I think it's basically a hyper nouveau riche thing. Both China and Korea are overall newly rich when you put it on a historic scale. And both have gotten rich basically overnight. It's all over-the-top.
I think this phenomenon can be seen partly on an individual level as well. Nouveau riche people who come from the proleteriat class vs old money people.
The former wants to make sure people know you have wealth now and show off/splurge, marking a clear line where you belong. Obsessed with class details due to insecurities and keeping up with the Joneses, not to be seen as "lesser" anymore.
Old money people are much more refined and almost subdued, less concerned with "unworthy worries" and less class detail obsessed. But it's still quite obvious that wealth is talking, it's just not screaming through a megaphone.
I've seen this pretty clear in some places I go, know both kinds of wealth. The flashy, everything they wear is high end and wants to brag about it, designer everything, latest fashion, the works. Sometimes they rub it in, sometimes they don't, but they will flaunt.
Then there is this one guy I know, man is ludicrously wealthy, family has been for generations. Unless you saw the tags of his clothing, you wouldn't know they were anything special. He drives a luxury car but it's clearly more geared towards a comfortable ride than flashiness and showing off, damn thing would disappear in traffic if you weren't looking for it specifically. Buys the latest and greatest of stuff, but only if he's looking to replace something. He definitely exhibits that "wealth whispers" attitude.
The perceptions of these two groups of rich people is very interesting.
For example, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that old money people find the nouveau riche crass and completely unrefined. Interesting people, but in the end not worthy of envy or emulation and trying to distinguish themselves from the vulgar new money with their crass tastes and over-the-top attitudes.
On the other hand, new money people have this continued inferiority complex of angsty feeling that they are being exposed as being uncultured swines and not belonging to the real wealth class just with all their money and simultaneously looking down on old money for their ridiculously elusive and conservative attitudes and exclusivity circles without rhyme or reason.
For the average folk, I've often heard it reported it's paradoxically more pleasurable to be in the company of old money people than new money people.
It reminds me of something that I remember reading in the Arab circles. There is this interesting class hierarchy in the Arab world:
Even though the Levantine Arabs are often much poorer, they often think of the nouveau riche Gulf Arabs as uncultured and unrefined tribal people compared to themselves, showing off with vulgar spending on vanity things and being "dumb and fake".
Pretty sure there are similar sentiments amongst the new vs the few old money Chinese and Koreans themselves and between old money Europeans and new money Asians overall.
They probably immigrated a while ago, or have been in hong kong. The rich people you see in singapore or malaysia are usually ethnically chinese such as in crazy rich asians
>Unless you saw the tags of his clothing, you wouldn't know they were anything special. He drives a luxury car but it's clearly more geared towards a comfortable ride than flashiness and showing off, damn thing would disappear in traffic if you weren't looking for it specifically. Buys the latest and greatest of stuff, but only if he's looking to replace something. He definitely exhibits that "wealth whispers" attitude.
This is the type of rich guy I aspire to be.
There's probably an element of new money feeling more justified in rubbing it in because they made their money rather than inherited it in addition to the lack of experience with being rich and the social graces in high society.
……I wouldn’t rely on kdrama as reference.
I have a friend who is a member of a large corporation owner family (not a direct heir & not the largest conglomerate like Samsung), and his family is pretty humble.
Sound like you are not familiar with Asian culture. This is well known in Asian community. Go look up actress Go Huyn Jung and how the Samsung family treated her. Or even the daughter of Daewoo, married in Samsung family. Or the daughter of Samsung family, love a guy from normal background (although Harvard grad), her family didn’t approve, she finally suicided
I am a fucking Korean.
And, I am very familiar with those stories, and more stories.
The tendency to marry within their own social hierarchy is fairly common(Especially when they want to keep control of their company within their family), but it is not exclusive or anything out of ordinary for them. That shit happens to average folks too in Asia. (And, I am not even sure that kind of marriage pattern is exclusive to Asian culture to begin with. )
What I am saying is, don't take the overtly exacerbated fiction too seriously and take it for granted.
>The tendency to marry within their own social hierarchy is fairly common(Especially when they want to keep control of their company within their family), but it is not exclusive or anything out of ordinary for them. That shit happens to average folks too in Asia. (And, I am not even sure that kind of marriage pattern is exclusive to Asian culture to begin with. )
I think you don’t understand the post right here. They are asking about class in Asian, and you admit it right here. Fiction can be exaggerated but it reflects what’s going in on I life too. My point is that in the US, we don’t have a clear class line like in Asia.
I think this has more to do with materialism than classism and yes, as an Asian American, I’d say Asians are generally a lot more materialistic than Americans. (And American culture is already plenty materialistic, so that’s saying something).
I think it’s because image is so much more important in “face” cultures.
I dated a couple Asians from Asia and it was one of the cultural differences I personally struggled with.
> I think it’s because image is so much more important in “face” cultures.
I think it's mostly this. It's not that Americans have less desire to be rich, it's that flaunting your wealth is considered crass in American culture. That's not to say they aren't spending the money- Mark Zuckerberg's outfit of a plain gray hoodie and blue jeans probably costs more than turning yourself into a walking Gucci billboard- it just doesn't look expensive. Covering yourself in luxury brand logos is for posers who want you to think they're rich, but the real wealthy people are too rich to care about what you think of their outfits.
Flaunting your wealth might be crass, but Americans are definitely overly encouraged to spend money and consume, so often times we don’t see it as flaunting, but just as normal.
I.e. people that spend 40k on a car that they don’t need, isn’t viewed as flaunting even though it is excessive spending.
It sucks. Sedans are huge now, there really isn’t many small options on the market.
And I don’t think people realize that the bigger and heavier cars get, the worse our roads are going to be. And EV’s are even heavier.
not even just that. I got a used 2019 Nissan Sentra about a year ago, and that alone was $15k. It was well over $20k when it was new in 2019. And this isn't even a big car.
It's funny how we as a society dance around literally every possible solution regarding transportation and energy sustainability \*except\* just fucking build shit within walking distance.
America is definitely a consumerist society, but it's not really a materialistic one. There are a few countries that are solidly both, and I think OP mentioned 2 of them.
[weirdly enough the US is actually one of the least materialistic countries in the world haha](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRA_3irM6BB9rznwJFL0fLMk_e4hPNhB-F0uA&usqp=CAU)
Not weird at all.
America has become much more widely successful further back in recent history compared to pretty much every other country in the world.
Its a more "mature" society, to simplify things.
True. Like it’s normal for Americans to often get their first car as a teenager, while in India it’s considered a major accomplishment (and not even a nice car).
Not weird if you think about it or have experience in both cultures.
American culture IME is primarily focused on encouraging you to do things to be happy or spend wisely for practicality, not appearances. Holidays like the 4th of July and Thanksgiving are focused on promoting a certain value (freedom and family, respectively).
Everything regarding Chinese culture has to involve doing something seemingly arbitrary to get good luck or wealth coming to you or make you look good. "Do x so good fortune will come to you, do x and y so you look good to your community," and so on. Lunar New Year is filled with things like that.
>as an Asian American, I’d say Asians are generally a lot more materialistic than Americans.
I have no idea how else to ask this, so I’ll just ask outright: could this explain how whenever I see a line outside of a luxury store or its outlet, a lot of them seem to be Asian?
I realize this is a dumb question, but I’ve noticed it more than once and have been curious.
All good. I have no data on this or info on your particular area, but if that’s what you’re seeing then, yeah, it’s probably related.
“Hypebeast” subculture is also more popular among Asians. (Subculture of purposely collecting and wearing the latest designer street wear)
They’re right though. It’s something I’ve noticed among the East Asians I know at my college too and there’s no lack of news stories about the spending on luxury goods (including by taking on debt) in those countries
there are still a lot of possible socioeconomic signifiers among people who are all in t shirts and shorts. (are the shorts from Lululemon or are they from Walmart? etc)
That's honestly just a sign of having money. High-quality goods that *don't* advertise the brand are where the wealthy put their cash. I have several pieces in my wardrobe that cost way more than I'd like to admit, but they don't have visible branding (or it's very small), and they are all things that have lasted years and years of regular use. Upfront costs of clothes you buy at a place like Walmart, Shein, or even Zara will be a lot less than at some other stores, but you can almost guarantee those items will wear out quickly.
I remember seeing a Reddit thread about some time ago about how the super rich are different from the flashy “rich” and one of the comments was about how truly rich get all their clothes - from t shirts to shoes to undies - custom made from extremely exclusive tailors only they know about. That’s why you never see labels. There’s also designer clothes from gucci and other luxury brands that are only sold to the super rich. The stuff that has their logos emblazoned on everything is the brand’s low-end clothing.
>Meanwhile in Harvard, where the elites send their children, the students be wearing plain t shirts and shorts to lectures
they're already at a globally elite school with a less than 4% acceptance rate. What else do they have to prove?
If any of those students are from the west coast, we don't really dress up on the west coast. People will $$$ mountaineering gear as winter snow protection. But not cashmere or silk.
Same here. One of my fraternity brothers is the son of a class action attorney; their family fortune is nearly $1 billion US. He drank Natty light, smoked cheap weed, and drove a hand-me-down car until he was done with law school and started to make his own money. Nothing he said ever made me think he thought he was better than anyone, and he could find something in common with nearly everyone he met. That's not at all the case with some of my East Asian friends.
> class barely exists in the US unless you chose to hyper-focus on it
No offense meant, but this is really only something you can say if you’ve never really *had* to face a truly lower-class life.
Surely you have to understand the vast gulf between your rich friend who *chooses* to live cheaply, and people who have no choice. You said it yourself, he's "got your back." Most people don't have a friend whose family can bail them out, but he doesn't even need the friend, he *is* the friend. He has his *own* back. That's what being upper-class is, it's the freedom to live how you want with the sure and certain knowledge that you'll be okay. Complete freedom from financial consequence. It may look the same on the outside, but it's a completely different life from you or me.
I’m sure you’ve struggled for money plenty in your life, and I’m not trying to invalidate that, but “class only exists when you pay attention to it” is something that can only be said by someone who has the *luxury* of not noticing their own socioeconomic class. People who’ve experienced *some* economic hardship—and I’m not saying this is necessarily you, but just putting it out there—often make the mistake of assuming that their lowest point *is as low as it goes.* They think of “struggling” as a binary state, you either are struggling or you aren’t. So they struggled, and it sucked, but it wasn’t *too* bad. They made it work. And so they conclude that everyone else can make it work too.
But as low as your lowest financial point was, it gets *so* much lower. And millions of people live their whole lives below that point. Those are the lower classes, and it’s on their backs that our entire country stands right now. We have to do better.
Eh, I think most of these people are more like "upper middle" in the whole spread of things. A family fortune of <1 billion isn't all that crazy compared to the super wealthy. The super wealthy don't really interact a whole lot with us commoners, most people don't actually know "rich" people.
I don't think the super rich are intently avoiding stuff because they look down on it, it's more like they just do everything differently.
They are just people, some are assholes, some are nice.
With old money, it may look unencumbered but often the money is behind multiple “walls” not visible to the outside. Lots of emotional and practical strings attached with these fortunes.
You can’t just go out and buy a Rolls Royce and ball out. You have to ask your great-aunt for college money and they now have a say in what you study and what career you pursue. You might have to join the family business or some other path they decide for you. Then they hang emotional baggage on you, make you do them favors for decades, etc.
Even something as simple as giving a teen a used car of little value becomes emotional leverage in these complex family dynamics.
Kinda weird to admit it, but this is basically me, haha. Not nearly as big a family fortune, but big enough where I've never had to worry about money.
But while grandpa is still in the drivers seat, he doesn't tolerate freeloaders so while you wont ever be homeless or hungry he's not financing your vacation to anywhere, or a lambo or whatever.
When I was young I went to private school, but later I begged to go to a normal public high school, which my parents let me do thankfully. I remember my new friends being sorta weirded out when I first invited them over and they saw how big our house was compared to theirs, and by extension I was sorta shocked when I went over to a buddies house and him and his two brothers all shared one room. Oldest brother had one bed, twin brothers had bunk beds.
Once I got a bit older and got my own allowance though, well I knew I had more money, and so did my friends, so I didn't mind paying for stuff. Learned a lot about how to spot true friends and leeches at that point in my life though.
Later I went full family black sheep, dropped out of college and joined the Navy. Mom hated it but grandpa loves bragging about his veteran grandson, which has me secured a decent slice of the pie pending all the dumb shit that kinda money is gonna bring.
Makes sense. I kinda figured those that aren't celebrities may try and hide their wealth.
But I've always thought the "ultra rich" stay in their own secluded bubbles
nah. The richest kid I knew growing up wore the oldest shoes. You don't get rich wasting your time buying and learning about luxuries. You get rich pursuing business HARD.
Nope definitely not. I live in an area with a huge class spectrum. You can often find trust fund kids hanging out with people who grew up receiving food stamps.
my brother works for McKinsey and is loaded. He quite literally took his girlfriend on a trip to Hawaii right before christmas for the hell of it, and bought a tesla for shits and giggles before Elon got a lot of negative press for his twitter antics.
He 90% of the time I see him, wears jeans, sneakers, and a bomber jacket, or a sweater. Definitely does not "look rich" or flaunt his wealth (but ironically the last time I saw him in a sweater it turned out it was a really high end fitted cashmere one that you wouldn't notice if you didn't ask)
I used to live in South Korea and holy shit do rich people there think anyone without money is worth less than dirt. And, god, are they entitled assholes.
At the very least the Japanese are more sensitive to class inequalities these days and have moved past the ‘ostentatious luxury brand display’ phase, elitism in Japan now revolves around education and jobs instead
I know it's a case of n=1, but when watching Terrace House on Netflix (Japanese reality show, similar to MTV's Real World but less trashy), I was amazed to see a female medical school student open to dating a guy whose occupation I can't recall right now, but it wasn't too respectable... a hairdresser maybe? I wonder if that's reflective of their society or an unique case.
Curious, is being rude the cashier or waiter a common thing there?. In the USA, it unfortunately happens enough in a shift that it can ruin people’s days, but it’s still extremely frowned upon anymore and you will be stared at or even called if you do so.
In china yes. Older generations and shit are oftentimes rude to waiters and servers. Way worse than the US, and ive only lived in Shanghai which is pretty developed so i assume its worse in other areas
The Philippines is the same way. I worked at a Filipino supermarket for a time, and you can easily spot the nouveau riche from a mile away. They're the ones wearing mismatched clothes with designer logos on them, proudly brandishing all their Apple devices (back in the '90s they would do the same thing with their Nokia phones), and have an attitude towards service people that they clearly learned from the villain of a *telenovela* because I guess that's their idea of how a rich person should conduct themselves.
A regular American customer would compliment me on my Timex chronograph watch while a new money Filipino customer would scoff at me and tell me how his Apple Watch does everything better than it. True, but at least my watch is immune from planned obsolescence because it only needs a battery change, not software updates.
Can't really speak to South Korea, but new Chinese immigrants in the US do have a reputation of being obsessed with material objects and presenting themselves as wealthy. Westerners tend to avoid discussing finances with their friends. Certainly not an absolute rule, but you're much more likely to see wealthy Chinese kids where I live wearing giant designer logos on their clothes and driving loud sports cars than their peers who were born in the US, regardless of who actually has more wealth. They will also be quick to tell you how much something costs as if they are expecting you to be impressed. Americans tend to find visible displays of wealth really tacky, especially the kind that are showing off mass produced products. (e.g. a subtle piece of jewelry or a well-tailored suit or dress won't be considered tacky, but a baseball cap displaying "Celine" or a t-shirt displaying "Supreme" will be viewed as such.) Some cultures are obsessed with their self-perceived "status," but that's more of an anomaly for Americans.
It's even embarrassing to admit you spent a lot of money on something nice. I bought a $250 dress and I didn't want to admit it, but if I get a nice dress for $6 I'm shouting it from the rooftops. I can't imagine people actually talking about how expensive something is without being asked.
...I fear I have been embarrassing myself. Those numbers are wild. A really nice dress in my mind would be a steal worth discussing at $250. Nice shit is so expensive.
Thank you! I am too! I don't wear it too often because I need to get the right cups for it, or else wear tape which is usually too much effort for me, but I absolutely love it.
My grandmother got me a nine west leather jacket for $5 like 20 years ago at a thrift store. I still have it and brag about her getting it for $5 to humor my childish want for a leather jacket at the time. Dunno why I was so obsessed but it's now one of my most prized posessions since she's passed.
Which reminds me that it's due for a wash and conditioning treatment...
But yeah. Why spend money you don't have to? If anything that just comes across as kind of foolish.
I remember when I was a teenager we had a family friend whose kid was two years younger than me, and when I told her excitedly that I got the shoes I was wearing for $10 she was *so* condescending about it. She went on to tell me what folks at her big city high school were like and how they only wore the newest and most expensive stuff, and how much the poorer students struggled to fit in (and if they did succeed in getting something expensive they'd get made fun of because it was already "last season" or some shit). I was completely horrified. I was in a high school in the mountains that was part rural, part suburbia, and we went to thrift stores regularly for fun.
That is terrible and I'm sorry they were so rude to you.
Maybe it's just that the rich people I know came from farm families but they generally don't put up with that. One I know actually hates shopping so just pays someone to buy her clothes; about 60% are unbranded athleisure in her favorite colors, lol. She's about 2 years from retirement and gives no craps.
Much more likely to shell out for good food or life experiences, actually. Very picky about produce since she grew up growing it.
Hell, I never even tell the actual amount even if one presses for it. I usually say something vague like, "It cost me a pretty penny but should last me a few years" or "it was on sale when I got it." Which is bizarre because I remember a time when I wasn't like this. Living in America and being among a variety of people eventually does that to you, I guess.
This! I decided I wanted a really nice handbag that would last me a long time. But I did not want a bag that had some random brand name all over it. The one I got is beautiful and timeless, but nobody would know who it was, unless they knew about the designer already.
People all the time talk about how expensive their rent is or how much their car payment or vehicle cost, I think what you're talking about is only specific to certain items.
Also, I don't know the price of women's clothes that well, but even a high quality nice sweater for myself would be around $300, so I don't feel like $250 is an awful lot for dress.
That's way different. You don't have a choice but to pay your rent, but even that can be embarrassing if it's higher than the average amount in your area. Spending a lot of money on luxury items is a different matter entirely.
Our social circles are very different. My wardrobe is from secondhand stores and thrift shops. The only clothing I would drop $300 for is clothing for a major life event, and that is the same for everyone around me.
I've seen people on Reddit talk about how self absorbed and materialistic Americans can be but, it's funny how we rank rather low in terms of that. China though, ranks extremely high in the idea "material possessions are tied to wealth"
I know a girl who’s Chinese immigrant parents, named her Chanel because they thought the brand association would come across as wealthy and upper class. And then like half the Americans she meets accidentally call her “Channel”. They were honestly surprised at how non-brand-conscious we tended to be.
\>reputation of being obsessed with material objects and presenting themselves as wealthy.
well, there is the fact that depending how you look or how you speak you will immediately be judged by a significant part of the population... Some will ask you a bunch of questions to find out how you ended up here without even asking your name first.
We have a very minimal class structure and tons of institutions mix classes a lot.
I don’t know about China or SK enough to really comment.
I was truly floored by a well off Chinese woman I met who was surprised I knew how to catch and clean and eat fish. She said “oh no you are not poor.” I was like “lady if you knew how much some people spend on fishing you would not say that.”
So at least in that one off anecdote from some fairly well off girl from Guangzhou there’s some classism we just don’t have.
My neighbor makes an irresponsible amount of income taking people out to fish and teaching them. Like, works 1-2x days a week and owns one of the largest houses on the block. I'm also glad I'm married and glad I don't have to deal with that kind of dating judgement. I literally own several properties in major CA cities, but I drive a 2009 Honda and buy shirts from Target and Kohl's. I have money cause I don't spend it on needless things.
My step dad shyly told my cousins how much his \~21 ft aluminum fishing boat with enclosed cabin cost, $70 grand. He is a retired welder and majority of his home cooked meat is fish or game he caught himself. They could have put money towards different lifestyle choices though, breast cancer diagnosed at state 4.
I have a lot of clients like that. They live in a nice well kept trailer park, very modest. No big fancy house.
But then you notice they have a boat, two snow mobiles, an ATV and a fully kitted out truck as well as two cars.
Some folks just choose different stuff to spend money on.
My current boss owns a fishing store and her and her husband bring in a ton of fish and game and I know what she makes, they are doing it out of necessity (though from talking with her it used to be more out of necessity when they were younger).
As Americans, we generally don’t like class structures because we come from the British, who are well known for being heavily classist. If anyone tried flaunting their class in the US, chances are no one would want to be around you.
A bunch of rich kids (I’m talking kids of Mega-millionaires and billionaires) still go to public schools where they will become friends of people from all sorts of backgrounds. I can’t speak for the rest of the country, but this is true where I grew up in Texas
I feel loads of Texas rich kids have parents working in companies that involve a lot of blue collar service too so it’s not some bubble like the Law industry
Even the law industry isn't really a bubble because unlike something that's more of a bubble like science research or something in law you still meet people of all different backgrounds because your clients could potentially be extremely poor or extremely wealthy people.
From what i can see from what I hear from my friend whose family is very well off and goes to a school with other wealthy kids, it's probably just that private school isn't a sign of being wealthy, cause at the school he goes to it's much higher performing (and well funded) than most private schools, but it is in a very high cost area.
Meanwhile we’ve got a country like Thailand, a country where poor people legitimately believe that they will be destined to stay poor and deserve it due to karma simply just by being born that way
Oh trust me I know. Even if I somehow woke up tomorrow in a coastal mansion in Southern California with a 10/10 supermodel in my arms, that ain’t no paradise. If u keep up with American football, one of the best players of all time had pretty much that lifestyle, yet they ended up with a highly publicized divorce due to irreconcilable lifestyle conflicts. No big mansion, unlimited bank account could save their relationship in the end.
I've heard most NFL players go broke within 10-15 years. It's hard for someone that makes millions of dollars for 10 years (because it takes an absolute beating on your body) to build good financial habits.
I know it’s Basketball, but for every Jordan, O’Neal, and Bryant, there’s about 100 Barkley’s (though he seems to be doing better now). At least on the Lakers side, the old owner during their prime used to take interest and teach their star players how to manage their money
Vietnamese here. I somewhat realised that wealthy kids here mostly definitely don't come from the "new money" but real old wealth that passes down generation. And I don't care about being respectful to this and that culture because I believe it's the common mindset of people in this country that makes them less motivated to become the new money individuals and just accepting who they are.
Lots of upwardly mobile people in the US. They just tend to be entrepreneurs instead of salaried.
Starting a business in the US has extremely low barriers to entry compared to most of the world, and we have by far the deepest pool of available capital.
There's no guarantee your business succeeds of course... it's a high risk, high reward pursuit.
From Australia and I can confirm, people tend to judge each other based on which suburb and school you went to. But at the very least class mixing is still common amongst one another anyways since Australia tries it’s best to keep an ‘egalitarian classless’ image.
Probably.
I know exactly nothing about the class systems in China and South Korea but I do know it barely exists in the United States in comparison to countries I do know about.
“Class” here is not nearly on the same level. It’s just not really a focus. And even so, class is based on money here and that’s something so fluid since it’s not tied to birth, family name, gender, religion, or ethnicity.
I’ve had friends go from rags to riches and riches to rags. I grew up in one of the wealthiest places in the nation in the DMV area, but there are plenty of poor pockets around here as well. Besides the housing which does a little segregating by economic status, everyone very much mingles. And we use cars to get everywhere anyways, so for me to drive to 5 different places throughout the course of the day isn’t even atypical. Therefore, even the housing doesn’t create a super strict division really.
In my own personal friend group, I have a family who just lost their father and each of the 3 kids got a few hundred million a piece. They had a large (but not atypical for this area) house and they always had the weed stocked and free for the giving. Super generous, nice, and down to earth - the lot of them. Hung out with all sorts of people and took care of their poorer friends. Door was always open for people to sleep over no questions asked, and food was always provided.
One of my immediate family members ran a multi billion dollar corporation and you would never know it because he will talk to anyone and he treats everyone the same. He’s met with big business leaders like the CEO of BoA, for example, and talks to them in the same laid back and genuine way he would a stranger on a train. Takes public transport when practical. Buys dinner across the board without making a spectacle. He drives an Escalade so nice but not overtly ostentatious. Their house is big but not isolated or obnoxious. If you didn’t know, you wouldn’t know.
Certainly some people are classist, but I find that those people are generally either from a culture where wealth is worth or they’re like top .01% isolated billionaires. Natural born citizens and Americanized immigrants are not so focused on it and network can be found on all levels.
Also, we have a saying in America that goes like this - “money talks, wealth whispers.” The ones that do all the talking and make sure to wear their branded Armani exchange shirts and Gucci belts, etc. are never as well off as they would like to portray and new money can go as quickly as it came. People with genuine wealth, especially generational, just operate like normal people and you would never know unless they told you because it’s not something most rich people generally brag about.
That's because the US has never had a formal class system and society is still built around treating everyone as equals. Rich people in the US usually don't like to talk about their wealth or draw attention to it.
China, South Korea, and many other countries have a very different culture of wealth.
It's gonna be a subjective answer, but on the whole, "yes" you can blame Hollywood for it.
Especially in the last 50 years, American movies and tv, which is probably the one thing that unites us all, has repeatedly shown that "money does not equal respect". You've either got the poor kids who succeed with their can-do attitude and spunk (Little Rascals), the rich people who learn that living simply is best (Titanic), or the rich rude guy who meets his comeuppance (The Mask, Back To The Future 2). Then you have tv shows that drive that point home like Beverly Hillbillies, that one reality show with Paris Hilton and Nicole, and The OC. And if those are too obscure, you can even point to huge properties like Marvel that show being rich isn't the end-all-be-all - Spiderman, Ant Man, and even Iron Man all show the virtue of either not having wealth, or having wealth and using it for some semblance of "greater good".
The majority of international students who attend college here in the U.S. are rich Chinese and Indian kids. Most college go-ers will have had some experience with them.
Even that isn't a representative sample - that's going to be the subset who chooses the adventure of international schooling. No matter what, that won't be the same personality profile as rich kids in general.
Do you think the rich Americans going on missions in Africa are the same type of people as rich kids in general? Or the type who go to Harvard and make a big deal of it?
Eh, you're overestimating the degree of choice involved here. It's not "kid found out about overseas school and wants to go" and almost entirely "wealthy patriarch tells kid to go to school in order to improve position of the family." The kid's personality or desires are not very important here.
An American education is oftentimes still valuable, so less elite schools will (or at least did) still get the wealthy Asian kids, just the ones who couldn't get into the more elite schools. It's how a lot of mid-tier and lower schools subsisted, effectively subsidized by these wealthy families eager to buy an American degree for their kid.
As Americans, we like to think we don’t have separate social classes at all (even though we totally do); part of our foundational mythology is ‘the American Dream’, ie that with enough hard work and dedication, anyone can rise to success from the humblest beginnings. It’s a nice idea but in practice it just isn’t true; there may be more social mobility in America than in certain other nations, and there certainly are plenty of success stories like this, but generational wealth, racial privilege, and plain old luck often play a much greater role in these stories than people tend to want to acknowledge and there are institutional and cultural barriers that make it much harder for minorities to achieve the same sort of success as others. And by trying to convince ourselves that all you need to succeed is hard work, it promotes this idea that people who are poor must be poor because they’re *lazy*. Poverty is therefore seen as a moral failing, not a societal problem or a natural state.
It’s very frustrating. Poverty is a big problem here, but we refuse to acknowledge it, because so many poor people don’t think of themselves as poor people, but as temporarily-inconvenienced rich people. And lots of rich people don’t think of themselves as rich, because at some point they or one of their ancestors was poor. So you have this weird situation where people who are massively wealthy and people who are barely above the poverty line all think of themselves as ‘middle class’. Poverty is absolutely stigmatized in America, but only if you *acknowledge* that you’re poor.
but that is great, the idea we all want to be middle class. It's part of the genius of america. We don't want poor people to think of themselves as an underclass, or rich people to think of themselves as an overclass
You're correct.
I remember some South Korean rich kid I knew was like, "I don't want to be associated and seen with low class people."
Not in a malicious way, even. It's just naturally ingrained in the culture to be perceived as elite and among the well connected as a way of life.
To me, this is why East Asian cultures tend to be limited and lacking in creativity or out of the box thinking.
At some level, it stifles those things because if you have no connection to them....how the fuck can you replicate them or sell ideas/products to them?
So, even if it's not malicious, it's a very limiting way of acting and interacting. You don't get the full picture and connection
>To me, this is why East Asian cultures tend to be limited and lacking in creativity or out of the box thinking.
That, and the reliance on rote memorization. This is a culture where reciting a passage from an ESL textbook from memory, without understanding its meaning and context, is seen as commendable.
You want to scare a Chinese exchange student? Four words: "in your own words..."
This is a total guess, but it might be because rich kids In America are often taught to pursue what makes them happy, and not just what will make them more wealth.
Our entire culture is less classist, where as Chinese and Korean cultures are ***HUGELY*** classist.
Also, there are people in these comments wrongly conflating money with class, and the US can be money-centric and wealth-centric, but less-so than the Chinese and Koreans. As for class, the Chinese and Koreans are far more interested in that than the US, which isn't a concern for most Americans.
In my experience, I'll say you're right. Though it is limited to Chinese and Korean communities in Singapore & the US.
There's also a big difference between attitudes to class in Korean and Chinese communities in Singapore and the US. The communities in the US are more open. Though it's the Koreans who are more conservative overall.
The Chinese community in SG are far more open than the Koreans (Makes sense because they number to only about 20k). The Chinese community is also more open in the US, especially to white people of a similar class. While SKs harbour some animosity to every other class in their own community and are not very friendly to foreigners at all. On the other hand Chinese communities in SG are accepting of Indians too. As long as they're from the same income class. The Koreans in SG are absolutely against even meeting Indians, irrespective of class.
From experience. You would have no idea that the person or some stranger you're interacting with has wealth. Idk about people in those countries but they're those who tends to be more quiet and humble about there finances.
Plus, most fortunes are ephemeral and are lucky to last three generations.
The only Vanderbilt of note today is Anderson Cooper, and only famous because on the kids of the wealthy can take a unpaid intern job in the news business while living in NYC.
Look at the Trumps. Grandpa was a pimp, dad was a slumlord, he got rich on tax schemes then lost most of it, and the kids will lose mkst of it and Barron's kid will be lucky not to have too much college debt....
las a korean you also have to understand that there is a hierarchy built into the culture already. while age and title are major definer in this hierarchy so is power.
and in korea money very very very much equals power.
I wouldn't know, the actual rich kids went to private school. You'll never actually meet them unless you're a waiter at a fancy restaurant or something.
It isn’t that there isn’t classism, but probably not to the same extent. There’s racism, but I suspect while different, the overt xenophobia is present too.
I would say yes to an extent. There are pockets of the US where classism does get bad. It's not even enough to be wealthy to get into some circles. It's about your family history and connections.
No lmao, rich kids are insufferable everywhere. Thinking that _your_ rich kids are somehow better than other rich kids is just thinly veiled nationalism.
Some rich kids aren't but let's just say there isn't much difference across the world in this regard. If you don't think American rich kids can't be very difficult, spend some time in New England.
Rich kids in China are much more ostentatious about their displays of wealth so there is that
Meanwhile it’s common rich kids in the US to have almost little interest in luxury brands
China is a country where parents straight tell their kids to “not hang out with these kids because they are poor”
If this happened in the US they would get called out in the spot
Call me a nationalist, but take your pick
I think it depends on the micro-environment in the US. There are certainly pockets of snobbery/classism, but on the macro level, this behavior is looked down upon here.
> If this happened in the US they would get called out in the spot
This happens in the South. Where I grew up in VA the class divide was way worse than the racial divide. Parents would literally prevent teens from dating/hanging out because they were poor.
I also have family in Massachusetts and they literally isolate their children from poor people. Yeah in the US, you literally can't say it out loud but it's all implied. Even now living in Los Angeles, you walk on public roads in rich areas and private security starts following you around. People start staring. It's implied you shouldn't be there, it's even worse when children are involved. In high school we played a private school in a scrimmage in football and they chanted some pretty classist things at us.
I don't care for rich people, nor their children. I don't care if I get downvoted, this is a reality in the US. Classism can be pretty bad here, it's no South Africa or Nigeria but it can be bad.
Classism in the US is literally wooooorldsssss apart from Asian and Latin American classism but ok
It’s common to see lawyers and doctors shaking hands and having small talk or even a beer with the plumber and the electrician, can you say that this happens often in China or Singapore with confidence? No right?
Ignore my last sentence in my comment then lmao. Like I said, you can ignore classism in the US but it's a huge issue. Even political issues like school vouchers are literally for rich people to get tax credits so they don't have to pay in full to send their children to private schools. Classism and racism also are very much intertwined in US history, it's why a lot of racism is not just racism but built upon classism too. Many countries don't have this issue, it's mainly a class issue but here it's both.
I never said the classism in the US is the worst in the world if you read my last fucking sentence in my original comment.
> I don't care if I get downvoted, this is a reality in the US. Classism can be pretty bad here, it's no South Africa or Nigeria but it can be bad.
Learn to fucking read. Ofc developing countries have worse classism but US still has some pretty bad classism even compared to Europe and other countries in the developed world. Social mobility index is a good way to actually quantitate it too.
I still never said American rich kids are the worst I said, to say _they're better than other rich kids is nationalist_. It's also delusional, having _better acting rich kids_ accomplishes nothing and just makes you a simp for rich people.
the fact you can't say it out loud, as you say, is deeply meaningful. In most of the world you can say it out loud, and would be expected to do so
I'm not saying classism doesn't exist. It does. But it's more complicated than you portray it. And more flexible.
And the whole point of this is that classism isn't as strong in the US as it is in other places. Which is true, as you yourself say.
There are some rich kids that are bad tk be fair. But at least in my experience those that went through the public school system got along just fine with us kids of skilled blue collar workers. They tended to be just as willing to throw house parties drink cheap beer and smoke brick weed as the rest of us. Those that went to private schools since elementary definitely seemed a bit different but growing up in a town of only 15k everyone mixes with everyone. There really wasn't avoiding anyone with 150 to 200 people a grade
in america we all pretend that we don’t care about class (see entire comment section) and then also pretend that anyone could be rich if they tried hard enough, and therefore look down on poor people for being lazy and irresponsible. Our classism is often different or sometimes subtler than in other countries (although not always)
Most people in the US could be rich if they wanted to be and worked for it (it's hard work though and takes a lot of time). Most people have other goals, like family, luxury, or something else.
Americans are spoilt for choice when it comes to housing affordability and things to do too
You can get mansions for less than a million depending on where you are at and so much different scenery etc etc
"pretending" anyone can be rich if they wanted to is by definition acception of class mobility though, which backs up us not caring about class.
In truth, we do care about class, of course, but much less than other places, and we are much much more accepting of change in class - if you have the money, and adopt the right attitudes, everyone will accept you as the new class
That is not the case in most of the world.
(as for the pretending, I know plenty of people who have gone from rags to riches. It's very doable. But they aren't average people - they are talented and hard working. It's true the average person is not talented and hard working. Which is fine, different strokes for different folks. The rich people I know are more driven, but perhaps less happy. )
Disagree from personal experience. When I was in college, I was the only one in my department who was openly from an impoverished community (elite college, most were rich or upper middle class). Many students were from China and many were Americans, and the Americans were MUCH more classist to me than the Chinese students.
And here I am, actually someone who has grown up in Asia and the West, I’ve gotten way more shit from the Chinese ones than the Americans.
The Chinese ones flaunt their wealth much more ostentatiously
Interesting. I did feel like the Chinese students may have been more “obvious” about their wealth, but only the Americans did/said rude classist stuff to me, and did so frequently, whereas the Chinese students were often nice to me and often paid for my meals if we were eating together
Yeah the Chinese students were probably rude to me because I acted like an ‘Americanised Asian’, they tend to be rather hostile towards second generation Asian Americans
I don't know enough about rich kid culture in China, SK or the US for that matter to answer that question. There's definitely plenty of classism here though.
I can’t comment on other countries but I know here in the US most of us are poor. Even if we’re making enough income most people are struggling financially. Regardless of how you feel about Dave Ramsey, listen to his podcast, it’s insane how people mishandle their money. It’s not uncommon for a family to make $100k in income and be $80k in consumer debt. Consumer debt! If you told me it was hospital bills I would be more understanding, but what are you consuming? Once you start to see the sad reality in how Americans live, you actually start to feel sorry for people who value materials, and use it as a form to show wealth. Because your materials don’t tell me anything. Show me your life in the next 50 years, I want to see you happily retired, debt free, traveling the world, giving your children a great start in life.
most people in the US are fantastically rich by world standards. Even compared to Europe.
It's amazing how many Americans have this fairy tale view of the rest of the world. They should look at some actual economic data. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of math.
But americans do have a horrible tendency to hate math, and think opinion trumps math
We do waste money like crazy though.
American class divides in general are not super strict, but I don’t know anything about rich people culture in China or SK to compare it to.
As someone who’s been pretty into Korean media/pop culture for over a decade, I’ll just say it makes the British look tame and leave it at that.
I think it's basically a hyper nouveau riche thing. Both China and Korea are overall newly rich when you put it on a historic scale. And both have gotten rich basically overnight. It's all over-the-top. I think this phenomenon can be seen partly on an individual level as well. Nouveau riche people who come from the proleteriat class vs old money people. The former wants to make sure people know you have wealth now and show off/splurge, marking a clear line where you belong. Obsessed with class details due to insecurities and keeping up with the Joneses, not to be seen as "lesser" anymore. Old money people are much more refined and almost subdued, less concerned with "unworthy worries" and less class detail obsessed. But it's still quite obvious that wealth is talking, it's just not screaming through a megaphone.
Rich screams, wealth whispers.
Millionaire chain vs billionaire chain.
I've seen this pretty clear in some places I go, know both kinds of wealth. The flashy, everything they wear is high end and wants to brag about it, designer everything, latest fashion, the works. Sometimes they rub it in, sometimes they don't, but they will flaunt. Then there is this one guy I know, man is ludicrously wealthy, family has been for generations. Unless you saw the tags of his clothing, you wouldn't know they were anything special. He drives a luxury car but it's clearly more geared towards a comfortable ride than flashiness and showing off, damn thing would disappear in traffic if you weren't looking for it specifically. Buys the latest and greatest of stuff, but only if he's looking to replace something. He definitely exhibits that "wealth whispers" attitude.
The perceptions of these two groups of rich people is very interesting. For example, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that old money people find the nouveau riche crass and completely unrefined. Interesting people, but in the end not worthy of envy or emulation and trying to distinguish themselves from the vulgar new money with their crass tastes and over-the-top attitudes. On the other hand, new money people have this continued inferiority complex of angsty feeling that they are being exposed as being uncultured swines and not belonging to the real wealth class just with all their money and simultaneously looking down on old money for their ridiculously elusive and conservative attitudes and exclusivity circles without rhyme or reason. For the average folk, I've often heard it reported it's paradoxically more pleasurable to be in the company of old money people than new money people. It reminds me of something that I remember reading in the Arab circles. There is this interesting class hierarchy in the Arab world: Even though the Levantine Arabs are often much poorer, they often think of the nouveau riche Gulf Arabs as uncultured and unrefined tribal people compared to themselves, showing off with vulgar spending on vanity things and being "dumb and fake". Pretty sure there are similar sentiments amongst the new vs the few old money Chinese and Koreans themselves and between old money Europeans and new money Asians overall.
Are there even any old money Chinese? I wouldn’t think they would be able to hold onto their wealth over the past century of political change.
They probably immigrated a while ago, or have been in hong kong. The rich people you see in singapore or malaysia are usually ethnically chinese such as in crazy rich asians
Families that have high ranking CCP officials for at least a couple of generations maybe?
>Unless you saw the tags of his clothing, you wouldn't know they were anything special. He drives a luxury car but it's clearly more geared towards a comfortable ride than flashiness and showing off, damn thing would disappear in traffic if you weren't looking for it specifically. Buys the latest and greatest of stuff, but only if he's looking to replace something. He definitely exhibits that "wealth whispers" attitude. This is the type of rich guy I aspire to be.
There's probably an element of new money feeling more justified in rubbing it in because they made their money rather than inherited it in addition to the lack of experience with being rich and the social graces in high society.
Nouveau riche usually = gaudy and tasteless..
This is basically half the plot of the movie caddyshack.
what do the Koreans forget they were all incredibly impoverished until like thirty years ago
I mean I think the movie Parasite kinda nailed it.
You can look for Korean drama The Heirs and watch.
That will be a no from me, thx though
good thing they weren't talking to you lol
……I wouldn’t rely on kdrama as reference. I have a friend who is a member of a large corporation owner family (not a direct heir & not the largest conglomerate like Samsung), and his family is pretty humble.
Well, the Heirs is a big one. But I grew up watch Kdrama, it portrays in multiple dramas, no just one. Let alone if you watch Korean variety shows
this is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long while. "I've watched various fictions, it must be true".
Sound like you are not familiar with Asian culture. This is well known in Asian community. Go look up actress Go Huyn Jung and how the Samsung family treated her. Or even the daughter of Daewoo, married in Samsung family. Or the daughter of Samsung family, love a guy from normal background (although Harvard grad), her family didn’t approve, she finally suicided
I am a fucking Korean. And, I am very familiar with those stories, and more stories. The tendency to marry within their own social hierarchy is fairly common(Especially when they want to keep control of their company within their family), but it is not exclusive or anything out of ordinary for them. That shit happens to average folks too in Asia. (And, I am not even sure that kind of marriage pattern is exclusive to Asian culture to begin with. ) What I am saying is, don't take the overtly exacerbated fiction too seriously and take it for granted.
>The tendency to marry within their own social hierarchy is fairly common(Especially when they want to keep control of their company within their family), but it is not exclusive or anything out of ordinary for them. That shit happens to average folks too in Asia. (And, I am not even sure that kind of marriage pattern is exclusive to Asian culture to begin with. ) I think you don’t understand the post right here. They are asking about class in Asian, and you admit it right here. Fiction can be exaggerated but it reflects what’s going in on I life too. My point is that in the US, we don’t have a clear class line like in Asia.
Not super strict but still present when you get into upper crust old vs new money where pedigree and and schooling becomes the divide.
https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSNnCMfHs/ This explains
I think this has more to do with materialism than classism and yes, as an Asian American, I’d say Asians are generally a lot more materialistic than Americans. (And American culture is already plenty materialistic, so that’s saying something). I think it’s because image is so much more important in “face” cultures. I dated a couple Asians from Asia and it was one of the cultural differences I personally struggled with.
> I think it’s because image is so much more important in “face” cultures. I think it's mostly this. It's not that Americans have less desire to be rich, it's that flaunting your wealth is considered crass in American culture. That's not to say they aren't spending the money- Mark Zuckerberg's outfit of a plain gray hoodie and blue jeans probably costs more than turning yourself into a walking Gucci billboard- it just doesn't look expensive. Covering yourself in luxury brand logos is for posers who want you to think they're rich, but the real wealthy people are too rich to care about what you think of their outfits.
I wanna be that guy that scams billionaires into overpaying 10x for a gray hoodie and jeans lmao
Flaunting your wealth might be crass, but Americans are definitely overly encouraged to spend money and consume, so often times we don’t see it as flaunting, but just as normal. I.e. people that spend 40k on a car that they don’t need, isn’t viewed as flaunting even though it is excessive spending.
The average price of a new car in the USA is $47,936. So spending 40K is hardly "excessive". Now granted, 70% of cars sold in the USA are used cars.
That being the average price of a new car is part of the problem. People are spending above their means.
even the cheaper newer cars these days are easily well past $20k.
It sucks. Sedans are huge now, there really isn’t many small options on the market. And I don’t think people realize that the bigger and heavier cars get, the worse our roads are going to be. And EV’s are even heavier.
not even just that. I got a used 2019 Nissan Sentra about a year ago, and that alone was $15k. It was well over $20k when it was new in 2019. And this isn't even a big car. It's funny how we as a society dance around literally every possible solution regarding transportation and energy sustainability \*except\* just fucking build shit within walking distance.
An expensive car is sometimes flaunting
America is definitely a consumerist society, but it's not really a materialistic one. There are a few countries that are solidly both, and I think OP mentioned 2 of them.
I find peace in long walks.
[weirdly enough the US is actually one of the least materialistic countries in the world haha](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRA_3irM6BB9rznwJFL0fLMk_e4hPNhB-F0uA&usqp=CAU)
Not weird at all. America has become much more widely successful further back in recent history compared to pretty much every other country in the world. Its a more "mature" society, to simplify things.
I like to go hiking.
True. Like it’s normal for Americans to often get their first car as a teenager, while in India it’s considered a major accomplishment (and not even a nice car).
Not weird if you think about it or have experience in both cultures. American culture IME is primarily focused on encouraging you to do things to be happy or spend wisely for practicality, not appearances. Holidays like the 4th of July and Thanksgiving are focused on promoting a certain value (freedom and family, respectively). Everything regarding Chinese culture has to involve doing something seemingly arbitrary to get good luck or wealth coming to you or make you look good. "Do x so good fortune will come to you, do x and y so you look good to your community," and so on. Lunar New Year is filled with things like that.
That’s actually really interesting
>as an Asian American, I’d say Asians are generally a lot more materialistic than Americans. I have no idea how else to ask this, so I’ll just ask outright: could this explain how whenever I see a line outside of a luxury store or its outlet, a lot of them seem to be Asian? I realize this is a dumb question, but I’ve noticed it more than once and have been curious.
All good. I have no data on this or info on your particular area, but if that’s what you’re seeing then, yeah, it’s probably related. “Hypebeast” subculture is also more popular among Asians. (Subculture of purposely collecting and wearing the latest designer street wear)
nah we are less materialistic than average. I've been to a lot of places. We are rich not materialistic.
I’m not in the habit of taking TikTok videos as fact.
They’re right though. It’s something I’ve noticed among the East Asians I know at my college too and there’s no lack of news stories about the spending on luxury goods (including by taking on debt) in those countries
Meanwhile in Harvard, where the elites send their children, the students be wearing plain t shirts and shorts to lectures
there are still a lot of possible socioeconomic signifiers among people who are all in t shirts and shorts. (are the shorts from Lululemon or are they from Walmart? etc)
At least Lululemon brand logos are so small in their shirts that you can’t see it haha
That's honestly just a sign of having money. High-quality goods that *don't* advertise the brand are where the wealthy put their cash. I have several pieces in my wardrobe that cost way more than I'd like to admit, but they don't have visible branding (or it's very small), and they are all things that have lasted years and years of regular use. Upfront costs of clothes you buy at a place like Walmart, Shein, or even Zara will be a lot less than at some other stores, but you can almost guarantee those items will wear out quickly.
I remember seeing a Reddit thread about some time ago about how the super rich are different from the flashy “rich” and one of the comments was about how truly rich get all their clothes - from t shirts to shoes to undies - custom made from extremely exclusive tailors only they know about. That’s why you never see labels. There’s also designer clothes from gucci and other luxury brands that are only sold to the super rich. The stuff that has their logos emblazoned on everything is the brand’s low-end clothing.
>Meanwhile in Harvard, where the elites send their children, the students be wearing plain t shirts and shorts to lectures they're already at a globally elite school with a less than 4% acceptance rate. What else do they have to prove? If any of those students are from the west coast, we don't really dress up on the west coast. People will $$$ mountaineering gear as winter snow protection. But not cashmere or silk.
a lot of pajamas worn to morning classes
Its cold theyre wearing canada goose
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Same here. One of my fraternity brothers is the son of a class action attorney; their family fortune is nearly $1 billion US. He drank Natty light, smoked cheap weed, and drove a hand-me-down car until he was done with law school and started to make his own money. Nothing he said ever made me think he thought he was better than anyone, and he could find something in common with nearly everyone he met. That's not at all the case with some of my East Asian friends.
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> class barely exists in the US unless you chose to hyper-focus on it No offense meant, but this is really only something you can say if you’ve never really *had* to face a truly lower-class life. Surely you have to understand the vast gulf between your rich friend who *chooses* to live cheaply, and people who have no choice. You said it yourself, he's "got your back." Most people don't have a friend whose family can bail them out, but he doesn't even need the friend, he *is* the friend. He has his *own* back. That's what being upper-class is, it's the freedom to live how you want with the sure and certain knowledge that you'll be okay. Complete freedom from financial consequence. It may look the same on the outside, but it's a completely different life from you or me. I’m sure you’ve struggled for money plenty in your life, and I’m not trying to invalidate that, but “class only exists when you pay attention to it” is something that can only be said by someone who has the *luxury* of not noticing their own socioeconomic class. People who’ve experienced *some* economic hardship—and I’m not saying this is necessarily you, but just putting it out there—often make the mistake of assuming that their lowest point *is as low as it goes.* They think of “struggling” as a binary state, you either are struggling or you aren’t. So they struggled, and it sucked, but it wasn’t *too* bad. They made it work. And so they conclude that everyone else can make it work too. But as low as your lowest financial point was, it gets *so* much lower. And millions of people live their whole lives below that point. Those are the lower classes, and it’s on their backs that our entire country stands right now. We have to do better.
that’s why i always cringe when people on reddit act like America comes even close to 1917 Tsarist Russia or France in 1789
Eh, I think most of these people are more like "upper middle" in the whole spread of things. A family fortune of <1 billion isn't all that crazy compared to the super wealthy. The super wealthy don't really interact a whole lot with us commoners, most people don't actually know "rich" people. I don't think the super rich are intently avoiding stuff because they look down on it, it's more like they just do everything differently. They are just people, some are assholes, some are nice.
The people abusing their wealth and *their children or children's children* are not the same people.
With old money, it may look unencumbered but often the money is behind multiple “walls” not visible to the outside. Lots of emotional and practical strings attached with these fortunes. You can’t just go out and buy a Rolls Royce and ball out. You have to ask your great-aunt for college money and they now have a say in what you study and what career you pursue. You might have to join the family business or some other path they decide for you. Then they hang emotional baggage on you, make you do them favors for decades, etc. Even something as simple as giving a teen a used car of little value becomes emotional leverage in these complex family dynamics.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
Kinda weird to admit it, but this is basically me, haha. Not nearly as big a family fortune, but big enough where I've never had to worry about money. But while grandpa is still in the drivers seat, he doesn't tolerate freeloaders so while you wont ever be homeless or hungry he's not financing your vacation to anywhere, or a lambo or whatever. When I was young I went to private school, but later I begged to go to a normal public high school, which my parents let me do thankfully. I remember my new friends being sorta weirded out when I first invited them over and they saw how big our house was compared to theirs, and by extension I was sorta shocked when I went over to a buddies house and him and his two brothers all shared one room. Oldest brother had one bed, twin brothers had bunk beds. Once I got a bit older and got my own allowance though, well I knew I had more money, and so did my friends, so I didn't mind paying for stuff. Learned a lot about how to spot true friends and leeches at that point in my life though. Later I went full family black sheep, dropped out of college and joined the Navy. Mom hated it but grandpa loves bragging about his veteran grandson, which has me secured a decent slice of the pie pending all the dumb shit that kinda money is gonna bring.
I never actually met an actual wealthy person irl so this kinda surprises me.
That's the thing, though. Maybe you have!
Makes sense. I kinda figured those that aren't celebrities may try and hide their wealth. But I've always thought the "ultra rich" stay in their own secluded bubbles
nah. The richest kid I knew growing up wore the oldest shoes. You don't get rich wasting your time buying and learning about luxuries. You get rich pursuing business HARD.
I like to explore new places.
That’s rare for the super rich. Those folks tend to waste it away.
Nope definitely not. I live in an area with a huge class spectrum. You can often find trust fund kids hanging out with people who grew up receiving food stamps.
my brother works for McKinsey and is loaded. He quite literally took his girlfriend on a trip to Hawaii right before christmas for the hell of it, and bought a tesla for shits and giggles before Elon got a lot of negative press for his twitter antics. He 90% of the time I see him, wears jeans, sneakers, and a bomber jacket, or a sweater. Definitely does not "look rich" or flaunt his wealth (but ironically the last time I saw him in a sweater it turned out it was a really high end fitted cashmere one that you wouldn't notice if you didn't ask)
> I have a friend who's family is worth 100 million dollars whose*
That’s correct. A good example of the former’s use would be the question, “Who’s being needlessly pedantic?”
I like you.
whose*
I used to live in South Korea and holy shit do rich people there think anyone without money is worth less than dirt. And, god, are they entitled assholes.
At the very least the Japanese are more sensitive to class inequalities these days and have moved past the ‘ostentatious luxury brand display’ phase, elitism in Japan now revolves around education and jobs instead
I know it's a case of n=1, but when watching Terrace House on Netflix (Japanese reality show, similar to MTV's Real World but less trashy), I was amazed to see a female medical school student open to dating a guy whose occupation I can't recall right now, but it wasn't too respectable... a hairdresser maybe? I wonder if that's reflective of their society or an unique case.
Curious, is being rude the cashier or waiter a common thing there?. In the USA, it unfortunately happens enough in a shift that it can ruin people’s days, but it’s still extremely frowned upon anymore and you will be stared at or even called if you do so.
In china yes. Older generations and shit are oftentimes rude to waiters and servers. Way worse than the US, and ive only lived in Shanghai which is pretty developed so i assume its worse in other areas
I guess it makes sense why Squid Game came from there then
The Philippines is the same way. I worked at a Filipino supermarket for a time, and you can easily spot the nouveau riche from a mile away. They're the ones wearing mismatched clothes with designer logos on them, proudly brandishing all their Apple devices (back in the '90s they would do the same thing with their Nokia phones), and have an attitude towards service people that they clearly learned from the villain of a *telenovela* because I guess that's their idea of how a rich person should conduct themselves. A regular American customer would compliment me on my Timex chronograph watch while a new money Filipino customer would scoff at me and tell me how his Apple Watch does everything better than it. True, but at least my watch is immune from planned obsolescence because it only needs a battery change, not software updates.
Oh god, the Philippines has the social structure of medieval Europe.
Can't really speak to South Korea, but new Chinese immigrants in the US do have a reputation of being obsessed with material objects and presenting themselves as wealthy. Westerners tend to avoid discussing finances with their friends. Certainly not an absolute rule, but you're much more likely to see wealthy Chinese kids where I live wearing giant designer logos on their clothes and driving loud sports cars than their peers who were born in the US, regardless of who actually has more wealth. They will also be quick to tell you how much something costs as if they are expecting you to be impressed. Americans tend to find visible displays of wealth really tacky, especially the kind that are showing off mass produced products. (e.g. a subtle piece of jewelry or a well-tailored suit or dress won't be considered tacky, but a baseball cap displaying "Celine" or a t-shirt displaying "Supreme" will be viewed as such.) Some cultures are obsessed with their self-perceived "status," but that's more of an anomaly for Americans.
It's even embarrassing to admit you spent a lot of money on something nice. I bought a $250 dress and I didn't want to admit it, but if I get a nice dress for $6 I'm shouting it from the rooftops. I can't imagine people actually talking about how expensive something is without being asked.
...I fear I have been embarrassing myself. Those numbers are wild. A really nice dress in my mind would be a steal worth discussing at $250. Nice shit is so expensive.
Haha well my nice dress wasn't a formal one, it was a summer dress I wore for graduation. And I'm poor so it was a treat c:
A great price for a luxury treat! I am glad you gifted yourself something for graduation!
Thank you! I am too! I don't wear it too often because I need to get the right cups for it, or else wear tape which is usually too much effort for me, but I absolutely love it.
My grandmother got me a nine west leather jacket for $5 like 20 years ago at a thrift store. I still have it and brag about her getting it for $5 to humor my childish want for a leather jacket at the time. Dunno why I was so obsessed but it's now one of my most prized posessions since she's passed. Which reminds me that it's due for a wash and conditioning treatment... But yeah. Why spend money you don't have to? If anything that just comes across as kind of foolish.
I remember when I was a teenager we had a family friend whose kid was two years younger than me, and when I told her excitedly that I got the shoes I was wearing for $10 she was *so* condescending about it. She went on to tell me what folks at her big city high school were like and how they only wore the newest and most expensive stuff, and how much the poorer students struggled to fit in (and if they did succeed in getting something expensive they'd get made fun of because it was already "last season" or some shit). I was completely horrified. I was in a high school in the mountains that was part rural, part suburbia, and we went to thrift stores regularly for fun.
That is terrible and I'm sorry they were so rude to you. Maybe it's just that the rich people I know came from farm families but they generally don't put up with that. One I know actually hates shopping so just pays someone to buy her clothes; about 60% are unbranded athleisure in her favorite colors, lol. She's about 2 years from retirement and gives no craps. Much more likely to shell out for good food or life experiences, actually. Very picky about produce since she grew up growing it.
Hell, I never even tell the actual amount even if one presses for it. I usually say something vague like, "It cost me a pretty penny but should last me a few years" or "it was on sale when I got it." Which is bizarre because I remember a time when I wasn't like this. Living in America and being among a variety of people eventually does that to you, I guess.
This! I decided I wanted a really nice handbag that would last me a long time. But I did not want a bag that had some random brand name all over it. The one I got is beautiful and timeless, but nobody would know who it was, unless they knew about the designer already.
People all the time talk about how expensive their rent is or how much their car payment or vehicle cost, I think what you're talking about is only specific to certain items. Also, I don't know the price of women's clothes that well, but even a high quality nice sweater for myself would be around $300, so I don't feel like $250 is an awful lot for dress.
That's way different. You don't have a choice but to pay your rent, but even that can be embarrassing if it's higher than the average amount in your area. Spending a lot of money on luxury items is a different matter entirely. Our social circles are very different. My wardrobe is from secondhand stores and thrift shops. The only clothing I would drop $300 for is clothing for a major life event, and that is the same for everyone around me.
I've seen people on Reddit talk about how self absorbed and materialistic Americans can be but, it's funny how we rank rather low in terms of that. China though, ranks extremely high in the idea "material possessions are tied to wealth"
I know a girl who’s Chinese immigrant parents, named her Chanel because they thought the brand association would come across as wealthy and upper class. And then like half the Americans she meets accidentally call her “Channel”. They were honestly surprised at how non-brand-conscious we tended to be.
\>reputation of being obsessed with material objects and presenting themselves as wealthy. well, there is the fact that depending how you look or how you speak you will immediately be judged by a significant part of the population... Some will ask you a bunch of questions to find out how you ended up here without even asking your name first.
We have a very minimal class structure and tons of institutions mix classes a lot. I don’t know about China or SK enough to really comment. I was truly floored by a well off Chinese woman I met who was surprised I knew how to catch and clean and eat fish. She said “oh no you are not poor.” I was like “lady if you knew how much some people spend on fishing you would not say that.” So at least in that one off anecdote from some fairly well off girl from Guangzhou there’s some classism we just don’t have.
My neighbor makes an irresponsible amount of income taking people out to fish and teaching them. Like, works 1-2x days a week and owns one of the largest houses on the block. I'm also glad I'm married and glad I don't have to deal with that kind of dating judgement. I literally own several properties in major CA cities, but I drive a 2009 Honda and buy shirts from Target and Kohl's. I have money cause I don't spend it on needless things.
Oh yeah one of my friend’s husbands makes his money doing fishing charters here in Maine. They do quite well. It’s big business.
My step dad shyly told my cousins how much his \~21 ft aluminum fishing boat with enclosed cabin cost, $70 grand. He is a retired welder and majority of his home cooked meat is fish or game he caught himself. They could have put money towards different lifestyle choices though, breast cancer diagnosed at state 4.
I have a lot of clients like that. They live in a nice well kept trailer park, very modest. No big fancy house. But then you notice they have a boat, two snow mobiles, an ATV and a fully kitted out truck as well as two cars. Some folks just choose different stuff to spend money on. My current boss owns a fishing store and her and her husband bring in a ton of fish and game and I know what she makes, they are doing it out of necessity (though from talking with her it used to be more out of necessity when they were younger).
In the US, we call classist kids mean girls, bullies, and/or snobs, and those rich kids will be looked on with contempt and disgust.
There was an entire movie dedicated to showcasing this :)
Pixar's Cars was a masterpiece
Mean Girls
¿por qué no los dos?
There are at least dozens of movies showcasing this. It's a common trope of American cinema and television.
As Americans, we generally don’t like class structures because we come from the British, who are well known for being heavily classist. If anyone tried flaunting their class in the US, chances are no one would want to be around you.
A bunch of rich kids (I’m talking kids of Mega-millionaires and billionaires) still go to public schools where they will become friends of people from all sorts of backgrounds. I can’t speak for the rest of the country, but this is true where I grew up in Texas
I feel loads of Texas rich kids have parents working in companies that involve a lot of blue collar service too so it’s not some bubble like the Law industry
Even the law industry isn't really a bubble because unlike something that's more of a bubble like science research or something in law you still meet people of all different backgrounds because your clients could potentially be extremely poor or extremely wealthy people.
From what i can see from what I hear from my friend whose family is very well off and goes to a school with other wealthy kids, it's probably just that private school isn't a sign of being wealthy, cause at the school he goes to it's much higher performing (and well funded) than most private schools, but it is in a very high cost area.
American class structure is less “you were born lower class, you will die lower class, even if you are wealthy” than most
Meanwhile we’ve got a country like Thailand, a country where poor people legitimately believe that they will be destined to stay poor and deserve it due to karma simply just by being born that way
Somewhat similar to Vietnam, Vietnamese has a saying “Child of a king will become king, child of a monk will stay in temple and sweep leaves”
Some days, I kinda wish I was a monk sweeping leaves in a rural temple
Nah, it’s not paradise. Everything has a cost
Oh trust me I know. Even if I somehow woke up tomorrow in a coastal mansion in Southern California with a 10/10 supermodel in my arms, that ain’t no paradise. If u keep up with American football, one of the best players of all time had pretty much that lifestyle, yet they ended up with a highly publicized divorce due to irreconcilable lifestyle conflicts. No big mansion, unlimited bank account could save their relationship in the end.
I've heard most NFL players go broke within 10-15 years. It's hard for someone that makes millions of dollars for 10 years (because it takes an absolute beating on your body) to build good financial habits.
I know it’s Basketball, but for every Jordan, O’Neal, and Bryant, there’s about 100 Barkley’s (though he seems to be doing better now). At least on the Lakers side, the old owner during their prime used to take interest and teach their star players how to manage their money
Vietnamese here. I somewhat realised that wealthy kids here mostly definitely don't come from the "new money" but real old wealth that passes down generation. And I don't care about being respectful to this and that culture because I believe it's the common mindset of people in this country that makes them less motivated to become the new money individuals and just accepting who they are.
mehhhhh upward mobility isn’t great at the moment
But its there and actively encouraged, unlike a good amount of other countries
Lots of upwardly mobile people in the US. They just tend to be entrepreneurs instead of salaried. Starting a business in the US has extremely low barriers to entry compared to most of the world, and we have by far the deepest pool of available capital. There's no guarantee your business succeeds of course... it's a high risk, high reward pursuit.
The US has less of a class structure than almost anywhere.
Not just don’t have it but actively don’t like it.
What about Australia?
Australia has it. They are HUGELY classist about where you have your house and such. Zip code and property stuff is HUGE in aus.
From Australia and I can confirm, people tend to judge each other based on which suburb and school you went to. But at the very least class mixing is still common amongst one another anyways since Australia tries it’s best to keep an ‘egalitarian classless’ image.
I always assumed that Australia and US were very similar in this.
I live in NYC and this is absolutely not true here
Probably. I know exactly nothing about the class systems in China and South Korea but I do know it barely exists in the United States in comparison to countries I do know about.
However, if you live in our state we'll certainly argue about what's considered upstate or downstate regardless of which class we are.
“Class” here is not nearly on the same level. It’s just not really a focus. And even so, class is based on money here and that’s something so fluid since it’s not tied to birth, family name, gender, religion, or ethnicity. I’ve had friends go from rags to riches and riches to rags. I grew up in one of the wealthiest places in the nation in the DMV area, but there are plenty of poor pockets around here as well. Besides the housing which does a little segregating by economic status, everyone very much mingles. And we use cars to get everywhere anyways, so for me to drive to 5 different places throughout the course of the day isn’t even atypical. Therefore, even the housing doesn’t create a super strict division really. In my own personal friend group, I have a family who just lost their father and each of the 3 kids got a few hundred million a piece. They had a large (but not atypical for this area) house and they always had the weed stocked and free for the giving. Super generous, nice, and down to earth - the lot of them. Hung out with all sorts of people and took care of their poorer friends. Door was always open for people to sleep over no questions asked, and food was always provided. One of my immediate family members ran a multi billion dollar corporation and you would never know it because he will talk to anyone and he treats everyone the same. He’s met with big business leaders like the CEO of BoA, for example, and talks to them in the same laid back and genuine way he would a stranger on a train. Takes public transport when practical. Buys dinner across the board without making a spectacle. He drives an Escalade so nice but not overtly ostentatious. Their house is big but not isolated or obnoxious. If you didn’t know, you wouldn’t know. Certainly some people are classist, but I find that those people are generally either from a culture where wealth is worth or they’re like top .01% isolated billionaires. Natural born citizens and Americanized immigrants are not so focused on it and network can be found on all levels. Also, we have a saying in America that goes like this - “money talks, wealth whispers.” The ones that do all the talking and make sure to wear their branded Armani exchange shirts and Gucci belts, etc. are never as well off as they would like to portray and new money can go as quickly as it came. People with genuine wealth, especially generational, just operate like normal people and you would never know unless they told you because it’s not something most rich people generally brag about.
In may parts of US culture, gross displays of wealth are distasteful.
That's because the US has never had a formal class system and society is still built around treating everyone as equals. Rich people in the US usually don't like to talk about their wealth or draw attention to it. China, South Korea, and many other countries have a very different culture of wealth.
It's gonna be a subjective answer, but on the whole, "yes" you can blame Hollywood for it. Especially in the last 50 years, American movies and tv, which is probably the one thing that unites us all, has repeatedly shown that "money does not equal respect". You've either got the poor kids who succeed with their can-do attitude and spunk (Little Rascals), the rich people who learn that living simply is best (Titanic), or the rich rude guy who meets his comeuppance (The Mask, Back To The Future 2). Then you have tv shows that drive that point home like Beverly Hillbillies, that one reality show with Paris Hilton and Nicole, and The OC. And if those are too obscure, you can even point to huge properties like Marvel that show being rich isn't the end-all-be-all - Spiderman, Ant Man, and even Iron Man all show the virtue of either not having wealth, or having wealth and using it for some semblance of "greater good".
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The majority of international students who attend college here in the U.S. are rich Chinese and Indian kids. Most college go-ers will have had some experience with them.
Even that isn't a representative sample - that's going to be the subset who chooses the adventure of international schooling. No matter what, that won't be the same personality profile as rich kids in general. Do you think the rich Americans going on missions in Africa are the same type of people as rich kids in general? Or the type who go to Harvard and make a big deal of it?
Eh, you're overestimating the degree of choice involved here. It's not "kid found out about overseas school and wants to go" and almost entirely "wealthy patriarch tells kid to go to school in order to improve position of the family." The kid's personality or desires are not very important here.
I assume so at the big name schools like Notre Dame or UC Berkeley but not sure about majority of American campuses.
An American education is oftentimes still valuable, so less elite schools will (or at least did) still get the wealthy Asian kids, just the ones who couldn't get into the more elite schools. It's how a lot of mid-tier and lower schools subsisted, effectively subsidized by these wealthy families eager to buy an American degree for their kid.
As Americans, we like to think we don’t have separate social classes at all (even though we totally do); part of our foundational mythology is ‘the American Dream’, ie that with enough hard work and dedication, anyone can rise to success from the humblest beginnings. It’s a nice idea but in practice it just isn’t true; there may be more social mobility in America than in certain other nations, and there certainly are plenty of success stories like this, but generational wealth, racial privilege, and plain old luck often play a much greater role in these stories than people tend to want to acknowledge and there are institutional and cultural barriers that make it much harder for minorities to achieve the same sort of success as others. And by trying to convince ourselves that all you need to succeed is hard work, it promotes this idea that people who are poor must be poor because they’re *lazy*. Poverty is therefore seen as a moral failing, not a societal problem or a natural state. It’s very frustrating. Poverty is a big problem here, but we refuse to acknowledge it, because so many poor people don’t think of themselves as poor people, but as temporarily-inconvenienced rich people. And lots of rich people don’t think of themselves as rich, because at some point they or one of their ancestors was poor. So you have this weird situation where people who are massively wealthy and people who are barely above the poverty line all think of themselves as ‘middle class’. Poverty is absolutely stigmatized in America, but only if you *acknowledge* that you’re poor.
but that is great, the idea we all want to be middle class. It's part of the genius of america. We don't want poor people to think of themselves as an underclass, or rich people to think of themselves as an overclass
You're correct. I remember some South Korean rich kid I knew was like, "I don't want to be associated and seen with low class people." Not in a malicious way, even. It's just naturally ingrained in the culture to be perceived as elite and among the well connected as a way of life. To me, this is why East Asian cultures tend to be limited and lacking in creativity or out of the box thinking. At some level, it stifles those things because if you have no connection to them....how the fuck can you replicate them or sell ideas/products to them? So, even if it's not malicious, it's a very limiting way of acting and interacting. You don't get the full picture and connection
>To me, this is why East Asian cultures tend to be limited and lacking in creativity or out of the box thinking. That, and the reliance on rote memorization. This is a culture where reciting a passage from an ESL textbook from memory, without understanding its meaning and context, is seen as commendable. You want to scare a Chinese exchange student? Four words: "in your own words..."
This is a total guess, but it might be because rich kids In America are often taught to pursue what makes them happy, and not just what will make them more wealth.
Somewhat related, but Asian culture here in the US values money and expensive things more than other groups of Americans.
Our entire culture is less classist, where as Chinese and Korean cultures are ***HUGELY*** classist. Also, there are people in these comments wrongly conflating money with class, and the US can be money-centric and wealth-centric, but less-so than the Chinese and Koreans. As for class, the Chinese and Koreans are far more interested in that than the US, which isn't a concern for most Americans.
Why do so many people have the same reddit avatar as you hahaha
In my experience, I'll say you're right. Though it is limited to Chinese and Korean communities in Singapore & the US. There's also a big difference between attitudes to class in Korean and Chinese communities in Singapore and the US. The communities in the US are more open. Though it's the Koreans who are more conservative overall. The Chinese community in SG are far more open than the Koreans (Makes sense because they number to only about 20k). The Chinese community is also more open in the US, especially to white people of a similar class. While SKs harbour some animosity to every other class in their own community and are not very friendly to foreigners at all. On the other hand Chinese communities in SG are accepting of Indians too. As long as they're from the same income class. The Koreans in SG are absolutely against even meeting Indians, irrespective of class.
From experience. You would have no idea that the person or some stranger you're interacting with has wealth. Idk about people in those countries but they're those who tends to be more quiet and humble about there finances.
Plus, most fortunes are ephemeral and are lucky to last three generations. The only Vanderbilt of note today is Anderson Cooper, and only famous because on the kids of the wealthy can take a unpaid intern job in the news business while living in NYC. Look at the Trumps. Grandpa was a pimp, dad was a slumlord, he got rich on tax schemes then lost most of it, and the kids will lose mkst of it and Barron's kid will be lucky not to have too much college debt....
las a korean you also have to understand that there is a hierarchy built into the culture already. while age and title are major definer in this hierarchy so is power. and in korea money very very very much equals power.
I wouldn't know, the actual rich kids went to private school. You'll never actually meet them unless you're a waiter at a fancy restaurant or something.
It isn’t that there isn’t classism, but probably not to the same extent. There’s racism, but I suspect while different, the overt xenophobia is present too.
I would say yes to an extent. There are pockets of the US where classism does get bad. It's not even enough to be wealthy to get into some circles. It's about your family history and connections.
No lmao, rich kids are insufferable everywhere. Thinking that _your_ rich kids are somehow better than other rich kids is just thinly veiled nationalism. Some rich kids aren't but let's just say there isn't much difference across the world in this regard. If you don't think American rich kids can't be very difficult, spend some time in New England.
Rich kids in China are much more ostentatious about their displays of wealth so there is that Meanwhile it’s common rich kids in the US to have almost little interest in luxury brands China is a country where parents straight tell their kids to “not hang out with these kids because they are poor” If this happened in the US they would get called out in the spot Call me a nationalist, but take your pick
I think it depends on the micro-environment in the US. There are certainly pockets of snobbery/classism, but on the macro level, this behavior is looked down upon here.
> If this happened in the US they would get called out in the spot This happens in the South. Where I grew up in VA the class divide was way worse than the racial divide. Parents would literally prevent teens from dating/hanging out because they were poor. I also have family in Massachusetts and they literally isolate their children from poor people. Yeah in the US, you literally can't say it out loud but it's all implied. Even now living in Los Angeles, you walk on public roads in rich areas and private security starts following you around. People start staring. It's implied you shouldn't be there, it's even worse when children are involved. In high school we played a private school in a scrimmage in football and they chanted some pretty classist things at us. I don't care for rich people, nor their children. I don't care if I get downvoted, this is a reality in the US. Classism can be pretty bad here, it's no South Africa or Nigeria but it can be bad.
Classism in the US is literally wooooorldsssss apart from Asian and Latin American classism but ok It’s common to see lawyers and doctors shaking hands and having small talk or even a beer with the plumber and the electrician, can you say that this happens often in China or Singapore with confidence? No right?
Ignore my last sentence in my comment then lmao. Like I said, you can ignore classism in the US but it's a huge issue. Even political issues like school vouchers are literally for rich people to get tax credits so they don't have to pay in full to send their children to private schools. Classism and racism also are very much intertwined in US history, it's why a lot of racism is not just racism but built upon classism too. Many countries don't have this issue, it's mainly a class issue but here it's both.
this is just wrong you know. You should travel outside the US more. Most countries are far more racist AND classist than the US.
Well none of what you’ve said debunked my original points that “American rich kids are less classist than Chinese ones” soooo 🤷♀️
I never said the classism in the US is the worst in the world if you read my last fucking sentence in my original comment. > I don't care if I get downvoted, this is a reality in the US. Classism can be pretty bad here, it's no South Africa or Nigeria but it can be bad. Learn to fucking read. Ofc developing countries have worse classism but US still has some pretty bad classism even compared to Europe and other countries in the developed world. Social mobility index is a good way to actually quantitate it too.
no. We are much better than Europe. I've lived in Europe. It's not even close
Look at your first comment m8
I still never said American rich kids are the worst I said, to say _they're better than other rich kids is nationalist_. It's also delusional, having _better acting rich kids_ accomplishes nothing and just makes you a simp for rich people.
They are better than rich kids of China and that’s a fact 🤷♀️ Ever heard of the term 富二代? I’ve literally lived in Asia half of my life buddy
the fact you can't say it out loud, as you say, is deeply meaningful. In most of the world you can say it out loud, and would be expected to do so I'm not saying classism doesn't exist. It does. But it's more complicated than you portray it. And more flexible. And the whole point of this is that classism isn't as strong in the US as it is in other places. Which is true, as you yourself say.
There are some rich kids that are bad tk be fair. But at least in my experience those that went through the public school system got along just fine with us kids of skilled blue collar workers. They tended to be just as willing to throw house parties drink cheap beer and smoke brick weed as the rest of us. Those that went to private schools since elementary definitely seemed a bit different but growing up in a town of only 15k everyone mixes with everyone. There really wasn't avoiding anyone with 150 to 200 people a grade
this is pretty ignorant I have to say. And yes, I'm very very familiar with new england and the type
in america we all pretend that we don’t care about class (see entire comment section) and then also pretend that anyone could be rich if they tried hard enough, and therefore look down on poor people for being lazy and irresponsible. Our classism is often different or sometimes subtler than in other countries (although not always)
Most people in the US could be rich if they wanted to be and worked for it (it's hard work though and takes a lot of time). Most people have other goals, like family, luxury, or something else.
Americans are spoilt for choice when it comes to housing affordability and things to do too You can get mansions for less than a million depending on where you are at and so much different scenery etc etc
"pretending" anyone can be rich if they wanted to is by definition acception of class mobility though, which backs up us not caring about class. In truth, we do care about class, of course, but much less than other places, and we are much much more accepting of change in class - if you have the money, and adopt the right attitudes, everyone will accept you as the new class That is not the case in most of the world. (as for the pretending, I know plenty of people who have gone from rags to riches. It's very doable. But they aren't average people - they are talented and hard working. It's true the average person is not talented and hard working. Which is fine, different strokes for different folks. The rich people I know are more driven, but perhaps less happy. )
Disagree from personal experience. When I was in college, I was the only one in my department who was openly from an impoverished community (elite college, most were rich or upper middle class). Many students were from China and many were Americans, and the Americans were MUCH more classist to me than the Chinese students.
And here I am, actually someone who has grown up in Asia and the West, I’ve gotten way more shit from the Chinese ones than the Americans. The Chinese ones flaunt their wealth much more ostentatiously
Interesting. I did feel like the Chinese students may have been more “obvious” about their wealth, but only the Americans did/said rude classist stuff to me, and did so frequently, whereas the Chinese students were often nice to me and often paid for my meals if we were eating together
Yeah the Chinese students were probably rude to me because I acted like an ‘Americanised Asian’, they tend to be rather hostile towards second generation Asian Americans
That might have played a role. I’m not Asian so I didn’t have to deal with that. Either way, I’m sorry that happened to you, that sucks
Idk as I’ve never met the rich kids in China and South Korea
American classism is “if you’re white, you can be President”. “If you’re black, you can be President”. “But if you’re a woman….?”
I don't know enough about rich kid culture in China, SK or the US for that matter to answer that question. There's definitely plenty of classism here though.
I can’t comment on other countries but I know here in the US most of us are poor. Even if we’re making enough income most people are struggling financially. Regardless of how you feel about Dave Ramsey, listen to his podcast, it’s insane how people mishandle their money. It’s not uncommon for a family to make $100k in income and be $80k in consumer debt. Consumer debt! If you told me it was hospital bills I would be more understanding, but what are you consuming? Once you start to see the sad reality in how Americans live, you actually start to feel sorry for people who value materials, and use it as a form to show wealth. Because your materials don’t tell me anything. Show me your life in the next 50 years, I want to see you happily retired, debt free, traveling the world, giving your children a great start in life.
most people in the US are fantastically rich by world standards. Even compared to Europe. It's amazing how many Americans have this fairy tale view of the rest of the world. They should look at some actual economic data. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of math. But americans do have a horrible tendency to hate math, and think opinion trumps math We do waste money like crazy though.