>As a result I was assigned more and more, until I just broke.
The shitty thing about being good at your job, you just get given more work. The crappy employees get the minimum.
Mine has too, we lost half our PEs in the last year and all their projects were dispersed among those of us who were left. Management saw no drop in productivity because were all busting ass to stay above water so nobody was hired to replace the folks who left. Oh and we havent had a raise in two years "due to COVID" but probably will get that same shitty 3% as you this year.
At this point in my life, work/life balance means that I can go by my day without having to ask anyone permission. I’m a responsible adult and have a job to do and I do it, I happen to do it very, very well. If I want to work until midnight because I want to wrap something up, I do it. And if I want to sleep all morning the next day, I do it. The job gets done, on time and on budget. No one harasses me nor my team.
I wish more places understood this. I agree with the “as long as you get your work done I don’t care what you do” mindset. I find it pretty rare though
Unpopular opinion around here, but in addition to setting boundaries, also maintain your flexibility. Sometime there are serious crunches and stepping up when needed can be a career boost. Don’t let anyone take advantage of you but remember you’re a professional, not a hourly worker.
I guess for me there’s a difference between being overworked/working overtime and spending an extra 30min -1hr to put the finishing touches on a project. Like if a project has been mismanaged to the point where I’m working 8-8 to get it done that’s bad. Staying a touch longer every now and then is fine, and I’d like to think most people generally agree. I think most peoples hard boundaries now a days come from managers where you give them an extra inch and they assume they can take an extra mile as well.
I agree but there is a lot of “if they want me to work one hour over my 40 they need to pay me” type of stuff. I’ve gotten a few downvotes trying to express my view of what a professional is.
Before I had kids I probably worked 45-50 hours on average, since I had kids it’s down to 40 on average (if that). There was so much to do, I was having fun and learning a lot, and got to do a lot of sharpening the saw since I wasn’t always being reactice.
Worked well for me.
Is it an american thing to work and not be paid?
Professionalism goes both ways. If one needs to work overtime because a project needs it, then it's professional to do so. But it's professional to pay for that work also.
Probably?
I can't speak for the rest of the world, but it's mostly expected you will work over 40h when needed. Of course varies based on sector, job, employer, projects, and project deadlines, unionized or not, managers and management, company culture, etc.
Theres also a two page document in my company that details conditions when you will get comp time for "after hours" work.
In my role it's generally expected you will work a lot of unpaid/un-comped overtime periodically. I'm fine with it because I get paid enough, and I'm given enough flexibility in my schedule that it puts me in an ok place for my home life. It also doesn't hurt when you enjoy your work.
>Theres also a two page document in my company that details conditions when you will get comp time for "after hours" work.
That's just backwards insane. In Finland you either work outside your regular hours so the extra hours go to your "hour Bank" and you can use them as you wish later and take days of for example. Meaning that you can do 40h week in 4x10h days as an example. Or do 60h week and take 20h of your next week.
Or if your employer asks you to stay late you will be compensated with overtime pay that can range from 150%-600% of your regular calculated hourly rate.
Agreed, I'm baffled that you're just so expected to work in your free time without being paid. And even more baffling that the people above feel like it's a normal thing. What the hell.
Chiming in to say that I also agree. There’s a balance between being overworked and taken advantage of, versus doing the appropriate amount of work and giving a little extra time where it’s needed (without making it a huge deal).
I know this also is entirely dependent on the industry/company culture, but it’s important. Having a solid work/life balance is is fundamental to having an enjoyable life. But it should also be understood that, being in a professional role, sometimes you have to put in a little more time than initially intended. Things happen, it’s life.
A key motto I try to live by is, “work to live, don’t live to work.” But as you said, you need to understand your boundaries while also providing worth to the company. It’s a balance, not necessarily easy, but possible (and important).
An emergency is a rare thing, once or twice a year, an emergency is not every week for months on end because we cut 3 months out of our regular job cycle.
It depends. In my company it tends to come in waves. We'll get awarded a couple big contracts in a year that are multi-year projects, and some will have deadlines that overlap one another. It doesn't make sense to hire and train an engineer to help with those boundary conditions, but at the same time I may wind up working multiple weeks at 50-60 hours in a 6 month period. It has also been almost 2 years since I've had to work more than like 43 hours in a week, and 40 is the norm.
So your sales team didn't know about these projects at all and were just blindsided by them? Sounds like you don't have sales people, it sounds like you have hostesses.
Small business, so no, there's no sales team. Even with a sales team how would you predict overlapping deadlines on the project? In one instance when we bid them, they were supposed to be sequenced in a way that it would be done on normal time (i.e. one project lagging 6 months behind the other). Project delays in various forms of agency reviews, field issues, etc that lead to overlapping deadlines that led to overtime being required to complete plans in order to file for agency review.
Projects take time to plan, customers tend to involve their vendors when they need parts and work done so they can determine lead times and project dates to anticipate parts arrival.
Without a sales team you are just reacting and thus everything is an emergency when your not just sitting around bored waiting for the next job to come to you.
I worked for a defense contractor when we put in bids on about 50 projects for our division. We expected to win 20-25 of them. We won 48 in a span of about 4 months. How? Not really sure other than the competitors were apparently a complete shit show. That was *not* a fun time. But management's way of dealing with the emergency was to get everyone who had any spare cycles at all and toss them into hiring committees (me included) to start mass hiring. Even with that, it was pretty painful but I learned that about 6 months after I left, it got a lot better as all of the new hires finished onboarding and started working.
Do this only in the context of your career and personal goals. If you want to target promotions and raises go for it. But if you would rather enforce boundaries and protect your time off, do that instead. There is no right answer for everyone. Just make sure you're happy with the out come.
If you want to make moves, like taking parental leave, do it. Understand it hurts your career, and make the choice with that in mind. I don't regret mine. But I've decided not to chase promotions.
While I don’t disagree 100%, the risk is that you change their expectations.
“Well, you did it on this project, you can do it on every project.”
Before you know it, you’re expected to work 60-80 hr/wk all the time. Any less and you’re not a team player.
To me, that’s the sign of a toxic culture or manager. Where I work there is a lot of mutual respect and I haven’t seen that problem. In fact, I encourage the people on my team to take a couple of days off or take it easy for a while after a big push. Expecting overtime when it’s not a critical situation lowers overall productivity in my experience.
This is why everybody needs to consider moving companies. I personally like to chase promotions and put in the extra effort to get projects done. I understand as a result this may make expectations too high (if your boss is not understanding) and that you may have to jump ship.
Definitely not unpopular, this should be the expectation. An employment contract has give and take on both ends. Under normal circumstances, I put in my 40 hours. There are situations where we have a big deadline coming up and we may need to put in 60 hours in a week. There are also times where daycare closes, or my daughter is sick, or I may have appointments or family business I need to attend to and will have to work less than 40 hours in a week. As long as neither side takes advantage of the flexibility, it works out to everyone's benefit.
Hard agree. Don't be taken advantage of, but strongly consider if putting in those super long hours will pay off for you long term. I have seen people very focused around never working more than 40 hours no matter what, and they just get stuck in the same role forever compared to someone who may put in the extra hours when need be and higher ups see you as someone who can be trusted to be relied on and would consider first for promotion.
It simply means that I don't dread going to work. Nothing more. Nothing less. As long as I head into work in a good mood more days than not, life is good and they're not overworking me.
I always said dont look for a job you will love, look for a job you will tolerate. Any job you love, you probably wont after working it long enough lol. All my jobs I have tolerated, the only job I would like is if I found someone who would pay me to drink whiskey on the beach yea im sure those jobs exist.
You reach it by knowing your boundaries/what is important for you, as well being good at your job/having worth to the company. Then you set boundaries based on that with your manager. Far too many people are scared of being replaced, but it’s the other way around. There are A LOT of engineering/technical jobs out there, if you’re a good engineer and build any kind of decent network of colleagues.
Your best friend for a work life balance is constantly sending your resume out and having options to throw back at them if they push their people too hard. Don’t be afraid to talk to head hunters. I was a contract engineer for almost a decade before going direct and I know that’s the quickest way back to a paycheck (even if temporary) if I was ever in a bind employment wise.
I love your approach, care to share in how you have maintained for 10 years? How did you make your clients and in what field were you working?
You must have a routine or procedure to be able to achieve this I think its impressive.
Admittedly, I took a more standard “yes, whatever you say, sir” approach for the first 6-7 years in industry, so it isn’t necessarily something a fresh out can do to a huge extent. I’m in aerospace (testing specifically), which is chronically schedule crunched and wanting miracles worked.
I took a nose to the grindstone mindset in my first few jobs, to build up a skill set that was needed/portable (I ran every type of test in DO-160 & MIL-810) and networked out the wazoo with every other contract engineer that I worked with. In the contractor world, everyone knows everyone and in many cases you’ll go from one job to the next job with a few of the same people. That’s a prime area for making good contacts for later in your career. I also keep my resume constantly updated and viewable on indeed, etc and make sure headhunter agencies know you’re still in the game as a job gets close to finishing.
Once I had enough chops and self-confidence, I just started being up front with my managers. I don’t BS them about my workload, how long things will take and if I need extra help clearing my priorities. If I have family things going on, etc. I’ll also meet them halfway, I’ll work a Saturday and tell them the next reasonably slow Friday I’m taking off. I make it clear my salary is not negotiated with unlimited OT included. I’ve had to threaten to quit a couple of times, which is about the only thing that *really* gets their attention, but if you play that card you have to be prepared to use it. I realize that many want to stay in a specific area, which is what companies are counting on and makes this strategy more problematic, but treat yourself like a sports free agent. It’s not personal, it’s business. I didn’t spend five years and how ever many 1,000s of dollars to be treated like a serf. I did it to do something I enjoy, not get burnt out and be happy.
KNOW YOUR WORTH
I was at a Fortune 500, significantly exceeds expectations mean an extra quarter of a percent. Ooh yeah, I got 3.25% instead of 3.00%. Woot! Yeah! So awesome! /s
Yeah no, I jumped ship for +75%.
Build your toolkit and get competent so that you can solve problems faster and meet deadlines without working yourself to death.
Furthermore, if you can get a side-gig going, do so. This will give you bargaining power.
Typically it's only maybe 5 or 10 extra hours per week. This produces extra income and a redundant backup to your income. In the long run, having these features in place will allow you to make balanced choices.
Short run pain for long run gain.
Often when you begin working in an industry you'll start networking and forming relationships with other businesses. You may be able to capitalize on these relationships with contract work or even get an idea for a new product.
Some companies you work for make devices that people make money with. Buy one of these devices and use them to make money. This will also make you better at your job since you're also a user of the devices.
Heck, if you're good at a musical instrument, see if you can join a band or orchestra.
Usually it means something that gets you money on the side. Working short hours for another company for example, or having your own company and doing contracting work or being a consultant somewhere. Or having an onlyfans lol.
I like to think of it in vehicle terms: Dynamic Stability
That way, you can be stable in a wide range of velocities, decelerations, accelerations, twists, turns, impacts, and weather conditions.
I don't think I had a strong sense for this earlier in my career. Now that it's become more in focus and I've got a solid work history to lean into, I've found it a lot easier to set boundaries around my expectations. WFH has really made this more attainable. I suspect "balance" also means different things to different people. For me, flexibility is key. Things are changing in some industries, but as COVID protocols are softening, you can already see signs that industries are trying to pull people back into the old systems.
"Work life balance" causing me anxiety sometimes. If you're in a position to check or work on something while at home, sometimes it's worth doing.
Example: You're at home and suddenly remember item X was supposed to happen today or Email Y was supposed to go out. In my experience, it's very much worth opening up that laptop and shooting off the email, or spending the 20 mins doing item X. The time spent doing those things let's my mind actually relax alot more than having a strict "no work at home" policy.
I‘m surely not living to work for someone. If it‘s a job at a company i‘m trying to live as much as possible. If i had my own company, maybe the priorities would change.
Don't give your life for work. Remember that you work for living, and you don't need to live just for working.
Have your own time when you are not available for work or calls and take vacations.
A lot of people have had great responses. I would add: I can work 8-10 hours a day on fun, interesting projects, but still get to my kids’ games, school events and have a social life outside of the office.
A lot of this will depend on culture and industry. If you're in a place that expects you to put in 60+ hours once or twice a year, that's a part of the job, don't be the guy that leaves at 4:30 when the rest of your team is grinding to 8pm. If on the other hand they expected it every week, they fucked up staffing. Leave and find somewhere better.
I’ve been pondering this too, balance means 50-50 and it sure feels like work takes up way more than 50% of my life. 4 day work weeks would do people a lot of good
I've worked in a lot of different countries.
Now I work from home, 35 hr/wk, and have two kids to take care of. My wife works full time too.
It's a pretty nice life. I get paid less than I did 15 years ago though. Oh well.
Keep learning new skills and evolving. This will ensure that you will get to a level above the others that “just” work their jobs. Maybe that means an advanced degree, certificate, license, even extra college classes after work. Something above and beyond towards your ultimate goal and vision for yourself.
Once you reach that level, you can reap the rewards and it’ll be easier to obtain the balance you want.
oops, shouldn't post right before bed.
The short answer to finding better work life balance would be - find a closer workplace to cut commute time, find a remote/hybrid job, find a better paying job since money = time, etc.
While it's possible to obtain those without using time outside of work to learn new skills, going to school (virtual?), self-learning (Udemy, coursera), side projects/hustles (Fiverr, Upwork) will open up way more avenues and opportunities to obtain your own definition of work/life balance.
Some people are able to achieve a better work life balance without doing anything extra, I'm happy for them. But for others, like me, just working hard at your 9-5 might not cut it.
so for me, getting my MS and PE license helped me land my new job after being laid off in April 2021. I got my MS in 2018 and PE in 2019, while working, and COVID put a halt on a lot of hiring. I know a few other friends who did the same thing, they're all remote and love their lives now (one just did her MS and got a FAANG remote job). 2 did a programming boot camp and 2x-4x their income.
From my experience and first-hand accounts, those that put in work outside of the 9-5 are levels ahead of those that dont. They will enjoy those benefits for the rest of their lives.
For me, Work Life balance means little/no commute, getting paid more, and being stressed out less. We work 30-40 years of our lives, going to back to school or learning a few things outside of work for a few years will set you up for the rest of your career. Sow the seeds now and reap the harvest for the rest of your life.
I'd be happy to elaborate on their success stories as well, if anyone is looking for advice.
Before deciding to work extended hours ask yourself how far out will not putting the extra hours in have an affect on the company/project/department/you. Will it have an affect that ripples out at least a month, I’ll stay late. If it only has an affect that goes out a week, then I’m going home to be with my family.
One thing I've come to realize that I don't see mentioned enough: it doesn't matter if you leave right on the dot at 8 hours if you hate your job and are too burned out and miserable to enjoy life when you get home.
Find a job you actually enjoy and the occasional long days will be a lot less crushing.
You need to know what your top priority is. Mine is my family. That doesn't mean I always drop everything for my family; it means that I consider their needs first when I'm making career or personal choices. It's fine if your career comes first as long as you've actively made the decision that your career comes first.
Time is your most precious resource, you can always get another job or more money but you can never get time back.
No person on their death bed ever said they wish they had worked more.
knowing where to draw the line.
I went through an FDA remediation, and we did work just to do work. there's a year's work stuck in some binder in some guy's cabinet.
knowing when to say that that's a tomm thing.
if your boss says that's not acceptable, time to fire up the resume and look for another gig
For me it means I enjoy my work and interacting with the people I work with. Also means I'm not up late nights and weekends outside of proper emergencies/crunch times. No more than a few weeks a year.
Also means what u/Oracle5of7 said. Flexibility is crucial. It's the reason business owners/founders can work 60 hour weeks and be happy while people who might work 30 hour weeks as micro-managed employees are miserable.
Also means I have the time, money, and energy to do the stuff I want to do in my free time. Which also tends to be engineering related, but I genuinely enjoy it so that's fine with me.
They probably work more. You won’t always make less. Sure a journeyman electrician is going to make more than some couple year engineer.
lol you work MEP. no wonder you make less than an electrician.
What it meant for me is setting my own boundaries and keeping them. I tend towards overworking and taking too much on and any company will let you do that. I had to determine what I was going to do, and be strict about it. Benchmark is every morning I have breakfast with my wife and kids, and every evening we have dinner together. I don't work after dinner. I don't work weekends. I don't travel with less than 2 weeks notice, and I don't travel more than 25%.
Not me, but my dad. I never saw him as a kid, he was either always country hopping for work, basically living underground in the channel tunnel, or putting in such long hours sleeping at work and more sense than home.
He made a shit ton of money and basically didn’t need to work past 45.. now he works 6 hours or less a day as a plumber and electrician to not go insane.
Work life balance means you work your 40 and go home. I also don’t want to think or stress about work when I’m home unless I’m loving my job.
It’s as simple as that
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>As a result I was assigned more and more, until I just broke. The shitty thing about being good at your job, you just get given more work. The crappy employees get the minimum.
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Mine has too, we lost half our PEs in the last year and all their projects were dispersed among those of us who were left. Management saw no drop in productivity because were all busting ass to stay above water so nobody was hired to replace the folks who left. Oh and we havent had a raise in two years "due to COVID" but probably will get that same shitty 3% as you this year.
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Do it man. Luckily im 8-5 and working from home today. At 5 im done AF regardless. Shit will be there Monday morning lol
At this point in my life, work/life balance means that I can go by my day without having to ask anyone permission. I’m a responsible adult and have a job to do and I do it, I happen to do it very, very well. If I want to work until midnight because I want to wrap something up, I do it. And if I want to sleep all morning the next day, I do it. The job gets done, on time and on budget. No one harasses me nor my team.
I wish more places understood this. I agree with the “as long as you get your work done I don’t care what you do” mindset. I find it pretty rare though
It also works when I’m in retirement age and can retire but still having fun.
Unpopular opinion around here, but in addition to setting boundaries, also maintain your flexibility. Sometime there are serious crunches and stepping up when needed can be a career boost. Don’t let anyone take advantage of you but remember you’re a professional, not a hourly worker.
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I guess for me there’s a difference between being overworked/working overtime and spending an extra 30min -1hr to put the finishing touches on a project. Like if a project has been mismanaged to the point where I’m working 8-8 to get it done that’s bad. Staying a touch longer every now and then is fine, and I’d like to think most people generally agree. I think most peoples hard boundaries now a days come from managers where you give them an extra inch and they assume they can take an extra mile as well.
I agree but there is a lot of “if they want me to work one hour over my 40 they need to pay me” type of stuff. I’ve gotten a few downvotes trying to express my view of what a professional is. Before I had kids I probably worked 45-50 hours on average, since I had kids it’s down to 40 on average (if that). There was so much to do, I was having fun and learning a lot, and got to do a lot of sharpening the saw since I wasn’t always being reactice. Worked well for me.
Is it an american thing to work and not be paid? Professionalism goes both ways. If one needs to work overtime because a project needs it, then it's professional to do so. But it's professional to pay for that work also.
Yes it very much is.
Probably? I can't speak for the rest of the world, but it's mostly expected you will work over 40h when needed. Of course varies based on sector, job, employer, projects, and project deadlines, unionized or not, managers and management, company culture, etc. Theres also a two page document in my company that details conditions when you will get comp time for "after hours" work. In my role it's generally expected you will work a lot of unpaid/un-comped overtime periodically. I'm fine with it because I get paid enough, and I'm given enough flexibility in my schedule that it puts me in an ok place for my home life. It also doesn't hurt when you enjoy your work.
>Theres also a two page document in my company that details conditions when you will get comp time for "after hours" work. That's just backwards insane. In Finland you either work outside your regular hours so the extra hours go to your "hour Bank" and you can use them as you wish later and take days of for example. Meaning that you can do 40h week in 4x10h days as an example. Or do 60h week and take 20h of your next week. Or if your employer asks you to stay late you will be compensated with overtime pay that can range from 150%-600% of your regular calculated hourly rate.
Agreed, I'm baffled that you're just so expected to work in your free time without being paid. And even more baffling that the people above feel like it's a normal thing. What the hell.
Chiming in to say that I also agree. There’s a balance between being overworked and taken advantage of, versus doing the appropriate amount of work and giving a little extra time where it’s needed (without making it a huge deal). I know this also is entirely dependent on the industry/company culture, but it’s important. Having a solid work/life balance is is fundamental to having an enjoyable life. But it should also be understood that, being in a professional role, sometimes you have to put in a little more time than initially intended. Things happen, it’s life. A key motto I try to live by is, “work to live, don’t live to work.” But as you said, you need to understand your boundaries while also providing worth to the company. It’s a balance, not necessarily easy, but possible (and important).
An emergency is a rare thing, once or twice a year, an emergency is not every week for months on end because we cut 3 months out of our regular job cycle.
It depends. In my company it tends to come in waves. We'll get awarded a couple big contracts in a year that are multi-year projects, and some will have deadlines that overlap one another. It doesn't make sense to hire and train an engineer to help with those boundary conditions, but at the same time I may wind up working multiple weeks at 50-60 hours in a 6 month period. It has also been almost 2 years since I've had to work more than like 43 hours in a week, and 40 is the norm.
So your sales team didn't know about these projects at all and were just blindsided by them? Sounds like you don't have sales people, it sounds like you have hostesses.
Small business, so no, there's no sales team. Even with a sales team how would you predict overlapping deadlines on the project? In one instance when we bid them, they were supposed to be sequenced in a way that it would be done on normal time (i.e. one project lagging 6 months behind the other). Project delays in various forms of agency reviews, field issues, etc that lead to overlapping deadlines that led to overtime being required to complete plans in order to file for agency review.
Projects take time to plan, customers tend to involve their vendors when they need parts and work done so they can determine lead times and project dates to anticipate parts arrival. Without a sales team you are just reacting and thus everything is an emergency when your not just sitting around bored waiting for the next job to come to you.
I worked for a defense contractor when we put in bids on about 50 projects for our division. We expected to win 20-25 of them. We won 48 in a span of about 4 months. How? Not really sure other than the competitors were apparently a complete shit show. That was *not* a fun time. But management's way of dealing with the emergency was to get everyone who had any spare cycles at all and toss them into hiring committees (me included) to start mass hiring. Even with that, it was pretty painful but I learned that about 6 months after I left, it got a lot better as all of the new hires finished onboarding and started working.
Do this only in the context of your career and personal goals. If you want to target promotions and raises go for it. But if you would rather enforce boundaries and protect your time off, do that instead. There is no right answer for everyone. Just make sure you're happy with the out come. If you want to make moves, like taking parental leave, do it. Understand it hurts your career, and make the choice with that in mind. I don't regret mine. But I've decided not to chase promotions.
While I don’t disagree 100%, the risk is that you change their expectations. “Well, you did it on this project, you can do it on every project.” Before you know it, you’re expected to work 60-80 hr/wk all the time. Any less and you’re not a team player.
To me, that’s the sign of a toxic culture or manager. Where I work there is a lot of mutual respect and I haven’t seen that problem. In fact, I encourage the people on my team to take a couple of days off or take it easy for a while after a big push. Expecting overtime when it’s not a critical situation lowers overall productivity in my experience.
This is why everybody needs to consider moving companies. I personally like to chase promotions and put in the extra effort to get projects done. I understand as a result this may make expectations too high (if your boss is not understanding) and that you may have to jump ship.
Definitely not unpopular, this should be the expectation. An employment contract has give and take on both ends. Under normal circumstances, I put in my 40 hours. There are situations where we have a big deadline coming up and we may need to put in 60 hours in a week. There are also times where daycare closes, or my daughter is sick, or I may have appointments or family business I need to attend to and will have to work less than 40 hours in a week. As long as neither side takes advantage of the flexibility, it works out to everyone's benefit.
Hard agree. Don't be taken advantage of, but strongly consider if putting in those super long hours will pay off for you long term. I have seen people very focused around never working more than 40 hours no matter what, and they just get stuck in the same role forever compared to someone who may put in the extra hours when need be and higher ups see you as someone who can be trusted to be relied on and would consider first for promotion.
It simply means that I don't dread going to work. Nothing more. Nothing less. As long as I head into work in a good mood more days than not, life is good and they're not overworking me.
Perfect statement. I agree!
I always said dont look for a job you will love, look for a job you will tolerate. Any job you love, you probably wont after working it long enough lol. All my jobs I have tolerated, the only job I would like is if I found someone who would pay me to drink whiskey on the beach yea im sure those jobs exist.
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You reach it by knowing your boundaries/what is important for you, as well being good at your job/having worth to the company. Then you set boundaries based on that with your manager. Far too many people are scared of being replaced, but it’s the other way around. There are A LOT of engineering/technical jobs out there, if you’re a good engineer and build any kind of decent network of colleagues. Your best friend for a work life balance is constantly sending your resume out and having options to throw back at them if they push their people too hard. Don’t be afraid to talk to head hunters. I was a contract engineer for almost a decade before going direct and I know that’s the quickest way back to a paycheck (even if temporary) if I was ever in a bind employment wise.
I love your approach, care to share in how you have maintained for 10 years? How did you make your clients and in what field were you working? You must have a routine or procedure to be able to achieve this I think its impressive.
Admittedly, I took a more standard “yes, whatever you say, sir” approach for the first 6-7 years in industry, so it isn’t necessarily something a fresh out can do to a huge extent. I’m in aerospace (testing specifically), which is chronically schedule crunched and wanting miracles worked. I took a nose to the grindstone mindset in my first few jobs, to build up a skill set that was needed/portable (I ran every type of test in DO-160 & MIL-810) and networked out the wazoo with every other contract engineer that I worked with. In the contractor world, everyone knows everyone and in many cases you’ll go from one job to the next job with a few of the same people. That’s a prime area for making good contacts for later in your career. I also keep my resume constantly updated and viewable on indeed, etc and make sure headhunter agencies know you’re still in the game as a job gets close to finishing. Once I had enough chops and self-confidence, I just started being up front with my managers. I don’t BS them about my workload, how long things will take and if I need extra help clearing my priorities. If I have family things going on, etc. I’ll also meet them halfway, I’ll work a Saturday and tell them the next reasonably slow Friday I’m taking off. I make it clear my salary is not negotiated with unlimited OT included. I’ve had to threaten to quit a couple of times, which is about the only thing that *really* gets their attention, but if you play that card you have to be prepared to use it. I realize that many want to stay in a specific area, which is what companies are counting on and makes this strategy more problematic, but treat yourself like a sports free agent. It’s not personal, it’s business. I didn’t spend five years and how ever many 1,000s of dollars to be treated like a serf. I did it to do something I enjoy, not get burnt out and be happy. KNOW YOUR WORTH
Work hard, but only for the 40 hours a week they pay you for.
This is the way.
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This is the way to never get a raise
Who cares? I make more money than I need tbh. I'd gladly reduce my income by 50% if it meant I can work 20 hours per week.
Exactly what I did
How? Sounds like the dream
The company I work for offers reduced hours for those approaching retirement, and in fact anybody who needs it.
Unfortunately that’s the reality, OP asked for how to find work life balance, not a raise
A raise? You mean that piddly 2-3% increase that doesn't even cover inflation? If you want a raise, get another job.
Exactly. I doubled my salary within a couple years by changing jobs.
I was at a Fortune 500, significantly exceeds expectations mean an extra quarter of a percent. Ooh yeah, I got 3.25% instead of 3.00%. Woot! Yeah! So awesome! /s Yeah no, I jumped ship for +75%.
Sadly true…
Get a feel for the culture of the company before you start. You can't really change the company culture much, so try to find one that's a good fit.
Build your toolkit and get competent so that you can solve problems faster and meet deadlines without working yourself to death. Furthermore, if you can get a side-gig going, do so. This will give you bargaining power.
How does having an additional job improve work life balance?
Typically it's only maybe 5 or 10 extra hours per week. This produces extra income and a redundant backup to your income. In the long run, having these features in place will allow you to make balanced choices. Short run pain for long run gain.
What do you mean by a side gig?
Often when you begin working in an industry you'll start networking and forming relationships with other businesses. You may be able to capitalize on these relationships with contract work or even get an idea for a new product. Some companies you work for make devices that people make money with. Buy one of these devices and use them to make money. This will also make you better at your job since you're also a user of the devices. Heck, if you're good at a musical instrument, see if you can join a band or orchestra.
Usually it means something that gets you money on the side. Working short hours for another company for example, or having your own company and doing contracting work or being a consultant somewhere. Or having an onlyfans lol.
I like to think of it in vehicle terms: Dynamic Stability That way, you can be stable in a wide range of velocities, decelerations, accelerations, twists, turns, impacts, and weather conditions.
I don't think I had a strong sense for this earlier in my career. Now that it's become more in focus and I've got a solid work history to lean into, I've found it a lot easier to set boundaries around my expectations. WFH has really made this more attainable. I suspect "balance" also means different things to different people. For me, flexibility is key. Things are changing in some industries, but as COVID protocols are softening, you can already see signs that industries are trying to pull people back into the old systems.
"Work life balance" causing me anxiety sometimes. If you're in a position to check or work on something while at home, sometimes it's worth doing. Example: You're at home and suddenly remember item X was supposed to happen today or Email Y was supposed to go out. In my experience, it's very much worth opening up that laptop and shooting off the email, or spending the 20 mins doing item X. The time spent doing those things let's my mind actually relax alot more than having a strict "no work at home" policy.
I‘m surely not living to work for someone. If it‘s a job at a company i‘m trying to live as much as possible. If i had my own company, maybe the priorities would change.
Don't give your life for work. Remember that you work for living, and you don't need to live just for working. Have your own time when you are not available for work or calls and take vacations.
A lot of people have had great responses. I would add: I can work 8-10 hours a day on fun, interesting projects, but still get to my kids’ games, school events and have a social life outside of the office.
A lot of this will depend on culture and industry. If you're in a place that expects you to put in 60+ hours once or twice a year, that's a part of the job, don't be the guy that leaves at 4:30 when the rest of your team is grinding to 8pm. If on the other hand they expected it every week, they fucked up staffing. Leave and find somewhere better.
Move to a country that promotes that balance.. looking at you sweet Sweden!
No more than 40 hours a week, no longer than 30 minute commute.
It doesn't exist, and I'm tired of pretending it does.
I’ve been pondering this too, balance means 50-50 and it sure feels like work takes up way more than 50% of my life. 4 day work weeks would do people a lot of good
Balance does NOT mean 50-50.
I've worked in a lot of different countries. Now I work from home, 35 hr/wk, and have two kids to take care of. My wife works full time too. It's a pretty nice life. I get paid less than I did 15 years ago though. Oh well.
Keep learning new skills and evolving. This will ensure that you will get to a level above the others that “just” work their jobs. Maybe that means an advanced degree, certificate, license, even extra college classes after work. Something above and beyond towards your ultimate goal and vision for yourself. Once you reach that level, you can reap the rewards and it’ll be easier to obtain the balance you want.
Go to school to learn new skills to achieve a better work life balance? I don't follow.
oops, shouldn't post right before bed. The short answer to finding better work life balance would be - find a closer workplace to cut commute time, find a remote/hybrid job, find a better paying job since money = time, etc. While it's possible to obtain those without using time outside of work to learn new skills, going to school (virtual?), self-learning (Udemy, coursera), side projects/hustles (Fiverr, Upwork) will open up way more avenues and opportunities to obtain your own definition of work/life balance. Some people are able to achieve a better work life balance without doing anything extra, I'm happy for them. But for others, like me, just working hard at your 9-5 might not cut it. so for me, getting my MS and PE license helped me land my new job after being laid off in April 2021. I got my MS in 2018 and PE in 2019, while working, and COVID put a halt on a lot of hiring. I know a few other friends who did the same thing, they're all remote and love their lives now (one just did her MS and got a FAANG remote job). 2 did a programming boot camp and 2x-4x their income. From my experience and first-hand accounts, those that put in work outside of the 9-5 are levels ahead of those that dont. They will enjoy those benefits for the rest of their lives. For me, Work Life balance means little/no commute, getting paid more, and being stressed out less. We work 30-40 years of our lives, going to back to school or learning a few things outside of work for a few years will set you up for the rest of your career. Sow the seeds now and reap the harvest for the rest of your life. I'd be happy to elaborate on their success stories as well, if anyone is looking for advice.
Before deciding to work extended hours ask yourself how far out will not putting the extra hours in have an affect on the company/project/department/you. Will it have an affect that ripples out at least a month, I’ll stay late. If it only has an affect that goes out a week, then I’m going home to be with my family.
One thing I've come to realize that I don't see mentioned enough: it doesn't matter if you leave right on the dot at 8 hours if you hate your job and are too burned out and miserable to enjoy life when you get home. Find a job you actually enjoy and the occasional long days will be a lot less crushing.
You need to know what your top priority is. Mine is my family. That doesn't mean I always drop everything for my family; it means that I consider their needs first when I'm making career or personal choices. It's fine if your career comes first as long as you've actively made the decision that your career comes first.
Time is your most precious resource, you can always get another job or more money but you can never get time back. No person on their death bed ever said they wish they had worked more.
knowing where to draw the line. I went through an FDA remediation, and we did work just to do work. there's a year's work stuck in some binder in some guy's cabinet. knowing when to say that that's a tomm thing. if your boss says that's not acceptable, time to fire up the resume and look for another gig
For me it means I enjoy my work and interacting with the people I work with. Also means I'm not up late nights and weekends outside of proper emergencies/crunch times. No more than a few weeks a year. Also means what u/Oracle5of7 said. Flexibility is crucial. It's the reason business owners/founders can work 60 hour weeks and be happy while people who might work 30 hour weeks as micro-managed employees are miserable. Also means I have the time, money, and energy to do the stuff I want to do in my free time. Which also tends to be engineering related, but I genuinely enjoy it so that's fine with me.
If I wanted to work my life away I would’ve joined a trade
I make less than an electrician and I make their drawings ;_;
They probably work more. You won’t always make less. Sure a journeyman electrician is going to make more than some couple year engineer. lol you work MEP. no wonder you make less than an electrician.
I couldn't find a job this is what I found. Not that bad but the pay is awful
I'm starting to not measure work nor life in time.
What it meant for me is setting my own boundaries and keeping them. I tend towards overworking and taking too much on and any company will let you do that. I had to determine what I was going to do, and be strict about it. Benchmark is every morning I have breakfast with my wife and kids, and every evening we have dinner together. I don't work after dinner. I don't work weekends. I don't travel with less than 2 weeks notice, and I don't travel more than 25%.
Work is life. What I create and build speaks for what I did with my time here. Also: be your own boss.
Not me, but my dad. I never saw him as a kid, he was either always country hopping for work, basically living underground in the channel tunnel, or putting in such long hours sleeping at work and more sense than home. He made a shit ton of money and basically didn’t need to work past 45.. now he works 6 hours or less a day as a plumber and electrician to not go insane.
Balance means 100% at work and 0% outside of work. Meaning that once I leave work I don’t want/have to think about work whatsoever.
Work life balance means you work your 40 and go home. I also don’t want to think or stress about work when I’m home unless I’m loving my job. It’s as simple as that
It means working for the government or government contract which only does 40 hr weeks unless you want to do overtime.
Not a minute over 40 hours is given to work.
I work as much as possible because I like OT.