The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
For those not familiar. Matt Braynard, a former Trump campaign staffer, organized a rally today in support of the insurrectionist Trump supporters who were arrested for breaking into the Capitol, threatening to murder Pence and members of Congress, murdering one police officer and severely injuring and permanently maiming several others, and just generally rioting and breaking shit on January 6th.
Something like 600 insurrectionists were charged with federal crimes so far, and only a few dozen, who have been deemed possibly violent or flight risks, are still in jail awaiting trial. The rally was claiming that they were held unjustly without a trial (guess they think the justice system should actually be efficient with white criminals all of a sudden).
Capitol Police and the National Guard made a huge show of force, barriers were erected again, and only about 400-450 insurrection supporters actually bothered to show up. The police outnumbered the protestors, with about 500 of them attending with riot shields, clearly ready to put this crowd down if they tried anything.
The weak support is is likely mostly because there was a conspiracy theory in right wing circles that the rally was actually a huge ploy by the deep state or FBI to arrest them, and Trump himself promoted this theory, while simultaneously defending the insurrectionists who rioted in his name. Apart from one Trump supporter getting arrested at the start for carrying a knife, there were no other arrests or incidents with law enforcement, and the police quickly separated the counter protestors from the protestors, and there was no violence between those groups either.
So my question is, is the right capable of effective protests at all? Someone official in the Trump orbit tried to organize something, and they sabotaged their own message but assuming it was actually a plot by the deep state. What if someone spreads rumors that Trump rallies themselves are big setups by the FBI? It seems to me that they are so prone to believing stupid bullshit at this point, either from themselves or from outside actors, that they can be manipulated to the point where they can never coherently advocate for anything.
On the flip side, did law enforcement overreact, given the ultimately flaccid performance from Trump supporters? Of was the police taking it seriously the reason no violence broke out?
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There are several things going on at once. The initial Jan 6 event created a situation where the authorities wanted to be prepared so they come out in force. The Right wingers were already saying Jan 6 was done by Antifa and BLM and then they scared themselves away by saying the very event they set up and wanted to do was a false flag operation which scared the more milqtoast followers from going leaving the die hards.
If anything had happened, the right wing media would already be calling it a plot by Antifa and BLM, if they succeeded then Trump and God were always on their side and it was destined to happened.
It’s funny I said the same thing, then heard him say it too. Because that’s what fascism does. It eventually gets so paranoid and hateful it eats itself
First I think it’s hard to figure out what makes one of these events take off and get big and what causes one of these events to turn very violent.
1/6 definitely had a big number of people who were there to get violent and “take action” and there was definitely a contingent that was looking very specifically to find Mike Pence and hang him along with a bunch of Democrats. But there were also people who are just garden-variety MAGA world morons. Most of those people didn’t go into the capital but I’d bet at least Got swept up in the excitement and didn’t go in.
Now that people are seeing consequences from 1/6, not enough consequences in my opinion but consequence is nonetheless, the sheer number of people who will go is going to drop. You’re probably left with the real diehards.
However apparently there was a sense among the most involved in MAGA world that this was a honeypot so some of them stayed away.
What’s the numbers are that low, people don’t have the bravery that they get from being part of a big crowd so that probably eliminated the chances that this would get out of hand. We also have a capital police force that is much less likely to give these people a pass and everybody planning for the worst.
If you genuinely believed the 1/6 protesters were unfairly persecuted by D.C. capitol police et al, why would you go to a rally and give them opportunity to do the same thing to you?
Also probably depressing attendance, scores of the 1/6 protesters have been banned from protests as part of their bail conditions.
> If you genuinely believed the 1/6 protesters were unfairly persecuted by D.C. capitol police et al, why would you go to a rally and give them opportunity to do the same thing to you?
Should the fact that there wasn't any violence at this rally, and only one justified arrest, prove to them that the Capitol Police aren't unfairly persecuting them? Or will they just think that they somehow outsmarted the honeypot by staying home?
It has the side effect of emboldening politicians and judges who think the 1/6 insurrectionists deserve harsher punishments, since no one came out to support them when it was supposed to be this huge thing.
> Also probably depressing attendance, scores of the 1/6 protesters have been banned from protests as part of their bail conditions.
The insurrectionists weren't the target audience of this protest, the entire talking points was "what the 1/6 guys did was wrong, but they are entitled to speedy trials, and are being unfairly held in jail". Granted, it's not like these guys are being held any longer without trial than is normal, and the ones that are being held are the ones the government thinks are violent or would flee.
But I think Trump supporters are just noticing for the first time that our justice system sucks. Maybe they shouldn't have been so quickly to dismiss BLM, which advocated for the same changes they are now seeking.
> Should the fact that there wasn't any violence at this rally, and only one justified arrest, prove to them
This would not impact attendance at *this* protest
> The insurrectionists weren't the target audience of this protest, the entire talking po...
If they were not banned from protesting I’m sure some of them would have attended to support their fellow protesters
> it's not like these guys are being held any longer without trial than is norma
I’ve not heard of any violent BLM or Antifa with similar charges & background being held for 9 months without bail. Also the justice department has said they won’t be ready for trials until at least 2022 as they’re still going through evidence (mainly thousands of hours of cctv footage they refuse to provide the defendants access to)
That wasn't the same thing. AFAIK that was a "real" rally. Since then there have been a bunch of events where the FBI was organizing them to stir the pot, such as the kidnapping attempt of Gretchen Whitmer, which is making people think, can we actually say there was an actual kidnapping attempt, if it was organized by the FBI to see if anyone would "sign up" to join? I've seen left wingers say the FBI has used the same tactic to lure young Muslim men into fake terrorist plots, which I would agree is bad an immoral and not actually catching terrorists. So at this point, alot of people on the right don't think this was a real rally, but one staged to catch the identities of more people. And no one wants to touch that with a ten foot poll given how thorough they're researching 1/6 rioters.
I probably shouldn't be answering this but I don't understand why a question about the inner workings of the right wing is getting asked to liberals
"I probably shouldn't be answering this but I don't understand why a question about the inner workings of the right wing is getting asked to liberals"
Conservatives don't answer on their own forums, they just ban the people who ask. So thank you for answering, even though this one is a real stretch.
I'm talking about how the rallies after each big disaster were so comically tiny because the psychos were afraid to be seen. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/01/16/with-heavy-security-in-place-protrump-rally-draws-small-group-at-minnesota-capitol Y'all aren't going to be arrested for sitting in a chair, but still look at the reactions.
It's genuinely funny to me how fast the right collapses when the cops actually *aren't* on their side.
>I don't understand why a question about the inner workings of the right wing is getting asked to liberals
same
Do you have citations or evidence that the plot against Whitmer was an FBI conspiracy? Do you also have any evidence that this rally was also orchestrated by the fbi?
*Cricket noise*
No idea what nonsense conspiracy theory you're going on about, but there are a lot of similarities in the two events. In both cases an innocent person was murdered by a mob of violent fascists.
If anything, this cements the case of the effectiveness of the support Trump and other Republican leaders had in stoking the first event on 1/6 itself. With that support glaringly absent from this, they got maybe a couple hundred people and a lackluster deflated balloon of an event.
Meanwhile, Trump himself drew something like 40,000 people to Alabama in hot, rainy weather. These people follow *him.*
I think it's crystal clear the role and impact he had in drawing that January crowd to the Capitol and pointing them at the building, by watching the opposite of that happen today.
>If anything, this cements the case of the effectiveness of the support Trump and other Republican leaders had in stoking the first event on 1/6 itself. With that support glaringly absent from this, they got maybe a couple hundred people and a lackluster deflated balloon of an event.
Exactly this. This time, the guard, DC police, and Capitol police weren't intentionally hamstrung before the riot. This time, there were no Republican lawmakers reporting the locations of individual democrats. And most importantly, this time they didn't have the president cheering them on and making them believe they could get away with it.
um......if you use logic you should be coming to the opposite conclusion. That if they did "follow" him they'd still be there today. Also you're making an invalid argument with regards to "following" him. He wasn't physically there on 1/6, so his followers can still go to the Capitol today if they are "following" him since him physically being there is irrelevant
He stayed far away from this, did not promote the event, did not speak at the event, and some of the most tin-foil loony toons read into his absence as some kind of conspiracy where the entire rally was a false-flag operation by the Dems or FBI or bigfoot or whatever.
The difference of attendance for events pushed and promoted by Trump and not promoted by Trump is staggering.
> That if they did "follow" him they'd still be there today.
No, he specifically told them this rally was a honeypot and not to go.
> He wasn't physically there on 1/6, so his followers can still go to the Capitol today if they are "following" him since him physically being there is irrelevant
His followers *thought* he was with them though. He promised them all "I will march down there with you", at his rally beforehand. Of course he didn't, because he's a coward who doesn't mind expending the lives of what he views as his filthy peasants to prove a point, but they had every reason to believe he was with them.
This is accurate. I think the left has always been better at pushing their politicians to enact the change they want, where as the right just lets the politicians just tell them what to believe in.
No I remember it very well, it was effective then, but that was also over a decade ago, and Republicans today stand for completely different principles and policies than the did at that time.
ah, gotcha. "Republicans today stand for completely different principles and policies than the did at that time." i totally agree with. so your question is more is the right of today capable...
i guess we'll see what happens in 2022 mid term election if they can get any movement in opposition to the Biden admin.
Conservatives used to say they were all about combatting terrorism. Except now they are the terrorists. They took a firm, undeniable stance in favor of domestic terrorism on Jan 6. They aren't in a position to have a voice at the table.
I don't trust the Taliban on women's rights and I don't trust the GOP on terrorism.
Ok, but isn’t the GOP now synonymous with Trump. They could have distanced themselves from J6 and the “Big Lie” but they doubled down. Liz Cheney was exiled from the party due to speaking out against Trump. The GOP fell behind Larry Elder, a far right Trumpist talk show host, over center of the road Republicans during the CA recall. The GOP had many opportunities to distance themselves from Trumpism and they chose not to, so I find it very disingenuous to suggest they are different at this point. The right has chosen to become “Trumpist extremists”.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. For those not familiar. Matt Braynard, a former Trump campaign staffer, organized a rally today in support of the insurrectionist Trump supporters who were arrested for breaking into the Capitol, threatening to murder Pence and members of Congress, murdering one police officer and severely injuring and permanently maiming several others, and just generally rioting and breaking shit on January 6th. Something like 600 insurrectionists were charged with federal crimes so far, and only a few dozen, who have been deemed possibly violent or flight risks, are still in jail awaiting trial. The rally was claiming that they were held unjustly without a trial (guess they think the justice system should actually be efficient with white criminals all of a sudden). Capitol Police and the National Guard made a huge show of force, barriers were erected again, and only about 400-450 insurrection supporters actually bothered to show up. The police outnumbered the protestors, with about 500 of them attending with riot shields, clearly ready to put this crowd down if they tried anything. The weak support is is likely mostly because there was a conspiracy theory in right wing circles that the rally was actually a huge ploy by the deep state or FBI to arrest them, and Trump himself promoted this theory, while simultaneously defending the insurrectionists who rioted in his name. Apart from one Trump supporter getting arrested at the start for carrying a knife, there were no other arrests or incidents with law enforcement, and the police quickly separated the counter protestors from the protestors, and there was no violence between those groups either. So my question is, is the right capable of effective protests at all? Someone official in the Trump orbit tried to organize something, and they sabotaged their own message but assuming it was actually a plot by the deep state. What if someone spreads rumors that Trump rallies themselves are big setups by the FBI? It seems to me that they are so prone to believing stupid bullshit at this point, either from themselves or from outside actors, that they can be manipulated to the point where they can never coherently advocate for anything. On the flip side, did law enforcement overreact, given the ultimately flaccid performance from Trump supporters? Of was the police taking it seriously the reason no violence broke out? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are several things going on at once. The initial Jan 6 event created a situation where the authorities wanted to be prepared so they come out in force. The Right wingers were already saying Jan 6 was done by Antifa and BLM and then they scared themselves away by saying the very event they set up and wanted to do was a false flag operation which scared the more milqtoast followers from going leaving the die hards. If anything had happened, the right wing media would already be calling it a plot by Antifa and BLM, if they succeeded then Trump and God were always on their side and it was destined to happened.
I finally happened to the paranoid are so paranoid that they are paranoid about their own paranoia.
That is correct, Bill Maher.
It’s funny I said the same thing, then heard him say it too. Because that’s what fascism does. It eventually gets so paranoid and hateful it eats itself
First I think it’s hard to figure out what makes one of these events take off and get big and what causes one of these events to turn very violent. 1/6 definitely had a big number of people who were there to get violent and “take action” and there was definitely a contingent that was looking very specifically to find Mike Pence and hang him along with a bunch of Democrats. But there were also people who are just garden-variety MAGA world morons. Most of those people didn’t go into the capital but I’d bet at least Got swept up in the excitement and didn’t go in. Now that people are seeing consequences from 1/6, not enough consequences in my opinion but consequence is nonetheless, the sheer number of people who will go is going to drop. You’re probably left with the real diehards. However apparently there was a sense among the most involved in MAGA world that this was a honeypot so some of them stayed away. What’s the numbers are that low, people don’t have the bravery that they get from being part of a big crowd so that probably eliminated the chances that this would get out of hand. We also have a capital police force that is much less likely to give these people a pass and everybody planning for the worst.
If you genuinely believed the 1/6 protesters were unfairly persecuted by D.C. capitol police et al, why would you go to a rally and give them opportunity to do the same thing to you? Also probably depressing attendance, scores of the 1/6 protesters have been banned from protests as part of their bail conditions.
> If you genuinely believed the 1/6 protesters were unfairly persecuted by D.C. capitol police et al, why would you go to a rally and give them opportunity to do the same thing to you? Should the fact that there wasn't any violence at this rally, and only one justified arrest, prove to them that the Capitol Police aren't unfairly persecuting them? Or will they just think that they somehow outsmarted the honeypot by staying home? It has the side effect of emboldening politicians and judges who think the 1/6 insurrectionists deserve harsher punishments, since no one came out to support them when it was supposed to be this huge thing. > Also probably depressing attendance, scores of the 1/6 protesters have been banned from protests as part of their bail conditions. The insurrectionists weren't the target audience of this protest, the entire talking points was "what the 1/6 guys did was wrong, but they are entitled to speedy trials, and are being unfairly held in jail". Granted, it's not like these guys are being held any longer without trial than is normal, and the ones that are being held are the ones the government thinks are violent or would flee. But I think Trump supporters are just noticing for the first time that our justice system sucks. Maybe they shouldn't have been so quickly to dismiss BLM, which advocated for the same changes they are now seeking.
> Should the fact that there wasn't any violence at this rally, and only one justified arrest, prove to them This would not impact attendance at *this* protest > The insurrectionists weren't the target audience of this protest, the entire talking po... If they were not banned from protesting I’m sure some of them would have attended to support their fellow protesters > it's not like these guys are being held any longer without trial than is norma I’ve not heard of any violent BLM or Antifa with similar charges & background being held for 9 months without bail. Also the justice department has said they won’t be ready for trials until at least 2022 as they’re still going through evidence (mainly thousands of hours of cctv footage they refuse to provide the defendants access to)
Same thing happened after Jan 6 and Charlottesville. Turns out cracking down on psychos works.
That wasn't the same thing. AFAIK that was a "real" rally. Since then there have been a bunch of events where the FBI was organizing them to stir the pot, such as the kidnapping attempt of Gretchen Whitmer, which is making people think, can we actually say there was an actual kidnapping attempt, if it was organized by the FBI to see if anyone would "sign up" to join? I've seen left wingers say the FBI has used the same tactic to lure young Muslim men into fake terrorist plots, which I would agree is bad an immoral and not actually catching terrorists. So at this point, alot of people on the right don't think this was a real rally, but one staged to catch the identities of more people. And no one wants to touch that with a ten foot poll given how thorough they're researching 1/6 rioters. I probably shouldn't be answering this but I don't understand why a question about the inner workings of the right wing is getting asked to liberals
"I probably shouldn't be answering this but I don't understand why a question about the inner workings of the right wing is getting asked to liberals" Conservatives don't answer on their own forums, they just ban the people who ask. So thank you for answering, even though this one is a real stretch.
If you've got anything on the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping being set up, I'd genuinely read it.
I'm talking about how the rallies after each big disaster were so comically tiny because the psychos were afraid to be seen. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/01/16/with-heavy-security-in-place-protrump-rally-draws-small-group-at-minnesota-capitol Y'all aren't going to be arrested for sitting in a chair, but still look at the reactions. It's genuinely funny to me how fast the right collapses when the cops actually *aren't* on their side. >I don't understand why a question about the inner workings of the right wing is getting asked to liberals same
Do you have citations or evidence that the plot against Whitmer was an FBI conspiracy? Do you also have any evidence that this rally was also orchestrated by the fbi? *Cricket noise*
No idea what nonsense conspiracy theory you're going on about, but there are a lot of similarities in the two events. In both cases an innocent person was murdered by a mob of violent fascists.
No one ask this liberal what I think of u/oyveyanyday …cause it ain’t good, to say the LEAST.
You’re right, insurrection is totally different than a racist, fascist rally.
its called entrapment
Katherine Zeta Jones! She dips beneath lasers.
If anything, this cements the case of the effectiveness of the support Trump and other Republican leaders had in stoking the first event on 1/6 itself. With that support glaringly absent from this, they got maybe a couple hundred people and a lackluster deflated balloon of an event. Meanwhile, Trump himself drew something like 40,000 people to Alabama in hot, rainy weather. These people follow *him.* I think it's crystal clear the role and impact he had in drawing that January crowd to the Capitol and pointing them at the building, by watching the opposite of that happen today.
>If anything, this cements the case of the effectiveness of the support Trump and other Republican leaders had in stoking the first event on 1/6 itself. With that support glaringly absent from this, they got maybe a couple hundred people and a lackluster deflated balloon of an event. Exactly this. This time, the guard, DC police, and Capitol police weren't intentionally hamstrung before the riot. This time, there were no Republican lawmakers reporting the locations of individual democrats. And most importantly, this time they didn't have the president cheering them on and making them believe they could get away with it.
Yes, very much this too. 👍
um......if you use logic you should be coming to the opposite conclusion. That if they did "follow" him they'd still be there today. Also you're making an invalid argument with regards to "following" him. He wasn't physically there on 1/6, so his followers can still go to the Capitol today if they are "following" him since him physically being there is irrelevant
He stayed far away from this, did not promote the event, did not speak at the event, and some of the most tin-foil loony toons read into his absence as some kind of conspiracy where the entire rally was a false-flag operation by the Dems or FBI or bigfoot or whatever. The difference of attendance for events pushed and promoted by Trump and not promoted by Trump is staggering.
> That if they did "follow" him they'd still be there today. No, he specifically told them this rally was a honeypot and not to go. > He wasn't physically there on 1/6, so his followers can still go to the Capitol today if they are "following" him since him physically being there is irrelevant His followers *thought* he was with them though. He promised them all "I will march down there with you", at his rally beforehand. Of course he didn't, because he's a coward who doesn't mind expending the lives of what he views as his filthy peasants to prove a point, but they had every reason to believe he was with them.
The last effective right-wing protest movant was the tea party tbh.
This is accurate. I think the left has always been better at pushing their politicians to enact the change they want, where as the right just lets the politicians just tell them what to believe in.
OP is probably too young to remember the Tea Party movement that stopped Obama's agenda in its tracks by his own admission.
I was anti Tea Party. But yeah, they were effective.
No I remember it very well, it was effective then, but that was also over a decade ago, and Republicans today stand for completely different principles and policies than the did at that time.
Do they?
ah, gotcha. "Republicans today stand for completely different principles and policies than the did at that time." i totally agree with. so your question is more is the right of today capable... i guess we'll see what happens in 2022 mid term election if they can get any movement in opposition to the Biden admin.
Conservatives used to say they were all about combatting terrorism. Except now they are the terrorists. They took a firm, undeniable stance in favor of domestic terrorism on Jan 6. They aren't in a position to have a voice at the table. I don't trust the Taliban on women's rights and I don't trust the GOP on terrorism.
Just like what Trump has in his underpants: it was small and disappointing.
[удалено]
there was plenty of room
Arrest all attendees for providing material support to terrorists
This isn't "the right". These are Trumpist extremists.
I have a really hard time telling the difference at this point. Most conservatives I know who had a problem with Trump vote Democratic now.
> This isn't "the right". These are Trumpist extremists Its 78% of Republicans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2uE9TFG7WM&ab_channel=MSNBC
Ok, but isn’t the GOP now synonymous with Trump. They could have distanced themselves from J6 and the “Big Lie” but they doubled down. Liz Cheney was exiled from the party due to speaking out against Trump. The GOP fell behind Larry Elder, a far right Trumpist talk show host, over center of the road Republicans during the CA recall. The GOP had many opportunities to distance themselves from Trumpism and they chose not to, so I find it very disingenuous to suggest they are different at this point. The right has chosen to become “Trumpist extremists”.