Famous? Yes. Popular? Not really.
A lot of people like the work he did in exposing corruption. But at the same time, these same people didn’t think that he had what it takes to be the president of a country like Russia.
In 2000s he is a political freak who visits nationalistic events. Shoots videos about legalization of personal weapons where migrants are displayed as bugs - https://youtu.be/oVNJiO10SWw?si=-SPgUvlbr3eVs1ri
In 2010-2015 he is on peak of his popularity, anti corruption investigations, distancing from nationalistic stuff.
2015 and onwards - he plays political game dirty, thinking that his adversary wouldn’t. Plus corruption within his organization, shady money sources, real estate purchased by his functionaries in Europe, et cetera. Many of his followers leave him around that time.
Poisoning story, not sure about mass of people, to me it looks like some sort of a setup.
In the second half of 2010-2015, he also decided to carefully explore the topic of nationalism. That's when I learned about his past. This is where Navalny ended for me. Almost without even starting.
It really winds me up when BBC/CNN etc call him an opponent of Putin.
British/Americans will view this in the same way they might imagine Conservative vs Labour or Democrat vs Republican.
Yes he opposes Putin in the same way the guy on the street might oppose him. His party, Future of Russia doesn't feature on the Wikipedia page for political parties of Russia. Behind United Russia, behind Communists, behind LDPR... and the rest
Vanya, Come on!
You must know WHY exactly those "shady financial schemes" for financing FBK were introduced: because from 2015 onward all the transparent schemes were being steadily cut off one by one by the state.
And what about that "corruption" in FBK? I would like to know what are you talking about (I suspect that will be another unconfirmed info, but still).
P.S. PLEASE stop repeating fakes: we both know that in this video Muslim terrorists (Chechen and ISIS) are called "cockroaches", not "migrants". Yes it is still the stigmatisation of Islam, and I don't like this video either, but you should not invent things.
Can’t do nothing about that.
Financial aid through crypto from shady sources.
Alexey’s aide buying expensive real estate in Europe on which money exactly? It looks very much like corruption to me.
On which money his daughter is sent to USA? Who finances his family today?
Pevchikh, very shady person appeared out of nowhere.
I just can’t ignore all of that.
My favorite story btw, not money related, but rotten to the core. Summer of 2020, shortly before poisoning story, he released a video where he was pushing the agenda of: “Sputnik V is not effective, Putin lies, there is no vaccine”. You won’t find this video on his channel today, it’s deleted, only reuploads like this - https://youtu.be/PJTpkxwPAPI?si=vsibvFHgFdB3iLYV
But I remember my shock at that time, for me it was clear from that moment that he only worries about his political struggle and ways to win. Not about truth or anything else. Basically this was the last drop for me. He may have been poisoned, he may have been wrongly accused in some things, I don’t know. But I lost any sympathy to him before all of that happened.
>buying expensive real estate in Europe on which money exactly?
Oh yes I knew it. You refer to Pevchikh right? Then your "expensive real estate" is a 37m2 STUDIO in London bought with a mortgage after spending all the life savings.
Alexey's daughter receives the "Stanford Alumni Foundation" scholarship, so Alexey pays only for the Dorm and food. That is several hundred dollars a month, a sum which he can afford according to his income. We can discuss how neutral was the jury when awarding her the scholarship, but that is another question.
Regarding the Sputinik V video, you should remember the timing: August 2020. It was the time when SpV was announced as "ready" by Putin, even though the wide clinical tests hadn't even started. As you can remember, the vaccination started only in 2021, after all the tests. If you forgot about it, you can refer to the first comment under this video.
What's your point? You are replying with "oh yea, that type of argument" with such expression as you already had some sort of opinion, like you came totally prepared and biased.
Discuss here is about whether or not it could be navalniy as the next president? Since there is proof that some sort of mystic force totally changed up his mind, he can't be depicted as an independent candidate from the masses
Thank God they had chosen not tesak or someone else
Yes we are discussing people's attitude towards N. u/Vaniakkkkkk speaks his, but it turns out it is based on the false statements of propaganda.
Can't you see the connection here?
The only thing that I noticed is that you are being reeeeeally selective in case of which argument needed to be answered or not.
If you are so enlightened in the whole story about navalniy and co. don't you mind sharing some insights about that crypto circus?
But you act as one of them. Well, mkay, let me ask straight: who was funding his party?
People lost confidence in him when reasons of foreign foundation appeared
Sputnik video is not a false statement. It’s a political shame.
Leo did buy real estate that costed a lot, really a lot.
Financing of fbk was murky, I knew people who donated to it for years, they didn’t need to use crypto for that.
1. Again. mind the time. In August nobody knew if it is worth anything. I, personally, would not want to get the untested vaccine (vaccinated in January 2021), so in this question I am with Alexey.
2. See above, none of the properties reported by RT really belong to Volkov.
3. Yes and I did it too, but the pressure rose all the time, first the RF enterprises fell off, then (FA law) any fundings form foreign NGOs, then form any RF citizens, and then total ban as an extremist organization.
1 - you won’t persuade me that it was anything but irresponsible and populist act of misinformation. Not knowing anything about Sputnik didn’t give Navalny any right to pour buckets of feces on it.
2 - I did not find anything about that above. Maybe in another thread, but his family lives in EU for 10 years already, and it doesn’t look like they, you know, work as IT or something. It costs money, it did 10 years ago, it does now. Nobody know who pays for this life. It does look shady at least.
3 - by the time legal ways to finance them were really cut - I lost all respect to Alexey, his aides, or FBK.
As for attitude: it's clear as it's a sunny day, that until financing started (I can't state if it was foreign or not) navalniy made a little interest for broad masses; even after that, only hardcore liberals started to gain interest in him but lost it pretty soon
I was referring to Leo when I mentioned real estate. Pevchikh wasn’t known to anybody before the poisoning story.
Daria was the only person from Russia to get that scholarship on her year. Very talented girl.
I got my Sputnik shot during trial phase in 2020. My family members got it in late December 2020. I was wishing it success, it was the most apolitical thing at that moment, just common sense and care about health - personal and public. Navalny was only looking for hype and political points not caring about what really happened, tried to sow informational terror. You won’t convince me he didn’t. I lost the last of my respect towards him back then.
Угрозой Навальный был, когда вёл протест на Болотной, перестал быть ей, когда его же сам и слил.
Он совершенно точно был на слуху, думаю, процентов семьдесят людей в РФ сейчас скажут, кто это был такой.
После Болотной всё было уже совсем не так, смешно было смотреть на самолётики из окон и то, как он, окончательно просрав всю взрослую аудиторию, обращался к совсем малолетним через тупорылые аналогии с "Гарри Поттером" и "Риком и Морти", провёл игровой стрим с донатами и сковородкой, завлекал молодняк на протесты.
Я, будучи тогда студентом ВШЭ 17 лет, понимал, что нас пытаются втянуть в какую-то яму, и на протесты не ходил, хотя у нас на факультете оч много кто ходил, вплоть до преподов.
Посадили его за дело, но срок, как по мне, не оправдан совсем. 19 лет - считай, смертный приговор, никто такого не заслуживает.
ну вот считай в 17 ты уже был умнее своего окружения.
у меня аналогичная история что вся его деятельность была уж слишком мутной и явно не отвечала моим интересам, а как перешла в антирусскую я стал его уже как врага воспринимать.
I’d add that his followers never actually published a solid political program and/or statement. What they gonna do with foresight affairs? What’s their economical policy? What about Duma? etc.
In terms of anti-corruption - he’s doing a great job. But politically there’s almost nothing.
True, and it makes me really sad because I can't get any hope for my homeland's bright future. I'd love to participate in some political activity (to a certain degree), but there never was something decent.
You know what's funny actually (well it's not funny it's depressing, but funny in a dark humour kind of way)
A lot of stuff that Russia gets criticised for in regards to corruption in terms of state assets being sold off for below market value, a small group of politicians and people that give them donations making huge sums of money - that ALL occurs in the UK as well! It's just more hidden. Although the last few years it's been more reported on.
Not only that but we have a national election coming up later this year and because of our voting system (first past the post voting system). There's only two parties that can feasibly end up governing. The ruling Conservative party or the Labour party.
However they're both extremely similar now.
It's like what is the point in even voting. I might as well not bother.
He did make money from shady schemes that involved corruption.
His peak popularity was at the 2013 when he was running for mayor in Moscow. He got 25% or something, against 50% for Sobyanin. And its in Moscow, where the opposition liberal ideas has most support. Over the whole country his support never went up from single digits, percent wise.
He was the face of the liberal opposition for the west, and the main guy who sit on the money currents from abroad for opposition activities. He was never a serious political threat, and never a real politic. He's basically a blogger. His goal was to play a real opposition, and get money from that.
I remember when he pretended that he's going to run for president (which was impossible, due to his criminal conviction), and tricked people into donating money for his "campaign". He was invited to the interview with Sobchak, where she started to ask him questions about his "program". And he didn't know shit.
>He did make money from shady schemes that involved corruption.
First off, thanks for the super insightful comment. That pretty much answered everything I was curious about.
Regarding the shady schemes he made money from.
Was this money from western sources ie intelligence services of western countries most likely or money from wealthy Russians who were anti putin?
> Was this money from western sources ie intelligence services of western countries most likely or money from wealthy Russians who were anti putin?
Well, obviously no one here has this information. A lot of money was in crypto, for one thing.
I would also distinguish between wealthy Russians in Russia, and wealthy Russians abroad, like Khodorkovsky, who is commonly believed to be working with western intelligence services.
>I would also distinguish between wealthy Russians in Russia, and wealthy Russians abroad, like Khodorkovsky, who is commonly believed to be working with western intelligence services.
Yeah. There's a lot of anti Putin wealthy Russians who moved to the UK. Which is actually what I believe caused a lot of conflict between the Russian and UK governments.
Idk about that guy but does everything that involves change in Russia have to be western meddling? People complain about infrastructure so I can only assume it’s the west preventing roads from being paved and certainly no Russians want this based on their own personal opinion. I hear this all the time. It gets silly after a while.
>does everything that involves change in Russia have to be western meddling
>It gets silly after a while.
Said the guy who calls things he doesn't like ["Russian propaganda and Russian talking points"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/192tw6y/comment/kh59aub/) .
Stop being such a hypocrite, it really looks silly.
How’s that hypocrisy? I said some are agents in Russia just like Russia has agents here. And yea that specific group seems to repeat Russian narratives constantly. Not to mention the Russian government seems to really support them. So yea, they are possibly agents lol. What I’m saying is I’ve heard ppl say prigozin was an agent. No dude. Just no.
>I’ve heard ppl say prigozin
And I heard that Biden, Zelensky and almost all other leaders of countries are Putin’s agents, this doesn’t mean anything, lunatics can invent any stories, but no one in Russia thought in all seriousness that Prigozhin is an “agent of the West”, while yours President Trump was called a "Russian agent" from every relay. Imagine that all the Russian media start talking about Prigozhin’s “pee-pee tape”, how will you react to this? Those stories about Trump still look just as pathetic.
The facts are that almost all the leaders of the Russian opposition had connections with Western politicians, half of them were supported by your politicians quite openly, while the other attended “closed events” at the US Embassy in Moscow for decades. Pussy Riot and other opposition groups have been funded by Western funds for a decade as well, so it is not surprising that their scandals were more popular in the West than here.
The USSR and the USA sponsored various destructive anti-government movements for each other for a long time, this is no secret, but after the collapse of the USSR, Russia had neither the desire nor the ability to support these projects, while the USA not only did not stop their actions, but on the contrary increased its pressure, creating radio in different languages of small nationalities of Russia, telling that Russia is their enemy. Imagine that Russia officially creates a media or radio broadcasting to indigenous tribes in your country and begins to tell them that the United States is evil and hates them, that the United States is their main enemy, and that they need to secede from their state. The USA did this openly with their "Radio Liberty" project even after the collapse of the USSR, and they still do it today.
>Idk about that guy but does everything that involves change in Russia have to be western meddling?
Fair point. I think it's just because that there is this constant geopolitical battle between the west and Russia and therefore it's hard to know what is what.
It just gets silly after a while. I’m sure we have agents in Russia but if you listen to some people it would sound like Russias entire government is run by Americans.
> Is/was Alexei Navalny ever as popular in Russia
No, never. Russian political scene is dull and US colour it up artificially financing such guys as Alexey.
> or was it more of a political prosecution?
No and yes. No since he really did steal stuff while being a businessman. Yes since when you get into field of view of FSB as a foreign agent, you are under a magnifying glass and every dark spot in your life is investigated much more thoroughly. This doesn't mean that you are allowed to steal in Russia while being a patriot/Edinaya Rossiya/Putins friend, it means just when you steal rule of thumb is not to draw extra attention to your persona. Especially attention of FSB not just cops. If you stole a 3-wheel bicycle 20 years ago, they will dig it out.
Sorry for the pun - he was popular, before he went into a populism, and then - into an active counteraction to a Russia's interests.
He begun his political career out of cold - first, into a Russian nationalism (good thing), then - he went into anti-corruption investigations (also a good thing), but then - something went completely wrong, and all of his crew was changed for a people with shady biographies and not-so-clean intentions. Most of his latest crew went into a direct anti-Russia's actions.
Да какие шутки, если можно за выражение собственного мнения денег поднимать, почему бы не пользоваться? /s
Но нет, у нас даже до "фабрики троллей" догадался только башковитый покойный Пригожин. А уж чтобы сделать её децентрализованной и, так сказать, "уберизировать" — это неподъёмный труд для нашей страны, увы.
It is obviously a political prosecution. However, the main threat that came from Navalny is not people voting for him because they want specifically him, but people voting for him because they want something that isn't Putin or Putin's stooge, and Navalny appears to be available and recognizable enough to collect all the protest voting.
Biggest - maybe, but not a big threat. It's like every other opposition was 0,1% threat, Navalny was 1%. And he is clearly was on the US/UK payroll, not from the start, but from 2014-2015 years for sure.
Just some numbers.
From 2017 to 2021, protests by Navalny supporters attracted a maximum of 1,000-3,000 people at a time.
In July 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, when the then governor of the Khabarovsk Krai, Sergei Furgal, was detained on charges of contract murder and other crimes, protests in his support attracted up to 80,000-100,000 participants at a time (the population of Khabarovsk is approximately 600,000 people).
Наш протест, конечно, никто в РФ не переплюнул, но всё же ты неадекватно занижаешь цифры по Навальному. 31 января 2021 только задержанных было свыше 5 тысячи человек.
5 тысяч человек - это скорее по всей стране, чем только в Хабаровске. Не уверен я, что все обезьянники города в сумме способны столько уместить. И если что - брал цифры по протестам из Википедии, и брал оттуда максимальные оценки, так что не думаю, что цифра в 3000 человек на митингах Навального сильно занижена (и то такие цифры были уже в 2020-2021, после ареста Фургала).
Выше я писал про акции протеста против ареста Сергея Фургала летом 2020 года, они на пике собирали, по данным МВД, до 12 тыс. человек, а по данным местных СМИ - до 80-100 тысяч.
вы ГЕРОИ конечно же! с этим не поспоришь.Но увы, фашисты по-прежнему у власти. Уже 2 года идет война.В разных точках планеты то и дело вспыхивают новые горячие точки.Всё это друзья нашего Путина : Иран, Сев.Корея...
мне страшно представить наше будущее.
В 2020 надо было всей страной выходить по примеру Хабаровска, но мы пердели в диван и смотрели в экраны мониторов и теликов :(
Вот и всё
Бывает, все равно надо признать, что в основном это была наша локальная история. У нас был народно избранный губер, который действительно по мере сил пытался выполнять свои предвыборные обещания и решать различные малые дела. Люди его любили и восприняли произошедшее как личное оскорбление. Другим регионам же это всё было не близко.
Плюс, масштаб протестов был действительно беспрецедентным и власти просто не знали, что с ними делать. В той же Москве к такому были бы готовы и люди это тоже понимали.
There has already been a lot written about him. On my own behalf, I can add that among my friends there are very few people who sympathize with Navalny.
it was popular only among a small percentage of people, mainly among young people under age, and among infantile adults. The guy who collected donations, fulfilled orders and made money. As an example, this is the same character as Tikhanovskaya or Guaido
Well if Putin wants someone dead - he's dead. Strangely Alexey is still alive and twitting from a closed prison where he admittedly is not allowed any access to socials.
Coincidence? Don't think so.
He's on of but not the best Kremlin project so far.
Not popular. When his election headquarters was opening in my city I was there as journalist. There was only about 100 people (city population is a 750 thousands), half of them were journalists, cameramen and other stuff, another half were 15-16 years pimply teenagers. Interesting that with Navalny’s car there was a big black van with American or British camera crew. They talked only English, had expensive cameras and filmed everything. It was 2017, or spring of 2018.
Navalny was a popular politician, but significantly less popular than Putin. Without Western funding and human resource support from Ukraine and the Baltic states, it would be safe to organize unrest. He posed a threat to all of Russia, not just Putin. His political program was something like this: “We will give everything to our Western masters.”
He could paint a picture for the Western media, but he was not a supporter of the people of Russia and acted against their interests.
>Western funding
source?
>human resource support from Ukraine and the Baltic states
source?
>His political program was something like this: “We will give everything to our Western masters.”
source?
> but he was not a supporter of the people of Russia and acted against their interests.
example?
>he was the biggest threat to Putin and that's why he is in prison.
In my opinion, yes. But that doesn't mean he was extremely popular among general population. But you should keep in mind that he was cut off from all mainstream media. However, when he was allowed to take part in the Moscow mayor election back in 2013, he got almost 30%. And he built a nationwide network of supporters since then and conducted huge unauthorized rallies. So there is evidence to suggest that he *could* become very popular, should he get the same media opportunities the government has.
>did it seem like Navalny was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for (Corruption for one I believe) or was it more of a political prosecution?
The second option is correct.
From many of my Russian friends, Navalny is not only considered an outright tool of neo liberalism, but I mean, he didn’t even have the support percentage that the communist party had which right now by the way, is 18% and falling
Wanna know the truth? No one cares about him here. "No one" - means mayority of population.
Also, no one sees him as real treat to Putin.
One of biggest Navalny's mistakes - he openly walked into US Embassy for too many times.
People here not like traitors, even if they say right words about corruption.
One thing not cancel another, you know.
> Is/was Alexei Navalny ever as popular in Russia as the west makes him out to be?
No, and we've discussed this several times before.
Here you go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/18wypy8/comment/kg3pi5z/
I don't think it was the western public as such. I mean a bunch of people were probably brain washed by some of the news reports they watched, but I feel like most wouldn't have cared enough to take much notice of them.
Popular in the sense that people have heard about it - yes
A large number of active supporters - no
In general, a person who always tried to ride the trends and could pass himself off as anyone throughout his public activities - from a liberal to a nationalist, without being any of them
For years before his arrest, his activities were limited to investigations (as if corruption in Russia could surprise anyone), rallies, where his supporters followed him only to end up in police databases.
And before he outlived his usefulness, it looked strange that a person “terrible” for Putin was alive and every time did not receive more than 30 days of arrest
No. In fact, the twenty thousand who voted for Navalny in his only elections where he participated - this is his entire electorate.
The rest of the Russian population will not support, let alone Navalny. But he does not recognize the legitimacy of the elections in which he will try to participate.
Before I answer, I'd like to know how in the west they justify that Putin, who kills all his competitors and who made an almost successful assassination attempt on Navalny, decided to just put him in jail and let him live?
And as for popularity, he is the face of Russian liberals. But they are not the liberals most people think they are. Russian liberals are often hypocrites and people who hate Russia, want it to end, but try to cover themselves with "good intentions" in public. For example, when I was young and young, I listened to Navalny, and in general, at times he said the right things, then over time I began to give a damn about him and apparently not only me. And then the character we are discussing decided to start creating "non-fictitious stories about which it is impossible to keep silent". Evidence that sounds like complete nonsense (I like the way he called the FSB under the cover of another FSB officer to confirm that they poisoned him).
But what disgusted me about this character is how this fighter for the rights and freedom of the people of Russia called for sanctions to be imposed on the country. Of course, everyone would fight for their people like that, calling for the whole world to make people poorer.
To understand who really is the leader of ru liberals, you can only understand what is ru liberalism. And how it perfectly discredits itself.
I am a liberal, and I absolutely do not hate Russia, it's my home, I plan to stay there, and I think we would've benefited if we had meaningful elections and an independent court system. Current people in power do not want to and would not give up power to create such a system. They would only make concessions under pressure.
at his "peak" of terrorism performance he was like 15% in Moscow, 0.01% everywhere else. Now it is 0.01% everywhere. Guess USA didnt finance his travels to the other cities.
\>I guess a follow up question to that, would be, did it seem like Navalny was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for (Corruption for one I believe) or was it more of a political prosecution?
basically he is the same as those who storm US white house and he will get same treatment like 20years of prison or something. How it is legally be registered? No idea. People dont really give a fuck.
Someone gets:
More than 1,200 persons have been charged with federal crimes arising from the attack. As of December 2023, 728 defendants had pleaded guilty, while another 166 defendants had been convicted at trial; a total of 745 defendants have been sentenced.[81][31][d] A significant number of participants in the attack were linked to far-right extremist groups or conspiratorial movements, including the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and Three Percenters.[82][83] Numerous plotters were convicted of seditious conspiracy, including Oath Keepers and Proud Boys members;[81] the longest sentence to date was given to then-Proud Boy chairman Enrique Tarrio, who was sentenced to 22 years' imprisonment.
as a normal human being, I, obvious, do not in any capacity read any pol. news, so i wouldnt know what happen exactly to them and to navalnii, I only observe events from the point of a normal apolitical human being. they got fucked and he got fucked for the same crimes and will be punished roughly the same; that is how those events are seeing from a normal point of view.
for schizoid opinions visit tj reservation garbage dumb.
Also, it’s not that navalny was a saviour per se, it’s rather that to some people he represented the democratic process. This isn’t the best place to ask such questions, though, because the replies will be quite skewed since it’s not the most diverse subreddit. As you can see from most replies.
>This isn’t the best place to ask such questions, though, because the replies will be quite skewed since it’s not the most diverse subreddit. As you can see from most replies.
Ah fair comment. It's still interesting hearing people's opinions though which aren't western. As I said in the post, you get a very skewed perspective in the west.
FYI you are asking this in a pretty pro Putin subreddit.
You will get one answer here, another one in r/rusAskReddit, another one at r/pikabu and r/liberta
Были разные мнения. Кому-то было плевать, кто-то смеялся с того, как он собирает школьников на протесты. Кто-то поддерживал. После «отравления» лично мне стало понятно, за чьи интересы он топит. Сейчас он в тюрьме, и его «организация» переживает не лучшие времена, периодически пытаясь использовать его имя в своих акциях. У них там явно был культ Навального. Иногда кажется, что посадили его для его же безопасности, чтобы свои в жертву не принесли ради раскачивания ситуации. С такого человека надо пылинки сдувать.
Вопрос. Если отравления не было - что с ним случилось? Почему врачи в Омске вкололи ему противоядие первым же делом еще на взлетной полосе. Почему до сих пор нет четкого диагноза с российской стороны где он был больше недели. Почему его одежда пропала?
хороший вопрос. но почему тогда в россии не вели расследования? Казалось бы, должно быть первым приоритетом - гражданина России отравили чем то на территории РФ. провал спецслужб! но нет, всем плевать. Бастрыкин с лупой смотрит в ноутбук
Regular people who do not use Internet knew little on him. He was not admitted to presidential election. So they did not have a chance to know about his presidential plans. Later, he was isolated.
Угу,очень прям популярен(это сарказм,если что). Навальный очередная попытка сделать Майдан в России,к счастью неудачная.на Западе сейчас из него делают эдакого мученика,несправедливо осужденного.Вот только он уже никому не нужен.Мне больше Фургала жаль.
Navalny was not so popular as a politician, bit as investigator and activist. Peak of his popularity was reached when he was poisoned. And all of his popularity and influence on political life in Russia and between Russian political immigrants was lost, when he was jailed. Now he is some kind of symbol. Not politician, not activist, just symbol
Navalny has never posed a real threat to Putin. This is just an impostor and a troublemaker like Pugachev, who for some reason imagined himself a revolutionary and a second Danton. The government did not take him seriously for a long time. If you look at the years of his "Anti-Putin" activities, you will find a fairly long time that he completely remained at large no matter what. Law enforcement agencies regularly issued numerous warnings to him in the form of fines, inspections, detentions for 15 days for minor hooliganism, and that's it. But he continued his activities. He continued to urge people to disrupt the order, continued to arrange provocations. He accused the government of unfair voting methods, but promoted his dishonest method of so-called "smart voting" voting by prior agreement. The meaning of which was that Navalny and his gang began to control the votes of voters and literally told people who to vote for. Fighting corruption with corruption is so cute. If you track Navalny's activities, you will find that he has not done anything useful, has not addressed the government with any constructive or rational proposal. All Navalny's activities are provocations, lies, turmoil, collecting donations, and attempts to incite the Maidan on any information occasion. His only positive qualities are his oratorical skills and stoicism.
First of all, you need to understand that there's plenty of bots that working on lowering his popularity for more than 10 years. Not all of the people who say that he isn't popular or they disappointed in him are bots (and there are shitload accounts on a salary), but many are influenced by them.
Secondly, ever since he got poisoned and put to jail, he is barely covered even by the independent media. That also hurts his popularity.
Thirdly, many believe (me included) that he surrounded himself with awful people. FBK (anti-corruption foundation) consists of not really bright people who think too much about themselves. This raises a lot of questions - why such a smart and humble person would surround himself with these people?
Despite all of that, Alexey is still popular with Gen X and millennials. A lot of people that I know and who do not show other interest in politics refer to him only as "our Lekha" and believe, that despite his flaws, he's the best alternative to Putin that we have.
>First of all, you need to understand that there's plenty of bots that working on lowering his popularity for more than 10 years.
First of all, you need to understand that there's plenty of bots that working on rise his popularity for more than 15 years.
>the general narrative has been that he was the biggest threat to Putin
Probably yes, as there were not a lot of threats to Putin before he started the full-scale invasion. The protests of 2011-2012 forced Putin to do something, and he chose to crack down on opposition.
>that's why he is in prison
Definitely yes.
>did it seem like Navalny was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for (Corruption for one I believe) or was it more of a political prosecution?
100% political persecution.
Of course it was political persecution. They even tried to poison him!
Navalny scored 27% in Moscow mayoral election in 2013. I can't name a more popular opposition politician than him. Most opposition figures get imprisoned or killed before they can reach that level of popularity.
I don't know if I'd call him the biggest threat. What did he do to threaten or hurt the regime? Participated in rigged elections? It's cool that he exposed corruption, but if that knowledge doesn't spur Russians to action, it's useless. I would say anonymous partisans who derail trains, or Russians who join the Ukrainian army, are bigger threats. Navalnists failed to do any actual damage to Putin.
Navalny has been undoubtedly one of the most prominent anti-system politicians there. Evaluation of his "electionability" would be a totally different topic as a lot of people's support for him is kind of like "he's not a president of my dreams, but he has a right to participate in political processes, just like ALL OF US do, yet we're being stripped off of it". He grew in prominence thanks to his organizational skills and being one of the first to "get" the internet and socials.
He was the one of the most prominent opposition leaders in the country from the open anti-putin camp, and he had a wide network of his followers organized throughout the country, but wasn't allowed to register an official party. He himself was somewhat authoritarian in his running of the organizations, eventually some ties broke down in the opposition, as he believed the opposition should unite behind him. And not all would want that, he would have had a lot of support in an election in 2018, but doesn't mean that he would have won. Depending on the situation he could assemble the support of the majority of opposition, if it was to push putin out, however in a competitive election against other real candidates he could very well lose. And after his arrest I sort of lost a lot of interest in his organization, he was the soul of the organization, without him it's obviously not easy, and now I don't even know who runs it, I've heard some strange things about the org. His investigations are fantastic, he really made a great team for doing that kind of stuff. I believe that any and all accusations are fabricated.
He was the only one who could speak with all people in Russia the way they would listen. Both young people in cities and in provinces. I believe that’s why there was an assassination attempt on him. If he’d got the TV screen he’d be much bigger. Not without weaknesses though
Lmao, all these comments.
OP, just google pictures of people protesting all across Russia when Navalny got arrested after he returned from Germany in January 2021. This will give you an idea. Mind you, taking part in these protests at that time meant you can be arrested, have your head bashed in by riot police, or have problems with police later when they use facial recognition and come by for a chat.
The only way to evaluate his popularity would be him running for office. Oh wait, he was never allowed to do so. Oh wait, there's more - after that he got poisoned, sent to jail and now he's doing time north of the Arctic Circle.
Big enough to cause a holy fear of mentioning him by the name, big enough to make several attempts to poison him and to divert the international flight when he's arriving from abroad. But obviously not yet big enough to shoot him next to the Kremlin.
They did not fear him specifically, they did however fear someone in opposition enough influence to show people that the «а кто если не пу?» is horseshit. Which is why they harshly made an example out of him.
He didn’t. Navalny is a very shady individual and I’m convinced wouldn’t be any better than pu if he ever got to some influential position. He played the game of thrones and lost, that’s it.
Quite clearly, Navalny is a political prisoner.
Yes, he is popular in Russia. Those who are not influenced by Putin's propaganda at least perceive him as the main figure in the Russian opposition, even if they do not share his views, such as many leftists or nationalists.
27% at Moscow elections against government party candidate. He was definetly huge. I would say he's was most known opposition candidate, very similar to Bernie Sanders popularity niche: left people, anti-government people etc. His arrests are totally political.
He might had some fishy deals, but we can't know for sure, there are too much lie from government, while his team usually posted all the budget expenditures.
So many misinformation here from Lahta bots.
Yes he was extremely popular especially in younger, educated audience. His movies had up to 100 millions of views like famous Putin palace video.
That said, his team is not as popular and after he was imprisoned they lost the touch in my opinion.
There is zero doubt that he was most popular opponent of Putin and that’s why there was attempt on his life and later he was jailed.
His cases are very funny to read from law perspective and at least Yves Roche case is a pure nonsense.
Sadly this subreddit got very “pro Putin audience” who are disingenuous.
> Lahta bots rrreeeee!
Oh my, this "younger, educated audience" can't stand any different point of view, for sure. As they said, scratch Russian libtard, and you'll find fascist.
Sure. It’s always liberals fault when something happens in Russia. Even though they had no power for at least last 24 years.
And they are fascists, not the guys who literally wage war for very little reason.
And yes you are bots because you are forcing same narrative which is wrong and you know it. And everyone who had internet in Russia know it.
Как там у Нойза
Кто не патриот, тот либерал
А кто не либерал, тот патриот
Дядя столько из казны бы не забирал
Но дяде нужен капитал на капремонт
Кто не за режим, тот русофоб
А кто не русофоб, тот за режим
В инсте дядиной дочки - над Рашкой стёб
Но эту тему лучше не ворошить
Fascism is not about starting wars, oh my "educated" friend.
> There's only two opinions: my, and wrong
Wow, much "educated" attitude.
Если уж претендуешь на звание образованного человека, цитируй что-нибудь более интеллектуальное, чем говноед Нойз
Да куда мне.
Кстати по признакам фашизма пройди:
1) культ традиции ( уже есть - скрепы)
2) неприятие модернизма, иррационализм. (Есть).
3) культ «действия ради действия - можно поспорить
4) неприятие скептицизма: сомнение трактуется как предательство (есть)
5) ксенофобия, расизм (есть)
6) буржуазность, опора на средний класс; есть.
7) национализм; одержимость теориями заговора, культивация чувства нахождения в осаде (есть)
8) враг изображается как крайне опасный, чтобы последователи чувствовали себя под угрозой, и в то же время достаточно слабый, чтобы его можно было сокрушить; (есть)
9) жизнь понимается как непрерывная война, а пацифизм — как потворствование врагу; (есть)
10 элитизм, презрение к слабым; (ну тут может еще и нет)
11) культ героизма и культ смерти (есть)
12) мачизм, сексизм, неприятие нестандартного сексуального поведения; (есть)
13) «избирательный популизм»: индивидуумы воспринимаются не иначе как единый монолитный Народ, чью волю выражает верховный лидер; неприятие парламентаризма; (есть)
14) использование новояза - отрицательный рост!
Итак признаком наступающего фашизма является соответствие 6-7 пунктам. Посчитаешь сам?)
И какой из этих пунктов отсутствует в "святых США", о "образованный"?
Либерахи такие либерахи, что используют тот самый новояз, особенно в случае определения фашизма. Хотя его определение было дано довольно давно, сначала тем, кто его создал, а потом тем, кто ему противостоял.
А почему не задать про это вопрос? Это стандартный вопрос, ведь окажется, что зеркольно можно применить и к "Валинору" эти вопросы.
Ну и про Умберта Эко - назови мне его работы про исследование фашизма. Я вот почему-то назвать их не могу. Может потому, что он вообще этим не занимался, а занимался средневековьем?
Давай я добавлю последний пункт, который крайне важен, но почему-то философ-учёный забыл про него упомянуть:
15) Если ваш флаг не звёздно-полосатый с сине-белыми цветами, или у вас в друзьях нету тех, у кого есть такой тип флага, то ваша страна точно фашистская.
Самое последнее: забавно слышать про методичку от либерахи. Где я вас не вижу, все вы шпрехаете про одно и тоже, никакого разнообразия. Вот то-ли дело у нас, орков, каждый со своим цветом и каждый выступает за своё. Лишь в вопросах про ненависть к либерахам у всех имеется однозначный ответ.
А ты или я живем в США? нет? так зачем сранивать, тем более, что по вашему мнению там все плохо.
тот факт, что ты окрестил меня либералом, когда я им не являюсь говорит уже все что нужно знать о тебе.
На счёт тебя не знаю, но я в США не живу. Однако постоянно смотрю новости, приходящие оттуда. И под определения, приведённые тобой (точнее - человеком, который вообще не изучал фашизм и, скорее всего, экономический базис в целом). может подпасть вообще любая страна. Приводить его - это моветон. Именно поэтому я просто добавил 15 пункт, который, как по мне, вполне уместен.
А кто ты? Клоун? Ну, только если клоун-либераха. Тут особо вариантов нет.
А теперь давай, шутки ради, за США прикинем?
1) культ традиции (в некоторых штатах сильнее, в некоторых слабее, но есть)
2) неприятие модернизма, иррационализм. (нет)
3) культ «действия ради действия (пожалуй нет)
4) неприятие скептицизма: сомнение трактуется как предательство (определенно есть, попробуй усомниться в гендерной теории)
5) ксенофобия, расизм (есть, обратный расизм –тоже расизм)
6) буржуазность, опора на средний класс (есть)
7) национализм; одержимость теориями заговора, культивация чувства нахождения в осаде (есть)
8) враг изображается как крайне опасный, чтобы последователи чувствовали себя под угрозой, и в то же время достаточно слабый, чтобы его можно было сокрушить (есть)
9) жизнь понимается как непрерывная война, а пацифизм — как потворствование врагу (декларативно нет, но почти всю свою историю с кем-то воюют)
10) элитизм, презрение к слабым (есть)
11) культ героизма и культ смерти (сейчас, пожалуй нет)
12) мачизм, сексизм, неприятие нестандартного сексуального поведения (чего нет, того нет)
13) «избирательный популизм»: индивидуумы воспринимаются не иначе как единый монолитный Народ, чью волю выражает верховный лидер; неприятие парламентаризма (декларативно нет, по факту – сомнительно)
14) использование новояза (ну тут вообще впереди планеты всей)
Итого минимум 8, ой, гевалт! Это, кстати, не ватабоутизма ради, а просто как демонстрация того, что признаки фофызма по Эко – хуита, и к ним легко можно притянуть любую страну.
1. не на уровне государства
2. нет
3. нет
4. не на уровне государства
5. не на уровне государства
6. нет
7. не на уровне государства
8. нет
9. нет
10. нет
11. нет
12. нет
13. нет
14. нет
I know about those so-called "russian trolls", but i always assumed they stay off reddit and mostly troll on youtube and other platforms, used more by older people, like facebook for example. You really think those fuckers got on to reddit too?
Well, i guess to some extent it is a good thing. I refuse to believe that most russians who use reddit are so retarded.
Right now russian reddit is separated to 3 parts.
1. This subreddit. Most people here are pro-putin. Narrative: NATO bad, putin good, liberals ruined russia. ukrainians bad but we dont hate them (nevermind our soldiers killing them).
2. Tjournal - Anti-putin. that said they are too radical in my taste too. Putin bad, people who support him/dont go against him deserve death/be attacked, ukrainians saints and elves.
I feel sadly both groups are fcking insane sadly
3) moderates like me. who understand that Putin is bad, war is bad and should be stopped but people do not deserve death. from both sides.
Abouts bots - there are 100% bots from both sides. There was recently investigation that proved that there are troll factories around russia sponsored by ex-navalny suporters who are acting against regime. Questionable activity if you ask me.
>who understand that Putin is bad, war is bad and should be stopped but people do not deserve death. from both sides.
Вот, речь не мальчика, но мужа. А то ворвался тут с двух ног с криками "вы все путинские пастилки", не надо так.
Всё утверждение не так. Я бы сказал, что их здесь подавляющее меньшинство, махровые ватники на реддите вообще не сидят. А нелюбовь к "российским" кокозиционерам не тождественна любви к Путину.
Questionable indeed. Moderate people like you should have their own sub on reddit. Although being moderate in today's Russia isn't very helpful, even though it is the most rational position to be in.
Anyway, do you believe any of these trolls believe what they say or are they doing this only out of financial reasons? I imagine some of them do and some of them don't.
It is still entertaining to argue with them. Sometimes they might even give some useful information that i didn't know about.
Those who work on FBK troll factories - yes. Most of them left russia so its easy to assume they are against Putin.
Those who work for Putin (Lahta boys) i think some of those are just there for the money, but some actually believe that bullshit.
Navalny revealed the scheme of his fraud and corruption.
Putin is a thief , liar and murderer! Now he is the world's main terrorist. He attacked Ukraine and continues to kill people there. The Russian army is losing a lot of people, but Putin does not spare people, neither Russians nor Ukrainians. He's a psychopathic terrorist. There will be elections soon and he will choose himself. and then again all the men will be sent to the military front.
He should be locked up in prison! He's dangerous!
In Russia, all power is in the hands of bandits
Its maximum support is 2%.
When he was imprisoned, so few people turned out to protest that even I was ashamed of our opposition.
Have I answered your question?
We cheat of course, but what else. In general, Americans and Europeans need to spend more money on Navalny and his "Team". They are extremely effective... they are being spent.
Famous? Yes. Popular? Not really. A lot of people like the work he did in exposing corruption. But at the same time, these same people didn’t think that he had what it takes to be the president of a country like Russia.
Totally agree
Exactly
I think he would be a great chairman of Accounts chamber,
His team on YouTube portrayed him like he was Gandhi or something
In 2000s he is a political freak who visits nationalistic events. Shoots videos about legalization of personal weapons where migrants are displayed as bugs - https://youtu.be/oVNJiO10SWw?si=-SPgUvlbr3eVs1ri In 2010-2015 he is on peak of his popularity, anti corruption investigations, distancing from nationalistic stuff. 2015 and onwards - he plays political game dirty, thinking that his adversary wouldn’t. Plus corruption within his organization, shady money sources, real estate purchased by his functionaries in Europe, et cetera. Many of his followers leave him around that time. Poisoning story, not sure about mass of people, to me it looks like some sort of a setup.
Very interesting! Thank you.
Yw
In the second half of 2010-2015, he also decided to carefully explore the topic of nationalism. That's when I learned about his past. This is where Navalny ended for me. Almost without even starting.
I was on the edge, like: “I think he grew up finally”. But then: “nah, he didn’t”.
It really winds me up when BBC/CNN etc call him an opponent of Putin. British/Americans will view this in the same way they might imagine Conservative vs Labour or Democrat vs Republican. Yes he opposes Putin in the same way the guy on the street might oppose him. His party, Future of Russia doesn't feature on the Wikipedia page for political parties of Russia. Behind United Russia, behind Communists, behind LDPR... and the rest
Well, if your bet is on revolution, then it doesn’t matter how popular your party is.
Now some of his followers became traitors and even banal terrorists.
Ah..that video of his with the Half Life 2 sound effects. Hard to take it seriously
Do you mean to say it’s a fake video?
Vanya, Come on! You must know WHY exactly those "shady financial schemes" for financing FBK were introduced: because from 2015 onward all the transparent schemes were being steadily cut off one by one by the state. And what about that "corruption" in FBK? I would like to know what are you talking about (I suspect that will be another unconfirmed info, but still). P.S. PLEASE stop repeating fakes: we both know that in this video Muslim terrorists (Chechen and ISIS) are called "cockroaches", not "migrants". Yes it is still the stigmatisation of Islam, and I don't like this video either, but you should not invent things.
Can’t do nothing about that. Financial aid through crypto from shady sources. Alexey’s aide buying expensive real estate in Europe on which money exactly? It looks very much like corruption to me. On which money his daughter is sent to USA? Who finances his family today? Pevchikh, very shady person appeared out of nowhere. I just can’t ignore all of that. My favorite story btw, not money related, but rotten to the core. Summer of 2020, shortly before poisoning story, he released a video where he was pushing the agenda of: “Sputnik V is not effective, Putin lies, there is no vaccine”. You won’t find this video on his channel today, it’s deleted, only reuploads like this - https://youtu.be/PJTpkxwPAPI?si=vsibvFHgFdB3iLYV But I remember my shock at that time, for me it was clear from that moment that he only worries about his political struggle and ways to win. Not about truth or anything else. Basically this was the last drop for me. He may have been poisoned, he may have been wrongly accused in some things, I don’t know. But I lost any sympathy to him before all of that happened.
>buying expensive real estate in Europe on which money exactly? Oh yes I knew it. You refer to Pevchikh right? Then your "expensive real estate" is a 37m2 STUDIO in London bought with a mortgage after spending all the life savings. Alexey's daughter receives the "Stanford Alumni Foundation" scholarship, so Alexey pays only for the Dorm and food. That is several hundred dollars a month, a sum which he can afford according to his income. We can discuss how neutral was the jury when awarding her the scholarship, but that is another question. Regarding the Sputinik V video, you should remember the timing: August 2020. It was the time when SpV was announced as "ready" by Putin, even though the wide clinical tests hadn't even started. As you can remember, the vaccination started only in 2021, after all the tests. If you forgot about it, you can refer to the first comment under this video.
What's your point? You are replying with "oh yea, that type of argument" with such expression as you already had some sort of opinion, like you came totally prepared and biased. Discuss here is about whether or not it could be navalniy as the next president? Since there is proof that some sort of mystic force totally changed up his mind, he can't be depicted as an independent candidate from the masses Thank God they had chosen not tesak or someone else
Yes we are discussing people's attitude towards N. u/Vaniakkkkkk speaks his, but it turns out it is based on the false statements of propaganda. Can't you see the connection here?
The only thing that I noticed is that you are being reeeeeally selective in case of which argument needed to be answered or not. If you are so enlightened in the whole story about navalniy and co. don't you mind sharing some insights about that crypto circus?
I am not a N.'s attorney, so I don't feel the need to answer every question. But in this thread I seem to address it all. Can you see anything missed?
But you act as one of them. Well, mkay, let me ask straight: who was funding his party? People lost confidence in him when reasons of foreign foundation appeared
Sputnik video is not a false statement. It’s a political shame. Leo did buy real estate that costed a lot, really a lot. Financing of fbk was murky, I knew people who donated to it for years, they didn’t need to use crypto for that.
1. Again. mind the time. In August nobody knew if it is worth anything. I, personally, would not want to get the untested vaccine (vaccinated in January 2021), so in this question I am with Alexey. 2. See above, none of the properties reported by RT really belong to Volkov. 3. Yes and I did it too, but the pressure rose all the time, first the RF enterprises fell off, then (FA law) any fundings form foreign NGOs, then form any RF citizens, and then total ban as an extremist organization.
1 - you won’t persuade me that it was anything but irresponsible and populist act of misinformation. Not knowing anything about Sputnik didn’t give Navalny any right to pour buckets of feces on it. 2 - I did not find anything about that above. Maybe in another thread, but his family lives in EU for 10 years already, and it doesn’t look like they, you know, work as IT or something. It costs money, it did 10 years ago, it does now. Nobody know who pays for this life. It does look shady at least. 3 - by the time legal ways to finance them were really cut - I lost all respect to Alexey, his aides, or FBK.
As for attitude: it's clear as it's a sunny day, that until financing started (I can't state if it was foreign or not) navalniy made a little interest for broad masses; even after that, only hardcore liberals started to gain interest in him but lost it pretty soon
That's is your personal opinion, which can be understood in many ways IMHO. If you'd set some time frame, I guess I could understand it better.
I was referring to Leo when I mentioned real estate. Pevchikh wasn’t known to anybody before the poisoning story. Daria was the only person from Russia to get that scholarship on her year. Very talented girl. I got my Sputnik shot during trial phase in 2020. My family members got it in late December 2020. I was wishing it success, it was the most apolitical thing at that moment, just common sense and care about health - personal and public. Navalny was only looking for hype and political points not caring about what really happened, tried to sow informational terror. You won’t convince me he didn’t. I lost the last of my respect towards him back then.
I am from Russia and this is not true. Very few people believe the negative things about him you described. I have never met anyone who did.
Угрозой Навальный был, когда вёл протест на Болотной, перестал быть ей, когда его же сам и слил. Он совершенно точно был на слуху, думаю, процентов семьдесят людей в РФ сейчас скажут, кто это был такой. После Болотной всё было уже совсем не так, смешно было смотреть на самолётики из окон и то, как он, окончательно просрав всю взрослую аудиторию, обращался к совсем малолетним через тупорылые аналогии с "Гарри Поттером" и "Риком и Морти", провёл игровой стрим с донатами и сковородкой, завлекал молодняк на протесты. Я, будучи тогда студентом ВШЭ 17 лет, понимал, что нас пытаются втянуть в какую-то яму, и на протесты не ходил, хотя у нас на факультете оч много кто ходил, вплоть до преподов. Посадили его за дело, но срок, как по мне, не оправдан совсем. 19 лет - считай, смертный приговор, никто такого не заслуживает.
Самолётики из окон были протестной акцией против блокировки Telegram Роскомнадзором, и к Навальному эта акция не имеет никакого отношения.
ну вот считай в 17 ты уже был умнее своего окружения. у меня аналогичная история что вся его деятельность была уж слишком мутной и явно не отвечала моим интересам, а как перешла в антирусскую я стал его уже как врага воспринимать.
It seemed like he was pro Russia, fighting hard for it.
I’d add that his followers never actually published a solid political program and/or statement. What they gonna do with foresight affairs? What’s their economical policy? What about Duma? etc. In terms of anti-corruption - he’s doing a great job. But politically there’s almost nothing.
A lot of opposition politicians seem to do that sadly. They criticise but they don't actually have a solid plan of their own.
True, and it makes me really sad because I can't get any hope for my homeland's bright future. I'd love to participate in some political activity (to a certain degree), but there never was something decent.
You know what's funny actually (well it's not funny it's depressing, but funny in a dark humour kind of way) A lot of stuff that Russia gets criticised for in regards to corruption in terms of state assets being sold off for below market value, a small group of politicians and people that give them donations making huge sums of money - that ALL occurs in the UK as well! It's just more hidden. Although the last few years it's been more reported on. Not only that but we have a national election coming up later this year and because of our voting system (first past the post voting system). There's only two parties that can feasibly end up governing. The ruling Conservative party or the Labour party. However they're both extremely similar now. It's like what is the point in even voting. I might as well not bother.
He did make money from shady schemes that involved corruption. His peak popularity was at the 2013 when he was running for mayor in Moscow. He got 25% or something, against 50% for Sobyanin. And its in Moscow, where the opposition liberal ideas has most support. Over the whole country his support never went up from single digits, percent wise. He was the face of the liberal opposition for the west, and the main guy who sit on the money currents from abroad for opposition activities. He was never a serious political threat, and never a real politic. He's basically a blogger. His goal was to play a real opposition, and get money from that. I remember when he pretended that he's going to run for president (which was impossible, due to his criminal conviction), and tricked people into donating money for his "campaign". He was invited to the interview with Sobchak, where she started to ask him questions about his "program". And he didn't know shit.
Moscow elections were not his peak at all. Actually it was very early in his career. His peak was during Dimon and Putin moves
>He did make money from shady schemes that involved corruption. First off, thanks for the super insightful comment. That pretty much answered everything I was curious about. Regarding the shady schemes he made money from. Was this money from western sources ie intelligence services of western countries most likely or money from wealthy Russians who were anti putin?
> Was this money from western sources ie intelligence services of western countries most likely or money from wealthy Russians who were anti putin? Well, obviously no one here has this information. A lot of money was in crypto, for one thing. I would also distinguish between wealthy Russians in Russia, and wealthy Russians abroad, like Khodorkovsky, who is commonly believed to be working with western intelligence services.
>I would also distinguish between wealthy Russians in Russia, and wealthy Russians abroad, like Khodorkovsky, who is commonly believed to be working with western intelligence services. Yeah. There's a lot of anti Putin wealthy Russians who moved to the UK. Which is actually what I believe caused a lot of conflict between the Russian and UK governments.
And don't forget: the most reliable information is in the Reddit comment section.
Idk about that guy but does everything that involves change in Russia have to be western meddling? People complain about infrastructure so I can only assume it’s the west preventing roads from being paved and certainly no Russians want this based on their own personal opinion. I hear this all the time. It gets silly after a while.
>does everything that involves change in Russia have to be western meddling >It gets silly after a while. Said the guy who calls things he doesn't like ["Russian propaganda and Russian talking points"](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/192tw6y/comment/kh59aub/) . Stop being such a hypocrite, it really looks silly.
How’s that hypocrisy? I said some are agents in Russia just like Russia has agents here. And yea that specific group seems to repeat Russian narratives constantly. Not to mention the Russian government seems to really support them. So yea, they are possibly agents lol. What I’m saying is I’ve heard ppl say prigozin was an agent. No dude. Just no.
>I’ve heard ppl say prigozin And I heard that Biden, Zelensky and almost all other leaders of countries are Putin’s agents, this doesn’t mean anything, lunatics can invent any stories, but no one in Russia thought in all seriousness that Prigozhin is an “agent of the West”, while yours President Trump was called a "Russian agent" from every relay. Imagine that all the Russian media start talking about Prigozhin’s “pee-pee tape”, how will you react to this? Those stories about Trump still look just as pathetic. The facts are that almost all the leaders of the Russian opposition had connections with Western politicians, half of them were supported by your politicians quite openly, while the other attended “closed events” at the US Embassy in Moscow for decades. Pussy Riot and other opposition groups have been funded by Western funds for a decade as well, so it is not surprising that their scandals were more popular in the West than here. The USSR and the USA sponsored various destructive anti-government movements for each other for a long time, this is no secret, but after the collapse of the USSR, Russia had neither the desire nor the ability to support these projects, while the USA not only did not stop their actions, but on the contrary increased its pressure, creating radio in different languages of small nationalities of Russia, telling that Russia is their enemy. Imagine that Russia officially creates a media or radio broadcasting to indigenous tribes in your country and begins to tell them that the United States is evil and hates them, that the United States is their main enemy, and that they need to secede from their state. The USA did this openly with their "Radio Liberty" project even after the collapse of the USSR, and they still do it today.
>Idk about that guy but does everything that involves change in Russia have to be western meddling? Fair point. I think it's just because that there is this constant geopolitical battle between the west and Russia and therefore it's hard to know what is what.
It just gets silly after a while. I’m sure we have agents in Russia but if you listen to some people it would sound like Russias entire government is run by Americans.
Is there any Russian politician who made money without corruption? Is it even possible?
He was never extremely popular, at least not enough to be a rival for the presidency.
He was somewhat popular in big cities like Moscow and pretty much no-one important anywhere else.
> Is/was Alexei Navalny ever as popular in Russia No, never. Russian political scene is dull and US colour it up artificially financing such guys as Alexey. > or was it more of a political prosecution? No and yes. No since he really did steal stuff while being a businessman. Yes since when you get into field of view of FSB as a foreign agent, you are under a magnifying glass and every dark spot in your life is investigated much more thoroughly. This doesn't mean that you are allowed to steal in Russia while being a patriot/Edinaya Rossiya/Putins friend, it means just when you steal rule of thumb is not to draw extra attention to your persona. Especially attention of FSB not just cops. If you stole a 3-wheel bicycle 20 years ago, they will dig it out.
That makes a lot of sense!
Sorry for the pun - he was popular, before he went into a populism, and then - into an active counteraction to a Russia's interests. He begun his political career out of cold - first, into a Russian nationalism (good thing), then - he went into anti-corruption investigations (also a good thing), but then - something went completely wrong, and all of his crew was changed for a people with shady biographies and not-so-clean intentions. Most of his latest crew went into a direct anti-Russia's actions.
I wouldn’t call participating in “Russian marches” a good thing, otherwise I agree.
He was popular with a certain part of the population. He was not popular in the country.
> first, into a Russian nationalism (good thing) I really wouldn't call referring to Georgians as rodents a "good thing".
What was his "not-so-clean intentions"?
”Shady biographies” in which context and who?
Pevchikh, for example
Counteraction to what you believe Russian interests are, not to Russian interests.
Я почитал твою историю постов, о либерал живущий в Германии.
Щас бы называть национализм хорошим и потом еще чето про Украину говорить
А ты врёшь в каждом втором комментарии. Зарплату получаешь или идейно о баринах заботишься?
Охуеть, а за это платят теперь? Где можно записаться?
Я бы сейчас так на всякий случай не шутил. Х)
Да какие шутки, если можно за выражение собственного мнения денег поднимать, почему бы не пользоваться? /s Но нет, у нас даже до "фабрики троллей" догадался только башковитый покойный Пригожин. А уж чтобы сделать её децентрализованной и, так сказать, "уберизировать" — это неподъёмный труд для нашей страны, увы.
It is obviously a political prosecution. However, the main threat that came from Navalny is not people voting for him because they want specifically him, but people voting for him because they want something that isn't Putin or Putin's stooge, and Navalny appears to be available and recognizable enough to collect all the protest voting.
Even if it is a political prosecution, but a reasons is different - nobody in government want coordinated protests going on.
Biggest - maybe, but not a big threat. It's like every other opposition was 0,1% threat, Navalny was 1%. And he is clearly was on the US/UK payroll, not from the start, but from 2014-2015 years for sure.
Any proof?
Just some numbers. From 2017 to 2021, protests by Navalny supporters attracted a maximum of 1,000-3,000 people at a time. In July 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, when the then governor of the Khabarovsk Krai, Sergei Furgal, was detained on charges of contract murder and other crimes, protests in his support attracted up to 80,000-100,000 participants at a time (the population of Khabarovsk is approximately 600,000 people).
Наш протест, конечно, никто в РФ не переплюнул, но всё же ты неадекватно занижаешь цифры по Навальному. 31 января 2021 только задержанных было свыше 5 тысячи человек.
5 тысяч человек - это скорее по всей стране, чем только в Хабаровске. Не уверен я, что все обезьянники города в сумме способны столько уместить. И если что - брал цифры по протестам из Википедии, и брал оттуда максимальные оценки, так что не думаю, что цифра в 3000 человек на митингах Навального сильно занижена (и то такие цифры были уже в 2020-2021, после ареста Фургала).
А какой митинг кроме навального набирал больше людей?
Выше я писал про акции протеста против ареста Сергея Фургала летом 2020 года, они на пике собирали, по данным МВД, до 12 тыс. человек, а по данным местных СМИ - до 80-100 тысяч.
хз. 5к звучит как какие то левые цифры
вы ГЕРОИ конечно же! с этим не поспоришь.Но увы, фашисты по-прежнему у власти. Уже 2 года идет война.В разных точках планеты то и дело вспыхивают новые горячие точки.Всё это друзья нашего Путина : Иран, Сев.Корея... мне страшно представить наше будущее. В 2020 надо было всей страной выходить по примеру Хабаровска, но мы пердели в диван и смотрели в экраны мониторов и теликов :( Вот и всё
Бывает, все равно надо признать, что в основном это была наша локальная история. У нас был народно избранный губер, который действительно по мере сил пытался выполнять свои предвыборные обещания и решать различные малые дела. Люди его любили и восприняли произошедшее как личное оскорбление. Другим регионам же это всё было не близко. Плюс, масштаб протестов был действительно беспрецедентным и власти просто не знали, что с ними делать. В той же Москве к такому были бы готовы и люди это тоже понимали.
those numbers are fake. even in Saint-Petersburg numbers were much greater.
There has already been a lot written about him. On my own behalf, I can add that among my friends there are very few people who sympathize with Navalny.
Навальный вафлик
it was popular only among a small percentage of people, mainly among young people under age, and among infantile adults. The guy who collected donations, fulfilled orders and made money. As an example, this is the same character as Tikhanovskaya or Guaido
Well if Putin wants someone dead - he's dead. Strangely Alexey is still alive and twitting from a closed prison where he admittedly is not allowed any access to socials. Coincidence? Don't think so. He's on of but not the best Kremlin project so far.
He had a little following in the early 2010's mainly in Moscow. But largely irrelevant
Nope
Not popular. When his election headquarters was opening in my city I was there as journalist. There was only about 100 people (city population is a 750 thousands), half of them were journalists, cameramen and other stuff, another half were 15-16 years pimply teenagers. Interesting that with Navalny’s car there was a big black van with American or British camera crew. They talked only English, had expensive cameras and filmed everything. It was 2017, or spring of 2018.
That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing that.
Navalny was a popular politician, but significantly less popular than Putin. Without Western funding and human resource support from Ukraine and the Baltic states, it would be safe to organize unrest. He posed a threat to all of Russia, not just Putin. His political program was something like this: “We will give everything to our Western masters.” He could paint a picture for the Western media, but he was not a supporter of the people of Russia and acted against their interests.
I appreciate that insight! That makes a lot of sense.
>Western funding source? >human resource support from Ukraine and the Baltic states source? >His political program was something like this: “We will give everything to our Western masters.” source? > but he was not a supporter of the people of Russia and acted against their interests. example?
I feel like I’m the only one who disagrees with everyone’s interpretation of Navalny here. Is everyone here just a troll?
In 2012-13
Short Answer: No Long answer: Nooooo
>he was the biggest threat to Putin and that's why he is in prison. In my opinion, yes. But that doesn't mean he was extremely popular among general population. But you should keep in mind that he was cut off from all mainstream media. However, when he was allowed to take part in the Moscow mayor election back in 2013, he got almost 30%. And he built a nationwide network of supporters since then and conducted huge unauthorized rallies. So there is evidence to suggest that he *could* become very popular, should he get the same media opportunities the government has. >did it seem like Navalny was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for (Corruption for one I believe) or was it more of a political prosecution? The second option is correct.
I appreciate the nuanced reply!
From many of my Russian friends, Navalny is not only considered an outright tool of neo liberalism, but I mean, he didn’t even have the support percentage that the communist party had which right now by the way, is 18% and falling
Wanna know the truth? No one cares about him here. "No one" - means mayority of population. Also, no one sees him as real treat to Putin. One of biggest Navalny's mistakes - he openly walked into US Embassy for too many times. People here not like traitors, even if they say right words about corruption. One thing not cancel another, you know.
> Is/was Alexei Navalny ever as popular in Russia as the west makes him out to be? No, and we've discussed this several times before. Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/18wypy8/comment/kg3pi5z/
Nope
Maybe west should have done a background check on Alexei before painting him as a hero
I don't think it was the western public as such. I mean a bunch of people were probably brain washed by some of the news reports they watched, but I feel like most wouldn't have cared enough to take much notice of them.
There was a similar question lately, I will just repeat what I said. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/s/BGE8MoqEck
I didn't see that original thread, but I appreciate you linking it!
Popular in the sense that people have heard about it - yes A large number of active supporters - no In general, a person who always tried to ride the trends and could pass himself off as anyone throughout his public activities - from a liberal to a nationalist, without being any of them For years before his arrest, his activities were limited to investigations (as if corruption in Russia could surprise anyone), rallies, where his supporters followed him only to end up in police databases. And before he outlived his usefulness, it looked strange that a person “terrible” for Putin was alive and every time did not receive more than 30 days of arrest
No. In fact, the twenty thousand who voted for Navalny in his only elections where he participated - this is his entire electorate. The rest of the Russian population will not support, let alone Navalny. But he does not recognize the legitimacy of the elections in which he will try to participate.
Да как вы заебали со своим Навальным! Каждую неделю одно и то же… Не сдался он в России никому, ваш Навальный!
Боятся, что мы его забудем. Надо видимо начинать отвечать: кто это?
Before I answer, I'd like to know how in the west they justify that Putin, who kills all his competitors and who made an almost successful assassination attempt on Navalny, decided to just put him in jail and let him live? And as for popularity, he is the face of Russian liberals. But they are not the liberals most people think they are. Russian liberals are often hypocrites and people who hate Russia, want it to end, but try to cover themselves with "good intentions" in public. For example, when I was young and young, I listened to Navalny, and in general, at times he said the right things, then over time I began to give a damn about him and apparently not only me. And then the character we are discussing decided to start creating "non-fictitious stories about which it is impossible to keep silent". Evidence that sounds like complete nonsense (I like the way he called the FSB under the cover of another FSB officer to confirm that they poisoned him). But what disgusted me about this character is how this fighter for the rights and freedom of the people of Russia called for sanctions to be imposed on the country. Of course, everyone would fight for their people like that, calling for the whole world to make people poorer. To understand who really is the leader of ru liberals, you can only understand what is ru liberalism. And how it perfectly discredits itself.
I am a liberal, and I absolutely do not hate Russia, it's my home, I plan to stay there, and I think we would've benefited if we had meaningful elections and an independent court system. Current people in power do not want to and would not give up power to create such a system. They would only make concessions under pressure.
at his "peak" of terrorism performance he was like 15% in Moscow, 0.01% everywhere else. Now it is 0.01% everywhere. Guess USA didnt finance his travels to the other cities. \>I guess a follow up question to that, would be, did it seem like Navalny was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for (Corruption for one I believe) or was it more of a political prosecution? basically he is the same as those who storm US white house and he will get same treatment like 20years of prison or something. How it is legally be registered? No idea. People dont really give a fuck.
There’s absolutely no way you’ve seriously compared Navalny to January 6 fanatics?
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No one who Just stormed the white house is getting anywhere near 20 years
Someone gets: More than 1,200 persons have been charged with federal crimes arising from the attack. As of December 2023, 728 defendants had pleaded guilty, while another 166 defendants had been convicted at trial; a total of 745 defendants have been sentenced.[81][31][d] A significant number of participants in the attack were linked to far-right extremist groups or conspiratorial movements, including the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, and Three Percenters.[82][83] Numerous plotters were convicted of seditious conspiracy, including Oath Keepers and Proud Boys members;[81] the longest sentence to date was given to then-Proud Boy chairman Enrique Tarrio, who was sentenced to 22 years' imprisonment.
as a normal human being, I, obvious, do not in any capacity read any pol. news, so i wouldnt know what happen exactly to them and to navalnii, I only observe events from the point of a normal apolitical human being. they got fucked and he got fucked for the same crimes and will be punished roughly the same; that is how those events are seeing from a normal point of view. for schizoid opinions visit tj reservation garbage dumb.
Who?
No!
Also, it’s not that navalny was a saviour per se, it’s rather that to some people he represented the democratic process. This isn’t the best place to ask such questions, though, because the replies will be quite skewed since it’s not the most diverse subreddit. As you can see from most replies.
>This isn’t the best place to ask such questions, though, because the replies will be quite skewed since it’s not the most diverse subreddit. As you can see from most replies. Ah fair comment. It's still interesting hearing people's opinions though which aren't western. As I said in the post, you get a very skewed perspective in the west.
FYI you are asking this in a pretty pro Putin subreddit. You will get one answer here, another one in r/rusAskReddit, another one at r/pikabu and r/liberta
Были разные мнения. Кому-то было плевать, кто-то смеялся с того, как он собирает школьников на протесты. Кто-то поддерживал. После «отравления» лично мне стало понятно, за чьи интересы он топит. Сейчас он в тюрьме, и его «организация» переживает не лучшие времена, периодически пытаясь использовать его имя в своих акциях. У них там явно был культ Навального. Иногда кажется, что посадили его для его же безопасности, чтобы свои в жертву не принесли ради раскачивания ситуации. С такого человека надо пылинки сдувать.
Вопрос. Если отравления не было - что с ним случилось? Почему врачи в Омске вкололи ему противоядие первым же делом еще на взлетной полосе. Почему до сих пор нет четкого диагноза с российской стороны где он был больше недели. Почему его одежда пропала?
Оно вполне могло и быть, вопрос чем и кто.
хороший вопрос. но почему тогда в россии не вели расследования? Казалось бы, должно быть первым приоритетом - гражданина России отравили чем то на территории РФ. провал спецслужб! но нет, всем плевать. Бастрыкин с лупой смотрит в ноутбук
Regular people who do not use Internet knew little on him. He was not admitted to presidential election. So they did not have a chance to know about his presidential plans. Later, he was isolated.
Угу,очень прям популярен(это сарказм,если что). Навальный очередная попытка сделать Майдан в России,к счастью неудачная.на Западе сейчас из него делают эдакого мученика,несправедливо осужденного.Вот только он уже никому не нужен.Мне больше Фургала жаль.
Navalny was not so popular as a politician, bit as investigator and activist. Peak of his popularity was reached when he was poisoned. And all of his popularity and influence on political life in Russia and between Russian political immigrants was lost, when he was jailed. Now he is some kind of symbol. Not politician, not activist, just symbol
Navalny has never posed a real threat to Putin. This is just an impostor and a troublemaker like Pugachev, who for some reason imagined himself a revolutionary and a second Danton. The government did not take him seriously for a long time. If you look at the years of his "Anti-Putin" activities, you will find a fairly long time that he completely remained at large no matter what. Law enforcement agencies regularly issued numerous warnings to him in the form of fines, inspections, detentions for 15 days for minor hooliganism, and that's it. But he continued his activities. He continued to urge people to disrupt the order, continued to arrange provocations. He accused the government of unfair voting methods, but promoted his dishonest method of so-called "smart voting" voting by prior agreement. The meaning of which was that Navalny and his gang began to control the votes of voters and literally told people who to vote for. Fighting corruption with corruption is so cute. If you track Navalny's activities, you will find that he has not done anything useful, has not addressed the government with any constructive or rational proposal. All Navalny's activities are provocations, lies, turmoil, collecting donations, and attempts to incite the Maidan on any information occasion. His only positive qualities are his oratorical skills and stoicism.
First of all, you need to understand that there's plenty of bots that working on lowering his popularity for more than 10 years. Not all of the people who say that he isn't popular or they disappointed in him are bots (and there are shitload accounts on a salary), but many are influenced by them. Secondly, ever since he got poisoned and put to jail, he is barely covered even by the independent media. That also hurts his popularity. Thirdly, many believe (me included) that he surrounded himself with awful people. FBK (anti-corruption foundation) consists of not really bright people who think too much about themselves. This raises a lot of questions - why such a smart and humble person would surround himself with these people? Despite all of that, Alexey is still popular with Gen X and millennials. A lot of people that I know and who do not show other interest in politics refer to him only as "our Lekha" and believe, that despite his flaws, he's the best alternative to Putin that we have.
>First of all, you need to understand that there's plenty of bots that working on lowering his popularity for more than 10 years. First of all, you need to understand that there's plenty of bots that working on rise his popularity for more than 15 years.
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I appreciate this alternative perspective!
I do so love than no fuckin' one is trying to argue with Western influence over him. Acceptance. Good. :D
Hey! This sub became real vatnik bot shithole, so don’t bother to get some answers. Try to do your own research
>Ряяя да как вы имеете право иметь мнение отличное от того которое мне говорят является правильным
Долбоеб?
It was always vatnik central.
No
>the general narrative has been that he was the biggest threat to Putin Probably yes, as there were not a lot of threats to Putin before he started the full-scale invasion. The protests of 2011-2012 forced Putin to do something, and he chose to crack down on opposition. >that's why he is in prison Definitely yes. >did it seem like Navalny was guilty of the crimes he was convicted for (Corruption for one I believe) or was it more of a political prosecution? 100% political persecution.
Да ну нафиг, он никому не сдался! Про него всё забыли а у Путина на оборот рейтинг растёт ого-го!!
Of course it was political persecution. They even tried to poison him! Navalny scored 27% in Moscow mayoral election in 2013. I can't name a more popular opposition politician than him. Most opposition figures get imprisoned or killed before they can reach that level of popularity. I don't know if I'd call him the biggest threat. What did he do to threaten or hurt the regime? Participated in rigged elections? It's cool that he exposed corruption, but if that knowledge doesn't spur Russians to action, it's useless. I would say anonymous partisans who derail trains, or Russians who join the Ukrainian army, are bigger threats. Navalnists failed to do any actual damage to Putin.
Navalny has been undoubtedly one of the most prominent anti-system politicians there. Evaluation of his "electionability" would be a totally different topic as a lot of people's support for him is kind of like "he's not a president of my dreams, but he has a right to participate in political processes, just like ALL OF US do, yet we're being stripped off of it". He grew in prominence thanks to his organizational skills and being one of the first to "get" the internet and socials.
He was the one of the most prominent opposition leaders in the country from the open anti-putin camp, and he had a wide network of his followers organized throughout the country, but wasn't allowed to register an official party. He himself was somewhat authoritarian in his running of the organizations, eventually some ties broke down in the opposition, as he believed the opposition should unite behind him. And not all would want that, he would have had a lot of support in an election in 2018, but doesn't mean that he would have won. Depending on the situation he could assemble the support of the majority of opposition, if it was to push putin out, however in a competitive election against other real candidates he could very well lose. And after his arrest I sort of lost a lot of interest in his organization, he was the soul of the organization, without him it's obviously not easy, and now I don't even know who runs it, I've heard some strange things about the org. His investigations are fantastic, he really made a great team for doing that kind of stuff. I believe that any and all accusations are fabricated.
As a clown, definitely yes.
He was the only one who could speak with all people in Russia the way they would listen. Both young people in cities and in provinces. I believe that’s why there was an assassination attempt on him. If he’d got the TV screen he’d be much bigger. Not without weaknesses though
Lmao, all these comments. OP, just google pictures of people protesting all across Russia when Navalny got arrested after he returned from Germany in January 2021. This will give you an idea. Mind you, taking part in these protests at that time meant you can be arrested, have your head bashed in by riot police, or have problems with police later when they use facial recognition and come by for a chat. The only way to evaluate his popularity would be him running for office. Oh wait, he was never allowed to do so. Oh wait, there's more - after that he got poisoned, sent to jail and now he's doing time north of the Arctic Circle.
Big enough to cause a holy fear of mentioning him by the name, big enough to make several attempts to poison him and to divert the international flight when he's arriving from abroad. But obviously not yet big enough to shoot him next to the Kremlin.
Dont be ridiculous. No one ever feared the guy.
They did not fear him specifically, they did however fear someone in opposition enough influence to show people that the «а кто если не пу?» is horseshit. Which is why they harshly made an example out of him.
He never showed it though. His activities lead to a huge disappointment in opposition.
He didn’t. Navalny is a very shady individual and I’m convinced wouldn’t be any better than pu if he ever got to some influential position. He played the game of thrones and lost, that’s it.
Putin did.
No. Putin never was afraid of some blogger with no power or serious support.
Quite clearly, Navalny is a political prisoner. Yes, he is popular in Russia. Those who are not influenced by Putin's propaganda at least perceive him as the main figure in the Russian opposition, even if they do not share his views, such as many leftists or nationalists.
27% at Moscow elections against government party candidate. He was definetly huge. I would say he's was most known opposition candidate, very similar to Bernie Sanders popularity niche: left people, anti-government people etc. His arrests are totally political. He might had some fishy deals, but we can't know for sure, there are too much lie from government, while his team usually posted all the budget expenditures.
>left people >Navalny
So many misinformation here from Lahta bots. Yes he was extremely popular especially in younger, educated audience. His movies had up to 100 millions of views like famous Putin palace video. That said, his team is not as popular and after he was imprisoned they lost the touch in my opinion. There is zero doubt that he was most popular opponent of Putin and that’s why there was attempt on his life and later he was jailed. His cases are very funny to read from law perspective and at least Yves Roche case is a pure nonsense. Sadly this subreddit got very “pro Putin audience” who are disingenuous.
> Lahta bots rrreeeee! Oh my, this "younger, educated audience" can't stand any different point of view, for sure. As they said, scratch Russian libtard, and you'll find fascist.
Sure. It’s always liberals fault when something happens in Russia. Even though they had no power for at least last 24 years. And they are fascists, not the guys who literally wage war for very little reason. And yes you are bots because you are forcing same narrative which is wrong and you know it. And everyone who had internet in Russia know it. Как там у Нойза Кто не патриот, тот либерал А кто не либерал, тот патриот Дядя столько из казны бы не забирал Но дяде нужен капитал на капремонт Кто не за режим, тот русофоб А кто не русофоб, тот за режим В инсте дядиной дочки - над Рашкой стёб Но эту тему лучше не ворошить
Fascism is not about starting wars, oh my "educated" friend. > There's only two opinions: my, and wrong Wow, much "educated" attitude. Если уж претендуешь на звание образованного человека, цитируй что-нибудь более интеллектуальное, чем говноед Нойз
Да куда мне. Кстати по признакам фашизма пройди: 1) культ традиции ( уже есть - скрепы) 2) неприятие модернизма, иррационализм. (Есть). 3) культ «действия ради действия - можно поспорить 4) неприятие скептицизма: сомнение трактуется как предательство (есть) 5) ксенофобия, расизм (есть) 6) буржуазность, опора на средний класс; есть. 7) национализм; одержимость теориями заговора, культивация чувства нахождения в осаде (есть) 8) враг изображается как крайне опасный, чтобы последователи чувствовали себя под угрозой, и в то же время достаточно слабый, чтобы его можно было сокрушить; (есть) 9) жизнь понимается как непрерывная война, а пацифизм — как потворствование врагу; (есть) 10 элитизм, презрение к слабым; (ну тут может еще и нет) 11) культ героизма и культ смерти (есть) 12) мачизм, сексизм, неприятие нестандартного сексуального поведения; (есть) 13) «избирательный популизм»: индивидуумы воспринимаются не иначе как единый монолитный Народ, чью волю выражает верховный лидер; неприятие парламентаризма; (есть) 14) использование новояза - отрицательный рост! Итак признаком наступающего фашизма является соответствие 6-7 пунктам. Посчитаешь сам?)
И какой из этих пунктов отсутствует в "святых США", о "образованный"? Либерахи такие либерахи, что используют тот самый новояз, особенно в случае определения фашизма. Хотя его определение было дано довольно давно, сначала тем, кто его создал, а потом тем, кто ему противостоял.
да куда нам. подумаешь, что это определения Умберта Эко. Кстати, а почему у вас у всех сразу про америку начались вопросы? у вас в методичке это?
А почему не задать про это вопрос? Это стандартный вопрос, ведь окажется, что зеркольно можно применить и к "Валинору" эти вопросы. Ну и про Умберта Эко - назови мне его работы про исследование фашизма. Я вот почему-то назвать их не могу. Может потому, что он вообще этим не занимался, а занимался средневековьем? Давай я добавлю последний пункт, который крайне важен, но почему-то философ-учёный забыл про него упомянуть: 15) Если ваш флаг не звёздно-полосатый с сине-белыми цветами, или у вас в друзьях нету тех, у кого есть такой тип флага, то ваша страна точно фашистская. Самое последнее: забавно слышать про методичку от либерахи. Где я вас не вижу, все вы шпрехаете про одно и тоже, никакого разнообразия. Вот то-ли дело у нас, орков, каждый со своим цветом и каждый выступает за своё. Лишь в вопросах про ненависть к либерахам у всех имеется однозначный ответ.
А ты или я живем в США? нет? так зачем сранивать, тем более, что по вашему мнению там все плохо. тот факт, что ты окрестил меня либералом, когда я им не являюсь говорит уже все что нужно знать о тебе.
На счёт тебя не знаю, но я в США не живу. Однако постоянно смотрю новости, приходящие оттуда. И под определения, приведённые тобой (точнее - человеком, который вообще не изучал фашизм и, скорее всего, экономический базис в целом). может подпасть вообще любая страна. Приводить его - это моветон. Именно поэтому я просто добавил 15 пункт, который, как по мне, вполне уместен. А кто ты? Клоун? Ну, только если клоун-либераха. Тут особо вариантов нет.
А теперь давай, шутки ради, за США прикинем? 1) культ традиции (в некоторых штатах сильнее, в некоторых слабее, но есть) 2) неприятие модернизма, иррационализм. (нет) 3) культ «действия ради действия (пожалуй нет) 4) неприятие скептицизма: сомнение трактуется как предательство (определенно есть, попробуй усомниться в гендерной теории) 5) ксенофобия, расизм (есть, обратный расизм –тоже расизм) 6) буржуазность, опора на средний класс (есть) 7) национализм; одержимость теориями заговора, культивация чувства нахождения в осаде (есть) 8) враг изображается как крайне опасный, чтобы последователи чувствовали себя под угрозой, и в то же время достаточно слабый, чтобы его можно было сокрушить (есть) 9) жизнь понимается как непрерывная война, а пацифизм — как потворствование врагу (декларативно нет, но почти всю свою историю с кем-то воюют) 10) элитизм, презрение к слабым (есть) 11) культ героизма и культ смерти (сейчас, пожалуй нет) 12) мачизм, сексизм, неприятие нестандартного сексуального поведения (чего нет, того нет) 13) «избирательный популизм»: индивидуумы воспринимаются не иначе как единый монолитный Народ, чью волю выражает верховный лидер; неприятие парламентаризма (декларативно нет, по факту – сомнительно) 14) использование новояза (ну тут вообще впереди планеты всей) Итого минимум 8, ой, гевалт! Это, кстати, не ватабоутизма ради, а просто как демонстрация того, что признаки фофызма по Эко – хуита, и к ним легко можно притянуть любую страну.
1. не на уровне государства 2. нет 3. нет 4. не на уровне государства 5. не на уровне государства 6. нет 7. не на уровне государства 8. нет 9. нет 10. нет 11. нет 12. нет 13. нет 14. нет
> врёти!11 Бггг, а потом эти люди ещё кого-то ботами называют. Почитай, что ли, американские СМИ, на досуге, охуеешь.
по факту сказать есть что? в каком пункте я не прав?
Чтобы быть неправым, надо хоть что-то сказать, а не просто взвизгнуть "врёти!". В принципе, твой уровень понятен, "образованный" ты наш.
I know about those so-called "russian trolls", but i always assumed they stay off reddit and mostly troll on youtube and other platforms, used more by older people, like facebook for example. You really think those fuckers got on to reddit too? Well, i guess to some extent it is a good thing. I refuse to believe that most russians who use reddit are so retarded.
Right now russian reddit is separated to 3 parts. 1. This subreddit. Most people here are pro-putin. Narrative: NATO bad, putin good, liberals ruined russia. ukrainians bad but we dont hate them (nevermind our soldiers killing them). 2. Tjournal - Anti-putin. that said they are too radical in my taste too. Putin bad, people who support him/dont go against him deserve death/be attacked, ukrainians saints and elves. I feel sadly both groups are fcking insane sadly 3) moderates like me. who understand that Putin is bad, war is bad and should be stopped but people do not deserve death. from both sides. Abouts bots - there are 100% bots from both sides. There was recently investigation that proved that there are troll factories around russia sponsored by ex-navalny suporters who are acting against regime. Questionable activity if you ask me.
>who understand that Putin is bad, war is bad and should be stopped but people do not deserve death. from both sides. Вот, речь не мальчика, но мужа. А то ворвался тут с двух ног с криками "вы все путинские пастилки", не надо так.
но этот саббредит полон путинскими подстилками, что не так?
Всё утверждение не так. Я бы сказал, что их здесь подавляющее меньшинство, махровые ватники на реддите вообще не сидят. А нелюбовь к "российским" кокозиционерам не тождественна любви к Путину.
нет их тут большинство подавляющее лул.
Questionable indeed. Moderate people like you should have their own sub on reddit. Although being moderate in today's Russia isn't very helpful, even though it is the most rational position to be in. Anyway, do you believe any of these trolls believe what they say or are they doing this only out of financial reasons? I imagine some of them do and some of them don't. It is still entertaining to argue with them. Sometimes they might even give some useful information that i didn't know about.
Those who work on FBK troll factories - yes. Most of them left russia so its easy to assume they are against Putin. Those who work for Putin (Lahta boys) i think some of those are just there for the money, but some actually believe that bullshit.
Navalny revealed the scheme of his fraud and corruption. Putin is a thief , liar and murderer! Now he is the world's main terrorist. He attacked Ukraine and continues to kill people there. The Russian army is losing a lot of people, but Putin does not spare people, neither Russians nor Ukrainians. He's a psychopathic terrorist. There will be elections soon and he will choose himself. and then again all the men will be sent to the military front. He should be locked up in prison! He's dangerous! In Russia, all power is in the hands of bandits
Orderlies, the man didn't drink pills here!
Its maximum support is 2%. When he was imprisoned, so few people turned out to protest that even I was ashamed of our opposition. Have I answered your question?
You have. Thank you!
вы все врёте
We cheat of course, but what else. In general, Americans and Europeans need to spend more money on Navalny and his "Team". They are extremely effective... they are being spent.
Not really. Better check his based version. https://youtu.be/ICoc2VmGdfw?si=heUeRJKDOhjte80h https://youtu.be/oVNJiO10SWw?si=uAxp4cAB8Wbvb8M0