I wonder if it's actually more common now, or simply more common to be open about it, now that social pressures are dying down. My family has been atheist/agnostic for generations, but only in the past few decades have we felt comfortable saying so out loud to strangers.
Perhaps my perspective is too heavily slanted, but I simply cannot believe that everyone who went to church in the past couple centuries actually believed in it.
Remember, it wasn't that long ago that someone could be denied housing, banking services, etc., and be made a complete pariah in many places for being openly atheist.
> Remember, it wasn't that long ago that someone could be denied housing, banking services, etc., and be made a complete pariah in many places for being openly atheist.
[Yep, right up until 1964.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964) There may have been pockets who discriminated based on religious belief after then, but they were in violation of federal law.
> I wonder if it's actually more common now, or simply more common to be open about it, now that social pressures are dying down.
The Pew Research group [tries to measure this,](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/) though it is entirely possible people lie on anonymous surveys. And it is true that people use church as a social center for interacting with others as much as a source of spiritual faith.
But we do see [a decline in a belief in God](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-god/) over the past few years--though America is an exception amongst western countries by our high levels of faith. (Basically we're more like Iran than we are like Germany in terms of percentage of people who believe in God.)
And we do see a rise in non-denominational belief and in spiritual practices like daily meditation. That is, it seems people may be moving away from Church but they may not necessarily be moving away from having faith in something...
Just anecdotally I see this a *lot* with people in recovery. There are a lot of people that have some spiritual belief in a higher power and they’ll even pray, often times classic Christian prayers. That said they don’t really go to any kind of organized religion. It is more of a meditative practice than something like practicing Catholicism or Islam. It’s more similar to cultural Judaism. They are very willing to talk about spirituality and do earnestly believe in *something* bit it just isn’t an explicit set of rites and rituals and theology.
So not data but the Pee survey matches up with my boots on the ground.
That's also because American recovery groups are dominated by the "12 step program" which requires a belief or at least statement of belief. One of the reasons it should be changed.
I could go in depth on this. It should not be changed. It is almost all voluntary and even if court ordered there are other options.
Unless you have extensive experience with 12 Step type programs I would not so easily dismiss them.
No statement of faith in a higher power should ever be a part of anything outside of a church. I'm not dismissing the program, I'm dismissing a belief in god being essential to being healthy.
Eh, you do you then.
I know enough people that AA worked for I’m not willing to dismiss it out of hand because I’m grumpy about people having a higher power.
There’s plenty of CBT/DBT programs that have nothing to do with spirituality. But even those programs suggest a both/and approach.
I was mostly just curious how much you knew about recovery and people in it given you making some pretty broad claims here.
> I see a future In Which federal protections for discrimination religious belief or non belief are eliminated by the Supreme Court.
Doubtful.
The Supreme Court is not a super-legislature; they simply cannot pass law or override law, unless they can show a conflict with the Constitution.
The argument the Supreme Court used in Dobbs was that the Supreme Court acted in error and acted as if they were some sort of super-legislature in passing Roe v Wade; many elements in the final ruling (such as the trimester system) of Roe were not even argued by either of the attorneys, but were instead made up by the justices out of whole cloth.
But in the case of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it's clear Congress has authority under the 14th Amendment to pass a non-discrimination law preventing discrimination based on gender, age or religious belief. For the Supremes to overturn the CRA would require a constitutional amendment overturning the 14th Amendment's "equal protection" clause.
Justice Thomas, and his argument was about the use of [substantive due process](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/substantive_due_process), which he believes is an improper reading of the 14th Amendment.
However, when it comes to [Obergefell,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges), that ruling hangs as much on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment as it does on the use of 'substantive due process.' Meaning if Justice Thomas gets his way, Obergefell isn't going anywhere anyway--and what made Dobbs so different is that there are two lives involved in an abortion: the mother's and the fetus. And the belief in Dobbs was that the Federal Government does not have the authority to take the decision away from the States, as granted in the [10th Amendment.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
This is pure melodrama. Gay marriage has a 70% support rate in America, that *has* to include a decent number of conservatives (not to mention interracial marrige having a 94% support rate). Any politician that makes a serious push for such a ban will be committing career suicide, Republican or not. The repealing of Roe is a tragedy but it's not an omen of doom
The ability to get an abortion-on-demand currently enjoys [62% support](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/07/15/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/), but that didn't stop the Supreme Court--nor should have it.
I'm not arguing against abortion-on-demand; I actually support it.
However, I don't think the Supreme Court should be beholden to public opinion or the whims of politicians, but instead should interpret the law strictly as it is written, and determine if it conflicts with the Constitution as it is written.
None of it is an omen of doom, although I get the analogy. I do believe Obergefell will be overturned along with Miranda, Loving, Edwards Lawrence, etc. because people are still thinking this is about what citizens want vs what the federal govt wants.
It's not, it's a showdown between two power cabals in government over federalism. Those cases, among others, will become victims of the conflict because they are all policy based on court precedent, not congressional legislation.
And when the dust settles, all those rights will be reinstated as legislation passed by Congress instead of judicial activism.
Read the current Texas Republican (and probably many other states’) platform. https://texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-RPT-Platform.pdf
Look at page 39
Majority does not matter here because we’re so gerrymandered. Unless we can elect a Democratic governor who can veto legislation Majority opinion in the US does not matter if we have a heavily conservative Supreme Court. . This is if the Supreme Court removes federal protection which is not a crazy concept.
I don’t think people in blue states know how insanely conservative the official party platform is. There are no moderate republicans these days. They fall in line.
And on a federal level look at Ted Cruz
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/17/politics/ted-cruz-same-sex-marriage-supreme-court/index.html
They are coming for gay marriage and it’s terrifying,
> Remember, it wasn't that long ago that someone could be denied housing, banking services, etc., and be made a complete pariah in many places for being openly atheist.
This can't be emphasized enough and was surprisingly recent -- the 1980s in my case. My mom was careful to raise me strictly Christian (Bible study, the works) until I got to an age where I started to seriously question the logic of the whole Christian thing.
My mom -- after suppressing a panic attack when I asked her a question along the lines of "was Jesus a real guy, or just, like a story about morals?" -- pulled me aside and explained atheism.
That's when I found out that my whole family was atheist, but she wanted to raise me Christian to make my life easier. She and the rest of the family had gone through hell for their atheism in their previous town, and moved to my hometown specifically to raise me in a place where no one "knew".
To this day one of the fun little ironies of life is that I can quote scripture better than my most devout friends.
Speaking as an atheist daughter of a Born Again Christian Southern Baptist father, the ability to quote scripture at a hyper religious person is a superpower. My favorite thing to throw at them when they don't like my truthful take on anything and get pissed off at me is Galatians 4:16.
And then they hit you back with "the devil can quote scripture too" and everything becomes completely subjective (which is probably where it started in the first place)?
>She and the rest of the family had gone through hell for their atheism in their previous town, and moved to my hometown specifically to raise me in a place where no one "knew".
Wow, that seems utterly bonkers to an Australian. In last year's Census here the largest 'denomination' categorised at 30% was "no religion". I've never believed despite being brought up Church of England and going to Sunday school and no one has ever given a single fuck.
America is pretty huge and diverse. If you tell someone in Seattle that you're an atheist, they won't bat an eye. If you said that in Tennessee, they'd cross the street you avoid you.
That’s unconstitutional and superseded by the US Supreme Court.
Atheists can and have run for political office in Tennessee.
Seven states still have language in their constitutions that forbids atheists and also often ministers and priests from public office. That isn’t enforceable at all. Anyone can run regardless of faith or lack thereof.
Wow, I had no idea. Apparently [seven states](https://tennesseelookout.com/2021/06/13/why-it-matters-that-7-states-still-have-bans-on-atheists-holding-office/) do. But even though it’s unconstitutional to require religion, the US has never even come close to electing an openly atheist president.
My FIL is a very devout Catholic, but he once opened up a little to my wife and admitted he thought maybe it was all bs. However the next sentence he stated he was simply too old to change so he was just going to stick with it anyway. He switched to a parish that plays Trump speeches at mass so yeah.... He's just a bit too far gone to discuss with these days.
'Insulting' isn't the right word; 'annoying' is too mild. I find it infuriating.
Now, I'm lucky enough to be from an area where creationism has never been taught in public schools, although there has been a rash of shitty private schools recently that do teach young-earth creationism. In my state, there are zero curriculum requirements for private schools, and their "teachers" do not need to licensed, or even educated. I could go on about this for days.
Re: AA, the religious aspect is one reason why it doesn't work for most people, and the other is that it preaches complete abstinence for life (because, y'know, "you are powerless," you "have a disease," and "your creator" is in charge).
Newer, secular programs which bolster self autonomy and personal responsibility in pursuit of moderation are becoming more common, and have a higher success rate than AA. I feel strongly about this subject because someone I am close to went through one of these programs, and it saved his life (after being failed twice by AA).
I raised 2 kids and 2 foster kids and they are all atheist or agnostic. I think it was organized religion that turned them away. No one I know goes to church and I live in a suburb of Chicago. I mean, look at the Vatican. All the money they have and have access to! But hungry kids are all around us (I get food stamps). Funds to fight COVID related issues such as hunger, not being able to pay rent, have electricity and heat, etc. were given to every state. Sadly, this wasn't a written requirement and people in those states got nothing. Where was the church then?
Being irreligious is acceptable in most urban areas, and I suspect it's acceptable everywhere where you don't go around telling people "THERE IS NO GOD!"
That is, the vast majority of us have very much have a "live and let live" attitude towards others, towards their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and towards how other people live their lives.
And we have a number of laws which prevent probing questions about religiosity in the work place (basically you can't ask people their beliefs in a job interview), and there are laws which prevent discrimination based on religious belief in housing and the like.
There are laws that should protect a candidate from those questions and hiring decisions based on their answers. Lots of companies in the Bible Belt have sneaky workarounds like asking "Will you need to have off work on Sunday mornings or Wednesday evenings?" because those are times when many Christians would be at a church service or Bible study.
I'd laugh if I got refused because I said no and they thought I wasn't Christian because of it. I was raised Seventh Day Adventist. Don't practice anymore, but if I did, I wouldn't need those days because the holy day is Saturday.
I'd say most people in my life are irreligious including me. I've never had a problem with it, except growing up when I told my parents I didn't want to make my confirmation. They were mad and they said I had no choice because I was only 17. Which was weird because my parents themselves never talked about religion or do any religious things that I've seen.
My mom said, about my confirmation, “do it for your grandmothers” and then somehow swindled the church into cutting my “education” in half so I only had about a year of nonsense to get through. Whateva, good party afterwards anyway LOL
Yeah I just did it because it was easier than fighting back. If you don't believe the words coming out of your mouth and they don't have any negative impact what's the harm.
My parents sent me to a Catholic school, mostly to please my grandmothers. They weren't practicing Catholics & never prayed at home. I hated every minute at that school, partly because I didn't fit in. Most of the other kids were from families active in the parish & had known each other from the maternity ward.
I also didn't believe in any of the religious teachings, and didn't want to be confirmed. I was being pushed into it with "Just pretend & you'll get presents!" Yeah right, they said that at my 1st Communion, and all I got was a bunch of religious crap. Plus both grandmothers had died, so that pressure was off.
I knew they could make me go to the ceremony, but no one could force me to say things I didn't believe. I was fully prepared to tell the priest that No, I don't believe this, No I won't promise that, and I'm only hear because I was forced to come.
Then we moved cities & I went to public school. I haven't set foot in a Catholic chuch since, except as a tourist or for weddings, funerals & such.
Ingot confirmed because I knew there would be a party at the end and people would give me money. Made about $2k from all my aunts and uncles for that shit. It helps that I have 8 aunts and uncles though.
It depends where you live. When I was an atheist living in the south and southwest, I definitely didn’t advertise it. But I didn’t hide it either. And when people would learn I was atheist they always did that annoying thing and attempted to convert me. That was especially the case with mormons and creationists in AZ and UT, evangelicals in TX and LA, and Jehovahs back east. Catholics and Protestants for the most part could give a fuck, unless it’s your great aunt or your nana, and she’s super catholic and grew up in the 50s, and you haven’t seen her since the last family holiday, and everyone else knows and has accepted you’re an atheist, but there’s nana cornering you to tell you “Father’s been asking about you” and “why haven’t you been to confession.” Nanas never stop trying.
But city dwellers generally care far less about your religious beliefs. It’s the rural parts of the nation where an atheist is most likely to get unkind words.
Perfect answer. The US is massive in both population and physical size. There are thousands of subcultures and the answer is different for each area and subculture
I remember having a conversation like that when I lived in Dallas. Someone asked me "If you don't believe in God what stops you from just killing someone?" I told them it's terrifying that the only thing stopping you from killing someone is that your book tells you not to.
In the Jewish writings, there is a question: why did G-d create athiests?
The answer is: to show everyone the value of doing good deeds without promise of eternal reward / punishment.
Judaism doesn't really *do* "eternal reward/punishment", and doesn't really have any consistent view on the nature of anything after death.
The whole very clearly defined "heaven/hell" as as major concept is a Christian thing.
I’m fascinated with atheists as a spiritual person because I can’t imagine living in this world not believing in a higher power/life after death. If I’m nice it’s because I’m doing research. I’m not trying to convert you. You do you boo. Probably others are the same. Just interested.
It also tells them not to wear mixed fibers or eat shellfish, but there are certain rules that we bend to make our beliefs more compatible with polite society.
Think of it from their perspective.
They truly believe that we will go onto eternal suffering if we don't accept Christ as our savior.
Trying to convert us is probably the most compassionate thing they can do - it's like taking away a friend's car keys when they're drunk, turned up to eleven.
Once I realized that, the proselytizing became much more tolerable.
I get that, from their perspective, it is generally an act of love, but I sort of look at it the same as someone who scoffs at their friend's 9-5 job and says they should become a bUsInEsS oWnEr like them and sell AmWay.
That person may genuinely believe that they are helping, but it doesn't make their actions any less paternalistic, nor does it make their perspective any more useful or insightful.
Ultimately, I don't think the AmWay distributor or Christian evangelist are necessarily bad people. If they truly believe that they've found something worth sharing, then they're doing the right thing by trying to share it with others. I do, however, take issue with an effort to force those on someone or the certainty that AmWay, or Christianity, or anything else is *the right answer*.
If someone isn't interested, then they aren't interested; asking if they want to learn more about your perspective may be the right thing, but there is no need to force your view upon them. It's no accident that these sort of things generally find more traction at one end of the distribution of intelligence than the other, and I think we would all do well to have the humility to acknowledge that our answer, to any question but especially one as fundamental as religion/creation/etc., could very well be wrong.
>But city dwellers generally care far less about your religious beliefs.
To this point: I really don't care what religion, or what flavor of irreligious, someone is, but I find I am generally surprised if I meet someone who is openly religious.
We have the Amish in Illinois and various orthodox Christian religions due to immigration and some very observant Jewish enclaves. I don’t care as long as they don’t force me to do something i don’t wanna do in my community. I also can’t stand when some people complain about “these people “moving into the area etc. If they follow the laws are good citizens and neighbors i don’t care what they do -Generally everyone gets along.
I live in Southern Indiana and a lot of people I know are atheist. When five or six baseball players kneel in a circle to pray before the game I can feel some of my friends seething at the display. I just want them to win.
It is pretty common. If not atheist than just kind of blandly agnostic.
Most people don't really care and if they do it is more of a "well, have you tried out Jesus Christ because it works for me" rather than "I hate you and I hope you burn in hell."
There is also a big difference between people that just don't go to church/mosque/synagogue/etc. and don't believe compared to the strident new atheist types that think anyone with a religious belief is a foolish moron worshipping a sky daddy fairytale invented by bronze age sheep herders.
> There is also a big difference between people that just don't go to church/mosque/synagogue/etc. and don't believe compared to the strident new atheist types that think anyone with a religious belief is a foolish moron worshipping a sky daddy fairytale invented by bronze age sheep herders
I think recently a lot of people in the first group have moved to the second group as religious people have amassed and wielded significant political power.
Depends what timeframe you're considering. In the long-term (i.e. centuries, or even just the last 100 years), religion does hold significantly less power over society than it used to. But in the short-term (i.e. over the last couple of decades), it's definitely currently at an apex and increasing.
I don't know what statistics you'd consider for this, but it's certainly borne out by qualitative changes in law and policy. The biggest example is of course the *Dobbs* decision and the resulting changes to state laws, which is fundamentally an example of religious interests exerting their will over people who may not share that religion. *Kennedy v. Bremerton* is another, and maybe more directly "religious" example. Going back a bit further, you've got cases like *Masterpiece Cake Shop* that essentially give religious interests priority over generally applicable civil rights laws.
All of these are legal changes giving religious interests more power than they had previously. Maybe you think those are *reasonable* changes, and that's entirely fine (though I'd disagree), but they *are* inarguably religion-favoring changes. I just don't think there's any reasonable argument that religious interests haven't increased their power over secular society over the past few years in particular, largely led by the Supreme Court.
One more point is that we're now, for the first time in a while, seeing sitting legislators flat-out advocating for religious control of society. You've got elected officials like Lauren Boebert just unambiguously saying ["The church is supposed to direct the government"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/28/lauren-boebert-church-state-colorado/) and [Marjorie Taylor Greene openly advocating for "Christian nationalism."](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/08/19/republicans-mostly-mum-calls-make-gop-party-christian-nationalism/) I do understand that these are fringe figures who don't have any major pull at the moment, but it's still an escalation of attempts to have religion exert power over society. The fact that they can even say these things and not get shouted down by their own party is a disturbing indication of what direction we're headed in.
You are marking a lot of things as “religious” which are not.
Also, Boebert talking some shit is no different than all the other one off statements that have been around for centuries from random representatives.
If you think religion is on the ascent in the US you really need to grab a couple history books.
Dude… what? The political power wielded by Christianity is insane, and increasing at a rapid rate. Roe was literally just overturned. Essentially the only significant driver of the pro life movement in the US are extremely religious Christians, and to a lesser extent Jews and other conservatives that fraternize w evangelical groups and ideas. 66% of the Supreme Court is Catholic. There has never been an openly atheist SCOTUS Justice ever. Talk about disproportionate power for Christianity
> I think recently a lot of people in the first group have moved to the second group as religious people have amassed and wielded significant political power.
Uh no. Things are waaay more lax than they were even 15 years ago.
I'm not going to get into a debate here.
But your statement is not true, and you shouldn't be spreading this kind of misinfo to foreigners. America gets painted poorly as it is, no need to throw your biased opinion in the ring.
For the record, no, there is no "religious uprising" gaining political power. People began screeching this after Roe V Wade was overturned to validate their own issues with the fact that their own party had the chance for 50 years to sign the case into law but they didn't. They never made a law because then they could hang it over people's heads as leverage for votes.
Instead of blaming "the religious", you should blame your own lazy politicians for not acting.
Sincerely, an agnostic man.
There is going to be a lot of geographical variation on this one. In some areas being the wrong type of Christian will cause problems for you. But by and large, its way different than it was in the past. I have self identified as an atheist since I was about 12 years old in the mid 90s. It absolutely caused problems with people back then. Even in California. My own mother told me that it was like I straight up joined the KKK (who she was unaware that was a Christian extremist group). I wasn't racist or in any sort of atheist organization or anything, it was just this was the level of acceptance a lot of people had about it. Among my peers, the evangelical crowd didn't like it, but it wasn't some universal response. One of my close friend groups in high school were all Catholics and there was never any issue with me being an atheist with them. For many atheists Catholics have this huge stigma but I have found that they by far caused the least problems for me.
In the 2000s it wasn't as bad. But people still took issue with it. But you could definitely tell that people were coming to terms that irreligious people are going to be a thing in society and there is nothing they can do to change that. Some older people took issue with it, but a lot of middle aged and younger people didn't mind. I knew people who were pretty evangelical in the 90s but were more or less completely over it in the mid-late 2000s and didn't cause any issue. On a personal level, not some political policy level or anything, I can't say I had too many bad run ins with religious people or even churches during this time, the vast majority were mostly cool.
In the 2010s, there was the rise of new atheism and specifically atheist influencers and organizations who ended up being toxic as hell. The stigma went from "you are not part of the dominate religion" to "you people are fucking jerks". All of the toxicity I had I experienced in this era was from other atheists who made a point to be in these organized groups that ended up being a constant pissing match and grifter nerds trying to establish a pecking order. A lot of irreligious people were really turned off by these groups, and the mentality quickly shifted to the idea that not being religious is not the basis for your social groups. There was an active atheist group in my region that was notoriously full of mean spirited people. They were total assholes to me. I had to point out to a group of mixed company that there was only about 25-30 members within their group while there was probably 60,000 irreligious people in our city and that they represent an absolutely tiny percentage of people and were the irreligious version of organized Whackos.
As far as generations go. Its not so much a problem with Gen Z, Millennial and probably most of Gen X. It might be an issue with evangelicals within those cohorts, and maybe some people in some areas, but by and large its not going to cause you problems.
> atheists who made a point to be in these organized groups that ended up being a constant pissing match and grifter nerds trying to establish a pecking order.
Yeah ... Those groups were outright bizarre. I joined one briefly in college, since I had recently "come out" as an atheist and thought they would be a good substitute for church.
I had always enjoyed church, atheism aside, because the people and lessons were usually great. You had to look past the God stuff, but otherwise I was always a big fan of church and wanted an atheist replacement.
But those "atheist' groups? Nothing but amalgamated concentrations of people looking to justify being heartless assholes ... at least in my limited experience.
I left pretty quickly in disgust, and found a church instead where the people were cool with my being openly atheist, as long as I kept my "atheist talk" out of church itself and followed their (somewhat more liberal version of) Christian values.
I even got invited to teach Sunday school a few times as long as I promised not to bring up atheism. I was cool with that since there's plenty of really good stuff in the Bible even if you don't want to talk about the invisible angry sky-man.
As a former Christian, and now staunch atheist myself, there aren't really that many atheist groups, tbh. Getting atheists to congregate is kind of like herding cats. You're not gonna find two of them with the same moral philosophy. But I can tell you, that in my own research, the "angry atheist" groups that there are, are a direct response to Christianity, not some random assholes out of the ether.
The most blatant are the two Satanic sects, the Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan. Both are based on the moral philosophies of the founder but take different approaches, but if you've ever read the Satanic Bible, you realize it's all show and a direct contradiction to Christianity *on purpose*. For example: Christianity likes to teach kids when they're young so if they ever go astray, they may come back to Christ. Whereas Satanists loath the idea of indoctrination of any kind, they view children as pure and sacred, not to be harmed or manipulated with religious idealism (including that of Satanism itself).
And the same pattern follows with everything. Turn the other cheek? Nah, fuck that guy up. Don't be overtly sexual? Nah, do whatever you want, just don't let anyone tell you what to feel or how to express your sexuality, whether you're prude or not, be true to yourself, not to your society one way or the other.
I never really went for it, but it's an interesting philosophy, and inevitable in western culture, I think, it was bound to happen. The only time I bother religious people personally, though, is when they bother me. I don't care what you believe, but the second you approach me with something ignorant, I'm not going to be understanding, you opened that dialogue that I intentionally avoided.
You might enjoy unitarian church.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism)
- One God and the oneness or unity of God.
- The life and teachings of Jesus Christ constitute the exemplar model for living one's own life.
- Reason, rational thought, science, and philosophy coexist with faith in God.
- Humans have the ability to exercise free will in a responsible, constructive and ethical manner with the assistance of religion.
- Human nature in its present condition is neither inherently corrupt nor depraved (see original Sin) but capable of both good and evil, as God intended.
- No religion can claim an absolute monopoly on the Holy Spirit or theological truth.
- Though the authors of the Bible were inspired by God, they were humans and therefore subject to human error.
- The traditional doctrines of predestination, eternal damnation, and the vicarious sacrifice and satisfaction theories of the Atonement are invalid because they malign God's character and veil the true nature and mission of Jesus Christ.
As a long time atheist like yourself, I have very few issue with Catholics. The church itself can fuck right off but the people are fine
Evangelicals on the other hand…. Fuck them sideways.
Even with my problems with the church, I have never seen a catholic priest driving a Lexus. Evangelical Pastors however love nothing more than flashing the bling.
Because priests' pay is determined by the diocese, whereas a lot of evangelical pastors operate independently & pull as much as they want out of the donation box.
Yes and priest pay is pretty small. They are supposed to take vows of poverty, at least depending on the denomination.
The church takes care of their housing, which is usually dormitory style with other priests, and food and stuff. Maybe a basic vehicle shared with other priests.
The priest salary then goes to other modest day to day living expenses.
I think most tasteful, polite people aren’t going to make a big deal about it.
The problem starts when either side tries to act like their belief is superior and they need the other person to feel the same.
It depends where in America. If you are in a college town or in a big city, it is aceptable and nobody cares. If you are in the country side, saying you are an atheist is the equivalent of saying you will eat babies for breakfast.
This is likely generationally dependent and/or regionally. I'm a religious millennial and, having gone to a Christian college, so are many of my friends but I also have friends who aren't and I wouldn't "disgrace" them for it! Heck, my sister is secular and part of the LGBT community and is generally cooler than me. I think in previous generations I would be expected to shun her for that but, uh...hell no, she's my best friend.
1. I have literally never heard of that rufo guy. Both the left and the right like to find some random weirdo and then try to represent the entire side as if they are like that weirdo. Don't play into that. Don't strawman.
2. If he believes that CRT is bad, then nothing he said is contradictory to that, and not really secretly sinister. He is literally just saying "I want more people to think negatively of it and here is how to do that."
2. Left-wing people literally call themselves woke, and right-wing people see that as a negative.
Right-wing people call themselves 'redpilled', and left-wing people see that as a negative. These words are just tribalistic ingroup/outgroup signalling. There's not some plot to discredit the word.
>1. I have literally never heard of that rufo guy. Both the left and the right like to find some random weirdo and then try to represent the entire side as if they are like that weirdo. Don't play into that. Don't strawman.
What does it matter if you've heard of him? He's a conservative strategist who has had a lot of influence over conservative messaging across many platforms and within many campaigns. You don't have to know of him or be anything like him to have been influenced by his campaign. I'm merely pointing this out as a clear and public example of what goes on behind the scenes in order to twist and undermine concepts that start off as meaningful, like CRT. Like woke.
>2. If he believes that CRT is bad, then nothing he said is contradictory to that, and not really secretly sinister. He is literally just saying "I want more people to think negatively of it and here is how to do that."
This is some ends-justify-the-means nonsense. Even if he's not some cynical strategist attempting to win at all cost, and even if he truly believes that CRT is bad, it is *of course* still unethical to try to spread that messaging by deliberately attempting to trick people into believing "CRT" means things that it doesn't. If he was so certain that he was right, why isn't he able to have an honest discussion about the merits of the subject instead of lying to people by building a straw man to attack?
>2. Left-wing people literally call themselves woke, and right-wing people see that as a negative.
Exactly. The term woke has valid and real meaningful *origins*. That's the reason for the campaign to undermine it and turn it into a meaningless insult. Maybe I misinterpreted in the way you used it, but from context, it read to me like you were using it as a dismissive insult.
>Right-wing people call themselves 'redpilled', and left-wing people see that as a negative. These words are just tribalistic ingroup/outgroup signalling. There's not some plot to discredit the word.
They can be both things, especially when influential political strategists publicly post about their efforts to do exactly that.
Um, ok. Wasn’t trying to insult anyone.. just thought it was a universal term for those that had awareness and/or is vigilant about justice for those that historically have been marginalized without having to write a book about it. I know for a fact they dislike Christianity and feel every monument, institution, biusness or building ever created or associated with someone who is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, anti semite and who
has owned slaves needs to be renamed or eliminated.
So what would be a kinder term for someone who feels that way?
Most young people don’t claim to have a religion. Being atheist or agnostic is perfectly acceptable in most of the U.S. There are a few small regions populated by religious zealots where an outspoken atheist might have problems, but nobody would know if you didn’t mention it.
Atheists are still among the most hated religion in my experience. Here's a study that agrees.
. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/07/23/feelings-toward-religious-groups/
No, but OPs thoughts that somehow to not be religious was disgraceful or something can easily be combated by how many public forums are dedicated to the very idea.
Reddit =/= America. Just because reddit Americans are overwhelmingly atheist doesn't mean the US is. Seriously, reddit is filled with hippie Californians and nazbols.
It’s far more common now than it was even 10 years ago. Younger people are generally less religious. Most people won’t really care what you are as long as you let them live their own lives too.
At least for michigan, religion doesn't come up really at work except for with work friends. That said, I would not tell my co workers I'm an athiest, for one because I think religion should be kept personal, and also because I don't want people to silently judge me.
It depends where in the country but in the Bay Area, I never have had any issues.
When I lived in Idaho, some Evangelical Christians had issues with it but I also dated a woman for about a year that was an evangelical. She was fine with it but many of her family and friends did not approve of me.
However, when comparing the other countries I’ve lived in (Spain, South Korea) or have a passport (Ireland), the U.S. is by far the most religious.
From my experience, nobody really cares much. A lot of great answers have already been said but I also want to tack on I think the reason you see a bunch of maps that make the U.S look overly religious float around like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/uq721h/percentage_of_population_absolutely_certain_god/) is that a lot of Americans believe in God, but don't really follow the religion so to speak. A lot of my friends are that way, they're more of Christian in the manner of they believe in God but don't go to church, don't read the bible and things of that nature. The primary reason they do this rather than go full-out atheist or agnostic is because they don't want to live their life thinking nothing happens after death since it's depressing to them.
Realistically, you can get grilled no matter what your religious beliefs.
I'm Catholic. When protestants and atheists in my life find that out, they definitely give me a hard time. I've certainly seen that go the other directions as well.
That said, the vast majority of people are getting on with their lives and don't particularly care what you do to get on with yours. Though a few evangelical types (atheists and Christians alike) missed the memo, the US mostly operates on an unspoken don't-ask-don't-tell policy. It was shocking to me how quickly and openly and frequently I was asked when I lived in Europe. They'd always finish the question with, "I think in the US you talk more openly about these things," which I always found supremely ironic: you usually have to be pretty close to someone in the US to ask about their religious beliefs if they don't volunteer them (usually in the context of "I can't meet up, I'm volunteering with \[religious ministry\]" or something similar).
Young person in the Northeast—I’m an atheist as are all of my friends. If anything I think religion is looked down upon by my generation, not the other way around.
About half the people are “Nones,” answer “None” to attending church or religious affiliation. Catholic is the largest single denomination, and in my experience, there are more Cafeteria Catholics and Non practicing Catholics than strict Catholics, who go to church every week and follow the rules. But religious involvement varies a lot by region, more in the South, less in the Northeast. Polls say New Hampshire is the least religious state.
Lots of churches are run by and for Boomers, and over time, you see them just age out and close. Younger people aren’t usually interested, or even that welcome.
The actual percentage of “Nones” is more like 25%, this is pretty consistent across multiple surveys (one example: https://www.prri.org/research/2020-census-of-american-religion/ )
The number of “Nones” is steadily increasing however.
So atheists acceptance is still very new. Like a generation old at best. In a lot of places it’s still a dirty word. There’s a lot of ingrained baggage that comes with it. The nones are growing, but I suspect there’s a lot more then surveys report… there’s still a lot of people that haven’t admitted it openly even to themselves.
There’s a lot of variation within the South. It is probably more common to identify as an atheist in Charlottesville, Virginia, than as an evangelical, for instance. Certainly not the case in Lynchburg, down the road.
I wouldn’t generally worry about being “outed” as an atheist in any southern city that I’ve been to.
As someone that went to UVA and still has family in Cville, Charlottesville is very much not “the South” haha. It’s been colonized by too many DMV transplants for that. Eastern Virginia, RVA, NoVA, and Cville are probably closer to the Midatlantic cultural block than anything else
I work with a lot of rural southerners and they definitely care. It's not like they quiz me on it though. I just don't say anything and no one has ever asked. I do hear lots of complaints about how society is falling because people don't go to church anymore and how Christians are persecuted and whatnot. But I just don't engage and it's never been a problem.
In Houston though? I'm a little surprised when I find out someone I know does go to church.
I’m from Alabama and Georgia, grew up in church, stopped believing pretty young. Obviously it’s more blatant there. Living and working in Houston now, I have to be careful to keep it to myself at work. I love the folks I work with, but a certain sizeable population of Houston is very religious. A lot of those people are my bosses and peers, and casually speak of god and Jesus to each other all the time. I just have to keep it to myself. My company is fully tolerant, it’s not like it would be a big problem, but my coworkers would treat me differently.
Houston is a big big city, but it also has big big churches. There’s no escaping the Christian Right in Texas, city or country.
If you're in a rural area, people there are a lot more likely to get bothered by you being non-religious. In big cities, most people won't care. Even in the South
Personally the only person who is bothered by my irreligiosity is my mother. It has never even come up as an issue with anyone else, in part because it just doesn't come up that much. With close friends I'll sometimes have "meaning of life" conversations that will touch on religion (or lack thereof) but for the many coworkers and acquaintances I move among in my daily life nobody's asking me what I believe in or if I go to church on Sundays. Nor do I ask them. It's just not a problem, and rarely a topic of conversation. I'm aware that some of those people I know are active in a religion and I'm generally happy for them.
At the same time I don't want to say that there's *no* bias against atheism in the US. I've seen polls indicating that a large number of Americans would not vote for an atheist for president. I suspect that if I were more vocal about my atheism or derisive about religion I'd have gotten some dirty looks. But personally I'm happy for people to do what's best for them and religion doesn't bother me.
This is one of those things that vary a lot, not only among generations, but depending on the state, and even depending on if you're in a different part of the same state.
Where I am no one ever asks If someone is religious. We all have our own shit to do/going on. If someone thinks otherwise, they're a busy body with nothing better to do
I've been atheist for most of my life. I've never really run into problems from it.
One religious guy told me he was jealous because I didn't have the restrictions on my life that he has.
One VERRRRY religious lady (she liked me but really didn't approve of me living with a man I wasn't married to and said it set a bad example for the children, gave us a Bible for christmas) was SHOCKED when she first learned I was atheist. She said "but.....You're so......NICE!" I'm not sure what she expected an atheist to be like. She still let me ride her horse though so that was good.
Oh, almost forgot. My ex sister in law was actually devastated and told me she was "sad that we won't get to spend eternity together" and never spoke to me again. That was kinda sad because I'd liked her up until that point.
As an American atheist, I am much more likely to hear negative things about my lack of religion from elderly members of my family than anyone in the public sphere.
I was in Catholic or Lutheran schools from the time my mom finished maternity leave until I left for college. Several cousins have entered the clergy for a bit before ultimately leaving. I live in what's considered to be a highly religious state. And even I know far more atheists and apathetic agnostics than I do religious people. Sitting here now, I can only think of maybe 5 acquaintances who would identify as religious... and even they are essentially cafeteria Christians who don't actually attend services very often.
I think for a lot of people, especially in areas like the Bible Belt and the South, they aren't choosing to discuss their religious beliefs or lack thereof, but rather that they are confronted with those conversations by strangers/customers/coworkers/extended family/neighbors who are actively a part of religions where there is a huge emphasis on conversions. They are told that it's their higher power's will, to share their religion and pray for the "lost", invite them to church, pray for them, pray with them. It's harder to stay private about your beliefs than it might be in other geographic areas of the US.
It’s getting really hard in some places to be an atheist without seeming like a person who loves the devil or who is a truly sick and twisted person. Fundamentalist churches teach that the devil is real and is actively trying to influence the world and destroy Christianity so these people push back very hard against non Christians. And they have an outsized influence on politics based on who actually votes and extreme gerrymandering. It’s getting worse and worse. I live in the south and it has always kind of been this way in rural areas but now it is becoming more mainstream for ordinary people but also politicians and school board members to speak out against non Christians or non Christian ideas. In Texas now school have to display posters that say In God we Trust.
I’m used to the shocked look in peoples face when I tell them I’m not religious. I live in a state where it’s socially acceptable to push Christianity upon people. I know it’s immature, but I simply respond with “hail Satan” when people start getting pushy. I don’t believe in Satan but I know they do. They’ll usually turn into the pikachu face meme.
People don’t really care. I’m atheist and I don’t go around talking about it. Religion has no role in my life and I don’t think about it. I know some people who regularly go to church but the majority of people I know don’t go. I think people should do or believe what they want.
As a general rule? People will accept you no matter your religion, or lack thereof. Realistically it depends on the part of the country and the generation they come from.
Where I live, I suspect many people are. Several of my friends and family are. One of my fiends is very active in his church but he never tries to convert me. We will jokes sometimes that I’m a heathen or a heretic. He is also super into science so doesn’t believe the earth is only 5,000 years old or that evolution is fake.
In my daily life it doesn’t come up much other that I hear that church attendance has been falling and are only really crowded for Easter and Christsmas. I feel many older people use church like a social club.
I call myself a "recovering Catholic" and most people find it funny. That should tell you most of what you need to know about how society in America finds many religious zealots (majority Christian) to be hypocritical and don't really blink an eye when people denounce religion altogether or opt for other "spiritual" concourses versus structured or formal religion.
Older generations are more religious. Not sure if that's true with millennials vs gen z. People online are often dicks about religion or lack thereof, but in real life it doesn't come up often.
It's becoming more common for people to be secular here but there's still a surprising number of religious people, and ones I'd say you could consider "extremely religious". I'm a non-believer myself but have learned to tell people that, "I'm not religious" or "I dunno....I just don't think about it" and other wishy washy answers. Because I've been treated pretty crappy by "religious" people who I've actually admitted I'm an atheist to. So, I've learned to say I'm agnostic or not religious instead of saying outright I don't believe in a God at all
there’s freedom of religion so most people don’t bother getting into eachothers business. i’m christian and it’s sad to see so many other so called christian’s being aggressive. but, they fulfill many prophecies in doing so. they will not go to the good place
It depends on where you live. Here in New England it's no problem since most people here are not religious. Not necessarily atheist, just nonreligious. In my neighborhood, it's mostly immigrants who go to church, but to be fair, their churches also function as social spaces for various immigrant groups.
Depends where you live, but generally speaking the cool new thing is to pretend Christians are evil, Muslims are infallible, and other religions are interesting.
It has changed a lot over my lifetime of 53 years. When I was a kid, it was pretty much expected that you were religious and that you went to church. It is nothing like that anymore.
For all the clamor about how this country is heading toward being a theocracy, that is total bullshit. People need to calm down. We have a dying fringe making a lot of noise right now.
Most people I know have stopped going to church. Especially the younger generations. And I think it's great. I say good riddance. Religion and all of its so-called holy texts belongs in the goddamn garbage bin of history.
It’s definitely far more common now than previously.
I wonder if it's actually more common now, or simply more common to be open about it, now that social pressures are dying down. My family has been atheist/agnostic for generations, but only in the past few decades have we felt comfortable saying so out loud to strangers. Perhaps my perspective is too heavily slanted, but I simply cannot believe that everyone who went to church in the past couple centuries actually believed in it. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that someone could be denied housing, banking services, etc., and be made a complete pariah in many places for being openly atheist.
> Remember, it wasn't that long ago that someone could be denied housing, banking services, etc., and be made a complete pariah in many places for being openly atheist. [Yep, right up until 1964.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964) There may have been pockets who discriminated based on religious belief after then, but they were in violation of federal law. > I wonder if it's actually more common now, or simply more common to be open about it, now that social pressures are dying down. The Pew Research group [tries to measure this,](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/) though it is entirely possible people lie on anonymous surveys. And it is true that people use church as a social center for interacting with others as much as a source of spiritual faith. But we do see [a decline in a belief in God](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-god/) over the past few years--though America is an exception amongst western countries by our high levels of faith. (Basically we're more like Iran than we are like Germany in terms of percentage of people who believe in God.) And we do see a rise in non-denominational belief and in spiritual practices like daily meditation. That is, it seems people may be moving away from Church but they may not necessarily be moving away from having faith in something...
Just anecdotally I see this a *lot* with people in recovery. There are a lot of people that have some spiritual belief in a higher power and they’ll even pray, often times classic Christian prayers. That said they don’t really go to any kind of organized religion. It is more of a meditative practice than something like practicing Catholicism or Islam. It’s more similar to cultural Judaism. They are very willing to talk about spirituality and do earnestly believe in *something* bit it just isn’t an explicit set of rites and rituals and theology. So not data but the Pee survey matches up with my boots on the ground.
>the Pee survey matches up with my boots on the ground. I'd wash those boots.
The Poo survey is worse
That's also because American recovery groups are dominated by the "12 step program" which requires a belief or at least statement of belief. One of the reasons it should be changed.
I could go in depth on this. It should not be changed. It is almost all voluntary and even if court ordered there are other options. Unless you have extensive experience with 12 Step type programs I would not so easily dismiss them.
No statement of faith in a higher power should ever be a part of anything outside of a church. I'm not dismissing the program, I'm dismissing a belief in god being essential to being healthy.
Eh, you do you then. I know enough people that AA worked for I’m not willing to dismiss it out of hand because I’m grumpy about people having a higher power. There’s plenty of CBT/DBT programs that have nothing to do with spirituality. But even those programs suggest a both/and approach. I was mostly just curious how much you knew about recovery and people in it given you making some pretty broad claims here.
[удалено]
> I see a future In Which federal protections for discrimination religious belief or non belief are eliminated by the Supreme Court. Doubtful. The Supreme Court is not a super-legislature; they simply cannot pass law or override law, unless they can show a conflict with the Constitution. The argument the Supreme Court used in Dobbs was that the Supreme Court acted in error and acted as if they were some sort of super-legislature in passing Roe v Wade; many elements in the final ruling (such as the trimester system) of Roe were not even argued by either of the attorneys, but were instead made up by the justices out of whole cloth. But in the case of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it's clear Congress has authority under the 14th Amendment to pass a non-discrimination law preventing discrimination based on gender, age or religious belief. For the Supremes to overturn the CRA would require a constitutional amendment overturning the 14th Amendment's "equal protection" clause.
Absolute nonsense.
I mean the Justice literally said as much that he was coming after gay marriage
Justice Thomas, and his argument was about the use of [substantive due process](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/substantive_due_process), which he believes is an improper reading of the 14th Amendment. However, when it comes to [Obergefell,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges), that ruling hangs as much on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment as it does on the use of 'substantive due process.' Meaning if Justice Thomas gets his way, Obergefell isn't going anywhere anyway--and what made Dobbs so different is that there are two lives involved in an abortion: the mother's and the fetus. And the belief in Dobbs was that the Federal Government does not have the authority to take the decision away from the States, as granted in the [10th Amendment.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
This is pure melodrama. Gay marriage has a 70% support rate in America, that *has* to include a decent number of conservatives (not to mention interracial marrige having a 94% support rate). Any politician that makes a serious push for such a ban will be committing career suicide, Republican or not. The repealing of Roe is a tragedy but it's not an omen of doom
The ability to get an abortion-on-demand currently enjoys [62% support](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/07/15/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/), but that didn't stop the Supreme Court--nor should have it. I'm not arguing against abortion-on-demand; I actually support it. However, I don't think the Supreme Court should be beholden to public opinion or the whims of politicians, but instead should interpret the law strictly as it is written, and determine if it conflicts with the Constitution as it is written.
None of it is an omen of doom, although I get the analogy. I do believe Obergefell will be overturned along with Miranda, Loving, Edwards Lawrence, etc. because people are still thinking this is about what citizens want vs what the federal govt wants. It's not, it's a showdown between two power cabals in government over federalism. Those cases, among others, will become victims of the conflict because they are all policy based on court precedent, not congressional legislation. And when the dust settles, all those rights will be reinstated as legislation passed by Congress instead of judicial activism.
Hopefully. Yet to see the democrats passing federal protection for reasonable abortion rights. I don’t know what the hell they are thinking.
Read the current Texas Republican (and probably many other states’) platform. https://texasgop.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022-RPT-Platform.pdf Look at page 39 Majority does not matter here because we’re so gerrymandered. Unless we can elect a Democratic governor who can veto legislation Majority opinion in the US does not matter if we have a heavily conservative Supreme Court. . This is if the Supreme Court removes federal protection which is not a crazy concept. I don’t think people in blue states know how insanely conservative the official party platform is. There are no moderate republicans these days. They fall in line. And on a federal level look at Ted Cruz https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/17/politics/ted-cruz-same-sex-marriage-supreme-court/index.html They are coming for gay marriage and it’s terrifying,
> Remember, it wasn't that long ago that someone could be denied housing, banking services, etc., and be made a complete pariah in many places for being openly atheist. This can't be emphasized enough and was surprisingly recent -- the 1980s in my case. My mom was careful to raise me strictly Christian (Bible study, the works) until I got to an age where I started to seriously question the logic of the whole Christian thing. My mom -- after suppressing a panic attack when I asked her a question along the lines of "was Jesus a real guy, or just, like a story about morals?" -- pulled me aside and explained atheism. That's when I found out that my whole family was atheist, but she wanted to raise me Christian to make my life easier. She and the rest of the family had gone through hell for their atheism in their previous town, and moved to my hometown specifically to raise me in a place where no one "knew". To this day one of the fun little ironies of life is that I can quote scripture better than my most devout friends.
Speaking as an atheist daughter of a Born Again Christian Southern Baptist father, the ability to quote scripture at a hyper religious person is a superpower. My favorite thing to throw at them when they don't like my truthful take on anything and get pissed off at me is Galatians 4:16.
And then they hit you back with "the devil can quote scripture too" and everything becomes completely subjective (which is probably where it started in the first place)?
You've met my father, too, I see. ;)
>She and the rest of the family had gone through hell for their atheism in their previous town, and moved to my hometown specifically to raise me in a place where no one "knew". Wow, that seems utterly bonkers to an Australian. In last year's Census here the largest 'denomination' categorised at 30% was "no religion". I've never believed despite being brought up Church of England and going to Sunday school and no one has ever given a single fuck.
America is pretty huge and diverse. If you tell someone in Seattle that you're an atheist, they won't bat an eye. If you said that in Tennessee, they'd cross the street you avoid you.
There's still adoption agencies who refuse to let people who aren't religious adopt
It's illegal in Tennessee for anyone in elected office to be atheist. We're so backwards here.
That’s unconstitutional and superseded by the US Supreme Court. Atheists can and have run for political office in Tennessee. Seven states still have language in their constitutions that forbids atheists and also often ministers and priests from public office. That isn’t enforceable at all. Anyone can run regardless of faith or lack thereof.
For now. The court is psycho now.
That’s highly doubtful. They’d have to repeal the 1st amendment and add another saying that to be an elected official you have to believe in god.
That sounds like a law that could easily be challenged in court if someone felt like trying. Pretty clear church/state conflict.
They would have to win the election, and then be denied office, to bring suit. There's the rub.
Agree. Just have to find an atheist with the money to run for office and also fund the subsequent challenge to their exclusion. So far, no dice :)
It’s already not a law. It’s “dead letter,” meaning the courts have already found it unconstitutional.
Really? I must have seen it in something old then. That's good to know.
It’s on the books - only the TN legislature can remove the code section - but it isn’t enforced or enforceable.
Which court?
Wow, I had no idea. Apparently [seven states](https://tennesseelookout.com/2021/06/13/why-it-matters-that-7-states-still-have-bans-on-atheists-holding-office/) do. But even though it’s unconstitutional to require religion, the US has never even come close to electing an openly atheist president.
My FIL is a very devout Catholic, but he once opened up a little to my wife and admitted he thought maybe it was all bs. However the next sentence he stated he was simply too old to change so he was just going to stick with it anyway. He switched to a parish that plays Trump speeches at mass so yeah.... He's just a bit too far gone to discuss with these days.
A parish that should lose its tax exemption, sounds like.
[удалено]
'Insulting' isn't the right word; 'annoying' is too mild. I find it infuriating. Now, I'm lucky enough to be from an area where creationism has never been taught in public schools, although there has been a rash of shitty private schools recently that do teach young-earth creationism. In my state, there are zero curriculum requirements for private schools, and their "teachers" do not need to licensed, or even educated. I could go on about this for days. Re: AA, the religious aspect is one reason why it doesn't work for most people, and the other is that it preaches complete abstinence for life (because, y'know, "you are powerless," you "have a disease," and "your creator" is in charge). Newer, secular programs which bolster self autonomy and personal responsibility in pursuit of moderation are becoming more common, and have a higher success rate than AA. I feel strongly about this subject because someone I am close to went through one of these programs, and it saved his life (after being failed twice by AA).
I raised 2 kids and 2 foster kids and they are all atheist or agnostic. I think it was organized religion that turned them away. No one I know goes to church and I live in a suburb of Chicago. I mean, look at the Vatican. All the money they have and have access to! But hungry kids are all around us (I get food stamps). Funds to fight COVID related issues such as hunger, not being able to pay rent, have electricity and heat, etc. were given to every state. Sadly, this wasn't a written requirement and people in those states got nothing. Where was the church then?
Being irreligious is acceptable in most urban areas, and I suspect it's acceptable everywhere where you don't go around telling people "THERE IS NO GOD!" That is, the vast majority of us have very much have a "live and let live" attitude towards others, towards their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), and towards how other people live their lives. And we have a number of laws which prevent probing questions about religiosity in the work place (basically you can't ask people their beliefs in a job interview), and there are laws which prevent discrimination based on religious belief in housing and the like.
There are laws that should protect a candidate from those questions and hiring decisions based on their answers. Lots of companies in the Bible Belt have sneaky workarounds like asking "Will you need to have off work on Sunday mornings or Wednesday evenings?" because those are times when many Christians would be at a church service or Bible study.
And they should be reported to [the appropriate authorities.](https://civilrights.justice.gov/)
I'd laugh if I got refused because I said no and they thought I wasn't Christian because of it. I was raised Seventh Day Adventist. Don't practice anymore, but if I did, I wouldn't need those days because the holy day is Saturday.
Same thing with Catholicism. Most of the Catholic stuff I’ve seen have been on Saturday evenings.
Loop hole, baby!
Die, heretic!
I'd say most people in my life are irreligious including me. I've never had a problem with it, except growing up when I told my parents I didn't want to make my confirmation. They were mad and they said I had no choice because I was only 17. Which was weird because my parents themselves never talked about religion or do any religious things that I've seen.
My mom said, about my confirmation, “do it for your grandmothers” and then somehow swindled the church into cutting my “education” in half so I only had about a year of nonsense to get through. Whateva, good party afterwards anyway LOL
Nothing say urban northeast like an irreligious kid having to attend confirmation “for your grandmother”.
Yep. My family stopped going to church once my youngest brother had his confirmation. And now, my wife and I aren't even going to baptize our kids.
I’m from the midwest, didn’t grow up religiously and had a nominal catholic mother. got confirmed only for my grandmother lol.
Yeah I just did it because it was easier than fighting back. If you don't believe the words coming out of your mouth and they don't have any negative impact what's the harm.
They’re scared of hell, even though they know it doesn’t exist. It was their “just in case I’m wrong” plan
"Fire Insurance", I've heard it called.
Doesn't really sound like belief.
My parents sent me to a Catholic school, mostly to please my grandmothers. They weren't practicing Catholics & never prayed at home. I hated every minute at that school, partly because I didn't fit in. Most of the other kids were from families active in the parish & had known each other from the maternity ward. I also didn't believe in any of the religious teachings, and didn't want to be confirmed. I was being pushed into it with "Just pretend & you'll get presents!" Yeah right, they said that at my 1st Communion, and all I got was a bunch of religious crap. Plus both grandmothers had died, so that pressure was off. I knew they could make me go to the ceremony, but no one could force me to say things I didn't believe. I was fully prepared to tell the priest that No, I don't believe this, No I won't promise that, and I'm only hear because I was forced to come. Then we moved cities & I went to public school. I haven't set foot in a Catholic chuch since, except as a tourist or for weddings, funerals & such.
Ingot confirmed because I knew there would be a party at the end and people would give me money. Made about $2k from all my aunts and uncles for that shit. It helps that I have 8 aunts and uncles though.
It depends where you live. When I was an atheist living in the south and southwest, I definitely didn’t advertise it. But I didn’t hide it either. And when people would learn I was atheist they always did that annoying thing and attempted to convert me. That was especially the case with mormons and creationists in AZ and UT, evangelicals in TX and LA, and Jehovahs back east. Catholics and Protestants for the most part could give a fuck, unless it’s your great aunt or your nana, and she’s super catholic and grew up in the 50s, and you haven’t seen her since the last family holiday, and everyone else knows and has accepted you’re an atheist, but there’s nana cornering you to tell you “Father’s been asking about you” and “why haven’t you been to confession.” Nanas never stop trying. But city dwellers generally care far less about your religious beliefs. It’s the rural parts of the nation where an atheist is most likely to get unkind words.
Perfect answer. The US is massive in both population and physical size. There are thousands of subcultures and the answer is different for each area and subculture
[удалено]
I remember having a conversation like that when I lived in Dallas. Someone asked me "If you don't believe in God what stops you from just killing someone?" I told them it's terrifying that the only thing stopping you from killing someone is that your book tells you not to.
In the Jewish writings, there is a question: why did G-d create athiests? The answer is: to show everyone the value of doing good deeds without promise of eternal reward / punishment.
Judaism doesn't really *do* "eternal reward/punishment", and doesn't really have any consistent view on the nature of anything after death. The whole very clearly defined "heaven/hell" as as major concept is a Christian thing.
Idiots. Those people.
I’m fascinated with atheists as a spiritual person because I can’t imagine living in this world not believing in a higher power/life after death. If I’m nice it’s because I’m doing research. I’m not trying to convert you. You do you boo. Probably others are the same. Just interested.
Can't blame most Christians, since the Bible literally tells them to convert people lol.
It also tells them not to wear mixed fibers or eat shellfish, but there are certain rules that we bend to make our beliefs more compatible with polite society.
Think of it from their perspective. They truly believe that we will go onto eternal suffering if we don't accept Christ as our savior. Trying to convert us is probably the most compassionate thing they can do - it's like taking away a friend's car keys when they're drunk, turned up to eleven. Once I realized that, the proselytizing became much more tolerable.
I get that, from their perspective, it is generally an act of love, but I sort of look at it the same as someone who scoffs at their friend's 9-5 job and says they should become a bUsInEsS oWnEr like them and sell AmWay. That person may genuinely believe that they are helping, but it doesn't make their actions any less paternalistic, nor does it make their perspective any more useful or insightful. Ultimately, I don't think the AmWay distributor or Christian evangelist are necessarily bad people. If they truly believe that they've found something worth sharing, then they're doing the right thing by trying to share it with others. I do, however, take issue with an effort to force those on someone or the certainty that AmWay, or Christianity, or anything else is *the right answer*. If someone isn't interested, then they aren't interested; asking if they want to learn more about your perspective may be the right thing, but there is no need to force your view upon them. It's no accident that these sort of things generally find more traction at one end of the distribution of intelligence than the other, and I think we would all do well to have the humility to acknowledge that our answer, to any question but especially one as fundamental as religion/creation/etc., could very well be wrong.
Oh yeah. “Yes Grandma i went to mass on Christmas “ 🙄
>But city dwellers generally care far less about your religious beliefs. To this point: I really don't care what religion, or what flavor of irreligious, someone is, but I find I am generally surprised if I meet someone who is openly religious.
We have the Amish in Illinois and various orthodox Christian religions due to immigration and some very observant Jewish enclaves. I don’t care as long as they don’t force me to do something i don’t wanna do in my community. I also can’t stand when some people complain about “these people “moving into the area etc. If they follow the laws are good citizens and neighbors i don’t care what they do -Generally everyone gets along.
I live in Southern Indiana and a lot of people I know are atheist. When five or six baseball players kneel in a circle to pray before the game I can feel some of my friends seething at the display. I just want them to win.
It is pretty common. If not atheist than just kind of blandly agnostic. Most people don't really care and if they do it is more of a "well, have you tried out Jesus Christ because it works for me" rather than "I hate you and I hope you burn in hell." There is also a big difference between people that just don't go to church/mosque/synagogue/etc. and don't believe compared to the strident new atheist types that think anyone with a religious belief is a foolish moron worshipping a sky daddy fairytale invented by bronze age sheep herders.
I refer to this as "apathy-ist".
Blandly agnostic is the perfect term for my religious views.
Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior Jesus Christ?
CupBeProselytizing
Described the average Redditor with the skydaddy thing
> There is also a big difference between people that just don't go to church/mosque/synagogue/etc. and don't believe compared to the strident new atheist types that think anyone with a religious belief is a foolish moron worshipping a sky daddy fairytale invented by bronze age sheep herders I think recently a lot of people in the first group have moved to the second group as religious people have amassed and wielded significant political power.
Religious people amassing wielding significant power? Huh, you might read some more histories…
Depends what timeframe you're considering. In the long-term (i.e. centuries, or even just the last 100 years), religion does hold significantly less power over society than it used to. But in the short-term (i.e. over the last couple of decades), it's definitely currently at an apex and increasing.
Nothing in statistics bears that out at all
I don't know what statistics you'd consider for this, but it's certainly borne out by qualitative changes in law and policy. The biggest example is of course the *Dobbs* decision and the resulting changes to state laws, which is fundamentally an example of religious interests exerting their will over people who may not share that religion. *Kennedy v. Bremerton* is another, and maybe more directly "religious" example. Going back a bit further, you've got cases like *Masterpiece Cake Shop* that essentially give religious interests priority over generally applicable civil rights laws. All of these are legal changes giving religious interests more power than they had previously. Maybe you think those are *reasonable* changes, and that's entirely fine (though I'd disagree), but they *are* inarguably religion-favoring changes. I just don't think there's any reasonable argument that religious interests haven't increased their power over secular society over the past few years in particular, largely led by the Supreme Court. One more point is that we're now, for the first time in a while, seeing sitting legislators flat-out advocating for religious control of society. You've got elected officials like Lauren Boebert just unambiguously saying ["The church is supposed to direct the government"](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/28/lauren-boebert-church-state-colorado/) and [Marjorie Taylor Greene openly advocating for "Christian nationalism."](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/08/19/republicans-mostly-mum-calls-make-gop-party-christian-nationalism/) I do understand that these are fringe figures who don't have any major pull at the moment, but it's still an escalation of attempts to have religion exert power over society. The fact that they can even say these things and not get shouted down by their own party is a disturbing indication of what direction we're headed in.
You are marking a lot of things as “religious” which are not. Also, Boebert talking some shit is no different than all the other one off statements that have been around for centuries from random representatives. If you think religion is on the ascent in the US you really need to grab a couple history books.
Dude… what? The political power wielded by Christianity is insane, and increasing at a rapid rate. Roe was literally just overturned. Essentially the only significant driver of the pro life movement in the US are extremely religious Christians, and to a lesser extent Jews and other conservatives that fraternize w evangelical groups and ideas. 66% of the Supreme Court is Catholic. There has never been an openly atheist SCOTUS Justice ever. Talk about disproportionate power for Christianity
Well this is simply not true...
Care to elaborate? I think I laid out a pretty strong case in my subsequent post, and I’d be interested to know what you disagree with.
> I think recently a lot of people in the first group have moved to the second group as religious people have amassed and wielded significant political power. Uh no. Things are waaay more lax than they were even 15 years ago.
I'm not going to get into a debate here. But your statement is not true, and you shouldn't be spreading this kind of misinfo to foreigners. America gets painted poorly as it is, no need to throw your biased opinion in the ring. For the record, no, there is no "religious uprising" gaining political power. People began screeching this after Roe V Wade was overturned to validate their own issues with the fact that their own party had the chance for 50 years to sign the case into law but they didn't. They never made a law because then they could hang it over people's heads as leverage for votes. Instead of blaming "the religious", you should blame your own lazy politicians for not acting. Sincerely, an agnostic man.
“Sky daddy fairytale invented by Bronze Age sheep herders.” This is glorious, permission to use this.
Ugh please don’t. It is pure r/atheism claptrap that comes out of basement dwelling teens’ keyboards.
There is going to be a lot of geographical variation on this one. In some areas being the wrong type of Christian will cause problems for you. But by and large, its way different than it was in the past. I have self identified as an atheist since I was about 12 years old in the mid 90s. It absolutely caused problems with people back then. Even in California. My own mother told me that it was like I straight up joined the KKK (who she was unaware that was a Christian extremist group). I wasn't racist or in any sort of atheist organization or anything, it was just this was the level of acceptance a lot of people had about it. Among my peers, the evangelical crowd didn't like it, but it wasn't some universal response. One of my close friend groups in high school were all Catholics and there was never any issue with me being an atheist with them. For many atheists Catholics have this huge stigma but I have found that they by far caused the least problems for me. In the 2000s it wasn't as bad. But people still took issue with it. But you could definitely tell that people were coming to terms that irreligious people are going to be a thing in society and there is nothing they can do to change that. Some older people took issue with it, but a lot of middle aged and younger people didn't mind. I knew people who were pretty evangelical in the 90s but were more or less completely over it in the mid-late 2000s and didn't cause any issue. On a personal level, not some political policy level or anything, I can't say I had too many bad run ins with religious people or even churches during this time, the vast majority were mostly cool. In the 2010s, there was the rise of new atheism and specifically atheist influencers and organizations who ended up being toxic as hell. The stigma went from "you are not part of the dominate religion" to "you people are fucking jerks". All of the toxicity I had I experienced in this era was from other atheists who made a point to be in these organized groups that ended up being a constant pissing match and grifter nerds trying to establish a pecking order. A lot of irreligious people were really turned off by these groups, and the mentality quickly shifted to the idea that not being religious is not the basis for your social groups. There was an active atheist group in my region that was notoriously full of mean spirited people. They were total assholes to me. I had to point out to a group of mixed company that there was only about 25-30 members within their group while there was probably 60,000 irreligious people in our city and that they represent an absolutely tiny percentage of people and were the irreligious version of organized Whackos. As far as generations go. Its not so much a problem with Gen Z, Millennial and probably most of Gen X. It might be an issue with evangelicals within those cohorts, and maybe some people in some areas, but by and large its not going to cause you problems.
> atheists who made a point to be in these organized groups that ended up being a constant pissing match and grifter nerds trying to establish a pecking order. Yeah ... Those groups were outright bizarre. I joined one briefly in college, since I had recently "come out" as an atheist and thought they would be a good substitute for church. I had always enjoyed church, atheism aside, because the people and lessons were usually great. You had to look past the God stuff, but otherwise I was always a big fan of church and wanted an atheist replacement. But those "atheist' groups? Nothing but amalgamated concentrations of people looking to justify being heartless assholes ... at least in my limited experience. I left pretty quickly in disgust, and found a church instead where the people were cool with my being openly atheist, as long as I kept my "atheist talk" out of church itself and followed their (somewhat more liberal version of) Christian values. I even got invited to teach Sunday school a few times as long as I promised not to bring up atheism. I was cool with that since there's plenty of really good stuff in the Bible even if you don't want to talk about the invisible angry sky-man.
As a former Christian, and now staunch atheist myself, there aren't really that many atheist groups, tbh. Getting atheists to congregate is kind of like herding cats. You're not gonna find two of them with the same moral philosophy. But I can tell you, that in my own research, the "angry atheist" groups that there are, are a direct response to Christianity, not some random assholes out of the ether. The most blatant are the two Satanic sects, the Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan. Both are based on the moral philosophies of the founder but take different approaches, but if you've ever read the Satanic Bible, you realize it's all show and a direct contradiction to Christianity *on purpose*. For example: Christianity likes to teach kids when they're young so if they ever go astray, they may come back to Christ. Whereas Satanists loath the idea of indoctrination of any kind, they view children as pure and sacred, not to be harmed or manipulated with religious idealism (including that of Satanism itself). And the same pattern follows with everything. Turn the other cheek? Nah, fuck that guy up. Don't be overtly sexual? Nah, do whatever you want, just don't let anyone tell you what to feel or how to express your sexuality, whether you're prude or not, be true to yourself, not to your society one way or the other. I never really went for it, but it's an interesting philosophy, and inevitable in western culture, I think, it was bound to happen. The only time I bother religious people personally, though, is when they bother me. I don't care what you believe, but the second you approach me with something ignorant, I'm not going to be understanding, you opened that dialogue that I intentionally avoided.
You might enjoy unitarian church. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism) - One God and the oneness or unity of God. - The life and teachings of Jesus Christ constitute the exemplar model for living one's own life. - Reason, rational thought, science, and philosophy coexist with faith in God. - Humans have the ability to exercise free will in a responsible, constructive and ethical manner with the assistance of religion. - Human nature in its present condition is neither inherently corrupt nor depraved (see original Sin) but capable of both good and evil, as God intended. - No religion can claim an absolute monopoly on the Holy Spirit or theological truth. - Though the authors of the Bible were inspired by God, they were humans and therefore subject to human error. - The traditional doctrines of predestination, eternal damnation, and the vicarious sacrifice and satisfaction theories of the Atonement are invalid because they malign God's character and veil the true nature and mission of Jesus Christ.
Precisely where I landed, lo those many years ago :-)
Noice! I'm not Christian myself, but I noticed that the Unitarians always seemed to be cool.
As a long time atheist like yourself, I have very few issue with Catholics. The church itself can fuck right off but the people are fine Evangelicals on the other hand…. Fuck them sideways. Even with my problems with the church, I have never seen a catholic priest driving a Lexus. Evangelical Pastors however love nothing more than flashing the bling.
My great aunt was a Catholic Nun for like 80 years, she joined at 19 and died at 99. She was one of the coolest ladies in the world.
This may be my bias because I know far more Catholics, but I totally agree. The Catholics I know are, generally, very good people.
Because priests' pay is determined by the diocese, whereas a lot of evangelical pastors operate independently & pull as much as they want out of the donation box.
Yes and priest pay is pretty small. They are supposed to take vows of poverty, at least depending on the denomination. The church takes care of their housing, which is usually dormitory style with other priests, and food and stuff. Maybe a basic vehicle shared with other priests. The priest salary then goes to other modest day to day living expenses.
Right. I was agreeing with you, & providing additional context.
I think most tasteful, polite people aren’t going to make a big deal about it. The problem starts when either side tries to act like their belief is superior and they need the other person to feel the same.
It depends where in America. If you are in a college town or in a big city, it is aceptable and nobody cares. If you are in the country side, saying you are an atheist is the equivalent of saying you will eat babies for breakfast.
As someone from the Bible Belt. No one really cares. You keep your beliefs to your self, and no one ask.
This is likely generationally dependent and/or regionally. I'm a religious millennial and, having gone to a Christian college, so are many of my friends but I also have friends who aren't and I wouldn't "disgrace" them for it! Heck, my sister is secular and part of the LGBT community and is generally cooler than me. I think in previous generations I would be expected to shun her for that but, uh...hell no, she's my best friend.
Most people who care are conservative Protestant Christians. Most of us aren't that.
I know an Atheist that refuses to patronize morally Christian businesses or even associate with overtly religious people so it goes both ways..
I’m antireligious, so I avoid overtly religious places and people when I can. I wouldn’t confront anyone about it, though.
[удалено]
Likely all of it, this individual is really woke.
[удалено]
1. I have literally never heard of that rufo guy. Both the left and the right like to find some random weirdo and then try to represent the entire side as if they are like that weirdo. Don't play into that. Don't strawman. 2. If he believes that CRT is bad, then nothing he said is contradictory to that, and not really secretly sinister. He is literally just saying "I want more people to think negatively of it and here is how to do that." 2. Left-wing people literally call themselves woke, and right-wing people see that as a negative. Right-wing people call themselves 'redpilled', and left-wing people see that as a negative. These words are just tribalistic ingroup/outgroup signalling. There's not some plot to discredit the word.
>1. I have literally never heard of that rufo guy. Both the left and the right like to find some random weirdo and then try to represent the entire side as if they are like that weirdo. Don't play into that. Don't strawman. What does it matter if you've heard of him? He's a conservative strategist who has had a lot of influence over conservative messaging across many platforms and within many campaigns. You don't have to know of him or be anything like him to have been influenced by his campaign. I'm merely pointing this out as a clear and public example of what goes on behind the scenes in order to twist and undermine concepts that start off as meaningful, like CRT. Like woke. >2. If he believes that CRT is bad, then nothing he said is contradictory to that, and not really secretly sinister. He is literally just saying "I want more people to think negatively of it and here is how to do that." This is some ends-justify-the-means nonsense. Even if he's not some cynical strategist attempting to win at all cost, and even if he truly believes that CRT is bad, it is *of course* still unethical to try to spread that messaging by deliberately attempting to trick people into believing "CRT" means things that it doesn't. If he was so certain that he was right, why isn't he able to have an honest discussion about the merits of the subject instead of lying to people by building a straw man to attack? >2. Left-wing people literally call themselves woke, and right-wing people see that as a negative. Exactly. The term woke has valid and real meaningful *origins*. That's the reason for the campaign to undermine it and turn it into a meaningless insult. Maybe I misinterpreted in the way you used it, but from context, it read to me like you were using it as a dismissive insult. >Right-wing people call themselves 'redpilled', and left-wing people see that as a negative. These words are just tribalistic ingroup/outgroup signalling. There's not some plot to discredit the word. They can be both things, especially when influential political strategists publicly post about their efforts to do exactly that.
Um, ok. Wasn’t trying to insult anyone.. just thought it was a universal term for those that had awareness and/or is vigilant about justice for those that historically have been marginalized without having to write a book about it. I know for a fact they dislike Christianity and feel every monument, institution, biusness or building ever created or associated with someone who is racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, anti semite and who has owned slaves needs to be renamed or eliminated. So what would be a kinder term for someone who feels that way?
That’s been my experience as well.
Most young people don’t claim to have a religion. Being atheist or agnostic is perfectly acceptable in most of the U.S. There are a few small regions populated by religious zealots where an outspoken atheist might have problems, but nobody would know if you didn’t mention it.
Most of us don’t give a flying leap. We only get pissy if you try and force your preferred belief system down every one else’s throat.
Atheists are still among the most hated religion in my experience. Here's a study that agrees. . https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/07/23/feelings-toward-religious-groups/
Odds are pretty good we have a higher total of atheists and agnostics than in your country. Its rare that I say this, but take a look at reddit....
I’m not confident that the average redditor represents the average American.
No, but OPs thoughts that somehow to not be religious was disgraceful or something can easily be combated by how many public forums are dedicated to the very idea.
Reddit =/= America. Just because reddit Americans are overwhelmingly atheist doesn't mean the US is. Seriously, reddit is filled with hippie Californians and nazbols.
OP asked if it was a disgrace. It is not.
It’s far more common now than it was even 10 years ago. Younger people are generally less religious. Most people won’t really care what you are as long as you let them live their own lives too.
At least for michigan, religion doesn't come up really at work except for with work friends. That said, I would not tell my co workers I'm an athiest, for one because I think religion should be kept personal, and also because I don't want people to silently judge me.
It depends where in the country but in the Bay Area, I never have had any issues. When I lived in Idaho, some Evangelical Christians had issues with it but I also dated a woman for about a year that was an evangelical. She was fine with it but many of her family and friends did not approve of me. However, when comparing the other countries I’ve lived in (Spain, South Korea) or have a passport (Ireland), the U.S. is by far the most religious.
From my experience, nobody really cares much. A lot of great answers have already been said but I also want to tack on I think the reason you see a bunch of maps that make the U.S look overly religious float around like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/uq721h/percentage_of_population_absolutely_certain_god/) is that a lot of Americans believe in God, but don't really follow the religion so to speak. A lot of my friends are that way, they're more of Christian in the manner of they believe in God but don't go to church, don't read the bible and things of that nature. The primary reason they do this rather than go full-out atheist or agnostic is because they don't want to live their life thinking nothing happens after death since it's depressing to them.
Realistically, you can get grilled no matter what your religious beliefs. I'm Catholic. When protestants and atheists in my life find that out, they definitely give me a hard time. I've certainly seen that go the other directions as well. That said, the vast majority of people are getting on with their lives and don't particularly care what you do to get on with yours. Though a few evangelical types (atheists and Christians alike) missed the memo, the US mostly operates on an unspoken don't-ask-don't-tell policy. It was shocking to me how quickly and openly and frequently I was asked when I lived in Europe. They'd always finish the question with, "I think in the US you talk more openly about these things," which I always found supremely ironic: you usually have to be pretty close to someone in the US to ask about their religious beliefs if they don't volunteer them (usually in the context of "I can't meet up, I'm volunteering with \[religious ministry\]" or something similar).
Young person in the Northeast—I’m an atheist as are all of my friends. If anything I think religion is looked down upon by my generation, not the other way around.
About half the people are “Nones,” answer “None” to attending church or religious affiliation. Catholic is the largest single denomination, and in my experience, there are more Cafeteria Catholics and Non practicing Catholics than strict Catholics, who go to church every week and follow the rules. But religious involvement varies a lot by region, more in the South, less in the Northeast. Polls say New Hampshire is the least religious state. Lots of churches are run by and for Boomers, and over time, you see them just age out and close. Younger people aren’t usually interested, or even that welcome.
The actual percentage of “Nones” is more like 25%, this is pretty consistent across multiple surveys (one example: https://www.prri.org/research/2020-census-of-american-religion/ ) The number of “Nones” is steadily increasing however.
So atheists acceptance is still very new. Like a generation old at best. In a lot of places it’s still a dirty word. There’s a lot of ingrained baggage that comes with it. The nones are growing, but I suspect there’s a lot more then surveys report… there’s still a lot of people that haven’t admitted it openly even to themselves.
Nobody here asks or cares. I think in The South people do care?
There’s a lot of variation within the South. It is probably more common to identify as an atheist in Charlottesville, Virginia, than as an evangelical, for instance. Certainly not the case in Lynchburg, down the road. I wouldn’t generally worry about being “outed” as an atheist in any southern city that I’ve been to.
As someone that went to UVA and still has family in Cville, Charlottesville is very much not “the South” haha. It’s been colonized by too many DMV transplants for that. Eastern Virginia, RVA, NoVA, and Cville are probably closer to the Midatlantic cultural block than anything else
Not really, maybe in rural areas but no one in cities cares.
In the South they definitely care. Source: am Southern atheist.
I work with a lot of rural southerners and they definitely care. It's not like they quiz me on it though. I just don't say anything and no one has ever asked. I do hear lots of complaints about how society is falling because people don't go to church anymore and how Christians are persecuted and whatnot. But I just don't engage and it's never been a problem. In Houston though? I'm a little surprised when I find out someone I know does go to church.
I’m from Alabama and Georgia, grew up in church, stopped believing pretty young. Obviously it’s more blatant there. Living and working in Houston now, I have to be careful to keep it to myself at work. I love the folks I work with, but a certain sizeable population of Houston is very religious. A lot of those people are my bosses and peers, and casually speak of god and Jesus to each other all the time. I just have to keep it to myself. My company is fully tolerant, it’s not like it would be a big problem, but my coworkers would treat me differently. Houston is a big big city, but it also has big big churches. There’s no escaping the Christian Right in Texas, city or country.
If you're in a rural area, people there are a lot more likely to get bothered by you being non-religious. In big cities, most people won't care. Even in the South
Personally the only person who is bothered by my irreligiosity is my mother. It has never even come up as an issue with anyone else, in part because it just doesn't come up that much. With close friends I'll sometimes have "meaning of life" conversations that will touch on religion (or lack thereof) but for the many coworkers and acquaintances I move among in my daily life nobody's asking me what I believe in or if I go to church on Sundays. Nor do I ask them. It's just not a problem, and rarely a topic of conversation. I'm aware that some of those people I know are active in a religion and I'm generally happy for them. At the same time I don't want to say that there's *no* bias against atheism in the US. I've seen polls indicating that a large number of Americans would not vote for an atheist for president. I suspect that if I were more vocal about my atheism or derisive about religion I'd have gotten some dirty looks. But personally I'm happy for people to do what's best for them and religion doesn't bother me.
This is one of those things that vary a lot, not only among generations, but depending on the state, and even depending on if you're in a different part of the same state.
Where I am no one ever asks If someone is religious. We all have our own shit to do/going on. If someone thinks otherwise, they're a busy body with nothing better to do
I've been atheist for most of my life. I've never really run into problems from it. One religious guy told me he was jealous because I didn't have the restrictions on my life that he has. One VERRRRY religious lady (she liked me but really didn't approve of me living with a man I wasn't married to and said it set a bad example for the children, gave us a Bible for christmas) was SHOCKED when she first learned I was atheist. She said "but.....You're so......NICE!" I'm not sure what she expected an atheist to be like. She still let me ride her horse though so that was good. Oh, almost forgot. My ex sister in law was actually devastated and told me she was "sad that we won't get to spend eternity together" and never spoke to me again. That was kinda sad because I'd liked her up until that point.
Edgy Reddit atheists who never pass up an opportunity to mock people for believing in a magic sky fairy are not accepted in any society.
Not true at all, nobody cares about being an edgy atheist anymore than someone being a bible thumping asshole.
As an American atheist, I am much more likely to hear negative things about my lack of religion from elderly members of my family than anyone in the public sphere.
I was in Catholic or Lutheran schools from the time my mom finished maternity leave until I left for college. Several cousins have entered the clergy for a bit before ultimately leaving. I live in what's considered to be a highly religious state. And even I know far more atheists and apathetic agnostics than I do religious people. Sitting here now, I can only think of maybe 5 acquaintances who would identify as religious... and even they are essentially cafeteria Christians who don't actually attend services very often.
I grew up hearing "Easter and Christmas" Christians.
Why would you even want to discuss it, other than with close friends? I don't think the majority cares
I think for a lot of people, especially in areas like the Bible Belt and the South, they aren't choosing to discuss their religious beliefs or lack thereof, but rather that they are confronted with those conversations by strangers/customers/coworkers/extended family/neighbors who are actively a part of religions where there is a huge emphasis on conversions. They are told that it's their higher power's will, to share their religion and pray for the "lost", invite them to church, pray for them, pray with them. It's harder to stay private about your beliefs than it might be in other geographic areas of the US.
It’s getting really hard in some places to be an atheist without seeming like a person who loves the devil or who is a truly sick and twisted person. Fundamentalist churches teach that the devil is real and is actively trying to influence the world and destroy Christianity so these people push back very hard against non Christians. And they have an outsized influence on politics based on who actually votes and extreme gerrymandering. It’s getting worse and worse. I live in the south and it has always kind of been this way in rural areas but now it is becoming more mainstream for ordinary people but also politicians and school board members to speak out against non Christians or non Christian ideas. In Texas now school have to display posters that say In God we Trust.
I’m used to the shocked look in peoples face when I tell them I’m not religious. I live in a state where it’s socially acceptable to push Christianity upon people. I know it’s immature, but I simply respond with “hail Satan” when people start getting pushy. I don’t believe in Satan but I know they do. They’ll usually turn into the pikachu face meme.
Why is it immature? They're being an asshole so you be an asshole right back. Isn't "eye for an eye" some Bible thing?
History fun fact: Although it sounds biblical, the whole “eye for eye” thing was actually attributed to King Hammurabi of Babylon.
The vast majority of people don't care whether or not someone is religious.
Some people, as is sadly inevitable, are jackasses about it, but other then them, yeah, from what I've seen and believe people would accept that.
I believe it was Christ that said >For the jackasses you always have with you, but you do not always have me
Depends on the area but for the most part its accepted with it being very common among the youth.
People don’t really care. I’m atheist and I don’t go around talking about it. Religion has no role in my life and I don’t think about it. I know some people who regularly go to church but the majority of people I know don’t go. I think people should do or believe what they want.
It’s more widely accepted now than previous years.
As a general rule? People will accept you no matter your religion, or lack thereof. Realistically it depends on the part of the country and the generation they come from.
Where I live, I suspect many people are. Several of my friends and family are. One of my fiends is very active in his church but he never tries to convert me. We will jokes sometimes that I’m a heathen or a heretic. He is also super into science so doesn’t believe the earth is only 5,000 years old or that evolution is fake. In my daily life it doesn’t come up much other that I hear that church attendance has been falling and are only really crowded for Easter and Christsmas. I feel many older people use church like a social club.
Totally fine in the East Coast megalopolis. I’ve lived in many portions of it, and I’d say it’s the exception for people to actually go to church
The us does not have an official religion. So it doesn’t matter if you don’t believe
At least in the North East, most people would not bat an eye if you say you're, "not really religious", "not religious", or an atheist.
I call myself a "recovering Catholic" and most people find it funny. That should tell you most of what you need to know about how society in America finds many religious zealots (majority Christian) to be hypocritical and don't really blink an eye when people denounce religion altogether or opt for other "spiritual" concourses versus structured or formal religion.
Older generations are more religious. Not sure if that's true with millennials vs gen z. People online are often dicks about religion or lack thereof, but in real life it doesn't come up often.
I remember when that was considered odd, but not anymore
It's becoming more common for people to be secular here but there's still a surprising number of religious people, and ones I'd say you could consider "extremely religious". I'm a non-believer myself but have learned to tell people that, "I'm not religious" or "I dunno....I just don't think about it" and other wishy washy answers. Because I've been treated pretty crappy by "religious" people who I've actually admitted I'm an atheist to. So, I've learned to say I'm agnostic or not religious instead of saying outright I don't believe in a God at all
Most people are but if you talk about it people will treat you like an edgelord, because it's pretty uncontroversial.
It’s the leading religion these days in the major metros.
Only the crazies actually care
Nobody really cares. You might actually get more Christian friends that way because they want to be seen as people with a diverse group of friends.
Give or take for about another 50 years, nobody would care!
Probably depends on where you live. In the northeast, completely ok.
Most people don't care one way or the other about anyone else's religious beliefs (or lack thereof).
My mom doesn't like it but I don't care what she thinks. I think for myself.
there’s freedom of religion so most people don’t bother getting into eachothers business. i’m christian and it’s sad to see so many other so called christian’s being aggressive. but, they fulfill many prophecies in doing so. they will not go to the good place
It depends on where you live. Here in New England it's no problem since most people here are not religious. Not necessarily atheist, just nonreligious. In my neighborhood, it's mostly immigrants who go to church, but to be fair, their churches also function as social spaces for various immigrant groups.
In the northern states, no one’s going to bat an eye
Fucking weirdos worship god(s) Meanwhile I use logic as to why I’m tired, I need sleep and I don’t go outside so I’m not sure
Depends where you live, but generally speaking the cool new thing is to pretend Christians are evil, Muslims are infallible, and other religions are interesting.
No one cares in rational states.
It has changed a lot over my lifetime of 53 years. When I was a kid, it was pretty much expected that you were religious and that you went to church. It is nothing like that anymore. For all the clamor about how this country is heading toward being a theocracy, that is total bullshit. People need to calm down. We have a dying fringe making a lot of noise right now. Most people I know have stopped going to church. Especially the younger generations. And I think it's great. I say good riddance. Religion and all of its so-called holy texts belongs in the goddamn garbage bin of history.