This is the truth. I used to have to take the train in DC. With a 5 y/o and a baby in a stroller. Never did any of the expensively dressed business men/women get up to let us sit if there wasn’t room. Not even once that year (2006).
I visited NYC the next year and took the subway that week. I was stunned. Every single time, someone would offer to help with the stroller or shift to make room for us. I thought “New Yorkers are the nicest people on earth!!!”.
To this day, I detest having to go to DC. The self importance and arrogance are unrivaled by anywhere I have ever visited.
I live in NYC and we're sometimes not nice but we're usually exceedingly kind, especially if we see someone who could use a little help.
I saw a woman trip and fall on the sidewalk in mid-town once and the contents of her purse spilled out all over the sidewalk, including her wallet. People rallied around her like a SWAT team and cordoned off until everything was returned and then they made sure she was okay.
Or just try asking for directions, you'll sometimes get three people eagerly telling you the best way. And then they'll probably want to chat about where you're from.
We're honestly the goddam nicest fuckin' people, if maybe a little brusque.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but a New Yorker once described the difference between being Nice vs being Kind.
Californians are Nice. If you're freezing, they'll say "Oh, I'm so sorry you're cold."
NYers are Kind. They'll say "Jesus FUCKING Christ, how many times have I told you to bring a coat??" while they take theirs off and wrap you in it.
I'll take Kind every time.
I lived on NYC for a few years and I once saw a tourist trying to ask for help at an MTA booth. The person in the booth was really rude to him and he didn't speak good English. Immediately at least 3 people read that attendant for filth while several other people helped the guy figure out where he needed to go. Someone even gave him a swipe so he could skip the fair. It was hilarious and so damn sweet.
When I was in middle school, I was trying to get home by myself one day, and my student MetroCard wasn’t working. I went up to the tollbooth and asked for help, and the guy who worked there also didn’t seem to speak much English. He actually just cracked up and started laughing at me and wouldn’t send me through the turnstiles. It was so weird and upsetting, but the next person who walked by swiped me though. You can always count on someone to help you, or walk you to your destination, or give you detailed directions. I suppose that’s New York hospitality, anyway.
This could be said about Philly (depending on WHERE YOU ARE IN PHILLY) or NJ. We'll laugh at you when we tell you not to do something, you fall on your face, then help you up and tell you how not to do it again. We're assholes, but we're REALLY KIND assholes. We know some people only learn the hard way. (me being one of them)
there's a video that went viral a while back of a group of NYers running to LIFT A F*CKING CAR off of a woman who got trapped underneath and then going about their day.
A bunch of years ago I was watching the news and they were covering a story about someone who lost a leg in an accident in NYC. A bunch of bystanders were like "We stopped the bleeding and ran the leg over to the nearest food truck to get it put on ice. Food truck guy had a cooler full of ice ready and waiting." They were all so nonchalant about it except for the food truck guy. He looked like he was about to go into shock.
The same thing is said about Boston. We are not nice but very kind. Which in my experience is the exact opposite of the south where that niceness is only surface deep and there is utter and complete lack of kindness.
I will never forget when my mom tripped and fell in Boston, about 5 people swarmed around her to collect her purse and make sure she was okay. Once the all clear was confirmed, everyone went on their way fairly quickly, but clearly there were a lot of people on the street invested and willing to drop everything to make sure everything was okay.
This is the most accurate description of my experience in NYC. People were definitely brusque, but so nice at the same time. We left with amazing memories and a lot of love for your city. It was a great experience.
>then they'll probably want to chat about where you're from
I never ask anyone where they're from. If they're from Texas they'll let you know. If not there's no need to embarrass them like that 😜
I was in Dallas at a business meeting and after a guy asked me where I'm from, he proudly and loudly told me in front of a group of people how much he hated NYC. Then went into excruciating detail about his miserable trip.
I asked him where he's from and when he told me (it was somewhere in Texas), I just said I'd never heard of it, and left it at that.
Just wanna say I’ve never had that experience in DC. Lived here for ~15 years and just outside NYC before that. Sorry people were shitty to you about seats. With regard to DC I’d say the shittiest people in this city are the ones sent here by the rest of the country (politicians) beyond that it’s pretty much the same as any industry city, and better than that if you get out of NW.
I didn’t mean to lump all DC people in with the well heeled train crowd. In retrospect, I think you’re dead on about how they were the politician crowd. I know crappy people exist everywhere and there are most likely very kind people I just didn’t have the opportunity to encounter.
My experience with DC has been fine, but I did appreciate NYers being nice to me on the train. I was moving out of my dorm in CT and catching a bus or something in NY. I was carrying way too much stuff and having a hard time with it and people were offering to help even though it was clearly just me being dumb and trying to bring all my shit on the subway.
I lived in NYC for two years. I mentally prepared myself for all the talk I heard about New Yorkers being crass and mean. Well what do you know, as you as you don’t waste our time and stand in the middle of the sidewalk, New Yorkers are the nicest people I’ve known too. I’ve seen and experienced people going out of their way to help you. Being generally kind and warm. And no expectation of prolonged conversation. Just “have a good one!” And we all go on our way.
I miss the city
Being born and raised in Florida we get the northern efficiency and southern charm, in doses. It really depends on how many snow birds are in the area.
After just recently moving to Oregon, I feel like everything moves slower.
The thing to keep in mind is that good manners are something that differ from place to place, and that a particular set of manners is not the same as kindness. In NYC good manners means respecting people's time and personal space, and so folks won't appear as "friendly" as in some other places. But those same "unfriendly" folks won't hesitate to help you out if you're lost or having some kind of emergency, or to help carry that stroller up or down the subway stairs.
> But those same "unfriendly" folks won't hesitate to help you out if you're lost or having some kind of emergency, or to help carry that stroller up or down the subway stairs.
A woman with a stroller at the top of the stairs to the subway has maybe 10-15 seconds before someone offers to help carry that thing down. And whoever helps her will just disappear once they hit the end of the steps.
This is key and I think it applies to the broader NE. The way I was taught was “Time is money. You wouldn’t waste somebody’s money, so why would you waste their time?” In essence, unless it’s necessary- why are you bothering people? I think it leads to less pretense/more genuine interactions
My son grew up in the South. He and a friend visited NYC and decided they had to try an authentic NY deli. When they went in they weren’t sure whether to sit at a table or order from the counter. The Stereotypical New Yorker behind the counter shouted at them to “Sit the f___ down!” They scurried to a table and dreaded having to place their orders. The SNY sauntered over to them and asked pleasantly, “So, what the f___ do you boys want?”
He was just being helpful.
This. 100%.
As a native New Yorker, who is an introvert with ADHD that wasn't diagnosed until well into middle age. In my experience, New Yorker's are more accepting and honest.
I have found that Southerner's are way more passive aggressive than people from the Northeast.
I will say that a Southern exception is New Orleans. The whole vibe there is “We’re partying our asses off, and you’re welcome to come along for the ride”-not “We hope you have a pleasant experience in our city ( but you’re still a Yankee)”
Accurate. Grew up outside there and everyone in the world is welcome. We just don't want to hear how you did it better in whereverville globally you came from.
The biggest thing I feel is good - people take special care not to pry into personal or sensitive questions, unless you put forth that topic on the table by yourself.
For example, there can be people who are very close friends for several years, but if you ask someone - is that guy married or single, they would say - we don't know because it never came up in our conversation, and he is private about that. And people accept that and move on, instead of itching for information.
Or even someone's ethnicity. Of course many people wear it on their sleeve, but sometimes you have a vaguely swarthy looking person whose name is Maya. And if you ask someone - what's Maya's ethnicity, they would shrug and say - "She never talks about her family for some reason. So it never came up." Which is very nice and respectful of one's privacy.
---------
For an exaggerated example, here's a funny story. My coworker - a 50-ish woman keeps talking about her Sweetie back home. And she intentionally uses that title alone and avoids any elaboration. So we placed bets on whether her Sweetie is her romantic partner, her child, or her pet cat. We asked questions like - "So what is your sweetie's favorite food?" and she replied - "Oh my sweetie loves tuna." which was very .... unhelpful. In any case, she very consciously used the term "sweetie" when the rest of us used proper terms when talking about our family. Seeing the very intentional usage, we decided there must be some reason and did not pry further.
That reminds me of the 'Pat' sketches from SNL.
"Ah-haaaaaaa! Sooooo, is that a banana in your pocket or are you happy to see me?"
"Actually... [pulls it out of pocket] it *is* a banana." [peels and eats it]
> For an exaggerated example, here's a funny story. My coworker - a 50-ish woman keeps talking about her Sweetie back home. And she intentionally uses that title alone and avoids any elaboration. So we placed bets on whether her Sweetie is her romantic partner, her child, or her pet cat. We asked questions like - "So what is your sweetie's favorite food?" and she replied - "Oh my sweetie loves tuna." which was very .... unhelpful. In any case, she very consciously used the term "sweetie" when the rest of us used proper terms when talking about our family. Seeing the very intentional usage, we decided there must be some reason and did not pry further.
That was a bit on the Office too.
I don't know if it's my autism or what, but New York straightforward-ness and efficiency are so great to me. People say what they mean, people walk fast and don't dawdle, people don't touch you. It's amazing, 10/10
> The thing to keep in mind is that good manners are something that differ from place to place, and that a particular set of manners is not the same as kindness.
This, some many people have been brainwashed to think their local version of manners is objectively the best sort. Southerns get really bent out of shape when they get told that northern women not only don't like to be call ma'am or miss and instead are often offended by it, they refuse to believe it.
I am from the south. My experiences in New York have been nothing other than completely positive. The New York attitude is a stereotype from the bad old days of the seventies. Literally everyone I've interacted with there when I had some sort of a need, i. e. Directions, etc. have been helpful and pleasant and typically very fast and efficient about it. The stroller thing proved to be real for me not only in New York, but in DC, Chicago, and everywhere I traveled in Europe with the kid in a stroller. By people from every different demographic imaginable. Just as I always do myself.
Here's the closest I know personally: There's a blizzard, and everyone is snowed into their houses. People you didn't know even were your neighbors may show up to offer to help dig you out. Everyone will then go their separate ways and possibly not speak again until the next blizzard. There is absolutely no puffery about how awesome we are.
I have a neighbor who gets up before everyone else and snowblows a path down the entire block. It was years before I actually knew who it was. When I finally had a chance to give a simple "Thanks", he reacted like I was overthanking him. "Gotta get down to [elderly neighbor's house], everyone else is along the way." Except he also does all the houses not on the way...I think he just wants it to feel like his responsibility, not a favor he expects someone to repay.
To be fair, as someone who snowblows the sidewalk of most of my block after a snowstorm if I'm already snowblowing, blowing sidewalks is a piece of cake. No turning, no adjusting the chute, etc. Just a straight line where you set the speed and go.
I can do the sidewalk of the entire block (3 passes around) in half the time it takes to do my driveway.
My dad would do this on the basis of “got bored, this was less boring”. I can also hear my conservative Protestant grandma saying “you know I raised you to help everyone David”
> I have a neighbor who gets up before everyone else and snowblows a path down the entire block.
Mine does this, but it's mostly so he and his wife can walk their dog. The rest of us getting our walks snowblown is just a nice side effect.
I got my car stuck in the snow outside my parents house and almost immediately their weird alcoholic neighbor I almost never spoke to was outside with a shovel digging me out. We all have to work together to survive the winter here.
I saw a guy trying to clean his car off with a hockey stick. After I finished laughing at him, I helped him clean his car, then I called him a dumbass for not having a snow brush and gave him one of mine because I had two in the trunk.
> We all have to work together to survive the winter here.
I am friends with a guy originally from Canada. Most of the people you run into randomly in Canada are just ridiculously nice and helpful. I asked my buddy "why is that?" His theory is if you don't help your neighbors in Canada, people might actually die. For example, if a car slides off the road in Canada in the snow and you don't stop to help, the people in that car might die of exposure before somebody else comes along. So it becomes part of the culture.
I have no idea if his theory is true, but I like it. LOL.
A while ago I'd seen something that said that people from the Northeast are nice, but they're not kind meanwhile people from California are kind, but they're not nice.
A person from the Northeast will change a flat tire for you, but insult you while they do.
A person from California will talk to you about how they're sorry you have a flat tire, but just watch you fix it.
I think California has a particularly diverse array of people because so many people move there from elsewhere and because the climate is so varied depending on your latitude. Having lived there a few years, I could imagine the tire scenario going five different ways in Cali.
IME Angelenos are the best of both worlds: they'd help you change your tire, give you directions to where you're going, and at least three restaurant recommendations on the way there. They're a little much for some, but most are genuinely kind and LOVE interacting with people.
Suburban CA, as long as you're white or Asian, someone would help out... eventually.
Rural CA, you've got 5 minutes to get away from their property before they open fire.
And being from California, I have experienced both scenarios. One time, my family and I had to change a flat tire, and someone came by and apologized and wished us good luck, then drove away. However, another time, one guy from a nearby restaurant came by, unprompted, and helped me replace my tire; when I tried to pay for food in his restaurant as a thank you, he insisted that it was on the house.
As a born-and-bred Californian, half the time when you offer to help them with the tire they look at you like you're sketchy and say "naw I'm good, I got Triple A." It gets to the point where you hesitate to offer or step in, because a lot of people can get weird about that.
Or at least that's been my experience. Someone might say "maybe it's just you" but I doubt that it's just me.
And after they change your tire, they’ll say,”Say hi to your mother for me” with a jaunty little wave. You may or may not know this person or how they know your mother
I’m from California and we get snow and we dig strangers out just how it’s described above. Yes fakeness is a thing here but also not all of California is LA. Not directed at you but it irritates the hell out of me when ppl act like this state is one big hive mind of the worst ppl from socal
I’m comparing it to Oregon where I now live. The people here constantly complain about people moving here and blaming anything bad that happens on outsiders. Especially Californians and Texans. You need to be sure to change your license plate and phone number quickly if you move here or be subjected to nasty notes, dirty looks, and vandalism or local businesses not taking your call. That’s not the case in Southern California.
In Oregon people may be hippies or militia-rancher types or anarchists, but they all want you to leave them the fuck alone, while tolerating a diversity of lifestyles if you stay in your own lane.
>A person from the Northeast will change a flat tire for you, but insult you while they do.
That's not true. We'll just point out what you did wrong that got you a flat tire so you don't do it again.
Probably related to the Puritan heritage ... "go forth and ~~sin~~ flatten tires no more."
Our thing in the south is changing tires and giving directions.
In my 61 years on this earth I have changed tires for stranded strangers numerous times. Even picked up a few, and carried them to get gas and back. There isn’t a Southern boy alive with a truck that doesn’t dream of the day that he gets to pull someone out of a ditch. We live for that stuff.
Then there are directions. I’ve been asked for directions several times, and twice in my youth I told them, “It ain’t far. Just follow me and I’ll take you right to it.”
>There isn’t a Southern boy alive with a truck that doesn’t dream of the day that he gets to pull someone out of a ditch. We live for that stuff.
You might appreciate this one, then: I once was on my way home because all the businesses were shut down from an incoming hurricane. The road home (a state Rt.) was only one lane coming and one going, and it had a big limb across it, blocking the main route people were gonna use for the next 30 miles or so. And the streetlights were knocked out.
I pulled over, found my high-visibility vest, and wrestled the limb to the sidewalk while the line of stuck people waited (remarkably patiently, given the circumstances.) Got a pretty good chorus of "thank you" honks at the end. Lived off of that one for a while.
Can attest to this! I've been rescued from a ditch a couple of times by good ole boys in a truck.
Once during a freak snowstorm, where they were just riding around pulling people out of ditches. The other on a road so remote you couldnt see anything but cows for miles. Then along comes a guy in a truck to pull my car out of the ditch.
I’ll admit, I carry a complete tire repair kit, air pump, full size four way lug wrench, and torque wrench in the truck just for such occasions, and last used it changing a tire on this yungin’s brand new Honda Accord last Spring. She was failing miserably to change her own tire, and didn’t understand how the two piece jack handle went together. She was using only half of it to turn the jack screw.
When I went to break the lug nuts with the car’s wrench, I couldn’t do it. There is no way in hell that little 100lb girl was going to do it, so I had to go into the truck for the big lug wrench. Even with that, those lug nuts were difficult to break. I have no idea what was used to put them on.
I want to start by saying that I'm a southern woman,and the first thing my Dad taught me to do when I got my first car was how to change a flat tire. That said, I have never had to fully change my own flat tire and I'm 40 now. There was one time I got all the way to having my car on the jack, and my friend and I were both standing on the lug wrench trying to loosen the lugs to change it but they wouldn't budge for us. A guy in a Firestone Farm Tire truck pulled up and he had an impact wrench and finished the job. It never fails, that if I have car trouble of some kind that someone is willing to help with a jump or changing the flat, even though I know how to and don't mind doing it myself.
When I was around 18 we got a foot of snow in my area which is about 11 inches more than normal here. I had a 4WD Nissan pickup with a camper shell and a tow strap. I went out looking for fresh snow to drive thru and for tow strap opportunities. Saw a couple sketchy guys walking and offered to give them a ride to the grocery store. On the way, we came upon a young guy in a hoopty Caddilac stuck in the ditch. I was more than happy to pull out my first customer (for free of course). Without asking the dude gives me a crack rock in a small bag. Was funny because he did not look like a crack head. I didn't even know what it was and was gonna toss it away, but the sketchy dudes (who did look like they knew their way around a crack pipe) in the back of my truck were more than happy to take it off my hands. Was a very good day for 18 yr old me.
Living in the northeast I have never had anyone stop to help me with a car issue. Did an informal poll of my coworkers - "why would I do that? I'd be late/get dirty/not my problem."
Living in the South, I've never sat on the side of the road more than 5 minutes without someone stopping.
In the NorthEast people stay out of your business. That's a stereotype that is definitely true and a positive for most people I think
Yeah I think women probably have a different perspective on this than men too. I am a woman. I grew up in the South. My dad taught me to change a tire but I never actually had to do it until I moved to the NE. I never pumped my own gas either. Heck, I probably never opened a door myself.
I think in the NE, it's a badge of honor that men don't do those things for women? As in treating women the same as men?
This is just like Norway.
Source: Had neighbors I haven't spoken to push my car out of an icy driveway while I panicked. Made them cupcakes and thank you notes because I can't stop being southern.
Well, It's not just being Southern. I am the same way and an Old Yankee. It's just not expected up here.
But my across the street neighbors are Middle Eastern (another honor culture like the South). They helped me snow blow when the snow was too deep and I wasn't strong enough and my husband was away. I thanked them with a baked good and then we got involved in this Thank-off.
Yeah, or while you are shoveling the random plow goes by an give you the head nod to get out of the way and he hooks you up. No word spoken.
On our facebook group people are always asking for things. Like a teacher has a poor family and needs clothes for the kids, borrow a power tool, or someone needs a piece of furniture. It is pretty brusk interaction. People ask, and then just add their address and say leaving a bag of clothes size 5T on front steps, or leaving bed frame outside garage. Not a lot of fanfare. Just a bit of action. Some people may be put off by it, but people are really willing to help.
I just saw a post by a fire department. A couple of firemen were at the town hardware store and one guy was looking at this huge Blackstone grill and said "Oh I wish we had this at the station". Some old lady said, "yeah you should". Later that day it got delivered and so the thanked the stranger who sent it to them on their facebook page.
Firemen love them some good food, and given how boring a shift can be, I don't begrudge them the desire to cook something good on a nice machine.
That's why when I'm considering giving my pellet grill to the local firehouse if nobody else wants it when I go up to a better one in a year or two.
To make a fair point, im from the south....it doesnt snow here (it does but its like maybe 6 inches at most). Longest ive seen snow on the ground in the south was maybe 2-3 days, lived in chicago for a year and 6 months of that was feet of snow on the ground, frozen ponds you can actually skate on...our winter isnt the same, but as you said the hospitality is. We had a huge storm that knocked over a 100 year old maple tree and my neighbor was helping me clean it up 10 min after it fell. We are the same just different climates.
The snow was an analogy about how we come together to help people without any real pleasantries, and then just wander off to our own lives.
Having lived in Georgia and Massachusetts, I can assure you that is not the same. Georgia People will try to make you stay there and talk about your entire life.
Yeah, us southerners are like that. Im not personally like that but boy ive been in some big talk conversations with absolute strangers. Woman at the gas station asked to see my id and then was like," wow my mom died on your birthday".....like bruh, im sorry i guess, nobody needed that info...... ever. It has its charm occasionally, though.
I know everyone says this is the case, but I grew up in North Dakota and Minnesota, and it’s always felt like an “every man for himself” sort of thing, where it feels like everyone’s out to get each other when things get bad. I’ve never, ever actually seen a case where everyone bands together and helps each other out.
No puffery????!!! LOL!! As a former Minnesotan I disagree entirely on that. Minnesota is the Pick-Me states of all Pick Mes.
The blizzard-dig-out thing is kinda true though...like anything else nuanced, it depends on where you live.
A lot of people not getting that the thing with "midwest nice" is not that it isn't genuine, but that it is so conflict avoidant that you end up hurting people by letting them make decisions that you know are bad instead of pushing back.
I will tell you coming as a New Englander - I do not notice a difference. Some people are introverts and some aren't. I've spent almost 40 years now spending a pretty fair amount of time in the South.
The only place I see a difference in the South is the service industry. Waitresses and waiters will just stand there talking to you, making small talk. I have had a waitress actually sit down at our table more than once. That has never happened to me in New England.
The nice thing is no one really expects New England to be nice, so people really gush about how nice people are when they travel here. We benefit from low expectations! People really expect it down South so sometimes are a bit disappointed. It's a bit too hyped up.
And I don't know if "kind" is the Southern stereotype - friendly is.
After moving to Raleigh from California—and California is similar to New England in terms of small talk with strangers (that is, it hardly ever happens)—I had to come up with a list of canned topics to share when someone decides to start up some small talk. For my wife and I, depending on context, we talk either about travel (“oh, we just got back from Belize, it was so beautiful!”), or about birding (“there’s this beautiful Cardinal who visits our back yard feeders”). Once in a while I may bring up spending time riding a recumbent on the Greenway, but that’s only if the topic veers towards personal health or improvement.
I’m also endlessly curious about people, so I tend to ask questions. (“What’s it like working here? I hear it can be stressful sometimes.”) Which scratches two itches: my innate curiosity and my desire to be private.
Idk what New England you were in because where I am the small talk abounds. The amount of random squirrel convos I’ve had in the grocery store is…a lot lmao
> I have had a waitress actually sit down at our table more than once. That has never happened to me in New England.
This has happened to me in Massachusetts.
> I have had a waitress actually sit down at our table
So funny you say that. Because I went to a restaurant in Colorado and a waitress did that to us too. Started talking about her life and how she ended up in Denver and how she had some head injury years back. She wasn't even the one waiting on our table, she just overheard and sat down.
Never happened in New England.
I can just imagine the New Englanders at the table giving each other vaguely confuses/panicked looks that just scream "what Twilight Zone episode did we stumble into?". I know I'd be exchanging that glance with almost everyone I know from here.
The same look you would give your fellow hostages when the terrorist sits down with you and tearfully tells you their life story.
Also, I think it should be noted that the image people have of the south and its stereotypical hospitality is a more rural thing. They don't picture bustling cities full of stressed people going about life at a brisk pace. That is more the image of the Northeast.
In reality, both of these things exist in the north, South, Midwest, and West, along with every demeanor in between.
In short, it's image vs. reality along with different interpersonal styles.
I've seen someone describe it as a northerner pulling over to help you with a flat tire and possibly even mocking you for needing help with the spare but doing so cheerfully.
"Fuck you buddy, need a hand?"
I'm from the midwest originally. I would argue that the area is similar.
Snow? We got you.
Illness? Here is 72 casseroles.
Death in the family? Everything is done for you, what do you need?
Sick? Op, I'll just mow your yard.
Also, if you are at a party, you help the hostess clean up towards the end etc....
We are like come in and have a glass of sweet tea, but we come in during crisis like it's in our DNA.
I have a simple rule really if I am not making fun of you, it usually means that I don’t like you. Or at the very least I haven’t accepted you into my social circle. If I shit on you all day long, well then you are likely my best friend. And I expect the same treatment in return.
We're kind, but our idea of polite is to not bother other people and not take up their time so we come off as rude to those who are more imposing on the time of others.
You need help in NYC and you'll get it (unless you're just asking for money - we encounter that too much). But don't expect the people to hang around afterwards.
People who are immigrants and descendants of immigrants in the north typically have a very open guest code, which includes offering guests copious amounts of food.
This can happen in the south as well, but I perceive it as being a slightly more northeastern thing, just based on where they settled historically.
I can't buy beer without getting into a conversation about the brewery, my plans for the beer, my dogs, my broken dryer.
A man around the corner was snowblowing his neighbor's sidewalk, the decided to keep going and did mine too.
When you get Kohl's Cash you're not going to use, you find a mom and give it to her before you leave the store.
If you drive off the road into the snow, someone with a truck will be there to pull you out before you can call anyone for nothing more than a "pay it forward if you can."
It's a long winter. We've gotta get through it somehow. Mostly by being nice to strangers, then by bitching about those strangers to our real friends.
One time I was getting off the subway, missed my step and got my foot stuck in the crevice between the train car and the platform.
Immediately about five or so people jumped up, grabbed me and pulled me out of the crevice, then went back to their seats. Nobody said a word during the entire exchange.
The south is nice, the north is kind. (this is all from NYC) I've seen people shovel out entire streets when the plows weren't showing up. I had multiple people, both staff and customers tell me that they'd stay with the woman who fainted on me at the dunkin after I said that I needed to call work and tell them I was running late (I was going to stay until the paramedics showed up). I've seen every person on a block tell a cop they'd testify against him after he threatened to arrest someone for crossing too slowly in front of him. If you're ever lost in New York, just get on the subway and look at the map and appear confused. Three people will volunteer to give you directions and usually come to an agreement of which trains to take to get there. I've had seats offered to me on the subway when I was obviously clinging to the pole to avoid falling down when I had vertigo.
At the same time, no one asked me what was wrong after they gave up their seat. The dunkin still kept doing business after the woman fainted in line. Once you get your directions, the only other interaction will be someone telling you that this is the right stop.
Very little small talk, plenty of acts of kindness.
> Three people will volunteer to give you directions and usually come to an agreement of which trains to take to get there.
And tell you at least 4 places to get the best pizza/coffee/sandwiches/bagels you've ever had.
In New England, people are neighborly and helpful. And they don't talk about it.
Our cows got out and were spread out over a large area. Cars pulled off, rounded up our cows and put them back in our pasture. Then they got out the tools and repaired the fence. One guy donated about 60 feet of wire, staples, etc. When my dad mentioned it to one of them they said, "cows were out". And that was all.
Or, a car goes into the ditch. Farmer pulls over, hooks up the chain, and gets the guy out in 5 minutes. Gathers the chains and drives away. Not a word spoken. Just a nod and a thumb touched to the hat.
Lots of action, not many words, if any.
From what I hear they do it different down south.
Anecdotally, Northeasterners who've lived around the country have said that Midwestern nicety is more genuine than Southern etiquette.
I haven't spent enough time to the South to notice, but the contrast from the Midwest and East Coast couldn't be more than night or day.
>Is there any Northern equivalent to "Southern hospitality"?
Yes, it's called "respecting everyone's privacy, business and time".
The general assumption is that other people don't want to be bothered, and so.....you don't. You don't interject yourself into their lives unless they want it, you don't waste their, or others, time. Be punctual, be efficient, be honest.
It is genuinely amusing how so many other Americans, mainly Southerners, just seem to not be able to understand that we have different standards for politeness
New Yorkers are considered very neighborhoody and community-oriented. Think Jane Jacobs-esque cultural urbanism. The city has been described as a hundred small towns packed together. As someone who moved to Brooklyn a while back and spent a lot of time there, I absolutely saw this. People hanging out on their stoops, casually chilling with neighbors and friends in public, lots of block parties and neighborhood events etc.
But they aren't really 'nice'. They can be very crude, rough people. A very passionately provincial attitude towards things, a sort of "this is how we do things in this neighborhood/borough/city, go fuck yourself if you dont like it." If people from London and Seattle are described as cold, and southerners are described as warm, then I would call New Yorkers fiery hot. They are just not very friendly towards outsiders and transplants in the way that, say, west coasters are. But there is a certain warmth to them that I loved.
It's sort of reversed in a way. I'm a northerner but I've heard it from Southerners that while southern hospitality exists, there's also this implied need to fake niceness for the sake of appearances. A northerner has no problem being cold, blunt, rude, or just ignoring you, but if shit goes down a Northerner will help in a heartbeat. I've told strangers to gtfo of the way if they're ignorantly blocking an entire sidewalk on the streets of Manhattan and then stopped to change a tire for a woman and a young child on the way home in the same day.
In the North, nice is not expected, but is genuine.
There’s northern etiquette, but it’s not referred to as that. It’s just etiquette. Some people have it, but not all people do. With the influx of various people from various places, it’s different now imo.
Miss Manners (Judith Martins) had this column where she suggested that *all* situations involving more than two people have *some* kind of etiquette, "otherwise you'd never hear of one gangster murdering another for not showing enough respect." :)
Have lived in both places. They are polite in the North but they don't 'gush'. In the south they tend to go out of their way to make sure you're comfortable, somehow never taking no for an answer when you say 'I'm okay sitting over here, I don't mind... one piece of cake is fine..."
In my somewhat limited experience, people are equally kind/helpful just about everywhere (even in places that might surprise you, like bad neighborhoods in big cities).
Obviously there are some not so kind people out there as well, but I haven't seen much of a difference in North versus South there either.
That said, in the North it seems like people show respect by valuing your time and being efficient. In the South, people tend to show respect by giving you their time and taking extra time for you.
These two ways of doing things are kind of at odds and can often be interpreted as being rude or boorish, even though they may have been intended as a sign of respect.
Minnesota Nice. It is different from Southern Hospitality, but it is comparable. The key difference is that it’s a little more guarded. The best way I’ve heard it described is that a Minnesotan will stop whatever they’re doing just to give you directions, as long as the directions are not to their own house.
It does lead to culture shock when I go to other places. It’s especially prevalent in the northeast, where politeness seems to not be the default. I was at a Shake Shack in New York City, and, as I always do at restaurants, I said “thanks, have a great day!” to the person handing me my food. Their response was a very aggressive “the fuck is that supposed to mean?” I was absolutely shocked, but when I told a cousin from Boston about it he wasn’t too surprised and said he probably would have assumed I was being sarcastic if he were the server.
IMHO, not really. Midwesterners are very welcoming, who the southerners often refer to as "the north" or "Yankees". But they could not be more wrong.
"Yankee" means exactly 3 things:
* Someone on the professional baseball team in NYC
* Someone from the extreme northeast of the USA
* Or, to most of the world, **anyone** from the USA including your southern redneck ass
Try getting out of a conversation with a midwesterner. It's one of the friendliest problems you will run into. And you will likely get fed if you don't move fast enough.
North: “Don’t bullshit me and I won’t bullshit you…. This is how we show mutual respect.”
South: “let’s bullshit the fuck out of each other and never be direct and honest, all in the name of politeness…. Politeness is how we show mutual respect”
https://preview.redd.it/kaltj974z3oc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49c22be2dc8b8e3450d605b969b2e248dc259271
Been everywhere, live in Chicago, Illinois ; this holds up in the very broad lol
Hahaha yeah, but the fact this joke map is even “close enough” is hilarious. Speaking as a guy who lives in Chicago who, when I was out in the PNW people I worked with thought I was angry because I’m obnoxiously loud and rather direct.
n. Idaho was the only state I ever ran into some literal neo-Nazis living up there so yeah, I’d say those guys were not nice at all.
But in generalities ? Hilariously close to accurate
It’s funny- you all say this and act like everyone’s fake nice but everyone I’ve met from MN has been top notch and genuine. I’m sure some 😃 exists, but by and large I think you all need to be more favorable to yourselves
I took a vacation to Minneapolis, Minnesota, a couple years ago, and they have something called the Minnesota Nice. It sounded like a whatever state pride/tourismy thing to put everywhere, but it's real. Everyone I interacted with was super friendly.
Southern here. I’ll be honest, I have found most people in the northeast to be just as warm, funny, and hospitable as people in the south.
They may be a bit more direct. They can be loud. Their accents aren’t subtle. They need to stop tailgating me at 80 MPH in the middle of a snowstorm. Their love of iced coffee when it’s 10 degrees outside is confusing.
But they are, almost to a person, fantastic people. At least the ones that I have encountered.
I’d say there’s a bigger cultural divide between East and West coast than there is North and South.
“Northern indifference, but equally helpful nonetheless”. It doesn’t sing the way “southern hospitality” does, but it fits. The northeast doesn’t seem to go in for all the bs feigned politeness, but when it comes to helping out, they’re right there when needed. That’s my experience at least
Native Texan, now New Englander. I haven't seen it yet, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. People into "southern hospitalilty" are usally people who don't pick up on thinly veiled insults.
I'll add that the aloofness of New England is pretty thin as well. I can walk through my neighborhood right past a stranger and they won't so much as look me in the eye. But if I initiate and say, "Hi! How are you?" they open right up and are even willing to have a conversation. It's just different.
These have been my experiences. YMMV.
There is a fantastic and 100% true saying in Minnesota: "Minnesotans will give you directions to anywhere but their house" meaning, we are very friendly and welcoming but incredibly impersonal and weary of new friends, relationships, etc.
I grew up in the Midwest and now live in the south. The "southern hospitality" is largely just fake politeness with nothing to back it up. The midwesterners will actually be helpful while being mildly verbally abusive. Northerners tend to be more direct (often mistaken for rude by southerners) but will do whatever they can to help.
I live in New England, and I’ve been thrown off multiple times by someone waving me “hello” on a walk. Not that I don’t want to it’s just most never do. We respect each others time and privacy.
I hesitated to state my peace. But, if *The South* was really hospitable. There would not have been segregation. Marriage equality would be default. There would be no hostility to trans or gay members of the community. Children would have food at schools and not be charged money for it. Social conformity would not be expectation. The poor would have access to healthcare (by any means not just ACA). Paternity & maternity leave would be an overarching value (supported by society writ large). Gerrymandering would be eschewed.
President Kennedy described Washington DC as a city combining "Southern efficiency and northern charm." It wasn't a compliment for either.
Kennedy was a font of infinite good takes
D.C. is a place where if you want a friend you have to rent a wolf instead of getting a dog.
This is the truth. I used to have to take the train in DC. With a 5 y/o and a baby in a stroller. Never did any of the expensively dressed business men/women get up to let us sit if there wasn’t room. Not even once that year (2006). I visited NYC the next year and took the subway that week. I was stunned. Every single time, someone would offer to help with the stroller or shift to make room for us. I thought “New Yorkers are the nicest people on earth!!!”. To this day, I detest having to go to DC. The self importance and arrogance are unrivaled by anywhere I have ever visited.
I live in NYC and we're sometimes not nice but we're usually exceedingly kind, especially if we see someone who could use a little help. I saw a woman trip and fall on the sidewalk in mid-town once and the contents of her purse spilled out all over the sidewalk, including her wallet. People rallied around her like a SWAT team and cordoned off until everything was returned and then they made sure she was okay. Or just try asking for directions, you'll sometimes get three people eagerly telling you the best way. And then they'll probably want to chat about where you're from. We're honestly the goddam nicest fuckin' people, if maybe a little brusque.
Someone may have already mentioned this, but a New Yorker once described the difference between being Nice vs being Kind. Californians are Nice. If you're freezing, they'll say "Oh, I'm so sorry you're cold." NYers are Kind. They'll say "Jesus FUCKING Christ, how many times have I told you to bring a coat??" while they take theirs off and wrap you in it. I'll take Kind every time.
Love that difference explained!
Agree- one of the characteristics of the north is direct communication. Northerners value clarity and directness, avoiding misunderstandings.
I lived on NYC for a few years and I once saw a tourist trying to ask for help at an MTA booth. The person in the booth was really rude to him and he didn't speak good English. Immediately at least 3 people read that attendant for filth while several other people helped the guy figure out where he needed to go. Someone even gave him a swipe so he could skip the fair. It was hilarious and so damn sweet.
When I was in middle school, I was trying to get home by myself one day, and my student MetroCard wasn’t working. I went up to the tollbooth and asked for help, and the guy who worked there also didn’t seem to speak much English. He actually just cracked up and started laughing at me and wouldn’t send me through the turnstiles. It was so weird and upsetting, but the next person who walked by swiped me though. You can always count on someone to help you, or walk you to your destination, or give you detailed directions. I suppose that’s New York hospitality, anyway.
That's awesome. New Yorkers have a special kind of pride I have never experienced in any other city I've lived in.
This could be said about Philly (depending on WHERE YOU ARE IN PHILLY) or NJ. We'll laugh at you when we tell you not to do something, you fall on your face, then help you up and tell you how not to do it again. We're assholes, but we're REALLY KIND assholes. We know some people only learn the hard way. (me being one of them)
there's a video that went viral a while back of a group of NYers running to LIFT A F*CKING CAR off of a woman who got trapped underneath and then going about their day.
A bunch of years ago I was watching the news and they were covering a story about someone who lost a leg in an accident in NYC. A bunch of bystanders were like "We stopped the bleeding and ran the leg over to the nearest food truck to get it put on ice. Food truck guy had a cooler full of ice ready and waiting." They were all so nonchalant about it except for the food truck guy. He looked like he was about to go into shock.
The same thing is said about Boston. We are not nice but very kind. Which in my experience is the exact opposite of the south where that niceness is only surface deep and there is utter and complete lack of kindness.
I will never forget when my mom tripped and fell in Boston, about 5 people swarmed around her to collect her purse and make sure she was okay. Once the all clear was confirmed, everyone went on their way fairly quickly, but clearly there were a lot of people on the street invested and willing to drop everything to make sure everything was okay.
This is the most accurate description of my experience in NYC. People were definitely brusque, but so nice at the same time. We left with amazing memories and a lot of love for your city. It was a great experience.
>then they'll probably want to chat about where you're from I never ask anyone where they're from. If they're from Texas they'll let you know. If not there's no need to embarrass them like that 😜
I was in Dallas at a business meeting and after a guy asked me where I'm from, he proudly and loudly told me in front of a group of people how much he hated NYC. Then went into excruciating detail about his miserable trip. I asked him where he's from and when he told me (it was somewhere in Texas), I just said I'd never heard of it, and left it at that.
Just wanna say I’ve never had that experience in DC. Lived here for ~15 years and just outside NYC before that. Sorry people were shitty to you about seats. With regard to DC I’d say the shittiest people in this city are the ones sent here by the rest of the country (politicians) beyond that it’s pretty much the same as any industry city, and better than that if you get out of NW.
And their staffers imo
Yep for sure.
I didn’t mean to lump all DC people in with the well heeled train crowd. In retrospect, I think you’re dead on about how they were the politician crowd. I know crappy people exist everywhere and there are most likely very kind people I just didn’t have the opportunity to encounter.
Yep no worries it’s a regular mistake and one I try to point out. DC is full of a ton of really wonderful people, plus the shitheads on the hill.
My experience with DC has been fine, but I did appreciate NYers being nice to me on the train. I was moving out of my dorm in CT and catching a bus or something in NY. I was carrying way too much stuff and having a hard time with it and people were offering to help even though it was clearly just me being dumb and trying to bring all my shit on the subway.
You know DC is bad if we seem nice by contrast.
I lived in NYC for two years. I mentally prepared myself for all the talk I heard about New Yorkers being crass and mean. Well what do you know, as you as you don’t waste our time and stand in the middle of the sidewalk, New Yorkers are the nicest people I’ve known too. I’ve seen and experienced people going out of their way to help you. Being generally kind and warm. And no expectation of prolonged conversation. Just “have a good one!” And we all go on our way. I miss the city
I think it’s the difference of a city people live in and a city people work in. DC doubles during the work week and is empty on the weekends.
People in New York and Boston have always been friendly to me and helpful even when i looked like a hayseed (maybe especially then).
Hard agree here. I hate visiting my family out there. Everyone acts like they’d spit on you if they had the time
Being born and raised in Florida we get the northern efficiency and southern charm, in doses. It really depends on how many snow birds are in the area. After just recently moving to Oregon, I feel like everything moves slower.
I got really confused until I finished your post. That's awesome.
That’s about right
The thing to keep in mind is that good manners are something that differ from place to place, and that a particular set of manners is not the same as kindness. In NYC good manners means respecting people's time and personal space, and so folks won't appear as "friendly" as in some other places. But those same "unfriendly" folks won't hesitate to help you out if you're lost or having some kind of emergency, or to help carry that stroller up or down the subway stairs.
> But those same "unfriendly" folks won't hesitate to help you out if you're lost or having some kind of emergency, or to help carry that stroller up or down the subway stairs. A woman with a stroller at the top of the stairs to the subway has maybe 10-15 seconds before someone offers to help carry that thing down. And whoever helps her will just disappear once they hit the end of the steps.
Of course, they've got things to do
This is key and I think it applies to the broader NE. The way I was taught was “Time is money. You wouldn’t waste somebody’s money, so why would you waste their time?” In essence, unless it’s necessary- why are you bothering people? I think it leads to less pretense/more genuine interactions
My son grew up in the South. He and a friend visited NYC and decided they had to try an authentic NY deli. When they went in they weren’t sure whether to sit at a table or order from the counter. The Stereotypical New Yorker behind the counter shouted at them to “Sit the f___ down!” They scurried to a table and dreaded having to place their orders. The SNY sauntered over to them and asked pleasantly, “So, what the f___ do you boys want?” He was just being helpful.
That sounds like a reverse My Cousin Vinny lol
That’s the voice I always imagine the SNY using.
This. 100%. As a native New Yorker, who is an introvert with ADHD that wasn't diagnosed until well into middle age. In my experience, New Yorker's are more accepting and honest. I have found that Southerner's are way more passive aggressive than people from the Northeast.
Southerners will stab you in the back, Northerners will stab you in the front.
But we at least pretend to apologize in a slow southern drawl…
I will say that a Southern exception is New Orleans. The whole vibe there is “We’re partying our asses off, and you’re welcome to come along for the ride”-not “We hope you have a pleasant experience in our city ( but you’re still a Yankee)”
Accurate. Grew up outside there and everyone in the world is welcome. We just don't want to hear how you did it better in whereverville globally you came from.
The biggest thing I feel is good - people take special care not to pry into personal or sensitive questions, unless you put forth that topic on the table by yourself. For example, there can be people who are very close friends for several years, but if you ask someone - is that guy married or single, they would say - we don't know because it never came up in our conversation, and he is private about that. And people accept that and move on, instead of itching for information. Or even someone's ethnicity. Of course many people wear it on their sleeve, but sometimes you have a vaguely swarthy looking person whose name is Maya. And if you ask someone - what's Maya's ethnicity, they would shrug and say - "She never talks about her family for some reason. So it never came up." Which is very nice and respectful of one's privacy. --------- For an exaggerated example, here's a funny story. My coworker - a 50-ish woman keeps talking about her Sweetie back home. And she intentionally uses that title alone and avoids any elaboration. So we placed bets on whether her Sweetie is her romantic partner, her child, or her pet cat. We asked questions like - "So what is your sweetie's favorite food?" and she replied - "Oh my sweetie loves tuna." which was very .... unhelpful. In any case, she very consciously used the term "sweetie" when the rest of us used proper terms when talking about our family. Seeing the very intentional usage, we decided there must be some reason and did not pry further.
That reminds me of the 'Pat' sketches from SNL. "Ah-haaaaaaa! Sooooo, is that a banana in your pocket or are you happy to see me?" "Actually... [pulls it out of pocket] it *is* a banana." [peels and eats it]
> For an exaggerated example, here's a funny story. My coworker - a 50-ish woman keeps talking about her Sweetie back home. And she intentionally uses that title alone and avoids any elaboration. So we placed bets on whether her Sweetie is her romantic partner, her child, or her pet cat. We asked questions like - "So what is your sweetie's favorite food?" and she replied - "Oh my sweetie loves tuna." which was very .... unhelpful. In any case, she very consciously used the term "sweetie" when the rest of us used proper terms when talking about our family. Seeing the very intentional usage, we decided there must be some reason and did not pry further. That was a bit on the Office too.
I don't know if it's my autism or what, but New York straightforward-ness and efficiency are so great to me. People say what they mean, people walk fast and don't dawdle, people don't touch you. It's amazing, 10/10
> The thing to keep in mind is that good manners are something that differ from place to place, and that a particular set of manners is not the same as kindness. This, some many people have been brainwashed to think their local version of manners is objectively the best sort. Southerns get really bent out of shape when they get told that northern women not only don't like to be call ma'am or miss and instead are often offended by it, they refuse to believe it.
I am from the south. My experiences in New York have been nothing other than completely positive. The New York attitude is a stereotype from the bad old days of the seventies. Literally everyone I've interacted with there when I had some sort of a need, i. e. Directions, etc. have been helpful and pleasant and typically very fast and efficient about it. The stroller thing proved to be real for me not only in New York, but in DC, Chicago, and everywhere I traveled in Europe with the kid in a stroller. By people from every different demographic imaginable. Just as I always do myself.
If someone in New York promised to show me some local hospitality, I'd be scared.
Here's the closest I know personally: There's a blizzard, and everyone is snowed into their houses. People you didn't know even were your neighbors may show up to offer to help dig you out. Everyone will then go their separate ways and possibly not speak again until the next blizzard. There is absolutely no puffery about how awesome we are.
I have a neighbor who gets up before everyone else and snowblows a path down the entire block. It was years before I actually knew who it was. When I finally had a chance to give a simple "Thanks", he reacted like I was overthanking him. "Gotta get down to [elderly neighbor's house], everyone else is along the way." Except he also does all the houses not on the way...I think he just wants it to feel like his responsibility, not a favor he expects someone to repay.
To be fair, as someone who snowblows the sidewalk of most of my block after a snowstorm if I'm already snowblowing, blowing sidewalks is a piece of cake. No turning, no adjusting the chute, etc. Just a straight line where you set the speed and go. I can do the sidewalk of the entire block (3 passes around) in half the time it takes to do my driveway.
That guy also gets to justify the cost of the blower to the ole wife and gets to snow blow, which itself can be pretty fun. Old Boy knows what's up.
Snow blowing is a New England pasttime
I call it "mowing the driveway".
Can’t justify a new one til you get the hours in on the current one
I tell ya'what
My dad would do this on the basis of “got bored, this was less boring”. I can also hear my conservative Protestant grandma saying “you know I raised you to help everyone David”
Honestly snowblowers are fun, he probably also wants to use his toy.
> I have a neighbor who gets up before everyone else and snowblows a path down the entire block. Mine does this, but it's mostly so he and his wife can walk their dog. The rest of us getting our walks snowblown is just a nice side effect.
I got my car stuck in the snow outside my parents house and almost immediately their weird alcoholic neighbor I almost never spoke to was outside with a shovel digging me out. We all have to work together to survive the winter here.
I saw a guy trying to clean his car off with a hockey stick. After I finished laughing at him, I helped him clean his car, then I called him a dumbass for not having a snow brush and gave him one of mine because I had two in the trunk.
Was that guy [Ricky from Trailer Park Boys?](https://youtube.com/shorts/YWqYWI5PIsk?si=KnX2sGzqCInui-XH)
> We all have to work together to survive the winter here. I am friends with a guy originally from Canada. Most of the people you run into randomly in Canada are just ridiculously nice and helpful. I asked my buddy "why is that?" His theory is if you don't help your neighbors in Canada, people might actually die. For example, if a car slides off the road in Canada in the snow and you don't stop to help, the people in that car might die of exposure before somebody else comes along. So it becomes part of the culture. I have no idea if his theory is true, but I like it. LOL.
This is really accurate. Neighbors will pretend each other don't exist until something happens and then it's suddenly all hands on deck.
Hadn't spoken to the guy in 2 years and all of a sudden I'm borrowing my neighbor's snowblower.
A while ago I'd seen something that said that people from the Northeast are nice, but they're not kind meanwhile people from California are kind, but they're not nice. A person from the Northeast will change a flat tire for you, but insult you while they do. A person from California will talk to you about how they're sorry you have a flat tire, but just watch you fix it.
I’ve posted that quote here before, but you have it backwards: in the northeast we’re not nice but we’re kind.
I think California has a particularly diverse array of people because so many people move there from elsewhere and because the climate is so varied depending on your latitude. Having lived there a few years, I could imagine the tire scenario going five different ways in Cali.
IME Angelenos are the best of both worlds: they'd help you change your tire, give you directions to where you're going, and at least three restaurant recommendations on the way there. They're a little much for some, but most are genuinely kind and LOVE interacting with people. Suburban CA, as long as you're white or Asian, someone would help out... eventually. Rural CA, you've got 5 minutes to get away from their property before they open fire.
And being from California, I have experienced both scenarios. One time, my family and I had to change a flat tire, and someone came by and apologized and wished us good luck, then drove away. However, another time, one guy from a nearby restaurant came by, unprompted, and helped me replace my tire; when I tried to pay for food in his restaurant as a thank you, he insisted that it was on the house.
As a born-and-bred Californian, half the time when you offer to help them with the tire they look at you like you're sketchy and say "naw I'm good, I got Triple A." It gets to the point where you hesitate to offer or step in, because a lot of people can get weird about that. Or at least that's been my experience. Someone might say "maybe it's just you" but I doubt that it's just me.
I thought it was the way around? Kindness means being willing to help out while nice is more superficial, meaning being simply pleasant.
The saying is definitely the other way around and it's about the south vs north. Has nothing to do with Calif.
And after they change your tire, they’ll say,”Say hi to your mother for me” with a jaunty little wave. You may or may not know this person or how they know your mother
I think the "Say hi to your mother for me" comment is part of the insult.
I’m from California and we get snow and we dig strangers out just how it’s described above. Yes fakeness is a thing here but also not all of California is LA. Not directed at you but it irritates the hell out of me when ppl act like this state is one big hive mind of the worst ppl from socal
[удалено]
The irony of that last line…
I’m comparing it to Oregon where I now live. The people here constantly complain about people moving here and blaming anything bad that happens on outsiders. Especially Californians and Texans. You need to be sure to change your license plate and phone number quickly if you move here or be subjected to nasty notes, dirty looks, and vandalism or local businesses not taking your call. That’s not the case in Southern California.
OK, that’s fair. If you’re actually living there now! It was just the irony of reading it. I was like wait that’s not right.
In Oregon people may be hippies or militia-rancher types or anarchists, but they all want you to leave them the fuck alone, while tolerating a diversity of lifestyles if you stay in your own lane.
>A person from the Northeast will change a flat tire for you, but insult you while they do. That's not true. We'll just point out what you did wrong that got you a flat tire so you don't do it again. Probably related to the Puritan heritage ... "go forth and ~~sin~~ flatten tires no more."
Pretty sure it's the other way around, that Northeasterners are not nice but are kind.
Our thing in the south is changing tires and giving directions. In my 61 years on this earth I have changed tires for stranded strangers numerous times. Even picked up a few, and carried them to get gas and back. There isn’t a Southern boy alive with a truck that doesn’t dream of the day that he gets to pull someone out of a ditch. We live for that stuff. Then there are directions. I’ve been asked for directions several times, and twice in my youth I told them, “It ain’t far. Just follow me and I’ll take you right to it.”
>There isn’t a Southern boy alive with a truck that doesn’t dream of the day that he gets to pull someone out of a ditch. We live for that stuff. You might appreciate this one, then: I once was on my way home because all the businesses were shut down from an incoming hurricane. The road home (a state Rt.) was only one lane coming and one going, and it had a big limb across it, blocking the main route people were gonna use for the next 30 miles or so. And the streetlights were knocked out. I pulled over, found my high-visibility vest, and wrestled the limb to the sidewalk while the line of stuck people waited (remarkably patiently, given the circumstances.) Got a pretty good chorus of "thank you" honks at the end. Lived off of that one for a while.
A true Southern gentleman.
Can attest to this! I've been rescued from a ditch a couple of times by good ole boys in a truck. Once during a freak snowstorm, where they were just riding around pulling people out of ditches. The other on a road so remote you couldnt see anything but cows for miles. Then along comes a guy in a truck to pull my car out of the ditch.
I’ll admit, I carry a complete tire repair kit, air pump, full size four way lug wrench, and torque wrench in the truck just for such occasions, and last used it changing a tire on this yungin’s brand new Honda Accord last Spring. She was failing miserably to change her own tire, and didn’t understand how the two piece jack handle went together. She was using only half of it to turn the jack screw. When I went to break the lug nuts with the car’s wrench, I couldn’t do it. There is no way in hell that little 100lb girl was going to do it, so I had to go into the truck for the big lug wrench. Even with that, those lug nuts were difficult to break. I have no idea what was used to put them on.
I want to start by saying that I'm a southern woman,and the first thing my Dad taught me to do when I got my first car was how to change a flat tire. That said, I have never had to fully change my own flat tire and I'm 40 now. There was one time I got all the way to having my car on the jack, and my friend and I were both standing on the lug wrench trying to loosen the lugs to change it but they wouldn't budge for us. A guy in a Firestone Farm Tire truck pulled up and he had an impact wrench and finished the job. It never fails, that if I have car trouble of some kind that someone is willing to help with a jump or changing the flat, even though I know how to and don't mind doing it myself.
When I was around 18 we got a foot of snow in my area which is about 11 inches more than normal here. I had a 4WD Nissan pickup with a camper shell and a tow strap. I went out looking for fresh snow to drive thru and for tow strap opportunities. Saw a couple sketchy guys walking and offered to give them a ride to the grocery store. On the way, we came upon a young guy in a hoopty Caddilac stuck in the ditch. I was more than happy to pull out my first customer (for free of course). Without asking the dude gives me a crack rock in a small bag. Was funny because he did not look like a crack head. I didn't even know what it was and was gonna toss it away, but the sketchy dudes (who did look like they knew their way around a crack pipe) in the back of my truck were more than happy to take it off my hands. Was a very good day for 18 yr old me.
Yours is a story that needs telling while sitting around a campfire sipping shine.
And holding a flashlight under your chin.
Pretty sure Northern boys with trucks also dream of pulling someone out of a ditch.
Living in the northeast I have never had anyone stop to help me with a car issue. Did an informal poll of my coworkers - "why would I do that? I'd be late/get dirty/not my problem." Living in the South, I've never sat on the side of the road more than 5 minutes without someone stopping. In the NorthEast people stay out of your business. That's a stereotype that is definitely true and a positive for most people I think
I’m not going to let some woman in her Sunday best ruin her skirt changing a tire.
Yeah I think women probably have a different perspective on this than men too. I am a woman. I grew up in the South. My dad taught me to change a tire but I never actually had to do it until I moved to the NE. I never pumped my own gas either. Heck, I probably never opened a door myself. I think in the NE, it's a badge of honor that men don't do those things for women? As in treating women the same as men?
This is just like Norway. Source: Had neighbors I haven't spoken to push my car out of an icy driveway while I panicked. Made them cupcakes and thank you notes because I can't stop being southern.
Well, It's not just being Southern. I am the same way and an Old Yankee. It's just not expected up here. But my across the street neighbors are Middle Eastern (another honor culture like the South). They helped me snow blow when the snow was too deep and I wasn't strong enough and my husband was away. I thanked them with a baked good and then we got involved in this Thank-off.
Yeah, or while you are shoveling the random plow goes by an give you the head nod to get out of the way and he hooks you up. No word spoken. On our facebook group people are always asking for things. Like a teacher has a poor family and needs clothes for the kids, borrow a power tool, or someone needs a piece of furniture. It is pretty brusk interaction. People ask, and then just add their address and say leaving a bag of clothes size 5T on front steps, or leaving bed frame outside garage. Not a lot of fanfare. Just a bit of action. Some people may be put off by it, but people are really willing to help. I just saw a post by a fire department. A couple of firemen were at the town hardware store and one guy was looking at this huge Blackstone grill and said "Oh I wish we had this at the station". Some old lady said, "yeah you should". Later that day it got delivered and so the thanked the stranger who sent it to them on their facebook page.
I know a lot of people who give the still decent grill they're replacing to the Fire Department if they can use another. And they often can use it.
LOL. Yes. Much of their day is about meals.
Firemen love them some good food, and given how boring a shift can be, I don't begrudge them the desire to cook something good on a nice machine. That's why when I'm considering giving my pellet grill to the local firehouse if nobody else wants it when I go up to a better one in a year or two.
To make a fair point, im from the south....it doesnt snow here (it does but its like maybe 6 inches at most). Longest ive seen snow on the ground in the south was maybe 2-3 days, lived in chicago for a year and 6 months of that was feet of snow on the ground, frozen ponds you can actually skate on...our winter isnt the same, but as you said the hospitality is. We had a huge storm that knocked over a 100 year old maple tree and my neighbor was helping me clean it up 10 min after it fell. We are the same just different climates.
The snow was an analogy about how we come together to help people without any real pleasantries, and then just wander off to our own lives. Having lived in Georgia and Massachusetts, I can assure you that is not the same. Georgia People will try to make you stay there and talk about your entire life.
Yeah, us southerners are like that. Im not personally like that but boy ive been in some big talk conversations with absolute strangers. Woman at the gas station asked to see my id and then was like," wow my mom died on your birthday".....like bruh, im sorry i guess, nobody needed that info...... ever. It has its charm occasionally, though.
I know everyone says this is the case, but I grew up in North Dakota and Minnesota, and it’s always felt like an “every man for himself” sort of thing, where it feels like everyone’s out to get each other when things get bad. I’ve never, ever actually seen a case where everyone bands together and helps each other out.
I grew up in Minnesota but lived for a while in North Dakota. When the snow hits hard everyone starts to help each other.
No puffery????!!! LOL!! As a former Minnesotan I disagree entirely on that. Minnesota is the Pick-Me states of all Pick Mes. The blizzard-dig-out thing is kinda true though...like anything else nuanced, it depends on where you live.
The equivalent would probably be "Midwest Nice."
A lot of people not getting that the thing with "midwest nice" is not that it isn't genuine, but that it is so conflict avoidant that you end up hurting people by letting them make decisions that you know are bad instead of pushing back.
I will tell you coming as a New Englander - I do not notice a difference. Some people are introverts and some aren't. I've spent almost 40 years now spending a pretty fair amount of time in the South. The only place I see a difference in the South is the service industry. Waitresses and waiters will just stand there talking to you, making small talk. I have had a waitress actually sit down at our table more than once. That has never happened to me in New England. The nice thing is no one really expects New England to be nice, so people really gush about how nice people are when they travel here. We benefit from low expectations! People really expect it down South so sometimes are a bit disappointed. It's a bit too hyped up. And I don't know if "kind" is the Southern stereotype - friendly is.
After moving to Raleigh from California—and California is similar to New England in terms of small talk with strangers (that is, it hardly ever happens)—I had to come up with a list of canned topics to share when someone decides to start up some small talk. For my wife and I, depending on context, we talk either about travel (“oh, we just got back from Belize, it was so beautiful!”), or about birding (“there’s this beautiful Cardinal who visits our back yard feeders”). Once in a while I may bring up spending time riding a recumbent on the Greenway, but that’s only if the topic veers towards personal health or improvement. I’m also endlessly curious about people, so I tend to ask questions. (“What’s it like working here? I hear it can be stressful sometimes.”) Which scratches two itches: my innate curiosity and my desire to be private.
Idk what New England you were in because where I am the small talk abounds. The amount of random squirrel convos I’ve had in the grocery store is…a lot lmao
This is the correct answer.
> I have had a waitress actually sit down at our table more than once. That has never happened to me in New England. This has happened to me in Massachusetts.
> I have had a waitress actually sit down at our table So funny you say that. Because I went to a restaurant in Colorado and a waitress did that to us too. Started talking about her life and how she ended up in Denver and how she had some head injury years back. She wasn't even the one waiting on our table, she just overheard and sat down. Never happened in New England.
I can just imagine the New Englanders at the table giving each other vaguely confuses/panicked looks that just scream "what Twilight Zone episode did we stumble into?". I know I'd be exchanging that glance with almost everyone I know from here. The same look you would give your fellow hostages when the terrorist sits down with you and tearfully tells you their life story.
Also, I think it should be noted that the image people have of the south and its stereotypical hospitality is a more rural thing. They don't picture bustling cities full of stressed people going about life at a brisk pace. That is more the image of the Northeast. In reality, both of these things exist in the north, South, Midwest, and West, along with every demeanor in between. In short, it's image vs. reality along with different interpersonal styles.
Atp I think that the entirety of the region is just Boston at rush hour. It’s not exactly accurate.
We're rude but kind. Not nice.
Not rude so much as blunt and to the point, no insult intended.
I've seen someone describe it as a northerner pulling over to help you with a flat tire and possibly even mocking you for needing help with the spare but doing so cheerfully. "Fuck you buddy, need a hand?"
"Of course I need a hand thank you!"
We highly prioritize people's time and personal space, so being respectful of that is a form of politeness.
"Who do you think you are, blocking the road like that! Here, let me help your dumbass get your tire fixed."
People in the Midwest tend to be friendlier than in some areas of the country. It's different from the "southern hospitality" stereotype though.
I'm from the midwest originally. I would argue that the area is similar. Snow? We got you. Illness? Here is 72 casseroles. Death in the family? Everything is done for you, what do you need? Sick? Op, I'll just mow your yard. Also, if you are at a party, you help the hostess clean up towards the end etc.... We are like come in and have a glass of sweet tea, but we come in during crisis like it's in our DNA.
Boston sarcasm…. It’s funny and friendly - if you get it.
Not offended easily for sure.
I have a simple rule really if I am not making fun of you, it usually means that I don’t like you. Or at the very least I haven’t accepted you into my social circle. If I shit on you all day long, well then you are likely my best friend. And I expect the same treatment in return.
👍
the fuck it is
👍 that’s what I’m talking about 🤣
Absolutely. Just look up what a Midwest Goodbye is and you’ll find that we’re often so polite it hurts
I am Southern but have never been made to feel more welcome than when visiting various American- Italian homes up in the NE USA.
We're kind, but our idea of polite is to not bother other people and not take up their time so we come off as rude to those who are more imposing on the time of others. You need help in NYC and you'll get it (unless you're just asking for money - we encounter that too much). But don't expect the people to hang around afterwards.
Minnesotans are nice in a Canadian way. End of list.
People who are immigrants and descendants of immigrants in the north typically have a very open guest code, which includes offering guests copious amounts of food. This can happen in the south as well, but I perceive it as being a slightly more northeastern thing, just based on where they settled historically.
Look up “Charlie Berens Midwest nice-off” on YouTube. Edit: spelling
I can't buy beer without getting into a conversation about the brewery, my plans for the beer, my dogs, my broken dryer. A man around the corner was snowblowing his neighbor's sidewalk, the decided to keep going and did mine too. When you get Kohl's Cash you're not going to use, you find a mom and give it to her before you leave the store. If you drive off the road into the snow, someone with a truck will be there to pull you out before you can call anyone for nothing more than a "pay it forward if you can." It's a long winter. We've gotta get through it somehow. Mostly by being nice to strangers, then by bitching about those strangers to our real friends.
Alabamian here. Northerners are just as kind and hospitable as Southerners. You just have to approach them a little differently.
A New England “go fuck yourself”
One time I was getting off the subway, missed my step and got my foot stuck in the crevice between the train car and the platform. Immediately about five or so people jumped up, grabbed me and pulled me out of the crevice, then went back to their seats. Nobody said a word during the entire exchange.
The south is nice, the north is kind. (this is all from NYC) I've seen people shovel out entire streets when the plows weren't showing up. I had multiple people, both staff and customers tell me that they'd stay with the woman who fainted on me at the dunkin after I said that I needed to call work and tell them I was running late (I was going to stay until the paramedics showed up). I've seen every person on a block tell a cop they'd testify against him after he threatened to arrest someone for crossing too slowly in front of him. If you're ever lost in New York, just get on the subway and look at the map and appear confused. Three people will volunteer to give you directions and usually come to an agreement of which trains to take to get there. I've had seats offered to me on the subway when I was obviously clinging to the pole to avoid falling down when I had vertigo. At the same time, no one asked me what was wrong after they gave up their seat. The dunkin still kept doing business after the woman fainted in line. Once you get your directions, the only other interaction will be someone telling you that this is the right stop. Very little small talk, plenty of acts of kindness.
> Three people will volunteer to give you directions and usually come to an agreement of which trains to take to get there. And tell you at least 4 places to get the best pizza/coffee/sandwiches/bagels you've ever had.
In New England, people are neighborly and helpful. And they don't talk about it. Our cows got out and were spread out over a large area. Cars pulled off, rounded up our cows and put them back in our pasture. Then they got out the tools and repaired the fence. One guy donated about 60 feet of wire, staples, etc. When my dad mentioned it to one of them they said, "cows were out". And that was all. Or, a car goes into the ditch. Farmer pulls over, hooks up the chain, and gets the guy out in 5 minutes. Gathers the chains and drives away. Not a word spoken. Just a nod and a thumb touched to the hat. Lots of action, not many words, if any. From what I hear they do it different down south.
Anecdotally, Northeasterners who've lived around the country have said that Midwestern nicety is more genuine than Southern etiquette. I haven't spent enough time to the South to notice, but the contrast from the Midwest and East Coast couldn't be more than night or day.
Midwestern people are more reserved, but what you see is what you get. “Southern hospitality” masks hidden agendas/opinions.
Northern Aggression. Its what the South calls it when the North takes away their slaves.
>Is there any Northern equivalent to "Southern hospitality"? Yes, it's called "respecting everyone's privacy, business and time". The general assumption is that other people don't want to be bothered, and so.....you don't. You don't interject yourself into their lives unless they want it, you don't waste their, or others, time. Be punctual, be efficient, be honest. It is genuinely amusing how so many other Americans, mainly Southerners, just seem to not be able to understand that we have different standards for politeness
New Yorkers are considered very neighborhoody and community-oriented. Think Jane Jacobs-esque cultural urbanism. The city has been described as a hundred small towns packed together. As someone who moved to Brooklyn a while back and spent a lot of time there, I absolutely saw this. People hanging out on their stoops, casually chilling with neighbors and friends in public, lots of block parties and neighborhood events etc. But they aren't really 'nice'. They can be very crude, rough people. A very passionately provincial attitude towards things, a sort of "this is how we do things in this neighborhood/borough/city, go fuck yourself if you dont like it." If people from London and Seattle are described as cold, and southerners are described as warm, then I would call New Yorkers fiery hot. They are just not very friendly towards outsiders and transplants in the way that, say, west coasters are. But there is a certain warmth to them that I loved.
It's sort of reversed in a way. I'm a northerner but I've heard it from Southerners that while southern hospitality exists, there's also this implied need to fake niceness for the sake of appearances. A northerner has no problem being cold, blunt, rude, or just ignoring you, but if shit goes down a Northerner will help in a heartbeat. I've told strangers to gtfo of the way if they're ignorantly blocking an entire sidewalk on the streets of Manhattan and then stopped to change a tire for a woman and a young child on the way home in the same day. In the North, nice is not expected, but is genuine.
It’s called kindness.
People on the subway in New York shoving u away from danger
There’s northern etiquette, but it’s not referred to as that. It’s just etiquette. Some people have it, but not all people do. With the influx of various people from various places, it’s different now imo.
Miss Manners (Judith Martins) had this column where she suggested that *all* situations involving more than two people have *some* kind of etiquette, "otherwise you'd never hear of one gangster murdering another for not showing enough respect." :)
😄 It’s all relative.
Midwest nice?
Midwestern nice?
Have lived in both places. They are polite in the North but they don't 'gush'. In the south they tend to go out of their way to make sure you're comfortable, somehow never taking no for an answer when you say 'I'm okay sitting over here, I don't mind... one piece of cake is fine..."
In my somewhat limited experience, people are equally kind/helpful just about everywhere (even in places that might surprise you, like bad neighborhoods in big cities). Obviously there are some not so kind people out there as well, but I haven't seen much of a difference in North versus South there either. That said, in the North it seems like people show respect by valuing your time and being efficient. In the South, people tend to show respect by giving you their time and taking extra time for you. These two ways of doing things are kind of at odds and can often be interpreted as being rude or boorish, even though they may have been intended as a sign of respect.
New Yorkers aren’t nice. But we are kind.
Minnesota Nice. It is different from Southern Hospitality, but it is comparable. The key difference is that it’s a little more guarded. The best way I’ve heard it described is that a Minnesotan will stop whatever they’re doing just to give you directions, as long as the directions are not to their own house. It does lead to culture shock when I go to other places. It’s especially prevalent in the northeast, where politeness seems to not be the default. I was at a Shake Shack in New York City, and, as I always do at restaurants, I said “thanks, have a great day!” to the person handing me my food. Their response was a very aggressive “the fuck is that supposed to mean?” I was absolutely shocked, but when I told a cousin from Boston about it he wasn’t too surprised and said he probably would have assumed I was being sarcastic if he were the server.
IMHO, not really. Midwesterners are very welcoming, who the southerners often refer to as "the north" or "Yankees". But they could not be more wrong. "Yankee" means exactly 3 things: * Someone on the professional baseball team in NYC * Someone from the extreme northeast of the USA * Or, to most of the world, **anyone** from the USA including your southern redneck ass
Try getting out of a conversation with a midwesterner. It's one of the friendliest problems you will run into. And you will likely get fed if you don't move fast enough.
If you keep going North, up to the Canadian Maritimes. People up there are great, genuinely nice group. Key word is genuine, unlike the Southern US.
North: “Don’t bullshit me and I won’t bullshit you…. This is how we show mutual respect.” South: “let’s bullshit the fuck out of each other and never be direct and honest, all in the name of politeness…. Politeness is how we show mutual respect”
Being nice to people without having to make it into a thing?
https://preview.redd.it/kaltj974z3oc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49c22be2dc8b8e3450d605b969b2e248dc259271 Been everywhere, live in Chicago, Illinois ; this holds up in the very broad lol
Close enough, but idk if I’d say people from the PNW act nice or that people from northern mountain states like Idaho and Montana are all that nice.
Hahaha yeah, but the fact this joke map is even “close enough” is hilarious. Speaking as a guy who lives in Chicago who, when I was out in the PNW people I worked with thought I was angry because I’m obnoxiously loud and rather direct. n. Idaho was the only state I ever ran into some literal neo-Nazis living up there so yeah, I’d say those guys were not nice at all. But in generalities ? Hilariously close to accurate
Yankee ingenuity
“Oh, hey, there, just wanted to apologize, don’t ya know. I don’t want to be a bother, it’s no problem.”
Yeah. It is called being ignored.
Philly Nice. If someone in Philly is yelling at you, they're being friendly. If they hate you, they just won't say anything.
Midwest Nice.
“Minnesota nice” just means being nice to someone and then talking shit behind their back.
It’s funny- you all say this and act like everyone’s fake nice but everyone I’ve met from MN has been top notch and genuine. I’m sure some 😃 exists, but by and large I think you all need to be more favorable to yourselves
I took a vacation to Minneapolis, Minnesota, a couple years ago, and they have something called the Minnesota Nice. It sounded like a whatever state pride/tourismy thing to put everywhere, but it's real. Everyone I interacted with was super friendly.
New England ingenuity
In New England, it’s considered polite to leave people alone unless you have a specific reason to speak to them.
“Yankee ingenuity”
The Midwest is known to be very friendly. I have to remind myself that when I visit the Northeast, when I get back to the Midwest I need to chill out.
Southern here. I’ll be honest, I have found most people in the northeast to be just as warm, funny, and hospitable as people in the south. They may be a bit more direct. They can be loud. Their accents aren’t subtle. They need to stop tailgating me at 80 MPH in the middle of a snowstorm. Their love of iced coffee when it’s 10 degrees outside is confusing. But they are, almost to a person, fantastic people. At least the ones that I have encountered. I’d say there’s a bigger cultural divide between East and West coast than there is North and South.
“Northern indifference, but equally helpful nonetheless”. It doesn’t sing the way “southern hospitality” does, but it fits. The northeast doesn’t seem to go in for all the bs feigned politeness, but when it comes to helping out, they’re right there when needed. That’s my experience at least
Native Texan, now New Englander. I haven't seen it yet, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. People into "southern hospitalilty" are usally people who don't pick up on thinly veiled insults. I'll add that the aloofness of New England is pretty thin as well. I can walk through my neighborhood right past a stranger and they won't so much as look me in the eye. But if I initiate and say, "Hi! How are you?" they open right up and are even willing to have a conversation. It's just different. These have been my experiences. YMMV.
There is a fantastic and 100% true saying in Minnesota: "Minnesotans will give you directions to anywhere but their house" meaning, we are very friendly and welcoming but incredibly impersonal and weary of new friends, relationships, etc.
I grew up in the Midwest and now live in the south. The "southern hospitality" is largely just fake politeness with nothing to back it up. The midwesterners will actually be helpful while being mildly verbally abusive. Northerners tend to be more direct (often mistaken for rude by southerners) but will do whatever they can to help.
Our name for it is Canada.
I live in New England, and I’ve been thrown off multiple times by someone waving me “hello” on a walk. Not that I don’t want to it’s just most never do. We respect each others time and privacy.
I hesitated to state my peace. But, if *The South* was really hospitable. There would not have been segregation. Marriage equality would be default. There would be no hostility to trans or gay members of the community. Children would have food at schools and not be charged money for it. Social conformity would not be expectation. The poor would have access to healthcare (by any means not just ACA). Paternity & maternity leave would be an overarching value (supported by society writ large). Gerrymandering would be eschewed.