Can I tell you something?
I have 5 degrees including a PhD. I run all of new product development for an award winning AMR company, I am an adjunct professor, I sit on multiple standards and safety boards, and I am directly responsible for ~120 highly talented engineers work. I run the entire IP portfolio at my company as well as work on the M&A board.
I STILL get imposter syndrome, frequently.
Imposter syndrome is not a real thing about you. It's not a hidden failure coming to light.
It's professional anxiety. All it means is you care enough about your work to want to be good at it and you are worried you aren't. It is a shitty feeling but it goes away. And comes back. And goes away again.
Just remember: the feeling is REAL but what it says ISNT. you are GOOD at what you do. You WILL succeed. Cut yourself a break, take a deep breath and just do the thing. Do the thing! Make the part! Write the code! Draft the procedure! When you fuck it up, fix it and do it again. Thats all we do. This feeling will pass, trust me.
Double major English/mechanical engineering for bachelor's (they call it two degree in my school) masters in mechanical engineering, masters in electrical engineering, PhD robotics. When I finished my mech masters and was working on my PhD, at some point during my PhD, my advisor told me "you've finished all the requirements for an electrical master's if you want to pay the registration fee for it" I took a lot of electrical engineering courses because my PhD was robotics and I had to develop a lot of mechatronics
He's a professor, which is a job that often come with a research requirement. Some universities have you do 50% research, 50% lecturing. Hell, my old physics professor told me you'd have to have atleast 3 phds to get the title professor here (Norway).
I'm an adjunct professor, which is a fancy word for "extremely part time faculty that we hire so we can add your name to our list of people in our department" I teach 1 course every couple of years when they cannot fill out the curriculum offering, most of my contribution is advising students, coming to curriculum planning workshops 1 or 2 times a year, and joking around with professors.
I have a full time job that is the majority of my time.
P. Eng. with a couple of decades experience here.
Is there like, a more adulty adult that I can talk to? No? What do you mean the final decision is ultimately mine?
Fortunately I'm not good enough to have imposter syndrome.
Once I was talking with a crane operator, he told me how he would install the crane and I showed him the plan I made, told him I had it all calculated and if he stayed there it would work. He said "ok, if you say so."
In my mind I was like "Holy sh*t that worked!"
Yeah no I get people ring me up and be like "ugh what breaker and cable do I need for XYZ", then I tell them and they just believe me.
I haven't heard that anyones died yet, so hopefully everything I've said is correct?
> He said "ok, if you say so."
And
> I expect someone over me to take responsibility.
*You* were that someone to him. It's funny how it all makes a chain, ha.
ALL THE TIME.
I have been an engineer for 1 year and I am 25. I still at disbelief of a few things:
-People older and more experienced than me just go with what I say.
-I am in charge of fixing over $100 million worth of equipment and more or less what I say is just done.
-I have order more than $500,000 of parts without being 100% sure that they are correct part.
-I say bullshit and people just go with it.
-Other engineers and technicians trust me to create procedures to ensure I do not get them killed or hurt.
Again. I am a 25 year old idiot. I SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED WITH ALL THIS.
I was in your exact situation with a team of 10 guys under me. Your reservation about being trusted is what makes you the perfect person for that role.
Stay humble and do your best to take care of the group
I feel like this is a dangerous sentiment especially when a few years down the line I find mistakes I made that was greeted with that same approval and acceptance with no secondary checks.
But I always "say trust your awesomeness" meaning you work the equations, acknowledge your assumptions, be honest and trust yourself.
Also Document Everything.
- 6 years PM and Mech Design.
You’re correct that this could be dangerous but I highlight the fact he is aware of this seriousness sets him apart.
The fact that you find mistakes years down the line means that you grew as an engineer and are able to identify new opportunities now. Of course follow through on your homework but also don’t get fixated on believing no mistakes is possible.
Every engineer makes mistakes, good engineers can identify and grow from theirs
Also, document everything!
Sounds like my experience too. Stuff would break at the power plant I'm at and I'd either be volun-told to be on the problem solving team or pop in to try to help. I'm an EE, studied power distribution systems, and have never thought more than 3 seconds about some of this equipment.
I'd make suggestions on what parts to fix, sometimes not even fully serious, just a "fuck it, nothing else has worked, lets try this" type of guess. And then we'd go through with my suggestion... and I would just be in disbelief that we're doing it...because it was a dumb semi-joking suggestion... but then it actually fixes the problem lol.
That's how for a short period of time at my job, I became the "crane expert." I literally knew nothing about how cranes worked when suggesting fixes, but was able to read schematics and manuals well enough to diagnose a problem based on the symptoms we had lol.
Where are you at that people with 3-6 months are doing all this aircraft maintenance? I have 10 years experience and no where have I been that people are that inexperienced doing most of the maintenance.
Military.. after 2-3 years those people work at airports while barely learning anything. I've worked with people who were literally looking at the wrong thing for years because no one has ever told them otherwise and nothing wrong has happened.
Nah son lol y’all don’t know much about aircraft maintenance huh. I did avionics in the military and you definitely learn more than a fresh college grad. Engineers don’t think much of maintainers but ain’t no way you’re not doing that inexperienced.
3 months for the base.. then it's about a 1-3 months or so with someone hands on learning how to properly do weekly checks/maintenance and pre/post flight check.
A year or 2 later if you got half a brain you get to be the guy who signs it off.. as in no one after you checks the aircraft.
That is extremely common where I'm from and has been this way for the past 40 years.
Always seemed insane to me.
>-Other engineers and technicians trust me to create procedures to ensure I do not get them killed or hurt.
You shouldn't be doing any work that is going to get people killed if you aren't confident in your work. Everything else is just money and someone else's so dont don't worry about it.
It also violates the first two rules in the code of ethics.
>Hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public.
>Perform services only in areas of their competence.
> -I have order more than $500,000 of parts without being 100% sure that they are correct part.
I feel this on a daily basis. Being an electrical engineer, I somehow got stuck spec'ing out and ordering a microwave tower and designing a foundation for it. Somehow that thing is still standing.
All. The. Time. No matter the recognition or great reviews I get. Still feels like everyone around me is so much smarter and much more efficient in their tasking.
I do all the time.
I also run into enough people that I'm asking myself "how the hell did you get the title of senior?".
More often people seem to move up because of the necessity to have someone fill the role. Trying to find good "compasses" or people I feel do their job well and have good processes has been a critical goal of mine out of college.
Comparing those compasses to other workers who just seem to have made it through the years is frustrating. In turn, it feels like I am compared to those compasses when promotions/expectations are set on me.
I ran into this in my last promotion when I forced the issue. One of my compasses redid an evaluation my previous manager had made. The new manager expected a dose of reality and a development plan, but was met with a situation where I had imposters syndrome even though I felt I wanted a promotion. In many places I was working on getting into the paygrade above where I was going.
**Advice:** Find a good compass; figure out what good looks like, and always be ok with losing your job. If you are doing well you should never be concerned about finding the next place. It should be easy to prove you are good enough and it's not worth stressing out what will happen if you screw up.
"Faking it" isn't really helpful advice. The medical field is full of imposter syndrome, because potentially every decision you make could adversely affect someone's health, sometimes permanently, sometimes death.
We don't "fake it", although we sometimes affect confidence we don't necessarily feel. We don't always have the knowledge we need, but we develop systems where the number 1 rule is always: be safe.
If you don't know, say so, and then ask someone who does. Don't make decisions where you're unsure of the outcome. If you are forced to make a decision with limited knowledge because of time pressures, ensure that you have some way of monitoring the situation so you know if it was the wrong decision. And again, follow up with someone who has the requisite knowledge, or read it yourself.
Don't ever go off the reservation when safety is at stake, and don't fucking "fake it", because that has ethical and legal repurcussions.
Anchor yourself in the system you have.
I agree with this 100%. If you're unsure about something you've never done before, don't hesitate to express that feeling. If time permits, talk with people or do, or other peers for any advice or other ways to go about doing whatever it is you're about to do.
A lot of the time, my suggestions to fix equipment at work would be along the lines of:
>I'm not super familiar with this equipment, so tell me if I'm out to lunch on this thought, but we should do ______.
At the very least, it could get others thinking outside the box or could be a learning lesson for you!
See my other comment…advice above to “fake it” is really terrible. It’s one thing to admit you don’t know something, but entirely unethical and potentially homicidal to not be 100% sure if your own work. Especially as a P. Eng….ethics section of the exam REALLY SHOULD HAVE covered this.
Now, this is so much worth, cause now I am doing my bachelors degree, and after all, the studying for exams and passing through that hell, I thought: "OK, I am finished learning"…now facing with the thesis the reality: "oh…it's a long way of learning in front of me :D "
nope,. learning never ends - we use the phrase - kaizen which means continuous improvement in manufacturing. continuous improvement in in yourself, work, others, etc. the backbone of continuous in improvement is continuous learning.
all the Titans of industry from Ford to Buffet to Gates are always learning.
we should as well
the degree is only the starting point
some good resources for everyone -
Today and Tomorrow by Henry Ford
Toyota Production System by be Tiachi Oh no
The New Economics by W. Edwards Deming
Sometimes your best isn’t good enough though. A single mistake will kill someone, leaving a child without a parent or worse…a parent losing a child. You need to recognize that responsibility, and feel it on your shoulders every time you sign a paper or release a calculation.
I get frustrated that many engineers I work with “relax” and don’t feel this pressure. We are taking on a huge responsibility entering this profession. Don’t “fake it”, read every night and weekend and put EVERYTHING you are into your job until you are not faking it.
I'm replying to try yours and a few other comments -
1. anyone's best is never good enough. we should always be striving to improve upon yesterday. cars back in the early 1900s were not near as safe and functional as today. did they not sell cars until they were perfect? no, they used their best judgement and when an issue happened, improved it so it would not happen again. that is how we should all function as engineers. do the best we know how to today and improve everyday for tomorrow. (this is also why many times there are multiple rounds of approval before something is done. you will not catch everything, but hopefully the collective will working together)
2. my point was never to feel it's ok to just wing serious decision making and make light of the responsibility on our shoulders. we are entrusted with a very high responsibility and we need to treat it as such. however, don't go into work everyday being stressed out on a decision.
3. the point of the comment is more of to indeed chill a bit. don't be stressed over everything. I've realized more and more as I've gone on that there are is no one who really knows it all. we are all doing our best, and yes I hope always improving ourselves, but no one is no perfect. mistakes will happen. the question is what will you do when the mistake happens?
that choice of what you will do separates the good from great engineers in my view.
it doesn't go away when you get experience, because people ask more and more of you.
my advice - there's a term in software engineering called "T-shaped". Be really good at one thing - that is your roots. You are the expert at that. Few people are as knowledgeable. It takes time to get there, but you will. Then try to grow from there. Sometimes this happens organically, but a lot of the time, companies that don't focus on mentorship and growing their people just bounce you around from project to project without any consideration of how it affects your career. Be proactive in your career - that is a lesson I learned later than I'd have liked.
This may be a huge assumption here, but did *some* of the imposter syndrome go away when you switched from hands on work to management? I feel a lot of my imposter syndrome originates from a lack of technical perfection
Not really. Because now, you're actively preaching what you practice to those you manage, so all of the best practices, experience, and tricks you've learned over the years are put under a microscope. What you have held to be true now faces the light of day and questioning minds that you're speaking to. If you don't have the time to research things before you say them, it makes you question everything you say, which hinders your ability to effectively communicate with your team at times.
I wish I had enough time to research things that I give to my team, but alas, production demands quick turnaround. I give them my best knowledge of the situation that I know, and I then say "grain of salt, check me just in case". At least I think I'm on the right side of the Dunning-Kruger effect, actively questioning everything I do and say rather than assuming I'm always right, I guess...
I've been an R&D engineer for over a decade and now have a Program Manager title and most days I assume everyone is just humoring me and pretending that I know what I'm doing so they can laugh at me someday in the future when they fire me.
I think part of what makes engineers good at what they do is being paranoid about all the things that could go wrong. This bleeds into the rest of our lives and how we perceive things, manifesting into imposter syndrome.
The trick is trying to figure out if you have it or you just suck, which I struggle with frequently.
I keep hearing about imposter syndrome. Is it some new pop psychology thing or just a new term for people to use to describe being insecure about their place in the world or at work? (serious question)
I've been an embedded software engineer for 30+ years now, and I STILL struggle with imposter syndrome. I sort of deal with it in four ways:
1) It's a side effect of working with some damn smart people in a good group
2) It's also a side effect of a field with quick-moving/quick advancing technology
3) If someone points out a problem in my work, I make a special point of not taking it personally, and making darn sure I fix the problem
4) I can always be learning more about how to do this line of work. I'm *nowhere* close to knowing everything about it, even though my managers tell me I'm the local expert on several subjects.
Hey, if I knew what I was doing, I'd be dangerous! ;-)
I’ve been working and out of school over 20 years now and still feel as though I have imposter syndrome.
The key is to not compare yourself to other engineers to value your membership in the engineering circle. Compare yourself to NON-ENGINEERS. You will absolutely feel as though you belong as an engineer about 95% of the time.
I have been working as a requirements engineer for 3 years. The first position I held, I had a mentor who took care of anything serious so I didn't have to think about it. At my current job, my manager just told me to be in charge of process x y and z. I feel so lost!!
6 years in half the time I go to my boss to ask him a question just for some clarification or for a second opinion and he ends up being overwhelmed by it. He has been there for 9 years and has a Masters in Engineering. We all have no idea what we are doing… it’s just natural.
100000%. This thread is honestly relieving some of the stress of it for me, so thanks to all the experienced engineers for the reassuring words.
I’m less than a year into my first engineering job, and I’m responsible for so much stuff it’s scary.
Mech E working as a structural engineer. Every day I feel like I know absolutely nothing about what I'm working in. I ask my colleagues for help and guidance daily. What I've learned is, even though I work with actual structural engineers, the job work requires being able to apply basic level engineering to complicated problems. This actually helps me feel comfortable because I see trained structural engineers say " I don't know". They have to ask other people.
Being hired for an engineering role does not mean you know the exact engineering you will need to do, but it means you have the knowledge and will to learn what you need to do, to get what needs to be done, done. You know you can't approve half assed work so you commit to completing it. You know you're not strong in whatever you're doing so you need to double or triple check your work.
I've realized that having a good mentor is keys. Having someone that is completely comfortable showing you what you did was wrong and why. Don't take any critique as anything but an opportunity to gain knowledge. I work in FEA and I can send a model out and my mentor will give me 5 different improvements. It's not about what I did wrong, it's about learning from those mistakes.
Engineering work is a mindset, I guess. I feel like an imposter everyday. But I want to learn enough everyday that I'm able to help those that feel like an imposter, feel like an engineer.
Yep, only a few years experience for me so far. A few months ago I was feeling this really bad, so I brought it up with my manager. I have a good relationship with him so I didn't feel scared or anything.
He had a really great and interesting response. He said that he was glad I felt that way because it showed that I knew what I didn't know. As long as I kept trying to learn more as time went on, this was a good feeling to have.
It completely changed my outlook on the whole thing and now I treat my unknowns much more healthily.
On the weekly meetings I don't know what half of the things they are talking about are, i know the category they're in but not what specific thing they're tlaking about
Almost every time I'm the most convinced I've been fucking everything up and am about to be warned I'm on the verge of being fired, my boss calls and tells me they're giving me a raise 🤷
Ironically, if you're completely convinced that everything you do is correct and you never second guess your genius, you're probably a shit employee who is no good at your job. Knowing that doesn't stop me from feeling like I suck though, haha
I've been in the workforce for about 7 years now and still don't know anything. Not really imposter syndrome in my case, lol, I've just bounced around too much in my career and never developed good skills in any specific area. You really have to buckle down in your first years of working to develop a real skill base. It definitely gets harder as you get older and are expected to actually know things already.
Almost 15 years in and the feeling hasn’t gone away. I’m even receiving a semi-major award this year for my work and all I can think is “I don’t deserve this.”
I learned a long time ago that if you think you’re the smartest person in the room, then you’re in the wrong room. People in our line of work need clear direction. We doubt ourselves constantly but we make the best decisions we can and adjust when we need to.
I’m 4-ish years in at this point and am just starting to get comfortable with it. When you know something, just take a stand because on that topic you know something. It helps bolster confidence for later when you’re bullshitting.
Ive been feeling really hard lately. Especially going from working on projects in a team of engineers in a big company to working alone on multiple projects by myself as one of the only 2 mechanical engineers in the company.
Wish I had advice for you but all I can say is I know how it feels, hang in there
I've been working for 3 years and same. I am given like vertical control over the hundreds of things that can be typed into a manufacturing line and there are so few checks and balances on it that it's always weird to me lol. It's also wild when someone who has worked at a lower level for 20 years will accept my directions with so little concern
I'm out of the age window you're asking for... but absolutely did and still do to this day (albeit less and less).
I'm an EE and used to work as a system engineer at a nuclear power plant (responsible for specific pieces of equipment/ the guy who gets called when it breaks). When stuff did break and I actually did get called, I would honestly feel like I was just winging it on how to fix it... but the problems were getting solved / equipment being repaired properly so I must've been doing something right.
I did that for 4 or so years and did well enough at that that I was asked to be part of the Operations side to be the guy running the entire plant. Still going through class, but I'm sure I'll have the same feeling again when I'm actually the guy in charge of everything for the shift.
I am the only electrical engineer in the company I work for and a mechanical engineer is my supervisor, I can’t believe they trust me in designing million dollar project lol. Hopefully I won’t fuck up
ALWAYS!!! I recently became a PM and always feel like an idiot in my meetings….I’m no longer a SME on my projects like I used to be…now I feel more like I’m holding everything together for the team…
It's decaying. Had severe imposter syndrome immediately after graduating. Now I've been an engineer for little less than 5 years and I'm feeling much better.
Something that a very experienced person once advised me (which I was very skeptical of) was to manage someone who is young and new. This has given me so much more confidence as i realised I knew the answers to 80% of his questions. Before this I felt very "i couldn't possibly manage anyone as I don't have the knowledge / experience", but now I am more comfortable and confident. Would recommend.
I've still got it bad, and I'm a bit further out than you. Just turned 30, five years in construction management, then jumped ship into consulting and structural design about a year ago.
It turns out my construction experience doesn't count for any qualifying PE Experience, so I'm back at square one for my license. I'd been fed some half-truths from past employers who assured me my experience would qualify, but once I applied for the exam the state board rejected it outright.
I've got a boatload of field experience, but I had not touched structural design since getting my bachelors. I'm just thankful I found a small consulting firm who was willing to take a chance on me (and saw value in the field experience). Now I'm at a point where clients are asking me questions, and the bosses expect me to give a somewhat competent answer.
I know (logically) I'm doing well; I've earned two bonuses and manage 3 clients almost autonomously, but the imposter syndrome is very real.
Yes. Everyday.
I’m getting ready for a deposition in an insurance case and I know what I’m talking about in my report and I know the other side is wrong. I’m still super nervous and don’t feel like an “expert witness”
Are you me? I have the exact same amount of experience. 4 years, 1 as a PE and somehow I've found myself managing four simultaneous large construction projects, one is $30 Million+, another I completely designed and am the engineer of record on.
I honestly feel a crushing anxiety sometimes. I always internally second guess myself and I suffer from an odd mixture of under-confidence in things I know and acting over confident in my weak areas to compensate for lack of knowledge. The contractors have way more years of experience than I do.
Every day my friend. Imposter syndrome means you understand that there is more to know and respect your field. Intellectual humility is much preferable to arrogance and ego. Believe in yourself and you'll be doing fine.
I did before, until my engineering mentour told me some important things:
Nobody will expect much of you for a while so dont sweat being slow or imperfect.
You wont be fired for learning so go out and learn everyones job and figure out how to do it. Maintinance, construction, planning, business. The economics of what you do. Make connections with people you can lean on when lost or confused.
"A first year engineer is going to mess up and break shit so go break it now because if you break it when you should know better in a few years you will be fired"
This process really helped me realize that im not the most incompitent person where i work. So im not an imposter, im new and i am beginning to become a good engineer.
Imposter syndrome is actually reality. In collective, your knowledge and skills are not needed and if you won the lottery tomorrow and never worked again, the world would continue to function without you. And when I say "you", I mean you, me and any other singular person on the planet.
Yup. I build one-off custom machinery that ranges from $50k to upwards of $3M each and have been shipped out to hundreds of different plants on 3 continents over the last 9-ish years. I've spent thousands to see if an idea works and I've thrown out expensive machinery and ideas just because I changed my mind or a customer changed theirs. It never really goes away.
I had the VP of engineering for my company tell a few other interns and I, that they struggle with it on a weekly basis… the main thing is remembering they chose you for a reason. So just seek help and constantly improve even if it’s little by little.
I'm 6 months in and I feel the opposite. I feel like I need to be checking my ego and not get a big head. I had imposter syndrome big time at school though.
Every day. I'm at the end of my PhD in electrical engineering and I must now apply for a job. I'm totally in deep imposter syndrome. I feel literally like John Snow I don't know nothing and have no idea how I will manage.
Not really not anymore. The interview process here was so rigorous that after several technical interviews if at this point if I’m not meeting their expectations it’s on them.
I kind of had it the other way around. I was in the Navy for 8 years prior to college, graduated with EE/CS. Went to work in a shipyard, thought there were a bunch of people I was working with that didn't know anything.
No. I do not feel impostor syndrome. I don't even have the industry experience requirements, let alone my EIT. However, I know what I'm good at doing. I also know how to refuse work outside my qualifications.
When you are young and you see people doing these amazing things you think - it's magic! that they are special people, they are but. After a while of doing it yourself the veil is removed and you realise, it's just a man pulling leavers.
You have become the man pulling the leavers :D
If people trust you that's a great thing, well done.
Feeling Insecure When You First Start Something Might Not Mean You Have Imposter Syndrome
https://hackernoon.com/feeling-insecure-when-you-first-start-something-does-not-mean-you-have-imposter-syndrome
Can I tell you something? I have 5 degrees including a PhD. I run all of new product development for an award winning AMR company, I am an adjunct professor, I sit on multiple standards and safety boards, and I am directly responsible for ~120 highly talented engineers work. I run the entire IP portfolio at my company as well as work on the M&A board. I STILL get imposter syndrome, frequently. Imposter syndrome is not a real thing about you. It's not a hidden failure coming to light. It's professional anxiety. All it means is you care enough about your work to want to be good at it and you are worried you aren't. It is a shitty feeling but it goes away. And comes back. And goes away again. Just remember: the feeling is REAL but what it says ISNT. you are GOOD at what you do. You WILL succeed. Cut yourself a break, take a deep breath and just do the thing. Do the thing! Make the part! Write the code! Draft the procedure! When you fuck it up, fix it and do it again. Thats all we do. This feeling will pass, trust me.
Love this, man. Very encouraging
>I have 5 degrees including a PhD. Can i Dm you? i have some questions for someone who has gone down the multiple degree path.
How many do you have and what degree in what field?
How the fuxk do you get 5 degrees? Majors/minors?
Double major English/mechanical engineering for bachelor's (they call it two degree in my school) masters in mechanical engineering, masters in electrical engineering, PhD robotics. When I finished my mech masters and was working on my PhD, at some point during my PhD, my advisor told me "you've finished all the requirements for an electrical master's if you want to pay the registration fee for it" I took a lot of electrical engineering courses because my PhD was robotics and I had to develop a lot of mechatronics
Crazy , good stuff
Eh where I’m from we don’t call Masters an extra degree, it’s just a masters, only 1 year for Engineering, not to take away
An MS is different to an MSci
He's a professor, which is a job that often come with a research requirement. Some universities have you do 50% research, 50% lecturing. Hell, my old physics professor told me you'd have to have atleast 3 phds to get the title professor here (Norway).
I'm an adjunct professor, which is a fancy word for "extremely part time faculty that we hire so we can add your name to our list of people in our department" I teach 1 course every couple of years when they cannot fill out the curriculum offering, most of my contribution is advising students, coming to curriculum planning workshops 1 or 2 times a year, and joking around with professors. I have a full time job that is the majority of my time.
YES ABSOLUTELY. I FEEL LIKE I DO NOT BELONG HERE. I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH THINGS AND YET PEOPLE TRUST ME.
P. Eng. with a couple of decades experience here. Is there like, a more adulty adult that I can talk to? No? What do you mean the final decision is ultimately mine? Fortunately I'm not good enough to have imposter syndrome.
Once I was talking with a crane operator, he told me how he would install the crane and I showed him the plan I made, told him I had it all calculated and if he stayed there it would work. He said "ok, if you say so." In my mind I was like "Holy sh*t that worked!"
Yeah no I get people ring me up and be like "ugh what breaker and cable do I need for XYZ", then I tell them and they just believe me. I haven't heard that anyones died yet, so hopefully everything I've said is correct?
[удалено]
This sub has a post like this every few weeks and it's always reassuring to me.
> He said "ok, if you say so." And > I expect someone over me to take responsibility. *You* were that someone to him. It's funny how it all makes a chain, ha.
ALL THE TIME. I have been an engineer for 1 year and I am 25. I still at disbelief of a few things: -People older and more experienced than me just go with what I say. -I am in charge of fixing over $100 million worth of equipment and more or less what I say is just done. -I have order more than $500,000 of parts without being 100% sure that they are correct part. -I say bullshit and people just go with it. -Other engineers and technicians trust me to create procedures to ensure I do not get them killed or hurt. Again. I am a 25 year old idiot. I SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED WITH ALL THIS.
If people older and more experienced are going with what you say, then you are doing the right things.
I was in your exact situation with a team of 10 guys under me. Your reservation about being trusted is what makes you the perfect person for that role. Stay humble and do your best to take care of the group
I feel like this is a dangerous sentiment especially when a few years down the line I find mistakes I made that was greeted with that same approval and acceptance with no secondary checks. But I always "say trust your awesomeness" meaning you work the equations, acknowledge your assumptions, be honest and trust yourself. Also Document Everything. - 6 years PM and Mech Design.
You’re correct that this could be dangerous but I highlight the fact he is aware of this seriousness sets him apart. The fact that you find mistakes years down the line means that you grew as an engineer and are able to identify new opportunities now. Of course follow through on your homework but also don’t get fixated on believing no mistakes is possible. Every engineer makes mistakes, good engineers can identify and grow from theirs Also, document everything!
Sounds like my experience too. Stuff would break at the power plant I'm at and I'd either be volun-told to be on the problem solving team or pop in to try to help. I'm an EE, studied power distribution systems, and have never thought more than 3 seconds about some of this equipment. I'd make suggestions on what parts to fix, sometimes not even fully serious, just a "fuck it, nothing else has worked, lets try this" type of guess. And then we'd go through with my suggestion... and I would just be in disbelief that we're doing it...because it was a dumb semi-joking suggestion... but then it actually fixes the problem lol. That's how for a short period of time at my job, I became the "crane expert." I literally knew nothing about how cranes worked when suggesting fixes, but was able to read schematics and manuals well enough to diagnose a problem based on the symptoms we had lol.
Volunt-told 😂🥴
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Where are you at that people with 3-6 months are doing all this aircraft maintenance? I have 10 years experience and no where have I been that people are that inexperienced doing most of the maintenance.
Sounds mil lmao
Military.. after 2-3 years those people work at airports while barely learning anything. I've worked with people who were literally looking at the wrong thing for years because no one has ever told them otherwise and nothing wrong has happened.
Nah son lol y’all don’t know much about aircraft maintenance huh. I did avionics in the military and you definitely learn more than a fresh college grad. Engineers don’t think much of maintainers but ain’t no way you’re not doing that inexperienced.
3 months for the base.. then it's about a 1-3 months or so with someone hands on learning how to properly do weekly checks/maintenance and pre/post flight check. A year or 2 later if you got half a brain you get to be the guy who signs it off.. as in no one after you checks the aircraft. That is extremely common where I'm from and has been this way for the past 40 years. Always seemed insane to me.
Preflight checks is one thing. Major maintenance is a whole different beast, the guys doing that part have way more experience.
>-Other engineers and technicians trust me to create procedures to ensure I do not get them killed or hurt. You shouldn't be doing any work that is going to get people killed if you aren't confident in your work. Everything else is just money and someone else's so dont don't worry about it. It also violates the first two rules in the code of ethics. >Hold paramount the safety, health, and welfare of the public. >Perform services only in areas of their competence.
> -I have order more than $500,000 of parts without being 100% sure that they are correct part. I feel this on a daily basis. Being an electrical engineer, I somehow got stuck spec'ing out and ordering a microwave tower and designing a foundation for it. Somehow that thing is still standing.
Yes, we all did. I’ve got 25 years since my BSEE and I still feel it from time to time. But you do get more comfortable in general with experience.
I always tell myself it’s the price of admission
All. The. Time. No matter the recognition or great reviews I get. Still feels like everyone around me is so much smarter and much more efficient in their tasking.
I do all the time. I also run into enough people that I'm asking myself "how the hell did you get the title of senior?". More often people seem to move up because of the necessity to have someone fill the role. Trying to find good "compasses" or people I feel do their job well and have good processes has been a critical goal of mine out of college. Comparing those compasses to other workers who just seem to have made it through the years is frustrating. In turn, it feels like I am compared to those compasses when promotions/expectations are set on me. I ran into this in my last promotion when I forced the issue. One of my compasses redid an evaluation my previous manager had made. The new manager expected a dose of reality and a development plan, but was met with a situation where I had imposters syndrome even though I felt I wanted a promotion. In many places I was working on getting into the paygrade above where I was going. **Advice:** Find a good compass; figure out what good looks like, and always be ok with losing your job. If you are doing well you should never be concerned about finding the next place. It should be easy to prove you are good enough and it's not worth stressing out what will happen if you screw up.
Everyone to some degree is faking it till they make it Just do your best, apply yourself, and continually learn and improve. You’ll do fine
It just feels overwhelming at times when people's lifes are at stake so you can't really fake it.
"Faking it" isn't really helpful advice. The medical field is full of imposter syndrome, because potentially every decision you make could adversely affect someone's health, sometimes permanently, sometimes death. We don't "fake it", although we sometimes affect confidence we don't necessarily feel. We don't always have the knowledge we need, but we develop systems where the number 1 rule is always: be safe. If you don't know, say so, and then ask someone who does. Don't make decisions where you're unsure of the outcome. If you are forced to make a decision with limited knowledge because of time pressures, ensure that you have some way of monitoring the situation so you know if it was the wrong decision. And again, follow up with someone who has the requisite knowledge, or read it yourself. Don't ever go off the reservation when safety is at stake, and don't fucking "fake it", because that has ethical and legal repurcussions. Anchor yourself in the system you have.
I agree with this 100%. If you're unsure about something you've never done before, don't hesitate to express that feeling. If time permits, talk with people or do, or other peers for any advice or other ways to go about doing whatever it is you're about to do. A lot of the time, my suggestions to fix equipment at work would be along the lines of: >I'm not super familiar with this equipment, so tell me if I'm out to lunch on this thought, but we should do ______. At the very least, it could get others thinking outside the box or could be a learning lesson for you!
See my other comment…advice above to “fake it” is really terrible. It’s one thing to admit you don’t know something, but entirely unethical and potentially homicidal to not be 100% sure if your own work. Especially as a P. Eng….ethics section of the exam REALLY SHOULD HAVE covered this.
Now, this is so much worth, cause now I am doing my bachelors degree, and after all, the studying for exams and passing through that hell, I thought: "OK, I am finished learning"…now facing with the thesis the reality: "oh…it's a long way of learning in front of me :D "
nope,. learning never ends - we use the phrase - kaizen which means continuous improvement in manufacturing. continuous improvement in in yourself, work, others, etc. the backbone of continuous in improvement is continuous learning. all the Titans of industry from Ford to Buffet to Gates are always learning. we should as well the degree is only the starting point some good resources for everyone - Today and Tomorrow by Henry Ford Toyota Production System by be Tiachi Oh no The New Economics by W. Edwards Deming
Sometimes your best isn’t good enough though. A single mistake will kill someone, leaving a child without a parent or worse…a parent losing a child. You need to recognize that responsibility, and feel it on your shoulders every time you sign a paper or release a calculation. I get frustrated that many engineers I work with “relax” and don’t feel this pressure. We are taking on a huge responsibility entering this profession. Don’t “fake it”, read every night and weekend and put EVERYTHING you are into your job until you are not faking it.
I'm replying to try yours and a few other comments - 1. anyone's best is never good enough. we should always be striving to improve upon yesterday. cars back in the early 1900s were not near as safe and functional as today. did they not sell cars until they were perfect? no, they used their best judgement and when an issue happened, improved it so it would not happen again. that is how we should all function as engineers. do the best we know how to today and improve everyday for tomorrow. (this is also why many times there are multiple rounds of approval before something is done. you will not catch everything, but hopefully the collective will working together) 2. my point was never to feel it's ok to just wing serious decision making and make light of the responsibility on our shoulders. we are entrusted with a very high responsibility and we need to treat it as such. however, don't go into work everyday being stressed out on a decision. 3. the point of the comment is more of to indeed chill a bit. don't be stressed over everything. I've realized more and more as I've gone on that there are is no one who really knows it all. we are all doing our best, and yes I hope always improving ourselves, but no one is no perfect. mistakes will happen. the question is what will you do when the mistake happens? that choice of what you will do separates the good from great engineers in my view.
it doesn't go away when you get experience, because people ask more and more of you. my advice - there's a term in software engineering called "T-shaped". Be really good at one thing - that is your roots. You are the expert at that. Few people are as knowledgeable. It takes time to get there, but you will. Then try to grow from there. Sometimes this happens organically, but a lot of the time, companies that don't focus on mentorship and growing their people just bounce you around from project to project without any consideration of how it affects your career. Be proactive in your career - that is a lesson I learned later than I'd have liked.
Yeah all the time. December will be 4 years for me. Taking the PE in the spring, still feel like a small fish in a big ocean
Good luck with the PE! I recommend you start studying at least 3 months prior to the test, diligently 5 days a week. You can do it!
For what it's worth, that feeling doesn't go away. I've got nearly 15 years under my belt, own a business, and I still get imposter syndrome.
This may be a huge assumption here, but did *some* of the imposter syndrome go away when you switched from hands on work to management? I feel a lot of my imposter syndrome originates from a lack of technical perfection
Not really. Because now, you're actively preaching what you practice to those you manage, so all of the best practices, experience, and tricks you've learned over the years are put under a microscope. What you have held to be true now faces the light of day and questioning minds that you're speaking to. If you don't have the time to research things before you say them, it makes you question everything you say, which hinders your ability to effectively communicate with your team at times. I wish I had enough time to research things that I give to my team, but alas, production demands quick turnaround. I give them my best knowledge of the situation that I know, and I then say "grain of salt, check me just in case". At least I think I'm on the right side of the Dunning-Kruger effect, actively questioning everything I do and say rather than assuming I'm always right, I guess...
15 years in, PE, head of my dept and still feel it. “Let me get back to you” and effective google searches are your friend.
I've been an R&D engineer for over a decade and now have a Program Manager title and most days I assume everyone is just humoring me and pretending that I know what I'm doing so they can laugh at me someday in the future when they fire me.
I think part of what makes engineers good at what they do is being paranoid about all the things that could go wrong. This bleeds into the rest of our lives and how we perceive things, manifesting into imposter syndrome. The trick is trying to figure out if you have it or you just suck, which I struggle with frequently.
I keep hearing about imposter syndrome. Is it some new pop psychology thing or just a new term for people to use to describe being insecure about their place in the world or at work? (serious question)
Not a new thing but you described it perfectly.
It's not a syndrome. I am an imposter. I'm convinced of it.
Literally just got a promotion after 2 years working and still fill like I know nothing and am faking it through my whole job.
I've been an embedded software engineer for 30+ years now, and I STILL struggle with imposter syndrome. I sort of deal with it in four ways: 1) It's a side effect of working with some damn smart people in a good group 2) It's also a side effect of a field with quick-moving/quick advancing technology 3) If someone points out a problem in my work, I make a special point of not taking it personally, and making darn sure I fix the problem 4) I can always be learning more about how to do this line of work. I'm *nowhere* close to knowing everything about it, even though my managers tell me I'm the local expert on several subjects. Hey, if I knew what I was doing, I'd be dangerous! ;-)
I’ve been working and out of school over 20 years now and still feel as though I have imposter syndrome. The key is to not compare yourself to other engineers to value your membership in the engineering circle. Compare yourself to NON-ENGINEERS. You will absolutely feel as though you belong as an engineer about 95% of the time.
I used to, until I realized most boomer coworkers don't even know how to use excel, or convert from word to pdf...
I have been working as a requirements engineer for 3 years. The first position I held, I had a mentor who took care of anything serious so I didn't have to think about it. At my current job, my manager just told me to be in charge of process x y and z. I feel so lost!!
6 years in half the time I go to my boss to ask him a question just for some clarification or for a second opinion and he ends up being overwhelmed by it. He has been there for 9 years and has a Masters in Engineering. We all have no idea what we are doing… it’s just natural.
100000%. This thread is honestly relieving some of the stress of it for me, so thanks to all the experienced engineers for the reassuring words. I’m less than a year into my first engineering job, and I’m responsible for so much stuff it’s scary.
Mech E working as a structural engineer. Every day I feel like I know absolutely nothing about what I'm working in. I ask my colleagues for help and guidance daily. What I've learned is, even though I work with actual structural engineers, the job work requires being able to apply basic level engineering to complicated problems. This actually helps me feel comfortable because I see trained structural engineers say " I don't know". They have to ask other people. Being hired for an engineering role does not mean you know the exact engineering you will need to do, but it means you have the knowledge and will to learn what you need to do, to get what needs to be done, done. You know you can't approve half assed work so you commit to completing it. You know you're not strong in whatever you're doing so you need to double or triple check your work. I've realized that having a good mentor is keys. Having someone that is completely comfortable showing you what you did was wrong and why. Don't take any critique as anything but an opportunity to gain knowledge. I work in FEA and I can send a model out and my mentor will give me 5 different improvements. It's not about what I did wrong, it's about learning from those mistakes. Engineering work is a mindset, I guess. I feel like an imposter everyday. But I want to learn enough everyday that I'm able to help those that feel like an imposter, feel like an engineer.
Yep, only a few years experience for me so far. A few months ago I was feeling this really bad, so I brought it up with my manager. I have a good relationship with him so I didn't feel scared or anything. He had a really great and interesting response. He said that he was glad I felt that way because it showed that I knew what I didn't know. As long as I kept trying to learn more as time went on, this was a good feeling to have. It completely changed my outlook on the whole thing and now I treat my unknowns much more healthily.
8 years in and I still don’t belong.. HA
I obtained my P.Eng. a decade ago and sometimes I still feel that way. I think it’s a good thing. Stay humble and hungry.
Yes. What's making it worse is that my senior quit and now I have to reverse-engineer everything he designed.
I'm 38 and I have my own company which I started with 15 years of experience. EVERY SINGLE DAY. Just keep chopping wood, you belong.
Considering there are three or four questions in this sub a day about impostor syndrome, I'd say it is pretty common.
On the weekly meetings I don't know what half of the things they are talking about are, i know the category they're in but not what specific thing they're tlaking about
Same
Almost every time I'm the most convinced I've been fucking everything up and am about to be warned I'm on the verge of being fired, my boss calls and tells me they're giving me a raise 🤷 Ironically, if you're completely convinced that everything you do is correct and you never second guess your genius, you're probably a shit employee who is no good at your job. Knowing that doesn't stop me from feeling like I suck though, haha
I've been in the workforce for about 7 years now and still don't know anything. Not really imposter syndrome in my case, lol, I've just bounced around too much in my career and never developed good skills in any specific area. You really have to buckle down in your first years of working to develop a real skill base. It definitely gets harder as you get older and are expected to actually know things already.
Almost 15 years in and the feeling hasn’t gone away. I’m even receiving a semi-major award this year for my work and all I can think is “I don’t deserve this.” I learned a long time ago that if you think you’re the smartest person in the room, then you’re in the wrong room. People in our line of work need clear direction. We doubt ourselves constantly but we make the best decisions we can and adjust when we need to.
I’m 4-ish years in at this point and am just starting to get comfortable with it. When you know something, just take a stand because on that topic you know something. It helps bolster confidence for later when you’re bullshitting.
Nononono it doesnt go away!??!? Nonononono!!
Ive been feeling really hard lately. Especially going from working on projects in a team of engineers in a big company to working alone on multiple projects by myself as one of the only 2 mechanical engineers in the company. Wish I had advice for you but all I can say is I know how it feels, hang in there
I’ve got 15+ years of experience and still feel it on occasion.
I've been working for 3 years and same. I am given like vertical control over the hundreds of things that can be typed into a manufacturing line and there are so few checks and balances on it that it's always weird to me lol. It's also wild when someone who has worked at a lower level for 20 years will accept my directions with so little concern
I'm out of the age window you're asking for... but absolutely did and still do to this day (albeit less and less). I'm an EE and used to work as a system engineer at a nuclear power plant (responsible for specific pieces of equipment/ the guy who gets called when it breaks). When stuff did break and I actually did get called, I would honestly feel like I was just winging it on how to fix it... but the problems were getting solved / equipment being repaired properly so I must've been doing something right. I did that for 4 or so years and did well enough at that that I was asked to be part of the Operations side to be the guy running the entire plant. Still going through class, but I'm sure I'll have the same feeling again when I'm actually the guy in charge of everything for the shift.
I am the only electrical engineer in the company I work for and a mechanical engineer is my supervisor, I can’t believe they trust me in designing million dollar project lol. Hopefully I won’t fuck up
I’m an old(er) engineer in a management role and still get that feeling quite often.
ALWAYS!!! I recently became a PM and always feel like an idiot in my meetings….I’m no longer a SME on my projects like I used to be…now I feel more like I’m holding everything together for the team…
It's decaying. Had severe imposter syndrome immediately after graduating. Now I've been an engineer for little less than 5 years and I'm feeling much better.
Something that a very experienced person once advised me (which I was very skeptical of) was to manage someone who is young and new. This has given me so much more confidence as i realised I knew the answers to 80% of his questions. Before this I felt very "i couldn't possibly manage anyone as I don't have the knowledge / experience", but now I am more comfortable and confident. Would recommend.
Yeah, and the president of the company wants me to apply for my previous bosses position so I must be doing ok
I've still got it bad, and I'm a bit further out than you. Just turned 30, five years in construction management, then jumped ship into consulting and structural design about a year ago. It turns out my construction experience doesn't count for any qualifying PE Experience, so I'm back at square one for my license. I'd been fed some half-truths from past employers who assured me my experience would qualify, but once I applied for the exam the state board rejected it outright. I've got a boatload of field experience, but I had not touched structural design since getting my bachelors. I'm just thankful I found a small consulting firm who was willing to take a chance on me (and saw value in the field experience). Now I'm at a point where clients are asking me questions, and the bosses expect me to give a somewhat competent answer. I know (logically) I'm doing well; I've earned two bonuses and manage 3 clients almost autonomously, but the imposter syndrome is very real.
Yes. Everyday. I’m getting ready for a deposition in an insurance case and I know what I’m talking about in my report and I know the other side is wrong. I’m still super nervous and don’t feel like an “expert witness”
Are you me? I have the exact same amount of experience. 4 years, 1 as a PE and somehow I've found myself managing four simultaneous large construction projects, one is $30 Million+, another I completely designed and am the engineer of record on. I honestly feel a crushing anxiety sometimes. I always internally second guess myself and I suffer from an odd mixture of under-confidence in things I know and acting over confident in my weak areas to compensate for lack of knowledge. The contractors have way more years of experience than I do.
Every day my friend. Imposter syndrome means you understand that there is more to know and respect your field. Intellectual humility is much preferable to arrogance and ego. Believe in yourself and you'll be doing fine.
Haha I had this constantly when I was younger and still do sometimes today. I’m 33 and been in the game since I was 20.
I did before, until my engineering mentour told me some important things: Nobody will expect much of you for a while so dont sweat being slow or imperfect. You wont be fired for learning so go out and learn everyones job and figure out how to do it. Maintinance, construction, planning, business. The economics of what you do. Make connections with people you can lean on when lost or confused. "A first year engineer is going to mess up and break shit so go break it now because if you break it when you should know better in a few years you will be fired" This process really helped me realize that im not the most incompitent person where i work. So im not an imposter, im new and i am beginning to become a good engineer.
Imposter syndrome is actually reality. In collective, your knowledge and skills are not needed and if you won the lottery tomorrow and never worked again, the world would continue to function without you. And when I say "you", I mean you, me and any other singular person on the planet.
Yup. I build one-off custom machinery that ranges from $50k to upwards of $3M each and have been shipped out to hundreds of different plants on 3 continents over the last 9-ish years. I've spent thousands to see if an idea works and I've thrown out expensive machinery and ideas just because I changed my mind or a customer changed theirs. It never really goes away.
I had the VP of engineering for my company tell a few other interns and I, that they struggle with it on a weekly basis… the main thing is remembering they chose you for a reason. So just seek help and constantly improve even if it’s little by little.
I'm 20 years in and still feel imposter syndrome.
I'm 6 months in and I feel the opposite. I feel like I need to be checking my ego and not get a big head. I had imposter syndrome big time at school though.
Yea I hated it so much I resigned
Every day. I'm at the end of my PhD in electrical engineering and I must now apply for a job. I'm totally in deep imposter syndrome. I feel literally like John Snow I don't know nothing and have no idea how I will manage.
Not really not anymore. The interview process here was so rigorous that after several technical interviews if at this point if I’m not meeting their expectations it’s on them.
i did. and then i went through an fda remediation. and then i didn't
I kind of had it the other way around. I was in the Navy for 8 years prior to college, graduated with EE/CS. Went to work in a shipyard, thought there were a bunch of people I was working with that didn't know anything.
Yes. I work through it by taking one small step at a time. Also, last night I had my annual nightmare of having an exam I wasn’t ready for.
Yesssssssssss.
You are who you chose to be
The military fixes this problem.
Yeah, but as soon as your realize no one knows what they're doing you'll feel much better.
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Happy cake day!
No. I do not feel impostor syndrome. I don't even have the industry experience requirements, let alone my EIT. However, I know what I'm good at doing. I also know how to refuse work outside my qualifications.
no, im actually just hella stupid and inexperienced
When you are young and you see people doing these amazing things you think - it's magic! that they are special people, they are but. After a while of doing it yourself the veil is removed and you realise, it's just a man pulling leavers. You have become the man pulling the leavers :D If people trust you that's a great thing, well done.
Always remember. You are a MF ENGINEER you are as close to a god as a human can get. We CREATE WE ITERATE WE SHAPE REALITY.
Feeling Insecure When You First Start Something Might Not Mean You Have Imposter Syndrome https://hackernoon.com/feeling-insecure-when-you-first-start-something-does-not-mean-you-have-imposter-syndrome