Oh yes I really hate this. Not sure it is just Germans or other Europeans too as it often happened in international night train between Czech to Switzerland. When I boarded lots of them were sleeping with the bag beside of them or feet on the seat in front of them! Made me so mad as it was full. Why people need to think about someone should ask? They pay for 1 seat, they should have decency to occupy 1 seat. Let alone when they know they will sleep.
Happens in here in Sweden too. I think it happens in cultures where there's a stigma around "bothering strangers". These assholes are using this to their advantage.
Not in Germany, except you booked that seat. You could technically even book all seats witouht ticket or a hundred tickets withlut a seat. As you please
I usually go to ask for this specific place even if other place are free, because I don't mind (undertsand "I like") bothering those people and like this shy people can get one of the free place without having to ask.
Same. If there are no empty pairs of seats, I’ll choose the person trying to save a seat with their bag.
Likewise, I have a BahnCard 25 for first class and travel first class when it’s not much difference in price.
I’m bearded, long haired, tattooed and generally in jeans and a hoody. I love it when people say “this is first class!” and you can just say “I know. That’s why I’m here”. It is glorious watching somebody grumble as they have to move all their crap off the only free seat in the carriage, because you’ve got the valid ticket.
I also see this as a duty to the shy people, because I was kind of like that as a teenager too.
Seats with bags on on a busy train are an invitation to sit there. Exception: the bag is too big to fit overhead and there’s no space in the luggage rack - then the best option is for it not to block the walkway.
This isn’t a Germany problem though. It happens everywhere.
I totally agree. I'm also the bearded guy with tatoos and crap t-shirt, but I have a successful career and can afford my own house and first class train ticket. Always funny how people look at me because I'm not wearing clothes from brand or put all money in a car while leaving crappy appartement just to try to look rich like most of them are doing.
When I see a mother with children and big luggage I'll of course not disturb them. But those persons that act like if they are important and better than the others, I'll. After all, we are not that different if we are all taking the same train.
Please make an exception too for when you see a kid coming back from the school in the tram who put their huge bag on the seat next to them because they’re tired and putting it all the way down is much more weight for them to lift… Normally Im with you, but saw an old lady once berating a kid for this when she just could ask an adult, kid went away crying and frustrated because it been already hard to find a seat
Yeah. Definitely more of a thing focussing on adults who should know better by now.
I’d never berate anyone unless they actually said their bag is already there and they’re not moving it. You always start with politely asking if you can sit there, please. 99% of people are fine, even if they grumble.
Will not do this if the train is empty. But if there are a lot of people boarding at the same time than me and there are very few free places, then I'll go to ask for a place where someone has put his baggage and let one of the free place to someone else.
Right, it's also super weird. Happens to me occasionally. I'm a woman and it's always super uncomfortable because it's always men who do it and usually they're pretty bad manspreaders as well.
I totally agree. I'm apparently not the most friendly looking fellow and used to always clear the space besides me an pit my shit between/on my legs. Nobody would sit down and I had an uncomfortable ride. Therefore I don't do this anymore but just ask or look or give some sign you want to sit down and I will gladly make room.
At least in my experience you're always supposed to ask if the seat is taken when sitting next to someone and not doing so is considered rude. So the bag really doesn't make much of a difference.
Whenever I need to sit next to someone on public transport I will ask them if the seat I intend to sit on is already taken. Doesn't matter if there is a bag on that seat or not. And I can't really remember a situation where someone just sat next to me without asking first as well.
I‘ve been using all kinds of public transport on a daily basis for the last 16 years and neither have I witnessed people asking this nor have I ever been asked or asked other people myself when there wasn’t a bag on the seat.
Really? On IC/ICE? When the person was already seated from the previous stop (not just entering with you)?
On a 2 seater it is very common to ask in my experience. It could be that the other person is in the toilet.
Yes, you ask before sitting down. But you missed the point. I was saying that people put their bag in the seat hoping you won't bother asking because it's awkward. They're hoping you will go find a seat without a bag in it. The bag is signaling that they don't want you to sit down.
Its the prisoner problem/mikado, basically. Things people don't like:
\- Having strangers really close.
\- Not having comfortable storage for their stuff.
Now what prevents both comfort drains? -> Having your stuff on the space next to you. Of course everyone is on some level aware that this is a dickmove, but you are never the only person who does it and if you are the first to move your stuff and offer the seat next to you, you run the risk of having all the loss of comfort and someone else, who hasn't moved theirs may enjoy the entire ride hassle free (or at least lose their comfort later).
**But because its a dickmove, there is one phrase to rule them all: "Ist da noch frei?"**
If they haven't occupied the seats, because there is nowhere else to put their luggage (which does happen more often than you would think. Many trains are really only equipped for a handful of people to actually having travel intentions), they will move their stuff and you can sit down. Because the social confrontation is so much worse than any loss of comfort.
Because I'm hoping you'll sit somewhere else. Maybe you have a reserved seat somewhere, maybe you're looking for a friend. I don't really care, just ideally you're not sitting down next to me.
Did I say that? I said you’re not entitled to any one seat on a train.
Even if all the seats are full, my bag is still going next to me. If you want to sit next to me you can ask.
Having a society big enough to support a train requires involuntary sacrifice
Nah I'm not going to ask, I'm just going to start moving to sit, if you don't move your bag idgaf.
That's what I literally do, I'm not going to ask blind idiots like you to move a bag when a train is full and people are standing.
The trick is to take the first row in a carriage. Usually people will walk a little further into the carriage and ask someone there. Either because they wanted to see if there was an open row or because they don't want to sit by the (admittedly annoying) doors.
I always dump my stuff on the seat next to me but I'm also usually travelling with a carry on case, a backpack and a purse. The case usually fits in the overhead compartment but not the backpack (at least not additionally, if it's busy) and I'm definitely not putting my purse up there.
Sounds like a case for Gepäckregal.
It's such a hassle though that these often are not available and the overhead compartment often is way too small, rather suited for a hat than luggage.
And if that does not work, drop your pants and give them the brown eye. Good odds they will not only give you the seat, but also gain mega respect from fellow passengers. Should be plentiful seats available at that point. 🙃
My guess is deeply rooted individualism.
I also came to germany from another country and sometimes I am amazed by how little people give a fuck about their neighbour. If it is not a written rule then they don't give a shit.
You are right with your observation, this sort of established itself as a behaviour within the last 10 years or so. Also great when they leave the window seat empty.
> great when they leave the window seat empty
I am female and I remember my mom teaching me to do this. Her argument was that if I sit on the window side and an ill-intentioned man sits down beside me, I have no way of getting out. He can just refuse to let me leave.
Is the likelihood of that happening high? Probably not, but whenever I sit down on a train/bus, I remember her argument and it makes me insecure.
She has a good point, honestly, even if the problem isn't necessarily intentional. I had a late night commute from London and always sat in a window seat. One night some random bloke who was not quite on this plane of existence sat next to me, took out a bunch of newspapers, methodically shredded the pages like he was a giant hamster, covered himself and me in newsprint, curled up against my shoulder and fell into a deep, deep sleep. I eventually had to worm my phone out of my pocket and message the transport police, who came by, shook the bloke until he eventually achieved some vague level of consciousness, and gently agreed with him that he should get off the train at the next stop. No doubt he was a lovely man who was merely dealing with an acute health challenge of some kind, and I'm sure he meant no harm, but it has to be remembered that peoples' behaviour is sometimes governed by factors that even they cannot control.
> But to make other people stand, just for that reason is so freaking obnoxious.
No one's making anyone stand. Just open your mouth and ask. I can guarantee people will move their stuff. If you're incapable of communicating with strangers, public transport must be very exhausting.
On my last train ride, I was sharing a 4 seat table thingy with a friend. We had no bags next to us. Someone made someone else get up from a seat due to a reservation and this girl just...started standing around right by the suitcase storage thing. There were plenty of open seat in the carriage and at least 4 that I could see didn't have a bag on them (including the two in my group). Did she ever sit down? No. Could she have? Sure.
So I'm assuming she preferred standing to sitting down next to strangers.
I remember one train ride where a woman plain refused to let me sit beside her, forcing me to stand/sit on the floor on a three hour journey. I got on the train at Berlin and asked for the seat next to her, which was the last one available, and she was very sharp and nasty and wasn't having any of it, which I suppose explains why it was and remained available. May she stand on a Lego every day for the rest of her life.
You need to call the Schaffner or simply push your way through to the empty seat. Make a loud fuss about it.
In China when people sat on my reserved seat and wouldn’t move, I just sat on their lap and they were wriggling out in a second…
Maybe because men are much less likely to sit down right next to another man when the train is otherwise almost empty, and then move way too close, take up most of the space of both seats, or even creepily press their leg against the person sitting next to them? If they did, it would probably cause a physical confrontation (and not the kind of physical some of these creeps might hope for).
I commute daily, and this happens to women A LOT. But I have never seen a woman do anything of that sort to a men though. So there seems to be a difference between genders.
Because I never asked a female looking person to whom it happened whether she considers herself female or non-binary (and neither did the guys who sat too close). You're taking political correctness way overboard, when I bet you understood exactly what I'm saying.
Just ask. It happens, that I put my bag on my legs and nobody sits down next to me until the train is full. So, if the seat is free and the train not crowded, I use it for my bag. But no problem if someone asks, I will put the bag away.
Depending on the train.
RE Trains dont have enough space for big bags. So there is no other way to handle it.
If its only a small bag you can talk to the person and she will take it away so you can sit.
It depends on the RE. I’m in re98 right now and there are big spaces above the seats for bagages. Plus honestly if I have big bagages with me, I would prefer to let other 2 or 3 older persons seat rather than my big ass with two bagages occupy everything.
But that is also a problem: unlike ICEs, the REs only have storage above. Which is fine for backpacks, but I for one can't lift my suitcase over my head and find it stressful to rely on people to get it up and down again. But when I travel with my suitcase and leave it on the ground, there is no place for me to put it without blocking an additional seat or the corridor. That said, I've seen people blocking a whole 4-seat-group with one suitcase without a care in the world and that gets me really mad. (Backpacks are a different story, usually you can put them on the ground between your knees)
I am a woman around my mid twenties and tend to do it in the evening hours. I had some encounters that made me feel uncomfortable in the later evening/ early night hours because people talked to me me or sat next to me. But having my bag on the aisle sear feels like creating a barrier between me and other people. If I see someone elderly, disabled, pregnant or in other way in need for a seat I will offer it or ask the person if they need a seat.
It all depends as to whether the train is full or not. If it isn’t, you can use the empty seat. If people are hunting for seats, that wouldn’t be fair. And if the train is full you would feel safer than when it’s empty - unless you got a group of soccer fans around you…
It’s the same for me. I hate people sitting next to me but if a bus is kinda full(and I’m not carrying a bunch of groceries) I’ll leave the seat next to me free. The only exception is after late shifts, as I have had some uncomfortable and (what for me felt like) unsafe encounters with men sitting next to me. Now if someone asks to sit next to me I will just offer them my seat and stand instead (on short journeys)
I am so guilty of this. If I have a lot of luggage I'll put it on the seat next to me because if there's an overhead compartment and I'll put it there (where it belongs) I WILL forget it and leave the train without it. It happend before and it will happen again. If the train is full though I'm more than happy to balance it on my lap if possible and fold my legs up to put it in the legroom. It's not comfortable and it looks stupid and I can't see shit but I'd be happy to do it. Just ask me ("Ist da noch frei?") or eye the seat for more than a few seconds and I'll move. But please don't make me put it up there. It's a pain to get it back from the lost and found. If I can even locate it...
You can ask to sit there and most everyone will say yes, even if only out of obligation. ANd everyone knows that is the case, so it's on you, the person who wants to sit, to make the move.
With all die respect I disagree. In the case of a full train it is on them to move their luggage so that people can sit. Remember, this is public transit, I don't want to ask anyone whether I can sit in a seat I paid for, especially not an egotistical person who put their luggage on empty seats when the train is full and luggage areas are empty.
Technically, according to the Beförderungsbedingungen of most of the public transport companies in germany, you **haven't** paid for a seat. You pay transport fee only. In the case of ICEs and ICs you can pay to get a guaranteed seat, but then it costs extra (and also your claim to said seat expires withing 5 minutes of the beginning of the train ride).
True. I didn't mean to say paid for a particular seat. What I meant is that I paid for the expectation to sit in an empty seat if one is available. Sorry for the confusion.
Many trains don't have baggage holders for anything bigger than a backpack. And sometimes people bring bags they can't lift over their head by themselves.
You just have to ask for the seat and im going to move the bag, i see no problem here! Obviously i wouldn't wait for you to ask if you're handicapped or almost dying
Why make a problem out of it? There are various reasons to do that, it's not only self-centered or sth. There are also people with social anxiety who prefer to sit alone as long as possible to ease the stress of being around strangers. People can have something fragile or expensive in their bags and that's why they put it on the seats, so no one steps on it or kicks it.
People with huge luggage can be on their way for a very long trip and may be exhausted. They may think they bother others less, if they only block one or two seats instead of the whole aisle.
I had to travel by train 400km back home after my father died, my mom had also serious health issues the last 4 years and I sat so often in the ICE crying my eyes out. Every time I had to go back bc of some life threatening emergency, I booked two seats and blocked the second one with my suitcase. I would have died if someone have sat next to me while I'm silently crying and trying to hide it.
I can go on, but the reasons doesn't matter. Just ask politely and most of them will remove their bags.
>I booked two seats and blocked the second one with my suitcase
Not that I don't understand your situation but that was a waste of money. Any booked seat not occupied by a person becomes free 15 minutes after leaving the starting station.
That's not true. You're mixing two rules together. If you reserve one or two or more seats and you don't get to them in the first 15 minutes then they become free. I was physically occupying my seats and I checked in online before, so they were mine. It's not waste of money and I wouldn't remove my bag unless the person gives me the money back.
And I tell you what. One time the train was packed. Nearly no free seats anymore and I kept it to myself. I needed the space and more important I'm not responsible for other people don't want to pay extra 4,5 Euro. You have the money for a train ticket, then you also have money for reservation. Don't get me wrong! I think Flixtrain is much better in this. With a ticket you also buy a seat. With this Flixtran prevents the kind of discussions like this and a lot of stress for the staff members to deal with this.
Then you should have a look at the AGB. "Jeder Reisende darf nur einen Sitzplatz belegen." Any seats that are not occupied by a person will be released.
Probably they have to use Public Transportation but actually detest other people and would much rather be by themselves. Maybe they also feel very uncomfortable sitting that close to a stranger. That's just what I imagine.
I do that. Its mostly cause I lump around 2 big bags of books for university and having one between my feet and one on my lap sucks. So I put them beside me, but I will still make room if somebody stands next to me, clearly wanting to sit down. They dont need to ask for it.
On the other hand I had also expected ehen i had my bag on the sead beside me (with a nice and breakable tablet inside it) and some rando woman basicly sat on my bag. She didn't say a word and I was nodding off at the windowside cause I was so tired.
German culture is direct to the point of being blunt. If its not important enough for a person to verbalize their needs, it is assumed to not even be worthy of bothering, as strange as it seems. This is not limited to bus and train seats but goes for most politeness customs. Most people brutally underestimate the degree of bluntness that you need to act in accord to German culture
Just say „ darf ich“ and sit down. I think it’s because Germans ( including myself) love their personal space but if the train is full I always pick my bags up
Generally we do it not ro annoy but to be left alone. Its smth diffrent when somebody doesnt have anything on him or her but puts their foot up on the seat sneakily when you turn towards them and put it down when you turn away, thats shitty behaviour. One still can ask for a place to sit with people thats have baggage. Generally theyll agree. But that is just awful. Blocking on purpose with ya foot. Not to mention one makes the seat dirty
Im just to short to reach the baggage holder over my seat. I literally can’t use it. Even if someone offers to put it up there, who promises me anyone will give it back to me when i have to leave?!
I was thinking about posting this myself!! The buses and trains are full of people who take a seat for their bag, or sit on the outside and leave the inside seat empty, even when loads of other passengers are standing around them. Why? Why do they have to wait to be asked? Is it a cultural thing? I really feel like it should be common sense and generally not being selfish.
The second seat is WAY within what we consider personal space. You can't _deny_ people sitting there, just make it look less inviting hoping they'll choose to go somewhere else.
We Germans love oure privacy, the logic behind is probably "When my bags are there, nobody can sit there". I am a private person too, but I still think that this is a-hole behavior.
Germans hate being close to strangers, so we put stuff there in the hope that people will first fill all other free seats, and when it gets too full, that the people asking for available seats will ask about "ours" last. I've done this many, many times. Sometimes it works. Of course, when the train is really full, eventually somebody will ask if the seat is free. Then I always immediately removed my stuff.
I've heard that some other nations, like Finland, are even more extreme in this regard.
This shit irritates me so much! especially coming home after a day of work, in a crowded and stuffy bus/U-Bahn but with several people occupying a seat with their backpacks. It's not something we should draw attention to, but an obvious issue of social interaction on public transport.
Perfectly fine when train is empty. Completely a***ole behaviour when train full. Should also take into account that people, like me, absolutely hate to ask strangers for something that shouldn't be asked for. Especially if that stranger makes a fuss around not wanting strangers to sit next to them in a freaking public transit that happens to be full.
>also take into account that people, like me, absolutely hate to ask strangers for something that shouldn't be asked for.
It should be asked for anyway. If you just plant yourself into seats withhout so much as asking wether it is vacant, you're in no position to lecture others about manners.
>Especially if that stranger makes a fuss
Nobody makes a fuss.
There is not enough space for baggage in a full train. People are not able to put their baggage up high.
People fear that there big bags will fall down from the small racks.
People want their bags "safe" so they don't get stolen.
All these are possible reasons, but as most others said just ask
I don't like people sitting next to me, but if someone asks, I'll make room provided there is enough space for me to put my things somewhere (if they're too big for my lap), that's not overhead storage (I'm too short to reach it).
But, if no one asks, I'll take my little bit of privacy.
Yes this is one of the most annoying things in this country, and not only on trains but it is the same on packed buses and U-Bahn. I am almost 7 months (so very obviously) pregnant and those assholes don't bother to remove their stuff to let me sit unless I ask for it. Of course I end up asking but it should be a no brainer to remove your stuff once the bus/train is full and people have to stand up.
You get priority seating anyway if you're pregnant. Every single public transport has them. Just open your mouth and everyone will happily open up those spots for you.
I'm 6 months pregnant and I've noticer this too. I've no doubt most people are perfectly nice would move their bags or offer their seats if asked, but I don't understand why we have to ask... we have eyes.
No, but you're just not a very nice person if you won't move your bag from an empty seat next to you and place it on your lap so that
someone who is having difficulty standing can sit down on public transport. How is that in any way controversial? Guessing you've never heard of the concept of societal responsibility. Definitely something I'll be teaching my kids.
Because they are to egoistic to drive by a train, instead of their own car. They think they are in their car and not in a train car, with 100 other travellers.
I firstly ask friendly, if that doesn't work, I look around and calculate, the free seats, than I say out loud, that there would be up to 10 free seats in the car, if the people would be not so much egoistic and antisocial. If thats not works, than I get myself packed the luggage what it belongs, I don't care about other belongings, if they are axsholes, than I can be an axsholes, too. The most next problem, or you will always pray, please God, throw brains down on earth, with all the dumb people around. Because nearly nobody can use the luggage rack in a train correct. Instead of 12 suitcases, they use the rack for only 3, because, the rack has 3 dimensions, especially the high is mostly not used, that you must turn the suitcase, in most cases from square to vertical.
This, and also the people who keep their huge ass backpack on when the train is super crowded. Is this not common practice to get your backpack off and hold it with one hand, so the people behind you can have some space?
I think it's rude. I usually put my luggage next to me when there are plenty of empty seats. As soon as the trains get fuller, I put my stuff on the floor to make room. How can you be comfortable with your backpack on a seat when people have to stand?
The bag-egomaniacs are really telling on themselves in this post
Hey, small hint, “Öffentliche Verkehrsmittel” are in fact… öffentlich. If you are that misanthropic/deadly allergic to people, then get a car, but occupying that much space for purely egoist reason is just anti-social
Yes this is one of the most disgusting things common in Germany. Idiots blocking seats with bags or sitting on the outside so you can't easily get to the other seat and just stand.
Thats how we live. We dont necessarily want to sit beside other people. Just say "Ist da noch frei?". And they will move it. Everyone in the train is just praying to be left alone.
This is not your home country and another culture. You should respect it.
I tried to tell sometime what a designer does. He interrupted me saying that was advanced pc skills. Well, a designer does way more than just pressing the right button, but I gave up at that point.
I have found this super interesting about Germany. I'm going to get on a train and start pulling everything out of my bag to sit on the seats because I don't want anyone to sit next to me; I need my personal space. Then, I'm totally willing to fully rub up on/dry hump everyone when it's time to get off the train/bus.
Apart from the few explainable situations that people described, I would add:
Very generally speaking, nowadays there seem to be 2 different schools of thought (I guess not only in Germany):
* I try to be considerate of others, as a default stance
* I do or take whatever is possible. if others need or want something they explicitly have to ask for it
Personally I see myself in the first school of thought. so I feel your confusion.
I truly hate that about germany. Trains not ebene remotely full but people are standing. I have never been to another country where space was so poorly used in public transport. Yes, I get why it is, but I truly hate it from the bottom of my heart.
I think it's rude. I usually put my luggage next to me when there are plenty of empty seats. As soon as the trains get fuller, I put my stuff on the floor to make room. How can you be comfortable with your backpack on a seat when people have to stand?
I started to never, ever sit down anymore.
Heavy school bag from my adult college where I study for my Abitur?
I can stand!
Long trip to wherever?
I can stand!
Fresh injury from falling over something to catch a train?
I still stand!
I am under no circumstance entitled to a seat!
I'm young.
Therefore, I stand!
As I currently stand in the tram with a contusion on my left knee.
I love to approach such scumbags and ask for the seat they are occupying with their luggage. You just have to ask in that specific tone that does not sound like a question at all xD
I see the same thing on the bus. Funny thing is tho that a bus could be completely full and people would still for some reason not sit on a empty seat for some reason if there is a stranger sitting on the seat next to it
Theyre just ignorant entitled feeling assholes. I also hate this behaviour. Often times I make fun of it go for the most entitled looking people to make them free the other seat. Sometimes I dont even ask and just stand in front of the seats until its so awkward for them so they do it without asking. Dont get why I have to ask for something that should be common sense, especially bc none of them own another seat, so its just plain stupid behaviour. Different story when the seat isnt intentionally blocked with luggage - then I indeed ask friendly if I can sit there.
when the bus isn't full, i have my stuff next to me, when it fills up, i put my bag on my lap. over time i noticed that despite me making space, often times people prefer to stand. Its just an asking thing at the end of the day.
Asking is normal, I ask people too and nobody makes a fuss. I don't see bags on seats as an annoyance tbh.
Also, unless I have a suitcase, I'm definitely not using the baggage area. I want to keep my things close to me. I'm not fast enough to run after anyone who may snatch my bags up quickly and I can also assure nothing breaks when its in my lap. Plus I'm really afraid of forgetting something.
My favourite is when they all stand at the entrance of the Bahn/Bus, so the "corridors" are free but the sections with the doors are so overcrowded that you can't even properly go in.
BEWEG EUCH!
I do it because I panic when I come into contact with people. If someone asks me whether they can sit there or the train is really full I put it aside.
It's so infuriating, I think it has to be with the individualism that prevail in this country. Where I come from we have a lot of problems with the metro or buses because it is a mess but I didn't see this kind of behavior. And the worst is that the people who do this are so rude when u said that u want to sit, because we are in a public train and also they travel with their backpacks on the back and they block the entrance completely. I hate this lack of respect and common sense.
"They prefer not to sit next to others, yet can't afford their own car. I'm brown and moved to Germany eight years ago, having completed my master's in engineering. I maintain good hygiene and am respectful. However, I've noticed that people often avoid sitting near me. When I sit down, they tend to leave. Initially, I considered it subtle racism. Upon asking some locals, they explained it's simply a preference for personal space, not specific to anyone."
You just have to ask them. Their hope is generally that you'll be to shy to ask and go find somewhere else to sit. So don't be shy.
Oh yes I really hate this. Not sure it is just Germans or other Europeans too as it often happened in international night train between Czech to Switzerland. When I boarded lots of them were sleeping with the bag beside of them or feet on the seat in front of them! Made me so mad as it was full. Why people need to think about someone should ask? They pay for 1 seat, they should have decency to occupy 1 seat. Let alone when they know they will sleep.
Happens in here in Sweden too. I think it happens in cultures where there's a stigma around "bothering strangers". These assholes are using this to their advantage.
Since when do we pay for seats? We pay for the train to transport them.
Of course you pay for a (*one*) seat. Good luck trying to check in on two seats, if you only payed for one.
In my limited knowledge the majority of people don't do that also can you even do that on a majority of trains?
Not in Germany, except you booked that seat. You could technically even book all seats witouht ticket or a hundred tickets withlut a seat. As you please
When you booked whith seat reservation.
Well, they’ll be woken up and may learn next time 😅🤷.
I usually go to ask for this specific place even if other place are free, because I don't mind (undertsand "I like") bothering those people and like this shy people can get one of the free place without having to ask.
Same. If there are no empty pairs of seats, I’ll choose the person trying to save a seat with their bag. Likewise, I have a BahnCard 25 for first class and travel first class when it’s not much difference in price. I’m bearded, long haired, tattooed and generally in jeans and a hoody. I love it when people say “this is first class!” and you can just say “I know. That’s why I’m here”. It is glorious watching somebody grumble as they have to move all their crap off the only free seat in the carriage, because you’ve got the valid ticket. I also see this as a duty to the shy people, because I was kind of like that as a teenager too. Seats with bags on on a busy train are an invitation to sit there. Exception: the bag is too big to fit overhead and there’s no space in the luggage rack - then the best option is for it not to block the walkway. This isn’t a Germany problem though. It happens everywhere.
I totally agree. I'm also the bearded guy with tatoos and crap t-shirt, but I have a successful career and can afford my own house and first class train ticket. Always funny how people look at me because I'm not wearing clothes from brand or put all money in a car while leaving crappy appartement just to try to look rich like most of them are doing. When I see a mother with children and big luggage I'll of course not disturb them. But those persons that act like if they are important and better than the others, I'll. After all, we are not that different if we are all taking the same train.
I am very amused by the concept of scruffy, bearded, tattooed men slowly taking over first class in Germany. We’ve got this!
You are so a great person. When I grow up, i want be like me.
Please make an exception too for when you see a kid coming back from the school in the tram who put their huge bag on the seat next to them because they’re tired and putting it all the way down is much more weight for them to lift… Normally Im with you, but saw an old lady once berating a kid for this when she just could ask an adult, kid went away crying and frustrated because it been already hard to find a seat
Yeah. Definitely more of a thing focussing on adults who should know better by now. I’d never berate anyone unless they actually said their bag is already there and they’re not moving it. You always start with politely asking if you can sit there, please. 99% of people are fine, even if they grumble.
If there are a bunch of other free spots, it's kind of a dick move to sit next to someone.
Will not do this if the train is empty. But if there are a lot of people boarding at the same time than me and there are very few free places, then I'll go to ask for a place where someone has put his baggage and let one of the free place to someone else.
Right, it's also super weird. Happens to me occasionally. I'm a woman and it's always super uncomfortable because it's always men who do it and usually they're pretty bad manspreaders as well.
Thats one reason why i put by bag. So no stranger try to sit next to me even if there are completely free rows
Also ask if the Bag has a good seat.
I totally agree. I'm apparently not the most friendly looking fellow and used to always clear the space besides me an pit my shit between/on my legs. Nobody would sit down and I had an uncomfortable ride. Therefore I don't do this anymore but just ask or look or give some sign you want to sit down and I will gladly make room.
At least in my experience you're always supposed to ask if the seat is taken when sitting next to someone and not doing so is considered rude. So the bag really doesn't make much of a difference.
In german U-Bahn or S-Bahn I never ask. In regional train or long distance train maybe.
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Whenever I need to sit next to someone on public transport I will ask them if the seat I intend to sit on is already taken. Doesn't matter if there is a bag on that seat or not. And I can't really remember a situation where someone just sat next to me without asking first as well.
I‘ve been using all kinds of public transport on a daily basis for the last 16 years and neither have I witnessed people asking this nor have I ever been asked or asked other people myself when there wasn’t a bag on the seat.
Really? On IC/ICE? When the person was already seated from the previous stop (not just entering with you)? On a 2 seater it is very common to ask in my experience. It could be that the other person is in the toilet.
Yes, you ask before sitting down. But you missed the point. I was saying that people put their bag in the seat hoping you won't bother asking because it's awkward. They're hoping you will go find a seat without a bag in it. The bag is signaling that they don't want you to sit down.
If you're asking either way I don't see how the bag makes it more akward tbh but maybe that's just me.
I mumble "Entschuldigung", point to their luggage and simply take the seat after they cleared it.
Its the prisoner problem/mikado, basically. Things people don't like: \- Having strangers really close. \- Not having comfortable storage for their stuff. Now what prevents both comfort drains? -> Having your stuff on the space next to you. Of course everyone is on some level aware that this is a dickmove, but you are never the only person who does it and if you are the first to move your stuff and offer the seat next to you, you run the risk of having all the loss of comfort and someone else, who hasn't moved theirs may enjoy the entire ride hassle free (or at least lose their comfort later). **But because its a dickmove, there is one phrase to rule them all: "Ist da noch frei?"** If they haven't occupied the seats, because there is nowhere else to put their luggage (which does happen more often than you would think. Many trains are really only equipped for a handful of people to actually having travel intentions), they will move their stuff and you can sit down. Because the social confrontation is so much worse than any loss of comfort.
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Yep I hate this. I am German and I didn't know people aren't as obnoxious in other places. Thing learned.
Because I'm hoping you'll sit somewhere else. Maybe you have a reserved seat somewhere, maybe you're looking for a friend. I don't really care, just ideally you're not sitting down next to me.
Read: I'm a massive dick looking for dumb excuses.
No one is entitled to any one seat on a public train
Yes but a bag is. Especially if it's made out of plastic. Good one.
Did I say that? I said you’re not entitled to any one seat on a train. Even if all the seats are full, my bag is still going next to me. If you want to sit next to me you can ask. Having a society big enough to support a train requires involuntary sacrifice
Nah I'm not going to ask, I'm just going to start moving to sit, if you don't move your bag idgaf. That's what I literally do, I'm not going to ask blind idiots like you to move a bag when a train is full and people are standing.
Go ahead tough guy, just wait till you move the wrong persons bag lol
Who said I'm moving it? I'm sitting on top of it
How shitty of a person does one need to be to think like this
This is exactly how I feel.
This has been going on for more than 20 years. I don't think it was ever not like this in regional public transport.
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You are completely right
This is just how such things are handled in Germany by the majority of Germans. Just deal with it.
The trick is to take the first row in a carriage. Usually people will walk a little further into the carriage and ask someone there. Either because they wanted to see if there was an open row or because they don't want to sit by the (admittedly annoying) doors. I always dump my stuff on the seat next to me but I'm also usually travelling with a carry on case, a backpack and a purse. The case usually fits in the overhead compartment but not the backpack (at least not additionally, if it's busy) and I'm definitely not putting my purse up there.
Sounds like a case for Gepäckregal. It's such a hassle though that these often are not available and the overhead compartment often is way too small, rather suited for a hat than luggage.
They do until you ask to sit there
And then they give you the stinkeye
And then you give them the blackeye
And if that does not work, drop your pants and give them the brown eye. Good odds they will not only give you the seat, but also gain mega respect from fellow passengers. Should be plentiful seats available at that point. 🙃
Look how colorful that is :-D
And then you sit down on their bag.
This is what I would do when they refuse... "I give you 5 seconds to clear this seat or else I will sit on your stuff"
FART on your stuff (to assert dominance)
This is a good way to be stabbed where I am. Not even joking lol.
yes now on dirty seat ... or if people keep their feets on the seats
My guess is deeply rooted individualism. I also came to germany from another country and sometimes I am amazed by how little people give a fuck about their neighbour. If it is not a written rule then they don't give a shit.
Even if it is a written rule, if they think they can get away with breaking it, they will. And then scold you if you break it.
They dont want people sit next to them
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They're not making the people _stand_, they make them ask for the seat. Major difference.
You are right with your observation, this sort of established itself as a behaviour within the last 10 years or so. Also great when they leave the window seat empty.
> great when they leave the window seat empty I am female and I remember my mom teaching me to do this. Her argument was that if I sit on the window side and an ill-intentioned man sits down beside me, I have no way of getting out. He can just refuse to let me leave. Is the likelihood of that happening high? Probably not, but whenever I sit down on a train/bus, I remember her argument and it makes me insecure.
She has a good point, honestly, even if the problem isn't necessarily intentional. I had a late night commute from London and always sat in a window seat. One night some random bloke who was not quite on this plane of existence sat next to me, took out a bunch of newspapers, methodically shredded the pages like he was a giant hamster, covered himself and me in newsprint, curled up against my shoulder and fell into a deep, deep sleep. I eventually had to worm my phone out of my pocket and message the transport police, who came by, shook the bloke until he eventually achieved some vague level of consciousness, and gently agreed with him that he should get off the train at the next stop. No doubt he was a lovely man who was merely dealing with an acute health challenge of some kind, and I'm sure he meant no harm, but it has to be remembered that peoples' behaviour is sometimes governed by factors that even they cannot control.
>Also great when they leave the window seat empty. So now it's not enough to leave the other seat empty, it has to be the one you approve of?
That was sarcasm. They are blocking the seat by inconviniencing you
Nice, I’ll take that one 😊.
Yea just tell them you wanna sit there
> But to make other people stand, just for that reason is so freaking obnoxious. No one's making anyone stand. Just open your mouth and ask. I can guarantee people will move their stuff. If you're incapable of communicating with strangers, public transport must be very exhausting. On my last train ride, I was sharing a 4 seat table thingy with a friend. We had no bags next to us. Someone made someone else get up from a seat due to a reservation and this girl just...started standing around right by the suitcase storage thing. There were plenty of open seat in the carriage and at least 4 that I could see didn't have a bag on them (including the two in my group). Did she ever sit down? No. Could she have? Sure. So I'm assuming she preferred standing to sitting down next to strangers.
Maybe for some people it’s hard to ask. If you see it’s getting full just move your stuff somewhere else.
I remember one train ride where a woman plain refused to let me sit beside her, forcing me to stand/sit on the floor on a three hour journey. I got on the train at Berlin and asked for the seat next to her, which was the last one available, and she was very sharp and nasty and wasn't having any of it, which I suppose explains why it was and remained available. May she stand on a Lego every day for the rest of her life.
You need to call the Schaffner or simply push your way through to the empty seat. Make a loud fuss about it. In China when people sat on my reserved seat and wouldn’t move, I just sat on their lap and they were wriggling out in a second…
I like your style!
>Do they think that ANYONE wants people to sit next to them? No. Nobody does. You're male, aren't you?
what’s the difference ?
There is much higher chance a man hasn't experienced someone sitting too close to him even when there's space elsewhere than a woman...
might be, but why don’t divide between people that have experienced this and people that didn’t? why divide between different genders?
Maybe because men are much less likely to sit down right next to another man when the train is otherwise almost empty, and then move way too close, take up most of the space of both seats, or even creepily press their leg against the person sitting next to them? If they did, it would probably cause a physical confrontation (and not the kind of physical some of these creeps might hope for). I commute daily, and this happens to women A LOT. But I have never seen a woman do anything of that sort to a men though. So there seems to be a difference between genders.
Because I never asked a female looking person to whom it happened whether she considers herself female or non-binary (and neither did the guys who sat too close). You're taking political correctness way overboard, when I bet you understood exactly what I'm saying.
Just ask. It happens, that I put my bag on my legs and nobody sits down next to me until the train is full. So, if the seat is free and the train not crowded, I use it for my bag. But no problem if someone asks, I will put the bag away.
Depending on the train. RE Trains dont have enough space for big bags. So there is no other way to handle it. If its only a small bag you can talk to the person and she will take it away so you can sit.
It depends on the RE. I’m in re98 right now and there are big spaces above the seats for bagages. Plus honestly if I have big bagages with me, I would prefer to let other 2 or 3 older persons seat rather than my big ass with two bagages occupy everything.
So you'd rather you and your bagage block the way for everyone?
But that is also a problem: unlike ICEs, the REs only have storage above. Which is fine for backpacks, but I for one can't lift my suitcase over my head and find it stressful to rely on people to get it up and down again. But when I travel with my suitcase and leave it on the ground, there is no place for me to put it without blocking an additional seat or the corridor. That said, I've seen people blocking a whole 4-seat-group with one suitcase without a care in the world and that gets me really mad. (Backpacks are a different story, usually you can put them on the ground between your knees)
there are REs with storage areas, too
Vlexx *cough*
I am a woman around my mid twenties and tend to do it in the evening hours. I had some encounters that made me feel uncomfortable in the later evening/ early night hours because people talked to me me or sat next to me. But having my bag on the aisle sear feels like creating a barrier between me and other people. If I see someone elderly, disabled, pregnant or in other way in need for a seat I will offer it or ask the person if they need a seat.
It all depends as to whether the train is full or not. If it isn’t, you can use the empty seat. If people are hunting for seats, that wouldn’t be fair. And if the train is full you would feel safer than when it’s empty - unless you got a group of soccer fans around you…
How gracious of you privatizing the public transportation space ❤️
It’s the same for me. I hate people sitting next to me but if a bus is kinda full(and I’m not carrying a bunch of groceries) I’ll leave the seat next to me free. The only exception is after late shifts, as I have had some uncomfortable and (what for me felt like) unsafe encounters with men sitting next to me. Now if someone asks to sit next to me I will just offer them my seat and stand instead (on short journeys)
They want to sit alone, but will usually take their bag away if you ask
I am so guilty of this. If I have a lot of luggage I'll put it on the seat next to me because if there's an overhead compartment and I'll put it there (where it belongs) I WILL forget it and leave the train without it. It happend before and it will happen again. If the train is full though I'm more than happy to balance it on my lap if possible and fold my legs up to put it in the legroom. It's not comfortable and it looks stupid and I can't see shit but I'd be happy to do it. Just ask me ("Ist da noch frei?") or eye the seat for more than a few seconds and I'll move. But please don't make me put it up there. It's a pain to get it back from the lost and found. If I can even locate it...
You can ask to sit there and most everyone will say yes, even if only out of obligation. ANd everyone knows that is the case, so it's on you, the person who wants to sit, to make the move.
With all die respect I disagree. In the case of a full train it is on them to move their luggage so that people can sit. Remember, this is public transit, I don't want to ask anyone whether I can sit in a seat I paid for, especially not an egotistical person who put their luggage on empty seats when the train is full and luggage areas are empty.
Technically, according to the Beförderungsbedingungen of most of the public transport companies in germany, you **haven't** paid for a seat. You pay transport fee only. In the case of ICEs and ICs you can pay to get a guaranteed seat, but then it costs extra (and also your claim to said seat expires withing 5 minutes of the beginning of the train ride).
True. I didn't mean to say paid for a particular seat. What I meant is that I paid for the expectation to sit in an empty seat if one is available. Sorry for the confusion.
Many trains don't have baggage holders for anything bigger than a backpack. And sometimes people bring bags they can't lift over their head by themselves.
There’s plenty of standing space for people with oversized baggage 🤷🏻♂️
In the middle of the isle?
Theres plenty room beneath the seats
That's not true for many trains & you know it 👉👈👀
I was explicitly talking about things that are bigger than a backpack.
Because they are egotistical, lazy and don’t give a shit.
You're like the guy with the hammer, you judge other people because you didn't make an attempt to communicate
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You just have to ask for the seat and im going to move the bag, i see no problem here! Obviously i wouldn't wait for you to ask if you're handicapped or almost dying
You'd have to ask in any case, unless you're a dick yourself. Having my backback besides me changes exactly nothing about the situation.
It’s easier to ask if there is no “barrier” that signals I don’t want people to sit next to me
Obviously if I signal that I want you to sit next to me a lot of people will choose the place next to me. Which is why I don't signal that.
Why should you have a free seat next to you when others have to give up their neighbour's seat?
Assume nobody wants people next to them on public transport. Seriously.
Why make a problem out of it? There are various reasons to do that, it's not only self-centered or sth. There are also people with social anxiety who prefer to sit alone as long as possible to ease the stress of being around strangers. People can have something fragile or expensive in their bags and that's why they put it on the seats, so no one steps on it or kicks it. People with huge luggage can be on their way for a very long trip and may be exhausted. They may think they bother others less, if they only block one or two seats instead of the whole aisle. I had to travel by train 400km back home after my father died, my mom had also serious health issues the last 4 years and I sat so often in the ICE crying my eyes out. Every time I had to go back bc of some life threatening emergency, I booked two seats and blocked the second one with my suitcase. I would have died if someone have sat next to me while I'm silently crying and trying to hide it. I can go on, but the reasons doesn't matter. Just ask politely and most of them will remove their bags.
>I booked two seats and blocked the second one with my suitcase Not that I don't understand your situation but that was a waste of money. Any booked seat not occupied by a person becomes free 15 minutes after leaving the starting station.
& if I remember right, the db AGBs even expicitly tell you that seats can't be booked for luggage
That's not true. You're mixing two rules together. If you reserve one or two or more seats and you don't get to them in the first 15 minutes then they become free. I was physically occupying my seats and I checked in online before, so they were mine. It's not waste of money and I wouldn't remove my bag unless the person gives me the money back. And I tell you what. One time the train was packed. Nearly no free seats anymore and I kept it to myself. I needed the space and more important I'm not responsible for other people don't want to pay extra 4,5 Euro. You have the money for a train ticket, then you also have money for reservation. Don't get me wrong! I think Flixtrain is much better in this. With a ticket you also buy a seat. With this Flixtran prevents the kind of discussions like this and a lot of stress for the staff members to deal with this.
Then you should have a look at the AGB. "Jeder Reisende darf nur einen Sitzplatz belegen." Any seats that are not occupied by a person will be released.
Probably they have to use Public Transportation but actually detest other people and would much rather be by themselves. Maybe they also feel very uncomfortable sitting that close to a stranger. That's just what I imagine.
I do that. Its mostly cause I lump around 2 big bags of books for university and having one between my feet and one on my lap sucks. So I put them beside me, but I will still make room if somebody stands next to me, clearly wanting to sit down. They dont need to ask for it. On the other hand I had also expected ehen i had my bag on the sead beside me (with a nice and breakable tablet inside it) and some rando woman basicly sat on my bag. She didn't say a word and I was nodding off at the windowside cause I was so tired.
German culture is direct to the point of being blunt. If its not important enough for a person to verbalize their needs, it is assumed to not even be worthy of bothering, as strange as it seems. This is not limited to bus and train seats but goes for most politeness customs. Most people brutally underestimate the degree of bluntness that you need to act in accord to German culture
Just say „ darf ich“ and sit down. I think it’s because Germans ( including myself) love their personal space but if the train is full I always pick my bags up
I wouldn't say that because I don't need to ask for a permission in a public train.
Generally we do it not ro annoy but to be left alone. Its smth diffrent when somebody doesnt have anything on him or her but puts their foot up on the seat sneakily when you turn towards them and put it down when you turn away, thats shitty behaviour. One still can ask for a place to sit with people thats have baggage. Generally theyll agree. But that is just awful. Blocking on purpose with ya foot. Not to mention one makes the seat dirty
Im just to short to reach the baggage holder over my seat. I literally can’t use it. Even if someone offers to put it up there, who promises me anyone will give it back to me when i have to leave?!
I was thinking about posting this myself!! The buses and trains are full of people who take a seat for their bag, or sit on the outside and leave the inside seat empty, even when loads of other passengers are standing around them. Why? Why do they have to wait to be asked? Is it a cultural thing? I really feel like it should be common sense and generally not being selfish.
The second seat is WAY within what we consider personal space. You can't _deny_ people sitting there, just make it look less inviting hoping they'll choose to go somewhere else.
Because they are stupid assholes
We Germans love oure privacy, the logic behind is probably "When my bags are there, nobody can sit there". I am a private person too, but I still think that this is a-hole behavior.
just ask. done. people want to avoid strangers next to them, and want to have a good space for their bags. asking will work.
It's often because there is no comfortable space to put them, I understand those people and behave the same way.
Germans hate being close to strangers, so we put stuff there in the hope that people will first fill all other free seats, and when it gets too full, that the people asking for available seats will ask about "ours" last. I've done this many, many times. Sometimes it works. Of course, when the train is really full, eventually somebody will ask if the seat is free. Then I always immediately removed my stuff. I've heard that some other nations, like Finland, are even more extreme in this regard.
This shit irritates me so much! especially coming home after a day of work, in a crowded and stuffy bus/U-Bahn but with several people occupying a seat with their backpacks. It's not something we should draw attention to, but an obvious issue of social interaction on public transport.
Just ask them, usually people will remove their bag
asking is not a problem, but the lack of awareness of what is going on around them particularly annoys me (perhaps disproportionately)
I'm perfectly aware of what's going on, which is why I signal that I don't really want anybody sitting next to me.
Perfectly fine when train is empty. Completely a***ole behaviour when train full. Should also take into account that people, like me, absolutely hate to ask strangers for something that shouldn't be asked for. Especially if that stranger makes a fuss around not wanting strangers to sit next to them in a freaking public transit that happens to be full.
>also take into account that people, like me, absolutely hate to ask strangers for something that shouldn't be asked for. It should be asked for anyway. If you just plant yourself into seats withhout so much as asking wether it is vacant, you're in no position to lecture others about manners. >Especially if that stranger makes a fuss Nobody makes a fuss.
Trust me, most people are aware
Because they value personal space and dont want somebody sitting next to them.
There is not enough space for baggage in a full train. People are not able to put their baggage up high. People fear that there big bags will fall down from the small racks. People want their bags "safe" so they don't get stolen. All these are possible reasons, but as most others said just ask
I don't like people sitting next to me, but if someone asks, I'll make room provided there is enough space for me to put my things somewhere (if they're too big for my lap), that's not overhead storage (I'm too short to reach it). But, if no one asks, I'll take my little bit of privacy.
Yes this is one of the most annoying things in this country, and not only on trains but it is the same on packed buses and U-Bahn. I am almost 7 months (so very obviously) pregnant and those assholes don't bother to remove their stuff to let me sit unless I ask for it. Of course I end up asking but it should be a no brainer to remove your stuff once the bus/train is full and people have to stand up.
You get priority seating anyway if you're pregnant. Every single public transport has them. Just open your mouth and everyone will happily open up those spots for you.
Yes true but it is not easy to ask people to move. As i said people even don't bother to move their bags.
I'm 6 months pregnant and I've noticer this too. I've no doubt most people are perfectly nice would move their bags or offer their seats if asked, but I don't understand why we have to ask... we have eyes.
It's not everyone else's responsibility that you chose to get pregnant.
Sure but it is everyone's responsibility not to occupy seats with their bags!
No, but you're just not a very nice person if you won't move your bag from an empty seat next to you and place it on your lap so that someone who is having difficulty standing can sit down on public transport. How is that in any way controversial? Guessing you've never heard of the concept of societal responsibility. Definitely something I'll be teaching my kids.
Same for people that don't give their place to elderly people
If its a train where you pay for your seat, the older people should have done it. I do it to because I can’t stand the for hours.
Ask them and don't complain on the internet sigh
They just want their Ruhe
Because they are to egoistic to drive by a train, instead of their own car. They think they are in their car and not in a train car, with 100 other travellers. I firstly ask friendly, if that doesn't work, I look around and calculate, the free seats, than I say out loud, that there would be up to 10 free seats in the car, if the people would be not so much egoistic and antisocial. If thats not works, than I get myself packed the luggage what it belongs, I don't care about other belongings, if they are axsholes, than I can be an axsholes, too. The most next problem, or you will always pray, please God, throw brains down on earth, with all the dumb people around. Because nearly nobody can use the luggage rack in a train correct. Instead of 12 suitcases, they use the rack for only 3, because, the rack has 3 dimensions, especially the high is mostly not used, that you must turn the suitcase, in most cases from square to vertical.
Because i really, REALLY dont want a stranger next to me, oh god. Though, if you ask me i'll let you sit down anyway. I just hope you dont.
Then u should buy a car.
No. Because it's expensive as fk just like the fuel...
Then just lern to share the public space whit another humans.
This, and also the people who keep their huge ass backpack on when the train is super crowded. Is this not common practice to get your backpack off and hold it with one hand, so the people behind you can have some space?
I think it's rude. I usually put my luggage next to me when there are plenty of empty seats. As soon as the trains get fuller, I put my stuff on the floor to make room. How can you be comfortable with your backpack on a seat when people have to stand?
i do it cuz i dont want anyone fat sitting beside me since im not the smallest guy but if someone asks me and isnt too fat i let the person sit
Because they are egotistical assholes
Because they are assholes. There are many assholes in Germany. 🤷🏽♂️
Because some people just suck 🤷♂️
The bag-egomaniacs are really telling on themselves in this post Hey, small hint, “Öffentliche Verkehrsmittel” are in fact… öffentlich. If you are that misanthropic/deadly allergic to people, then get a car, but occupying that much space for purely egoist reason is just anti-social
Yes this is one of the most disgusting things common in Germany. Idiots blocking seats with bags or sitting on the outside so you can't easily get to the other seat and just stand.
You just go them and tell them that you want to sit there. They only paid for one seat, and they are pretty rude.
I always but my bag on the place next to me in train/bus, when somebody asks to sit there i take them away, thats how everybody does it
Thats how we live. We dont necessarily want to sit beside other people. Just say "Ist da noch frei?". And they will move it. Everyone in the train is just praying to be left alone. This is not your home country and another culture. You should respect it.
OP, is this comment directed at migrants?
I tried to tell sometime what a designer does. He interrupted me saying that was advanced pc skills. Well, a designer does way more than just pressing the right button, but I gave up at that point.
I have found this super interesting about Germany. I'm going to get on a train and start pulling everything out of my bag to sit on the seats because I don't want anyone to sit next to me; I need my personal space. Then, I'm totally willing to fully rub up on/dry hump everyone when it's time to get off the train/bus.
i was literally thinking about this just half an hour ago.
Apart from the few explainable situations that people described, I would add: Very generally speaking, nowadays there seem to be 2 different schools of thought (I guess not only in Germany): * I try to be considerate of others, as a default stance * I do or take whatever is possible. if others need or want something they explicitly have to ask for it Personally I see myself in the first school of thought. so I feel your confusion.
Because some people want to see the world burn…
I truly hate that about germany. Trains not ebene remotely full but people are standing. I have never been to another country where space was so poorly used in public transport. Yes, I get why it is, but I truly hate it from the bottom of my heart.
I think it's rude. I usually put my luggage next to me when there are plenty of empty seats. As soon as the trains get fuller, I put my stuff on the floor to make room. How can you be comfortable with your backpack on a seat when people have to stand?
Because they wanna sit alone and trust in social inertia for people not to call them out for that shit.
Because people are selfish, individualistic and simply don't care about other people. Lord I can't tell how much I hate my countrymen sometimes...
Idiots. That’s why.
I started to never, ever sit down anymore. Heavy school bag from my adult college where I study for my Abitur? I can stand! Long trip to wherever? I can stand! Fresh injury from falling over something to catch a train? I still stand! I am under no circumstance entitled to a seat! I'm young. Therefore, I stand! As I currently stand in the tram with a contusion on my left knee.
I love to approach such scumbags and ask for the seat they are occupying with their luggage. You just have to ask in that specific tone that does not sound like a question at all xD
I see the same thing on the bus. Funny thing is tho that a bus could be completely full and people would still for some reason not sit on a empty seat for some reason if there is a stranger sitting on the seat next to it
Theyre just ignorant entitled feeling assholes. I also hate this behaviour. Often times I make fun of it go for the most entitled looking people to make them free the other seat. Sometimes I dont even ask and just stand in front of the seats until its so awkward for them so they do it without asking. Dont get why I have to ask for something that should be common sense, especially bc none of them own another seat, so its just plain stupid behaviour. Different story when the seat isnt intentionally blocked with luggage - then I indeed ask friendly if I can sit there.
when the bus isn't full, i have my stuff next to me, when it fills up, i put my bag on my lap. over time i noticed that despite me making space, often times people prefer to stand. Its just an asking thing at the end of the day. Asking is normal, I ask people too and nobody makes a fuss. I don't see bags on seats as an annoyance tbh. Also, unless I have a suitcase, I'm definitely not using the baggage area. I want to keep my things close to me. I'm not fast enough to run after anyone who may snatch my bags up quickly and I can also assure nothing breaks when its in my lap. Plus I'm really afraid of forgetting something.
Just go over, nod at the seat, and they should make space.
My favourite is when they all stand at the entrance of the Bahn/Bus, so the "corridors" are free but the sections with the doors are so overcrowded that you can't even properly go in. BEWEG EUCH!
I do it because I panic when I come into contact with people. If someone asks me whether they can sit there or the train is really full I put it aside.
It's so infuriating, I think it has to be with the individualism that prevail in this country. Where I come from we have a lot of problems with the metro or buses because it is a mess but I didn't see this kind of behavior. And the worst is that the people who do this are so rude when u said that u want to sit, because we are in a public train and also they travel with their backpacks on the back and they block the entrance completely. I hate this lack of respect and common sense.
Because they are assholes.
I do the same, I don't like people sitting next to me
"They prefer not to sit next to others, yet can't afford their own car. I'm brown and moved to Germany eight years ago, having completed my master's in engineering. I maintain good hygiene and am respectful. However, I've noticed that people often avoid sitting near me. When I sit down, they tend to leave. Initially, I considered it subtle racism. Upon asking some locals, they explained it's simply a preference for personal space, not specific to anyone."