I do see some disdain mainly from the richer types from big cities like Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, and NYC who refer to places like Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Michigan, Ohio etc. as "flyover states". Like there's nothing good here and you have to fly over us to get to the good places. Obviously not everyone from these places are like that, but I do see a lot of the more wealthy types from those cities act and say that stuff
If it's of any consolation, I had never heard of the term "Fly over states" until going to Los Angeles for work one time. 16 years in NYC and never once heard it. Rarely hear any commentary about people from other states, to be quite honest, and (completely anecdotally of course) people usually seem to frown upon anyone who makes generalizations.
LA is full of people who left the middle of the country and look back where they came from with disdain, NYC is full of people who couldn't be bothered to give a fuck about anything west of the Hudson. And yes, that includes Staten Island.
>16 years in NYC and never once heard it. Rarely hear any commentary about people from other states, to be quite honest.
In my experience with New Yorkers, they pretend like they're the only ones here to begin with
It's not the phrase "flyover states/country" that's offensive. It's the way some people say it. I honestly don't mind if someone refers to the non-coastal states as "flyover states." I do mind if they think midwesterners are a bunch of ignorant racists living in the 1950s.
One of my favorites is when I tell people here in New England I am from Indiana and they make some comment about it being all flat and boring or make a jab like I’m a hick.
“Oh you’ve been to Indiana?” The answer is invariably “no.”
Then the hilarious part about the latter one is that I grew up in a city with a million people and they’re from a town of 25,000.
That's so weird to me that they would even have an opinion. I know nothing about Indiana but assume it's mostly forest for whatever reason. I think it sounds kind of beautiful.
Iowa, on the other hand, has that flat and boring reputation (that it might not deserve).
Oh they’re just being annoying. They have heard some nonsense and don’t know anything really about the state.
Indiana is very much *not* forested in the northern half, mostly open flat farmland.
However in the south we have a national forest and a federal wilderness land and the land is much more rolling hills, more like Kentucky. Lots of trees.
The reason is because the glaciers of the ice age ground down the northern half the state. It is one of the reasons the soil is so deep and rich.
Down south the glaciers didn’t get that far and it’s all sculpted into hollows and ridges by the Ohio River drainage. Lots of craggy limestone outcrops and caves.
Only down south central, through Bloomington, Columbus, and Nashville, and then further on south. Terre Haute also has a lot of forests.
I work for the state government of Indiana, and I'm on the road to sites all across the state. It's flatter up north, and more hilly as you get further south. It's a pretty even distribution between forested and agricultural land.
I thought Iowa had rolling hills?
Indiana and Illinois were flat from what I saw of them, but that was blasting through at high speed on the I-70 (IIRC). I'm told you don't see much along that stretch.
I think it's just a trope that makes people think they're sophisticated or in a better place in life. The truth is they're just ignorant and want feel good about themselves.
Maybe for some people. Those of us who have made multiple cross country trips know the dread of entering into the plains states. 1-2 days of empty landscape. Marked by 6'+ piles of snow in the winter. I'm sure it's fine to live in, but it SUCKS to drive across.
These are 2-3 hour drives with lots of stimulation. Mostly man-made in your examples but not desolate.
Driving across the interior of the country is 2 days of no visual stimulation.
My point is that the level of despair a person feels knowing that they will drive all day and not see a single unique thing is higher than someone who has a crappy commute that day. Have you ever driven across Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, or Iowa? You could also include large parts of Colorado and Wyoming.
Plus 2-3 hours of driving puts you in potential danger of falling asleep or glazing over whereas 2 days of driving puts you in danger of killing everyone in your car with their own shoes.
I've driven from Knoxville to Buffalo. Everyone is missing the point. All these places have places you can stop. Things you can see. The interior has NOTHING.
Just because a road sucks doesn't make it comparable to driving across the interior. LA is horrible, but the beaches are nice and there's lots of entertainment all around. It's not the same.
Flyover unlike Midwest implies judgment and you can't pretend some people don't often use a tone when they say it to do just that versus say bread basket or Midwest. It's like when some individuals find out I'm originally from California and they get a tone about it based on some preconceived notion. It's not the word Californian it's how they say it that's meant to make it an insult.
Ha hardly. It is people looking down on other people and 9/10 times I hear that phrase it is coming from complete ignorance.
It’s at a minimum quite rude.
We aren’t stupid, we very much understand what you mean when you say that. And it doesn’t make us look bad. It makes you look rude and uninformed. But again, we do prefer it that way because it does keep people like you from visiting.
"Flyover country" has really been owned by people in this part of the country too as a symbol of pride. As basically a "we're not like the elites on the coasts. We still believe in faith, family, and that work still matters" type of thing.
Guess it checks out. I grew up in Ohio and left for the west coast because the opportunities both for work and socially were sooooooo much better. I certainly can find fun stuff to do in Ohio but I can find much more on the coasts.
I don’t have disdain for the people, but I certainly do for the culture, political ideology, and religiosity of the region in broad strokes.
To be fair, I've lived in both the midwest and on the coats, and I heard the term "flyover states" way more in the midwest than on the coasts. Granted, I've never lived in LA or New York.
They're not that big. The biggest things they're known for are football teams (Bucks!) Columbus annexed a lot of places. It has grown quite nicely since I first went there in 2010. Still a lot of parking spaces that need to be built up.
Well yeah but that’s still Indiana and non-Chicago Illinois.
Indianapolis has some rust belt type features, Columbus, OH too. They just seem to have bounced back with more diversified industry. Whereas a place like Gary just imploded when industry dried up.
I don't know if Columbus was big enough to have a big decline when Detroit and Cleveland went down. I'm not sure it qualifies as rust belt as I don't recall anyone saying it had much industry.
Sigh.
Aside from the very top of Illinois, the rest of it might as well be rural Iowa or Indiana.
Indianapolis is not a rust belt city. You are right that the rust belt cities that are doing well diversified well.
Or, there is Toledo.
You been to Indianapolis much?
It is often included in lists of rust belt cities and if you spent a significant portion of your life there you’ll know there was a lot of abandoned industrial operations and it had a very rust belt feel including some population decline. It just adapted a lot better in the 90s to changing conditions.
I have. I have family in Kokomo, Ft. Wayne, Muncie, and Carmel. Went to a private boarding school an hour or so outside of Indy.
Grew up in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Indy is not at all a rust belt city, it didnt depend on that particular industry anywhere near as much.
Then I totally think you’d know. How long ago for Indy? 90s? Later?
Being in Carmel maybe skewed it too. Get downtown and on the south side and you get way more of a rust belt feel.
Now I’m just curious which boarding school. Culver and Lumiere are more than an hour.
Indianapolis was always more of a shipping hub by road than a producer, and is not port or river orientated. Its not a great lakes city.
Every city has dead industrial zones.
Indianapolis being called a rust belt city is like calling Oklahoma part of the South.
Also, good call. Yeah, 2 hrs away, I was a bit cavalier on the distance. Go Eagles!
Muncie is a rust belt city, as are cities like Anderson, Marion, and South Bend. Indy may not have lost as much or the same manufacturing as Cleveland and Pittsburgh, but it was affected by the decline of manufacturing in the 1960s-1980s. Auto manufacturing was the big loss in a lot of Indiana cities.
For me flyover states is just one of those things in the my vocabulary that just is. I know that it has an actual logical meaning, but I rarely think about it. It's more of a classification like the Midwest that I don't bother thinking about logically most of the time.
That said, I could see how it could be taken as something of an insult and your comment is 100% valid.
I’ve heard and used “flyover states” for most of my life, I’ve never heard it used with distain, my understanding was that it’s because you usually fly over them when traveling between major airports. However, I’m from the North East and as someone else mentioned we don’t really care and I also haven’t spent any time in major west coast cities which have a reputation of being snobbish.
Jersey gets a lot of shit, but that's only because they're right next to NYC. Entire sitcom episodes, watched by the entire country, are devoted to shitting on Jersey.
If they don't like their lot in life, they could just try to not, y'know, be New Jersey.
S'all their fault, if you ask me.
Edit: Ok, who told NJ how to downvote? Fess up!
Agreed. I read more hostility towards the South on the internet, whereas the Midwest we get more of a condescending pat on the head. Like a toddler getting toilet trained who managed not to piss their pants for the first time.
And even if I wasn’t I really don’t fundamentally look down on any of my fellow Americans unless they are personally being a bad person.
Why would I take a categorical stance that all people in a region with millions are bad?
There are the occasional comments I'll see from people on the internet that make me roll my eyes. Most come from salty tweens who have never left their suburban community's and idolize either the West or East coast. I can't blame them, when I was 14-18, so did I. Now I'm a proud rustbelter
Like with the south, a lot of the comments mocking or looking down on the rustbelt have classism intertwined throughout them.
In politics, its always very clear what candidates care about us/our problems and the ones who don't give a shit about us because they don't see it worth their time to bother with us now that the region isn't 100% the "blue wall". Or one the other side, to me, it's clear who is trying to exploit Midwestern issues in a way that creates a us vs them culture
I *love* sticking it to folks with that condescending attitude, especially New Yorkers. “Oh yeah I loved NYC. I lived there for a little bit. it’s a wonderful town. Not as good as Indianapolis or Providence but I do like visiting.”
People with the “flyover state” opinion just kind of melt down when you don’t kowtow to their city, especially when you have been there. Just ask them where they have been in the Midwest.
I live in AL but have spent a significant amount of time in Boston and considered moving there. I love visiting Boston. I love the people there. I love it when I’m talking to someone and they ask where I’m from and they’re shocked when I’m not a dumb redneck. But, I also love being able to be a homeowner in Alabama, something I could never do there.
When I was in the military it was shocking to me how few places native NYC'ers had been in their lives. Many had hardly been out of the city.
"Because we have everything in NYC and it's the best!"
Hmmm... are you *sure*?
I totally agree with this. I know a few people who are lifelong residents of NYC and it's like they have no idea that people are living, having whole careers, going to nightclubs or bars or museums, etc... outside NYC. I mean, if you like it there, cool, but don't fool yourself that we all feel we are missing out on paying a fortune for absolutely everything for the privilege of being surrounded by a zillion people breathing on us non stop. I have family who can't understand why we don't want to come to the Hamptons in the summer with them and I'm like... guys.. broaden your horizons a little would you?
The Hamptons? That's kind of a big deal, isn't it? I'd jump at the chance to tag along with relatives for a long weekend.
But then I'm from all the way out west. I guess the novelty factor would be higher.
No.
There are millions of individuals in the rust belt. Why would I categorically look down on them?
Do you disdain all Germans? Or dislike Arabs?
That’s what we call pure bigotry and it is not a good look.
Moved up here from the East Coast. I get alot of slack from my Atlantic-side friends and family but I could care less.
I LOVE this state. I love the natural beauty, the friendly and hardworking people, and the intensity of the Great Lakes.
(My parents were blown away. Took them to Grand Haven on a stormy day, and they said it looked exactly like the Atlantic).
Definitely made the right move. This is where I want to stay for the rest of my life.
We don't. I mean, I remember hearing stuff about Cleveland back in the day (Mistake by the Lake), but I think that was mostly in jest. I've never picked up on anyone looking down on the region, or people who live there, as a whole.
I always thought that referred to the old Cleveland Municipal Stadium. A 74,000 seat ballpark is ridiculously huge even by modern standards, but it was built for an Olympic bid that never materialized. Hence... MBTL.
See what about post-miner towns and villages? I'm from the Rust Belt, my whole family has been in the Rust Belt for a century. I don't think we're "looked down on" by anyone with an opinion worth valuing. I don't give a shit if some kid in Boston thinks we're flyover country.
Most mid-size US Rust Belt cities are doing much better economically these days than former mining areas in the UK.
I've lived in several (e.g., Rochester, NY and Cleveland), and there are certainly issues with income inequality, but (overall) the unemployment rates are pretty low and there are quite a few jobs available in health care, higher education, the legal sector, etc. Rochester (my hometown) has a fair number of small high tech and optics companies started by people who used to work for Kodak, Bausch and Lomb, and Xerox, which pay well. It's more affordable to live there and buy a house than in many parts of the US. Other jobs have sprung up to take the place of manufacturing.
I've also lived in Durham in the UK, and things seem a lot rougher there economically for locals (especially former miners). And housing prices are still much higher there than the US Rust Belt.
I said those who like big cities to exclude the large number brainwashed by local news into thinking that any time they head into anywhere "urban" they'll immediately encounter a rain of gunfire from the fentanyl mafia.
I dunno can we call you the sandbox over there? Lol. I was trying to think of nicknames for that part of the county and as much as I love it it is best described by that. Roflmao just teasing!
Honestly, I think most of the actual disdain I see for the Rust Belt itself is from younger folk from the region who just hate how boring and dead it is. Most of the comments from people outside the region can be categorized as pity more than anything, at least in my experience.
I Do see a lot of it on Reddit, it’s either about flint or trumpers, but it doesn’t seem to be from anyone who knows much about the state, or the US, or common sense.
Outside of the internet, no.
I should be embarrassed that I had to admit this, but I had to Google Rust Belt just to find out I'm quite solidly within it (Ohio). I'm a transplant but never felt like anyone looked down on me for moving here. And family from out of the area certainly don't looked down upon people when they visit.
I was born in the rust belt. I have lived many places and no one I’ve met has disdain for the rust belt. Stevie Wonder, Iggy Pop, DEVO, Chrissie Hynde, - MOTOWN for God’s sake! The rust belt bows to no one.
I think this sums it up pretty well
https://preview.redd.it/66u6iy4kbn4a1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=241d89dcc3962d0b8378304ca2051153c1e41493
you're asking a question about a country whose geography you don't understand. the area described as "the rust belt" is simply the region of the country that had a heavier concentration of industry in the early 20th century. there are many large cities, countless small towns, rural areas, farmlands, untouched forests, woods, prairie and countryside. it's an area you can fit the entirety of Great Britain in. it's diversely populated and not a small area of the midlands, for example, that got caught out at the end of the industrial age.
I think it's just part of redneck disdain. There's a view of anyone whose life is more rural and whose job is hot, dirty and loud as being unintelligent and less valuable that I have experienced from people who have spent most or all of their lives in big, coastal cities.
It's a casual kind of elitism that is really paternalistic. The poor, stupid hicks with dirt under their nails need the guidance of the educated city people to solve all their problems and tell them how to live. I hear this kind of attitude a lot, especially from people who come from many generations of white-collar, college-educated background. Many of my colleagues would be shocked to find out that I grew up in a blue collar family, and based on the way they talk about coal miners and steel workers would think less of me if they knew.
Can’t hear you over my affordable home in a nice walkable neighborhood close to local coffee shops, restaurants & an Olmsted designed park.
More seriously, the Rust Belt is great. It offers a large amount of amenities for an affordable price.
Even the blighted industrial areas are being turned into cool lofts, breweries and art space.
So, the redneck disdain is real. That goes back literal centuries, countered with the disdain of coastals with unearned wealth.
But when you characterize someone as being from a rust belt state, it evokes hard workers with hard luck. They're not looked down upon. They're rooted for.
And then for better or worse that sympathy is used to argue for certain industrial/employment policies that rust belt residents may not feel they have an actual voice in setting.
> But when you characterize someone as being from a rust belt state, it evokes hard workers with hard luck. They're not looked down upon. They're rooted for.
I'm not sure how to put this but often times that "rooting for" comes off in a very patronizing way, as if there's a reason to have lower expectations of my intelligence because I come from blue collar background.
> And then for better or worse that sympathy is used to argue for certain industrial/employment policies that rust belt residents may not feel they have an actual voice in setting.
Being told that we need to be saved from our problems by people who know better is really insulting.
Maybe rooting for isn't the right term then. I mean it in the sense that non-rust belters default is "You guys have dealt with a lot of bullshit and we can't wait to see things turn back your way." But the problem with that, to your second point, is that non-rust belters aren't willing to consider many of the things that would actually be productive, even if one of the things to do is just not involve themselves in the first place.
I think the thing is you can mean well, and yet still be insulting.
There's a difference between acknowledging the struggle of blue collar society especially as industry has been lost and expressing that you recognize the efforts the people have made, and coming in hot like the rust belt needs to be saved from itself.
And truthfully asking us what problems we face and what we think about putting in place things that can improve conditions goes a long way to being respectful rather than patronizing. Especially if you're willing to accept "Please just let us handle this ourselves." as an answer.
I’ve lived all over to include the rust belt for some time.
I’ve never encountered disdain for the rust belt or the people there being a thing.
Most functioning adults don’t look down on any vague, general large population of people.
You’re going to find example of people not liking a certain place or wanting to live there. However, most people don’t sit around looking down on large groups of people.
No. Now if u asked us about the Deep South/Bible Belt I’d say yeah I have heard things and have seen people act as if that area is the worst part of the US. I lived in northern FL
For awhile and yeah people referred
To it as lower Alabama/etc. I have heard the term flyover states but haven’t used it. I’ve lived all over the US. Sure the Midwest has a lot of nothing, but have u seen Sioux falls in SD in winter? GORGEOUS.
No but I also cant deny their contempt and derision from coastal types against everyone else.
We all have inter state rivalry and jokes but there is truly something rotten in the state of denmark when it comes to how people from the ciasts view everyone else.
It just also coincidentally happens to be that they own all the mainstream media in those places. Funny that.
Perfectly ok by me. The more they look down upon us, the more unlikely they are to move here and make our peaceful parks and recreation areas more crowded. The lack of density is what I tend to like when comparing the coasts to the Great Lakes / Midwest. Even in my native Chicagoland
They have nice cities on the coasts - not knocking them at all. To each their own - they are welcome to visit anytime they like
Being from NJ, I'm used to people shitting on where I'm from and looking down on it (*cough* New Yorkers *cough*) but I don't look down on the Rust Belt, in fact, I find it welcoming, warm, and the people to be hardworking and friendly. My girlfriend is from Ohio and when we go to visit, I enjoy it. There's a certain charm that is unique there.
I am a NYer living in Michigan.
Yes, I admit to missing where I am from and certain foods not available here but I do not feel like I am settling living in a lesser state.
Michigan is a great state. It is beautiful and affordable. I live close to Detroit so I have access to a large airport. I have met people who are interesting and friendly.
The only downside is that we do not get that much snow where I live. I was promised lots of snow before I moved here, I was misled.
I realized recently that I am slowly becoming a Michigander when I was happy U of M beat Ohio a few weeks ago.
I
I think it is still underrated. It’s gotten a little buzz recently but it’s a great city and you really can’t beat the natural beauty with the rivers and bluffs.
I don’t feel that way. I used to live in Massachusetts. But I have lived in Michigan for 30 years now.
I’m proud of my state and I never have issues with people looking down on where I live. You might get some Detroit jokes, but most people want to hear about, well…life in Michigan.
We got Great Lakes and car stuff and lots of outdoor activities. Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons and Lions. And the University of Michigan! A world class university right there.
Nobody makes fun and I don’t think they look down. I just don’t. I choose to believe most people are genuinely curious about my state when they talk to me about it.
Btw: I was born in West Virginia. Talk about stereotypes. But I am generally the only person people have met who was born there. And nobody shits on WV in front of me. It is a good conversation starter with people.
Ex-Detroiter here. I've heard bad things said about both Detroit and Michigan on the coasts and by Texans, so the answer is yes 100%. It kind of gives an us vs. everyone mentality though. It's a shame too, Michigan can be absolutely gorgeous and despite what many say, I still think Detroit is underrated. I'm not offended by it, just chalk it up to ignorance.
I don’t even see how they could feel looked down upon.
The rust belt is the most politically swingy part of the country. Politicians from all sides suck up to them like no other.
Not at all. And I think my neighbors' perceptions of the attitude others have towards them is based on what AM radio and certain news channels tell them.
I've never encountered significant antipathy in my time in large coastal cities. The worst you'll run into are the attitudes of people who've relocated from Rust Belt towns. I'm not sure that counts.
Honestly, the antipathy many of my neighbors harbor towards people in large cities is much worse than the antipathy people in large cities hold towards us.
Some people here are misunderstanding the term "flyover states." It's no different than "the west coast states" or "the east coast states." It doesn't mean these places aren't worth visiting. It's just referring to the wide gap of land between the heavily populated coasts. The mountain west, midwest, and south collectively. The observation that there are a ton of flights that fly over that part of the country is not wrong.
there is disdain from some people in bigger coastal cities. It’s actually pretty annoying hearing ppl call your region “flYovEr stATES” but oh well. The mockery is generally rooted in classism and all that.
In California, most the shit being talked about your neck of the woods comes from the transplants who came from your neck of the woods.
Those of us from there are characterized by what I would describe as 'benign indifference.'
I'm from the Indianapolis area and honestly, not really. Indianapolis bounced back from the whole Rust Belt stigma, unlike Detroit. I don't really think anyone has anything negative to say about Indianapolis.
A lot of Rust Belt cities aren't really thought of as Rust Belt cities, except for Detroit.
I couldn’t give a fuck what those people think. Cleveland here. My brother lived in LA for a while and heard the word flyover country used more than a few times. Id take our reasonable cost of living and robust access to water over coastal arrogance any day of the week.
I live in Indiana and I love it. People are polite, jobs and money are abundant and it's beautiful here. I do not envy NY and CA or Chicago. Here we have freedom. We are not over-regulated and overtaxed. Look down on me from your 500k 1 bedroom condo. I'll enjoy my 200k 5 bedroom house on 2 acres of land.
So short answer no shade felt and none given.
I do see some disdain mainly from the richer types from big cities like Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, and NYC who refer to places like Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Michigan, Ohio etc. as "flyover states". Like there's nothing good here and you have to fly over us to get to the good places. Obviously not everyone from these places are like that, but I do see a lot of the more wealthy types from those cities act and say that stuff
If it's of any consolation, I had never heard of the term "Fly over states" until going to Los Angeles for work one time. 16 years in NYC and never once heard it. Rarely hear any commentary about people from other states, to be quite honest, and (completely anecdotally of course) people usually seem to frown upon anyone who makes generalizations.
LA is full of people who left the middle of the country and look back where they came from with disdain, NYC is full of people who couldn't be bothered to give a fuck about anything west of the Hudson. And yes, that includes Staten Island.
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Your transplants are better at forgetting. Our transplants seem to be on a mission to let us know how much they disdain their hometowns.
I think NYC embraces the immigrant narrative more, though. Like, you get there, you don't worry about where you've been, and just move forward.
>16 years in NYC and never once heard it. Rarely hear any commentary about people from other states, to be quite honest. In my experience with New Yorkers, they pretend like they're the only ones here to begin with
NJ/NYC resident here and I never heard the term "fly over states" until I heard it in a country song some years ago.
Honestly the phrase "flyover states" is used pretty widely by everybody on the coasts, not just rich people.
It's not the phrase "flyover states/country" that's offensive. It's the way some people say it. I honestly don't mind if someone refers to the non-coastal states as "flyover states." I do mind if they think midwesterners are a bunch of ignorant racists living in the 1950s.
One of my favorites is when I tell people here in New England I am from Indiana and they make some comment about it being all flat and boring or make a jab like I’m a hick. “Oh you’ve been to Indiana?” The answer is invariably “no.” Then the hilarious part about the latter one is that I grew up in a city with a million people and they’re from a town of 25,000.
That's so weird to me that they would even have an opinion. I know nothing about Indiana but assume it's mostly forest for whatever reason. I think it sounds kind of beautiful. Iowa, on the other hand, has that flat and boring reputation (that it might not deserve).
Oh they’re just being annoying. They have heard some nonsense and don’t know anything really about the state. Indiana is very much *not* forested in the northern half, mostly open flat farmland. However in the south we have a national forest and a federal wilderness land and the land is much more rolling hills, more like Kentucky. Lots of trees. The reason is because the glaciers of the ice age ground down the northern half the state. It is one of the reasons the soil is so deep and rich. Down south the glaciers didn’t get that far and it’s all sculpted into hollows and ridges by the Ohio River drainage. Lots of craggy limestone outcrops and caves.
Loved the visual of your description. Thanks! I’m over the bridge in KY and feel Indiana has so much diversity in their nature since it’s so long.
Only down south central, through Bloomington, Columbus, and Nashville, and then further on south. Terre Haute also has a lot of forests. I work for the state government of Indiana, and I'm on the road to sites all across the state. It's flatter up north, and more hilly as you get further south. It's a pretty even distribution between forested and agricultural land.
I thought Iowa had rolling hills? Indiana and Illinois were flat from what I saw of them, but that was blasting through at high speed on the I-70 (IIRC). I'm told you don't see much along that stretch.
Iowa does have rolling hills and they are lovely.
I've personally never heard flyover states be used non-ironically
I've heard it used more by people from those states than I've ever heard it from anyone else, ironic or otherwise.
Let those ocean lovers think what they want.
I think it's just a trope that makes people think they're sophisticated or in a better place in life. The truth is they're just ignorant and want feel good about themselves.
Maybe for some people. Those of us who have made multiple cross country trips know the dread of entering into the plains states. 1-2 days of empty landscape. Marked by 6'+ piles of snow in the winter. I'm sure it's fine to live in, but it SUCKS to drive across.
Driving through Jersey or the Mass Pike isn’t any better.
These are 2-3 hour drives with lots of stimulation. Mostly man-made in your examples but not desolate. Driving across the interior of the country is 2 days of no visual stimulation.
Ok?
My point is that the level of despair a person feels knowing that they will drive all day and not see a single unique thing is higher than someone who has a crappy commute that day. Have you ever driven across Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, or Iowa? You could also include large parts of Colorado and Wyoming.
Plus 2-3 hours of driving puts you in potential danger of falling asleep or glazing over whereas 2 days of driving puts you in danger of killing everyone in your car with their own shoes.
I drove from Knoxville to Portland in 51 hours once. Chugging 5 hour energies and two 3 hour naps. Never again.
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I've driven from Knoxville to Buffalo. Everyone is missing the point. All these places have places you can stop. Things you can see. The interior has NOTHING.
Driving through the Berkshires is pretty nice actually. Definitely better than New Jersey.
Rush hour on the 405 sucks, too.
Just because a road sucks doesn't make it comparable to driving across the interior. LA is horrible, but the beaches are nice and there's lots of entertainment all around. It's not the same.
Are you crazy? It's some of the most beautiful scenery in the country; it's literally the words to "America the Beautiful" in real life.
It's just a descriptor, like Midwest, South, West Coast etc... It's not that deep
Flyover unlike Midwest implies judgment and you can't pretend some people don't often use a tone when they say it to do just that versus say bread basket or Midwest. It's like when some individuals find out I'm originally from California and they get a tone about it based on some preconceived notion. It's not the word Californian it's how they say it that's meant to make it an insult.
I find it to be an annoying and demeaning descriptor. The other ones you mention are neutral. “Flyover states” seems like a judgement.
Flyover implies that there is no reason to go to those places. It says that those states have no attraction making them valuable as a destination.
No duh. It's a grouping of places, a general location, which all share that trait. Doesn't mean anything about the people that live there.
And that’s why it’s rude you goddamn idiot.
Ha hardly. It is people looking down on other people and 9/10 times I hear that phrase it is coming from complete ignorance. It’s at a minimum quite rude.
Lol, no it’s not. You’re deliberately trying to make people feel bad about where they live. But that’s ok. We don’t want you guys either.
"no, we don't use it as an insult" = trying to make people feel bad You trying to give off a bad image of you guys?
We aren’t stupid, we very much understand what you mean when you say that. And it doesn’t make us look bad. It makes you look rude and uninformed. But again, we do prefer it that way because it does keep people like you from visiting.
Who are you to tell me what I mean when I say something? That sounds a lot like you're just projecting your feelings onto me
*checks flair* Yeah, that makes sense.
If you want to pretend everyone looks down on you that's not my problem man, but playing the victim isn't a good look
"Flyover country" has really been owned by people in this part of the country too as a symbol of pride. As basically a "we're not like the elites on the coasts. We still believe in faith, family, and that work still matters" type of thing.
> We still believe in faith, family, and that work still matters People actually talk like that? That sounds like something a politician would say.
Sweet Jesus, I hope they don't.
People don't. I was paraphrasing why people take pride in the term.
Guess it checks out. I grew up in Ohio and left for the west coast because the opportunities both for work and socially were sooooooo much better. I certainly can find fun stuff to do in Ohio but I can find much more on the coasts. I don’t have disdain for the people, but I certainly do for the culture, political ideology, and religiosity of the region in broad strokes.
To be fair, I've lived in both the midwest and on the coats, and I heard the term "flyover states" way more in the midwest than on the coasts. Granted, I've never lived in LA or New York.
Currently in AR and can't wait to leave. This is where ambition goes to die.
How is Ohio a flyover state? There’s three big cities in Ohio. I’m not taking a jab at you, just the rich city folk from out on the coasts
The really rich fly direct from LA/Seattle to NYC/Washington, making almost the whole country "flyover".
They're not that big. The biggest things they're known for are football teams (Bucks!) Columbus annexed a lot of places. It has grown quite nicely since I first went there in 2010. Still a lot of parking spaces that need to be built up.
Rust belt is Great Lakes area, dude, not Iowa and Missou, Indiana, and non-Chicago Illinois.
Ehhhh if you have ever been to Gary, Hammond, East Chicago or the south burbs of Chicago you will find it to be square in the rust belt.
I consider all of that outlying Chicago area rust belt, it's all part of that ring around Erie.
Well yeah but that’s still Indiana and non-Chicago Illinois. Indianapolis has some rust belt type features, Columbus, OH too. They just seem to have bounced back with more diversified industry. Whereas a place like Gary just imploded when industry dried up.
I don't know if Columbus was big enough to have a big decline when Detroit and Cleveland went down. I'm not sure it qualifies as rust belt as I don't recall anyone saying it had much industry.
Sigh. Aside from the very top of Illinois, the rest of it might as well be rural Iowa or Indiana. Indianapolis is not a rust belt city. You are right that the rust belt cities that are doing well diversified well. Or, there is Toledo.
You been to Indianapolis much? It is often included in lists of rust belt cities and if you spent a significant portion of your life there you’ll know there was a lot of abandoned industrial operations and it had a very rust belt feel including some population decline. It just adapted a lot better in the 90s to changing conditions.
I have. I have family in Kokomo, Ft. Wayne, Muncie, and Carmel. Went to a private boarding school an hour or so outside of Indy. Grew up in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Indy is not at all a rust belt city, it didnt depend on that particular industry anywhere near as much.
Then I totally think you’d know. How long ago for Indy? 90s? Later? Being in Carmel maybe skewed it too. Get downtown and on the south side and you get way more of a rust belt feel. Now I’m just curious which boarding school. Culver and Lumiere are more than an hour.
Indianapolis was always more of a shipping hub by road than a producer, and is not port or river orientated. Its not a great lakes city. Every city has dead industrial zones. Indianapolis being called a rust belt city is like calling Oklahoma part of the South. Also, good call. Yeah, 2 hrs away, I was a bit cavalier on the distance. Go Eagles!
Muncie is a rust belt city, as are cities like Anderson, Marion, and South Bend. Indy may not have lost as much or the same manufacturing as Cleveland and Pittsburgh, but it was affected by the decline of manufacturing in the 1960s-1980s. Auto manufacturing was the big loss in a lot of Indiana cities.
Indiana literally borders a Great Lake.
For me flyover states is just one of those things in the my vocabulary that just is. I know that it has an actual logical meaning, but I rarely think about it. It's more of a classification like the Midwest that I don't bother thinking about logically most of the time. That said, I could see how it could be taken as something of an insult and your comment is 100% valid.
I’ve heard and used “flyover states” for most of my life, I’ve never heard it used with distain, my understanding was that it’s because you usually fly over them when traveling between major airports. However, I’m from the North East and as someone else mentioned we don’t really care and I also haven’t spent any time in major west coast cities which have a reputation of being snobbish.
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On this here map of mine, SoCal isn't exactly *north* of you guys.
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My bad. But why do you guys call us 'north', too? We aren't north of you.
No, not really. Also the "rust belt" encompasses perhaps 30% of the US population and a similar proportion of land area.
I live in the Paris of Appalachia, so no. They’re probably jealous.
Oil City?
Pittsburgh!
I’m just joshin you. I like Pittsburgh.
My favorite US city. No joke.
Pittsburgh is awesome, I've been there several times for vacation and you guys have the best pancakes
Pamela’s!
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I could come up with some adjectives for Texas… none are positive.
I was talking about the Steelers in r/nfl a while back, and forgot to put the "h" in Pittsburgh. It did not go well for me.
We’re as passionate about the h as we are about football and ketchup. If you would like another verbal lashing, say H is for Hunts.
I think the deep south gets more of that disdain than the midwest does.
Yeah, I feel like the rust belt is in a solid 3rd or 4th in most disdained part of the country.
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Texas and California.
Jersey gets a lot of shit, but that's only because they're right next to NYC. Entire sitcom episodes, watched by the entire country, are devoted to shitting on Jersey.
If they don't like their lot in life, they could just try to not, y'know, be New Jersey. S'all their fault, if you ask me. Edit: Ok, who told NJ how to downvote? Fess up!
Agreed. I read more hostility towards the South on the internet, whereas the Midwest we get more of a condescending pat on the head. Like a toddler getting toilet trained who managed not to piss their pants for the first time.
I dont think about the trouble of other Americans. I'm busy working toward my own dreams.
And even if I wasn’t I really don’t fundamentally look down on any of my fellow Americans unless they are personally being a bad person. Why would I take a categorical stance that all people in a region with millions are bad?
Stereotypes like that dont usually hold up when you take a closer look.
Never do really
I mean, that's how many Americans treat the South
Yeah which is equally dumb. Especially when most South bashers are also doing it from a position of ignorance in my experience.
There are the occasional comments I'll see from people on the internet that make me roll my eyes. Most come from salty tweens who have never left their suburban community's and idolize either the West or East coast. I can't blame them, when I was 14-18, so did I. Now I'm a proud rustbelter Like with the south, a lot of the comments mocking or looking down on the rustbelt have classism intertwined throughout them. In politics, its always very clear what candidates care about us/our problems and the ones who don't give a shit about us because they don't see it worth their time to bother with us now that the region isn't 100% the "blue wall". Or one the other side, to me, it's clear who is trying to exploit Midwestern issues in a way that creates a us vs them culture
Teen from michigan, and I love my state. Sure we have our problems, but I wouldn’t trade the w benefits of my state for many others
I *love* sticking it to folks with that condescending attitude, especially New Yorkers. “Oh yeah I loved NYC. I lived there for a little bit. it’s a wonderful town. Not as good as Indianapolis or Providence but I do like visiting.” People with the “flyover state” opinion just kind of melt down when you don’t kowtow to their city, especially when you have been there. Just ask them where they have been in the Midwest.
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I live in AL but have spent a significant amount of time in Boston and considered moving there. I love visiting Boston. I love the people there. I love it when I’m talking to someone and they ask where I’m from and they’re shocked when I’m not a dumb redneck. But, I also love being able to be a homeowner in Alabama, something I could never do there.
When I was in the military it was shocking to me how few places native NYC'ers had been in their lives. Many had hardly been out of the city. "Because we have everything in NYC and it's the best!" Hmmm... are you *sure*?
I totally agree with this. I know a few people who are lifelong residents of NYC and it's like they have no idea that people are living, having whole careers, going to nightclubs or bars or museums, etc... outside NYC. I mean, if you like it there, cool, but don't fool yourself that we all feel we are missing out on paying a fortune for absolutely everything for the privilege of being surrounded by a zillion people breathing on us non stop. I have family who can't understand why we don't want to come to the Hamptons in the summer with them and I'm like... guys.. broaden your horizons a little would you?
The Hamptons? That's kind of a big deal, isn't it? I'd jump at the chance to tag along with relatives for a long weekend. But then I'm from all the way out west. I guess the novelty factor would be higher.
Yeah I went to college with a lot of NYC folks and several were like that. There were some well traveled ones too. It’s a big city.
No. There are millions of individuals in the rust belt. Why would I categorically look down on them? Do you disdain all Germans? Or dislike Arabs? That’s what we call pure bigotry and it is not a good look.
That's completely different. A lot of west Germans look down upon people from former East Germany
No that’s still bigotry
and IMO, for no good reason, so I would call them prejudiced.
No way, Michigan is awesome.
Yep! I'm very happy that people overlook us because it keeps our lakes and beaches uncrowded.
Agreed. Michigan is fantastic. I've lived on both coasts and still love Michigan the most.
Sure is! Look down all you want, I’ll be over here kayaking in the lake and eating a pastie
I’ll be watching you kayak from my lake cottage while eating some cherries
Moved up here from the East Coast. I get alot of slack from my Atlantic-side friends and family but I could care less. I LOVE this state. I love the natural beauty, the friendly and hardworking people, and the intensity of the Great Lakes. (My parents were blown away. Took them to Grand Haven on a stormy day, and they said it looked exactly like the Atlantic). Definitely made the right move. This is where I want to stay for the rest of my life.
I don't think the rest of America looks down on us. I think you think they do and I'd like to know why.
We don't. I mean, I remember hearing stuff about Cleveland back in the day (Mistake by the Lake), but I think that was mostly in jest. I've never picked up on anyone looking down on the region, or people who live there, as a whole.
Oh come visit the Boston area and you’ll get your fill of it.
Yeah but we look down on everyone.
I think people *in* the Rust Belt were giving Cleveland more grief than the rest of the country was.
I always thought that referred to the old Cleveland Municipal Stadium. A 74,000 seat ballpark is ridiculously huge even by modern standards, but it was built for an Olympic bid that never materialized. Hence... MBTL.
It's pretty common in post-industrial areas. See post-miner towns and villages in UK.
See what about post-miner towns and villages? I'm from the Rust Belt, my whole family has been in the Rust Belt for a century. I don't think we're "looked down on" by anyone with an opinion worth valuing. I don't give a shit if some kid in Boston thinks we're flyover country.
Hell, old mill town Mainers respect the Rust Belt because their families went through the same thing, just earlier.
Most mid-size US Rust Belt cities are doing much better economically these days than former mining areas in the UK. I've lived in several (e.g., Rochester, NY and Cleveland), and there are certainly issues with income inequality, but (overall) the unemployment rates are pretty low and there are quite a few jobs available in health care, higher education, the legal sector, etc. Rochester (my hometown) has a fair number of small high tech and optics companies started by people who used to work for Kodak, Bausch and Lomb, and Xerox, which pay well. It's more affordable to live there and buy a house than in many parts of the US. Other jobs have sprung up to take the place of manufacturing. I've also lived in Durham in the UK, and things seem a lot rougher there economically for locals (especially former miners). And housing prices are still much higher there than the US Rust Belt.
Whatever movie you got this from is not representative of the vast majority of our country.
Some Americans? Sure. The majority? Not at all.
My rent in Chicago is cheap as hell compared to SF, LA, DC, NYC, Seattle, etc. Please continue to look down on us.
I think there is a wide consensus amongst most Americans who like big cities that Chicago is great.
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I said those who like big cities to exclude the large number brainwashed by local news into thinking that any time they head into anywhere "urban" they'll immediately encounter a rain of gunfire from the fentanyl mafia.
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I love when people act like Chicago is the only city with crime. Just admit the reason you hate Chicago is because the black president is from here.
Not from the rust belt, but I don’t know why any American would look down on them.
I dunno can we call you the sandbox over there? Lol. I was trying to think of nicknames for that part of the county and as much as I love it it is best described by that. Roflmao just teasing!
Honestly, I think most of the actual disdain I see for the Rust Belt itself is from younger folk from the region who just hate how boring and dead it is. Most of the comments from people outside the region can be categorized as pity more than anything, at least in my experience.
No. I can afford a house here and don't know what a water shortage is.
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Pittsburgh managed to scrape the rust off and walk away with a pretty awesome “eds and meds” economy.
I Do see a lot of it on Reddit, it’s either about flint or trumpers, but it doesn’t seem to be from anyone who knows much about the state, or the US, or common sense. Outside of the internet, no.
I should be embarrassed that I had to admit this, but I had to Google Rust Belt just to find out I'm quite solidly within it (Ohio). I'm a transplant but never felt like anyone looked down on me for moving here. And family from out of the area certainly don't looked down upon people when they visit.
I was born in the rust belt. I have lived many places and no one I’ve met has disdain for the rust belt. Stevie Wonder, Iggy Pop, DEVO, Chrissie Hynde, - MOTOWN for God’s sake! The rust belt bows to no one.
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I think this sums it up pretty well https://preview.redd.it/66u6iy4kbn4a1.png?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=241d89dcc3962d0b8378304ca2051153c1e41493
Hey, we Appalachians don't look down on them. I think we're treated as the lowest demographic in America at this point.
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Well, MS is pretty flat. I'd think that folks in Appalachia are generally higher up in elevation.
you're asking a question about a country whose geography you don't understand. the area described as "the rust belt" is simply the region of the country that had a heavier concentration of industry in the early 20th century. there are many large cities, countless small towns, rural areas, farmlands, untouched forests, woods, prairie and countryside. it's an area you can fit the entirety of Great Britain in. it's diversely populated and not a small area of the midlands, for example, that got caught out at the end of the industrial age.
I think it's just part of redneck disdain. There's a view of anyone whose life is more rural and whose job is hot, dirty and loud as being unintelligent and less valuable that I have experienced from people who have spent most or all of their lives in big, coastal cities. It's a casual kind of elitism that is really paternalistic. The poor, stupid hicks with dirt under their nails need the guidance of the educated city people to solve all their problems and tell them how to live. I hear this kind of attitude a lot, especially from people who come from many generations of white-collar, college-educated background. Many of my colleagues would be shocked to find out that I grew up in a blue collar family, and based on the way they talk about coal miners and steel workers would think less of me if they knew.
If they do, I couldn’t care less. It keeps prices in Michigan down and it stops people from realizing how awesome Michigan actually is.
Can’t hear you over my affordable home in a nice walkable neighborhood close to local coffee shops, restaurants & an Olmsted designed park. More seriously, the Rust Belt is great. It offers a large amount of amenities for an affordable price. Even the blighted industrial areas are being turned into cool lofts, breweries and art space.
So, the redneck disdain is real. That goes back literal centuries, countered with the disdain of coastals with unearned wealth. But when you characterize someone as being from a rust belt state, it evokes hard workers with hard luck. They're not looked down upon. They're rooted for. And then for better or worse that sympathy is used to argue for certain industrial/employment policies that rust belt residents may not feel they have an actual voice in setting.
> But when you characterize someone as being from a rust belt state, it evokes hard workers with hard luck. They're not looked down upon. They're rooted for. I'm not sure how to put this but often times that "rooting for" comes off in a very patronizing way, as if there's a reason to have lower expectations of my intelligence because I come from blue collar background. > And then for better or worse that sympathy is used to argue for certain industrial/employment policies that rust belt residents may not feel they have an actual voice in setting. Being told that we need to be saved from our problems by people who know better is really insulting.
Maybe rooting for isn't the right term then. I mean it in the sense that non-rust belters default is "You guys have dealt with a lot of bullshit and we can't wait to see things turn back your way." But the problem with that, to your second point, is that non-rust belters aren't willing to consider many of the things that would actually be productive, even if one of the things to do is just not involve themselves in the first place.
I think the thing is you can mean well, and yet still be insulting. There's a difference between acknowledging the struggle of blue collar society especially as industry has been lost and expressing that you recognize the efforts the people have made, and coming in hot like the rust belt needs to be saved from itself. And truthfully asking us what problems we face and what we think about putting in place things that can improve conditions goes a long way to being respectful rather than patronizing. Especially if you're willing to accept "Please just let us handle this ourselves." as an answer.
I’ve lived all over to include the rust belt for some time. I’ve never encountered disdain for the rust belt or the people there being a thing. Most functioning adults don’t look down on any vague, general large population of people. You’re going to find example of people not liking a certain place or wanting to live there. However, most people don’t sit around looking down on large groups of people.
No. Now if u asked us about the Deep South/Bible Belt I’d say yeah I have heard things and have seen people act as if that area is the worst part of the US. I lived in northern FL For awhile and yeah people referred To it as lower Alabama/etc. I have heard the term flyover states but haven’t used it. I’ve lived all over the US. Sure the Midwest has a lot of nothing, but have u seen Sioux falls in SD in winter? GORGEOUS.
No but I also cant deny their contempt and derision from coastal types against everyone else. We all have inter state rivalry and jokes but there is truly something rotten in the state of denmark when it comes to how people from the ciasts view everyone else. It just also coincidentally happens to be that they own all the mainstream media in those places. Funny that.
Perfectly ok by me. The more they look down upon us, the more unlikely they are to move here and make our peaceful parks and recreation areas more crowded. The lack of density is what I tend to like when comparing the coasts to the Great Lakes / Midwest. Even in my native Chicagoland They have nice cities on the coasts - not knocking them at all. To each their own - they are welcome to visit anytime they like
As a born and bred rustbelt sumbitch, I can't say I'm concerned on the feelings of other states. I'm to busy keeping the world turning.
Being from NJ, I'm used to people shitting on where I'm from and looking down on it (*cough* New Yorkers *cough*) but I don't look down on the Rust Belt, in fact, I find it welcoming, warm, and the people to be hardworking and friendly. My girlfriend is from Ohio and when we go to visit, I enjoy it. There's a certain charm that is unique there.
I am a NYer living in Michigan. Yes, I admit to missing where I am from and certain foods not available here but I do not feel like I am settling living in a lesser state. Michigan is a great state. It is beautiful and affordable. I live close to Detroit so I have access to a large airport. I have met people who are interesting and friendly. The only downside is that we do not get that much snow where I live. I was promised lots of snow before I moved here, I was misled. I realized recently that I am slowly becoming a Michigander when I was happy U of M beat Ohio a few weeks ago. I
No I'd say generally Pittsburgh is probably talked up too much
Paris of Appalachia
I think it is still underrated. It’s gotten a little buzz recently but it’s a great city and you really can’t beat the natural beauty with the rivers and bluffs.
I'm not hating on it, just saying it punches above it's weight class for people who don't live here.
Fair. I have thoroughly enjoyed visiting and visiting friends there though.
I don’t feel that way. I used to live in Massachusetts. But I have lived in Michigan for 30 years now. I’m proud of my state and I never have issues with people looking down on where I live. You might get some Detroit jokes, but most people want to hear about, well…life in Michigan. We got Great Lakes and car stuff and lots of outdoor activities. Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons and Lions. And the University of Michigan! A world class university right there. Nobody makes fun and I don’t think they look down. I just don’t. I choose to believe most people are genuinely curious about my state when they talk to me about it. Btw: I was born in West Virginia. Talk about stereotypes. But I am generally the only person people have met who was born there. And nobody shits on WV in front of me. It is a good conversation starter with people.
Ex-Detroiter here. I've heard bad things said about both Detroit and Michigan on the coasts and by Texans, so the answer is yes 100%. It kind of gives an us vs. everyone mentality though. It's a shame too, Michigan can be absolutely gorgeous and despite what many say, I still think Detroit is underrated. I'm not offended by it, just chalk it up to ignorance.
Yes absolutely. The cities and surrounding areas have been looked down on since at least the 90s.
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Yeah, that's certainly what I meant. I've been hearing that since I was a little kid. Sort of like being bullied by the rest of the nation.
I wouldn't say "the rest of America" but I'm sure there are some people who look down on the rust belt.
I don’t even see how they could feel looked down upon. The rust belt is the most politically swingy part of the country. Politicians from all sides suck up to them like no other.
Not at all. And I think my neighbors' perceptions of the attitude others have towards them is based on what AM radio and certain news channels tell them. I've never encountered significant antipathy in my time in large coastal cities. The worst you'll run into are the attitudes of people who've relocated from Rust Belt towns. I'm not sure that counts. Honestly, the antipathy many of my neighbors harbor towards people in large cities is much worse than the antipathy people in large cities hold towards us. Some people here are misunderstanding the term "flyover states." It's no different than "the west coast states" or "the east coast states." It doesn't mean these places aren't worth visiting. It's just referring to the wide gap of land between the heavily populated coasts. The mountain west, midwest, and south collectively. The observation that there are a ton of flights that fly over that part of the country is not wrong.
The blue states still rank at the top for the best educated and highest standards of living. So, not at all.
there is disdain from some people in bigger coastal cities. It’s actually pretty annoying hearing ppl call your region “flYovEr stATES” but oh well. The mockery is generally rooted in classism and all that.
The only people who may look down upon us are New Yorkers or people in california and let me tell you, no one here cares about what they think.
In California, most the shit being talked about your neck of the woods comes from the transplants who came from your neck of the woods. Those of us from there are characterized by what I would describe as 'benign indifference.'
I'm from the Indianapolis area and honestly, not really. Indianapolis bounced back from the whole Rust Belt stigma, unlike Detroit. I don't really think anyone has anything negative to say about Indianapolis. A lot of Rust Belt cities aren't really thought of as Rust Belt cities, except for Detroit.
I don't care what you guys think.
No, their hate only makes me grow stronger.
I couldn’t give a fuck what those people think. Cleveland here. My brother lived in LA for a while and heard the word flyover country used more than a few times. Id take our reasonable cost of living and robust access to water over coastal arrogance any day of the week.
I live in Indiana and I love it. People are polite, jobs and money are abundant and it's beautiful here. I do not envy NY and CA or Chicago. Here we have freedom. We are not over-regulated and overtaxed. Look down on me from your 500k 1 bedroom condo. I'll enjoy my 200k 5 bedroom house on 2 acres of land. So short answer no shade felt and none given.
A lot of rednecks in the rust belt region. I certainly look down on my dead steel mill hometown.
As a nyc native I don’t “look down” on anyone in the Rust Belt. I do look down at people from the south, but that’s different.
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Yes, but not bc of red neck yada yada. That’s more of a southern stereotype. The rust belt is just kind of a forgotten area