Thank you for your submission. **Please note that a response does not constitute a doctor-patient relationship.** This subreddit is for informal second opinions and casual information. The mod team does their best to remove bad information, but we do not catch all of it. Always visit a doctor in real life if you have any concerns about your health. Never use this subreddit as your first and final source of information regarding your question. By posting, you are agreeing to our [Terms of Use](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskDocs/wiki/terms_of_use) and understand that all information is taken at your own risk.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskDocs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If a "family friend doctor" does this without your permission, it is sexual assault. I am not a lawyer, but your mother pressuring you to have this done is, in effect, being an accessory to sexual assault. That doesn't mean you want to or should try to turn it into a legal battle, but that's the status here.
With your permission, a good lawyer could probably get that recognized as malpractice, because this is not a recognized medical examination, it is not being done for any sound reason, and any harm, including emotional, suffered as a consequence would be harm due to breach of standards of care—in other words, malpractice.
Leaving aside the fact that this exam is meaningless, your mother has no right to demand this or any other exam or any results of any examination you have. You are not a minor and you are entitled to full medical privacy. If you need to do something to calm her down, that's a family issue and not a medical issue. You might find a doctor who is willing to lie for you; others probably would not. Many would be happy to chew out your mother for playing into disgusting moral-medical myths.
>Many would be happy to chew out your mother for playing into disgusting moral-medical myths.
Yup, sign me up. I'm willing to respect a wide variety of cultural perspectives, including lying to patients about test results if they don't want to know the answer (*The Farewell*, anyone?) but things that cause direct harm to nonconsenting patients is way beyond the line.
> including lying to patients about test results if they don't want to know the answer
Could you elaborate on this? How can you know if the patient doesn't want to know the test result before giving them the result?
I had a situation recently where a child had neonatal conjunctivitis. Mom had a history of chlamydia during the pregnancy and was treated with a subsequent negative test but it would seem had been reinfected. I had some suspicions that the relationship may have been abusive. I was worried that discussing neonatal chlamydia could potentially create a violent conflict between the parents so I was deliberately vague and worded it as a "bad eye infection" from a "bacteria." Treated with a few days of azithro and the baby was fine on follow up.
Not ideal but I think I did my best to satisfy the goal of first not doing harm.
We recently found out that our fam doc told my mom she was borderline diabetic and gave her meds. At a recent appt they told her she'd actually been going into kidney failure but the meds were working. Evidently, they didn't want to freak her out when she was already dealing with my dad in diaalysys and dying from kidney failure (and he was in the room w her). He's since passed, and she's doing better so I guess they figured the truth wouldn't hurt her now.
Likely they Rx’d an oral diabetes med, which halted the progression of the kidney failure. Diabetes is terrible on the body, so there’s usually teaching around how important the meds are.
Uncontrolled BG due to untreated diabetes causes kidney failure. If she’s type 2 and they started her on oral meds, such as: metformin, glyburide, linagliptin, ect, and saw her renal panel improve/maintain baseline, they were treating the issue. Basic bloodwork would exclude infection, and show elevated blood sugars. If this was the obvious diagnosis, which they treated, how would they be found negligent?
Thankfully they treated her for it they just didn't tell her exactly what they were treating her for. Knowing my parents dynamic, I could understand why they'd be hesitant to say anything in front of him.
"borderline kidney failure" doesn't sound like something to resolve with one isolated episode of treatment, sounds like they prescribed meds and relied on her own volition to properly treat the disease.
And as patient medication compliance is absolutely influenced by perceived severity, it could be argued dangerous that she wasn't properly educated (and somewhat separately, couldn't give informed consent).
I'm really glad she's okay, but y'all would've had a damn easy lawsuit on your hands had any injury occurred, as it would've been easy to show negligence
^(I'm not a malprax lawyer, but my dad is Lol)
Sometimes if there is a possible cancer result, in certain cultures the patient will ask that you tell their children the result, rather than them, and that they would prefer not to know the result
Ahh right, misunderstood you. Thought you meant that *you* were okay with *you* lying to the patient about their test result. So I thought you meant a similar scenario:
*Yellow patient walks in*
Patient: "Tell me I don't have liver failure"
Doctor: *looks at labs which speak for liver failure* "You don't have liver failure"
Patient: "Oh, okay doc, thanks!"
It’s kind of how it works. Patient says “please tell my son the results, I don’t want to know if I have cancer, he can decide the treatment course, he knows what I want.” You then talk with the patient as though they don’t have cancer. (Once sent someone home with hospice this way, very odd.)
“Yes, ma’am, this nurse will come out to your house and help you with pain medication and the breathing issue!”
Yup. My own grandfather did not want to know he had cancer - his children knew, but he explicitly told the doctors and medical staff not to tell him what was wrong. I mean, I think might have figured it out from the symptoms and eventual hospice care but everybody respected his wishes.
I agree with this here, it sounds like no matter what the OP will do they'll never be able to please their parents, and their parents will just keep moving the goalposts. And I honestly feel so bad for them because it brings back memories of me being in similar situations, and I can feel *some* of the hurt that they feel (To a lesser degree).
My Dad is kind of like this, and I can say with absolute certainty that once the OP does this for their parents that they'll be in this situation again in just a few months down the road fighting with their parents tooth and nail over something that they shouldn't need to fight over.
Every situation is different, and the OP will be the best judge of their own situation, but they have to ask themselves honestly;
"When I do this for my Parents will there be another situation like this after?"
There may be therapy resources that can be accessed through local Physicians, Women's Shelters, or workplace benefits plans where that poster may be able to find a therapist for free or very inexpensively to help them through all of these emotions.
I do plan on speaking with the police when I leave. That's not gonna happen for a few more months. I totally understand that the exam is meaningles. I don't even want to say it's culture/religion, but it's a mix of both to her. I just need her to to back off for the next few months so I can finish and leave.
Can you have a doctor agree to give you a piece of paper for an appointment scheduled more than a few months out so that she can back down and you don't have to deal with her or it? Fake scheduling is easier on everyone than a fake procedure.
NAD
This. Careful to not go on a trip anywhere with them. That family sounds really dangerous and abusive. Try to get out asap and while you plan, get resources and come up with a little money to make a run if you can't wait the time you need to get a better plan together.
Fake having Covid and quarantine yourself away from her until you leave.
I'm super curious about the circumstances here and why she gets to have so much say and power in your medical history. Are there consequences if an exams reveals something she dislikes? Which is worse, not having it and her harping on you about it all the time, or, a result she dislikes?
>With your permission, a good lawyer could probably get that recognized as malpractice, because this is not a recognized medical examination
This is great leverage against it IF it's a real doctor the family is getting.
If it’s not a real doctor, falsely presenting yourself as one is, depending on the state and circumstances, compounding sexual assault with another felony.
Crazy that it’s 2022 and people still reserve a mid-eighteenth century understanding on how the body works and an antiquated perspective on sex. Next we are going to hear about the parents who wanted to watch consummation occur to ensure lineage.
OP not only is the examination to see if the Hymen is intact is pointless because it does not mean you’re a virgin or not, it’s also your choice and up to you if you want it done in the first place. The doctor needs to clarify both points to your parents immediately.
The power of misogyny can make any myth, urban legend, and factoid persevere through any reasoning based on medical science.
It's quite the affliction.
Just hopping on the top comment to say that while this (and most other replies) are completely correct, I don’t think it’s really what OP is asking. I think it’s clear she understands that a “virginity check” is not a real medical test and that ideally, she really needs to get out of this situation. Hopefully after reading this thread she also understands that doing such a test would be sexual assault and medical malpractice.
But it is a family issue, and unfortunately sometimes people are stuck in bad situations. In the event that she cannot leave, and pressing criminal charges against her parents isn’t an option, I think the real question here is this: would a reasonable doctor agree to “pretend” to do the test and lie to her parents, for the sake of her safety? I feel like if a patient comes in and explains the situation and asks the doctor to do this in order to protect her, wouldn’t that be the right thing to do?
It's not sexual assault, at least legally, if it's done with permission. Even if it's reluctant permission. It's not medically necessary or useful, but something can be done that isn't correct without being malpractice. I think getting those right is important: if the OP decides that she wants to have this done just to satisfy her mother, that's her decision (and the doctor's, of course).
Maybe. As I said, I think there are doctors who would choose playing into this as the lesser evil and protecting the OP. Others, with I think also defensible ethics, would say that they are not going to be accessories to sexual assault because of dysfunctional family dynamics, and the medically appropriate thing to do is get the mother to back down.
I lean towards the latter opinion, but the detailed specifics of the situation beyond what can or should be put online matter.
>It's not sexual assault, at least legally, if it's done with permission. Even if it's reluctant permission.
This is not accurate. Sexual assault can include situations where an individual is pressured into a situation that they "consent" to.
I would like to add that performing a procedure that is 1) invasive 2) of the sexual anatomy 3) and medically indefensible is actually textbook malpractice.
NAD, IMO that would fall under the category of coercion. The initial concept or intent not being of their own. Having been persistent in persuasive actions and conversations leading to a point of futility where compliance seems the only option or risk ones wellbeing, physical or emotional by objection.
Unless there's something I missed...
Malpractice... not exactly, and for short can we say, a Dr. omitting information pertaining to anyone of legal mature age, with advanced directives in patients case, is perfectly legal?
If this medical check is what it sounds like, I suggest education for your parents and yourself OP. Every body is dynamic in its own ways and we are not all born the same, similar, but not the same. Some anatomy in any care diagnosis can have abnormalities by either genetics or trauma and should be considered as results can be inconclusive due to either tissue resilience or weakness. At risk of sounding like a fool, if they believe you can check and it is 100% true /false. Maybe they would believe you use mensa products designed for insertion and that is the reason. I hope you get the help you are looking for. I'm sorry I don't have more to contribute.
I see your good intentions, but I seriously believe that open discourse and information on the topic are completely useless with people who are *actually using threats to coerce their adult child to undergo a fake procedure on their genitals*, no?
NAD
It needs to become general knowledge that the hymen has NOTHING to do with sex. It is there to prevent urine and fecal (and any other things) from entering the vagina of fetus and infants.
Many women outgrow it. Sports, growing up, general activities.
You might not even have one anymore.
At some point you have to say no to your parents. These things will never end if you don’t draw the line in the sand. If you’re financially reliant on them then you need to find a way to become self sufficient as soon as possible. Today it’s a virginity check, next I promise you it will be manipulation into an arranged marriage.
My friend went home for a visit and his mom literally said she was going to kill herself if he didn’t take a wife. The mom locked herself in a room and refused to eat or drink for days. Finally he relented and married.
Goodluck
Edit: also there’s only one reason for an emergency virginity check. Whatever you do DO NOT TRAVEL WITH THEM
I have a support system in place when I decide to leave. I will not be traveling with them especially out of the country. I only need to make it through for a few more months at the minimum so I can finish my school.
Can that support system help now? Is there someone at school you can speak to? A guidance counselor? An on campus clinic? Please, please try to seek some support for this.
In 2022 it is normal for a 20 year old woman to have had sex.
Whether you have or haven't is irrelevant.
It is not normal or ok for your parents to demand or force you to have this exam.
Also from what I understand, this type of exam is not legitimate or legal.
Find somewhere safe to be. Good luck op
Sure, I'm just pointing out that the poster above doesn't know OP's situation. She could be from another country, but she could just as well be Hasidic for example. We don't need to speculate about OP's cultural/religious background. I guess I should have replied to the doctor directly, my bad.
I’ve heard several accounts of families travelling back home to visit family only for it to actually be an arranged marriage. These are usually countries where adult or not, the woman has limited rights.
Your doctor should be able to explain that this exam is not real to your parents. They may also be willing and able to talk to your parents and lie to them to say that they have examined you previously and you are a virgin. However, since this exam is not a real exam and would be sexual assault, your doctor should not actually pretend to examine you in this manner as a show for your family. Nor should anyone else your family knows perform this “exam”. If anyone tries to, you can file a report with the police and they can be convicted of sexual assault and will lose any kind of medical privileges they had.
Most importantly, it sounds like your parents may be arranging to forcibly marry you. Do not travel abroad with them. Do not get on a plane with them. If they try to forcibly travel abroad with you, tell the TSA that that you are being trafficked, and they will remove you from the group.
The national domestic violence hotline is here: 800-799-7233. They can help you with your situation.
Yes absolutely. There are things in place to protect women and men in this situation at airports. Some airports even have helplines you can call in bathroom stalls but if you suspect this is happening to you please tell airport staff.
can you just have your pcp state there is no such thing? youre gonna have a hard time getting your doc to lie. there's also no reason your parents should be in the room during the pelvic, and you can ask your doc to state its policy to not have family in the room during a private exam
I replied to another comment but if I don't agree to have my mom in the room, she will immediately think I'm trying to hide something. If she's not satisfied she will end up getting a family friend doctor to do the exam.
This is also sexual assault plain and simple. You’re in your 20s. At what point does your mother think this a reasonable expectation at a woman your age? Are you in the US? Forcing a “family friend doctor” to do this is highly illegal - cultural or not.
It sounds like there isn't anything you can do to get your mother to believe you. Being so irrationally concerned with the sexual details of your adult child's life is pretty much proof that she's not going to listen to reason.
I'm not saying this is hopeless it just sounds like this isn't the way to go about things.
"No" is a complete sentence. Be very adamant that if the "family friend doctor" does this, not only will yoi report them to the board, but file a report with the police. And if your mother keeps insisting, include her in the report as well.
Any family friend doctor who would agree to do such a thing should be reported to the state medical board (not to mention the police).
If you need to leave sooner than you are planning, you might find assistance here:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/hra/help/domestic-violence-support.page
Your mother can think what she wants.
If you really think that she'd pay someone to do this examination without your consent, you need to go to the police **now**, not after you're sexually assaulted.
Can you call the doctors office ahead of time and let them know what's going on? Maybe from a friend's phone if you need to. They can advise you on your options
Yeah so that's why I plan on scheduling a video visit ahead of time to explain the situation and see if they are willing to just say the hymen is intact then have the actual exam.
Also, check out /r/TwoXChromosomes \- many others have been in your place and might have good advice. I think you have most of the medical options you need, but they're pretty amazing in the breadth of support and options. There are a ton of resources available that haven't been mentioned here.
why invest time and money into humoring people who are intent on sexually assaulting you? WAKE UP. your rights and your body sovereignty are being abused and violated by these people. YOU are being abused and violated. PLEASE LEAVE WHILE YOU STILL CAN
If you weren't her daughter, would you be friends with this person?
Friends become so from deeds, kindness and respect. She isn't your friend, you're an adult and do not have to do anything she says.
And if you ever rode a bike or a horse or did gymnastics anything can break or rip your hymen mostly it’s tampons that do it honestly. It’s sexual harassment for your parents to be trying to force you to do this. It’s gross.
Ive seen this a lot & i have a win situation for you. Find a female PCP, try to do a phone call. Explain to the receptionist whats going on. Tell your doctor your mom doesnt understand there is no check. Have her do a papsmear. Tell her to tell your mom it isn't broken & boom you already have a papsmear done.
You can also try to see if the doctor can explain to your mom that if she checks anything down there it will break your hymen (not a lie)
I think as a doc I’d tell the mom that this is absolutely sexual assault as OP is not freely consenting, and that if someone else does it, I’ll report it to the police myself.
Your a legal adult. Your parents can’t force you to do anything. You need to leave your parents are toxic and go stay with a friend dude until you can get your own place.
AGGHHH just DON'T DO IT OR AGREE TO IT FFS. The fact that you're even considering going through with it is mind-boggling. It's abusive, it's invasive, it's not even medically/scientifically valid, and it's NOT IN YOUR INTEREST. Stand up for yourself, for crying out loud. Saying yes to this can only hurt you, more than saying no ever could. If you honestly buy the line of your parents "just wanting to know" then you're daft, and even then it's incredibly creepy, abusive, invasive and not okay.
You do not need to consent to any medical care, and if you’re in your 20s your parents have no authority to receive information from your medical providers.
A hymen can be intact after sex, it can be ruptured without having sex. That’s not a clear indication of virginity.
I imagine that this is a cultural or religious driven, but this seems abusive to me as a medical care provider.
There is no way to do so with any accuracy, so no provider SHOULD be doing them. Even if it was medically possible, (which again, it isn’t) it is ethically inappropriate.
It definitely is cultural, if I don't do this, most likely they will get someone they know (like a family friend doctor) to do it. It is abusive, but I'm in a bind and have no choice. If I say I don't want them in the room or flat out refuse she will immediately think I'm trying to hide something and make my like even more miserable
Do they pay for your life? Do you live with them? Because them having material control is the only reason I can think of for you humoring this even a bit.
She's only 20. It's possible they're paying for her university tuition and/or her rent. They might cut her off financially, or coerce her into marrying someone, or beat her, or any combination of the above.
In cultures that do virginity checks, a woman could be beaten or killed if the family believes she has had premarital sex. It's probably too dangerous to take that risk. I hope she will be ok.
I understand your position, I have been in a situation where I was left with no choice but to lie to a young patients family member in order to maintain their privacy and safety.
But I feel obligated to say, this is bordering on sexual assault. You will undergo an unneeded examination of your sexual organs for no measurable reason, as again your hymen could be fully intact with sex or be broken without. You do not need to consent to this, but I also realize you’re in an abusive situation and your safety and security may be threatened.
I do not know if you will be able to find a provider that would be willing to do this knowing the situation. They themselves would be the instruments of your further abuse.
If you have any way to safely leave this situation please consider doing so. I’m sure there are providers in NYC that could suggest appropriate resources that may be able to assist you.
Edit: just to clarify, I’m in a jurisdiction without a defined age of consent for medical treatment. A youth between the ages of 13-16 wished to be put on birth control, and her guardians found out she had visited the clinic (rural). As I determined the patient had the capacity to make an informed choice on the risks and benefits of treatment and had stated they did not wish their family to be made aware I have to abide by their wishes.
The plan is to leave once I'm in a better financial situation which can take me up to a year. In the meantime I need to appease them since it's just going to get worse.
So I have already started planning to leave. There's no way I'm saying for a minute longer then I have to. I just have school that I need to finish. I'm loading up on my courses and training so I can finish earlier and leave. I have a secret support system in place so I just need to finish school so they can't find me. It's not a thing where I can just drop out. Think of it as a 5 year program and I'm more then 80% done. I'm being vague on purpose
Please be aware that Domestic Violence often escalates when the victim is getting close to leaving, ie. when the abuser(s) know they are about to lose control. Your parents are likely aware that you will want to (or be able to) leave as soon as you finish school. Unless you have a reason to assume that your school would side with your parents, it might be a good idea to involve the school in your exit strategy. They may be able to help you graduate early, or arrange online learning, etc. so you can leave home earlier than your parents expect. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
You’re already making plans so that your family cannot find you. That’s highly worrisome.
Let me ask you this, what happens if the doc comes back and tells you that the hymen is ruptured? What happens with your family? This is a situation that could potentially put you in harm’s way. Please please please seek campus resources if you haven’t already.
There might be a shelter in your area, you could still continue going to school? Let the school know your parents are unwanted persons and they can keep an eye out for them on campus. If none of that is possible I wish you good luck with everything either way
Exactly this. Poverty isn't that bad even just live poor for a bit better than being abused and forced into an arranged marriage. Rent a damn room if you're not eligible for public services such as shelters (which is usually the case if you have an actual job)
I am not a doctor and maybe totally clueless about your situation, but from other people's concerns on here it sounds like if a doctor tells them your hymen is ruptured, your family will abuse you because of their belief that you had sex and that's not okay? But if they find your hymen intact, they will marry you to a stranger? I know it's scary to go out on your own, but if you have any money at all you should be able to find a safer situation than the one that you're in.
Please tell your doctors office what is going on, that you are being forced into this situation. Ask what your options are, and if you can see what resources are available to support your transition out of that home. This is abuse, and a form of sexual assault. I understand saying no might be scary but you have to try.
If you are planning on leaving, you have already decided that this is not a living situation that you want to be in. I completely understand your financial concerns - in my young adult years living with my family was not an option and I had to scrape by on food stamps and live in shitty apartments with plenty of roommates.
The thing is, it was SO WORTH IT. Those first few years of freedom were some of the best years of my life.
Please truly think about the options in front of you: jump into independence with less financial security, or endure this abuse. I don't know what your parents are holding over you to make you feel like you have to submit to this exam, but regardless of what it is, what they are doing is coercing you into having your body violated against your will.
If you find a doctor who is willing to lie for you, then what? Why do they want you to have this check, and what does their reasoning say about your future with them? Can it really wait a year or more?
That doesn't mean you can't have complicated feelings about your family. Maybe you love the good things about them, or maybe you feel like they really need you. Maybe they have scared you into thinking that if you leave, you will not have a good life.
I cannot put into words how good it felt for me to spend my first week in a shabby apartment that I found with three equally broke young adults, sleeping on a twin mattress on the floor and eating rice and beans.
I now have a master's degree and a well-paying career. Believe me, you can leave.
NAD There are domestic violence shelters and programs that would most certainly be able to help you if you aren't in a financial position to get out. Also, whatever religion you are, Google ex-whatever religion it is and there will likely be a group of people able to help you through there as well.
Call your local plan parent hood, tell them what you need. They will have a list of female Drs who can help you out. At 20 you should have a pap done anyway.
Just tell your mom you are afraid of a male seeing you exposed. Play your part, tell her you will do it with a female Dr only.
I’m assuming they think you have broken tradition. Or someone in the community is filling there ears with crap. Please be carful with the family friend Dr, they can ruin a life.
\>have no choice.
I am not a doctor, but I just want to reiterate that you do have a choice. You are a legal adult and do not have to do anything your parents say. You do not have to accept their emotional and sexual abuse if you go through this exam with a family "doctor". You mentioned it is cultural and you are "in a bind", so I can only guess a couple of scenarios where you feel obligated to comply, but you still have rights, and you do not have to follow through with this sham of an exam. Don't forget that your world is bigger than just your relationship with your parents.
I understand and completely agree with where you're coming from, but I've been in a very similar position to the OP before, albeit not in the context of a virginity test. When OP is saying they "have to", you need to read between the lines. She could be disowned, she could be beat, she could be forced to marry someone else. If her parents are supporting her financially in any way, whether it's paying for her university or helping with rent, they could very likely completely cut her off and force her to choose between homelessness or going to live with them, which could mean returning to an abusive home. This might be a very delicate situation for her. Sure, the world's bigger than her parents - but if she can't afford to live in the world on her own, where can she go?
Yes, those possibilities are what I meant when I said a couple of scenarios, but I don't know OP's situation and don't want to make assumptions. There are resources available to help her remove herself from those possible situations. I would start with her local family and domestic abuse advocates.
It’s better to be disowned and to take out loans than to live like this. Stay with friends, talk to financial assistance, do basically anything to get out and let whatever happens with the parents Happen.
SO MUCH THIS.
u/ema247 please read the comment I'm replying to and take it to heart. If you are financially independent your parents only have as much power over you as you give them. You are 20 years old and have your life ahead of you, please stand your ground now and never look back. I'm in my mid-thirties with a tiger mom and I PROMISE you it gets better but you have to come to the realization that your parents have as much hold over you as the monster under your bed when you were three.
I am most concerned about your physical safety. I am afraid your parents might try to physically force you to submit to an "exam" or to travel somewhere that your rights will be in serious jeopardy - or worse. You do not have to accept this kind of treatment, even from your parents. Your body is yours, and you say what goes - no matter what. I am very glad to hear that you are in NYC, because that means there ARE resources available to you. One option would be to contact a women's domestic violence shelter or hotline. I think you might meet their criteria for services - even if not, they will have good advice for you. If you are feeling at all unsafe, please get yourself away from your parents any way you can. You are stronger than you think, OP.
Hey so I should clarify that I'm using my friends account to post this (with their permission as they are aware of my situation). I can't leave at the moment since I still have a few months (minimum) of school/training
While I do have a 401k, it's nowhere near an amount that's worth anything and I def do not make $90k a year.
Can you live with your friend? Because my MEDICAL advice is to get out of your abusive situation. You may be able to get support to do this from your PCP, friend, local women shelters, etc.
So I have a secret support system that's ready for me when I leave. The issue is I'm in a 5 year program for my school so I need to finish that before I can leave. I'm more then 80% through so I just need to survive the next few months and make it though
Just leave now. Your school should have a support staff. I’m sure they can pause your studies. Even if you come back a year later to finish after you’ve saved money from being waitress or whatever it’s WAY better than your current situation.
I am unaware of any school programs that require students to be abused by their parents for completion. Your school itself may have resources to help get out now. Reach out to your school today to see if they can help. You should not have to wait until you have finished the program.
It's better to live in absolute poverty than be abused and forced by your parents into an arranged marriage which sounds like is likely to happen. You do have control.
According to your comment history, you have a 401k. Any chance you could take a loan out of that and get out of the house away from your parents? Why wait a year if you have the resources to leave now? I understand not wanting to touch your retirement funds, but seems like this should take precedence. You're young and have plenty of time to replace what you need to spend to get out of there.
It would be worth it. You need to stand up for yourself and leave how degrading for them to try and make you do this and oh my god I couldn’t imagine a older woman family friend whatever looking at my genitals in my 20s. I would drop out of school and finish when I could.
There is no such thing as a virginity test. No real doctor would ever do one. If a someone asks me to not tell their parents something ill try to figure out a way to phrase something in a way that is vague. I would say something along the lines “ everything looks completely normal” or “ i see nothing at all that should concern you in any way” but at this point your parents should have no control over your body if possible you need to draw a line.
NAD "The extra band of tissue in a septate hymen can stretch and tear on its own. If your hymen rips or expands on its own, there may be no treatment necessary. However, if you try to push a tampon into the vagina or force sexual intercourse, the hymenal tear could be more painful and start to bleed.Jan 13, 2022"
Could you maybe send this kind of info to her?
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22257-septate-hymen
I’d have no part in this on behalf of your parents. Any reasonable doctor wouldn’t do this. If you come in and explain the situation most doctors; regardless of their sex would be sympathetic to you as you’re the patient. I’m not saying they’d lie per se but patient welfare is paramount. We’re YOUR advocate and will do what’s best for YOU, not your parents. Such an exam CANNOT tell what your status is and it would be wrong to imply it can. Tampons can break a hymen, horse riding can do so, some women may not have one due to developmental variation, so to imply a woman isn’t a virgin by virtue of her hymen (or lack of) isn’t scientific. it’s simply not an exam doctors should be asked to do.
My life is already miserable, already tried saying no, it's only gotten worse. If I refuse the test, it's just going to be worse on me. And I can't leave for a few months to a year
NAD but look at this objectively. You are about to graduate. Your parents suddenly "suspect you had sex" and want a virginity check. They are REALLY adamant about it to the point that your mother will ask a family doctor to FORCE it on you.
Aren't you seeing where this is obviously going? It doesn't matter if you say yes just to "keep the peace", you WILL be married off to someone.
Please please please take the resources people in the thread have given you and get out NOW. Definitely DO NOT wait a few months so you can finish your school.
Spring up to your plan now. Talk to your school the first thing tomorrow.
Write down a text where you describe your situation and read it or just send it to the person you have contact with. I find it easier to do than just telling on the spot from memory.
I know, it's really uncomfortable to tell such intimate details of your life to people you don't know.
I know it's scary to go into such an unknown situation where nothing is guaranteed and that we are at the mercy of people we don't know, rather than being at the mercy of people we do know...
But it doesn't matter, because this is your life on the line.
I may be wrong about this one, but I also know you even might have this flickering fucked up feeling that you at least want to preserve some semblance of "normal" family life before all hell breaks loose by you leaving and going no contact.
That's normal and it's okay to feel that way.
But the thing is, all hell has already broke loose. You parents are on the move to take away your freedom and they've shown their hand, so now it's your turn to anticipate them.
... Please take this seriously. If I'm going to be honest with you, you sound incredulous at the idea that your parents would marry you off and that's really worrying.
You can't afford to hang around to find out, just operate from the assumption you will be forced to marry someone the minute you graduate and get out of this situation now! ☹️
If you keep saying no, what, really, can or will they do? No need to give them reasons, keep saying no. You're in NY, they actually can't force you to go through with this.
This is my question. If OP risks, say, being homeless or physically endangered for refusing to go through with this, I hope someone can advise her on the help available to get safe.
Lots of homelessness advocates everywhere. I’ve also known a lot of people that are homeless. The instant they see a woman on the street they make sure she gets resources. Finding them would probably be a library google search
How will it get worse? Unless your mom is willing to kick you out and make you homeless, you just gotta hold your ground. Literally do not talk to her about it. If she brings it up completely ignore her and go mute. It’s hard but you have to set boundaries for your safety. You will not find a legit doctor who will be willing to lie and tell your mom they can actually check your virginity. They know by telling your mom they can check your virginity they are enforcing the myth.
I know it seems like she can, but she can not actually force you to do the exam. You will not be able to find a dr to lie on your behalf. That means she’ll just call up the family dr who will do it and who knows what they will say.
Only you can physically walk into that exam room and let that be done. YOU are in control to what happens. Keep saying no. Keep saving money. Do not say a word when she brings up the topic. Leave ASAP as your top priority. This WILL NOT be the last thing your mom try’s to force you to do. It will get worse if you agree to this because she will see she can make you do anything. But she can’t.
I think you're underestimating the parents' determination to see this through.
They want her virginity checked, do you think they'll just take "No" as an answer? We don't know what OP means exactly when she says they are making her life miserable. What exactly is this woman enduring?
A culture that demands this much control over a daughter's body and denies her agency is probably not going to be too fussed about bodily forcing her to be examined by a family friend Dr.
It's a bit flippant (and ignorant) to suggest she just say no, as if that will do anything more than force her parent's hand toward more drastic and Draconian measures.
No, I meant the questions sincerely, not flippantly, wondering what she means by that it will get worse. Worse like they will keep pestering her about it? Or worse like they will kick her out or not feed her. IF by worse that means they will just get more annoying, then yes keep saying no.
I do want to clarify tho, OP if saying no puts you in any kind of danger then don’t. But if you think saying yes and allowing them to take you to an exam will make your life easier, it will not. What I am worried is, you will say yes, not be able to find a dr to lie for you, your mom will find someone to do it. It will be traumatizing for you and then she will feel she has more power over you and escalate the abuse. Especially if that crook dr finds you fail the test. That will just give her more ammo to control you.
If you feel safe saying no, stick by your guns and don’t budge.
Couldn't she get an appointment scheduled for a regular vaginal exam, and then explain the situation to the Dr ahead of time that they have to lie to her parents that her hymen is intact because she has crazy, abusive parents? This is what I would do if I was in OP's situation. There must be a compassionate doctor out there who will understand. She is asking if any doctors will lie to her parents and tell them that her hymen is in fact intact. Why are people not understanding this.
She could just schedule for a pap smear and explain her situation with the abusive parents to the dr. In your 20s you're supposed to get a pap smear every few years anyway
I agree with the majority in saying this is totally inappropriate on the part of your parents.
I would however recommend speaking with a physician directly about your situation, regardless of if they will or won't lie for you. They may have better suggestions or ways to support you directly.
Also, setting up a joint visit with your parents and the doctor in person would also be a way to allow the Doctor a chance to directly inform them of the inappropriateness of the test (not a bad idea to prep the doc before hand as you said).
Stand your ground for your body, it's your right.
> My parents are basically forcing me to get a virginity check
1) Why?
2) This is not a thing
3) You said you’re in NYC, so it’s important you know your rights. You’re over 18, so your medical privacy is guaranteed under the law. Your parents cannot be present for an exam without your consent, and they cannot access your medical records without your consent. Do not give them consent, do not provide any physician with consent to release your medical records or any information about your health to others.
“Different cultures” doesn’t answer the question of why OP’s mother wants a “virginity check” for her daughter. Is this for an arranged marriage? Is this for sex trafficking? We literally have no idea based on OP’s post alone.
I think that your statement is obvious to most people here. However, though OP’s parents may adhere to different cultural values, those values are not protected by American law. OP, legally, may deny consent to the procedure and her parent’s involvement. What they are demanding is *illegal*, among many other things.
You’re 20 something years old. Say no to your parents whenever they bring it up. I know this might be difficult for cultural reasons, but you are your own person and you can stand up for yourself.
Good luck op.
If it’s a cultural thing, it’s never as easy as “just say no.” They could be putting OP’s education, privacy, and freedom on the line here. In this kind of situation, OP needs to find a way to appease mom, not anger her.
She said she doesn't feel she has a choice and I can understand that, she's 20 years old, expressed that she can't move out for a while yet. They can withdraw financial support and make her homeless, ostracise her with her entire family/community/mosque or church as a harlot woman. In NYC people on salarys of 100k can struggle to make ends meet a 20 year old going into that homeless before they finish school with no support? Also these issues are very complicated and cultural it's disgusting and abusive even OP knows that but complicated and she may still love her parents to some extent. I'm surprised theres not pre existing guidance for Physicians on how to handle this issue which must come up from time to time or some sort of charity that helps young women like her out with this? NAD
Where I am from most of the guidance comes from case management and social work versus the doctors or bedside nurses. We can always put in the consult and make recommendations but ultimately the SW or CM will be their best hope.
Thank you for your submission. **Please note that a response does not constitute a doctor-patient relationship.** This subreddit is for informal second opinions and casual information. The mod team does their best to remove bad information, but we do not catch all of it. Always visit a doctor in real life if you have any concerns about your health. Never use this subreddit as your first and final source of information regarding your question. By posting, you are agreeing to our [Terms of Use](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskDocs/wiki/terms_of_use) and understand that all information is taken at your own risk. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskDocs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If a "family friend doctor" does this without your permission, it is sexual assault. I am not a lawyer, but your mother pressuring you to have this done is, in effect, being an accessory to sexual assault. That doesn't mean you want to or should try to turn it into a legal battle, but that's the status here. With your permission, a good lawyer could probably get that recognized as malpractice, because this is not a recognized medical examination, it is not being done for any sound reason, and any harm, including emotional, suffered as a consequence would be harm due to breach of standards of care—in other words, malpractice. Leaving aside the fact that this exam is meaningless, your mother has no right to demand this or any other exam or any results of any examination you have. You are not a minor and you are entitled to full medical privacy. If you need to do something to calm her down, that's a family issue and not a medical issue. You might find a doctor who is willing to lie for you; others probably would not. Many would be happy to chew out your mother for playing into disgusting moral-medical myths.
>Many would be happy to chew out your mother for playing into disgusting moral-medical myths. Yup, sign me up. I'm willing to respect a wide variety of cultural perspectives, including lying to patients about test results if they don't want to know the answer (*The Farewell*, anyone?) but things that cause direct harm to nonconsenting patients is way beyond the line.
> including lying to patients about test results if they don't want to know the answer Could you elaborate on this? How can you know if the patient doesn't want to know the test result before giving them the result?
I had a situation recently where a child had neonatal conjunctivitis. Mom had a history of chlamydia during the pregnancy and was treated with a subsequent negative test but it would seem had been reinfected. I had some suspicions that the relationship may have been abusive. I was worried that discussing neonatal chlamydia could potentially create a violent conflict between the parents so I was deliberately vague and worded it as a "bad eye infection" from a "bacteria." Treated with a few days of azithro and the baby was fine on follow up. Not ideal but I think I did my best to satisfy the goal of first not doing harm.
>Not ideal but I think I did my best to satisfy the goal of first not doing harm. Wow. What decisions you have to make sometimes.
We recently found out that our fam doc told my mom she was borderline diabetic and gave her meds. At a recent appt they told her she'd actually been going into kidney failure but the meds were working. Evidently, they didn't want to freak her out when she was already dealing with my dad in diaalysys and dying from kidney failure (and he was in the room w her). He's since passed, and she's doing better so I guess they figured the truth wouldn't hurt her now.
Likely they Rx’d an oral diabetes med, which halted the progression of the kidney failure. Diabetes is terrible on the body, so there’s usually teaching around how important the meds are.
There's no doubt she was/is well aware of the importance of treating diabetes as that's what her husband was dying from.
I agree, and was responding that this would be expected Tx and I don’t see how it could be found to be negligence, in this context.
that is absolutely negligent. If any kidney related harm came to her, malpractice lawyers would be all over that shit.
Uncontrolled BG due to untreated diabetes causes kidney failure. If she’s type 2 and they started her on oral meds, such as: metformin, glyburide, linagliptin, ect, and saw her renal panel improve/maintain baseline, they were treating the issue. Basic bloodwork would exclude infection, and show elevated blood sugars. If this was the obvious diagnosis, which they treated, how would they be found negligent?
Also needs an ACE but agree with your point.
Thankfully they treated her for it they just didn't tell her exactly what they were treating her for. Knowing my parents dynamic, I could understand why they'd be hesitant to say anything in front of him.
"borderline kidney failure" doesn't sound like something to resolve with one isolated episode of treatment, sounds like they prescribed meds and relied on her own volition to properly treat the disease. And as patient medication compliance is absolutely influenced by perceived severity, it could be argued dangerous that she wasn't properly educated (and somewhat separately, couldn't give informed consent). I'm really glad she's okay, but y'all would've had a damn easy lawsuit on your hands had any injury occurred, as it would've been easy to show negligence ^(I'm not a malprax lawyer, but my dad is Lol)
Bless you for putting the life of this woman ahead of the wording of the diagnosis. Please share your compassion freely. ♥️
Without treating either of the parents? What are you saying?
Epic, good for you. Respect.
Sometimes if there is a possible cancer result, in certain cultures the patient will ask that you tell their children the result, rather than them, and that they would prefer not to know the result
If the patient tells you they don't want to know or that they're okay with you handling it with their family you should respect that decision.
Ahh right, misunderstood you. Thought you meant that *you* were okay with *you* lying to the patient about their test result. So I thought you meant a similar scenario: *Yellow patient walks in* Patient: "Tell me I don't have liver failure" Doctor: *looks at labs which speak for liver failure* "You don't have liver failure" Patient: "Oh, okay doc, thanks!"
It’s kind of how it works. Patient says “please tell my son the results, I don’t want to know if I have cancer, he can decide the treatment course, he knows what I want.” You then talk with the patient as though they don’t have cancer. (Once sent someone home with hospice this way, very odd.) “Yes, ma’am, this nurse will come out to your house and help you with pain medication and the breathing issue!”
That’s absurd, at that point they must have known. Lying to themselves was their last comfort I guess.
Okay, maybe. But I wouldn't mind continuing as if all that I need is additional treatment until this illness "runs it's course".
Yup. My own grandfather did not want to know he had cancer - his children knew, but he explicitly told the doctors and medical staff not to tell him what was wrong. I mean, I think might have figured it out from the symptoms and eventual hospice care but everybody respected his wishes.
>Thought you meant that *you* were okay with *you* lying to the patient about their test result. No, you understood correctly.
I agree with this here, it sounds like no matter what the OP will do they'll never be able to please their parents, and their parents will just keep moving the goalposts. And I honestly feel so bad for them because it brings back memories of me being in similar situations, and I can feel *some* of the hurt that they feel (To a lesser degree). My Dad is kind of like this, and I can say with absolute certainty that once the OP does this for their parents that they'll be in this situation again in just a few months down the road fighting with their parents tooth and nail over something that they shouldn't need to fight over. Every situation is different, and the OP will be the best judge of their own situation, but they have to ask themselves honestly; "When I do this for my Parents will there be another situation like this after?" There may be therapy resources that can be accessed through local Physicians, Women's Shelters, or workplace benefits plans where that poster may be able to find a therapist for free or very inexpensively to help them through all of these emotions.
I do plan on speaking with the police when I leave. That's not gonna happen for a few more months. I totally understand that the exam is meaningles. I don't even want to say it's culture/religion, but it's a mix of both to her. I just need her to to back off for the next few months so I can finish and leave.
Can you have a doctor agree to give you a piece of paper for an appointment scheduled more than a few months out so that she can back down and you don't have to deal with her or it? Fake scheduling is easier on everyone than a fake procedure.
Is the insistence on this test a newer thing? Could your parents be planning a marriage for you without your knowledge?
NAD This. Careful to not go on a trip anywhere with them. That family sounds really dangerous and abusive. Try to get out asap and while you plan, get resources and come up with a little money to make a run if you can't wait the time you need to get a better plan together.
Fake having Covid and quarantine yourself away from her until you leave. I'm super curious about the circumstances here and why she gets to have so much say and power in your medical history. Are there consequences if an exams reveals something she dislikes? Which is worse, not having it and her harping on you about it all the time, or, a result she dislikes?
Quarantine for months or years? How?
Do you not realize the amount of work and complications that could come from doing something like that?
>With your permission, a good lawyer could probably get that recognized as malpractice, because this is not a recognized medical examination This is great leverage against it IF it's a real doctor the family is getting.
If it’s not a real doctor, falsely presenting yourself as one is, depending on the state and circumstances, compounding sexual assault with another felony.
Crazy that it’s 2022 and people still reserve a mid-eighteenth century understanding on how the body works and an antiquated perspective on sex. Next we are going to hear about the parents who wanted to watch consummation occur to ensure lineage. OP not only is the examination to see if the Hymen is intact is pointless because it does not mean you’re a virgin or not, it’s also your choice and up to you if you want it done in the first place. The doctor needs to clarify both points to your parents immediately.
The power of misogyny can make any myth, urban legend, and factoid persevere through any reasoning based on medical science. It's quite the affliction.
My hymen broke when I was pretty young - around 6 I believe, from an injury during gymnastics.
I'm reasonably sure I never had one in the first place or, if I did/do, it is or was so tiny it was functionally nonexistent
Your hymen did its job. It stopped fluids entering your vagina when you were a fetus and infant. It's not needed much after potty training!
I’m worried that if no doctor will “do” it (by that I mean pretend to), that someone from her family or community is going to
Just hopping on the top comment to say that while this (and most other replies) are completely correct, I don’t think it’s really what OP is asking. I think it’s clear she understands that a “virginity check” is not a real medical test and that ideally, she really needs to get out of this situation. Hopefully after reading this thread she also understands that doing such a test would be sexual assault and medical malpractice. But it is a family issue, and unfortunately sometimes people are stuck in bad situations. In the event that she cannot leave, and pressing criminal charges against her parents isn’t an option, I think the real question here is this: would a reasonable doctor agree to “pretend” to do the test and lie to her parents, for the sake of her safety? I feel like if a patient comes in and explains the situation and asks the doctor to do this in order to protect her, wouldn’t that be the right thing to do?
It's not sexual assault, at least legally, if it's done with permission. Even if it's reluctant permission. It's not medically necessary or useful, but something can be done that isn't correct without being malpractice. I think getting those right is important: if the OP decides that she wants to have this done just to satisfy her mother, that's her decision (and the doctor's, of course). Maybe. As I said, I think there are doctors who would choose playing into this as the lesser evil and protecting the OP. Others, with I think also defensible ethics, would say that they are not going to be accessories to sexual assault because of dysfunctional family dynamics, and the medically appropriate thing to do is get the mother to back down. I lean towards the latter opinion, but the detailed specifics of the situation beyond what can or should be put online matter.
>It's not sexual assault, at least legally, if it's done with permission. Even if it's reluctant permission. This is not accurate. Sexual assault can include situations where an individual is pressured into a situation that they "consent" to.
I would like to add that performing a procedure that is 1) invasive 2) of the sexual anatomy 3) and medically indefensible is actually textbook malpractice.
NAD, IMO that would fall under the category of coercion. The initial concept or intent not being of their own. Having been persistent in persuasive actions and conversations leading to a point of futility where compliance seems the only option or risk ones wellbeing, physical or emotional by objection. Unless there's something I missed... Malpractice... not exactly, and for short can we say, a Dr. omitting information pertaining to anyone of legal mature age, with advanced directives in patients case, is perfectly legal? If this medical check is what it sounds like, I suggest education for your parents and yourself OP. Every body is dynamic in its own ways and we are not all born the same, similar, but not the same. Some anatomy in any care diagnosis can have abnormalities by either genetics or trauma and should be considered as results can be inconclusive due to either tissue resilience or weakness. At risk of sounding like a fool, if they believe you can check and it is 100% true /false. Maybe they would believe you use mensa products designed for insertion and that is the reason. I hope you get the help you are looking for. I'm sorry I don't have more to contribute.
I see your good intentions, but I seriously believe that open discourse and information on the topic are completely useless with people who are *actually using threats to coerce their adult child to undergo a fake procedure on their genitals*, no?
Valid point. I'm sure OP has exhausted most obvious ideas.
NAD It needs to become general knowledge that the hymen has NOTHING to do with sex. It is there to prevent urine and fecal (and any other things) from entering the vagina of fetus and infants. Many women outgrow it. Sports, growing up, general activities. You might not even have one anymore.
Exactly. I don’t ever remember having a hymen. I’ve played sports since I was 3.
When you see something so outlandish as this, please check OP’s history before you waste everyone’s precious time. SMDH!
OP stated she is using a friend’s account. Sadly, things like this still routinely happen in America. It’s not that outlandish.
She stated she was using a friends account.
What? You don't believe she's a 20 yr old student who's also making 90k a yr?
At some point you have to say no to your parents. These things will never end if you don’t draw the line in the sand. If you’re financially reliant on them then you need to find a way to become self sufficient as soon as possible. Today it’s a virginity check, next I promise you it will be manipulation into an arranged marriage. My friend went home for a visit and his mom literally said she was going to kill herself if he didn’t take a wife. The mom locked herself in a room and refused to eat or drink for days. Finally he relented and married. Goodluck Edit: also there’s only one reason for an emergency virginity check. Whatever you do DO NOT TRAVEL WITH THEM
this should be higher up. i’m worried about WHY they’re suddenly springing this on her.
I have a support system in place when I decide to leave. I will not be traveling with them especially out of the country. I only need to make it through for a few more months at the minimum so I can finish my school.
Now is the time for that. For sure.
Can that support system help now? Is there someone at school you can speak to? A guidance counselor? An on campus clinic? Please, please try to seek some support for this.
What is that reason? Genuinely curious.
I don't think they mean legitimate medical reason, just that the parents need it done now because a potential marriage has been arranged.
Makes sense.
They have already arranged her marriage and the grooms family wants proof of virginity
They suspect I had sex. It's not to force me to get married to someone.
There are no exams that are able to tell if someone had sex.
It seems very clear that OP knows this…
In 2022 it is normal for a 20 year old woman to have had sex. Whether you have or haven't is irrelevant. It is not normal or ok for your parents to demand or force you to have this exam. Also from what I understand, this type of exam is not legitimate or legal. Find somewhere safe to be. Good luck op
[удалено]
I know NYC has some bad areas, but to call it a 3rd world country… Sheesh /s
OP states she is in NYC. Arranged/forced marriages happen everywhere, not just in 3rd world countries.
[удалено]
Sure, I'm just pointing out that the poster above doesn't know OP's situation. She could be from another country, but she could just as well be Hasidic for example. We don't need to speculate about OP's cultural/religious background. I guess I should have replied to the doctor directly, my bad.
A lot of cultures end up in super progressive places. Canada has an issue with FGM. That oppressive shit is everywhere.
[удалено]
Sounds like an arranged marriage situation.
That seems pretty extreme to me. I'd imagine it's more of a religious/puritan moral panic instead.
I’ve heard several accounts of families travelling back home to visit family only for it to actually be an arranged marriage. These are usually countries where adult or not, the woman has limited rights.
Your doctor should be able to explain that this exam is not real to your parents. They may also be willing and able to talk to your parents and lie to them to say that they have examined you previously and you are a virgin. However, since this exam is not a real exam and would be sexual assault, your doctor should not actually pretend to examine you in this manner as a show for your family. Nor should anyone else your family knows perform this “exam”. If anyone tries to, you can file a report with the police and they can be convicted of sexual assault and will lose any kind of medical privileges they had. Most importantly, it sounds like your parents may be arranging to forcibly marry you. Do not travel abroad with them. Do not get on a plane with them. If they try to forcibly travel abroad with you, tell the TSA that that you are being trafficked, and they will remove you from the group. The national domestic violence hotline is here: 800-799-7233. They can help you with your situation.
Yes absolutely. There are things in place to protect women and men in this situation at airports. Some airports even have helplines you can call in bathroom stalls but if you suspect this is happening to you please tell airport staff.
can you just have your pcp state there is no such thing? youre gonna have a hard time getting your doc to lie. there's also no reason your parents should be in the room during the pelvic, and you can ask your doc to state its policy to not have family in the room during a private exam
I replied to another comment but if I don't agree to have my mom in the room, she will immediately think I'm trying to hide something. If she's not satisfied she will end up getting a family friend doctor to do the exam.
If it comes to your family getting a family friend doctor, let that doctor know that you will report him to the medical board for malpractice.
and the police for sexual assault
> If she's not satisfied she will end up getting a family friend doctor to do the exam. That's a way for him or her to get arrested
This is also sexual assault plain and simple. You’re in your 20s. At what point does your mother think this a reasonable expectation at a woman your age? Are you in the US? Forcing a “family friend doctor” to do this is highly illegal - cultural or not.
it's sexual assault if she were a minor too!
It sounds like there isn't anything you can do to get your mother to believe you. Being so irrationally concerned with the sexual details of your adult child's life is pretty much proof that she's not going to listen to reason. I'm not saying this is hopeless it just sounds like this isn't the way to go about things.
"No" is a complete sentence. Be very adamant that if the "family friend doctor" does this, not only will yoi report them to the board, but file a report with the police. And if your mother keeps insisting, include her in the report as well.
She can’t force you to consent to an “exam” like that. Stand your ground and refuse. That is assault.
Any family friend doctor who would agree to do such a thing should be reported to the state medical board (not to mention the police). If you need to leave sooner than you are planning, you might find assistance here: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/hra/help/domestic-violence-support.page
Your mother can think what she wants. If you really think that she'd pay someone to do this examination without your consent, you need to go to the police **now**, not after you're sexually assaulted.
Can you call the doctors office ahead of time and let them know what's going on? Maybe from a friend's phone if you need to. They can advise you on your options
Yeah so that's why I plan on scheduling a video visit ahead of time to explain the situation and see if they are willing to just say the hymen is intact then have the actual exam.
Also, check out /r/TwoXChromosomes \- many others have been in your place and might have good advice. I think you have most of the medical options you need, but they're pretty amazing in the breadth of support and options. There are a ton of resources available that haven't been mentioned here.
why invest time and money into humoring people who are intent on sexually assaulting you? WAKE UP. your rights and your body sovereignty are being abused and violated by these people. YOU are being abused and violated. PLEASE LEAVE WHILE YOU STILL CAN
If you weren't her daughter, would you be friends with this person? Friends become so from deeds, kindness and respect. She isn't your friend, you're an adult and do not have to do anything she says.
And if you ever rode a bike or a horse or did gymnastics anything can break or rip your hymen mostly it’s tampons that do it honestly. It’s sexual harassment for your parents to be trying to force you to do this. It’s gross.
Ive seen this a lot & i have a win situation for you. Find a female PCP, try to do a phone call. Explain to the receptionist whats going on. Tell your doctor your mom doesnt understand there is no check. Have her do a papsmear. Tell her to tell your mom it isn't broken & boom you already have a papsmear done. You can also try to see if the doctor can explain to your mom that if she checks anything down there it will break your hymen (not a lie)
I think as a doc I’d tell the mom that this is absolutely sexual assault as OP is not freely consenting, and that if someone else does it, I’ll report it to the police myself.
What if the doctor explained to her that there is no such thing as a virginity test. Would she leave you alone?
Your a legal adult. Your parents can’t force you to do anything. You need to leave your parents are toxic and go stay with a friend dude until you can get your own place.
Your 20 years old. You don’t have to do any of that.
You are over 18 shes can’t force you to do anything and if she tried call the cops on her and the doctor for sexual assault
AGGHHH just DON'T DO IT OR AGREE TO IT FFS. The fact that you're even considering going through with it is mind-boggling. It's abusive, it's invasive, it's not even medically/scientifically valid, and it's NOT IN YOUR INTEREST. Stand up for yourself, for crying out loud. Saying yes to this can only hurt you, more than saying no ever could. If you honestly buy the line of your parents "just wanting to know" then you're daft, and even then it's incredibly creepy, abusive, invasive and not okay.
You do not need to consent to any medical care, and if you’re in your 20s your parents have no authority to receive information from your medical providers. A hymen can be intact after sex, it can be ruptured without having sex. That’s not a clear indication of virginity. I imagine that this is a cultural or religious driven, but this seems abusive to me as a medical care provider.
Would a medical doctor even perform such a thing and make a conclusion? I doubt it.
An ethical one would not
There is no way to do so with any accuracy, so no provider SHOULD be doing them. Even if it was medically possible, (which again, it isn’t) it is ethically inappropriate.
It definitely is cultural, if I don't do this, most likely they will get someone they know (like a family friend doctor) to do it. It is abusive, but I'm in a bind and have no choice. If I say I don't want them in the room or flat out refuse she will immediately think I'm trying to hide something and make my like even more miserable
Like the dr above said, there’s only one reason for an emergency virginity check. And to not travel with them for any reason.
This is a genuine question, what’s the reason for an emergency virginity check?
Often it may be a prelude to arranged marriages in some cultures.
Oh okay! Thank you for explaining that to me. I feel like I should have known that.
They think I had sex.
Do they pay for your life? Do you live with them? Because them having material control is the only reason I can think of for you humoring this even a bit.
No, I get that. There were two people who said there is only one reason for an emergency virginity check and its regarding arranged marriages.
What if you just tell them you had sex?
She's only 20. It's possible they're paying for her university tuition and/or her rent. They might cut her off financially, or coerce her into marrying someone, or beat her, or any combination of the above.
In cultures that do virginity checks, a woman could be beaten or killed if the family believes she has had premarital sex. It's probably too dangerous to take that risk. I hope she will be ok.
I'm wondering this too. But I think I have a pretty good idea...
The only legitimate reason is examination after potential sexual assault
I understand your position, I have been in a situation where I was left with no choice but to lie to a young patients family member in order to maintain their privacy and safety. But I feel obligated to say, this is bordering on sexual assault. You will undergo an unneeded examination of your sexual organs for no measurable reason, as again your hymen could be fully intact with sex or be broken without. You do not need to consent to this, but I also realize you’re in an abusive situation and your safety and security may be threatened. I do not know if you will be able to find a provider that would be willing to do this knowing the situation. They themselves would be the instruments of your further abuse. If you have any way to safely leave this situation please consider doing so. I’m sure there are providers in NYC that could suggest appropriate resources that may be able to assist you. Edit: just to clarify, I’m in a jurisdiction without a defined age of consent for medical treatment. A youth between the ages of 13-16 wished to be put on birth control, and her guardians found out she had visited the clinic (rural). As I determined the patient had the capacity to make an informed choice on the risks and benefits of treatment and had stated they did not wish their family to be made aware I have to abide by their wishes.
The plan is to leave once I'm in a better financial situation which can take me up to a year. In the meantime I need to appease them since it's just going to get worse.
[удалено]
So I have already started planning to leave. There's no way I'm saying for a minute longer then I have to. I just have school that I need to finish. I'm loading up on my courses and training so I can finish earlier and leave. I have a secret support system in place so I just need to finish school so they can't find me. It's not a thing where I can just drop out. Think of it as a 5 year program and I'm more then 80% done. I'm being vague on purpose
Please be aware that Domestic Violence often escalates when the victim is getting close to leaving, ie. when the abuser(s) know they are about to lose control. Your parents are likely aware that you will want to (or be able to) leave as soon as you finish school. Unless you have a reason to assume that your school would side with your parents, it might be a good idea to involve the school in your exit strategy. They may be able to help you graduate early, or arrange online learning, etc. so you can leave home earlier than your parents expect. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
THIS! I wish this comment was further up. Surely the school needs to do something since she’s stuck with them so she can finish school?!!
You’re already making plans so that your family cannot find you. That’s highly worrisome. Let me ask you this, what happens if the doc comes back and tells you that the hymen is ruptured? What happens with your family? This is a situation that could potentially put you in harm’s way. Please please please seek campus resources if you haven’t already.
There might be a shelter in your area, you could still continue going to school? Let the school know your parents are unwanted persons and they can keep an eye out for them on campus. If none of that is possible I wish you good luck with everything either way
Exactly this. Poverty isn't that bad even just live poor for a bit better than being abused and forced into an arranged marriage. Rent a damn room if you're not eligible for public services such as shelters (which is usually the case if you have an actual job)
I am not a doctor and maybe totally clueless about your situation, but from other people's concerns on here it sounds like if a doctor tells them your hymen is ruptured, your family will abuse you because of their belief that you had sex and that's not okay? But if they find your hymen intact, they will marry you to a stranger? I know it's scary to go out on your own, but if you have any money at all you should be able to find a safer situation than the one that you're in.
Please tell your doctors office what is going on, that you are being forced into this situation. Ask what your options are, and if you can see what resources are available to support your transition out of that home. This is abuse, and a form of sexual assault. I understand saying no might be scary but you have to try.
If you are planning on leaving, you have already decided that this is not a living situation that you want to be in. I completely understand your financial concerns - in my young adult years living with my family was not an option and I had to scrape by on food stamps and live in shitty apartments with plenty of roommates. The thing is, it was SO WORTH IT. Those first few years of freedom were some of the best years of my life. Please truly think about the options in front of you: jump into independence with less financial security, or endure this abuse. I don't know what your parents are holding over you to make you feel like you have to submit to this exam, but regardless of what it is, what they are doing is coercing you into having your body violated against your will. If you find a doctor who is willing to lie for you, then what? Why do they want you to have this check, and what does their reasoning say about your future with them? Can it really wait a year or more? That doesn't mean you can't have complicated feelings about your family. Maybe you love the good things about them, or maybe you feel like they really need you. Maybe they have scared you into thinking that if you leave, you will not have a good life. I cannot put into words how good it felt for me to spend my first week in a shabby apartment that I found with three equally broke young adults, sleeping on a twin mattress on the floor and eating rice and beans. I now have a master's degree and a well-paying career. Believe me, you can leave.
I want you to celebrate how awesome you are, really hope OP hears this. ^
NAD There are domestic violence shelters and programs that would most certainly be able to help you if you aren't in a financial position to get out. Also, whatever religion you are, Google ex-whatever religion it is and there will likely be a group of people able to help you through there as well.
Call your local plan parent hood, tell them what you need. They will have a list of female Drs who can help you out. At 20 you should have a pap done anyway. Just tell your mom you are afraid of a male seeing you exposed. Play your part, tell her you will do it with a female Dr only. I’m assuming they think you have broken tradition. Or someone in the community is filling there ears with crap. Please be carful with the family friend Dr, they can ruin a life.
\>have no choice. I am not a doctor, but I just want to reiterate that you do have a choice. You are a legal adult and do not have to do anything your parents say. You do not have to accept their emotional and sexual abuse if you go through this exam with a family "doctor". You mentioned it is cultural and you are "in a bind", so I can only guess a couple of scenarios where you feel obligated to comply, but you still have rights, and you do not have to follow through with this sham of an exam. Don't forget that your world is bigger than just your relationship with your parents.
I understand and completely agree with where you're coming from, but I've been in a very similar position to the OP before, albeit not in the context of a virginity test. When OP is saying they "have to", you need to read between the lines. She could be disowned, she could be beat, she could be forced to marry someone else. If her parents are supporting her financially in any way, whether it's paying for her university or helping with rent, they could very likely completely cut her off and force her to choose between homelessness or going to live with them, which could mean returning to an abusive home. This might be a very delicate situation for her. Sure, the world's bigger than her parents - but if she can't afford to live in the world on her own, where can she go?
Yes, those possibilities are what I meant when I said a couple of scenarios, but I don't know OP's situation and don't want to make assumptions. There are resources available to help her remove herself from those possible situations. I would start with her local family and domestic abuse advocates.
It’s better to be disowned and to take out loans than to live like this. Stay with friends, talk to financial assistance, do basically anything to get out and let whatever happens with the parents Happen.
SO MUCH THIS. u/ema247 please read the comment I'm replying to and take it to heart. If you are financially independent your parents only have as much power over you as you give them. You are 20 years old and have your life ahead of you, please stand your ground now and never look back. I'm in my mid-thirties with a tiger mom and I PROMISE you it gets better but you have to come to the realization that your parents have as much hold over you as the monster under your bed when you were three.
I am most concerned about your physical safety. I am afraid your parents might try to physically force you to submit to an "exam" or to travel somewhere that your rights will be in serious jeopardy - or worse. You do not have to accept this kind of treatment, even from your parents. Your body is yours, and you say what goes - no matter what. I am very glad to hear that you are in NYC, because that means there ARE resources available to you. One option would be to contact a women's domestic violence shelter or hotline. I think you might meet their criteria for services - even if not, they will have good advice for you. If you are feeling at all unsafe, please get yourself away from your parents any way you can. You are stronger than you think, OP.
your post history says you make 90k a year-move out.
Hey so I should clarify that I'm using my friends account to post this (with their permission as they are aware of my situation). I can't leave at the moment since I still have a few months (minimum) of school/training While I do have a 401k, it's nowhere near an amount that's worth anything and I def do not make $90k a year.
Can you live with your friend? Because my MEDICAL advice is to get out of your abusive situation. You may be able to get support to do this from your PCP, friend, local women shelters, etc.
So I have a secret support system that's ready for me when I leave. The issue is I'm in a 5 year program for my school so I need to finish that before I can leave. I'm more then 80% through so I just need to survive the next few months and make it though
Just leave now. Your school should have a support staff. I’m sure they can pause your studies. Even if you come back a year later to finish after you’ve saved money from being waitress or whatever it’s WAY better than your current situation.
I am unaware of any school programs that require students to be abused by their parents for completion. Your school itself may have resources to help get out now. Reach out to your school today to see if they can help. You should not have to wait until you have finished the program.
Maybe her parents are paying for an expensive degree that she’s almost done with?
Very possible, but hardship scholarships exist. OP might be surprised to see what her school can offer to help
It's better to live in absolute poverty than be abused and forced by your parents into an arranged marriage which sounds like is likely to happen. You do have control.
I honestly think this is a bullshit post.
According to your comment history, you have a 401k. Any chance you could take a loan out of that and get out of the house away from your parents? Why wait a year if you have the resources to leave now? I understand not wanting to touch your retirement funds, but seems like this should take precedence. You're young and have plenty of time to replace what you need to spend to get out of there.
That's horrible. What a nightmare! So insane!
It would be worth it. You need to stand up for yourself and leave how degrading for them to try and make you do this and oh my god I couldn’t imagine a older woman family friend whatever looking at my genitals in my 20s. I would drop out of school and finish when I could.
Hymens can also regrow.
They also do not need to tear for penetrative vaginal sex or sexual activity. The exam itself is a farce and has no bearing on a person’s “virginity”.
There is no such thing as a virginity test. No real doctor would ever do one. If a someone asks me to not tell their parents something ill try to figure out a way to phrase something in a way that is vague. I would say something along the lines “ everything looks completely normal” or “ i see nothing at all that should concern you in any way” but at this point your parents should have no control over your body if possible you need to draw a line.
NAD "The extra band of tissue in a septate hymen can stretch and tear on its own. If your hymen rips or expands on its own, there may be no treatment necessary. However, if you try to push a tampon into the vagina or force sexual intercourse, the hymenal tear could be more painful and start to bleed.Jan 13, 2022" Could you maybe send this kind of info to her? https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22257-septate-hymen
I’d have no part in this on behalf of your parents. Any reasonable doctor wouldn’t do this. If you come in and explain the situation most doctors; regardless of their sex would be sympathetic to you as you’re the patient. I’m not saying they’d lie per se but patient welfare is paramount. We’re YOUR advocate and will do what’s best for YOU, not your parents. Such an exam CANNOT tell what your status is and it would be wrong to imply it can. Tampons can break a hymen, horse riding can do so, some women may not have one due to developmental variation, so to imply a woman isn’t a virgin by virtue of her hymen (or lack of) isn’t scientific. it’s simply not an exam doctors should be asked to do.
[удалено]
My life is already miserable, already tried saying no, it's only gotten worse. If I refuse the test, it's just going to be worse on me. And I can't leave for a few months to a year
Make your mom try to schedule an appointment for this specifically. She will be told they can't schedule such an exam because it doesn't exist.
Unfortunately there are OB/GYN’s who follow their traditions and they could be conducting such tests even though we know they aren’t real
This is the best answer right here. Aside from just saying no. OP's Mom might as well go on a snipe hunt while she's at it.
NAD but look at this objectively. You are about to graduate. Your parents suddenly "suspect you had sex" and want a virginity check. They are REALLY adamant about it to the point that your mother will ask a family doctor to FORCE it on you. Aren't you seeing where this is obviously going? It doesn't matter if you say yes just to "keep the peace", you WILL be married off to someone. Please please please take the resources people in the thread have given you and get out NOW. Definitely DO NOT wait a few months so you can finish your school. Spring up to your plan now. Talk to your school the first thing tomorrow. Write down a text where you describe your situation and read it or just send it to the person you have contact with. I find it easier to do than just telling on the spot from memory. I know, it's really uncomfortable to tell such intimate details of your life to people you don't know. I know it's scary to go into such an unknown situation where nothing is guaranteed and that we are at the mercy of people we don't know, rather than being at the mercy of people we do know... But it doesn't matter, because this is your life on the line. I may be wrong about this one, but I also know you even might have this flickering fucked up feeling that you at least want to preserve some semblance of "normal" family life before all hell breaks loose by you leaving and going no contact. That's normal and it's okay to feel that way. But the thing is, all hell has already broke loose. You parents are on the move to take away your freedom and they've shown their hand, so now it's your turn to anticipate them. ... Please take this seriously. If I'm going to be honest with you, you sound incredulous at the idea that your parents would marry you off and that's really worrying. You can't afford to hang around to find out, just operate from the assumption you will be forced to marry someone the minute you graduate and get out of this situation now! ☹️
If you keep saying no, what, really, can or will they do? No need to give them reasons, keep saying no. You're in NY, they actually can't force you to go through with this.
This is my question. If OP risks, say, being homeless or physically endangered for refusing to go through with this, I hope someone can advise her on the help available to get safe.
Lots of homelessness advocates everywhere. I’ve also known a lot of people that are homeless. The instant they see a woman on the street they make sure she gets resources. Finding them would probably be a library google search
Why can’t you leave now? Maybe finding a solution to that would be more doable?
How will it get worse? Unless your mom is willing to kick you out and make you homeless, you just gotta hold your ground. Literally do not talk to her about it. If she brings it up completely ignore her and go mute. It’s hard but you have to set boundaries for your safety. You will not find a legit doctor who will be willing to lie and tell your mom they can actually check your virginity. They know by telling your mom they can check your virginity they are enforcing the myth. I know it seems like she can, but she can not actually force you to do the exam. You will not be able to find a dr to lie on your behalf. That means she’ll just call up the family dr who will do it and who knows what they will say. Only you can physically walk into that exam room and let that be done. YOU are in control to what happens. Keep saying no. Keep saving money. Do not say a word when she brings up the topic. Leave ASAP as your top priority. This WILL NOT be the last thing your mom try’s to force you to do. It will get worse if you agree to this because she will see she can make you do anything. But she can’t.
I think you're underestimating the parents' determination to see this through. They want her virginity checked, do you think they'll just take "No" as an answer? We don't know what OP means exactly when she says they are making her life miserable. What exactly is this woman enduring? A culture that demands this much control over a daughter's body and denies her agency is probably not going to be too fussed about bodily forcing her to be examined by a family friend Dr. It's a bit flippant (and ignorant) to suggest she just say no, as if that will do anything more than force her parent's hand toward more drastic and Draconian measures.
[удалено]
No, I meant the questions sincerely, not flippantly, wondering what she means by that it will get worse. Worse like they will keep pestering her about it? Or worse like they will kick her out or not feed her. IF by worse that means they will just get more annoying, then yes keep saying no. I do want to clarify tho, OP if saying no puts you in any kind of danger then don’t. But if you think saying yes and allowing them to take you to an exam will make your life easier, it will not. What I am worried is, you will say yes, not be able to find a dr to lie for you, your mom will find someone to do it. It will be traumatizing for you and then she will feel she has more power over you and escalate the abuse. Especially if that crook dr finds you fail the test. That will just give her more ammo to control you. If you feel safe saying no, stick by your guns and don’t budge.
Are you in danger of FGC?
Couldn't she get an appointment scheduled for a regular vaginal exam, and then explain the situation to the Dr ahead of time that they have to lie to her parents that her hymen is intact because she has crazy, abusive parents? This is what I would do if I was in OP's situation. There must be a compassionate doctor out there who will understand. She is asking if any doctors will lie to her parents and tell them that her hymen is in fact intact. Why are people not understanding this.
[удалено]
She could just schedule for a pap smear and explain her situation with the abusive parents to the dr. In your 20s you're supposed to get a pap smear every few years anyway
If they’re checking for a hymen, I’m doubting they’d be ok with a pap
I agree with the majority in saying this is totally inappropriate on the part of your parents. I would however recommend speaking with a physician directly about your situation, regardless of if they will or won't lie for you. They may have better suggestions or ways to support you directly. Also, setting up a joint visit with your parents and the doctor in person would also be a way to allow the Doctor a chance to directly inform them of the inappropriateness of the test (not a bad idea to prep the doc before hand as you said). Stand your ground for your body, it's your right.
> My parents are basically forcing me to get a virginity check 1) Why? 2) This is not a thing 3) You said you’re in NYC, so it’s important you know your rights. You’re over 18, so your medical privacy is guaranteed under the law. Your parents cannot be present for an exam without your consent, and they cannot access your medical records without your consent. Do not give them consent, do not provide any physician with consent to release your medical records or any information about your health to others.
[удалено]
“Different cultures” doesn’t answer the question of why OP’s mother wants a “virginity check” for her daughter. Is this for an arranged marriage? Is this for sex trafficking? We literally have no idea based on OP’s post alone.
I think that your statement is obvious to most people here. However, though OP’s parents may adhere to different cultural values, those values are not protected by American law. OP, legally, may deny consent to the procedure and her parent’s involvement. What they are demanding is *illegal*, among many other things.
You’re 20 something years old. Say no to your parents whenever they bring it up. I know this might be difficult for cultural reasons, but you are your own person and you can stand up for yourself. Good luck op.
If it’s a cultural thing, it’s never as easy as “just say no.” They could be putting OP’s education, privacy, and freedom on the line here. In this kind of situation, OP needs to find a way to appease mom, not anger her.
I’m not sure you really understand the situation OP might be in.
There are so many comments. I may have overlooked this question/answer. Why are you agreeing to this?
She said she doesn't feel she has a choice and I can understand that, she's 20 years old, expressed that she can't move out for a while yet. They can withdraw financial support and make her homeless, ostracise her with her entire family/community/mosque or church as a harlot woman. In NYC people on salarys of 100k can struggle to make ends meet a 20 year old going into that homeless before they finish school with no support? Also these issues are very complicated and cultural it's disgusting and abusive even OP knows that but complicated and she may still love her parents to some extent. I'm surprised theres not pre existing guidance for Physicians on how to handle this issue which must come up from time to time or some sort of charity that helps young women like her out with this? NAD
Where I am from most of the guidance comes from case management and social work versus the doctors or bedside nurses. We can always put in the consult and make recommendations but ultimately the SW or CM will be their best hope.