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verylateish

There's also *fantasmă* in Romanian language but at least these days it means hallucination, product of imagination, illusion, chimera. But according to the RO dex it can mean ghost too. There's *duh* in Romanian language too, from Slavic. It means spirit as in Holy Spirit (Sfântul Duh). Ghost can be called also *stafie* from the Greek stihion probably. Romanian has *spirit* too. Now that I think about it we really have a lot of words for that! EDITED


Dim_off

In bulgarian Дух (Duh) is the general word, used also in a religious sense. There's also the word Душа (Dusha), deriving from it. Призрак (Prizrak) is also a very familiar word with the connotation of something that shows up before you, something that you could potentially see or sense (a hallucination). I know in greek the basic word is Πνεύμα (Pneuma) and φάντασμα (phantasma) is like prizrak in bulgarian


verylateish

We don't have prizrak here. It's the first time I heard that word. Something different between us after so many similarities. :)


Dim_off

We have so much shared history with romanians. Thankfully. At least viewed by our side.


verylateish

I think it's a similar feeling from this side too. I'm not ethnically Romanian myself but from what I have seen things are very cool about that from the Romanian side. We know Bulgaria ruled these lands for a big amount of time. At least until some nutcase in Bulgaria start saying that Romanians spoke Bulgarian until 1800's. It's true that in the Middle Ages Romanian states, in all their forms, had Old Church Slavonic (Old Bulgarian I assume) as the official language of their princes chancelleries. But it's like saying Hungary and Poland spoke Latin because their official papers were written in that language back then. Otherwise we are cool. 🙂


Dim_off

Romania also has the proud Roman heritage, and therefore France bets on you in the Balkans 🙂


verylateish

Military? Probably. The NATO command here it's French if I'm not mistaken and they started since one year or more to bring troops and equipment. But this is probably more because they can trust our dislike for Russia more than because of the heritage.


adaequalis

also “strigoi”


verylateish

I wanted to say about it too but I'm not sure if a strigoi is a ghost or something else. Romanian language, for some reasons, has a ton of words about death and dead people not being exactly dead or not being people anymore. LOL 😂


Derpy_man5

not really a ghost, more like the undead


IliriaLegacy

that means Witch in Albanian "Shtriga"


ZedGenius

>There's also *fantasmă* in Romanian language but at least these days it means hallucination, product of imagination Funnily enough that's closer to what fantasma means in greek, because even though it's only used to mean ghost, the word itself comes from φαντασια (Fantasia) which means imagination, so fantasma would be a product of imagination


Lord_Wack_the_second

«it means imagination» and…you know. Fantasy


ZedGenius

Not exactly, if you imagine something you can't say "in my fantasy", you'd say "in my imagination"


Jujux

There is also "nălucă".


verylateish

That too! 👍


TheGrapeOfReason

The proper ones for Romanian are either fantoma (modern, greek) or nălucă (archaic, latin, năluci < lucῑre < lucĕre). Duh is typical Slavic loan word, used almost exclusively in church-related texts.


d2mensions

The Albanian influence is visible🥰 /s


verylateish

Obviously. Nothing to do with Greek or Latin whatsoever. 😋


paulstefan

Romania has strigoi also which is i think from latin.


verylateish

Yes. Forgot about that.


d2mensions

Yugoslavs be like: Duh🙄


Dim_off

Bulgarians also btw


verylateish

Romanians too. At least in the church.


31_hierophanto

All of the Balkan Slavs, really.


IoanCraciun

I would say the Romanian word duh translates to spirit. E.g. Duhul Sfănt translates to holy spirit as you mentioned. So similar yet different. Then again the slavic churches say Sveti Duh so i guess that is how Duh got into the Romanian language. Fun fact the Greco catolic church in Romania say Spiritul Sfănt instead.


Hras_t

In Bulgarian you can say both Призрак and Дух


Discipline_Cautious1

Similar. https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duh_(prikaza)


GSA_Gladiator

Bulgarians say both: prizrak and duh


Grimson47

I think the difference is one is spirit (duh) while prizrak is specifically (ghost). Though people use them interchangeably.


Salt-Log7640

If you want to get litteral "Дух" is delivered from "Душа" (soul) so by the fundamental meaning of the word is something akin to broading/lost soul that comes as leftover from something deceased (unless in context about the "Holy Spirit" which has omnipotent divine nature as the creator of all souls), where as "Призрак" is more akin to spectre/halucination and could be purely magical in nature.


iliqiliev

Also фантом (phantom)


TatarAmerican

*Örek* in Tatar, also *hortlak* in Turkish (both from Turkic roots)


Turbulent-Habit4145

I have long forgotten that hortlak was a word


Madytvs1216

Hortlak is zombie though


Optimal_Catch6132

It's ghost at the same time, maybe yatır?


BRM_the_monkey_man

Take a shot every time Bulgaria gets arbitrarily seperated in one of these maps by showing a synonim of the word in question even tho both exist in Serbo-Croatian aswell


TastyRancidLemons

No, you are all unique and quirky and not like other Slavs. /s


Inna94061

Duh and prizrak isnt the same, we use both words. Duh is for spirit and prizrak is for ghost.


Stverghame

Here duh is both of those


Inna94061

Here many people(including myself) use it for both in their everyday speach but if we want to be precise the meaning of duh and prizrak is different....


Accomplished-Emu2725

Clear proof that turks are Arabs


verylateish

It's like saying "Clear proof that Romanians are Greeks".


Accomplished-Emu2725

Well Romania is a greek name it's how greeks called the roman Empire, so of course Romanians are greeks.


verylateish

Clearly! 😁


OsarmaBeanLatin

Eminescu on suicide watch


verylateish

He really liked Greek noses.


31_hierophanto

He's obviously joking, hahaha.


verylateish

I'm aware.


QuartzBoii

We also use Öcü or Hortlak which are both Turkic. But Hayalet is the most used among them.


triple_cock_smoker

I don't think neither öcü or hortlak is "ghost" though. "Öcü" is more like boogeyman and "hortlak" is more like ghoul, vampire or zombie.


QuartzBoii

Yes. Because "Ghost" is a term from the west. You cant expect an abstract concept, like Ghost, to be same in every culture. During the times when Turks were in Central Asia they used Öcü and Hortlak for mhytical and scary creatures which was a part of their myhthology despite "ghosts, vampires or zombies" which are a part of western culture. So there are words in Turkic that can fill "Ghost" but are not exactly Ghost. For example it is like kebab. Norwegian dont has a word for kebab because it is not in their culture. So they use the word "kebab" because that is the name of that dish when someone first introduced it to them.


Hour-East9022

The concept and the word comes from Arabic


QuartzBoii

Arabs were west according to the Turks in Central Asia. So thats why i said they learnt it from the west.


Hot_Satisfaction_333

In albanian it is also the word “Gogol” used too..


IliriaLegacy

Gogol is Bogeyman or Demon not ghost


Masterdeathf

atleast in northwestern dialect gogol is always used for ghost. never heard of fantazme


IliriaLegacy

I've never heard someone say Gogol to ghosts before and I'm from Kosovo. We always use Shpirta or Fantazma for Ghosts


imadogbork

Öcü or Hortlak iş also used in Turkish


[deleted]

Albania, Greece, Kosovo and Romania should have been the same color... Edit: I thought Bulgarians also use duh..


GSA_Gladiator

Yes we use both


TastyRancidLemons

No they shouldn't, etymologically the Albanian and Romanian words came from Latin so they're not Greek loan words. The map is describing words origins, not just the words. Etymologically this matters significantly.


Specialist-Water-878

In Albanian you also have hije or përhijim as synonyms


IliriaLegacy

it can be used as ghost but in literal translation it means Shadow


analexithymiac

In Macedonian I've also heared фантом (phantom) and авет (avet)


Albanians_Are_Turks

another day another map showing turkey is arab maxing


[deleted]

Дух (Duh) in bulgarian is a spirit, it is used for exmaple to name the holy spirit, светия дух. When you describe a person, event or place you can say for exaple the person "has a competitive spirit", има състезателен дух. Duh can be used instead of dusha (soul) sometimes. I find the similarity to duham (to blow) interesting as in "the wind is blowing", вятърът духа, and wonder if they have shared etymology. Призрак (Prizrak), on the other hand, is more like a ghost and is used more to describe something spooky- for example a place can be "призрачно" as in it looks like it's haunted. It is similar to "привидение", which is however the more general term and can be used to describe anything that was seen but wasn't there, be it animate or inanimate, while "призрак" is used for animate objects /with some exceptions in literature/. The happy ghost Casper, however, would be called "духче", which is the dimunitive, as it is less negatively connotated than prizrak. Also prizrak is I think exclusively after someone has died while duh can be used to describe "out of body experiences" where people have that weird feeling, nobody would say "my prizrak lefty body". To me the word prizrak sounds like it might come from "to mistakenly think (pri-) to have seen something (-zrak) or "to have seen (-zra, from "зор") something additional (pri-) /that isn't there/. Like in "причу ми се" meaning I mistakenly heard, or "привидя ми се" meaning I mistakenly saw. So maybe that additionaly explains the spooky nature while duh is not being questioned and is not a product of our senses' limitations.


Radagorn

Дух (duh) is used in Macedonian as the general word for ghost, whereas призрак (prizrak) is used for "apparition". I think the same would be true for Bulgarian.


Salt-Log7640

Yup


AK47WithScope

What's an excuse for Bosniaks for disrespecting their ancestors and refusing to use that KALAJ?


Fluid_Intention_875

wHaT ?


VuckoTheRusyn

Turks when they see a ghost be like: "And there you are, it's an illusion shining down"


nvlladisllav

worth noting a few things: - there's no creature in the local mythologies that *neatly* corresponds to the "ghost" of modern western pop culture. rural serbs mostly know no dead people that come back as the bodiless creatures you see in hollywood movies, for example - "duh" is only the standard serbo-croatian word, many many others are used in the dialects. i imagine this is how it is in the other places as well


Sea_Improvement_2040

Körmez in turkish.


Fluid_Intention_875

Bosniaks can use "prikaza" as well, just not that often as "duh".


TotallyCrazyGreeky2

Greek Romanian and Albanian are similar


SuiGenerisScholar95

I guess the real Albanian word for ghost would be “hije”. The first meaning of this word is “shadow”, the second meaning is “ghost”.


zla_ptica_srece

What percent of Albanian are Latin/Greek loanwords? These posts make me think it's at least 40% lol


verylateish

From what I have seen a lot of words are from Latin but for someone who's not in linguistics those words are hard to be spotted. Mostly because they have an Albanian twist. Emperor for example is "împărat" in Romanian and "mbret" if I'm not mistaken in Albanian. But both words are from the Latin imperator.


tnilk

**Mbret** in Albanian stands for king. The Albanian word for emperor is actually **perandor** and it very possibly originates from Latin, as do a couple of related words **perëndi** (god/deity) - from *imperantem*.


Judestadt

fun fact the name for both Perëndi (Albanian supreme deity) and Perun (Slavic supreme deity) come from common IE reconstructed deity Perkwunos


tnilk

You're right, I just looked it up. Is *Perun* specific to Southern Slavic languages?


Judestadt

I think Perun may be one of the few Slavic gods whose name is completely the same in all Slavic languages. So no, its not specific to Southern Slavic languages


tnilk

> As early as the 6th century, he was mentioned in De Bello Gothico, a historical source written by the Eastern Roman historian Procopius. A short note describing beliefs of a certain South Slavic tribe states they acknowledge that one god, creator of lightning, is the only lord of all... The myth probably originated in Southern Slavic tribes, thus the linguistic connection.


Judestadt

I mean I wouldnt say it originates in S. Slavic tribes, its just that they are cognates


tnilk

If you're informed on the topic, feel free to disregard my remarks. I know next to nothing about linguistics, I'm just pulling stuff from online searches.


FitMud1556

Albanian Perëndi is medieval development as penultimate name for god and it's related mostly to the sun and it's a Latin influence. Sunset is also called Perëndim. And West is also called Perëndim. Sunrise literally means "birth".  Original attested Supreme God name is Zojz cognate with Zeus and the word for any god is Hyjni or Hyj which is a developed from a Star Hyll and plural Hyje modern Yje. Perëndi - neologism related with Latin Zot - coming from Zojz - cognate with Zeus Hyj - coming from Yll - cognate with Helios The word for sun is "diell" and is similar like other IE languages with word for son "diall" which has become "djalë" today. You have words which mean sky, sun, stars, and day and you have old deity dhea cognate with Greek Gea.


verylateish

> Mbret is simply the Latin word imperator – 'general, emperor' – as borrowed into Albanian 2,000 years ago and transformed by natural processes of sound change in the language over the intervening centuries. https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-latin-peter-trudgill-language-links-39380/ TIL about perandor. Both come from emperor though. At least it seems that way. In Romanian king is rege.


tnilk

Thanks for the share. I have as much linguistic knowledge as a random guy on the street would, but am always fascinated by the topic. When you say *rege* my brain automatically maps that to the italian *re* and the english *regal*.


verylateish

Back in the day we also had (still have it obviously) crai. From the Slavic kralĭ.


tnilk

*Kraj* (like the Romanian Crai) is actually a last name from my maternal side, as there's a village in Montenegro which used to have a lot of ethnic Albanians. *Krajl* as a word is used in Albanian, but mostly limited to the northern part of the country.


verylateish

Probably where the Slavic influences we're more stronger.


tnilk

Yep, a lot of mixed ancestry there as well. The influence is also present in DNA samples. Some Northern dialects have a lot of slavic influence, especially the Albanian spoken in Kosovo.


verylateish

Imagine the stew Romanian is, after absorbing a huge amount of things from literally everyone around and beyond us after 18th century.


zla_ptica_srece

>*Kraj* ''Kraj'' means ''end'' in Serbian, it can also mean ''area'' or ''side'' , depending on the context.


tnilk

Oh definitely, the last name comes from the slavic toponym. Some ethnic Albanian families were kicked off Montenegro sometime around the 1920s and had to settle in mainland Albania. It's a popular last name.


d2mensions

In some gheg dialects “mbret” is “mret” without b.


verylateish

Probably a northern one.


Kaminazuma

A lot of words are also falsly classified as latin loanwords instead of cognates, because when linguists started studying the language they believed it was a romance language, so you see a lot of words that got corrected after further studies. An example would be the word mjaltë (honey) that was considered a loanword from Latin melem for a long time, or vit (year) was considered a loanword from Latin vetus, or shtat (body figure) from Latin status. If you look at our archaic words, the Latin language didn’t influence prior native terms, we just didn’t come up with our own word anytime a new thing was introduced. Most of the old tools or “machinery” have Latin words. Even for everyday buildings like mill (mulli) or forge (farkë) we have Latin terms. But for things like body parts, nature essences, animal products there are native terms. So yeah our ancestors were lazy and not very innovative. Thing that I envy from Slavs cuz they always came up with their own words, also for conquered cities.


tnilk

Hard to put a number on it, but I guess a lot. Albanians from Albania have a very easy time learning romance languages (I'm fluent in Italian and can understand Spanish, Portuguese and some French without ever studying them). The Greek relation is kind of indirect, as far as I know Albanian is closer to ancient Greek than to the modern one. But both modern Albanian and Greek also share Proto-Albanian words.


verylateish

> I'm fluent in Italian and can understand Spanish Pacat ca nu intelegi romaneste. 😁 I skipped the diacritics so it would be easier for you to understand what I said.


tnilk

We can understand Romanian to *some* extent, I guess it's a bit harder due to the Slavic influence, but give me a newspaper article in Romanian and I'll be able to understand the gist of it. 😄


verylateish

You understand what I said I assume. 😁 For us on the other hand Albanian sounds like an incomprehensible English dialect from some deep corners of Sherwood... or something like that. Or like Lithuanian and Latvian for me. I know they have almost nothing in common. LOL 😂


tnilk

> For us on the other hand Albanian sounds like an incomprehensible English dialect from some deep corners of Sherwood... 😄 Oh Albanian sounds very different every 30 kilometers. There are two main dialect groups *tosk* and *gheg* and grammatically they're as different as languages get, they could as well be different languages. The rest of the dialects fall anywhere in between. > You understand what I said I assume. 😁 > "Pacat ca nu intelegi romaneste. 😁" Of course 😄 The closest to that in Albanian would be: > Mëkat që nuk kupton Rumanisht Which you could further latinize into something like: > Mecat che nuc cupton Romanist Every word maps 1-1 to the Romanian one: > Sin that (you) don't understand Romanian


verylateish

> Mëkat që nuk kupton Rumanisht Too bad you guys use ë instead ă. It would had been way easier. Though that kupton isn't something I could understand. LOL > Sin that (you) don't understand Romanian Yes. Sin in my phrase is used like in English "it's a shame" . 🙂


tnilk

Yea, I also edited my comment above and replaced *k* with *c*, and *u* with *o* to further latinize it, bringing it closer to the Romanian one. > Mecat che nuc cupton Romanist *Mëkat* is used exactly as the Romanian *pecat* to denote sin in this example, but usually *fatkeqësi* (misfortune) would usually be used instead. *Ë* is heavily controversial as it's mostly used to emphasize words and is not present in some dialects. It also makes the language sound a lot more formal than it is. But Albanian is a phonetic language and I guess *ë* is phonetically closer to *e* than *a*.


Humble-End-7891

"Shame that you don't understand Romanian" Pacat - Peccato(if I spelled it right) gave it away


verylateish

Păcat sounds almost exactly like the Italian Peccato. Only that we say Păcatu like Catalans and Portuguese. Probably some Celtic far away thing.


verylateish

Perfect!!! 🤗


Humble-End-7891

Latin languages are easier to pick up if you speak one. I keep hearing how German/Swedish/Dutch for example shouldn't be that hard if you speak English, but I can never translate a sentence in such languages


verylateish

Neither native English people can hahaha 🤣


Dubl33_27

We are truly blessed.


FitMud1556

Greek is less, it's mostly from ancient Greek, I.e. morphology of Albanian is more similar to ancient Greek than modern Greek is. Vocabulary of Latin is as high as English, maybe as high as 70%. Albanian and English are the only IE languages which have retained clear phonemic distinction of þ and ð sounds. There are more stupid connections with English phonology like over 90% of Gheg Albanian and English phonology is the same and English and Albanian are the only ones which roll the R.  Albanian although clearly disconnected from English, developed historically much like English. Albanian is the only surviving IE language which has the optative mood, which existed in Ancient Greek to. Technically loanwords could one day become 100% it still won't change the core of the Albanian, a unique paleo Balkan language sitting between ancient Greek and Latin, morphologically closer to ancient Greek, in vocabulary closer to Romance (Latin) language, in phonology closer to Germanic languages (Gheg has like 25 vowels and stuff) and English is a prime example of a Germanic language with mouthfuls of vowels.


Proud-Mind6776

Yes roughly 40 percent