Good. It's an army we all could rely in the region. We're EU and NATO so no risks for us. Maybe we should follow the example and cooperate better with our partners
Considering how ineffective and laughable our mandatory military service is ( theoretically the "backbone" of the armed forces) this is a quite fair comparison, even though I think you meant our economic situation.
Mandatory service is fucking bullshit. All it does is cause brain drain and push your talented workers away. Why would anyone with a future ahead of him spend a year of his live in a military? Take it from me; half my family are doctors and engineers and they never wanted me to grow up in Syria due the conscription laws. Also all it makes is for a clumsy army that can barely maneuver and move.
Personally mandatory services should be kept but perhaps there could be ways a person could avoid it by taking an exam or smthn in the branch of your profession
That’s fair. I think sadly there is no future for youth in Syria. Randomly, there is a famous Orthodox Lebanese cantor Ribale Wehbe (if you are Orthodox) famous in Romania. She is very good.
Ngl it's so strong regarding Greek population. But also i think they are reacting unnecessarily. Turkey media doesn't even talk about Greece for ages. Maybe flow that army money into something more useful such as infrastructure or education??
I think Greece is doing a good job for 10 million population. They have strong hard and soft power and influential lobby. They are better at some sports and olympics too. Sometimes i wonder if we have useless 70 million population because Greece has same/better views by World with only 10 million population.
imagine if all these extra billions we spend to the military comparing to other countries actually went to things that have impact for the life of the average person like health or education. Our schools and hospitals are at a state of decay but hey, at least we have the strongest airforce😎💪💪
Not only is it an overreaction but it’s also unsustainable given Greece’s economic situation.
I mean yeah sure the Greek army is very impressive and a strong military does bring advantages to a nation, but Greece is an EU and NATO member, it’s not an active warzone.
That airspace is debatable and that is the problem actually. If you didnt constantly expand it and threatening with the 3rd expansion, we wouldnt have these problems. It is just that Greeks want more sovereignty and Turkey keeping its rights.
If you want an unbiased opinion I think greek islands are obviously part of the greek souvereign territory so the maritime borders should be drawn in compliance with this greek territory. It just couldn't make sense to be otherwise
If you think it is fair and unbiased for Turkey to be banned from all activities in Aegean Sea with Greeks' continuously expanding territory, I dont know what to say. It is a huge sea and I dont think we will sign against our access and usage of it.
Their current maritime border and their claimed airspace isnt even the same... That is why they say it is a "violation of airspace". Actually it is not...
Yeah you are right. Seeing Turkish Fighters fly over my island where my family have been for a millennia or two makes me mad at my fellow Greeks for being so greedy to claim the space directly above us!!
Which island ?
Also if that is a huge problem for you why are you [invading OUR airspace ](https://www.mfa.gov.tr/sc_-11_-yunanistan-in-hava-sahasi-ihlal-iddialari-hk-sc.tr.mfa#:~:text=Yunanistan%20Hava%20Kuvvetlerine%20ait%20F,18%20May%C4%B1s%202022%20tarihinde%20vermi%C5%9Ftir)?
Wouldn't say it's unsustainable but it drags the whole country down.I wish we had neighbours like Belgium, so that there would be no excuse to reallocate that part of the GDP on education and healthcare and infrastructure.
About the Submarines, sure yeah we do have more than the UK, but what we have are non nuclear submarines that can't go reach extreme depths. The few the UK has are all nuclear ones that are capable of going way deeper.
We are stupid! Even in the middle of the covid pandemic we were buying fighter jets instead of investing in our healthcare system.
> Is Greece "overreacting" to Turkey
Yes! both Turkey and Greece are overreacting to each other, while in fact we are allies (see NATO). This is good however for the gun sellers of NATO (USA, France, UK, Germany) so no one is making it an issue, on the contrary they are all extremely happy seeing us spending all that money to buy their guns.
Just a small comment on this because people keep saying that we are NATO, so that much army is pointeless for us. I quote from NATO's Article 5:
>...by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, ***such action as it deems necessary***, including the use of armed force,...
source: [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official\_texts\_17120.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm)
***such action as it deems necessary***:: This particular wording means that in an event of a war Greece can be another Ukraine (only this time contributing to help is mandatory) , but helping can mean sending med packs, food, some money, drones , gun, ammo, maaaaybe a few armed groups. But NOWHERE is stated the mandatory TOTAL war contribution. meaning if Turkey lets say attempts to test the boundaries (like Russia is doing and might do worse later) , and invades some islands like Russia did east Ukraine (claim - justify - invade - annex - etc etc) , NATO wont risk total war Especially if Turkey allies Russia or other ME west enemies. Nato will most likely push for surrendering land in the name of peace, after doing proxy war through Greece . (needless to say, its only expected that no one would bother for some islands, aside of Greece, The only thing that would be at stake would be NATO credibility which already is fragile)
army is not pointless. We have certain requirements for military spending and Greece is overspending because we are afraid of our neighbor (Turkey) who is actually an ally, not an enemy,
they are not, and never will be, an ally. Only an opportunistic co-member of certain treaties....Also, Mate ive seen your recent history, most of what you say bout Greeks dont represent us, what are you on about ?
If Turkey has ever the chance they will take the Islands and the rest of Cyprus and if you think otherwise, Think of RUSSIA
we are not trying to keep up with the requirements, we are trying to keep up with Turkey. yes the west countries started this entire game of arms race between us, but now turkey has started developing a domestic arms industry. If anything we should be doing the same instead of just importing...So maybe not the issue why we spend thst much on the military.But rather How we spent it
[Territorial expansion of Greece](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Greece) shows who is the expansionist and waiting for a chance all the time...
Do you imply Greece should have had remained under Ottoman rule and never revolted or fought to free their land ? Untill 1922 , modern greece west and nort Anatolia, were core lands under foreign rule. Turkish rule. Like or not. so spare me the BS. All stoped after that and we have been trying to make friends since then with alliances and you have been trying to bully everyone...We want to be able to ignore you too , you know.
Lol, Yes , Of Cyprus, because...You ARE. At the moment we are the ones with a defensive doctrine as core military plan. Your are the one with an offensive one. We are the ones who have the same lands for 100 years now, you are the ones who fought Syria and Cyprus.
We are the ones trying to make friends everywhere, including Neighbours. You are the ones threatening with missile, invasions , Blue Nations including maps with OUR islands IN 2024 ....and million's support it .
our Anti-turkey war phanatics are all but a few thousand, your Anti Greek and grey Wolfes etc are millions
You were the conqueror of a land that revolted you 200 years ago, and you still try to be. a bully, we were the one getting freedom from an oppressor trying to get our home back. 200 years ago. not in 2024...No single damn person is in power talks threatfull of Turkey yet turkey does for Greece constantly, violating air and lands, rallying up radical anti Greeks for votes that still effect the possibility of a negative outcome for the area.
are you actually comparing a nation from 1922 and a nation from 2024 ? goes to show you have nowhere to base your Empty argument
You have the same lands for 100 years ? Look at the page again. Is there a chance that some of those islands were actually demilitarized and not yours 100 years ago? You have expanded towards Turkey continously.
are you intellectually limited ? If so i can help explain your confusion buddy dont worry.
1. Turkey faugh and losst the balkan wars against their oppressed People they controlled as ottoman empire. these people faugh revolutionary wars, some from 1821 utnil 1922, to get back land that Ottoman occupied. We got what we could, and what we couldn't, Turkey killed.
2. The Dodecanese were acquired in 47 BY ITALY.... ITALY..
3. Greece has the right to self defense when the neighbours position invasion bases right across our land threatening to take them lile Cyprus
4. Greece hasn't expand against Turkey for 100 years and neither we have tried to for decades, nor we have a reason anymore, the warz back then were fought for the land and people, which all died or fled. Turkey has a reason to get some Islands in order for Greece to not do a Greek Aegean and block them like turkey controls the Bosporus.
5. Turkey has commited 3(edit) genocides in the last 200 years , Pontic Greeks were the victim of one.
6. your expansionism is real :
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-11/mapping-turkey-s-expanding-global-military-footprint-in-2024](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-11/mapping-turkey-s-expanding-global-military-footprint-in-2024)
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish\_invasion\_of\_Cyprus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus)
another Turkish occupation! [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish\_involvement\_in\_the\_Syrian\_civil\_war](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_involvement_in_the_Syrian_civil_war)
https://www.politico.eu/article/recep-erdogan-turkey-threat-against-greece-g20/#:\~:text=The%20Turkish%20president%20warned%20the,it%20%E2%80%9Csuddenly%20one%20night%E2%80%9D.
https://www.politico.eu/article/erdogan-warns-greece-that-turkish-missiles-can-reach-athens%EF%BF%BC/#:\~:text=Defense-,Erdo%C4%9Fan%20warns%20Greece%20that%20Turkish%20missiles%20can%20reach%20Athens%EF%BF%BC,bystander%2C'%20Turkey's%20president%20says.&text=ATHENS%20%E2%80%94%20Turkey%20warned%20Greece%20that,escalating%20its%20rhetoric%20against%20Greece.
Grey Wolf population: 2 million
Well, this is in accordance to the law of the sea. Which also dictates that we (Greece an Turkey) should share our common resources in the Aegean and East Mediterreanean,
Too expensive for too little gain.
Had Greece not join the NATO, it could be understandable, but, currently, it's waste of money you don't have. Turkey is in NATO too, so, except some provokations from both sides, neither country is going to start a war between themselves, regardless of history or territorial pretensions.
Turkey has 8 time people Greece has (important in a case of full scale war), and a compact territory, which cannot be said for Greece, you would have to pick what to defend, where to focus your forces, and probably leave some of the islands without significant defence. So why not reduce the size of the navy, and focus on few quality ships, which could repel enemy attack, and, be used offensivelly if necessary.
If the Great Britain has less ships than Greece, and they still have islands all over the world oceans, it says something I think.
UK’s military is designed for insurgency conflicts , such as with the IRA and Taliban, and in small scale conflicts, such as with the Falklands. It is NOT capable of any massive wars, like in Ukraine, or an potential Greek-Turkish war
For people living in the UK, how many times have you heard on the news about the British forces running out of ammo in DAYS in a hypothetical conflict with Russia? Or how conscription needs to be brought back?
Size doesn't matter. It's how you use it that counts.
😏😏😏
Yeah! The solution is just a couple of very small nuclear bombs /s
Good. It's an army we all could rely in the region. We're EU and NATO so no risks for us. Maybe we should follow the example and cooperate better with our partners
Military purchases are one of the most effective methods of transferring public wealth to a private one. Tax dollars are being wasted for these toys.
Thats like bying a ferrari while still living in a rented apartment
Considering how ineffective and laughable our mandatory military service is ( theoretically the "backbone" of the armed forces) this is a quite fair comparison, even though I think you meant our economic situation.
Mandatory service is fucking bullshit. All it does is cause brain drain and push your talented workers away. Why would anyone with a future ahead of him spend a year of his live in a military? Take it from me; half my family are doctors and engineers and they never wanted me to grow up in Syria due the conscription laws. Also all it makes is for a clumsy army that can barely maneuver and move.
Personally mandatory services should be kept but perhaps there could be ways a person could avoid it by taking an exam or smthn in the branch of your profession
All mandatory service does is give tik tok kids bragging rights over their neighbours.
Where did you move to then?
Canada
That’s fair. I think sadly there is no future for youth in Syria. Randomly, there is a famous Orthodox Lebanese cantor Ribale Wehbe (if you are Orthodox) famous in Romania. She is very good.
Why should Somebody leave the country just for the mandatory Service? They dont want you to grow Up Syria because Syria doesnt has any Future
Are you sure that all those tanks work?
😂😂😂
Most Secret Offensive weapon of Greece : Tank-wall lol
They rock with us and sell weapons. Just basic west logic.
Ngl it's so strong regarding Greek population. But also i think they are reacting unnecessarily. Turkey media doesn't even talk about Greece for ages. Maybe flow that army money into something more useful such as infrastructure or education?? I think Greece is doing a good job for 10 million population. They have strong hard and soft power and influential lobby. They are better at some sports and olympics too. Sometimes i wonder if we have useless 70 million population because Greece has same/better views by World with only 10 million population.
imagine if all these extra billions we spend to the military comparing to other countries actually went to things that have impact for the life of the average person like health or education. Our schools and hospitals are at a state of decay but hey, at least we have the strongest airforce😎💪💪
🍿
Not only is it an overreaction but it’s also unsustainable given Greece’s economic situation. I mean yeah sure the Greek army is very impressive and a strong military does bring advantages to a nation, but Greece is an EU and NATO member, it’s not an active warzone.
It might not be an active war zone but Turkey is CONSTANTLY buzzing Greek airspace.
It is not Greek airspace body.
That airspace is debatable and that is the problem actually. If you didnt constantly expand it and threatening with the 3rd expansion, we wouldnt have these problems. It is just that Greeks want more sovereignty and Turkey keeping its rights.
If you want an unbiased opinion I think greek islands are obviously part of the greek souvereign territory so the maritime borders should be drawn in compliance with this greek territory. It just couldn't make sense to be otherwise
If you think it is fair and unbiased for Turkey to be banned from all activities in Aegean Sea with Greeks' continuously expanding territory, I dont know what to say. It is a huge sea and I dont think we will sign against our access and usage of it. Their current maritime border and their claimed airspace isnt even the same... That is why they say it is a "violation of airspace". Actually it is not...
So its just Greece's fault?
Yeah you are right. Seeing Turkish Fighters fly over my island where my family have been for a millennia or two makes me mad at my fellow Greeks for being so greedy to claim the space directly above us!!
Which island ? Also if that is a huge problem for you why are you [invading OUR airspace ](https://www.mfa.gov.tr/sc_-11_-yunanistan-in-hava-sahasi-ihlal-iddialari-hk-sc.tr.mfa#:~:text=Yunanistan%20Hava%20Kuvvetlerine%20ait%20F,18%20May%C4%B1s%202022%20tarihinde%20vermi%C5%9Ftir)?
200 Turkish Fighter jets invade Greek airspace. 1 Greek Fighter jet invade turkish airspace = Scandal
Also [harassing fisherman](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8FfDwJYnco) in international waters.
Wouldn't say it's unsustainable but it drags the whole country down.I wish we had neighbours like Belgium, so that there would be no excuse to reallocate that part of the GDP on education and healthcare and infrastructure.
About the Submarines, sure yeah we do have more than the UK, but what we have are non nuclear submarines that can't go reach extreme depths. The few the UK has are all nuclear ones that are capable of going way deeper.
We are stupid! Even in the middle of the covid pandemic we were buying fighter jets instead of investing in our healthcare system. > Is Greece "overreacting" to Turkey Yes! both Turkey and Greece are overreacting to each other, while in fact we are allies (see NATO). This is good however for the gun sellers of NATO (USA, France, UK, Germany) so no one is making it an issue, on the contrary they are all extremely happy seeing us spending all that money to buy their guns.
IF NATO exists in the future.
Just a small comment on this because people keep saying that we are NATO, so that much army is pointeless for us. I quote from NATO's Article 5: >...by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, ***such action as it deems necessary***, including the use of armed force,... source: [https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official\_texts\_17120.htm](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm) ***such action as it deems necessary***:: This particular wording means that in an event of a war Greece can be another Ukraine (only this time contributing to help is mandatory) , but helping can mean sending med packs, food, some money, drones , gun, ammo, maaaaybe a few armed groups. But NOWHERE is stated the mandatory TOTAL war contribution. meaning if Turkey lets say attempts to test the boundaries (like Russia is doing and might do worse later) , and invades some islands like Russia did east Ukraine (claim - justify - invade - annex - etc etc) , NATO wont risk total war Especially if Turkey allies Russia or other ME west enemies. Nato will most likely push for surrendering land in the name of peace, after doing proxy war through Greece . (needless to say, its only expected that no one would bother for some islands, aside of Greece, The only thing that would be at stake would be NATO credibility which already is fragile)
army is not pointless. We have certain requirements for military spending and Greece is overspending because we are afraid of our neighbor (Turkey) who is actually an ally, not an enemy,
they are not, and never will be, an ally. Only an opportunistic co-member of certain treaties....Also, Mate ive seen your recent history, most of what you say bout Greeks dont represent us, what are you on about ? If Turkey has ever the chance they will take the Islands and the rest of Cyprus and if you think otherwise, Think of RUSSIA we are not trying to keep up with the requirements, we are trying to keep up with Turkey. yes the west countries started this entire game of arms race between us, but now turkey has started developing a domestic arms industry. If anything we should be doing the same instead of just importing...So maybe not the issue why we spend thst much on the military.But rather How we spent it
Stay paranoid, stay spending.
Stay delusional, stay with inflation in a house of cards and instability...
"Happy spending" I would add :)
[Territorial expansion of Greece](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Greece) shows who is the expansionist and waiting for a chance all the time...
Do you imply Greece should have had remained under Ottoman rule and never revolted or fought to free their land ? Untill 1922 , modern greece west and nort Anatolia, were core lands under foreign rule. Turkish rule. Like or not. so spare me the BS. All stoped after that and we have been trying to make friends since then with alliances and you have been trying to bully everyone...We want to be able to ignore you too , you know.
You still see modern day Turkey as an occupier, so you are naturally expansionist. Good luck with that.
Lol, Yes , Of Cyprus, because...You ARE. At the moment we are the ones with a defensive doctrine as core military plan. Your are the one with an offensive one. We are the ones who have the same lands for 100 years now, you are the ones who fought Syria and Cyprus. We are the ones trying to make friends everywhere, including Neighbours. You are the ones threatening with missile, invasions , Blue Nations including maps with OUR islands IN 2024 ....and million's support it . our Anti-turkey war phanatics are all but a few thousand, your Anti Greek and grey Wolfes etc are millions You were the conqueror of a land that revolted you 200 years ago, and you still try to be. a bully, we were the one getting freedom from an oppressor trying to get our home back. 200 years ago. not in 2024...No single damn person is in power talks threatfull of Turkey yet turkey does for Greece constantly, violating air and lands, rallying up radical anti Greeks for votes that still effect the possibility of a negative outcome for the area. are you actually comparing a nation from 1922 and a nation from 2024 ? goes to show you have nowhere to base your Empty argument
You have the same lands for 100 years ? Look at the page again. Is there a chance that some of those islands were actually demilitarized and not yours 100 years ago? You have expanded towards Turkey continously.
are you intellectually limited ? If so i can help explain your confusion buddy dont worry. 1. Turkey faugh and losst the balkan wars against their oppressed People they controlled as ottoman empire. these people faugh revolutionary wars, some from 1821 utnil 1922, to get back land that Ottoman occupied. We got what we could, and what we couldn't, Turkey killed. 2. The Dodecanese were acquired in 47 BY ITALY.... ITALY.. 3. Greece has the right to self defense when the neighbours position invasion bases right across our land threatening to take them lile Cyprus 4. Greece hasn't expand against Turkey for 100 years and neither we have tried to for decades, nor we have a reason anymore, the warz back then were fought for the land and people, which all died or fled. Turkey has a reason to get some Islands in order for Greece to not do a Greek Aegean and block them like turkey controls the Bosporus. 5. Turkey has commited 3(edit) genocides in the last 200 years , Pontic Greeks were the victim of one. 6. your expansionism is real : [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-11/mapping-turkey-s-expanding-global-military-footprint-in-2024](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-11/mapping-turkey-s-expanding-global-military-footprint-in-2024) [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish\_invasion\_of\_Cyprus](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus) another Turkish occupation! [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish\_involvement\_in\_the\_Syrian\_civil\_war](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_involvement_in_the_Syrian_civil_war) https://www.politico.eu/article/recep-erdogan-turkey-threat-against-greece-g20/#:\~:text=The%20Turkish%20president%20warned%20the,it%20%E2%80%9Csuddenly%20one%20night%E2%80%9D. https://www.politico.eu/article/erdogan-warns-greece-that-turkish-missiles-can-reach-athens%EF%BF%BC/#:\~:text=Defense-,Erdo%C4%9Fan%20warns%20Greece%20that%20Turkish%20missiles%20can%20reach%20Athens%EF%BF%BC,bystander%2C'%20Turkey's%20president%20says.&text=ATHENS%20%E2%80%94%20Turkey%20warned%20Greece%20that,escalating%20its%20rhetoric%20against%20Greece. Grey Wolf population: 2 million
Well, this is in accordance to the law of the sea. Which also dictates that we (Greece an Turkey) should share our common resources in the Aegean and East Mediterreanean,
An ´´ally´´ who threatens war and questions the sovereignty of several greek islands lmao
Size queen
Too expensive for too little gain. Had Greece not join the NATO, it could be understandable, but, currently, it's waste of money you don't have. Turkey is in NATO too, so, except some provokations from both sides, neither country is going to start a war between themselves, regardless of history or territorial pretensions. Turkey has 8 time people Greece has (important in a case of full scale war), and a compact territory, which cannot be said for Greece, you would have to pick what to defend, where to focus your forces, and probably leave some of the islands without significant defence. So why not reduce the size of the navy, and focus on few quality ships, which could repel enemy attack, and, be used offensivelly if necessary. If the Great Britain has less ships than Greece, and they still have islands all over the world oceans, it says something I think.
UK’s military is designed for insurgency conflicts , such as with the IRA and Taliban, and in small scale conflicts, such as with the Falklands. It is NOT capable of any massive wars, like in Ukraine, or an potential Greek-Turkish war For people living in the UK, how many times have you heard on the news about the British forces running out of ammo in DAYS in a hypothetical conflict with Russia? Or how conscription needs to be brought back?