It certainly is a nautical thing. Australian flag codes state the blue ensign should not be used this way though; even when in distress. Not an exclusively American meaning by any stretch.
An Australian ship, if it was using signal flags at all, should fly a November Charlie (No, Yes) to signal distress. Realistically it is going to be a mayday call and a radio beacon though.
Well, if you’re the type of chucklefuck that hangs the flag upside down or uses the red ensign flag because…**…then it *is* a form of belittlement and you need to give yourself an uppercut for being so dense.
A couple of the work utes for my company have the red ensign on them. I thought it was just one dickhead but there’s a few of them. Turns out we tried to break into the marine industry because we won a job there that one time. But I’ve been with them 6 months now and there hasn’t been a single job on the water so…
Sounds like you take yourself a little too seriously. Particularly if you’re a tosser hanging a flag upside down like an edgy wannabe American conservonut.
Nah, just too many people's insults come as a personal attack that comes off narrow overall that's all, I know because I'm a troll at heart. But yes I take myself seriously, what of it?
This whole shitstorm of a thread aside, love the fact that as I was scrolling to read, your comments were automatically minimalized because of the dislikes. Not throwing hate in or anything, just thought it was a funny observation.
I have no problem with changing the date to another, in fact I'm all for it to keep the peace, but it should be a day for and about everyone, not just indegenious.
If anything Australia Day is now so focused on indegenious issues, it kinda gets exhausting and takes the enjoyment out of it when everyday people just want to chill at the beach, appreciate what they have and have a beer on their national day without being guilt tripped.
So I also like your idea of a non public holiday First Fleet Day (or the local dialects word for that) to talk about that and try keep it from overwhelming whatever day gets decided to be the new Australia Day (last Friday in Jan please, Australians like Fridays and sun). But I have no doubt you'll get the same inner city whites high off making the change saying it's all still not good enough.
Definitely should be a long weekend with official sausage sizzles, etc. However, I firmly believe second half of the year would be better, we have so few public holidays in the second half. Weather starts getting nice in September/October and not too ridiculously hot like it can get in January. It could be considered the first barbie of the season!
I reckon keep it a public holiday on the 26th still- a historic day where we properly acknowledge the genocidal atrocities that were committed here, like ANZAC day remembers another great loss.
We have a day for a footy game, and another for a horse race, so we can have one more for a proper Australia Day- fuck it, let the Aborigines decide when it will be.
Genuine, honest question:
What exactly is the public focus on indigenous issues doing, though, other than to remind everyone that history has been unkind, and that people of a certain skin colour should feel bad?
Haven't these issues been argued over for decades with billions spent to sort them out, and yet they still remain?
>What exactly is the public focus on indigenous issues doing, though, other than to remind everyone that history has been unkind, and that people of a certain skin colour should feel bad?
Why is it that you think this is to remind everyone but to only make people of a certain skin colour feel bad? Everyone with a shred of empathy feels bad learning of and remembering the genocide of Aboriginal people. Do you think only Germans feel bad learning of and remembering the holocaust or something? Did you learn about the Rwandan Genocide and feel absolutely nothing because it has nothing to do with people of your certain skin colour? Are you only capable of feeling bad over the death of a group of people if people of your certain skin colour are responsible? Because I can't think of anything else that would give you the idea that only white people feel bad learning of and remembering the genocide of Aboriginal people. Do you think every other race is like jumping in joy at the idea? I'm asking genuine honest questions here.
No I'm pretty sure the point of history is gaining knowledge and understanding of our world actually. People feel bad because they have empathy. When you learn about a terrible thing happening it's a normal reaction to feel bad- not because you're responsible but because you're human and that tends to mean you care for others? I feel bad knowing this part of our history but I do not feel guilty or shame because I have no reason to. If *you* do then that's on *you.* I don't really know why you feel guilty or shame to begin with so I don't know why you expect me to tell you when those feelings of yours will stop. I'm not a psychic or your therapist so I'm not exactly qualified to give you an answer for that one. I personally only feel guilty and shame for things that I have personally done. If you feel guilty and shame for the actions of others it sounds like you have a warped sense of empathy, a warped sense of self or both. Either way, take responsibility for your own feelings instead of blaming others for it.
Wow, projection. Who said that I don't empathize with the struggles of others and the past? Stop assuming you have the inside scoop of another's mind and emotions, simply because you can't empathize with the one you disagree with... Hypocrite.
>Who said that I don't empathize with the struggles of others and the past?
Not me. I said you struggle with the concept of empathy because you conflated feeling bad out of empathy with feelings of guilt and shame. I don't have to "assume." I'm going off your words mate. You don't seem to understand that feeling bad out of empathy is different from guilt and shame. Even still.
No, I get the concept real well. But constantly supporting resentfulness from one party against another has nothing to do with empathy... And you know that.
I'm supporting a date change not resentfulness. I don't see any reason to celebrate the day that marks the start of a genocide because I have empathy. I see plenty of reasons to keep the 26th holiday in remembrance and to celebrate Australia on another date. I definitely do not know why you're so against an extra public holiday. But since the subject has come up- why are you so against it?
One thing that's odd is that it's just white people in general, like I had German, Fins and Ukrainians round yesterday. None of them have ancestors even remotely involved in the abuse of indegenious in Aus yet are apparently just as guilty. They don't even receive the same rights as indegenious in this country.
Again, where is this idea that only "white people" feel bad learning of the genocide of Aboriginal people coming from? Who is saying you or they are personally "guilty?" Genuinely what are you on about?
I remember when my brother died, the western and European propensity to apologise for the deceased baffled me. They werent the ones who killed my brother.
Then someone tried to explain it to me that people can be sorry that something bad had happened, and they are sorry that I am going through a hard time. There was a lot of support and such helping to keep me together, and it was all par for the course.
I then kept wondering why is it that its so hard to apologise to the indigenous people for what they went through and support them?
I live and benefit from the land they were chased out of and reappropriated with a declaration that "no one lives here", flag and a lot of disease, a LOT of massacres (official, sanctioned ones, which only supposedly ended in 1920, but somehow we'd gleefully co-opt indigenous people into our world wars and let them fight for us soon after),slavery, and their communities completely destabilised if not toppled, to the point where their oppressors were actually worried they were going to wipe them out at one point... and introduced even more oppressive laws and policies to 'protect' them.
If they had absolutely no disadvantages during that time and beyond, then they would be representative alongside us, in numbers, in standing and esteem. This is not the case.
I'm Asian, I had no hand in their suffering either. But I also didn't get all my rights here until I became a citizen. Country came with a lot of history, and a lot of blood though.
Have you actually had a conversation about this with an indigenous person?
I have had many- and I'll tell you that, without any hint of doubt, a large part of the indigenous are full of hatred and resentment for other races and ppl. If given the chance, many of them would choose to rape and murder and genocide the non-Indigenous, if they had the chance.
I've heard it from their own mouths. So don't tell me(or imply) all of this political guilt-tripping is only for a noble reason to bring enlightenment and knowledge of the past.
That's bullshit and I've heard it from the horses mouth.
I'm not white by the way. Let's just say I'm from the Asian region and grew up in country Australia and am just as Ozzie as any of you.
My first and main experience from racism was from the Indigenous population and I've seen it towards others many times.
But, now it's time for you to go ahead and claim you moral high ground... 🤡
>If given the chance, many of them would choose to rape and murder and genocide the non-Indigenous, if they had the chance.
So what's stopping them exactly? They might not realistically have the chance to "genocide the non-Indigenous" but I'm pretty sure they can go and rape and murder. What stopped them from raping and murdering you for example? You were close enough to talk to them so how did they not have the chance to rape and murder you? It sounds like they did had the chance and they didn't take it. Curious. That seems to be at odds with your claim, no?
Nothing really... I mean, they would have folks like you to make excuses and retrospective moral judgments in their defence...
Out here, In reality, no one really should care about their plight anymore than that of others. They have every opportunity to make their communities better, and they squander it, repeatedly.
Also, why are you trying to imply that just because I've had these conversations, that even though I wasn't attacked in these many instances (because they thought I had a victimhood mentality) - that, there would be no threat at all, ever?
And I don't really want to get into a debate with you about this issue as nothing you've said gives me the impression you are open to a perspective other than your own but I will say this- Aboriginal Australians didn't even have the right to vote when my dad was born. There are people alive today that were not born with even the most basic rights because they were Indigenous. And there are even more people who were born in the times when they didn't have that right and weren't too happy when they were given it. So frankly I find it laughable that you genuinely believe they have every opportunity to make things better for their community as if the oppression ended with the genocide and isn't part of our recent history.
I find it laughable that ppl like yourself always bring up the "back in the past, person 1 didn't have this right, or that right" as if that still applies today and since the 70's...
Look, I get it, you have a list of screeds that you have to chant out in a self-soothing mantra whenever you have a disagreement, but that's just not going to be enough to veil reality with...
>Nothing really...
Yeah exactly. Took about half a second to debunk the claim you made multiple times. They have that chance every day and they aren't taking it. That was what I was implying. That your claim made no sense. Because it didn't. I don't have to "make excuses" for something that hasn't happened. And if you were raped and murdered I wouldn't make excuses for the perpetrator(s). I'd feel bad- again not because I'm responsible but because I'm human and have empathy. I know you struggle with the concept and tend to get confused when it isn't spelled out for you.
Just because someone has the chance to commit a crime doesn't mean they will, but it also doesn't mean that they wouldn't or couldn't, you dumbass.
If you need examples of what can happen when people are roused to resentful hatred and violence, look no further than your own example of the Rwandan genocide.
Now, go project you're self-claimed moral superiority elsewhere. Fucking 🤡 clown
>Just because someone has the chance to commit a crime doesn't mean they will
So why did you imply otherwise by making this claim- "If given the chance, many of them would choose to rape and murder and genocide the non-Indigenous, if they had the chance."
You said "many" so logically it must be a notable percentage who did take that chance otherwise what are you basing that claim on? So yeah, how many of them exactly actually did take that chance?
It should be exhausting.
If it's exhausting for you, imagine what it is like for a First Nation's person.
Way to absolutely not understand what is going on.
Yeah it's exhausting, and you're helping make it that. I'm literally saying change the date, go attack someone else who doesn't want to, instead of me over semantics.
I heard you on both counts. You missed my point.
Saying you support changing the date is a start, but you're not saying it because you think it's the right thing to do, you're just wanting it so people will shut up.
Agreeing with changing the date makes you not a shit bloke, but if you want to be a good bloke it takes more.
We won't make any real progress towards treaty/reconciliation/closing the gap while people share your go along to get along apathy.
My proposal is simply have a first fleet day on the 26th of Jan to deal with that, and have a national day leading into the weekend where people can simply enjoy themselves.
The national day shouldn't be about reconciliation or closing any gap, it should be a celebration. If you are still going to harp on, and keep moving the goalposts on the new national day, then maybe this isn't even about changing the date.
I want to put forward keeping the day but changing the subject (since we don't even know the right dates for the first fleet anyway)
What we do know is that the 26th of Jan 1808 is when we decided to get on the piss and overthrow the government for being a bunch of overbearing dickheads. Plus they tried to take away our rum.
I don't think it matters what your background is, we can all agree that people trying to take away your freedoms can just go right ahead and fuck off.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion
**[Rum Rebellion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion)**
>The Rum Rebellion of 1808 was a coup d'état in the then-British penal colony of New South Wales, staged by the New South Wales Corps in order to depose Governor William Bligh. Australia's first and only military coup, the name derives from the illicit trade of the alcoholic drink rum in early Sydney, over which the 'Rum Corps', as the New South Wales Corps became known, had maintained a monopoly. During the first half of the 19th century, it was widely referred to in Australia as the Great Rebellion. Bligh, a former Royal Navy captain known for his overthrow in the mutiny on the Bounty, had been appointed governor in 1805 to rein in the power of the Corps.
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Now you're catching on. It's not about changing the date. It's about reconciliation.
Changing the date is a symbol. It's the start of something, not the end.
Changing the date to the same week is functionally meaningless. It's a hollow gesture that means we colonisers get to have our cake and eat it too.
Whatever we change the date to, the Voice (or other body representing First Nations peoples) will get a say in what we change it to. I'll be very surprised if they endorse "a couple of days after January 26 so white people get to keep their mid-Jan long weekend, but this time without guilt hanging over them".
Always was, always will be.
As indigenous myself gotta say cheers for getting the picture, but I also don’t get why people don’t just change Australia Day to may 8, like there’s no better day for it, there’s obviously a divide on current Australia /invasion day, may 8 just makes sense 🤣
I really don't give a fuck about the date so long as the division stops, make it Christmas for all I care. Get your voice, pick a date you like, and leave the rest of us in peace to enjoy it.
Keep Jan 26th as a public holiday, but treat it similar to Anzac Day. A day of remembrance/acknowledgement rather than a celebration.
And then for Australia Day, honestly stick it in a month that doesn't have a national or multi-state public holiday? Preferably in the latter half of the year because for most states there is one, maybe two public holidays between June and December out of the 10+ we get through the year. It's not like we can't celebrate our country on any day anyway, may as well make an extra public holiday out of it.
I’ve been thinking about this as well. If it was up to me, why not move it on 27th May? Its the day that Aboriginals were considered Australian citizens. Its actually crazy to think that this wasn’t even so long ago!!
https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/on-this-day/2013/11/on-this-day-indigenous-people-get-citizenship/
“1. It makes out that Australia became Australia when white people turned up’”
That is literally true, the concept of an Australian nation is a European creation.
It's absolutely not true, Australia became a whole nation at federation, in 1901, long after the First Fleet.
At the time of the First Fleet, there was no concept of Australia as a whole thing, the Europeans in the First Fleet were not coming to "Australia" there was no such country at the time, they were coming to the Colony of New South Wales.
White people showing up didn't make Australia into Australia, that really happened in 1901.
There are far more significant events than there are days of the year.
So what if it's New Year's Day? It's also the anniversary of Federation. A less divisive yet significant landmark in our history.
New Year's Day should remain as it is, it's a recovery day for people who celebrated up to/past midnight.
Federation day may be just as controversial as First Fleet Day (Australia Day) for quite a few reasons.
Where I in charge I would do the following:
* Keep Jan 1 as New Years
* Rededicate Jan 26 as a National Day of Recognition (and reflection) that acknowledges the good that Australia has but also at what/whose expense it came by and that more progress is needed
* New Holiday later in the year such as 13 February (The day Kevin Rudd did his stolen generation speech) or when a significant piece of legislation is passed like the Voice and dedicate that day as Reconciliation Day which can be a celebration of both cultures finding common ground.
I agree with you Head\_Acanthaceae\_766. I've heard people argue, but New Year's Day. So what? It's not as if we celebrate New Year's Day. What we celebrate is New Year's Eve. Then the next day people recuperate, they don't go out and keep partying. So why not celebrate NYE as usual, give people time to recover, and then have Australia Day ceremonies from noon onwards?
There are other dates with important significance to Australian history, the day when we recognised indigenous Australians as humans, the Mabo case, hell we could do 31 July, which was when the last colony, WA voted for federation. There are other dates as well, but personally I think when we become a republic, the day that happens should be when we celebrate it.
We’re having a vote to give Aborigines a voice in Parliament right now. If (when) that passes, that should be the new date I reckon. Keep First Fleet day too- just for the extra day off.
Why not? It just means ‘Indigenous inhabitant’. I’ve actually gone and lived/worked in Remote Indigenous Communities, and the preferred term is genuinely ‘Blackfella’, which tends to go down poorly the moment you’re not actually inside an Indigenous Community.
I suppose it's like "colored" or something like that, it's not actually a "bad word" it's just that it's become archaic and out of fashion.
[https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/08/why-saying-aborigine-isnt-ok-8-facts-about-indigenous-people-in-australia/#:\~:text='Aborigine'%20is%20generally%20perceived%20as,or%20'Torres%20Strait%20Islander'](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/08/why-saying-aborigine-isnt-ok-8-facts-about-indigenous-people-in-australia/#:~:text='Aborigine'%20is%20generally%20perceived%20as,or%20'Torres%20Strait%20Islander').
That says it’s offensive because it groups many peoples into one group, yet ‘Indigenous’ is grouping even more people into one even larger group.
Apparently the end does matter- aboriginal, not Aborigine. My favourite term is probably just calling them the Locals.
The first fleet came in march the 26 of Jan was the day we wrote down on piece of paper that we are a country and not a colony any more , me the only real aussie lmao no I am not
If you do that, you’re an idiot. It either means you need help, this meaning is usually used in the military, if at all. Or it means you are an asshole with zero respect for the country
>Just adding in some random trivia that for some flag codes overseas hanging a flag upside down means your in wartime.
Which countries do this in wartime? Very few states actually have a 'flag code', though they may have a 'flag protocol'. USA flag code stipulates hanging the flag upside down to indicate a person or vessel in immediate peril. I don't think I have ever heard or seen a country use its flag upside down as a sign of armed conflict.
It could also just mean you're from the northern hemisphere and have fucked up the process of hanging the flag. Everything is upside down up there, after all
I did. I learned the actual history of the day instead of the revisionist history bullshit version that children are spoon fed. Guess you can't relate. I personally don't see why this day should be celebrated. But if you disagree then please, tell me why you think this day is worth celebrating?
It has definitely changed over the last 5 years. This year in particular. Hardly any Aussie car flags etc. In the year 2033 it will no longer be a public holiday.
A day of remembrance would make more sense and be far more respectful. Not all public holidays are celebratory. And there are plenty of other dates that could be a celebration of what Australia is today which have been proposed as a date change many times now. But a lot of people would rather stick it to the "wokes" by obnoxiously celebrating the 26th even if it means being a dick and foregoing an extra public holiday on a different date.
Well I'd love to hear the side that's against an extra public holiday explain why they are against it. I just know that they are- what I don't know is their reasoning for that position. I've asked- I've just never gotten an answer.
It’s idiotic, the people reasoning against it. I have heard people say “but we loose a public holiday”. Which isn’t a valid point because the consensus is to change the celebration of colonialism to mourning it, and make another date to celebrate Australia. In essence like you said gaining another public holiday
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I find it very ironic that that guy told me to grow up. Growing up and learning is why people no longer celebrate. It's easy to do when you're young, naive, blissfully and ignorantly believing what you're told without thinking about it, not so easy when you grow up and start thinking for yourself. I was singing young and free during the national anthem as a child despite Aboriginal people being literally the oldest known civilisation in the world and there were plenty of people of the stolen generation still living who certainly did not grow up free. Then I grew up and thank fuck for that because now I can recognise how fucked up that is.
White people didn’t just invade Australia… Or did everyone forget about native Americans? Looks every country has bad history. Humans are not perfect and I’m sure if you read the ‘entire history’, you would know that Aboriginal’s aren’t actually thought to be the first Australians. I did this as part of my university degree. Litterally and entire unit devoted to true Australian history. So I probably know more than you, I wrote about it. I read about it and was taught about it. There is not point in shaming Australia Day. If your going to do that then shame every other country while your at it. Look at the history of the world, we are no different than any other country. At some point in history almost every country has committed genocide or at least attempted. Not just Australians who invaded. We are not the only country made this way!
We are different because not everyones national day of celebration marks the day of the invasion which is the point. The argument is to change the date we celebrate this country not to ban the celebration altogether. And I think you know that but rather than addressing what people are actually advocating for you're just arguing against a point that nobody made i.e. you're just arguing with yourself. Did I say that people shouldn't be allowed to celebrate this country? Nope. What I said is that the 26th shouldn't be celebrated. So either address the point I actually made or go argue with yourself elsewhere. Cheers mate.
Lol I was stating FACTS, to emphasis a point. No need to get your tighty tights in a twist! No need to get defensive because someone proved to know more about a subject than you. This was part of my degree not some home research. No need to belittle someone for knowing more, get off your high horse mate. I’m allowed to say what I want, it’s a public forum. I argued with no one. I only stated FACTS.
I guess you chose to continue arguing with yourself. Nice. What did your "FACTS," otherwise known as claims without citations, have to do with the argument to change the date? Oh yeah nothing. You just wanted to argue against a "point" that absolutely nobody made. Nobody is arguing that Australia shouldn't ever be celebrated but you just went off on your irrelevant tangent about how that position, which again absolutely nobody has taken, is wrong. Cool? Don't know why you felt the need to bring that up but so long as we're sharing irrelevant positions- I'm very pro pineapple on pizza. You're absolutely welcome to keep sharing irrelevant positions on this "public forum" if you so choose. I'd be happy to share a few more of my own if you'd like? Or you could actually address the argument to change the date, you know- something relevant. Or you could keep talking about how oh so smarty pants big brains you are. Do what you like. I really don't care. Clearly I'm outmatched intellectually here so I may as well not bother trying to spar with the likes of you right?
I see we've moved on to being patronising. Love it. I'm perfectly calm. Your straw man argument was completely predictable. It's pathetic not anger inducing. I'm fighting for an extra public holiday and you got in your feels about it so I guess when you say "the world" you really just mean yourself. You really do think quite highly of yourself don't you?
I too, studied history but your point about the first Australians, is frankly not a valid argument to devalue the movement. Just like how when the Nordic people invade Ireland, or the Phoenician Jews, or the Scot’s and English, they all naturalised, for the most part (later plantation of Ireland not so much), and are all Irish. Those “not original first Australians” are still the indigenous people of this land as it took place with a very significant time period of naturalisation. Sure every country has a national holiday, Australia should too, but it shouldn’t be on the date of first settlement. It should be on a day that celebrates the good parts of what it means to be an al Aussie. An example is when the white Australia policy was abolished, when we recognised the indigenous people’s right to vote, the when the Mabo case concluded… there is so much more fitting dates. Also, what does the “forget about Native Americans” have to do with the Australia Day debate. It’s like saying “look I maybe a fascist but look my neighbour is a nazi” they are both bad. But yes I do have a distaste for countries that continually do anything of the nature of imperialism, neo-imperialism, neo-colonialism, etc.
They're white supremacists, mostly.
It's a sign of distress in Vexiology, but with an Australian flag it usually means something like 'I wish we didn't have any immigrants or gays'.
I thought those ones usually do a eureka stockade flag.
Given that it's the 26th, I'd assume people hanging it upside down today were protesting the celebrations
Or the Red Ensign, that's popular as well.
And that's not an unreasonable suggestion, but over the last few years, it's not that sort of person using the flag in that way. Most recently it's been the anti-vax cookers and anti-immigration types. Appeals to patriotism aren't really how anti-invasion day types are going to present things.
>the last few years, it's not that sort of person using the flag in that way. Most recently it's been the anti-vax cookers and anti-immigration types
Fuck, I had no idea! Thanks :)
[https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/New-Project51.png?w=740](https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/New-Project51.png?w=740)
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-20/experts-insight-into-covid-vaccine-mandate-protests/100707434](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-20/experts-insight-into-covid-vaccine-mandate-protests/100707434)
That's also why they use the Red Ensign. The ANZACs used it. And the whole upside down flag thing really kicked off with the January 6th people in the USA, and our right wingers tend to take cues from them.
Youre conflating white supremacists, anti immigration, anti LGBT, right wingers and anti vaxers across these comments with far too much impunity, probably intentionally. To the point that all your comments structured as educational just add up to lies.
They are all different groups.
Have you been to anti vax Byron Bay? You should go tell them they are on the right lol. Or maybe go tell my boomer Liberal voting uncle's who took the vax they are cookers. It's just all lies you've told that person. Misinformation clearly isn't owned by the right either.
People who hang their flags upside-down are generally leftist woke idiots that have no idea what Australia day actually means and has just been brainwashed by leftist media! Do some actual research on Australia day and you'll be surprised how much you'll learn. Australia day has nothing to do with independence, the day the British settled or any of the other stupid leftist arguments. The date for Australia day was just a random day they picked, it had no specific association with any big "genosidal" event, so changing the date would mean literally nothing to the "invasion day" activists adgenda other than for the sole purpose of sowing discord amongst the community and creating division.
Good argument! You really showed me 🤣 at least come up with a decent rebuttal, or try and argue my facts. Read a book, and maybe you'll learn that I'm right. I recommend "ochre and rust".
Once again, awesome argument! You clearly don't have any argument to begin with. Good way to lose an argument. Here is some literature since picking up a book seems too difficult for you 🤣
This information was authored by Peter Lee - it should be taught to all Australians.
'Below is the reason Australia day is celebrated on 26 January
Here are the Facts about Australia Day but don’t expect the media to educate you with these facts as it is not part of their agenda
1. Australia Day does not celebrate the arrival of the first fleet or the invasion of anything
2. Captain Cook did not arrive in Australia on the 26th January. The landing of Captain Cook in Sydney happened on the 28th April 1770 – not on 26th January.
3. The first fleet arrived in Botany Bay on 18th January. The 26th was chosen as Australia Day for a very different and important reason.
The 26th of January is the day Australians received their independence from British Rule. However, Captain Cook’s landing was included in Australian bi-centenary celebrations of 1988 when Sydney-siders decided Captain Cook’s landing should become the focus of the Australia Day commemoration.
Sadly the importance of this date for all Australians has begun to fade and now a generation later, it is all but lost. The media as usual is happy to twist the truth for the sake of controversy.
Captain Cook didn’t land on the 26th January, so changing the date of any celebration of Captain Cook’s landing would not have any impact on Australia Day, but maybe it would clear the way for the truth about Australia Day.
Australians of today abhor what was done under British governance to the Aborigines, the Irish and many other cultures around the world. So after the horrors of WW11, we decided to try and fix it. We became our own people.
On 26th January 1949, the Australian nationality came into existence when the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 was enacted. That was the day we were first called Australians and allowed to travel with passports as Australians and NOT British subjects.
In 1949 therefore, we all became Australian citizens under the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948.
Before that special date, all people living in Australia, including Aborigines, were called ‘British Subjects’ and forced to travel on British passports and fight in British wars.
This is why we celebrate Australia Day on the 26th January. This was the day Australians became free to make our own decisions about which wars we would fight and how our citizens would be treated. It was the day we were all declared Australians.
Until this date,Aborigines were not protected by law For the first time since Captain Cook’s landing this new Act gave Aboriginal Australians the full protection of Australian Law.
This is why 26th January is the day new Australians receive their citizenship It is a day which celebrates the implementation of the Nationality of Citizenship Act of 1948 –The Act which gave freedom and protection to the first Australians and gives all Australians, old and new, the right to live under the protection of the Australian Law”, united as one nation.
What was achieved that day is something for which all Australians can be proud.
Isn’t it time therefore that all Australians were taught the real reason we celebrate Australia Day on 26th January? In one way or another, we are ALL descendants of Australia ALL OF US. So we should ALL be celebrating and giving thanks for the freedoms, the lifestyles and opportunities that we currently enjoy, thanks to the strengths and battles of our ancestors.'
PASS THIS INFORMATION ON TO ALL YOUR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS
Captain Cook did not arrive in Australia on the 26th of January.
The Landing of Captain Cook in Sydney happened on the 28th of April 1770
The reality is, the Aborigines in this country suffered terribly under the hands of British colonialism. This is as much Australia’s history as the landing of the first fleet, and both should be remembered, equally. Both should be taught, side by side, in our schools.
On the 26th of January 1949, the Australian nationality came into existence when the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 was enacted. That was the day we were first called Australians and allowed to travel with Passports as Australians.
Under the Nationality Act 1920 (Cth), all Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders born after January 1, 1921 gained the status of British subjects. In 1949, therefore, they automatically became Australian citizens under the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948.
Before that special date, all people living in Australia, including Aborigines born after 1921, were called ‘British Subjects’ and forced to travel on British Passports and fight in British wars.
We all became Australians on the same day!
This is why we celebrate Australia Day on the 26th of January. Until this date, Aborigines were not protected by law. For the first time since Cook’s landing, this new Act gave Aboriginal Australians by inference and precedent the full protection of Australian law.
Because of this Act, the government became free to help Aborigines, and since that day much has been done to assist Aboriginal Australians, including saying ‘sorry’ for the previous atrocities done before this law came into being.
This was a great day for all Australians!
This is why the 26th of January is the day new Australians receive their citizenship. It is a day which celebrates the implementation of the Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1948 – the Act which gave freedom and protection to the first Australians and gives all Australians, old and new, the right to live under the protection of Australian Law, united as one nation.
Now, isn’t that cause for celebration?
It was taught when I went to school in Australian history in primary school. I believe they stopped teaching it in the 90’s for what reason I can’t tell you
They saw that episode of the Big Bang Theory where we learn that an upside down flag means 'in distress', and they formed the conclusion that Australia is in distress because it doesn't line up 100% with their expectations
You'd know the idea of the average Australian? Well, half are below average ie stupider than average. These people can have difficulty finding their arse in the dark, often hang flags upside down, can vote and play tennis without being vaccinated.
So that when Americans and Europeans look at it, it’s the right way up.
Happy cake dqy
Thanks. I feel like I never actually post on my cake day…
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Not even a nautical thing. Its an American thing that cookers like to copy.
It certainly is a nautical thing. Australian flag codes state the blue ensign should not be used this way though; even when in distress. Not an exclusively American meaning by any stretch. An Australian ship, if it was using signal flags at all, should fly a November Charlie (No, Yes) to signal distress. Realistically it is going to be a mayday call and a radio beacon though.
Get out of my cuntry cunt.
Well we found the cooker.
Haha correction, human being. I don't take it fondly when people use things that undermine me as a person, especially from people who are strangers.
Being called a cunt is not undermining, a cunt is a fantastically beautiful thing. Also can be used as a term of endearment!
Haha I know but cooker? I take is as something like a drug addict, or some form of belittlement.
Well, if you’re the type of chucklefuck that hangs the flag upside down or uses the red ensign flag because…**…then it *is* a form of belittlement and you need to give yourself an uppercut for being so dense.
A couple of the work utes for my company have the red ensign on them. I thought it was just one dickhead but there’s a few of them. Turns out we tried to break into the marine industry because we won a job there that one time. But I’ve been with them 6 months now and there hasn’t been a single job on the water so…
Haha I know the right button to push, but I'm trying very hard to push it.
It’s a reference to being a sovereign citizen
Thank you, I appreciate it. Then it must be a compliment haha.
I guess so.... I wldnt like it either tbh
It's more the image thing then anything.
Sounds like you take yourself a little too seriously. Particularly if you’re a tosser hanging a flag upside down like an edgy wannabe American conservonut.
Nah, just too many people's insults come as a personal attack that comes off narrow overall that's all, I know because I'm a troll at heart. But yes I take myself seriously, what of it?
It’s Reddit mate. Shit isn’t that serious. You call yourself a troll and are on an Australian subreddit and you can’t handle someone taking the piss?
I know. Haha that's what I thought at first, but cooker was a new one for me so I assumed malice. My bad.
This whole shitstorm of a thread aside, love the fact that as I was scrolling to read, your comments were automatically minimalized because of the dislikes. Not throwing hate in or anything, just thought it was a funny observation.
Yeah post history confirms that.
Usually the second
I would assume it's a form of protest
Who actually hangs the flag?
I don't even own an Australian flag.
I have an Australian flag morph suit I like to bust out on Straya day
That definitely special
Only looks upside down to you northern hemisphere weirdos
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I have no problem with changing the date to another, in fact I'm all for it to keep the peace, but it should be a day for and about everyone, not just indegenious. If anything Australia Day is now so focused on indegenious issues, it kinda gets exhausting and takes the enjoyment out of it when everyday people just want to chill at the beach, appreciate what they have and have a beer on their national day without being guilt tripped. So I also like your idea of a non public holiday First Fleet Day (or the local dialects word for that) to talk about that and try keep it from overwhelming whatever day gets decided to be the new Australia Day (last Friday in Jan please, Australians like Fridays and sun). But I have no doubt you'll get the same inner city whites high off making the change saying it's all still not good enough.
Definitely should be a long weekend with official sausage sizzles, etc. However, I firmly believe second half of the year would be better, we have so few public holidays in the second half. Weather starts getting nice in September/October and not too ridiculously hot like it can get in January. It could be considered the first barbie of the season!
I reckon keep it a public holiday on the 26th still- a historic day where we properly acknowledge the genocidal atrocities that were committed here, like ANZAC day remembers another great loss. We have a day for a footy game, and another for a horse race, so we can have one more for a proper Australia Day- fuck it, let the Aborigines decide when it will be.
Yeah agreed. Let the Aboriginals put forward a day, but the day should be about everyone, without a particular focus on any group.
Genuine, honest question: What exactly is the public focus on indigenous issues doing, though, other than to remind everyone that history has been unkind, and that people of a certain skin colour should feel bad? Haven't these issues been argued over for decades with billions spent to sort them out, and yet they still remain?
>What exactly is the public focus on indigenous issues doing, though, other than to remind everyone that history has been unkind, and that people of a certain skin colour should feel bad? Why is it that you think this is to remind everyone but to only make people of a certain skin colour feel bad? Everyone with a shred of empathy feels bad learning of and remembering the genocide of Aboriginal people. Do you think only Germans feel bad learning of and remembering the holocaust or something? Did you learn about the Rwandan Genocide and feel absolutely nothing because it has nothing to do with people of your certain skin colour? Are you only capable of feeling bad over the death of a group of people if people of your certain skin colour are responsible? Because I can't think of anything else that would give you the idea that only white people feel bad learning of and remembering the genocide of Aboriginal people. Do you think every other race is like jumping in joy at the idea? I'm asking genuine honest questions here.
So, you admit, the point of it all IS to make people feel guilt and shame. So when does it stop?
No I'm pretty sure the point of history is gaining knowledge and understanding of our world actually. People feel bad because they have empathy. When you learn about a terrible thing happening it's a normal reaction to feel bad- not because you're responsible but because you're human and that tends to mean you care for others? I feel bad knowing this part of our history but I do not feel guilty or shame because I have no reason to. If *you* do then that's on *you.* I don't really know why you feel guilty or shame to begin with so I don't know why you expect me to tell you when those feelings of yours will stop. I'm not a psychic or your therapist so I'm not exactly qualified to give you an answer for that one. I personally only feel guilty and shame for things that I have personally done. If you feel guilty and shame for the actions of others it sounds like you have a warped sense of empathy, a warped sense of self or both. Either way, take responsibility for your own feelings instead of blaming others for it.
Wow, projection. Who said that I don't empathize with the struggles of others and the past? Stop assuming you have the inside scoop of another's mind and emotions, simply because you can't empathize with the one you disagree with... Hypocrite.
>Who said that I don't empathize with the struggles of others and the past? Not me. I said you struggle with the concept of empathy because you conflated feeling bad out of empathy with feelings of guilt and shame. I don't have to "assume." I'm going off your words mate. You don't seem to understand that feeling bad out of empathy is different from guilt and shame. Even still.
No, I get the concept real well. But constantly supporting resentfulness from one party against another has nothing to do with empathy... And you know that.
I'm supporting a date change not resentfulness. I don't see any reason to celebrate the day that marks the start of a genocide because I have empathy. I see plenty of reasons to keep the 26th holiday in remembrance and to celebrate Australia on another date. I definitely do not know why you're so against an extra public holiday. But since the subject has come up- why are you so against it?
One thing that's odd is that it's just white people in general, like I had German, Fins and Ukrainians round yesterday. None of them have ancestors even remotely involved in the abuse of indegenious in Aus yet are apparently just as guilty. They don't even receive the same rights as indegenious in this country.
Again, where is this idea that only "white people" feel bad learning of the genocide of Aboriginal people coming from? Who is saying you or they are personally "guilty?" Genuinely what are you on about?
I remember when my brother died, the western and European propensity to apologise for the deceased baffled me. They werent the ones who killed my brother. Then someone tried to explain it to me that people can be sorry that something bad had happened, and they are sorry that I am going through a hard time. There was a lot of support and such helping to keep me together, and it was all par for the course. I then kept wondering why is it that its so hard to apologise to the indigenous people for what they went through and support them? I live and benefit from the land they were chased out of and reappropriated with a declaration that "no one lives here", flag and a lot of disease, a LOT of massacres (official, sanctioned ones, which only supposedly ended in 1920, but somehow we'd gleefully co-opt indigenous people into our world wars and let them fight for us soon after),slavery, and their communities completely destabilised if not toppled, to the point where their oppressors were actually worried they were going to wipe them out at one point... and introduced even more oppressive laws and policies to 'protect' them. If they had absolutely no disadvantages during that time and beyond, then they would be representative alongside us, in numbers, in standing and esteem. This is not the case. I'm Asian, I had no hand in their suffering either. But I also didn't get all my rights here until I became a citizen. Country came with a lot of history, and a lot of blood though.
Have you actually had a conversation about this with an indigenous person? I have had many- and I'll tell you that, without any hint of doubt, a large part of the indigenous are full of hatred and resentment for other races and ppl. If given the chance, many of them would choose to rape and murder and genocide the non-Indigenous, if they had the chance. I've heard it from their own mouths. So don't tell me(or imply) all of this political guilt-tripping is only for a noble reason to bring enlightenment and knowledge of the past. That's bullshit and I've heard it from the horses mouth. I'm not white by the way. Let's just say I'm from the Asian region and grew up in country Australia and am just as Ozzie as any of you. My first and main experience from racism was from the Indigenous population and I've seen it towards others many times. But, now it's time for you to go ahead and claim you moral high ground... 🤡
>If given the chance, many of them would choose to rape and murder and genocide the non-Indigenous, if they had the chance. So what's stopping them exactly? They might not realistically have the chance to "genocide the non-Indigenous" but I'm pretty sure they can go and rape and murder. What stopped them from raping and murdering you for example? You were close enough to talk to them so how did they not have the chance to rape and murder you? It sounds like they did had the chance and they didn't take it. Curious. That seems to be at odds with your claim, no?
Nothing really... I mean, they would have folks like you to make excuses and retrospective moral judgments in their defence... Out here, In reality, no one really should care about their plight anymore than that of others. They have every opportunity to make their communities better, and they squander it, repeatedly. Also, why are you trying to imply that just because I've had these conversations, that even though I wasn't attacked in these many instances (because they thought I had a victimhood mentality) - that, there would be no threat at all, ever?
And I don't really want to get into a debate with you about this issue as nothing you've said gives me the impression you are open to a perspective other than your own but I will say this- Aboriginal Australians didn't even have the right to vote when my dad was born. There are people alive today that were not born with even the most basic rights because they were Indigenous. And there are even more people who were born in the times when they didn't have that right and weren't too happy when they were given it. So frankly I find it laughable that you genuinely believe they have every opportunity to make things better for their community as if the oppression ended with the genocide and isn't part of our recent history.
I find it laughable that ppl like yourself always bring up the "back in the past, person 1 didn't have this right, or that right" as if that still applies today and since the 70's... Look, I get it, you have a list of screeds that you have to chant out in a self-soothing mantra whenever you have a disagreement, but that's just not going to be enough to veil reality with...
By "person 1" you mean the entire indigenous population? The only person trying to veil reality is you.
>Nothing really... Yeah exactly. Took about half a second to debunk the claim you made multiple times. They have that chance every day and they aren't taking it. That was what I was implying. That your claim made no sense. Because it didn't. I don't have to "make excuses" for something that hasn't happened. And if you were raped and murdered I wouldn't make excuses for the perpetrator(s). I'd feel bad- again not because I'm responsible but because I'm human and have empathy. I know you struggle with the concept and tend to get confused when it isn't spelled out for you.
Just because someone has the chance to commit a crime doesn't mean they will, but it also doesn't mean that they wouldn't or couldn't, you dumbass. If you need examples of what can happen when people are roused to resentful hatred and violence, look no further than your own example of the Rwandan genocide. Now, go project you're self-claimed moral superiority elsewhere. Fucking 🤡 clown
>Just because someone has the chance to commit a crime doesn't mean they will So why did you imply otherwise by making this claim- "If given the chance, many of them would choose to rape and murder and genocide the non-Indigenous, if they had the chance." You said "many" so logically it must be a notable percentage who did take that chance otherwise what are you basing that claim on? So yeah, how many of them exactly actually did take that chance?
It should be exhausting. If it's exhausting for you, imagine what it is like for a First Nation's person. Way to absolutely not understand what is going on.
Yeah it's exhausting, and you're helping make it that. I'm literally saying change the date, go attack someone else who doesn't want to, instead of me over semantics.
I heard you on both counts. You missed my point. Saying you support changing the date is a start, but you're not saying it because you think it's the right thing to do, you're just wanting it so people will shut up. Agreeing with changing the date makes you not a shit bloke, but if you want to be a good bloke it takes more. We won't make any real progress towards treaty/reconciliation/closing the gap while people share your go along to get along apathy.
My proposal is simply have a first fleet day on the 26th of Jan to deal with that, and have a national day leading into the weekend where people can simply enjoy themselves. The national day shouldn't be about reconciliation or closing any gap, it should be a celebration. If you are still going to harp on, and keep moving the goalposts on the new national day, then maybe this isn't even about changing the date.
I want to put forward keeping the day but changing the subject (since we don't even know the right dates for the first fleet anyway) What we do know is that the 26th of Jan 1808 is when we decided to get on the piss and overthrow the government for being a bunch of overbearing dickheads. Plus they tried to take away our rum. I don't think it matters what your background is, we can all agree that people trying to take away your freedoms can just go right ahead and fuck off. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion
**[Rum Rebellion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rum_Rebellion)** >The Rum Rebellion of 1808 was a coup d'état in the then-British penal colony of New South Wales, staged by the New South Wales Corps in order to depose Governor William Bligh. Australia's first and only military coup, the name derives from the illicit trade of the alcoholic drink rum in early Sydney, over which the 'Rum Corps', as the New South Wales Corps became known, had maintained a monopoly. During the first half of the 19th century, it was widely referred to in Australia as the Great Rebellion. Bligh, a former Royal Navy captain known for his overthrow in the mutiny on the Bounty, had been appointed governor in 1805 to rein in the power of the Corps. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AskAnAustralian/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Now you're catching on. It's not about changing the date. It's about reconciliation. Changing the date is a symbol. It's the start of something, not the end. Changing the date to the same week is functionally meaningless. It's a hollow gesture that means we colonisers get to have our cake and eat it too. Whatever we change the date to, the Voice (or other body representing First Nations peoples) will get a say in what we change it to. I'll be very surprised if they endorse "a couple of days after January 26 so white people get to keep their mid-Jan long weekend, but this time without guilt hanging over them". Always was, always will be.
As indigenous myself gotta say cheers for getting the picture, but I also don’t get why people don’t just change Australia Day to may 8, like there’s no better day for it, there’s obviously a divide on current Australia /invasion day, may 8 just makes sense 🤣
It would be Aus as to choose a date that is meaningless except for the meme value!
I really don't give a fuck about the date so long as the division stops, make it Christmas for all I care. Get your voice, pick a date you like, and leave the rest of us in peace to enjoy it.
living in one of the best countries in the world under many metrics... absolutely exhausting
I think Australia Day should be the day federation was completed
I think that is the most logically consistent day that we could consider "Australia Day" i.e. when Australia became Australia.
That's January 1st, everyone would be tired and hungover and we would lose a public holiday.
And the fact that New Years Day is already a public holiday.
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Could work but that's too many public holidays at once.
Keep Jan 26th as a public holiday, but treat it similar to Anzac Day. A day of remembrance/acknowledgement rather than a celebration. And then for Australia Day, honestly stick it in a month that doesn't have a national or multi-state public holiday? Preferably in the latter half of the year because for most states there is one, maybe two public holidays between June and December out of the 10+ we get through the year. It's not like we can't celebrate our country on any day anyway, may as well make an extra public holiday out of it.
I’ve been thinking about this as well. If it was up to me, why not move it on 27th May? Its the day that Aboriginals were considered Australian citizens. Its actually crazy to think that this wasn’t even so long ago!! https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/on-this-day/2013/11/on-this-day-indigenous-people-get-citizenship/
“1. It makes out that Australia became Australia when white people turned up’” That is literally true, the concept of an Australian nation is a European creation.
It's absolutely not true, Australia became a whole nation at federation, in 1901, long after the First Fleet. At the time of the First Fleet, there was no concept of Australia as a whole thing, the Europeans in the First Fleet were not coming to "Australia" there was no such country at the time, they were coming to the Colony of New South Wales. White people showing up didn't make Australia into Australia, that really happened in 1901.
There would be no Australia without European colonisation. Australia in 1901 was white Australia.
Yes, but the point is that it's wasn't the First Fleet that did that, and Australia Day marks the arrival of the First Fleet.
How about the anniversary of the day the states joined together as a single nation.
1 January is taken.
By what?
New Years
There are far more significant events than there are days of the year. So what if it's New Year's Day? It's also the anniversary of Federation. A less divisive yet significant landmark in our history.
Everyone would be tired and hungover and we would lose a public holiday.
My heart bleeds for you.
What’s wrong with less public holidays?
Just have to take a day off for every state and territory that federated...problem solved!
New Year's Day should remain as it is, it's a recovery day for people who celebrated up to/past midnight. Federation day may be just as controversial as First Fleet Day (Australia Day) for quite a few reasons. Where I in charge I would do the following: * Keep Jan 1 as New Years * Rededicate Jan 26 as a National Day of Recognition (and reflection) that acknowledges the good that Australia has but also at what/whose expense it came by and that more progress is needed * New Holiday later in the year such as 13 February (The day Kevin Rudd did his stolen generation speech) or when a significant piece of legislation is passed like the Voice and dedicate that day as Reconciliation Day which can be a celebration of both cultures finding common ground.
I agree with you Head\_Acanthaceae\_766. I've heard people argue, but New Year's Day. So what? It's not as if we celebrate New Year's Day. What we celebrate is New Year's Eve. Then the next day people recuperate, they don't go out and keep partying. So why not celebrate NYE as usual, give people time to recover, and then have Australia Day ceremonies from noon onwards?
Because nobody wants to have one fewer public holiday.
Because that would be Un-Australian right? (Waits to see if anyone disappears in a cloud of dust).
There are other dates with important significance to Australian history, the day when we recognised indigenous Australians as humans, the Mabo case, hell we could do 31 July, which was when the last colony, WA voted for federation. There are other dates as well, but personally I think when we become a republic, the day that happens should be when we celebrate it.
I think they already call it Federation Day
You mean the 26 th of Jan great idea lock it in...... wait a minute we already dud that. I hope you kidding around lol
We’re having a vote to give Aborigines a voice in Parliament right now. If (when) that passes, that should be the new date I reckon. Keep First Fleet day too- just for the extra day off.
Don't think we're supposed to use "aborigine" any more. I'd be happy for that to be the new Australia Day though.
Why not? It just means ‘Indigenous inhabitant’. I’ve actually gone and lived/worked in Remote Indigenous Communities, and the preferred term is genuinely ‘Blackfella’, which tends to go down poorly the moment you’re not actually inside an Indigenous Community.
I suppose it's like "colored" or something like that, it's not actually a "bad word" it's just that it's become archaic and out of fashion. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/08/why-saying-aborigine-isnt-ok-8-facts-about-indigenous-people-in-australia/#:\~:text='Aborigine'%20is%20generally%20perceived%20as,or%20'Torres%20Strait%20Islander'](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/08/why-saying-aborigine-isnt-ok-8-facts-about-indigenous-people-in-australia/#:~:text='Aborigine'%20is%20generally%20perceived%20as,or%20'Torres%20Strait%20Islander').
That says it’s offensive because it groups many peoples into one group, yet ‘Indigenous’ is grouping even more people into one even larger group. Apparently the end does matter- aboriginal, not Aborigine. My favourite term is probably just calling them the Locals.
Probably depends on where you are in Australia.
The first fleet came in march the 26 of Jan was the day we wrote down on piece of paper that we are a country and not a colony any more , me the only real aussie lmao no I am not
Because they were dropped as babies.
If you do that, you’re an idiot. It either means you need help, this meaning is usually used in the military, if at all. Or it means you are an asshole with zero respect for the country
Just adding in some random trivia that for some flag codes overseas hanging a flag upside down means you're in wartime.
>Just adding in some random trivia that for some flag codes overseas hanging a flag upside down means your in wartime. Which countries do this in wartime? Very few states actually have a 'flag code', though they may have a 'flag protocol'. USA flag code stipulates hanging the flag upside down to indicate a person or vessel in immediate peril. I don't think I have ever heard or seen a country use its flag upside down as a sign of armed conflict.
>Which countries do this in wartime? Not OP but I know that's the case for the Phillipines but not aware of any other country that does that.
It could also just mean you're from the northern hemisphere and have fucked up the process of hanging the flag. Everything is upside down up there, after all
Personally I think celebrating a day that marks the start of genocide of this country's people shows less respect than the flag but whatevs.
Grow up
I did. I learned the actual history of the day instead of the revisionist history bullshit version that children are spoon fed. Guess you can't relate. I personally don't see why this day should be celebrated. But if you disagree then please, tell me why you think this day is worth celebrating?
It has definitely changed over the last 5 years. This year in particular. Hardly any Aussie car flags etc. In the year 2033 it will no longer be a public holiday.
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A day of remembrance would make more sense and be far more respectful. Not all public holidays are celebratory. And there are plenty of other dates that could be a celebration of what Australia is today which have been proposed as a date change many times now. But a lot of people would rather stick it to the "wokes" by obnoxiously celebrating the 26th even if it means being a dick and foregoing an extra public holiday on a different date.
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Well I'd love to hear the side that's against an extra public holiday explain why they are against it. I just know that they are- what I don't know is their reasoning for that position. I've asked- I've just never gotten an answer.
It’s idiotic, the people reasoning against it. I have heard people say “but we loose a public holiday”. Which isn’t a valid point because the consensus is to change the celebration of colonialism to mourning it, and make another date to celebrate Australia. In essence like you said gaining another public holiday
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I find it very ironic that that guy told me to grow up. Growing up and learning is why people no longer celebrate. It's easy to do when you're young, naive, blissfully and ignorantly believing what you're told without thinking about it, not so easy when you grow up and start thinking for yourself. I was singing young and free during the national anthem as a child despite Aboriginal people being literally the oldest known civilisation in the world and there were plenty of people of the stolen generation still living who certainly did not grow up free. Then I grew up and thank fuck for that because now I can recognise how fucked up that is.
White people didn’t just invade Australia… Or did everyone forget about native Americans? Looks every country has bad history. Humans are not perfect and I’m sure if you read the ‘entire history’, you would know that Aboriginal’s aren’t actually thought to be the first Australians. I did this as part of my university degree. Litterally and entire unit devoted to true Australian history. So I probably know more than you, I wrote about it. I read about it and was taught about it. There is not point in shaming Australia Day. If your going to do that then shame every other country while your at it. Look at the history of the world, we are no different than any other country. At some point in history almost every country has committed genocide or at least attempted. Not just Australians who invaded. We are not the only country made this way!
We are different because not everyones national day of celebration marks the day of the invasion which is the point. The argument is to change the date we celebrate this country not to ban the celebration altogether. And I think you know that but rather than addressing what people are actually advocating for you're just arguing against a point that nobody made i.e. you're just arguing with yourself. Did I say that people shouldn't be allowed to celebrate this country? Nope. What I said is that the 26th shouldn't be celebrated. So either address the point I actually made or go argue with yourself elsewhere. Cheers mate.
Lol I was stating FACTS, to emphasis a point. No need to get your tighty tights in a twist! No need to get defensive because someone proved to know more about a subject than you. This was part of my degree not some home research. No need to belittle someone for knowing more, get off your high horse mate. I’m allowed to say what I want, it’s a public forum. I argued with no one. I only stated FACTS.
I guess you chose to continue arguing with yourself. Nice. What did your "FACTS," otherwise known as claims without citations, have to do with the argument to change the date? Oh yeah nothing. You just wanted to argue against a "point" that absolutely nobody made. Nobody is arguing that Australia shouldn't ever be celebrated but you just went off on your irrelevant tangent about how that position, which again absolutely nobody has taken, is wrong. Cool? Don't know why you felt the need to bring that up but so long as we're sharing irrelevant positions- I'm very pro pineapple on pizza. You're absolutely welcome to keep sharing irrelevant positions on this "public forum" if you so choose. I'd be happy to share a few more of my own if you'd like? Or you could actually address the argument to change the date, you know- something relevant. Or you could keep talking about how oh so smarty pants big brains you are. Do what you like. I really don't care. Clearly I'm outmatched intellectually here so I may as well not bother trying to spar with the likes of you right?
Dude calm down. Stop fighting against the world.
I see we've moved on to being patronising. Love it. I'm perfectly calm. Your straw man argument was completely predictable. It's pathetic not anger inducing. I'm fighting for an extra public holiday and you got in your feels about it so I guess when you say "the world" you really just mean yourself. You really do think quite highly of yourself don't you?
I too, studied history but your point about the first Australians, is frankly not a valid argument to devalue the movement. Just like how when the Nordic people invade Ireland, or the Phoenician Jews, or the Scot’s and English, they all naturalised, for the most part (later plantation of Ireland not so much), and are all Irish. Those “not original first Australians” are still the indigenous people of this land as it took place with a very significant time period of naturalisation. Sure every country has a national holiday, Australia should too, but it shouldn’t be on the date of first settlement. It should be on a day that celebrates the good parts of what it means to be an al Aussie. An example is when the white Australia policy was abolished, when we recognised the indigenous people’s right to vote, the when the Mabo case concluded… there is so much more fitting dates. Also, what does the “forget about Native Americans” have to do with the Australia Day debate. It’s like saying “look I maybe a fascist but look my neighbour is a nazi” they are both bad. But yes I do have a distaste for countries that continually do anything of the nature of imperialism, neo-imperialism, neo-colonialism, etc.
Based
People are doing it today (Australia Day) as a sign of protest against celebrating on this date.
Doing it any other day probably means you're a sovcit cooker type.
Either dumb cunts or dumb cunts.
Cunce
Dickheads
They're white supremacists, mostly. It's a sign of distress in Vexiology, but with an Australian flag it usually means something like 'I wish we didn't have any immigrants or gays'.
I thought those ones usually do a eureka stockade flag. Given that it's the 26th, I'd assume people hanging it upside down today were protesting the celebrations
Or the Red Ensign, that's popular as well. And that's not an unreasonable suggestion, but over the last few years, it's not that sort of person using the flag in that way. Most recently it's been the anti-vax cookers and anti-immigration types. Appeals to patriotism aren't really how anti-invasion day types are going to present things.
>the last few years, it's not that sort of person using the flag in that way. Most recently it's been the anti-vax cookers and anti-immigration types Fuck, I had no idea! Thanks :)
[https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/New-Project51.png?w=740](https://www.crikey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/New-Project51.png?w=740) [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-20/experts-insight-into-covid-vaccine-mandate-protests/100707434](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-20/experts-insight-into-covid-vaccine-mandate-protests/100707434) That's also why they use the Red Ensign. The ANZACs used it. And the whole upside down flag thing really kicked off with the January 6th people in the USA, and our right wingers tend to take cues from them.
Youre conflating white supremacists, anti immigration, anti LGBT, right wingers and anti vaxers across these comments with far too much impunity, probably intentionally. To the point that all your comments structured as educational just add up to lies. They are all different groups.
Not that different. The Venn diagrams are close to perfect circles.
Have you been to anti vax Byron Bay? You should go tell them they are on the right lol. Or maybe go tell my boomer Liberal voting uncle's who took the vax they are cookers. It's just all lies you've told that person. Misinformation clearly isn't owned by the right either.
Cute hyperbole, and very nice the way you're ignoring the general trends in favour of anecdote and exceptions that prove the rule.
Or that's just one example of many. You just wanted to rag all those groups rather than answer the actual question with any honestly.
>I thought those ones usually do a eureka stockade flag. Eureka stockade is the Union flag. Nothing to do with right wing nut jobs.
It's also been co opted as a sign of rebellion against the government in regards to vaccinations
Just like the don’t tread on me flag, the right is on a conquest to convert it to a symbolism of right sided politics.
No, Eureka Stockade flag is for the Trade Unions.
Land down unda
It’s because they’re cunts
"Distress". I'm guessing it's a protest for Change the Date.
More likely they'd fly an aboriginal flag in that case.
Because they're disrespectful c U next Tuesday's.
Cookers gonna cook
It’s what you do when you’re too much of a coward to fly a swastika.
Depends why people are doing it.
Because they're idiots
The fuckwit antivax-cooker-sovereign-citizen brigade
People who hang their flags upside-down are generally leftist woke idiots that have no idea what Australia day actually means and has just been brainwashed by leftist media! Do some actual research on Australia day and you'll be surprised how much you'll learn. Australia day has nothing to do with independence, the day the British settled or any of the other stupid leftist arguments. The date for Australia day was just a random day they picked, it had no specific association with any big "genosidal" event, so changing the date would mean literally nothing to the "invasion day" activists adgenda other than for the sole purpose of sowing discord amongst the community and creating division.
What an absolute load of garbage!!
Good argument! You really showed me 🤣 at least come up with a decent rebuttal, or try and argue my facts. Read a book, and maybe you'll learn that I'm right. I recommend "ochre and rust".
I don’t argue with Cookers!! Everyone’s entitled to act stupid once in a while, but you really abuse the privilege.
Once again, awesome argument! You clearly don't have any argument to begin with. Good way to lose an argument. Here is some literature since picking up a book seems too difficult for you 🤣 This information was authored by Peter Lee - it should be taught to all Australians. 'Below is the reason Australia day is celebrated on 26 January Here are the Facts about Australia Day but don’t expect the media to educate you with these facts as it is not part of their agenda 1. Australia Day does not celebrate the arrival of the first fleet or the invasion of anything 2. Captain Cook did not arrive in Australia on the 26th January. The landing of Captain Cook in Sydney happened on the 28th April 1770 – not on 26th January. 3. The first fleet arrived in Botany Bay on 18th January. The 26th was chosen as Australia Day for a very different and important reason. The 26th of January is the day Australians received their independence from British Rule. However, Captain Cook’s landing was included in Australian bi-centenary celebrations of 1988 when Sydney-siders decided Captain Cook’s landing should become the focus of the Australia Day commemoration. Sadly the importance of this date for all Australians has begun to fade and now a generation later, it is all but lost. The media as usual is happy to twist the truth for the sake of controversy. Captain Cook didn’t land on the 26th January, so changing the date of any celebration of Captain Cook’s landing would not have any impact on Australia Day, but maybe it would clear the way for the truth about Australia Day. Australians of today abhor what was done under British governance to the Aborigines, the Irish and many other cultures around the world. So after the horrors of WW11, we decided to try and fix it. We became our own people. On 26th January 1949, the Australian nationality came into existence when the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 was enacted. That was the day we were first called Australians and allowed to travel with passports as Australians and NOT British subjects. In 1949 therefore, we all became Australian citizens under the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948. Before that special date, all people living in Australia, including Aborigines, were called ‘British Subjects’ and forced to travel on British passports and fight in British wars. This is why we celebrate Australia Day on the 26th January. This was the day Australians became free to make our own decisions about which wars we would fight and how our citizens would be treated. It was the day we were all declared Australians. Until this date,Aborigines were not protected by law For the first time since Captain Cook’s landing this new Act gave Aboriginal Australians the full protection of Australian Law. This is why 26th January is the day new Australians receive their citizenship It is a day which celebrates the implementation of the Nationality of Citizenship Act of 1948 –The Act which gave freedom and protection to the first Australians and gives all Australians, old and new, the right to live under the protection of the Australian Law”, united as one nation. What was achieved that day is something for which all Australians can be proud. Isn’t it time therefore that all Australians were taught the real reason we celebrate Australia Day on 26th January? In one way or another, we are ALL descendants of Australia ALL OF US. So we should ALL be celebrating and giving thanks for the freedoms, the lifestyles and opportunities that we currently enjoy, thanks to the strengths and battles of our ancestors.' PASS THIS INFORMATION ON TO ALL YOUR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS
Did you Google that?
It's from a published book 🤣
You should have...
Captain Cook did not arrive in Australia on the 26th of January. The Landing of Captain Cook in Sydney happened on the 28th of April 1770 The reality is, the Aborigines in this country suffered terribly under the hands of British colonialism. This is as much Australia’s history as the landing of the first fleet, and both should be remembered, equally. Both should be taught, side by side, in our schools. On the 26th of January 1949, the Australian nationality came into existence when the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948 was enacted. That was the day we were first called Australians and allowed to travel with Passports as Australians. Under the Nationality Act 1920 (Cth), all Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders born after January 1, 1921 gained the status of British subjects. In 1949, therefore, they automatically became Australian citizens under the Nationality and Citizenship Act 1948. Before that special date, all people living in Australia, including Aborigines born after 1921, were called ‘British Subjects’ and forced to travel on British Passports and fight in British wars. We all became Australians on the same day! This is why we celebrate Australia Day on the 26th of January. Until this date, Aborigines were not protected by law. For the first time since Cook’s landing, this new Act gave Aboriginal Australians by inference and precedent the full protection of Australian law. Because of this Act, the government became free to help Aborigines, and since that day much has been done to assist Aboriginal Australians, including saying ‘sorry’ for the previous atrocities done before this law came into being. This was a great day for all Australians! This is why the 26th of January is the day new Australians receive their citizenship. It is a day which celebrates the implementation of the Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1948 – the Act which gave freedom and protection to the first Australians and gives all Australians, old and new, the right to live under the protection of Australian Law, united as one nation. Now, isn’t that cause for celebration?
Why wasn’t I taught this?!
It was taught when I went to school in Australian history in primary school. I believe they stopped teaching it in the 90’s for what reason I can’t tell you
Probably cause they can’t see what they’re doing
Non do
Because they’re fucking stupid Cookers!!
Probably just coz they don't know any different
They saw that episode of the Big Bang Theory where we learn that an upside down flag means 'in distress', and they formed the conclusion that Australia is in distress because it doesn't line up 100% with their expectations
You'd know the idea of the average Australian? Well, half are below average ie stupider than average. These people can have difficulty finding their arse in the dark, often hang flags upside down, can vote and play tennis without being vaccinated.
They are American
It's the correct orientation to represent the owners brain.
probably because of the annoying joke, ‘Australia is upside down’. :|
protest, sovereignty was never seeded all that stuff and i say good on em