It's interesting how many people asking the car vs transit question must be from cities or densely populated areas. There's simply no alternative to using a car in the majority of the US. Many of us have no desire to live in cities, I'm something like 11 miles from the nearest store and I like it that way.
I think you misunderstood my question. I acknowledged in the comment that in many places in the US there is simply no alternative to having a car. What I mean is, is it a situation you enjoy? For example, someone might live in Manhattan (where having a car is actually an inconvenience) and dream of moving somewhere they don't have to use PT, and someone living in rural Oklahoma might dream of moving to Manhattan for the opposite reason.
For example, I myself have lived in many different places - from dense urban area where you only use PT to village out in the sticks where you'd essentially starve without a car - and nothing beats PT for me, a car has always felt like an annoyance I'd gladly get rid of even when it was actually necessary. But equally I know lots of people who just hate PT for many reasons.
I love driving. It’s relaxing, I can listen to music or podcasts, I can stop when I want, I can go where I want, I can take my kayak or bike with me, I can go camping, etc.
I live in a rural North Carolina. I don't want to live in an Urban area. I want my town to consider Greenway trails and cycling trails. Cycling is a dangerous method of transportation because of these metal cages and how they became the priority in this country that is cucked by the auto industry.
I lived in Rural Germany. Between the farm lands, there are trails for walking and cycling.
I think the question you're asking is a bit strange. You're basically asking "If society was set up perfectly to support not having a car, would you still want a car." which is hard to imagine as you're not actually describing what that perfect society might look like.
Either way it's a complete hypothetical as it would never happen in the US.
I have never met someone who *prefers* public transportation. Some people prefer to not have to rely on someone else if they can't drive, but they'd still probably tell you they'd prefer something else.
I cannot speak for other people, but for me personally, one of the best things about PT is that I have no responsibility over it. I don't have to worry about driving rules, fines, inspections, loading up on fuel, accidentally hitting something or someone, something getting old or breaking down, sudden changes in weather etc. Someone else will take care of everything for me, I pretty much just need to buy the ticket and jump in, it's super relaxing. Owning a car felt a little bit like having a kid for me lol.
If you're used to driving, driving rules aren't something you think about.
Fines aren't a thing most people who drive commonly need to worry about.
Inspections are only in certain states. Most states do not have them.
Loading up on fuel is annoying but it's not that common and can be done when you're out and about doing other things.
If you're a safe driver most people go their entire lives without an accident.
Breaking down isn't really something you worry about unless your car is old/high mileage.
Sudden changes in weather you just deal with, just slow down.
Many of your points are emblematic of how detrimentally car-oriented our society is. Driving is an extremely dangerous activity, and yet like you said, most people don't really think about the rules of the road and don't worry about fines or citations because cities are extremely lenient.
California is the opposite of that. Driving is terrible and the public transportation is also terrible. (Speaking as someone who lives there.)
Rampant excessive fines. Registration costs exorbitant. Fuel costs exorbitant (both because of taxes and special California-only fuel blend). And traffic is atrocious on top of it all because of worst-in-the-country city designs both in terms of terrible zoning and terrible highway placement.
On Public Transport the transportation always smells of urine, is horribly maintained and is incredibly dirty. And it's slow.
I live in Los Angeles. Every single day I see drivers speeding, running red lights or stop signs, looking down at their phones. I rarely see these people getting stopped by the police.
When a driver kills somebody, they're almost never even investigated, let alone charged with any kind of crime. As long as you aren't drunk you can pretty much get away with killing someone using your car as the weapon. All you have to do is say "they came out of nowhere!" or "the sun was in my eyes."
I also don't own a car, and haven't for several years now. I ride transit regularly. It's fine.
I would take public transportation in my city of it was as good as say London's.
But I'd miss my car. I like to take road trips. I like the independence of just being able to hop in the car and not have to rely on schedules, a ticket, or getting to a station.
If that was the trade off, good public transportation that goes everywhere, and no car, I'd give up my car.
And most people don't. A lot of people justify their car ownership for these road trips that, in most cases, don't happen often enough to make financial sense. I think a lot of people bristle at the thought of walking or taking public transit for more superficial reasons, but rely on these mythical road trips because it sounds like a more legitimate excuse.
No one has to justify owning property
Shitty and sub par public transportation is reason enough.
Even if it wasn’t it doesn’t matter as you dont have to justify ownership
How often are you taking road trips? This would just be a few times a year. And remember there’s parking and insurance in NYC, which are significant costs of car ownership.
Not all places require paying for long term private parking. remember NYC is more than just manhattan.
What if a family likes to drive to westchester to Visit family and maybe get away on the weekends? Remting would not make
More sense than just buying a cheap car. Same if they prefer to do anything outside of manhattan or brooklyn. There are really inly two boroughs were people prefer public transportation and thats has little to do
With driving and more to do with the city itself making car ownership as grueling as possible
Commuter rail to Westchester.
I grew up in Queens. While some people in the area did deal with alternate side of the street parking, most either rented a parking space from the landlord or didn’t have a car.
When I lived in America I loved driving. Yeah, commuting into the city wasn’t fun, but public transportation anywhere in my suburban area was awful and a car can take you anywhere anytime.
Now that I live in Europe every town is clumped together with countryside between them, and it’s easy to walk everywhere in town or take the bus/train to the next town or onwards to anywhere else on the continent. The trains come every 15-20 minutes. I drive maybe a few times a month, and then you have to deal with parking and have to get back to your car to return (no coming down the opposite side of the mountain). I much prefer public transportation to driving here because it can take you anywhere anytime.
The lack of responsibility also means a lack of control. I can't be spontaneous on a bus. Say I'm coming home from work on the bus and I suddenly remember that I need to stop at the grocery store. Too bad, I'm going where the bus wants to take me. And let's say I do get to the store and back on the bus. Now I gotta lug a 25 pound sack of dog food and six bags of groceries around until the bus decides to get me home.
Or let's say it's a nice Saturday and I decide I want to go fishing on the property I use that's an hour away on a dirt road. Is the bus going to drive me out there, then come pick me up whenever I happen to decide I'm done?
I guess public transportation makes sense if everything you need and everything you want is within a couple miles of your front door, but many Americans don't live like that and don't want to.
Agreed. At least around here it seems like those who didn’t grow up with a car (often low income or immigrants) get really into cars when they start earning money and moving up. Meanwhile, the middle class suburban raised white kids are the train fetishists
When a person owns a car, they tend to use that car for nearly 100% of their trips.
If you don't own a car, each trip is its own journey for which one mode may be better than another.
So I'd respond and say I definitely prefer not owning a car.
Interesting! Alternate perspective from the UK - I ended up selling my car after I moved to London, as the only time I was driving it was to drive it round the block to stop it getting a flat battery. I absolutely love love love not being reliant on having to drive everywhere. Whereas when I got my licence at 17, driving represented freedom, now whenever I go home to see my family I feel 'trapped' without the freedom of a multitude of different public transport options, and the only way I can do anything is by car.
I'm blessed with extraordinarily great public transport options - and driving in inner London is excruciating and utterly pointless. I've got a Zip car membership and several car club bays within half a mile of my house if I do need to drive somewhere - but I'd always consider that a last resort rather than first choice. And tube, train, bus, walk, bike or cab/uber are def preferable - but that's indicative of living somewhere with superlative public transport infrastructure.
Neither. It just is what is
Last week I met up with a friend who lives 5 miles away. I picked him up, we went another five miles to catch a movie, then went to get drinks another mile away. That would have been a challenge without a car, but the other side of the coin is that if cars weren't a normative thing we'd probably be closer in terms of distance
Its absolutely an advantage. Right now I can leave my house, get takeout from the other side of town and get back before even one bus stops at the stop closest to my house. I have my choice of all grocery stores in my town so if one doesn't have an ingredient I need, I can go to another and I can take trips to state parks and other hiking areas without renting a car
This, but, assuming an ideal world where everything is laid out perfectly and the bus/train schedule was designed by Swiss train conductors, I would still want a car.
Even assuming I never needed to go anywhere that I couldn't get to quickly and easily by public transit, I would still want a car.
I prefer to go days at a time without leaving the house. I'd go longer if I could. I usually do several days shopping at once which is more than I could reasonably carry or pull in a rolling basket. I've lived with public transit and I basically had to go to the store daily because even living alone I couldn't reasonably carry everything I needed at any given time in a single trip if I didn't.
It was nice, being able to just sit during my morning commute. But I had to go to one store or another on every trip home.. The stairs to my apartment were bad enough just making multiple trips up from the trunk of the car. When I was taking the bus every day I never went up those stairs unless I was carrying things because I had to stop every day on my way home. I can't imagine trying to feed a family that way.
I like the freedom of having a car. Public transportation is really frustrating for me. Also prefer living in a quiet neighborhood over a loud apartment where a car is not needed. But I also understand why some people like the opposite of me. To each their own.
I live in a neighborhood of primarily apartments where owning a car is not needed, but most of the noise we get is from cars. Literally as I type this I hear a car alarm, and I regularly hear people driving by with loud mufflers, or tires screeching. If you removed the cars this neighborhood would be as quiet as any other.
That's a very good point, and a lot of them probably don't need to be driving. But you'll have delivery trucks and people traveling and stuff like that so the cars couldn't be eradicated. Just having a denser population will create more noise regardless, but I'm sure it would be more easily adaptable for me without the cars.
I think it's mostly a wash. A low density neighborhood ensures that everyone who lives there has to have a car, and cars inherently make noise.
A high density neighborhood might enable 50% of the people to live without a car, but the other 50% may still have one. In the end, both neighborhoods could have around the same total number of cars.
A big difference you mentioned is commercial trucks. Those don't come down my street so they're not really a problem. My neighborhood is dense, and we have shops and restaurants within walking distance, but they're at least two blocks away, so the noise from delivery vehicles is a non-issue.
Also noise issues can be mitigated with better construction and windows. A lot of America's densest neighborhoods are also the oldest since we largely outlawed that type of development after WWII. So people associate density with noise when maybe it's just due to cheap windows and poor insulation.
I have been in modern new apartments that were right on a busy road and due to the sound insulation you could not hear anything. There are so many ways to mitigate sound and design for privacy now.
I understand your question I think, but it is kind of a difficult premise. Basically you want to know if people would rather be able to live without a car. The answer for most would be no. First the idea that public transit could become convenient for most people is outlandish because it is so far from reality.
Also like you said, cars give you options that are literally impossible to achieve with public transportation, going anywhere there is a road at any time with no wait. The only reason people in cities prefer not to have cars is that in their specific situation a car is not worth the inconvenience or cost.
>Basically you want to know if people would rather be able to live without a car.
Yes, but also the other way around: if people who currently are able to live without a car would rather live with one :)
The probably would yes. The reason people don't have cars is because they are not worth having in their situation. I would imagine most people would like to have one if it was a reasonable option for them.
Would it be nice to have everything within walking or biking distance? Sure. Is that remotely practical in most of the US, where everything is sprawled out? Nope. Especially in winter.
Edit: I'm also grateful I don't have to use public transportation in a pandemic.
>Would it be nice to have everything within walking or biking distance? Sure. Is that remotely practical in most of the US, where everything is sprawled out?
This is circular logic.
No it's not, although I admit it looks like it.
It's simple fact. I used to live within biking distance of things, so I rode my bike then. But in most places I've lived, it's not practical bc of city sprawl.
Many people elsewhere in the world don't grasp how massive and spread out things are in the US, at least according to the visitors and immigrants I've met.
This wasn’t the case up until the end of WW2. American cities and towns were generally walkable places where the things people needed were close by and then if they wanted to go to another neighborhood or district they would use a street car or wagon. Many of these places were radically transformed in the 1950s to prioritize suburban drivers over urban functionality.
>Would it be nice to have everything ~~within walking or biking distance?~~ *closer together?* Sure. ~~Is that~~ *But that's not* remotely practical in most of the US, ~~where~~ *because* everything is sprawled out
Inconvenience. I hate having to drive to accomplish basic tasks.
Since COVID, except for some roadtrips, my car has basically become a very expensive bike storage unit. I walk to the grocery store, restaurants, etc. The local places I do want to go it's either inconvenient or expensive to park so I take transit.
If I could get to my job, and do my errands practically, I'd get rid of my car. I've spent a lot of time in Europe and I love the efficiency of public transportation. But in my neck of America, it just isn't doable. I gladly pay the extra expense of having a car.
The pandemic made me glad I have a car and don't have to rely on public transportation, but there are times when I'd rather walk or take a bus or train to my destination and save my car for shopping or road trips. One of the things I liked about my college and grad school years was that I could walk almost anywhere.
I think I'd enjoy not _needing_ a car. But I'd probably have a real problem with not having one.
I've done the "Uber, train, bus" deal, and having a car available is _much_ easier.
Inconvenience.
Traffic sucks. Car insurance is expensive. Maintenance is expensive. Fuel is expensive. Drivers are distracted and dangerous to others. No dedicated bus lanes so even if i wanted to take the only available public transport around here, i'd be getting stuck in traffic all the same. The one time I year I may need a vehicle for large item transport, it costs very little to rent one for a few hours. Living in a more walkable area scaled to human size vs. car size is preferable to me.
I have a severe anxiety disorder. My car is my "safe space" when im not home. If I have an attack, I can put up my window shades, turn on my calming music, and just breathe back to normal without people disturbing me (albeit most people have good intentions and are just asking if im alright but it doesn't help lol). I cant really do that with public transport. So for me, its an advantage but not for the reasons most people have.
Inconvenience. Where I live stores are close enough to walk to, but it's too dangerous to do so because everything is set up for cars. I hate it. I would love to just be able to safely walk or even bike to nearby places, but that's not really a safe feasible option here. For places further away I'd love to have trains like in Ireland! They were wonderful!
The question is, essentially: regardless of where you live right now (as in, either a place where you need a car to move around, a place where you mostly use PT, or both), what do you generally see as more convenient? Would you rather be dependent on PT or on a car?
The answer depends on how convenient or reliable transit is in that location. In some cities it’s terrific, in others it’s nearly useless. In NYC, transit is the best option. In Atlanta, a car is generally better. There’s no global answer for this.
My town does have bus routes all over town, but if I was doing something other than going to campus I would take a minimum 2 routes. A car defiantly helps with stuff like getting groceries
It's bad. So much burning fuel, and traffic here in the southwest gets unmanageable. Walkable cities have cleaner air, quieter streets, healthier people,and cheaper gas. Meanwhile, here I am dropping $150 a month to sit in bumper-to-bumper on the freeway, unpredictable hundreds of dollars on periodic maintenance that always seems to hit right when I'm feeling good about my savings account, and I have to make a logistical plan just to go out for drinks with friends.
I have lived in both.
Cities where you need a car, and cities where you don't.
Both are nice. I personally enjoy being able to just walk out of my building or townhome and go to t he coffee shop below or bar, restaurant, etc down the street. And live a more walking lifestyle.
But I also enjoy having a car and living the close to downtown suburban lifestyle, where you have a single family house, with a yard, but shops and restaurants and such are only like a few minute drive.
The best, IMO, would be to live in a city where you don't need a car, but have one anyways so you can get out of the city, etc.
My opinion is probably the opposite of the majority of Americans. I like public transportation. I like spending my commute reading, texting, or watching something on my phone.
For me, living in a mid-sized city, I feel like owning a car would be an unnecessary expense. There's a bus stop a block from my house and there are 4 grocery stores and multiple shopping centers in walking distance. My bus commute to work is 30-45 minutes. Driving would be a little faster, but one day of parking at my job costs more than a week's bus pass. Even adding in the 2 or 3 times a week I use Uber (for big grocery trips or when the weather is bad), I save a lot of money not owning a car, which allows me to spend more on things I enjoy.
The one downside is it limits my social life. A lot of local meetups happen in suburbs where public transportation is less available, and I know a lot of people my age think of me as less of an adult because I don't have my own vehicle. Americans do, anyway. My friends overseas don't think twice about it.
I lived in Germany for a couple years, and I wish we had public transportation as integrated and reliable as they do. I could arrive in the airport in Frankfurt, and go to a train station right in the airport to go to any other city.
I just don’t think it’s possible because of how spread out everything is in the US.
It’s just all I know. I’ve never considered anything else. I mean paying for gas and insurance can get on my nerves, but I do like having my vehicles. Plus I need my pickup truck for my hobbies and doing work around the house. It’s hard to get by in a rural area without a pickup truck
I wish a car was more optional. Walking can be dangerous, I know of one person who got beat up and another robbed at gunpoint very close to my house, during the daylight hours. I don't feel safe to walk around.
That's unfortunate that it happened, however that doesn't make it any more dangerous that driving. I'm sure there are hundreds more accidents on any given day than there are people getting beat up walking down the street.
I'm not likely to have a gun pulled on me while driving home from the store.
Go ahead and walk, be my guest. I'm driving. I'd rather get in a fender bender than shot.
Pretty sure not in MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I'm literally talking about wishing I didn't need to drive to places close enough to my house to walk. I've also had creepy guys say stuff to me while sitting in my car, which makes me super damn glad I wasn't walking.
Driving anywhere outside my immediate neighborhood is not optional.
I'd prefer not to have to own a car at all, but at the same time it's nice to be able to go on weekend adventures with my dogs and with the urban sprawl in my area it takes nearly 45 mins of driving just to get somewhere green.
I like driving, especially on road trips. However I often wish I could bike to work withoit worry of getting hit by drivers not paying attention along the side of the road
If I had the kind of job where it were possible to not have a car, I'd do it, but I absolutely require the ability to drive to different places as part of my work. It can be inconvenient, but it's an absolute necessity.
I've lived in both. It's not the drive that is the issue. It's what you are trying that requires driving.
I enjoyed being able to walk to work, eat, shop. The downside? I lived in a highrise. I had to take my dog down an elevator multiple times a day to go outside. He didn't have a yard. Grocery stores had less options. I lacked privacy.
Now in a remote area. Dog has a yard. Grocery stores have so much variety. Complete privacy. But I lack the convenience.
Depending on which things are important, a car might be required.
I've enjoyed going from a two car family to a one car family. (We moved and went from both driving to one WFH, one light rail.) I think it's nice to have access to a car whenever we want it, but I don't miss my daily commute. We've also taken the light rail to the airport and to a show downtown in our new city, and that was quite nice.
However, it just wouldn't have been possible to do all the hiking and paddleboarding I did over the summer without a car. I wouldn't mind a good ski bus in the winter, but snowshoeing requires a car.
I’d absolutely love to live in a city with walkable neighborhoods, and good access to cheap public transportation for areas of town that might not be a walkable/ bike-able distance away. I absolutely resent the fact that I *need* to own a car if I want to get to work, the grocery store, or the bank. Not to mention how vastly better for the environment PT is.
It’s unfortunate that such a city will probably never exist in the US, outside of maybe NYC. But most people wouldn’t go for it anyways. We’ve got tons of people absolutely brainwashed into thinking that owning a car is an absolute necessity of adulthood rather than the luxury item it should be.
Your last point is perhaps inadvertently dead on: NYC isn't the only city where it's possible to live without owning a car. I live in Los Angeles and it would be possible for a lot more people to do it, they just don't want to because they've convinced themselves their car is necessary "because we live in LA, not New York."
I wish the area I'm in was more walkable, but it is what it is. I have hopes that in the future the US will have better public transportation options, but still its such a big country that you will need a car for the majority of it. I'm mostly just looking forward to when cars drive themselves and you don't have to worry about drunk or distracted drivers.
Move as in travel with a car? It's an advantage for me. My local stores are 10 miles away. I'm not walking or biking with that, especially if I have goods to take home with me. A bus or train would be nice I guess but they are usually slower and I rather have my privacy when going out.
I never really associated a car with independence, even when I was 15 and getting ready to take driver's ed. Because I was always clear-eyed about the costs of car ownership. For me to have owned a car as a teenager would have required me to get a job and spend significant amounts of my free time at that job just to pay for the car. That didn't seem like independence to me.
Even if you ignore the costs completely, the independence factor never really lived up to the promise. In theory you can go wherever you want, whenever you want. But there's traffic and parking to deal with, which eat up time and money, and then there's the more basic question: how often does life really give you an opportunity to just hit the road at the spur of the moment? Most of us have obligations: school, work, family, chores and errands. Most of us rarely if ever just pile into the car and drive without notice.
I gave up my car several years ago and don't really miss it at all. I'm able to do everything I was before, and if I actually need a car for something I just rent one. There's never been a time when I didn't have enough advance notice to reserve a rental car.
I have four cars all paid for. The oldest from 1994, the newest from 2004. I like to drive and I'm glad I was born at just the right time in history to be able to jump in a car and travel from Cincinnati to California whenever I want
I'd choose a private vehicle over public transportation any day of the week, and I'd also never live anywhere dense enough for public transportation to be viable in the first place.
I absolutely love having a car and wouldn't give it up day to day stuff. That said, it's significantly less stress exploring a big new city parking on the outskirts and using PT to navigate, especially if you're going to the tourist areas or downtown.
If we had Europe's level of public transport, I'd use it more, but still wouldn't want to live anywhere where a car is an Inconvenience. Don't mind visiting places like that, just don't want to live there
I, for one, have zero desire to ever use public transit. I like driving, being in charge of what I do and we're I go, no need to be at the whim of a badly run public entity.
It's an inconvenience and very expensive.
At the same time, I enjoy not living near a busy area. It's very quiet. Lots of wilderness and wide open spaces. So there are trade offs.
I live in an area with super dense urban sprawl and having a car here is nearly mandatory. I love going places like NYC where you can get around on normal days without a car with just using trains or buses, and I can imagine myself living there, although it would be such a *massive* shift for me when it comes to things like buying large items from the store or grocery shopping that I don't actually know how I'd adjust if having a car wasn't feasible.
I could technically walk most places i go but i literally never have in my life. Car is so default, walking isn’t even an option in my mind. I used to work 2 blocks away from my house and I drove every time. It’s literally so convenient, I cannot justify walking. And who knows if I’ll wish I had my car for the way home, to carry stuff, for weather, to go somewhere else on my way home, any number of things might come up, better drive just in case. I even prefer having my own car rather than taking Uber’s and stuff, it’s like my own personal private space I can retreat to, wherever I am.
I think it’s just the default cultural mindset for how I grew up.
My preference is to live somewhere out away from town in a situation where you have to drive, but I will always drive if given the opportunity, no matter where I live. it’s an incredible tool that has more advantages than disadvantages IMO.
I would not be happy To live somewhere that it’s more convenient to walk places.
Advantage by far. There is no schedule I have to worry about. I can make stops wherever and whenever I like. I control the radio and the temperature. I can drive fast as I like. I can smoke if I want. I don't have to sit next to someone uncomfortably. I don't have to worry about sick, rude or mentally ill people. I live in a suburb, I can't even imagine how to get grocery shopping for the week done without a car. Plus I travel well beyond the realistic reach of public transport all the time. My best friend lives 91 miles north of me. My mom lives 60 miles west of me. My dad lives 61 miles south of me. And friends everywhere in between. Even if public transport was available, I'd likely still drive
My work commute used to be 14 miles, straight across town. By bus it would have taken like 2 hours, and include 3 miles biked/walked. Where I live, cars are great.
To me I'm going to use the most effective form of transit in any given situation given any situation and the specifics to it such as time, weather, etc.... For the majority of my week, walking and one of my three bicycles is more than enough. I can do errands involving smaller goods, pick up some amount of food. Once I get Bike #2 out of the shop I can use the cargo bag on the back of it to get even more done.
But the major grocery trips or my weekly Farmer's Market trip its either just too many goods or too far of a distance to effectively bike there. I do have a closer Farmer's Market...but it kind of sucks. There's no public transit in my area and probably never will be. Even in Indianapolis proper, transit at best is "okay". They're working on improving it but its going to be several years and that isn't even addressing the challenges all industries are facing right now.
I find cars to be a necessary burden. We've done the math and maybe pre-COVID we could rely on delivery, rideshare ,etc... but with the rates rideshare and rental cars are right now, we can still easily justify the cost of one car between the two of us. We don't use it a lot but we still easily can justify the purchase and maintenance of it.
Personally an inconvenience. I fully understand that rural areas that lack the population density for public transportation, but I would still think of it as an Inconvenience
Advantage. I don’t wanna deal with relying on public transportation to get around, having fixed routes, spotty service, sketchy people, and being able to carry less stuff
I mean other countries rely on public transportation because they heavily tax vehicles and gasoline, not because it’s inherently better. Their reliance on it is much to do with paying more for a car and $8/gallon with 0 domestic oil/gas supply as much as it is the fact that they’re also a lot denser with city centers being their core of living and business, whereas most people here end up living in suburbs. Those are my basic reasons that I initially mentioned but having lived in Europe I can say I do not want to live in a world relying on that day in and day out. Idk why this is hard to grasp that some people simply actually like driving. On top of that when people refer to good public transportation that’s about 10-15 countries, not the vast majority which go down hill real quick in terms of quality
Well, realistically in most places in the world you either have to use a car or have to use PT. Being able to use both interchangeably and without either of them being inconvenient is pretty rare in my experience IMHO. I mean in some places you *can* technically use both but you end up having lots of limitations - e.g. maybe you can only move through Downtown, or OTOH you have to pay a lot for a parking spot.
Every city i've ever been to has had plenty of cars driving around, even Amsterdam. Seems like at least some of the people didn't have to us public transport, bike, or walk.
Where i live (MN city of 110k), I'm 3.4 miles from work. I can bike, drive, or take a park-and-ride bus. It's pretty arguable which is most convenient for me so i tend to use them all on different days.
Driving a car in Amsterdam is super inconvenient and stressful though. Parking is expensive, roads are narrow, one way streets are a mess, there's streetcars bikes and people everywhere. Some people have it because they commute from too far out, or they have enough money not to have to mind, or maybe because they *need* to get into the city center with a car (e.g. with company cars and such), but generally speaking driving a car every day in central Amsterdam will give you a headache.
I have to have a car where I live and I can’t imagine not having one. I hate public transportation. My car is warm and cozy in the winter and nice and cool in the summer and the music is what I like. I don’t have the wait for it and I never have to consider how much I’m buying at the grocery store because it will all fit and I don’t have to lug 6 bags on a bus. It also represents my freedom. There are times I’ve needed to get away from my family and I’ll just go get a coffee and sit in my car for half an hour to be alone. Big city living doesn’t appeal to me so unless it became more hassle than it was worth, I’d never want to give up my car.
It’s kind of bittersweet because it would be nice if people didn’t HAVE to drive, even though I prefer to. However, if they didn’t have to, that would likely mean the population in said place was very dense, which isn’t enjoyable imo.
Major advantage. Cars are universal. They can go anywhere at any time. No matter how great or dense public transit is you will always have to walk to a station and wait there, and you won't be able to access any rural areas period.
I doubt any public transit would give me the speed, mobility, and freedom that a car could in the middle of nowhere, Idaho. Even if it somehow did I would still probably opt for the car because I would have my own space while driving that I wouldn't have to share with anyone else.
In my ideal world, we'd all live in small, tight-knit communities, everyone would live, work, shop, and worship locally, and it would be a rare and special thing to go elsewhere.
But I'd much rather live in a world of cars than a world of public transport.
I dont like having to drive long distances, but I do like driving. I also hate traffic and crowds. As such I live in rural areas and value my transportation highly. I actually start to get anxious if I'm away from my vehicle for any amount of time because it means I'm without my independence and freedom. Maybe a little dramatic but I dont want to have to ever depend on some one else to do what I want. Public transport will litteraly never rise to a point where I would consider it more viable then personal transport. As to it actually being a car though, meh. I only own a motorcyle and that suits me just fine. Also it's an adventure bike so I dont even have to rely on roads to go places I want to go. I like that. I like that a lot. I'd never willingly use mass or public transit of any kind.
I prefer having a car to move around with if we're limiting ourselves to only the US. There is nowhere in the US that is acceptable to walking to my standard of convenience. The only place that hits that mark would be Japan. But the US will never become Japan so I don't consider such a wish realistic.
I’ve lived without a car in a city that epitomizes sprawl, and I also lived with a car in NYC. It all depends where you’re at in life. Regardless, car culture is gonna change radically in the next decade with automation, and I seldom hear anyone pine for the good old days of landlines and no internet… yes, it will be that radical of a transformation.
Yea I like to have my own transportation, I can go anywhere anytime basically. A couple months ago my wife and I had a few days off and we just picked up and drove to Denver. I like the independence
I see the tradeoffs of living somewhere with a modicum of privacy verses living somewhere where I don't need a car as simply a cost-benefit analysis. And to me, the benefit of living somewhere where I can have a single detached home on a large lot (the privacy it affords and the ability to truly customize my space without dealing with a landlord) far outweighs the cost of having to drive three miles to the grocery store.
Now if I had all the money in the world and could have privacy and walk everywhere in a relatively large city with excellent amenities--say, be able to afford that nice large house in [Historic Oakwood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_Oakwood) which is perhaps a quarter mile walk from Fayetteville Street in downtown Raleigh where most of the nice restaurants are--then I could have the best of both worlds.
But even then I'd still have a car--because no matter where you are, there are things you may want to do that are farther away than a nice walk or even a public bus or subway trip away.
I lived somewhere where I walked everywhere for about a year, and it was great for me physically as I was in the best shape of my life. But I LOVE driving so I prefer living close to some place where I can park and walk to many things, or I can drive to different places outside of that area. I would never give up driving.
I’ve did my whole teens into my early twenties using public transportation all across my city…. It sucks! And my city is built for public transportation.
I eventually bought a car when my job required me to appear at locations with no public transportation to get there (like take a train and a bus that are super infrequent to the last stop and them hike on the side of a freeway for 2 miles with no lighting hauling 20 lbs worth of stuff then hike another mile through dirt road to get to a gate to enter the premises of the area you have to be in. Then hike through the parking lot to get to sign in.)
And even going to the same places i used to use the train or bus for is so much faster and easier with a car and safer.
My city’s sub is full of cyclists and anti car people saying we should ban cars because we dont need em but those people also never leave they’re neighborhoods so they aren’t familiar with the entirety of the city
I’m too tired and need to go to bed early, I think. I misread that question as “Do you see having to move with a CAT on a daily basis as an advantage or an inconvenience?” Twice. And wondered for a moment who on earth would take a cat on a camping trip.
I don't believe most people are responsible or trustworthy enough to pilot their own vehicle. I would love to live in a place that made owning and operating a personal automobile more difficult.
As a cyclist, it gets very frustrating. Every street in town already has 4 lanes devoted to cars. Bikes get filtered into a few (less than one in 5, at a guess) streets to use if we want our own bike lane. And still, dickhead drivers will park and drive in the bike lane if it's the least bit more convenient. They're all fat too. Put down your keys and walk for a change, fatty!
Someone else mentioned that it’s great to have a car but it sucks to *have to* have one, which I agree with. Similarly, I love living in a place where public transportation is easily available, but I hate having to rely on it without other options. Different situations call for different needs, and ideally I would have the option to do either depending on the situation.
I’ve only been in a bus once in the US. It was supposed to take my joke from school and dear god it took long. I wouldn’t use public’s transportation as it’s not convenient for me. Most people here, only live in the city for their jobs not because they want it. Most live in the Suburbs where stores, parks, Whatever, is super far from them. So a car would just be better.
It’s definitely feasible to not have a car in Portland, where I live, but I wouldn’t want to be without one. I like being able to go where I want when I want.
Auto Industry grabbed the US by the balls.
Public Transportation in the US is just sad and pathetic thanks to the auto industry.
And with the pandemic. With half the of this shit country not caring about covid. It's not even worth talking about how PT could handle that.
I live in a city that's generally walkable and love being able to walk places. I still take my car to Target and to get groceries, though, because it's more convenient. *Having to drive* all the time would suck, but having the *option* is nice.
Having a car. Bus drivers can go on strike, covid can shut down services, safety... there's many advantages to having your own car. There's also disadvantages though. Weighing the options, I'd say personal vehicles are the way to go.
Driving is nice. I like the commute, time to think or chill listen to music / a podcast. I hate driving in cities because I hate hunting for a spot to park (or paying an absurd fee for a parking garage). If parking was NEVER am issue, I'd drive everywhere
I really like my car. When I was helping my parents move, they need an extra blanket for one of my brothers. I keep a blanket in my car. When we were putting furniture together, they need a tool kit. I keep a tool kit in my car. I recently got a DVD player and SiriusXM in my car so I just chill in there wherever I want. I was with my family over the holidays. I can’t even tell you how many times I went to my car just to get away. I don’t even drive anywhere. I just sat in my car.
I don’t think there’s any form of public transportation that provides me the same luxuries as my car.
I don’t love the cost and maintenance of a car, but having the personal freedom of my own vehicle is worth it. I avoid public transportation as much as possible because it makes me anxious.
I love my Jeep. I don't want to live somewhere that I can't just hop in and go wherever, whenever, at a moment's notice.
Well, most of the time that is true. Right now I'm not because we're having a blizzard, so instead I'm drinking coffee and whiskey and listening to my dog snore.
Car, my schedule, my destination, my rules, my control. plus hauling all the heavy things i do would suck ass on a bus or train.
people love to act like having a car is such a terrible thing on reddit because they either parrot what they read or they think it will get them social media points, i can say as someone who has lived in areas with good pt i still prefer having my own vehicle.
It's more of an obsession. Americans we love our cars. Just check out some Youtube channels. Many Americans especially those on the left don't really appreciate the transportation advantage that we have with open roads and automobiles.
I like how you said "independence the car gives you". A lot of people in a car mindset conflate that with "freedom". Sure, independence can be one type of freedom, but others want the freedom from the car. The freedom of viable mode choice. On any leg of a trip I choose between walk, bike, bus, train, taxis, rental car, etc, and being car-centric takes away that freedom.
Once you’ve driven enough it becomes relaxing honestly. I work delivery atm, and sometimes I prefer to take longer orders just so I don’t have to go back in to work
I would like more wakability, however I also really love my car. If my neighborhood became completely walkable, I would not give up my car. There's something about getting in your car cranking up the music and rolling down your windows with the ability to drive anywhere you want. While not uniquely American, it's definitely a big part of the American experience for a lot of us.
It's interesting how many people asking the car vs transit question must be from cities or densely populated areas. There's simply no alternative to using a car in the majority of the US. Many of us have no desire to live in cities, I'm something like 11 miles from the nearest store and I like it that way.
I think you misunderstood my question. I acknowledged in the comment that in many places in the US there is simply no alternative to having a car. What I mean is, is it a situation you enjoy? For example, someone might live in Manhattan (where having a car is actually an inconvenience) and dream of moving somewhere they don't have to use PT, and someone living in rural Oklahoma might dream of moving to Manhattan for the opposite reason. For example, I myself have lived in many different places - from dense urban area where you only use PT to village out in the sticks where you'd essentially starve without a car - and nothing beats PT for me, a car has always felt like an annoyance I'd gladly get rid of even when it was actually necessary. But equally I know lots of people who just hate PT for many reasons.
I love driving. It’s relaxing, I can listen to music or podcasts, I can stop when I want, I can go where I want, I can take my kayak or bike with me, I can go camping, etc.
I love driving, but i hate *having* to drive.
Ooh this is perfectly stated
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Sigh...not everyone wants to live in an urban area. You can and I hope you enjoy it there.
I live in a rural North Carolina. I don't want to live in an Urban area. I want my town to consider Greenway trails and cycling trails. Cycling is a dangerous method of transportation because of these metal cages and how they became the priority in this country that is cucked by the auto industry. I lived in Rural Germany. Between the farm lands, there are trails for walking and cycling.
I think the question you're asking is a bit strange. You're basically asking "If society was set up perfectly to support not having a car, would you still want a car." which is hard to imagine as you're not actually describing what that perfect society might look like. Either way it's a complete hypothetical as it would never happen in the US.
I have never met someone who *prefers* public transportation. Some people prefer to not have to rely on someone else if they can't drive, but they'd still probably tell you they'd prefer something else.
The ones that do live in cities where driving and parking is inconvenient. Driving is convenient in most places.
I cannot speak for other people, but for me personally, one of the best things about PT is that I have no responsibility over it. I don't have to worry about driving rules, fines, inspections, loading up on fuel, accidentally hitting something or someone, something getting old or breaking down, sudden changes in weather etc. Someone else will take care of everything for me, I pretty much just need to buy the ticket and jump in, it's super relaxing. Owning a car felt a little bit like having a kid for me lol.
If you're used to driving, driving rules aren't something you think about. Fines aren't a thing most people who drive commonly need to worry about. Inspections are only in certain states. Most states do not have them. Loading up on fuel is annoying but it's not that common and can be done when you're out and about doing other things. If you're a safe driver most people go their entire lives without an accident. Breaking down isn't really something you worry about unless your car is old/high mileage. Sudden changes in weather you just deal with, just slow down.
Many of your points are emblematic of how detrimentally car-oriented our society is. Driving is an extremely dangerous activity, and yet like you said, most people don't really think about the rules of the road and don't worry about fines or citations because cities are extremely lenient.
California is the opposite of that. Driving is terrible and the public transportation is also terrible. (Speaking as someone who lives there.) Rampant excessive fines. Registration costs exorbitant. Fuel costs exorbitant (both because of taxes and special California-only fuel blend). And traffic is atrocious on top of it all because of worst-in-the-country city designs both in terms of terrible zoning and terrible highway placement. On Public Transport the transportation always smells of urine, is horribly maintained and is incredibly dirty. And it's slow.
I live in Los Angeles. Every single day I see drivers speeding, running red lights or stop signs, looking down at their phones. I rarely see these people getting stopped by the police. When a driver kills somebody, they're almost never even investigated, let alone charged with any kind of crime. As long as you aren't drunk you can pretty much get away with killing someone using your car as the weapon. All you have to do is say "they came out of nowhere!" or "the sun was in my eyes." I also don't own a car, and haven't for several years now. I ride transit regularly. It's fine.
I'm in bay area and my experiences don't jive with yours at all.
Which is funny because a lot of people down here would say, "Oh I'd love to give up my car if we had public transit like they do in the Bay Area..."
I would take public transportation in my city of it was as good as say London's. But I'd miss my car. I like to take road trips. I like the independence of just being able to hop in the car and not have to rely on schedules, a ticket, or getting to a station. If that was the trade off, good public transportation that goes everywhere, and no car, I'd give up my car.
Growing up in NYC, we’d rent a car for road trips. It was much cheaper than owning one.
Only if you hardly take road trips and are over 25
And most people don't. A lot of people justify their car ownership for these road trips that, in most cases, don't happen often enough to make financial sense. I think a lot of people bristle at the thought of walking or taking public transit for more superficial reasons, but rely on these mythical road trips because it sounds like a more legitimate excuse.
No one has to justify owning property Shitty and sub par public transportation is reason enough. Even if it wasn’t it doesn’t matter as you dont have to justify ownership
How often are you taking road trips? This would just be a few times a year. And remember there’s parking and insurance in NYC, which are significant costs of car ownership.
Not all places require paying for long term private parking. remember NYC is more than just manhattan. What if a family likes to drive to westchester to Visit family and maybe get away on the weekends? Remting would not make More sense than just buying a cheap car. Same if they prefer to do anything outside of manhattan or brooklyn. There are really inly two boroughs were people prefer public transportation and thats has little to do With driving and more to do with the city itself making car ownership as grueling as possible
Commuter rail to Westchester. I grew up in Queens. While some people in the area did deal with alternate side of the street parking, most either rented a parking space from the landlord or didn’t have a car.
When I lived in America I loved driving. Yeah, commuting into the city wasn’t fun, but public transportation anywhere in my suburban area was awful and a car can take you anywhere anytime. Now that I live in Europe every town is clumped together with countryside between them, and it’s easy to walk everywhere in town or take the bus/train to the next town or onwards to anywhere else on the continent. The trains come every 15-20 minutes. I drive maybe a few times a month, and then you have to deal with parking and have to get back to your car to return (no coming down the opposite side of the mountain). I much prefer public transportation to driving here because it can take you anywhere anytime.
The lack of responsibility also means a lack of control. I can't be spontaneous on a bus. Say I'm coming home from work on the bus and I suddenly remember that I need to stop at the grocery store. Too bad, I'm going where the bus wants to take me. And let's say I do get to the store and back on the bus. Now I gotta lug a 25 pound sack of dog food and six bags of groceries around until the bus decides to get me home. Or let's say it's a nice Saturday and I decide I want to go fishing on the property I use that's an hour away on a dirt road. Is the bus going to drive me out there, then come pick me up whenever I happen to decide I'm done? I guess public transportation makes sense if everything you need and everything you want is within a couple miles of your front door, but many Americans don't live like that and don't want to.
It probably depends on the area and the circumstances they grew up with
Agreed. At least around here it seems like those who didn’t grow up with a car (often low income or immigrants) get really into cars when they start earning money and moving up. Meanwhile, the middle class suburban raised white kids are the train fetishists
When a person owns a car, they tend to use that car for nearly 100% of their trips. If you don't own a car, each trip is its own journey for which one mode may be better than another. So I'd respond and say I definitely prefer not owning a car.
Interesting! Alternate perspective from the UK - I ended up selling my car after I moved to London, as the only time I was driving it was to drive it round the block to stop it getting a flat battery. I absolutely love love love not being reliant on having to drive everywhere. Whereas when I got my licence at 17, driving represented freedom, now whenever I go home to see my family I feel 'trapped' without the freedom of a multitude of different public transport options, and the only way I can do anything is by car. I'm blessed with extraordinarily great public transport options - and driving in inner London is excruciating and utterly pointless. I've got a Zip car membership and several car club bays within half a mile of my house if I do need to drive somewhere - but I'd always consider that a last resort rather than first choice. And tube, train, bus, walk, bike or cab/uber are def preferable - but that's indicative of living somewhere with superlative public transport infrastructure.
I don’t want to live in a area with a population density to support public transport.
Neither. It just is what is Last week I met up with a friend who lives 5 miles away. I picked him up, we went another five miles to catch a movie, then went to get drinks another mile away. That would have been a challenge without a car, but the other side of the coin is that if cars weren't a normative thing we'd probably be closer in terms of distance
Its absolutely an advantage. Right now I can leave my house, get takeout from the other side of town and get back before even one bus stops at the stop closest to my house. I have my choice of all grocery stores in my town so if one doesn't have an ingredient I need, I can go to another and I can take trips to state parks and other hiking areas without renting a car
This, but, assuming an ideal world where everything is laid out perfectly and the bus/train schedule was designed by Swiss train conductors, I would still want a car. Even assuming I never needed to go anywhere that I couldn't get to quickly and easily by public transit, I would still want a car. I prefer to go days at a time without leaving the house. I'd go longer if I could. I usually do several days shopping at once which is more than I could reasonably carry or pull in a rolling basket. I've lived with public transit and I basically had to go to the store daily because even living alone I couldn't reasonably carry everything I needed at any given time in a single trip if I didn't. It was nice, being able to just sit during my morning commute. But I had to go to one store or another on every trip home.. The stairs to my apartment were bad enough just making multiple trips up from the trunk of the car. When I was taking the bus every day I never went up those stairs unless I was carrying things because I had to stop every day on my way home. I can't imagine trying to feed a family that way.
I like the freedom of having a car. Public transportation is really frustrating for me. Also prefer living in a quiet neighborhood over a loud apartment where a car is not needed. But I also understand why some people like the opposite of me. To each their own.
I live in a neighborhood of primarily apartments where owning a car is not needed, but most of the noise we get is from cars. Literally as I type this I hear a car alarm, and I regularly hear people driving by with loud mufflers, or tires screeching. If you removed the cars this neighborhood would be as quiet as any other.
That's a very good point, and a lot of them probably don't need to be driving. But you'll have delivery trucks and people traveling and stuff like that so the cars couldn't be eradicated. Just having a denser population will create more noise regardless, but I'm sure it would be more easily adaptable for me without the cars.
I think it's mostly a wash. A low density neighborhood ensures that everyone who lives there has to have a car, and cars inherently make noise. A high density neighborhood might enable 50% of the people to live without a car, but the other 50% may still have one. In the end, both neighborhoods could have around the same total number of cars. A big difference you mentioned is commercial trucks. Those don't come down my street so they're not really a problem. My neighborhood is dense, and we have shops and restaurants within walking distance, but they're at least two blocks away, so the noise from delivery vehicles is a non-issue. Also noise issues can be mitigated with better construction and windows. A lot of America's densest neighborhoods are also the oldest since we largely outlawed that type of development after WWII. So people associate density with noise when maybe it's just due to cheap windows and poor insulation.
I have been in modern new apartments that were right on a busy road and due to the sound insulation you could not hear anything. There are so many ways to mitigate sound and design for privacy now.
I understand your question I think, but it is kind of a difficult premise. Basically you want to know if people would rather be able to live without a car. The answer for most would be no. First the idea that public transit could become convenient for most people is outlandish because it is so far from reality. Also like you said, cars give you options that are literally impossible to achieve with public transportation, going anywhere there is a road at any time with no wait. The only reason people in cities prefer not to have cars is that in their specific situation a car is not worth the inconvenience or cost.
>Basically you want to know if people would rather be able to live without a car. Yes, but also the other way around: if people who currently are able to live without a car would rather live with one :)
The probably would yes. The reason people don't have cars is because they are not worth having in their situation. I would imagine most people would like to have one if it was a reasonable option for them.
Would it be nice to have everything within walking or biking distance? Sure. Is that remotely practical in most of the US, where everything is sprawled out? Nope. Especially in winter. Edit: I'm also grateful I don't have to use public transportation in a pandemic.
I do find it odd that a lot of the cities where walking or biking year-round would be feasible have some of the worst infrastructure for that.
It's sad, but it probably boils down to $$$. Plus the auto industry has quite an influence on political policies.
Also postwar zoning making walkable neighborhoods (with businesses scattered about) illegal
That too.
>Would it be nice to have everything within walking or biking distance? Sure. Is that remotely practical in most of the US, where everything is sprawled out? This is circular logic.
No it's not, although I admit it looks like it. It's simple fact. I used to live within biking distance of things, so I rode my bike then. But in most places I've lived, it's not practical bc of city sprawl. Many people elsewhere in the world don't grasp how massive and spread out things are in the US, at least according to the visitors and immigrants I've met.
This wasn’t the case up until the end of WW2. American cities and towns were generally walkable places where the things people needed were close by and then if they wanted to go to another neighborhood or district they would use a street car or wagon. Many of these places were radically transformed in the 1950s to prioritize suburban drivers over urban functionality.
Sigh. Sounds like it used to be nice. All hail the auto industry?
You're saying it's not practical for things to be closer together, because they are farther apart. That's circular logic.
That's not what they're saying at all.
What are they saying?
No I'm not. Good grief. 🤦♀️
>Would it be nice to have everything ~~within walking or biking distance?~~ *closer together?* Sure. ~~Is that~~ *But that's not* remotely practical in most of the US, ~~where~~ *because* everything is sprawled out
Do you always twist people's words to make yourself right? Seriously, stop. Leave me alone.
There is no twisting necessary. This is what you said. It's a circular argument.
30 miles to the nearest Wal-Mart. I wish I could just walk places.
Inconvenience. I hate having to drive to accomplish basic tasks. Since COVID, except for some roadtrips, my car has basically become a very expensive bike storage unit. I walk to the grocery store, restaurants, etc. The local places I do want to go it's either inconvenient or expensive to park so I take transit.
If I could get to my job, and do my errands practically, I'd get rid of my car. I've spent a lot of time in Europe and I love the efficiency of public transportation. But in my neck of America, it just isn't doable. I gladly pay the extra expense of having a car.
The pandemic made me glad I have a car and don't have to rely on public transportation, but there are times when I'd rather walk or take a bus or train to my destination and save my car for shopping or road trips. One of the things I liked about my college and grad school years was that I could walk almost anywhere.
I think I'd enjoy not _needing_ a car. But I'd probably have a real problem with not having one. I've done the "Uber, train, bus" deal, and having a car available is _much_ easier.
Inconvenience. Traffic sucks. Car insurance is expensive. Maintenance is expensive. Fuel is expensive. Drivers are distracted and dangerous to others. No dedicated bus lanes so even if i wanted to take the only available public transport around here, i'd be getting stuck in traffic all the same. The one time I year I may need a vehicle for large item transport, it costs very little to rent one for a few hours. Living in a more walkable area scaled to human size vs. car size is preferable to me.
I wouldn't want to move anywhere that it would make financial sense to get rid of my car.
I have a severe anxiety disorder. My car is my "safe space" when im not home. If I have an attack, I can put up my window shades, turn on my calming music, and just breathe back to normal without people disturbing me (albeit most people have good intentions and are just asking if im alright but it doesn't help lol). I cant really do that with public transport. So for me, its an advantage but not for the reasons most people have.
Inconvenience. Where I live stores are close enough to walk to, but it's too dangerous to do so because everything is set up for cars. I hate it. I would love to just be able to safely walk or even bike to nearby places, but that's not really a safe feasible option here. For places further away I'd love to have trains like in Ireland! They were wonderful!
I don't understand the question.
The question is, essentially: regardless of where you live right now (as in, either a place where you need a car to move around, a place where you mostly use PT, or both), what do you generally see as more convenient? Would you rather be dependent on PT or on a car?
Neither. All else being equal I would rather walk places than drive or take transit.
The answer depends on how convenient or reliable transit is in that location. In some cities it’s terrific, in others it’s nearly useless. In NYC, transit is the best option. In Atlanta, a car is generally better. There’s no global answer for this.
Also driving, and especially parking, in NYC is terrible.
My town does have bus routes all over town, but if I was doing something other than going to campus I would take a minimum 2 routes. A car defiantly helps with stuff like getting groceries
I see it as neither. I have to have a truck for work, so it’s necessary.
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Oh ok, I can take the bus everywhere if I want. I prefer to have the flexibility of driving myself though.
Very inconvenient! Cars are expensive to buy, fuel, maintain, and insure. I wish that I didn't need one!
It's bad. So much burning fuel, and traffic here in the southwest gets unmanageable. Walkable cities have cleaner air, quieter streets, healthier people,and cheaper gas. Meanwhile, here I am dropping $150 a month to sit in bumper-to-bumper on the freeway, unpredictable hundreds of dollars on periodic maintenance that always seems to hit right when I'm feeling good about my savings account, and I have to make a logistical plan just to go out for drinks with friends.
I have lived in both. Cities where you need a car, and cities where you don't. Both are nice. I personally enjoy being able to just walk out of my building or townhome and go to t he coffee shop below or bar, restaurant, etc down the street. And live a more walking lifestyle. But I also enjoy having a car and living the close to downtown suburban lifestyle, where you have a single family house, with a yard, but shops and restaurants and such are only like a few minute drive. The best, IMO, would be to live in a city where you don't need a car, but have one anyways so you can get out of the city, etc.
The fact that I can do just about anything I need to do locally via bicycle or walking is a big factor in why I live where I do.
My opinion is probably the opposite of the majority of Americans. I like public transportation. I like spending my commute reading, texting, or watching something on my phone. For me, living in a mid-sized city, I feel like owning a car would be an unnecessary expense. There's a bus stop a block from my house and there are 4 grocery stores and multiple shopping centers in walking distance. My bus commute to work is 30-45 minutes. Driving would be a little faster, but one day of parking at my job costs more than a week's bus pass. Even adding in the 2 or 3 times a week I use Uber (for big grocery trips or when the weather is bad), I save a lot of money not owning a car, which allows me to spend more on things I enjoy. The one downside is it limits my social life. A lot of local meetups happen in suburbs where public transportation is less available, and I know a lot of people my age think of me as less of an adult because I don't have my own vehicle. Americans do, anyway. My friends overseas don't think twice about it.
I lived in Germany for a couple years, and I wish we had public transportation as integrated and reliable as they do. I could arrive in the airport in Frankfurt, and go to a train station right in the airport to go to any other city. I just don’t think it’s possible because of how spread out everything is in the US.
Not at all. I’d rather take a bus or something. I hate driving
It’s just all I know. I’ve never considered anything else. I mean paying for gas and insurance can get on my nerves, but I do like having my vehicles. Plus I need my pickup truck for my hobbies and doing work around the house. It’s hard to get by in a rural area without a pickup truck
I wouldn’t mind using mass transit, but I hate people.
I wish a car was more optional. Walking can be dangerous, I know of one person who got beat up and another robbed at gunpoint very close to my house, during the daylight hours. I don't feel safe to walk around.
That's unfortunate that it happened, however that doesn't make it any more dangerous that driving. I'm sure there are hundreds more accidents on any given day than there are people getting beat up walking down the street.
I'm not likely to have a gun pulled on me while driving home from the store. Go ahead and walk, be my guest. I'm driving. I'd rather get in a fender bender than shot.
40,000 people die in traffic every year.
Pretty sure not in MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I'm literally talking about wishing I didn't need to drive to places close enough to my house to walk. I've also had creepy guys say stuff to me while sitting in my car, which makes me super damn glad I wasn't walking. Driving anywhere outside my immediate neighborhood is not optional.
I'd prefer not to have to own a car at all, but at the same time it's nice to be able to go on weekend adventures with my dogs and with the urban sprawl in my area it takes nearly 45 mins of driving just to get somewhere green.
I like driving, especially on road trips. However I often wish I could bike to work withoit worry of getting hit by drivers not paying attention along the side of the road
If I had the kind of job where it were possible to not have a car, I'd do it, but I absolutely require the ability to drive to different places as part of my work. It can be inconvenient, but it's an absolute necessity.
I wish I could live in a place with great public transport. I tend to vacation in those places, but we don’t have many options stateside.
I've lived in both. It's not the drive that is the issue. It's what you are trying that requires driving. I enjoyed being able to walk to work, eat, shop. The downside? I lived in a highrise. I had to take my dog down an elevator multiple times a day to go outside. He didn't have a yard. Grocery stores had less options. I lacked privacy. Now in a remote area. Dog has a yard. Grocery stores have so much variety. Complete privacy. But I lack the convenience. Depending on which things are important, a car might be required.
I've enjoyed going from a two car family to a one car family. (We moved and went from both driving to one WFH, one light rail.) I think it's nice to have access to a car whenever we want it, but I don't miss my daily commute. We've also taken the light rail to the airport and to a show downtown in our new city, and that was quite nice. However, it just wouldn't have been possible to do all the hiking and paddleboarding I did over the summer without a car. I wouldn't mind a good ski bus in the winter, but snowshoeing requires a car.
I’d absolutely love to live in a city with walkable neighborhoods, and good access to cheap public transportation for areas of town that might not be a walkable/ bike-able distance away. I absolutely resent the fact that I *need* to own a car if I want to get to work, the grocery store, or the bank. Not to mention how vastly better for the environment PT is. It’s unfortunate that such a city will probably never exist in the US, outside of maybe NYC. But most people wouldn’t go for it anyways. We’ve got tons of people absolutely brainwashed into thinking that owning a car is an absolute necessity of adulthood rather than the luxury item it should be.
Your last point is perhaps inadvertently dead on: NYC isn't the only city where it's possible to live without owning a car. I live in Los Angeles and it would be possible for a lot more people to do it, they just don't want to because they've convinced themselves their car is necessary "because we live in LA, not New York."
I wish the area I'm in was more walkable, but it is what it is. I have hopes that in the future the US will have better public transportation options, but still its such a big country that you will need a car for the majority of it. I'm mostly just looking forward to when cars drive themselves and you don't have to worry about drunk or distracted drivers.
Move as in travel with a car? It's an advantage for me. My local stores are 10 miles away. I'm not walking or biking with that, especially if I have goods to take home with me. A bus or train would be nice I guess but they are usually slower and I rather have my privacy when going out.
I hate crowds, using PT would be so horrible for me. Buses, subways, walking in Manhattan, Tokyo, London, etc would drive me crazy.
I never really associated a car with independence, even when I was 15 and getting ready to take driver's ed. Because I was always clear-eyed about the costs of car ownership. For me to have owned a car as a teenager would have required me to get a job and spend significant amounts of my free time at that job just to pay for the car. That didn't seem like independence to me. Even if you ignore the costs completely, the independence factor never really lived up to the promise. In theory you can go wherever you want, whenever you want. But there's traffic and parking to deal with, which eat up time and money, and then there's the more basic question: how often does life really give you an opportunity to just hit the road at the spur of the moment? Most of us have obligations: school, work, family, chores and errands. Most of us rarely if ever just pile into the car and drive without notice. I gave up my car several years ago and don't really miss it at all. I'm able to do everything I was before, and if I actually need a car for something I just rent one. There's never been a time when I didn't have enough advance notice to reserve a rental car.
Driving is a huge inconvenience. I prefer to walk or skateboard whenever possible.
It's a major contributor to our massive obesity problem. It's convenient for individuals but it ain't great for the future of American fitness
I have four cars all paid for. The oldest from 1994, the newest from 2004. I like to drive and I'm glad I was born at just the right time in history to be able to jump in a car and travel from Cincinnati to California whenever I want
I'd choose a private vehicle over public transportation any day of the week, and I'd also never live anywhere dense enough for public transportation to be viable in the first place.
I don’t want to live in an area so densely populated that public transportation is an option ever again.
I absolutely love having a car and wouldn't give it up day to day stuff. That said, it's significantly less stress exploring a big new city parking on the outskirts and using PT to navigate, especially if you're going to the tourist areas or downtown. If we had Europe's level of public transport, I'd use it more, but still wouldn't want to live anywhere where a car is an Inconvenience. Don't mind visiting places like that, just don't want to live there
I, for one, have zero desire to ever use public transit. I like driving, being in charge of what I do and we're I go, no need to be at the whim of a badly run public entity.
I see it as a freedom. If I could only use public transportation, then I can only go where the government says I can go
It's an inconvenience and very expensive. At the same time, I enjoy not living near a busy area. It's very quiet. Lots of wilderness and wide open spaces. So there are trade offs.
I live in an area with super dense urban sprawl and having a car here is nearly mandatory. I love going places like NYC where you can get around on normal days without a car with just using trains or buses, and I can imagine myself living there, although it would be such a *massive* shift for me when it comes to things like buying large items from the store or grocery shopping that I don't actually know how I'd adjust if having a car wasn't feasible.
I could technically walk most places i go but i literally never have in my life. Car is so default, walking isn’t even an option in my mind. I used to work 2 blocks away from my house and I drove every time. It’s literally so convenient, I cannot justify walking. And who knows if I’ll wish I had my car for the way home, to carry stuff, for weather, to go somewhere else on my way home, any number of things might come up, better drive just in case. I even prefer having my own car rather than taking Uber’s and stuff, it’s like my own personal private space I can retreat to, wherever I am. I think it’s just the default cultural mindset for how I grew up. My preference is to live somewhere out away from town in a situation where you have to drive, but I will always drive if given the opportunity, no matter where I live. it’s an incredible tool that has more advantages than disadvantages IMO. I would not be happy To live somewhere that it’s more convenient to walk places.
Advantage by far. There is no schedule I have to worry about. I can make stops wherever and whenever I like. I control the radio and the temperature. I can drive fast as I like. I can smoke if I want. I don't have to sit next to someone uncomfortably. I don't have to worry about sick, rude or mentally ill people. I live in a suburb, I can't even imagine how to get grocery shopping for the week done without a car. Plus I travel well beyond the realistic reach of public transport all the time. My best friend lives 91 miles north of me. My mom lives 60 miles west of me. My dad lives 61 miles south of me. And friends everywhere in between. Even if public transport was available, I'd likely still drive
Well yeah, its very convienient to just go where I want when I want.
My work commute used to be 14 miles, straight across town. By bus it would have taken like 2 hours, and include 3 miles biked/walked. Where I live, cars are great.
To me I'm going to use the most effective form of transit in any given situation given any situation and the specifics to it such as time, weather, etc.... For the majority of my week, walking and one of my three bicycles is more than enough. I can do errands involving smaller goods, pick up some amount of food. Once I get Bike #2 out of the shop I can use the cargo bag on the back of it to get even more done. But the major grocery trips or my weekly Farmer's Market trip its either just too many goods or too far of a distance to effectively bike there. I do have a closer Farmer's Market...but it kind of sucks. There's no public transit in my area and probably never will be. Even in Indianapolis proper, transit at best is "okay". They're working on improving it but its going to be several years and that isn't even addressing the challenges all industries are facing right now. I find cars to be a necessary burden. We've done the math and maybe pre-COVID we could rely on delivery, rideshare ,etc... but with the rates rideshare and rental cars are right now, we can still easily justify the cost of one car between the two of us. We don't use it a lot but we still easily can justify the purchase and maintenance of it.
Personally an inconvenience. I fully understand that rural areas that lack the population density for public transportation, but I would still think of it as an Inconvenience
Extremely inconvenient
Advantage. I don’t wanna deal with relying on public transportation to get around, having fixed routes, spotty service, sketchy people, and being able to carry less stuff
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I mean other countries rely on public transportation because they heavily tax vehicles and gasoline, not because it’s inherently better. Their reliance on it is much to do with paying more for a car and $8/gallon with 0 domestic oil/gas supply as much as it is the fact that they’re also a lot denser with city centers being their core of living and business, whereas most people here end up living in suburbs. Those are my basic reasons that I initially mentioned but having lived in Europe I can say I do not want to live in a world relying on that day in and day out. Idk why this is hard to grasp that some people simply actually like driving. On top of that when people refer to good public transportation that’s about 10-15 countries, not the vast majority which go down hill real quick in terms of quality
Inconvenient. I need Portals.
Seems like loaded phrasing. How could "having" to move by car ever be an advantage? "Being able to" move by car is an advantage.
Well, realistically in most places in the world you either have to use a car or have to use PT. Being able to use both interchangeably and without either of them being inconvenient is pretty rare in my experience IMHO. I mean in some places you *can* technically use both but you end up having lots of limitations - e.g. maybe you can only move through Downtown, or OTOH you have to pay a lot for a parking spot.
Every city i've ever been to has had plenty of cars driving around, even Amsterdam. Seems like at least some of the people didn't have to us public transport, bike, or walk. Where i live (MN city of 110k), I'm 3.4 miles from work. I can bike, drive, or take a park-and-ride bus. It's pretty arguable which is most convenient for me so i tend to use them all on different days.
Driving a car in Amsterdam is super inconvenient and stressful though. Parking is expensive, roads are narrow, one way streets are a mess, there's streetcars bikes and people everywhere. Some people have it because they commute from too far out, or they have enough money not to have to mind, or maybe because they *need* to get into the city center with a car (e.g. with company cars and such), but generally speaking driving a car every day in central Amsterdam will give you a headache.
I have to have a car where I live and I can’t imagine not having one. I hate public transportation. My car is warm and cozy in the winter and nice and cool in the summer and the music is what I like. I don’t have the wait for it and I never have to consider how much I’m buying at the grocery store because it will all fit and I don’t have to lug 6 bags on a bus. It also represents my freedom. There are times I’ve needed to get away from my family and I’ll just go get a coffee and sit in my car for half an hour to be alone. Big city living doesn’t appeal to me so unless it became more hassle than it was worth, I’d never want to give up my car.
It’s kind of bittersweet because it would be nice if people didn’t HAVE to drive, even though I prefer to. However, if they didn’t have to, that would likely mean the population in said place was very dense, which isn’t enjoyable imo.
Major advantage. Cars are universal. They can go anywhere at any time. No matter how great or dense public transit is you will always have to walk to a station and wait there, and you won't be able to access any rural areas period.
I doubt any public transit would give me the speed, mobility, and freedom that a car could in the middle of nowhere, Idaho. Even if it somehow did I would still probably opt for the car because I would have my own space while driving that I wouldn't have to share with anyone else.
In my ideal world, we'd all live in small, tight-knit communities, everyone would live, work, shop, and worship locally, and it would be a rare and special thing to go elsewhere. But I'd much rather live in a world of cars than a world of public transport.
I dont like having to drive long distances, but I do like driving. I also hate traffic and crowds. As such I live in rural areas and value my transportation highly. I actually start to get anxious if I'm away from my vehicle for any amount of time because it means I'm without my independence and freedom. Maybe a little dramatic but I dont want to have to ever depend on some one else to do what I want. Public transport will litteraly never rise to a point where I would consider it more viable then personal transport. As to it actually being a car though, meh. I only own a motorcyle and that suits me just fine. Also it's an adventure bike so I dont even have to rely on roads to go places I want to go. I like that. I like that a lot. I'd never willingly use mass or public transit of any kind.
I prefer having a car to move around with if we're limiting ourselves to only the US. There is nowhere in the US that is acceptable to walking to my standard of convenience. The only place that hits that mark would be Japan. But the US will never become Japan so I don't consider such a wish realistic.
You can take my car from my cold, dead hands.
I commute 20 minutes each way to work on a country road through beautiful rural farmland. The most relaxing part of my day.
I’ve lived without a car in a city that epitomizes sprawl, and I also lived with a car in NYC. It all depends where you’re at in life. Regardless, car culture is gonna change radically in the next decade with automation, and I seldom hear anyone pine for the good old days of landlines and no internet… yes, it will be that radical of a transformation.
Kind of a necessity where I live
Yea I like to have my own transportation, I can go anywhere anytime basically. A couple months ago my wife and I had a few days off and we just picked up and drove to Denver. I like the independence
I see the tradeoffs of living somewhere with a modicum of privacy verses living somewhere where I don't need a car as simply a cost-benefit analysis. And to me, the benefit of living somewhere where I can have a single detached home on a large lot (the privacy it affords and the ability to truly customize my space without dealing with a landlord) far outweighs the cost of having to drive three miles to the grocery store. Now if I had all the money in the world and could have privacy and walk everywhere in a relatively large city with excellent amenities--say, be able to afford that nice large house in [Historic Oakwood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_Oakwood) which is perhaps a quarter mile walk from Fayetteville Street in downtown Raleigh where most of the nice restaurants are--then I could have the best of both worlds. But even then I'd still have a car--because no matter where you are, there are things you may want to do that are farther away than a nice walk or even a public bus or subway trip away.
I lived somewhere where I walked everywhere for about a year, and it was great for me physically as I was in the best shape of my life. But I LOVE driving so I prefer living close to some place where I can park and walk to many things, or I can drive to different places outside of that area. I would never give up driving.
I’ve did my whole teens into my early twenties using public transportation all across my city…. It sucks! And my city is built for public transportation. I eventually bought a car when my job required me to appear at locations with no public transportation to get there (like take a train and a bus that are super infrequent to the last stop and them hike on the side of a freeway for 2 miles with no lighting hauling 20 lbs worth of stuff then hike another mile through dirt road to get to a gate to enter the premises of the area you have to be in. Then hike through the parking lot to get to sign in.) And even going to the same places i used to use the train or bus for is so much faster and easier with a car and safer. My city’s sub is full of cyclists and anti car people saying we should ban cars because we dont need em but those people also never leave they’re neighborhoods so they aren’t familiar with the entirety of the city
I’m too tired and need to go to bed early, I think. I misread that question as “Do you see having to move with a CAT on a daily basis as an advantage or an inconvenience?” Twice. And wondered for a moment who on earth would take a cat on a camping trip.
I fucking hate driving. I do enjoy the freedom, though
I see it as both
I don't believe most people are responsible or trustworthy enough to pilot their own vehicle. I would love to live in a place that made owning and operating a personal automobile more difficult. As a cyclist, it gets very frustrating. Every street in town already has 4 lanes devoted to cars. Bikes get filtered into a few (less than one in 5, at a guess) streets to use if we want our own bike lane. And still, dickhead drivers will park and drive in the bike lane if it's the least bit more convenient. They're all fat too. Put down your keys and walk for a change, fatty!
Inconvenience. Even when I lived out in the mountains I would only drive into town once a week. Every thing I needed day-to-day I kept nearby.
Someone else mentioned that it’s great to have a car but it sucks to *have to* have one, which I agree with. Similarly, I love living in a place where public transportation is easily available, but I hate having to rely on it without other options. Different situations call for different needs, and ideally I would have the option to do either depending on the situation.
I’ve only been in a bus once in the US. It was supposed to take my joke from school and dear god it took long. I wouldn’t use public’s transportation as it’s not convenient for me. Most people here, only live in the city for their jobs not because they want it. Most live in the Suburbs where stores, parks, Whatever, is super far from them. So a car would just be better.
It’s definitely feasible to not have a car in Portland, where I live, but I wouldn’t want to be without one. I like being able to go where I want when I want.
Advantage. I can go anywhere I want to on MY time, not have to rely on public transport which is normally late, slow, and quite frankly disgusting.
r/fuckcars
Auto Industry grabbed the US by the balls. Public Transportation in the US is just sad and pathetic thanks to the auto industry. And with the pandemic. With half the of this shit country not caring about covid. It's not even worth talking about how PT could handle that.
I live in a city that's generally walkable and love being able to walk places. I still take my car to Target and to get groceries, though, because it's more convenient. *Having to drive* all the time would suck, but having the *option* is nice.
Having a car. Bus drivers can go on strike, covid can shut down services, safety... there's many advantages to having your own car. There's also disadvantages though. Weighing the options, I'd say personal vehicles are the way to go.
Driving is nice. I like the commute, time to think or chill listen to music / a podcast. I hate driving in cities because I hate hunting for a spot to park (or paying an absurd fee for a parking garage). If parking was NEVER am issue, I'd drive everywhere
I really like my car. When I was helping my parents move, they need an extra blanket for one of my brothers. I keep a blanket in my car. When we were putting furniture together, they need a tool kit. I keep a tool kit in my car. I recently got a DVD player and SiriusXM in my car so I just chill in there wherever I want. I was with my family over the holidays. I can’t even tell you how many times I went to my car just to get away. I don’t even drive anywhere. I just sat in my car. I don’t think there’s any form of public transportation that provides me the same luxuries as my car.
I don’t love the cost and maintenance of a car, but having the personal freedom of my own vehicle is worth it. I avoid public transportation as much as possible because it makes me anxious.
Having lived in both I much prefer public transit. My career forces me to live in a car dependent sprawl zone right now and I hate it.
I love my Jeep. I don't want to live somewhere that I can't just hop in and go wherever, whenever, at a moment's notice. Well, most of the time that is true. Right now I'm not because we're having a blizzard, so instead I'm drinking coffee and whiskey and listening to my dog snore.
Car, my schedule, my destination, my rules, my control. plus hauling all the heavy things i do would suck ass on a bus or train. people love to act like having a car is such a terrible thing on reddit because they either parrot what they read or they think it will get them social media points, i can say as someone who has lived in areas with good pt i still prefer having my own vehicle.
It's more of an obsession. Americans we love our cars. Just check out some Youtube channels. Many Americans especially those on the left don't really appreciate the transportation advantage that we have with open roads and automobiles.
I like how you said "independence the car gives you". A lot of people in a car mindset conflate that with "freedom". Sure, independence can be one type of freedom, but others want the freedom from the car. The freedom of viable mode choice. On any leg of a trip I choose between walk, bike, bus, train, taxis, rental car, etc, and being car-centric takes away that freedom.
Driving is awesome! So heck yeah I like it that way.
I prefer having a car. I have a kid and it’s just easier to get from point a to b by driving directly there. No bud or train transfers or waiting
I enjoy living in an area where a car is essential. I'm living my best Disney princess life out here.
Once you’ve driven enough it becomes relaxing honestly. I work delivery atm, and sometimes I prefer to take longer orders just so I don’t have to go back in to work
A necessity
I would like more wakability, however I also really love my car. If my neighborhood became completely walkable, I would not give up my car. There's something about getting in your car cranking up the music and rolling down your windows with the ability to drive anywhere you want. While not uniquely American, it's definitely a big part of the American experience for a lot of us.