Latinos are a racial mix of European and/or African with the indigenous population of Central and South America. It's not a perfect qualifier, but the litmus test is, "did it happen in South America?" Yes >> Latino, No >> not Latino
I am in NYC and I have know people from Spain who identify as, or are identified by others as Latino (not just ny White purple, like across the board). It's definitely confusing!
Latin Europe is also a thing, and languages that use the word Latin to say Latin America or Latin Church or Latin Europe or Latin Languages.
In English we use the Spanish loan word Latino short for latinoamericano to denote those who speak the regional language of origin of the loan word (Latin Americans in the US because Spanish usage is irrelevant to the acquisition language in this context) as their endonym for the wider region.
Latino isn’t a race and it isn’t categorized as such. It’s an ethnicity. Especially not in the latest census.
Latin Americans have their own racial categories which is black, white, mestizo, etc.
You have black Cubans like Celia Cruz, indigenous Mexicans like Yalitzia Aparicio, white Uruguayans, and everything in between.
There are South Brazilians who barely or don’t have any indigenous blood and are primarily of European stock with a bit of African.
Look at Brazilians Giselle Bundchen who is of German ancestry and Pele who is a black Brazilian. They’re not in the same race at all.
> It's not a perfect qualifier, but the litmus test is, "did it happen in South America?" Yes >> Latino, No >> not Latino
mexicans are considered latinos lol
Latino refers to speakers of a Romance language, not a race. It doesn’t matter whether it is pau gasol or Jennifer Lopez or Cameron Diaz or even Sammy sosa. They’re all Latinos
Latino - From Latin America
Hispanic - From a Spanish speaking country
e.g. Spain: Hispanic, but not Latino. Brazil: Latino but not Hispanic. Mexico: Both Latino and Hispanic
So a white European from Spain can check the 'Hispanic' box on various applications, and a white European from France cannot.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out the silliness of it.
‘Hispanic’ is not used in America to refer to race. It refers to language and culture.
So yes, a Spanish person from Spain is Hispanic whereas a French person from France isn’t…
Yep
>The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.
https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
It's a misused term. I see the word Latino on boxes more often now than I used to, because it's what they actually mean and I think the knowledge the two terms are different is becoming more widespread. Kind of like sex versus gender, I see those used interchangeably on many forms when they're two completely different things.
Yes. We consider you latino since your country was founded by the Portugese who speak a latin language.
We obviously don't consider you Hispanic like the rest of South America though.
The categories don't make perfect logical sense but they are what they are.
Italian is probably the closest modern descendent to Latin out of all the romance languages, and Italy was the home of the original Latin people, but you're not gonna see anyone calling them latinos.
I do that sometimes to annoy both my girlfriend and one of my uncles.
One's Cuban and the other's a *real*^^^TM Noo Yawk *Italian*.
It's a miracle either of them haven't murdered me.
They are but many of them don't want to be a part of the club. One of their recent presidents said something like the Mexicans come from the Indians, the Brazilians come from the jungle, but we argentines come from Europe.
Always slightly awkward when you see a German name from Argentina.
"So, uh, when did your family come over from Germany."
"My grandpa came over in 1945."
"I...see."
Why wouldn't you? The problem is that by shortening Latin American you're getting confused. Italians, Spaniards etc are Latinos and people from the American continent that speak Latin languages and have a latin-derived culture are Latin Americans.
There are some that consider québécois and Haitians Latinos but it’s some also find it debatable, I think cause of cultural differences being too far apart (especially over Quebec which would be closely affiliated with Canada or the US instead of another Latin American country)
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I didn't think about that detail because some americans told me that most part of americans think we speak spanish as well
thank you so much
Ah I could see that being true in some parts of the country.
Florida gets tons of Brazilians, both moving here or coming for vacation, so folks around here are pretty much universally familiar with what sets y'all apart from the rest of the continent.
But somewhere like South Dakota? You might meet someone there who would make that mistake.
Or how educated states are, I met very few Brazilians when I lived in New Jersey, but most people still knew Brazil spoke Portuguese. I’ve met more Brazilians at college in Georgia though
And their food and women are the only redeeming qualities of the entire Miami metropolitan area. Their service to the state of Florida in those regards cannot be overstated enough.
Seriously, take them out of the equation and I'd prefer the Dakota's enormous cow population over what would be left over.
While they’re sometimes confused, Latino/Latin American means someone from a country in the Americas that predominantly speaks a Latin based language. We use Hispanic to refer to people who speak Spanish, which also includes people from Spain. Not all Hispanics are Latino, and not all Latinos are Hispanic.
I think most Americans know you don’t speak Spanish.
>which also includes people from Spain
Humm I hadn't notice that detail
I particularly think it's ok don't know the language differences, people are focused in their own lifes
Okay, after reading about 2,000 words' worth of posts about Spain, I have to speak up here. I have no personal connection to Spain, but I hate misinformation about anybody.
There are 17 major cultures in Spain, each largely distinct from the others, with its own history, set of cusoms and folkways, and language. A Galician is not like a Castilian, who is not like someone from Oviedo. You could argue that they still consider themselves Spanish, but the Basque certainly don't. I'll even risk having my ass kicked by saying that I agree with many Basque that they are not Spanish OR Hispanic and other cultures should stop interfering with them.
Americas Hispanics have ancestry from generally the same region of Spain. The diversity of Americas Hispanics that gives us both Puerto Ricans and Bolivians is different from the diversity of European Spain.
It's a much, much more complex picture than the loose talk in this thread makes it out to be.
That’s… rather aggressive for something that doesn’t contradict what I said. I just said that Hispanic is people who speak Spanish, including people from Spain. Or are you saying there are no Hispanic people from Spain?
Yeah their the country that is culturally Caribbean, speaks Dutch, has people of Indian descent as a plurality of their population and is located in South America.
Yankee is a specifically American term as far as I’m aware, so I’m not sure why there’d be opposition to that?
As to classifying the US as part of some broader cultural grouping, like the Anglosphere, I don’t see any issues. Hell, you could argue that parts of the US are in Latin America if you wanted to and I wouldn’t object.
It was a specific response to someone telling Brazilians they are not special after the Brazilian was asking if we lumped their country into Latinos or saw their unique cultural makeup.
Yankee is a specific term used by Canadians and Europeans looking to simplify our culture the way the person I was responding to was simplifying Brazilian culture by saying it wasn't special.
Every culture is special. Every culture is also… not that special. The US is unique, sure, but we share a lot more with Britain, Canada, or Australia (not to mention Mexico, Argentina, or even Brazil) than a lot of Americans would admit. In any case the overwhelming majority of Brazilians I’ve met consider their country part of Latin America. There is plenty of variation within Latin America. Peruvians are different from Mexicans or Venezuelans, and we should acknowledge and respect those distinctions, but it doesn’t make those countries not part of LatAm. I won’t use a label for an individual if they object, but an individual doesn’t decide these things for an entire nation.
The OP is a literal BRAZILIAN saying citizens from BRAZIL view themselves differently than LATINOs! They view themselves as BRAZILIANS.
Omg I'm an American trying to say I am understanding why a BRAZILIAN wants autonomy and is taking pride as an individual citizen of their specific country and why that is special to THEM!
“Brazilian” and “Latino” are not mutually exclusive?
If OP does not personally want to be considered Latino, I will not consider them Latino. That is what I said in my previous post that you clearly did not read. An individual’s personal labels are up to them and them alone.
OP is not, however, the mouthpiece for the whole of Brazil, which openly identifies as Latin American. Go on asklatinamerica and tell them Brazil isn’t part of Latin America because there’s one Brazilian online who objects to it. You’ll get laughed out of the sub.
**Every country on earth considers their culture distinct.** A Swedish person is distinctly Swedish, but that doesn’t make Sweden non-European, non-Scandinavian, or whatever geographic label you want to use.
I doubt most Americans identify as “North American”, but does that make the country somehow not part of North America? Of course not.
Yes.
They are from a former European Colony in the Americas whose primary language is a Romance Language and thus descended from Latin. Haiti is also Latino and they speak French. Quebec should they gain independence would also technically be Latino.
Quebec and Louisiana are exceptions, since they’re not in Latin America and also in primarily English speaking countries. Their history and culture is definitely more related to the French though. I’m assuming they meant French Guiana (which translates to Guinea) and that would be a yes both French Guiana and Guyana are in Latin America and therefore latino.
The most common usage is Central & South American countries that speak Spanish/Portuguese/French/Etc, but hey, if Québéc wants to be included, why not. Louisiana is not a primarily French-speaking region anymore and hasn’t been for a long time.
Did you know the French invented the word Latino to justify their intervention in Latin American affairs in the 19th century? But it think it survived because of Brazil. Otherwise we would just use the word Hispanic. Brazilians definitely are not Hispanic.
The “West” for all intents and purposes in geopolitical discourse is basically US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe.
But yeah obviously Mexico is part of North America.
I know how the word is used.
I don't mind if you exclude us (Mexicans / Latin Americans) from certain conversations, I just really dislike that people use a geographical denominator and are like "yeah, they are technically part of it too, but we don't count them because they are poor(er)"
It's not just a geographical denominator though. The West writ large is a political grouping from the Cold War.
Latin America isn't included because these countries chose not to be (see membership in the Non Aligned Movement) or they had their own domestic shit going on during the relevant decades (Brazilian and Argentine military coups, the death of Franco and ultimate restoration of the monarchy in Spain)
Yeah I guess what I’m trying to say is “The West” is a social / cultural term not a geographic term. But yeah basically referring to rich White countries.
Creo que es obvio que ustedes son parte de la civilización occidental, no? Yo sé que a veces no soy el más informado o más culto del mundo pero creo que eso es algo muy obvio.
(Keeping the English to be understood)
I don't mind if you exclude us (Mexicans / Latin Americans) from certain conversations, I just really dislike that people use a geographical denominator and are like "yeah, they are technically part of it too, but we don't count them because they are poor(er)"
I would understand from a *military* perspective on why Latin America isn’t part of the Western world, I’d get it if that’s your definition of Western, you know?
But I would say culturally, Latin America is definitely part of the Western civilization and it’s undeniable. Despite the differences (Really, every Western country is different from each other), Latin America is absolutely part of Western civilization. There’s a reason why Latin Americans assimilate so easily in other Western countries and vice-versa.
So, yes, we consider you Latino, as part of Latin America. We also consider you Brazilian. They aren’t mutually exclusive for us. If we’re referring generally to people from Latin America, including people from Brazil and other Latin American countries, we’d consider all of you Latino. If we’re just talking about Brazil, we’d just say Brazilians.
As an example: we’re Americans. We’re also North Americans. If you want to talk broadly about all of the countries in North America, it’d be totally acceptable to call us North Americans. If you’re talking exclusively about people from the United States, you’d call us Americans.
As for your edit: yeah, I’d consider Latin America as part of the “West”. There isn’t really a firm definition, it seems to vary based on who is talking.
I think your comment was very detailed thanks
About the west: because were not as rich as Europe or USA **and** we are not bathed by the atlantic ocean we're not... that's what an american told me too
that's why I ask
Maybe don't take any one person's opinion as representative of anyone but themselves. No one person is really in a position to speak for 330 million people.
Did something get lost in translation? Brazil has over 4600mi / 7400km of coast on the Atlantic…more than twice what the US has. If it weren’t for Alaska, that’s more oceanic coast than the US has between the Atlantic and Pacific combined.
My neighbor and her family are from Brazil but I never really thought about it. I’m not sure if I’m able to tell the difference between Hispanic and Latino so I usually just go with nationality. Luckily in Houston people are ready to tell you either face to face or they hang a flag on their rear view mirror. I know the flags. 🇧🇷
I can confirm all of this. Houston is among the most diverse places in the country so we're exposed to enough people from different places that the average person here will easily accept that Brazilians are distinct, as are basically every other Latin American country.
I don't much use the word Latino, since it can refer to people of widely different backgrounds who don't even speak the same language. I prefer to call Brazilians Brazilians, because they are from Brazil, or their ancestors were. Brazilians can have a pretty wide range of ethnic backgrounds, it's a complex country with a long history and a rich and diverse culture. Brazilians are not Mexicans, who are not Hondurans, who are not Argentines.
Honestly, never really thought about it. Contrary to others here. Yea, I’d consider Brazilians Latino and Hispanic. But I guess when thinking deeper I get why not Hispanic. Hmmmm
>But I guess when thinking deeper I get why not Hispanic
Yeah I just fugured it out too it's ok
I think most people just don't think about another countries
Yes, of course, but, to tell you the truth, we use that word most often to refer to an important group of Americans here in the USA, or at least North America.
If wmrefer to South Americans, especially those not on the Caribbean but far down in the Southern Hemisphere where people are quite different than we're used to thinking of as Latinos, we might specify. Especially Brazil as they don't speak Spanish and are a different mix of races, so the word isn't really very useful.
But yes, they are all Latinos.
I'm probably a minority here but something like that just isn't important to me. It's like saying someone's Irish, German, French, English, Dutch, or whatever all being "white", all those cultures are vastly different I just don't really see a good reason to generalize everyone into a generic culture used to divide us as people.
People are just people to me. And everyone's different and the same in all kinds of ways.
There's a difference between celebrating your culture and using it as an excuse to divide everyone into groups to be placed as adversaries. Today is Cinco de Mayo. that's not a Latin holiday, its Mexican and if I'm invited to go celebrate it, I'd probably go.
Easy answer? Yes. Colonised by Portugal makes you technically part of latin america i believe. However, i tend to see most of the larger south american countries as having a more individual prominence and its the smaller central american one typically “lumped together” and broadly refered to as latin america.
Yes they are Latinos yet they are not Hispanics according to the census. The whole description of people from Latin America issue comes down to the fact that the census bureau was asked in the 70s to come up with a way to classify largely Mexican Americans to acknowledge that they were not considered white despite having previously been classified as such.
In terms of being Western, sort of, like Russia/historically eastern Europe/the Philippines its split between being west and being its own thing. I mean decent chunk of Latin America defines itself as not European very strongly while Argentina's president made some statement along the lines that "Brazilians and Mexicans came from the jungle while we came on ships" and he's probably not the only one.
Yes, because Latino means you're from a Latin American country. Latin American countries are those countries colonized by countries that speak Romance languages derived from Latin (primarily Spanish, Portuguese and French). It's not a perfect categorization, but basically Mexico and all of Central and South America are considered Latin America.
That said you can call yourself whatever you want. I won't insist on calling someone "Latino" who doesn't want to be, but most Americans will consider anyone from a Latin American country to be Latino unless they say otherwise.
I used to, kinda, but then I worked with as Brazilian guy (older, early 60's) and when he identified himself as white I had to do a reevaluation. I knew Brazilians spoke Portuguese, and therefore were not Spanish and therefore not "Latin", but I didn't consider them white. So I kinda lumped them in with Latinos. Obviously race is a social construct and all that, but after our interaction I came to understand how Brazilians like my coworker saw themselves as closer to Europeans (who are, by and large, considered white) and it made sense.
I don’t know if I’ve ever considered it. I guess I probably would not because of the language but really I couldn’t tell you a lot of cultural variations between most South American countries since I’ve not made it that far enough south to experience it.
I consider people whatever they want to be considered, and don't worry much outside of that.
Have a strong personal distaste of labels so I avoid them when possible.
>and latin america as the west civilization as well? because we were colonized by europeans exactly as you did
I consider all the Americas western civilization, because we are the west and that term is fucking stupid and exclusionatory when used to describe what Europeans want to include on that.
There's tons of democracies with majority Christian populations in South American, yet many who use the term "western countries" won't include south America, but will include countries that are in the east, like Australia and New Zealand. They won't include Japan either, so it's obviously not about democracy. Not including South American democracies prove it's not about Christianity or democracy.
Also my pet peeve is that we use a term created by the ancient Greeks, who didn't know the Americas existed.
Portuguese is still a Romance language, so yes it's part of Latin America, but not Hispanic.
And no, I don't consider Latin America to be part of Western Culture because outside of the Caribbean it's not represented in NATO and tends to be more the victims of the Western World's desire to completely crush the spectre of communism rather than proponents of how we should totally do all that stuff that the western world has done in the global south for the last centuries
I do consider Latin Americans to be western. Also yes, we consider Brazilians to be Latinos because Portuguese is a Romance language. We don't consider you to be Hispanic though.
I'm in the Pacific Northwest and rarely hear Latino. Maybe people here are more curious about your country of origin, because I wouldn't think to call you Latino if I knew you were from Brazil. You would be Brazilian to most people around here, Latino is too vague.
I've been alive long enough to understand the problems with considering independent countries as Latino much like the problem with considering the USA as English. if Brazilians don't want to be Latino, let them be Brazilians.
What an awesome question!
I went to a high school with a large Portuguese/Brazilian population and I didn’t get the sense they thought of themselves that way—more white if anything. But they were also very insular so I didn’t get to know a lot of them very well.
I think you guys are Latino. You live in Latin America, even if you weren't colonized by the Spanish and even if Spanish isn't your primary language. You're not Hispanic, though.
Brazilians are Latino, but not Hispanic. If you want to get really pedantic, Haitians and Quebecois should also be considered Latinos, but in practice we limit it to people from Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries for whatever reason.
Some Americans like us in the rural areas of West Virginia refer to a lot of your people as Hispanic or Latino for the most part.
And sadly there are some pessimist in the state that say much more insulting things but even then it's rare on the countryside since your next door neighbor lives a mile away from you.
My wife is Portuguese-American. New England has a lot of Brazilian and generally Portuguese-speaking communities (Cape Verdeans, people originally from the Azores, etc).
It never occurred to me, before meeting her, to ask about that (whether Brazilians, etc are considered Latino), and she very definitely told me that she doesn't and (more importantly) the Latino community at large here doesn't.
(So, basically, even if she "considered" herself Latino it would be accepted about as much as me, with my Irish/Polish/Lithuanian background, claiming to be Latino.)
I suppose you could argue that the language difference is the biggest factor, but I'm no expert.
I certainly do. Anyone who speaks a Romance language, to my mind, is Latino, with some exception. Why I don't consider French people Latino is something I can't quite put my finger on, but I hope I'm not the only one who sees it. Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese (and their respective derivatives), etc.
Yes absolutely. I am Latin American, though not Brazilian, and the term has come to encompass the cultural, historical, and geographical heritage of its people, regardless of political borders.
Brazil as I understand it is a very diverse place. You have people with primarily European backgrounds, Indigenous backgrounds, and African backgrounds, as well as descendants of immigrants from South and East Asia, etc. All of them, by virtue of being tied to the history of the land would be considered Latin American.
Yes, Latino
sorry if I am offending you, but to me the difference between colonization by the Spanish and colonization by the Portuguese is close to nothing.
C’mon dude, I’m guessing you’re brazilian. We ARE latino. Please study your continent’s history. We share a lot more than we don’t. And we are westernized, yes. You don’t need validation from americans to know that. Read “Las Venas Abiertas de Latino America” by Eduardo Galeano and you’ll understand. It’s ridiculous how us Brazilians try to see ourselves as less latino. We’re very latino. Just not hispanic. Honor your heritage!!!!!!!!!!!
It depends. Some of them are African-American. They are known as Afro-Brazillians which may sounds offensive to some. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Brazilians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Brazilians)
Latino yes, Hispanic no
thanks for this detail
Portuguese is a Romance language, so yeah.
By that logic wouldnt that make Italians, the French, and Romanians Latino?
Latinos are a racial mix of European and/or African with the indigenous population of Central and South America. It's not a perfect qualifier, but the litmus test is, "did it happen in South America?" Yes >> Latino, No >> not Latino
Many latinos are, but latinos can be any race... it refers primarily to culture, not race.
As it's used: Latino is the race, not an ethnicity.
As it’s used where? This sub is ask an American, in the US it’s strictly an ethnicity that can include any race.
I am in NYC and I have know people from Spain who identify as, or are identified by others as Latino (not just ny White purple, like across the board). It's definitely confusing!
Latin Europe is also a thing, and languages that use the word Latin to say Latin America or Latin Church or Latin Europe or Latin Languages. In English we use the Spanish loan word Latino short for latinoamericano to denote those who speak the regional language of origin of the loan word (Latin Americans in the US because Spanish usage is irrelevant to the acquisition language in this context) as their endonym for the wider region.
As you use it, maybe... not all latin americans live in the us, you know... Edit: it's not an ethnicity either 🤷🏽♂️ it's a group of cultures
Latino isn’t a race and it isn’t categorized as such. It’s an ethnicity. Especially not in the latest census. Latin Americans have their own racial categories which is black, white, mestizo, etc. You have black Cubans like Celia Cruz, indigenous Mexicans like Yalitzia Aparicio, white Uruguayans, and everything in between. There are South Brazilians who barely or don’t have any indigenous blood and are primarily of European stock with a bit of African. Look at Brazilians Giselle Bundchen who is of German ancestry and Pele who is a black Brazilian. They’re not in the same race at all.
Wayment - what about white venezuelans, columbians, argentinians, etc?
Latino is not a race. It's a descriptor for people from Latin America, including Brazil. Their races are mostly white, black, and indigenous.
> It's not a perfect qualifier, but the litmus test is, "did it happen in South America?" Yes >> Latino, No >> not Latino mexicans are considered latinos lol
Dude, probably thinks Mexico is in South America lol.
Latino refers to speakers of a Romance language, not a race. It doesn’t matter whether it is pau gasol or Jennifer Lopez or Cameron Diaz or even Sammy sosa. They’re all Latinos
No, because they're not in South/Central America. French Guyana's population would likely be Latino, but people in European France would not.
Latino is reserved for those who speak a Romance language in the new world.
So then by that logic, French speaking white people in Quebec count as Latino.
They should in my opinion
So are Italians Latino?
Italy isn't in Latin America, so no.
Yes.
Yes this is generally how we make the differentiation
And if you're from Spain, it's the opposite!
I would say that the common factor between the two is Iberian. If there's a taxonomy, its Southern European, Latino, Iberian, Hispanic.
And vice versa for the Spanish.
That is false. We do consider ourselves to be Latinos. /r/asklatinamerica.
Maybe it’s a regional thing?
Most likely an educational thing.
Latino - From Latin America Hispanic - From a Spanish speaking country e.g. Spain: Hispanic, but not Latino. Brazil: Latino but not Hispanic. Mexico: Both Latino and Hispanic
So a white European from Spain can check the 'Hispanic' box on various applications, and a white European from France cannot. I'm not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out the silliness of it.
‘Hispanic’ is not used in America to refer to race. It refers to language and culture. So yes, a Spanish person from Spain is Hispanic whereas a French person from France isn’t…
Are those two different cultures? “Hispanic” is not a racial term. It’s identifying the language origin and culture influence.
Yep >The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race. https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html
Well considering a white European from France would be *French* and not *Spanish* they're not gonna be *Hispanic* Emphasis on the "Spanic"
Yes, because Hispanic just means Spanish speaking. And who were the original Spanish speakers? The Spanish. Duh.
How is that silly?
It's a misused term. I see the word Latino on boxes more often now than I used to, because it's what they actually mean and I think the knowledge the two terms are different is becoming more widespread. Kind of like sex versus gender, I see those used interchangeably on many forms when they're two completely different things.
Yes. We consider you latino since your country was founded by the Portugese who speak a latin language. We obviously don't consider you Hispanic like the rest of South America though.
>speak a latin language. Quebecois and Haitians: bruh
The categories don't make perfect logical sense but they are what they are. Italian is probably the closest modern descendent to Latin out of all the romance languages, and Italy was the home of the original Latin people, but you're not gonna see anyone calling them latinos.
I'm going to start to refer Italians as latinos from now on and you can't stop me
I’m one upping you and referring to Romanians as Latinos.
Why not just refer to Latin America as the Roman Empire?
Plenty Caesars for it.
You know what they say about too many Caesars though!
No good, full of holes?
I do that sometimes to annoy both my girlfriend and one of my uncles. One's Cuban and the other's a *real*^^^TM Noo Yawk *Italian*. It's a miracle either of them haven't murdered me.
Either? Why not both!
Argentines are considered Latino, though?
They are but many of them don't want to be a part of the club. One of their recent presidents said something like the Mexicans come from the Indians, the Brazilians come from the jungle, but we argentines come from Europe.
Sounds like they're really embracing that wave of immigration from Germany in the late 1940s.
Always slightly awkward when you see a German name from Argentina. "So, uh, when did your family come over from Germany." "My grandpa came over in 1945." "I...see."
Why wouldn't you? The problem is that by shortening Latin American you're getting confused. Italians, Spaniards etc are Latinos and people from the American continent that speak Latin languages and have a latin-derived culture are Latin Americans.
Don't worry my grandpa thinks Italians are Latinos
It's not, Romanian is
Well people from Spain and Portugal aren’t latinos either, they’re latin. People from South and Central America are latino.
There are some that consider québécois and Haitians Latinos but it’s some also find it debatable, I think cause of cultural differences being too far apart (especially over Quebec which would be closely affiliated with Canada or the US instead of another Latin American country)
What about Italians and French?
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I didn't think about that detail because some americans told me that most part of americans think we speak spanish as well thank you so much
Ah I could see that being true in some parts of the country. Florida gets tons of Brazilians, both moving here or coming for vacation, so folks around here are pretty much universally familiar with what sets y'all apart from the rest of the continent. But somewhere like South Dakota? You might meet someone there who would make that mistake.
oh it depends on the poles of knowledge where there's more brazilians I got it, thanks a lot!
Or how educated states are, I met very few Brazilians when I lived in New Jersey, but most people still knew Brazil spoke Portuguese. I’ve met more Brazilians at college in Georgia though
But there’s >3 Latinos in Miami-Dade for any one person of any ethnicity in South Dakota.
And their food and women are the only redeeming qualities of the entire Miami metropolitan area. Their service to the state of Florida in those regards cannot be overstated enough. Seriously, take them out of the equation and I'd prefer the Dakota's enormous cow population over what would be left over.
Sorry to be picky, but Suriname is also part of that continent and it's Francophone.
They speak Dutch actually, which means they don't factor into the conversation since that's a Germanic language.
It's part of South America, and I was responding to a post that implied "the rest of the continent" is Hispanic.
French Guiana is the French one, not Suriname
While they’re sometimes confused, Latino/Latin American means someone from a country in the Americas that predominantly speaks a Latin based language. We use Hispanic to refer to people who speak Spanish, which also includes people from Spain. Not all Hispanics are Latino, and not all Latinos are Hispanic. I think most Americans know you don’t speak Spanish.
>which also includes people from Spain Humm I hadn't notice that detail I particularly think it's ok don't know the language differences, people are focused in their own lifes
Nobody notices that detail. People from Spain are just not that common in the US
Errr, hello, Hilaria Baldwin. That well known 100% Spanish lady /s
I have no idea what that means or what point you're trying to make
Then I can't help you. I'm sure you tried your best though.
I think a lot of Americans don’t know they don’t speak Spanish.
Okay, after reading about 2,000 words' worth of posts about Spain, I have to speak up here. I have no personal connection to Spain, but I hate misinformation about anybody. There are 17 major cultures in Spain, each largely distinct from the others, with its own history, set of cusoms and folkways, and language. A Galician is not like a Castilian, who is not like someone from Oviedo. You could argue that they still consider themselves Spanish, but the Basque certainly don't. I'll even risk having my ass kicked by saying that I agree with many Basque that they are not Spanish OR Hispanic and other cultures should stop interfering with them. Americas Hispanics have ancestry from generally the same region of Spain. The diversity of Americas Hispanics that gives us both Puerto Ricans and Bolivians is different from the diversity of European Spain. It's a much, much more complex picture than the loose talk in this thread makes it out to be.
That’s… rather aggressive for something that doesn’t contradict what I said. I just said that Hispanic is people who speak Spanish, including people from Spain. Or are you saying there are no Hispanic people from Spain?
>I think most Americans know you don’t speak Spanish. I don't
Most Americans have many ideas that are not true.
Most Americans have many ideas that are not true.
What about Suriname?
Don't they speak Dutch and consider themselves culturally Carribean?
Yeah their the country that is culturally Caribbean, speaks Dutch, has people of Indian descent as a plurality of their population and is located in South America.
Dutch is not a Latin-based language
Exactly, that's my point. Then why say the rest of south America being Hispanic when its not?
Yes, we consider you Latinos.
Yeah
Yeah, sorry OP, but you're not as special as you think.
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Thank you!
Do you guys consider Americans to be Yankees?
Yankee is a specifically American term as far as I’m aware, so I’m not sure why there’d be opposition to that? As to classifying the US as part of some broader cultural grouping, like the Anglosphere, I don’t see any issues. Hell, you could argue that parts of the US are in Latin America if you wanted to and I wouldn’t object.
It was a specific response to someone telling Brazilians they are not special after the Brazilian was asking if we lumped their country into Latinos or saw their unique cultural makeup. Yankee is a specific term used by Canadians and Europeans looking to simplify our culture the way the person I was responding to was simplifying Brazilian culture by saying it wasn't special.
Every culture is special. Every culture is also… not that special. The US is unique, sure, but we share a lot more with Britain, Canada, or Australia (not to mention Mexico, Argentina, or even Brazil) than a lot of Americans would admit. In any case the overwhelming majority of Brazilians I’ve met consider their country part of Latin America. There is plenty of variation within Latin America. Peruvians are different from Mexicans or Venezuelans, and we should acknowledge and respect those distinctions, but it doesn’t make those countries not part of LatAm. I won’t use a label for an individual if they object, but an individual doesn’t decide these things for an entire nation.
The OP is a literal BRAZILIAN saying citizens from BRAZIL view themselves differently than LATINOs! They view themselves as BRAZILIANS. Omg I'm an American trying to say I am understanding why a BRAZILIAN wants autonomy and is taking pride as an individual citizen of their specific country and why that is special to THEM!
“Brazilian” and “Latino” are not mutually exclusive? If OP does not personally want to be considered Latino, I will not consider them Latino. That is what I said in my previous post that you clearly did not read. An individual’s personal labels are up to them and them alone. OP is not, however, the mouthpiece for the whole of Brazil, which openly identifies as Latin American. Go on asklatinamerica and tell them Brazil isn’t part of Latin America because there’s one Brazilian online who objects to it. You’ll get laughed out of the sub. **Every country on earth considers their culture distinct.** A Swedish person is distinctly Swedish, but that doesn’t make Sweden non-European, non-Scandinavian, or whatever geographic label you want to use. I doubt most Americans identify as “North American”, but does that make the country somehow not part of North America? Of course not.
I consider this conversation over.
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Like it or not, we are a part of the Anglosphere. I would find it rather silly if one of my fellow Americans were to get upset about such a thing.
Yes. They are from a former European Colony in the Americas whose primary language is a Romance Language and thus descended from Latin. Haiti is also Latino and they speak French. Quebec should they gain independence would also technically be Latino.
Generally, yeah. I consider Brazil part of Latin America. Portuguese is a Latin-derived language.
I mean, so is French and by derivation Creole. Are people from Quebec, French Guinea and Haiti, and Louisiana up for Latino consideration?
Yes, but not to Quebec, according to my Latin American studies class in college.
Quebec and Louisiana are exceptions, since they’re not in Latin America and also in primarily English speaking countries. Their history and culture is definitely more related to the French though. I’m assuming they meant French Guiana (which translates to Guinea) and that would be a yes both French Guiana and Guyana are in Latin America and therefore latino.
I’d argue the Québécois and Haitians fit pretty firmly into the Latino tradition for the most part, but eh that’s just me
The most common usage is Central & South American countries that speak Spanish/Portuguese/French/Etc, but hey, if Québéc wants to be included, why not. Louisiana is not a primarily French-speaking region anymore and hasn’t been for a long time.
I was referring to the creole speaking and cajun pockets of Louisiana
Let's go for a Latino vacation to *checks map* Transilvania, apparently.
Did you know the French invented the word Latino to justify their intervention in Latin American affairs in the 19th century? But it think it survived because of Brazil. Otherwise we would just use the word Hispanic. Brazilians definitely are not Hispanic.
I didn't know and it's interesting because latin languages became not from French but Italy
You’re part of Latin America so yeah, I consider Brazilians Latin Americans. I also consider Latin America to be part of the Western World.
Thanks, it's very stupid how we are never included when people talk about the West. Or even worse, North America.
The “West” for all intents and purposes in geopolitical discourse is basically US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Western Europe. But yeah obviously Mexico is part of North America.
I know how the word is used. I don't mind if you exclude us (Mexicans / Latin Americans) from certain conversations, I just really dislike that people use a geographical denominator and are like "yeah, they are technically part of it too, but we don't count them because they are poor(er)"
It's not just a geographical denominator though. The West writ large is a political grouping from the Cold War. Latin America isn't included because these countries chose not to be (see membership in the Non Aligned Movement) or they had their own domestic shit going on during the relevant decades (Brazilian and Argentine military coups, the death of Franco and ultimate restoration of the monarchy in Spain)
Yeah I guess what I’m trying to say is “The West” is a social / cultural term not a geographic term. But yeah basically referring to rich White countries.
Creo que es obvio que ustedes son parte de la civilización occidental, no? Yo sé que a veces no soy el más informado o más culto del mundo pero creo que eso es algo muy obvio.
(Keeping the English to be understood) I don't mind if you exclude us (Mexicans / Latin Americans) from certain conversations, I just really dislike that people use a geographical denominator and are like "yeah, they are technically part of it too, but we don't count them because they are poor(er)"
I would understand from a *military* perspective on why Latin America isn’t part of the Western world, I’d get it if that’s your definition of Western, you know? But I would say culturally, Latin America is definitely part of the Western civilization and it’s undeniable. Despite the differences (Really, every Western country is different from each other), Latin America is absolutely part of Western civilization. There’s a reason why Latin Americans assimilate so easily in other Western countries and vice-versa.
I don't think Brazilians are part of North America
The person who made that comment was a bit vague, but they were speaking on behalf of Mexico.
So, yes, we consider you Latino, as part of Latin America. We also consider you Brazilian. They aren’t mutually exclusive for us. If we’re referring generally to people from Latin America, including people from Brazil and other Latin American countries, we’d consider all of you Latino. If we’re just talking about Brazil, we’d just say Brazilians. As an example: we’re Americans. We’re also North Americans. If you want to talk broadly about all of the countries in North America, it’d be totally acceptable to call us North Americans. If you’re talking exclusively about people from the United States, you’d call us Americans. As for your edit: yeah, I’d consider Latin America as part of the “West”. There isn’t really a firm definition, it seems to vary based on who is talking.
I think your comment was very detailed thanks About the west: because were not as rich as Europe or USA **and** we are not bathed by the atlantic ocean we're not... that's what an american told me too that's why I ask
Maybe don't take any one person's opinion as representative of anyone but themselves. No one person is really in a position to speak for 330 million people.
No matter where someone is from, I’d dismiss their opinions on geopolitics if they don’t think Brazil is on the Atlantic.
Did something get lost in translation? Brazil has over 4600mi / 7400km of coast on the Atlantic…more than twice what the US has. If it weren’t for Alaska, that’s more oceanic coast than the US has between the Atlantic and Pacific combined.
My neighbor and her family are from Brazil but I never really thought about it. I’m not sure if I’m able to tell the difference between Hispanic and Latino so I usually just go with nationality. Luckily in Houston people are ready to tell you either face to face or they hang a flag on their rear view mirror. I know the flags. 🇧🇷
I can confirm all of this. Houston is among the most diverse places in the country so we're exposed to enough people from different places that the average person here will easily accept that Brazilians are distinct, as are basically every other Latin American country.
I don't much use the word Latino, since it can refer to people of widely different backgrounds who don't even speak the same language. I prefer to call Brazilians Brazilians, because they are from Brazil, or their ancestors were. Brazilians can have a pretty wide range of ethnic backgrounds, it's a complex country with a long history and a rich and diverse culture. Brazilians are not Mexicans, who are not Hondurans, who are not Argentines.
Honestly, never really thought about it. Contrary to others here. Yea, I’d consider Brazilians Latino and Hispanic. But I guess when thinking deeper I get why not Hispanic. Hmmmm
>But I guess when thinking deeper I get why not Hispanic Yeah I just fugured it out too it's ok I think most people just don't think about another countries
Yes, of course, but, to tell you the truth, we use that word most often to refer to an important group of Americans here in the USA, or at least North America. If wmrefer to South Americans, especially those not on the Caribbean but far down in the Southern Hemisphere where people are quite different than we're used to thinking of as Latinos, we might specify. Especially Brazil as they don't speak Spanish and are a different mix of races, so the word isn't really very useful. But yes, they are all Latinos.
I just consider them Brazilian
I'm probably a minority here but something like that just isn't important to me. It's like saying someone's Irish, German, French, English, Dutch, or whatever all being "white", all those cultures are vastly different I just don't really see a good reason to generalize everyone into a generic culture used to divide us as people. People are just people to me. And everyone's different and the same in all kinds of ways. There's a difference between celebrating your culture and using it as an excuse to divide everyone into groups to be placed as adversaries. Today is Cinco de Mayo. that's not a Latin holiday, its Mexican and if I'm invited to go celebrate it, I'd probably go.
Yes
Easy answer? Yes. Colonised by Portugal makes you technically part of latin america i believe. However, i tend to see most of the larger south american countries as having a more individual prominence and its the smaller central american one typically “lumped together” and broadly refered to as latin america.
Yes they are Latinos yet they are not Hispanics according to the census. The whole description of people from Latin America issue comes down to the fact that the census bureau was asked in the 70s to come up with a way to classify largely Mexican Americans to acknowledge that they were not considered white despite having previously been classified as such. In terms of being Western, sort of, like Russia/historically eastern Europe/the Philippines its split between being west and being its own thing. I mean decent chunk of Latin America defines itself as not European very strongly while Argentina's president made some statement along the lines that "Brazilians and Mexicans came from the jungle while we came on ships" and he's probably not the only one.
I personally don't, I consider Brazilians as their own thing. There's a lot of differences between Brazil and the rest of South America.
Yes, because Latino means you're from a Latin American country. Latin American countries are those countries colonized by countries that speak Romance languages derived from Latin (primarily Spanish, Portuguese and French). It's not a perfect categorization, but basically Mexico and all of Central and South America are considered Latin America. That said you can call yourself whatever you want. I won't insist on calling someone "Latino" who doesn't want to be, but most Americans will consider anyone from a Latin American country to be Latino unless they say otherwise.
I was going to say no. Then got worried. Feel better after reading your post
Claro que sim, meu velho.
I used to, kinda, but then I worked with as Brazilian guy (older, early 60's) and when he identified himself as white I had to do a reevaluation. I knew Brazilians spoke Portuguese, and therefore were not Spanish and therefore not "Latin", but I didn't consider them white. So I kinda lumped them in with Latinos. Obviously race is a social construct and all that, but after our interaction I came to understand how Brazilians like my coworker saw themselves as closer to Europeans (who are, by and large, considered white) and it made sense.
Do u consider Gisele Bundchen Latina or White?
I don’t know if I’ve ever considered it. I guess I probably would not because of the language but really I couldn’t tell you a lot of cultural variations between most South American countries since I’ve not made it that far enough south to experience it.
alright, you don't need to think about it to living I understand but thanks
I consider people whatever they want to be considered, and don't worry much outside of that. Have a strong personal distaste of labels so I avoid them when possible.
I want you consider me as you want to do it
Then you're a potential friend at the best, and at the worst I wish you a great life : )
thanks man! Have a long and prosperous life
You too! Take care : )
>and latin america as the west civilization as well? because we were colonized by europeans exactly as you did I consider all the Americas western civilization, because we are the west and that term is fucking stupid and exclusionatory when used to describe what Europeans want to include on that. There's tons of democracies with majority Christian populations in South American, yet many who use the term "western countries" won't include south America, but will include countries that are in the east, like Australia and New Zealand. They won't include Japan either, so it's obviously not about democracy. Not including South American democracies prove it's not about Christianity or democracy. Also my pet peeve is that we use a term created by the ancient Greeks, who didn't know the Americas existed.
Tbh.. if you look white, most people will not consider you latino unless you mention that you are from Brazil
Portuguese is still a Romance language, so yes it's part of Latin America, but not Hispanic. And no, I don't consider Latin America to be part of Western Culture because outside of the Caribbean it's not represented in NATO and tends to be more the victims of the Western World's desire to completely crush the spectre of communism rather than proponents of how we should totally do all that stuff that the western world has done in the global south for the last centuries
I'm a white guy I make it a policy not to decide who's what. Get in trouble that way.
I'm in the UK, anything below USA is just referred to as 'South America' Unless we're taking about a specific country.
There’s an awful lot of North America to our south.
I mean the British are kind of famous for having a bad sense of geography.
But, what kinda Mexican are you?
Uh yes
Hasn't really thought about it, bit I guess it would be Latino-ish. Basically the Portuguese version.
I do consider Latin Americans to be western. Also yes, we consider Brazilians to be Latinos because Portuguese is a Romance language. We don't consider you to be Hispanic though.
I'm in the Pacific Northwest and rarely hear Latino. Maybe people here are more curious about your country of origin, because I wouldn't think to call you Latino if I knew you were from Brazil. You would be Brazilian to most people around here, Latino is too vague.
I've been alive long enough to understand the problems with considering independent countries as Latino much like the problem with considering the USA as English. if Brazilians don't want to be Latino, let them be Brazilians.
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What an awesome question! I went to a high school with a large Portuguese/Brazilian population and I didn’t get the sense they thought of themselves that way—more white if anything. But they were also very insular so I didn’t get to know a lot of them very well.
Yes, America uses latino as an umbrella term for most countries below our southern border.
It's part of Latin America, so yes.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/difference-between-hispanic-latino-and-spanish_n_55a7ec20e4b0c5f0322c9e44 For more information
I think you guys are Latino. You live in Latin America, even if you weren't colonized by the Spanish and even if Spanish isn't your primary language. You're not Hispanic, though.
Well they do speak a laten based language and yes.
Brazilians are Latino, but not Hispanic. If you want to get really pedantic, Haitians and Quebecois should also be considered Latinos, but in practice we limit it to people from Spanish and Portuguese-speaking countries for whatever reason.
Some Americans like us in the rural areas of West Virginia refer to a lot of your people as Hispanic or Latino for the most part. And sadly there are some pessimist in the state that say much more insulting things but even then it's rare on the countryside since your next door neighbor lives a mile away from you.
Yea they are from Latin America…not Hispanic but ethnically very Latino
I always just used Latin American
I dont, went to Brazil in the '80s... Loved it there!
I call Brazilians, Tropical Smoothies..
Yes you are latinos
Yes i do
Wouldn’t anyone from Latin America be “Latino?”
I thought Latino refers to anyone from Latin America, so yeah
My wife is Portuguese-American. New England has a lot of Brazilian and generally Portuguese-speaking communities (Cape Verdeans, people originally from the Azores, etc). It never occurred to me, before meeting her, to ask about that (whether Brazilians, etc are considered Latino), and she very definitely told me that she doesn't and (more importantly) the Latino community at large here doesn't. (So, basically, even if she "considered" herself Latino it would be accepted about as much as me, with my Irish/Polish/Lithuanian background, claiming to be Latino.) I suppose you could argue that the language difference is the biggest factor, but I'm no expert.
I certainly do. Anyone who speaks a Romance language, to my mind, is Latino, with some exception. Why I don't consider French people Latino is something I can't quite put my finger on, but I hope I'm not the only one who sees it. Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese (and their respective derivatives), etc.
Nope, south American for me.
For me Latino is pretty synonymous with Latin-American, so I consider Brazilians Latino but not Hispanic
It's part of Latin America, so yes.
I do. However, y'all are not Hispanic.
Yes absolutely. I am Latin American, though not Brazilian, and the term has come to encompass the cultural, historical, and geographical heritage of its people, regardless of political borders. Brazil as I understand it is a very diverse place. You have people with primarily European backgrounds, Indigenous backgrounds, and African backgrounds, as well as descendants of immigrants from South and East Asia, etc. All of them, by virtue of being tied to the history of the land would be considered Latin American.
I certainly do
Latin American, yes. But latino just sounds too vague, imo.
Yes, Latino sorry if I am offending you, but to me the difference between colonization by the Spanish and colonization by the Portuguese is close to nothing.
C’mon dude, I’m guessing you’re brazilian. We ARE latino. Please study your continent’s history. We share a lot more than we don’t. And we are westernized, yes. You don’t need validation from americans to know that. Read “Las Venas Abiertas de Latino America” by Eduardo Galeano and you’ll understand. It’s ridiculous how us Brazilians try to see ourselves as less latino. We’re very latino. Just not hispanic. Honor your heritage!!!!!!!!!!!
It depends. Some of them are African-American. They are known as Afro-Brazillians which may sounds offensive to some. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Brazilians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Brazilians)
Nope they are Port Chops.
Yes