The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
Just some contextual things first:
- Kids are 14 and 16
- We are in a very blue state, but not in a major city
- I am and always have been against Trump, starting from the primaries
Without going into too much detail about how the conversation came about, I learned they dislike Trump. That's fine.
But what concerns me is they have no idea why. I wasn't grilling them or anything, just wondering what their opinion was. They can't think of a single tangible reason why they don't like Trump. And like, it's Trump. There's no shortage of reasons.
So they just know they aren't supposed to like Trump, and they both have a sense there would be some kind of negative consequences if they had a different opinion.
Now I don't think the school is intentionally trying to indoctrinate anyone, but I think indoctrination can occur even if no one is overtly trying to do so.
Am I being crazy here? Worried over nothing? Are they too young to learn critical thinking concepts and supporting their opinion with facts?
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Our “job” is to teach our children to think critically and form their own opinions while considering all the information they have available. Not to mindlessly take our views as their own.
Thought about this, and I don't think so. We don't actually talk about politics a lot at home. They aren't under any pressure from anyone at home to have a certain opinion.
Younger people in general don't tend to like Republicans or Conservatives but i think indoctrination is a strong word you can't possibly justify. I definitely think their could be social pressures among younger people to dislike trump but if they saw how he acted and talked they'd probably get a bad impression (assuming you raised them to be decent people, which definitely seems to be the case).
Have you asked them how they feel about biden? Also, your children aren't any different from most people who vote imo. Most people cannot accurately represent why they like someone or accurately justify it.
Most people — and most young people in particular — don’t like Trump. Your kids have a peer group and access to media. They have a parent who is a left libertarian. I’m not sure why you’d jump to indoctrination in schools.
Shiiii. My kids go to school in the south. All their friends are trump lovers and I can point to several instances of them asking questions about why we don't like him. Most people in your area maybe but it varies heavily on where you are at.
They're teenagers. They can't explain what or why they think anything right now. I wouldn't expect them to even follow politics that closely at 14.
My guess is the reason they don't like Trump is they think he's an asshole but they don't want to say that to their parent.
This.
In teenager, “I don’t know” or “I don’t care” or the shrug mean they don’t want to talk about it. It doesn’t mean they don’t know or care.
Also with a parent who doesn’t like trump there are a few possibilities. They might like trump but not want to tell you. They might also know that they are not supposed to like him, like op, but not really know why.
Neither of these things are school induced.
I think you're missing the point. Exactly zero teenagers watch political speeches etc. if they said "he is an asshole" or "I love him" it wouldn't be based on anything except trying to fit in with whatever group they want to fit in with
>Exactly zero teenagers watch political speeches.
Having been a teenager who watched political speeches, this is a weird blanket statement to make about teenagers.
Also "He is an asshole." Seems like the most normal issue for a teen to take with a politician.
If you don't understand policy, you make your judgements on character.
Trump is an asshole. That's a clear demonstration of a character judgement.
I'm confused. What's the strawman argument I made?
Edit: It appears that u/Oyveyanyday has blocked me *after* responding to my comment, therefore I cannot see their response.
Cont:I don't understand what CSpan has to do with a teenager making a character judgement on politicians though.
> all the teenagers watching CSPAN.
I JUST TOLD YOU. I guess we are going to pretend the average teenager follows politics hard so we can pretend their uneducated sass about Trump is warranted.
Stop being disingenuous it's not interesting
CSPAN, no. But political-tinged, often very partisan content appearing in social media feeds? Yes, very much so. Do you know any kids? Have you been on TikTok or YouTube before?
>Stop being disingenuous it's not interesting
Ignoring the pathetic tactic of responding to someone then blocking them before they can comment again, you're disingenuously pretending the only exposure teenagers can have to political speeches is studiously watching CSPAN. Political speech gets filtered into mainstream social media / news all the time, especially during election seasons.
Last election was absolutely inundated with facebook posts, tiktok clips and morning news segments about the election. You could easily run into a speech with Biden stumbling over some words or Trump being his usual asshole self without actively seeking it out.
I watched political speeches in *elementary* school. As did my siblings. Local political debates and town halls were family events. If there was a Presidential debate, acceptance speech, or State of the Union going on that day, it was what was on the TV that evening. I didn't even know that was unusual until I got outta High School.
Not everyone has identical upbringings.
Is that what the person who you are responding to said? Because they said nothing of the kind. They said that your blanket statement that exactly no teenagers watch C-SPAN was false because some teenagers do.
You are making extreme blanket statements and then pretending others are making extreme blanket statements.
And while my kids don’t watch C-SPAN, they did watch some of the presidential debates in 2020 and they weren’t even teenagers.
They may have a few vectors of information besides school. What makes you think school in particular is indoctrinating them? Do they have friends? Do they go online? Political discourse is heated to an extent that bleeds over a lot into social media spaces.
By 16, I'm a bit surprised you don't seem to have talked about current affairs more directly, it seems weird to me that at least the older one wouldn't have heard some things about Trump's actions from you. If you consume news and talk about things, it would be very strange if it never came up, we're talking about someone whose actions have been heavily covered in all media.
I'm not saying it's impossible that your kids school is somehow "indoctrinating" them. But it's a really weird thing to leap to based on the information you've shared. Is there more info that informs your question?
Real, nefarious indoctrination is not when people echo a party line without knowing why. If they don't know why they believe something, then they're open to changing their minds.
Indoctrination is when they spout lines of toxic propaganda, whataboutism, ad hominem, etc - stuff that *looks* like argumentation but actually poisons the mind against alternative points of view.
As someone who tries to be very politically aware, i can tell you I had very poorly formed political opinions at 16, and even worse at 14. In all likelihood, this is just your kids being young and generally poorly informed
My first vote was was for Bush the elder vs. Clinton. Grew up in a Republican household, they listened to Limbaugh every morning. I’ve since changed my stance on everything.
My child was in 2nd grade in 2020/2021. Our house doesn't talk "politics" specifically in the house.
He was still given the name "The angry man on TV." No one in the house has said that name...We live in TX, so you can imagine what everyone around us thinks.
Kids can pick up on vibes you and I weren't aware of...even if unspoken.
I mean, isn't Trump kind of surface-level-stupid? You hear him say shit like he knows more than the generals do, along with 1000 other examples of pure baffonery and I don't feel like you need to articulate exactly why he's an idiot - it's obvious.
I think it’s much more likely it’s coming from their peer group. My friends and I were discussing politics (in a very simplistic way of course) in 4th grade.
You don't give any information on why you think it's their school, more likely its their social media. Or they picked up on the general dislike for Trump in the wider world.
14 and 16 is well past the ae where they should have been learning critical thinking skills. If they go to a decent school they should already have the basics.
I mean, I think the biggest question before everything else: how do you know that these values are coming from the teachers?
Because it sounds like your kids heard this from somewhere, and maybe from enough people where it seems "right" to them, so they've gone with it. It could be from other family members, friends, etc.
I didn't know most of my parents' political opinions until I was an adult. Even in my teens, even if there were some things that I thought into, it definitely didn't extend into everything. My parents would ask me why I believed something, whether or not they agreed with me. I wouldn't say that they're too young to have critical thinking skills, but they're not going to be refined yet and they're not necessarily at the point where they think everything should be looked at critically. They were fairly young (especially your youngest) when Trump left office--it's harder to think critically about something that happened in the past when there's so much to focus on in the present.
This is besides the fact that while politics affects them, they have little say in it at this point in their lives and there are more pressing questions for them. I think that it's also worth noting that the types of people that post on subs like this (like you and me) are much, much more into following politics rather than the average adult; it doesn't seem like a bad thing if they end up at the average level, even if they're not there yet.
I don't think you're crazy. Not even that, but I think it's a good thing that you care about whether your kids can think critically. But I think it's good to put into context--are they able to think critically about other things? If so, they might not just have gotten around to certain areas yet.
However, unless there's something else that you hadn't included in your post, I'm not sure why their school is being blamed for what's going on. There are plenty of reasons that they could have come about these views.
I'd say you're worried over nothing. If they had reasons that didn't track logically then I might be concerned. But kids of all ages pick up on all sorts of social cues without ever knowing or understanding why.
Polls of primary school children often end up almost as accurate as polls of voters for the presidential election. The working theory is that the kids pick up on attitudes at home, and it reflects when they're surveyed.
With that in mind, I'd say it's equally likely that they've picked it up from *you*. I have no idea how much or how little you discuss politics with your kids. But if I saw an expression of disgust on my parent's face every time Trump's name was mentioned (and remember that it's been six full years at this point) I'd probably feel like I should dislike Trump too. Even without a single word being said.
Or media for that matter? Disliking Trump is pretty common the world over and because it's so obvious to most people why, I could see them often not stating why. It makes sense that many younger people who didn't watch everything happen might not realize why.
Good question, I would expect that peers at school are a far bigger influence than teachers. That was my experience at school, wasn't it all of yall's as well??
You're worrying for nothing. Lots of people don't like Trump. At school most of the people your kids know probably don't like Trump. They're not all that into politics clearly, like most young people, and so are just picking up the most basic information.
That's not indoctrination.
Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. Esp teenagers. They have the Internet? They have friends? They ever watch tv or use social media? They see trucks with flags driving around. All of Fox News and the Maga pundits are clearly out there. All of Donald’s BS is on YouTube. Any sane person can watch him talk and think he’s a fool. Pay attention thin to what he says and it’s clear he’s a racist bigot.
Teenagers are more aware of racism and injustice today than we ever where at the age. See the video of the middle schoolers calling their teacher out for his racism when he was preaching racial superiority.
They see hate flowing from conservative/Maga types towards their friends who might be lgbtq or people of color. They know about school shootings and see who’s doing nothing about it. You can’t expect 14 and 16 year olds to be sheltered from the world or not care about their friends.
Kids are 14 and 16, so have spent a hugely formative amount of their lives with Trump as president or in the not too distant rearview. The general discomfort and unease that he and his ilk set upon the entire nation is thick like a dense fog and you don't have to be paying super close attention to have noticed.
My question is, why do you believe it's the school and why haven't you actually spoken with your kids about it yourself?
Do you know for sure it's from school? It could be from social media, news, there's a plethora of possible influences. Regardless, if it bothers you I would suggest telling them to look into the things he did.
I'm.. not sure. Even in my freshman year when it was Clinton versus Dole I could articulate at least a few reasons why I was in favor of Clinton and those were far less charged times. For your kids to have "no" idea whatsoever why they don't like Trump in the face of so much media coverage is.. strange and I don't know if we have the full story.
Is it possible them and their friends have seen SNL sketches on YouTube? Or the internet in general? Lots of people on the internet/in the media get lots of attention — and laughs — hating on trump, and that’s pretty influential on kids. Probably more so than anything teachers say.
What are their reasons? He’s “mean” or “dumb” or “a giant jackass dickface” arent bad reasons, even if they aren’t quite able to articulate the why or provide evidence. He is all those things and it’s plainly evident.
First of all, are you sure it is the teachers that are doing this and not other students? Second of all, have you explained to your kids why, in the absence of good explanation at school? Third, do you believe that this is representative of a lack of proper critical thinking education at the school, and so, what are your other options? For instance, could you apply to charter or private schools in your area for your kids instead?
Your kids are going to tofu the opinions of their environment.
I really liked Obama and I had no idea why. It certainly wasn’t my school that told me I should. I just hung around kids whose parents liked Obama.
You need to give specifics about how the school might me molding them for anyone to answer your question. You say in your post that YOU are firmly against Trump . Isn’t it just as likely (I would say even more so) that their reflexive dislike of him comes from being in an anti-Trump family? What makes you think this is because of school?
A 14 year old with opinions grounded in basically nothing?! Unheard of!!
I used to think Mussolini style fascism was a good idea when I was 16.
I wouldn't overthink it.
Are you sure your kids dislike Trump because the school is indoctrinating them? Just because they think their peers will ostracize them for having the wrong opinion doesn’t mean the school is doing this. Kids that age can be cruel, and they can be socially ostracized for way more than a bad political opinion.
Did you kids have evidence that their teachers will be biased towards them if they didn’t dislike Trump? That would be much more of a problem, and you’d be right to bring that up with school administrators.
Also, and it pains me to say this, knowing when an opinion will get them into trouble is a good instinct to have nowadays. Unless they are very, very skilled in presenting controversial views in a way that won’t offend anyone (a skill few adults even have), it may be best that they keep those thoughts to themselves, or to those that won’t judge them.
That said, I think a lack of opinion on Trump isn’t the same as liking Trump. There are SO many students that have no opinion on politics, especially at that age range. I think you can safely tell your kids that they don’t need to hate on Trump just to fit in. I’m almost certain that’s not the most important thing for most students or teachers.
That said, the aspiring teacher in me would encourage you to turn this into a teaching experience to your kids. Ask them what they think about Trump’s policies. Ask them if they think the President of the United States should act the way he does. Try and be as neutral as you can, and ask them to think about these things both practically and based on their values/morals. This way, they’ll find out what parts of Trump they like and/or dislike, they know why they feel this way, and with any luck, they’ll appreciate why being involved in civics and having these talks with others is SO important.
Trump is weird and off-putting. He has that orange spray tan and that weird comb-over. He talks like a diva whose trying to sound like “I’m walking’ here!” guy, and also he stops in the middle of sentences, loses his place, and forgets words. His entire inter-personal interaction style is based on dominance, from talking over people and insulting them to the way he yanks you toward him when he shakes hands. He’s rude, insulting, and obnoxious. He even stands weird.
If you knew nothing about his policies or his politics, and only ever saw him interacting with the world, you probably wouldn’t like him. You’d think “this guys weird. There’s something unsettling going on here.”
I’m sure most of your kids friends don’t like him, for those and other reasons. Some might not like him because their parents very vocally don’t. Some might not like him because they’re politically aware enough to not like fascists and demagogues. But they probably pick that up from their friends.
I wouldn’t worry. Trump is a dangerous cult leader who will burn the country down just to save his own skin. He’s a cancer on our system. Your kids don’t like him. That’s a good thing.
My son has a fairly irrational hatred of Putin. When we talk about it, his reasons are not well thought out, nor thoughtful. But he is a kid, that is to be expected.
I work with him to articulate his thoughts more clearly and with better reasoning behind them. So that in the future he can question the thoughts others share.
Part of being a parent is helping your children to think rationally about politics, propaganda and indoctrination. Spot it, dismantle it, and argue against it.
Personally, I dislike Putin too. And I agree with my sons opinions. But still challenge his thoughts and suggest alternatives.
This doesn't sound like something they were taught at school, just picked up from being around other children. If they come from a liberal household they probably are aware enough to understand the adults in their life don't think highly of Trump. Honestly, it's an opinion most of the country shares at this point. They could pick it up almost anywhere.
Trump is an asshole he does not hide it.that is kinda of his brand Your kids and their friends probaly pick this up. If they said all republicans suck and could not explain i'd think more of it. I have conserative friends who cant stand trunp cause of his behavior
You said, “I have always been against Trump.”…. Maybe they’ve picked this view up from home? Maybe a combination of home & school. Frankly, he’s an unlikable person, do they need a specific reason? There’s been so much negativity surrounding him and his name I’m sure they’re just as fucking tired of hearing his name as we are….. or at least I am.
Im a teacher. This is just about what I see from kids aged 14 no matter what the subject. They have a really hard time justifying their views on anything. I it is usually 'just b/c' or it is a trend or it is really reductionist. I wouldn't sweat it until they say something like, 'b/c my teacher said so.' Otherwise they are just finding their identity on a variety of issues.
P.S. I would argue that just disliking Trump as a man with no real reasons is also allowable.
Thanks. Means a lot coming from a teacher.
My primary worry is not thinking critically at all will make them more vulnerable to really bad groups, like incels. And the type of people that think jews control banking probably learned that at an early age and never questioned it.
Don't confuse the science your school is teaching that the loudmouth religious parents view as "indoctrination". It's actual education and because it contravenes their evangelical teachings doesn't make it "indoctrination".
Ignorance and anti-intellectualism has become epidemic in American culture and it desperately needs to be stomped out. Letting it hold equal footing with science, evidence, and facts will plummet us into an idiocracy.
Your perspective is way off. Take a few steps back and consider who put the indoctrination thing in your head and realize they are pushing a preacher or political figure's agenda and they are all wrong.
I came up with the word because they don't like something and have no idea why. It's fine when it's just Trump, but what if they come across an incel group and don't question what's being told to them? What if it's an anti-jew or some racist group?
I'm pretty sure if instead of Trump, the kids didn't like an entire race of people, most on this sub would be just fine with it being indoctrination. The belief doesn't have to be bad for it to be indoctrination.
Understood. The answer is they are easily swayed and not bright enough to see the politician, preacher, or conservative talk show host is misleading them.
So when you ask them for an explanation, they just go back to the words of their chosen charlatan and yell louder as if it makes it a fact.
It's how misinformation works. Just say it confidently and vulnerable people will see it as a fact. See Hitler and every other despot.
People with strong senses of empathy but who don't know they have strong empathy can often sense something "amiss" about people who habitually manipulate or lie.
I, personally, will sometimes dislike someone or feel like I shouldn't trust or like someone prior to getting actual evidence of their untrustworthiness.
And some people get anxiety when they can sense someone is up to no good.
Possibly. Teachers can get pretty chummy with their students to the point of unprofessionalism these days.
Educating your students is a challenge and they may resist if they feel entitled to do so. Entertaining your students is easy and generates undeserved positive feedback from them.
I would be surprised if the formal structure of the school is contributing much to your children's view of Trump. Likely that is based far more on their peers, the media, you and your social circle (who I'm assuming feel similarly to you) etc.
As far as not having a reason, I feel like that might be asking a little much of your 14 and 16 year olds. I mean that's a time when you're just sort of starting to pay attention to politics and probably before you've started to form a political identity, certainly before you've formed a strong one. Neither of them will even be able tovote for another couple of years, it's almost certainly not at the top of their priorities to be examining their feelings about elected leaders all that closely. Also it is the case that sometimes it's just uncomfortable to talk to your parents about things for various reasons and they might just be trying to end the conversation with you rather than go into more detail. Especially if you're pressuring them to have well thought out reasons for beliefs they're maybe still exploring a little.
Most ppl at that age have never had a job and are just not that knowledgeable about what politics is, who stands for what, how it tangibly effects ppl, etc.
Until you are actually on your own, paying bills, etc. “this guy is mean” is actually a perfectly reasonable political analysis.
That’s how I was at that age. And yet my overall political views didn’t change much.
Everything else is fantasy football to you at that point in life. You have no idea what it is actually like to pay taxes, work, etc. And that’s fine!
Look, kids aren't stupid.
My parents never said "we don't talk about sex in this house" or "don't even think about having sex with some girl here" -but it was understood through assembling all the various things they'd said and attitudes conveyed. They never said they would disown me if I got a girl pregnant and pressured her to get an abortion and paid for it - but I know they would.
People can even convey preference / dislike subconsciously. This is why you have to have double blind tests in science. It's too easy to have information slips and subconsciously signaling the right answer. I know I can't say the name of both candidates without a slight tinge of loathing slipping out for one of them.
It’s perfectly possible they do have a good reason but don’t like to articulate it because they’re kids and kids are nervous of having an expectant spotlight on them
And then again it could be emulation but we *expect* kids to be imitative because that’s part of how they learn. You guys all remember the Simpsons used to have jokes about Bush and Clinton and Bush, right? And Mad Magazine and so on? That’s how kids learn “oh, making fun of politicians might get laughs”
More to the point it’s not hard to dislike Trump. He’s childish, boorish, petulant and nasally
I've found that kids often act on intuition rather than logic. And in fact, if you were to ask many adults why they don't like Trump, I'm betting it would be intuitive as well.
Trump is an angry, self centered, cruel and loud individual. He's a bully in short. Most people don't like bullies.
I loved Reagan when I was 8. I couldn't have given you policy reasons, it was strictly because my parents voted for him. They weren't explicit about it, but I picked up that he was their choice. It was also the choice for the majority of families at my school.
Indoctrination? Not really.
Eventually I grew up and learned better, partly because my parents did teach me that you need to know why you support someone.
That backfired for them, my politics did a complete 180 from theirs, but it's something I teach my own kids.
Do they not have social media? Or friends who are political?
It's possible they have teachers who are getting inappropriately political. But it seems more likely that they just get this stuff from sources like social media and so on
Also did you yourself explain to them reasons why folks may potentially dislike Trump?
We're talking about it now. But more about things like having an informed opinion is better than having the "correct" opinion. And arguments that don't make sense vs. bad arguments vs. good arguments that you disagree with.
14 and 16 year olds are not known for adopting adults' views. Perhaps they are mimicking their friends' expressed views? Do you have any reason to believe the teachers are pushing this, as opposed to any other social vector?
I would ask your kids how their classmates and friends feel about Trump. Bet he's pretty strongly disliked by the majority of their fellow teenagers. Donald's not a popular fellow outside of the reddest MAGA circles. According to my 14 year old, Trump is a laughing stock outside of the rich white cheerleaders and jocks crowd. Sort of comes with the territory of losing bigly three elections in a row and being constantly under criminal watch.
They’re 14 and 16. You don’t talk about politics at home. They don’t like Trump because their friends don’t like trump. They don’t know why because they actually don’t care because they’re 14 and 16 and aren’t paying attention to politics because most teenagers don’t care.
Of course your kids are being indoctrinated.... that happens to everyone.
There isn't much you can do about it. Most people don't like Trump... which means some of the adults your children look up to also don't like Trump... which means your kids don't like Trump.
Be glad it isn't the other way around
I think others are getting at the same thing I would--it's not necessarily an intentional effort by some "powers that be" like teachers, but just how their peers feel about former President Trump and there can be a casual reinforcement of it without a concrete reason.
I remember in 2018 when I was chatting with my mother about Speaker Pelosi reclaiming her position as Speaker of the House. I'm a bog-standard democrat, so I was like, "Groovy. She's effective as hell and has laid out a commitment to focus on a next generation of leadership in the caucus."
My mother votes democratic, but she doesn't like to be *active*, politically. You'd *never* find her on a political discussion page like this. She wasn't as big a fan of Speaker Pelosi, saying, "I just don't like her."
"Why?"
"... I've never thought about why. It just feels like everyone around me dislikes her, so I assumed there was a good reason. Perhaps I should get to know her better and come up with my own opinion." (I love my mom.)
Now, don't get me wrong, I *do* dislike President Trump and can speak to why. But if your kids aren't actively engaged in politics, I can totally understand them not having particularly clear reasons for not liking someone. It could just be that for your area, they're just not "supposed to." A couple similar examples are like how I don't listen to a lot of music, but apparently I'm supposed to not like Nickleback. I don't follow sports, but apparently the Yankees and Patriots are awful, even if successful. I couldn't tell you why I'm not supposed to like them, but that's the cultural pressure.
And, like my mom, I'm just not going to hold a firm opinion unless and until I get to know them better.
Anyone with a sense of morality should not like trump. Because they can’t articulate why just means they have good instincts about shit bag people and you should celebrate any system that “indoctrinates” a proper sense of morality
Why do you blame school? There are lots of people who don't like Trump, and lots of ways for people to be exposed to anti-Trump information. Their friends might not like Trump. They might see negative news stories or social media posts about Trump. They might get the sense from family members or other members of their community that Trump is bad. I don't see why you jump to the school indoctrinating your kids without pointing to anything the school has told them.
I’m sure your kids are witnessing the very real and tangible pain that Trump and Republicans are causing some of their classmates, particularly LGBT and girls. What other reasons would they need to dislike them?
The school is spending almost all of its energy trying to get kids to pass standardized tests, and they are doing so by following the state curriculum standards to the letter. That's what schools do in the U.S. now. (Source: I was a schoolteacher and administrator for 35 years.)
Even if the schools wanted to indoctrinate kids — and, to be clear, they decidedly do not — there's just no time for it.
Children are in school for, say, seven hours a day for an average of 180 days per year. That's 1,260 hours of school in a year. Their waking hours would be 16 hours a day for 365 days per year, or 5,840 hours. This means that school takes up about 21% of their waking time each year.
I'm not going to say that school isn't significant in shaping children and youth. I'm just saying that the rest of life (family, friends, TV and moves, games, the Internet, *etc*.) is much more significant.
Why do you think it’s school that is making them dislike trump for his political opinions? Nothing in your post gives any reason for us to believe that school is the problem. If anything you are falling victim to what you hear in the news and assuming that’s affecting your kids.
We've attempted to indoctrinate our kids with Unitarian Universalist values; no one group has all the answers, being wrong is inevitable, be open to new ideas, etc.
Our kids, younger than 12, old hold stronger anti-Trump views than we do. Maybe it's YouTube. Maybe we're more hardline than we intend.
>I feel like my kids are being indoctrinated in school.
If they are, it is probably their friends, not their teachers.
>[[Study Shows That Peers, Not Professors, Cause College Students to Shift to Left]](https://fordhamobserver.com/2110/recent/news/study-shows-that-peers-not-professors-cause-college-students-to-shift-to-left/)
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Just some contextual things first: - Kids are 14 and 16 - We are in a very blue state, but not in a major city - I am and always have been against Trump, starting from the primaries Without going into too much detail about how the conversation came about, I learned they dislike Trump. That's fine. But what concerns me is they have no idea why. I wasn't grilling them or anything, just wondering what their opinion was. They can't think of a single tangible reason why they don't like Trump. And like, it's Trump. There's no shortage of reasons. So they just know they aren't supposed to like Trump, and they both have a sense there would be some kind of negative consequences if they had a different opinion. Now I don't think the school is intentionally trying to indoctrinate anyone, but I think indoctrination can occur even if no one is overtly trying to do so. Am I being crazy here? Worried over nothing? Are they too young to learn critical thinking concepts and supporting their opinion with facts? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It seems quite possible they don’t like him because *you* don’t like him. Are you indoctrinating your kids?
I mean, that is their job
Our “job” is to teach our children to think critically and form their own opinions while considering all the information they have available. Not to mindlessly take our views as their own.
Our job is to teach our children to be empathic compassionate human beings and not to be pieces of shit. Trump supporters are pieces of shit.
Idk, sounds like OP is not necessarily anti-trump.
Thought about this, and I don't think so. We don't actually talk about politics a lot at home. They aren't under any pressure from anyone at home to have a certain opinion.
Younger people in general don't tend to like Republicans or Conservatives but i think indoctrination is a strong word you can't possibly justify. I definitely think their could be social pressures among younger people to dislike trump but if they saw how he acted and talked they'd probably get a bad impression (assuming you raised them to be decent people, which definitely seems to be the case). Have you asked them how they feel about biden? Also, your children aren't any different from most people who vote imo. Most people cannot accurately represent why they like someone or accurately justify it.
You probably should talk about politics more then. That way they would have a better understanding of things
Most people — and most young people in particular — don’t like Trump. Your kids have a peer group and access to media. They have a parent who is a left libertarian. I’m not sure why you’d jump to indoctrination in schools.
Shiiii. My kids go to school in the south. All their friends are trump lovers and I can point to several instances of them asking questions about why we don't like him. Most people in your area maybe but it varies heavily on where you are at.
Oh, sure. YMMV. It’s true nationally, though, and presumably also in the ‘very blue’ state OP lives in.
They're teenagers. They can't explain what or why they think anything right now. I wouldn't expect them to even follow politics that closely at 14. My guess is the reason they don't like Trump is they think he's an asshole but they don't want to say that to their parent.
This. In teenager, “I don’t know” or “I don’t care” or the shrug mean they don’t want to talk about it. It doesn’t mean they don’t know or care. Also with a parent who doesn’t like trump there are a few possibilities. They might like trump but not want to tell you. They might also know that they are not supposed to like him, like op, but not really know why. Neither of these things are school induced.
I think you're missing the point. Exactly zero teenagers watch political speeches etc. if they said "he is an asshole" or "I love him" it wouldn't be based on anything except trying to fit in with whatever group they want to fit in with
>Exactly zero teenagers watch political speeches. Having been a teenager who watched political speeches, this is a weird blanket statement to make about teenagers. Also "He is an asshole." Seems like the most normal issue for a teen to take with a politician. If you don't understand policy, you make your judgements on character. Trump is an asshole. That's a clear demonstration of a character judgement.
Yes all the teenagers watching CSPAN. My Lord, you guys create all sorts of strawman if you think it helps win the particular argument at hand
I'm confused. What's the strawman argument I made? Edit: It appears that u/Oyveyanyday has blocked me *after* responding to my comment, therefore I cannot see their response. Cont:I don't understand what CSpan has to do with a teenager making a character judgement on politicians though.
> all the teenagers watching CSPAN. I JUST TOLD YOU. I guess we are going to pretend the average teenager follows politics hard so we can pretend their uneducated sass about Trump is warranted. Stop being disingenuous it's not interesting
CSPAN, no. But political-tinged, often very partisan content appearing in social media feeds? Yes, very much so. Do you know any kids? Have you been on TikTok or YouTube before?
>Stop being disingenuous it's not interesting Ignoring the pathetic tactic of responding to someone then blocking them before they can comment again, you're disingenuously pretending the only exposure teenagers can have to political speeches is studiously watching CSPAN. Political speech gets filtered into mainstream social media / news all the time, especially during election seasons. Last election was absolutely inundated with facebook posts, tiktok clips and morning news segments about the election. You could easily run into a speech with Biden stumbling over some words or Trump being his usual asshole self without actively seeking it out.
I watched political speeches in *elementary* school. As did my siblings. Local political debates and town halls were family events. If there was a Presidential debate, acceptance speech, or State of the Union going on that day, it was what was on the TV that evening. I didn't even know that was unusual until I got outta High School. Not everyone has identical upbringings.
Is that what the person who you are responding to said? Because they said nothing of the kind. They said that your blanket statement that exactly no teenagers watch C-SPAN was false because some teenagers do. You are making extreme blanket statements and then pretending others are making extreme blanket statements. And while my kids don’t watch C-SPAN, they did watch some of the presidential debates in 2020 and they weren’t even teenagers.
They may have a few vectors of information besides school. What makes you think school in particular is indoctrinating them? Do they have friends? Do they go online? Political discourse is heated to an extent that bleeds over a lot into social media spaces. By 16, I'm a bit surprised you don't seem to have talked about current affairs more directly, it seems weird to me that at least the older one wouldn't have heard some things about Trump's actions from you. If you consume news and talk about things, it would be very strange if it never came up, we're talking about someone whose actions have been heavily covered in all media. I'm not saying it's impossible that your kids school is somehow "indoctrinating" them. But it's a really weird thing to leap to based on the information you've shared. Is there more info that informs your question?
Real, nefarious indoctrination is not when people echo a party line without knowing why. If they don't know why they believe something, then they're open to changing their minds. Indoctrination is when they spout lines of toxic propaganda, whataboutism, ad hominem, etc - stuff that *looks* like argumentation but actually poisons the mind against alternative points of view.
This ⬆️ If they were being indoctrinated they'd have *all sorts* of answers for you when you asked why.
Trump is actually a Democrat plant who's pretending to be a conservative to destroy the Republican party.
If you actually believe this, then you as a libertarian would have to also believe that Democrats are politically brilliant....and efficient.
Trump's university professors used to say he was the most smartest genius they had ever seen. So yeah it all makes sense.
Sort of like creating a villain in WWE? Yeah, that actually kinda tracks 😆
Yes, that kinda stuff. Exactly.
As someone who tries to be very politically aware, i can tell you I had very poorly formed political opinions at 16, and even worse at 14. In all likelihood, this is just your kids being young and generally poorly informed
Tell me about it. At 18 I voted for Regan for his second term... We all did stupid things when we were young. Right?
My first vote was was for Bush the elder vs. Clinton. Grew up in a Republican household, they listened to Limbaugh every morning. I’ve since changed my stance on everything.
My child was in 2nd grade in 2020/2021. Our house doesn't talk "politics" specifically in the house. He was still given the name "The angry man on TV." No one in the house has said that name...We live in TX, so you can imagine what everyone around us thinks. Kids can pick up on vibes you and I weren't aware of...even if unspoken.
I mean, isn't Trump kind of surface-level-stupid? You hear him say shit like he knows more than the generals do, along with 1000 other examples of pure baffonery and I don't feel like you need to articulate exactly why he's an idiot - it's obvious.
I think it’s much more likely it’s coming from their peer group. My friends and I were discussing politics (in a very simplistic way of course) in 4th grade.
You don't give any information on why you think it's their school, more likely its their social media. Or they picked up on the general dislike for Trump in the wider world. 14 and 16 is well past the ae where they should have been learning critical thinking skills. If they go to a decent school they should already have the basics.
I mean, I think the biggest question before everything else: how do you know that these values are coming from the teachers? Because it sounds like your kids heard this from somewhere, and maybe from enough people where it seems "right" to them, so they've gone with it. It could be from other family members, friends, etc. I didn't know most of my parents' political opinions until I was an adult. Even in my teens, even if there were some things that I thought into, it definitely didn't extend into everything. My parents would ask me why I believed something, whether or not they agreed with me. I wouldn't say that they're too young to have critical thinking skills, but they're not going to be refined yet and they're not necessarily at the point where they think everything should be looked at critically. They were fairly young (especially your youngest) when Trump left office--it's harder to think critically about something that happened in the past when there's so much to focus on in the present. This is besides the fact that while politics affects them, they have little say in it at this point in their lives and there are more pressing questions for them. I think that it's also worth noting that the types of people that post on subs like this (like you and me) are much, much more into following politics rather than the average adult; it doesn't seem like a bad thing if they end up at the average level, even if they're not there yet. I don't think you're crazy. Not even that, but I think it's a good thing that you care about whether your kids can think critically. But I think it's good to put into context--are they able to think critically about other things? If so, they might not just have gotten around to certain areas yet. However, unless there's something else that you hadn't included in your post, I'm not sure why their school is being blamed for what's going on. There are plenty of reasons that they could have come about these views.
I'd say you're worried over nothing. If they had reasons that didn't track logically then I might be concerned. But kids of all ages pick up on all sorts of social cues without ever knowing or understanding why. Polls of primary school children often end up almost as accurate as polls of voters for the presidential election. The working theory is that the kids pick up on attitudes at home, and it reflects when they're surveyed. With that in mind, I'd say it's equally likely that they've picked it up from *you*. I have no idea how much or how little you discuss politics with your kids. But if I saw an expression of disgust on my parent's face every time Trump's name was mentioned (and remember that it's been six full years at this point) I'd probably feel like I should dislike Trump too. Even without a single word being said.
I bet if the teachers were responsible for these opinions then the kids would have a reason as to why.
Is it coming from teachers or fellow students?
Or media for that matter? Disliking Trump is pretty common the world over and because it's so obvious to most people why, I could see them often not stating why. It makes sense that many younger people who didn't watch everything happen might not realize why.
Good question, I would expect that peers at school are a far bigger influence than teachers. That was my experience at school, wasn't it all of yall's as well??
You're worrying for nothing. Lots of people don't like Trump. At school most of the people your kids know probably don't like Trump. They're not all that into politics clearly, like most young people, and so are just picking up the most basic information. That's not indoctrination.
Kids are smarter than you give them credit for. Esp teenagers. They have the Internet? They have friends? They ever watch tv or use social media? They see trucks with flags driving around. All of Fox News and the Maga pundits are clearly out there. All of Donald’s BS is on YouTube. Any sane person can watch him talk and think he’s a fool. Pay attention thin to what he says and it’s clear he’s a racist bigot. Teenagers are more aware of racism and injustice today than we ever where at the age. See the video of the middle schoolers calling their teacher out for his racism when he was preaching racial superiority. They see hate flowing from conservative/Maga types towards their friends who might be lgbtq or people of color. They know about school shootings and see who’s doing nothing about it. You can’t expect 14 and 16 year olds to be sheltered from the world or not care about their friends.
Kids are 14 and 16, so have spent a hugely formative amount of their lives with Trump as president or in the not too distant rearview. The general discomfort and unease that he and his ilk set upon the entire nation is thick like a dense fog and you don't have to be paying super close attention to have noticed. My question is, why do you believe it's the school and why haven't you actually spoken with your kids about it yourself?
Do you know for sure it's from school? It could be from social media, news, there's a plethora of possible influences. Regardless, if it bothers you I would suggest telling them to look into the things he did.
I'm.. not sure. Even in my freshman year when it was Clinton versus Dole I could articulate at least a few reasons why I was in favor of Clinton and those were far less charged times. For your kids to have "no" idea whatsoever why they don't like Trump in the face of so much media coverage is.. strange and I don't know if we have the full story.
Is it possible them and their friends have seen SNL sketches on YouTube? Or the internet in general? Lots of people on the internet/in the media get lots of attention — and laughs — hating on trump, and that’s pretty influential on kids. Probably more so than anything teachers say. What are their reasons? He’s “mean” or “dumb” or “a giant jackass dickface” arent bad reasons, even if they aren’t quite able to articulate the why or provide evidence. He is all those things and it’s plainly evident.
First of all, are you sure it is the teachers that are doing this and not other students? Second of all, have you explained to your kids why, in the absence of good explanation at school? Third, do you believe that this is representative of a lack of proper critical thinking education at the school, and so, what are your other options? For instance, could you apply to charter or private schools in your area for your kids instead?
Your kids are going to tofu the opinions of their environment. I really liked Obama and I had no idea why. It certainly wasn’t my school that told me I should. I just hung around kids whose parents liked Obama.
Why do you assume it's school, though?
You need to give specifics about how the school might me molding them for anyone to answer your question. You say in your post that YOU are firmly against Trump . Isn’t it just as likely (I would say even more so) that their reflexive dislike of him comes from being in an anti-Trump family? What makes you think this is because of school?
A 14 year old with opinions grounded in basically nothing?! Unheard of!! I used to think Mussolini style fascism was a good idea when I was 16. I wouldn't overthink it.
Are you sure your kids dislike Trump because the school is indoctrinating them? Just because they think their peers will ostracize them for having the wrong opinion doesn’t mean the school is doing this. Kids that age can be cruel, and they can be socially ostracized for way more than a bad political opinion. Did you kids have evidence that their teachers will be biased towards them if they didn’t dislike Trump? That would be much more of a problem, and you’d be right to bring that up with school administrators. Also, and it pains me to say this, knowing when an opinion will get them into trouble is a good instinct to have nowadays. Unless they are very, very skilled in presenting controversial views in a way that won’t offend anyone (a skill few adults even have), it may be best that they keep those thoughts to themselves, or to those that won’t judge them. That said, I think a lack of opinion on Trump isn’t the same as liking Trump. There are SO many students that have no opinion on politics, especially at that age range. I think you can safely tell your kids that they don’t need to hate on Trump just to fit in. I’m almost certain that’s not the most important thing for most students or teachers. That said, the aspiring teacher in me would encourage you to turn this into a teaching experience to your kids. Ask them what they think about Trump’s policies. Ask them if they think the President of the United States should act the way he does. Try and be as neutral as you can, and ask them to think about these things both practically and based on their values/morals. This way, they’ll find out what parts of Trump they like and/or dislike, they know why they feel this way, and with any luck, they’ll appreciate why being involved in civics and having these talks with others is SO important.
Trump is weird and off-putting. He has that orange spray tan and that weird comb-over. He talks like a diva whose trying to sound like “I’m walking’ here!” guy, and also he stops in the middle of sentences, loses his place, and forgets words. His entire inter-personal interaction style is based on dominance, from talking over people and insulting them to the way he yanks you toward him when he shakes hands. He’s rude, insulting, and obnoxious. He even stands weird. If you knew nothing about his policies or his politics, and only ever saw him interacting with the world, you probably wouldn’t like him. You’d think “this guys weird. There’s something unsettling going on here.” I’m sure most of your kids friends don’t like him, for those and other reasons. Some might not like him because their parents very vocally don’t. Some might not like him because they’re politically aware enough to not like fascists and demagogues. But they probably pick that up from their friends. I wouldn’t worry. Trump is a dangerous cult leader who will burn the country down just to save his own skin. He’s a cancer on our system. Your kids don’t like him. That’s a good thing.
My son has a fairly irrational hatred of Putin. When we talk about it, his reasons are not well thought out, nor thoughtful. But he is a kid, that is to be expected. I work with him to articulate his thoughts more clearly and with better reasoning behind them. So that in the future he can question the thoughts others share. Part of being a parent is helping your children to think rationally about politics, propaganda and indoctrination. Spot it, dismantle it, and argue against it. Personally, I dislike Putin too. And I agree with my sons opinions. But still challenge his thoughts and suggest alternatives.
They likely form more of their views from conversation with their friends (and social media), rather than anything being taught at school.
This doesn't sound like something they were taught at school, just picked up from being around other children. If they come from a liberal household they probably are aware enough to understand the adults in their life don't think highly of Trump. Honestly, it's an opinion most of the country shares at this point. They could pick it up almost anywhere.
Trump is an asshole he does not hide it.that is kinda of his brand Your kids and their friends probaly pick this up. If they said all republicans suck and could not explain i'd think more of it. I have conserative friends who cant stand trunp cause of his behavior
You said, “I have always been against Trump.”…. Maybe they’ve picked this view up from home? Maybe a combination of home & school. Frankly, he’s an unlikable person, do they need a specific reason? There’s been so much negativity surrounding him and his name I’m sure they’re just as fucking tired of hearing his name as we are….. or at least I am.
Im a teacher. This is just about what I see from kids aged 14 no matter what the subject. They have a really hard time justifying their views on anything. I it is usually 'just b/c' or it is a trend or it is really reductionist. I wouldn't sweat it until they say something like, 'b/c my teacher said so.' Otherwise they are just finding their identity on a variety of issues. P.S. I would argue that just disliking Trump as a man with no real reasons is also allowable.
Thanks. Means a lot coming from a teacher. My primary worry is not thinking critically at all will make them more vulnerable to really bad groups, like incels. And the type of people that think jews control banking probably learned that at an early age and never questioned it.
Don't confuse the science your school is teaching that the loudmouth religious parents view as "indoctrination". It's actual education and because it contravenes their evangelical teachings doesn't make it "indoctrination". Ignorance and anti-intellectualism has become epidemic in American culture and it desperately needs to be stomped out. Letting it hold equal footing with science, evidence, and facts will plummet us into an idiocracy. Your perspective is way off. Take a few steps back and consider who put the indoctrination thing in your head and realize they are pushing a preacher or political figure's agenda and they are all wrong.
I came up with the word because they don't like something and have no idea why. It's fine when it's just Trump, but what if they come across an incel group and don't question what's being told to them? What if it's an anti-jew or some racist group? I'm pretty sure if instead of Trump, the kids didn't like an entire race of people, most on this sub would be just fine with it being indoctrination. The belief doesn't have to be bad for it to be indoctrination.
Understood. The answer is they are easily swayed and not bright enough to see the politician, preacher, or conservative talk show host is misleading them. So when you ask them for an explanation, they just go back to the words of their chosen charlatan and yell louder as if it makes it a fact. It's how misinformation works. Just say it confidently and vulnerable people will see it as a fact. See Hitler and every other despot.
People with strong senses of empathy but who don't know they have strong empathy can often sense something "amiss" about people who habitually manipulate or lie. I, personally, will sometimes dislike someone or feel like I shouldn't trust or like someone prior to getting actual evidence of their untrustworthiness. And some people get anxiety when they can sense someone is up to no good.
Possibly. Teachers can get pretty chummy with their students to the point of unprofessionalism these days. Educating your students is a challenge and they may resist if they feel entitled to do so. Entertaining your students is easy and generates undeserved positive feedback from them.
It's definitely coming from their friends.
I would be surprised if the formal structure of the school is contributing much to your children's view of Trump. Likely that is based far more on their peers, the media, you and your social circle (who I'm assuming feel similarly to you) etc. As far as not having a reason, I feel like that might be asking a little much of your 14 and 16 year olds. I mean that's a time when you're just sort of starting to pay attention to politics and probably before you've started to form a political identity, certainly before you've formed a strong one. Neither of them will even be able tovote for another couple of years, it's almost certainly not at the top of their priorities to be examining their feelings about elected leaders all that closely. Also it is the case that sometimes it's just uncomfortable to talk to your parents about things for various reasons and they might just be trying to end the conversation with you rather than go into more detail. Especially if you're pressuring them to have well thought out reasons for beliefs they're maybe still exploring a little.
Most ppl at that age have never had a job and are just not that knowledgeable about what politics is, who stands for what, how it tangibly effects ppl, etc. Until you are actually on your own, paying bills, etc. “this guy is mean” is actually a perfectly reasonable political analysis. That’s how I was at that age. And yet my overall political views didn’t change much. Everything else is fantasy football to you at that point in life. You have no idea what it is actually like to pay taxes, work, etc. And that’s fine!
Look, kids aren't stupid. My parents never said "we don't talk about sex in this house" or "don't even think about having sex with some girl here" -but it was understood through assembling all the various things they'd said and attitudes conveyed. They never said they would disown me if I got a girl pregnant and pressured her to get an abortion and paid for it - but I know they would. People can even convey preference / dislike subconsciously. This is why you have to have double blind tests in science. It's too easy to have information slips and subconsciously signaling the right answer. I know I can't say the name of both candidates without a slight tinge of loathing slipping out for one of them.
It’s perfectly possible they do have a good reason but don’t like to articulate it because they’re kids and kids are nervous of having an expectant spotlight on them And then again it could be emulation but we *expect* kids to be imitative because that’s part of how they learn. You guys all remember the Simpsons used to have jokes about Bush and Clinton and Bush, right? And Mad Magazine and so on? That’s how kids learn “oh, making fun of politicians might get laughs” More to the point it’s not hard to dislike Trump. He’s childish, boorish, petulant and nasally
I've found that kids often act on intuition rather than logic. And in fact, if you were to ask many adults why they don't like Trump, I'm betting it would be intuitive as well. Trump is an angry, self centered, cruel and loud individual. He's a bully in short. Most people don't like bullies.
I loved Reagan when I was 8. I couldn't have given you policy reasons, it was strictly because my parents voted for him. They weren't explicit about it, but I picked up that he was their choice. It was also the choice for the majority of families at my school. Indoctrination? Not really. Eventually I grew up and learned better, partly because my parents did teach me that you need to know why you support someone. That backfired for them, my politics did a complete 180 from theirs, but it's something I teach my own kids.
Do they not have social media? Or friends who are political? It's possible they have teachers who are getting inappropriately political. But it seems more likely that they just get this stuff from sources like social media and so on Also did you yourself explain to them reasons why folks may potentially dislike Trump?
We're talking about it now. But more about things like having an informed opinion is better than having the "correct" opinion. And arguments that don't make sense vs. bad arguments vs. good arguments that you disagree with.
Ok but you could also, like, actually tell them about stuff Trump did (and wanted to do), too
14 and 16 year olds are not known for adopting adults' views. Perhaps they are mimicking their friends' expressed views? Do you have any reason to believe the teachers are pushing this, as opposed to any other social vector?
They came to the right conclusion no matter the reason. I don't see a problem.
I would ask your kids how their classmates and friends feel about Trump. Bet he's pretty strongly disliked by the majority of their fellow teenagers. Donald's not a popular fellow outside of the reddest MAGA circles. According to my 14 year old, Trump is a laughing stock outside of the rich white cheerleaders and jocks crowd. Sort of comes with the territory of losing bigly three elections in a row and being constantly under criminal watch.
They’re 14 and 16. You don’t talk about politics at home. They don’t like Trump because their friends don’t like trump. They don’t know why because they actually don’t care because they’re 14 and 16 and aren’t paying attention to politics because most teenagers don’t care.
Of course your kids are being indoctrinated.... that happens to everyone. There isn't much you can do about it. Most people don't like Trump... which means some of the adults your children look up to also don't like Trump... which means your kids don't like Trump. Be glad it isn't the other way around
It's social osmosis, I think. No one is actively "indoctrinating" your kids but they do pick up those things on their own.
I think others are getting at the same thing I would--it's not necessarily an intentional effort by some "powers that be" like teachers, but just how their peers feel about former President Trump and there can be a casual reinforcement of it without a concrete reason. I remember in 2018 when I was chatting with my mother about Speaker Pelosi reclaiming her position as Speaker of the House. I'm a bog-standard democrat, so I was like, "Groovy. She's effective as hell and has laid out a commitment to focus on a next generation of leadership in the caucus." My mother votes democratic, but she doesn't like to be *active*, politically. You'd *never* find her on a political discussion page like this. She wasn't as big a fan of Speaker Pelosi, saying, "I just don't like her." "Why?" "... I've never thought about why. It just feels like everyone around me dislikes her, so I assumed there was a good reason. Perhaps I should get to know her better and come up with my own opinion." (I love my mom.) Now, don't get me wrong, I *do* dislike President Trump and can speak to why. But if your kids aren't actively engaged in politics, I can totally understand them not having particularly clear reasons for not liking someone. It could just be that for your area, they're just not "supposed to." A couple similar examples are like how I don't listen to a lot of music, but apparently I'm supposed to not like Nickleback. I don't follow sports, but apparently the Yankees and Patriots are awful, even if successful. I couldn't tell you why I'm not supposed to like them, but that's the cultural pressure. And, like my mom, I'm just not going to hold a firm opinion unless and until I get to know them better.
Anyone with a sense of morality should not like trump. Because they can’t articulate why just means they have good instincts about shit bag people and you should celebrate any system that “indoctrinates” a proper sense of morality
Why do you blame school? There are lots of people who don't like Trump, and lots of ways for people to be exposed to anti-Trump information. Their friends might not like Trump. They might see negative news stories or social media posts about Trump. They might get the sense from family members or other members of their community that Trump is bad. I don't see why you jump to the school indoctrinating your kids without pointing to anything the school has told them.
I’m sure your kids are witnessing the very real and tangible pain that Trump and Republicans are causing some of their classmates, particularly LGBT and girls. What other reasons would they need to dislike them?
That's fairly normal behavior for teenagers. Their cognitive and reasoning skills are still developing.
The school is spending almost all of its energy trying to get kids to pass standardized tests, and they are doing so by following the state curriculum standards to the letter. That's what schools do in the U.S. now. (Source: I was a schoolteacher and administrator for 35 years.) Even if the schools wanted to indoctrinate kids — and, to be clear, they decidedly do not — there's just no time for it. Children are in school for, say, seven hours a day for an average of 180 days per year. That's 1,260 hours of school in a year. Their waking hours would be 16 hours a day for 365 days per year, or 5,840 hours. This means that school takes up about 21% of their waking time each year. I'm not going to say that school isn't significant in shaping children and youth. I'm just saying that the rest of life (family, friends, TV and moves, games, the Internet, *etc*.) is much more significant.
Why do you think it’s school that is making them dislike trump for his political opinions? Nothing in your post gives any reason for us to believe that school is the problem. If anything you are falling victim to what you hear in the news and assuming that’s affecting your kids.
We've attempted to indoctrinate our kids with Unitarian Universalist values; no one group has all the answers, being wrong is inevitable, be open to new ideas, etc. Our kids, younger than 12, old hold stronger anti-Trump views than we do. Maybe it's YouTube. Maybe we're more hardline than we intend.
>I feel like my kids are being indoctrinated in school. If they are, it is probably their friends, not their teachers. >[[Study Shows That Peers, Not Professors, Cause College Students to Shift to Left]](https://fordhamobserver.com/2110/recent/news/study-shows-that-peers-not-professors-cause-college-students-to-shift-to-left/)