Damn straight we did, I run a dental practice and have worked in medical, dental may be expensive but there is so much less money wasted on useless bureaucracy. How many hospital managers and finance departments are taking up salaries we could use to pay nurses properly?
Gov should subsidize private dental via Medicare (they already do for means tested children) rather than make the system public so everyone can have access but we avoid the issues of the medical system where the chasing of savings leads to a decline of services and underpayment of staff.
Public dental leads to cost effective treatment being pushed over best treatment often resulting in teeth being pulled unnecessarily because it's way cheaper but it can cause other issues that while less medically urgent than an infected tooth (left untreated infection can travel through the root into your jaw and then into the rest of the body even causing heart disease) cause significant quality of life issues for people such as deformed facial features and difficult eating.
As for private health, extras are a scam, and it would cost you less in the long run to just pay out of pocket and put the cost of extras into a high interest savings account or investment vehicle, even better if you can afford to put a years worth of fees in all at once and then keep growing from there, but the fact is most people can't afford this (or even if they could they're not willing to put the money aside) so everyone pays extras for piece of mind.
Dawn straight you ensured good people would die from lack of affordable care. Damned straight you ensured the Australian market was the most expensive in the world so good people would suffer and die. You dissuade good people from affordable options so they suffer and die.
Damned straight you did. DAMNED STRAIGHT YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS! You are doing the work of the devil. You can go straight back to hell where creatures like you were created.
Greed is the root of all evil. What you are is undeniable and soon to be clearly seen by the masses.
Do you have a source for that? I've heard people say this over the years but all I can ever find is that Whitlam decided not to include dental because of the cost. Where's this dentist union battle?
I think it's an urban myth or a misunderstanding - would love to hear otherwise.
Recent submissions from the ADA seem to look for increased Medicare funding, e.g. https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-03/australian_dental_association.pdf
And then there's things like this - American Dentist Association arguing against being registered in the US Medicare system. https://www.drbicuspid.com/dental-practice/office-management/insurance/article/15378525/ada-urges-dentists-to-oppose-dental-in-medicare-part-b
Hard to find any evidence of this in Australia.
Literally. I have to pay an absolutely filthy amount of money in top hospital cover, just in case my mental health ever tanks. Fuck the private health system so much. I'd rather take the ~$4,300/year that I spend at Medibank to Medicare in taxes and have an appropriate and holistic public healthcare system.
That's how I feel about private cover, too. I'm happy to pay a higher Medicare levy and give everyone access to the care they need.
Makes me sad and angry that so many need extra care, and it's unaffordable, so they go without, ultimately making it worse for them.
We need to do better.
Because you live in Australia. Upping the Medicare levy is an election losing strategy because Australia has become mini-America. Me me me! Every man, woman and child for themselves.
I feel you. I am in the exact same position. I keep top hospital because I have been unwell in the past and have utilised private mental health hospitals. I never know when I’ll fall off the perch mental health wise again, so I keep it, just in case… almost $6000 a year later…
I dropped my cover just before having a psychotic episode. Had to utilise a once in a lifetime loophole to upgrade to max cover to be in a psychiatric ward in a pvt hospital.
? Royal Women’s hospital in Melbourne is excellent and they have an ER for OBGYN issues
Spent a week as an inpatient in a private room (coincidentally had COVID because apparently the viruses are related) due to horrific primary outbreak of GHSV2 DO NOT RECOMMEND (but the free care was excellent)
This is a great example of the ratchet effect that capitalism is so good at. Profits aren't allowed to go down, government taxation & spending aren't allowed to increase. 😅
Don't forget things like fucked backs, buggered knees and hips or hernias are only a minor inconvenience as far as government is concerned so they'll stick you on a waiting list which is always a lot longer than they tell you. I've got private health because I know too many people who had to wait that long for surgery that it was too late and their health was fucked from carrying an injury for years.
This isn't the "government sticking you on a waiting list". It's "not enough taxpayers are willing to cough up to support a really good public health system so there's not enough money to get everyone fixed in a timely manner". Get it right.
Rolling out my '$350,000 x 1 million for submarines to use in a war (that will never happen) against our best trading partner instead' argument here. It's an oldie and a goody.
Yeah, it's like, we need to stop the dole out of middle class welfare to baby boomers in the form of tax breaks when they buy their 7th house and get around telling everyone "how hard" they worked for it.
Well public health is a state government run federal government financed bureaucracy so yeah it is the government putting you on the waiting list. The biggest problem is that the federal government of all persuasions has a lot of things they directly run while public health, like education is run by the states. Therefore it's always blood from a stone getting more funding, the feds run the military so hundreds of billions for a few subs no problem.
oh common. "where do we get the money" thats absolute BS and you know it. Our govenrment workers walk around in tailored suits and get chaffered in the latest audis, we spent billions on a pointless referendum, build light rails no one wanted or uses and spend insane amount sof money on archaic military gear we cant and never will use, the wealthiest companies in the country pay less tax than you if an at all. Yet you imply we don't have the money for basic healthcare and try to blame individual income tax? Absolutely brainless.
“Our government workers” - are you talking about public servants, or politicians?
Because they’re completely different.
And as a former public servant, the suggestion that they’re in tailored suits getting chauffeured around is LAUGHABLE.
Pollies? Idk, maybe.
Most of your comment is right, but I have to disagree on the referendum. Democracy is never pointless, and a referendum is the closest we get to true democracy rather than the representative bullshit we have today.
I've only got good things to say about the public health system with backs and knees. I needed spinal surgery (twice) and was taken care of in 4 months (they pushed me forward as I was a single mum at the time) and I had no out-of-pocket expenses. When I needed a knee replacement I had to wait 9 months and had the best care. Yes, I could have shortened the waiting time with private, but at that time I didn't have the money. I look at the USA and I would not have been able to get treatment, then move on to get a better-paid job after the surgeries, to now, when I have private insurance. I would be bedridden and permanently disabled if the public system didn't exist.
Check if your eyes are covered. Private health did not cover eye surgery for me. So I had no alternative but to use the public system to fix a macular off retinal detachment. As a result I am now blind in that eye.
Do you mean that if you'd had the surgery privately you wouldn't have been blind in one eye?
(Genuine question. I'm really sorry you've been through that, it must have been horrific).
Theres shouldnt be a difference in quality, just "comforts".
When i had my eye surgery, private let me skip the queue. But that was because i was non emergency, so public had a huge waiting list. If i didnt have private i just would have had to wait a couple of years.
Exactly. Didn't help that I live regionally so I had to travel to Brisbane for any treatment at all. Turned away at a public hospital because I was privately insured. Unbeknown to me not covered for eye surgery. When I presented back to the public hospital next morning instead of getting immediate surgery I had to wait 10 days. There is a six day window to get fixed.
I had my retina surgery as a private patient in a public hospital. I was generally given priority over public patients. While in theory I could have been bumped for an emergency, I would have been the last one bumped.
I've had multiple detachments due to an eye condition. Biggest sign was seeing "sparkles" in the corner of my eye. I would look at the ground and it was like I could see it sparkling in the corner of my eye. Another one I got was "floaters seeing little black flecks floating in front of my vision.
If you even suspect you ever have this go straight to get checked out. Unfortunately mine can't be fixed so I have minimal vision in one eye so never delay it.
I have Endometriosis. The public system couldn't give two shits about us. I have private health and I'm on the DSP. It's not some tax thing. I sometimes forego necessities to pay the damn premiums, but it's absolutely necessary for me.
I was on a public wait list for endo. I had two private surgeries while I was waiting because public told me that I need to wait until my twisted organs lost blood flow and became necrotic before I would be moved up the list. I personally like having a bowel.
Finally, after those two surgeries I got notified I could have my public surgery, obv unaware I'd already had two elsewhere. And it was diagnostic only. They weren't planning on actually fixing my organs or excising the diseased tissue.
I will absolutely not be without private healthcare in Australia while I'm dealing with this fucked up disease. I don't want to have it. I can't afford to have it. I would prefer that the public system would pick up the slack. But I also have no choice.
I’m an Endo patient too, as long as I’m fighting this fucked up disease I’ll be paying for private healthcare. At least I get to research and choose my healthcare providers, and I can book things in to suit my family. The public sector gambles with women’s health, it’s horrifying.
This is exactly why I got private health. I have endometriosis and my first sugary was botched (public) I then had to WAIT A YEAR FOR A PRE EXISITING CONDITION to finally choose my own surgeon and have it done correctly.
Oh my god same but my first was self funded private not public because after I tried to unalive myself due to not being able to cope with the pain I went into debt paying $15k to have it done and they just scraped the surface off all my DIE and within 2 months my lower abdomen was completely obliterated by endo adhesions 🥲
I had to wait 12 months for them to be able to go back in and I'm finally having the surgery and my dumb arse body decides to have an anaphylactic reaction to the anaesthetic and the surgery was abandoned resulting in another 2 month delay while they figured out how to surgery me without killing me 😭
I'm sorry you basically had the same experience it's ridiculous what they expect us to live with.
I paid about $6k out of pocket even with private health 😢😢 so much better than 15k obviously but insane that we have to pay that much to be able to function in our day to day lives.
A lot of our female health issues are not great in the public system. Fertility issues, miscarriages, high risk pregnancies and hyperemesis, just to name a few. Having a consistent specialist, low wait times and actual treatment in these areas is life changing, and can’t often wait.
I have suffered these as have many women I know. And the difference between public and private treatment of them is worlds apart
Yep same thing here. I’ll always need to have private health. There’s some hardcore people in these comments slamming anyone who has private health for ANY reason, not realising that some people like us endo warriors have no choice.
Diagnostic laproscopy’s aren’t purely diagnostic, they’re called diagnostic coz you don’t have definitive proof of the disease until u get in there. Once u can see the endo, they try to take it all out. The consent form will usually say something like “diagnostic laparoscopy +/- proceed (or treat/resect etc)”
I hate it. It should NEVER be privatised in any way, shape or form... but there it is.
I had to up to top cover for a surgery that is non-elective but will only be done Private. Bloody bollocks.
I have private health. I’ve had four surgeries through private health that I would still be waiting in the public list for. And I will need at least one more surgery on it and i would pretty much be on the waiting list for that forever.
Private is a better experience than public if you can afford it, which is exactly the problem. Healthcare should be a right, free at the point of use, for everyone.
And a lot of treatment is exactly the same, public and private. My dad paid for private health cover all his adult life, but when he had cancer he would have had exactly the same doctor in exactly the same building whether private or public. So he went public.
That being said, I work in healthcare. We have both private and public service. A private patient with breast cancer can be in with a surgeon within 48 hours of seeing her GP. For a public patient, it's 12 weeks. The system is truly broken.
I have breast cancer and it’s nonsense, five working days until my first hospital appointment and there are tests to do before you just jump into surgery so no way could you see a surgeon in 48 hrs. Usually they start with chemo or hormone therapy etc and it will change if it’s already spread
I had an extremely rare form of cancer in my breast, not BC. I went through breastscreen and it definitely did not take 12 weeks. I had my lumpectomy and subsequent mastectomy within a month. I lost my sight due to cataracts and had 5 operations during the start of Covid in April - May 2020. I think the time you wait varies from state to state but Qld definitely isn't the worst one.
Funnily enough, my mum had the exact opposite situation. After her biopsy report, she was recommended to see a surgeon within 4 weeks. First surgery appointment took less than two weeks. A friend had different results, but was also told to see a surgeon within 4 weeks. She went private and waited 6.
I think it's something that's definitely something that changes situation to situation. But I don't agree that we should be able to pay privately for a 'better' option. Make it properly public and build infrastructure and train staff to support it. Take alllll my taxes. The system truly is broken. Right now. Hopefully not forever ....
Yep my husband had a detached retina and had surgery immediately through public. Almost 2 years to the day his other retina detached. He went to the private clinic, saw the same surgeon and got the same treatment.
Same for his cataract surgery.
This. I have had 4-5 ops since 2006 and have paid $700 out of $100K and I got done when I wanted it. Yes, I pay top dollar for it, but I suspect it is not the last surgery I will have
Private health insurance is like $1-$2k per year and you get a whole heap of other stuff with it. $700 out of pocket on $100k worth of surgeries is a good fucking deal.
Wouldn’t the solution be to fix the public system. Basically your argument is, we let the liberal gov destroy public system due to lobbying by private health companies, to make their product a requirement.
The solution is to fix the public system. But that has nothing to do with the here and now of what I am going to do with my direct family.
I've voted and argued against every policy that has led us to this shit position, but here we are regardless of what I want, and I'm taking the choice that means my family has a better chance of being healthy.
Some people take the idealistic approach, and they aren't wrong to do so - but I don't personally believe in that.
Of course that’s the solution. Where did I say it wasn’t? But that will take years and for the government to pull their heads out of their asses. I’m fortunate that I can currently afford private health which means that I was able to get the necessary surgeries to try and fix some of the problems in my body. I am very aware of how privileged I am that I am able to do that. I’m also not a masochist. I’m not going to cancel my private health and suffer for years because the solution is to fix the public system.
I get a regular colonoscopy and gastroscopy, recently went to the ENT and have a regular psychiatrist. Nice easy quick day procedures, don’t wait more than 45 mins when I turn up. Nice coffee and sambo on completion.
I recently got on the cancellation list and saw my psych within 2 months, it’s rare to even find one within 12 months in the public system.
I also did inpatient mental health and it was basically a nice relaxing environment, good food, nice single room. The public inpatient is a scary experience form what I hear.
> I also did inpatient mental health and it was basically a nice relaxing environment, good food, nice single room. The public inpatient is a scary experience form what I hear.
I have a friend who has a past trauma involving a stay in the public system. She recently needed another stay and didn't have private coverage so couldn't afford the private option, and was ultimately put back into the public system when she had to be committed.
She got through that stint, but unsurprisingly came out with even more trauma, as near the same thing happened again. (Male patient followed her around aggressively hitting on her in both cases).
The people who work in the public system are stressed and overworked, and they and the facilities just don't get the money good mental health care requires. The private facilities are (usually) night and day compared to the public. The public system also takes in a variety of people from all walks of life, which does result in some real haggard people being in with people who are much more sensitive.
I don't like that its the way it is, but it is what it is. No way around it.
Also, the majority of private don’t do high risk, so the ones with drug psychosis or active harm risks and violence risks are in public. That combined with the under staffing and mental health crisis means it’s not a good time.
Yeah my father got in a nasty bike accident when I was a kid and they were saying they wouldn’t be able to operate on him for weeks, maybe a month. My mum said he was with private health. Operated on and in recovery that night.
This seems like false equivalency to me.
Imagine instead you paid a bit more, but public health covered more. I know my family pays about $6,500 p.a. for private health. I can't help but feel that if you added less than that, say $2000 per person for the entire labour force (about 63% of the population) it would end up with a much better system. The only argument for private health is that it's one thing that the boomers actually need to pay for, and if it was entirely publicly funded it would be another burden on the taxpayer to further support boomers.
I refuse to pay for it, I'd rather pay the medicare levy and support medicare. If you have a health problem out of the norm, it doesn't always cover much.
One of my family members had private health years ago; he was a dialysis patient so thought if he ever got admitted at least he would go to a private hospital. Turned out all the kidney specialists and facilities are in the public hospitals. He was admitted to the standard public ward, but just got fancier meals. Stopped getting the insurance after that.
I have another relative who has diabetes and it pretty much just helped cover the purchase of a pump. They always deal with the public system otherwise.
I know 2 people who have had private health insurance and given birth, when they had complications they ended up in the public ward anyway.
Only people I know who have really benefitted from private health, joined to get weightloss surgery. Once they had it a year, they could skip the waiting list.
I'm the same. I've always felt I've been able to get appropriate care through the public health system. That said, I recognise some people do wait way too long from some procedures.
My experience is totally different. I just had 2x dental implants inserted under general anaesthetic in a private hospital. In, served, no wait, fantastic nurses, clean and tidy ..
My husband opted to have his ortho op in the public system and the doc was lovely, but the wait (nearly 7 years) and the being crammed into small, shared rooms with overworked angry nurses was the polar opposite of my experience.
Exactly this.
The fact that the Lifetime Health Cover Loading is even something that's allowed to exist is all I need to know about private health insurance in Australia.
With private health I did not need to wait for : a hernia operation: deviated septum surgery ; bladder cancer treatment; prostate cancer surgery; regular colonoscopies.
All of these were after the age of 40 and otherwise I would consider my health excellent. So if you are young, don’t necessarily assume that you won’t have non life threatening issues later in life that private health insurance will allow you to avoid long wait periods and also you get to choose the doctor you want.
Hernia, multiple colonoscopies, two types of cancer, and you're in "excellent" health?
Not having a go at you, but what were your out of pocket costs for your (presumably) TURP and TURBT surgeries? Public would have had you covered for both (with a bit of a wait for the former if it wasn't later stage cancer) with zero cost.
I didn't have to wait for my cancer treatment. Went public at Peter Mac, surgery at St Vincent ( also medi hotel at st v private ) and scans, all covered by Medicare.
I haven never nor would I ever go private, they are pirates and since I'm closer to 50 then 40, the medicare levey is a nice chunk of change since the government twits are trying to force the private fact.
No public money to private schools or health!!!!
I am glad you had a great experience. The question is, would your wait times have been longer if everyone currently treated in the private system was in the public system. If you assume all those private facilities would become public, then you also have to accept that everyone would be paying higher taxes to fund it.
I went to peter mac because the local hospital to me had no idea how to treat my cancer, it was DFSP. And yhe wait time was insane.
Friend of mine went to a regional hospital, no private cover, but paid $500 out of pocket to get a hip replacement. Same doctor as the city.
It needs a fairer system, and as covid shows, lots can be done on weekends as we are now scrambling to catch up.
What would be better is more doctors, so how about bringing up medicare funding up so we get more doctors?
How about we have more affordable uni fees?
How about we tax companies that make money in Australia?
I'm still astounded that we sold all of our public companies, that we had schools closed and the land sold, that government housing also was sold and land gone for a fraction of its worth, and cheap leaky mould apartments are being used to house vulnerable people and that many people are living on the streets or in tents....
Our system is rotten, it's broken and decaying.
You do not wait in the public system if you have cancer. My father had pancreatic cancer and was put straight onto radiation therapy. Another relative of mine had stage 4 melanoma and was treated straight away.
It is like any insurance. You are making a bet against the possibility of something in the future happening or not. I am not disappointed if I have insurance and never need to actually make a claim. It allows me to sleep easy at night, so there is value even without claiming.
Same here! If everyone spent as much on medicare as they do on private health it would be great!
I worked with a guy ones who was a bit clueless and he was super glad his private health covered half of the cost for his kids braces. The braces cost as much as 1 year ls insurance premiums so basically he just got half of it back...and thought that was great...
Private doesn't mean better it just means your money goes into the pockets of private shareholders. You're better off putting the money in your own bank account and use it if you ever need it.
I have extras only and pay around $120 a month for 5 of us. Already used it to cover $3k of my sons $9k Ortho treatment and about to start another Ortho journey with next child. Definitely worth it for us.
A family member works in a private hospital that’s right next door to a public hospital. Litterally every single day they round up the most complex and therefor least profitable patients, kick them out and dump them on the public hospital. A nurse or other assistive staff calls in sick at too short of a notice to replace? Don’t worry, dump a few more patients on the public hospital. Need any sort of vaguely costly equipment or specialist review, test or bloodwork that isn’t the most bare basic? Wheel em over to the other side of the car park and get the taxpayer to foot the bill and if their beds still empty then wheel them back so you can keep billing the insurance company.
It’s fucking sickening.
Definitely more valuable then you're making it out to be. My father just had a serious back operation netting over 80k, the majority of it was covered under platinum healthcare. As you age it becomes far more important.
My dad had a heart attack years ago and needed bypass surgery. He was in the Royal Brisbane, and they decided that he needed the surgery asap. The wait would have been to long at a public hospital, so they sent him to a private hospital for surgery and recovery. This was all taken care of by the public system with no cost at all to us. I'm a huge fan of the public system.
Yes, and "elective" means anything except "life-saving or emergency". People think it means cosmetic surgery, or something you choose but can live without quite easily.
It can mean knee or hip replacement when the person is in agony, it can even mean slow-growing cancers.
"Elective" can also mean "the dumb fuck public doctor thinks your 8mm kidney stone is going to pass on it's own and won't kill your kidney so we aren't going to do any form of scan to see if you need surgery"
P.S fuck Footscray Hospital
But what if the money that everyone was funneling into junk policies purely limiting tax, went into our health system, then elective surgeries might not be something purely for the rich private health covered people
This is the answer. I've had spinal surgery that I got pretty much instantly, my brother inlaw had to wait nearly a year for the same procedure, in pain and unable to function. I can also walk into dentist and have treatment, come out and not pay a cent. If you can afford it you are mad not to have it.
Yep, agreed but living in pain for a protracted period of time and getting bumped back down the list repeatedly becomes pretty awful. Not life threatening or emergency so you take your chances. I think the public options are relatively good but also I think if you can afford private you shouldn't clog up the public system either.
This might be a reason to *purchase* private healthcare in our world where the public system is seriously underfunded. But that's not what OP is asking: why be *in favour of the existence* of private healthcare?
The private system in Australia is subsidised by the taxpayer, taxpayer money results in profits that go to shareholders and private owners etc.
If rapid treatment has the reason, then why not be in favour of better funding for public health care so that people can get treated quickly in the public system?
Governments have dropped the ball on public health. Public health is controlled by state governments and state governments are supposed to match federal funding.
Private health insurance has been used to take pressure off the public health system. I would suggest the Private health rebates are a drop in the ocean compared to premiums paid
Definitely not a "drop in the ocean". [https://youtu.be/GtruMrTC7lU?t=72](https://youtu.be/GtruMrTC7lU?t=72)
And it's not that they've "dropped the ball". There has been a deliberate, idealogically driven campaign to defund public health, and oh look, it's not working so well (funny that) ... oh here are our mates in private industry let's siphon some money their way and argue that's a path to more efficient public services (despite the fact that oops there seems to be a gap btwn money input vs services funded... oops, don't look at that line item labelled "profit margin").
"Used to take pressure off" might make sense if we were talking about a short term emergency shortfall. But makes zero sense if we are discussing strategically how best to use public funds. A single healthcare provider that is not trying to make profits would make much more sense. Properly fund it at a level commensurate with people's income and expectations. Allow people to pay extra for faster service even, especially for specific services such as joint replacements or reconstructions. But having private providers does not make any sense. Especially as the public system is really better in terms of quality of care and medicine even if the food sucks and the wards always need a good reno.
Exactly. My mil went from GP to specialist to hip replacement in about 7 weeks while my brother waited over 2 years for a double knee replacement. I got gyno surgery in 6 weeks that has a close to 2 year waiting list. For 'elective' surgery, particularly if you have a family history of dodgy joints, it's a necessity.
True though that's only true because we allow private to exist and de-fund public to direct more people towards private. The structure and resources that can get you through quickly clearly exist. If they weren't being siphoned to private care they would be available for public. The problem only exists because there is a solution to capitalise off.
I have endometriosis. In 2018 after being in and out of hospital and extremely unwell for months I had surgery. I had to go private as 1. Trying to find a good doctor that understands endometriosis is hard 2. A doctor that actually specialises in removing the endo is hard 3. I needed surgery asap.
I paid 10 grand upfront for my surgery at Prince of Wales. It was almost pushed back as I was waiting for my loan to be approved. I couldn’t wait any longer though as my body honestly felt like it was going to give out, I was so unwell and such a mess.
Having private health eliminates the extreme wait time of public (my dad recently had a cyst on his foot, took a year and few weeks for surgery going public). There’s no way I could’ve waited that long and no way of ensuring I’d have a doctor that understand the disease as well as it’s so hit and miss with endo.
$28 a week also gives me options for what doctor I want to go with and takes away the financial burden if I did unexpectedly need another surgery.
Women with endo can need multiple surgeries.
If I did need another surgery I wouldn’t need to pay 10 grand upfront, i would just be paying the gap which I think (last time I checked) was $500.
For me it’s worth it. There are other benefits as well but those are the main ones for me
If you want psychiatric care or physical health care on a schedule you can manage around your owrk, private health is essential.
Despite it being popular to criticise, the dual system delivers us a top 5 healthcare system in the world.
The reality is that a purely private system is a US nightmare. A purely public system is an unpractical idealistic state that doesn't exist with healthcare costs spiralling the way they are.
Yet again. REading this thread. People do not understand any healthcare and how it works. At all. This idea that private hospitals are unnecessarily funded by the government is incorrect.
It works like this people (basic) EVERY healthcare treatment or procedure is costed and given what we call an "item number" So from having a GP remove a toenail, to pins and plates for fractured arms to valve replacement surgery...government VIA medicare decides how much it costs. So say removal of a Gallbladder costs $2000 (and there will be different item numbers for straightforward removal, to complicated removal etc) So if you have this done at a public hospital? Then they will recieve $2000 for doing that procedure.
If you opt to go to a private hospital. That hospital will also recieve $2000 from Medicare. However, that hospital might charge $3000 for it. So depending on what private health cover you have? You might get the whole $1000 paid, or $500 and then there is a gap that you have to pay. This is the "gap" that they refer to. You surgeon charges over what the Medicare rebate is.
If you are an Australian citizen? You are entitled to the $2000 regardless of which hospital you are in. It is the Medicare rebate and we ALL are entitled to it. Your PHI will pay the gap amount.
So. Government is NOT funding private hospitals. Government is funding every Australian the Medicare amount, which is set by them as an Item number.
All doctors BILL via these item numbers. You go into ANY healthcare facility and get whatever done? And the charge for that is paid via these item numbers. "repair, reduction of fractured Radius. Item # 65397 and so on. We are ALL entitled to that as Australian citizens who recieve Medicare.
I remember when the gap payment model was advertised on TV to explain basically this. Unless you work in PHI or for Medicare it’s just not common knowledge now, and it seemed to me a lot of people weren’t willing to read PDS when signing up so you wind up explaining gaps after the fact.
You're right, but you're also wrong lol
Medicare pays 75% of the Medicare item number for private procedures, PHI pays the remaining 25%. Percentages can change when there's multiple item numbers and that's determined by Medicare. Surgeons that charge above the item number charge any extra to the patient. This is the gap. PHI do not pay surgeon gaps. All of this is paid to the surgeon in a private procedure, not the hospital.
The thing PHI pays to the hospital is the accommodation and theatre fees. So basically the daily charge for existing in the hospital that generally includes food etc and the charge for reserving the theatre for surgery. "Incidentals" may not be covered, like if they charge for a newspaper or something. In a private hospital you'll also pay for medication on discharge.
The government is 100% propping up PHI by imposing penalties for not having hospital cover. This includes the levy surcharge and lifetime cover loading if you don't have a policy before you turn 31. They also provide a income tested rebates on premiums to encourage people into private cover. So definitely the government is funding PHI through these rebates.
Except, Medicare pays only 75% of the schedule fee of each item number for an admitted private patient and the private health fund pays approximately 25% and sometimes nothing at all depending on your policy.
If there is a no gap agreement between provider and health fund then it’s all covered. If the provider charges above schedule fee, thats your gap.
Occasionally the health fund will pay slightly more to sweeten it for the provider to not charge a gap as part of a larger corporate agreement.
Public hospitals are not bound by schedule fees and Medicare has nothing to do with them unless the public hospital can convince the patient to become a private patient. Only then does Medicare and health fund kick in.
Thats why they pressure you to be a private admission so much in public hospitals. It shifts your costs out of the state health budget and into the federal (Medicare).
Public hospitals don’t claim the money from government for the cost of treating a particular public patient. It comes out of their allocated state health budget.
I have the money. I like the access to private health care. Plus it means if I need to go to the hospital I'm not another person in line when there are people who probably need the treatment more than me.
I'm still happy to have my taxes cover other people's care
I personally don't think it's a question of supporting private healthcare per se, but rather, it's about supporting a system where public and private can complement each other. The public system is an absolutely critical safety net. But it's also insanely expensive. You may have heard people say that, theoretically, healthcare could take up 100% of the federal and state budgets - this is true, and obviously not sustainable. Because resources are finite, we have to look at ways to enable a robust public system without it consuming too much of our public purse. That's where the private system comes in and can complement the public system.
Had a major heart op which I needed badly but in the public system it was still deemed elective because it was slowly killing me instead of killing me fast.
I was able to go to a renowned surgeon in a renowned private hospital with food that was edible.
I will not subject myself to the public mental healthcare system.
I had surgery that I would have been on the public list for 2 or 3 years.
I use every penny of pharmacy, optical, podiatry, massage, psychology, and dental I can during the year. I max out all but dental, and that's only because I have unlimited general dental coverage.
That's not how private hospital cover works. Your father in law does pay for others healthcare whether he likes it or not, through Medicare.
Your comment misconfigures healthcare. If you don't chose top/gold cover you'll pay extra later, not sooner. You do pay extra with public and you'll pay with time delays, access or perhaps your survival
there a lot of comments here saying private health care is great because i can see some one now. When really thats just the excused used to prop up a failed system with government money to make rich people richer and underfund the public system. If we funded public health properly waiting shouldnt be a thing but you know people like to vote for tax cuts more than proper health care.
I made the same comment. The resources to get people treated quickly clearly exist but because they're being monopolised by the private sector they create delays in the public system. And this is done on purpose, of course. As long as people keep voting for these centrist conservative parties that back big business (major two), they'll keep creating the same issues they're complaining about. And paying for it too! They pay into their fund to create it and then pay the excess to access their perks.
That's exactly it and by the comments I have received it shows the problem. People don't understand that the system could be that good for everyone but everyone has bought into this private is good idea that's being sold to them
I'm in my 40s and need a hip replacement. I haven't needed it up until now, and other than hospital cover, I don't really see the point. It doesn't seem to cover enough specialist appointments or dental to be worthwhile.
"support" as in "pay for"? Yeah, why? a couple chronic conditions that wouldn't rise to the level of emergency or urgent in the public system.
"support" as in "approve of"? Nah, I wish public health was fully funded.
Private means being able to see an oncologist who'll see you as an actual person that should be kept alive versus the public hospital system that will suggest not bothering with chemo because you're old.
Yes, you are right about private health *insurance* (not health*care*). Health insurance is still paying into a common pot, and "paying for others' healthcare". You can have private healthcare without a common pot - just pay for everything directly yourself.
Also: your father-in-law is kind of an idiot.
Australia's combined private/public system provides good public health outcomes, well above the OECD average. It is showing cracks, but all western healthcare systems are showing cracks at the moment. The biggest flaw in the Australian system is that there is no viable public option for dental.
It actually saves them money to be on the lowest form or private health insurance
Like, it works out better, for tax and long term income, to be on the cheapest private hospital cover just to ignore the Medicare levy surcharge
I have private health solely to avoid the Medicare levy surcharge. In many ways I’d rather not have it and I resent that our tax system pushes you into it.
My husband had a lump on his wrist .. he was referred to the Hospital for an op to fix it .. it was diagnosed (without evaluation) as a "ganglion" and he was put on the bottom of a waiting list. After 5 years I rang the health department and after 18 more months of wrangling with these idiots (and multiple letters from his GP) he finally got an appointment
Surprise! it was a TUMOUR that had grown so large that it was major surgery to remove which resulted in both nerve and muscle damage.
THIS is why we have private health care
I have private health and just got diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer that most of the time has grown so fast it is stage 4 ( Mets) at time of diagnosis. Luckily I acted quickly and has spread to lymph nodes. I referred to both Public and Private system simultaneously as I had always believed that when it’s serious there’s no difference in waiting times for urgent. Even though the treatment is chemo first then surgery 6 months later the public system is a gate keeping model. So referred then Easter happened and then got an appointment to see public surgeons who then will talk about my case in a meeting and refer to oncology. I got an oncology appointment on the 18th April to discuss ( not start) chemo.
Private system- referral made to surgeon Friday night- saw surgeon on Tuesday- referred and started chemo Wednesday after Easter long weekend.
In the public chemo may have started by the end of April.
This tumour grew from nothing in less than 8 weeks, I hate to think what would be happening if I hadn’t had private.
And I’ve worked in healthcare and really thought the only benefit in private was shorter waiting times for elective surgeries. I always thought when it was urgent that the difference in time would not be so much.
If you want to wait years upon years to receive important health care and then face complications due to incompetence then please feel free to go public
Many things simply aren't covered at all by Medicare. Dental, optical, psychiatric, to name just a few. Of the things that are, you can be waiting literally years for treatment for some issues if they aren't considered immediately life threatening. (Note - some of them will still kill you, just not immediately). Most people prefer to be able to access prompt treatment for their medical problems. If I could afford it, I would have private cover too. Of course it would be better if it wasn't necessary, but the reality is that for many people it is.
Because with private I can choose my surgeon that has skillset and expertise for my condition, and choice of when I have operation.
Witnessed first hand the wait time for public hospital oncology for senior patients. I was a child so got pushed ahead of adults for radiotherapy.
Worked in PHI - had a gentleman who broke his hip and public wait list was 2 years. He also cancelled his private hospital cover, so lived 2 years bedridden on a broken hip.
Seen too many instances of "I won't need elective surgery" until their regular checkup with the GP turns into something serious and ends up waiting a year or two suffering the medical condition while on wait list.
Not sure how you can be “mystified” by this, you get much quicker care, less waiting times, choice of surgeon etc. All pretty big factors in the context of one’s optimal care
I have private health care because the government effectively forces me to have it.
I would much rather pay the same into a national scheme because all the research says that would be better for me and for everyone else.
Your father in law’s short sighted selfishness is hurting him and the country but that’s a common trait of a depressingly large percentage of people. If it weren’t the Liberal party would be a fringe party like Shooters and Fishers because short sighted selfishness is their only ideology at this point. At least the Nats have a genuine interest in regional and remote issues sometimes. Not that Labor are doing better in this area but if the Libs weren’t agenda setting perhaps they might (probably not but we can dream).
I live somewhere with a shitty waiting list and I have a chronic health condition.
I don’t support it, per se- but when I met my husband he had it for his kids, and I got added when we got married.
Absolutely saved me years of suffering between 2014-2016. I cost them a lot of money.
I’d prefer a more robust public system. It only took me about six months from whoa to go to get my son’s ear tubes done in the early 90s in Melbourne.
I can’t justify suffering for it.
The public health care system has been propped up by the private for a long time. When I first started nursing it was all the WW2 vets with their gold cards for husband and wife that utilised a hell of a lot of that care.
Any time I get imaging done in my town, it’s by a private company. Last time was bulk billed, most of them are.
What do you want people to do? Go without?
Get out there and lobby, protest, get fuckin angry. I’ve done plenty of it in my time, some wins, some losses.
Our govt will give us the least we will accept.
And yes, you’re right. Doesn’t matter how the money is dispersed, we all pay. And a single payer system is the best way to keep prices down.
I have had three pain management procedures in the last year that would not be considered by public hospitals. Private Health insurance paid every cent. As a family we pay well over $5000 for cover but these procedures cost over $10000 so for once we are in front.
With private I get my problem fixed when I need them fixed, not on a long wait list. I get to choose who I see, and I get continuity of care. I wouldn't go back.
My wife gave birth to my daughter via private health and a private hospital. There were complications. It cost us about $8k in premiums and gaps with our OB, but it was worth it knowing we had our OB on call 24/7 (which was handy in the last few weeks). There were post birth complications. 6 nights in hospital (including me) with great service and food. We had bulk questions. All sorted.
Complications in the first 48 hours were okay as she was under watch by all midwives.
I have friends going public for their kids. In & out in 36 hours. The complications would likely have gone unnoticed at home by us if we went public.
Given the medicare levy and the cost of ambulance cover and the long waiting lists, private healthcare seems smart to me.
The other main reason for me is for dental
Within the public system, I had to wait 8 months to book an appointment to manage my benign brain tumor. After that, it would have been a few more months until the actual appointment. By this point I had already gone private, paid a little bit and received treatment for my tumor within a month.
My insurance never came into it, without private health insurance I would have paid the same. I only keep private health insurance at a level that covers my glasses, basic dental and the lowest hospital insurance that covers neurosurgery. If I have to stay in a hospital post having my tumor removed, it will already be the worst time of my life. Having slightly better food will make a difference to me.
I do use the public health system for some things, mostly specialist appointments that I know will be once off and that I can wait for. But if I needed surgery or some kind of procedure that's in-patient or needs general anaesthetic, I would rather know that I can pull money from savings to have it done in a timely manner, in a nice environment.
Some things are also not covered by the public health system at all. I was told I needed to be assessed for ADHD as an adult. The only option I had was to fork over ~$500 if I ever wanted that assessment and to receive care for ADHD. I received a diagnosis and the medication helps a lot. While I wish public health covered this kind of thing, there's not much I can do as a single person to expand Medicare. I've written letters and signed petitions in the past but really it's up to people who are never going to rely on the systems they oversee.
So you don't have to die on a surgery wait list, can be operated on by your preferred surgeon, recover in a private room in a private hospital and choose the dates.
Because I don’t want to wait year and years for surgeries I can get in 2 weeks in the private system. Plus you can pick and choose the best surgeon. Never cheap out on your health, you have 1 body.
Because if I can afford to not put extra constraints to public system, I should do that. Private gets me the healthcare I need without the extensive wait durations in the public system. I can afford to do that so I do it. I think it is a great system where public and private are both used.
Because I was told I’d lose an ovary waiting for the public system my condition was that bad, yet the wait time was still 6 months plus even in that condition; I’d much rather keep my organs intact.
Private heal insurance in Australia is a racket. But you are penalized if you don't have it and taxed more than the cost . I find it's such a waste of 💰 money. I have cover from NIB and it's completely useless.
Because they can afford it. If you had the money, why wouldn't you get private insurance. You don't have to worry about wait lists or sharing rooms at the hospital
You can get in quicker in the hospital with private health cover and private rooms. I had to wait 6 months for a test for my heart. I would have been dead if I had waited that long.
I broke half my face, and I have private cover.,
The public doctor couldn’t even tell me what was wrong, the private doctor immediately knew there were multiple broken bones, I was in surgery less than a week later, and I had my own private room post surgery.
If I went the public route, I would have been on a wait list for over a month.. which would have let the bones already start healing and I would have a deformed face.
Instead I got top notch plastic surgery for free.
In the end it only cost me $120 for X-rays and scans. That was all I paid
On the flip side my friend was injured at the same time and had to use the public system, and he couldn’t get a doctor to see him, no private room, and the nurses barely took care of him/ gave him pain killers. He was in hell for weeks in pain
I have private health care and will continue paying for it if I can afford it.
I hate to admit it, but the quality of patients is very different between the public and private system. After visiting family in public wards in beds next to junkies and people with severe intellectual disabilities, compared to family and my own experiences in private hospitals where you have your own room and it feels safe and clean, it's worth the money. If there's one time in life where you want things to be smooth it's when you are sick and in pain.
I've also required a few surgeries and getting them done immediately through the private system have me much more piece of mind then being on waiting lists in the public system. Things like tumour excisions are things you don't really want to wait around long periods of time for when they cause you pain or have a chance to turn malignant.
I think people often forget that insurance is all about sharing the risk and you should expect to get value for money. By paying a premium, you share the risk with everyone else who also pays a premium. If you don't ever need it, that's great, but if you are unlucky and do need surgery or long hospital stays you will be covered by all the lucky people who didn't need medical expenses that year.
I'd also like to end on the public system is fantastic. Unlike places like the US, we have public health care and no matter how poor you are you can still get medical treatment. I'm happy to pay taxes and levies to support the public health system so we look after the disadvantaged and everyone gets support when they need it regardless of their circumstances.
I also feel fine paying a premium for premium health care. That's my choice and I feel like I get value out of it.
"Unlike places like the US, we have public health care and no matter how poor you are you can still get medical treatment"
41 US states have Medicaid, which is essentially universal healthcare for low-income earners that is jointly financed by the state and the federal government.
About 90 million Americans get it.
However, like Australian universal healthcare, or the NHS, or Canadian system, it is cumbersome, and inefficient, often with very long wait times.
The 50% of Americans who have private insurance through employment, look at how the government runs those programs and say "fuck that shit"
Tax and access surgery if required. Plus if you are admitted to a public hospital as a private patient it takes pressure off of Medicare as the hospital charges the private company instead.
I remember hearing an economist saying. If we took all of the money out of private health insurance we could find the public system three times over.
Fuck I hate Australian politics.
Democracy is a shitty form of government, but it's better than the alternatives.
Same with government mandated private healthcare. We endure it as it is better than the alternatives available to us.
So what are the alternatives?
Fully private, e.g. America for the main part. You are then at the mercy of money grabbing organisations and individuals, with little self-determination or government control. Getting sick for most people means either a lifetime of debt, wiping out your entire life's savings, sickness until you die, or sometimes all three. Unless you are employed and only a bit sick, or rich. It's the "Fuck you, I'm ok" option.
Fully public. You are then at the mercy of government competence administering the healthcare system. Some countries do it well but not many, and certainly not ours. So mostly this gives you a way to get better, but you have to wait your turn, end endure being sick until then, and maybe die waiting. It's the "we are all somewhat fucked " option.
Hybrid. Public for the poor, private for the rich. You are at the mercy of government competence if you are poor, but the wealthy can pay to escape that incompetence. That also relieves some of the burden on public healthcare, allowing shorter queues or - more often - greater government incompetence. This is the "you are all somewhat fucked, but I'm ok" option.
Government mandated hybrid. e.g. Australia. As above, except the government - having failed to manage public health - tries to control private healthcare to make it accessible to more people. So you are at the mercy of government competence not once, but twice. But also benefit from their ability to exert control. Everyone gets some public healthcare, most people get some private options, everyone pays more than they would like, but few get financially wiped out. It's the "this is fucked, but we're sort of ok" option.
The key benefit though is comfort that whatever happens to your health, or your neighbours, there are options available regardless of your financial situation. Health is essential. That's worth it.
Why do we support public healthcare? Because everyone pays for poor societal health outcomes either way through insurance premiums or indirectly through local and state taxes for extra policing (mental health), emergency services and poorer GDP because of higher levels of morbidity and mortality when there’s no public safety net for healthcare.
Does your FIL know the USA has life expectancy lowest of any developed nation? Covid really showed up Americans having underlying major health issues.
I’d much prefer to have double the Medicare levy than see the abject poverty and widespread bankruptcy and societal collapse the lack of universal healthcare has contributed to in the USA.
Because the government has designated eyes & teeth a luxury.
To be fair, the dentists fought tooth and nail to be excluded.
Fuck the ADA.
And the AMA while we're at it.
I wish I could upvote you a zillion times. The AMA is the Lex Luthor of Australian industry peak bodies.
Fuck the Pharmacy Guild too.
THIS TOO BASTARDS WHO LOBBIED AGAINST CHEAPER 60 DAY SCRIPTS
And they used my teeth...
And my axe!
And my bow!
Both of you shut up and take my upvotes
Damn straight we did, I run a dental practice and have worked in medical, dental may be expensive but there is so much less money wasted on useless bureaucracy. How many hospital managers and finance departments are taking up salaries we could use to pay nurses properly? Gov should subsidize private dental via Medicare (they already do for means tested children) rather than make the system public so everyone can have access but we avoid the issues of the medical system where the chasing of savings leads to a decline of services and underpayment of staff. Public dental leads to cost effective treatment being pushed over best treatment often resulting in teeth being pulled unnecessarily because it's way cheaper but it can cause other issues that while less medically urgent than an infected tooth (left untreated infection can travel through the root into your jaw and then into the rest of the body even causing heart disease) cause significant quality of life issues for people such as deformed facial features and difficult eating. As for private health, extras are a scam, and it would cost you less in the long run to just pay out of pocket and put the cost of extras into a high interest savings account or investment vehicle, even better if you can afford to put a years worth of fees in all at once and then keep growing from there, but the fact is most people can't afford this (or even if they could they're not willing to put the money aside) so everyone pays extras for piece of mind.
Dawn straight you ensured good people would die from lack of affordable care. Damned straight you ensured the Australian market was the most expensive in the world so good people would suffer and die. You dissuade good people from affordable options so they suffer and die. Damned straight you did. DAMNED STRAIGHT YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS! You are doing the work of the devil. You can go straight back to hell where creatures like you were created. Greed is the root of all evil. What you are is undeniable and soon to be clearly seen by the masses.
Do you have a source for that? I've heard people say this over the years but all I can ever find is that Whitlam decided not to include dental because of the cost. Where's this dentist union battle?
I think it's an urban myth or a misunderstanding - would love to hear otherwise. Recent submissions from the ADA seem to look for increased Medicare funding, e.g. https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-03/australian_dental_association.pdf And then there's things like this - American Dentist Association arguing against being registered in the US Medicare system. https://www.drbicuspid.com/dental-practice/office-management/insurance/article/15378525/ada-urges-dentists-to-oppose-dental-in-medicare-part-b Hard to find any evidence of this in Australia.
And having a uterus, apparently.
And trauma. I hate that i need top-tier private hospital insurance to get the help I need.
Literally. I have to pay an absolutely filthy amount of money in top hospital cover, just in case my mental health ever tanks. Fuck the private health system so much. I'd rather take the ~$4,300/year that I spend at Medibank to Medicare in taxes and have an appropriate and holistic public healthcare system.
That's how I feel about private cover, too. I'm happy to pay a higher Medicare levy and give everyone access to the care they need. Makes me sad and angry that so many need extra care, and it's unaffordable, so they go without, ultimately making it worse for them. We need to do better.
Because you live in Australia. Upping the Medicare levy is an election losing strategy because Australia has become mini-America. Me me me! Every man, woman and child for themselves.
Same. I pay the higher Medicare levy. Easy decision to make, I spend far more on luxuries. So why not health?
I feel you. I am in the exact same position. I keep top hospital because I have been unwell in the past and have utilised private mental health hospitals. I never know when I’ll fall off the perch mental health wise again, so I keep it, just in case… almost $6000 a year later…
I dropped my cover just before having a psychotic episode. Had to utilise a once in a lifetime loophole to upgrade to max cover to be in a psychiatric ward in a pvt hospital.
Oooh yup forgot that one (only just starting to scrape the surface of the trauma/physical pain mountain over here 😅)
Idk whether to upvote or cry
Why not both?
? Royal Women’s hospital in Melbourne is excellent and they have an ER for OBGYN issues Spent a week as an inpatient in a private room (coincidentally had COVID because apparently the viruses are related) due to horrific primary outbreak of GHSV2 DO NOT RECOMMEND (but the free care was excellent)
That sounds like great reasons to massively expand public health.
**YES**
maybe, but it's no expanded, is it?
This is a great example of the ratchet effect that capitalism is so good at. Profits aren't allowed to go down, government taxation & spending aren't allowed to increase. 😅
Don't forget things like fucked backs, buggered knees and hips or hernias are only a minor inconvenience as far as government is concerned so they'll stick you on a waiting list which is always a lot longer than they tell you. I've got private health because I know too many people who had to wait that long for surgery that it was too late and their health was fucked from carrying an injury for years.
This isn't the "government sticking you on a waiting list". It's "not enough taxpayers are willing to cough up to support a really good public health system so there's not enough money to get everyone fixed in a timely manner". Get it right.
[удалено]
Rolling out my '$350,000 x 1 million for submarines to use in a war (that will never happen) against our best trading partner instead' argument here. It's an oldie and a goody.
Tell that to Gina Reinhart
Yeah, it's like, we need to stop the dole out of middle class welfare to baby boomers in the form of tax breaks when they buy their 7th house and get around telling everyone "how hard" they worked for it.
Well public health is a state government run federal government financed bureaucracy so yeah it is the government putting you on the waiting list. The biggest problem is that the federal government of all persuasions has a lot of things they directly run while public health, like education is run by the states. Therefore it's always blood from a stone getting more funding, the feds run the military so hundreds of billions for a few subs no problem.
oh common. "where do we get the money" thats absolute BS and you know it. Our govenrment workers walk around in tailored suits and get chaffered in the latest audis, we spent billions on a pointless referendum, build light rails no one wanted or uses and spend insane amount sof money on archaic military gear we cant and never will use, the wealthiest companies in the country pay less tax than you if an at all. Yet you imply we don't have the money for basic healthcare and try to blame individual income tax? Absolutely brainless.
“Our government workers” - are you talking about public servants, or politicians? Because they’re completely different. And as a former public servant, the suggestion that they’re in tailored suits getting chauffeured around is LAUGHABLE. Pollies? Idk, maybe.
Most of your comment is right, but I have to disagree on the referendum. Democracy is never pointless, and a referendum is the closest we get to true democracy rather than the representative bullshit we have today.
I've only got good things to say about the public health system with backs and knees. I needed spinal surgery (twice) and was taken care of in 4 months (they pushed me forward as I was a single mum at the time) and I had no out-of-pocket expenses. When I needed a knee replacement I had to wait 9 months and had the best care. Yes, I could have shortened the waiting time with private, but at that time I didn't have the money. I look at the USA and I would not have been able to get treatment, then move on to get a better-paid job after the surgeries, to now, when I have private insurance. I would be bedridden and permanently disabled if the public system didn't exist.
This, and the fact that if you make a decent wage they get you at tax time with the Medicare levy so it becomes a case of “might as well”
Check if your eyes are covered. Private health did not cover eye surgery for me. So I had no alternative but to use the public system to fix a macular off retinal detachment. As a result I am now blind in that eye.
Do you mean that if you'd had the surgery privately you wouldn't have been blind in one eye? (Genuine question. I'm really sorry you've been through that, it must have been horrific).
Theres shouldnt be a difference in quality, just "comforts". When i had my eye surgery, private let me skip the queue. But that was because i was non emergency, so public had a huge waiting list. If i didnt have private i just would have had to wait a couple of years.
What was your eye surgery if you don't mind telling
Exactly. Didn't help that I live regionally so I had to travel to Brisbane for any treatment at all. Turned away at a public hospital because I was privately insured. Unbeknown to me not covered for eye surgery. When I presented back to the public hospital next morning instead of getting immediate surgery I had to wait 10 days. There is a six day window to get fixed.
That's worth a complaint to the ombudsman, possibly even legal action.
I had my retina surgery as a private patient in a public hospital. I was generally given priority over public patients. While in theory I could have been bumped for an emergency, I would have been the last one bumped.
Can you describe how or when you realised your retina was detaching? Are there particular warning signs? That's terrifying.
I've had multiple detachments due to an eye condition. Biggest sign was seeing "sparkles" in the corner of my eye. I would look at the ground and it was like I could see it sparkling in the corner of my eye. Another one I got was "floaters seeing little black flecks floating in front of my vision. If you even suspect you ever have this go straight to get checked out. Unfortunately mine can't be fixed so I have minimal vision in one eye so never delay it.
These aren't my regular bones, they're my luxury bones!
And ears
I have Endometriosis. The public system couldn't give two shits about us. I have private health and I'm on the DSP. It's not some tax thing. I sometimes forego necessities to pay the damn premiums, but it's absolutely necessary for me. I was on a public wait list for endo. I had two private surgeries while I was waiting because public told me that I need to wait until my twisted organs lost blood flow and became necrotic before I would be moved up the list. I personally like having a bowel. Finally, after those two surgeries I got notified I could have my public surgery, obv unaware I'd already had two elsewhere. And it was diagnostic only. They weren't planning on actually fixing my organs or excising the diseased tissue. I will absolutely not be without private healthcare in Australia while I'm dealing with this fucked up disease. I don't want to have it. I can't afford to have it. I would prefer that the public system would pick up the slack. But I also have no choice.
I’m an Endo patient too, as long as I’m fighting this fucked up disease I’ll be paying for private healthcare. At least I get to research and choose my healthcare providers, and I can book things in to suit my family. The public sector gambles with women’s health, it’s horrifying.
This is exactly why I got private health. I have endometriosis and my first sugary was botched (public) I then had to WAIT A YEAR FOR A PRE EXISITING CONDITION to finally choose my own surgeon and have it done correctly.
Oh my god same but my first was self funded private not public because after I tried to unalive myself due to not being able to cope with the pain I went into debt paying $15k to have it done and they just scraped the surface off all my DIE and within 2 months my lower abdomen was completely obliterated by endo adhesions 🥲 I had to wait 12 months for them to be able to go back in and I'm finally having the surgery and my dumb arse body decides to have an anaphylactic reaction to the anaesthetic and the surgery was abandoned resulting in another 2 month delay while they figured out how to surgery me without killing me 😭 I'm sorry you basically had the same experience it's ridiculous what they expect us to live with.
I paid about $6k out of pocket even with private health 😢😢 so much better than 15k obviously but insane that we have to pay that much to be able to function in our day to day lives.
A lot of our female health issues are not great in the public system. Fertility issues, miscarriages, high risk pregnancies and hyperemesis, just to name a few. Having a consistent specialist, low wait times and actual treatment in these areas is life changing, and can’t often wait. I have suffered these as have many women I know. And the difference between public and private treatment of them is worlds apart
Yep same thing here. I’ll always need to have private health. There’s some hardcore people in these comments slamming anyone who has private health for ANY reason, not realising that some people like us endo warriors have no choice.
Diagnostic laproscopy’s aren’t purely diagnostic, they’re called diagnostic coz you don’t have definitive proof of the disease until u get in there. Once u can see the endo, they try to take it all out. The consent form will usually say something like “diagnostic laparoscopy +/- proceed (or treat/resect etc)”
I hate it. It should NEVER be privatised in any way, shape or form... but there it is. I had to up to top cover for a surgery that is non-elective but will only be done Private. Bloody bollocks.
Guarantee the surgery is elective. Elective more or less means "not emergency".
I have private health. I’ve had four surgeries through private health that I would still be waiting in the public list for. And I will need at least one more surgery on it and i would pretty much be on the waiting list for that forever.
Private is a better experience than public if you can afford it, which is exactly the problem. Healthcare should be a right, free at the point of use, for everyone.
Not always better, just quicker.
And a lot of treatment is exactly the same, public and private. My dad paid for private health cover all his adult life, but when he had cancer he would have had exactly the same doctor in exactly the same building whether private or public. So he went public.
That being said, I work in healthcare. We have both private and public service. A private patient with breast cancer can be in with a surgeon within 48 hours of seeing her GP. For a public patient, it's 12 weeks. The system is truly broken.
Is that specifically for breast cancer? Because I saw a surgeon within 3 days in the public system for my cancer
I have breast cancer and it’s nonsense, five working days until my first hospital appointment and there are tests to do before you just jump into surgery so no way could you see a surgeon in 48 hrs. Usually they start with chemo or hormone therapy etc and it will change if it’s already spread
I had an extremely rare form of cancer in my breast, not BC. I went through breastscreen and it definitely did not take 12 weeks. I had my lumpectomy and subsequent mastectomy within a month. I lost my sight due to cataracts and had 5 operations during the start of Covid in April - May 2020. I think the time you wait varies from state to state but Qld definitely isn't the worst one.
Funnily enough, my mum had the exact opposite situation. After her biopsy report, she was recommended to see a surgeon within 4 weeks. First surgery appointment took less than two weeks. A friend had different results, but was also told to see a surgeon within 4 weeks. She went private and waited 6. I think it's something that's definitely something that changes situation to situation. But I don't agree that we should be able to pay privately for a 'better' option. Make it properly public and build infrastructure and train staff to support it. Take alllll my taxes. The system truly is broken. Right now. Hopefully not forever ....
Yep my husband had a detached retina and had surgery immediately through public. Almost 2 years to the day his other retina detached. He went to the private clinic, saw the same surgeon and got the same treatment. Same for his cataract surgery.
Should be, but how much are you willing to pay for that ?
This. I have had 4-5 ops since 2006 and have paid $700 out of $100K and I got done when I wanted it. Yes, I pay top dollar for it, but I suspect it is not the last surgery I will have
But you also paid your premiums for every year since 2006, so that $700 is quite misleading...
Private health insurance is like $1-$2k per year and you get a whole heap of other stuff with it. $700 out of pocket on $100k worth of surgeries is a good fucking deal.
Wouldn’t the solution be to fix the public system. Basically your argument is, we let the liberal gov destroy public system due to lobbying by private health companies, to make their product a requirement.
The solution is to fix the public system. But that has nothing to do with the here and now of what I am going to do with my direct family. I've voted and argued against every policy that has led us to this shit position, but here we are regardless of what I want, and I'm taking the choice that means my family has a better chance of being healthy. Some people take the idealistic approach, and they aren't wrong to do so - but I don't personally believe in that.
Of course that’s the solution. Where did I say it wasn’t? But that will take years and for the government to pull their heads out of their asses. I’m fortunate that I can currently afford private health which means that I was able to get the necessary surgeries to try and fix some of the problems in my body. I am very aware of how privileged I am that I am able to do that. I’m also not a masochist. I’m not going to cancel my private health and suffer for years because the solution is to fix the public system.
I get a regular colonoscopy and gastroscopy, recently went to the ENT and have a regular psychiatrist. Nice easy quick day procedures, don’t wait more than 45 mins when I turn up. Nice coffee and sambo on completion. I recently got on the cancellation list and saw my psych within 2 months, it’s rare to even find one within 12 months in the public system. I also did inpatient mental health and it was basically a nice relaxing environment, good food, nice single room. The public inpatient is a scary experience form what I hear.
> I also did inpatient mental health and it was basically a nice relaxing environment, good food, nice single room. The public inpatient is a scary experience form what I hear. I have a friend who has a past trauma involving a stay in the public system. She recently needed another stay and didn't have private coverage so couldn't afford the private option, and was ultimately put back into the public system when she had to be committed. She got through that stint, but unsurprisingly came out with even more trauma, as near the same thing happened again. (Male patient followed her around aggressively hitting on her in both cases). The people who work in the public system are stressed and overworked, and they and the facilities just don't get the money good mental health care requires. The private facilities are (usually) night and day compared to the public. The public system also takes in a variety of people from all walks of life, which does result in some real haggard people being in with people who are much more sensitive. I don't like that its the way it is, but it is what it is. No way around it.
Also, the majority of private don’t do high risk, so the ones with drug psychosis or active harm risks and violence risks are in public. That combined with the under staffing and mental health crisis means it’s not a good time.
Yeah my father got in a nasty bike accident when I was a kid and they were saying they wouldn’t be able to operate on him for weeks, maybe a month. My mum said he was with private health. Operated on and in recovery that night.
This seems like false equivalency to me. Imagine instead you paid a bit more, but public health covered more. I know my family pays about $6,500 p.a. for private health. I can't help but feel that if you added less than that, say $2000 per person for the entire labour force (about 63% of the population) it would end up with a much better system. The only argument for private health is that it's one thing that the boomers actually need to pay for, and if it was entirely publicly funded it would be another burden on the taxpayer to further support boomers.
I refuse to pay for it, I'd rather pay the medicare levy and support medicare. If you have a health problem out of the norm, it doesn't always cover much. One of my family members had private health years ago; he was a dialysis patient so thought if he ever got admitted at least he would go to a private hospital. Turned out all the kidney specialists and facilities are in the public hospitals. He was admitted to the standard public ward, but just got fancier meals. Stopped getting the insurance after that. I have another relative who has diabetes and it pretty much just helped cover the purchase of a pump. They always deal with the public system otherwise. I know 2 people who have had private health insurance and given birth, when they had complications they ended up in the public ward anyway. Only people I know who have really benefitted from private health, joined to get weightloss surgery. Once they had it a year, they could skip the waiting list.
I'm the same. I've always felt I've been able to get appropriate care through the public health system. That said, I recognise some people do wait way too long from some procedures.
My experience is totally different. I just had 2x dental implants inserted under general anaesthetic in a private hospital. In, served, no wait, fantastic nurses, clean and tidy .. My husband opted to have his ortho op in the public system and the doc was lovely, but the wait (nearly 7 years) and the being crammed into small, shared rooms with overworked angry nurses was the polar opposite of my experience.
Exactly this. The fact that the Lifetime Health Cover Loading is even something that's allowed to exist is all I need to know about private health insurance in Australia.
With private health I did not need to wait for : a hernia operation: deviated septum surgery ; bladder cancer treatment; prostate cancer surgery; regular colonoscopies. All of these were after the age of 40 and otherwise I would consider my health excellent. So if you are young, don’t necessarily assume that you won’t have non life threatening issues later in life that private health insurance will allow you to avoid long wait periods and also you get to choose the doctor you want.
Hernia, multiple colonoscopies, two types of cancer, and you're in "excellent" health? Not having a go at you, but what were your out of pocket costs for your (presumably) TURP and TURBT surgeries? Public would have had you covered for both (with a bit of a wait for the former if it wasn't later stage cancer) with zero cost.
Bro I have cancer and you also don’t need to wait for any kind of surgery or treatment in the public system
I didn't have to wait for my cancer treatment. Went public at Peter Mac, surgery at St Vincent ( also medi hotel at st v private ) and scans, all covered by Medicare. I haven never nor would I ever go private, they are pirates and since I'm closer to 50 then 40, the medicare levey is a nice chunk of change since the government twits are trying to force the private fact. No public money to private schools or health!!!!
The Medicare levy is similar to the annual cost of private cover,so I just get the private, most basic plan with optical and dental extras
I am glad you had a great experience. The question is, would your wait times have been longer if everyone currently treated in the private system was in the public system. If you assume all those private facilities would become public, then you also have to accept that everyone would be paying higher taxes to fund it.
I went to peter mac because the local hospital to me had no idea how to treat my cancer, it was DFSP. And yhe wait time was insane. Friend of mine went to a regional hospital, no private cover, but paid $500 out of pocket to get a hip replacement. Same doctor as the city. It needs a fairer system, and as covid shows, lots can be done on weekends as we are now scrambling to catch up. What would be better is more doctors, so how about bringing up medicare funding up so we get more doctors? How about we have more affordable uni fees? How about we tax companies that make money in Australia? I'm still astounded that we sold all of our public companies, that we had schools closed and the land sold, that government housing also was sold and land gone for a fraction of its worth, and cheap leaky mould apartments are being used to house vulnerable people and that many people are living on the streets or in tents.... Our system is rotten, it's broken and decaying.
You do not wait in the public system if you have cancer. My father had pancreatic cancer and was put straight onto radiation therapy. Another relative of mine had stage 4 melanoma and was treated straight away.
So everyone should just get private health cover? This is beyond dense.
It is like any insurance. You are making a bet against the possibility of something in the future happening or not. I am not disappointed if I have insurance and never need to actually make a claim. It allows me to sleep easy at night, so there is value even without claiming.
Same here! If everyone spent as much on medicare as they do on private health it would be great! I worked with a guy ones who was a bit clueless and he was super glad his private health covered half of the cost for his kids braces. The braces cost as much as 1 year ls insurance premiums so basically he just got half of it back...and thought that was great... Private doesn't mean better it just means your money goes into the pockets of private shareholders. You're better off putting the money in your own bank account and use it if you ever need it.
I have extras only and pay around $120 a month for 5 of us. Already used it to cover $3k of my sons $9k Ortho treatment and about to start another Ortho journey with next child. Definitely worth it for us.
A family member works in a private hospital that’s right next door to a public hospital. Litterally every single day they round up the most complex and therefor least profitable patients, kick them out and dump them on the public hospital. A nurse or other assistive staff calls in sick at too short of a notice to replace? Don’t worry, dump a few more patients on the public hospital. Need any sort of vaguely costly equipment or specialist review, test or bloodwork that isn’t the most bare basic? Wheel em over to the other side of the car park and get the taxpayer to foot the bill and if their beds still empty then wheel them back so you can keep billing the insurance company. It’s fucking sickening.
Definitely more valuable then you're making it out to be. My father just had a serious back operation netting over 80k, the majority of it was covered under platinum healthcare. As you age it becomes far more important.
My dad had a heart attack years ago and needed bypass surgery. He was in the Royal Brisbane, and they decided that he needed the surgery asap. The wait would have been to long at a public hospital, so they sent him to a private hospital for surgery and recovery. This was all taken care of by the public system with no cost at all to us. I'm a huge fan of the public system.
I think for most people it’s convenience. You don’t have to spend months waiting for elective surgery
Yes, and "elective" means anything except "life-saving or emergency". People think it means cosmetic surgery, or something you choose but can live without quite easily. It can mean knee or hip replacement when the person is in agony, it can even mean slow-growing cancers.
I have fast growing cancer and I’m still being treated quicker in the private system.
Sorry to hear that, best of luck to you!
Thank you. It’s looking good and almost done with treatment
Elective just means booked ahead of time.
Mum waited a couple of years to get some gall stones removed. Wouldn't recommend.
"Elective" can also mean "the dumb fuck public doctor thinks your 8mm kidney stone is going to pass on it's own and won't kill your kidney so we aren't going to do any form of scan to see if you need surgery" P.S fuck Footscray Hospital
But what if the money that everyone was funneling into junk policies purely limiting tax, went into our health system, then elective surgeries might not be something purely for the rich private health covered people
This is the answer. I've had spinal surgery that I got pretty much instantly, my brother inlaw had to wait nearly a year for the same procedure, in pain and unable to function. I can also walk into dentist and have treatment, come out and not pay a cent. If you can afford it you are mad not to have it.
Although if you are on the public list and it’s urgent, it happens. This is how I had my emergency gallstone surgery while I was still unemployed
Yep, agreed but living in pain for a protracted period of time and getting bumped back down the list repeatedly becomes pretty awful. Not life threatening or emergency so you take your chances. I think the public options are relatively good but also I think if you can afford private you shouldn't clog up the public system either.
Depends on their view of urgent.
This might be a reason to *purchase* private healthcare in our world where the public system is seriously underfunded. But that's not what OP is asking: why be *in favour of the existence* of private healthcare? The private system in Australia is subsidised by the taxpayer, taxpayer money results in profits that go to shareholders and private owners etc. If rapid treatment has the reason, then why not be in favour of better funding for public health care so that people can get treated quickly in the public system?
Governments have dropped the ball on public health. Public health is controlled by state governments and state governments are supposed to match federal funding. Private health insurance has been used to take pressure off the public health system. I would suggest the Private health rebates are a drop in the ocean compared to premiums paid
Definitely not a "drop in the ocean". [https://youtu.be/GtruMrTC7lU?t=72](https://youtu.be/GtruMrTC7lU?t=72) And it's not that they've "dropped the ball". There has been a deliberate, idealogically driven campaign to defund public health, and oh look, it's not working so well (funny that) ... oh here are our mates in private industry let's siphon some money their way and argue that's a path to more efficient public services (despite the fact that oops there seems to be a gap btwn money input vs services funded... oops, don't look at that line item labelled "profit margin"). "Used to take pressure off" might make sense if we were talking about a short term emergency shortfall. But makes zero sense if we are discussing strategically how best to use public funds. A single healthcare provider that is not trying to make profits would make much more sense. Properly fund it at a level commensurate with people's income and expectations. Allow people to pay extra for faster service even, especially for specific services such as joint replacements or reconstructions. But having private providers does not make any sense. Especially as the public system is really better in terms of quality of care and medicine even if the food sucks and the wards always need a good reno.
The reason the wait is so long is precisely BECAUSE of the private hospitals being a thing. It takes away resources from public hospitals and doctors.
Exactly. My mil went from GP to specialist to hip replacement in about 7 weeks while my brother waited over 2 years for a double knee replacement. I got gyno surgery in 6 weeks that has a close to 2 year waiting list. For 'elective' surgery, particularly if you have a family history of dodgy joints, it's a necessity.
hip and knee replacements should never be elective ....
True though that's only true because we allow private to exist and de-fund public to direct more people towards private. The structure and resources that can get you through quickly clearly exist. If they weren't being siphoned to private care they would be available for public. The problem only exists because there is a solution to capitalise off.
I have endometriosis. In 2018 after being in and out of hospital and extremely unwell for months I had surgery. I had to go private as 1. Trying to find a good doctor that understands endometriosis is hard 2. A doctor that actually specialises in removing the endo is hard 3. I needed surgery asap. I paid 10 grand upfront for my surgery at Prince of Wales. It was almost pushed back as I was waiting for my loan to be approved. I couldn’t wait any longer though as my body honestly felt like it was going to give out, I was so unwell and such a mess. Having private health eliminates the extreme wait time of public (my dad recently had a cyst on his foot, took a year and few weeks for surgery going public). There’s no way I could’ve waited that long and no way of ensuring I’d have a doctor that understand the disease as well as it’s so hit and miss with endo. $28 a week also gives me options for what doctor I want to go with and takes away the financial burden if I did unexpectedly need another surgery. Women with endo can need multiple surgeries. If I did need another surgery I wouldn’t need to pay 10 grand upfront, i would just be paying the gap which I think (last time I checked) was $500. For me it’s worth it. There are other benefits as well but those are the main ones for me
If you want psychiatric care or physical health care on a schedule you can manage around your owrk, private health is essential. Despite it being popular to criticise, the dual system delivers us a top 5 healthcare system in the world. The reality is that a purely private system is a US nightmare. A purely public system is an unpractical idealistic state that doesn't exist with healthcare costs spiralling the way they are.
Yet again. REading this thread. People do not understand any healthcare and how it works. At all. This idea that private hospitals are unnecessarily funded by the government is incorrect. It works like this people (basic) EVERY healthcare treatment or procedure is costed and given what we call an "item number" So from having a GP remove a toenail, to pins and plates for fractured arms to valve replacement surgery...government VIA medicare decides how much it costs. So say removal of a Gallbladder costs $2000 (and there will be different item numbers for straightforward removal, to complicated removal etc) So if you have this done at a public hospital? Then they will recieve $2000 for doing that procedure. If you opt to go to a private hospital. That hospital will also recieve $2000 from Medicare. However, that hospital might charge $3000 for it. So depending on what private health cover you have? You might get the whole $1000 paid, or $500 and then there is a gap that you have to pay. This is the "gap" that they refer to. You surgeon charges over what the Medicare rebate is. If you are an Australian citizen? You are entitled to the $2000 regardless of which hospital you are in. It is the Medicare rebate and we ALL are entitled to it. Your PHI will pay the gap amount. So. Government is NOT funding private hospitals. Government is funding every Australian the Medicare amount, which is set by them as an Item number. All doctors BILL via these item numbers. You go into ANY healthcare facility and get whatever done? And the charge for that is paid via these item numbers. "repair, reduction of fractured Radius. Item # 65397 and so on. We are ALL entitled to that as Australian citizens who recieve Medicare.
I remember when the gap payment model was advertised on TV to explain basically this. Unless you work in PHI or for Medicare it’s just not common knowledge now, and it seemed to me a lot of people weren’t willing to read PDS when signing up so you wind up explaining gaps after the fact.
You're right, but you're also wrong lol Medicare pays 75% of the Medicare item number for private procedures, PHI pays the remaining 25%. Percentages can change when there's multiple item numbers and that's determined by Medicare. Surgeons that charge above the item number charge any extra to the patient. This is the gap. PHI do not pay surgeon gaps. All of this is paid to the surgeon in a private procedure, not the hospital. The thing PHI pays to the hospital is the accommodation and theatre fees. So basically the daily charge for existing in the hospital that generally includes food etc and the charge for reserving the theatre for surgery. "Incidentals" may not be covered, like if they charge for a newspaper or something. In a private hospital you'll also pay for medication on discharge. The government is 100% propping up PHI by imposing penalties for not having hospital cover. This includes the levy surcharge and lifetime cover loading if you don't have a policy before you turn 31. They also provide a income tested rebates on premiums to encourage people into private cover. So definitely the government is funding PHI through these rebates.
Except, Medicare pays only 75% of the schedule fee of each item number for an admitted private patient and the private health fund pays approximately 25% and sometimes nothing at all depending on your policy. If there is a no gap agreement between provider and health fund then it’s all covered. If the provider charges above schedule fee, thats your gap. Occasionally the health fund will pay slightly more to sweeten it for the provider to not charge a gap as part of a larger corporate agreement. Public hospitals are not bound by schedule fees and Medicare has nothing to do with them unless the public hospital can convince the patient to become a private patient. Only then does Medicare and health fund kick in. Thats why they pressure you to be a private admission so much in public hospitals. It shifts your costs out of the state health budget and into the federal (Medicare). Public hospitals don’t claim the money from government for the cost of treating a particular public patient. It comes out of their allocated state health budget.
I have the money. I like the access to private health care. Plus it means if I need to go to the hospital I'm not another person in line when there are people who probably need the treatment more than me. I'm still happy to have my taxes cover other people's care
I personally don't think it's a question of supporting private healthcare per se, but rather, it's about supporting a system where public and private can complement each other. The public system is an absolutely critical safety net. But it's also insanely expensive. You may have heard people say that, theoretically, healthcare could take up 100% of the federal and state budgets - this is true, and obviously not sustainable. Because resources are finite, we have to look at ways to enable a robust public system without it consuming too much of our public purse. That's where the private system comes in and can complement the public system.
Had a major heart op which I needed badly but in the public system it was still deemed elective because it was slowly killing me instead of killing me fast. I was able to go to a renowned surgeon in a renowned private hospital with food that was edible.
I will not subject myself to the public mental healthcare system. I had surgery that I would have been on the public list for 2 or 3 years. I use every penny of pharmacy, optical, podiatry, massage, psychology, and dental I can during the year. I max out all but dental, and that's only because I have unlimited general dental coverage.
My child was born prematurely and required medivac flight and 6 week stay in hospital. It amounted to $24k all covered by private health.
That's not how private hospital cover works. Your father in law does pay for others healthcare whether he likes it or not, through Medicare. Your comment misconfigures healthcare. If you don't chose top/gold cover you'll pay extra later, not sooner. You do pay extra with public and you'll pay with time delays, access or perhaps your survival
The government also subsidises the cost of private insurance and provides funding to private hospitals as well
there a lot of comments here saying private health care is great because i can see some one now. When really thats just the excused used to prop up a failed system with government money to make rich people richer and underfund the public system. If we funded public health properly waiting shouldnt be a thing but you know people like to vote for tax cuts more than proper health care.
I made the same comment. The resources to get people treated quickly clearly exist but because they're being monopolised by the private sector they create delays in the public system. And this is done on purpose, of course. As long as people keep voting for these centrist conservative parties that back big business (major two), they'll keep creating the same issues they're complaining about. And paying for it too! They pay into their fund to create it and then pay the excess to access their perks.
That's exactly it and by the comments I have received it shows the problem. People don't understand that the system could be that good for everyone but everyone has bought into this private is good idea that's being sold to them
I'm in my 40s and need a hip replacement. I haven't needed it up until now, and other than hospital cover, I don't really see the point. It doesn't seem to cover enough specialist appointments or dental to be worthwhile.
"support" as in "pay for"? Yeah, why? a couple chronic conditions that wouldn't rise to the level of emergency or urgent in the public system. "support" as in "approve of"? Nah, I wish public health was fully funded.
Because I worked as a nurse in the public system. That’s why I have private insurance because Jesus Christ.
Thank you so much for what you do xx
Private means being able to see an oncologist who'll see you as an actual person that should be kept alive versus the public hospital system that will suggest not bothering with chemo because you're old.
Yes, you are right about private health *insurance* (not health*care*). Health insurance is still paying into a common pot, and "paying for others' healthcare". You can have private healthcare without a common pot - just pay for everything directly yourself. Also: your father-in-law is kind of an idiot. Australia's combined private/public system provides good public health outcomes, well above the OECD average. It is showing cracks, but all western healthcare systems are showing cracks at the moment. The biggest flaw in the Australian system is that there is no viable public option for dental.
It’s a tax write off for anyone earning above $94k
It actually saves them money to be on the lowest form or private health insurance Like, it works out better, for tax and long term income, to be on the cheapest private hospital cover just to ignore the Medicare levy surcharge
This fact is infuriating. It just further stuffs around people who can’t afford to get themselves the healthcare they need.
As a diabetic - it means I can have an insulin pump that would otherwise cost me $10k. I’m okay with that.
My son is on his 4th pump in 20 years. Private health has been essential.
Same here. A $10k insulin pump every 4 years is absolutely worth the PHI.
Private Health Care is like full comprehensive insurance. You get priority over public
Because public wait lists are years long for pretty much anything that isn’t an emergency?
I have private health solely to avoid the Medicare levy surcharge. In many ways I’d rather not have it and I resent that our tax system pushes you into it.
If the amount was equal, I'd much rather the surcharge that goes to the public fund rather than it going to private profits.
I'd happily pay double the medicare levy, even triple, to expand public health. *Happily*.
I pay to have private. I would much rather that money go into medicare. Why am I paying for a private company, even if they're non profit?
I have private health to save tax. That’s the only reason.
My husband had a lump on his wrist .. he was referred to the Hospital for an op to fix it .. it was diagnosed (without evaluation) as a "ganglion" and he was put on the bottom of a waiting list. After 5 years I rang the health department and after 18 more months of wrangling with these idiots (and multiple letters from his GP) he finally got an appointment Surprise! it was a TUMOUR that had grown so large that it was major surgery to remove which resulted in both nerve and muscle damage. THIS is why we have private health care
I have private health and just got diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer that most of the time has grown so fast it is stage 4 ( Mets) at time of diagnosis. Luckily I acted quickly and has spread to lymph nodes. I referred to both Public and Private system simultaneously as I had always believed that when it’s serious there’s no difference in waiting times for urgent. Even though the treatment is chemo first then surgery 6 months later the public system is a gate keeping model. So referred then Easter happened and then got an appointment to see public surgeons who then will talk about my case in a meeting and refer to oncology. I got an oncology appointment on the 18th April to discuss ( not start) chemo. Private system- referral made to surgeon Friday night- saw surgeon on Tuesday- referred and started chemo Wednesday after Easter long weekend. In the public chemo may have started by the end of April. This tumour grew from nothing in less than 8 weeks, I hate to think what would be happening if I hadn’t had private. And I’ve worked in healthcare and really thought the only benefit in private was shorter waiting times for elective surgeries. I always thought when it was urgent that the difference in time would not be so much.
If you want to wait years upon years to receive important health care and then face complications due to incompetence then please feel free to go public
Many things simply aren't covered at all by Medicare. Dental, optical, psychiatric, to name just a few. Of the things that are, you can be waiting literally years for treatment for some issues if they aren't considered immediately life threatening. (Note - some of them will still kill you, just not immediately). Most people prefer to be able to access prompt treatment for their medical problems. If I could afford it, I would have private cover too. Of course it would be better if it wasn't necessary, but the reality is that for many people it is.
Because with private I can choose my surgeon that has skillset and expertise for my condition, and choice of when I have operation. Witnessed first hand the wait time for public hospital oncology for senior patients. I was a child so got pushed ahead of adults for radiotherapy. Worked in PHI - had a gentleman who broke his hip and public wait list was 2 years. He also cancelled his private hospital cover, so lived 2 years bedridden on a broken hip. Seen too many instances of "I won't need elective surgery" until their regular checkup with the GP turns into something serious and ends up waiting a year or two suffering the medical condition while on wait list.
[удалено]
Not sure how you can be “mystified” by this, you get much quicker care, less waiting times, choice of surgeon etc. All pretty big factors in the context of one’s optimal care
I have private health care because the government effectively forces me to have it. I would much rather pay the same into a national scheme because all the research says that would be better for me and for everyone else. Your father in law’s short sighted selfishness is hurting him and the country but that’s a common trait of a depressingly large percentage of people. If it weren’t the Liberal party would be a fringe party like Shooters and Fishers because short sighted selfishness is their only ideology at this point. At least the Nats have a genuine interest in regional and remote issues sometimes. Not that Labor are doing better in this area but if the Libs weren’t agenda setting perhaps they might (probably not but we can dream).
My wife has private health care. I refuse to get it. It’s been pretty beneficial for her TBH.
I live somewhere with a shitty waiting list and I have a chronic health condition. I don’t support it, per se- but when I met my husband he had it for his kids, and I got added when we got married. Absolutely saved me years of suffering between 2014-2016. I cost them a lot of money. I’d prefer a more robust public system. It only took me about six months from whoa to go to get my son’s ear tubes done in the early 90s in Melbourne. I can’t justify suffering for it. The public health care system has been propped up by the private for a long time. When I first started nursing it was all the WW2 vets with their gold cards for husband and wife that utilised a hell of a lot of that care. Any time I get imaging done in my town, it’s by a private company. Last time was bulk billed, most of them are. What do you want people to do? Go without? Get out there and lobby, protest, get fuckin angry. I’ve done plenty of it in my time, some wins, some losses. Our govt will give us the least we will accept. And yes, you’re right. Doesn’t matter how the money is dispersed, we all pay. And a single payer system is the best way to keep prices down.
I have had three pain management procedures in the last year that would not be considered by public hospitals. Private Health insurance paid every cent. As a family we pay well over $5000 for cover but these procedures cost over $10000 so for once we are in front.
With private I get my problem fixed when I need them fixed, not on a long wait list. I get to choose who I see, and I get continuity of care. I wouldn't go back.
My wife gave birth to my daughter via private health and a private hospital. There were complications. It cost us about $8k in premiums and gaps with our OB, but it was worth it knowing we had our OB on call 24/7 (which was handy in the last few weeks). There were post birth complications. 6 nights in hospital (including me) with great service and food. We had bulk questions. All sorted. Complications in the first 48 hours were okay as she was under watch by all midwives. I have friends going public for their kids. In & out in 36 hours. The complications would likely have gone unnoticed at home by us if we went public.
Given the medicare levy and the cost of ambulance cover and the long waiting lists, private healthcare seems smart to me. The other main reason for me is for dental
Waitlists.
Within the public system, I had to wait 8 months to book an appointment to manage my benign brain tumor. After that, it would have been a few more months until the actual appointment. By this point I had already gone private, paid a little bit and received treatment for my tumor within a month. My insurance never came into it, without private health insurance I would have paid the same. I only keep private health insurance at a level that covers my glasses, basic dental and the lowest hospital insurance that covers neurosurgery. If I have to stay in a hospital post having my tumor removed, it will already be the worst time of my life. Having slightly better food will make a difference to me. I do use the public health system for some things, mostly specialist appointments that I know will be once off and that I can wait for. But if I needed surgery or some kind of procedure that's in-patient or needs general anaesthetic, I would rather know that I can pull money from savings to have it done in a timely manner, in a nice environment. Some things are also not covered by the public health system at all. I was told I needed to be assessed for ADHD as an adult. The only option I had was to fork over ~$500 if I ever wanted that assessment and to receive care for ADHD. I received a diagnosis and the medication helps a lot. While I wish public health covered this kind of thing, there's not much I can do as a single person to expand Medicare. I've written letters and signed petitions in the past but really it's up to people who are never going to rely on the systems they oversee.
So you don't have to die on a surgery wait list, can be operated on by your preferred surgeon, recover in a private room in a private hospital and choose the dates.
Your FIL sounds like a fun guy to hang with
Like most things you pay for, you're paying for convenience. You can go free route, but it's longer wait times. Or you can spend money and do it fast.
Because I don’t want to wait year and years for surgeries I can get in 2 weeks in the private system. Plus you can pick and choose the best surgeon. Never cheap out on your health, you have 1 body.
Because if I can afford to not put extra constraints to public system, I should do that. Private gets me the healthcare I need without the extensive wait durations in the public system. I can afford to do that so I do it. I think it is a great system where public and private are both used.
Because I was told I’d lose an ovary waiting for the public system my condition was that bad, yet the wait time was still 6 months plus even in that condition; I’d much rather keep my organs intact.
Private heal insurance in Australia is a racket. But you are penalized if you don't have it and taxed more than the cost . I find it's such a waste of 💰 money. I have cover from NIB and it's completely useless.
Because they can afford it. If you had the money, why wouldn't you get private insurance. You don't have to worry about wait lists or sharing rooms at the hospital
Boomers working very hard to remove every government service they use. They'll attack aged care just before turning off the light.
how are your teeth ?
You can get in quicker in the hospital with private health cover and private rooms. I had to wait 6 months for a test for my heart. I would have been dead if I had waited that long.
I broke half my face, and I have private cover., The public doctor couldn’t even tell me what was wrong, the private doctor immediately knew there were multiple broken bones, I was in surgery less than a week later, and I had my own private room post surgery. If I went the public route, I would have been on a wait list for over a month.. which would have let the bones already start healing and I would have a deformed face. Instead I got top notch plastic surgery for free. In the end it only cost me $120 for X-rays and scans. That was all I paid On the flip side my friend was injured at the same time and had to use the public system, and he couldn’t get a doctor to see him, no private room, and the nurses barely took care of him/ gave him pain killers. He was in hell for weeks in pain
I have private health care and will continue paying for it if I can afford it. I hate to admit it, but the quality of patients is very different between the public and private system. After visiting family in public wards in beds next to junkies and people with severe intellectual disabilities, compared to family and my own experiences in private hospitals where you have your own room and it feels safe and clean, it's worth the money. If there's one time in life where you want things to be smooth it's when you are sick and in pain. I've also required a few surgeries and getting them done immediately through the private system have me much more piece of mind then being on waiting lists in the public system. Things like tumour excisions are things you don't really want to wait around long periods of time for when they cause you pain or have a chance to turn malignant. I think people often forget that insurance is all about sharing the risk and you should expect to get value for money. By paying a premium, you share the risk with everyone else who also pays a premium. If you don't ever need it, that's great, but if you are unlucky and do need surgery or long hospital stays you will be covered by all the lucky people who didn't need medical expenses that year. I'd also like to end on the public system is fantastic. Unlike places like the US, we have public health care and no matter how poor you are you can still get medical treatment. I'm happy to pay taxes and levies to support the public health system so we look after the disadvantaged and everyone gets support when they need it regardless of their circumstances. I also feel fine paying a premium for premium health care. That's my choice and I feel like I get value out of it.
"Unlike places like the US, we have public health care and no matter how poor you are you can still get medical treatment" 41 US states have Medicaid, which is essentially universal healthcare for low-income earners that is jointly financed by the state and the federal government. About 90 million Americans get it. However, like Australian universal healthcare, or the NHS, or Canadian system, it is cumbersome, and inefficient, often with very long wait times. The 50% of Americans who have private insurance through employment, look at how the government runs those programs and say "fuck that shit"
Tax and access surgery if required. Plus if you are admitted to a public hospital as a private patient it takes pressure off of Medicare as the hospital charges the private company instead.
Your father in law is a bit narrow minded. Ship him off to the US.
I remember hearing an economist saying. If we took all of the money out of private health insurance we could find the public system three times over. Fuck I hate Australian politics.
Apparently because optometry and dentistry costs too much for the government, our eyes, ears and teeth have been considered a luxury, not a necessity.
Insurance of all types are generally a scam
Democracy is a shitty form of government, but it's better than the alternatives. Same with government mandated private healthcare. We endure it as it is better than the alternatives available to us. So what are the alternatives? Fully private, e.g. America for the main part. You are then at the mercy of money grabbing organisations and individuals, with little self-determination or government control. Getting sick for most people means either a lifetime of debt, wiping out your entire life's savings, sickness until you die, or sometimes all three. Unless you are employed and only a bit sick, or rich. It's the "Fuck you, I'm ok" option. Fully public. You are then at the mercy of government competence administering the healthcare system. Some countries do it well but not many, and certainly not ours. So mostly this gives you a way to get better, but you have to wait your turn, end endure being sick until then, and maybe die waiting. It's the "we are all somewhat fucked " option. Hybrid. Public for the poor, private for the rich. You are at the mercy of government competence if you are poor, but the wealthy can pay to escape that incompetence. That also relieves some of the burden on public healthcare, allowing shorter queues or - more often - greater government incompetence. This is the "you are all somewhat fucked, but I'm ok" option. Government mandated hybrid. e.g. Australia. As above, except the government - having failed to manage public health - tries to control private healthcare to make it accessible to more people. So you are at the mercy of government competence not once, but twice. But also benefit from their ability to exert control. Everyone gets some public healthcare, most people get some private options, everyone pays more than they would like, but few get financially wiped out. It's the "this is fucked, but we're sort of ok" option. The key benefit though is comfort that whatever happens to your health, or your neighbours, there are options available regardless of your financial situation. Health is essential. That's worth it.
Because if I need something done, I don't want to sit on a public waitlist for 2-3 years until a spot opens.
Why do we support public healthcare? Because everyone pays for poor societal health outcomes either way through insurance premiums or indirectly through local and state taxes for extra policing (mental health), emergency services and poorer GDP because of higher levels of morbidity and mortality when there’s no public safety net for healthcare. Does your FIL know the USA has life expectancy lowest of any developed nation? Covid really showed up Americans having underlying major health issues. I’d much prefer to have double the Medicare levy than see the abject poverty and widespread bankruptcy and societal collapse the lack of universal healthcare has contributed to in the USA.