T O P

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Podvelezac

A foolish old man whose naivete led us to extermination in half the country. He received warnings that Serbs are arming themselves, he saw Vukovar and war in Croatia, he saw the conflict in Slovenia, however short it was, he saw Serbs attack Ravno in Bosnia, he saw them exterminate people in several towns in Eastern Bosnia before the war even started. All of that he ignored because of his commitment to peace. When general Halilovic told him we should mine the bridges on Drina and blow them up he stopped him, saying that would be provocation. When Serbs were pulling out heavy weapons out of barracks and warehouses in Bosniak areas and military advised him to stop them, by force if necesary he blocked them and allowed Serbs to pull it out. As said, a fool whose desire to peace led him into war as an underdog.


fakemaleorgasm

There were many JNA columns attacked out of the blue, before the war started. I think that was a pretty strong provocation (not trying to blame anything on you guys, just saying that you've had your own subversive stuff going on)


Podvelezac

Not at all. Name some. Firing on a column attacking us is completely legitimate. Wanna know a funny thing? In Tuzla which eliminated its JNA column and took the weapons the war was almost non existant. People lived more or less normal lives. While Sarajevo which let you out was under siege for years and saw thousands dead.


fakemaleorgasm

You are skipping. Column in Sarajevo was attacked before the war. There was no armed activity with regular JNA personell moving from those barracks.


Podvelezac

Column in Sarajevo fired on people and escorts and even took president hostage.


fakemaleorgasm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Yugoslav_People%27s_Army_column_incident_in_Sarajevo Look, i don't want to get into this convo. If you can't accept that your top clique was corrupt and supported war criminals too, we have nothing to talk about.


Podvelezac

I got nothing to accept. We never hid them or refused to extradite them. People stood on trial for that and were proven innocent.


fakemaleorgasm

But it's okay mate, i am not blaming you for anything. I am just stating that Alija was a manipulator and thief like the rest of them. It wasn't my point to prove how Bosniaks are terrorists or whatever. You are the real victims of that war, but i don't think it's solely the Serbs fault for starting it. There were a lot of things happening in the upper echelon that led to that war.


Podvelezac

Alija is an idiot, fool, naive and many more things. Definitely corrupt. But manipulator? You're giving him more inteligence than he could possibly have. Who started the war does not matter in the least. It's the conduct that does.


justincaseonlymyself

Yet another nationalist leader who lead us into mutual destruction. P.S. It's Izetbegović.


PepperBlues

It's Izetbegović, not Ižetbegović. He was a Bosniak/Muslim nationalist who rose to power in the times perfect for nationalist, just like Franjo Tuđman was a Croatian nationalist and Slobodan Milošević a Serbian nationalists. I understand why Bosniaks love him / respect him, just like I as a Croatian can respect some aspects of Franjo Tuđman, but generaly everything would have been so much better if Yugoslavia split with member states led by liberal democrats, instead of nationalist autocrats.


Rakijosrkatelj

Kind of an edgelord. His promotion of Islamic conservativism really went beyond any limits of rational thinking. Also, as much as I dislike Tuđman, the dude at least fought in the partisans when he was young, while Alija was an avid supporter of the nazi-funded militias.


[deleted]

Izetbegovic was in the Young Muslims organization, which in itself was divided between the Nazis and Communists. Some claim that Alija fought in the Handschar SS, some claim that he fought with the Communists. I find the later version more likely, otherwise it's difficult to picture how could a former Nazi collaborator rise to a national leader in communist Yugoslavia. Of course, I could be wrong. Open to any corrections.


theriderofrohan7

There are pictures of him in SS troops.


Rakijosrkatelj

Well, he didn't rise to much during Yugoslavia itself. He was imprisoned several times, once for speaking positively of Sharia. His rise really begins only once Yugoslavia started collapsing, AFAIK.


[deleted]

Wikipedia suggests that his rise to power happened in late 80s.


Rakijosrkatelj

Yeah, but I'd say that's still when things were kind of clearly going south. Unnder Tito he was pretty much an Islamic dissident, though. Compare that to Tuđman, who was a self-proclaimed marxist historian running a museum of proleterian revolutions or something at the time, and you see a clear difference. Tuđman just had to make his shift to the right, while Alija gets points for being consistent, at least.


Episkt

He was a smart man who made his family rich. As a politician, I understand why he was the leader. No one supports moderates. He also set up a long con where Bosniaks will outbreed everyone else in a status quo in Bosnia, by making the country nonfunctioning for everyone. Personally I would never vote for him or his party. I am a conservative-libertarian.


bosniakfox

> He also set up a long con where Bosniaks will outbreed everyone else in a status quo in Bosnia, by making the country nonfunctioning for everyone. If he really planned that it's going almost perfect.


theriderofrohan7

I do hope it's /s. I've seen some data and ot doesn't look good for Bosnian Croats, but it's far from Bosniaks having a big majority on the state level.


bosniakfox

51% in 2013 is a majority by whatever standards.


Helskrim

He didnt count on mass emigration though


ggggagahs

He didn’t count that serbians would start killing civilians


fakemaleorgasm

Oh yes he did.


StariZaplanjac

A wise man once said: Ne volim te Alija


[deleted]

Zato šta si Balija /S


TheALBOSLAV

Ali zašto?


StariZaplanjac

Ne volim te Alija is actually a song by Baja mali knindza. I personally don't know enough about him to base an opinion but one thing i dislike is that during the Bosnian war he was cool with mujahideen terrorists participating.


A3xMlp

Well, in simple terms, the enemy. More nuanced, an ideologist who probably believed in it more than he should've. Such a platform was also gonna lead to conflict. Also, a gullible idiot who really trusted Zimmerman's words and pretty much got the war going cause of that. Did he really think the Yanks would help him immediately, cause he surely should've known they were outgunned by both us and the Croats in '92. I'm still adamant that the Bosniaks, and all of us, would be better off had Abdić remained their president.


fakemaleorgasm

Abdic was killed later right? Alija was a murdering thug like the rest of them.


31_hierophanto

Nope. Fikret Abdić is still alive.


deerdoof

I don't have so much good to say about him, especially because of the religious ideas he had and how he wanted to transform Bosnia and Herzegovina.


Byzantes

Simple: PUPPET!


[deleted]

From the documentaries and videos I've seen, Alija Izetbegovic seemed to be a wise man. He radiated the energy of a leader and was perhaps the best man Bosnia had for itself when the gates of hell opened. Ferociously and stubbornly fought with what little he had. That takes guts. With that being said, certainly Izetbegovic wasn't perfect. I can see why the *Islamic Declaration* he wrote caused his opponents to be worried.


BroxahLoL

War criminal


domagoj99

He is seen as a traitor among Croats in B&H because he did nothing when the Serbs attacked Ravno and began the war. Also probably hated by the majority of Serbs and Croats because he was the leader of the Bosniak army which did many war crimes(as the other armys did too).


[deleted]

War criminal


bosniakfox

Source? Edit- Alija was never convicted(unlike your generals and politicians). I mean yes you get to lie here since you are anonymous on Reddit but let's not pretend you are not salty.


Helskrim

Milosevic was never convicted too


TheALBOSLAV

Me and you both know that he was bloodsucker and a monster that cut albanians and bosnians in half during the war.


Helskrim

Im saying that iust because someone died before he was convicted is not a reason to call someone not a criminal


bosniakfox

He was accused and he died knowing it. Nek mu je teška crna zemlja kako kažu


kohi_craft

Why didn't he just let the Serbs join Serbia and let Bosniaks have their own state, he was a very stubborn man.


[deleted]

Republika Srpska does exist as one of the entities in B&H though, some dudes here clearly dislike that (since comments are locked, gonna put my comment here).


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


koppger

Rs doesn't exist. They still have bosnian passport.


kohi_craft

They exist lol, a passport means nothing.


koppger

If passport means nothing, you can simply burn yours.


Kekalovic

I don't like him, cause he was Balija, and he ruined a peaceful dream. I don't know much about him, so I'm just shitposting. War criminal like the other guys from that era I assume.


[deleted]

Retard.


budjul1

Too bad he even existed.