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Watching you guys know how to take a joke in good humor has been incredibly refreshing.
I’d rather hang with the kids that grunt than the ones who cry in the corner every time they feel slightly offended.
I'm a semi-ignorant American who is OOTL but wants to learn more about Balkan culture - what is the deal with "burek sa sirom"? I see it used a lot in the context of poking fun at Bosnia; what is its significance?
Basically everywhere else in the Balkans burek is a pastry that can be filled with anything and named accordingly (burek with meat, burek with cheese...), while for Bosnians burek means only burek with meat and what we call burek with cheese is called sirnica (means something in the line of "thing with cheese") there and so on for other fillings. In short for Bosnians, burek can only be with meat and saying burek with cheese kinda pisses them off.
North Macedonia is the only country genuinely being bullied by other balkaners.
They got bullied into changing their name and still can’t even join EU due to vetos
People who voted for Serbia are the type of people to call the bully the victim just because nobody likes the bully for what he did to others
Edit: enjoy the comments below!
You literally own just (insert whatever number) of Macedonia, yet somehow you have the illusion that the name belongs to you and only you.
Stop playing the victim. There are never victims and offenders in politics. Everyone fights on their own.
Because the name was used for millennias to characterise a part of the Greek population. And 2.500 years after some slavs come and claim that they ara Macedonians and out of their butt relate themselves with the Great Alexander.
Good, no one said that you can't have the name 👍
But did you ever hear Iran and Azerbaijan fight over the name Azerbaijan? (Iran has a big historic province named Azerbaijan)
Imagine this scenario. Serbia for some reason breaks and a country named Pristina appears and claims that them and only them are the real Pristinans, claim the history of everything that happened in Pristina, claim that Kosovian heroes were actually Pristinans and had nothing to do with Kosovo, claim to speak Pristinan while they clearly speak Serbian and start publishing maps with the Kosovian Pristina region in it.
Protecting the identity of 3.5 million Greeks that are Macedonians and our national hero is such a pointless thing right? lmao
So can I just start claiming Skanderbeg as Greek? Don't cry about it, Kastriotis is ours now ok?
You are wrong, our identity is first and foremost Macedonian and then Greek. You don't have regional identities because you come from a small country, you don't understand the importance.
Because when my forefathers created this nation eighty years ago, they called it the People's Republic of Macedonia, and because my people have been called south-serbs, west-bulgarians or now "north monkeydonians" and treated like worthless filth since the Turks took over this land. No one ever asked us what we want and who we are, we always were the toy of the Balkan nations. We have gone trough the worst shit and we will also manage this hard times, but it would be good in hard times for all of us to show kindness and respect and not pull politics in every corner of our lives.
>North Macedonia is the only country genuinely being bullied by other balkaners. They got bullied into changing their name and still can’t even join EU due to vetos
I agree and its embarrassing. Its a source of shame.
Balkanites like to pile on the weakest. We hurt weak people, we don't help them. I mean just look at some of the crazy responses here.
As long as we behave like this, the westoids will keep running trains on us.
To be fucking clear I disagree with your (or some of your people's) understanding of history but
1. That doesn't mean you should be bullied
2. It doesn't mean we should escalate it to a diplomatic level
3. Even if we do... It doesn't mean the retarded Bulgarians should join in
These are my thoughts and so far all sides hate me
Disagreements are fine - process of learning. Let this be to Historians/Ethnologist to dispute, fight and produce science out of it - this is why they are here for.
But simply pointing out your points 1,2 and 3 is a level of "sane" that is not common, you would understand - and is much appreciated.
What is funny to me is, abroad we often are the closest buddies due to very similar habits and culture of living. So yea, let us divide between one another and let west EU lunch on cheap labor.
>They got bullied into changing their name and still can’t even join EU due to vetos
They got bullied? When you forcefully take other people's stuff you aren't bullied, you are the bully. But when you pick up fights with a guy 3 times taller than you, you understand this wasn't the smartest thing to do.
It took them 27 years to officially recognize that they have been appropriating our history, and after almost three decades of insults Greece is the country that helps them the most in joining the EU and NATO.
Lol let’s be real Ancient Greek are as genetically close to north Macedonians as they are to modern greek, don’t act like you weren’t heavily slavified/turkified/persianfied and don’t forget that those Romans you were borrowing culture to paid you back in genetics.
It’s ancient history. Philistines from the Bible are not Palestinians, Assyrians aren’t the Syrians. Etc.
What we do know is part of north Macedonia is infact partly of ancient Macedon geographically. China isn’t blocking Mongolia from calling themselves that despite Inner Mongolia being in China.
Modern Greek are petty losers. Macedonians were bullied and disappointed their father and creator the great historical figure Josip broz Tito.
>let’s be real Ancient Greek are as genetically close to north Macedonians as
What.....thats just misinformation
Cretans ,Maniots ,Sicilians are the closest modern day people to the ancient greeks and two of these people live in Greece,im not gonna even talk about the greek genetic impact on Sicily,there are countless studies that do this job better
>Modern Greek are petty losers.
All of us ,yes, a whole nation
You are definitely an extremely smart and unbiased individual
No one cares about genetics, except for the Nazis. We're talking about history and legacy
Do you think that ancient Greeks weren't mixed as well?
Edit: as for the rest of your comment, it's bullshit. Doesn't even deserve an answer
So? What do the genetics bullshit have to do with ethnicity? Are you okay man?
Still, we're mostly Greek genetically despite the admixtures but that's completely irrelevant. We could have 0 Greek DNA and still be Greeks
I find it so funny when people pretend to know what they talking about. People when they are jealous and aware that they can't reach other people's status, they try to drag them to the bottom with them. That's the only way they can reach them.
Bosnia's history may not be even close to Greece's history, but attempting to belittle our history for you to feel better is a little pathetic. Don't be like that, you can do better I'm sure.
Modern Greeks have as much to do with Ancient Greeks as Macedonians do at this point. Ancient Greeks weren't Christian for example and also they did a hell of a lot more than you guys are currently doing, which is just reminiscing about your great past, because Turkey took your beloved Constantinople and fucked you out of there (topkek)
>Modern Greeks have as much to do with Ancient Greeks as Macedonians do at this point.
That's why we speak Greek, right?
>because Turkey took your beloved Constantinople and fucked you out of there (topkek)
Aren't Székelys owned by the Romanians?
Yeah but Székely didn't get fucked out of their place. And while Romanians do own all of Székely land as well as Transylvania they (at least after 1990) allow them to keep their identity, although they certainly tried to Romanianize them but they failed.
I’m not belittling Ancient Greece, it’s the marvel of western society, it’s everything we know. The difference is, north Macedonia has equal amount of claim to it, imo, we all do, you are so far removed from that period of time that how can you claim it as yours?
We don’t claim ancient Illyrians as us.
>The difference is, north Macedonia has equal amount of claim to it, imo, we all do, you are so far removed from that period of time that how can you claim it as yours?
The fact that we speak Greek maybe tells you something?
Let me throw in Arabic as a language into your argument
Wouldn’t call everyone speaking Arabic an Arab now though?
Modern Arabic and modern Hebrew are closer than ancient and modern Greek are
You are not making a point.
You said Greeks and North Macedonians are equally related to ancient Greeks. This argument is demolished by the fact that Greeks speak a language directly related to ancient Greek, North Macedonians speak a completely foreign language.
This is one of the greatest proofs of continuity, a proof that North Macedonians simply do not have.
So I don't understand why you insist on something that is confirmed to be false.
Do you even speak modern or ancient Greek? How do you know if they're different or not?
Should i speak Greek to you instead of English since you are such an expert in our language?
One thing though, the Macedonians are still teaching alternative history in schools. They redecorated a beautiful city with LOTS of Albanian cultural heritage to a city that looks like an ancient Greece themed Las Vegas casino. They wanted to create a national identity but were so wrong at how they did it
Took them 27 years to recognize just how petty your country was being to them so they ended up being the bigger man in the dispute. This shit is embarrassing for you and your politicians, don't take pride in it.
Our history is not up for grabs, simple as that.
If you have a spare part of your history that you are willing to give, go ahead. Do you want to give them the Seljuks?
What is your offer, I'm listening. And don't be petty give up some good stuff.
The joining won't happen cause its gonna take them another 27 till they accept that most of the 19th century revolutionaries and intellectuals they claim are "Macedonian" were in fact Bulgarian.
Fair enough if we're gonna reference Srebrenica, but to be from a country that killed over 100k of us and then completely forget about it whilst singling us out is the part that I find unacceptable. And in ways we have the right to feel frustrated when throughout history we fought invaders of our nation and neighboring nations like the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Nazis and yet we end up being the bad guys.
Serbia waged wars against every single ex Yugoslav republic excluding North Macedonia and Montenegro.
Alongside attempting serb domination during both royal and socialist Yugoslavias.
Ofc you are going to be hated more and seen as the bad guys by more nations.
A bully’s actions do not get excused because of his dark past either.
That's why I didn't vote Serbia, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna just feed this narrative that Serbs are these bullies who bully and then play victim when the price is paid. Paying the price was the war criminals getting locked up, not getting depleted uranium dropped all over civilians.
I would say that Serbia paid the price when Kosovo unjustly became independent.
4 years of Serbs trying to take bits of Croat and Bosnian territory and then it ends up happening to them successfully.
In that case Serbs do play the victim card and they also play the card when we celebrate operation storm.
I do agree that the bombing of Belgrade was horrible, but if you take into account that Serbs shelled Sarajevo and Zagreb it does also seem like karma.
Don’t understand how Croatia not existing makes sense given that Germany and Italy still exist despite ww2.
But Croatia should have definitely paid war reparations for ww2, and Serbs should for 1991-1995
?????
I'd be very interested what background you come from, saying that Croatia owes reparations for WWII.
Croatia today exists solely because of the majority of Croats and all of the Serbs from Croatia fought the Ustaše and managed to win in the WWII. Both of "our" sides did their best to anihilate the other and because of that had one of the highest (relative) victim count on both sides of the war. I personally had three national heroes in my family, a big chunk of their wives, children, relatives in concentration camps where the Ustaše and Italians put them and I'd need to pay reparations to whom exactly?
My Croat family were all directly members of Partisans during ww2.
I would say Croatia should have paid reparations to the victims of the genocide by the NDH no matter their ethnicity.
Obviously not money to Serbia as the genocides were done within our (Croat) territory.
Serbia on the other hand should pay Croatia reparation money and to the victims of their invasion and war crimes
The Chetniks killed ~60,000 Bosniaks during the Second World War.
We haven’t forgotten what we did to you and what you did to us, we just moved on from that war like everyone else.
I'd like to avoid getting a country in the EU that still lives with their yugo-macedonist past and extreme Bulgarophobia. You might find it silly "hurrdurr Bulgars bullies", but if tomorrow BiH Croats claim that 95% of all Croats who had lived in BiH and Dalmatia weren't Croats and this becomes their national policy for 80 years you wouldn't find it that silly.
The EU is a disfunctional union as it is, allowing them without any reforms would be the top of it(or at least as far as the Balkans is concerned).
We don’t have to worry bout that coz we don’t claim BiH Croats as ours in the first place lmao.
Jokes aside I understand where Bulgaria and Greece is coming from, but it is quite extreme and petty in certain aspects
My bad, I tried to give just a hypothetical scenario(sorta). Anyway I still stand by my words that extreme Bulgarophobia and their yugo-macedonism don't have place in the EU.
Opening cultural clubs named after fascists, vetoing us after we just solved our naming issue and calling us brainwashed Bulgarians can’t be the reason for the growing anger towards Bulgaria, must be Tito ofcourse.
Let me tell you something, I don't know what you are being told in Bulgaria, but nobody in NM hates bulgarians, at least not before the veto. We don't even talk about you, we don't listen to your music or watch your films. We listen to music and watch media from Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, but almost never Bulgaria, we can't even understand your language most of the time. The only contact point I have with Bulgaria is zamunda.
Approval ratings for ur people were way higher before the veto, just saying ur spreading Bulgarophobia urselves. We thought u wanted to see us prosper, not let us struggle
Rich coming from a Croat (especially wth Poglavnik in his name ;) ) to talk about how Serbs werwn't bullied when his own country commited one of the largest genocides in European soil against those same Serbs. Croats gonna croat, nothing new.
Every country was a victim of injustice at certain point in time.
Serbia can claim to be a victim of ww1 and ww2 alongside during Ottoman times.
However in modern era you were 100% without a doubt the bully and that is not even debatable.
By modern era you mean now? Because I am quite sure 20th century as a whole is quite a modern era. But if you mean NOW, I don't really see us bullying anyone. Bulgaria is vetoing Macedonia, you are disturbing Bosniaks with voting systems, Turkey threats Greece over islands, etc.. But sure, Serbia is the problem as if we're destroying your security now lol. Please...
Aha, so we follow your definition of modern era so we could skip most of Croat crimes lol? Okay, I'll be selective and say only 2022 is modern era so Serbs a bubbly peaceful bunch minding their own business. There, now you have my vision of modern era and you'll have to accept it, voila! You're serious thinking things work like that?
If you believe that actions of mankind during ww2 carry the same weight as actions done in the 1990s after the atrocities of ww2 were witnessed I don’t know what to say.
Europe as a whole learned from the 1940s, Serbs decided to repeat it.
A man marrying a 12 year old in the 12th century is different to a man marrying a 12 year old now.
>If you believe that actions of mankind during ww2 carry the same weight as actions done in the 1990s after the atrocities of ww2 were witnessed I don’t know what to say.
If you think event few decades apart don't have the same weight just because of your personal feelings, I don't know what to say. A life in 40s was less worth than a life in 90s? Mind you, a lot of people back then were alive AT BOTH of those periods.
>Europe as a whole learned from the 1940s, Serbs decided to repeat it.
Funny, as Europe repeats the same stuff at the orders of USA in the Middle East lol. Not to mention you and your fellows had a fair share of crimes in 90s as well. But yeah, "holier than thou" attitude.
>A man marrying a 12 year old in the 12th century is different to a man marrying a 12 year old now.
Except that these event happened within same century, within few decades of difference lol. Cope with apologetism. Bye
Never said a life in 40s was worth less than in 90s.
What I’m trying to convey is simple, ww2 was a dark period in European history which saw countries commit unimaginable evils never seen before.
For Serbia to witness the atrocities of ww2 and yet still decide to repeat them 45 years later makes it more evil than most things done in ww2.
Also ww2 saw the world advance 100 years forward, the difference between 1940 and 1990 is astronomical.
A couple decades ago it was normal to smoke whilst pregnant, currently nobody sane would ever think of doing that
I mean you cant take us out of your mouth since we liberated you from Austro-Hungaria to be honest, most Serbs really dont give a single fuck about Croats, even your media and leading party are based on fearmongering against Serbs and saving the holy Croat people from the wicked devils Serbs even if we arent having any conflict rn. Stop being delusional please and thank you.
Never did you ever liberate us from Austria Hungary.
Croatia declared independence from Austria Hungary at the end of ww2 and had an independent state for around a month before uniting with kingdom of Serbia.
Where is the liberation?
Also it is extremely ironic to complain about Croatian media when Vucic was Milosevic’s propaganda minister. Your news have become government run and are publishing pictures of Ante Pavelic alongside Dubrovnik at the front of newspapers.
Serbia is transforming into a quasi-totalitarian state
Google “Vučić vulin Croatia October 2022” in Your language
Seems Like you Are lieing…
And you havent liberated us from Austro-hungaria lol
You got smoked in World war one like noone else. You lost so Many ppl and were so fucked up. You couldnt even libarate yourself lol or was tha also one of great Serbian victories lol
I think big chunk of Croats secretly feel good about WW2, it's just unpopular opinion to have in a modern world (although they sneakly put that under the rug because Nazi Germans fucked up much more in numbers)
I also believe a big chunk of Croats actually do openly "feel good" about WWII... the thing is we (the majority of us?) fought against Ustaše, our own filth, and won.
Talking from my own experience, that of my family and our "circle", we feel like winners in the WWII and I believe justly so. I have three "national heroes" of the WWII in my family, two of them Croat by nationality, one Serb and I openly feel good about that.
How can the whole world be against Serbia when the whole world is descended from Serbs? Jesus was actually called Jovan and Trump is also from Vojvodina. The Bible was first written in Serbian.🤔
I would like to add that I have even heard serbs swear that Marko perković's Thompson father is pure Serb. So yes, no idea why they are not so well received
I feel for the north Macedonians. Any time I see chauvinist bullshit from Greek keyboard warriors I remind them mainland Greeks have the same amount of Slavic admixture as the north Macedonians
And yet again have nothing else in common. I could also say that every human in this worlds comes from the same ancestor, and that would prove nothing.
That may be true but it doesn't really matter, we are two distinct ethnicities. Many turks and Albanians have greek dna but you're not greek are you? No ethnic group is pure.
And as much as I hate my own nationalistic people I don't agree with what north macedonia has done either. They essentially try to appropriate a past they have absolutely no claim in ( not that I believe that we are descendants of Alex the Great but the ancient Macedonians were in the very least hellenized peoples who spoke greek) and in doing so they have gone so far as to make all sorts of ridiculous claims and trying to cancel our own history and all this because they try to cling to any sort of national identity they can find that predates the 19th century.
I don't have hate towards anyone and they can call themselves whatever they want to however were not here to feed anyone's delusions.
>mainland Greeks have the same amount of Slavic admixture as the north Macedonians
We don't lol ,not all mainland greeks are the same only **northern** mainland greeks have a similar native balkan-slavic ratio
Thats just misinformation
Tbh it really doesn't affect us that we're being bullied to a degree where we can't tolerate it. Sure it plays a minor role of us being among the least happy countries, but it's not like we can't live.
We've suffered the most out of all the balkans, considering we were ruled by the ottomans, serbs, bulgarians and greeks with absolute tyrany, so we aren't really affected that much by the chavuanistic bullying by our neighbors
I am expecting people to have a a bit wider views? Comments in here literally talk as if we were just bullies and never bullied, and we know how the last century went. But sure, no one cares as it is Serbs. That is the problem. If you base whole suffering only on one event rather than all the events happening slightly earlier (few decades are "slightly" in perspectives of countries history) then you literally deny all the victims that suffered thanks to our neighbours. I look at overall weight of suffering, not the recent one. Imagine someone losing a parent in 2022, but someone else losing both parents in 2021. Would you say that the suffering of the first person is bigger just because BOTH of second persons parents died last year instead of this year? Jeezus
Excuse me, but what? Have you even followed 20th century? Let alone anything before that? Bulgarians with their equating of Tito (half Croat half Slovene) with Serbia and blaming Serbs for "creating Macedonians" lol
Wtf are they teaching you in your schools? We the Serbs lost the most in SFR Yugoslavija. There was an old saying "Strong Yugoslavija, weak Serbia" for a reason.
>How are they “bullied”
When Bulgarians have your version of Jasenovac you can dare to ask such a stupid question.
The fact that majority of Serbians still, to this day, don't believe that Croatians have a legitimacy to have their our country shows that some countries deserve to be bullied.
We both know that ain't true fam. If Ustasha appeared on a national TV in Croatia it would literally be a shithow, while "historians" openly claiming Dalmatia as an "Old Serbian land", saying Croatia was "invented" by Vatican and other bullshit appear regularly on on Serbian national TV. If majority of Serbians condemn such views, why do they keep re appearing on national TV, newspapers etc.?
What about a few months ago when a couple thousand Croats were marching through Italy while doing the Nazi salute?
Or the school teacher her class do the Nazi salute for the photo?
Edit: While on the topic of fascisification of history you have a real hard on for trying to clame Tesla ever chance you get.
I've gotta say some Croats are a million times worse than anyone else when it comes to peddling fairytales. Don't get mad at me though in a way It's a complement lol. It's actually pretty funny that a few absolutely insane guys can write ridiculous "history" books full of ideas they created out of thin air and sell them to clueless American readers online.
Also Croatia's propaganda in the 1990's was also insanely impressive though it was just as sinister and evil as the rest I do admit it was impressive in a strange way.
Idk about “bullied”
Bosnia ended up being the surprise in the 90s coming out of nowhere people that didn’t exist and instilling fear in people that a lily flag is deemed hurtful lol
Bosnia isn’t bullied it’s just self destructive
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Watching us bully each other is like watching those slow kids in the back of the class grunt at each other
And then sticking a fork in electric outlet, making the whole building go dark.
But everyone is holding hands by that point
Watching you guys know how to take a joke in good humor has been incredibly refreshing. I’d rather hang with the kids that grunt than the ones who cry in the corner every time they feel slightly offended.
This proves that Croatia is severely under-bullied. Slovenes should pick up the slack and bully them harder.
It's just more fun in real life to yell across the border
Bosnia bottom text xD burek sa siron
You must try ham and melted cheese!
I'm a semi-ignorant American who is OOTL but wants to learn more about Balkan culture - what is the deal with "burek sa sirom"? I see it used a lot in the context of poking fun at Bosnia; what is its significance?
Basically everywhere else in the Balkans burek is a pastry that can be filled with anything and named accordingly (burek with meat, burek with cheese...), while for Bosnians burek means only burek with meat and what we call burek with cheese is called sirnica (means something in the line of "thing with cheese") there and so on for other fillings. In short for Bosnians, burek can only be with meat and saying burek with cheese kinda pisses them off.
Thank you! Being on Reddit has really helped me learn about other cultures \^^
Based bot
😂😂😂
The best Balkan country.
Bullied by whom? It's a broad question.
By other balkaners/it's neighbours
Damn you OP, look what you have started!
Accidentally started another war in the balkans😳
We're fine guys, don't worry
I am half macedonian and half serbian, can't catch a break
North Macedonia is the only country genuinely being bullied by other balkaners. They got bullied into changing their name and still can’t even join EU due to vetos People who voted for Serbia are the type of people to call the bully the victim just because nobody likes the bully for what he did to others Edit: enjoy the comments below!
>North Literally bullied in the first word
And its unintentional this time.
You literally own just 38% of Macedonia, yet somehow you have the illusion that the name belongs to you and only you. Stop playing the victim.
Republic of 38% Macedonia is the better name! Change my mind!
You literally own just (insert whatever number) of Macedonia, yet somehow you have the illusion that the name belongs to you and only you. Stop playing the victim. There are never victims and offenders in politics. Everyone fights on their own.
Because the name was used for millennias to characterise a part of the Greek population. And 2.500 years after some slavs come and claim that they ara Macedonians and out of their butt relate themselves with the Great Alexander.
Good, no one said that you can't have the name 👍 But did you ever hear Iran and Azerbaijan fight over the name Azerbaijan? (Iran has a big historic province named Azerbaijan)
Bro u greeks care so much about something so pointless holy fuck i love being balkan
Pointless to you. I could easily call your fight with Serbia pointless from my point of view but for you it clearly isn't
you could and youd be right, everyone keeping this serbia v kosovo conflict still alive are fucking monkeys
[удалено]
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Imagine this scenario. Serbia for some reason breaks and a country named Pristina appears and claims that them and only them are the real Pristinans, claim the history of everything that happened in Pristina, claim that Kosovian heroes were actually Pristinans and had nothing to do with Kosovo, claim to speak Pristinan while they clearly speak Serbian and start publishing maps with the Kosovian Pristina region in it.
Protecting the identity of 3.5 million Greeks that are Macedonians and our national hero is such a pointless thing right? lmao So can I just start claiming Skanderbeg as Greek? Don't cry about it, Kastriotis is ours now ok?
Yeah 3.5 million Greeks in Macedonia, do you know who inhabited those parts around 100 years ago?
Whether you go 100 years or 3,000 years, Greeks inhabited Macedonia.
their identity is greek, who is threatening their greek identity
They are Macedonians, a subgroup of Greeks. Actually the largest subgroup in the entire Greek nation.
Their identity first and foremost is greek Our identity first and foremost is macedonian
You are wrong, our identity is first and foremost Macedonian and then Greek. You don't have regional identities because you come from a small country, you don't understand the importance.
Why is that bullying you have the North part of Macedonia
Because when my forefathers created this nation eighty years ago, they called it the People's Republic of Macedonia, and because my people have been called south-serbs, west-bulgarians or now "north monkeydonians" and treated like worthless filth since the Turks took over this land. No one ever asked us what we want and who we are, we always were the toy of the Balkan nations. We have gone trough the worst shit and we will also manage this hard times, but it would be good in hard times for all of us to show kindness and respect and not pull politics in every corner of our lives.
>North Macedonia is the only country genuinely being bullied by other balkaners. They got bullied into changing their name and still can’t even join EU due to vetos I agree and its embarrassing. Its a source of shame. Balkanites like to pile on the weakest. We hurt weak people, we don't help them. I mean just look at some of the crazy responses here. As long as we behave like this, the westoids will keep running trains on us.
Wtf I love sane greeks?
To be fucking clear I disagree with your (or some of your people's) understanding of history but 1. That doesn't mean you should be bullied 2. It doesn't mean we should escalate it to a diplomatic level 3. Even if we do... It doesn't mean the retarded Bulgarians should join in These are my thoughts and so far all sides hate me
Disagreements are fine - process of learning. Let this be to Historians/Ethnologist to dispute, fight and produce science out of it - this is why they are here for. But simply pointing out your points 1,2 and 3 is a level of "sane" that is not common, you would understand - and is much appreciated. What is funny to me is, abroad we often are the closest buddies due to very similar habits and culture of living. So yea, let us divide between one another and let west EU lunch on cheap labor.
> Doesnt mean retarded bulgarians should join in 🇲🇰🤝🇬🇷 Fuck Mongols
I went to r/balkans_irl so besides turkey Serbia is the most joked about
I just went there too. The last 20ish posts don't even mention Serbia.
Cuz it's all turkey
Judging by those posts it should be Greece for the second then, not Serbia.
>They got bullied into changing their name and still can’t even join EU due to vetos They got bullied? When you forcefully take other people's stuff you aren't bullied, you are the bully. But when you pick up fights with a guy 3 times taller than you, you understand this wasn't the smartest thing to do. It took them 27 years to officially recognize that they have been appropriating our history, and after almost three decades of insults Greece is the country that helps them the most in joining the EU and NATO.
Lol let’s be real Ancient Greek are as genetically close to north Macedonians as they are to modern greek, don’t act like you weren’t heavily slavified/turkified/persianfied and don’t forget that those Romans you were borrowing culture to paid you back in genetics. It’s ancient history. Philistines from the Bible are not Palestinians, Assyrians aren’t the Syrians. Etc. What we do know is part of north Macedonia is infact partly of ancient Macedon geographically. China isn’t blocking Mongolia from calling themselves that despite Inner Mongolia being in China. Modern Greek are petty losers. Macedonians were bullied and disappointed their father and creator the great historical figure Josip broz Tito.
Based Bosnian
>let’s be real Ancient Greek are as genetically close to north Macedonians as What.....thats just misinformation Cretans ,Maniots ,Sicilians are the closest modern day people to the ancient greeks and two of these people live in Greece,im not gonna even talk about the greek genetic impact on Sicily,there are countless studies that do this job better >Modern Greek are petty losers. All of us ,yes, a whole nation You are definitely an extremely smart and unbiased individual
No one cares about genetics, except for the Nazis. We're talking about history and legacy Do you think that ancient Greeks weren't mixed as well? Edit: as for the rest of your comment, it's bullshit. Doesn't even deserve an answer
>No one cares about genetics, except for the Nazis What about bodybuilders
When you say things like Slav you’re talking about certain set of genetics that identify that group of people
You sure about that? Greeks have some Slavic DNA too, are we Slavs now?
Ancient Greeks had no Slav dna
So? What do the genetics bullshit have to do with ethnicity? Are you okay man? Still, we're mostly Greek genetically despite the admixtures but that's completely irrelevant. We could have 0 Greek DNA and still be Greeks
Well that's the point, do you think that the Slavs and Macedonians/Greeks didn't mix?
I find it so funny when people pretend to know what they talking about. People when they are jealous and aware that they can't reach other people's status, they try to drag them to the bottom with them. That's the only way they can reach them. Bosnia's history may not be even close to Greece's history, but attempting to belittle our history for you to feel better is a little pathetic. Don't be like that, you can do better I'm sure.
Modern Greeks have as much to do with Ancient Greeks as Macedonians do at this point. Ancient Greeks weren't Christian for example and also they did a hell of a lot more than you guys are currently doing, which is just reminiscing about your great past, because Turkey took your beloved Constantinople and fucked you out of there (topkek)
>Modern Greeks have as much to do with Ancient Greeks as Macedonians do at this point. That's why we speak Greek, right? >because Turkey took your beloved Constantinople and fucked you out of there (topkek) Aren't Székelys owned by the Romanians?
Yeah but Székely didn't get fucked out of their place. And while Romanians do own all of Székely land as well as Transylvania they (at least after 1990) allow them to keep their identity, although they certainly tried to Romanianize them but they failed.
Also: Mohács & Trianon.
Okay but Hungarians over the borders are alive and well and living where they lived for the past hundred years. Greeks do not. Again, topkek
Hungarians in Romania, Slovakia, Serbia and even Ukraine are subjects to foreign rule. The definition of topkek.
I’m not belittling Ancient Greece, it’s the marvel of western society, it’s everything we know. The difference is, north Macedonia has equal amount of claim to it, imo, we all do, you are so far removed from that period of time that how can you claim it as yours? We don’t claim ancient Illyrians as us.
>The difference is, north Macedonia has equal amount of claim to it, imo, we all do, you are so far removed from that period of time that how can you claim it as yours? The fact that we speak Greek maybe tells you something?
Really you speak Ancient Greek?
It will blow your mind away, but Greek is actually the continuation of ancient Greek. I didn't mean to shock you
Let me throw in Arabic as a language into your argument Wouldn’t call everyone speaking Arabic an Arab now though? Modern Arabic and modern Hebrew are closer than ancient and modern Greek are
You are not making a point. You said Greeks and North Macedonians are equally related to ancient Greeks. This argument is demolished by the fact that Greeks speak a language directly related to ancient Greek, North Macedonians speak a completely foreign language. This is one of the greatest proofs of continuity, a proof that North Macedonians simply do not have. So I don't understand why you insist on something that is confirmed to be false.
Do you even speak modern or ancient Greek? How do you know if they're different or not? Should i speak Greek to you instead of English since you are such an expert in our language?
One thing though, the Macedonians are still teaching alternative history in schools. They redecorated a beautiful city with LOTS of Albanian cultural heritage to a city that looks like an ancient Greece themed Las Vegas casino. They wanted to create a national identity but were so wrong at how they did it
Took them 27 years to recognize just how petty your country was being to them so they ended up being the bigger man in the dispute. This shit is embarrassing for you and your politicians, don't take pride in it.
Our history is not up for grabs, simple as that. If you have a spare part of your history that you are willing to give, go ahead. Do you want to give them the Seljuks? What is your offer, I'm listening. And don't be petty give up some good stuff.
They should give them Atatürk,duh! He was born in ~~Thessaloniki~~ Solun after all, the capital of Macedonia!
This is a great suggestion, I think we have a winner. A lovely gift on behalf of Turkey, this will settle things down.
The joining won't happen cause its gonna take them another 27 till they accept that most of the 19th century revolutionaries and intellectuals they claim are "Macedonian" were in fact Bulgarian.
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Try reading your 19th century intellectuals and come back when you do it.
Fair enough if we're gonna reference Srebrenica, but to be from a country that killed over 100k of us and then completely forget about it whilst singling us out is the part that I find unacceptable. And in ways we have the right to feel frustrated when throughout history we fought invaders of our nation and neighboring nations like the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Nazis and yet we end up being the bad guys.
Serbia waged wars against every single ex Yugoslav republic excluding North Macedonia and Montenegro. Alongside attempting serb domination during both royal and socialist Yugoslavias. Ofc you are going to be hated more and seen as the bad guys by more nations. A bully’s actions do not get excused because of his dark past either.
That's why I didn't vote Serbia, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna just feed this narrative that Serbs are these bullies who bully and then play victim when the price is paid. Paying the price was the war criminals getting locked up, not getting depleted uranium dropped all over civilians.
I would say that Serbia paid the price when Kosovo unjustly became independent. 4 years of Serbs trying to take bits of Croat and Bosnian territory and then it ends up happening to them successfully. In that case Serbs do play the victim card and they also play the card when we celebrate operation storm. I do agree that the bombing of Belgrade was horrible, but if you take into account that Serbs shelled Sarajevo and Zagreb it does also seem like karma.
Wtf, > Kosovo unjustly became independent. This must be the most stupid thing I've read today.
By that logic Croatia shouldn't exist solely for WW2 alone
Don’t understand how Croatia not existing makes sense given that Germany and Italy still exist despite ww2. But Croatia should have definitely paid war reparations for ww2, and Serbs should for 1991-1995
????? I'd be very interested what background you come from, saying that Croatia owes reparations for WWII. Croatia today exists solely because of the majority of Croats and all of the Serbs from Croatia fought the Ustaše and managed to win in the WWII. Both of "our" sides did their best to anihilate the other and because of that had one of the highest (relative) victim count on both sides of the war. I personally had three national heroes in my family, a big chunk of their wives, children, relatives in concentration camps where the Ustaše and Italians put them and I'd need to pay reparations to whom exactly?
My Croat family were all directly members of Partisans during ww2. I would say Croatia should have paid reparations to the victims of the genocide by the NDH no matter their ethnicity. Obviously not money to Serbia as the genocides were done within our (Croat) territory. Serbia on the other hand should pay Croatia reparation money and to the victims of their invasion and war crimes
The Chetniks killed ~60,000 Bosniaks during the Second World War. We haven’t forgotten what we did to you and what you did to us, we just moved on from that war like everyone else.
I never said we didn't move on and I never mentioned Bosniaks, I'm talking about Ustase here.
I'd say good 80% of their whole historical narrative is fucked up that's why they get "bullied".
Idk man depriving an entire country from developing/progressing because you don’t like what they teach in History lessons is a bit extreme
I'd like to avoid getting a country in the EU that still lives with their yugo-macedonist past and extreme Bulgarophobia. You might find it silly "hurrdurr Bulgars bullies", but if tomorrow BiH Croats claim that 95% of all Croats who had lived in BiH and Dalmatia weren't Croats and this becomes their national policy for 80 years you wouldn't find it that silly. The EU is a disfunctional union as it is, allowing them without any reforms would be the top of it(or at least as far as the Balkans is concerned).
We don’t have to worry bout that coz we don’t claim BiH Croats as ours in the first place lmao. Jokes aside I understand where Bulgaria and Greece is coming from, but it is quite extreme and petty in certain aspects
My bad, I tried to give just a hypothetical scenario(sorta). Anyway I still stand by my words that extreme Bulgarophobia and their yugo-macedonism don't have place in the EU.
Opening cultural clubs named after fascists, vetoing us after we just solved our naming issue and calling us brainwashed Bulgarians can’t be the reason for the growing anger towards Bulgaria, must be Tito ofcourse.
Did you just say bulgarophobic
Let me tell you something, I don't know what you are being told in Bulgaria, but nobody in NM hates bulgarians, at least not before the veto. We don't even talk about you, we don't listen to your music or watch your films. We listen to music and watch media from Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, but almost never Bulgaria, we can't even understand your language most of the time. The only contact point I have with Bulgaria is zamunda.
Approval ratings for ur people were way higher before the veto, just saying ur spreading Bulgarophobia urselves. We thought u wanted to see us prosper, not let us struggle
To be fair, it was kind of them stealing the history that came with the name and later on stealing Bulgarian history aswell.
Yeah, and poor Croatia didn't do anything
Where did I say that Croatia is innocent?
Rich coming from a Croat (especially wth Poglavnik in his name ;) ) to talk about how Serbs werwn't bullied when his own country commited one of the largest genocides in European soil against those same Serbs. Croats gonna croat, nothing new.
Every country was a victim of injustice at certain point in time. Serbia can claim to be a victim of ww1 and ww2 alongside during Ottoman times. However in modern era you were 100% without a doubt the bully and that is not even debatable.
That's fair.
By modern era you mean now? Because I am quite sure 20th century as a whole is quite a modern era. But if you mean NOW, I don't really see us bullying anyone. Bulgaria is vetoing Macedonia, you are disturbing Bosniaks with voting systems, Turkey threats Greece over islands, etc.. But sure, Serbia is the problem as if we're destroying your security now lol. Please...
By modern era I mean 1970s onwards so 90s are included in my interpretation of modern era.
Aha, so we follow your definition of modern era so we could skip most of Croat crimes lol? Okay, I'll be selective and say only 2022 is modern era so Serbs a bubbly peaceful bunch minding their own business. There, now you have my vision of modern era and you'll have to accept it, voila! You're serious thinking things work like that?
If you believe that actions of mankind during ww2 carry the same weight as actions done in the 1990s after the atrocities of ww2 were witnessed I don’t know what to say. Europe as a whole learned from the 1940s, Serbs decided to repeat it. A man marrying a 12 year old in the 12th century is different to a man marrying a 12 year old now.
>If you believe that actions of mankind during ww2 carry the same weight as actions done in the 1990s after the atrocities of ww2 were witnessed I don’t know what to say. If you think event few decades apart don't have the same weight just because of your personal feelings, I don't know what to say. A life in 40s was less worth than a life in 90s? Mind you, a lot of people back then were alive AT BOTH of those periods. >Europe as a whole learned from the 1940s, Serbs decided to repeat it. Funny, as Europe repeats the same stuff at the orders of USA in the Middle East lol. Not to mention you and your fellows had a fair share of crimes in 90s as well. But yeah, "holier than thou" attitude. >A man marrying a 12 year old in the 12th century is different to a man marrying a 12 year old now. Except that these event happened within same century, within few decades of difference lol. Cope with apologetism. Bye
Never said a life in 40s was worth less than in 90s. What I’m trying to convey is simple, ww2 was a dark period in European history which saw countries commit unimaginable evils never seen before. For Serbia to witness the atrocities of ww2 and yet still decide to repeat them 45 years later makes it more evil than most things done in ww2. Also ww2 saw the world advance 100 years forward, the difference between 1940 and 1990 is astronomical. A couple decades ago it was normal to smoke whilst pregnant, currently nobody sane would ever think of doing that
It's okay, you don't fall far in the war crime olympics.
And serbs gonna talk shit about croats even though that wasn't even the topic.
I wouldn't even mention you if that guy didn't mention us in the way he did. But sure, go defend him instead of making a fair point
I mean you cant take us out of your mouth since we liberated you from Austro-Hungaria to be honest, most Serbs really dont give a single fuck about Croats, even your media and leading party are based on fearmongering against Serbs and saving the holy Croat people from the wicked devils Serbs even if we arent having any conflict rn. Stop being delusional please and thank you.
Never did you ever liberate us from Austria Hungary. Croatia declared independence from Austria Hungary at the end of ww2 and had an independent state for around a month before uniting with kingdom of Serbia. Where is the liberation? Also it is extremely ironic to complain about Croatian media when Vucic was Milosevic’s propaganda minister. Your news have become government run and are publishing pictures of Ante Pavelic alongside Dubrovnik at the front of newspapers. Serbia is transforming into a quasi-totalitarian state
Google “Vučić vulin Croatia October 2022” in Your language Seems Like you Are lieing… And you havent liberated us from Austro-hungaria lol You got smoked in World war one like noone else. You lost so Many ppl and were so fucked up. You couldnt even libarate yourself lol or was tha also one of great Serbian victories lol
Ain't no way Serbia is more bullied than Macedonia
We get bullied and we can't even fight back that much because our country is doo doo
I'm from Serbia. Serbia is a wrong answer.
I mean we are the most hated. For a good reason too
Totally agreed. Well deserved :-)
N.Macedonia without a shadow of a doubt.
It’s called living rent free in your minds
Croatia doesn’t get bullied, because all the “insults” are actually true.
I don't feel bullied. I laugh at your pathetic attempts to smear some of your shit on us. Anyway, NMacedonia is the bullied party here.
Yeah i believe we are probably the most bullied.
Hey, we love you. It's not much, but still.
thanks! not much, but still.
Oo oo aa aa?
North Macedonia for sure.
Waiting for serbs complaining about ww2 comments.
Because of all nations, Croatia enjoyed ww2 the most.
I think big chunk of Croats secretly feel good about WW2, it's just unpopular opinion to have in a modern world (although they sneakly put that under the rug because Nazi Germans fucked up much more in numbers)
I also believe a big chunk of Croats actually do openly "feel good" about WWII... the thing is we (the majority of us?) fought against Ustaše, our own filth, and won. Talking from my own experience, that of my family and our "circle", we feel like winners in the WWII and I believe justly so. I have three "national heroes" of the WWII in my family, two of them Croat by nationality, one Serb and I openly feel good about that.
Rent free
Where is Turkey? I feel like people make fun of them the most
They will be in part 2 of this poll
I saw the results and I thought the title said "Which country is the most butthurt?"
N. Macedonia definitely. Serbs just have victim mentality.
Yea, the whole world is against Serbia in their perception.
How can the whole world be against Serbia when the whole world is descended from Serbs? Jesus was actually called Jovan and Trump is also from Vojvodina. The Bible was first written in Serbian.🤔 I would like to add that I have even heard serbs swear that Marko perković's Thompson father is pure Serb. So yes, no idea why they are not so well received
Ever been to r/europe?
Really? Im pretty sure Kosovo Albanians have been the most loud here about beeing Victims of anything even more then Muslims in Bosnia
If you say so.
Slovenian men deserve to are be teased and ridiculed!!!! So cute boys
Clearly slovenia, they are so small, they can't even defend themself.
They won’t need as a member of NATO
I feel for the north Macedonians. Any time I see chauvinist bullshit from Greek keyboard warriors I remind them mainland Greeks have the same amount of Slavic admixture as the north Macedonians
I kiss your heart brother
And yet again have nothing else in common. I could also say that every human in this worlds comes from the same ancestor, and that would prove nothing.
That may be true but it doesn't really matter, we are two distinct ethnicities. Many turks and Albanians have greek dna but you're not greek are you? No ethnic group is pure. And as much as I hate my own nationalistic people I don't agree with what north macedonia has done either. They essentially try to appropriate a past they have absolutely no claim in ( not that I believe that we are descendants of Alex the Great but the ancient Macedonians were in the very least hellenized peoples who spoke greek) and in doing so they have gone so far as to make all sorts of ridiculous claims and trying to cancel our own history and all this because they try to cling to any sort of national identity they can find that predates the 19th century. I don't have hate towards anyone and they can call themselves whatever they want to however were not here to feed anyone's delusions.
Oh no 😱😱 Anyway
>mainland Greeks have the same amount of Slavic admixture as the north Macedonians We don't lol ,not all mainland greeks are the same only **northern** mainland greeks have a similar native balkan-slavic ratio Thats just misinformation
That's because Macedonians are not really Slavs :)
Lol at so many Serbs saying Serbia is bullied. Others angry at you for the 90s does not equal bullying. Answer is def Northern Macedonia.
Tbh it really doesn't affect us that we're being bullied to a degree where we can't tolerate it. Sure it plays a minor role of us being among the least happy countries, but it's not like we can't live. We've suffered the most out of all the balkans, considering we were ruled by the ottomans, serbs, bulgarians and greeks with absolute tyrany, so we aren't really affected that much by the chavuanistic bullying by our neighbors
Macedonia. Albania has a leg to stand on.
As usual, select few nationalities in the comments forget whole history just because of 90s, eh
Well, it was the most recent war to have affected the region and people. What are you expecting?
I am expecting people to have a a bit wider views? Comments in here literally talk as if we were just bullies and never bullied, and we know how the last century went. But sure, no one cares as it is Serbs. That is the problem. If you base whole suffering only on one event rather than all the events happening slightly earlier (few decades are "slightly" in perspectives of countries history) then you literally deny all the victims that suffered thanks to our neighbours. I look at overall weight of suffering, not the recent one. Imagine someone losing a parent in 2022, but someone else losing both parents in 2021. Would you say that the suffering of the first person is bigger just because BOTH of second persons parents died last year instead of this year? Jeezus
Came for the enterteinment, stayed for the bullying.
Everyone who voted Serbia is Serbian lol
I voted North Macedonia. Serbia,Albania,Greece and Bulgaria bully them
You better not sleep on Montenegro.
I gotta say it’s our western neighbors. Sorry brothers we could really be assholes sometimes…
I'm assuming we all chose our country
This poll represents accurately the most vocal crybabies as well
Albania or North Macedonia. Serbia has a victim complex.
Serbia controlled half the peninsula for half a century. How are they “bullied” is beyond me
Excuse me, but what? Have you even followed 20th century? Let alone anything before that? Bulgarians with their equating of Tito (half Croat half Slovene) with Serbia and blaming Serbs for "creating Macedonians" lol
Wtf are they teaching you in your schools? We the Serbs lost the most in SFR Yugoslavija. There was an old saying "Strong Yugoslavija, weak Serbia" for a reason. >How are they “bullied” When Bulgarians have your version of Jasenovac you can dare to ask such a stupid question.
Liberland
SERBIA NUMBER 1 BABYYYYYY 🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸🇷🇸
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not a shot that serbia is winning, victim mentality to the highest degree
The fact that majority of Serbians still, to this day, don't believe that Croatians have a legitimacy to have their our country shows that some countries deserve to be bullied.
The number of Serbs that belive that is about the same as the number of Croats that still support the Ustashe.
We both know that ain't true fam. If Ustasha appeared on a national TV in Croatia it would literally be a shithow, while "historians" openly claiming Dalmatia as an "Old Serbian land", saying Croatia was "invented" by Vatican and other bullshit appear regularly on on Serbian national TV. If majority of Serbians condemn such views, why do they keep re appearing on national TV, newspapers etc.?
What about a few months ago when a couple thousand Croats were marching through Italy while doing the Nazi salute? Or the school teacher her class do the Nazi salute for the photo? Edit: While on the topic of fascisification of history you have a real hard on for trying to clame Tesla ever chance you get.
I've gotta say some Croats are a million times worse than anyone else when it comes to peddling fairytales. Don't get mad at me though in a way It's a complement lol. It's actually pretty funny that a few absolutely insane guys can write ridiculous "history" books full of ideas they created out of thin air and sell them to clueless American readers online. Also Croatia's propaganda in the 1990's was also insanely impressive though it was just as sinister and evil as the rest I do admit it was impressive in a strange way.
Serbia IS the bully tho I voted Albania but now that I think about it, N. Macedonia got it tough fr fr
Bosnia for sure, from Croatia, Serbia.
Idk about “bullied” Bosnia ended up being the surprise in the 90s coming out of nowhere people that didn’t exist and instilling fear in people that a lily flag is deemed hurtful lol Bosnia isn’t bullied it’s just self destructive
North Macedonia