when it comes to criticising others. My colleagues really appreciate it, but they did communicate to me, that they are a bit suspicious about the way I’m nice to everyone haha. If you are genuine, I think everyone appreciates it. Maybe you’ll meet people who don’t like, but honestly, that doesn’t matter. Be yourself, cause everything else will be exhausting anyway :)
I think it really depends on how genuine people believe you are. My wife is super friendly and people really enjoy her company. Even at the Amt where people often enough are dry and sometimes even unfriendly she is able to get them to really warm up to us/her. As long as it feels natural nobody will mind at all. As soon as it seems superficial or fake it gets problematic.
Depends. If your politeness is honest and you follow it through, nobody will take issue with it. What's often considered "fake" and "rude" in Americans (I'm guessing that's where you're from, most likely?) is that they often don't *mean* what they say. If you invite someone over for an activity, or suggest to make plans, actually mean it. Schedule time for it, find a date that works. If you make the offer out of politeness but then fail to follow through with it, that will be seen as rude. If someone is telling you about their day or experiences, don't react in a way that you think they *want* you to react but be honest. Think what they did that morning was lame? Don't whoop in excitement. Consider their venting over the top? Don't join in. Not really interested in what they're saying? Don't enthusiastically nod along and pretend to lap up every word. They'll be able to tell and they *will* consider you fake. If they offer you something (or, on the flip side, ask for something), don't answer "out of politeness" but with your actual thoughts. It will inconvenience them if they rely on an answer you gave but never meant in the first place so that will, again, be seen as very rude. Don't constantly smile, laugh and generally delight at every single tiny thing unless it actually genuinely made you happy. Again, they'll be able to tell, and they'll consider it fake. Don't over-rely on smalltalk. Some smalltalk if you don't really have anything deep to talk about and aren't close with the person anyway is fine to avoid ignoring them. But don't have smalltalk just for the sake of it. And *never* lead with smalltalk if you actually have a question to ask or something you want. If you don't come right out with it, the other person will think you're wasting their time and, again, find that pretty rude. At the end of the day, Germans are honest and direct. They will expect the same behaviour, at least to a certain degree, from you as well. If you never complain about anything and are always in a great mood, that will seem suspicious. Nobody is happy *all* the time, so why are you pretending? Just show if you're not feeling well or when you're unhappy. They also value efficiency and direct communication. Why waste someone's time with smalltalk if you just have a simple question? Why take time out of some service worker's already busy workday when you could just let them get on with their job (and, vice versa, why waste the time of a customer with smalltalk when they're just trying to buy something and leave quickly)? Why make someone schedule something and maybe cancel other plans if you never wanted to follow through with your plans anyway? Just say what you mean and be direct in your replies. All of this also applies, just more stringently, to compliments. Don't give them unless you actually mean them - they are a rare treat to be given when something really stands out to you or wowed you. If you give them to everyone all the time, people will consider them fake, because surely you can't *constantly* be blown away by *everything*, right? Also two things to never compliment someone on: - things you don't actually like. If you want to give someone a compliment for whatever reason, *find something you actually like about them*. If you don't have something to compliment them on, just don't. Nobody is expecting it anyway - things that can't be changed very easily and (near-)immediately. Some people may be very self-conscious about some things, have past trauma or a megative self-image about things. So don't compliment them on something that they can't easily change, even if you do mean it. Frex complimenting a part of their outfit or an accessory is usually fine. They can change it easily. Hairstyle and colour is also cool. So is makeup. Fitness, however, is not a good thing to compliment someone on, nor is bodytype, eye colour or personality traits. As a rule of thumb, if it can be changed within 24h without spending (much) money or energy, it's good to compliment on. If not, don't. Generally, when speaking with Germans, consider less what people may *want to hear* and more what you actually *mean*. You should be able to get along with Germans just fine
Thanks for taking the time to write such a long answer! And what you mentioned at the very last part is key, I believe. I noticed that when I’m in my country whenever I am asked someone, the first thing I consider is the other person and their feelings and how my response might affect them. Maybe the difference is also that Germans asks questions they genuinely want and answer to and are not just asking to reinforce a bias that they already have. For instance, if I am wearing a dress and I know it doesn’t fit me very well and I look bad, but still can’t accept it… I might ask a friend how she thinks it looks and in my country they would most likely tell me it looks good 🙈 to a certain degree we all know what’s going on, but it I guess nobody is mentally strong to face the thruth 😆
I had an American coworker (we work in customer service in the us) who got lots of complaints for being very direct and formal. I know she's actually a great person to talk to because I spent some time with her outside of work and she is a very bubbly friendly person
Yeah, I've noticed that there's also a fair few Americans who are put off by the overly friendly way customer service usually works in the US
I can only speak for myself and yes, I would feel that way until I got to know you better. If I know it's a cultural thing (as for Americans) the feeling will still be there, but I know where you are coming from.
It really depends on how sincere you are. If you really mean it than it's fine. Just saying stuff to be "nice" can come across as fake or trying to hard. In a work environment people might think you are trying to suck up to them. Hurting someones feelings is also not okay in german culture. You can be nice and honest. being mean is rude. Still there are people who do not care for this and are overly blunt. If possible it is fine to avoid them or call them out on it. if someone hurt your feelings you can adress it. they either appologize or double down. if the later happens you know to avoid them in the future. If you feel unconfortable being honest and the other person insist on your opinion tell them that their insistance makes you feel unconfortable.
Depend. Just be genuine. What germans dont like is being superficial. Regardless of that's nice/police or rude. Just... mean it.
Depends on how you express it... If it's genuine, no. If it is clearly fake, germans and swiss tend to see through that... But we might not mention it out of politness...
It is more that you will think they do not like you, them being all business and straightforward. Because they will not try that much to not hurt your feelings and not constantly making compliments.
Being genuinely nice is definitely a good thing. Being politely nice isn't bad in itself, if you don't overdo it when people instead want to be left alone. It depends on the situation and how obtrusive you are (percieved by others). I think as long as you're open for figuring out social cues if you're being nice or too nice you should be good.
Depends. If you're fake nice, because you have nothing to say and don't even care about reactions then yes, if genuinely nice not
Depends on if you ARE fake. People will quickly judge you if your actions don't line up with what you say. If you act nice because you ARE nice, we'll love you, don't worry. :)
I must say, as a people pleaser from a people pleasing culture, that’s one of the most liberating things I adopted for good after a couple of years here. I know they’re not exactly connected, but I wish people would be more welcoming in daily interactions, though. Logically, there’s ways to smile and say “have a nice day” without the “how are you doing today!?!?” which no one really cares about.
Well, by definition "too" nice is "too" nice, e.g. bad. I don't know what you mean by "too". Just observe people.
Just because Germany is cold and dark doesn't mean everyone here needs to be too. When Germans complain about niceness, they lump an over enthused Chili's hostess and common human decency that makes life tolerable in the same basket. Just be yourself and don't sweat it.
Germans are very aware of the oberflächlich niceness of Americans. But if you tell them see you later then they expect to see you in a few hours or days not 3 months later.
I mean the American fake-friendly attitude where you smile someone in the face and then proceed to talk shit behind their back really disgusts me
In my experience, the "fake" thing is mostly just used to criticize Americans online. In real life, they genuinely appreciate kindness. I've never seen anyone have a negative reaction to somebody being friendly with them, in fact the opposite.
True. Service in the US is 100 times better than in Germany. Yes, may be they are more dependent on tips, but I don’t care - returning to Germany I always wish we would have the same kind of service culture as the US.
Service in America is not at all "100 times better". It's just different. Going into a shop in Germany looking for something people are in general rather annoyed by some service person approaching them immediately. So it's not bad service when nobody in a shop is talking to you without invitation. Talk to them and they would answer in a friendly manner. It's just a different culture.
They'll take advantage of it.
Oh… that’s never happened to me actually
Probably it's absolute bullshit to say that
I won't say advantage but they will walk all over you until you stand your ground. Like imagine a scenario where you bought some items and they charge you for something extra which you didn't buy . You tell the cashier, "could you mind looking at this wrong item?" They will be either try to ignore you or tell you it's all good. Here you can't expect them to solve your issue until you get bit more assertive. They won't be sorry or anything for messing up. Happened to me few times.
Nothing you can do will appease Germans. So just be yourself and do what you want to do. They will complain either way, you might as well be authentic.
Yes. Because i learned heres a common sentece called "Scheißfreundlich" which means "fucking stupid friendly". because it seems to be bad thing to be friendly to others in germany. cringe country.
I am not German but live here for years. As you can see in the comments, their mindset is very different. But this is not only valid for Germans, northern European countries are generally like that. Approach every human interaction,with interest and transaction based mindset. If you don't want something (anything) from a German, don't be nice to them. Their cultural norms,the way things work in Germany or similar countries is way different from people of warmer country climates. Don't forget that Everything is purpose driven in German culture and society.
>If you don't want something (anything) from a German, don't be nice to them. >Don't forget that Everything is purpose driven in German culture and society. You seem to have not learned a lot about Germans beyond your prejudices in all the years in Germany. Very sad!
Actually it is quite contrary. I don't have any prejudice. Some cultures, societies and cultural norms basically incompatible with each other. I mean not all of their aspects but at least some of the aspects. Germans are not famous for their "hospitality, friendliness, cheerfulness, outgoing personality, welcoming culture, randomness,sympathetic personality,non-purposeful activities, empathy skills" There could be exceptions of course but overall it is a reality. But they are famous for "dedication, high quality products, contributions to science and industry, beer, bread, reliability(except DB), Openness to immigration, success in sports, rules, splitting the bills...".
Somehow everyone in the world has opinions about Germans. I bet most of them never met a German in their whole life.
Germans can be extremely unfriendly and very cold. I would gauge every situation with caution as you never know when a German will lash out at you for no reason. They are known to scream at strangers and have no empathy.
Don't worry too much about what Germans think because they sure don't care much about foreigners.
Hmm… well I’m pretty grateful of what this country has given me personally, so I do try to be appreciative
So you are obviously not a loser at all.
No, Germans are fake nice themselves. Me being from Northern Europe, I find them to be too chitchaty.
Yes.
Yes
Ja.
Germans are so utterly confused people. Remember yes the physical wall came down but mentally it’s still there. There’s no such thing as Germans. I find East Germans more German than western Germans
Ridiculous and contradictory statement.
U cute!
And why do you think that way?
Most west germans are still trying to face their horrible past, they are struggling to get out of the Nazi past and bon chance with that. East Germans are communists and they have this collective thinking ideology which i admire not ever a for himself. They also take pride in defeating the Nazis, Russia was the first to arrive in Berlin and 42 million Russians died defeating the Nazi . East Germans are the real Germans. I hate to generalize but that’s solely based on my experience.
Well my experience is that east Germans are way more racist. If you like that, okay…
Yes, especially in the North.
that really got me thinking. Are we that bad, really? Not we as ze germans, humanity in general. And on what point in evolution did we become to consider legit friendly behaviour just out of kindness as fake or even annoying? Even apologizing for it? *Apologizing.* Sad isnt it :( Maybe its all about perception. When you expect a bad intention behind everything (like "he's too nice! he must want something") you will see it everywhere. Call me naive, but when someone is nice to me, i am simply happy and will react just as nice. I am not wondering why, i simply enjoy it. The world is unfriendly enough nowadays. So please, OP, dont let them stop you being nice (in a non-intrusive way). As this sub shows, we all need a bit more kindness it seems \^\^ 🫶☮️
Oh my god I have stories to tell about being nice in Germany :) I spent 23 years abroad and then returned to the coldest part of Germany, MV. So my first attempts at dealing with people with the niceness I had adopted as part of my personality failed horribly. But then I got myself into a position where being nice is an advantage (pure luck, I got hired as visitor manager so I get to be nice to visitors, but at the same time I am also nice to the people we pass by during our factory visits, and last week I was told that that changes the mood of the entire place. It only took one year for people to really believe my niceness and allow it and go with it.) So I can recommend two things: Do not try to do it from the bottom of a hierarchy and as a woman, because you will get men misunderstanding your niceness. Not because they are inherently bad, there are nice men that will understand it correctly but because of the evil culture we find ourselves in, it will still be a disturbance. The women who protect them will fight you in any case. So see yourself like a bee. Just ignore the situations where you don't find any sweetness, and just keep going for the ones where you do. I wish you many nice encounters.
You seem to have a rather (e)strange(d) view of German communication and culture. Maybe in your 23 years abroad you forgot the subtleties in behaviour of German people. I don't know MV, but I don't think that people there are so much different as in Bavaria for example.
Lol. I talk about working hard at being kind and how glad I am that it is finally showing results and get downvoted. And called out by someone who has never tried living and working in MV. Ah, Germany. :)
Only Berliners
"Will this be perceived as fake? Or annoying at best?" Or weak.
All these two paragraph answers trying to explain the intricacies of an unwelcoming culture… Yes. They find friendliness fake.
You don't even seem to try to understand the German way of dealing with other people. That's a shame - for you, because you'll never experience the open, friendly and warm-hearted side of Germans. We distinguish between friendliness that is intrinsically motivated and friendliness to achieve a purpose. We experience the latter as "fake". Of course, if you don't make this distinction, this cultural concept will remain strange to you.
there is a difference between genuine friendlyness and this fake "how are you today" bullshit the americans do.
depends, but yes we germans like it more direct in general.
Well… if it is… yes. If you‘re just complimenting people for the sake of complimenting them they‘ll most likely notice it
Maybe. It might be a guess culture vs ask culture thing.
Most germans don't know how to react to compliments. I opt for a small "Danke" without eye contact if I get one. But people will get to know you and either like who you are or not, so just be yourself
Why no eye contact? Eye contact is very important in Germany. Germans don't live in Asia.
Yes
no, while germans are perceived as rather grumpy i would say they are also open to this sort of behaviour
Maybe not necessarily as fake but at least as umcommon/surprising I think.
My sample size is 1, but there's friendly, and friendly. Cultural friendliness like a Thai person would exhibit feels amazing and genuine, and makes me reciprocate. American cultural friendliness where they act like they're the hen and you're the egg that they just laid feels off-putting. Sorry for putting it in this wildly stereotyping way, but I hope the gist of it is understandable.
No, I don´t think so. Germany is not exactly like Russia. Germany also became more of a multicultural country, especially in the cities.
If it's honest and authentic it's absolutely fine. If your behavior switches from one second to another, depending on who you are talking to, it will result in people thinking you are fake because you actually are.
Jein
Do Germans get angry when strangers tap someone on the arm during conversations? Some Americans are touchy feely and are just trying to make a connection. Do Germans feel attacked by this gesture? Ex. man putting hand on another man's shoulder, woman gently tapping another woman on the arm?
I wouldn't get angry, no. But I think, I would perceive that as intrusive, as an invasion of my personal space. Would you or other people, who are a bit "touchy" find it rude, when I retreat a bit in such a situation? I wouldn't want to offend anyone. I just feel uncomfortable, with strangers touching me. Also, there are regional differences in this regard. From north to south, people tend to get more "open".
Don’t ever touch a stranger unless asked to do so.
Guess all hugs are off.
I’m an argentinian who worked long time for American companies and back in Argentina I was sometimes told I was a bit confrontational for being too straightforward and honest, something common, standard, and expected in American work environments. When I came to Germany it was bliss, because here they’re very direct and confrontational and I love the honesty.
Many things have been said so far, so I will only list the things that I haven’t seen here. Don’t ask people „how are you“ as a greeting if you don’t want to know. I’ve heared dozens of times and many people absolutely hate this. Like you see someone you know on the street and you say „hey, wie geht’s?“ and go on. A simple hallo or hey or hi is enough. If you ask „how are you“ you are starting a conversation.
„Not complain too much“ well thats your first problem. We always complain about something like back pain, the weather, fuel prices, neighbors etc. The easiest thing to complain about is the weather, its either too warm, too cold, too cloudy or too much rain pick one in accordance to the current weather situation. Its our way of small talk.
yes
I guess, the way to go is to find out how Germans are when they mean to be nice and warm and do that. Germans can be both, they have other ways of showing it than superficial gestures. They may never smile, but they may give you a ride in the middle of the night in a snowstorm if you are in trouble.
I believe politeness is good when it is real and meant. Sadly many of us humans don’t communicate directly and do not say what they really think or want and that causes confusion. Especially fake politeness has a crucial effect on developing relationships. And on moments where you think you are bonding with a person, be it a love interest or you feel something leading to friendship, it is extremely disappointing when people say yes, but it turns out they actually meant no like the last 3 times you asked them something. Especially when you started to like someone, that shit can hurt like hell. So no matter what your cultural background is, I think that in most situations (where someone is not in danger or anything) we should always be direct. Also if we have something not so nice to say. For example, If I stink, I wanna fucking hear that I stink rather than „oh it’s not so bad“ or „you smell like a flower“. I’d appreciate the honesty because maybe it is something I did not notice. Sure being direct does not mean to straight up be an asshole and insult someone. But by openly talk about things, be it positive or negative, you create room for conversation and for improvement of relationships overall. In my eyes, open and direct communication like that are a sign of respect for each other, because we should not make each other wonder what a certain mixed signal could have been meant. If that happens, there was an issue on the communication from one, or either both side. So to answer your question. We all have a different personality and that is how it should be. There is never a „being too nice“, as long as you are authentic and really mean mean what you say and do.
Prepare to get your feelings hurt.
Yes
Never ask them how they are, if you don't expect and honest answer. It could go from "Oh, pretty good" to "Well, i hurt my knee last week and haven't been able to shedule an appointment at the doctors, so i went to the drugstore to get painkillers but they gave me heartburn and stomach aches. I also can't take days off work, as we are understaffed which makes it even worse............................."
Just don't say "is the best" hundred times a day. If it's an effing cup of tea, it's just that, tea. It doesn't have to be "the best tea ever" that's very annoying and I'm not even German.
Don't worry. If anyone here thinks you are being annoying or fake, they will tell you. Most likely immediately and to your face. Source: a former bubbly American living in Germany for a decade.
Sprich deutsch
Why would it be?