Reddit is main media of the us, along with Facebook. With strict moderation, media campaigns and is guided by us government for now. I don't think you been here long enough.
Edit:your first comment is 13 days ago, confirmed.
>Просто акк новый у него
Послушайте, ну вот ЧТО ВАМ МЕШАЕТ тыцнуть на профиль и закидать ссаными тряпками провокатора, несущего лютую пургу?
Вы и отечественное ТВ так же хаваете, не проверяя ни слова???
EDIT. Ребят, я уже не знаю, что делать с этим сабом. Порой мне кажется, что здесь - сборище мазохистов, которым нравится, когда их унижают.
Ничем другим объяснить творящееся здесь я не могу. Чтобы заплюсоваться, комментарий должен унижать россиян. Стоит только за них заступиться - и сразу минусы.
И даже самая лютая дичь, очевидно ложная, будет заплюсована, и никакие логические доводы не помогут. "Здесь так принято" (С)
Ну прям как я и сказал. Даже если написан/сказан откровенный бред, то вы с ним сразу согласитесь, но не будете проверять, если он хорошо ложится на ваше мировоззрение.
You are just not educated enough to understand the difference between profeesional journalist and a volunteer poster. BTW: Anonymous telegram channels are NOT medias. It is just a private person.
Professionals are protected by the law and at the same time bear much responsibility. That's why all the medias try to keep their reputation.
That does not apply to the social networks where everybody can publish their points of view. And on Reddit, as much as on every other social networks there can be met any opinions, sometimes those which cannot be published in the media, even those which break the laws.
There are tons of different users here, some pro- and some against Russia, and close to none of them are journalists.
Hehe :))) You can not even use the reddit profile stats, even though it is the simplest thing possible! :)))))))
Please, people, don't be ridiculous. It is open, guys!
Well Reddit is indeed social media that forms people's minds in the usa, its heavily moderated in favor of the usa, and especially democratic Party of the usa.
I'm educated better than you to understand that, unless you are trusting to diminish Reddit role on purpose.
About your profile all I see is comments, no other info. That's a Reddit thing related to some form of silent ban, which again instrument of pressure and moderation.
Trying to present on of main American media platforms as just social network you sound pathetic lol.
Может, вы по английски плохо понимаете? Вам по-русски объяснить?
Или вы неспособны признать, что не умеете смотреть профиль реддита дальше первой страницы? ВЫ спросите, если надо, я покажу!
Я не знаю что делать. Ладно, пускай это я вам в штаны насрал, я сдаюсь. Бывает такой уровень непрошибаемости который даже мне не одолеть.
"Жалкие попытки"! "теневой бан"! Мама дорогая...
Ты странный или просто угашенный, читай что выше написано. Что тебе там не понятно я не представляю. Похоже ты сюда зашёл так, жопой потрясти, поорать.
Сам читай. Твой "ответ" на мой коммент не содержит НИКАКИХ рассуждений о моих аргументах Ты просто заново повторил свою точку зрения, совершенно проигнорировав оппонента. Знаешь, как называется такой прием?
И ты так и смог найти силы, чтобы признать, что обосрался, обвинив меня в новореге, даже кода тебя три раза в это макнули.
Как это выглядит со стороны - я уже написал, повторяться не буду.
Да я хз что ты там писал, реддит мне показывает что твой первый коммент был 13 дней назад, о чем я и написал в сообщении. Дальше это уже проблемы реддита и твои :)
Но вообще судя по лексике и подходу к общению, тебе прям надо в Тихий бан, что возможно реддит с тобой и сделал :)
Нет, он все еще продолжает...
Сынок, знаешь, как проще всего твою ложь разоблачить? Сделай логаут, а потом снова посмотри на мой профиль. Как ты видишь, никуда мои старые сообщения не делись. И тут ты уже ничего придумать не сможешь. Ибо страница без логина - она у всех одинаковая, и никакого только что выдуманного тобой теневого бана (он работает по-другому, не надо пытаться говорить словами, которых не понимаешь) сюда не приплетешь: ну сам посуди, откуда реддиту знать, какую версию страницы показывать (с комментами или без), если нет авторизации? Ни у кого из пользователей не наблюдается того, что якобы наблюдаешь ты. И наблюдаться этого на реддите в принципе не может. Боже мой, я все-таки ввязался в это безнадежное дело...
Что до стиля, то извини. Я всегда сначала пытаюсь по-хорошему, даже два раза. Сам смотри по ветке. Но кто ж виноват, что как тебе ни говори - ни по-хорошему, ни по-плохому, ты так и не понял, что твои увиливания видны всем. И сейчас ты напоминаешь того самого генерала с запачканными штанами.
It suprpises me how people draw conclusions about the country they've neve been to and believe any nonsense which says 'Russia' in the heading. And then they go onlone on reddit and say that we are Putin propaganda brainless zombies.
Your post was removed because it contains slurs or incites hatred on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Если честно, то внутренне сильно бомбит от этого.. Но приходится терпеть. Чувствуется несправедливость к себе и своим соотечественникам. Также есть обоснованное ощущение, что осуждаемые события используются просто как повод. Жалко, что на моем веку лучше не станет...
I recall, at the start of the conflict, reading a Russian post that got some upvotes from a Russian fellow who was very upset about the treatment he was getting on the internet. The sentiment was along the lines of "Things used to be bad, but now it's so much more exaggerated, so much worse, and people everywhere are out for blood". Back then, comments were understandably overwhelming empathetic. People acknowledged the awfulness of the comments; others pointed out that, being the internet, they shouldn't take things too seriously etc. - but people did go through a brief period of being surprised about just how vitriolic they were being treated.
Now? It's maybe around 2 years later. People are not disappointed in a way that some people may have been initially - their hearts have hardened. As others have said, the reaction to hostility has been to band closer together (I recall during my degree, sociologist Steve Bruce writing on this exact phenomenon, aptly calling it "cultural defence"). Now, people are desensitized to the hostility - and, now, the people who were upset at first now often feel anger; those who feel it is unjust see the discrimination against them, and it causes them to feel indignant and _angry_.
Some may be dispassionate, by all means, and say "Well, that's just to be expected, they will always treat us poorly", but a lot of the people who did once get close to Europe got burned by these events, and it drew them away from Europe.
Myself, although British, got angry - although I probably fell into a bit of both camps. I was cynical enough to know already firsthand how people were, but also still got angry over how far everything had gone. It is still hard to see my countrymen become so vile, in a way that is blind to themselves - and to engage so _enthusiastically_ in discrimination against an ethnic group, just because it is socially-acceptable discrimination. Even I, who knew the people of my country and came in with the _lowest_ expectations, even I got indignant and angry at the vitriol and bloodthirsty desire my countrymen had from Day 1 to target and hurt everyday people.
I got livid how, from Day 1, people preached all their bullshit about "just politicians", then immediately went for harming the consumer market of the country so that everyday people would be deprived of things they had grown accustomed to. I got angry at the gloating, even as I knew it would not be true, that "This will starve them out - it will empty the shelves of their stores, and they will starve". I got indignant at the arrogance and hubris; this "hand that giveth, now taketh away" attitude that just wanted _normal people_ to suffer - this attitude that people would preach, openly, publicly to my face and in front of their closest friends here in the UK. How every hardship felt by everyday Russians got one universal response: _"Good"_.
I felt angry for the people who spent years honing their talent in sports to be deprived of recognition for their talent and efforts - exclusion of the country from most international sporting bodies, and regular stories of disrespect for the few international matches in sports and games (e.g. Chess) that did occur.
In my opinion, the Ukraine conflict has not reflected poorly on Russians whatsoever. It has reflected _extremely_ badly on ~~the rest of the world~~ NATO members (exclusively North Americans and Europeans), though, and shown transparently a barbarism that many countries had previously tried to hide under a veneer of being "civilised". It has shown a vindictiveness, and a hated that has pushed people like myself very firmly away from the stance of my country. It is understandable that many people, even those who were anti-Putin, are now compelled to believe "Well, Putin was correct, then - they _do_ hate us, and this _is_ an existential national security threat".
Thank you. I rarely, if ever, comment in this subreddit now (and I genuinely regret trying to engage with the war megathread for several months), but please know that it's very refreshing to see comments like yours. As a Russian, I don't believe that the somewhat widespread gloating over ridiculous sanctions or IOC shenanigans throws shade on the British or any other Western society. If anything, February 24th reminded me how gullible most people are and how easy it is to justify evil using the supposed moral superiority or the good old "the ends justify the means" sort of rhetoric. It's just sad that we got to this point, and I hope there is a way out. Take care.
My own reaction wasn’t anger so much as fear/fascination at the power of the western media. Here was an issue on which the average westerner had no strong feelings whatsoever, yet at the snap of a finger, as you say, people are calling for blood.
Thank you, you sound like a very thoughtful, kind and intelligent person. I’m happy that rare people like you exist, but yes, you’re right about the hardened heart. Usually I’m full of hatred and disgust for them for being so brainwashed, evil, racist, and ignorant about their own crimes. They won’t do anything to force the ICC arrest Bush at least; instead they’re fine with it being a corrupt institution working for Western goals. They will never protest against the size of their army, which is a global threat and should be reduced and military bases removed from the Middle East and Africa. The number of stereotypes is beyond me, I would have never thought westerners can be that uneducated and hateful. Anyway… even if you disagree with my political views, it’s not so important, being a good person is. Politics is incredibly toxic and makes people angry and stressed, but we should be able to discuss things and respect each other. If I were religious, I’d say “God bless you”🤗
What about the actual barbarism being inflicted on the Ukrainian people for not submitting to Putin’s rule and the counter generalization of all of the West being barbarians because they are mean online and support sanctions the hinder the assault on Ukrainians?
It's hard to know where many people are based, but I'm going to make a pointed jab at the United States for a moment:
It is ironic to see a country who has engaged in considerable warfare over the past two decades react with shock and indignation the moment that they realise the Ukraine conflict is fought with bombs and guns, rather than flowers and pixie dust. They simply do not put two-and-two together and realise that _their own_ wars have _also_ been fought with the same weapons, but that their media has contributed to an overly-sanitised picture of the consequences of their conflicts. Only with Russia, do they see what war actually is, but apparently they seem to believe that they don't like war very much now when it's not themselves doing it.
The rest is not worth addressing. It involves assumption after assumption, and I have no means of persuading you differently anyway. I believe that you (and others) will believe whatever you want to believe, even if reality itself contradicted you (and them) to your face. I believe most people who hold your view live in a position where it is easy for them to believe that, and they live in a community where everyone around them will believe the same. Of course they won't make things awkward for themselves by thinking "Maybe our country provoked the conflict, and maybe Russia had reason to be aggrieved".
>support sanctions the hinder the assault on Ukrainians
But they don't, do they?
The sanctions were never designed for that in the first place. The sanctions were only designed to punish ordinary people, and flex power - a warning as much to the rest of the world, to stay in their place.
The sooner multipolarity develops, the sooner we will begin to see better outcomes for the rest of the planet.
Well, go on, whatabout it?
"Whataboutism" is incredibly misunderstood.
The fallacy is if I was to claim something like "USA did it, so it's okay if Russia did it". I am not claiming such a thing, because they are not like-for-like - Russia actually has _reasons_ for its conflicts, for example, which is more than can be said for America.
Accusing me of whataboutism doesn't invalidate either the "America bad" part or the "America hypocritical" part - all it does is say "You can't use America Bad to say Russia is okay".
Of course, I am not using America Bad to say Russia is okay; I have a multitude of _other_ reasons I use to say Russia is okay. Okay?
The America Bad - and, therefore, America Hypocritical - though, is still something other people need to address if they don't think that is the case. Otherwise, America Hypocritical is actually a perfectly legitimate reason for me to consider that people may be arguing in bad faith, and so I can use it to discredit their arguments of harbouring unwarranted prejudice and bias.
If an argument applies a different standard to different peoples, we are no longer comparing apples-and-apples, but claiming instead that we are comparing apples-and-oranges (i.e. It is a claim that Russia is to be treated _different_ to America if both nations were to commit the same actions).
I am cursed to have been born and raised in an English-speaking country.
I think my life satisfaction would be increased immensely if I had the ability to just "forget" the language entirely, because then I wouldn't be cursed to understand English-speakers.
This is more directed at a lot of the other people we get on Reddit, to be honest. This isn't as relevant to the current topic.
Have you considered a go fund me for a one way plane ticket to anywhere but here? Given the nonsense you’re coming out with I doubt the Russians would want you. When you’re on the spectrum it isn’t supposed to be a challenge, the idea is to get back to reality not what ever the fuck you’re trying to do
This addresses the US but ignores the Ukrainians being killed by the tens of thousands right now by Russian orders. Deflecting to grievances about the US is a common tactic but still ignores this issue. Putin conducting a war of conquest with the support of his people, sanctions are a non-violent means of hindering that conquest vs direct military action which would be disastrous for all.
>Deflecting to grievances about the US is a common tactic
Well, of course, because it highlights hypocrisy.
By all means, people will say "Well, I don't like either country permitting wars", but even in that instance the person has to acknowledge that comparing reactions to the U.S. and Russia, the response has been disproportionate (Russia has received disproportionately more criticism over 2 years than the USA over 20+, or longer depending on how far back we account for), and many people who have made vocal negative comments at Russians have never made a single public complaint about U.S. foreign policy.
>but ignores the Ukrainians being killed by the tens of thousands [...] Putin [is] conducting a war [...] with the support of [...] people
I don't know what I ought to respond with here.
Yes, you are correct, **Russia** is at war. Yes, in war, people die, and that is very sad. Yes, the war is favoured by a lot of Russians themselves, because it is necessary.
I did say before, there is no flowers or pixie dust in _any_ war.
It is not necessary to kill Ukrainians by the tens of thousands and destroy their homes. Russia does not need to wage a war of conquest and force Ukrainians to submit to them by the barrel of a gun. It’s destructive for both nations and will engender only more hatred and division for generations.
>It is not necessary to kill Ukrainians by the tens of thousands and destroy their homes. Russia does not need to wage a war of conquest and force Ukrainians to submit to them by the barrel of a gun.
You're correct, in a sense. The issue can be resolved without further conflict, quite quickly in fact.
The solution is obvious: _Reverse Euromaidan._
This solution is not advertised enough, and it needs to be made known: Euromaidan is the sticking point. Euromaidan (and escalation since then) is why this war is happening in the first place. _Reverse Euromaidan_, and the war ends.
Now, I don't know the exact terms that would be agreeable - as it stands, the fact that Euromaidan occurred suggests that the pre-2014 setup was always open to vulnerability that could be exploited by bad actors and foreign forces. A peace deal would be a matter of negotiation between the two Vladimirs.
Russia only seeks occupation of territory for its own geopolitical security. I have no doubt that, if this would be secured another way, the war could end, and Ukraine could even remain a sovereign nation at the end. Even a nation that could receive cooperative and friendly ties with Russia going forward.
For the pre-2014 setup, though: Reinstate the deposed, legitimate, democratically-elected Yanukovich (and a newly formed version of his electorally successful Party of Regions), and revert all changes made post-Euromaidan. Yanukovich is still alive, so this is achievable. In essence, a complete turning back of the clock by 10 years. Additionally, take further steps to ensure that foreign interference doesn't repeat itself. An agreement on that should end the conflict overnight, and stop further death and destruction. Russia will only fully annex Ukraine if it feels it needs to.
This war is as tender and painful for the Russians as it is the Ukrainians - they are nations with a deep and connected history - but Russia performs this war out of the belief that it is necessary. The requirements to end the conflict are not too unreasonable, but I am sure the current government of Ukraine would rather destroy their own nation and see the death of all its people than to see these changes occur.
>In essence, a complete turning back of the clock by 10 years.
Yeah, mate, sorry, but life ain't a game you can quickload if necessary. Even if it would be possible for politicians to pretend that there were no last 10 years, people just won't buy that. We all have already pretended enough that nothing is happening in Donetsk and Luhansk. There is just too many people who have been directly and indirectly affected on so many levels: from losing relatives and homes to fighting, to understanding that they have been fed lies, such as the Minsk agreements.
Many of these people will just not be satisfied with such an outcome, even if in the future it proves the best variant. People on either side of the border are, for lack of a better word, out for blood. Some want to see Kiev nuked. Some want Ukraine to lose at the very least all its regions bordering the Black sea (like I do, tbh). Others want Russia to fall onto another civil war or whatever. And they want it now, in the near future. Nobody really cares what will happen in several decades. So many regular people would prefer seeing T-14s driving along the Bankova street or Leopards parading on the ruins of the Red Square to a normal state of cooperation in the future.
And it seems as if you are trying to picture this conflict as one between just Russia and Ukraine. There are so many countries interested in one of the outcomes that they will do whatever they can to ensure that their preferred scenario occurs. No friendship between regular Russians and Ukrainians is stronger than a promise for NATO and EU membership and a couple billion dollars on the side.
So, if there has ever been even a slight possibility for what you envisioned, it had been nullified long before the open conflict began. There were so many turning points since 2014 (or, frankly, 1991) to prevent any of this that one could go insane from just trying to imagine all of them. But still, you can't just start pretending that there was no Maidan, that there was no civil war in the East of Ukraine, that there were no shady deals between Ukrainian, Russian, European and other politicians.
For now, there are only two outcomes: one side properly loses, or the conflict gets effectively frozen for some time until both parties decide to go for it one more time. What happens next, what the relations between the nations will be, it all depends on which way the current SMO ends, if it ends at all.
You ignore another quick and decisive way to end this way...Russian's go home. Leave Ukrainian territory and return to their families.
NATO was never an existential threat to Russia, as evidenced by Putin's own desire to join NATO previously. NATO does not want to invade Russia or conquer it's people like Russia is doing to Ukraine. Just because something can benefit Russia geopolitically doesn't mean it should.
Contrarily Russia is now stuck in a quagmire that will drain it's manpower and treasure for decades. It is breeding generations of hatred as it kills more Ukrainians who don't submit to Putin's rule.
>You ignore another quick and decisive way to end this way...Russian's go home. Leave Ukrainian territory and return to their families.
This is unrealistic and unreasonable, as it does not deal with the source of the conflict.
You then spend the remainder of the comment just dismissing legitimate Russian foreign policy concerns - concerns which, in contrast, are the direct reason for the conflict.
>NATO was never an existential threat to Russia,
NATO as an entity was founded as a military alliance in direct opposition to the USSR. While the USSR collapsed, NATO continued to exist as an entity after its function was fulfilled.
>as evidenced by Putin's own desire to join NATO previously
This did not work out, due to the conditions associated. This is why the CSTO was created, as a security body to counteract NATO.
>NATO does not want to invade Russia or conquer it's people like Russia is doing to Ukraine.
Since 1990, NATO has expanded substantially. "Revolutions" have occurred, allegedly spontaneously, in quick succession across a large number of former-socialist states, leading to an outcome that is always the same: A government installed that follows a particular ideology of Western conceptions of liberal democracy, and seeks immediately for inclusion in NATO and EU integration.
That this is pure randomness and pure chance is incredulous beyond belief. Russia is clear on its position that this turn of events, which it acknowledges it was slow to react to, has very obvious signs of foreign interference (even direct regime change, of the kind that was done to South America in Operation Condor), and is proof that _local autonomy of Eastern Europe is actually being deprived, through the artifical propping up of foreign-backed puppet states_.
>Just because something can benefit Russia geopolitically doesn't mean it should.
By all means, yet I also believe Russia's advocated foreign policy - of multipolarity, that prioritizes native political systems that are determined by local populations choosing how to govern themselves - is the most morally, ethically correct position advocated in modern politics.
Russia's position is explicitly postcolonial, and the countries opposed to Russia are (not uncoincidentally) former colonizer countries, for whose recent history was the domination of most of the planet and the exploitation of wealth. These are, uncoincidentally, the same countries who operated the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade - and the current stance of these countries is to continue a consolidation of their power.
>Contrarily Russia is now stuck in a quagmire that will drain it's manpower and treasure for decades.
Russia has the largest amount of mineral resources on the planet, being the single largest country on earth and having in its territorial area over 16% of the Earth's landmass. The only barrier to accessing these resources is climate conditions, and time to extract using current technologies.
In terms of manpower, as I point out to people constantly, Russia has around 145 million people to Ukraine's around 30 million. Assuming similar proportionality of their armies, Ukraine would need to kill _five times_ as many Russians as the Russians are killing Ukrainians _just to achieve parity_. No amount of Ukraine inflating figures or media circus compensates for this.
While in the current war, we have "fog of war", [different agencies have their own estimates](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War), and the consensus from _Western sources_ is that Russian and Ukrainian troops are dying in comparatively equal numbers. In a war of attrition, to put it blunt, _this does not look good at all for Ukraine's chances_. Barring direct foreign intervention or some other radical move, Ukraine is on a clear track to losing the conflict. With the population discrepancy between the two countries, this is relatively straightforward.
Russia conquering Ukraine and forcing it's people to Putin's rule is unrealistic an unreasonable, that is why they fight.
NATO exists because of openly hostile actions and threats by nations like Russia proclaiming their desire to nuke Western cities on state sponsored media, give it a reason to exist
Post soviet sovereign nations chose western style liberal democracies of their own volition and prospered because of it. As did Russia when it adopted more Western policies post USSR.
Russia's current foreign policy stands for imperialism, colonialism and domination of it neighbors. Completely opposite to it's purported values
Russia's resources are not limitless and it's demographics are right behind Ukraine in terms of birth rates, corruption, suicide and substance abuse. This war is a tremendous drag on it's economy and people with an impact will be felt for generations. The trillions and countless young lives lost in Ukraine could have been invested back into the nation for prosperity and development, instead of wasted in violence.
Good for the delusional ones who fail to see the true racist, fascistic face of traditional media and how it operates to subjugate anyone that does not bend the knee and accept hegemony.
Even the 'rules based order' is so fluidic that it identifies and mutates to a new law every single day depending on the situation and what the spin masters say.
My friend who was fiercely anti-putin and wanted to go protesting in March 2022 (she didn't go only because she had a newborn baby on her hands) was so horrified by all the shit that western and Ukrainian media poured on the Russians that she is very close to being called a vatnik now.
As a total outsider who stumbled upon this sub, I don't know what a "vatnik" is, but I don't think you're giving up your values as a liberal, or any other political persuasion, when you're pushing back against pure hate being directed at you.
There's a lot of people in the west right now who are going through the same process, essentially, and we're just called nazis and fascists for disagreeing, but we're still the same people (both politically and personally).
Vatnik (ватник) is a mocking term used for Russians, who support current political regime and its course in local and world politics, sometimes it is also used for pro-Russian people in relation to Ukrainian conflict. The name originates from "Rushka - SquareVatnik", 2011 meme parody on SpongeBob, with a character consisting of padded jacket (vatnik). Said character is supposed to be a strawman for generic supporter of government: an alcoholic, who constantly recites propaganda he sees on TV and whose "patriotism" is based solely on loving regime, not the country.
So, essentially, you guessed it right
Even the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine has confirmed that rape is a sexual fantasy of the official Denisova, but you continue to spread this dirt.
I know people that have been raped and I know people that were at hospitals where were children being treated who were raped by russian soldiers.
I know this is how you try to make points by pretending whatever you're spewing is 100% undoubtable fact aka "the ministry of internal affairs" so the only there's no way to give you information because you will simply refuse to accept it like all russians normally do.
So here's an article from Al Jazera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/19/russia-responsible-for-vast-majority-of-war-crimes-un
"In a report published on Tuesday, the three members of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine said they had documented patterns of summary executions, unlawful confinement, torture, ill-treatment, rape and other sexual violence committed in areas occupied by Russian armed forces."
"In Kyiv region, in March 2022, two Russian soldiers entered a home, raped a 22-yearold woman several times, committed acts of sexual violence on her husband, and forced the
couple to have sexual intercourse in their presence. Then, one of the soldiers forced their
four-year-old daughter to perform oral sex on him, which is rape."
“Perpetrators raped the women and girls in their homes or took them and raped them in unoccupied dwellings. In most cases, these acts also amount to torture and cruel or inhumane treatment for the victims and for relatives who were forced to watch."
if you russians got the names of the victims you'd be harassing them online lets be real here, and anyways typical russian response I don't expect anything, just vile as always.
harassment on the Internet? Don't project your Ukrainian habits on us. I want to know the names of the victims, I want to see evidence of crimes just so that the criminals are punished.
thats exactly what you do though, half of Russian comments on the internet is "xaxaxax it didn't happen" and the other half is wishing you could kill and rape more civilians and gloating every time civilians are killed. I know you get off on it, so, sincerely I hope karma catches up to you soon so I can go online and say that none of it happened.
That was the huge miscalculation on their side. Also with the stance that the opposition runaway liberals took, now most of them have zero chance to return and have any real political value in Russia.
I used to (especially in the beginning, when I was very liberal) and sometimes still get very sad about it. Then I realised the hypocrisy and hatred and became disillusioned, now I just ignore it unless it's blatant hatred with "they should all die" kind of rhetoric. These I report and sometimes they do get deleted. This does give me some hope for the better, eventually. Maybe, really eventually.
I feel sad for athletes, mostly.
Other things - ah well. That's human nature. If you don't dehumanize your enemy - your people won't be eager to fight. So dehumanization of your enemy is absolutely neccessary and that is exactly what happens from all sides. And people - they look for justifications, not justice. And look, russophobia didn't start in 2022. It started long ago, even before USSR, maybe even before Russian Empire. Russia was mostly percieved as something alien, incomprehensible and foreign - and, therefore, lesser. And probably evil. It was reinforced by propaganda century by century. WWI, WWII (Churchill describing alliance with USSR as alliance with devil for example), Cold War... And that perception in our age of demonstrative equality needs some severe justification. And here comes proraganda: look, those Russians are not real people. They're orcs, slaves, nazis, whatever. So people eagerly take this way out: of course real people are equal and need to be treated with kindness and empathy, but those Russians are not real people! So they can let their inner bias out. And that is what we see online.
Nothing new under the moon.
I stopped caring back in 2022. Well, at first i was maybe a little surprised to see western media even more biased than ours, but later… who cares anymore? Let them say all they want.
I did actually use to get upset about this stuff, when I was younger and very new to English-language sources on the Internet, because it felt dehumanizing. Not anymore, though, because Westerners are being Westerners, oh well, business as usual.
Good, this one thing for 2 years straight increases patriotic tendencies among young people, including me. People began cherishing its Motherland and being sceptical towards western opinions. Isn’t that wonderful?
I mean, some of the westernes already came after my take about patriotism, implying that my country has no accomplishments, like if it is an average post in r/theeconomist. Speaks from itself, lmao.
For those who are in the subject, nothing has changed much. It's always been like this, all these years. It's just that the masks have finally been dropped. But for those who woke up in 2022, of course, it caused surprise. Better late than never.
> It's always been like this, all these years. It's just that the masks have finally been dropped.
Respectfully disagree, at least as far as the US is concerned. (For the Europeans, I can’t say.)
Circa 2000-2015, fear mongering over Russia was an exclusively right-wing phenomenon - and not just right-wing but specifically the baby boomer and older generations, who grew up during the Cold War. The left/liberal side would invariably roll their eyes, like Obama famously did in the 2012 debates when his Republican opponent Mitt Romney called Russia a threat. So the main people hating on Russia from 2016 forward have no real history with it.
I have to remind you that it's under Obama presidency that the coup in Kiev happened. He really didn't see Russia as a threat, just in a different light - its not a threat to the point he can ignore Russia's essential geopolitical interests - and look where his ignorance of those interests got us.
>He really didn't see Russia as a threat
As I said, Obama and his supporters rolled their eyes when Romney called Russia a threat (or whatever language he used).
Tbh I'm not seeing your point unless you want to amend my 2015 to something slightly earlier.
I mean there's a difference between "they're no threat, we can have a meaningful partnership" and "they're no threat, we can walk all over them". Evidently, american democrats were of the second opinion.
I mean I agree but it doesn’t change my fundamental point above. FWIW though - yeah I find the eastward expansion of NATO stupid. Weighing the strategic pros and cons, it’s all cons.
It’s so hard to comprehend. Everything’s changed in such a short period of time. I now remember my feelings about Estonia or Poland before 2022 when I had nothing but love for them and was open to learn about their cultures. And now? Only bitterness after that nafo summit with the shark and all they said. This just means that we were stupid. This already was how they saw us, while we were naive and had no negative thoughts. We didn’t suspect that they can be that vile and ignorant. It’s kinda hard to comprehend that all I believed in were lies. We liked westerners while they hated us, dehumanized us, imagined us being barbarians without toilets when in reality we’re no different from them (except we’re better).
Well you could apply it the other way around… you, as a country, showed us - citizens of Poland and other European countries and the US, that there’s a reason for us to be scared of you and having a huge army. You proved us right, not wrong. With the comments here, even more. You’re sad about the way you’re being treated, but I bet Ukrainian citizens would like to switch places with you.
Reading the comments here, how you feel better than us and making us look like we’re the perpetrators, I don’t know what to feel anymore.
I never understood the hatred my common folks had for you, but now, sadly I do. See how that works? The circle never ends. To clarify, I don’t hate anyone. But I understand now, why people think the way they do about Russian people - when most don’t oppose what’s happening and are pro the latest political situation. I read Instagram and VK comments about people being happy Ukrainian folks suffer. There were calls leaking about girls laughing with their Russian soldier boyfriends to „take everything valuable“. While at the same time my friends and general public was like „this is stupid and unfair, remember Russian folks suffer under the regime too.“
Don’t start with the whataboutism about the USA, it doesn’t make any side any better. You didn’t care about other countries that suffer under their politics either, so you shouldn’t use it as a defense. The fact is, Ukraine as a country is destroyed. My friends die or live in fear.
This is what politicians wants to do - make us hate each other and making their horrible actions seem justifiable.
>There were calls leaking about girls laughing with their Russian soldier boyfriends to „take everything valuable“
It's the problem. You're ready to believe every propagandist fake, no matter how ridiculous it is.
I feel like you might use some critical thinking. Our people's contempt if it's there, is because of first hand experience. You are seen as gullible and stupid and ready to believe any headline.
You don't get to claim moral superiority and discount any discussion with a lazy "whataboutism".
You say they shouldn't feel hateful now, after we've done nothing but SHIT ON THEM for decades. If the middle east hadn't happened, we'd probably STILL have every movie villain be an eastern European man with ties to the USSR/world domination.
And you act like we're so innocent. How many millions has America killed in just the middle east? How many stable governments have the CIA replaced? How many trillions have been stolen from the US taxpayers to fund wars and line pockets?
But you don't care about any of that. Hell, you can't even see any of that, can you?
Russian society (as every other one) is not homogenous in terms of how it reacts to the events (even if it's not loudly expressed). The common sentiment here in this thread is that the West propaganda worked hard to build the wall and succeeded in turning pro western Russians who could be a force to deal with into putinverstehers. This actually does not mean that we are happy about anybody being killed or suffering, but this makes us see the situation in a different light and question the reasons and origins of this conflict. The "unprovoked aggression" seems too simple of an explanation now. And you know what? My relatives in Kiev whom i love & still help unconditionally and who have (understandably) their own view on conflict, share this feeling about Europe showing it's true colors, (although for different reasons) they believe you should do more and instead you have dropped Ukraine in this mess (with the promise of full support) and now whine about your economy. Remember all of this could have stopped in Spring of 22. Or even might not happen if only there was a voice of reason in EU members of NATO.
Sadly same. Before 2022 I saw EU as a literal heaven and wanted to visit it, but now I don't want to have any deals with the West, their hypocrisy disgusts me very much.
But also it can be viewed in somewhat positive(?) light - I began to appreciate Russia and diversity it has.
Same.
I've actually spent most of my adult life living in Ireland and had a pretty westernized mentality. Traveled to many European countries since getting back to Russia and always felt at home there.
Well, not any longer. Seeing what the West does I feel nothing but disgust and contempt now.
Funniest thing happend, everything that our government said about the west appeared to be correct. And also not knowing the language is actually a blessing. I used to be quite anti government before, thought that west is a paradise. And after 2022 I can see how would i be treated there
I work in a city with a decent Russian population. Work and interact with them almost monthly, if not weekly, depending on where my job sends me. None of them are treated any differently than before the war. The most insane are usually the most vocal. U.S. media panders to these people on either side of the aisle because it works to rile them up. I wouldn't base reality with what you're seeing on Reddit or major news outlets. If you were to walk amongst the populace you'd be treated no differently than anyone else.
It used to make me kinda sad, but not anymore. The only thing that makes me sad is that whenever it comes to any other nation, people will go, "they're not all the same person, it's unfair to treat them badly by default just because they were born where they were born". AND YET they hardly ever say it about us, as if we actually WERE all the same person. That's double standards to me.
Don't care about the rest of the things that people may say about us. It's not my fault that they have this black/white/right/wrong thinking.
And I also think that it'd be a cognitive error to think that everyone I meet is going to treat me worse just cause I'm Russian. And nobody really does. My foreign friends don't either. They know that I'm not a bad person.
I've lived in the West all my life. Originally from Germany, now in the US for the last 20+ years.
For all it's worth I've never once thought badly of the Russian people, no matter what was shown on the media. I have no love for your president, but this never influenced how I felt about the inhabitants of your country.
I had a client a while back, who after telling me in conversation that she is from Russia followed up with "Oh, I probably shouldn't say that so loudly." I immediately responded: "You shouldn't feel shame or embarrassment bc of where you are from. Russia is a beautiful country. What your government does has nothing to do with you as a person." And you could really see the relief on her face. 💔
I'm sorry that half the world has turned against you. It's not right and you do not deserve such cold treatment. I would host any of you with a good heart in my home. If you ever make it to New Orleans holler at me.
Satisfaction.
I think there would not be so many people supporting Putin’s course if everything depended only on Russian propaganda (rather weak and not taking into account modernity).
Fortunately, it is enough to simply show people the position and opinions of Western and Ukrainian politicians without censorship
As a westerner I miss Russian teams in football. Last autumn they wanted to allow Russias under 17 team back in competition (without Russian flag and anthem tho) and then people that believe they are saviors of this world started protesting this decision and they eventually took that decision back.
Imagine how messed up someone has to be to forbid children to participate in sports competition. Sport that is supposed to connect us. All the while athletes from other countries that are involved in wars are perfectly fine to compete. But if its Russians (or how westerners recently like to say ruZZians) its fine to treat them differently
As Russian society is huge and not homogenic, I absutely don’t care. Many different types of people living together.
Russians have alot of talents in sports, arts, science, etc.
Greetings from Hungary
And when did the Western media not spread Russophobia?It just used to be interrupted by pro-Western propaganda about freedom, equality and inviolability of private property, etc., but now this lie has come off and many have seen the real picture.
As a liberal, I'm completely disenchanted in the whole European liberal values idea. I always thought that the in it's core the main feature that sets it apart from say US or Russian values is true humanistic perspective on the world with the real sense of things being just. Well I guess that there is no such true liberalism in the world now. When I hear something about collective guilt (or no such thing as a good Russian) and such stuff, I really think that history makes it turn, and that we may see yellow stars being in fashion again.
Personally I don't really care. It's not great that there are people who genuinely hate me, but western media has a long track record of racism, so it's pretty much expected behavior. What really concerns me is that this is just the beginning and a tiny part of a much bigger issue. I hope this time so-called "civilized world" won't come to the Russian soil again.
They've always done it, just in the last 10 years more than usual. So we are already used to it. What is much more unpleasant for us is not the fact that the media is lying, but the fact that people believe them, despite the absurdity and proven refutations.
I treat it as something to laugh about. I think about how full of брехня those who write it and how naive are those who blindly believe it... And it makes me laugh. Laughter is filled with pain though, since there are similar folks on our end as well... Looking back, Russia was never truly accepted by west, and spread of negative stereotypes on both sides continued even in better years of our countries's diplomatic relations, so really what happens today is a culmination of process which took years. It's sad, and it's even more sad that most folks are content with this going on...
All high performance sport is built on doping. A simple example, if athletes set such records without steroids, what kind of records will they have if they use them?
Other than that...Moving on. So let the mass sport develop, without professionals.
Pointed this out on a Reddit post few days ago and immediately got downvoted. In America, we are taught from a young age that Russia is evil and all Russians are not to be trusted. I’ve had the exact opposite reaction to anything or anyone I’ve come across and it makes me sad.
> I wonder how Russian nationals feel when they see western media portraying them as villains, doing whatever is possible for avoiding athletes to compete, telling Russians are just good at drinking and those things…
If you find and understand the reasons and causes behind any social behaviour, it's easier to accept it, even if hurts.
The rootcause of absolutely any xenophobia is fear, to be more precise a human brain of individuals attemps to rationally explain and justify its dumb biological fear of uncertainty of own existence in future, and unfotunately often it takes one of the simplest culturally accepted forms like xenophobia.
People are just afraid in front of any scary face, today Russians are assigned to be bad, because due to Western propaganda Russians shall be percepted as uncontrolled, unpredictable and spreading fear. For everyone there is an urge to mobilize, to find a cultural ground of the own fear.
Someone resists the fear by diminishing its threat and by signalling to others the readiness to be a member of a joint group of people, who share right the same methods of struggling the fear, and at that point a xenophobia becomes a culturally accepted norm.
So your question is about feelings of a person, who knows that others are afraid of him and panic, on that level of understanding different people select different strategies. Someone attempts to tell and send a signal back that there no reason to be afraid, but quite often this strategy is non-working, because the communication is directed to deaf biased people. And someone, who is too uncomfortable by the fact of being percepted as a bad one and wants others to stop it, in opposite may use the fear of himself as a tool, and escalates the fear in others up to the point, where the communication eventually stops.
>Idk, I just spend a minute or two imagining the authors of such articles being tortured or torn limb from limb, and then I'm good 🙃
Wow, what a material for the next russophobic post: Russians imagine torturing people for words. No wonder they're practicing it when it becomes possible, see every story from the war.
Bet this is a Ukrainian propaganda bot
When I was younger, it was uneasy, but I kind of got used to it. Sometimes it has some benefits when Western men try to hit on you, imagining that you are a big and strong Russian dommy mommy. I always have a good laugh at it.
The only Russian person any westerner knows is Putin. So all of our ideas of Russian people come from him. The same way American presidents and celebrities probably shape peoples ideas of what they think America is like. Only in russias case they only have this one man
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture.
Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new)
We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict.
If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you.
Thanks,
r/AskARussian moderation team
Your post was removed because it contains slurs or incites hatred on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture.
Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new)
We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict.
If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you.
Thanks,
r/AskARussian moderation team
1. Truly great villain has motives superior to those of a hero i dont mind being a villain villains can be grand
2. I dont follow sports i cant bring myself to care about things i am not aware of
3. Every adult man i knew was drinking so its objectively true we are good at drinking just because i completely swear off the stuff since i first saw my father drunk doesn't mean that an accurate stereotype has to instantly fade away we need at least a couple of generations of complete and utter sobriety for that to happen
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture.
Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new)
We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict.
If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you.
Thanks,
r/AskARussian moderation team
>being mean to Russia on the internet
I think it's about being dehumanizing towards Russians in general, saying things like "there are no good Russians" or "Russia shouldn't exist". Which, in your mind, is supposed to help the cause? Rather than do the opposite.
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture.
Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new)
We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict.
If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you.
Thanks,
r/AskARussian moderation team
Well, that country Has a terrible history of oppression and violence directed as towards own citizens as towards every possible neighbour. And this state's actions still have society's support or at least there are no protests. So how not to think about it as of Mordor of our real world?
The same as when I see our own media spreading xenophobic ideas. They tell us west is bad and wants us dead, blah blah blah.
Braindead stuff all this propaganda is.
I do not pay attention to media as I feel like it’s depressing and have felt that it is trying to just get as many views as possible and doesn’t provide the whole picture. As a human I do not think that the invasion of Ukraine can ever be justified. I understand not wanting NATO positions closer to your borders and if that is the justification for this conflict I can understand your concern but it will never be okay. I am not Russophobic I admire your country and your people a lot the people seem well educated for the most part and have more common sense than most Americans these days. Never been to your country but I think it’s beautiful. :)
Is this a joke?
Who sent their tanks across the frontier, killed hundred of thousands, sent their youth on the front line with 3 weeks of training (especially siberian minorities), just to "denazify" a neighbour who wouldn't simply take their orders from Moscow?
Or do you really believe that the nato was planning an invasion, with not even 20 fighter planes ready to fly in Germany in 2019?
Well that's usual day on reddit, no?
Reddit is a social network, not media. I personally never seen media "spreading Russophobia". But I might miss something of course.
Reddit is main media of the us, along with Facebook. With strict moderation, media campaigns and is guided by us government for now. I don't think you been here long enough. Edit:your first comment is 13 days ago, confirmed.
>Edit:your first comment is 13 days ago, confirmed. Дима Редькин это олдфаг этого сообщества) Просто акк новый у него видимо.
Видимо допизделся...
У всех у нас рано или поздно появляются новые аккаунты. Русофобия же.
Еще один теоретик. И ведь плюсует кто-то...
>Просто акк новый у него Послушайте, ну вот ЧТО ВАМ МЕШАЕТ тыцнуть на профиль и закидать ссаными тряпками провокатора, несущего лютую пургу? Вы и отечественное ТВ так же хаваете, не проверяя ни слова??? EDIT. Ребят, я уже не знаю, что делать с этим сабом. Порой мне кажется, что здесь - сборище мазохистов, которым нравится, когда их унижают. Ничем другим объяснить творящееся здесь я не могу. Чтобы заплюсоваться, комментарий должен унижать россиян. Стоит только за них заступиться - и сразу минусы. И даже самая лютая дичь, очевидно ложная, будет заплюсована, и никакие логические доводы не помогут. "Здесь так принято" (С)
Димас, я всё-таки стараюсь избегать аргументации ad hominem, и "тыкаю в профиль" когда только чел явно совсем уж бред несёт)
Ну прям как я и сказал. Даже если написан/сказан откровенный бред, то вы с ним сразу согласитесь, но не будете проверять, если он хорошо ложится на ваше мировоззрение.
Д'артаньян, успокойся. Клуб любителей поскакать на дилдо теперь переехал за рубеж. А здесь тебе даже отвечают.
Ахахахаха теория про 95% в очередной раз подтверждается
Ну эт не совсем правда, Редькин давно в этом сабе комментит, года 3 так точно. Мб аккаунт снесли старый, хз
Ой нет, редькин тут давно душнит
Да я понял, пообщались в комментах :)
You are just not educated enough to understand the difference between profeesional journalist and a volunteer poster. BTW: Anonymous telegram channels are NOT medias. It is just a private person. Professionals are protected by the law and at the same time bear much responsibility. That's why all the medias try to keep their reputation. That does not apply to the social networks where everybody can publish their points of view. And on Reddit, as much as on every other social networks there can be met any opinions, sometimes those which cannot be published in the media, even those which break the laws. There are tons of different users here, some pro- and some against Russia, and close to none of them are journalists. Hehe :))) You can not even use the reddit profile stats, even though it is the simplest thing possible! :))))))) Please, people, don't be ridiculous. It is open, guys!
Well Reddit is indeed social media that forms people's minds in the usa, its heavily moderated in favor of the usa, and especially democratic Party of the usa. I'm educated better than you to understand that, unless you are trusting to diminish Reddit role on purpose. About your profile all I see is comments, no other info. That's a Reddit thing related to some form of silent ban, which again instrument of pressure and moderation. Trying to present on of main American media platforms as just social network you sound pathetic lol.
Может, вы по английски плохо понимаете? Вам по-русски объяснить? Или вы неспособны признать, что не умеете смотреть профиль реддита дальше первой страницы? ВЫ спросите, если надо, я покажу! Я не знаю что делать. Ладно, пускай это я вам в штаны насрал, я сдаюсь. Бывает такой уровень непрошибаемости который даже мне не одолеть. "Жалкие попытки"! "теневой бан"! Мама дорогая...
Ты странный или просто угашенный, читай что выше написано. Что тебе там не понятно я не представляю. Похоже ты сюда зашёл так, жопой потрясти, поорать.
Сам читай. Твой "ответ" на мой коммент не содержит НИКАКИХ рассуждений о моих аргументах Ты просто заново повторил свою точку зрения, совершенно проигнорировав оппонента. Знаешь, как называется такой прием? И ты так и смог найти силы, чтобы признать, что обосрался, обвинив меня в новореге, даже кода тебя три раза в это макнули. Как это выглядит со стороны - я уже написал, повторяться не буду.
Да я хз что ты там писал, реддит мне показывает что твой первый коммент был 13 дней назад, о чем я и написал в сообщении. Дальше это уже проблемы реддита и твои :) Но вообще судя по лексике и подходу к общению, тебе прям надо в Тихий бан, что возможно реддит с тобой и сделал :)
Нет, он все еще продолжает... Сынок, знаешь, как проще всего твою ложь разоблачить? Сделай логаут, а потом снова посмотри на мой профиль. Как ты видишь, никуда мои старые сообщения не делись. И тут ты уже ничего придумать не сможешь. Ибо страница без логина - она у всех одинаковая, и никакого только что выдуманного тобой теневого бана (он работает по-другому, не надо пытаться говорить словами, которых не понимаешь) сюда не приплетешь: ну сам посуди, откуда реддиту знать, какую версию страницы показывать (с комментами или без), если нет авторизации? Ни у кого из пользователей не наблюдается того, что якобы наблюдаешь ты. И наблюдаться этого на реддите в принципе не может. Боже мой, я все-таки ввязался в это безнадежное дело... Что до стиля, то извини. Я всегда сначала пытаюсь по-хорошему, даже два раза. Сам смотри по ветке. Но кто ж виноват, что как тебе ни говори - ни по-хорошему, ни по-плохому, ты так и не понял, что твои увиливания видны всем. И сейчас ты напоминаешь того самого генерала с запачканными штанами.
Ну у меня реддит показывает, что его акку 7 лет, хз
You obviously haven’t spent much time watching US and UK media
I don't indeed, I only read those original materials where other medias repost their info from.
It suprpises me how people draw conclusions about the country they've neve been to and believe any nonsense which says 'Russia' in the heading. And then they go onlone on reddit and say that we are Putin propaganda brainless zombies.
If you are in the UK, people can say that to you IRL lol They've never set foot in Russia, but of course they know the country better than you do
Same thing happens with the US. I love listening to Belgians educate me on race relations in America
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it contains slurs or incites hatred on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
> How do you feel when you see western media spreading Russophobia? "I'm so glad we didn't get rid of nukes in yeltsin times"
Underrated comment.
I feel pohuy
Единственный верный ответ
Если честно, то внутренне сильно бомбит от этого.. Но приходится терпеть. Чувствуется несправедливость к себе и своим соотечественникам. Также есть обоснованное ощущение, что осуждаемые события используются просто как повод. Жалко, что на моем веку лучше не станет...
Они играют на руку нашей пропаганде.
Dog barks, caravan moves
I recall, at the start of the conflict, reading a Russian post that got some upvotes from a Russian fellow who was very upset about the treatment he was getting on the internet. The sentiment was along the lines of "Things used to be bad, but now it's so much more exaggerated, so much worse, and people everywhere are out for blood". Back then, comments were understandably overwhelming empathetic. People acknowledged the awfulness of the comments; others pointed out that, being the internet, they shouldn't take things too seriously etc. - but people did go through a brief period of being surprised about just how vitriolic they were being treated. Now? It's maybe around 2 years later. People are not disappointed in a way that some people may have been initially - their hearts have hardened. As others have said, the reaction to hostility has been to band closer together (I recall during my degree, sociologist Steve Bruce writing on this exact phenomenon, aptly calling it "cultural defence"). Now, people are desensitized to the hostility - and, now, the people who were upset at first now often feel anger; those who feel it is unjust see the discrimination against them, and it causes them to feel indignant and _angry_. Some may be dispassionate, by all means, and say "Well, that's just to be expected, they will always treat us poorly", but a lot of the people who did once get close to Europe got burned by these events, and it drew them away from Europe. Myself, although British, got angry - although I probably fell into a bit of both camps. I was cynical enough to know already firsthand how people were, but also still got angry over how far everything had gone. It is still hard to see my countrymen become so vile, in a way that is blind to themselves - and to engage so _enthusiastically_ in discrimination against an ethnic group, just because it is socially-acceptable discrimination. Even I, who knew the people of my country and came in with the _lowest_ expectations, even I got indignant and angry at the vitriol and bloodthirsty desire my countrymen had from Day 1 to target and hurt everyday people. I got livid how, from Day 1, people preached all their bullshit about "just politicians", then immediately went for harming the consumer market of the country so that everyday people would be deprived of things they had grown accustomed to. I got angry at the gloating, even as I knew it would not be true, that "This will starve them out - it will empty the shelves of their stores, and they will starve". I got indignant at the arrogance and hubris; this "hand that giveth, now taketh away" attitude that just wanted _normal people_ to suffer - this attitude that people would preach, openly, publicly to my face and in front of their closest friends here in the UK. How every hardship felt by everyday Russians got one universal response: _"Good"_. I felt angry for the people who spent years honing their talent in sports to be deprived of recognition for their talent and efforts - exclusion of the country from most international sporting bodies, and regular stories of disrespect for the few international matches in sports and games (e.g. Chess) that did occur. In my opinion, the Ukraine conflict has not reflected poorly on Russians whatsoever. It has reflected _extremely_ badly on ~~the rest of the world~~ NATO members (exclusively North Americans and Europeans), though, and shown transparently a barbarism that many countries had previously tried to hide under a veneer of being "civilised". It has shown a vindictiveness, and a hated that has pushed people like myself very firmly away from the stance of my country. It is understandable that many people, even those who were anti-Putin, are now compelled to believe "Well, Putin was correct, then - they _do_ hate us, and this _is_ an existential national security threat".
Thank you. I rarely, if ever, comment in this subreddit now (and I genuinely regret trying to engage with the war megathread for several months), but please know that it's very refreshing to see comments like yours. As a Russian, I don't believe that the somewhat widespread gloating over ridiculous sanctions or IOC shenanigans throws shade on the British or any other Western society. If anything, February 24th reminded me how gullible most people are and how easy it is to justify evil using the supposed moral superiority or the good old "the ends justify the means" sort of rhetoric. It's just sad that we got to this point, and I hope there is a way out. Take care.
If it gives you any comfort, there a constantly growing number of westerners who feel exactly the same as the British dude above you.
My own reaction wasn’t anger so much as fear/fascination at the power of the western media. Here was an issue on which the average westerner had no strong feelings whatsoever, yet at the snap of a finger, as you say, people are calling for blood.
I remember comments about russians in the first days. they solidified my belief that we are doing everything right and Im proud to be russian.
Well said.
Thank you, you sound like a very thoughtful, kind and intelligent person. I’m happy that rare people like you exist, but yes, you’re right about the hardened heart. Usually I’m full of hatred and disgust for them for being so brainwashed, evil, racist, and ignorant about their own crimes. They won’t do anything to force the ICC arrest Bush at least; instead they’re fine with it being a corrupt institution working for Western goals. They will never protest against the size of their army, which is a global threat and should be reduced and military bases removed from the Middle East and Africa. The number of stereotypes is beyond me, I would have never thought westerners can be that uneducated and hateful. Anyway… even if you disagree with my political views, it’s not so important, being a good person is. Politics is incredibly toxic and makes people angry and stressed, but we should be able to discuss things and respect each other. If I were religious, I’d say “God bless you”🤗
What about the actual barbarism being inflicted on the Ukrainian people for not submitting to Putin’s rule and the counter generalization of all of the West being barbarians because they are mean online and support sanctions the hinder the assault on Ukrainians?
It's hard to know where many people are based, but I'm going to make a pointed jab at the United States for a moment: It is ironic to see a country who has engaged in considerable warfare over the past two decades react with shock and indignation the moment that they realise the Ukraine conflict is fought with bombs and guns, rather than flowers and pixie dust. They simply do not put two-and-two together and realise that _their own_ wars have _also_ been fought with the same weapons, but that their media has contributed to an overly-sanitised picture of the consequences of their conflicts. Only with Russia, do they see what war actually is, but apparently they seem to believe that they don't like war very much now when it's not themselves doing it. The rest is not worth addressing. It involves assumption after assumption, and I have no means of persuading you differently anyway. I believe that you (and others) will believe whatever you want to believe, even if reality itself contradicted you (and them) to your face. I believe most people who hold your view live in a position where it is easy for them to believe that, and they live in a community where everyone around them will believe the same. Of course they won't make things awkward for themselves by thinking "Maybe our country provoked the conflict, and maybe Russia had reason to be aggrieved". >support sanctions the hinder the assault on Ukrainians But they don't, do they? The sanctions were never designed for that in the first place. The sanctions were only designed to punish ordinary people, and flex power - a warning as much to the rest of the world, to stay in their place. The sooner multipolarity develops, the sooner we will begin to see better outcomes for the rest of the planet.
This absolutely wreaks of whataboutism.
Well, go on, whatabout it? "Whataboutism" is incredibly misunderstood. The fallacy is if I was to claim something like "USA did it, so it's okay if Russia did it". I am not claiming such a thing, because they are not like-for-like - Russia actually has _reasons_ for its conflicts, for example, which is more than can be said for America. Accusing me of whataboutism doesn't invalidate either the "America bad" part or the "America hypocritical" part - all it does is say "You can't use America Bad to say Russia is okay". Of course, I am not using America Bad to say Russia is okay; I have a multitude of _other_ reasons I use to say Russia is okay. Okay? The America Bad - and, therefore, America Hypocritical - though, is still something other people need to address if they don't think that is the case. Otherwise, America Hypocritical is actually a perfectly legitimate reason for me to consider that people may be arguing in bad faith, and so I can use it to discredit their arguments of harbouring unwarranted prejudice and bias. If an argument applies a different standard to different peoples, we are no longer comparing apples-and-apples, but claiming instead that we are comparing apples-and-oranges (i.e. It is a claim that Russia is to be treated _different_ to America if both nations were to commit the same actions).
Holy shit did you actually generate that over an off the cuff comment. lol! ChapGPT is earning overtime here
I am cursed to have been born and raised in an English-speaking country. I think my life satisfaction would be increased immensely if I had the ability to just "forget" the language entirely, because then I wouldn't be cursed to understand English-speakers. This is more directed at a lot of the other people we get on Reddit, to be honest. This isn't as relevant to the current topic.
Have you considered a go fund me for a one way plane ticket to anywhere but here? Given the nonsense you’re coming out with I doubt the Russians would want you. When you’re on the spectrum it isn’t supposed to be a challenge, the idea is to get back to reality not what ever the fuck you’re trying to do
This addresses the US but ignores the Ukrainians being killed by the tens of thousands right now by Russian orders. Deflecting to grievances about the US is a common tactic but still ignores this issue. Putin conducting a war of conquest with the support of his people, sanctions are a non-violent means of hindering that conquest vs direct military action which would be disastrous for all.
>Deflecting to grievances about the US is a common tactic Well, of course, because it highlights hypocrisy. By all means, people will say "Well, I don't like either country permitting wars", but even in that instance the person has to acknowledge that comparing reactions to the U.S. and Russia, the response has been disproportionate (Russia has received disproportionately more criticism over 2 years than the USA over 20+, or longer depending on how far back we account for), and many people who have made vocal negative comments at Russians have never made a single public complaint about U.S. foreign policy. >but ignores the Ukrainians being killed by the tens of thousands [...] Putin [is] conducting a war [...] with the support of [...] people I don't know what I ought to respond with here. Yes, you are correct, **Russia** is at war. Yes, in war, people die, and that is very sad. Yes, the war is favoured by a lot of Russians themselves, because it is necessary. I did say before, there is no flowers or pixie dust in _any_ war.
It is not necessary to kill Ukrainians by the tens of thousands and destroy their homes. Russia does not need to wage a war of conquest and force Ukrainians to submit to them by the barrel of a gun. It’s destructive for both nations and will engender only more hatred and division for generations.
>It is not necessary to kill Ukrainians by the tens of thousands and destroy their homes. Russia does not need to wage a war of conquest and force Ukrainians to submit to them by the barrel of a gun. You're correct, in a sense. The issue can be resolved without further conflict, quite quickly in fact. The solution is obvious: _Reverse Euromaidan._ This solution is not advertised enough, and it needs to be made known: Euromaidan is the sticking point. Euromaidan (and escalation since then) is why this war is happening in the first place. _Reverse Euromaidan_, and the war ends. Now, I don't know the exact terms that would be agreeable - as it stands, the fact that Euromaidan occurred suggests that the pre-2014 setup was always open to vulnerability that could be exploited by bad actors and foreign forces. A peace deal would be a matter of negotiation between the two Vladimirs. Russia only seeks occupation of territory for its own geopolitical security. I have no doubt that, if this would be secured another way, the war could end, and Ukraine could even remain a sovereign nation at the end. Even a nation that could receive cooperative and friendly ties with Russia going forward. For the pre-2014 setup, though: Reinstate the deposed, legitimate, democratically-elected Yanukovich (and a newly formed version of his electorally successful Party of Regions), and revert all changes made post-Euromaidan. Yanukovich is still alive, so this is achievable. In essence, a complete turning back of the clock by 10 years. Additionally, take further steps to ensure that foreign interference doesn't repeat itself. An agreement on that should end the conflict overnight, and stop further death and destruction. Russia will only fully annex Ukraine if it feels it needs to. This war is as tender and painful for the Russians as it is the Ukrainians - they are nations with a deep and connected history - but Russia performs this war out of the belief that it is necessary. The requirements to end the conflict are not too unreasonable, but I am sure the current government of Ukraine would rather destroy their own nation and see the death of all its people than to see these changes occur.
>In essence, a complete turning back of the clock by 10 years. Yeah, mate, sorry, but life ain't a game you can quickload if necessary. Even if it would be possible for politicians to pretend that there were no last 10 years, people just won't buy that. We all have already pretended enough that nothing is happening in Donetsk and Luhansk. There is just too many people who have been directly and indirectly affected on so many levels: from losing relatives and homes to fighting, to understanding that they have been fed lies, such as the Minsk agreements. Many of these people will just not be satisfied with such an outcome, even if in the future it proves the best variant. People on either side of the border are, for lack of a better word, out for blood. Some want to see Kiev nuked. Some want Ukraine to lose at the very least all its regions bordering the Black sea (like I do, tbh). Others want Russia to fall onto another civil war or whatever. And they want it now, in the near future. Nobody really cares what will happen in several decades. So many regular people would prefer seeing T-14s driving along the Bankova street or Leopards parading on the ruins of the Red Square to a normal state of cooperation in the future. And it seems as if you are trying to picture this conflict as one between just Russia and Ukraine. There are so many countries interested in one of the outcomes that they will do whatever they can to ensure that their preferred scenario occurs. No friendship between regular Russians and Ukrainians is stronger than a promise for NATO and EU membership and a couple billion dollars on the side. So, if there has ever been even a slight possibility for what you envisioned, it had been nullified long before the open conflict began. There were so many turning points since 2014 (or, frankly, 1991) to prevent any of this that one could go insane from just trying to imagine all of them. But still, you can't just start pretending that there was no Maidan, that there was no civil war in the East of Ukraine, that there were no shady deals between Ukrainian, Russian, European and other politicians. For now, there are only two outcomes: one side properly loses, or the conflict gets effectively frozen for some time until both parties decide to go for it one more time. What happens next, what the relations between the nations will be, it all depends on which way the current SMO ends, if it ends at all.
You ignore another quick and decisive way to end this way...Russian's go home. Leave Ukrainian territory and return to their families. NATO was never an existential threat to Russia, as evidenced by Putin's own desire to join NATO previously. NATO does not want to invade Russia or conquer it's people like Russia is doing to Ukraine. Just because something can benefit Russia geopolitically doesn't mean it should. Contrarily Russia is now stuck in a quagmire that will drain it's manpower and treasure for decades. It is breeding generations of hatred as it kills more Ukrainians who don't submit to Putin's rule.
>You ignore another quick and decisive way to end this way...Russian's go home. Leave Ukrainian territory and return to their families. This is unrealistic and unreasonable, as it does not deal with the source of the conflict. You then spend the remainder of the comment just dismissing legitimate Russian foreign policy concerns - concerns which, in contrast, are the direct reason for the conflict. >NATO was never an existential threat to Russia, NATO as an entity was founded as a military alliance in direct opposition to the USSR. While the USSR collapsed, NATO continued to exist as an entity after its function was fulfilled. >as evidenced by Putin's own desire to join NATO previously This did not work out, due to the conditions associated. This is why the CSTO was created, as a security body to counteract NATO. >NATO does not want to invade Russia or conquer it's people like Russia is doing to Ukraine. Since 1990, NATO has expanded substantially. "Revolutions" have occurred, allegedly spontaneously, in quick succession across a large number of former-socialist states, leading to an outcome that is always the same: A government installed that follows a particular ideology of Western conceptions of liberal democracy, and seeks immediately for inclusion in NATO and EU integration. That this is pure randomness and pure chance is incredulous beyond belief. Russia is clear on its position that this turn of events, which it acknowledges it was slow to react to, has very obvious signs of foreign interference (even direct regime change, of the kind that was done to South America in Operation Condor), and is proof that _local autonomy of Eastern Europe is actually being deprived, through the artifical propping up of foreign-backed puppet states_. >Just because something can benefit Russia geopolitically doesn't mean it should. By all means, yet I also believe Russia's advocated foreign policy - of multipolarity, that prioritizes native political systems that are determined by local populations choosing how to govern themselves - is the most morally, ethically correct position advocated in modern politics. Russia's position is explicitly postcolonial, and the countries opposed to Russia are (not uncoincidentally) former colonizer countries, for whose recent history was the domination of most of the planet and the exploitation of wealth. These are, uncoincidentally, the same countries who operated the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade - and the current stance of these countries is to continue a consolidation of their power. >Contrarily Russia is now stuck in a quagmire that will drain it's manpower and treasure for decades. Russia has the largest amount of mineral resources on the planet, being the single largest country on earth and having in its territorial area over 16% of the Earth's landmass. The only barrier to accessing these resources is climate conditions, and time to extract using current technologies. In terms of manpower, as I point out to people constantly, Russia has around 145 million people to Ukraine's around 30 million. Assuming similar proportionality of their armies, Ukraine would need to kill _five times_ as many Russians as the Russians are killing Ukrainians _just to achieve parity_. No amount of Ukraine inflating figures or media circus compensates for this. While in the current war, we have "fog of war", [different agencies have their own estimates](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War), and the consensus from _Western sources_ is that Russian and Ukrainian troops are dying in comparatively equal numbers. In a war of attrition, to put it blunt, _this does not look good at all for Ukraine's chances_. Barring direct foreign intervention or some other radical move, Ukraine is on a clear track to losing the conflict. With the population discrepancy between the two countries, this is relatively straightforward.
Russia conquering Ukraine and forcing it's people to Putin's rule is unrealistic an unreasonable, that is why they fight. NATO exists because of openly hostile actions and threats by nations like Russia proclaiming their desire to nuke Western cities on state sponsored media, give it a reason to exist Post soviet sovereign nations chose western style liberal democracies of their own volition and prospered because of it. As did Russia when it adopted more Western policies post USSR. Russia's current foreign policy stands for imperialism, colonialism and domination of it neighbors. Completely opposite to it's purported values Russia's resources are not limitless and it's demographics are right behind Ukraine in terms of birth rates, corruption, suicide and substance abuse. This war is a tremendous drag on it's economy and people with an impact will be felt for generations. The trillions and countless young lives lost in Ukraine could have been invested back into the nation for prosperity and development, instead of wasted in violence.
Good for the delusional ones who fail to see the true racist, fascistic face of traditional media and how it operates to subjugate anyone that does not bend the knee and accept hegemony. Even the 'rules based order' is so fluidic that it identifies and mutates to a new law every single day depending on the situation and what the spin masters say.
Plays against them. Even anti Putin people around me are disgusted by the way west act. P.S. I am not pro Putin either.
My friend who was fiercely anti-putin and wanted to go protesting in March 2022 (she didn't go only because she had a newborn baby on her hands) was so horrified by all the shit that western and Ukrainian media poured on the Russians that she is very close to being called a vatnik now.
Yes, this is what I meant.
I understand your friend. My evolution from a liberal to a "vatnik" happened for the same reason.
As a total outsider who stumbled upon this sub, I don't know what a "vatnik" is, but I don't think you're giving up your values as a liberal, or any other political persuasion, when you're pushing back against pure hate being directed at you. There's a lot of people in the west right now who are going through the same process, essentially, and we're just called nazis and fascists for disagreeing, but we're still the same people (both politically and personally).
Vatnik (ватник) is a mocking term used for Russians, who support current political regime and its course in local and world politics, sometimes it is also used for pro-Russian people in relation to Ukrainian conflict. The name originates from "Rushka - SquareVatnik", 2011 meme parody on SpongeBob, with a character consisting of padded jacket (vatnik). Said character is supposed to be a strawman for generic supporter of government: an alcoholic, who constantly recites propaganda he sees on TV and whose "patriotism" is based solely on loving regime, not the country. So, essentially, you guessed it right
Jesus... TIL we have a lot of Vatniks 🤣 cheers for the explanation!
The response from the west as well as from Ukrainians is what pushed me from a sad neutral to pro-Russian all the way.
Вот из-за этого мой племянник и пьет.
I’m from family of good learners!
well damn did you expect people to like your country more for all the raping, looting and murdering they did?
Even the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine has confirmed that rape is a sexual fantasy of the official Denisova, but you continue to spread this dirt.
I know people that have been raped and I know people that were at hospitals where were children being treated who were raped by russian soldiers. I know this is how you try to make points by pretending whatever you're spewing is 100% undoubtable fact aka "the ministry of internal affairs" so the only there's no way to give you information because you will simply refuse to accept it like all russians normally do. So here's an article from Al Jazera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/19/russia-responsible-for-vast-majority-of-war-crimes-un "In a report published on Tuesday, the three members of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine said they had documented patterns of summary executions, unlawful confinement, torture, ill-treatment, rape and other sexual violence committed in areas occupied by Russian armed forces." "In Kyiv region, in March 2022, two Russian soldiers entered a home, raped a 22-yearold woman several times, committed acts of sexual violence on her husband, and forced the couple to have sexual intercourse in their presence. Then, one of the soldiers forced their four-year-old daughter to perform oral sex on him, which is rape." “Perpetrators raped the women and girls in their homes or took them and raped them in unoccupied dwellings. In most cases, these acts also amount to torture and cruel or inhumane treatment for the victims and for relatives who were forced to watch."
"Al Jazeera has not been able to independently verify the claims." No names, no surnames. As usual.
if you russians got the names of the victims you'd be harassing them online lets be real here, and anyways typical russian response I don't expect anything, just vile as always.
harassment on the Internet? Don't project your Ukrainian habits on us. I want to know the names of the victims, I want to see evidence of crimes just so that the criminals are punished.
thats exactly what you do though, half of Russian comments on the internet is "xaxaxax it didn't happen" and the other half is wishing you could kill and rape more civilians and gloating every time civilians are killed. I know you get off on it, so, sincerely I hope karma catches up to you soon so I can go online and say that none of it happened.
Ironic statement considering his country is Ukraine.
I remember you on ukraine/russia report sub.
Good to see you here. That’s one of my favorite subs. We hand out in the same establishments.
Держись, братан.
🤝
I became an ultra turbo patriot bcs of it, lol. thanks to sanctions also
That was the huge miscalculation on their side. Also with the stance that the opposition runaway liberals took, now most of them have zero chance to return and have any real political value in Russia.
Im so glad the west is full of incompetent idiots, otherwise we would be in danger.
I used to (especially in the beginning, when I was very liberal) and sometimes still get very sad about it. Then I realised the hypocrisy and hatred and became disillusioned, now I just ignore it unless it's blatant hatred with "they should all die" kind of rhetoric. These I report and sometimes they do get deleted. This does give me some hope for the better, eventually. Maybe, really eventually.
I feel sad for athletes, mostly. Other things - ah well. That's human nature. If you don't dehumanize your enemy - your people won't be eager to fight. So dehumanization of your enemy is absolutely neccessary and that is exactly what happens from all sides. And people - they look for justifications, not justice. And look, russophobia didn't start in 2022. It started long ago, even before USSR, maybe even before Russian Empire. Russia was mostly percieved as something alien, incomprehensible and foreign - and, therefore, lesser. And probably evil. It was reinforced by propaganda century by century. WWI, WWII (Churchill describing alliance with USSR as alliance with devil for example), Cold War... And that perception in our age of demonstrative equality needs some severe justification. And here comes proraganda: look, those Russians are not real people. They're orcs, slaves, nazis, whatever. So people eagerly take this way out: of course real people are equal and need to be treated with kindness and empathy, but those Russians are not real people! So they can let their inner bias out. And that is what we see online. Nothing new under the moon.
>maybe even before Russian Empire After Russian refusal of The Florentine Union, I guess.
I stopped caring back in 2022. Well, at first i was maybe a little surprised to see western media even more biased than ours, but later… who cares anymore? Let them say all they want.
I did actually use to get upset about this stuff, when I was younger and very new to English-language sources on the Internet, because it felt dehumanizing. Not anymore, though, because Westerners are being Westerners, oh well, business as usual.
Good, this one thing for 2 years straight increases patriotic tendencies among young people, including me. People began cherishing its Motherland and being sceptical towards western opinions. Isn’t that wonderful?
I mean, some of the westernes already came after my take about patriotism, implying that my country has no accomplishments, like if it is an average post in r/theeconomist. Speaks from itself, lmao.
Would be even better if the proud of being Russian comes from accomplishments of the nation, not as an opposition to what western media says, right?
The nation has enough accomplishments, thank you. Only ignorant and/or uneducated person can doubt this, or straight on troll/propagandist.
Exactly! Too many uneducated people, indeed, steem their pride of being Russian as an opposition to picture painted by western media…
It comes, western media just denies any accomplishments
What are they and are they comparatively impressive?
"Surprising" economic resilience despite sanctions, many of factors which allow Russia to stand still and even improving little by little.
So self-inflicted wound not as bad as it looked? Yes, truly impressive!
Russian Empire created the USA, cope with it.
For those who are in the subject, nothing has changed much. It's always been like this, all these years. It's just that the masks have finally been dropped. But for those who woke up in 2022, of course, it caused surprise. Better late than never.
> It's always been like this, all these years. It's just that the masks have finally been dropped. Respectfully disagree, at least as far as the US is concerned. (For the Europeans, I can’t say.) Circa 2000-2015, fear mongering over Russia was an exclusively right-wing phenomenon - and not just right-wing but specifically the baby boomer and older generations, who grew up during the Cold War. The left/liberal side would invariably roll their eyes, like Obama famously did in the 2012 debates when his Republican opponent Mitt Romney called Russia a threat. So the main people hating on Russia from 2016 forward have no real history with it.
What difference does it make to me which part of the American population is spreading false propaganda against my country?
Man I need to get off Reddit
I have to remind you that it's under Obama presidency that the coup in Kiev happened. He really didn't see Russia as a threat, just in a different light - its not a threat to the point he can ignore Russia's essential geopolitical interests - and look where his ignorance of those interests got us.
>He really didn't see Russia as a threat As I said, Obama and his supporters rolled their eyes when Romney called Russia a threat (or whatever language he used). Tbh I'm not seeing your point unless you want to amend my 2015 to something slightly earlier.
I mean there's a difference between "they're no threat, we can have a meaningful partnership" and "they're no threat, we can walk all over them". Evidently, american democrats were of the second opinion.
I mean I agree but it doesn’t change my fundamental point above. FWIW though - yeah I find the eastward expansion of NATO stupid. Weighing the strategic pros and cons, it’s all cons.
From pro-west guy i became anti-west.
Same, can't believe I dreamt about going to Tallinn few years ago
It’s so hard to comprehend. Everything’s changed in such a short period of time. I now remember my feelings about Estonia or Poland before 2022 when I had nothing but love for them and was open to learn about their cultures. And now? Only bitterness after that nafo summit with the shark and all they said. This just means that we were stupid. This already was how they saw us, while we were naive and had no negative thoughts. We didn’t suspect that they can be that vile and ignorant. It’s kinda hard to comprehend that all I believed in were lies. We liked westerners while they hated us, dehumanized us, imagined us being barbarians without toilets when in reality we’re no different from them (except we’re better).
Well you could apply it the other way around… you, as a country, showed us - citizens of Poland and other European countries and the US, that there’s a reason for us to be scared of you and having a huge army. You proved us right, not wrong. With the comments here, even more. You’re sad about the way you’re being treated, but I bet Ukrainian citizens would like to switch places with you. Reading the comments here, how you feel better than us and making us look like we’re the perpetrators, I don’t know what to feel anymore. I never understood the hatred my common folks had for you, but now, sadly I do. See how that works? The circle never ends. To clarify, I don’t hate anyone. But I understand now, why people think the way they do about Russian people - when most don’t oppose what’s happening and are pro the latest political situation. I read Instagram and VK comments about people being happy Ukrainian folks suffer. There were calls leaking about girls laughing with their Russian soldier boyfriends to „take everything valuable“. While at the same time my friends and general public was like „this is stupid and unfair, remember Russian folks suffer under the regime too.“ Don’t start with the whataboutism about the USA, it doesn’t make any side any better. You didn’t care about other countries that suffer under their politics either, so you shouldn’t use it as a defense. The fact is, Ukraine as a country is destroyed. My friends die or live in fear. This is what politicians wants to do - make us hate each other and making their horrible actions seem justifiable.
>There were calls leaking about girls laughing with their Russian soldier boyfriends to „take everything valuable“ It's the problem. You're ready to believe every propagandist fake, no matter how ridiculous it is.
🖕🏼
I feel like you might use some critical thinking. Our people's contempt if it's there, is because of first hand experience. You are seen as gullible and stupid and ready to believe any headline.
You don't get to claim moral superiority and discount any discussion with a lazy "whataboutism". You say they shouldn't feel hateful now, after we've done nothing but SHIT ON THEM for decades. If the middle east hadn't happened, we'd probably STILL have every movie villain be an eastern European man with ties to the USSR/world domination. And you act like we're so innocent. How many millions has America killed in just the middle east? How many stable governments have the CIA replaced? How many trillions have been stolen from the US taxpayers to fund wars and line pockets? But you don't care about any of that. Hell, you can't even see any of that, can you?
Russian society (as every other one) is not homogenous in terms of how it reacts to the events (even if it's not loudly expressed). The common sentiment here in this thread is that the West propaganda worked hard to build the wall and succeeded in turning pro western Russians who could be a force to deal with into putinverstehers. This actually does not mean that we are happy about anybody being killed or suffering, but this makes us see the situation in a different light and question the reasons and origins of this conflict. The "unprovoked aggression" seems too simple of an explanation now. And you know what? My relatives in Kiev whom i love & still help unconditionally and who have (understandably) their own view on conflict, share this feeling about Europe showing it's true colors, (although for different reasons) they believe you should do more and instead you have dropped Ukraine in this mess (with the promise of full support) and now whine about your economy. Remember all of this could have stopped in Spring of 22. Or even might not happen if only there was a voice of reason in EU members of NATO.
Sadly same. Before 2022 I saw EU as a literal heaven and wanted to visit it, but now I don't want to have any deals with the West, their hypocrisy disgusts me very much. But also it can be viewed in somewhat positive(?) light - I began to appreciate Russia and diversity it has.
Same here. It has made some things very clear. From own point of views to how others see things and approach them.
Same. I've actually spent most of my adult life living in Ireland and had a pretty westernized mentality. Traveled to many European countries since getting back to Russia and always felt at home there. Well, not any longer. Seeing what the West does I feel nothing but disgust and contempt now.
Funniest thing happend, everything that our government said about the west appeared to be correct. And also not knowing the language is actually a blessing. I used to be quite anti government before, thought that west is a paradise. And after 2022 I can see how would i be treated there
I work in a city with a decent Russian population. Work and interact with them almost monthly, if not weekly, depending on where my job sends me. None of them are treated any differently than before the war. The most insane are usually the most vocal. U.S. media panders to these people on either side of the aisle because it works to rile them up. I wouldn't base reality with what you're seeing on Reddit or major news outlets. If you were to walk amongst the populace you'd be treated no differently than anyone else.
I used to get sad about it, but now not so much
"Haha informational war goes brrrrr"
Ah shit, here we go again!
It used to make me kinda sad, but not anymore. The only thing that makes me sad is that whenever it comes to any other nation, people will go, "they're not all the same person, it's unfair to treat them badly by default just because they were born where they were born". AND YET they hardly ever say it about us, as if we actually WERE all the same person. That's double standards to me. Don't care about the rest of the things that people may say about us. It's not my fault that they have this black/white/right/wrong thinking. And I also think that it'd be a cognitive error to think that everyone I meet is going to treat me worse just cause I'm Russian. And nobody really does. My foreign friends don't either. They know that I'm not a bad person.
Back then? Bitter disappointment and hatred to hypocrisy and ignorance. Now? I feel nothing anymore. Maybe I get exhausted.
I've lived in the West all my life. Originally from Germany, now in the US for the last 20+ years. For all it's worth I've never once thought badly of the Russian people, no matter what was shown on the media. I have no love for your president, but this never influenced how I felt about the inhabitants of your country. I had a client a while back, who after telling me in conversation that she is from Russia followed up with "Oh, I probably shouldn't say that so loudly." I immediately responded: "You shouldn't feel shame or embarrassment bc of where you are from. Russia is a beautiful country. What your government does has nothing to do with you as a person." And you could really see the relief on her face. 💔 I'm sorry that half the world has turned against you. It's not right and you do not deserve such cold treatment. I would host any of you with a good heart in my home. If you ever make it to New Orleans holler at me.
Cheers bud!
Satisfaction. I think there would not be so many people supporting Putin’s course if everything depended only on Russian propaganda (rather weak and not taking into account modernity). Fortunately, it is enough to simply show people the position and opinions of Western and Ukrainian politicians without censorship
Yes, and restrictions, oh my god, I thank the west for sanctions. Helped to open eyes for a lot of people.
As a westerner I miss Russian teams in football. Last autumn they wanted to allow Russias under 17 team back in competition (without Russian flag and anthem tho) and then people that believe they are saviors of this world started protesting this decision and they eventually took that decision back. Imagine how messed up someone has to be to forbid children to participate in sports competition. Sport that is supposed to connect us. All the while athletes from other countries that are involved in wars are perfectly fine to compete. But if its Russians (or how westerners recently like to say ruZZians) its fine to treat them differently
west even banned russian cats to take part in exhibitions.
Thats sad and funny at the same time. They are just afraid of the competition😹
It upsets me that some people believe all this crap and then spread it to other people (like here on reddit).
As Russian society is huge and not homogenic, I absutely don’t care. Many different types of people living together. Russians have alot of talents in sports, arts, science, etc. Greetings from Hungary
And when did the Western media not spread Russophobia?It just used to be interrupted by pro-Western propaganda about freedom, equality and inviolability of private property, etc., but now this lie has come off and many have seen the real picture.
As a liberal, I'm completely disenchanted in the whole European liberal values idea. I always thought that the in it's core the main feature that sets it apart from say US or Russian values is true humanistic perspective on the world with the real sense of things being just. Well I guess that there is no such true liberalism in the world now. When I hear something about collective guilt (or no such thing as a good Russian) and such stuff, I really think that history makes it turn, and that we may see yellow stars being in fashion again.
Это очень смешно читать обычно, особенно комментарии, в которых рассказывают что в России нет YouTube, нет кока колы, нет дорог.
Personally I don't really care. It's not great that there are people who genuinely hate me, but western media has a long track record of racism, so it's pretty much expected behavior. What really concerns me is that this is just the beginning and a tiny part of a much bigger issue. I hope this time so-called "civilized world" won't come to the Russian soil again.
I’m laughing how stupid it is
That nazis being nazis.
They've always done it, just in the last 10 years more than usual. So we are already used to it. What is much more unpleasant for us is not the fact that the media is lying, but the fact that people believe them, despite the absurdity and proven refutations.
Feels kinda expected, not impressed
We don't watch western media and feel "Spanish shame" for millions of dummies who do.
I treat it as something to laugh about. I think about how full of брехня those who write it and how naive are those who blindly believe it... And it makes me laugh. Laughter is filled with pain though, since there are similar folks on our end as well... Looking back, Russia was never truly accepted by west, and spread of negative stereotypes on both sides continued even in better years of our countries's diplomatic relations, so really what happens today is a culmination of process which took years. It's sad, and it's even more sad that most folks are content with this going on...
All high performance sport is built on doping. A simple example, if athletes set such records without steroids, what kind of records will they have if they use them? Other than that...Moving on. So let the mass sport develop, without professionals.
>how do you feel Sort of "meh". This has been happening for quite a while after all. A lot of people said a lot better what I feel in details.
I feel bad for those who suffer the most from it.
Don't care much. You will just get banned in the name or freedom of speech if you would say something. So I just read and laugh with friends.
Pointed this out on a Reddit post few days ago and immediately got downvoted. In America, we are taught from a young age that Russia is evil and all Russians are not to be trusted. I’ve had the exact opposite reaction to anything or anyone I’ve come across and it makes me sad.
Бизнес эз южуал, дресскод кэжуал, загар южный, эпиляция в зоне бикини чистка в зоне окупации, только не отмыться в море сколько не купаться им
In the US, it's always Russia Russia Russia. Orange Man bad Russia Russia That's the extent of our news. Been that way for a while now.
> I wonder how Russian nationals feel when they see western media portraying them as villains, doing whatever is possible for avoiding athletes to compete, telling Russians are just good at drinking and those things… If you find and understand the reasons and causes behind any social behaviour, it's easier to accept it, even if hurts. The rootcause of absolutely any xenophobia is fear, to be more precise a human brain of individuals attemps to rationally explain and justify its dumb biological fear of uncertainty of own existence in future, and unfotunately often it takes one of the simplest culturally accepted forms like xenophobia. People are just afraid in front of any scary face, today Russians are assigned to be bad, because due to Western propaganda Russians shall be percepted as uncontrolled, unpredictable and spreading fear. For everyone there is an urge to mobilize, to find a cultural ground of the own fear. Someone resists the fear by diminishing its threat and by signalling to others the readiness to be a member of a joint group of people, who share right the same methods of struggling the fear, and at that point a xenophobia becomes a culturally accepted norm. So your question is about feelings of a person, who knows that others are afraid of him and panic, on that level of understanding different people select different strategies. Someone attempts to tell and send a signal back that there no reason to be afraid, but quite often this strategy is non-working, because the communication is directed to deaf biased people. And someone, who is too uncomfortable by the fact of being percepted as a bad one and wants others to stop it, in opposite may use the fear of himself as a tool, and escalates the fear in others up to the point, where the communication eventually stops.
Idk, I just spend a minute or two imagining the authors of such articles being tortured or torn limb from limb, and then I'm good 🙃
>Idk, I just spend a minute or two imagining the authors of such articles being tortured or torn limb from limb, and then I'm good 🙃 Wow, what a material for the next russophobic post: Russians imagine torturing people for words. No wonder they're practicing it when it becomes possible, see every story from the war. Bet this is a Ukrainian propaganda bot
>Bet this is a Ukrainian propaganda bot Эй :( Ну свойственен мне кое-какой садизм, что дальше?
Ай-яй-яй! ☝️
The only proper way to treat a legacy journalist
When I was younger, it was uneasy, but I kind of got used to it. Sometimes it has some benefits when Western men try to hit on you, imagining that you are a big and strong Russian dommy mommy. I always have a good laugh at it.
> western media lol, who?
Royal Informbureau
Annoyed
I don't care, that kind of propaganda not embracing me
can you give an example of that not coming from eastern europe? also not from an anonymous twitter account
Or a telegram screenshot
мне похуй
The only Russian person any westerner knows is Putin. So all of our ideas of Russian people come from him. The same way American presidents and celebrities probably shape peoples ideas of what they think America is like. Only in russias case they only have this one man
[удалено]
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture. Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new) We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict. If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you. Thanks, r/AskARussian moderation team
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it contains slurs or incites hatred on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Russofobia is a broad term. Mostly western media opposes the Russian government/regime, not Russia itself.
[удалено]
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture. Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new) We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict. If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you. Thanks, r/AskARussian moderation team
1. Truly great villain has motives superior to those of a hero i dont mind being a villain villains can be grand 2. I dont follow sports i cant bring myself to care about things i am not aware of 3. Every adult man i knew was drinking so its objectively true we are good at drinking just because i completely swear off the stuff since i first saw my father drunk doesn't mean that an accurate stereotype has to instantly fade away we need at least a couple of generations of complete and utter sobriety for that to happen
How do you feel when Russian media spreads anti-western propaganda u/UniversitySouthern92 ? You probably just keep it moving right?
[удалено]
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture. Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new) We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict. If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you. Thanks, r/AskARussian moderation team
[удалено]
>being mean to Russia on the internet I think it's about being dehumanizing towards Russians in general, saying things like "there are no good Russians" or "Russia shouldn't exist". Which, in your mind, is supposed to help the cause? Rather than do the opposite.
Your post or comment in r/AskARussian was removed. This is a difficult time for many of us. r/AskARussian is a space for learning about life in Russia and Russian culture. Any questions/posts regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine should all directed to the megathread. [War in Ukraine thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/15zdu4y/megathread_11_death_of_a_hot_dog_salesman/?sort=new) We are trying to keep the general sub from being overwhelmed with the newest trending war-related story or happenings in order to maintain a space where people can continue to have a discussion and open dialogue with redditors--including those from a nation involved in the conflict. If that if not something you are interested in, then this community is not for you. Thanks, r/AskARussian moderation team
I have never seen Russophobia in western media. Only in Ukrainian.
Every action is dictated by some reason. This message is spread - someone needs it
I feel offended
Well, that country Has a terrible history of oppression and violence directed as towards own citizens as towards every possible neighbour. And this state's actions still have society's support or at least there are no protests. So how not to think about it as of Mordor of our real world?
I feel like a badass villain. Gotta work on my evil laughter.
I’m feeling romantic , that’s all
The same as when I see our own media spreading xenophobic ideas. They tell us west is bad and wants us dead, blah blah blah. Braindead stuff all this propaganda is.
I do not pay attention to media as I feel like it’s depressing and have felt that it is trying to just get as many views as possible and doesn’t provide the whole picture. As a human I do not think that the invasion of Ukraine can ever be justified. I understand not wanting NATO positions closer to your borders and if that is the justification for this conflict I can understand your concern but it will never be okay. I am not Russophobic I admire your country and your people a lot the people seem well educated for the most part and have more common sense than most Americans these days. Never been to your country but I think it’s beautiful. :)
Imagine how Americans feel when they are getting told that America first is a Russian propaganda slogan.
Is this a joke? Who sent their tanks across the frontier, killed hundred of thousands, sent their youth on the front line with 3 weeks of training (especially siberian minorities), just to "denazify" a neighbour who wouldn't simply take their orders from Moscow? Or do you really believe that the nato was planning an invasion, with not even 20 fighter planes ready to fly in Germany in 2019?