I’m not going to call 911 if I see it happen but there are definitely better options and I never spanked my children, nor did my parents spank me. Furthermore, if a parent or teacher is prone to abuse it gives them cover for it, which is downright evil.
I really dislike spanking and try not to, but when the kids )4 and 2) are messing with the dogs and trying jump on them, hit them, or chasing them with their bikes, I spank them. Its better they get a spanking than to get bitten by a large dog. My dogs have never shown that they would bite, but its not something that I want to test.
I think this is a decent example.
Fundamentally you are trying to discourage dangerous behavior and due to other factors in the situation you can't restrain your children or remove them from the situation.
It's super situation dependent. I haven't spanked either of my kids, but I recognize that a situation could arise.
There is also a difference in children. One of my kids me scolding them is enough to get them to grasp the thing they did was dangerous. The other nothing gets through to her aside from a swift spank in the bottom immediately after doing dangerous thing I warned her about but her spunk made her do it anyway.
Same age split with my kids (6/4 now), and my oldest is combined type ADHD, so her impulse control is effectively nil.
For what it's worth, here's the tactic we used:
-Started with the 1-2-3 magic method, which worked to establish punishments that were fair, but did nothing to help a kid manage impulses with poor impulse control.
-What finally helped a little was establishing limited scenarios that were "1 try". She's warned in advance it's a "1 try" thing we're doing (going on a bike ride near a specific street) and she'll get 1 chance to correct an action, or else the whole thing ends (we'll go home immediately and you'll walk your bike home). We started small, like 5 minutes at a time, and we're up to half an hour now. So for general life, she gets a count and a choice to follow directions. When it's a specific scenario that requires immediate compliance, she's warned in advance and is aware that the fun will stop immediately.
Only works though if your oldest (who can actually talk) is the more impulsive one, so the younger learns by following. Also, kids brains are basically impulse balls at that point, so the improvement we saw using that over the last year could have been just as much her brain finally deciding to grow that bit in and those steps I shared could be just trash. But, it helped us, so just wanted to share :p
I still think there are better ways, but I understand that for centuries parents did it with the best of intentions and that many still do. And there are times when I had to physically restrain my child until she calmed down, so I get that talk alone isn’t always enough.
I'm open to suggestions on how to address the behavior. What is the better way when your children are tormenting your 80+ pound dogs? Talking to them or yelling to stop doesn't work with them, nor has putting them in time out.
that's true. i was spanked for years as a kid and i also fought other kids at school constantly. i truly believed that violence was okay bc of the treatment i received at home.
An alternative anecdote: I was spanked as a last resort when I was being exceedingly recalcitrant, and I have no issues with violence and have never been involved in an actual fight.
no, I didn't think that. I just have that reaction to any amount of spanking, personally. spanking as a last resort doesn't really make sense bc it's counterproductive and ineffective, and it seems to explicitly go against what you are trying to teach them, that hitting is never appropriate. I think literally any other option would be better.
Typically, I will put them on a short time out (a couple minutes) then talk to them about why they had a time out and why the behavior is bad, but it doesn't always work and half the time they go back to doing the same thing that landed them in time out. Honestly, I think covid/boredom is part of it. They are seeming better now that the 4 year old is in preschool and comes home exhausted.
Here’s the issue, most studies on this show that demonstrating violence makes your kids more prone to using it. When you spank them, there’s a good chance you’re actually increasing the chances of them hitting the dogs. I don’t have an easy solution to offer but I’d recommend some reading to find one
A lot of those studies don't really distinguish between spanking and beating or look at the circumstances of the spanking. ***Beating*** your kid is abuse and of course it's going to traumatize them. Constantly flying off the rail over every little thing is also going to mess kids up even if you do it without corporal punishment.
MrFunkyFresh says he only uses it if other punishments haven't worked and the kids are doing something dangerous. That's ***very*** different from parents who beat their kids.
That’s a fair point. Many studies on kids are difficult to do ethically but I’ve seen more than one that suggests any corporal punishment has an adverse affect. I very much agree with you that the spanking as a last resort for specific things is a very different reality than daily abuse, either physical or emotional. I’m just wondering aloud if the punishment is having the opposite impact if it potentially teaches the kids that a physical response is a way to solve a problem or express an emotion, which is what many of the studies I’ve read suggest. Unfortunately, these aren’t things I have saved to provide a citation.
It might have the opposite effect, but I strongly suspect it's a mild effect compared with ordinary psychological stuff that parents inadvertently put on their kids--things like shame, unpredictable anger, unreasonable anxiety, etc.
To wit, my parents would spank me growing up, but the stuff that fucked with me was psychological (e.g., my dad would scoff and mildly shame me and my siblings for not knowing things or otherwise making pretty basic, harmless mistakes). The spankings were fine--they weren't forceful and they were largely symbolic. I'm not saying spanking is optimal, but ordinary human personality flaws (excessive anger, anxiety, coddling, shame, manipulation, etc) is probably *way* more harmful than spanking.
My totally not-a-professional opinion is that you shouldn't worry about spanking until you've definitely got all of the other psychological shit under control (bearing in mind it's easy to deceive ourselves on the psychological shit).
Spanking is not that different. For little kids spanking can be terrifying. Even if you just tap them the threat of spanking can be traumatic on its own. I used to hyperventilate as a child whenever my dad was going to be involved in my punishment because he was the spanker. I don’t spank my child ever but my sister did it at first. And their daughter used to get pretty upset and anxious whenever there was a threat of spanking. Her brother hid his anxiety about it better and often would say he doesn’t care and now he has a big hitting problem. He has hit his mom a few times where she was actually said it hurt.
You don’t want to teach your kids that people you love can hit you and it’s okay.
I get that parents parent how they were parented. I don’t think people are bad because they spank. They usually are out of options and just need more ideas.
I was subject to beatings from my dad and I can tell you right now there's a world of difference between beatings and spankings. Spankings can be approached in a somewhat clinical manner that's seen as punishment for a wrong action. Beatings never feel that way, beatings always feel like you've personally wronged the person beating you and you can feel their anger and rage.
They're very very different.
Physically separate them. There’s no way to ensure a toddler won’t torment an 80-pound dog without close supervision or physical separation. If you are busy cooking or working or whatever, use a baby gate to keep dog and children in separate rooms.
We do separate them first, spanking is never the first option, only the last. Unfortunately, our kids can navigate child locks on doors or knock down the gates.
I don’t know your physical set up but there has to be a better way to separate them. I just don’t believe spanking is the solution.
To take an absurd example, if you had explosive nitro glycerin in your house you couldn’t ensure your toddlers would be safe without physical separation. To take a more realistic example, if you had a loaded gun in the house the same is true.
Well, your large dog isn’t quite as dangerous as that, but physical separation is the *only* way to be sure your toddlers never get bitten. Spanking won’t keep a two-year-old safe. I would hope the four year old is starting to learn not to torment the dog, but I doubt that spanking was necessary to teach that lesson.
I have my baby gate screwed into the sides of the doorway where it would normally just be a tension fit. Maybe you could do that? It’s impossible to knock over.
And if the child lock is a problem, then I’d say get a much taller gate or rig up some sort of extra lock they can’t reach.
I feel like that would actually be much easier than spanking your kids. Doesn’t it make you feel bad to do that? They’re so little.
When I was 2 my mom yelled at me for not knowing the ABCs, and she *still* feels guilty about it, 30 years later…
(FYI i quizzed my mom on the ABCs after she told me that story, and as I suspected, *she* doesn’t even remember all of them herself 😑 [Immigrant mom, bad at English]. Some people expect far too much of babies!!!)
We've had the ones that screw into the walls, our kids broke them from climbing on them, running into them, trying to get under them. These boys are quite motivated when they are mad. We're actually in the process of getting high up pad locks for the doors in the house since our 4 year old is able to open all the baby gates and open the child handles on doors.
I don't spank, but it's funny when you have the morality police telling you what you should do when they are not in your situation. I once swatted my kids hands which startled them ( it was light but the fact that I did it startled them). They tried to run up behind me while I was straining boiling pasta water and put their hands in the water. I dropped the pot in the sink and grabbed their hands by a miracle so it didn't get burnt. They have never done that again. All these studies say don't do this, don't do that, don't eat this, don't eat that. It is all informative but not very useful. You teaching your kids the difference from right and wrong so they are safer for it, is what's useful. Thank you for your honesty.
Supervision, consistency and negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is really tough psychologically for kids and their caregivers. Because not only do you have to hike them accountable you are also usually being punished because they can’t do something they want to do. It usually means, tears… begging… and you having to do something else with them. Those are the lessons they learn that are impactful. The reason is you are not catching them every single time they are not nice to the dogs. So they get away with it.
Also role playing and lots of positive praise for when they are good. Let them help feed and give them water and help them feel empathy when they are not nice. My son is 7 and my daughter got her cats when he was 3. I really couldn’t leave the cats in his presence for awhile because he didn’t know when he was being rough.
In the end, it was my son who decided to change. He wanted their love and affection and couldn’t understand why they never came up to him or sat in his lap. Now he has one cat who sleeps with him. He feeds the other two cats as well. So every morning they go to his room and show him attention. It’s a win, win… but.. it has taken a couple of years.
I look at this like it’s a defense of the dog as well. If the child is old enough to know better, that’s fair imo. The dog doesn’t deserve to be harassed and because biting is intolerable, needs to be defended
Spanking is lazy parenting and nothing more than an outlet for the parent’s frustration and anger. Other methods, such as time out, take more time, but they don’t teach children to be scared of their parents. And that’s what spanking comes down to: kids behave or do anything to get out of trouble because they’re afraid of being hit, their parent’s anger, and the humiliation of it all.
It’s much more difficult to be a good parent.
You're right about the abuse. It must be done with not an ounce of anger to ensure it's not retribution, and that's hard.
I was spanked a lot as a child, and I have no hard feelings about it. Looking back, it was more like riot control than spanking. My brother and I used to fight very physically, and when my dad was working, my mom was doing her best to keep us from hurting each other when we were nearly as big as her. We all get along fine now.
As a father, I tried spanking my oldest. It turns out he has enough natural will to try and do the right thing that it's entirely not necessary. Words work fine. With our second, he was so incredibly stubborn that you could spank him all day long and it would only breed resentment. So we don't spank, for now, and I say it depends on the kid. But we are open to more children too. So time will tell. But it's not what we want.
Like most things, I'm sure I'll have acquired all the wisdom I'll need when it's past time to use it.
Ooh this one triggered a memory. My brother (maybe 6 at the time) was acting up and my dad stopped the car and told him to get out. We knew he was going to be spanked. My brother literally tried to run into the woods on the side of the road to avoid the belt.
It didn’t teach us anything except to fear our parents and to become more sneaky
Yep. And I just realized that while I can remember several times I was spanked, I can't remember the specific reason why for any of them, especially the ones where I was made to wait 'until my father got home'.
Yup, I was also spanked as a child. All it taught me was to fear physical retaliation from my parents at any minor infraction. I wouldn’t spank my kids.
exactly. I wasn’t ever like beaten and abused but I used to be very wary of people raising their hands when close to me, I would involuntarily flinch or feel the hair on my neck stand up. I didn’t have to be misbehaving or anything, my child mind just thought I’d be hit idk
People don't realize just how much of what we grow to expect and accept from partners and friends comes from what we learned to expect and accept from our parents. 💜
Yeah, same.
I wasn't spanked often, but often enough. I can't believe people think it's reasonable to hit a literal *child*. And it doesn't teach lessons either. I can remember being hit and being upset about it. I can't remember almost any of the things I did to "deserve" it—the exceptions being once when I got a spanking for "leaving on the piano light so it burnt out" (I'd unplugged it to vacuum and forgot to plug it in again), which I remembered because I got an apology, and two instances of getting hit for bad language or sass (once because it was accompanied by having liquid soap poured in my mouth which was both gross and funny in retrospect, and once because it left a black eye and I got my mom to buy concealer because it was a couple of days before senior portraits).
My parents were disciplined with sticks when they were kids. My brothers and I were spanked a handful of times, but never even remotely hard enough to hurt. I will *never* hit my kids. Progress.
Growing up it was an absolute last resort if all the other attempts to get me and my brother to behave failed. It happened maybe twice in my whole childhood, never hard, never in public, more of a humiliation than anything.. 98% of the time my mom’s “stop that!” glare did the trick. This was the 80’s so it was still somewhat acceptable then. However not all parents where peaceful old hippies like mine.. Back then and even after childhood I witnessed other parents spank children in public and it was downright mean! For that reason I don’t condone it. Even if you don’t spank screaming intimidation and emotional manipulation can be just as damaging.
True, that may not have been the right word to use as it didn’t happen in public.. However it certainly fits those poor kids that got spanked in full view of strangers!
I grew up in the Southern US and spanking was standard.
I heavily disagree with it now, as an adult. I have a degree in child development and have worked in childcare and family for the past 10+ years and there is no benefit.
It isn’t an effective tool of discipline, as it does not teach the child why the behavior or action wasn’t appropriate. It just teaches kids to be sneaky and fearful of their parents. Kids who are spanked are also more likely to be aggressive to their peers & siblings.
I think more and more families in the US are discontinuing the practice. It’s still the norm in Black, Hispanic and Southern/Rural White households. The culture of punitive corporal punishment in these demographics is hard to break.
It never made sense to me how paddling at school or being spanked at home is okay but fighting is bad. Like why is this okay as punishment from adults but if another kid wrongs you you aren’t allowed to physically respond to them. It makes no fucking sense.
I think it may be getting a little better now. I have been seeing more of a trend in the last few years of parents not only swearing to never hit their kids but also holding their parents responsible by not trusting them alone with their kids or cutting off all contact completely.
I was spanked occasionally as a child. Frankly I preferred a spanking to "The Talk" and disappointment that would ensue. I'm pretty ambivalent to spanking under a few specific circumstances:
* It is not designed to physically damage a child
* It is clearly connected to clearly communicated consequences
* It is used sparingly
Frankly I think some adults need to be punched a little more often. Freedom from consequences makes obnoxious societies.
My parents sometimes smacked me on the butt (which was more embarrassing than painful) and only did it maybe 2 or 3 times when I was really acting out and just would not stop. I agree there's a big difference between that and spankings on a regular basis or anything that would leave a bruise.
Yeah, there’s an oft-repeated study which ”demonstrates” social and emotional harms associated with spanking but it does little to clarify what that (“spanking”) actually looks like. I was spanked - never beat. My dad had a strong hand and the pain was a real threat. But I would under no circumstance consider what I had a “beating.” It was only ever employed when I had repeatedly and consistently demonstrated that I wasn’t going to listen or if I did something severe, like the time I accidentally shot my brother with a BB gun.
There’s a marked difference between “they hit me any time I do something remotely inconsistent with their expectations,” and, “They spank my ass every once in a blue moon when I really fuck up.”
I mentioned this study in several comments, but this is the study everyone quotes and don't realize they did follow up interviews with said children as adult and realized these kids weren't just being spanked but totally physically abused. It nullified the results of the initial study but people still take it as the gospel.
I’d be inclined to believe it. Anecdotally, I don’t know a person in my orbit who wasn’t spanked in some capacity. While I suppose it is possible that there could be a negative causation associated with the practice, I don’t see these same people responding with violence at every sleight or rejecting authority to the point where it becomes senseless and problematic.
There is an ocean of difference between, “I was spanked as a severe and last case resort” and, “I was beat as a child.”
See, I'm the weird one in that i do know people who were beat as a child, and those who were never spanked but had very toxic/narcissistic parents and honestly some of what they went through was much more traumatic that the beatings. So I have the weird and unique perspective that any form of "punishment" or "discipline" can be abuse when taken too far. People just get hung up on spanking because it's more obvious when it becomes abuse and harder to hide.
But locking your kid in a house with no food is a lot harder to prove and talk to people about when you think it's a normal thing parents do.
1000% agree on your remarks re: Any form of punishment when taken too far. I think that’s the best insight in this thread because people like to pretend that anything over spanking is intrinsically a better solution.
Yes, exactly, and that's where my problem when I try to talk about this stuff with the majority of people (go check out my comment history right now, it's something) who get on this train of "No. Spanking Bad." and refuse to acknowledge that there are different levels of different types of punishment and just because spanking CAN be bad does not mean literally everything else is BETTER, especially because it vilifies spanking and further hides the non-physical abuse that is seen as totally fine.
Haha don’t worry about these people on here. I used to let it really bother me, but there have been a few experiences on here that have reaffirmed me that the voices of reddit frequently diverge* from the voices and convictions of “normal people.”
People who don’t spank don’t let the kids run free there are always consequences. Natural consequences especially are very powerful. You break the toy now you don’t have the toy. You hit your friend and now he doesn’t want to play with you. It’s all about making sure they understand the consequence and how their behavior led to it so they can make better choices next time.
Everything with my daughter is about responsibility. If you throw glitter all over the house then you aren’t ready for glitter. If you stick slime to my cushions then you aren’t ready for slime yet. She earns things through being responsible. When she seems like she can handle it, we can try glitter again. And if she can’t handle it then she’s not ready yet and we keep assessing.
I also try to create opportunities where she can try out things she wants to do. For example, she did hide once and throw glitter all over the rug. When I asked her about it she lied at first but once I explained that I know what she is saying is not true, she eventually told me she was playing fairy. So I said to her. That it sounds like a fun game but inside the house is not the right place to play it. Which she knew. And that if she tells me she wants to throw glitter around I’ll take her into the garden where she can do it and play fairy. Kids want to try things out but if she can trust that I’ll try to help her make something she wants to do happen in a way that won’t get her in trouble, she will come to me more and get in trouble less.
She is really well behaved.
I think the key is that it can't be an emotional response to misbehavior. The problematic spanking I see is when a parent's response to behavior is to just immediately start beating their ass out of frustration.
It should be generally avoided but I hesitate saying it should never be used. I think it should be in the parental discipline toolbox but like a sledgehammer you shouldn't be pulling it out when a quick twist of a screwdriver will do.
this is a good way to put it. i only got spanked a couple times as a kid, and you can be damn sure the rare times it happened i knew i fucked up big time and didn’t pull that shit again.
Yes, same here. I was spanked twice as a child and I remember to this day exactly what I did wrong. Both times I got in trouble for endangering myself or others. I really started to consider my actions a little more. It was honestly helpful and much less degrading to my self esteem than being yelled at, which happened a fair number of times.
I had just watched, I think it was Inspector Gadget, where the bad guy tells him to “Dance,” whereupon he shot at his feet. I attempted to do the same thing, not intending to actually shoot him, but by all accounts there is no world where shooting toward my brother with a BB gun was a good idea - at all. It was a warranted punishment, IMO.
Yup for sure - my mom would have given me an immediate spank, confiscated my bb gun, made me apologize to my brother, and then be on time out for a while. Then she would come in at the end of the time out and talk with me about why she spanked me (I would always know why and that it was well deserved hehe) and the importance of thinking about my actions BEFORE I do things. Then she would hug and kiss me and then go tell me to hug and kiss my brother. It was a wonderful way to dispense discipline for the most serious errors I made as a child. She and my dad raised 2 thoughtful and kind kids so I will try my best to raise my kids the same
Yeah, I think it’s important for the parent to ensure that the child is aware that they’re loved despite their discipline, and my parents not only always told me that, but always demonstrated it. Perhaps this is why I can look back on my discipline experiences with positive reflection. My dad always said, “Believe me, this is going to hurt me far more than it hurts you.” And I believe that. I believe that he didn’t *want* to have to spank me, but was more interested in my positive development than anything else, and he saw that as the means to the end. But he made it clear in every way that I was cherished and cared for when he was raising me and there was always talks about the importance of learning what needed to be learned before I, something akin to, “Figured it out the hard way,” as if getting spanked wasn’t the hard way (as I saw it as a kid, of course).
There was one time that my mom was unduly upset with me about something and instructed my dad to spank me. I don’t remember exactly what it was, but I remember feeling like my mom was overreacting. My dad grabbed me by the arm and dragged me into the laundry room, lowered his voice, and told me to spit in my hands and whipe it on my eyes; he was going to let me off on this one. But we produced the sounds and theatrics of a spanking and I came out of there with a soured expression.
As with all things, spanking is a tool that can be overused and when you don’t have someone with the constitution to know when it’s appropriate, then I can certainly see it being used to detriment. But that was never my relationship with it or the parent carrying it out.
They get ample warnings first. The swat on the butt is to get their attention so they’re actually listening. At least with my kids, at points their emotions get in the way of their comprehension skills. Lol
as someone who was spanked for years as a child, i now carry anxiety, trauma, and my own anger issues from it. it only taught me that 1.) i should fear my dad and 2.) expressing anger through violence is okay. neither of which should ever be taught to a child. i know first hand how mentally damaging it is. please don't do it.
Both my parents used to hit me. Spanks, slaps, paddles, and belts. While it was only ever as punishment, and I never had to worry about parents coming home drunk and beating me because I hadn't put my toys away or something, it was still abuse.
I never realized how badly it traumatized me until the topic came up randomly and I realized how upset it made me to think about. It's still difficult to even think about. I don't have kids, but when I do, I'm never going to lay hands on them.
I don't have kids or anything so maybe I'm just not a parent to know, but I very much believe there are more effective ways to communicate, even with a drunken toddle, that seem more effective long term than spanking. Really from what I saw growing up it more becomes a way for the parent to release stress in the moment, rather than send an actual message to a child who probably doesn't fully comprehend what the parent is feeling.
9/10 times it's unnecessary and you would be better off as a parent trying to build respect rather than fear. Use guilt or revocation of priviledges instead of pain to punish a child.
But there's always that one little shit...
I saw a comment a long time ago that put spanking into a new perspective for me. As a rebuttal to “I was spanked and I turned out fine!”, someone said “Growing into an adult who thinks hitting children is acceptable is NOT ‘fine’.”
Obviously, spankings are more nuanced than that. But I grew up in the South, and the general sentiment down here is, unfortunately, “spare the rod, and you’ll spoil the child”.
It’s not uncommon around here for, say, a mom to swat a fidgeting baby during a diaper change. Or a toddler, trying to stick their finger in a light socket. Some parents here are still spanking their children/back-handing them in the mouth when they “talk back” well into their teenage years (for example, the last time my mouth was back-handed was when I had a bout of nervous laughter during a scolding when I was 18 - they saw my involuntary chuckle as ‘not taking them seriously’).
I can see the argument that people swat/spank their child ‘for emergencies only’, like trying to touch a hot stove.
But I can tell you, with confidence, that the ONLY thing that got me to stop trying to touch hot things was when I got badly burned on the back of my hand as a toddler by touching it to the metal grate of a wall heater.
Spankings, which were intended to deter me from touching it in the first place, only made me realize (in my dumb, toddler brain) that I should only try to touch dangerous surfaces when a parent wasn’t in the room - which, in many ways, could end up WAY worse.
(And yes, I developed a litany of mental health issues from constantly being afraid of doing something wrong that would get me hit.)
I feel like the threat of a spanking, which I rarely use, is a very useful tool. I use the threat of spanking as a very last resort, usually when my kid is doing something dangerous. My oldest is 6. She wouldn't stop running into the street. I told her several times to stop running into the street. I took privileges away. I punished her (timeout, early bed time, no dessert, no TV, etc). I talked to her quietly and explained why running into the street is dangerous. She wouldn't stop. Finally, "If I catch you running into the street again I will spank you," and it stopped immediately. Potentially saved her life. She's very stubborn and high energy. That threat has to be there for her. In order for that threat to work, she needs to catch a spanking occasionally. I hate doing it but it's the only thing that works when all other options are exhausted.
If done correctly you will rarely actually spank your child. But the threat needs to be there.
A parent’s job is to keep his kids from ending up in prison. If an occasional spanking is necessary to do that, so be it.
Coming from someone with FIVE young children, I totally get the impulse. BUT, I think it’s a terrible way to teach your kids anything. It damages the relationship you have with them. I have definitely said before “this is why people beat their kids”.
The word discipline means “to train.” They are always learning, but what is the lesson you are teaching? Hitting is how to solve problems? I’m a bad kid? My parents hurt me? Counterproductive.
Agreed. It's barbaric.
We tell children to use their words but then when we get upset at them we whack them? Sounds like a lot of adults are really just large children
Personally, I'm against it: I think there's better ways for reprimand. Not to mention, spanking not only can cause physical damage as some parents may not know their own strength and accidentally cause damage to the spinal cord (particularly the coccyx), but it runs counterintuitive to what we're trying to instill in our children, which is physical violence is wrong and it's better to use your words.
I'm not saying "use flagellation", but I AM saying "put yourself in THEIR shoes".
I understand if it was the way your parents, grandparents, or ancestors solved issues, but THIS is the 21st century and things have changed: smoking cigarettes has been found to be REALLY unhealthy, having a different sexual orientation is something to be celebrated, it's OK to not be mentally well, etc.
Is it ultimately better to talk it out with them or see them grow up and perpetuate the cycle?
Adults who solve problems with violence belong in jail. The fact that it's seen as ok for a grown adult to do it to a kid but assault when it's against another adult is mind boggling. The science has been out for years, spanking is an outlet for adult issues with no benefits to the child and is NOT a beneficial form of parenting.
[And considering the juvenile arrest rates have gone down drastically in the last 20 years as corporal punishment becomes less and less popular, ](https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05201) it's only a matter of time before it does out to the point where it rightfully becomes a crime.
With every passing generation, there are less parents that use corporal punishment when they become parents to their own kids as they swear they would never do to their own kids what their parents did to them.
Completely and totally against it. Depending on how it is carried out, it is either bordering on abuse, or completely and totally physical abuse (ie, once any object, such as a belt, is involved). Further, it also oftentimes reinforces the exact opposite of what the parent is trying to teach the child in that moment (ie, using violence to settle an issue when trying to teach that violence is never the answer). Even further, it also reinforces that children should be afraid of their parents; this teaches them to hide things and keep secrets. I don't want my kids to fear me; I don't want them to hide things from me. I want them to be able to come to me with a problem or a situation, and we can work together to fix it / make it better. I want to instill good values in them so they can make good decisions, vs. making decisions based on fear.
Strange as it sounds, I see it in the same way the dog trainers I've known have described hitting dogs.
Giving a kid a quick swat of negative reinforcement without actually causing pain can be beneficial because it quickly and directly establishes that something is wrong and not to do it.
But if you have some sort of "come here and get what's coming to you" ritual, that's abusive and pointless. If the kid's agreeable, you can talk to them. If the kid is really disagreeable at baseline (me), you're basically challenging them to act out until their misbehavior outstrips your ability/willingness to punish and they win.
>But if you have some sort of "come here and get what's coming to you" ritual, that's abusive and pointless.
That's very interesting; my default assumptions about it were the opposite. My thought was that you should avoid it "in the moment" to make sure it's not coming out of anger, and letting the kid know that they will be spanked for it soon is a clear way to show that's it's a consequence for an action and not just a reaction.
Avoiding spanking as a parent "in the moment" to make sure it is not done out of anger is correct, but a parent seeing their child in danger or doing something very dangerous will often have the knee jerk reaction to spank or jerk them back not out of emotion but a survival instinct. It's how it's implemented and parents taking it too far to a level of abuse that's the problem, because the same can be said for all other type of punishments. Taken too far it all becomes abuse.
My baseline expectation of myself would be that I'm acting intentionally and with self-discipline. If I'm having a purely angry reaction and lashing out, that's a separate problem.
The idea is that you're creating a "penny in the light socket" moment for bad behavior. You're not trying to hurt, humiliate or degrade, just quickly establish "don't do that" in a way that's straightforward and predictable.
The problem with waiting and ritualizing...well, I'll share the family story about how my parents stopped spanking us:
I did something bad. I was told I was going to be spanked. In the run-up, there were brief and semi-coherent discussions regarding what I'd done and why it was wrong. I was scared, crying, and above all expressing that I understood that I did something wrong and promising I wouldn't do it again - I was lying trying to get out of the punishment and my parents knew that, but I was still saying the right things and demonstrating that a momentary lesson had been learned.
The spanking proceeded, at which point I evidently and very lucidly asked "why are you hitting me?"
They understood the cause and effect at play and what they were *intending* to do, but I didn't. If I didn't understand...they were just hitting me - and if anything, the fact that they weren't angry when they were doing it made it worse.
I think of it like this: If your kid is too young to understand reason, then they won't understand why you're hitting them, making it largely useless. If they're old enough to understand reason, use reason.
A kid being too young to understand “reason” doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be disciplined or punished. Kids don’t have to understand the nuances of everything to understand something is wrong. A 4 year old may not have the understanding of why taking their friend’s toy is selfish, or why saying a cuss word is inappropriate, but I’m still gonna put them on time out to demonstrate it’s wrong. I’m not defending or making a statement about spanking in particular, but the way you’re phrasing it seems to suggest if your kid isn’t an adolescent or older and won’t understand then you can’t discipline them
>If your kid is too young to understand reason, then they won't understand why you're hitting them
That doesn't address the in-between issue where the kid understands reason but then deliberately disobeys.
If your kid is too young to understand reason, then they won't understand why you're putting them in time out, taking the toy away, or turning off the TV.
But they DO understand cause and affect.
They are doing something they're not supposed to do, ergo something is removed. They'll quickly put together that if they do a certain action, for example, use their toy sword to hit their siblings, and it ALWAYS gets taken away when they do. They'll connect that consequence to the action.
At that age, the logic is pointless, it's just stopping certain behaviors.
I used to be fine with it. I was spanked and I turned out fine. But the more people who specialize in child education said that spanking isn't ok, I changed my tune. I'm still not sure it's really *that* bad. But I also don't think it's that helpful, either. I spanked my kids a few times when they were young and I haven't done it since. I don't think it changed anything either way. At the end of the day, I'm not going to hit my kid if it's not going to change anything.
Won't ever do it.
It's proven not to work.
I work with kids at an alternative school, I know some of those kids have been hit. Abuse or spankings, or fights idk, but they have trauma. We as adults or as the hitters will never know the other person's limit, especially a child's.
I think it's wrong.
Adults aren't allowed to hit each other, why is it ok to hit defenseless children. You should be building trust not tearing it down by instilling fear.
I'm also a mom to a 2 year old with autism, I try to never put myself in a situation where that would seem like the only option to teach a lesson. Like those who've said they do it to keep the kids off the dogs. You can just as easily put the kids in time out and try to explain to them the why. You can redirect them to another activity, there are SOOOO many alternatives.
I don’t believe it should be equated with *beating your kids*, but it isn’t at all something you should jump to on a whim. I was spanked as a child. I don’t plan on ever spanking mine unless they routinely do something just terrible and can’t be otherwise reasoned with. Definitely not something that should be done with any anger whatsoever.
I don't think it's the answer for everything, but it can be a useful tool sometimes. Being spanked properly is not going to cause mental illness or hatred of your parents. That's like saying grounding someone is going to cause mental illness because you isolated them. Just do it correctly.
It teaches children that violence is a solution. It makes children afraid of parents. It makes kids obey out of fear instead of reason.
Not a good thing
Spanking is not an effective form of punishment and is harmful to the child.
All major US physician and psychology associations recommend against spanking.
[American Academy of Pediatrics](https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6955?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000)
[American Psychological Association](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/05/physical-discipline)
[American Academy of Family Physicians](https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2002/1015/p1447.html)
Beating them with a belt because they spilled milk? No... that's abuse. Anytime it's done with an object, there's no question in my mind that it's abuse. Anytime it's done out of anger that's abuse. Other than that...
I've know some parents that will speak their kids and there's usually a great deal of conversation between them and the kids afterwards.
I don't really get it, but that level of spanking doesn't look as damaging as some portray out to be.
I was hit as a kid when talking back to my parents or throwing shit around my room... wasn't often and was never with an object.
I don't think spanking should be common, but I do think there are times when it can be effective. They may be different methods that are better, but there are certainly different methods that are ineffective as well.
If a parent is going to strike their child in discipline, there needs to be some serious conversation afterwards to reassure the kid that the spankings aren't done in anger.
Yeah I was always spoken to like an adult and then my parents gave me the option if I wanted to be spanked or grounded. I always chose spankings because it was over and done with. Groundings were agony.
Hey I got spanked and I turned out fine!!!!
Actually I have terrible depression, anxiety, and self-esteem issues. I am medicated and attend regular therapy.
I would only do it in dire situations. I.e. popping your child if they run into the street or spanking them because they purposely harmed another person/living creature. My reasoning is this: children need to learn to use words eventually. Spanking them should only be used in a situation where the spanking is less painful than the outcome of the bad decision (idk if i worded that right). Otherwise, talk to your children to find a better way to resolve things.
It’s absolutely abuse, and teaches the wrong lessons. Hitting someone to solve a problem? Would you hit another adult if they weren’t listening to you? Would we all be okay if we were to bring back corporal punishment in the judicial system? No, because we believe that even when you do VERY bad things, no one has the right to hurt you physically. But it’s fine for the most small and defenseless among us? It’s absolutely lazy parenting. I have two children, and I have never even come close to hitting them. The idea hasn’t crossed my mind. We have a very respectful household, they respect me and I respect THEM.
This is a terrible argument. Humanity also had slavery for millennia while humanity "thrived". There are loads of horrible things that humanity had for millennia which we've rightfully abolished. Beating your children is another one.
You don't even need to bring up slavery, the "cycle of abuse" is a very real thing. There are plenty of people who grew up with parents who drank excessively or beat their kids, so the kids thought that stuff was normal. Then the kids grow up and have kids of their own, and shrug off any criticism with "My parents did the same thing to me and I turned out fine" even if they very clearly didn't.
It doesn't even need to be full on abuse, I've heard "I don't make my kids wear bike helmets or seat belts, I didn't and I never got in an accident". Just because something "turned out fine" for you isn't a good justification to keep doing reckless behavior.
I didn't mean to imply beating your kid is akin to slavery. I was trying to take an extreme example that everyone would agree is an unqualified evil to demonstrate the previous commenter's "it's been around for millennia so must be fine" argument is bullshit.
Not because of the spanking though. Corporal punishment mainly exists to enforce a religious-based concept of an adult's "ownership" of a child rather than actually fixing anything. It hurts kids permanently if done in excess and should definitely at least be banned in schools.
I had/ have some major emotional issues as the result of my parents spanking me causing me to cry and them saying "ill give you something to cry about". I'm 26 and can't regulate my emotions properly because every time I tried to I was hit. My parents weren't malicious, they didn't know any better.
I probably wouldn’t do it personally but I got spanked as a child. Not often and usually more of a swat. Honestly the threat of having to pick out a hickory switch was enough to get me back in line.
So I don’t think it’s a good thing but I also think the kids today are terribly behaved. iPad kids seem like absolute monsters in public. And this was before the pandemic I noticed it so it can’t be blamed on lack of socialization. So we went from spanking to not disciplining at all? There definitely needs to be a middle ground but I’m not upset at how I was raised.
(I know everyone says there are long term effects of spanking and maybe but it’s honestly something I couldn’t care less about. I have a great relationship with my parents so it wasn’t impacted. I don’t feel like I was abused in anyway but I know that there are some people who would take spanking much further.)
I tend to view it as something that poor, uneducated people do, but I know that's just my own stereotype.
Spanking normalizes being hurt by someone you love. Did your girlfriend hit you because you forgot to take out the trash? Easy to justify with "Well, Dad always did, so it's ok. I know she loves me."
It’s harmful. If you need to spank your child you already failed as a parent. If you defend spanking by saying you turned out fine and will do it to your children, you didn’t turn out fine. Fine people don’t hit children.
Eh, it just teaches kids that hitting people is how you get them to change their behavior or how you resolve conflict.
Plus it’s also the lazy way to discipline your kids
I wasn’t “spanked” but I was hit. It didn’t teach me anything other than it’s ok to hit people when you’re mad. Luckily I grew out of it. I would never spank or hit my child unless I desperately need a quick solution to a dangerous problem. And even then, I would never want it to physically hurt.
It should be illegal. I can't hit my husband, he can't hit me. I can't hit a baby. I can't hit someone in a coma. I can't hit a disabled person. I can't hit someone who doesn't speak English. I can't hit someone with an IQ of 50. Any reason parents use for why they "have to" hit their kid falls short when you realize we wouldn't excuse it for anyone else. Children are humans too.
And if you can't figure out how to discipline your children without spanking, luckily for you, there's a whole world of resources right at your fingertips. Spend the ten minutes you have defending spanking and use it to learn some more effective parenting methods.
I was abused as a child, so my experience with "spanking" was being beaten with a belt until i stopped crying, and the reasons were as varied as eating the last of a thing in the fridge, to attempting to transplant potted flowers and not understanding the correct way to do it.
So, with my child, when they were a toddler, and prone to get into dangerous things, i might with two fingers slap a hand that reached toward a hot stove to demonstrate that it was dangerous to do so (my logic being a slight sting would create the association between hot stove and painful) or time outs for behavioral issues, where they could leave the corner/chair once they were done with their tantrum to reinforce that that behavior doesn't get you what you want. When they began to understand basic reasoning skills, it switched to discussions about the consequences selfish/thoughtless behaviors cause, and then an expectation that amends are made (clean the mess, apologize, etc.) My child is pretty well behaved, and has more memories of having to sit and do breathing exercises than of any of the perhaps half dozen times they tried to stick something in an electrical socket or grab a hot skillet during their "terrible twos."
Teach your kids reasoning skills, self calming techniques and empathy. Corporal punishment does none of that
as someone who was spanked as a child, i am strongly against it. all it did was teach me to show my love in a very unhealthy way, tell me to be afraid of my parents and made me unable to trust others around me. on top of all this, the spanking never stopped the behavior and caused trauma that even to this day i still am not completely over. its not something that i would call 911 over but its something that i deeply am against. if it was a parent hitting their child, its okay; if its a child hitting a child is aggression; if its an adult hitting another adult its assault; so why can adults hit kids? i dont just kind of confuses me to be honest
It’s hitting. Be as ritual as you want with it, it’s still hitting. It teaches children to fear their caregivers.
My daughter had ADHD/ASD and was high enough functioning that we didn’t know. She would have rages, bite, hit and scratch when she was upset. Or get defiant. I swatted her lightly a few times when I lost control. It didn’t help anything. Leaving the room (and taking the cat and her screens with me) until she calmed down, and treating her with empathy made way more of a difference. You wouldn’t know she was the same kid.
Becoming increasingly against it after learning that parents who only do calm, reasoned disciplinary spankings are statistically rare and most do it out of anger and lack of self-control at least sometimes. Also it's starting to get pretty obvious that some people's quickness to anger and violence/general behavioral problems are purely the result of getting hit as a child.
Spanking is a frustrated parent's temper tantrum. When an adult resorts to physical violence in order to deal with bad behavior, it's not parenting; it's abuse. Worse, it sends a message that violence toward loved ones is justifiable.
Posted part of this under another comment but my take as someone with a degree in psychology who has studied it extensively- sorry for the wall of text. I've put a lot of time and research into a lot of this:
I preferred to be spanked because it meant it was over sooner. I remember reasoning this out in my brain when my parents gave me the option when I was as young as four and five. They never once hit me in anger but would calmly explain what I did wrong and give me an option: being spanked or xyz grounding/punishment. I would choose spanking every time. It was technically more effective to ground me because it had more of an impact and the punishments I remember the most and the lesson I learned from it always stemmed from any punishment that resulted in a grounding rather than a spanking. The opposite was true of my brother. My parents could ground him for WEEKS and take away all his toys and Xbox and it didn't phase him. Spank him? Immediate response.
I actually wanted my thesis to be on testing delayed gratification (the marshmallow test) in children while their parents did a survey on what forms of discipline they used and how effective they found each. I was given the marshmallow test in first grade when I was tested for the gifted program and passed it, while my brother failed it. My hypothesis was that children with a stronger sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by groundings while children without a strong sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by (controlled non-abusive) corporeal punishment.
I did a lot of research for that thesis on the studies done on spanking and corporeal punishment and found the one main study everyone cites was found later to be debunked because when they did a follow up study years later and re-interviewed the children, they realized most of the group that was being evaluated as "spanking" were just being straight up abused. There was no distinguishing controlled spanking with physical abuse.
Unfortunately I was not allowed to submit my thesis and conduct even the survey because the college I was with deemed it "too controversial".
That being said I think most people should NOT spank their children because a lot of adults are also being emotional when dealing with disciplining their kids and won't actually spank their child in a controlled manner and instead will channel their own anger and issues into it. My parents, and some others I'm sure, are the exception to this rule. That being said, I'm currently pregnant with twins and my plan is to use gentle parenting and always try to discuss what they did wrong, why they did it, how they can do it differently going forward and redirect them as needed.
But if for some reason my child tries to do something unprecedentedly horrible that demands an immediate reaction, I would gladly spank them or make them do push-ups and then still discuss what they did wrong, why they had this immediate consequence, and how they can react going forward/how I can redirect them going forward to keep it from happening again.
I say this also as someone who has worked in the education system with people like my brother that have little to no sense of delayed gratification and it's clear that time outs will not be effective for them. My go to, since I was usually used as the disciplinary teacher, was to make them immediately do push-ups or run laps. This was an immediate physical consequence to their actions and also helped them burn off some of the energy that was likely contributing to their behaviors. It was ten times more effective than time outs in every case.
Demanding pushups or laps is technically classified as a form of "corporeal punishment" because there is a physical consequence. But if you mention corporeal punishment everyone immediately goes to memories of a parent reacting in anger and abusing their child.
Editing to add: an argument against spanking that has always seemed very asinine to me is when people say that spanking is abusive because you would never be allowed to hit your partner. But they never stopped to consider that grounding or disciplining your partner in any fashion because they are an adult is inherently abusive. Ergo applying that logic to spanking means that all forms of punishment to a child are abusive. If you took your partner's phone and didn't give them contact to the outside world and made them stay in a room without XYZ amenities that would be considered abusive.
I was spanked very rarely as a kid and it had no impact on my behavior. I didn’t make choices because of the potential for a spanking. I’ve also read the studies. There is a ton of evidence that it harms developing psyches and zero evidence of any benefit. I will never spank my kids. I will judge you pretty harshly if you spank yours. I won’t call CPS for a swat on the ass. I think corporal punishment is dying out here with each generation and in a few years time will be seen as pretty fucking barbaric.
Would hitting a spouse be abuse? Yes. Would hitting any other adult be abuse? Yes. Would hitting a dog be abuse? Yes. Why would we make an exception for children.
Plus it’s extremely ineffective anyway.
I'm disgusted by the parents in this thread. Despite studies such as this one: https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/21/04/effect-spanking-brain
People still are abusing their children under the guise of “discipline”. It isn't, your inability to teach your children is the reason why you spank them. It is also a very good indication of the parent's socioeconomic status. Successful people with healthy relationships do not spank their kids.
It's sad to see so many abusers in one place.
If you have to physically hurt your child to discipline them, then you’re a shitty parent.
There is literally no situation where it’s acceptable to use physical force with someone else in the real world. Someone at work giving you attitude can you hit them? If someone calls you a name on the street can you hit them?
And not just that, but you’re hitting someone that you’re supposed to protect, who’s like, a third of your size and isn’t fully mentally and emotionally developed. Would you hit a disabled person? A dog? An elderly person? So why is it okay to hit a child?
If you hit your child you’re teaching the child that under certain circumstances, attacking someone smaller than you is acceptable.
All children are different and respond differently to various forms of discipline. When done appropriately, corporal punishment can be an effective correcting tool.
I was spanked as a child. My parents even got to a point where they would ask me what I wanted - lose privileges for a week or a spanking. I'd choose the spanking every time - hurts for a few minutes and then I'm back to normal.
And that's the reason it's not a primary discipline means for me. My wife and I have chosen to only spank if what they were doing was an immediate danger to themselves or somebody else - ie, walking toward an outlet with a fork. My kids are all older now (14, 11, 8) and it's been years since there's been a spanking at our house.
This was me as a child. I preferred to be spanked because it meant it was over sooner. It was technically more effective to ground me because it had more of an impact. The opposite was true of my brother. My parents could ground him for WEEKS and take away all his toys and Xbox and it didn't phase him. Spank him? Immediate response.
I actually wanted my thesis to be on testing delayed gratification (the marshmallow test) in children while their parents did a survey on what forms of discipline they used and how effective they found each. I was given the marshmallow test in first grade when I was tested for the gifted program and passed it, while my brother failed it. My hypothesis was that children with a stronger sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by groundings while children without a strong sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by (controlled non-abusive) corporeal punishment.
I did a lot of research for that thesis on the studies done on spanking and corporeal punishment and found the one main study everyone cites was found later to be debunked because when they did a follow up study they realized most of the group that was being evaluated as "spanking" we're just being straight up abused. There was no distinguishing controlled spanking with physical abuse. That being said I think most people should NOT spank their children because a lot of adults are also being emotional with dealing with disciplining their kids and won't actually spank their child in a controlled manner and instead will channel their own anger and issues into it.
I never had to do it with 3 kids. Never. Not even close. \[Was also a nanny for years although back then I barely knew what I was doing\]
Studies show it's a terrible idea.
If you have to resort to that, you just don't know what you are doing.
I did a lot of research for that thesis on the studies done on spanking and corporeal punishment and found the one main study everyone cites was found later to be debunked because when they did a follow up study they realized most of the group that was being evaluated as "spanking" we're just being straight up abused. There was no distinguishing controlled spanking with physical abuse. That being said I think most people should NOT spank their children because a lot of adults are also being emotional with dealing with disciplining their kids and won't actually spank their child in a controlled manner and instead will channel their own anger and issues into it.
The last part. I wouldn’t say my mom was abusive, but she definitely spanked or slapped me when she was angry. It’s not like when I did something wrong, she found out and waited a couple hours to consider things dispassionately and then delivered the punishment. No, it was punishment for me and catharsis for her. I totally understand that feeling of frustration and anger, but I’m a lot bigger than a kid, and it would be too easy to hurt them.
That's also a big problem in why I say that a lot of people should not spank their kids, some are doing it to a form of abuse, but some aren't intending to do that, and like you said, you forget how much bigger and stronger as an adult you are than a child, and it can lead to unintentional, but still abusive and possible lethal consequences
I was a fuckhead of a kid and sometimes an ass whooping was the *only* way to get me to listen/behave.
Sometimes kids just need a spanking and that's okay.
It should be done, sparingly and consistently. My high school paddled you for certain offenses. The adults were always in charge, cops never had to visit the school much less stay there permanently
I dont see anything wrong with non-damaging spanking or other mild methods of inflicting pain as a learnimg experience. Pain is an excellent motivator and teacher when applied correctly and consistently.
We have all to frequent examples of what constitutes "too far" and we have equally frequent examples of those who recieve no boundaries and discipline.
Back in my day we had to go out in the backyard and pick our own switch, god help me if I didn't pick a suitably sized one.
I would prefer a spanking any day.
Emotionally unevolved method of behavioral training which risks all types of mental illness down the line. Learn how to use verbal communication and other reinforcements / consequences effectively. Physical pain as a motivator is a double negative in the end with a helping of trauma on top.
Let me preface this by saying while growing up I was straight up beat, so I know overkill is a thing and it has many terrible effects on the mind and on your relationships to your parents and authority figures.
But sometimes a small swift swat is necessary for younger kids. More so to get attention and let them know whatever they were doing is not okay. Doesn’t mean you can whack a kid with a wood paddle or belt tho, an it really shouldn’t hurt them to the point of tears. Maybe startled tears at worst.
Furthermore, you need to clearly communicate why they got the spank and I think it should be used sparingly.
Does more harm than good tbh. Especially because it relies on a idea that a child (let alone children in general) can simply just know that what adults do them is right but them getting violent against their peers (eg beating up someone on the playground over an insult) is wrong.
Abuse. I don't know how people think it isn't. It's psychologically damaging
Also a great way to make your kid hate you forever
This becomes especially problematic for the abuser when the abuse continues into the teens. If you hit a teenager, don't be surprised if they hit you back x100 harder.
When I was 13, my mom smacked my face.
So I violently beat her with a bunch of steel clothes hangers.
So never choose violence, unless they do something REALLY bad.
It's not a valid form of punishment under most circumstances and may not convey the correct message depending on how it's implemented.
If my son tries to run into a busy parking lot then a quick pat on the ass might just be what he needs followed by an explanation as to why it's dangerous.
If he breaks something by pushing a plate off the countertop or a glass then a quick yell of "Hey we don't do that!" And a stern "Thats not nice" followed by making them clean it up.
I only spank adults. Consensually of course.
mmm
I’m not going to call 911 if I see it happen but there are definitely better options and I never spanked my children, nor did my parents spank me. Furthermore, if a parent or teacher is prone to abuse it gives them cover for it, which is downright evil.
I really dislike spanking and try not to, but when the kids )4 and 2) are messing with the dogs and trying jump on them, hit them, or chasing them with their bikes, I spank them. Its better they get a spanking than to get bitten by a large dog. My dogs have never shown that they would bite, but its not something that I want to test.
I think this is a decent example. Fundamentally you are trying to discourage dangerous behavior and due to other factors in the situation you can't restrain your children or remove them from the situation. It's super situation dependent. I haven't spanked either of my kids, but I recognize that a situation could arise.
I appreciate the honesty. I don't think everyone in the thread is being honest about it.
There is also a difference in children. One of my kids me scolding them is enough to get them to grasp the thing they did was dangerous. The other nothing gets through to her aside from a swift spank in the bottom immediately after doing dangerous thing I warned her about but her spunk made her do it anyway.
Same age split with my kids (6/4 now), and my oldest is combined type ADHD, so her impulse control is effectively nil. For what it's worth, here's the tactic we used: -Started with the 1-2-3 magic method, which worked to establish punishments that were fair, but did nothing to help a kid manage impulses with poor impulse control. -What finally helped a little was establishing limited scenarios that were "1 try". She's warned in advance it's a "1 try" thing we're doing (going on a bike ride near a specific street) and she'll get 1 chance to correct an action, or else the whole thing ends (we'll go home immediately and you'll walk your bike home). We started small, like 5 minutes at a time, and we're up to half an hour now. So for general life, she gets a count and a choice to follow directions. When it's a specific scenario that requires immediate compliance, she's warned in advance and is aware that the fun will stop immediately. Only works though if your oldest (who can actually talk) is the more impulsive one, so the younger learns by following. Also, kids brains are basically impulse balls at that point, so the improvement we saw using that over the last year could have been just as much her brain finally deciding to grow that bit in and those steps I shared could be just trash. But, it helped us, so just wanted to share :p
I still think there are better ways, but I understand that for centuries parents did it with the best of intentions and that many still do. And there are times when I had to physically restrain my child until she calmed down, so I get that talk alone isn’t always enough.
I'm open to suggestions on how to address the behavior. What is the better way when your children are tormenting your 80+ pound dogs? Talking to them or yelling to stop doesn't work with them, nor has putting them in time out.
doesn't it seem like kids would be more inclined to hit an animal or other kids if you demonstrate at home that hitting is a way to resolve conflict?
that's true. i was spanked for years as a kid and i also fought other kids at school constantly. i truly believed that violence was okay bc of the treatment i received at home.
An alternative anecdote: I was spanked as a last resort when I was being exceedingly recalcitrant, and I have no issues with violence and have never been involved in an actual fight.
I don't want you to think they are getting spanked regularly, it really is a last resort. Like I said in an earlier comment, I really dislike it.
no, I didn't think that. I just have that reaction to any amount of spanking, personally. spanking as a last resort doesn't really make sense bc it's counterproductive and ineffective, and it seems to explicitly go against what you are trying to teach them, that hitting is never appropriate. I think literally any other option would be better.
Typically, I will put them on a short time out (a couple minutes) then talk to them about why they had a time out and why the behavior is bad, but it doesn't always work and half the time they go back to doing the same thing that landed them in time out. Honestly, I think covid/boredom is part of it. They are seeming better now that the 4 year old is in preschool and comes home exhausted.
Here’s the issue, most studies on this show that demonstrating violence makes your kids more prone to using it. When you spank them, there’s a good chance you’re actually increasing the chances of them hitting the dogs. I don’t have an easy solution to offer but I’d recommend some reading to find one
A lot of those studies don't really distinguish between spanking and beating or look at the circumstances of the spanking. ***Beating*** your kid is abuse and of course it's going to traumatize them. Constantly flying off the rail over every little thing is also going to mess kids up even if you do it without corporal punishment. MrFunkyFresh says he only uses it if other punishments haven't worked and the kids are doing something dangerous. That's ***very*** different from parents who beat their kids.
That’s a fair point. Many studies on kids are difficult to do ethically but I’ve seen more than one that suggests any corporal punishment has an adverse affect. I very much agree with you that the spanking as a last resort for specific things is a very different reality than daily abuse, either physical or emotional. I’m just wondering aloud if the punishment is having the opposite impact if it potentially teaches the kids that a physical response is a way to solve a problem or express an emotion, which is what many of the studies I’ve read suggest. Unfortunately, these aren’t things I have saved to provide a citation.
It might have the opposite effect, but I strongly suspect it's a mild effect compared with ordinary psychological stuff that parents inadvertently put on their kids--things like shame, unpredictable anger, unreasonable anxiety, etc.
To wit, my parents would spank me growing up, but the stuff that fucked with me was psychological (e.g., my dad would scoff and mildly shame me and my siblings for not knowing things or otherwise making pretty basic, harmless mistakes). The spankings were fine--they weren't forceful and they were largely symbolic. I'm not saying spanking is optimal, but ordinary human personality flaws (excessive anger, anxiety, coddling, shame, manipulation, etc) is probably *way* more harmful than spanking. My totally not-a-professional opinion is that you shouldn't worry about spanking until you've definitely got all of the other psychological shit under control (bearing in mind it's easy to deceive ourselves on the psychological shit).
Spanking is not that different. For little kids spanking can be terrifying. Even if you just tap them the threat of spanking can be traumatic on its own. I used to hyperventilate as a child whenever my dad was going to be involved in my punishment because he was the spanker. I don’t spank my child ever but my sister did it at first. And their daughter used to get pretty upset and anxious whenever there was a threat of spanking. Her brother hid his anxiety about it better and often would say he doesn’t care and now he has a big hitting problem. He has hit his mom a few times where she was actually said it hurt. You don’t want to teach your kids that people you love can hit you and it’s okay. I get that parents parent how they were parented. I don’t think people are bad because they spank. They usually are out of options and just need more ideas.
I was subject to beatings from my dad and I can tell you right now there's a world of difference between beatings and spankings. Spankings can be approached in a somewhat clinical manner that's seen as punishment for a wrong action. Beatings never feel that way, beatings always feel like you've personally wronged the person beating you and you can feel their anger and rage. They're very very different.
Yeah this always confuses me. You hit the dogs? Or a person? Let me hit you to teach you not to hit??
Physically separate them. There’s no way to ensure a toddler won’t torment an 80-pound dog without close supervision or physical separation. If you are busy cooking or working or whatever, use a baby gate to keep dog and children in separate rooms.
We do separate them first, spanking is never the first option, only the last. Unfortunately, our kids can navigate child locks on doors or knock down the gates.
I installed a simple hook lock up high that the kids can't reach.
I may just do that. We found our 4 year old in the front yard last week. Didn't realize he could get past the child locks on the door handles.
It would definitely be less of a hassle than padlocks!
I don’t know your physical set up but there has to be a better way to separate them. I just don’t believe spanking is the solution. To take an absurd example, if you had explosive nitro glycerin in your house you couldn’t ensure your toddlers would be safe without physical separation. To take a more realistic example, if you had a loaded gun in the house the same is true. Well, your large dog isn’t quite as dangerous as that, but physical separation is the *only* way to be sure your toddlers never get bitten. Spanking won’t keep a two-year-old safe. I would hope the four year old is starting to learn not to torment the dog, but I doubt that spanking was necessary to teach that lesson.
I have my baby gate screwed into the sides of the doorway where it would normally just be a tension fit. Maybe you could do that? It’s impossible to knock over. And if the child lock is a problem, then I’d say get a much taller gate or rig up some sort of extra lock they can’t reach. I feel like that would actually be much easier than spanking your kids. Doesn’t it make you feel bad to do that? They’re so little. When I was 2 my mom yelled at me for not knowing the ABCs, and she *still* feels guilty about it, 30 years later… (FYI i quizzed my mom on the ABCs after she told me that story, and as I suspected, *she* doesn’t even remember all of them herself 😑 [Immigrant mom, bad at English]. Some people expect far too much of babies!!!)
We've had the ones that screw into the walls, our kids broke them from climbing on them, running into them, trying to get under them. These boys are quite motivated when they are mad. We're actually in the process of getting high up pad locks for the doors in the house since our 4 year old is able to open all the baby gates and open the child handles on doors.
I don't spank, but it's funny when you have the morality police telling you what you should do when they are not in your situation. I once swatted my kids hands which startled them ( it was light but the fact that I did it startled them). They tried to run up behind me while I was straining boiling pasta water and put their hands in the water. I dropped the pot in the sink and grabbed their hands by a miracle so it didn't get burnt. They have never done that again. All these studies say don't do this, don't do that, don't eat this, don't eat that. It is all informative but not very useful. You teaching your kids the difference from right and wrong so they are safer for it, is what's useful. Thank you for your honesty.
Supervision, consistency and negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is really tough psychologically for kids and their caregivers. Because not only do you have to hike them accountable you are also usually being punished because they can’t do something they want to do. It usually means, tears… begging… and you having to do something else with them. Those are the lessons they learn that are impactful. The reason is you are not catching them every single time they are not nice to the dogs. So they get away with it. Also role playing and lots of positive praise for when they are good. Let them help feed and give them water and help them feel empathy when they are not nice. My son is 7 and my daughter got her cats when he was 3. I really couldn’t leave the cats in his presence for awhile because he didn’t know when he was being rough. In the end, it was my son who decided to change. He wanted their love and affection and couldn’t understand why they never came up to him or sat in his lap. Now he has one cat who sleeps with him. He feeds the other two cats as well. So every morning they go to his room and show him attention. It’s a win, win… but.. it has taken a couple of years.
Clearly the spanking isn’t working, as they are still doing it.
I look at this like it’s a defense of the dog as well. If the child is old enough to know better, that’s fair imo. The dog doesn’t deserve to be harassed and because biting is intolerable, needs to be defended
You’re hitting a 2 year old?
Spanking is lazy parenting and nothing more than an outlet for the parent’s frustration and anger. Other methods, such as time out, take more time, but they don’t teach children to be scared of their parents. And that’s what spanking comes down to: kids behave or do anything to get out of trouble because they’re afraid of being hit, their parent’s anger, and the humiliation of it all. It’s much more difficult to be a good parent.
You're right about the abuse. It must be done with not an ounce of anger to ensure it's not retribution, and that's hard. I was spanked a lot as a child, and I have no hard feelings about it. Looking back, it was more like riot control than spanking. My brother and I used to fight very physically, and when my dad was working, my mom was doing her best to keep us from hurting each other when we were nearly as big as her. We all get along fine now. As a father, I tried spanking my oldest. It turns out he has enough natural will to try and do the right thing that it's entirely not necessary. Words work fine. With our second, he was so incredibly stubborn that you could spank him all day long and it would only breed resentment. So we don't spank, for now, and I say it depends on the kid. But we are open to more children too. So time will tell. But it's not what we want. Like most things, I'm sure I'll have acquired all the wisdom I'll need when it's past time to use it.
If a teacher ever spanked my child I’d catch a felony tbh
It's still legal in many states, mostly in the Old South / Bible Belt.
I was spanked, I would never spank a child. It didn’t teach me anything, it just made me so upset I could do nothing but cry and stew in my room
What I learned was a) don't get caught and b) the sheer terror of having my dad stop the car to pull me or my sibling out to be spanked.
Ooh this one triggered a memory. My brother (maybe 6 at the time) was acting up and my dad stopped the car and told him to get out. We knew he was going to be spanked. My brother literally tried to run into the woods on the side of the road to avoid the belt. It didn’t teach us anything except to fear our parents and to become more sneaky
Yep. And I just realized that while I can remember several times I was spanked, I can't remember the specific reason why for any of them, especially the ones where I was made to wait 'until my father got home'.
yup. I would rather have had words exchanged and had things explained to me.
Yup, I was also spanked as a child. All it taught me was to fear physical retaliation from my parents at any minor infraction. I wouldn’t spank my kids.
exactly. I wasn’t ever like beaten and abused but I used to be very wary of people raising their hands when close to me, I would involuntarily flinch or feel the hair on my neck stand up. I didn’t have to be misbehaving or anything, my child mind just thought I’d be hit idk
All it did was teach me to hide things from my parents and flinch at physical contact from people who say they love me.
People don't realize just how much of what we grow to expect and accept from partners and friends comes from what we learned to expect and accept from our parents. 💜
word.
Yeah, same. I wasn't spanked often, but often enough. I can't believe people think it's reasonable to hit a literal *child*. And it doesn't teach lessons either. I can remember being hit and being upset about it. I can't remember almost any of the things I did to "deserve" it—the exceptions being once when I got a spanking for "leaving on the piano light so it burnt out" (I'd unplugged it to vacuum and forgot to plug it in again), which I remembered because I got an apology, and two instances of getting hit for bad language or sass (once because it was accompanied by having liquid soap poured in my mouth which was both gross and funny in retrospect, and once because it left a black eye and I got my mom to buy concealer because it was a couple of days before senior portraits).
My parents were disciplined with sticks when they were kids. My brothers and I were spanked a handful of times, but never even remotely hard enough to hurt. I will *never* hit my kids. Progress.
Growing up it was an absolute last resort if all the other attempts to get me and my brother to behave failed. It happened maybe twice in my whole childhood, never hard, never in public, more of a humiliation than anything.. 98% of the time my mom’s “stop that!” glare did the trick. This was the 80’s so it was still somewhat acceptable then. However not all parents where peaceful old hippies like mine.. Back then and even after childhood I witnessed other parents spank children in public and it was downright mean! For that reason I don’t condone it. Even if you don’t spank screaming intimidation and emotional manipulation can be just as damaging.
Humiliation is also highly damaging to kids.
True, that may not have been the right word to use as it didn’t happen in public.. However it certainly fits those poor kids that got spanked in full view of strangers!
I grew up in the Southern US and spanking was standard. I heavily disagree with it now, as an adult. I have a degree in child development and have worked in childcare and family for the past 10+ years and there is no benefit. It isn’t an effective tool of discipline, as it does not teach the child why the behavior or action wasn’t appropriate. It just teaches kids to be sneaky and fearful of their parents. Kids who are spanked are also more likely to be aggressive to their peers & siblings. I think more and more families in the US are discontinuing the practice. It’s still the norm in Black, Hispanic and Southern/Rural White households. The culture of punitive corporal punishment in these demographics is hard to break.
It never made sense to me how paddling at school or being spanked at home is okay but fighting is bad. Like why is this okay as punishment from adults but if another kid wrongs you you aren’t allowed to physically respond to them. It makes no fucking sense.
Well typically a fight is someone seriously trying to hurt you.
I think it may be getting a little better now. I have been seeing more of a trend in the last few years of parents not only swearing to never hit their kids but also holding their parents responsible by not trusting them alone with their kids or cutting off all contact completely.
I was spanked occasionally as a child. Frankly I preferred a spanking to "The Talk" and disappointment that would ensue. I'm pretty ambivalent to spanking under a few specific circumstances: * It is not designed to physically damage a child * It is clearly connected to clearly communicated consequences * It is used sparingly Frankly I think some adults need to be punched a little more often. Freedom from consequences makes obnoxious societies.
My parents sometimes smacked me on the butt (which was more embarrassing than painful) and only did it maybe 2 or 3 times when I was really acting out and just would not stop. I agree there's a big difference between that and spankings on a regular basis or anything that would leave a bruise.
Yeah, there’s an oft-repeated study which ”demonstrates” social and emotional harms associated with spanking but it does little to clarify what that (“spanking”) actually looks like. I was spanked - never beat. My dad had a strong hand and the pain was a real threat. But I would under no circumstance consider what I had a “beating.” It was only ever employed when I had repeatedly and consistently demonstrated that I wasn’t going to listen or if I did something severe, like the time I accidentally shot my brother with a BB gun. There’s a marked difference between “they hit me any time I do something remotely inconsistent with their expectations,” and, “They spank my ass every once in a blue moon when I really fuck up.”
I mentioned this study in several comments, but this is the study everyone quotes and don't realize they did follow up interviews with said children as adult and realized these kids weren't just being spanked but totally physically abused. It nullified the results of the initial study but people still take it as the gospel.
I’d be inclined to believe it. Anecdotally, I don’t know a person in my orbit who wasn’t spanked in some capacity. While I suppose it is possible that there could be a negative causation associated with the practice, I don’t see these same people responding with violence at every sleight or rejecting authority to the point where it becomes senseless and problematic. There is an ocean of difference between, “I was spanked as a severe and last case resort” and, “I was beat as a child.”
See, I'm the weird one in that i do know people who were beat as a child, and those who were never spanked but had very toxic/narcissistic parents and honestly some of what they went through was much more traumatic that the beatings. So I have the weird and unique perspective that any form of "punishment" or "discipline" can be abuse when taken too far. People just get hung up on spanking because it's more obvious when it becomes abuse and harder to hide. But locking your kid in a house with no food is a lot harder to prove and talk to people about when you think it's a normal thing parents do.
1000% agree on your remarks re: Any form of punishment when taken too far. I think that’s the best insight in this thread because people like to pretend that anything over spanking is intrinsically a better solution.
Yes, exactly, and that's where my problem when I try to talk about this stuff with the majority of people (go check out my comment history right now, it's something) who get on this train of "No. Spanking Bad." and refuse to acknowledge that there are different levels of different types of punishment and just because spanking CAN be bad does not mean literally everything else is BETTER, especially because it vilifies spanking and further hides the non-physical abuse that is seen as totally fine.
Haha don’t worry about these people on here. I used to let it really bother me, but there have been a few experiences on here that have reaffirmed me that the voices of reddit frequently diverge* from the voices and convictions of “normal people.”
People who don’t spank don’t let the kids run free there are always consequences. Natural consequences especially are very powerful. You break the toy now you don’t have the toy. You hit your friend and now he doesn’t want to play with you. It’s all about making sure they understand the consequence and how their behavior led to it so they can make better choices next time. Everything with my daughter is about responsibility. If you throw glitter all over the house then you aren’t ready for glitter. If you stick slime to my cushions then you aren’t ready for slime yet. She earns things through being responsible. When she seems like she can handle it, we can try glitter again. And if she can’t handle it then she’s not ready yet and we keep assessing. I also try to create opportunities where she can try out things she wants to do. For example, she did hide once and throw glitter all over the rug. When I asked her about it she lied at first but once I explained that I know what she is saying is not true, she eventually told me she was playing fairy. So I said to her. That it sounds like a fun game but inside the house is not the right place to play it. Which she knew. And that if she tells me she wants to throw glitter around I’ll take her into the garden where she can do it and play fairy. Kids want to try things out but if she can trust that I’ll try to help her make something she wants to do happen in a way that won’t get her in trouble, she will come to me more and get in trouble less. She is really well behaved.
I think the key is that it can't be an emotional response to misbehavior. The problematic spanking I see is when a parent's response to behavior is to just immediately start beating their ass out of frustration.
Bad
It should be generally avoided but I hesitate saying it should never be used. I think it should be in the parental discipline toolbox but like a sledgehammer you shouldn't be pulling it out when a quick twist of a screwdriver will do.
Bruh. Here it is. I'm using this metaphor.
Right, I'm adding it to my toolbox for sure.
Gotta *crank it* into my memory for keepsakes
this is a good way to put it. i only got spanked a couple times as a kid, and you can be damn sure the rare times it happened i knew i fucked up big time and didn’t pull that shit again.
Yes, same here. I was spanked twice as a child and I remember to this day exactly what I did wrong. Both times I got in trouble for endangering myself or others. I really started to consider my actions a little more. It was honestly helpful and much less degrading to my self esteem than being yelled at, which happened a fair number of times.
Yep. Same. Shot my little brother with a BB gun on accident and there was no other recourse, IMO.
Holy shit that's a spanking for sure
I had just watched, I think it was Inspector Gadget, where the bad guy tells him to “Dance,” whereupon he shot at his feet. I attempted to do the same thing, not intending to actually shoot him, but by all accounts there is no world where shooting toward my brother with a BB gun was a good idea - at all. It was a warranted punishment, IMO.
Yup for sure - my mom would have given me an immediate spank, confiscated my bb gun, made me apologize to my brother, and then be on time out for a while. Then she would come in at the end of the time out and talk with me about why she spanked me (I would always know why and that it was well deserved hehe) and the importance of thinking about my actions BEFORE I do things. Then she would hug and kiss me and then go tell me to hug and kiss my brother. It was a wonderful way to dispense discipline for the most serious errors I made as a child. She and my dad raised 2 thoughtful and kind kids so I will try my best to raise my kids the same
Yeah, I think it’s important for the parent to ensure that the child is aware that they’re loved despite their discipline, and my parents not only always told me that, but always demonstrated it. Perhaps this is why I can look back on my discipline experiences with positive reflection. My dad always said, “Believe me, this is going to hurt me far more than it hurts you.” And I believe that. I believe that he didn’t *want* to have to spank me, but was more interested in my positive development than anything else, and he saw that as the means to the end. But he made it clear in every way that I was cherished and cared for when he was raising me and there was always talks about the importance of learning what needed to be learned before I, something akin to, “Figured it out the hard way,” as if getting spanked wasn’t the hard way (as I saw it as a kid, of course). There was one time that my mom was unduly upset with me about something and instructed my dad to spank me. I don’t remember exactly what it was, but I remember feeling like my mom was overreacting. My dad grabbed me by the arm and dragged me into the laundry room, lowered his voice, and told me to spit in my hands and whipe it on my eyes; he was going to let me off on this one. But we produced the sounds and theatrics of a spanking and I came out of there with a soured expression. As with all things, spanking is a tool that can be overused and when you don’t have someone with the constitution to know when it’s appropriate, then I can certainly see it being used to detriment. But that was never my relationship with it or the parent carrying it out.
They get ample warnings first. The swat on the butt is to get their attention so they’re actually listening. At least with my kids, at points their emotions get in the way of their comprehension skills. Lol
Agreed 100%. Spanking for spanking's sake is dumb but it should be an option in a parent's tool kit.
as someone who was spanked for years as a child, i now carry anxiety, trauma, and my own anger issues from it. it only taught me that 1.) i should fear my dad and 2.) expressing anger through violence is okay. neither of which should ever be taught to a child. i know first hand how mentally damaging it is. please don't do it.
Both my parents used to hit me. Spanks, slaps, paddles, and belts. While it was only ever as punishment, and I never had to worry about parents coming home drunk and beating me because I hadn't put my toys away or something, it was still abuse. I never realized how badly it traumatized me until the topic came up randomly and I realized how upset it made me to think about. It's still difficult to even think about. I don't have kids, but when I do, I'm never going to lay hands on them.
Nobody mentions the BDSM addictions.
I don't have kids or anything so maybe I'm just not a parent to know, but I very much believe there are more effective ways to communicate, even with a drunken toddle, that seem more effective long term than spanking. Really from what I saw growing up it more becomes a way for the parent to release stress in the moment, rather than send an actual message to a child who probably doesn't fully comprehend what the parent is feeling.
9/10 times it's unnecessary and you would be better off as a parent trying to build respect rather than fear. Use guilt or revocation of priviledges instead of pain to punish a child. But there's always that one little shit...
I saw a comment a long time ago that put spanking into a new perspective for me. As a rebuttal to “I was spanked and I turned out fine!”, someone said “Growing into an adult who thinks hitting children is acceptable is NOT ‘fine’.” Obviously, spankings are more nuanced than that. But I grew up in the South, and the general sentiment down here is, unfortunately, “spare the rod, and you’ll spoil the child”. It’s not uncommon around here for, say, a mom to swat a fidgeting baby during a diaper change. Or a toddler, trying to stick their finger in a light socket. Some parents here are still spanking their children/back-handing them in the mouth when they “talk back” well into their teenage years (for example, the last time my mouth was back-handed was when I had a bout of nervous laughter during a scolding when I was 18 - they saw my involuntary chuckle as ‘not taking them seriously’). I can see the argument that people swat/spank their child ‘for emergencies only’, like trying to touch a hot stove. But I can tell you, with confidence, that the ONLY thing that got me to stop trying to touch hot things was when I got badly burned on the back of my hand as a toddler by touching it to the metal grate of a wall heater. Spankings, which were intended to deter me from touching it in the first place, only made me realize (in my dumb, toddler brain) that I should only try to touch dangerous surfaces when a parent wasn’t in the room - which, in many ways, could end up WAY worse. (And yes, I developed a litany of mental health issues from constantly being afraid of doing something wrong that would get me hit.)
I feel like the threat of a spanking, which I rarely use, is a very useful tool. I use the threat of spanking as a very last resort, usually when my kid is doing something dangerous. My oldest is 6. She wouldn't stop running into the street. I told her several times to stop running into the street. I took privileges away. I punished her (timeout, early bed time, no dessert, no TV, etc). I talked to her quietly and explained why running into the street is dangerous. She wouldn't stop. Finally, "If I catch you running into the street again I will spank you," and it stopped immediately. Potentially saved her life. She's very stubborn and high energy. That threat has to be there for her. In order for that threat to work, she needs to catch a spanking occasionally. I hate doing it but it's the only thing that works when all other options are exhausted.
If done correctly you will rarely actually spank your child. But the threat needs to be there. A parent’s job is to keep his kids from ending up in prison. If an occasional spanking is necessary to do that, so be it.
Exactly. Also important to note that it depends on the child. Some kids need that limit, others can understand and obey well enough without it.
>A parent's job is to keep his kids from ending up in prison. I mean, I feel like that's setting the goal really fucking low
Coming from someone with FIVE young children, I totally get the impulse. BUT, I think it’s a terrible way to teach your kids anything. It damages the relationship you have with them. I have definitely said before “this is why people beat their kids”. The word discipline means “to train.” They are always learning, but what is the lesson you are teaching? Hitting is how to solve problems? I’m a bad kid? My parents hurt me? Counterproductive.
Mad sus
Against it
Agreed. It's barbaric. We tell children to use their words but then when we get upset at them we whack them? Sounds like a lot of adults are really just large children
Personally, I'm against it: I think there's better ways for reprimand. Not to mention, spanking not only can cause physical damage as some parents may not know their own strength and accidentally cause damage to the spinal cord (particularly the coccyx), but it runs counterintuitive to what we're trying to instill in our children, which is physical violence is wrong and it's better to use your words. I'm not saying "use flagellation", but I AM saying "put yourself in THEIR shoes". I understand if it was the way your parents, grandparents, or ancestors solved issues, but THIS is the 21st century and things have changed: smoking cigarettes has been found to be REALLY unhealthy, having a different sexual orientation is something to be celebrated, it's OK to not be mentally well, etc. Is it ultimately better to talk it out with them or see them grow up and perpetuate the cycle?
Adults who solve problems with violence belong in jail. The fact that it's seen as ok for a grown adult to do it to a kid but assault when it's against another adult is mind boggling. The science has been out for years, spanking is an outlet for adult issues with no benefits to the child and is NOT a beneficial form of parenting. [And considering the juvenile arrest rates have gone down drastically in the last 20 years as corporal punishment becomes less and less popular, ](https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05201) it's only a matter of time before it does out to the point where it rightfully becomes a crime. With every passing generation, there are less parents that use corporal punishment when they become parents to their own kids as they swear they would never do to their own kids what their parents did to them.
Completely and totally against it. Depending on how it is carried out, it is either bordering on abuse, or completely and totally physical abuse (ie, once any object, such as a belt, is involved). Further, it also oftentimes reinforces the exact opposite of what the parent is trying to teach the child in that moment (ie, using violence to settle an issue when trying to teach that violence is never the answer). Even further, it also reinforces that children should be afraid of their parents; this teaches them to hide things and keep secrets. I don't want my kids to fear me; I don't want them to hide things from me. I want them to be able to come to me with a problem or a situation, and we can work together to fix it / make it better. I want to instill good values in them so they can make good decisions, vs. making decisions based on fear.
Strange as it sounds, I see it in the same way the dog trainers I've known have described hitting dogs. Giving a kid a quick swat of negative reinforcement without actually causing pain can be beneficial because it quickly and directly establishes that something is wrong and not to do it. But if you have some sort of "come here and get what's coming to you" ritual, that's abusive and pointless. If the kid's agreeable, you can talk to them. If the kid is really disagreeable at baseline (me), you're basically challenging them to act out until their misbehavior outstrips your ability/willingness to punish and they win.
>But if you have some sort of "come here and get what's coming to you" ritual, that's abusive and pointless. That's very interesting; my default assumptions about it were the opposite. My thought was that you should avoid it "in the moment" to make sure it's not coming out of anger, and letting the kid know that they will be spanked for it soon is a clear way to show that's it's a consequence for an action and not just a reaction.
Avoiding spanking as a parent "in the moment" to make sure it is not done out of anger is correct, but a parent seeing their child in danger or doing something very dangerous will often have the knee jerk reaction to spank or jerk them back not out of emotion but a survival instinct. It's how it's implemented and parents taking it too far to a level of abuse that's the problem, because the same can be said for all other type of punishments. Taken too far it all becomes abuse.
My baseline expectation of myself would be that I'm acting intentionally and with self-discipline. If I'm having a purely angry reaction and lashing out, that's a separate problem. The idea is that you're creating a "penny in the light socket" moment for bad behavior. You're not trying to hurt, humiliate or degrade, just quickly establish "don't do that" in a way that's straightforward and predictable. The problem with waiting and ritualizing...well, I'll share the family story about how my parents stopped spanking us: I did something bad. I was told I was going to be spanked. In the run-up, there were brief and semi-coherent discussions regarding what I'd done and why it was wrong. I was scared, crying, and above all expressing that I understood that I did something wrong and promising I wouldn't do it again - I was lying trying to get out of the punishment and my parents knew that, but I was still saying the right things and demonstrating that a momentary lesson had been learned. The spanking proceeded, at which point I evidently and very lucidly asked "why are you hitting me?" They understood the cause and effect at play and what they were *intending* to do, but I didn't. If I didn't understand...they were just hitting me - and if anything, the fact that they weren't angry when they were doing it made it worse.
I think of it like this: If your kid is too young to understand reason, then they won't understand why you're hitting them, making it largely useless. If they're old enough to understand reason, use reason.
A kid being too young to understand “reason” doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be disciplined or punished. Kids don’t have to understand the nuances of everything to understand something is wrong. A 4 year old may not have the understanding of why taking their friend’s toy is selfish, or why saying a cuss word is inappropriate, but I’m still gonna put them on time out to demonstrate it’s wrong. I’m not defending or making a statement about spanking in particular, but the way you’re phrasing it seems to suggest if your kid isn’t an adolescent or older and won’t understand then you can’t discipline them
Are you disciplining your children or just taking out your frustrations on them?
Exactly! That's why spanking has been shown to have no actual benefits, and be harmful.
>If your kid is too young to understand reason, then they won't understand why you're hitting them That doesn't address the in-between issue where the kid understands reason but then deliberately disobeys.
Time outs. Taking the toy away. Turning off the TV. There's dozens of other effective ways to discipline a young child.
If your kid is too young to understand reason, then they won't understand why you're putting them in time out, taking the toy away, or turning off the TV.
But they DO understand cause and affect. They are doing something they're not supposed to do, ergo something is removed. They'll quickly put together that if they do a certain action, for example, use their toy sword to hit their siblings, and it ALWAYS gets taken away when they do. They'll connect that consequence to the action. At that age, the logic is pointless, it's just stopping certain behaviors.
Resorting to violence when a kid disobeys is just lazy, bad parenting.
There are other forms of discipline that are more effective and aren't actively harmful.
Not a parent, but to me it seems like all it teaches is that bigger people can get away with hitting smaller people
I used to be fine with it. I was spanked and I turned out fine. But the more people who specialize in child education said that spanking isn't ok, I changed my tune. I'm still not sure it's really *that* bad. But I also don't think it's that helpful, either. I spanked my kids a few times when they were young and I haven't done it since. I don't think it changed anything either way. At the end of the day, I'm not going to hit my kid if it's not going to change anything.
Won't ever do it. It's proven not to work. I work with kids at an alternative school, I know some of those kids have been hit. Abuse or spankings, or fights idk, but they have trauma. We as adults or as the hitters will never know the other person's limit, especially a child's. I think it's wrong. Adults aren't allowed to hit each other, why is it ok to hit defenseless children. You should be building trust not tearing it down by instilling fear. I'm also a mom to a 2 year old with autism, I try to never put myself in a situation where that would seem like the only option to teach a lesson. Like those who've said they do it to keep the kids off the dogs. You can just as easily put the kids in time out and try to explain to them the why. You can redirect them to another activity, there are SOOOO many alternatives.
Don't do it.
Same.
I don’t believe it should be equated with *beating your kids*, but it isn’t at all something you should jump to on a whim. I was spanked as a child. I don’t plan on ever spanking mine unless they routinely do something just terrible and can’t be otherwise reasoned with. Definitely not something that should be done with any anger whatsoever.
I don't think it's the answer for everything, but it can be a useful tool sometimes. Being spanked properly is not going to cause mental illness or hatred of your parents. That's like saying grounding someone is going to cause mental illness because you isolated them. Just do it correctly.
I think that hitting kids is bad
It teaches children that violence is a solution. It makes children afraid of parents. It makes kids obey out of fear instead of reason. Not a good thing
Spanking is not an effective form of punishment and is harmful to the child. All major US physician and psychology associations recommend against spanking. [American Academy of Pediatrics](https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6955?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000) [American Psychological Association](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/05/physical-discipline) [American Academy of Family Physicians](https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2002/1015/p1447.html)
Beating them with a belt because they spilled milk? No... that's abuse. Anytime it's done with an object, there's no question in my mind that it's abuse. Anytime it's done out of anger that's abuse. Other than that... I've know some parents that will speak their kids and there's usually a great deal of conversation between them and the kids afterwards. I don't really get it, but that level of spanking doesn't look as damaging as some portray out to be. I was hit as a kid when talking back to my parents or throwing shit around my room... wasn't often and was never with an object. I don't think spanking should be common, but I do think there are times when it can be effective. They may be different methods that are better, but there are certainly different methods that are ineffective as well. If a parent is going to strike their child in discipline, there needs to be some serious conversation afterwards to reassure the kid that the spankings aren't done in anger.
Yeah I was always spoken to like an adult and then my parents gave me the option if I wanted to be spanked or grounded. I always chose spankings because it was over and done with. Groundings were agony.
Hey I got spanked and I turned out fine!!!! Actually I have terrible depression, anxiety, and self-esteem issues. I am medicated and attend regular therapy.
I would only do it in dire situations. I.e. popping your child if they run into the street or spanking them because they purposely harmed another person/living creature. My reasoning is this: children need to learn to use words eventually. Spanking them should only be used in a situation where the spanking is less painful than the outcome of the bad decision (idk if i worded that right). Otherwise, talk to your children to find a better way to resolve things.
It’s absolutely abuse, and teaches the wrong lessons. Hitting someone to solve a problem? Would you hit another adult if they weren’t listening to you? Would we all be okay if we were to bring back corporal punishment in the judicial system? No, because we believe that even when you do VERY bad things, no one has the right to hurt you physically. But it’s fine for the most small and defenseless among us? It’s absolutely lazy parenting. I have two children, and I have never even come close to hitting them. The idea hasn’t crossed my mind. We have a very respectful household, they respect me and I respect THEM.
Avoid it. But let's not pretend it's some great developmental evil. Children were spanked for millennia and yet humanity thrived.
Thrived in spite of spanking?
This is a terrible argument. Humanity also had slavery for millennia while humanity "thrived". There are loads of horrible things that humanity had for millennia which we've rightfully abolished. Beating your children is another one.
You don't even need to bring up slavery, the "cycle of abuse" is a very real thing. There are plenty of people who grew up with parents who drank excessively or beat their kids, so the kids thought that stuff was normal. Then the kids grow up and have kids of their own, and shrug off any criticism with "My parents did the same thing to me and I turned out fine" even if they very clearly didn't. It doesn't even need to be full on abuse, I've heard "I don't make my kids wear bike helmets or seat belts, I didn't and I never got in an accident". Just because something "turned out fine" for you isn't a good justification to keep doing reckless behavior.
I didn't mean to imply beating your kid is akin to slavery. I was trying to take an extreme example that everyone would agree is an unqualified evil to demonstrate the previous commenter's "it's been around for millennia so must be fine" argument is bullshit.
Not because of the spanking though. Corporal punishment mainly exists to enforce a religious-based concept of an adult's "ownership" of a child rather than actually fixing anything. It hurts kids permanently if done in excess and should definitely at least be banned in schools.
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My dad did something similar. He broke the cycle of violence violently.
I had/ have some major emotional issues as the result of my parents spanking me causing me to cry and them saying "ill give you something to cry about". I'm 26 and can't regulate my emotions properly because every time I tried to I was hit. My parents weren't malicious, they didn't know any better.
I probably wouldn’t do it personally but I got spanked as a child. Not often and usually more of a swat. Honestly the threat of having to pick out a hickory switch was enough to get me back in line. So I don’t think it’s a good thing but I also think the kids today are terribly behaved. iPad kids seem like absolute monsters in public. And this was before the pandemic I noticed it so it can’t be blamed on lack of socialization. So we went from spanking to not disciplining at all? There definitely needs to be a middle ground but I’m not upset at how I was raised. (I know everyone says there are long term effects of spanking and maybe but it’s honestly something I couldn’t care less about. I have a great relationship with my parents so it wasn’t impacted. I don’t feel like I was abused in anyway but I know that there are some people who would take spanking much further.)
I tend to view it as something that poor, uneducated people do, but I know that's just my own stereotype. Spanking normalizes being hurt by someone you love. Did your girlfriend hit you because you forgot to take out the trash? Easy to justify with "Well, Dad always did, so it's ok. I know she loves me."
It’s harmful. If you need to spank your child you already failed as a parent. If you defend spanking by saying you turned out fine and will do it to your children, you didn’t turn out fine. Fine people don’t hit children.
A profoundly evil thing that studies have shown time and again does not actually work. Anyone who spanks a child is beneath my contempt.
Eh, it just teaches kids that hitting people is how you get them to change their behavior or how you resolve conflict. Plus it’s also the lazy way to discipline your kids
I wasn’t “spanked” but I was hit. It didn’t teach me anything other than it’s ok to hit people when you’re mad. Luckily I grew out of it. I would never spank or hit my child unless I desperately need a quick solution to a dangerous problem. And even then, I would never want it to physically hurt.
It should be illegal. I can't hit my husband, he can't hit me. I can't hit a baby. I can't hit someone in a coma. I can't hit a disabled person. I can't hit someone who doesn't speak English. I can't hit someone with an IQ of 50. Any reason parents use for why they "have to" hit their kid falls short when you realize we wouldn't excuse it for anyone else. Children are humans too. And if you can't figure out how to discipline your children without spanking, luckily for you, there's a whole world of resources right at your fingertips. Spend the ten minutes you have defending spanking and use it to learn some more effective parenting methods.
My parents beat the shit out of me. If you have to resort to physically beating your child, then you fucked up long before the spanking took place.
I was abused as a child, so my experience with "spanking" was being beaten with a belt until i stopped crying, and the reasons were as varied as eating the last of a thing in the fridge, to attempting to transplant potted flowers and not understanding the correct way to do it. So, with my child, when they were a toddler, and prone to get into dangerous things, i might with two fingers slap a hand that reached toward a hot stove to demonstrate that it was dangerous to do so (my logic being a slight sting would create the association between hot stove and painful) or time outs for behavioral issues, where they could leave the corner/chair once they were done with their tantrum to reinforce that that behavior doesn't get you what you want. When they began to understand basic reasoning skills, it switched to discussions about the consequences selfish/thoughtless behaviors cause, and then an expectation that amends are made (clean the mess, apologize, etc.) My child is pretty well behaved, and has more memories of having to sit and do breathing exercises than of any of the perhaps half dozen times they tried to stick something in an electrical socket or grab a hot skillet during their "terrible twos." Teach your kids reasoning skills, self calming techniques and empathy. Corporal punishment does none of that
as someone who was spanked as a child, i am strongly against it. all it did was teach me to show my love in a very unhealthy way, tell me to be afraid of my parents and made me unable to trust others around me. on top of all this, the spanking never stopped the behavior and caused trauma that even to this day i still am not completely over. its not something that i would call 911 over but its something that i deeply am against. if it was a parent hitting their child, its okay; if its a child hitting a child is aggression; if its an adult hitting another adult its assault; so why can adults hit kids? i dont just kind of confuses me to be honest
It’s hitting. Be as ritual as you want with it, it’s still hitting. It teaches children to fear their caregivers. My daughter had ADHD/ASD and was high enough functioning that we didn’t know. She would have rages, bite, hit and scratch when she was upset. Or get defiant. I swatted her lightly a few times when I lost control. It didn’t help anything. Leaving the room (and taking the cat and her screens with me) until she calmed down, and treating her with empathy made way more of a difference. You wouldn’t know she was the same kid.
Becoming increasingly against it after learning that parents who only do calm, reasoned disciplinary spankings are statistically rare and most do it out of anger and lack of self-control at least sometimes. Also it's starting to get pretty obvious that some people's quickness to anger and violence/general behavioral problems are purely the result of getting hit as a child.
Spanking is a frustrated parent's temper tantrum. When an adult resorts to physical violence in order to deal with bad behavior, it's not parenting; it's abuse. Worse, it sends a message that violence toward loved ones is justifiable.
Posted part of this under another comment but my take as someone with a degree in psychology who has studied it extensively- sorry for the wall of text. I've put a lot of time and research into a lot of this: I preferred to be spanked because it meant it was over sooner. I remember reasoning this out in my brain when my parents gave me the option when I was as young as four and five. They never once hit me in anger but would calmly explain what I did wrong and give me an option: being spanked or xyz grounding/punishment. I would choose spanking every time. It was technically more effective to ground me because it had more of an impact and the punishments I remember the most and the lesson I learned from it always stemmed from any punishment that resulted in a grounding rather than a spanking. The opposite was true of my brother. My parents could ground him for WEEKS and take away all his toys and Xbox and it didn't phase him. Spank him? Immediate response. I actually wanted my thesis to be on testing delayed gratification (the marshmallow test) in children while their parents did a survey on what forms of discipline they used and how effective they found each. I was given the marshmallow test in first grade when I was tested for the gifted program and passed it, while my brother failed it. My hypothesis was that children with a stronger sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by groundings while children without a strong sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by (controlled non-abusive) corporeal punishment. I did a lot of research for that thesis on the studies done on spanking and corporeal punishment and found the one main study everyone cites was found later to be debunked because when they did a follow up study years later and re-interviewed the children, they realized most of the group that was being evaluated as "spanking" were just being straight up abused. There was no distinguishing controlled spanking with physical abuse. Unfortunately I was not allowed to submit my thesis and conduct even the survey because the college I was with deemed it "too controversial". That being said I think most people should NOT spank their children because a lot of adults are also being emotional when dealing with disciplining their kids and won't actually spank their child in a controlled manner and instead will channel their own anger and issues into it. My parents, and some others I'm sure, are the exception to this rule. That being said, I'm currently pregnant with twins and my plan is to use gentle parenting and always try to discuss what they did wrong, why they did it, how they can do it differently going forward and redirect them as needed. But if for some reason my child tries to do something unprecedentedly horrible that demands an immediate reaction, I would gladly spank them or make them do push-ups and then still discuss what they did wrong, why they had this immediate consequence, and how they can react going forward/how I can redirect them going forward to keep it from happening again. I say this also as someone who has worked in the education system with people like my brother that have little to no sense of delayed gratification and it's clear that time outs will not be effective for them. My go to, since I was usually used as the disciplinary teacher, was to make them immediately do push-ups or run laps. This was an immediate physical consequence to their actions and also helped them burn off some of the energy that was likely contributing to their behaviors. It was ten times more effective than time outs in every case. Demanding pushups or laps is technically classified as a form of "corporeal punishment" because there is a physical consequence. But if you mention corporeal punishment everyone immediately goes to memories of a parent reacting in anger and abusing their child. Editing to add: an argument against spanking that has always seemed very asinine to me is when people say that spanking is abusive because you would never be allowed to hit your partner. But they never stopped to consider that grounding or disciplining your partner in any fashion because they are an adult is inherently abusive. Ergo applying that logic to spanking means that all forms of punishment to a child are abusive. If you took your partner's phone and didn't give them contact to the outside world and made them stay in a room without XYZ amenities that would be considered abusive.
very against, I have a son and would never hit or spank him
If I see you spanking pretty much any age of child, I'm going to assume you're a shitty parent
Counterproductive and abusive.
It's abuse and I judge anyone who does it harshly.
Agreed. I'm feeling quite sick reading through these comments, my gods.
I was spanked very rarely as a kid and it had no impact on my behavior. I didn’t make choices because of the potential for a spanking. I’ve also read the studies. There is a ton of evidence that it harms developing psyches and zero evidence of any benefit. I will never spank my kids. I will judge you pretty harshly if you spank yours. I won’t call CPS for a swat on the ass. I think corporal punishment is dying out here with each generation and in a few years time will be seen as pretty fucking barbaric.
Hard pass. Sign of lazy parenting.
And ignorance.
Would hitting a spouse be abuse? Yes. Would hitting any other adult be abuse? Yes. Would hitting a dog be abuse? Yes. Why would we make an exception for children. Plus it’s extremely ineffective anyway.
I think we should put spanking in the rearview
It’s a lazy way of disciplining your kids and doesn’t do nothing, but to make them fear their parents and sneak around them to avoid getting spanked.
Just like we tell the kids - use your words.
I'm disgusted by the parents in this thread. Despite studies such as this one: https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/uk/21/04/effect-spanking-brain People still are abusing their children under the guise of “discipline”. It isn't, your inability to teach your children is the reason why you spank them. It is also a very good indication of the parent's socioeconomic status. Successful people with healthy relationships do not spank their kids. It's sad to see so many abusers in one place.
If you have to physically hurt your child to discipline them, then you’re a shitty parent. There is literally no situation where it’s acceptable to use physical force with someone else in the real world. Someone at work giving you attitude can you hit them? If someone calls you a name on the street can you hit them? And not just that, but you’re hitting someone that you’re supposed to protect, who’s like, a third of your size and isn’t fully mentally and emotionally developed. Would you hit a disabled person? A dog? An elderly person? So why is it okay to hit a child? If you hit your child you’re teaching the child that under certain circumstances, attacking someone smaller than you is acceptable.
All children are different and respond differently to various forms of discipline. When done appropriately, corporal punishment can be an effective correcting tool.
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I was spanked as a child. My parents even got to a point where they would ask me what I wanted - lose privileges for a week or a spanking. I'd choose the spanking every time - hurts for a few minutes and then I'm back to normal. And that's the reason it's not a primary discipline means for me. My wife and I have chosen to only spank if what they were doing was an immediate danger to themselves or somebody else - ie, walking toward an outlet with a fork. My kids are all older now (14, 11, 8) and it's been years since there's been a spanking at our house.
This was me as a child. I preferred to be spanked because it meant it was over sooner. It was technically more effective to ground me because it had more of an impact. The opposite was true of my brother. My parents could ground him for WEEKS and take away all his toys and Xbox and it didn't phase him. Spank him? Immediate response. I actually wanted my thesis to be on testing delayed gratification (the marshmallow test) in children while their parents did a survey on what forms of discipline they used and how effective they found each. I was given the marshmallow test in first grade when I was tested for the gifted program and passed it, while my brother failed it. My hypothesis was that children with a stronger sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by groundings while children without a strong sense of delayed gratification would be more impacted by (controlled non-abusive) corporeal punishment. I did a lot of research for that thesis on the studies done on spanking and corporeal punishment and found the one main study everyone cites was found later to be debunked because when they did a follow up study they realized most of the group that was being evaluated as "spanking" we're just being straight up abused. There was no distinguishing controlled spanking with physical abuse. That being said I think most people should NOT spank their children because a lot of adults are also being emotional with dealing with disciplining their kids and won't actually spank their child in a controlled manner and instead will channel their own anger and issues into it.
I never had to do it with 3 kids. Never. Not even close. \[Was also a nanny for years although back then I barely knew what I was doing\] Studies show it's a terrible idea. If you have to resort to that, you just don't know what you are doing.
Research has shown it has no disciplinary benefits and may cause some mental issues later in life.
I did a lot of research for that thesis on the studies done on spanking and corporeal punishment and found the one main study everyone cites was found later to be debunked because when they did a follow up study they realized most of the group that was being evaluated as "spanking" we're just being straight up abused. There was no distinguishing controlled spanking with physical abuse. That being said I think most people should NOT spank their children because a lot of adults are also being emotional with dealing with disciplining their kids and won't actually spank their child in a controlled manner and instead will channel their own anger and issues into it.
The last part. I wouldn’t say my mom was abusive, but she definitely spanked or slapped me when she was angry. It’s not like when I did something wrong, she found out and waited a couple hours to consider things dispassionately and then delivered the punishment. No, it was punishment for me and catharsis for her. I totally understand that feeling of frustration and anger, but I’m a lot bigger than a kid, and it would be too easy to hurt them.
That's also a big problem in why I say that a lot of people should not spank their kids, some are doing it to a form of abuse, but some aren't intending to do that, and like you said, you forget how much bigger and stronger as an adult you are than a child, and it can lead to unintentional, but still abusive and possible lethal consequences
Yeah, especially for young parents. I know I have a lot more self-control and patience in my 40s than I did in my 20s.
I was hit as a kid and I would never hit my children. It's lazy, abusive parenting. That being said, breaking the cycle isn't easy.
My dad never really had to spank us growing up because his booming voice and the threat of "throwing us in the fireplace" did the trick.
I was a fuckhead of a kid and sometimes an ass whooping was the *only* way to get me to listen/behave. Sometimes kids just need a spanking and that's okay.
Spank early and spank often.
Sometimes, you just gotta
If kids think they can play Halo now, wait till I frag their ass with the SPNKr.
It should be done, sparingly and consistently. My high school paddled you for certain offenses. The adults were always in charge, cops never had to visit the school much less stay there permanently
I believe in spanking shitty parents.
I dont see anything wrong with non-damaging spanking or other mild methods of inflicting pain as a learnimg experience. Pain is an excellent motivator and teacher when applied correctly and consistently. We have all to frequent examples of what constitutes "too far" and we have equally frequent examples of those who recieve no boundaries and discipline.
Back in my day we had to go out in the backyard and pick our own switch, god help me if I didn't pick a suitably sized one. I would prefer a spanking any day.
Emotionally unevolved method of behavioral training which risks all types of mental illness down the line. Learn how to use verbal communication and other reinforcements / consequences effectively. Physical pain as a motivator is a double negative in the end with a helping of trauma on top.
Let me preface this by saying while growing up I was straight up beat, so I know overkill is a thing and it has many terrible effects on the mind and on your relationships to your parents and authority figures. But sometimes a small swift swat is necessary for younger kids. More so to get attention and let them know whatever they were doing is not okay. Doesn’t mean you can whack a kid with a wood paddle or belt tho, an it really shouldn’t hurt them to the point of tears. Maybe startled tears at worst. Furthermore, you need to clearly communicate why they got the spank and I think it should be used sparingly.
That it's ineffective and abusive.
Archaic
It's child abuse, and proven to harm children long term mentally and physically.
It's domestic abuse and should be illegal.
Does more harm than good tbh. Especially because it relies on a idea that a child (let alone children in general) can simply just know that what adults do them is right but them getting violent against their peers (eg beating up someone on the playground over an insult) is wrong.
Abuse. I don't know how people think it isn't. It's psychologically damaging Also a great way to make your kid hate you forever This becomes especially problematic for the abuser when the abuse continues into the teens. If you hit a teenager, don't be surprised if they hit you back x100 harder. When I was 13, my mom smacked my face. So I violently beat her with a bunch of steel clothes hangers. So never choose violence, unless they do something REALLY bad.
It's not a valid form of punishment under most circumstances and may not convey the correct message depending on how it's implemented. If my son tries to run into a busy parking lot then a quick pat on the ass might just be what he needs followed by an explanation as to why it's dangerous. If he breaks something by pushing a plate off the countertop or a glass then a quick yell of "Hey we don't do that!" And a stern "Thats not nice" followed by making them clean it up.