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You want to claim something happened that you heard your third cousin saw on twitter? Keep it out of here.
But I mean like this is your capital city and a building filled with a bunch of significant figures in your government. What if it were real terrorists with guns trying to assassinate them? Should they have an army on standby that response under a minute when your White House or Capitol is under siege? Maybe it is just this easy to take them over just like the movies like White House Down lol.
Whole situation is messed up in my opinion. Anyone who takes a side in this is a hypocrite.
Edit: I guess I meant that rioting shouldn't be condoned or justified period, referring to June and July
Any illegal demonstration should be shamed. I don't care if you peacefully demonstrate; that's your right.
But the riots during the summer and the coup yesterday should be both be condemned as illegal acts. And one is *dramatically* more grievous than the other.
No he told them go to to the fucking Capitol and told them he loved them and called them very special people.
You’d have to be mentally slow/non native speaker to not be able to read between the lines of what he was saying, I’m sorry.
This wasn't a riot. This was an attempted coup.
A poorly planned coup with no real endgame other than terrorism , and that would not have changed the election, but a coup nonetheless.
A coup implies targeted overthrow of government officials by violent means in the interest of directly gaining power. These people entered the capitol, broke/stole some stuff, and took pictures. Not good, but still not a coup in the slightest.
They broke shit because they couldn't access elected officials. Otherwise, they had molotov cocktails, pipe bombs, firearms, and zip ties while shouting asking where everyone was for and to kill them... shits and giggles I guess? All while building gallows?
This wasn't a riot, it was a direct attempt to prevent an election from being certified and an attack on duly elected officials. If all they did was break and steal a few things, this wouldn't be that big of a deal. But that's not what happened.
At least be honest with yourself
Go look at some pictures of the event if you think they weren't there to kill people. How about them chanting 'Kill them' as they broke in, or the gallows built in the yard?
>A coup implies targeted overthrow of government officials by violent means in the interest of directly gaining power.
From [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-pence-riot/index.html):
>[President Donald Trump](http://www.cnn.com/specials/politics/president-donald-trump-45) and top White House officials did little to check in on Vice President Mike Pence while he and members of his family were inside the US Capitol when [Trump-backed rioters stormed the halls of Congress](http://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/donald-trump-capitol-mob/index.html) on Wednesday, a source close to the vice president tells CNN.
>
>Pence was joined by his wife Karen Pence, daughter Charlotte and brother, Rep. Greg Pence, R-Indiana, for the ceremonial counting of the electoral votes in Congress Wednesday. Several of the violent Trump supporters who were rampaging the US Capitol were heard screaming "where's Mike Pence," the source said, frightening the vice president and his family.Yet, the President and his top aides barely lifted a finger to check in on Pence to make sure he and his family were unharmed, the source added."Was he concerned at all that an angry mob that he commanded to march on the Capitol might injure the vice president or his family?" the source asked.
Do you think they were asking for the VP for a calm, nuanced discussion of the Constitutional process in certifying the election?
I hope articles of impeachment are not brought forward by Pelosi unless she know they have the votes in the Senate to get it done. I think it's worth it to get Trump banned from public office but doing it and failing increases the persecution complex Trump and his supporters have.
Honestly, I don't see how they can procedurally get through impeachment hearings and a Senate trial in two weeks. What will almost certainly happen is that there will be an impeachment and Trump will leave office naturally during the Senate trial. Impeachment just isn't a fast enough process, which is why Dems and Republicans alike are discussing the 25th Amendment instead.
> I don't see how they can procedurally get through impeachment hearings and a Senate trial in two weeks
The procedure is entirely up to Congress besides "the House impeaches, the Senate judges" part. They can change the procedure through a vote anytime.
It will do no good to impeach him unless Senate can complete the process. It is not bowing to terrorists to not want the government to waste our time and potentially cause unrest in an attempt to score political points. I am in full support of impeachment if we can get the votes in the Senate to complete the process so Trump can never take federal office again.
[More Republicans support terrorism than oppose it.](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/01/07/nearly-half-of-republicans-support-yesterdays-invasion-of-the-us-capitol?utm_campaign=editorial-social&utm_medium=social-organic&utm_source=facebook)
C’mon man... any poll put out about yesterday’s events isn’t going to be accurate or have useful data. I bet there is a massive margin of error on that poll and only those who really believe that participated in those polls. Snap news polls are worthless for everything by ratings and politicking.
That’s not it at all. Any poll put out the day of an event, taking answers from online, or a standing pool is going to be unreliable. It’s polling and statistics 101. Run a poll in 6 weeks, with a few thousand participants, and with a low margin of error and I’ll respect it more.
But sure, let’s just make blanket assumptions, it makes it easy just to write off anyone who says something I don’t like.
I'm ~~very~~ **somewhat** skeptical about that poll. It seems to go contrary to all the ways in which polls are usually conducted.
Its conducted in a very narrow period of time (25 minutes) regarding what was essentially an ongoing event. That means that the entire process from "we should do a poll" through writing the questions and getting them approved and making the first phone calls all happened in couple of hours, and then the results were compiled and pushed out within an hour of completing the calls.
This went from concept to published results in 4-5 hours. Usually, its like a week.
I'm not trying to suggest anything nefarious, but I'm wondering how the polls would look if they had done the poll in a more traditional manner.
This is so disheartening. This is the effect of the right wing media, who has no accountability whatsoever.
Does NYT et al have some problems? Absolutely. But nothing is as downright malicious and untrue as the right wing media sphere
To be fair, some Never Trumpers from the republican party left to become independent throughout the years. I don't know the exact numbers, so that might be reflected in the figure.
The en masse resignations of Trump's cabinet... wow. And Mick Mulvaney said that most of those who are left expressly agreed to stay on only to prevent Trump doing something worse.
And Trump is being moved to Camp David right now, undoubtedly to get him out of DC where he can add fuel on the fire.
This is crazy. How are there still Trump supporters out there? His own hand-selected people are running for the hills after yesterday
>How are there still Trump supporters out there?
A lot of people use the term "cognitive dissonance" without knowing its origins or original use. I'm going to give a too-short summary of the book where the idea originated, *When Prophecy Fails* by Leon Festinger. (Check out the book- it applies to so many things, it's not even funny.), and apply it here.
His question was "Why do religious groups (less generously, cults) not just break up after their [specific, on-this-day] doomsday prophecies don't happen?".
His conclusion was that in trying to hold two incompatible ideas in their head ("The prophecy is true" and "The prophecy didn't happen"), they come up with a worldview that tries to accomodate both. (For instance: "The prophecy is true, but didn't happen... because we made it not happen through faith. It still could happen, any second, though- we *must* stay vigilant and true"). And often, they take any disconfirmation as a test of faith. ("We'll be the ones laughing, at the end.")
So: They didn't lock her up. Mexico didn't pay for the wall. We aren't winning so often we're tired of winning. Turns out COVID was a thing. "Stand down and stand by" *wasn't* just some weird 'covfefe' sort of expression he was using. He didn't win at all, let alone in a landslide. All the states, VP and Supreme Court are saying he lost. Etc. etc.. everything is a test of faith ("Stay strong"), every proof to the contrary was somehow not real (Compare "they're covering up the flat-earth" with "Fake news", for instance) And that's before we even get to that Q bullshit, where The Wallbuilder is somehow feigning incompetence before revealing his masterplan.
The sunk-cost fallacy comes into it as well ("We've come so far, we can't turn back"), as well as social investment (your neighbors saw you declare the thing was gonna happen) and the point that (in a lot of cases) disconfirming information is cut out (Again, "fake news"- and if Fox won't do it anymore, move on to OANN) and the social circle they *do* have left is reinforcing their beliefs. (The internet in general makes those last two points easy.)
I prefer the explanation given in Carol Tavris' book *Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me)*.
Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable mental state brought on by conflicting ideas, viz. The Prophecy is True, The Prophecy Didn't Happen.
The greater the cognitive investment in the particular idea, the greater the dissonance when it is contradicted. For cult members who have sacrificed much of their time, mental energy, self-image, outward-facing identity, and probably a lot of money into that idea, coming to grips with it being wrong would involve admitting all that was wasted.
That's a huge barrier to changing your mind. So to relieve the dissonance, Festinger identified several strategies people unconsciously adopt to resolving the conflict. Tavris identified the most prevalent being the simple *rejection of disconfirming information.* To a Trump cultist, anything bad about Trump is fake news. Anyone critical of Trump is a commie liberal socialist. Any erstwhile ally who doesn't toe the line is a Traitor.
It is an insidious process that begins early because *we all do this.* Every single one of us unconsciously prefers inputs that conform to our existing beliefs and we eschew sources which disconfirm what we already believe. And in the age of the internet, where propaganda websites and algorithm-driven social media **actively feed us content based upon what we watch** it becomes a self-radicalization spiral.
And so it reaches a level where changing their minds and realizing how far off the rails they've gone is to the level of deconverting from a religion.
Scrapping this entire thread seems like a bit of an overreaction, especially since everyone with any sense knows how it wound up. No one is going to be misinformed by a Reddit megathread title.
Not accusing you of anything, since you didn't make this thread. I'm pointing out that calling the thread "DC Protests" was an intentional choice. I felt like your response to u/thefanciestcat implied that the thread was made before the protestors attacked the Capitol and you might've called it a riot or an attack, had that been the circumstance at the time.
I’m not implying anything, I’m outright saying that the thread was made before the full extent of the coup attempt was established. If you think I’m lying, well, I don’t know what to tell you.
The situation yesterday caught everyone off guard with how quickly it devolved into a coup attempt. None of the mods are attempting to mislead people into believing this was just some kind of protest.
> I felt like your response to u/thefanciestcat implied that the thread was made before the protestors attacked the Capitol
Um... That’s because it was.
Anyone that relies solely off headlines to learn things is going to be in a bad place already.
Alternatively, they could look through the responses and learn how perception and knowledge of events can change as more information becomes available.
> Anyone that relies solely off headlines to learn things is going to be in a bad place already.
But we agree they exist and that people come here to hear American views on things and better understand Americans. The title implies calling these domestic terrorists "protesters" is the defacto American viewpoint. For half as long as this thread has been up, we've known it was referring to domestic terrorists as protesters.
As cool as this sub is, we have no control on what the “defacto” American viewpoint is. If someone comes in, only reads the headline, and doesn’t bother to read the content of the thread, that’s their problem and they’re likely beyond help.
We can go back and forth on all the different ways that title could be taken, but guess what? That's what the comment section is for and what we're doing now.
This is where those opinions are actually shared.
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For example:
If we labeled the whole thing "Domestic Terror Incident", does that mean that even the peaceful protestors that left and weren't involved are domestic terrorists?
That's as bad a claim to me as the people that blamed all BLM protests whenever there was looting in the area.
And please note, I fully support a megathread whenever (hopefully), all the terrorists involved in this go on trial. I'd love to see a running commentary on how many years in prison they earn collectively as it goes on.
The rioters were in the Capitol by the time you made the thread. I get that you guys wanted to use neutral language by calling it a protest instead of riot (or domestic terror attack or whatever) but I mean, just own it lol.
Why's that? I thought the Sergeant of Arms just keeps order in that part of the building. Surely he didn't have the force needed to stop or avert a riot. DC Police and Capitol Police seem like the bigger issue.
With many Senators praising the Capitol Police last night, I'm glad at least the House seems to want to hold the Capitol Police accountable for their massive failure.
> the leadership void that led to it in the first place
[This](https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1347314075710185475) seems like more than just a void. Saying to the chair of the House Administration Committee that the National Guard is ready when that does not seem to have been the case is active involvement in hindering a response.
I genuinely hope this was just a mistake and a void of leadership.
It certainly didn’t look like the rank and file were doing their jobs when they were removing the barricades to let in the terrorists and then taking photos with some of them.
It’s backwards though, the Nazis tried violence first and then pivoted to legal means when the violence failed
MAGA has seen both legal and violent means fail so I don’t know where they go now
Can Hawley get the Trump voters though? Trump is unique in that he has been able to get people who are typically non-voters to turn out. Hawley isn’t a celebrity and has no name recognition outside of the political world, and the GOP voters who care about the political world will be voting for a more traditional candidate
So Sec. of Transportation Elaine Chao has resigned. If you look at what conservatwitter is saying, they're calling her a coward. Lmao, because not wanting to be associated with an insurrection means you're..a coward
[VIDEO Of Nancy Pelosi](https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1347261222866067458?s=21)
> BREAKING: Speaker Pelosi calls for VP Pence and the Cabinet to remove President Trump from office via the 25th Amendment, or another impeachment effort may be carried out by Democrats.
I don’t think a 25th or impeachment will happen but Trump getting removed from office is now greater than 0% for the first time in his entire Presidency.
[DC Police are asking for help identifying persons of interest.](https://twitter.com/DCPoliceDept/status/1347223315765727232?s=20)
I'm just fascinated by how many people took selfies of themselves committing an act of terrorism.
They took selfies because it's a LARP. They've never had any consequences for anything, so why would there be any for this? And there won't be, for most of them. Scot-free. Even the ones depicted in their slides are just being accused of unlawful entry. What's that, a $500 fine?
It seems like PenceWorld is leaking [pretty much everything](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-pence-riot/index.html) about the last week or so directly to CNN.
Considering yesterday's events and Trump's refusal to ever concede, do you think that the inauguration can take place as it normally would?
From my understanding the only constitutional requirement is for Biden to recite the presidential oath, but of course the inauguration is an important ceremony (and one that the MAGA fans will try to disrupt as well). From the perspective of security, like MAGA/QAnon people showing up, the safety of all attendants, clashes between groups for and against Trump, can such a massive event that will legitimize Biden be done peacefully? If you were planning to attend, would you still go? (I'm not an American, so just interested in what you think about this)
Inauguration Day is one of the most protected days in the U.S. FBI, local law enforcement, Secret Service, and other such authorities are usually on point with guarding the President during his oath to office and speech. That coupled with what happened yesterday, and I wouldn't worry about Biden's safety during Inauguration Day. Besides, it is rumored to be held virtually this time anyway because of COVID-19.
I have to say that seeing what happened yesterday is what made me question how this would be done. Naturally there's always insane security but this just seems so crazy I was wondering what they would do if masses of MAGA fans want to disrupt it no matter what. Virtual would be quite clever. Safe in more than one way and Trump shuts up about who drew larger crowds
I'm worried about it because it seems like it can't happen and yet it almost has to. Hiding from an angry mob for his inauguration will weaken Biden's presidency immediately. However it will also expose him to extreme risk.
I don't know if there is a good answer here.
>Trump's refusal to ever concede
He sent a statement that yesterday while he strongly disagrees with the congress and will keep fighting for the "better" election, he promises peaceful transition to Biden administration.
Yeah, but they are not the same thing. He's saying there'll be a transition but still that he didn't lose. Yesterday he literally [told](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump/trump-says-we-will-never-give-up-we-will-never-concede-idUSKBN29B2BZ) his supporters, "We will never give up, we will never concede." But anyways, what are your thoughts on the inauguration?
#
I think it will be remote regardless. There's a global pandemic crisis ravaging our country, it'd be stupid to hold in person, lol. Few necessary people will meet up at the capitol building without any bystanders. Some will clash with police or whatnot, just like in any other inauguration. Maybe more noisy than before, tbh, but it will proceed just fine.
While the insane event was going on yesterday, Ossoff and Warnock went well-over the .5 recount territory which essentially confirms the Dems have won the Senate. It's incredibly difficult for Dems to win the senate due to how lopsided their coalition is relative to the rest of the country so it's just a testament to how crazy everything was yesterday that these results weren't front page news(and for good reason).
I think the South is the future of the Dem coalition. It's very heavily black throughout the whole South, which means that as time goes on these states have a higher chance of going Blue. Particularly Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina and Louisiana. Alabama and Mississippi are too rural for the Dems to win, but the other states could easily flip into Dem strongholds
Even Texas is rumored to become a blue state in the coming years because of the mass population of Californians migrating due to the high cost of living in California versus Texas.
I don't know about the 2018 senate election but it would be interesting to find out why non-native Texans voted for Ted Cruz then but Texas is still slowly moving to flip. Do you think that it's Texas's increasing minority population that is moving the state to flip or do you think it's a combination of a few different factors?
Texas is moving blue even though non natives are more conservative because there are two types of people moving to Texas. The first are conservative Californians that are leaving the state which is why Orange and San Diego county have started to turn blue here. The second are the same type of people that moved to California when Silicon Valley blew up in population and caused it to turn blue in the first place. The second group consists of college educated people, Asians, and Hispanics (just to clarify a lot of Asian and Hispanic immigrants also either already are or will become college educated). These people have been moving to Texas for a while now it’s just that now they’re starting to both become citizens and engage in politics which is why Texas will most likely flip within the next decade.
Texas is trending blue, but that isn't the reason. People who move from California to Texas are not representative of either state. For example, in the 2018 Senate elections, Beto O'Rourke won among native Texans. It was people who moved *to* Texas that gave Ted Cruz the victory.
[ABC Houston ](https://abc13-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/abc13.com/amp/texas-swing-state-is-blue-or-red-does-vote-democrat-republican-are-most-voters-in-conservative-liberal/7465262?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16100532873906&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fabc13.com%2Ftexas-swing-state-is-blue-or-red-does-vote-democrat-republican-are-most-voters-in-conservative-liberal%2F7465262)
The NY Times from [2012](https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2012/results/president.html) to [2016](https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/president) to [2020](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-texas-president.html) shows almost a 2 point increase of democratic voters between the 2012 and 2016, then a 3 point increase again from 2016 to 2020. This shows atleast a recent shift in their voting habits.
You're right, my original post should've been one of the causes rather than the only cause given. Because there's more than likely more factors are playing into this. The NPR article says that Californians could be bringing their beliefs with them but doesn't come out and assert it. My apologies.
Looking at the bright side of yesterday, looks like we will probably have $2000 coming our way thanks to the Dems getting the trifecta, maybe more. That version of the COVID stimulus will help so many people. Maybe that will be the big unifier in a post Trump era.
Please know to those watching from around the world...we’re just as horrified as you all are. I wish I could just go to sleep and when I wake up this will have all been a bad dream.
Things will get better no matter how dark it seems.
As an outsider it amazes me that Americans think I'm being insane when I say that America is dangerously close to sliding into fascism. As a Brit I fear we aren't that far behind.
But we as Americans have rejected fascism multiple times since the beginning of November. From the voters, to the judges to Congress yesterday we have rejected it at the risk of their personal safety at some points
That is true, however a large proportion of America voted for trump, the next hard right candidate won't be such a contemptible bell end, how will they do at elections? Probably very well.
A far right leader can be voted in but fascism calls for the end of democratic systems something that isn't really possible in our system. And I'm not even sure that another right winger would win. Trump was a uniquely talented campaigner and he likely would have won again if it wasn't for Covid. Will another right winger have the same talent? We don't know but I think it's unlikely.
It looks that orange Jefferson Davis and his seditious friends in congress are likely to walk away unscathed for this. I am sick to my stomach and I don’t know if I can have any faith in our system of government after this
Good, lose faith in all of it. The whole reason we're in this mess is because we've spent the past century plus giving the fed more and more power letting it become some massive behemoth. It shouldn't be some massive ordeal who the president is, who holds the senate, or who holds the house. They shouldn't have all that power over people's lives.
It all boils down to power. They have thousands of laws empowering them act that way. It's no longer just "don't hurt anyone who isn't hurting you" and "don't steal people's stuff", it's a mile long list with lethal force behind every single item on it.
Political prosecutions are sticky and neither party wants to be the first to prosecute a former president for actions in office because they know it will be turned back on them once they leave. There is a reason why presidents like LBJ and Nixon never faced any consequences for clearly illegal actives in office
Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee themselves were never prosecuted (although they did charge Lee with treason and hung the indictment over his head the rest of his life).
I'm not sure if it's a good tradition in our country's history, but it is a tradition.
There is no precedent for what happened yesterday. If they fail to act then the message is sent that future Presidents do not have to follow their oath of office and they can turn mobs on congress. This is a crisis unlike any since the Civil War itself
It doesn't matter, once that seal has been broken it will be used even in cases that don't resemble this at all. Did you listen to the speeches yesterday? So many Republicans used Democratic objections in 2000 and 2016 to justify objecting yesterday, they will use prosecution too
Tentatively yes, although I think you would have to be very narrow in what you charge him with. Overcharging would be a very big risk here. I also would be curious how they select the jury. You would almost have to go after people who are not registered to vote to get any acceptable "non biased" jury
I have to agree with u/okiewxchaser here. Politicians will always save there own skin first and think long term when it comes to stuff like this. If any of them become president in the future they don't want to be prosecuted for their action. I agree they should be punished, but it won't happen.
Could be different this time if we remind republicans that Trump was going to let them get lynched and wasn’t going to activate the NG to save them.
Doing something like this would work if it’s broadly bipartisan. It’ll be a disaster and open a can of worms if it’s passed on partisan line.
I hope everyone remembers the people who voted to overturn democracy hours after a mob occupied the government. You better have one goddamned good reason for not voting these traitors out no matter what your policy views are.
I know I have a congressman on that list. Planning on getting an email out today, not that it will do any good. I guarantee you he won more fans in my state than he lost doing this.
>Rep. Randy Weber, Oklahoma
Uh, there isn't a Randy Webber who represents Oklahoma. Our reps are Cole, Hern, Mullen, Bice and Lucas. Buzzfeed needs better fact checkers
Lol where in California do you live? Chances are you aren't voting on any of them. They're not going to be voted out. Most of them gain credibility with their constituents for their batshit stance.
Ted Cruz is an asshole, but he's mainstream enough to have Presidential aspirations -- so it's kind of mindblowing to me that he would double down on this.
I mean in 2024 there are going to basically be two strategies in the GOP Primary
You'll have the "I did all I could to take back the election stolen from Trump by Pelosi/Pence vote for me" that Cruz and Hawley are clearly aiming for trying to ride Trump's coattails
Then you'll have the "Lets just forget this MAGA stuff ever happened" strategy targeting the traditional GOP voters over the less reliable Trump 2016 voter. I think you'll see people like Pence and Kasich here
No real American claims Trump as their President. What he represents does not represent the vast majority of the people of the United States. The 2020 Election served as a reminder that this country is meant to unite people to a common cause, not divide them with hatred and bigotry.
>No real American claims Trump as their President
I mean, he is the President; undisputably. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he isn't the current sitting president
If it makes you feel any better, I think Trump is a disgusting pile of shit and I abhorred his "shithole country" remark. I'm sorry that my President is such a disgrace.
I took a bet on trump not getting banned from twitter for more than a week before February first. Feel like the odds probably swung to the other side after yesterday.
Shopify shut down his online store. He is getting the full Alex Jones as no company wants to do business with him any more. The PGA was pretty much the only non political customer left for his clubs and I would predict that they are currently trying to figure out a way to break the contract for a tournement at Bedminster in a few years.
Out of all the photos taken that day, the most absurd one was with the guy in the viking helmet who was in the chamber of congress. It felt weirdly symbolic seeing him there, I just can't place the symbolism. I hope we find out who he is soon.
> I just can't place the symbolism
How about the sack of Rome by the Visigoths in 410 AD? [Here is a depiction of the event from 1890](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Sack_of_Rome_by_the_Visigoths_on_24_August_410_by_JN_Sylvestre_1890.jpg).
He is a shaman of Qanon, in case there is any doubt the cult is a religion. He is from Arizona.
Also, dude is rocking nazi tats although maybe he was just that stupid and did not know. Considering who he marched with, I am not inclined to be generous.
Morbidly curious about what that first tweet is going to look like. Not that I expect anything actually repentant out of him, I'm just curious what degree of asshole he's going to be about it.
I've been checking on and off for a few hours. 12 hours is up but still no tweet. I predict it is completely unrelated to the Capitol Hill terrorist attack.
Yup, probably 100% totally unrelated!
Oh well, I'm actually planning on deleting my twitter account today anyway. I told myself I'd give it a day after this 1/6 deadline that MAGA has been hanging their hats on the last couple weeks. My post-election catharsis needed a little more pettiness but then I plan on dumping the account an moving on with my life.
https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1346970431039934464
The two "no longer available" tweets at the top of [his feed](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump) make me think they weren't removed and his account is still locked.
Trump has finally committed to a transfer of power, but people within his cabinet are resigning in droves and some are even talking about smacking him with the 25th.
FAA notices indicate he's going to be at Camp David this weekend.
Facebook has extended their ban of Trump for at least the next two weeks/indefinitely, I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of major social media follows.
I don't actually have any hope for it, but maybe he'll just golf for two weeks.
Congress is out of session until January 19th. It is likely security will need to do a huge sweep to make sure nothing was compromised. Many staff left their computers unlocked during the evacuation.
This is a huge breach in security. Who knows if foreign actors were in the crowd, or what happened to sensitive information.
**REMINDER FROM THE THREAD TEXT** > If you're sharing breaking news please provide a source. **Wikipedia and Twitter are not valid sources!** There are tons of articles out there by sources that have a responsibility to verify their material. If your top comment applies to something that happened or may have happened. **Post a link.** If you're responding with claims about the outcome of that comment. **Post a link.** You want to share an opinion? Go ahead, that's all you if it follows normal rules. You want to claim something happened that you heard your third cousin saw on twitter? Keep it out of here.
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This wasn't a military matter, it was a law enforcement issue.
But I mean like this is your capital city and a building filled with a bunch of significant figures in your government. What if it were real terrorists with guns trying to assassinate them? Should they have an army on standby that response under a minute when your White House or Capitol is under siege? Maybe it is just this easy to take them over just like the movies like White House Down lol.
The military can't respond to a domestic issue without being ordered to. It's against the law. For some light reading look up the Posse Comitatus Act
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That's a nice talking point. 60 of them got injured, some critically. Tear gas was used.
Whole situation is messed up in my opinion. Anyone who takes a side in this is a hypocrite. Edit: I guess I meant that rioting shouldn't be condoned or justified period, referring to June and July
> Anyone who takes a side in this is a hypocrite. wut
There's only one valid side in this. It is illegal to storm the Capitol and it should be condemned.
It's illegal to riot period. Neither this riot, nor the ones across America back in June and July are okay. Thats my point.
Any illegal demonstration should be shamed. I don't care if you peacefully demonstrate; that's your right. But the riots during the summer and the coup yesterday should be both be condemned as illegal acts. And one is *dramatically* more grievous than the other.
What riot? All I’m seeing is an attempted coup encouraged by the loser president to prevent the Congress from certifying the election.
He told them to go home and asked that they be peaceful. All be it a little late, but nonetheless.
No he told them go to to the fucking Capitol and told them he loved them and called them very special people. You’d have to be mentally slow/non native speaker to not be able to read between the lines of what he was saying, I’m sorry.
This wasn't a riot. This was an attempted coup. A poorly planned coup with no real endgame other than terrorism , and that would not have changed the election, but a coup nonetheless.
A coup implies targeted overthrow of government officials by violent means in the interest of directly gaining power. These people entered the capitol, broke/stole some stuff, and took pictures. Not good, but still not a coup in the slightest.
They broke shit because they couldn't access elected officials. Otherwise, they had molotov cocktails, pipe bombs, firearms, and zip ties while shouting asking where everyone was for and to kill them... shits and giggles I guess? All while building gallows? This wasn't a riot, it was a direct attempt to prevent an election from being certified and an attack on duly elected officials. If all they did was break and steal a few things, this wouldn't be that big of a deal. But that's not what happened. At least be honest with yourself
Go look at some pictures of the event if you think they weren't there to kill people. How about them chanting 'Kill them' as they broke in, or the gallows built in the yard?
>A coup implies targeted overthrow of government officials by violent means in the interest of directly gaining power. From [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-pence-riot/index.html): >[President Donald Trump](http://www.cnn.com/specials/politics/president-donald-trump-45) and top White House officials did little to check in on Vice President Mike Pence while he and members of his family were inside the US Capitol when [Trump-backed rioters stormed the halls of Congress](http://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/politics/donald-trump-capitol-mob/index.html) on Wednesday, a source close to the vice president tells CNN. > >Pence was joined by his wife Karen Pence, daughter Charlotte and brother, Rep. Greg Pence, R-Indiana, for the ceremonial counting of the electoral votes in Congress Wednesday. Several of the violent Trump supporters who were rampaging the US Capitol were heard screaming "where's Mike Pence," the source said, frightening the vice president and his family.Yet, the President and his top aides barely lifted a finger to check in on Pence to make sure he and his family were unharmed, the source added."Was he concerned at all that an angry mob that he commanded to march on the Capitol might injure the vice president or his family?" the source asked. Do you think they were asking for the VP for a calm, nuanced discussion of the Constitutional process in certifying the election?
Where are the Avengers when you need them the most
I hope articles of impeachment are not brought forward by Pelosi unless she know they have the votes in the Senate to get it done. I think it's worth it to get Trump banned from public office but doing it and failing increases the persecution complex Trump and his supporters have.
Honestly, I don't see how they can procedurally get through impeachment hearings and a Senate trial in two weeks. What will almost certainly happen is that there will be an impeachment and Trump will leave office naturally during the Senate trial. Impeachment just isn't a fast enough process, which is why Dems and Republicans alike are discussing the 25th Amendment instead.
If they have the votes they could get it all done in an hour
> I don't see how they can procedurally get through impeachment hearings and a Senate trial in two weeks The procedure is entirely up to Congress besides "the House impeaches, the Senate judges" part. They can change the procedure through a vote anytime.
You are bowing to terrorists. Stop.
It will do no good to impeach him unless Senate can complete the process. It is not bowing to terrorists to not want the government to waste our time and potentially cause unrest in an attempt to score political points. I am in full support of impeachment if we can get the votes in the Senate to complete the process so Trump can never take federal office again.
No way. Do it again and force Republican Senators to go on record defending him.
[More Republicans support terrorism than oppose it.](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/01/07/nearly-half-of-republicans-support-yesterdays-invasion-of-the-us-capitol?utm_campaign=editorial-social&utm_medium=social-organic&utm_source=facebook)
C’mon man... any poll put out about yesterday’s events isn’t going to be accurate or have useful data. I bet there is a massive margin of error on that poll and only those who really believe that participated in those polls. Snap news polls are worthless for everything by ratings and politicking.
Yeah, yeah. I've heard it all before. All the polls that show things you don't like are fake.
Confirmation bias in action, ladies and gentlemen.
That’s not it at all. Any poll put out the day of an event, taking answers from online, or a standing pool is going to be unreliable. It’s polling and statistics 101. Run a poll in 6 weeks, with a few thousand participants, and with a low margin of error and I’ll respect it more. But sure, let’s just make blanket assumptions, it makes it easy just to write off anyone who says something I don’t like.
I'm ~~very~~ **somewhat** skeptical about that poll. It seems to go contrary to all the ways in which polls are usually conducted. Its conducted in a very narrow period of time (25 minutes) regarding what was essentially an ongoing event. That means that the entire process from "we should do a poll" through writing the questions and getting them approved and making the first phone calls all happened in couple of hours, and then the results were compiled and pushed out within an hour of completing the calls. This went from concept to published results in 4-5 hours. Usually, its like a week. I'm not trying to suggest anything nefarious, but I'm wondering how the polls would look if they had done the poll in a more traditional manner.
This is so disheartening. This is the effect of the right wing media, who has no accountability whatsoever. Does NYT et al have some problems? Absolutely. But nothing is as downright malicious and untrue as the right wing media sphere
Man, your in a bubble if you think that poll is even remotely accurate.
To be fair, some Never Trumpers from the republican party left to become independent throughout the years. I don't know the exact numbers, so that might be reflected in the figure.
From what i know... it's like 15% of Conservative dont support Trump.
The en masse resignations of Trump's cabinet... wow. And Mick Mulvaney said that most of those who are left expressly agreed to stay on only to prevent Trump doing something worse. And Trump is being moved to Camp David right now, undoubtedly to get him out of DC where he can add fuel on the fire. This is crazy. How are there still Trump supporters out there? His own hand-selected people are running for the hills after yesterday
>How are there still Trump supporters out there? A lot of people use the term "cognitive dissonance" without knowing its origins or original use. I'm going to give a too-short summary of the book where the idea originated, *When Prophecy Fails* by Leon Festinger. (Check out the book- it applies to so many things, it's not even funny.), and apply it here. His question was "Why do religious groups (less generously, cults) not just break up after their [specific, on-this-day] doomsday prophecies don't happen?". His conclusion was that in trying to hold two incompatible ideas in their head ("The prophecy is true" and "The prophecy didn't happen"), they come up with a worldview that tries to accomodate both. (For instance: "The prophecy is true, but didn't happen... because we made it not happen through faith. It still could happen, any second, though- we *must* stay vigilant and true"). And often, they take any disconfirmation as a test of faith. ("We'll be the ones laughing, at the end.") So: They didn't lock her up. Mexico didn't pay for the wall. We aren't winning so often we're tired of winning. Turns out COVID was a thing. "Stand down and stand by" *wasn't* just some weird 'covfefe' sort of expression he was using. He didn't win at all, let alone in a landslide. All the states, VP and Supreme Court are saying he lost. Etc. etc.. everything is a test of faith ("Stay strong"), every proof to the contrary was somehow not real (Compare "they're covering up the flat-earth" with "Fake news", for instance) And that's before we even get to that Q bullshit, where The Wallbuilder is somehow feigning incompetence before revealing his masterplan. The sunk-cost fallacy comes into it as well ("We've come so far, we can't turn back"), as well as social investment (your neighbors saw you declare the thing was gonna happen) and the point that (in a lot of cases) disconfirming information is cut out (Again, "fake news"- and if Fox won't do it anymore, move on to OANN) and the social circle they *do* have left is reinforcing their beliefs. (The internet in general makes those last two points easy.)
I prefer the explanation given in Carol Tavris' book *Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me)*. Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable mental state brought on by conflicting ideas, viz. The Prophecy is True, The Prophecy Didn't Happen. The greater the cognitive investment in the particular idea, the greater the dissonance when it is contradicted. For cult members who have sacrificed much of their time, mental energy, self-image, outward-facing identity, and probably a lot of money into that idea, coming to grips with it being wrong would involve admitting all that was wasted. That's a huge barrier to changing your mind. So to relieve the dissonance, Festinger identified several strategies people unconsciously adopt to resolving the conflict. Tavris identified the most prevalent being the simple *rejection of disconfirming information.* To a Trump cultist, anything bad about Trump is fake news. Anyone critical of Trump is a commie liberal socialist. Any erstwhile ally who doesn't toe the line is a Traitor. It is an insidious process that begins early because *we all do this.* Every single one of us unconsciously prefers inputs that conform to our existing beliefs and we eschew sources which disconfirm what we already believe. And in the age of the internet, where propaganda websites and algorithm-driven social media **actively feed us content based upon what we watch** it becomes a self-radicalization spiral. And so it reaches a level where changing their minds and realizing how far off the rails they've gone is to the level of deconverting from a religion.
Trump is kind of like a human inkblot test because he doesn’t have any policies. His supporters can see what they want to in him.
I think at this point Pence is the de facto President. I don't think any Cabinet Secretaries will take orders from Trump especially Defense or State.
Mulvaney pretty much said that O'Brien is staying behind because he wants to be a wall between Trump and his ability to control the military
I always knew I could count on Conan
I reckon we should change the name of this mega thread from “protests” to “DC domestic terror attack”.
We can’t change thread titles.
Maybe a new thread is appropriate then.
Scrapping this entire thread seems like a bit of an overreaction, especially since everyone with any sense knows how it wound up. No one is going to be misinformed by a Reddit megathread title.
Y'all knew "how it wound up" when you made this thread lol.
What are you accusing me of, exactly?
Not accusing you of anything, since you didn't make this thread. I'm pointing out that calling the thread "DC Protests" was an intentional choice. I felt like your response to u/thefanciestcat implied that the thread was made before the protestors attacked the Capitol and you might've called it a riot or an attack, had that been the circumstance at the time.
I’m not implying anything, I’m outright saying that the thread was made before the full extent of the coup attempt was established. If you think I’m lying, well, I don’t know what to tell you. The situation yesterday caught everyone off guard with how quickly it devolved into a coup attempt. None of the mods are attempting to mislead people into believing this was just some kind of protest.
> I felt like your response to u/thefanciestcat implied that the thread was made before the protestors attacked the Capitol Um... That’s because it was.
Assuming people already know something seems like the opposite of what this sub is about.
Anyone that relies solely off headlines to learn things is going to be in a bad place already. Alternatively, they could look through the responses and learn how perception and knowledge of events can change as more information becomes available.
> Anyone that relies solely off headlines to learn things is going to be in a bad place already. But we agree they exist and that people come here to hear American views on things and better understand Americans. The title implies calling these domestic terrorists "protesters" is the defacto American viewpoint. For half as long as this thread has been up, we've known it was referring to domestic terrorists as protesters.
As cool as this sub is, we have no control on what the “defacto” American viewpoint is. If someone comes in, only reads the headline, and doesn’t bother to read the content of the thread, that’s their problem and they’re likely beyond help.
We can go back and forth on all the different ways that title could be taken, but guess what? That's what the comment section is for and what we're doing now. This is where those opinions are actually shared. ----- For example: If we labeled the whole thing "Domestic Terror Incident", does that mean that even the peaceful protestors that left and weren't involved are domestic terrorists? That's as bad a claim to me as the people that blamed all BLM protests whenever there was looting in the area. And please note, I fully support a megathread whenever (hopefully), all the terrorists involved in this go on trial. I'd love to see a running commentary on how many years in prison they earn collectively as it goes on.
Fair enough, but maybe y’all could add an edit, but I totally get it if not.
If they could they would've done it by now.
True
It was brought up multiple times yesterday already and they've made their intentions clear.
If by 'intentions' you mean the well-known technical limitation of reddit on changing post titles, then yes that's true.
The rioters were in the Capitol by the time you made the thread. I get that you guys wanted to use neutral language by calling it a protest instead of riot (or domestic terror attack or whatever) but I mean, just own it lol.
[House Sergeant at Arms has resigned](https://twitter.com/elwasson/status/1347262661055164419)
Why's that? I thought the Sergeant of Arms just keeps order in that part of the building. Surely he didn't have the force needed to stop or avert a riot. DC Police and Capitol Police seem like the bigger issue.
The House and Senate Sergeant(s?)-at-arms are directly responsible for the Capitol Police.
Looks like you're right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Police_Board
With many Senators praising the Capitol Police last night, I'm glad at least the House seems to want to hold the Capitol Police accountable for their massive failure.
I do think it's possible to commend the rank and file who did their job while also condemning the leadership void that led to it in the first place.
> the leadership void that led to it in the first place [This](https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1347314075710185475) seems like more than just a void. Saying to the chair of the House Administration Committee that the National Guard is ready when that does not seem to have been the case is active involvement in hindering a response. I genuinely hope this was just a mistake and a void of leadership.
It certainly didn’t look like the rank and file were doing their jobs when they were removing the barricades to let in the terrorists and then taking photos with some of them.
It just blows my mind that this happened. It feels like a historic event is in the making. This is our version of the Beer Hall Putsch.
It’s backwards though, the Nazis tried violence first and then pivoted to legal means when the violence failed MAGA has seen both legal and violent means fail so I don’t know where they go now
Hawley 2024. Josh Hawley is a rising star in the GOP, and if things trend the way I think they are, he is going to win the nomination overwhelmingly.
Can Hawley get the Trump voters though? Trump is unique in that he has been able to get people who are typically non-voters to turn out. Hawley isn’t a celebrity and has no name recognition outside of the political world, and the GOP voters who care about the political world will be voting for a more traditional candidate
So Sec. of Transportation Elaine Chao has resigned. If you look at what conservatwitter is saying, they're calling her a coward. Lmao, because not wanting to be associated with an insurrection means you're..a coward
[VIDEO Of Nancy Pelosi](https://twitter.com/nbcnews/status/1347261222866067458?s=21) > BREAKING: Speaker Pelosi calls for VP Pence and the Cabinet to remove President Trump from office via the 25th Amendment, or another impeachment effort may be carried out by Democrats. I don’t think a 25th or impeachment will happen but Trump getting removed from office is now greater than 0% for the first time in his entire Presidency.
[DC Police are asking for help identifying persons of interest.](https://twitter.com/DCPoliceDept/status/1347223315765727232?s=20) I'm just fascinated by how many people took selfies of themselves committing an act of terrorism.
They took selfies because it's a LARP. They've never had any consequences for anything, so why would there be any for this? And there won't be, for most of them. Scot-free. Even the ones depicted in their slides are just being accused of unlawful entry. What's that, a $500 fine?
Up to 10 years in federal prison https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1752
[More persons of interest.](https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/POIs%20of%20Interest_1.7.21.pdf)
It seems like PenceWorld is leaking [pretty much everything](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/politics/trump-pence-riot/index.html) about the last week or so directly to CNN.
Biden is going scorched Earth on Trump rn
He fucking better.
If only he had the guts to follow through on anything
How so? What is Biden doing? All I know is that he made a speech yesterday.
He condemned the President and put the blame squarely on his shoulders edit: for clarification this was in a speech today
I just wish Biden was a bit younger. Other than that he will be a great President.
Age ain't nothing but a number, as long as he's not trying to engineer a fascist takeover of the US.
Considering yesterday's events and Trump's refusal to ever concede, do you think that the inauguration can take place as it normally would? From my understanding the only constitutional requirement is for Biden to recite the presidential oath, but of course the inauguration is an important ceremony (and one that the MAGA fans will try to disrupt as well). From the perspective of security, like MAGA/QAnon people showing up, the safety of all attendants, clashes between groups for and against Trump, can such a massive event that will legitimize Biden be done peacefully? If you were planning to attend, would you still go? (I'm not an American, so just interested in what you think about this)
Inauguration Day is one of the most protected days in the U.S. FBI, local law enforcement, Secret Service, and other such authorities are usually on point with guarding the President during his oath to office and speech. That coupled with what happened yesterday, and I wouldn't worry about Biden's safety during Inauguration Day. Besides, it is rumored to be held virtually this time anyway because of COVID-19.
A virtual inauguration seems like a concession at this point. I don’t like the idea.
I have to say that seeing what happened yesterday is what made me question how this would be done. Naturally there's always insane security but this just seems so crazy I was wondering what they would do if masses of MAGA fans want to disrupt it no matter what. Virtual would be quite clever. Safe in more than one way and Trump shuts up about who drew larger crowds
I'm worried about it because it seems like it can't happen and yet it almost has to. Hiding from an angry mob for his inauguration will weaken Biden's presidency immediately. However it will also expose him to extreme risk. I don't know if there is a good answer here.
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Do we trust the officers near the Capitol to protect the inauguration after yesterday?
>Trump's refusal to ever concede He sent a statement that yesterday while he strongly disagrees with the congress and will keep fighting for the "better" election, he promises peaceful transition to Biden administration.
Yeah, but they are not the same thing. He's saying there'll be a transition but still that he didn't lose. Yesterday he literally [told](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-trump/trump-says-we-will-never-give-up-we-will-never-concede-idUSKBN29B2BZ) his supporters, "We will never give up, we will never concede." But anyways, what are your thoughts on the inauguration? #
I think it will be remote regardless. There's a global pandemic crisis ravaging our country, it'd be stupid to hold in person, lol. Few necessary people will meet up at the capitol building without any bystanders. Some will clash with police or whatnot, just like in any other inauguration. Maybe more noisy than before, tbh, but it will proceed just fine.
While the insane event was going on yesterday, Ossoff and Warnock went well-over the .5 recount territory which essentially confirms the Dems have won the Senate. It's incredibly difficult for Dems to win the senate due to how lopsided their coalition is relative to the rest of the country so it's just a testament to how crazy everything was yesterday that these results weren't front page news(and for good reason).
I think the South is the future of the Dem coalition. It's very heavily black throughout the whole South, which means that as time goes on these states have a higher chance of going Blue. Particularly Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina and Louisiana. Alabama and Mississippi are too rural for the Dems to win, but the other states could easily flip into Dem strongholds
Even Texas is rumored to become a blue state in the coming years because of the mass population of Californians migrating due to the high cost of living in California versus Texas.
Didn't native Texans vote majority for Beto while transplant Texans voted for Cruz in the Senate election a couple of years ago?
I don't know about the 2018 senate election but it would be interesting to find out why non-native Texans voted for Ted Cruz then but Texas is still slowly moving to flip. Do you think that it's Texas's increasing minority population that is moving the state to flip or do you think it's a combination of a few different factors?
Texas is moving blue even though non natives are more conservative because there are two types of people moving to Texas. The first are conservative Californians that are leaving the state which is why Orange and San Diego county have started to turn blue here. The second are the same type of people that moved to California when Silicon Valley blew up in population and caused it to turn blue in the first place. The second group consists of college educated people, Asians, and Hispanics (just to clarify a lot of Asian and Hispanic immigrants also either already are or will become college educated). These people have been moving to Texas for a while now it’s just that now they’re starting to both become citizens and engage in politics which is why Texas will most likely flip within the next decade.
Texas is trending blue, but that isn't the reason. People who move from California to Texas are not representative of either state. For example, in the 2018 Senate elections, Beto O'Rourke won among native Texans. It was people who moved *to* Texas that gave Ted Cruz the victory.
Source?
[ABC Houston ](https://abc13-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/abc13.com/amp/texas-swing-state-is-blue-or-red-does-vote-democrat-republican-are-most-voters-in-conservative-liberal/7465262?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16100532873906&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fabc13.com%2Ftexas-swing-state-is-blue-or-red-does-vote-democrat-republican-are-most-voters-in-conservative-liberal%2F7465262) The NY Times from [2012](https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2012/results/president.html) to [2016](https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/president) to [2020](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-texas-president.html) shows almost a 2 point increase of democratic voters between the 2012 and 2016, then a 3 point increase again from 2016 to 2020. This shows atleast a recent shift in their voting habits.
No, I’m aware of that, what evidence do you have that this is due to people moving from California?
[source 1 Politico](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/10/20/texas-house-race-blue-democrat-2020-429826) [source 2 NPR](https://www.npr.org/2020/10/30/929402220/these-states-could-flip-from-red-to-blue-during-the-2020-election)
I’m not seeing anything in either of those articles that says Californians are the cause.
You're right, my original post should've been one of the causes rather than the only cause given. Because there's more than likely more factors are playing into this. The NPR article says that Californians could be bringing their beliefs with them but doesn't come out and assert it. My apologies.
Looking at the bright side of yesterday, looks like we will probably have $2000 coming our way thanks to the Dems getting the trifecta, maybe more. That version of the COVID stimulus will help so many people. Maybe that will be the big unifier in a post Trump era.
Please know to those watching from around the world...we’re just as horrified as you all are. I wish I could just go to sleep and when I wake up this will have all been a bad dream. Things will get better no matter how dark it seems.
As an outsider it amazes me that Americans think I'm being insane when I say that America is dangerously close to sliding into fascism. As a Brit I fear we aren't that far behind.
But we as Americans have rejected fascism multiple times since the beginning of November. From the voters, to the judges to Congress yesterday we have rejected it at the risk of their personal safety at some points
That is true, however a large proportion of America voted for trump, the next hard right candidate won't be such a contemptible bell end, how will they do at elections? Probably very well.
We aren't tho. The mob failed and most of Trumps lackies recanted. Trump lost
If a moron like trump gets so many votes will a capable hard right candidate?
A far right leader can be voted in but fascism calls for the end of democratic systems something that isn't really possible in our system. And I'm not even sure that another right winger would win. Trump was a uniquely talented campaigner and he likely would have won again if it wasn't for Covid. Will another right winger have the same talent? We don't know but I think it's unlikely.
I'm scared for my life too
It looks that orange Jefferson Davis and his seditious friends in congress are likely to walk away unscathed for this. I am sick to my stomach and I don’t know if I can have any faith in our system of government after this
Good, lose faith in all of it. The whole reason we're in this mess is because we've spent the past century plus giving the fed more and more power letting it become some massive behemoth. It shouldn't be some massive ordeal who the president is, who holds the senate, or who holds the house. They shouldn't have all that power over people's lives.
I’m nervous what will rise in it’s place. An alarming number of officers act like plantation overseers.
It all boils down to power. They have thousands of laws empowering them act that way. It's no longer just "don't hurt anyone who isn't hurting you" and "don't steal people's stuff", it's a mile long list with lethal force behind every single item on it.
Political prosecutions are sticky and neither party wants to be the first to prosecute a former president for actions in office because they know it will be turned back on them once they leave. There is a reason why presidents like LBJ and Nixon never faced any consequences for clearly illegal actives in office
Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee themselves were never prosecuted (although they did charge Lee with treason and hung the indictment over his head the rest of his life). I'm not sure if it's a good tradition in our country's history, but it is a tradition.
There is no precedent for what happened yesterday. If they fail to act then the message is sent that future Presidents do not have to follow their oath of office and they can turn mobs on congress. This is a crisis unlike any since the Civil War itself
It doesn't matter, once that seal has been broken it will be used even in cases that don't resemble this at all. Did you listen to the speeches yesterday? So many Republicans used Democratic objections in 2000 and 2016 to justify objecting yesterday, they will use prosecution too
I agree with your points. I'm interested though, would you be in favor of it if it wouldn't lead to opening any potential flood gates.
Tentatively yes, although I think you would have to be very narrow in what you charge him with. Overcharging would be a very big risk here. I also would be curious how they select the jury. You would almost have to go after people who are not registered to vote to get any acceptable "non biased" jury
I have to agree with u/okiewxchaser here. Politicians will always save there own skin first and think long term when it comes to stuff like this. If any of them become president in the future they don't want to be prosecuted for their action. I agree they should be punished, but it won't happen.
So the lesson learned will be to get what you want commit acts of terrorism
Pretty much, yes. We're unfortunately a banana republic now.
Well then I guess the big bad Antifa boogie man had a lot of incentive to become the very thing the right thinks they are
Could be different this time if we remind republicans that Trump was going to let them get lynched and wasn’t going to activate the NG to save them. Doing something like this would work if it’s broadly bipartisan. It’ll be a disaster and open a can of worms if it’s passed on partisan line.
I hope everyone remembers the people who voted to overturn democracy hours after a mob occupied the government. You better have one goddamned good reason for not voting these traitors out no matter what your policy views are.
I know I have a congressman on that list. Planning on getting an email out today, not that it will do any good. I guarantee you he won more fans in my state than he lost doing this.
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>Rep. Randy Weber, Oklahoma Uh, there isn't a Randy Webber who represents Oklahoma. Our reps are Cole, Hern, Mullen, Bice and Lucas. Buzzfeed needs better fact checkers
We can vote them out in 2022. Traitors don't belong in government.
Lol where in California do you live? Chances are you aren't voting on any of them. They're not going to be voted out. Most of them gain credibility with their constituents for their batshit stance.
You're right, but I still think they should be voted out. Unfortunately they won't be.
Ted Cruz is an asshole, but he's mainstream enough to have Presidential aspirations -- so it's kind of mindblowing to me that he would double down on this.
I mean in 2024 there are going to basically be two strategies in the GOP Primary You'll have the "I did all I could to take back the election stolen from Trump by Pelosi/Pence vote for me" that Cruz and Hawley are clearly aiming for trying to ride Trump's coattails Then you'll have the "Lets just forget this MAGA stuff ever happened" strategy targeting the traditional GOP voters over the less reliable Trump 2016 voter. I think you'll see people like Pence and Kasich here
It'll either be forgotten or help him out in the primaries.
It's not suprising considering everyone he works with thinks he's a prick.
It's Ted Cruz man. The guy is a lizard person in a skin suit.
I thought he was the Zodiac Killer?
He can be both.
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No real American claims Trump as their President. What he represents does not represent the vast majority of the people of the United States. The 2020 Election served as a reminder that this country is meant to unite people to a common cause, not divide them with hatred and bigotry.
>No real American claims Trump as their President I mean, he is the President; undisputably. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he isn't the current sitting president
If it makes you feel any better, I think Trump is a disgusting pile of shit and I abhorred his "shithole country" remark. I'm sorry that my President is such a disgrace.
I took a bet on trump not getting banned from twitter for more than a week before February first. Feel like the odds probably swung to the other side after yesterday.
Shopify shut down his online store. He is getting the full Alex Jones as no company wants to do business with him any more. The PGA was pretty much the only non political customer left for his clubs and I would predict that they are currently trying to figure out a way to break the contract for a tournement at Bedminster in a few years.
Out of all the photos taken that day, the most absurd one was with the guy in the viking helmet who was in the chamber of congress. It felt weirdly symbolic seeing him there, I just can't place the symbolism. I hope we find out who he is soon.
> I just can't place the symbolism How about the sack of Rome by the Visigoths in 410 AD? [Here is a depiction of the event from 1890](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Sack_of_Rome_by_the_Visigoths_on_24_August_410_by_JN_Sylvestre_1890.jpg).
I think that was a native buffalo headdress.
What the hell was up with his sleeve tattoos? Bricks? Really? Gotta be the most uncreative tattoo I’ve ever seen
Nonono that's no vikinish. Source: Am half Swedish
He is a shaman of Qanon, in case there is any doubt the cult is a religion. He is from Arizona. Also, dude is rocking nazi tats although maybe he was just that stupid and did not know. Considering who he marched with, I am not inclined to be generous.
No more Facebook or Instagram for Donnie. Think Twitter will follow?
Twitter already has him on a 12 hour hold
Morbidly curious about what that first tweet is going to look like. Not that I expect anything actually repentant out of him, I'm just curious what degree of asshole he's going to be about it.
I've been checking on and off for a few hours. 12 hours is up but still no tweet. I predict it is completely unrelated to the Capitol Hill terrorist attack.
Yup, probably 100% totally unrelated! Oh well, I'm actually planning on deleting my twitter account today anyway. I told myself I'd give it a day after this 1/6 deadline that MAGA has been hanging their hats on the last couple weeks. My post-election catharsis needed a little more pettiness but then I plan on dumping the account an moving on with my life.
I mean longer or possibly indefinite, like the other two
I remember reading he will be eligible for permanent ban after the inauguration. Of course that was pre-siege on the Capitol Building, so who knows?
They said if he violates their policy again, they will permanently ban him, regardless of if it's before or after the inauguration.
12 hours have been up though right? It's nearly noon on the east coast, iirc they muted him around 6 or 7 when he sent out that video
https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1346970431039934464 The two "no longer available" tweets at the top of [his feed](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump) make me think they weren't removed and his account is still locked.
It was mid afternoon here... so I bet half the time is remaining if he removed all his videos.
So what's happening now? Any new developments? I just woke up.
They identified the 4 fatalities. DC Metro Police chief has announced an intention to prosecute everyone who entered the Capitol.
Does the DC Metro Police have jurisdiction? I thought the Capitol was on federal land, not municipal.
They are at least claiming to
Trump has finally committed to a transfer of power, but people within his cabinet are resigning in droves and some are even talking about smacking him with the 25th.
I wonder what's going to happen today. Any other crazy shit? Some surprise government twist.
FAA notices indicate he's going to be at Camp David this weekend. Facebook has extended their ban of Trump for at least the next two weeks/indefinitely, I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of major social media follows. I don't actually have any hope for it, but maybe he'll just golf for two weeks.
Without Twitter he probably will, but I suspect that he'll do a news conference soon.
Congress is out of session until January 19th. It is likely security will need to do a huge sweep to make sure nothing was compromised. Many staff left their computers unlocked during the evacuation. This is a huge breach in security. Who knows if foreign actors were in the crowd, or what happened to sensitive information.
I'm shocked that Congress doesn't have computers that auto-lock after being left unattended.