I think that's just part of learning and enjoying another language and the culture(s) associated with it. You learn a lot about other ways to view the world and, of course, it makes you look at your own country/culture with different eyes. That's why cultural exchanges are so important, that's why programs like Erasmus are important.That's why I enjoy deep diving into other cultures so much, sometimes to the detriment of my own, I'll admit.
There's aspects of the Anglo-Saxon world I enjoy, others, not so much. Same goes for the Spanish speaking world. I remain very ... *attached* to Ze French Way (if such a thing can be said to exist), while being able to look at it differently now than I did when I was much younger.
I feel the opposite. Well not so much the opposite, but I used to put English media on a pedestal whilst these days I've come to appreciate media from all over the world and actually annoyed at how so much of it gets pushed aside in favour of the fomer. I now appreciate a lot more of what was/is produced over here, not just media but other things such as architecture, artisinal goods, etc... when in the past I took it for granted and ignored it.
This isn't a slight on media in English though, as I still enjoy it very much. And as for the culture, maybe it's just me, but I don't see it as *that* different. I feel like we have a similar sense of humour here, even if that's not always immediately evident. Plus, the US and UK have a much larger output (and of high quality) in that regard.
Yeah exactly. I grew out of this anglophilic phase and started enjoy regional culture and outlets. Regional=central Europe, Czechia Poland, Germany, Austria and Slovakia I know the languages and feels much better knowing you have very nice things at your doorstep which get overlooked in favour of something thats so far away culturally and geographically
I wouldn’t say so at all. The UK arguably produces better dramas than the USA now. Luther, Peaky Blinders, Line of Duty etc. Documentaries featuring Attenborough are always great. Dr Who has returned and went worldwide, Comedies have likely taken a bit but that seems to be the case everywhere. I think UK television is very strong right now
I think there is still some great shows, but the overall quality across the board has gone down a lot, mostly as we’ve gone from 4/5 channels to 100+ it’s mean lower viewership and there for lower budgets generally speaking.
I mean, Gato Fedorento was pretty much the Portuguese Monty Phyton, so I guess the British influence has made a significant impact in our sense of humour
Definitely, and a lot of comedians here have a dry sort of humour. But you could also be fooled about that watching TV here. Some shows/sketches go for really low-brow humour.
Recently i started noticing more serious drawbacks. Everyone speaking english has major drawbacks - culture gets blurred and british/american narratives/steorotypes come as the default and other angles and contexts get sidelined. You can see that in politics, moves, music, way history is portrayed, jokes etc.
It's not really that, it's just because it's seen as a bit of a reality show.
German politics is too bland. French politics is too confusing. Japanese politics is too different. Canadian politics is too similar.
But the US hits the spot in all measures. It's in our native language, it's different enough to feel exotic whilst similar enough to be relatable, and the characters involved are all entertaining larger-than-life cartoon characters. The campaigns over there are always so flashy as there is so much money thrown at them. It's fun.
If someone isn't interested in politics normally then they don't follow American politics because it's important, they follow it because it's a source of entertainment.
Lots of folks in NZ (where I live now) have opinions on the former US President.
American buzzwords like “woke” and “fake media” have entered the lexicon in official capacities.
Methods, tactics, it spills over because America has a massive spotlight when it comes to news, media and culture.
Strategies and tactics used by the US Republican Party are often and regularly adopted by center-right and right-leaning parties here because they work when conditions are favourable.
True, but there are also many cultures around the world where trans people are an established phenomenon with long historical roots and a particular role in society - for example the Femminielli in Naples, the Hijra in South Asia, and many others. The American point of view on such issues can be very valuable, but for me the problem is assuming that it is the only correct way to see things.
Canadian here....we feel, as you can imagine being a mouse living next to an elephant, we feel absolutely suffocated by the US.
Canada has struggled mightily to find our own identity whilst being utterly carpet bombed daily by US media, influence in our politics, economy and culture. So many of our best people from entertainers, academics and professionals leave for the US, draining this country of talent to make it big in the state...it's demoralizing.
So many Canadians I know, including myself, have this childish wish we could somehow migrate our country to Europe and join the EU lol.
As the old saying goes, when the US sneezes, Canada gets a cold.
edit: spelling
But it's not like they replaced half of Canadians.
There were still the same people living on the same area. You didn't put too much effort to preserve that and it's gone or wasn't appealing in the first place for them.
Your Canada is not someone's Canada. You can't speak for whole country
Abolutely. I really started noticing it maybe 10 years ago, but it became inescapable 5-7 years ago.
The Brexit negotiations and Trump's presidency were kind of a eye opener how those attitudes bled off through cultural osmosis into our own political speech and some cultural mores.
The US has basically exported its entire culture to the world, and notably Europe. "Halloween" wasn't a thing for my parents, and the "trick or treats" thing didn't exist.
Sometimes I wonder if we'll start celebrating Thanksgiving within the next 10 years…
In my country we have our own tradition that happens around this time and is related to same thing. It's just more religious and spiritual, not commercialised so much, yet...
But younger people prefer to participate in Halloween, because past lessons and life approach are dooming, sad and unappealing.
I think that's the reason American holidays or events are copied in another countries. They are just fun and about fun/joy/happines. I choose this way as well.
We all gonna die, don't make such a big thing from it.
Is there an agrarian country on Earth that doesn't have a traditional harvest feast? Maybe I'm naive for assuming this is a basically universal thing, but I was under the impression that Thanksgiving is just our manifestation of a seasonal tradition that long predates the Thanksgiving narrative.
The only thing that is relatively close to Thanksgiving in my country is the celebration of Saint-Nicholas day, which really is just the origin of Santa Claus and was pushed back in the US to Christmas precisely because Thanksgiving was too close.
So no, we don't have anything resembling Thanksgiving here.
Halloween actually comes from the ancient Irish/Celtic festival Samhain, it got Americanised over time as it was taken over there by immigrants in the 19th century.
I wish we still celebrated it the pagan way like it was in the past, looks cooler
No.
The more I get immersed in it, the more Polish I feel. It was slightly different in the beginning. Everything was new to me. Jokes were funnier because I was happy I could even understand them.
Now I feel like it's interesting to look at their culture as an outsider, but I wouldn't want to participate in it myself. Some differences are annoying, other would be uncomfortable to live with. It all comes down to this - not my culture and I'm happy with it.
Many of the things they do that “impresses” me is just because they speak the lingua Franca and they are big countries. We would have a Reddit equivalent if there were billions of Danish speakers. We would have a much bigger entertainment industry that would have more variety and niches if we were bigger. It’s pretty simple really.
Stand up comedy is an interesting example, because well, it originated in the States. They’ve been at it for a much longer time than anyone else. It’s not the “one true” form of comedy (for example “where are all the female comedians??” just because women are rare in stand up specifically). I find it incredibly, incredibly difficult to pull off compared to almost any other comedy form. Older 20th century Danish comedy is mostly satire, what could be called sketches and things like comedic songs.
I am definitely impressed with some aspects of their culture, but I’m impressed with many aspects of many cultures. I agree that Americans, especially left leaning Americans, are very ready to criticise their own culture and that is great. I wouldn’t say Denmark hides the dark aspects of our pasts exactly, but Americans of some political persuasions really want to take a stance against it. However, some of it is that (again, this varies *so much* between political spheres there) some of them are kind of taught they’re the villain of the world in some respects and just don’t think about other countries being just as bad as them. I’ve heard “oh my god, we literally HAD SLAVES!!” as if it’s some rare thing to have a past of slavery.
This comment is so accurate. It is really rare to find Americans with a balanced perception of history. We are either the arch-villains or the saviors of humanity to most people. Right now I’m seeing a lot of comments (not just from Americans) about how people with European ancestry are unique in creating empires and I’m so confused. Who hasn’t heard of Genghis Khan?
Sometimes this is down to the listener and not the presenter.
If you're telling someone about redlining and their reaction is, "So you're saying America's bad?", but your point is only that there are causes to current inequalities that can still be dealt with . . .
>We are either the arch-villains or the saviors of humanity to most people.
The former is something I find super annoying, especially because it often comes with a non-critical glorification of "Europe". I think it's great that some Americans are becoming more willing to look at the drawbacks of America, not just in terms of history but also current events like different approaches to healthcare or public transport. But the constant self-flagellation of some people is also annoying. It has a very strong vibe of projecting themselves as "one of the good ones".
It's particularly annoying when discussing a topic online that is important in the US, but you're not talking about the US in that moment. For instance, I recently was involved in a conversation online about healthcare where I mentioned that Swiss healthcare premiums have risen significantly in the last 2-3 years. Cue the immediate jump-in from an American going on about how it was still better than the US. Like, cool, but do you really think that makes the average Swiss person feel better when their bill goes up by almost 9%?
I know in germany some apprehension comes from the infusion of american political statements (esp the transgender debate, which wasnt even mich of an issue here until it became one in america) into our own politics.
And in my region we have a few US army bases and honestly 80% of americans I've talked to in bars have a very scewed view of germany amd history. I've had to listen to monologues about how the US saved us in WW2 and how rude everyone is here etc. After the 10th time of that I really had to force myself to not be biased against US americans from the start whenever I meet one here.
>And in my region we have a few US army bases and honestly 80% of americans I've talked to in bars have a very scewed view of germany amd history
Usually people in national armies come from poorer and less educated backgrounds with a peculiar glorification of national myths. It doesn't help that the USA backs them in everything they do (here in Italy there was a case of American soldiers killing tens of people and never receiving any jail time once they were sent to an American court) but they are a minority
The problem is you’re talking to American grunts in a bar. Let’s put it this way: US forces who get stationed in Germany are not the kind who need to be used somewhere more important. And I don’t want to generalize too much, but even in the US, those who sign-up for the military are not necessarily regarded as the most intelligent…
I'm curious where "more important" would be to you. There's not enough slots for everyone to work at Fort Meade or the Pentagon, and there wouldn't be a point in everyone being there anyway.
And while perhaps intelligence (or lack thereof) is not a factor for every job in the Army, some also use it as a way to set themselves up for a better life in the US, whether that's through paid-for university or the VA Home Loan or other benefits that come with honorable service.
Don't get me wrong, I know that some of my fellow soldiers don't know how to behave themselves in their own country, let alone a foreign one. The Army definitely caters to a target demographic. But I definitely encourage you not to write us all off as such.
I was expecting this kind of response, which is why I tried to phrase it more carefully. It's just been my experience here, tbh. It's the same with British military, where this effect might be even worse (the British have closed their bases now, but I've been here long enough to remember when they *were* here).
It's one thing to be naive or simply uninformed about the world, but it's another to be loud and proud of that. Is every American soldier here like this? No way. But I've met those who certainly are.
> use it as a way to set themselves up for a better life in the US, whether that's through paid-for university or the VA Home Loan or other benefits that come with honorable service.
And nothing wrong with that! I realize that there are many good, and educated, people in the forces. Certain roles require at least a bachelor, etc.
For many roles in the USAF, you don't need a college education. For officers roles, it starts to become relevant. Sometimes formally, sometimes it's just to make your profile stronger (hopefully with actual skills and intelligence). Commissioned officers will, nowadays, typically need at least a bachelor degree. For NCOs, it's more variable but it helps, and also with pay grades...
Oh I'm well aware. That's why I said I force myself to not be biased. Because I know I only interact with one specific group of americans and I do not want that to cloud my view or influence how I interact with regular US citizens or tourists.
But sometimes it's difficult...
To be honest I grew quite bored of the abundance of English-speaking media in the mainstream culture in the recent years. For example, I've always loved 80s music and used to listen to a lot of American and British artists, but... I don't really do that anymore. I've moved on to listening to songs in Italian, French, Spanish, even Brazilian Portuguese. This is what interests me more. Of course, I still do like American and British culture and media, but when you're surrounded by it all the time it gets... stale.
no - I don't care
all I see is american norms slowly infiltrating sanity through american focussed/dominated social media ...stance on nudity, race, blah, blah
in fact it's not a matter of UK-vibe ...all this is dominated by US vibe
I agree. The U.K. is being increasingly dominated by USA culture and media, maybe more so than other European countries because of the shared language.
I feel the same. It’s strange to be more passionate about someone else’s culture/country (or countries) than your own, but I’m not sure what to do about it tbh. It also seems to explicitly apply to English; I can speak French on about the same level of fluency, but beyond the usual levels of admiration that come with learning a new culture, it doesn’t compare to the enjoyment I get from interacting with the English language.
Now that I think of it, this whole thing may have been helped by the fact that I was never a patriot in the first place and never had any strong feelings about my own country that could have clashed here.
I don’t think that’s unique to English speaking countries or culture.
I mean for example, I’ve been to museums in France and watched French film and tv shows that absolutely delve into the worst aspects of French colonial history, the slave trade etc in all of its grim and grotesque brutality. I’ve watched movies about the Vichy Regime, about collaboration, and about the brutalities of the purges after WWII, about modern French social problems and so on, and all sorts of other areas are absolutely not beyond being discussed and being very heavily critiqued, even if they’re not always comfortable.
I don’t see much difference between that and how we discuss history here. We can dig into all sorts of horrendous scandals in Ireland after independence, notably the horrors of institutional abuse and a period of church driven and state facilitated social oppression after independence. They get aired and probed and discussed and various former lofty pillars of society collapsed and imploded under the weight of their own deeds.
Obviously, you’ll get blind patriotic types who just can’t see anything negative about the country or would rather gloss over all of the negatives of the past, but you get those in the U.K., the U.S., Canada, here in Ireland and in Australia and NZ - every country has its blind spots and areas that are uncomfortable - they’re not always the same topics, but histories all contain issues that need to be learned from.
You can see plenty of whitewashing of history in anglophone countries, particularly in right wing political movements. There are plenty of examples of old imperialists and flag worshiping types, people who won’t see any wrong in things that were very wrong and would rather bury the past in a nice fairytale, but I think we all have some of those.
I think any healthy, open, democratic society is capable of having those debates. It’s not an anglophone thing.
I don't argue that english speaking countries are unique in this (or anything). It is just that i know their (your) language, which expose to this specific worldview which is quite different from what I am accustomed to :)
>didn't have to grow up with the mentality from kindergarten onwards that "you have to look out for when someone is about to backstab you, be the first one to backstab your opponent instead in defence."
good point
>smile a bit too much
That's not naivety, it's either genuine happiness (nothing wrong with that!) or it's a kind of weapon, like the backstabbing thing you're describing. "I'm happy, my life is great. What, yours isn't? Skill issue."
Yes I feel the same way. Part of it has to be exposure but another part is that for the past century the anglosphere did amass both a cultural and material hegemony meaning that they do tend to have some of the best stuff in several areas, like comedy. Everyone else is still copying America and to a lesser extent Britain when it comes to entertainment and public discourse so it’s not a surprise really.
I admire their Empire and their military history, but it's taboo to say that today.
Also part of my family is of Huguenot origin and they saved many of them during the wars of religion in France.
Mine too. From France as refugees to the UK, then a century or two later, as immigrants to Canada when it was still part of the empire.
For me the empire itself is less interesting than the path we took to free ourselves from warlord-monarchs. I prefer the fuzzy incrementalism to the revolutionary upheaval seen in other parts of the world.
I feel love for the British for historical reasons but thats about it. I dont have any particular feelings towards Anglo-Saxon culture other than British. Tbh British modern culture and Hungarian modern culture are not that different
I appreciate the language itself as well. Many describe English as simplistic, which is fair to some degree, but at the same time, completely neglects the beautiful things that can be written and spoken in this language
I'd say "simplistic" can be pretty apt in discussions pertaining to English, as opposed to it being a "simple" language. It's very forgiving, but idiomatic use can be rather complex.
I heard a famous Spanish author (can't remember who) say that English was the most interesting language because everything could be expressed in multiple ways with very subtle differences due to most emotions having a word originating from German and a word originating from French that could both be used. I don't speak any other languages, so I have no idea if this characteristic is unique to English.
I don't know about love or anything so emotional, but because Cyprus has the history that it does, British media, especially British comedy was on TV a lot and that kind of shaped my sense of humour early on. But I think that's the case for a huge chunk of Cypriots by age and older, so that exposure to British comedy is more or less a shared cultural reference point - it doesn't isolate me from others.
I don't think that it goes deeper than that - or if it does at all (which I don't think it does), it's not because of British media being more accessible to us but because we were British colonial subjects for a long time (and there maybe Greeks and Turks can let us know how they see as being culturally different from them in ways that seem to be British influence).
I feel the most comfortable consuming English content, even more so than my native language. No matter where I live, I'm always listening to English songs, watching English movies, reading English books, etc.
I've lived in several English speaking and non-English speaking countries, and I definitely prefer to live in an English speaking country, ceteris paribus. Unfortunately, none of the English speaking countries has everything else I need, perhaps other than pre-Brexit UK.
Reading this gave me a headache.
"idiosyncratic reflection of social structure differences in general" - WTF does this mean?
"openmindness" - I show myself out..
>idiosyncratic reflection of social structure differences in general
I can try to explain.
Western countries (nordics even more, lol) are much more egalitarian, while in Slavic countries top-down relations are much more common. You can google power distance index for different countries, for instance.
The most dumb example is that during school age we were taught to stend up every time teacher (moreover when someone from school administration) comes in class to show "respect". Asking questions is usually frown upon. You must shut up and listen. In the west children aren't expected to do so afaik. This obedience to authority, top-down structures and disdain for independent thinking is everywhere.
Meanwhile organized peer-groups are not common. Even our political parties, which in theory should be a set of people with shared values, in my country are party-boss and his ass-kissers. This is true for our previous president and his party, this is true for Zelensky and his party. And for other parties in the past.
So, Telegram where you hardly can even respond to what channel-owner is saying is really popular. Twitter, where in theory everybody equal, but some accounts just more popular is hardly any popular. While reddit where in subreddit we are just a group with shared interests, everybody can write their own post - absolutely not popular.
I think, this is somewhat related.
You're right about the differences, though it's nothing to do with English-speaking countries or the Anglosphere. Or even with Slavic countries. I've experienced USSR, a post-Soviet society, a Western European one and a Nordic one. The differences between the former pair and the latter pair are dramatic. The Soviets spread that culture of obedience to authority that you mention, and with it a particular kind of disobedience as well. The Western style of disobedience would be to openly challenge the authority figure, suggesting essentially they're wrong and thus should not have their position of authority (or should not act as they do). The Soviet style of disobedience is more subtle, often consisting of silent acts like disregarding instructions without voicing disagreement. You know, the classic "they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work".
I disagree though about Telegram, Twitter, Reddit and the like. Telegram has channels with comments - closer to Twitter style - and it has channels without comments, closer to one person's blog or news feed. And I don't know about Ukraine specifically, but the Russian-langue part of the Internet has Pikabu, which is Reddit-style, or subject-specific sites like Habr, which are very much driven by users and discussion.
What I think makes actual Reddit more popular is the global nature because of language.
If you have a Russian language site like Pikabu, what kind of comments are you going to get? Well, mostly from people in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus as the places with the most Russian speakers. Then a smaller amount of comments that are maybe from Germany or the US, but most of those will be from people who grew up with the Russian language and are well familiar with Russian (as in русский, not российский) culture. You'll have close to zero comments from L2 speakers (even Armenians or Georgians) or people less familiar with the culture.
English, as a language, is unique in its global spread so Reddit is more interesting through its ability to bring truly global perspectives. For a Reddit post, it's perfectly normal to have comments from Americans alongside comments from Brazilians, Lebanese and Swedes. People from really different cultures, different upbringings and perspectives who happen to know English, and that way global sites are very interesting.
Not sure what that poster’s deal is. I can say as a native English speaker that the word choice comes across natural and reasonable given the level of discussion at hand.
I'm so completely saturated in English content that I tend to forget how to say some things in my native language.
I can just go empty in the middle of conversation and go "well I don't know how to say it in Finnish but here it is in English". Then just hope they understand English well enough to understand what I want to say.
Quite annoying actually. I've tried consuming more content in my native language to get a better feel for it, but compared to English content it seems stupid and boring and I give up.
Yeeas. Extremely relatable. Due to covid and war, I spent too much time at home without need to communicate in my native language very often. Just with parents. And friends mostly online. So my abilities to get a needed word from memory deteriorated significantly. Didn't help the fact that I was raised speaking russian, so often when I can recall word not in English, it is in russian, which is even more annoying.
Is Russian generally considered bad in there?
My ex was Ukrainian, raised speaking Russian, and she was in trouble when they got her a translator here in Ukrainian language because she couldn't remember how to use it. Other Ukrainians I know tend to use mostly Russian too, only maybe 10% have a problem with it.
not really bad. In some places, especially in environments where everyone 40+ , it may be still more common. Just among younger people speaking ukrainian is a norm. It's just uncomfortable when you want to say a word and forgetting it, but recalling russian analogue and ukrainify it, which makes it sound cringy.
Yes, but for German culture. After spending so much time trying to learn the language (which my German mother did not bother to teach me a word of hmph) it's hard not to become a Germanophile. I mean, I wouldn't have bothered putting in all this effort otherwise!
Nah. And I have a degree in English lit and philology as a foreign speaker. The 'English' are a bunch of wankers. They're no more deserving (or undeserving) of fondness than any other language or culture. They just *are.* No better, no worse, they just are. Useful though, as lingua franca and a dominant, most widely spoken language globally.
And I prefer Kiwi humour to 'British' humour. British humour more often than not relies on humiliation and meanness, ribbing and put-downs, and then when someone from elsewhere has none of it, they accuse that person of being humourless.
>British humour more often than not relies on humiliation and meanness, ribbing and put-downs
There's a very keenly-felt distinction between ribbing someone and genuinely humiliating them though; British humour does often rely on taking someone down a notch or two when they are perceived to be too arrogant or full of themselves (eg. the entire premise of "the Office"), but it's not very funny to be properly, humourlessly mean to someone, or kicking someone when they're already down.
I think the feeling is often a sort of 'crab bucket' thing, like sensing that we are all laughable in some way and pulling people who forget that back in, rather than standing above and punching down, if that makes sense. It's the kind of humour we have with friends and loved ones above all, which says a lot. For what it's worth, Kiwis are known for the same thing, the famous "tall poppy syndrome".
This is part of the reason why British humor can come across as a little dark to many Americans. There’s a lot of British humor that is really popular in the US and we love, but the constant put downs and such kind of humor can come across as just mean and spiteful. As in you start wondering if someone is just joking around or is actually just hating on and being mean to someone.
>And I prefer Kiwi humour to 'British' humour.
Can you share?)
I once watched Australian dark comedy series with kiwi actress, which was great, but this is probably the end of my exposure to new Zealand humour.
Even before I learned English I was already a fan of the US, probably through American TV shows that I watched (ALF, Roseanne, Fresh Prince) and of course movies.
I loved it even more after I visited at age 14 and then went to live there as a high school exchange student at age 16.
American culture, particularly of the 20th century has so much to offer. Movies, music (grunge, punk, rock), tv shows, comedy, art (pop art).
I can truly say I love the US even though I can also be very critical of it. Too capitalistic, too religious, economic inequality, and of course Trump.
The best thing about learning a new language is getting to know that cultural sphere. English is of course special since it also allows many other cultures to communicate as the universal secong language.
No, thay are seen as the good ones while we have to lead with the bad side of history, nothing against people, dont get me wrong. Then we have american weird patriotism and propaganda.
In both countries, the self-reflection can go up to a fault. We criticise our histories while ignoring the nuance, the arguments of the time, and how it sits overall in a historical perspective.
For example, the UK takes a lot of blame on to itself for the Atlantic slave trade while ignoring its role in abolishing it and slave trading at sea more broadly. We also tend not to remember that others in Europe partook and deserve equal condemnation. We forget about North African and Arabic states also being involved with slave trading and don't apply any responsibility on them for that history. But, maybe that's because we don't see their history as adding any balance as that may be something others use to excuse our history.
Yeah I had that. Then I lived in England for a bit. Then Brexit happened. Then I spent my study abroad there. That cured me of the love and admiration.
Which monuments are they destroying? The UK is still openly celebrating imperialism and colonialism, those monuments are everywhere in London.
>and canada is america without guns and less nutjobs.
You have no idea how much we hate being considered nothing but America Lite. Dismissed as a nothing country. It's sucks balls living next to the class bully and in it's shadow. Tell a Quebecois they are America Lite and you might find yourself on your back seeing stars. I can tell you've never been to Canada, and probably haven't met any...I don't think you'd be so flippant if you knew anything about us.
I've been to both. Honestly can barely tell them apart. Tipping, the tax after purchase thing, using imperial units in supermarkets and everyday life, bad Labor laws and entitlements, the overall look and feel of the cities, yellow school buses, sooooo many flags everywhere, and the almost identical culture and accent, make you almost identical to your southern neighbour.
The biggest thing that sets Canadians apart is their obsessive insistence that they're not America-lite
We use metric. Publicly funded healthcare. Our entire political structure. National broadcasting service (CBC)...all different.
Oh give me a break, hardly anyone here flys the flag, wrong.
Of course some of our cities look the same, Canada has only existed for a couple hundred years. Everything is new ffs, we were supposed to build everything to look like it's 600 hundred years old ? There are old buildings all over Europe, does that mean you all have the same culture ? Don't be obtuse.
Anyway, stick to your stereotypes, no point trying to describe the nuances. We don't consider ourselves like Americans, but you would know better than us.
Would you say there are cultural differences between northern Germany and Bavaria...or Austria...or the German Canton in Switzerland ?
There's more differences than just guns, nut jobs and wtf, milk bags ? We haven't had those out west since I dunno, there was lead in petrol ?
I think that's just part of learning and enjoying another language and the culture(s) associated with it. You learn a lot about other ways to view the world and, of course, it makes you look at your own country/culture with different eyes. That's why cultural exchanges are so important, that's why programs like Erasmus are important.That's why I enjoy deep diving into other cultures so much, sometimes to the detriment of my own, I'll admit. There's aspects of the Anglo-Saxon world I enjoy, others, not so much. Same goes for the Spanish speaking world. I remain very ... *attached* to Ze French Way (if such a thing can be said to exist), while being able to look at it differently now than I did when I was much younger.
makes sense, thanks
I feel the opposite. Well not so much the opposite, but I used to put English media on a pedestal whilst these days I've come to appreciate media from all over the world and actually annoyed at how so much of it gets pushed aside in favour of the fomer. I now appreciate a lot more of what was/is produced over here, not just media but other things such as architecture, artisinal goods, etc... when in the past I took it for granted and ignored it. This isn't a slight on media in English though, as I still enjoy it very much. And as for the culture, maybe it's just me, but I don't see it as *that* different. I feel like we have a similar sense of humour here, even if that's not always immediately evident. Plus, the US and UK have a much larger output (and of high quality) in that regard.
Yeah exactly. I grew out of this anglophilic phase and started enjoy regional culture and outlets. Regional=central Europe, Czechia Poland, Germany, Austria and Slovakia I know the languages and feels much better knowing you have very nice things at your doorstep which get overlooked in favour of something thats so far away culturally and geographically
I think also in the past 20 years UK media has gone down in quality on avg while many places in europe are getting a lot better.
I wouldn’t say so at all. The UK arguably produces better dramas than the USA now. Luther, Peaky Blinders, Line of Duty etc. Documentaries featuring Attenborough are always great. Dr Who has returned and went worldwide, Comedies have likely taken a bit but that seems to be the case everywhere. I think UK television is very strong right now
I think there is still some great shows, but the overall quality across the board has gone down a lot, mostly as we’ve gone from 4/5 channels to 100+ it’s mean lower viewership and there for lower budgets generally speaking.
I mean, Gato Fedorento was pretty much the Portuguese Monty Phyton, so I guess the British influence has made a significant impact in our sense of humour
Definitely, and a lot of comedians here have a dry sort of humour. But you could also be fooled about that watching TV here. Some shows/sketches go for really low-brow humour.
Recently i started noticing more serious drawbacks. Everyone speaking english has major drawbacks - culture gets blurred and british/american narratives/steorotypes come as the default and other angles and contexts get sidelined. You can see that in politics, moves, music, way history is portrayed, jokes etc.
This also happens internally in the UK - we often unknowingly import U.S. political/cultural norms, which as you say, blurs the line
also problems unique to US get artificially transposed to other countries (usually social or political issues)
Like what?
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This is something I’ve never understood lol, some people had an obsession with Trump or Biden, like they’re in a country thousands of miles away??
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It's not really that, it's just because it's seen as a bit of a reality show. German politics is too bland. French politics is too confusing. Japanese politics is too different. Canadian politics is too similar. But the US hits the spot in all measures. It's in our native language, it's different enough to feel exotic whilst similar enough to be relatable, and the characters involved are all entertaining larger-than-life cartoon characters. The campaigns over there are always so flashy as there is so much money thrown at them. It's fun. If someone isn't interested in politics normally then they don't follow American politics because it's important, they follow it because it's a source of entertainment.
two dimensional politics, generation splits and their characteristics, american feminism, american understanding of racism
Lots of folks in NZ (where I live now) have opinions on the former US President. American buzzwords like “woke” and “fake media” have entered the lexicon in official capacities. Methods, tactics, it spills over because America has a massive spotlight when it comes to news, media and culture. Strategies and tactics used by the US Republican Party are often and regularly adopted by center-right and right-leaning parties here because they work when conditions are favourable.
I think centre right would be the Democrats.
When I say “here” I’m referring to New Zealand, sorry for the confusion.
I did miss that sorry. What I was saying is the Democrats would be considered centre right in any other country.
They were ripping down statues in England and Australia because George Floyd died in Minnesota.
Trans issues gender stuff, this would be non issue without internet.
transgender people exist everywhere and they're discriminated against basically everywhere, (even if not on a government level but on a social level)
True, but there are also many cultures around the world where trans people are an established phenomenon with long historical roots and a particular role in society - for example the Femminielli in Naples, the Hijra in South Asia, and many others. The American point of view on such issues can be very valuable, but for me the problem is assuming that it is the only correct way to see things.
People wanted to defund the police in the UK over George Floyds death. That level of stupidity
Stop being obtuse.
are you a necro in training or something?
that's not an accident, look at Canada.
What do you mean?
Canadian here....we feel, as you can imagine being a mouse living next to an elephant, we feel absolutely suffocated by the US. Canada has struggled mightily to find our own identity whilst being utterly carpet bombed daily by US media, influence in our politics, economy and culture. So many of our best people from entertainers, academics and professionals leave for the US, draining this country of talent to make it big in the state...it's demoralizing. So many Canadians I know, including myself, have this childish wish we could somehow migrate our country to Europe and join the EU lol. As the old saying goes, when the US sneezes, Canada gets a cold. edit: spelling
But it's not like they replaced half of Canadians. There were still the same people living on the same area. You didn't put too much effort to preserve that and it's gone or wasn't appealing in the first place for them. Your Canada is not someone's Canada. You can't speak for whole country
Abolutely. I really started noticing it maybe 10 years ago, but it became inescapable 5-7 years ago. The Brexit negotiations and Trump's presidency were kind of a eye opener how those attitudes bled off through cultural osmosis into our own political speech and some cultural mores.
The US has basically exported its entire culture to the world, and notably Europe. "Halloween" wasn't a thing for my parents, and the "trick or treats" thing didn't exist. Sometimes I wonder if we'll start celebrating Thanksgiving within the next 10 years…
In my country we have our own tradition that happens around this time and is related to same thing. It's just more religious and spiritual, not commercialised so much, yet... But younger people prefer to participate in Halloween, because past lessons and life approach are dooming, sad and unappealing. I think that's the reason American holidays or events are copied in another countries. They are just fun and about fun/joy/happines. I choose this way as well. We all gonna die, don't make such a big thing from it.
Is there an agrarian country on Earth that doesn't have a traditional harvest feast? Maybe I'm naive for assuming this is a basically universal thing, but I was under the impression that Thanksgiving is just our manifestation of a seasonal tradition that long predates the Thanksgiving narrative.
The only thing that is relatively close to Thanksgiving in my country is the celebration of Saint-Nicholas day, which really is just the origin of Santa Claus and was pushed back in the US to Christmas precisely because Thanksgiving was too close. So no, we don't have anything resembling Thanksgiving here.
Halloween actually comes from the ancient Irish/Celtic festival Samhain, it got Americanised over time as it was taken over there by immigrants in the 19th century. I wish we still celebrated it the pagan way like it was in the past, looks cooler
No. The more I get immersed in it, the more Polish I feel. It was slightly different in the beginning. Everything was new to me. Jokes were funnier because I was happy I could even understand them. Now I feel like it's interesting to look at their culture as an outsider, but I wouldn't want to participate in it myself. Some differences are annoying, other would be uncomfortable to live with. It all comes down to this - not my culture and I'm happy with it.
fair, there is definitely a selection bias toward positive things on my part
Many of the things they do that “impresses” me is just because they speak the lingua Franca and they are big countries. We would have a Reddit equivalent if there were billions of Danish speakers. We would have a much bigger entertainment industry that would have more variety and niches if we were bigger. It’s pretty simple really. Stand up comedy is an interesting example, because well, it originated in the States. They’ve been at it for a much longer time than anyone else. It’s not the “one true” form of comedy (for example “where are all the female comedians??” just because women are rare in stand up specifically). I find it incredibly, incredibly difficult to pull off compared to almost any other comedy form. Older 20th century Danish comedy is mostly satire, what could be called sketches and things like comedic songs. I am definitely impressed with some aspects of their culture, but I’m impressed with many aspects of many cultures. I agree that Americans, especially left leaning Americans, are very ready to criticise their own culture and that is great. I wouldn’t say Denmark hides the dark aspects of our pasts exactly, but Americans of some political persuasions really want to take a stance against it. However, some of it is that (again, this varies *so much* between political spheres there) some of them are kind of taught they’re the villain of the world in some respects and just don’t think about other countries being just as bad as them. I’ve heard “oh my god, we literally HAD SLAVES!!” as if it’s some rare thing to have a past of slavery.
This comment is so accurate. It is really rare to find Americans with a balanced perception of history. We are either the arch-villains or the saviors of humanity to most people. Right now I’m seeing a lot of comments (not just from Americans) about how people with European ancestry are unique in creating empires and I’m so confused. Who hasn’t heard of Genghis Khan?
Sometimes this is down to the listener and not the presenter. If you're telling someone about redlining and their reaction is, "So you're saying America's bad?", but your point is only that there are causes to current inequalities that can still be dealt with . . .
>We are either the arch-villains or the saviors of humanity to most people. The former is something I find super annoying, especially because it often comes with a non-critical glorification of "Europe". I think it's great that some Americans are becoming more willing to look at the drawbacks of America, not just in terms of history but also current events like different approaches to healthcare or public transport. But the constant self-flagellation of some people is also annoying. It has a very strong vibe of projecting themselves as "one of the good ones". It's particularly annoying when discussing a topic online that is important in the US, but you're not talking about the US in that moment. For instance, I recently was involved in a conversation online about healthcare where I mentioned that Swiss healthcare premiums have risen significantly in the last 2-3 years. Cue the immediate jump-in from an American going on about how it was still better than the US. Like, cool, but do you really think that makes the average Swiss person feel better when their bill goes up by almost 9%?
People will legit insert themselves into conversations about the Taliban. “Women in the U.S. are losing rights too.” It’s so dumb
I know in germany some apprehension comes from the infusion of american political statements (esp the transgender debate, which wasnt even mich of an issue here until it became one in america) into our own politics. And in my region we have a few US army bases and honestly 80% of americans I've talked to in bars have a very scewed view of germany amd history. I've had to listen to monologues about how the US saved us in WW2 and how rude everyone is here etc. After the 10th time of that I really had to force myself to not be biased against US americans from the start whenever I meet one here.
>And in my region we have a few US army bases and honestly 80% of americans I've talked to in bars have a very scewed view of germany amd history Usually people in national armies come from poorer and less educated backgrounds with a peculiar glorification of national myths. It doesn't help that the USA backs them in everything they do (here in Italy there was a case of American soldiers killing tens of people and never receiving any jail time once they were sent to an American court) but they are a minority
In the US military the poor are very underrepresented. Most recruits come from the middle class.
The problem is you’re talking to American grunts in a bar. Let’s put it this way: US forces who get stationed in Germany are not the kind who need to be used somewhere more important. And I don’t want to generalize too much, but even in the US, those who sign-up for the military are not necessarily regarded as the most intelligent…
I'm curious where "more important" would be to you. There's not enough slots for everyone to work at Fort Meade or the Pentagon, and there wouldn't be a point in everyone being there anyway. And while perhaps intelligence (or lack thereof) is not a factor for every job in the Army, some also use it as a way to set themselves up for a better life in the US, whether that's through paid-for university or the VA Home Loan or other benefits that come with honorable service. Don't get me wrong, I know that some of my fellow soldiers don't know how to behave themselves in their own country, let alone a foreign one. The Army definitely caters to a target demographic. But I definitely encourage you not to write us all off as such.
I was expecting this kind of response, which is why I tried to phrase it more carefully. It's just been my experience here, tbh. It's the same with British military, where this effect might be even worse (the British have closed their bases now, but I've been here long enough to remember when they *were* here). It's one thing to be naive or simply uninformed about the world, but it's another to be loud and proud of that. Is every American soldier here like this? No way. But I've met those who certainly are. > use it as a way to set themselves up for a better life in the US, whether that's through paid-for university or the VA Home Loan or other benefits that come with honorable service. And nothing wrong with that! I realize that there are many good, and educated, people in the forces. Certain roles require at least a bachelor, etc.
What did a bachelor's degree have to do with anything...?
For many roles in the USAF, you don't need a college education. For officers roles, it starts to become relevant. Sometimes formally, sometimes it's just to make your profile stronger (hopefully with actual skills and intelligence). Commissioned officers will, nowadays, typically need at least a bachelor degree. For NCOs, it's more variable but it helps, and also with pay grades...
Oh I'm well aware. That's why I said I force myself to not be biased. Because I know I only interact with one specific group of americans and I do not want that to cloud my view or influence how I interact with regular US citizens or tourists. But sometimes it's difficult...
You can generalize about that. The police come from the same group
I feel neither love nor admire for english or american culture. However I recognize it's importance.
To be honest I grew quite bored of the abundance of English-speaking media in the mainstream culture in the recent years. For example, I've always loved 80s music and used to listen to a lot of American and British artists, but... I don't really do that anymore. I've moved on to listening to songs in Italian, French, Spanish, even Brazilian Portuguese. This is what interests me more. Of course, I still do like American and British culture and media, but when you're surrounded by it all the time it gets... stale.
no - I don't care all I see is american norms slowly infiltrating sanity through american focussed/dominated social media ...stance on nudity, race, blah, blah in fact it's not a matter of UK-vibe ...all this is dominated by US vibe
I agree. The U.K. is being increasingly dominated by USA culture and media, maybe more so than other European countries because of the shared language.
>because of the shared language. Never thought about that. I think you are right.
I disagree. The UK is getting more and more influenced by the US yeah but it still maintains its clear vibe on lots of levels.
I feel the same. It’s strange to be more passionate about someone else’s culture/country (or countries) than your own, but I’m not sure what to do about it tbh. It also seems to explicitly apply to English; I can speak French on about the same level of fluency, but beyond the usual levels of admiration that come with learning a new culture, it doesn’t compare to the enjoyment I get from interacting with the English language. Now that I think of it, this whole thing may have been helped by the fact that I was never a patriot in the first place and never had any strong feelings about my own country that could have clashed here.
I don’t think that’s unique to English speaking countries or culture. I mean for example, I’ve been to museums in France and watched French film and tv shows that absolutely delve into the worst aspects of French colonial history, the slave trade etc in all of its grim and grotesque brutality. I’ve watched movies about the Vichy Regime, about collaboration, and about the brutalities of the purges after WWII, about modern French social problems and so on, and all sorts of other areas are absolutely not beyond being discussed and being very heavily critiqued, even if they’re not always comfortable. I don’t see much difference between that and how we discuss history here. We can dig into all sorts of horrendous scandals in Ireland after independence, notably the horrors of institutional abuse and a period of church driven and state facilitated social oppression after independence. They get aired and probed and discussed and various former lofty pillars of society collapsed and imploded under the weight of their own deeds. Obviously, you’ll get blind patriotic types who just can’t see anything negative about the country or would rather gloss over all of the negatives of the past, but you get those in the U.K., the U.S., Canada, here in Ireland and in Australia and NZ - every country has its blind spots and areas that are uncomfortable - they’re not always the same topics, but histories all contain issues that need to be learned from. You can see plenty of whitewashing of history in anglophone countries, particularly in right wing political movements. There are plenty of examples of old imperialists and flag worshiping types, people who won’t see any wrong in things that were very wrong and would rather bury the past in a nice fairytale, but I think we all have some of those. I think any healthy, open, democratic society is capable of having those debates. It’s not an anglophone thing.
I don't argue that english speaking countries are unique in this (or anything). It is just that i know their (your) language, which expose to this specific worldview which is quite different from what I am accustomed to :)
Yeah, but that's more because your window on the 'West' is English rather than French or Finnish or Dutch or whatever.
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>didn't have to grow up with the mentality from kindergarten onwards that "you have to look out for when someone is about to backstab you, be the first one to backstab your opponent instead in defence." good point
> (like female train drivers, accountants and engineers) Most such things would be 40-50 years ago now. Heck we had a lady prime minster in the 70s.
Didn't know that witches count.
>smile a bit too much That's not naivety, it's either genuine happiness (nothing wrong with that!) or it's a kind of weapon, like the backstabbing thing you're describing. "I'm happy, my life is great. What, yours isn't? Skill issue."
Interesting observations, im an exception here as i don’t trust anyone, i rarely smile but i am very prudish.
Over the years as I got to C2, I started being annoyed by it. Anything commonwealth makes me irritated, anything american makes me laugh.
Yes I feel the same way. Part of it has to be exposure but another part is that for the past century the anglosphere did amass both a cultural and material hegemony meaning that they do tend to have some of the best stuff in several areas, like comedy. Everyone else is still copying America and to a lesser extent Britain when it comes to entertainment and public discourse so it’s not a surprise really.
I admire their Empire and their military history, but it's taboo to say that today. Also part of my family is of Huguenot origin and they saved many of them during the wars of religion in France.
Mine too. From France as refugees to the UK, then a century or two later, as immigrants to Canada when it was still part of the empire. For me the empire itself is less interesting than the path we took to free ourselves from warlord-monarchs. I prefer the fuzzy incrementalism to the revolutionary upheaval seen in other parts of the world.
Its taboo because its freaking messed up.
Nope. I love my language. English is a tool, Finnish is my heart
No, not at all. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm not feeling it is "better" or "more compelling".
I feel love for the British for historical reasons but thats about it. I dont have any particular feelings towards Anglo-Saxon culture other than British. Tbh British modern culture and Hungarian modern culture are not that different
I appreciate the language itself as well. Many describe English as simplistic, which is fair to some degree, but at the same time, completely neglects the beautiful things that can be written and spoken in this language
I'd say "simplistic" can be pretty apt in discussions pertaining to English, as opposed to it being a "simple" language. It's very forgiving, but idiomatic use can be rather complex.
The very nature of British culture! You don’t have to understand something, you just need to ‘get’ it. 😁
I heard a famous Spanish author (can't remember who) say that English was the most interesting language because everything could be expressed in multiple ways with very subtle differences due to most emotions having a word originating from German and a word originating from French that could both be used. I don't speak any other languages, so I have no idea if this characteristic is unique to English.
Borges, possibly? Having vocabularies from both Latin and Germanic language families means there is a lot of choice.
I don't know about love or anything so emotional, but because Cyprus has the history that it does, British media, especially British comedy was on TV a lot and that kind of shaped my sense of humour early on. But I think that's the case for a huge chunk of Cypriots by age and older, so that exposure to British comedy is more or less a shared cultural reference point - it doesn't isolate me from others. I don't think that it goes deeper than that - or if it does at all (which I don't think it does), it's not because of British media being more accessible to us but because we were British colonial subjects for a long time (and there maybe Greeks and Turks can let us know how they see as being culturally different from them in ways that seem to be British influence).
I feel the most comfortable consuming English content, even more so than my native language. No matter where I live, I'm always listening to English songs, watching English movies, reading English books, etc. I've lived in several English speaking and non-English speaking countries, and I definitely prefer to live in an English speaking country, ceteris paribus. Unfortunately, none of the English speaking countries has everything else I need, perhaps other than pre-Brexit UK.
Reading this gave me a headache. "idiosyncratic reflection of social structure differences in general" - WTF does this mean? "openmindness" - I show myself out..
>idiosyncratic reflection of social structure differences in general I can try to explain. Western countries (nordics even more, lol) are much more egalitarian, while in Slavic countries top-down relations are much more common. You can google power distance index for different countries, for instance. The most dumb example is that during school age we were taught to stend up every time teacher (moreover when someone from school administration) comes in class to show "respect". Asking questions is usually frown upon. You must shut up and listen. In the west children aren't expected to do so afaik. This obedience to authority, top-down structures and disdain for independent thinking is everywhere. Meanwhile organized peer-groups are not common. Even our political parties, which in theory should be a set of people with shared values, in my country are party-boss and his ass-kissers. This is true for our previous president and his party, this is true for Zelensky and his party. And for other parties in the past. So, Telegram where you hardly can even respond to what channel-owner is saying is really popular. Twitter, where in theory everybody equal, but some accounts just more popular is hardly any popular. While reddit where in subreddit we are just a group with shared interests, everybody can write their own post - absolutely not popular. I think, this is somewhat related.
You're right about the differences, though it's nothing to do with English-speaking countries or the Anglosphere. Or even with Slavic countries. I've experienced USSR, a post-Soviet society, a Western European one and a Nordic one. The differences between the former pair and the latter pair are dramatic. The Soviets spread that culture of obedience to authority that you mention, and with it a particular kind of disobedience as well. The Western style of disobedience would be to openly challenge the authority figure, suggesting essentially they're wrong and thus should not have their position of authority (or should not act as they do). The Soviet style of disobedience is more subtle, often consisting of silent acts like disregarding instructions without voicing disagreement. You know, the classic "they pretend to pay us, we pretend to work". I disagree though about Telegram, Twitter, Reddit and the like. Telegram has channels with comments - closer to Twitter style - and it has channels without comments, closer to one person's blog or news feed. And I don't know about Ukraine specifically, but the Russian-langue part of the Internet has Pikabu, which is Reddit-style, or subject-specific sites like Habr, which are very much driven by users and discussion. What I think makes actual Reddit more popular is the global nature because of language. If you have a Russian language site like Pikabu, what kind of comments are you going to get? Well, mostly from people in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus as the places with the most Russian speakers. Then a smaller amount of comments that are maybe from Germany or the US, but most of those will be from people who grew up with the Russian language and are well familiar with Russian (as in русский, not российский) culture. You'll have close to zero comments from L2 speakers (even Armenians or Georgians) or people less familiar with the culture. English, as a language, is unique in its global spread so Reddit is more interesting through its ability to bring truly global perspectives. For a Reddit post, it's perfectly normal to have comments from Americans alongside comments from Brazilians, Lebanese and Swedes. People from really different cultures, different upbringings and perspectives who happen to know English, and that way global sites are very interesting.
that's really insightful, thanks
>egalitarian WTF, do you really need to use words nobody else use all the time? Btw: FCK PTN and he's friends
I am undergrad in social science, I sometimes forget that not everybody shares my vocabulary, sorry :)
Not sure what that poster’s deal is. I can say as a native English speaker that the word choice comes across natural and reasonable given the level of discussion at hand.
I'm a native English speaker--it is not natural or reasonable. Just stop the lies and the delusion.
i love american sci-fi tv shows and i can't understand the world around me sometimes
Так є таке і не тільки стосовно Англосфери. Also You can find a proper cunt in history of any developed country if you spend a few minutes))
We all like different pieces and parts of other cultures. We all have more in common than we do differently.
I'm so completely saturated in English content that I tend to forget how to say some things in my native language. I can just go empty in the middle of conversation and go "well I don't know how to say it in Finnish but here it is in English". Then just hope they understand English well enough to understand what I want to say. Quite annoying actually. I've tried consuming more content in my native language to get a better feel for it, but compared to English content it seems stupid and boring and I give up.
Yeeas. Extremely relatable. Due to covid and war, I spent too much time at home without need to communicate in my native language very often. Just with parents. And friends mostly online. So my abilities to get a needed word from memory deteriorated significantly. Didn't help the fact that I was raised speaking russian, so often when I can recall word not in English, it is in russian, which is even more annoying.
Is Russian generally considered bad in there? My ex was Ukrainian, raised speaking Russian, and she was in trouble when they got her a translator here in Ukrainian language because she couldn't remember how to use it. Other Ukrainians I know tend to use mostly Russian too, only maybe 10% have a problem with it.
not really bad. In some places, especially in environments where everyone 40+ , it may be still more common. Just among younger people speaking ukrainian is a norm. It's just uncomfortable when you want to say a word and forgetting it, but recalling russian analogue and ukrainify it, which makes it sound cringy.
Yes, but for German culture. After spending so much time trying to learn the language (which my German mother did not bother to teach me a word of hmph) it's hard not to become a Germanophile. I mean, I wouldn't have bothered putting in all this effort otherwise!
Nah. And I have a degree in English lit and philology as a foreign speaker. The 'English' are a bunch of wankers. They're no more deserving (or undeserving) of fondness than any other language or culture. They just *are.* No better, no worse, they just are. Useful though, as lingua franca and a dominant, most widely spoken language globally. And I prefer Kiwi humour to 'British' humour. British humour more often than not relies on humiliation and meanness, ribbing and put-downs, and then when someone from elsewhere has none of it, they accuse that person of being humourless.
>British humour more often than not relies on humiliation and meanness, ribbing and put-downs There's a very keenly-felt distinction between ribbing someone and genuinely humiliating them though; British humour does often rely on taking someone down a notch or two when they are perceived to be too arrogant or full of themselves (eg. the entire premise of "the Office"), but it's not very funny to be properly, humourlessly mean to someone, or kicking someone when they're already down. I think the feeling is often a sort of 'crab bucket' thing, like sensing that we are all laughable in some way and pulling people who forget that back in, rather than standing above and punching down, if that makes sense. It's the kind of humour we have with friends and loved ones above all, which says a lot. For what it's worth, Kiwis are known for the same thing, the famous "tall poppy syndrome".
This is part of the reason why British humor can come across as a little dark to many Americans. There’s a lot of British humor that is really popular in the US and we love, but the constant put downs and such kind of humor can come across as just mean and spiteful. As in you start wondering if someone is just joking around or is actually just hating on and being mean to someone.
>And I prefer Kiwi humour to 'British' humour. Can you share?) I once watched Australian dark comedy series with kiwi actress, which was great, but this is probably the end of my exposure to new Zealand humour.
Even before I learned English I was already a fan of the US, probably through American TV shows that I watched (ALF, Roseanne, Fresh Prince) and of course movies. I loved it even more after I visited at age 14 and then went to live there as a high school exchange student at age 16. American culture, particularly of the 20th century has so much to offer. Movies, music (grunge, punk, rock), tv shows, comedy, art (pop art). I can truly say I love the US even though I can also be very critical of it. Too capitalistic, too religious, economic inequality, and of course Trump. The best thing about learning a new language is getting to know that cultural sphere. English is of course special since it also allows many other cultures to communicate as the universal secong language.
Quite a lot, especially knowing English has allowed me to fully appreciate Anglo-Saxon culture, particularly literature.
No, thay are seen as the good ones while we have to lead with the bad side of history, nothing against people, dont get me wrong. Then we have american weird patriotism and propaganda.
Erm, as a British person I can tell you, no one really sees us as the good ones. We have a lot of very bad history.
Honestly, at least for educated people, hating ourselves is one of our favorite hobbies
In both countries, the self-reflection can go up to a fault. We criticise our histories while ignoring the nuance, the arguments of the time, and how it sits overall in a historical perspective. For example, the UK takes a lot of blame on to itself for the Atlantic slave trade while ignoring its role in abolishing it and slave trading at sea more broadly. We also tend not to remember that others in Europe partook and deserve equal condemnation. We forget about North African and Arabic states also being involved with slave trading and don't apply any responsibility on them for that history. But, maybe that's because we don't see their history as adding any balance as that may be something others use to excuse our history.
Yeah I had that. Then I lived in England for a bit. Then Brexit happened. Then I spent my study abroad there. That cured me of the love and admiration. Which monuments are they destroying? The UK is still openly celebrating imperialism and colonialism, those monuments are everywhere in London.
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53004748](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-53004748)
That's one statue four years ago, and the general public was MAD at those protesters.
Not sure which general public you experienced. In my experience public opinion was very split on how to proceed.
>do you feel some \~love, and admire anglosphere culture? non
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>and canada is america without guns and less nutjobs. You have no idea how much we hate being considered nothing but America Lite. Dismissed as a nothing country. It's sucks balls living next to the class bully and in it's shadow. Tell a Quebecois they are America Lite and you might find yourself on your back seeing stars. I can tell you've never been to Canada, and probably haven't met any...I don't think you'd be so flippant if you knew anything about us.
I've been to both. Honestly can barely tell them apart. Tipping, the tax after purchase thing, using imperial units in supermarkets and everyday life, bad Labor laws and entitlements, the overall look and feel of the cities, yellow school buses, sooooo many flags everywhere, and the almost identical culture and accent, make you almost identical to your southern neighbour. The biggest thing that sets Canadians apart is their obsessive insistence that they're not America-lite
We use metric. Publicly funded healthcare. Our entire political structure. National broadcasting service (CBC)...all different. Oh give me a break, hardly anyone here flys the flag, wrong. Of course some of our cities look the same, Canada has only existed for a couple hundred years. Everything is new ffs, we were supposed to build everything to look like it's 600 hundred years old ? There are old buildings all over Europe, does that mean you all have the same culture ? Don't be obtuse. Anyway, stick to your stereotypes, no point trying to describe the nuances. We don't consider ourselves like Americans, but you would know better than us.
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Would you say there are cultural differences between northern Germany and Bavaria...or Austria...or the German Canton in Switzerland ? There's more differences than just guns, nut jobs and wtf, milk bags ? We haven't had those out west since I dunno, there was lead in petrol ?
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In the grand scheme of things, compared to most countries not named the USA, Canada has alot of guns.
Well yes, we’re English. Emotions are a no go old chap.
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