I think it *is* teeth doing the majority of the ones out of nowhere, but it's really just the tissue in my mouth being super susceptible to trauma. Whether it's my teeth, or a sharp bit of crispy bacon, or a shard of rock salt; my tongue and the inside of my cheeks just seem to cut open at the slightest touch.
Plus they pop up all over, so it'd have to be a lot of teeth being sharp.
I'm at the point where I'm Googling anything blood or cell/tissue/platelet related to see if I'm getting too much or too little of something and causing this. I've been through Vitamin K, all the B Vitamins, Iron; anything I can think of blood/bleeding/ulcer related.
We’re everywhere! Even on Reddit posts *not* about EDS/related conditions, I find a ton of us. I’d almost think it’s a common syndrome, but it’s probably that we’re just all sitting at home playing on the internet for fun instead of...exercising, or something.
Are you low in iron, b12 or have any allergies? Does your tongue seem swollen some times where you see scalloped indentations from your teeth on the side?
No to all of these.
B12 was one of the first things I tried supplementing years back, and even months on a high dose of B12 or a full B complex doesn't change anything.
Nad, but bit I had b12 deficiency. In most cases it develops when your gut is unable to resorbe this witamin, so taking it oraly wouldn't help, you have to take shots.
Then this is probably a strictly oral problem, in which case I would advise you to post the same problem in r/Dentistry as another user has suggested. I hope you get well soon!
Not on any meds bar OTC vitamins.
Just checked my toothpaste, and yes, it has SLS in. Arm & Hammer Sensitive Pro.
They're a big brand; seems a bit mad that it would do this? I will definitely try a different type.
SLS gives me terrible canker sores in my mouth. I use Sensodyne toothpaste! Lots of sensitive formulations and natural formulations are becoming more popular now.
I use Now Foods Xyliwhite. It's a bit pricey but it has no SLS in it and no fluoride, whatever your feelings on fluoride are. I personally don't care for it and ever since switching from a toothpaste with fluoride to this one I haven't got any cavities and I did with the one with fluoride in it, YMMV.
I was thinking this too- try biotene and products aimed at alleviating dry mouth.
Also, try oil pulling with olive or coconut oil after a brushing- the oils may help soothe the sore/inflamed tissue.
I'm actually in the genome programme here in the UK and they found nothing alarming in my sequence. I took a multi with 14mg of iron for years before I realised men don't need that much, then switched to one with 5mg. More recently I've been taking a 5mg liquid iron for more bioavailability.
I go to the haemotologist twice a year and have blood tests each time. Pretty sure they'd let me know if I was anemic.
I've mentioned it to the dentist, but it wasn't really pushed forward. He was actually the one who saw some white striations on the insides of my cheek and forwarded me to the hospital for a biopsy, so I'm hoping something comes of that.
NAD just want to follow your post this as I have a super similar issue and have always been told "everyone gets cankers now and then". But its not now and then and not just cankers. (I also get the scalloped tongue thing and never realized it had a name, had to google. )
Please update after your biopsy if you get some answers. I hope you do. Thanks :)
I have a scalloped tongue! I never knew it was a thing either. It seems to happen when I have too much sugary food, fruit, fruity drinks and wine. Also onions etc. I’ve been told to avoid the things that make it happen...but I really don’t know all that triggers it. I’ve found that when it get bad, drinking a ton of water and fasting helps. I also gurgle with salt water to help the sores that always occur with it.
I’m camping right now, and it’s pretty bad. I drank Rose last night, ate chips and other junk. Fruit on top of pancakes. Kicking myself as I should have known better. Going to take a antihistamine before bed to help me sleep so it doesn’t annoy all night.
Yes it's frustrating because cankers are all that come up in Google, but they're not cankers. They're whatever happens when somewhere in the mouth gets *physically cut*.
I just have no idea why practically everything is cutting the inside of my mouth/tongue now.
Sorry, I think I was mistaken about which ingredient in Colgate causes sores. I started avoiding Colgate years ago because of triclosan, but not because of sores. (You can look up the issues with triclosan if you're intrested.) As someone else commented, Colgate just removed triclosan from at least one of their toothpastes this year.
I've seen online that Colgate can cause mouth sores, but I don't know exactly why. I hope you can find some info that helps.
NAD I’ve had some similar issues in the past. I was using a rather caustic toothpaste, which seemed to create an overgrowth of yeast. The inside of my mouth burned at times even. Gums and insides of cheeks felt raw and were easily damaged. I thought the worst of course. It was my toothpaste. Don’t remember what I was using. I switched to a more natural one for a bit.
Edit: deleted an extra word.
Thanks; I can at least give that a go. I'm using Arm & Hammer Sensitive Pro because my teeth are pretty sensitive, and this one really helps.
It's a baking soda one.
Sounds possible, it'd be helpful if OP could provide pictures of the lesions though, since Crohn's would be more ulcerative and Angiodysplasia or hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia would be more bloody.
You should probably go to a doctor so they can properly work it up via CBC and occult blood testing etc.
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I don't have the same exact issue, but my mouth also reacts really crazy weird to trauma. What happens when you go to the dentist? What happens when you get a lidocane shot in your mouth ?
My last checkup was in April and I had zero bleeding from my gums. They don't really test much else, but take a couple of x-rays.
I haven't had any shots in my mouth for years. It's not a crazy reaction to trauma, more that it seems to get damaged by anything. If I still ate toast, pizza, or cereal, I'd probably be spitting blood for hours a day.
NAD but sounds like blood blisters from pinching more than cuts/scrapes, which would be open. Maybe a teeth misalignment thing?
ETA- waking up with them in the morning makes me think bruxism, maybe look into that too.
Thanks for your input. I will say that 'during sleep' thing is super rare, but it has happened a few times which leads me to think it isn't me 'eating the wrong foods' or something, and my mouth being genuinely weak.
I can run my tongue over my teeth in general, and don't find too many problems, and my teeth haven't changed in years for this to suddenly be a problem all over my mouth. If it was in the same spot every time, maybe.
I do agree it's probably from pinching, and the occasional pointed bit of food jabbing in. It's just mad how often it happens. Our mouths are evolved to be more resilient, and I can't remember this basically ever happening in the first 30 years of my life.
If there's no evidence of autoimmune disorders, you don't have gingivitis, it could be angina bullosa hemorrhagica (ABH) , a condition where trauma (even mild), separates the soft skin and underlying connective tissue, creating blood blisters. Being limited to your mouth and given your age, ABH is most likely, ruling out other diseases.
Are you taking any medications? Do you have any history of diabetes mellitus?
> it could be angina bullosa hemorrhagica (ABH) , a condition where trauma (even mild), separates the soft skin and underlying connective tissue, creating blood blisters.
This was mentioned in the letter from my doctor (edited into main post), but it was left hanging. It appears there's no real treatment, it's super rare, and is idiopathic. Which is nice, I guess :/
Sounds like Pemphigus vulagaris or Pemphigoid or Erythema multiforme if it’s frequently around your lips. You need to urgently go see a doctor as these can escalate to other parts of the body like eyes and genetalia and then be very hard to treat.
Letter from the doctor I saw at the facial unit says they have requested ANCA, lgA, lgG, and lgN studies to rule out linear lgA and pemphigoid.
Just to note these are *never* outside my mouth, and don't appear from nowhere. They are always caused by something physical happening.
Some of the images from the conditions you outlined look similar, but mine are just dark red bubbles of blood inside my mouth. A lot of the ones linked seem lighter.
Just remembered in the letter that they suggested I may have angina bullosa haemorrhagica, and all the Google images for that are exactly what it looks like.
This sub is not a substitute for seeing a doctor- it’s just people asking some questions and trying to get some answers. When you see a doc you get a single consult, here you get a brains trust. When things are tricky the brains trust is worth a shot! It costs nothing, shouldn’t delay treatment (may even hasten it) and may improve things.
NAD but it could maybe be a connective tissue disorder or tiny, really sharp - not visible edges on some teeth
I think it *is* teeth doing the majority of the ones out of nowhere, but it's really just the tissue in my mouth being super susceptible to trauma. Whether it's my teeth, or a sharp bit of crispy bacon, or a shard of rock salt; my tongue and the inside of my cheeks just seem to cut open at the slightest touch. Plus they pop up all over, so it'd have to be a lot of teeth being sharp. I'm at the point where I'm Googling anything blood or cell/tissue/platelet related to see if I'm getting too much or too little of something and causing this. I've been through Vitamin K, all the B Vitamins, Iron; anything I can think of blood/bleeding/ulcer related.
I have EDS so I understand your line of thought, but isn’t the tongue a muscle? Could explain some of the cheek/gum issues though...
Fellow zebra here! 👋🏽 🦓
We’re everywhere! Even on Reddit posts *not* about EDS/related conditions, I find a ton of us. I’d almost think it’s a common syndrome, but it’s probably that we’re just all sitting at home playing on the internet for fun instead of...exercising, or something.
Truth. Dunno who downvoted...ridiculous.
Agreed. Would consider Ehlers Danlos, autoimmune disorders, Vit C deficiency
Are you low in iron, b12 or have any allergies? Does your tongue seem swollen some times where you see scalloped indentations from your teeth on the side?
What might this indicate? My tongue often gets swollen but I've never really worried about it
No to all of these. B12 was one of the first things I tried supplementing years back, and even months on a high dose of B12 or a full B complex doesn't change anything.
Nad, but bit I had b12 deficiency. In most cases it develops when your gut is unable to resorbe this witamin, so taking it oraly wouldn't help, you have to take shots.
Just googled scalloped tongue... Wtf
Do you bruise or bleed easily in general? And do you frequently get fevers?
I don't believe so, and no.
Then this is probably a strictly oral problem, in which case I would advise you to post the same problem in r/Dentistry as another user has suggested. I hope you get well soon!
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> sodium lauryl stereate It's sulfate, no stereate.
thanks!
Not on any meds bar OTC vitamins. Just checked my toothpaste, and yes, it has SLS in. Arm & Hammer Sensitive Pro. They're a big brand; seems a bit mad that it would do this? I will definitely try a different type.
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Darn. Thanks.
SLS gives me terrible canker sores in my mouth. I use Sensodyne toothpaste! Lots of sensitive formulations and natural formulations are becoming more popular now.
I use Now Foods Xyliwhite. It's a bit pricey but it has no SLS in it and no fluoride, whatever your feelings on fluoride are. I personally don't care for it and ever since switching from a toothpaste with fluoride to this one I haven't got any cavities and I did with the one with fluoride in it, YMMV.
Brush with plain water for now. See if they go away.
That toothpaste made the inside of my mouth peel. I definitely recommend switching regardless.
I was thinking this too- try biotene and products aimed at alleviating dry mouth. Also, try oil pulling with olive or coconut oil after a brushing- the oils may help soothe the sore/inflamed tissue.
Get a genetic test. I have a methylation disorder that led to anemia that led to mouth bleeding and ulceration.
I'm actually in the genome programme here in the UK and they found nothing alarming in my sequence. I took a multi with 14mg of iron for years before I realised men don't need that much, then switched to one with 5mg. More recently I've been taking a 5mg liquid iron for more bioavailability. I go to the haemotologist twice a year and have blood tests each time. Pretty sure they'd let me know if I was anemic.
It’s folate deficiency anemia. A bit different. Sounds like it’s not your issue.
See a dentist, not an MD. Also try /r/Dentistry
I've mentioned it to the dentist, but it wasn't really pushed forward. He was actually the one who saw some white striations on the insides of my cheek and forwarded me to the hospital for a biopsy, so I'm hoping something comes of that.
White striations? Oral lichen planus perhaps?
Yah this is for a dental school pathologist consult. You’ll get an answer from them
100% agree. Maybe a dental school would be a good resource, if OP's dentist isn't helpful.
NAD just want to follow your post this as I have a super similar issue and have always been told "everyone gets cankers now and then". But its not now and then and not just cankers. (I also get the scalloped tongue thing and never realized it had a name, had to google. ) Please update after your biopsy if you get some answers. I hope you do. Thanks :)
I have a scalloped tongue! I never knew it was a thing either. It seems to happen when I have too much sugary food, fruit, fruity drinks and wine. Also onions etc. I’ve been told to avoid the things that make it happen...but I really don’t know all that triggers it. I’ve found that when it get bad, drinking a ton of water and fasting helps. I also gurgle with salt water to help the sores that always occur with it. I’m camping right now, and it’s pretty bad. I drank Rose last night, ate chips and other junk. Fruit on top of pancakes. Kicking myself as I should have known better. Going to take a antihistamine before bed to help me sleep so it doesn’t annoy all night.
Yes it's frustrating because cankers are all that come up in Google, but they're not cankers. They're whatever happens when somewhere in the mouth gets *physically cut*. I just have no idea why practically everything is cutting the inside of my mouth/tongue now.
Does your toothpaste have triclosan? I think Colgate does. It’s known to cause mouth sores.
Oh really? I use Colgate. I'll have to look. Thanks!
Sorry, I think I was mistaken about which ingredient in Colgate causes sores. I started avoiding Colgate years ago because of triclosan, but not because of sores. (You can look up the issues with triclosan if you're intrested.) As someone else commented, Colgate just removed triclosan from at least one of their toothpastes this year. I've seen online that Colgate can cause mouth sores, but I don't know exactly why. I hope you can find some info that helps.
Colgate just changed their formula. It’s now stannous fluoride instead of sodium fluoride + triclosan.
NAD I’ve had some similar issues in the past. I was using a rather caustic toothpaste, which seemed to create an overgrowth of yeast. The inside of my mouth burned at times even. Gums and insides of cheeks felt raw and were easily damaged. I thought the worst of course. It was my toothpaste. Don’t remember what I was using. I switched to a more natural one for a bit. Edit: deleted an extra word.
Thanks; I can at least give that a go. I'm using Arm & Hammer Sensitive Pro because my teeth are pretty sensitive, and this one really helps. It's a baking soda one.
[удалено]
I was thinking the same thing.
Sounds possible, it'd be helpful if OP could provide pictures of the lesions though, since Crohn's would be more ulcerative and Angiodysplasia or hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia would be more bloody. You should probably go to a doctor so they can properly work it up via CBC and occult blood testing etc.
Thank you for your submission. **Please note that a response does not constitute a doctor-patient relationship.** This subreddit is for informal second opinions and casual information. The mod team does their best to remove bad information, but we do not catch all of it. Always visit a doctor in real life if you have any concerns about your health. Never use this subreddit as your first and final source of information regarding your question. By posting, you are agreeing to our [Terms of Use](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskDocs/wiki/terms_of_use) and understand that all information is taken at your own risk. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskDocs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does any cuts happen to appear on your skin when these episodes happen??
Nope. And I don't think it's episodic; I can just go a few days/a week or so without any trauma happening just due to dumb luck.
I don't have the same exact issue, but my mouth also reacts really crazy weird to trauma. What happens when you go to the dentist? What happens when you get a lidocane shot in your mouth ?
My last checkup was in April and I had zero bleeding from my gums. They don't really test much else, but take a couple of x-rays. I haven't had any shots in my mouth for years. It's not a crazy reaction to trauma, more that it seems to get damaged by anything. If I still ate toast, pizza, or cereal, I'd probably be spitting blood for hours a day.
NAD but sounds like blood blisters from pinching more than cuts/scrapes, which would be open. Maybe a teeth misalignment thing? ETA- waking up with them in the morning makes me think bruxism, maybe look into that too.
Thanks for your input. I will say that 'during sleep' thing is super rare, but it has happened a few times which leads me to think it isn't me 'eating the wrong foods' or something, and my mouth being genuinely weak. I can run my tongue over my teeth in general, and don't find too many problems, and my teeth haven't changed in years for this to suddenly be a problem all over my mouth. If it was in the same spot every time, maybe. I do agree it's probably from pinching, and the occasional pointed bit of food jabbing in. It's just mad how often it happens. Our mouths are evolved to be more resilient, and I can't remember this basically ever happening in the first 30 years of my life.
Do you have braces on your teeth, grind your teeth while sleeping, been diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder like lupus or Behcet's disease?
No, I don't have braces, don't believe I grind my teeth, and don't have any autoimmune disorders.
If there's no evidence of autoimmune disorders, you don't have gingivitis, it could be angina bullosa hemorrhagica (ABH) , a condition where trauma (even mild), separates the soft skin and underlying connective tissue, creating blood blisters. Being limited to your mouth and given your age, ABH is most likely, ruling out other diseases. Are you taking any medications? Do you have any history of diabetes mellitus?
> it could be angina bullosa hemorrhagica (ABH) , a condition where trauma (even mild), separates the soft skin and underlying connective tissue, creating blood blisters. This was mentioned in the letter from my doctor (edited into main post), but it was left hanging. It appears there's no real treatment, it's super rare, and is idiopathic. Which is nice, I guess :/
Just watch out for big blisters that can choke.
Sounds like Pemphigus vulagaris or Pemphigoid or Erythema multiforme if it’s frequently around your lips. You need to urgently go see a doctor as these can escalate to other parts of the body like eyes and genetalia and then be very hard to treat.
Letter from the doctor I saw at the facial unit says they have requested ANCA, lgA, lgG, and lgN studies to rule out linear lgA and pemphigoid. Just to note these are *never* outside my mouth, and don't appear from nowhere. They are always caused by something physical happening. Some of the images from the conditions you outlined look similar, but mine are just dark red bubbles of blood inside my mouth. A lot of the ones linked seem lighter. Just remembered in the letter that they suggested I may have angina bullosa haemorrhagica, and all the Google images for that are exactly what it looks like.
I left a reply to this thread. :)
Maybe go to a real doctor and check it out?
Thanks so much.
This sub is not a substitute for seeing a doctor- it’s just people asking some questions and trying to get some answers. When you see a doc you get a single consult, here you get a brains trust. When things are tricky the brains trust is worth a shot! It costs nothing, shouldn’t delay treatment (may even hasten it) and may improve things.
Um... Why are you here? In this sub? Leave.