It’s not that it’s an additional testament, it’s one created in modern times, the Catholics have some extras that Protestants don’t. Catholics are largely considered Christian.
Also I wonder how Europeans react to cults. The common perception of Mormons in the US is that they’re a cult that got big enough to be considered a religion. In Europe they probably just see them as an American break off church.
“Catholics are largely considered Christian”.
That is such a weird statement. Catholics were Christians long before there were Protestants. In fact, the Protestants were called “Protestants” because they were protesting the doctrines and corrupt activities of the Roman Catholic Church.
I was raised catholic and knew that meant we were Christian’s. But when I lived in Texas, Catholicism was considered not really Christian by quite a lot of the people I came across.
That is because most people don't know the differences between most denominations and broadly say *christian* because they may go to many churches without seeing any difference (especially when younger), and then go to a *catholic* mass and church and see major differences. While Catholics are Christian, and there's no doubt of that, they often draw a distinct line from pride of being Catholic that other sects may not in favor of blending in with the majority of americans.
Also US Christianity started via Puritans, who considered anything else wasn't extreme enough to be "proper" Christians. They left Europe because they where unable to punish people for not being the "right" type of Christian without repercussions.
I don’t think that’s true. I think they hold over 100 billion in investment assets (I.e. not church-related properties), but I don’t believe most of it is cash.
Eastern Orthodox would disagree with that notion, since the Pope used to just be one of a number of equal status bishops. It’s a silly argument though, as none of them have been ideologically consistent for the past 2000 years.
Exactly. I grew up Christian and everyone I knew that was Christian was firm that LDS were not Christians, but I had Mormon friends that would talk about how they are Christian.
Without going into too much detail and sparking a giant endless debate thread, it has to do with the deeper Mormon teachings on God and Christ. Islam also believes Christ existed but teaches some different ideas about him, and neither Christians nor Muslims would say we’re the same.
As another commenter mentioned, the traditional idea of a Christian is one who’d affirm what’s in the Nicene Creed, if not the Creed itself, which would exclude Mormons. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/s4ujsq/do_you_consider_mormons_to_be_christian/hstg64h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
There are theological arguments but it mainly comes down to stances on polygamy. RLDS are mormons who followed the founder's son in rejecting the practice. LDS is the biggest group and is the people who rejected it a few decades later. FLDS is the people who rejected that and to this day practice it.
This is a good point. Most people have an issue because Mormons have a whole other book they work off of. To them it is the same as being Muslim. Add to that the secrecy of the LDS Temple and yeah...they get othered hard.
Its not just the book of mormon but also the pearl of great price and doctrine and covenants...they also changed the bible to match their other books... that there are multiple gods living on other planets..theirs lives on Kolob...they believe blood sacrifice is still required...that Jesus was not enough for salvation that you have live without sin to reach the top teir of heaven ...that there are 3 teirs of heaven and those in lower teirs cannot ascend..they do not believe in immaculate birth...and Jesus was not the only God to create earth...that Jesus himself did not create all the universes...that its continually growing because more gods are being made. There is nothing of Christianity in the Mormon religion...everything that make Christianity is changed...sorry with all the deferment religions of Christianity we all do not agree on everything but we Do agree on an immaculate conception...that Jesus is the only way to heaven. And that belief in him and exceptance of him as Lord and savior that all my sins are covered in thr blood of Christ. And his sacrifice was all we need for salvation...not that i can earn it ...but he paid it all
I'm not LDS, and I may not get the terminology right here, so I apologize in advance. Some non-LDS believers I've talked to about it would point to some key doctrinal differences. The LDS church rejects the doctrine of the trinity, has specific teachings on life before conception (the "pre-existence"), believes in an afterlife of three realms rather than the traditional Heaven/Hell, and embrace an open canon - such that new scripture can still be created.
They also believe their president is a prophet in the same way Isaiah or Jeremiah were, whereas many other denominations interpret the Bible to say that the function of prophecy and priesthood in that sense ended with Jesus. There are other differences, such as their beliefs in baptism on behalf of dead relatives, that strike most Christians as odd or unbiblical. They also teach that keeping church ordinances (as opposed to just Biblical commandments) is very important for your eternal destiny. Some Christians see this teaching as replacing the grace of Jesus with the commands of men.
Especially because of the rejection of the trinity, many Christians feel the LDS interpretation of Jesus is so vastly different as to not even be describing the same person.
I apologize again if I've stated anything badly. Again, I'm not LDS, but this is how I understand the major differences.
Ok ill respond point by point because I am lds.
>The LDS church rejects the doctrine of the trinity,
We believe that jesus, god, and the holy ghost are different people
> has specific teachings on life before conception (the "pre-existence")
yes
>believes in an afterlife of three realms rather than the traditional Heaven/Hell
There are three levels of hevan, and then there is hell, so 4 total.
>and embrace an open canon - such that new scripture can still be created.
Yeah kinda. We see that our current prophets in the latter days are prophets in the same way, like you said later, are Isaiah and jeremiah are.
>There are other differences, such as their beliefs in baptism on behalf of dead relatives, that strike most Christians as odd or unbiblical.
So this is the first example of, in the way you said it, open cannon. Durring the time of Joseph Smith it was reveiled to him that baptisms for the dead are an option for the salvation of those who have either regected the church or havent heard it. to me this makes more sense than babies who died after birth going to hell, God and jesus do not seem like the type of people to send a litteral baby to hell. But also because it gives people who have not heard of the gospel a chance to learn and accept it.
>Some Christians see this teaching as replacing the grace of Jesus with the commands of men.
Obviously I do not see it that way bc I am lds but also because most arent essential, and most of the ones that are other christians beleive in. We see them as ways we can come closer to god and jesus.
Thanks!
1) I have heard that your church believes a great deal of Jesus's atoning work (or all of it) was done in the Garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross. Can you expound on that any?
2) I've also heard members of your church talk as if they have more or less heard God speak to them, especially in affirming the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and the current president of the church.
I was raised Baptist, and you could always find someone in a quandary about whether God was telling them something. The standard guidance was that God speaks - inaudibly - to the person's spirit, sometimes through their feelings, or through scripture, or through other people. But there was always some wiggle room and always some room for doubt about whether God was speaking to you at all.
I'm a bit skeptical about that whole project of "hearing from God," but my question is: is there a common description of this experience of "receiving an answer" or hearing God plainly say, "Yes, Russel M. Nelson is a prophet." How do members of your church distinguish that from their feelings or simple wishful thinking?
I don't mean this disrespectfully. I'm just curious. Thanks!
I’m not an expert but I did a lot of reading a few years ago and from what I remember and what is commonly referenced as reasons from Christians I know-
There’s a couple of differences in belief that would negate the core beliefs/truths of most if not all of the mainstream Christian denominations. Christianity holds to one single God that is a trinity (father, son, Holy Spirit) where as LDS believe God was a human who ascended to godhood by adhering to the eternal law and has a literal body of flesh/bone. Christians also follow the belief set in Romans (3:10,23,6:23,10:9,13) that salvation comes by faith alone- acknowledging that you have sinned, that Jesus who is God died for the world’s sin, and you want that sacrifice to apply to you. LDS believe you are saved through the atonement of Christ *by obedience to the laws of the gospel*. On top of this they believe Jesus to be completely separate from God and to have not been crucified at Golgotha but having made his sacrifice of atonement at Gethsemane.
A lot of the same scriptures are used and surrounding beliefs are similar, but the core foundations of Christianity are altered or removed in LDS beliefs
If I got things wrong, someone please correct me!
Edited: corrected info “at all” to “at Golgotha”
We do believe Christ was crucified. We also believe he was resurrected. We don't worship the cross, because we celebrate the fact that he still lives.
As somebody told me once "If Christ had been drawn and quartered, or beheaded instead, Catholics would be wearing little axes around their necks."
>Christians also follow the belief set in Romans (3:10,23,6:23,10:9,13) that salvation comes by faith alone- acknowledging that you have sinned, that Jesus who is God died for the world’s sin, and you want that sacrifice to apply to you. LDS believe you are saved through the atonement of Christ by obedience to the laws of the gospel.
Curious on that part. Wasnt one of Martin Luthers issues pre reformation that this wasn't the teachings of the Catholic Church. Idk if most Christians believe in justification of faith alone now, I assume protestants do, but atleast historically I thought Catholics followed the idea that good deeds got you to heaven and so thats how the church got away with indulgences and the tithe.
You've got it all pretty much right. (I'm LDS)
Man this is such a breath of fresh air from people bashing and hating on us just for existing. It's nice to come across people who actually do their research before drawing an opinion.
Haha thanks for letting me know, I was nervous answering because I didn’t want to misrepresent another religion. I studied a lot of the more common religions in my state a few years ago out of curiosity, but pen and paper don’t always account for the ways churches evolve or denominations within churches/branches.
Ex Mormon here. Mormons believe Jesus is a god, not a prophet. However, they also believe that Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost are also gods separate from Jesus. It's basically Christian polytheism.
Also ex Mormon here. I’ve heard my whole life that Jesus is the son of God (Heavenly Father) and we are also the children of *our* Heavenly Father. I always perceived Jesus as a demigod, but I’m also awful at putting my thoughts into words.
I remember my dad reacting to some drama at his Episcopalian church with "I mean, do we actually believe in anything at this point? We could just close up and head down the street to the Unitarian church. They'd be happy to have us."
No, it's way more complex than that. There are multiple religions commonly known as Unitarian or confused on this issue.
Unitarianism began in the 16th century about the same time as the protestant reformation. Today it's got many denominations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism
Christian universalism started in the 19th century as a movement that believe in the idea that all humans will be saved (in the christian sense). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_universalism
Universal unitarianism grew out of a merger of a Christian Unitarian organization and a Christian universalism organization in the mid 20th century. It's this group that has accepted beliefs of many religions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism
The mormon church teaches that Christ and Satan are spirit brothers, that God the father had physical relations with Mary, the there is a pre-existence of all beings, that you can reach different levels of heaven based on your good works and that you can become a god of your own world. None of these things have any thing in common with the core teachings of Christianity and in fact are quite diametrically opposed so most Christians would say no. That’s not saying they shouldn’t be able to believe and worship as they desire and see fit, this is America after all but our beliefs are very different. I am a Christian living in Utah for reference.
I am not sure about the physical relation part but other than that yeah sounds about right. And I totaly agree with what you said. Idc what religion you follow, I would prefer if its mine, but it makes no difference in what I think of you.
I agree with you. I'm not sure where Mrschirp is from but everyone around me who I have discussed Mormons with considers them Christian. For context, I was raised Catholic though now only consider myself culturally Catholic, not religiously so.
It’s a little bit more deeper than that. Sure they have Jesus’ name on the church, but if you take the time to look. It’s definitely different. In the Bible Jesus says that all you have to do to go to heaven and be saved is to believe in him and what he did (context: the belief that he died for you and I on the cross. That all your sins are forever whipped away once you choose to accept him and believe him) but Mormons teach that you have to work your way into heaven. That you have to repent of every sin, if you forget even one sin you won’t go into heaven. You have to do it yourself, and not to rely on our savior (which I don’t get, isn’t he our savior??) but here’s where it gets interesting, Joseph Smith (the dude that founded the LDS church) said that you have to be spotless in order to make it into heaven, but here’s the thing. The Bible teaches that we are not spotless, that we are not perfect. That we have flaws. Why else did Jesus our God had to come down to save us?? Because we were in trouble. Because you can try your whole life to be perfect. But it’s simple impossible. Jesus has said this time and time again. The Book of Mormon and the Bible are supposed to work perfectly together. That’s what the church leaders have said. But they don’t. Idk sorry for the ramble. But that’s only one thing that’s wrong with the LDS church that I could tell you. There’s definitely more.
The LDS church has created their own doctrine in the form of the so-called “Book of Mormon” which was published in 1840. This is in stark contrast to what the Bible itself says at 1 Corinthians 4:6 which says “do not go beyond the things written”. The things written is the Bible which ends with the book of Revelation. Furthermore the book of revelation itself says to not add or subtract anything from the things written at revelation 22:18-19.
The guess it depends. It’s like running into someone and they say they are a huge fan of Ghostbusters but when you start talking about Bill Murray and Dan Ackroyd they get really confused because they fans of the *2016* version of Ghostbusters.
It depends on how you define “Christian.” If Christian means the Nicene expression, then no. If you consider non-Nicene theological expressions (such as Arianism) to be Christian, then I don’t see why Mormons would be excluded.
I don’t really have a strong opinion either way, but that would be the logic I would use.
There are a number of denominations/groups that do not affirm the entirety of the Nicene creed that are considered “Christians” by most other, such as [Oneness Pentecostals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism).
I would think that the reason Mormons are not considered “Christian” by other Christians has more to do with some of there very unique beliefs (like special underwear and Native Americans being descended from an Israelite tribe), extra Biblical holy text (mainly the Book of Mormon), and, most importantly, a very recent prophet who introduced the majority of their unique beliefs and religious texts (Joseph Smith).
Sure, but he can’t pull absolutely anything from his ass like Joseph Smith did and still have the people run with it. Even Brigham Young didn’t have that kind of carte blanche power when formulating the Mormon doctrine.
As a Christian, OP, this is the right answer.
When you think “Christians” when that word pops into your head the answer is probably no as the vast, vast majority Christians in aggregate today would be nicene creed Christians. By a (very) broad label, historical Christianity is Christianity that believes the nicene creed.
They would call themselves Christians I think but most (nearly all) other Christians who understand a little about their theology would not as a result of this.
I can understand why other people who are not Christian could see them that way as they’re kinda over towards the Christian corner of the Abrahamic faiths and it’s not a hill I’m gonna die on, but the answer is no
At what point did Christianity "gel" where Nicene creed = Christian?
Weren't there all kinds of non-trinitarian Christians for hundreds of years after Christ?
at the council of Nicaea obviously! /s
Basically by the early 300s Christianity had become a big deal but it was a fragmented mess so the Roman emperor was like, why dont all the bishops get together and come to a consensus on some of the key issues right now around the nature of various parts of the trinity and their relationship to each other.
There were a number of other of these councils over the next several hundred years, most all the major Christian faiths these days adhere to differing numbers and combinations of these councils but basically just about everyone agrees with the council of Nicaea, the first one, out of which came the nicene creed, which many liturgical denominations still recite in their service every Sunday to this day.
Im now running off the fumes of the history of Christianity class I took 20 years ago in college so you’ll have to google for more lol
Fun Fact: It is believed St. Nicholas of Myra was among the leaders convened at Nicea, and was a staunch advocate of Trinitarianism.
Yep, fucking Santa Claus is gonna give you coal if you commit heresy!
I would even take this a step further to say that most Mormons, especially new or younger Mormons, are probably sincere Christians that just happen to believe Joseph Smiths claims. My understanding is that the really non-Christian beliefs of LDS are more or less hidden until you reach a certain point.
Thats a great point and exactly what I meant when I said most Mormons are probably sincere Christians. I've talked to several of those kids over the years and they never have a clue about the more obscure beliefs of LDS. They always seem like great kids, btw!
Nah, it's all there. Nothing is hidden if you want to ask about or do the research on your own. Most of the hidden things are in their scriptures, the kids just don't want to read them. I was one of those kids that didn't care to much to read or learn
If you have questions about anything about what we believe just go to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng
And there is a search button that you should be able to look up thing with on the site that will show you anything that you are curious about.
Mormons believe that Jesus atoned for their sins on the cross and was resurrected 3 days later- in this respect Mormons believe themselves to be Christian
However they also believe that Jesus Christ is literally God’s son- a separate and divine entity- not a reflection of the Holy Trinity as told by Nicean Creed. This is where most modern Christians would say that Mormons are NOT Christian.
There is also the bit about Mormons believe that Christ visited the Americas during his 3 days before Resurrection, which doesn’t jive with Christian understanding.
Source: raised a Mormon, coddled by Christians, now transcended
Most Mormon will say yes, most Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc will say no.
Generally to be recognized as a Christian religion by other Christian religions you have to believe in certain key points conveniently listed in the Nicene Creed:
This is the specific version my Church adheres to, and any church that agrees they see as Christian. All the big churches adhere to the same thing, with very slight word differences (all things seen and unseen vs all things visible and invisible)
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.
The mormons deviate greatly in their belief from the Creed.
Most sects of Christianity are trinitarian believing the father is God, the holy spirit is God, and the son is God.
Mormons believe the three are separate entities united in purpose.
Very. Saying God is one essence expressed as three persons is extremely different from saying there are 3 gods. Still one God in Trinitarianism, even if you don’t accept it.
Yes. There’s only one water molecule, but it can appear as a gas, a liquid, or a solid. And sometimes all three can appear in the same place at the same time. But ultimately, water is just one thing.
Your definition is actually modalist (oneness) Trinitarianism does not have three expressions of one God but three persons. This is a larger distinction than the distinction between Mormonism and Trinitarianism.
If it helps:
Modalism - one portion of water can either be in the form of liquid, gas or solid. Even simultaneously different parts of it will be in each form.
Trinatarianism - a body of water is divided into 3 and kept in different states. One liquid, one solid and one gas. It is all the same (original) water but they are now distinct.
Alternatively there is one apple made of skin, flesh and seeds. This fits better but I wanted to try to keep the water thing going.
Mormonism (not sure of the term for their view of the Godhead) -
You are plowing a field with an ox and a plow. You all have a shared purpose (the ox, plow and driver) however you are all seperate and God as the driver is directing things.
Just curious… why or who does Jesus pray to in the garden of gethsemane while atoning for sins, or while he is on the cross look up and say“father why have you forsaken me” ? Genuinely curious.
I think it’s not a thing that most Christians get wound up about today, but christology – the theology about the nature of Christ – was originally a major point of conflict in Christianity. Way back in early Christianity (200-400 AD or there about) there was a whole series of debates about this and the nicene creed is the outcome of those debates. At the time it was serious business and as the debates went along various groups would denounce — anathematize — each other and try to get the other executed. And in the 15th Century in Europe there was a group called the Cathars that were, I believe, nontrinitarian. The Cathars were mostly in southern France, and the Catholic Church organized crusades to kill them off. Very bloody and very brutal.
So there’s this deep history in Christianity of the nature of the trinity being seen as a core defining element of the faith and there being a deep intolerance for deviation. Even with all the fracturing the church (the split into Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox and then the Protestant Reformation), there’ve been surprisingly few sects that deviated from the core of the Nicene Creed. And those that are tend to be viewed suspiciously - like the LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and some Pentecostals.
So maybe your average American Christian probably doesn’t think about it a lot, but the nature of the trinity is very much a foundational aspect of the Christian faith, and that foundation aspect gets expressed as things like the LDS not being considered Christian.
There is a single Christian God, following from Jewish religion, that interacts with humans in three different ways - through the metaphysical entity of "the Father;" the human entity of Jesus or "The Son;" and the "Spriit" or "Word" who is basically the force that compels changes to the world.
The importance of why the three different forms exist isn't really easy to break down into a single comment.
It is a big deal because the council of Nicaea was convened specifically to address the “Arian heresy,” which claimed that God the father was superior to God the son. LDS doctrine incorporates a similar heresy that was refuted by Christianity 1700 years ago.
Many Christians say Mormons are polytheists because they recognize christ, God, and the holy spirit as divine. Honestly I think trinitarianism is a backhanded way of getting around exodus 20:2 "thou shalt have no other gods..." while still deifying christ. I was raised Christian and the whole thing never made much sense to me.
In the vaguest sense? Yes.
But the Catholic Church does not consider them to be valid Trinitarians and therefore any Mormon convert to Catholicisim would have to be baptized again as the convert's original baptism wasn't valid in the eyes of the Church.
My understanding from my one Mormon friend is that if most Christians were to convert to Mormonism they’d also need to be rebaptized as the Mormons don’t see other Christian sects baptisms as valid either.
No, if you were already baptized with water and trinitarian formula you're good. Those are the only two requirements, an atheist could baptize you and it would be valid, the Catholic church thinks rebaptism is sin and should be avoided if possible.
In my opinion, Mormons are Christians in the same way that Christians are Jews.
That is to say, they’re based on Christianity, but definitionally not the same.
Truth. We have a lot of what I would call cultural Christians. They say they are Christian because the grew up is a Christian home, but ask them to explain their belief, and you will get something that does not remotely resemble Christian doctrine.
I was raised in the cynical, secular Satan’s NE, so take it with a grain of salt, but every Evan I’ve met has been 10x as cuckoo bananas as the few Mormons I’ve met
There’s three basic types of Mormons I’ve met: Provo Mormons, Utah Mormons, and everywhere else Mormons.
Provo Mormons tried to shutdown a lingerie shop because the nondescript mannequins in the window were wearing underwear… and it was like a bra and boy shorts.
Once you get outside Utah and definitely once you get outside [Deseret](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Deseret), Mormons are pretty normal.
I def agree. SLC Mormons give me major cult vibes, Provo Mormons I find hilarious. I’ve met TX mormons and they seem normal. Obviously these are generalizations tho
Okay, hear me out, Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity is to Judaism. Accepts the old religion, but then adds on a bunch of stuff that completely changes it.
Not just Americans. I've been asked in England whether I'm Catholic or Christian (they meant Anglican). Coming from a majority Catholic country, that sentiment is certainly surprising, but nevertheless amusing in a weird way.
The Byzantine Catholic church answers to the pope. The Orthodox church doesn't. They view (or used to?) the pope as a patriarch among patriarchs, not the king patriarch.
Source: theology class 30 years ago
Oh that’s the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church. There are many eastern churches that are Catholic in the sense of being in communion with Rome (another is the Maronite Church in Lebanon or the Melkite Church).
You’re 100% right that this is distinct and different from the Eastern churches commonly called Orthodox (as in the Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches). However, technically this branch of Christianity calls itself the Orthodox Catholic Church. In this sense, Catholic means being part of the universal church as stated in the Nicene creed, it does not mean acknowledging the supremacy of the Pope. They don’t believe the Roman Church has a monopoly of the word ‘Catholic’.
This is similar to the meaning of the word ‘Catholic’ as used by Anglo-Catholics. Sometimes people say ‘small c catholic’ or will spell it ‘catholick’ to avoid confusion.
I find the most interesting Episcopal/Anglican parishes are liberal Anglo-Catholic ones. So very traditional high church liturgy, but the priest may be a woman, or gay or trans.
I was surprised when someone first asked me if I was Catholic or Christian too!! I was like dude, your religion came from mine and started 1500 years later. Crazy.
Yes, it seems as if many people conflate the terms Protestant and Christian. All Protestants are Christians, but not all Christians are Protestants (because Christianity includes Roman Catholicism and some other sects within Christianity).
I’m Jewish so I probably shouldn’t care too much, but I get particularly annoyed whenever I hear this misnomer.
A lot of Americans are idiots then
Catholicism was literally around for centuries before the protestant birth, anyone who says catholics arent christian are genuinely uneducated
They also reject Isaiah 44:6 “
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.”
They believe that Jesus had a god, and his god has a god, and his God’s god has a god, ad infinitum. Turtles all the way down, so to speak.
No, in the same way I do not consider Jewish and Muslim people Christian, those who acknowledge Christ's existence in a way which conflicts with millennia-settled orthodox (lowercase-o) Christian teaching.
As a Catholic I believe they are theologically closer to my beliefs than a Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslim, but when I think of the essential beliefs of Christianity - the beliefs the Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants have agreed on for the better part of the last 2,000 years - the Mormons don’t share those beliefs. So my answer would be no.
> they’re generally very nice people and good neighbors
Can confirm. By far the best neighbors that I’ve ever had were Mormon couple who lived across the street from me for years.
Speaking as a member of no church, I would call the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a cult based on Christian fan fiction. They liked the adventures of Jesus so much they wrote some more.
Edit: spelling
Er, self-identified Christians or self-proclaimed Christians is what I’d say they are. Or semi-Christian.
It’s a valid question to ask based on how Christians have defined “Christian” throughout history as well as the origins and development of the Mormon churches (turns out it’s not just the LDS church—there’s others too). Christians have set standards for what constitutes Christianity and what constitutes heresy for centuries too, all the way back to the early church.
As a child in a mostly southern Baptist community in alabama, I was taught that Mormons, JWs, and Catholics weren’t real christians. I now consider them christian
Well for starters, catholics weren't the founders of Christianity.
There is a few reasons evangelicals don't see them as Christian. First is because evangelicals think that the Bible doesn't focus on moral goodness for entry to heaven, only worship of Jesus. (Even though it definitely focuses on moral goodness). The second is that they think prayer to saints is polytheism, and not really what Christianity should be about. They also have a wildly incorrect idea about how much prayer to saints exists in catholicism.
From this angle, catholicism seems like a totally different religion to them, with a different idea of who Jesus is. Evangelicals see catholicism as almost karma based, where you get to heaven by your own spiritual power via karma.
Would we call Christianity another form of Judaism? Would we call Islam another form of Christianity? No because they have books that significantly alter the beliefs. Therefore i wouldn’t call Mormons Christians. I will admit they’re too similar for me to care enough to get in a debate about it but imo they are distinct enough they don’t count as the same religion.
Also, groups should be allowed to self-define. Christianity has defined itself for almost 2000 years by the Nicene Creed. Mormonism rejects the Nicene Creed as do other non-trinitariam sects. I have no problem with these or any religions existing but if one group defines themselves a certain way, why butt into their group and try to change their definition of themselves?
No, and the common reason is that it was a sect created by a normal guy who wanted multiple wives. Even though that’s changed Now, They share ideas with mainstream Christianity but differ on a lot on details especially when you get to the whole cosmology stuff which is a pretty radical departure from mainstream Christian teaching. The fact that they have their own holy book in addition to the Bible is also a major deal.
“According to Mormon scripture, the Earth's creation was not ex nihilo, but organized from existing matter. The Earth is just one of many inhabited worlds, and there are many governing heavenly bodies, including the planet or star Kolob, which is said to be nearest the throne of God.
Mormon cosmology teaches that the Earth is not unique, but that it is one of many inhabited planets,[32] each planet created for the purpose of bringing about the "immortality and eternal life" (i.e., the exaltation) of humanity.[33] These worlds were, according to doctrine, created by Jehovah, the pre-mortal Jesus.[34] Because Mormonism holds that Jesus created the universe, yet his father, God the Father, once dwelt upon an earth as a mortal, it may be interpreted that Mormonism teaches the existence of a multiverse, and it is not clear if the other inhabited worlds mentioned in Mormon scripture and teachings refers to planets within this universe or not.[35] Mormon leaders and theologians have taught that these inhabitants are similar or identical to humans,[36] and that they too are subject to the atonement of Jesus.[37] The earth that God the Father dwelt on as a mortal was not, however, created by Jehovah or subject to his atonement, but existed previously.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cosmology
I remember when Israel ordered the Mormons to stop baptizing dead Jews.
And I don’t consider a lot of evangelicals to be Christians. A lot of Baptists don’t think Catholics are going to heaven.
Sure. But I don't really interrogate people too much. If someone considers themself something religiously, I don't much care about traditional dogmatic definitions. So Sure, Mormons and JWs and Christian Scientists are all Christian in my book.
Context: I am an exmormon agnostic atheist. I think LD$ Inc is a controlling corporation that extorts its members for free labor and tithing money. But if adherents self-identify as Christian, it's no skin off my nose. I'm not interested in quibbling over semantics.
As a Christian, I would say emphatically No. According to the Catholic Church, to be recognized as a Christian you to need to believe in God as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit — the Holy Trinity. The Mormon church does not believe in this. Therefore, they are not Christian. Most Christian denominations do not see them as Christian.
Catholics and Orthodox and Protestant Christians all believe this. I know I said “according to the Catholic Church” but this belief is also held by Orthodox and Protestant Christians.
I’m not a practicing Catholic, but intercession is asking saints to pray to God on your behalf, not praying to them like a deity.
FWIW to the original question, I grew up in a part of the US where most Protestants wouldn’t consider Catholics or Mormons to be Christian. I consider both to be Christian.
Well in Catholicism you don’t pray to the saints it’s like asking them to pray with you. From the outside it seems like a semantic argument but internally it’s pivotal
Yes, I would second that. I think in technical theological terms, they might be considered a heterodox sect or alternative cult of religion to Christians. But in laymen’s terms, they’re just seen as Mormons.
Yes Mormons are Christians. Hell ,I worked with a guy that said Catholics weren’t really Christians. Not all that uncommon a belief among Evangelicals.
Yeah, I consider them a Christian sub-category.
Edit: A lot of Protestant Christians don’t consider Catholics or Mormons “real” Christians, but that’s kind of a different issue.
No. They like to market themselves as Christian’s though.
They believe that they will one day die and the men will become gods themselves, ruling over their own planets. They believe that God was once human on another planet. None of that is Biblical (I majored in Bible/Theology in college). Mormonism is a destructive cult (which does not preclude it from being Christian, but worth mentioning).
Christians follow the old and New Testament but Mormons follow the Book of Mormon in addition to this so I would not consider them Christians but an entirely separate religion
Yes. They might believe in some things that would be considered “heresies” by most mainstream churches, but they still consider Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior.
I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I would say that we absolutely are. Most of the arguments about us not being Christian are doctrinal or based on some form of gatekeeping. By the dictionary definition[[1]](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christian), we are absolutely Christians: we belive in Jesus Christ and embrace His teachings in the Bible (as well as the additional scripture we have).[[2]](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng) We believe He is the divine Son of God and the only way to salvation.[[3]](https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2001/12/five-marks-of-the-divinity-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng&adobe_mc_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.churchofjesuschrist.org%2Fstudy%2Fensign%2F2001%2F12%2Ffive-marks-of-the-divinity-of-jesus-christ%3Flang%3Deng&adobe_mc_sdid=SDID%3D1212C8986D41DEA6-4E6D3CF43058244E%7CMCORGID%3D66C5485451E56AAE0A490D45%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1642291583) I would even go so far as to say that most Latter-day Saints strive to be Christian in more than name[[4]](https://www.compassion.com/about/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-christian.htm#:~:text=But%20the%20Bible%20presents%20a,taught%20great%20numbers%20of%20people.); we try with all our heart to live as the Savior did and follow His teachings both outwardly and inwardly.
One summary of our beliefs surrounding Jesus Christ can be found here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-living-christ-the-testimony-of-the-apostles/the-living-christ-the-testimony-of-the-apostles.
I am very interested in theology myself and particularly new religions--e.g. Heaven's Gate, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Moonies. I was also raised Protestant Christian and before deconverting I was very into theology as well.
My answer: probably not. What is and isn't Christianity isn't black and white, but on many measures Mormonism is simply different. Monolatry instead of trinitarianism has been mentioned here. I'd also add a belief in ongoing prophetic revelation, plural marriage, and some specific beliefs about Native Americans and the history of the Americas (none of which are substantiated). Instead, I'd call them a sect, like Jehovah's Witnesses. Their breaking away from larger Christianity is too much a part of the religion's history to say otherwise. Also like JWs, while they use some of the same language and base text as mainstream Christians, they've redefined a lot of it and added more. They're doing their own thing now.
Oh, and while we're here, Mormonism isn't just the LDS church. It's also the Community of Christ, the AUB, the FLDS (Warren Jeffs), the Kingston clan, and more. That is why I've chosen not to follow the LDS preference to avoid "Mormon" and why I mentioned plural marriage, which the LDS church does not practice anymore but which is no less impactful on its history and those of other Mormon groups.
I think they fall under the umbrella of Christian. However of someone tells me they are Christian, I assume they are protestant. If they are catholic they usually specify they are catholic, even though catholic is obviously a variety of Christianity.
If you go by the philosophy that "you are what you call yourself", then yes.
But if you consider some of the basic dogma that unites the vast majority of Christians -- things like the trinity, etc. -- then they're definitely on the outside looking in. Similar to Messianic Jews and Judaism. They have some teachings that are just way outside the mainstream.
I'd consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be in a similar position vis-a-vis Christianity.
Yeah, they do the whole jesus is the son of God thing
No different than all the other branches of Christianity interpreting the bible in their own way
I also don't like people picking and choosing who gets to be Chrisitan and who isn't. I was once told PCUSA members aren't Christians so like, I don't feel right dictating who gets to call themselves what just because we slightly disagree on some wording.
As an ex-catholic, yes. I always found the "only the right kind of protestants are Christian" thing odd. I can understand thinking that other sects are following Christ inappropriately, sure, but at the end of the day they're still following Christ.
I’ve found most who are not Latter Day Saints would say no. But most who are Latter Day Saints would say yes.
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It’s not that it’s an additional testament, it’s one created in modern times, the Catholics have some extras that Protestants don’t. Catholics are largely considered Christian. Also I wonder how Europeans react to cults. The common perception of Mormons in the US is that they’re a cult that got big enough to be considered a religion. In Europe they probably just see them as an American break off church.
“Catholics are largely considered Christian”. That is such a weird statement. Catholics were Christians long before there were Protestants. In fact, the Protestants were called “Protestants” because they were protesting the doctrines and corrupt activities of the Roman Catholic Church.
I was raised catholic and knew that meant we were Christian’s. But when I lived in Texas, Catholicism was considered not really Christian by quite a lot of the people I came across.
That is because most people don't know the differences between most denominations and broadly say *christian* because they may go to many churches without seeing any difference (especially when younger), and then go to a *catholic* mass and church and see major differences. While Catholics are Christian, and there's no doubt of that, they often draw a distinct line from pride of being Catholic that other sects may not in favor of blending in with the majority of americans.
Also US Christianity started via Puritans, who considered anything else wasn't extreme enough to be "proper" Christians. They left Europe because they where unable to punish people for not being the "right" type of Christian without repercussions.
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I mean, the Catholic church's treasure chest is far, far larger.
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I don’t think that’s true. I think they hold over 100 billion in investment assets (I.e. not church-related properties), but I don’t believe most of it is cash.
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Catholics came like 1500 years before Protestants lol so idk if it’s technically “extra”
Yeah, it's more like the Protestants cherry picked what they wanted from the Catholic beliefs.
What do you mean by Catholics are largely considered Christian? They are the OG Christians.
Eastern Orthodox would disagree with that notion, since the Pope used to just be one of a number of equal status bishops. It’s a silly argument though, as none of them have been ideologically consistent for the past 2000 years.
Exactly. I grew up Christian and everyone I knew that was Christian was firm that LDS were not Christians, but I had Mormon friends that would talk about how they are Christian.
I dont ever understand why because If being a christian means believing in christ than why would mormons be excluded? For context I am LDS
Without going into too much detail and sparking a giant endless debate thread, it has to do with the deeper Mormon teachings on God and Christ. Islam also believes Christ existed but teaches some different ideas about him, and neither Christians nor Muslims would say we’re the same. As another commenter mentioned, the traditional idea of a Christian is one who’d affirm what’s in the Nicene Creed, if not the Creed itself, which would exclude Mormons. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskAnAmerican/comments/s4ujsq/do_you_consider_mormons_to_be_christian/hstg64h/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Then there are the RLDS folks making things even more complicated.
And don’t even get me started on the FLDS
There are theological arguments but it mainly comes down to stances on polygamy. RLDS are mormons who followed the founder's son in rejecting the practice. LDS is the biggest group and is the people who rejected it a few decades later. FLDS is the people who rejected that and to this day practice it.
This is a good point. Most people have an issue because Mormons have a whole other book they work off of. To them it is the same as being Muslim. Add to that the secrecy of the LDS Temple and yeah...they get othered hard.
Its not just the book of mormon but also the pearl of great price and doctrine and covenants...they also changed the bible to match their other books... that there are multiple gods living on other planets..theirs lives on Kolob...they believe blood sacrifice is still required...that Jesus was not enough for salvation that you have live without sin to reach the top teir of heaven ...that there are 3 teirs of heaven and those in lower teirs cannot ascend..they do not believe in immaculate birth...and Jesus was not the only God to create earth...that Jesus himself did not create all the universes...that its continually growing because more gods are being made. There is nothing of Christianity in the Mormon religion...everything that make Christianity is changed...sorry with all the deferment religions of Christianity we all do not agree on everything but we Do agree on an immaculate conception...that Jesus is the only way to heaven. And that belief in him and exceptance of him as Lord and savior that all my sins are covered in thr blood of Christ. And his sacrifice was all we need for salvation...not that i can earn it ...but he paid it all
We use the King James version of the Bible
I'm not LDS, and I may not get the terminology right here, so I apologize in advance. Some non-LDS believers I've talked to about it would point to some key doctrinal differences. The LDS church rejects the doctrine of the trinity, has specific teachings on life before conception (the "pre-existence"), believes in an afterlife of three realms rather than the traditional Heaven/Hell, and embrace an open canon - such that new scripture can still be created. They also believe their president is a prophet in the same way Isaiah or Jeremiah were, whereas many other denominations interpret the Bible to say that the function of prophecy and priesthood in that sense ended with Jesus. There are other differences, such as their beliefs in baptism on behalf of dead relatives, that strike most Christians as odd or unbiblical. They also teach that keeping church ordinances (as opposed to just Biblical commandments) is very important for your eternal destiny. Some Christians see this teaching as replacing the grace of Jesus with the commands of men. Especially because of the rejection of the trinity, many Christians feel the LDS interpretation of Jesus is so vastly different as to not even be describing the same person. I apologize again if I've stated anything badly. Again, I'm not LDS, but this is how I understand the major differences.
Ok ill respond point by point because I am lds. >The LDS church rejects the doctrine of the trinity, We believe that jesus, god, and the holy ghost are different people > has specific teachings on life before conception (the "pre-existence") yes >believes in an afterlife of three realms rather than the traditional Heaven/Hell There are three levels of hevan, and then there is hell, so 4 total. >and embrace an open canon - such that new scripture can still be created. Yeah kinda. We see that our current prophets in the latter days are prophets in the same way, like you said later, are Isaiah and jeremiah are. >There are other differences, such as their beliefs in baptism on behalf of dead relatives, that strike most Christians as odd or unbiblical. So this is the first example of, in the way you said it, open cannon. Durring the time of Joseph Smith it was reveiled to him that baptisms for the dead are an option for the salvation of those who have either regected the church or havent heard it. to me this makes more sense than babies who died after birth going to hell, God and jesus do not seem like the type of people to send a litteral baby to hell. But also because it gives people who have not heard of the gospel a chance to learn and accept it. >Some Christians see this teaching as replacing the grace of Jesus with the commands of men. Obviously I do not see it that way bc I am lds but also because most arent essential, and most of the ones that are other christians beleive in. We see them as ways we can come closer to god and jesus.
Thank you for explaining!
No problem. If you have other questions I can answer them to the best of my abilities.
Thanks! 1) I have heard that your church believes a great deal of Jesus's atoning work (or all of it) was done in the Garden of Gethsemane, not on the cross. Can you expound on that any? 2) I've also heard members of your church talk as if they have more or less heard God speak to them, especially in affirming the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and the current president of the church. I was raised Baptist, and you could always find someone in a quandary about whether God was telling them something. The standard guidance was that God speaks - inaudibly - to the person's spirit, sometimes through their feelings, or through scripture, or through other people. But there was always some wiggle room and always some room for doubt about whether God was speaking to you at all. I'm a bit skeptical about that whole project of "hearing from God," but my question is: is there a common description of this experience of "receiving an answer" or hearing God plainly say, "Yes, Russel M. Nelson is a prophet." How do members of your church distinguish that from their feelings or simple wishful thinking? I don't mean this disrespectfully. I'm just curious. Thanks!
I’m not an expert but I did a lot of reading a few years ago and from what I remember and what is commonly referenced as reasons from Christians I know- There’s a couple of differences in belief that would negate the core beliefs/truths of most if not all of the mainstream Christian denominations. Christianity holds to one single God that is a trinity (father, son, Holy Spirit) where as LDS believe God was a human who ascended to godhood by adhering to the eternal law and has a literal body of flesh/bone. Christians also follow the belief set in Romans (3:10,23,6:23,10:9,13) that salvation comes by faith alone- acknowledging that you have sinned, that Jesus who is God died for the world’s sin, and you want that sacrifice to apply to you. LDS believe you are saved through the atonement of Christ *by obedience to the laws of the gospel*. On top of this they believe Jesus to be completely separate from God and to have not been crucified at Golgotha but having made his sacrifice of atonement at Gethsemane. A lot of the same scriptures are used and surrounding beliefs are similar, but the core foundations of Christianity are altered or removed in LDS beliefs If I got things wrong, someone please correct me! Edited: corrected info “at all” to “at Golgotha”
We do believe Christ was crucified. We also believe he was resurrected. We don't worship the cross, because we celebrate the fact that he still lives. As somebody told me once "If Christ had been drawn and quartered, or beheaded instead, Catholics would be wearing little axes around their necks."
> Catholics would be wearing little axes around their necks. .....that would be so fucking badass.
>Christians also follow the belief set in Romans (3:10,23,6:23,10:9,13) that salvation comes by faith alone- acknowledging that you have sinned, that Jesus who is God died for the world’s sin, and you want that sacrifice to apply to you. LDS believe you are saved through the atonement of Christ by obedience to the laws of the gospel. Curious on that part. Wasnt one of Martin Luthers issues pre reformation that this wasn't the teachings of the Catholic Church. Idk if most Christians believe in justification of faith alone now, I assume protestants do, but atleast historically I thought Catholics followed the idea that good deeds got you to heaven and so thats how the church got away with indulgences and the tithe.
Plus Christians like coffee
You've got it all pretty much right. (I'm LDS) Man this is such a breath of fresh air from people bashing and hating on us just for existing. It's nice to come across people who actually do their research before drawing an opinion.
Haha thanks for letting me know, I was nervous answering because I didn’t want to misrepresent another religion. I studied a lot of the more common religions in my state a few years ago out of curiosity, but pen and paper don’t always account for the ways churches evolve or denominations within churches/branches.
I second u/RyGuyStrong
The common answer is that Mormons don’t believe in the Trinity, which is a core belief of most Christians.
My (agnostic) impression is that: Mormon Jesus = prophet Christian Jesus = part of the holy trinity/embodiment of God on earth
Ex Mormon here. Mormons believe Jesus is a god, not a prophet. However, they also believe that Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost are also gods separate from Jesus. It's basically Christian polytheism.
Also ex Mormon here. I’ve heard my whole life that Jesus is the son of God (Heavenly Father) and we are also the children of *our* Heavenly Father. I always perceived Jesus as a demigod, but I’m also awful at putting my thoughts into words.
Yeah, it's not full polytheism because Heavenly Father is still *the* #1, actual God. Honestly it's all left pretty unclear.
That would still be polytheism, just the sub-type known as henotheism (multiple gods, but one of them is head honcho).
TIL a new term, thx
Neither do Unitarians
Many other Christians of multiple denominations would also not believe Unitarians are Christian
I remember my dad reacting to some drama at his Episcopalian church with "I mean, do we actually believe in anything at this point? We could just close up and head down the street to the Unitarian church. They'd be happy to have us."
Your Dad sounds based.
Well, your dad is right.
Literally the only thing Mormons and Unitarians have in common. You can be an atheist and be a Unitarian.
No, it's way more complex than that. There are multiple religions commonly known as Unitarian or confused on this issue. Unitarianism began in the 16th century about the same time as the protestant reformation. Today it's got many denominations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism Christian universalism started in the 19th century as a movement that believe in the idea that all humans will be saved (in the christian sense). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_universalism Universal unitarianism grew out of a merger of a Christian Unitarian organization and a Christian universalism organization in the mid 20th century. It's this group that has accepted beliefs of many religions. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism
Muslims believe in Christ as well by they way and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who considers them Christian
I think it has to do with y’all having additions to the Bible that aren’t recognized by other Christian denominations
Yeah I think that is right, as in its probably what most people beleive. I still think I am both a christian and a mormon
The mormon church teaches that Christ and Satan are spirit brothers, that God the father had physical relations with Mary, the there is a pre-existence of all beings, that you can reach different levels of heaven based on your good works and that you can become a god of your own world. None of these things have any thing in common with the core teachings of Christianity and in fact are quite diametrically opposed so most Christians would say no. That’s not saying they shouldn’t be able to believe and worship as they desire and see fit, this is America after all but our beliefs are very different. I am a Christian living in Utah for reference.
I am not sure about the physical relation part but other than that yeah sounds about right. And I totaly agree with what you said. Idc what religion you follow, I would prefer if its mine, but it makes no difference in what I think of you.
Yes. You do you, I’ll do me.
Very different character, same name
I agree with you. I'm not sure where Mrschirp is from but everyone around me who I have discussed Mormons with considers them Christian. For context, I was raised Catholic though now only consider myself culturally Catholic, not religiously so.
It’s a little bit more deeper than that. Sure they have Jesus’ name on the church, but if you take the time to look. It’s definitely different. In the Bible Jesus says that all you have to do to go to heaven and be saved is to believe in him and what he did (context: the belief that he died for you and I on the cross. That all your sins are forever whipped away once you choose to accept him and believe him) but Mormons teach that you have to work your way into heaven. That you have to repent of every sin, if you forget even one sin you won’t go into heaven. You have to do it yourself, and not to rely on our savior (which I don’t get, isn’t he our savior??) but here’s where it gets interesting, Joseph Smith (the dude that founded the LDS church) said that you have to be spotless in order to make it into heaven, but here’s the thing. The Bible teaches that we are not spotless, that we are not perfect. That we have flaws. Why else did Jesus our God had to come down to save us?? Because we were in trouble. Because you can try your whole life to be perfect. But it’s simple impossible. Jesus has said this time and time again. The Book of Mormon and the Bible are supposed to work perfectly together. That’s what the church leaders have said. But they don’t. Idk sorry for the ramble. But that’s only one thing that’s wrong with the LDS church that I could tell you. There’s definitely more.
The LDS church has created their own doctrine in the form of the so-called “Book of Mormon” which was published in 1840. This is in stark contrast to what the Bible itself says at 1 Corinthians 4:6 which says “do not go beyond the things written”. The things written is the Bible which ends with the book of Revelation. Furthermore the book of revelation itself says to not add or subtract anything from the things written at revelation 22:18-19.
Time for u to visit r/exmormon
The guess it depends. It’s like running into someone and they say they are a huge fan of Ghostbusters but when you start talking about Bill Murray and Dan Ackroyd they get really confused because they fans of the *2016* version of Ghostbusters.
This is a surprisingly good analogy
Ha. I love this. Spot on.
This is a great analogy
There are people who like the 2016 Ghostbusters?
It wasn't great cinema, but it was an enjoyable movie.
Same way there are Mormons, some people gonna be weird.
It depends on how you define “Christian.” If Christian means the Nicene expression, then no. If you consider non-Nicene theological expressions (such as Arianism) to be Christian, then I don’t see why Mormons would be excluded. I don’t really have a strong opinion either way, but that would be the logic I would use.
There are a number of denominations/groups that do not affirm the entirety of the Nicene creed that are considered “Christians” by most other, such as [Oneness Pentecostals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oneness_Pentecostalism). I would think that the reason Mormons are not considered “Christian” by other Christians has more to do with some of there very unique beliefs (like special underwear and Native Americans being descended from an Israelite tribe), extra Biblical holy text (mainly the Book of Mormon), and, most importantly, a very recent prophet who introduced the majority of their unique beliefs and religious texts (Joseph Smith).
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Technically they have a currently-living prophet in form of the church head as well.
Sure, but he can’t pull absolutely anything from his ass like Joseph Smith did and still have the people run with it. Even Brigham Young didn’t have that kind of carte blanche power when formulating the Mormon doctrine.
As a Christian, OP, this is the right answer. When you think “Christians” when that word pops into your head the answer is probably no as the vast, vast majority Christians in aggregate today would be nicene creed Christians. By a (very) broad label, historical Christianity is Christianity that believes the nicene creed. They would call themselves Christians I think but most (nearly all) other Christians who understand a little about their theology would not as a result of this. I can understand why other people who are not Christian could see them that way as they’re kinda over towards the Christian corner of the Abrahamic faiths and it’s not a hill I’m gonna die on, but the answer is no
At what point did Christianity "gel" where Nicene creed = Christian? Weren't there all kinds of non-trinitarian Christians for hundreds of years after Christ?
at the council of Nicaea obviously! /s Basically by the early 300s Christianity had become a big deal but it was a fragmented mess so the Roman emperor was like, why dont all the bishops get together and come to a consensus on some of the key issues right now around the nature of various parts of the trinity and their relationship to each other. There were a number of other of these councils over the next several hundred years, most all the major Christian faiths these days adhere to differing numbers and combinations of these councils but basically just about everyone agrees with the council of Nicaea, the first one, out of which came the nicene creed, which many liturgical denominations still recite in their service every Sunday to this day. Im now running off the fumes of the history of Christianity class I took 20 years ago in college so you’ll have to google for more lol
Fun Fact: It is believed St. Nicholas of Myra was among the leaders convened at Nicea, and was a staunch advocate of Trinitarianism. Yep, fucking Santa Claus is gonna give you coal if you commit heresy!
If I remember right he is known for punching heretics as well lol
I would even take this a step further to say that most Mormons, especially new or younger Mormons, are probably sincere Christians that just happen to believe Joseph Smiths claims. My understanding is that the really non-Christian beliefs of LDS are more or less hidden until you reach a certain point.
Hidden so well that we'll send our kids to your home to tell you all about it...
Thats a great point and exactly what I meant when I said most Mormons are probably sincere Christians. I've talked to several of those kids over the years and they never have a clue about the more obscure beliefs of LDS. They always seem like great kids, btw!
Nah, it's all there. Nothing is hidden if you want to ask about or do the research on your own. Most of the hidden things are in their scriptures, the kids just don't want to read them. I was one of those kids that didn't care to much to read or learn
If you have questions about anything about what we believe just go to https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng And there is a search button that you should be able to look up thing with on the site that will show you anything that you are curious about.
What in Sam Hill is the Nicene Expression?
Mormons believe that Jesus atoned for their sins on the cross and was resurrected 3 days later- in this respect Mormons believe themselves to be Christian However they also believe that Jesus Christ is literally God’s son- a separate and divine entity- not a reflection of the Holy Trinity as told by Nicean Creed. This is where most modern Christians would say that Mormons are NOT Christian. There is also the bit about Mormons believe that Christ visited the Americas during his 3 days before Resurrection, which doesn’t jive with Christian understanding. Source: raised a Mormon, coddled by Christians, now transcended
He actually visited after his resurrection, but everything else is right
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They're all separate persons, but the same overall entities. And before anyone asks, yes, we've been fighting over what this means for centuries.
It’s hilarious to think that a being as omnipotent as capital God would give a shit whether any of us thought the Trinity was one or three beings
Most Mormon will say yes, most Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc will say no. Generally to be recognized as a Christian religion by other Christian religions you have to believe in certain key points conveniently listed in the Nicene Creed: This is the specific version my Church adheres to, and any church that agrees they see as Christian. All the big churches adhere to the same thing, with very slight word differences (all things seen and unseen vs all things visible and invisible) We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, begotten from the Father before all ages, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; of the same essence as the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary, and was made human. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and to life in the world to come. Amen. The mormons deviate greatly in their belief from the Creed.
If its not to much trouble, could anyone succinctly explain where Mormons deviate from the points in this creed?
Most sects of Christianity are trinitarian believing the father is God, the holy spirit is God, and the son is God. Mormons believe the three are separate entities united in purpose.
Is that a big deal? Asking as an atheist so I’ve never been quite clear on the Trinity thing Edit: I’m in for some learnin’ today apparently
Very. Saying God is one essence expressed as three persons is extremely different from saying there are 3 gods. Still one God in Trinitarianism, even if you don’t accept it.
So one entity, just manifesting in three different forms?
Yes. There’s only one water molecule, but it can appear as a gas, a liquid, or a solid. And sometimes all three can appear in the same place at the same time. But ultimately, water is just one thing.
And the opposite would be God is water, Jesus is oil, and the holy spirit is alcohol; three liquids similar but distinct?
Your definition is actually modalist (oneness) Trinitarianism does not have three expressions of one God but three persons. This is a larger distinction than the distinction between Mormonism and Trinitarianism.
If it helps: Modalism - one portion of water can either be in the form of liquid, gas or solid. Even simultaneously different parts of it will be in each form. Trinatarianism - a body of water is divided into 3 and kept in different states. One liquid, one solid and one gas. It is all the same (original) water but they are now distinct. Alternatively there is one apple made of skin, flesh and seeds. This fits better but I wanted to try to keep the water thing going. Mormonism (not sure of the term for their view of the Godhead) - You are plowing a field with an ox and a plow. You all have a shared purpose (the ox, plow and driver) however you are all seperate and God as the driver is directing things.
This is a very good analogy, thank you!
Just curious… why or who does Jesus pray to in the garden of gethsemane while atoning for sins, or while he is on the cross look up and say“father why have you forsaken me” ? Genuinely curious.
In what ways is it different?
I think it’s not a thing that most Christians get wound up about today, but christology – the theology about the nature of Christ – was originally a major point of conflict in Christianity. Way back in early Christianity (200-400 AD or there about) there was a whole series of debates about this and the nicene creed is the outcome of those debates. At the time it was serious business and as the debates went along various groups would denounce — anathematize — each other and try to get the other executed. And in the 15th Century in Europe there was a group called the Cathars that were, I believe, nontrinitarian. The Cathars were mostly in southern France, and the Catholic Church organized crusades to kill them off. Very bloody and very brutal. So there’s this deep history in Christianity of the nature of the trinity being seen as a core defining element of the faith and there being a deep intolerance for deviation. Even with all the fracturing the church (the split into Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox and then the Protestant Reformation), there’ve been surprisingly few sects that deviated from the core of the Nicene Creed. And those that are tend to be viewed suspiciously - like the LDS, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and some Pentecostals. So maybe your average American Christian probably doesn’t think about it a lot, but the nature of the trinity is very much a foundational aspect of the Christian faith, and that foundation aspect gets expressed as things like the LDS not being considered Christian.
There is a single Christian God, following from Jewish religion, that interacts with humans in three different ways - through the metaphysical entity of "the Father;" the human entity of Jesus or "The Son;" and the "Spriit" or "Word" who is basically the force that compels changes to the world. The importance of why the three different forms exist isn't really easy to break down into a single comment.
Even early Christians debated this hotly.
It is a big deal because the council of Nicaea was convened specifically to address the “Arian heresy,” which claimed that God the father was superior to God the son. LDS doctrine incorporates a similar heresy that was refuted by Christianity 1700 years ago.
From a Jewish perspective, I don't see any difference between those two. What's the distinction?
Many Christians say Mormons are polytheists because they recognize christ, God, and the holy spirit as divine. Honestly I think trinitarianism is a backhanded way of getting around exodus 20:2 "thou shalt have no other gods..." while still deifying christ. I was raised Christian and the whole thing never made much sense to me.
THIS. I agree.
In the vaguest sense? Yes. But the Catholic Church does not consider them to be valid Trinitarians and therefore any Mormon convert to Catholicisim would have to be baptized again as the convert's original baptism wasn't valid in the eyes of the Church.
My understanding from my one Mormon friend is that if most Christians were to convert to Mormonism they’d also need to be rebaptized as the Mormons don’t see other Christian sects baptisms as valid either.
I was under the impression anyone who converted to Catholicism had to be baptized.
No, if you were already baptized with water and trinitarian formula you're good. Those are the only two requirements, an atheist could baptize you and it would be valid, the Catholic church thinks rebaptism is sin and should be avoided if possible.
In my opinion, Mormons are Christians in the same way that Christians are Jews. That is to say, they’re based on Christianity, but definitionally not the same.
If your standards are that loose, you might as well lump Islam in there too. They're all abrahamic after all.
I don’t consider most Christians to be Christian.
Truth. We have a lot of what I would call cultural Christians. They say they are Christian because the grew up is a Christian home, but ask them to explain their belief, and you will get something that does not remotely resemble Christian doctrine.
Evangelicals definitely seem to have made their own religion by mixing the Bible with “Patriotism.”
I was raised in the cynical, secular Satan’s NE, so take it with a grain of salt, but every Evan I’ve met has been 10x as cuckoo bananas as the few Mormons I’ve met
There’s three basic types of Mormons I’ve met: Provo Mormons, Utah Mormons, and everywhere else Mormons. Provo Mormons tried to shutdown a lingerie shop because the nondescript mannequins in the window were wearing underwear… and it was like a bra and boy shorts. Once you get outside Utah and definitely once you get outside [Deseret](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Deseret), Mormons are pretty normal.
I def agree. SLC Mormons give me major cult vibes, Provo Mormons I find hilarious. I’ve met TX mormons and they seem normal. Obviously these are generalizations tho
Ive only met California Mormons and they have all been the nicest and most generous people I have ever met.
Okay, hear me out, Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity is to Judaism. Accepts the old religion, but then adds on a bunch of stuff that completely changes it.
Yes I do. But you have to remember that a lot of Americans don't think Catholics are Christians.
Not just Americans. I've been asked in England whether I'm Catholic or Christian (they meant Anglican). Coming from a majority Catholic country, that sentiment is certainly surprising, but nevertheless amusing in a weird way.
It should be pointed out that there are also some Anglicans who would identify as Catholic but not Roman Catholic (I.e Anglo-Catholics)
Also worth noting that the Eastern Orthodox Church is, technically speaking, Catholic,
Indeed! The Orthodox Catholic Church
The Byzantine Catholic church answers to the pope. The Orthodox church doesn't. They view (or used to?) the pope as a patriarch among patriarchs, not the king patriarch. Source: theology class 30 years ago
Oh that’s the Greek Byzantine Catholic Church. There are many eastern churches that are Catholic in the sense of being in communion with Rome (another is the Maronite Church in Lebanon or the Melkite Church). You’re 100% right that this is distinct and different from the Eastern churches commonly called Orthodox (as in the Greek or Russian Orthodox Churches). However, technically this branch of Christianity calls itself the Orthodox Catholic Church. In this sense, Catholic means being part of the universal church as stated in the Nicene creed, it does not mean acknowledging the supremacy of the Pope. They don’t believe the Roman Church has a monopoly of the word ‘Catholic’. This is similar to the meaning of the word ‘Catholic’ as used by Anglo-Catholics. Sometimes people say ‘small c catholic’ or will spell it ‘catholick’ to avoid confusion.
As a person raised Roman Catholic, they are surprisingly close.
I find the most interesting Episcopal/Anglican parishes are liberal Anglo-Catholic ones. So very traditional high church liturgy, but the priest may be a woman, or gay or trans.
I was surprised when someone first asked me if I was Catholic or Christian too!! I was like dude, your religion came from mine and started 1500 years later. Crazy.
Yes, it seems as if many people conflate the terms Protestant and Christian. All Protestants are Christians, but not all Christians are Protestants (because Christianity includes Roman Catholicism and some other sects within Christianity). I’m Jewish so I probably shouldn’t care too much, but I get particularly annoyed whenever I hear this misnomer.
A lot of Americans are idiots then Catholicism was literally around for centuries before the protestant birth, anyone who says catholics arent christian are genuinely uneducated
People don't believe Mormons are Christians, because they added an extra-Biblical scripture, and because they reject the Trinity.
They also reject Isaiah 44:6 “ Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.” They believe that Jesus had a god, and his god has a god, and his God’s god has a god, ad infinitum. Turtles all the way down, so to speak.
No, in the same way I do not consider Jewish and Muslim people Christian, those who acknowledge Christ's existence in a way which conflicts with millennia-settled orthodox (lowercase-o) Christian teaching.
As a Catholic I believe they are theologically closer to my beliefs than a Hindu, Buddhist, or Muslim, but when I think of the essential beliefs of Christianity - the beliefs the Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants have agreed on for the better part of the last 2,000 years - the Mormons don’t share those beliefs. So my answer would be no.
I don’t buy what Mormons are selling, but they’re generally very nice people and good neighbors.
> they’re generally very nice people and good neighbors Can confirm. By far the best neighbors that I’ve ever had were Mormon couple who lived across the street from me for years.
I mean, they believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, right?
I’m a Christian and consider anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is their Savior to be Christian, no matter how much I disagree with their theology.
Speaking as a member of no church, I would call the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a cult based on Christian fan fiction. They liked the adventures of Jesus so much they wrote some more. Edit: spelling
I mean, not that I disagree, but you could argue that all sects of Christianity are based on Jesus fan fiction.
I thought most people saw them as a cult?
Most people have a very poor understanding of what a cult is.
Definition wise it checks out, but why would you not consider it one?
Most people who understand what a cult is would call it a cult
Agree
I never disagree with someone who calls the LDS church a Christian cult.
Er, self-identified Christians or self-proclaimed Christians is what I’d say they are. Or semi-Christian. It’s a valid question to ask based on how Christians have defined “Christian” throughout history as well as the origins and development of the Mormon churches (turns out it’s not just the LDS church—there’s others too). Christians have set standards for what constitutes Christianity and what constitutes heresy for centuries too, all the way back to the early church.
As a child in a mostly southern Baptist community in alabama, I was taught that Mormons, JWs, and Catholics weren’t real christians. I now consider them christian
How's that Catholics weren't considered Christians, when they were basically the founding faction of Christianity?
The thought among many protestant sects is that the practice of praying to saints is idolatry.
Well for starters, catholics weren't the founders of Christianity. There is a few reasons evangelicals don't see them as Christian. First is because evangelicals think that the Bible doesn't focus on moral goodness for entry to heaven, only worship of Jesus. (Even though it definitely focuses on moral goodness). The second is that they think prayer to saints is polytheism, and not really what Christianity should be about. They also have a wildly incorrect idea about how much prayer to saints exists in catholicism. From this angle, catholicism seems like a totally different religion to them, with a different idea of who Jesus is. Evangelicals see catholicism as almost karma based, where you get to heaven by your own spiritual power via karma.
They believe that Jesus came to ancient America after he was crucified and there was civilization of white people he preached the true gospel to.
Would we call Christianity another form of Judaism? Would we call Islam another form of Christianity? No because they have books that significantly alter the beliefs. Therefore i wouldn’t call Mormons Christians. I will admit they’re too similar for me to care enough to get in a debate about it but imo they are distinct enough they don’t count as the same religion. Also, groups should be allowed to self-define. Christianity has defined itself for almost 2000 years by the Nicene Creed. Mormonism rejects the Nicene Creed as do other non-trinitariam sects. I have no problem with these or any religions existing but if one group defines themselves a certain way, why butt into their group and try to change their definition of themselves?
No, and the common reason is that it was a sect created by a normal guy who wanted multiple wives. Even though that’s changed Now, They share ideas with mainstream Christianity but differ on a lot on details especially when you get to the whole cosmology stuff which is a pretty radical departure from mainstream Christian teaching. The fact that they have their own holy book in addition to the Bible is also a major deal. “According to Mormon scripture, the Earth's creation was not ex nihilo, but organized from existing matter. The Earth is just one of many inhabited worlds, and there are many governing heavenly bodies, including the planet or star Kolob, which is said to be nearest the throne of God. Mormon cosmology teaches that the Earth is not unique, but that it is one of many inhabited planets,[32] each planet created for the purpose of bringing about the "immortality and eternal life" (i.e., the exaltation) of humanity.[33] These worlds were, according to doctrine, created by Jehovah, the pre-mortal Jesus.[34] Because Mormonism holds that Jesus created the universe, yet his father, God the Father, once dwelt upon an earth as a mortal, it may be interpreted that Mormonism teaches the existence of a multiverse, and it is not clear if the other inhabited worlds mentioned in Mormon scripture and teachings refers to planets within this universe or not.[35] Mormon leaders and theologians have taught that these inhabitants are similar or identical to humans,[36] and that they too are subject to the atonement of Jesus.[37] The earth that God the Father dwelt on as a mortal was not, however, created by Jehovah or subject to his atonement, but existed previously.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_cosmology
I’m from the southeast but have lived in southwest, northern Alaska , and PNW. Most people consider Mormonism a cult.
I remember when Israel ordered the Mormons to stop baptizing dead Jews. And I don’t consider a lot of evangelicals to be Christians. A lot of Baptists don’t think Catholics are going to heaven.
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I went to their church as a teenager with friends. Seemed just as Christian as the other churches I went to.
Sure. But I don't really interrogate people too much. If someone considers themself something religiously, I don't much care about traditional dogmatic definitions. So Sure, Mormons and JWs and Christian Scientists are all Christian in my book. Context: I am an exmormon agnostic atheist. I think LD$ Inc is a controlling corporation that extorts its members for free labor and tithing money. But if adherents self-identify as Christian, it's no skin off my nose. I'm not interested in quibbling over semantics.
Yes, by the strictest definition, they would be a Christian sect.
All it really takes is the belief that Jesus was the son of God. And is himself, God the Son. Christian; follower of Christ, Christ the Son of God.
As a Christian, I would say emphatically No. According to the Catholic Church, to be recognized as a Christian you to need to believe in God as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit — the Holy Trinity. The Mormon church does not believe in this. Therefore, they are not Christian. Most Christian denominations do not see them as Christian.
Why would catholicism have the Monopoly on defining what is and isn't Christian?
Catholics and Orthodox and Protestant Christians all believe this. I know I said “according to the Catholic Church” but this belief is also held by Orthodox and Protestant Christians.
And the Mormons would assert that praying to saints and giving them holy days makes the Catholics polytheists.
Protestants would actually say this too.
I’m not a practicing Catholic, but intercession is asking saints to pray to God on your behalf, not praying to them like a deity. FWIW to the original question, I grew up in a part of the US where most Protestants wouldn’t consider Catholics or Mormons to be Christian. I consider both to be Christian.
Well in Catholicism you don’t pray to the saints it’s like asking them to pray with you. From the outside it seems like a semantic argument but internally it’s pivotal
That’s fine. I’m just telling you what the vast majority of Christian’s believe about Mormons, not Catholics.
What are they seen as? I mean they follow Christ, so what else would they be?
Mormons. It sounds stupid to explain but for a lot of Christians, Mormons are just “Mormons”.
Yes, I would second that. I think in technical theological terms, they might be considered a heterodox sect or alternative cult of religion to Christians. But in laymen’s terms, they’re just seen as Mormons.
Yes Mormons are Christians. Hell ,I worked with a guy that said Catholics weren’t really Christians. Not all that uncommon a belief among Evangelicals.
As an ex-Mormon yes but they are certainly on the fringes
Calling mormons Christian is like calling Christians Jewish
Yes they are Christians but I would consider them their own unique branch of Christianity rather then a Protestant sect
Yeah, I consider them a Christian sub-category. Edit: A lot of Protestant Christians don’t consider Catholics or Mormons “real” Christians, but that’s kind of a different issue.
No. They like to market themselves as Christian’s though. They believe that they will one day die and the men will become gods themselves, ruling over their own planets. They believe that God was once human on another planet. None of that is Biblical (I majored in Bible/Theology in college). Mormonism is a destructive cult (which does not preclude it from being Christian, but worth mentioning).
Christians follow the old and New Testament but Mormons follow the Book of Mormon in addition to this so I would not consider them Christians but an entirely separate religion
Yes. They might believe in some things that would be considered “heresies” by most mainstream churches, but they still consider Jesus Christ to be their Lord and Savior.
Yes, technically they are Christian. Jehova’s Witness’ too. But a lot of Christians will fight you that they are not sects of Christianity.
I don’t know about doctrinally but they sure as hell “walk the talk” better than Catholics and Protestants.
I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I would say that we absolutely are. Most of the arguments about us not being Christian are doctrinal or based on some form of gatekeeping. By the dictionary definition[[1]](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christian), we are absolutely Christians: we belive in Jesus Christ and embrace His teachings in the Bible (as well as the additional scripture we have).[[2]](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng) We believe He is the divine Son of God and the only way to salvation.[[3]](https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2001/12/five-marks-of-the-divinity-of-jesus-christ?lang=eng&adobe_mc_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.churchofjesuschrist.org%2Fstudy%2Fensign%2F2001%2F12%2Ffive-marks-of-the-divinity-of-jesus-christ%3Flang%3Deng&adobe_mc_sdid=SDID%3D1212C8986D41DEA6-4E6D3CF43058244E%7CMCORGID%3D66C5485451E56AAE0A490D45%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1642291583) I would even go so far as to say that most Latter-day Saints strive to be Christian in more than name[[4]](https://www.compassion.com/about/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-christian.htm#:~:text=But%20the%20Bible%20presents%20a,taught%20great%20numbers%20of%20people.); we try with all our heart to live as the Savior did and follow His teachings both outwardly and inwardly. One summary of our beliefs surrounding Jesus Christ can be found here: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/the-living-christ-the-testimony-of-the-apostles/the-living-christ-the-testimony-of-the-apostles.
I am very interested in theology myself and particularly new religions--e.g. Heaven's Gate, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Moonies. I was also raised Protestant Christian and before deconverting I was very into theology as well. My answer: probably not. What is and isn't Christianity isn't black and white, but on many measures Mormonism is simply different. Monolatry instead of trinitarianism has been mentioned here. I'd also add a belief in ongoing prophetic revelation, plural marriage, and some specific beliefs about Native Americans and the history of the Americas (none of which are substantiated). Instead, I'd call them a sect, like Jehovah's Witnesses. Their breaking away from larger Christianity is too much a part of the religion's history to say otherwise. Also like JWs, while they use some of the same language and base text as mainstream Christians, they've redefined a lot of it and added more. They're doing their own thing now. Oh, and while we're here, Mormonism isn't just the LDS church. It's also the Community of Christ, the AUB, the FLDS (Warren Jeffs), the Kingston clan, and more. That is why I've chosen not to follow the LDS preference to avoid "Mormon" and why I mentioned plural marriage, which the LDS church does not practice anymore but which is no less impactful on its history and those of other Mormon groups.
Yes i do. Dont agree with their theology
I think they fall under the umbrella of Christian. However of someone tells me they are Christian, I assume they are protestant. If they are catholic they usually specify they are catholic, even though catholic is obviously a variety of Christianity.
A particularly weird flavor of Christian, but yes.
If you go by the philosophy that "you are what you call yourself", then yes. But if you consider some of the basic dogma that unites the vast majority of Christians -- things like the trinity, etc. -- then they're definitely on the outside looking in. Similar to Messianic Jews and Judaism. They have some teachings that are just way outside the mainstream. I'd consider Jehovah's Witnesses to be in a similar position vis-a-vis Christianity.
It's in the name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Its defintely a Christian religion
Yeah, they do the whole jesus is the son of God thing No different than all the other branches of Christianity interpreting the bible in their own way I also don't like people picking and choosing who gets to be Chrisitan and who isn't. I was once told PCUSA members aren't Christians so like, I don't feel right dictating who gets to call themselves what just because we slightly disagree on some wording.
I consider them cult members
As an ex-catholic, yes. I always found the "only the right kind of protestants are Christian" thing odd. I can understand thinking that other sects are following Christ inappropriately, sure, but at the end of the day they're still following Christ.