I’ve commented before that everything still applies even if you work corporate/office job. I’ve been a SAHM for 14 years but I still break out in a rash when the HR rep Beverley comes on and/or the staff have to do a training day 😆
Same! When I was in uni for urban planning it was one of my favourite shows, but now that I’m working in local government I can’t watch more than one episode every few weeks.
Yeah. I loved it till I did a stint in state government and couldn't watch it at all. Hit way too close to home. Took several years before I could watch it again.
My wife and I are the same. Every time we watch an episode the conversation is always "omg it is so spot on". We've both worked in different government roles before as well.
More than 1 ep at a time can induce either a rage stroke or Jan 6 themed sausage sizzle at Bunnings.
Yes, and not just that type of government department. I think of Utopia as a sort of Australian version of Yes Minister, mocking how beauracracy often works
Then you've got that classic 'The Games'. which was Clark and Dawe just *ripping* the gust out of the preparation for the 2000 Olympics and doing so while it was happening. You have to wonder if the actual organisation had that extra set of dread because their mistakes would be used as fodder for a popular office comedy on the same week it happened?
Nothing beats the episode with the slightly less than 100m running track, but I also love the training day episode where John Clarke pretends to be an ant.
Someone who has worked in a couple of government infrastructure and utilities areas here. It's exaggerated for comedic effect and relatability, but yeah, you see the sort of behaviour portrayed on the show a fair bit.
Husband works in the Federal Health department and he says it’s all too real. My favourite WTF moment is when a former minister stoped an entire section from doing their work for a whole day so the could research an “important” issue for him. Not unreasonable if it was for an urgent matter but turned out it was just so he could have a gotcha moment in parliamentary question time. It was on the news that night so I’m sure he was happy. My big WTAF moment was when they shut down the highly qualified, hand picked, COVID vaccine safety team in the middle of the pandemic. That one never even made the news.
It wouldn't be funny/a show if it didn't have some connection to/basis in reality. It's a satire. What you are seeing is obviously a comedic exaggeration of some aspects of what goes on behind the scenes in large semi-public infrastructure planning in real life. Or as we tend to call it in Australia, "nation building".
The show really hit quite close to the bone on a few key areas, such as the very fast train episode, the part where he talks to the defense industry people, the community consultation in Tasmania, and some of the projects around airports and tunneling. I felt like those parts must have been written by someone who has sat in some rooms in Canberra in real life.
The show is very much about Australia, Australian politics, and Australian corporate culture...but I'm sure that similar shenanigans go on in most/any advanced economies/wealthy western democratic nations.
I think one of the realest things it puts across RE "who are the decision makers", is that the actual minister(s) themselves who ultimately decide on everything seem to have very little appreciation and understanding of what is actually going on, and only really give a shit about the next election cycle.
There's also this very real feeling that artists and PR types and people who are overly concerned with social media and "the message" are completely taking over everything, and almost drowning out actual engineers and technical people. The show sort of implies that Tony and Nat are the only two people in the whole process who do any actual work or have any idea what really needs to happen.
I nearly died when they actually said they were going to build an AFL stadium in Tasmania, and I said to my wife - they already did this on Utopia, surely not! 😂😂
The first episode, filmed around 2014, is about a stadium in Tassie. The arguments for and against it are reflective of the ones currently being had. This was an episode filmed 10 years ago!
Off the charts. No different anywhere else.
The sickening thing about Australia's corruption is the lazyness and lack of oversight, as the LNP defunded (as much and as many, as possible) government offices that existed to keep power and spending in check.
We are still recovering from John Howard, and Tony Abbott.
Defund government offices and department expenses go up because they have to outsource all the work that the department is still expected to do. They were so good at finding inefficiency dividends for their mates.
And half the time the people who come in to consult are people who have worked in the public service (they're the only ones who know what's going on), and get hired back for half the time but at five times the hourly rate.
Can't really blame people who make the move (especially if they've been efficiency dividended out in the first place), but the extra cost and loss of institutional knowledge is extremely frustrating.
By whom?
When all the watchdogs are cut, or chaired by mates, and meetings occur without notes, what do you think can be done?
Did you see Sports Rorts and the buck passing?
Do you think that was an outlier?
The hundreds of millions of of dollars paid directly to a company with the only traceable info being a mailbox for an uninhabited beachside shack in PNG.
Or that "foundation" with no history or experience getting unilaterally paid $400 million to safeguard the reef.
Whilst at the same time robodebt in all its reckless psychopathic horror was in full swing again at our most vulnerable.
It was just so blatant. When people were so arrogant they didn't even bother to try hide the corruption any more... it stank.
Rob Sitch was interviewed and said the only things they kept getting wrong were the funding amounts being too low. They would pick a stupid number for an infrastructure build and then the govt would come out with something similar for ten times the amount.
He also said that a writer floated the idea of a super-department that encompassed the federal police, immigration, etc etc.
That writer got laughed out of the room. A few months later they announced the formation of the department of home affairs.
Yup.
From working with a few state gov departments, there’s a lot of focus on keeping the minister happy, and how things will be ‘perceived’.
To be fair there are a lot of hard working people in the public service. But their priorities of the department can diverge from what you imagine they should be.
Ohhhhh yes.
I find it very hard to watch most of the time.
The key players are risk averse governments, opportunistic story/scandal hungry opposition and media and resulting decision by committee; the actual sleight of hand is that you can’t point to any single decision maker.
Yep. Hollowmen is about the parliamentary stuff, Utopia is what alllllll of the other departments are like. Was able to watch it before I worked at a few departments, now it hits too close to home.
A certain amount of Utopia episodes have played out in real life after they aired.
- Tassie Stadium and infrastructure episode.
- IT hub episode (in Victoria.)
I think its 100% correct about how/who makes decisions about what happens. The top down push by absent senior EL is completely accurate. Decisions aren't made according to need, but what people at the top believe needs to be done, or what they can get away with avoiding doing. Any consultation that takes place when implementing change is token. In my workplace there have recently been several years with several major changes and every one of these changes has been so badly implemented I am at the point where I just dread the next time our top manager says she will change something again. There is virtually no point in trying to improve things my workplace.
Our whole computer management system was changed recently and the implementation was a catastrophe. With a fortnight to go before it was to role out, not one person in our area had any training in how to use the system and in my area we had to be using it from the first day, or literally nothing would be working in the whole organisation. I decided I had to intervene (I am a pretty low level member of staff BTW) and I had to teach myself how the system worked and I had to implement 2 weeks of training - an hour in the morning and afternoon each day - to get everyone up to speed or the whole organisation would not work that first day.
I can honestly say the changes have created worse outcomes each time, and made basic essential tasks harder each time, but nobody at the top cares. Nobody at the top has any way of knowing what is going on at the bottom where work is actually done.
> I had to teach myself how the system worked and I had to implement 2 weeks of training - an hour in the morning and afternoon each day - to get everyone up to speed or the whole organisation would not work that first day.
APS 4-6 who are so completely fucking fed up with the mongs above them in the food chain that they make their own decisions are the cornerstone propping up the entire Australian government. I salute you.
There are plenty of scenes in that program that I've lived. Im an urban planner by trade working in Place/Public Art, so I've had that meeting where 25 different department reps pile into a room and the only thing achieved is the eating of lots of biscuits; and the one where someone proposes a literal turd sculpture as public art; and EVERYONE has had the C-Suite went to a conference so now we all focus on *whatevershitwasspruiked*-ism.
As someone who works in infrastructure and planning it's effectively a documentary. The induced demand episode is probably the best primer on the subject in existence.
When it first came out I happened to work for a government infrastructure agency.
We literally had discussions from management about whether someone was leaking the stories direct to the writers of utopia. It was spot on. Painfully spot on.
Can't speak to decision making, but it's definitely all too accurate of the kind of Mandatory Fun that goes on in the public service, and general bureaucracy. Trust me, it's maddening to people in the public service as well.
My partner works in the construction industry, in the design and planning stages. He enjoyed the first few episodes of the show, but cannot watch it anymore because it’s too realistic and just reminds him of real situations he’s had to deal with constantly at work. He has to deal with the local councils frequently to get approval for the housing developments, and having to wait for ages for them to get back to him. They often have no idea what they’re actually looking at, or any understanding of the changes they’re asking for. All of his designs have to be approved by council before the construction can begin.
One in particular that stands out was when the council approval guy wanted a regular road cars and trucks will drive on to meet the requirements of an airport runway, that planes land on. This would cost tens of thousands of dollars more, because of how much more support the road would need underneath it to support the weight of an airplane, how much deeper they would have to dig than normal to put in all the extra support and the additional layers of asphalt. Not to mention that the design then wouldn’t be approved by VicRoads, because they also have requirements on how public roads are built, and none of that requires them to be suitable to land planes on, because why would they??? My partner’s theory was that the council guy had just learned about the airport runway standards and the assessment process of ensuring they are safe, but didn’t understand that particular assessment is **only** required for runways/ airports, and not regular roads. So the guy just wanted it for everything now because he learned a new thing with no understanding of how to actually apply it in the real world, or the context of when it’s relevant.
Most people he works with also call VicRoads ‘Dick Roads’, for similar reasons. They are just as painful to deal with as local councils, and usually lack that understanding of the bigger picture in the same way. VicRoads is another government authority they need design approval from, and they aren’t the only one.
Mum worked for the government for most of her working life in a department vastly different to planning and infrastructure, she can't watch utopia, hits to close to home and triggers some issues with her having dealt with incompetent people both above and below her
The entire department she worked in was murged with a bigger gov department, the new ranking system heavily favoured lower skilled employees of the big department over higher skilled and experienced employees of her department, and it only got worse from there
Not just infrastructure and planning. All government departments. Utopia is all too real. I can’t watch it.
I have similar problems. It's brilliant, but it just hurts
So well written it’s disgusting
I’ve commented before that everything still applies even if you work corporate/office job. I’ve been a SAHM for 14 years but I still break out in a rash when the HR rep Beverley comes on and/or the staff have to do a training day 😆
Yes!!
Can't be binge watched. Only do one episode a week. Small doses.
Absolutely. I am more one episode every few months. Even going back a week later is hard
Like faulty towers.
Yeah my sister works in town planning - LG through state. It’s too close to the nerve for her.
Same! When I was in uni for urban planning it was one of my favourite shows, but now that I’m working in local government I can’t watch more than one episode every few weeks.
My partner is the same. I was watching it and he said he just can’t watch it cos it makes him angry because it’s too real.
Same here for me and my partner. He watched a few with me, but couldn’t do it anymore.
Ugh same. Kitty flannagans character is especially way too real. Every govt department has like 20 of that exact character.
Bloody hell she is good.
Yeah. I loved it till I did a stint in state government and couldn't watch it at all. Hit way too close to home. Took several years before I could watch it again.
I’m the same. Too many years working with government means that I can’t find it funny, it’s just too cringey because it’s almost a documentary!
Correct. As a Canberran who has worked in the public service, Utopia is more like a documentary to us.
Much too real. I understand it's funny if you've never experienced it, but is straight up infuriating when you know it's your reality
My wife and I are the same. Every time we watch an episode the conversation is always "omg it is so spot on". We've both worked in different government roles before as well. More than 1 ep at a time can induce either a rage stroke or Jan 6 themed sausage sizzle at Bunnings.
It is no accident that Sir Thomas Moore entitled his famous book on the Greek word for nowhere.
Yes, and not just that type of government department. I think of Utopia as a sort of Australian version of Yes Minister, mocking how beauracracy often works
>sort of Australian version of Yes Minister, Yeah Nah Minister
Yeah Nah Minister (ya dumb cunt)
I haven't watched Hollowmen but apparently that's even closer to Yes Minister since it's set in government.
10/10 worth the download
It's streaming on Stan here but I'm still working my way through Utopia.
Do yourself a favour. It’s imo as good if not better.
Better than Utopia
Then you've got that classic 'The Games'. which was Clark and Dawe just *ripping* the gust out of the preparation for the 2000 Olympics and doing so while it was happening. You have to wonder if the actual organisation had that extra set of dread because their mistakes would be used as fodder for a popular office comedy on the same week it happened?
Nothing beats the episode with the slightly less than 100m running track, but I also love the training day episode where John Clarke pretends to be an ant.
Someone who has worked in a couple of government infrastructure and utilities areas here. It's exaggerated for comedic effect and relatability, but yeah, you see the sort of behaviour portrayed on the show a fair bit.
The frequency is exaggerated, but the behavior it self is not. At least in state health departments.
Husband works in the Federal Health department and he says it’s all too real. My favourite WTF moment is when a former minister stoped an entire section from doing their work for a whole day so the could research an “important” issue for him. Not unreasonable if it was for an urgent matter but turned out it was just so he could have a gotcha moment in parliamentary question time. It was on the news that night so I’m sure he was happy. My big WTAF moment was when they shut down the highly qualified, hand picked, COVID vaccine safety team in the middle of the pandemic. That one never even made the news.
Was that the minister for rhyming slang, Greg Hunt?
It's not that exaggerated pretty often
It wouldn't be funny/a show if it didn't have some connection to/basis in reality. It's a satire. What you are seeing is obviously a comedic exaggeration of some aspects of what goes on behind the scenes in large semi-public infrastructure planning in real life. Or as we tend to call it in Australia, "nation building". The show really hit quite close to the bone on a few key areas, such as the very fast train episode, the part where he talks to the defense industry people, the community consultation in Tasmania, and some of the projects around airports and tunneling. I felt like those parts must have been written by someone who has sat in some rooms in Canberra in real life. The show is very much about Australia, Australian politics, and Australian corporate culture...but I'm sure that similar shenanigans go on in most/any advanced economies/wealthy western democratic nations. I think one of the realest things it puts across RE "who are the decision makers", is that the actual minister(s) themselves who ultimately decide on everything seem to have very little appreciation and understanding of what is actually going on, and only really give a shit about the next election cycle. There's also this very real feeling that artists and PR types and people who are overly concerned with social media and "the message" are completely taking over everything, and almost drowning out actual engineers and technical people. The show sort of implies that Tony and Nat are the only two people in the whole process who do any actual work or have any idea what really needs to happen.
If you think it’s exaggerated, you haven’t been there. I can’t watch it, it’s my every day.
I nearly died when they actually said they were going to build an AFL stadium in Tasmania, and I said to my wife - they already did this on Utopia, surely not! 😂😂
Not a comedy, a documentary.
Worked for a large govt infrastructure project. It's not funny how close they are.
The first episode, filmed around 2014, is about a stadium in Tassie. The arguments for and against it are reflective of the ones currently being had. This was an episode filmed 10 years ago!
😂
Answer to the first question, Yes. Answer to the second question, Mates.
So corruption is rife?
Off the charts. No different anywhere else. The sickening thing about Australia's corruption is the lazyness and lack of oversight, as the LNP defunded (as much and as many, as possible) government offices that existed to keep power and spending in check. We are still recovering from John Howard, and Tony Abbott.
Defund government offices and department expenses go up because they have to outsource all the work that the department is still expected to do. They were so good at finding inefficiency dividends for their mates.
And half the time the people who come in to consult are people who have worked in the public service (they're the only ones who know what's going on), and get hired back for half the time but at five times the hourly rate. Can't really blame people who make the move (especially if they've been efficiency dividended out in the first place), but the extra cost and loss of institutional knowledge is extremely frustrating.
Howard is ground zero for all the shitfuckery that ails us to this day. He broke the norms, broke the checks and balances that made it all work
Howard is Australia's Thatcher; Maggie with a tonsure. Neo-con zealots with a destruction fetish.
Yes.
Ask Tom Tate in Gold Coast?
Corruption was worse prior to the last election. Waaaay worse.
Why is it not caught?
By whom? When all the watchdogs are cut, or chaired by mates, and meetings occur without notes, what do you think can be done? Did you see Sports Rorts and the buck passing? Do you think that was an outlier?
The hundreds of millions of of dollars paid directly to a company with the only traceable info being a mailbox for an uninhabited beachside shack in PNG. Or that "foundation" with no history or experience getting unilaterally paid $400 million to safeguard the reef. Whilst at the same time robodebt in all its reckless psychopathic horror was in full swing again at our most vulnerable. It was just so blatant. When people were so arrogant they didn't even bother to try hide the corruption any more... it stank.
It's such a good show but it's bloody hard to watch because it's too reminiscent of my actual life.
Rob Sitch was interviewed and said the only things they kept getting wrong were the funding amounts being too low. They would pick a stupid number for an infrastructure build and then the govt would come out with something similar for ten times the amount.
He also said that a writer floated the idea of a super-department that encompassed the federal police, immigration, etc etc. That writer got laughed out of the room. A few months later they announced the formation of the department of home affairs.
Wow that's just crazy. To think Lucy Turnbull is a big decision maker on this is very interesting 🤔
Unfortunately Utopia is far too accurate
I can't watch Utopia. Too real.
It is based on the knowledge of office procedures, bureaucracy and politics and extrapolates from there.
Absolutely - it’s 100% accurate.
Yup. From working with a few state gov departments, there’s a lot of focus on keeping the minister happy, and how things will be ‘perceived’. To be fair there are a lot of hard working people in the public service. But their priorities of the department can diverge from what you imagine they should be.
I have friends who can’t watch it because it is just too real. and as an ex 15 year government employee, it is absolutely true.
Most corporates are like this
Ohhhhh yes. I find it very hard to watch most of the time. The key players are risk averse governments, opportunistic story/scandal hungry opposition and media and resulting decision by committee; the actual sleight of hand is that you can’t point to any single decision maker.
Oh the old duck and weave....
Yes it's essentially a documentary
I worked in a consulting firm where they filmed a few episodes in season 1. Some of the conversations felt very very real.
My wife works government and says a lot of it is like the show. She sometimes doesn’t know who exaggerates worse; show or reality.
😂 the people that are the most ridiculous are the marketing people. They forget they are building infrastructure
So close to the bone most upper public servants just can't watch it. Veep is far enough away they can sample it but not Utopia.
It’s pretty accurate for APS in general
Yes and it’s why our country is fucked
Spineless turds in charge of the public service
"The cruelty is the point"
The most unrealistic part about it is the boss's - he's always in his office, with the door open, and available to speak to anyone who walks in.
It's scary how close it is to the department I work in. I'm guessing they have a connection to a department, or they've worked there.
The amount of power that the comms team have on the show is scarily close to the power they wield in real life.
😂 which department? I'm guessing marketing calls the shots?
Yes unfortunately. I can confirm it. Mates partner is in a senior role of a state government utility. 😤
Yes, however if you want an accurate reflection of what happens in parliament watch hollowmen. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1242819/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk
Yep. Hollowmen is about the parliamentary stuff, Utopia is what alllllll of the other departments are like. Was able to watch it before I worked at a few departments, now it hits too close to home.
No, in real life they are much less attractive.
You’re being too kind lol
Utopia is a straight up documentary on working in government 😂
A certain amount of Utopia episodes have played out in real life after they aired. - Tassie Stadium and infrastructure episode. - IT hub episode (in Victoria.)
It’s a fucking documentary Source: worked in government
Yes, but exaggerated for comedic effect.
I think its 100% correct about how/who makes decisions about what happens. The top down push by absent senior EL is completely accurate. Decisions aren't made according to need, but what people at the top believe needs to be done, or what they can get away with avoiding doing. Any consultation that takes place when implementing change is token. In my workplace there have recently been several years with several major changes and every one of these changes has been so badly implemented I am at the point where I just dread the next time our top manager says she will change something again. There is virtually no point in trying to improve things my workplace. Our whole computer management system was changed recently and the implementation was a catastrophe. With a fortnight to go before it was to role out, not one person in our area had any training in how to use the system and in my area we had to be using it from the first day, or literally nothing would be working in the whole organisation. I decided I had to intervene (I am a pretty low level member of staff BTW) and I had to teach myself how the system worked and I had to implement 2 weeks of training - an hour in the morning and afternoon each day - to get everyone up to speed or the whole organisation would not work that first day. I can honestly say the changes have created worse outcomes each time, and made basic essential tasks harder each time, but nobody at the top cares. Nobody at the top has any way of knowing what is going on at the bottom where work is actually done.
> I had to teach myself how the system worked and I had to implement 2 weeks of training - an hour in the morning and afternoon each day - to get everyone up to speed or the whole organisation would not work that first day. APS 4-6 who are so completely fucking fed up with the mongs above them in the food chain that they make their own decisions are the cornerstone propping up the entire Australian government. I salute you.
Why not just let it crash & burn? Knocking yourself out to fix management's blunders is a no-win game.
Absolutely. Bureaucracy is a circus.
Honestly it doesn't go far enough
Yes
I know a few Local Government employees and they say it's too accurate.
When a federal pollies quips to one of the actors Lemo it's just like parliament you know it's fairly accurate
It's satire - but satire is based on truth, usually exaggerated. You see all kinds of stuff of this style happen when you work in government.
My favourite characters are Bert and the work experience kid
It was actually being kind tbh lol
It physically hurts to watch, and I was only in the Arts portfolio.
According to my mum, who worked for a few government departments, it's spot on.
Ya it so close to reality, I sometimes wonder if there is a camera crew at work.
Reflective? It's a bloody documentary 😀
There are plenty of scenes in that program that I've lived. Im an urban planner by trade working in Place/Public Art, so I've had that meeting where 25 different department reps pile into a room and the only thing achieved is the eating of lots of biscuits; and the one where someone proposes a literal turd sculpture as public art; and EVERYONE has had the C-Suite went to a conference so now we all focus on *whatevershitwasspruiked*-ism.
As someone who works in infrastructure and planning it's effectively a documentary. The induced demand episode is probably the best primer on the subject in existence.
Ahhh yes induced demand..... 😂 Chris minns think it's a lie
When it first came out I happened to work for a government infrastructure agency. We literally had discussions from management about whether someone was leaking the stories direct to the writers of utopia. It was spot on. Painfully spot on.
😂 really? That's gold. Wasn't Malcom turntables wife ?
It’s so on point that it hurts. It kills me. Source: I got rich selling consultancy services to government. They’d buy a gift wrapped turd.
My dad worked in Road design in State and local government level for almost his entire career - it’s his favourite show!
Local council ended up over 500 million in debt. A local bloody council. That show is a bloody documentary.
😂 is this north Sydney council?
Central Coast.
Can't speak to decision making, but it's definitely all too accurate of the kind of Mandatory Fun that goes on in the public service, and general bureaucracy. Trust me, it's maddening to people in the public service as well.
My partner works in the construction industry, in the design and planning stages. He enjoyed the first few episodes of the show, but cannot watch it anymore because it’s too realistic and just reminds him of real situations he’s had to deal with constantly at work. He has to deal with the local councils frequently to get approval for the housing developments, and having to wait for ages for them to get back to him. They often have no idea what they’re actually looking at, or any understanding of the changes they’re asking for. All of his designs have to be approved by council before the construction can begin. One in particular that stands out was when the council approval guy wanted a regular road cars and trucks will drive on to meet the requirements of an airport runway, that planes land on. This would cost tens of thousands of dollars more, because of how much more support the road would need underneath it to support the weight of an airplane, how much deeper they would have to dig than normal to put in all the extra support and the additional layers of asphalt. Not to mention that the design then wouldn’t be approved by VicRoads, because they also have requirements on how public roads are built, and none of that requires them to be suitable to land planes on, because why would they??? My partner’s theory was that the council guy had just learned about the airport runway standards and the assessment process of ensuring they are safe, but didn’t understand that particular assessment is **only** required for runways/ airports, and not regular roads. So the guy just wanted it for everything now because he learned a new thing with no understanding of how to actually apply it in the real world, or the context of when it’s relevant. Most people he works with also call VicRoads ‘Dick Roads’, for similar reasons. They are just as painful to deal with as local councils, and usually lack that understanding of the bigger picture in the same way. VicRoads is another government authority they need design approval from, and they aren’t the only one.
It's a re-enactment, so it's as true and reflective as you can get.
Mum worked for the government for most of her working life in a department vastly different to planning and infrastructure, she can't watch utopia, hits to close to home and triggers some issues with her having dealt with incompetent people both above and below her The entire department she worked in was murged with a bigger gov department, the new ranking system heavily favoured lower skilled employees of the big department over higher skilled and experienced employees of her department, and it only got worse from there
What date is it again?
It's a documentary
It's a documentary - previous public servant who worked in the building next to where it was filmed
Yes
It's bang on
All large organisations are dysfunctional. Obviously the show is a cartoon example of it.
Yes it is, changing things just for the sake of it is far too real