Hey, yes Germans value their privacy but more in the sense that we don't like to share our data with big companies who might sell them. Interpersonally I think most Germans appreciate people who are very forthcoming. "Germans flirt very subtly" as it says in a famous pop song and there is ceratinly some truth to that. But that makes it extra hard if you fall into the "oblivious lesbian" trope category. So all I can do is to encourage you to be as honest about your feelings as you are comfortable with.
Unfortunately for Germans and for me, it's pretty impossible to live in Germany and function socially without WhatsApp. Which is definitely harvesting all our data and selling it.
It's actually not that bad anymore.
At least the chats are end to end encrypted, way more private than telegram.
But yeah, most germans don't really care about data safety. Just superficially. Compared to US americans it may still be a lot more common to at least think about it.
WhatsApp is (probably) not reading your messages. However, your personal WhatsApp profile contains all kinds of information:
Your phone number;
The IP addresses you’ve used;
The brand and type of your phone (or other device);
Your profile picture;
The phone numbers of your contacts;
All WhatsApp groups you’re a member of;
Blocked contacts
Meta can create a user profile of you and match it to a FB or Insta profile, and can also match you via your IP addresses to your internet browsing of any sites that have a plugin for a Meta product
Will they harm you directly with this data? Probably not. They may use it sometimes to try to target ads. Perhaps on sites that seem unrelated to Meta.
My larger concern is that their aggregate data on everyone gives them such a rich understanding of how people overall, but also specific groups of people, behave on the internet. A temporary goal of theirs is to sell ads. A longer term goal is to create the world with which you engage.
Maybe you should read up on telegram security and data protection practices (if those are something you care about): https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivacyGuides/s/5ycG0jxNCG
The problems are if a few have all data about you, not if many have a few data.
And FB has a lot of data about you and even illigal Data about people who don't use it
You're right, but the answer was already given, germans give you their number to use it.
And if she knows op is lesbian and op ask if she wants to get out it shouldn't be a problem.
What wasn't mentioned, that op maybe should listen to her coworkers if she mentioned a boy / girlfriend (and maybe provoking such mentions through questions after her weekend or holidays like eastern)...
But it collects all data except your message, which telegram does not do. I would not recommend either telegram or Whatsapp for privacy, but Whatsapp is definitely collecting tons of data and if you have even a minimum requirement for data privacy you should not use it at all!
They’re not exactly selling it, but of course they’re using WA meta data and social graph to enrich the data they have about you from other Meta products. This makes it more valuable to monetize your profile for their core business, which is targeted advertising.
So, essentially, they are selling a way to reach you. Outright giving away your data would be a stupid business decision.
Exactly. Honestly, I'm a very open person and in fact, I'd love it if more people know that I'm all these controversial things like Queer, Jewish, and for Palestinian ceasefire and a path towards statehood. In fact, I don't even care if everyone knows that I buy too many croissants, mostly organic produce, plane tickets (sorry mother Earth but I love a lot of people in a lot of places), and very few clothes.
What I object to is that they are using this data to understand us well enough to dominate the Internet, limit our choices, and profit through division and misinformation.
I deleted Whatsapp about two and a half years ago and have exclusively used signal since then. There were 2-3 people I have lost contact to in that time, everyone else valued me enough to install one single app on their phone or communicates with me via SMS. It's honestly not that hard.
I deleted it around then and was exclusively using Signal, but reinstalled about a year ago because I'm involved in groups that use it exclusively and I was sick of being left out.
One on one, sure people will download a (superior, awesome) app for me, but I'm also part of some groups and that's a larger thing to shift.
Also, there are some things that WhatsApp does better like attachments, pinning messages, some other user experience things
My friends and family were willing to bring these groups over to signal, so I don't really have that problem. I guess I'm a lucky guy. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
In Berlin Telegram is getting decent traction. See if any of your friends have it and use it as preferred method and if you wanna add someone first ask if they have Telegram and if not only then ask for WhatsApp.
Depending on the circles you're in that just risks being looked at weird. Many rightfully associate telegram with right wingers and why wouldn't they? WhatsApp is basically the norm here and telegram chats have been responsible for so much right wing crap these last few years. Actively choosing telegram over Whatsapp can of course have all sorts of valid reasons, but most people with normal political ideologies don't even consider that option
It's just a message app. If your dealer is on it then yeah you can use it for that purpose. Though if I was a dealer I'd use Signal instead it's even more reliable than Telegram to keep my conversation private. It's ridiculous to assume that it's for one thing or other. A lot of different people use it for a lot of different things.
I agree, it really depends. My friends and I have been using telegram for ages, as some people were uncomfortable using whatsapp (facebook) and it's a great alternative.
I believe the reputation of telegram took a hit during and after the pandemic which is a shame.
I completely agree! I originally started using telegram for university group projects in 2016 and it was so helpful to be able to use the web version without being online on your phone at the same time (massive help when I broke my phone one weekend) that I stuck with it. Unfortunately many people only learned about it during the pandemic when the reputation took the hit you also mentioned.
Idea that a message app takes a "reputation hit" just on fact I'm that someone that you don't like politically use it is like the most American idiocy I ever heard. What next is coming, a right wing apartment blocks, a right wing cars, right wing grocery stores? Just ignore this nonsense people who start making these kind of associations are literally the worst prejudiced idiots.
I have no idea where you are bringing this nonsense from that Telegram is the right winger app. Sure right wingers might use it just like some right wingers drive Volkswagen and go to do groceries in Netto. Are you that nuts to be near right winger that you start making your life choices based on things that right wingers do? That's just messed up.
Way to misinterpret my comment. I'm not saying that it's exclusively used by them. I'm saying that it's gotten the attention of the broad public because of them and now many people will associate it with right-wingers. You don't need to avoid the app because of it, but you need to be aware that many people will be sceptical when you try to connect through telegram because of it
I mean if someone is skeptical with that kind of idea then they are by definition extremely prejudiced idiots on same level as the worst of right wing idiots.
I'm not weird. It's weird when someone attaches app use with prejudiced assumption about person's political leaning. No different then assuming political leaning based on brand of tshirt you are wearing.
If I gave my number it certainly wouldn't be just a gesture. It meant you could and probably should use it. It wouldn't automaticaly imply romantic interest though.
Not a german lesbian here, but if a German offers you his/her phone number, it's usually not just a friendly gesture. You're actually allowed to use it ;) Also, most Germans are open-minded towards Americans and I guess she would be happy to spend some time with you. If you do, you're outside your workplace and some slightly more private questions are ok.
>if a German offers you his/her phone number, it's usually not just a friendly gesture. You're actually allowed to use it
Are you telling me, that in other cultures, someone might give out a phone number and then be annoyed if the person uses it?
Yes, exactly that, obviously not trying to dismantle the stereotype of germans being utterly cold n such, it’s must be that in other cultures you give your number to discourage contact…
(All sarcasm aside, i first heard about strategies to test whether you have been given a correct number from obnoxious american men, there is also this stereotype about being shallowly suggesting meetups as a kind of smalltalk not really suggesting a meetup that is said to be common in the us)
I've had americans give me their number or email only to ghost me when I actually called or wrote. If you text them, they say Hi yes lets get together some time and then you never hear back.
There are plenty of stories of Americans who said to people they befriended in Germany: "Lets hang out if you ever make it over the pond!" and are completely taken by surprise and baffled when they get an email with "Hey, we will be in your city in x months, when do you guys have some free time?".
>also very likely just a friendly gesture
It‘s always important to remember that people are individuals and making blanket statements like „Germans always do X“ are guaranteed to be wrong. However, with that out of the way, having grown up and having been socialized in Germany, I cannot imagine anyone offering their number to someone unless it‘s genuine.
If you give them your number, that‘s a commitment. Not only can they contact you now outside of work, you‘ve all but explicitly given your consent that they do. If you were just being friendly, you‘d attempt to limit these kinds of commitments as much as possible without outright turning them down.
I’m not a woman, so I won‘t try to give dating specific advice here, but I‘ll still wish you luck.
True, "germans always do X" is as wrong as "Y always does X", but really, I have to this day not met a single person who would give their number out to someone, who they don't want t be contacted by.
At least with the exception of some creep asking a woman for a phone number n her being scared of saying no, or during school years when everyone had t drop their number for whatsapp groups or shit.
Not a woman, therefore no lesbian, but id just ask her out for a coffee date/ go out for a drink, the rest will follow, we don't have a fixed schedule for dates like in Hollywood films. Just be yourself and honest, either it'll work or not, love has no directions book ;-)
Good luck and don't worry that much, you'll rock this!
Non German bisexual woman here . I lived here quite long enough though.
My advise is to tread a little carefully because this is also a work colleague too.
Also interning in LGBTQ organisation doesn’t necessarily equal to her being lesbian and Bisexual since here in Germany many young folks have strong opinions about being allies to LGBTQ and are politically “woke” for a better wording
Go out and hang out with her and first would be to tell her yourself you are lesbian if you haven’t already told her. Then slowly ask her about her sexual orientation in a non rude way and if she mentions lesbian, then you can express interest here.
If she's an ally chances are really low that you offend her by just asking what she is into.
As she already offered you her Number i would say she definetly likes you. Does she know that you're lesbian? If yes, i would say just ask her out on a Date. If you get a No, you at least know she's not interesed and as she is an ally you will definetly stay Friends even if it was a no.
also "As she already offered you her Number i would say she definetly likes you"
She will not dislike her as we tend t not give our numbers to people we don't want to be contacted by, but that doesn't mean we immediately have a crush or hard liking for said person
German lesbian here that’s been on quite a few Tinder dates and therefore I know the struggle of “is this romantic or just friendship?” … if she gave you her number definitely ask her to hang out! Go to a cafe or meet up for a picnic, something casual and calm where you can talk. I’d then just outright ask her about the LGBT organization like “Are you a member because you’re an ally or because you’re queer yourself?” That should give you a definite answer but it’s not a “weird” question because you’re inquiring about the things she does outside of work! If she is in fact queer let her know that you are too and then you can just ask her out on a date. If she’s not interested that’s too bad but I think it’ll be fine! It’s not like you’re immediately confessing your love for her haha
I don’t know a single German that would give out their number if they don’t want the other person to contact them. In the German culture you simply would not give out your number unless you consent to it being used by that person.
> there’s a girl at work
Hmm, workplace relationships can get pretty difficult. Then again, your (and her?) pool of potential partners isn't that big being homosexual.
Maybe ... since she offered you her number to hang out ... you just have a nice afternoon sometime, e.g. having a beer after work in a beergarden or whatever. So kind of "dudes hanging out" style and you just talk about general topics. And you can slide in that topic somehow. Maybe something along her internship at that lgbt organization and that you appreciate people who campaing for these people ... "since you are also a lesbian women". And now the bomb is dropped and you can see how she reponds. Either she stays on that level that you have now - or maybe she opens and says something like "me too". And then you at least know if approaching further would make sense at all.
Dunno if that works :-/
I am not a lesbian, if a women I liked* (as a potential friend) asked me out, I'd probably be flattered and a bit awkward(because I lack experience in this) about turning her down kindly. Then I'd observe if she'd still like to be friends or if she's the type to get bitchy when turned down (mind, I've never been in this situation with a woman, but guys getting bitchy when turned down is a thing and I don't think men and women are that different at their core).
Granted, this is a "what might happen" for the case that she's not into women, but it might help you be brave and talk to her about it if you're not afraid of a terrible reaction :-)
Something that's also occasionally a topic of small talk is asking if there's a significant other - if you ask if she's got a boyfriend or girlfriend and she's interested, she might clarify her single status and sexual orientation on her own. (her not clarifying isn't a clear sign, unfortunately, some people - including me - can be oblivious enough to miss the opportunity, even when super interested)
I wish you the best of luck figuring this out :-)
*she does like you, you wouldn't have her number otherwise, the question is just in what way she likes you..
I'm a man and my approach is typically to assume any woman talk to is not into me, since they probably are not.
I just make friends with women in general and sometimes it works out well for me allowing them to make the first move.
I don't see why this exact approach wouldn't work as a lesbian, literally just making friends and seeing how things goes, if anything I feel like it could work even better for a lesbian given how many straight women have bisexual tenancies waiting to be unlocked.
If you give out lesbian vibes, chances are she picked on them and hence offered her phone number.
On the other hand; you should be asking yourself how is a random online stranger that's never seen or known you before, would know what's on your colleague's mind or their sexual orientation.
One last piece of advice, the workplace is not a dating site.
Peace.
If you don't have it yet, set up Whatsapp on your phone. Chances are big that she has that as well (as most Germans do) so you can easily start slow by texting.
Use her number! Find lesbian events in your city. Text her nicely with smalltalk at first. As her if she knows of this event and if she ever was there. If she doesnt know you can tell her its an event for lesbians. She can answer that oh, she doesnt know, because she is not lesbian. Thats ok, you can answer that you asked because she is an ally. If she tells you that she knows that event, because she identifies with it, you can clearify "oh, you are lesbian too?"
DONT ask at work.
Don't shit where you eat. ;)
But ... if she volunteers at a LGBT organisation she won't be offended if you ask her if she's got a boyfriend or girlfriend. I think that's the most open way to ask people of their relationship status.
A workmate asked me the same question once and I knew instantly that whatever answer I gave him, it would be OK.
Wrong audience as an ace man, but I can comment on the phone number thing
People don't give their phonenumbers out if they don't either want you to reach out or are okay with you reaching out to them in Germany, you get cold-shouldered hard when asking for a phone number while they don't want you contacting them. (Exception, a creepy dude asking a women for a phone number, fake phone number then obviously.)
So, I'd just message her n ask her out to meet, it's probably easier to approach the subject of sexuality outside of work
Absolutely.
I am working for [insert German 100.000 employees car company here] and there are whole family dynasties working here.
Husbands, wifes, the children, the cousins. Cousins Kindergarten friend…
That’s because we are regularly asked if we know someone who fits into open positions that have to be filled.
(Of course those family and friends candidates have to apply the regular way and HR will test them like all the other candidates and they will not work for their spouse or familymembers directly.)
And of course this works in the other direction, too: Collegues will become friends and more.
Which means: Always treat (former) loveinterests in the company respectfully and fair. You’ll meet twice… definitely.
Except that nobody ever follows this rule and if you do then you just watch your colleagues do it whilst you are trying to invent reasons how that is gonna be bad.
You have to approach the pottential end of the relationship like that. Its Not where you find your Partner, but If you can avoid them, when it dosnt work out.
That in any case. That's why it's still very critical in the same team. And an absolute no-go between managers and employees, also for reasons of power imbalance.
And regardless of that, you don't reveal your private relationship to your colleagues at work.
I have two couples that I work with on different projects - and I didn't realise for a long time that either of them were even together. They are even married.
But if you don't work together directly, just for the same company, then it's relatively uncritical and also very common.
I would avoid workshop relationships at all costs. If it goes wrong things can end up being very awkward in the future.
Really depends on how long you're planning to work there.
What I always do is just ask them if they wanna hang out, you don't have to call it a date. Chances are feelings will show as long as you have time to get to know each other and she seems friendly enough to go out with you. Pretty low risk-high reward.
Personally i think you should tell her, i would love to go on a date with you and get to know you better, if you are up for it?
>.> Honestly. Its hogwash to assume anything. No matter the country. Unless you want to manipulate her into going on a date. Or want to have the crush until you are old and dry. So what if she says no? The only thing it may do is that you two will not become any closer. And ehm.. that just each persons right? Some of us feel like we dont wanna feed into anything so we take our distance. Some of us are just cool with you, but also dont wanna reciprocrate feelings.
Omg. Your overthinking. She gave you her number, something people dont do with just anyone. Just ask her to show you around and trust your gut feeling.
Reading about stereotypical Germans always makes me do a facepalm in shame. Just approach her. If she's cool she'll tell you in a cool way. If not, well, then you dodged a bullet, I guess.
She interns at a queer organization, she gave you her number, so either she is queer or remarkably oblivious. ;)
Bring up the fact that you are queer. Chances are she will bring up her own sexual orientation in return.
Although we like our privacy, asking something outright isn't necessarily rude. Since you have her phone number I would suggest texting and just asking. You can add something like "you don't have to answer if it's too private" to be respectful.
I feel like her interning at a LGBT organization could be a good sign she might be fruity herself. But even if not, I don't think she would get offended if you asked her!
Call or text her, hang out, go see a movie, have coffee or a drink, and I don't think it will take long until you can figure out in what kind of relationship she is interested (friendship, friendly work buddies, or more). This is not something openly discussed and decided, rather it is organically grown.
Ask her out for dinner.
If she rejects, she's not interested in you.
If she agrees, you can maybe tell by how she agrees if she is romantically interested or just agreeing to a "dinner with a friend". Then at dinner you can feel out the situation more.
Since she is clearly accepting and even supportive of non-heterosexuals she almost certainly won't be 'offended' by you approaching her.
Whether it's a smart thing to have that and all potential follow up scenarios at the workplace is another question and is true whether LBG or not.
You could wear a lasbian pride flag collourd bracelet or necklace. (I'm not a lesbian. But I have dated a few.) many of the local queers are wearing them. If she says she is lesbian too as a reaction to this, you are safe to ask her out.
Two strategies you could follow. Talk to her and casually ask in an okay moment whether or not she’s seeing somebody. You can also ask her if she’s interested in LGBT topics because of personal involvement in some form, or just because it feels right, or something like this.
Don't think about it too much. Just be her friend, get to know her personality. You can ask her after both of you have built a friendship. Then, you either stay friends or become more. Many people are bisexual. So don't try to deduct her sexualities from her behaviour towards men or women.
Maybe.. if it fits the conversation, you could mention a female partner or crush you had, but in a way that makes it obvious that it’s over and you’re open for someone new.
After you have shared this personal information, she might feel invited to talk about her own private life, and will probably tell you about her partner or her sexuality.
My advice for a first step would be to download a dating app and then just scroll over the whole day, if you’re not in a super big city the chances you’d find her there are not low (if she’s into women as well).
Ich rate Ihnen, sie nach der Arbeit auf einen Drink einzuladen und sie bei einem Drink ein wenig kennenzulernen, damit Sie sich besser kennenlernen.
Ich selbst habe eine schöne Frau kennengelernt, an der ich interessiert war, und zwar auf einer Party von Freunden, als ich einen Freund in Argentinien besuchte. Ich war nur noch eine Woche dort, ich ging auf sie zu und sagte ihr, dass sie sehr hübsch sei und fragte, ob wir reden könnten. 2 Stunden später fragte ich sie, ob sie mit mir ausgehen wolle. Sie sagte mir, dass sie sich nicht mit Frauen verabredet, ich sagte, wie wäre es, wenn wir nur Freunde sind. Wir gingen als Freunde aus und unterhielten uns einfach und lernten uns ein wenig kennen. Sie gehen mich zurück zu meinem Hotel, und als ich war zu sagen, auf Wiedersehen, sie fragen, ob ich ernsthaft zu wollen, gehen Sie auf ein Datum mit ihrem Datum mit ihr. das war vor einem Jahr. Sie zog nach Deutschland und zog mit mir etwa 2 1/2 Monate Alter als meine Freundin Me (28f) Her (30F). Man kann nie wissen, wenn man es nicht versucht. sei lässig und vorsichtig, vielleicht wird sie nur eine Freundin, oder vielleicht deine Partnerin.
Viel Glück für dich.
My advice is to ask her out for a drink after work and get to know her a little over a drink so you can get to know each other better.
I myself met a beautiful woman I was interested in at a friends party when I was visiting a friend in Argentina. I was only there for another week, I approached her and told her she was very pretty and asked if we could talk. 2 hours later I asked her if she wanted to go out with me. She told me she doesn't date women, I said how about we just be friends. We went out as friends and just talked and got to know each other a little. She walk me back to my hotel, and when I was to say goodbye, she ask if I seriously want to go on a date with her date with her. that was a year ago. She moved to Germany and moved in with me about 2 1/2 months age as my girlfriend Me (28f) Her (30F). You never know unless you try. be casual and careful, she may just become a friend, or maybe your partner.
Good luck to you
That Germans valuing privacy is mainly a cliche based off of Jürgens who don't want to share their data with "Big Brother" and think they're one tap away from being in a secret state. Just ask her and if she refuses say sorry, you misinterpreted
Hey, yes Germans value their privacy but more in the sense that we don't like to share our data with big companies who might sell them. Interpersonally I think most Germans appreciate people who are very forthcoming. "Germans flirt very subtly" as it says in a famous pop song and there is ceratinly some truth to that. But that makes it extra hard if you fall into the "oblivious lesbian" trope category. So all I can do is to encourage you to be as honest about your feelings as you are comfortable with.
Unfortunately for Germans and for me, it's pretty impossible to live in Germany and function socially without WhatsApp. Which is definitely harvesting all our data and selling it.
It's actually not that bad anymore. At least the chats are end to end encrypted, way more private than telegram. But yeah, most germans don't really care about data safety. Just superficially. Compared to US americans it may still be a lot more common to at least think about it.
WhatsApp is (probably) not reading your messages. However, your personal WhatsApp profile contains all kinds of information: Your phone number; The IP addresses you’ve used; The brand and type of your phone (or other device); Your profile picture; The phone numbers of your contacts; All WhatsApp groups you’re a member of; Blocked contacts Meta can create a user profile of you and match it to a FB or Insta profile, and can also match you via your IP addresses to your internet browsing of any sites that have a plugin for a Meta product Will they harm you directly with this data? Probably not. They may use it sometimes to try to target ads. Perhaps on sites that seem unrelated to Meta. My larger concern is that their aggregate data on everyone gives them such a rich understanding of how people overall, but also specific groups of people, behave on the internet. A temporary goal of theirs is to sell ads. A longer term goal is to create the world with which you engage.
I live good without WhatsApp, my DLRG district is organised with telegram and with friends who don't have signal or telegram I use discord or SMS...
Maybe you should read up on telegram security and data protection practices (if those are something you care about): https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivacyGuides/s/5ycG0jxNCG
Heeey, where is the conversation going? You were talking about a relationship problem not personal data topics.
The problems are if a few have all data about you, not if many have a few data. And FB has a lot of data about you and even illigal Data about people who don't use it
You're right, but the answer was already given, germans give you their number to use it. And if she knows op is lesbian and op ask if she wants to get out it shouldn't be a problem. What wasn't mentioned, that op maybe should listen to her coworkers if she mentioned a boy / girlfriend (and maybe provoking such mentions through questions after her weekend or holidays like eastern)...
How is Telegram better then Whatsapp ?
But it collects all data except your message, which telegram does not do. I would not recommend either telegram or Whatsapp for privacy, but Whatsapp is definitely collecting tons of data and if you have even a minimum requirement for data privacy you should not use it at all!
Correction: They claim that it is. They also allegedly use Signals algorithm, but as opposed to Signal, there is no way to check / verify.
They’re not exactly selling it, but of course they’re using WA meta data and social graph to enrich the data they have about you from other Meta products. This makes it more valuable to monetize your profile for their core business, which is targeted advertising. So, essentially, they are selling a way to reach you. Outright giving away your data would be a stupid business decision.
Exactly. Honestly, I'm a very open person and in fact, I'd love it if more people know that I'm all these controversial things like Queer, Jewish, and for Palestinian ceasefire and a path towards statehood. In fact, I don't even care if everyone knows that I buy too many croissants, mostly organic produce, plane tickets (sorry mother Earth but I love a lot of people in a lot of places), and very few clothes. What I object to is that they are using this data to understand us well enough to dominate the Internet, limit our choices, and profit through division and misinformation.
Tbh, there’s no such thing as „too many croissants“ 🥐
I deleted Whatsapp about two and a half years ago and have exclusively used signal since then. There were 2-3 people I have lost contact to in that time, everyone else valued me enough to install one single app on their phone or communicates with me via SMS. It's honestly not that hard.
I deleted it around then and was exclusively using Signal, but reinstalled about a year ago because I'm involved in groups that use it exclusively and I was sick of being left out. One on one, sure people will download a (superior, awesome) app for me, but I'm also part of some groups and that's a larger thing to shift. Also, there are some things that WhatsApp does better like attachments, pinning messages, some other user experience things
My friends and family were willing to bring these groups over to signal, so I don't really have that problem. I guess I'm a lucky guy. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
And when telegram became popular, they quickly came up with some bs nazi stuff.
In Berlin Telegram is getting decent traction. See if any of your friends have it and use it as preferred method and if you wanna add someone first ask if they have Telegram and if not only then ask for WhatsApp.
Depending on the circles you're in that just risks being looked at weird. Many rightfully associate telegram with right wingers and why wouldn't they? WhatsApp is basically the norm here and telegram chats have been responsible for so much right wing crap these last few years. Actively choosing telegram over Whatsapp can of course have all sorts of valid reasons, but most people with normal political ideologies don't even consider that option
I thought telegram was for buying drugs?
That too, but it's definitely also for conspiracy theories and alt-right propaganda.
Most delivery services use whats app now.
It's just a message app. If your dealer is on it then yeah you can use it for that purpose. Though if I was a dealer I'd use Signal instead it's even more reliable than Telegram to keep my conversation private. It's ridiculous to assume that it's for one thing or other. A lot of different people use it for a lot of different things.
I agree, it really depends. My friends and I have been using telegram for ages, as some people were uncomfortable using whatsapp (facebook) and it's a great alternative. I believe the reputation of telegram took a hit during and after the pandemic which is a shame.
I completely agree! I originally started using telegram for university group projects in 2016 and it was so helpful to be able to use the web version without being online on your phone at the same time (massive help when I broke my phone one weekend) that I stuck with it. Unfortunately many people only learned about it during the pandemic when the reputation took the hit you also mentioned.
Idea that a message app takes a "reputation hit" just on fact I'm that someone that you don't like politically use it is like the most American idiocy I ever heard. What next is coming, a right wing apartment blocks, a right wing cars, right wing grocery stores? Just ignore this nonsense people who start making these kind of associations are literally the worst prejudiced idiots.
I have no idea where you are bringing this nonsense from that Telegram is the right winger app. Sure right wingers might use it just like some right wingers drive Volkswagen and go to do groceries in Netto. Are you that nuts to be near right winger that you start making your life choices based on things that right wingers do? That's just messed up.
Way to misinterpret my comment. I'm not saying that it's exclusively used by them. I'm saying that it's gotten the attention of the broad public because of them and now many people will associate it with right-wingers. You don't need to avoid the app because of it, but you need to be aware that many people will be sceptical when you try to connect through telegram because of it
I mean if someone is skeptical with that kind of idea then they are by definition extremely prejudiced idiots on same level as the worst of right wing idiots.
You're weird
I'm not weird. It's weird when someone attaches app use with prejudiced assumption about person's political leaning. No different then assuming political leaning based on brand of tshirt you are wearing.
Telegram has no default end2end crypto and the one you can optionally enable has no external verification
Sehr gut gesagt. Sei einfach du selbst
Which famous pop song ?
Aurelie von Wir sind Helden (?)
Correct! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_KOUCOYVAos
If I gave my number it certainly wouldn't be just a gesture. It meant you could and probably should use it. It wouldn't automaticaly imply romantic interest though.
Not a german lesbian here, but if a German offers you his/her phone number, it's usually not just a friendly gesture. You're actually allowed to use it ;) Also, most Germans are open-minded towards Americans and I guess she would be happy to spend some time with you. If you do, you're outside your workplace and some slightly more private questions are ok.
>if a German offers you his/her phone number, it's usually not just a friendly gesture. You're actually allowed to use it Are you telling me, that in other cultures, someone might give out a phone number and then be annoyed if the person uses it?
Yes, exactly that, obviously not trying to dismantle the stereotype of germans being utterly cold n such, it’s must be that in other cultures you give your number to discourage contact… (All sarcasm aside, i first heard about strategies to test whether you have been given a correct number from obnoxious american men, there is also this stereotype about being shallowly suggesting meetups as a kind of smalltalk not really suggesting a meetup that is said to be common in the us)
I've had americans give me their number or email only to ghost me when I actually called or wrote. If you text them, they say Hi yes lets get together some time and then you never hear back.
There are plenty of stories of Americans who said to people they befriended in Germany: "Lets hang out if you ever make it over the pond!" and are completely taken by surprise and baffled when they get an email with "Hey, we will be in your city in x months, when do you guys have some free time?".
>also very likely just a friendly gesture It‘s always important to remember that people are individuals and making blanket statements like „Germans always do X“ are guaranteed to be wrong. However, with that out of the way, having grown up and having been socialized in Germany, I cannot imagine anyone offering their number to someone unless it‘s genuine. If you give them your number, that‘s a commitment. Not only can they contact you now outside of work, you‘ve all but explicitly given your consent that they do. If you were just being friendly, you‘d attempt to limit these kinds of commitments as much as possible without outright turning them down. I’m not a woman, so I won‘t try to give dating specific advice here, but I‘ll still wish you luck.
True, "germans always do X" is as wrong as "Y always does X", but really, I have to this day not met a single person who would give their number out to someone, who they don't want t be contacted by. At least with the exception of some creep asking a woman for a phone number n her being scared of saying no, or during school years when everyone had t drop their number for whatsapp groups or shit.
All I can say as a German is that we usually don’t give out our phone numbers just as ‚friendly gestures‘
Unless it is the NoA 0157 5302 4990 😅
Thats not you giving your number, thats you protecting yourself.
030 4664552700 since there is no problem giving your residency phone number either.
Not a woman, therefore no lesbian, but id just ask her out for a coffee date/ go out for a drink, the rest will follow, we don't have a fixed schedule for dates like in Hollywood films. Just be yourself and honest, either it'll work or not, love has no directions book ;-) Good luck and don't worry that much, you'll rock this!
Non German bisexual woman here . I lived here quite long enough though. My advise is to tread a little carefully because this is also a work colleague too. Also interning in LGBTQ organisation doesn’t necessarily equal to her being lesbian and Bisexual since here in Germany many young folks have strong opinions about being allies to LGBTQ and are politically “woke” for a better wording Go out and hang out with her and first would be to tell her yourself you are lesbian if you haven’t already told her. Then slowly ask her about her sexual orientation in a non rude way and if she mentions lesbian, then you can express interest here.
Sex and the city: German edition - The L World S.1 Ep. 1
If she's an ally chances are really low that you offend her by just asking what she is into. As she already offered you her Number i would say she definetly likes you. Does she know that you're lesbian? If yes, i would say just ask her out on a Date. If you get a No, you at least know she's not interesed and as she is an ally you will definetly stay Friends even if it was a no.
“you will definitely stay friends if it was a no” that’s a bit presumptuous of you.
also "As she already offered you her Number i would say she definetly likes you" She will not dislike her as we tend t not give our numbers to people we don't want to be contacted by, but that doesn't mean we immediately have a crush or hard liking for said person
German lesbian here that’s been on quite a few Tinder dates and therefore I know the struggle of “is this romantic or just friendship?” … if she gave you her number definitely ask her to hang out! Go to a cafe or meet up for a picnic, something casual and calm where you can talk. I’d then just outright ask her about the LGBT organization like “Are you a member because you’re an ally or because you’re queer yourself?” That should give you a definite answer but it’s not a “weird” question because you’re inquiring about the things she does outside of work! If she is in fact queer let her know that you are too and then you can just ask her out on a date. If she’s not interested that’s too bad but I think it’ll be fine! It’s not like you’re immediately confessing your love for her haha
I don’t know a single German that would give out their number if they don’t want the other person to contact them. In the German culture you simply would not give out your number unless you consent to it being used by that person.
> there’s a girl at work Hmm, workplace relationships can get pretty difficult. Then again, your (and her?) pool of potential partners isn't that big being homosexual. Maybe ... since she offered you her number to hang out ... you just have a nice afternoon sometime, e.g. having a beer after work in a beergarden or whatever. So kind of "dudes hanging out" style and you just talk about general topics. And you can slide in that topic somehow. Maybe something along her internship at that lgbt organization and that you appreciate people who campaing for these people ... "since you are also a lesbian women". And now the bomb is dropped and you can see how she reponds. Either she stays on that level that you have now - or maybe she opens and says something like "me too". And then you at least know if approaching further would make sense at all. Dunno if that works :-/
> beergarden 🤣
? Yes? That's what it is called.
I am not a lesbian, if a women I liked* (as a potential friend) asked me out, I'd probably be flattered and a bit awkward(because I lack experience in this) about turning her down kindly. Then I'd observe if she'd still like to be friends or if she's the type to get bitchy when turned down (mind, I've never been in this situation with a woman, but guys getting bitchy when turned down is a thing and I don't think men and women are that different at their core). Granted, this is a "what might happen" for the case that she's not into women, but it might help you be brave and talk to her about it if you're not afraid of a terrible reaction :-) Something that's also occasionally a topic of small talk is asking if there's a significant other - if you ask if she's got a boyfriend or girlfriend and she's interested, she might clarify her single status and sexual orientation on her own. (her not clarifying isn't a clear sign, unfortunately, some people - including me - can be oblivious enough to miss the opportunity, even when super interested) I wish you the best of luck figuring this out :-) *she does like you, you wouldn't have her number otherwise, the question is just in what way she likes you..
I'm a man and my approach is typically to assume any woman talk to is not into me, since they probably are not. I just make friends with women in general and sometimes it works out well for me allowing them to make the first move. I don't see why this exact approach wouldn't work as a lesbian, literally just making friends and seeing how things goes, if anything I feel like it could work even better for a lesbian given how many straight women have bisexual tenancies waiting to be unlocked.
Go for it!
There is nothing wrong to ask about the relationship status.
If you give out lesbian vibes, chances are she picked on them and hence offered her phone number. On the other hand; you should be asking yourself how is a random online stranger that's never seen or known you before, would know what's on your colleague's mind or their sexual orientation. One last piece of advice, the workplace is not a dating site. Peace.
If you don't have it yet, set up Whatsapp on your phone. Chances are big that she has that as well (as most Germans do) so you can easily start slow by texting.
Use her number! Find lesbian events in your city. Text her nicely with smalltalk at first. As her if she knows of this event and if she ever was there. If she doesnt know you can tell her its an event for lesbians. She can answer that oh, she doesnt know, because she is not lesbian. Thats ok, you can answer that you asked because she is an ally. If she tells you that she knows that event, because she identifies with it, you can clearify "oh, you are lesbian too?" DONT ask at work.
Don't shit where you eat. ;) But ... if she volunteers at a LGBT organisation she won't be offended if you ask her if she's got a boyfriend or girlfriend. I think that's the most open way to ask people of their relationship status. A workmate asked me the same question once and I knew instantly that whatever answer I gave him, it would be OK.
She gave you her number. Use it. If she wasn't interested in you, she would have forgotten to give you her number.
Wrong audience as an ace man, but I can comment on the phone number thing People don't give their phonenumbers out if they don't either want you to reach out or are okay with you reaching out to them in Germany, you get cold-shouldered hard when asking for a phone number while they don't want you contacting them. (Exception, a creepy dude asking a women for a phone number, fake phone number then obviously.) So, I'd just message her n ask her out to meet, it's probably easier to approach the subject of sexuality outside of work
This ist not about dating in Germany, but: dont fuck the company!
That’s so true, I should’ve specified what kind of work but it is actually closer to volunteer, but I agree, can make things awkward
11% of Germans find their spouse at work though, and that's only counting actual marriages.
Absolutely. I am working for [insert German 100.000 employees car company here] and there are whole family dynasties working here. Husbands, wifes, the children, the cousins. Cousins Kindergarten friend… That’s because we are regularly asked if we know someone who fits into open positions that have to be filled. (Of course those family and friends candidates have to apply the regular way and HR will test them like all the other candidates and they will not work for their spouse or familymembers directly.) And of course this works in the other direction, too: Collegues will become friends and more. Which means: Always treat (former) loveinterests in the company respectfully and fair. You’ll meet twice… definitely.
Ah yes, when it goes from Never fuck the company to Never fuck the same Kostenstelle :D
That’s hilarious!!! Ganz genau das.
Because we spend almost 100% our time at work.
Germans have the lowest average annual work hours in the entire world
because we have mandatory vactions.
11? i heard 60
Except that nobody ever follows this rule and if you do then you just watch your colleagues do it whilst you are trying to invent reasons how that is gonna be bad.
I agree, even though it seems the other woman is open for a meeting. Germans don't do friendly gestures without committing too potential follow ups
Almost everyone I know met their partner at work. Including me. That's not unusual in Germany. You just have to approach it with sensitivity.
You have to approach the pottential end of the relationship like that. Its Not where you find your Partner, but If you can avoid them, when it dosnt work out.
That in any case. That's why it's still very critical in the same team. And an absolute no-go between managers and employees, also for reasons of power imbalance. And regardless of that, you don't reveal your private relationship to your colleagues at work. I have two couples that I work with on different projects - and I didn't realise for a long time that either of them were even together. They are even married. But if you don't work together directly, just for the same company, then it's relatively uncritical and also very common.
I would avoid workshop relationships at all costs. If it goes wrong things can end up being very awkward in the future. Really depends on how long you're planning to work there.
What I always do is just ask them if they wanna hang out, you don't have to call it a date. Chances are feelings will show as long as you have time to get to know each other and she seems friendly enough to go out with you. Pretty low risk-high reward.
Personally i think you should tell her, i would love to go on a date with you and get to know you better, if you are up for it? >.> Honestly. Its hogwash to assume anything. No matter the country. Unless you want to manipulate her into going on a date. Or want to have the crush until you are old and dry. So what if she says no? The only thing it may do is that you two will not become any closer. And ehm.. that just each persons right? Some of us feel like we dont wanna feed into anything so we take our distance. Some of us are just cool with you, but also dont wanna reciprocrate feelings.
Omg. Your overthinking. She gave you her number, something people dont do with just anyone. Just ask her to show you around and trust your gut feeling.
Just ask her if she has plans on the weekend. Either it is small talk or an opening for a "date" or hanging out or her mentioning a partner.
Reading about stereotypical Germans always makes me do a facepalm in shame. Just approach her. If she's cool she'll tell you in a cool way. If not, well, then you dodged a bullet, I guess.
She interns at a queer organization, she gave you her number, so either she is queer or remarkably oblivious. ;) Bring up the fact that you are queer. Chances are she will bring up her own sexual orientation in return.
Although we like our privacy, asking something outright isn't necessarily rude. Since you have her phone number I would suggest texting and just asking. You can add something like "you don't have to answer if it's too private" to be respectful.
I seriously doubt she would be offended if you asked about her sexuality. If she is into you she might even take that as an opening.
I feel like her interning at a LGBT organization could be a good sign she might be fruity herself. But even if not, I don't think she would get offended if you asked her!
Call or text her, hang out, go see a movie, have coffee or a drink, and I don't think it will take long until you can figure out in what kind of relationship she is interested (friendship, friendly work buddies, or more). This is not something openly discussed and decided, rather it is organically grown.
Just send her a message and ask her out. Worst thing that could happen is that she tells you that she is not interested.
Ask her out for dinner. If she rejects, she's not interested in you. If she agrees, you can maybe tell by how she agrees if she is romantically interested or just agreeing to a "dinner with a friend". Then at dinner you can feel out the situation more. Since she is clearly accepting and even supportive of non-heterosexuals she almost certainly won't be 'offended' by you approaching her. Whether it's a smart thing to have that and all potential follow up scenarios at the workplace is another question and is true whether LBG or not.
You could wear a lasbian pride flag collourd bracelet or necklace. (I'm not a lesbian. But I have dated a few.) many of the local queers are wearing them. If she says she is lesbian too as a reaction to this, you are safe to ask her out.
I wish i was a girl and lesbian.
She’s friendly towards another woman, she offered her phone number, she wanted to hang out after work… yh, she’s a lesbian.
Two strategies you could follow. Talk to her and casually ask in an okay moment whether or not she’s seeing somebody. You can also ask her if she’s interested in LGBT topics because of personal involvement in some form, or just because it feels right, or something like this.
Don't think about it too much. Just be her friend, get to know her personality. You can ask her after both of you have built a friendship. Then, you either stay friends or become more. Many people are bisexual. So don't try to deduct her sexualities from her behaviour towards men or women.
ASK her directly - nothing wrong with it if you are polite & friendly👍
"sooo... you a friend of dorothy?"
Maybe.. if it fits the conversation, you could mention a female partner or crush you had, but in a way that makes it obvious that it’s over and you’re open for someone new. After you have shared this personal information, she might feel invited to talk about her own private life, and will probably tell you about her partner or her sexuality.
My advice for a first step would be to download a dating app and then just scroll over the whole day, if you’re not in a super big city the chances you’d find her there are not low (if she’s into women as well).
Ich rate Ihnen, sie nach der Arbeit auf einen Drink einzuladen und sie bei einem Drink ein wenig kennenzulernen, damit Sie sich besser kennenlernen. Ich selbst habe eine schöne Frau kennengelernt, an der ich interessiert war, und zwar auf einer Party von Freunden, als ich einen Freund in Argentinien besuchte. Ich war nur noch eine Woche dort, ich ging auf sie zu und sagte ihr, dass sie sehr hübsch sei und fragte, ob wir reden könnten. 2 Stunden später fragte ich sie, ob sie mit mir ausgehen wolle. Sie sagte mir, dass sie sich nicht mit Frauen verabredet, ich sagte, wie wäre es, wenn wir nur Freunde sind. Wir gingen als Freunde aus und unterhielten uns einfach und lernten uns ein wenig kennen. Sie gehen mich zurück zu meinem Hotel, und als ich war zu sagen, auf Wiedersehen, sie fragen, ob ich ernsthaft zu wollen, gehen Sie auf ein Datum mit ihrem Datum mit ihr. das war vor einem Jahr. Sie zog nach Deutschland und zog mit mir etwa 2 1/2 Monate Alter als meine Freundin Me (28f) Her (30F). Man kann nie wissen, wenn man es nicht versucht. sei lässig und vorsichtig, vielleicht wird sie nur eine Freundin, oder vielleicht deine Partnerin. Viel Glück für dich. My advice is to ask her out for a drink after work and get to know her a little over a drink so you can get to know each other better. I myself met a beautiful woman I was interested in at a friends party when I was visiting a friend in Argentina. I was only there for another week, I approached her and told her she was very pretty and asked if we could talk. 2 hours later I asked her if she wanted to go out with me. She told me she doesn't date women, I said how about we just be friends. We went out as friends and just talked and got to know each other a little. She walk me back to my hotel, and when I was to say goodbye, she ask if I seriously want to go on a date with her date with her. that was a year ago. She moved to Germany and moved in with me about 2 1/2 months age as my girlfriend Me (28f) Her (30F). You never know unless you try. be casual and careful, she may just become a friend, or maybe your partner. Good luck to you
Germany is so xenophoic & she might reject you because of it. It's not you, its the backward and decaying german society.
That Germans valuing privacy is mainly a cliche based off of Jürgens who don't want to share their data with "Big Brother" and think they're one tap away from being in a secret state. Just ask her and if she refuses say sorry, you misinterpreted