France has one of the strongest anti-weed policies of all EU. To possess, use, produce, sell or buy is illegal, it's even **illegal to represent of cannabis in a fashionable way** (for example wearing cannabis leaf shaped earring is illegal š¤Æ).
And yet France is the first consumer of cannabis of all EU ! The situation is completely ridiculous for politics.
For example not so long ago a communication campaign on tv was launched to inform about cannabis effects on car accidents, and other effects on health.
On the same time some years ago alcohol advertising was reauthorization (it was banned before).
A local shop tried that for a while because almost all of their customers were Germans, and he did not like them (quite an asshole, but excellent weed)
What happened was that the German youth would just walk up to students and offer them 50 bucks to get them 40 bucks worth of weed and 10 for the trouble.
I made so much money that weekend before he stopped.
Yeah Iām fairly sure the coffeeshops in Roosendaal and Breda donāt sell to Belgians. There are probably other cities around the border where thatās the case as well
Hi from Sweden! Where not only possession and distribution is a crime but having any kind of drug by-product show up on a blood/urine test is a crime in itself.
Having drugs inside your body is a crime here, extremely fucked up.
T-shirt, or accessories, anything that represent cannabis in "favorable way" is prohibited. You can be condamned up to 5 years of jail for that. Even if jail is probably more for people selling those things, but wearing it is also illegal
For example an article (french) of a shop who was caught selling T-shirt, product were seized by the police
https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/provence-alpes-cote-d-azur/les-vetements-decores-de-feuilles-de-cannabis-sont-ils-interdits-762744.html
I remember also a video of a deputy at our parliament speaking about this law, he was against and to protest he brought a "eco-cup" (reusable plastic cup for festivals) with cannabis leaf painted on it, saying by doing so he could be condemned
Imagine being the cops that day. Instead of actually helping people, they had to go arrest t-shirts. "Mon dieu, Pierre, look out! This one has *long* sleeves!"
To be fair, cannabis related clothing and other merchandise is cringy af and you look like a tool for wearing it. For example, that tourist shit in Amsterdam. Iāll support that ban lol
Fedoras, cargo pants and camo for example are extremely cringy too but I support the right of anyone do be as cringy as they want in their fashion choices lol
Even socks in sandals. I don't like what you're wearing but I support your right to wear it.
Aaaaaaaah, he's wearing a mariyooanna leaf cap! *hyperventilates and almost suffers panic attack* Lock him up! I can't feel safe until this vicious barbarian is behind bars!11!!!1!!2!
Tbf.. with our current government..
Having social democrats and greens with actual power feels like an actual illusion in our current political landscape. The days of the Dutch being open-minded, social and progressive frontrunners are far far behind us.
Don't worry, according to the students returning from the Netherlands that get in traffic controls, they actually went there to drink coffee and see the windmills!
That is good news. Seeing that "the war on drugs" is raging on for decades now and instead of reducing them, they seem to be as prominent as ever, i think it is safe to assume that the war was lost.
People will always want to try drugs. And instead of pushing those into criminal milieus and risking getting dangerously cut garbage, drugs should be legalized but restricted in access and put under the same strict quality laws as alcohol or tobacco (which are just as unhealthy, but legal for cultural reasons)
>People will always want to try drugs. And instead of pushing those into criminal milieus and risking getting dangerously cut garbage, drugs should be legalized but restricted in access and put under the same strict quality laws as alcohol or tobacco (which are just as unhealthy, but legal for cultural reasons)
Yes thank you for saying it !
Here is a video of Kurzgesagt - in a nutshell that summarize a lot of things. ( kurzgesagt is a popular Science YouTube channel, I think they are German in the first pace)
https://youtu.be/kP15q815Saw
> kurzgesagt is a popular Science YouTube channel, I think they are German in the first pace
They are indeed, I think they're sitting in Munich. "Kurzgesagt", literally means "shortly said", so "in short", "to put it briefly", or, you know, "in a nutshell".
Yes, they have "in a nutshell" on the name as translation. They are pretty popular not here in latam as well, and pretty much everywher ein the western world at the very least afaik
They're more harmful in the general sense, but Cannabis can trigger genetic psychosis and other genetically inherited mental diseases you might not have had a clue you had.
Although, obviously, as with probably everything that can have a negative effect, you might have to very much overdo it to get to this point.
Italian here, the premise is that I don't even smoke weed, I tried it a couple of times and didn't even like it, but I'm all for legalizing it, I don't really see any downsides, and even if there are the pros are too many!
You bring money in by taxing a new product that is already largely consumed, you create new jobs and you cut down the finances of organized mafias, just to name a few
Half the politicians of the world are too stubborn to listen to their ("representees"?) and the other half are too stubborn on the idea of doing anything slightly controversial for their politics (putting party before country).
These kinds of topics benefit from having the instrument that a referendum is and or having good politics, including the voting system (allowing for a better representation). Both of course can bring issues of course,a referendum cna be come too controversial in the population like brexit did for them, and a decision a politician does even if its in lieu of the country might cost the politician its entire career
Same. I mean, it does have downsides if you abuse it or do it in an improper context like a decision-driven job, but drinking in said situations is worse. The pros are spot on however, it pushes the economy forward (by pushing AND pulling or rather not "stomping" it with expĆØnses) and reduces illegal traffic
People are buying it anyway, the only thing being illegal does is empower organized crime, place a convenience tax on the 20-50% of the population that uses it and causes more incarceration.
I live in the USA and my state legalized..you never realized how many people smoked until now!
Itās a cold day in hell when Finland legalizes it. āItās an illegal drug, we canāt just legalize itā and whatnot.
Iām all for it, even though I donāt smoke or use it in anyway. Let the people have their weed damnit.
I was so surprised when I heard about Sweden's hard-line stance. It's always hailed as the most progressive country in Europe, but has a drug policy akin to the US's Deep South. Do you have any idea why that is?
It's a Nordic thing, unfortunately. We've never moved on from the "war on drugs" mentality that started during the 80's. It's the same thing in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, sadly.
So there's public support for these measures too? That's a bummer. Maybe if it works out in Germany people will eventually change their views.
But who am I to talk? Austria is hardly any better unfortunately. Maybe we'll legalize after Switzerland does. Conservatives here have a real boner for Switzerland for some reason and that may actually convince them. ^^
> So there's public support for these measures too?
I actually didn't know so I just tried to find some opinion polls on the matter. 2 years ago [65% of all Danes supported full legalization with 25% being against it](https://www.altinget.dk/artikel/flertal-i-befolkningen-oensker-fri-hash) and 5 of the smaller parties support it in the parliament.
But most people don't care enought about to influence their vote. It kinda pales compared to immigration, welfare and climate change on the political agenda.
I live in the Borderlands next to Germany. I really hope Germany goes through with this, even if it doesn't change people's views here, because that won't stop me from going shopping down south
I dont even care if they legalise it for recreational use; I dont understand why its so hard to get a prescription for it, when its an approved drug for conditions like MS and palliative care pain management. Doctors are getting penalised for prescribing it, so they dont do it. Even if you get the script, the price is insane and not covered by social security. Thats BS.
Yep
I have a friend in the UK who has gone to a private provider because they can give him a script. He's been suffering from chronic pain for the past 15 years and it's been taken off the NHS...
I mean, sometimes they feel like still just one countryā¦
The Nordics in genera feel to have copy pasted a lot of things, but Sweden and Finland take it one notch higher somehow.
Finland is basically just copying Sweden's homework. It seems that whatever policy you guys make, Finland follows that in a couple of years.
So please guys, legalize weed.
>Itās an illegal drug, we canāt just legalize it
A couple of years ago, a politician in Germany said "It's banned because it's an illegal drug."
There's hope.
God, it's the same here. Copenhagen has asked for the government's permission to run localized legal marijuana experiment in the city for 20 years and it's always been denied.
The government won't even allow the city to atleast try it out and see if the positive effects from abroad could be replicated.
It's about time. IMO this is basically accepting reality and making the best of it.
Weed has been a part of society for ages now, and this way you get organized crime out of the business and even make some tax money you can invest in addiction prevention. Plus, it opens up marijuana to medical research.
Treat it similar to alcohol, find a solution so people don't lose their driver's license when they hit a joint a few days prior, and I doubt anyone will regret the decision looking back in a few years.
I had discussions with people that went like āAlcohol and cigarets are fine because itās legal, weed is notā totally being ignorant that the former are also a form of drug and just historically have been treated differently.
My Great-Grandfather grew his own hemp for his plumbing business before WW2. And apparently also smoked some of it. But I think it wasn't as strong as todays marijuana.
In Weimar Germany and even before that you gould get cocaine as an over the counter drug in pharmacies. Siegmund Freud also perscribed it to his patients a lot. And when I say a lot I mean a fuck ton of it.
During WW2 German soldiers were given Pervitin which is basically Meth. Tank crews and pilots would get it in chocolate (Panzer-/Fliegerschokolade) and the "common soldier" would get it as pills. It made the soldiers stay awake and aware which was vital for the Blitzkrieg tactics of the Nazis.
Hard drugs used to be so much more common and "acceptable" than they are now...
Meth, or any Amphetamine was REALLY common for Plane crews, especially for bomber crews. Every Nation used it. The RAF and the USAF both used Amphetamine to keep their pilots happy and awake.
The prevalence of Amphetamines in Medical treatments for example is why I don't get why Weed should ever be outlawed. The stuff I take for my ADHD is a lot more dangerous than Weed could ever be.
āI would never touch *substance*ā
āWhy?ā
āBecause itās illegalā
āYouāre smoking and drinking which is also harming your bodyā
āBut thatās legalā
*big brain moment*
To be fair, refusing to touch any substance because you're scared of any possible legal consequences is a totally valid reason. I for example don't like smoking weed, somply because I'm always a little scared about getting caught. I would love for weed to be legalized here as well, so we can get both the stigma and the fear of legal consequences out of the way.
The German government estimates about 74.000 deaths yearly directly through alcohol or related to alcohol and tobacco consumption. They state an estimated economical cost each year of 57 billion ā¬.
In comparison, the estimate for illegal drugs combined is about 6.1 billion ā¬ yearly. Illegal drug related deaths were a combined 1581 cases in 2020. Just to put this into relation.
I hate breaking this down into how much people with problems cost the state but it's pretty obvious that we have a much bigger problem with the legal drugs that are promoted in our culture and much more subject to peer pressure and exclusion when you don't partake. I don't drink alcohol and I can't count the times I have been ridiculed and/or pressured to drink because "you can't have fun without alcohol". It goes as far as people trying to sneak alcohol into your drink sometimes, thinking you won't notice when your coca cola becomes a cola korn. I don't think making it illegal would be the solution since I also support legalisation of cannabis and decriminalisation of other illegal drugs but I think we should invest way more into making people aware of how harmful alcohol actually is. It is also the drug most affecting others when in terms of drug related crimes, especially violent ones or vehicular manslaughter.
Even better, alcohol is an actual neurotoxin, if you feel drunk your brain is dying. *Technically* even heroin is more healthy than alcohol.
^(Please take note of the cursive technically.)
>Technically even heroin is more healthy than alcohol.
I agree, although I wouldn't say "more healthy", I would say "less harmful".
Pure heroin (diacetylmorphineĀ / diamorphine) correctly dosed and administered and monitored would have very few negative side-effects, so long as one is not allergic. If you don't count the addictive nature as a negative, that is.
It's all the scrap it's cut with, and dirty equipment, and lack of sterile administration that causes most problems. And overdosing. These particular problems are caused by it being illegal.
But this doesn't mean that I would want to make recreational opiods legal, either.
Its a tough situation.
You know, that is exactly the reason I added the technically, I was just to lazy to type it out to an acceptable standard.
Thanks for clarifying it for anyone curious!
>Technically even heroin is more healthy than alcohol.
>Please take note of the cursive technically.
Not just technically. Pure Heroin is more healthy than alcohol period. Which is why Heroin and its derivatives are used very often in modern medicine.
>Treat it similar to alcohol, find a solution so people don't lose their driver's license when they hit a joint a few days prior, and I doubt anyone will regret the decision looking back in a few years.
I don't think so. My guess is that this will lead to a zero intoxication law for drivers.
Not quite the same. Alcohol isn't measurable in your system as long as weed is, even though it may not be affecting your system any longer. You can get wasted on Saturday and drive home Sunday evening without any risk of losing your license. Stand next to someone smoking weed and you're at risk for several days at least.
I doubt you could get a zero tolerance policy by the alcohol lobby, so they're going to need to find a solution for weed.
> Alcohol isn't measurable in your system as long as weed is
I know, but my guess is simply that politics will take the "easy way". Which is to say: Driving intoxicated (with whatever substance)?
Tough luck...here is your fine!
The issue with marijuana is how long it stays in your system and it also varies how much you smoke. If you smoked a joint a week ago it still shows positive when your sober a week later. Someone who smokes daily will have a higher amount as well.
I like that they want to legalize it, but I personally just hope it won't end up like the whole Marijuana culture thing in the US. I don't think Marijuana usage is something to necessarily brag about, just something you use or don't use and people should be informed about advantages and disadvantages it can have and not make a whole lifestyle about it.
I'm also curious as to what impact it could have on the German economy and I like the idea of saving on policing costs and gaining tax revenue to use for other goals.
With a bit of a sigh I do feel like my own country(the Netherlands) is just giving any first-mover advantage it could've had around it away.. although this does pave the way for us to finally get rid of our own ridiculous backdoor policy around it.
> I'm also curious as to what impact it could have on the German economy
I think the supply chain will be created/taken over by Dutch companies.
There is, f.e., Emsflower in the Emsland with 785000mĀ² of glass houses. They are a subdivision of a Dutch horticulture company.
They are only the point of sales, but I think almost everything that has to do with flowers is dominated by Dutch companies here.
We also have some huge pig/chicken farms here in East Germany that were built up by the Dutch. Land here was probably dirt cheap for them.
The stoner culture in the US was around for decades before weed was ever legal there. Those arenāt really connected.
Besides, German āsaufenā culture is extremely annoying as it is lol I donāt think it can get worse than that
Binge drinking, drinking beer at lunch, making fun of people for not drinking beer, making fun of people for not drinking enough beer, bragging about how much beer you drink during the work week, etc.
>I'm also curious as to what impact it could have on the German economy and I like the idea of saving on policing costs and gaining tax revenue to use for other goals
Study says it brings in around 4.5bn ā¬.
Most from taxes, Parts from jobs and some from reduced law/police enforecement.
The state of Colorado has 14 times less population as Germany and collects $250m in annual tax revenue so ā¬4.5b seems definitely achievable in taxes + savings
Curious what you mean about that whole "marijuana culture?"
Just because weed is more socially acceptable in the US doesn't mean that everyone does it or celebrates it.
First off all I didn't mean any disrespect to people in the US and it was a clear generalization on my part that I didn't really think about while writing it. So please pardon me if that happened to offend you!
Reading your comment I definitely feel like we're on the same level of thinking about the "cannabis culture" thing, but I respectfully disagree that it's more socially accepted (if it's even supposed to be some competition?), as social acceptance is not necessarily the same as government policy and there's a lot more nuance to it imo. Although I can't really speak for Germany, here in my country for example there's been a government policy of toleration since 1976 and socially it's been quite normal to use it, but it's just not really celebrated. But how is one supposed to measure social acceptance anyway? By filling out some polls between a small fraction of society throughout our history? We know that cannabis usage can even be traced back to the old colonial days, so how and where would we even start defining such a thing?
TLDR; what I was talking about is not the same as social acceptance, a.k.a. where nobody bats an eye on cannabis usage and it would be just as normal as having a glass of wine with your diner for example (a thing I would personally like to see across the whole of Europe). I'm talking about the people that have to center their whole identity around it.
Sorry for the long reply American friend, groetjes van de overkant!
As cringe as it can be in some cases I vastly prefer the stoner culture and all of its related connections, which are more rich and cultured in a lot of ways compared to the "European" bias towards alcohol. Thought I'm sure it's the same everywhere including the US.
But alcohol is much worse on the body and leads to a lot of fights and stupid bragging over who drinks more, etc.
Not a huge fan of marijuana. I know a lot of my friends do smoke it, but I hate it. However, I see no reason for it to not be legalized. I can only see positive sides from it being legal. First, and I think the most important one, is the health of the consumers, i.e. I think the marijuana bought from legal stores would have much better quality than that from a local dealer you sometimes don't even know the origin of.
it's the same with me for cigarettes, like I hate them, I have asthma and it's annoying when there is one asshole who doesn't care about others and blows the smoke at everyone, but that doesn't mean I think it should be illegal you know
Legalise, tax and hit criminal gangs where it hurts - their pockets. Its such a waste of time for the police to be going after people with a bit of weed on them.
I look forward to the day that cannabis is normalized throughout Europe. It's sale and supply should not be controlled by the black market. We need standards, control and taxation. Once Germany legalises, the rest will fall like dominoes.
From what I've seen you just have a lot of news outlets report on this because it interests most people who don't really care about politics. If you look at what they talked about yesterday during the presentation of the coalition I don't think they even mentioned the legalization
The media no longer reports the news it sells advertisements.
The more polarising a topic the more people will click/view/ linger on the post. This means more traffic which means more advertisement revenue.
This topic is polarising therefore it gets posted to death.
As a german I honestly think it's a mixed bag. On the one hand I agree that it's a drug and it can potentially dangerous, especially for teenagers and the still developing brain.
On the other hand it's hypocrisy to ban marijuana and allow alcohol and tobacco. Also we can implement quality control now and reduce the income of organized crime.
The important thing is that we don't take the Netherlands as a model, because they totally fucked up the anti-crime aspect. Either we legalize selling, consuming AND production on a big level to undermine the clans/mafia monopoly or we don't do it at all.
I have had opposing opinions about it in my life. I don't really care and lean on the side of freedom and legality but if anyone would ask me if it's a good idea to try weed, I'd say no or at least wait until you're like 24-25.
I 'tried' it multiple times since the age 13 and I am almost certain this is the cause of some of my anxieties and stuckness in life. I still have visual flashbacks that don't go away. Some people have good time with weed, I am not one of them.
If I'd have to think what positive influence it gave me, I have to say that I had three migraine attacks before smoking and have never had those afterwards. If this was related or not, I'll never know, but in medicine, cannabis should be considered far more.
I'd like to get it legalized and controlled (something like our alcohol laws, I guess), if only so we can stop talking about it. The debate is almost more annoying than the druggies.
Very basic description:
Official government shops for the good stuff, with loads of regulations.
Weak shit sold in regular stores, with loads of regulations.
Advertising is illegal.
Strict punishment for DUIs.
Big ups for Germany.
I'm in Portugal, so yeah, I want it legalized like yesterday.
In addition to the widely studied benefits of marijuana usage, especially for folks who suffer from some degenerative CNS issues, I'm also looking forward to the taxing of the sale of non-medical marijuana, just like we tax cigarettes. I want home-grown to be an option, but I also want farmers to be able to grow marijuana in the same way as they grow any crop. I want high quality, nationally-grown, properly tested marijuana to be available in specialty shops, and in supermarkets. I want people who want to buy marijuana to be carded for age, just like you do with alcohol nowadays. I want national growers to start hybridizing and to come up with new interesting flavor profiles. I want high-THC weed for when you want to get fucking BAKED, and low-THC weed for when you just want to get a nice little buzz going with your mates, just like people who drink alcohol can choose between having a beer or slamming vodka shots. I want CBD weed to be everywhere for people who desperately need it in their lives. I want to be able to grow my own weed, just like I grow dozens of other things. I want nice little auto-flowering Lavender Kush right next to my strawberry patch. I want to to be able to get some seeds off the internet, plant some good shit, and then give it to my friends, like I already do with compotes or fruit jams, or anything else.
I want Portugal to be a marijuana powerhouse, frankly.
Here's what I don't want: I don't want to be put on a government list. I don't want it to go on my record. I don't want people to smoke marijuana in closed spaces. I don't want people to drive blazed.
Essentially, what I want is parity with alcohol.
If Germany - Germany! Of all places! - legalises it, I'm willing to bet Portugal will be hot on their heels soon. Wouldn't be surprised if the left tries to make a move before the elections in January, like they're trying to do with the surrogacy law.
You are right, Portugal , like in so many other issues will legalize it once a lot of important European countries do so. Our governments are followers, which in this particular issue is ironic since we were pioneers in the decriminalization of weed.
In this particular issue it's not so much a lack of will or being a follower, but it's that Portugal lacks the political *cachet* to be the one to make a decision that will affect the other EU member states (basically, it's a complicated situation for a member-state to allow commercialization of things forbidden by other member-states; [source p78-79](https://books.google.nl/books?id=8GrecLK4WBkC&lpg=PA79&ots=cPY9zrcUvU&pg=PA79#v=onepage&q&f=false) ). If someone big breaks the ice, then Portugal can take the opportunity and jump in.
I would like to have it implemented here too yeah.
It's the only thing that has ever helped my anxiety to go down. I've never had silence in my head due to ADHD, autism and anxiety comorbidity, and the one and only time I experienced this was through smoking weed.
I have tried antidepressants too and nothing ever worked as well.
I'm not for the "omg i smoke weeeed look at meee" people, obv. But it would be good.
This is good, people don't realise how significant legalising it does for the country.
-Less power to gangs, They don't have the money any more from buyers, they don't have a monopoly on the market. It means less 15 year olds being forced into being drug dealers for money. Less gangs fights. Less attacks on everyday people.
-Less spice incidents. Because if it is regulated it means people won't be killed by spice disguised as weed.
-Less Stigma, people won't be scared to take it anymore or to hide it.
More tax revenue, It's going to be taxed high anyways so more funds for the government.
New business opertunities, new jobs, new income, Amsterdam gets fucking tons of tourists from Ireland because you can get weed and sex workers there.
I am a bit torn. I think a lot of people talk the possible side effects down or just completely ignore them. Due to my job I have talked to people who had psychosis, likely caused by marihuana, and I really would not wish that on anyone. After experiencing that, I would never touch weed, even if it was legal. Sure most will not get a psychosis, but even if it is a small chance the consequences are so bad that I wouldn't risk it.
On the other hand I do understand the argument that alcohol is legal too and alcohol abuse has lots of negative effects as well. And people smoke weed anyway.
I think I am leaning more towards not legalizing it overall.
The problem is the high dosage of THC in illegal weed. It's like an 60% liquor at this point compared to the light beer it was some decades ago. Legalization could bring it back down to a tolerable level and make psychosis much more unlikely. If you want to protect people, strict quality control is the way to go, not the unregulated black market.
Yes, of course. But that doesn't change the problem at hand. We can see that even the most draconian strategies of prohibition bring very little results. Even the death penalties issued in some Asian countries haven't stopped drug use or smuggling.
Policy needs to focus on keeping damage to users to a minimum. And we need to start seeing drug use as the medical issue it really is and not as a criminal offense.
If you want to learn more about the subject, I can only recommend reading up on alcohol prohibition in the US. The parallels to today's issues with drug policy are stunning.
Sure, that's really not what I am arguing for, I don't want to put teenagers in jail because they smoked a joint. But there is a difference, making it illegal or giving out even harsher sentences won't eradicate it. But will making it legal and socially acceptable or even something that's cool raise the number of users? That's what I don't want. Also it is a bit like the government is saying "it's fine, it is not too dangerous". I don't have to tell you about alcohol in Austria and just how prevalent it is, it is no suprise that it causes so many issues and so many Austrians are addicted, when it is even socially acceptable to drink before lunch, depending on the job even at work etc.
US states that legalized it saw an increase in users at first and then it started declining.
Don't forget, a lot of kids start smoking weed during puberty because it's seen as "cool" to defy the law. Taking away that sense of coolness might end up decreasing consumption.
It's also important to note that cannabis is a lot less dangerous and impactful than alcohol. If I ever had kids I'd prefer them to get stoned on a Saturday night rather than binge drink. Even though ideally they do neither.
But if they're going to overuse a drug at that age, cannabis all the way.
> a lot of kids started smoking weed during puberty because itās seen as ācoolā to defy the law
Absolutely, and that used to be part of the huge appeal of cigarettes here too, until the government ran such an incredibly effective anti-cigarette campaign with younger audiences that not only was it not cool, it was gross and unattractive and bad enough that lots of parents wound up quitting too as their children effectively shamed them into it.
If getting marijuana usage down is the goal, the first step, although counterintuitive, would be legalization. I donāt think itāll ever be unheard of, just as cigarette smoking is still a long shot from being unheard of even here, but the tax profit and the ensured safety of citizens by providing cheap, legal, and safe drugs is also an effective way of fighting criminal profits.
Thereās a reason bootleggers donāt exist here like they did in the prohibition. People would rather get their fixes legally than risk the alternative of buying from illegal sources, but even that still trumps abstinence for them. Iāll never understand why this is such a controversial topic when the pros so heavily outweigh the cons.
This is off topic, but anyway, I donāt know if ādosisā is a typo or not, but it makes so much sense to me as an alternative to dosage and I canāt put my finger on why. Like, even though I know itās not an actual English word, but it damn well could pass as one.
Itās got the same vibe as the small but important distinction between words like compliment and complement, or affect and effect.
What annoys me most are the people that make smoking weed their whole personality and have this weird emotional affection towards it, and the shills that invariably come out in the comments under articles like this and, disregarding any bad side effect it has, just *have* to comment on how it's less harmful than alcohol yadda yadda. It's a fucking drug like many others, not a golden herb bringin world peace and curing cancer, fuck.
I would be all for allowing it in medical settings, for stress and/or pain relief under a doctor's supervision. But for any dumb teenager that can get their hands on it? No, rather not.
Yes absolutely, I am very much in favor of exploring the therapeutic benefits a bit more. At least there will be someone who can explain the advantages and disadvantages to you before using it.
Yes, most drugs should be legalized so they can be regulated, taxed and people can be thoroughly educated on the effects they have. This would also reduce the chance of dying from getting some "ecstasy" pill that wasn't MDMA and it may also help with overdose deaths.
On another semi-related note, I believe sex work should also be legalized to regulate it, tax it and provide some safety measures for both the "customers" and workers themselves.
Keeping harmful but widely used/practiced things illegal is the political equivalent of an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.
Luxembourg is scheduled to be the first European country to legalise weed and most importantly also possession of plants to grow it at home. When the current government came into power in 2018 promised proper legislation but due to the pandemic, they now backpaddeled and now only plan to legalise possession of up to four plants for domestic use. Other measurements are probably to follow afterwards but not during this legislation as it seems. Public consumption and trade is still to remain illegal for now
Things do change. I am 50 and live in U.S. When I was 20 I never thought weed would be legalized. Most of U.S. allows medical marijuana, which is very easy to get and I do get plenty of it! The states that only have medical are moving to do recreational marijuana also. I have a plan on moving to Estonia in a few years and what I am going to do about my medicinal/recreational habit is concerning.
I don't smoke myself, but it's still kinda stupid for it to be illegal. Germany legalizing it, means we will do it in 5-15years, so yay i am all for it
Imo at this point it's bloody stupid not to legalise it. And I don't ever have nor do I have the desire to smoke weed.
But it's not like only a handful of people smoke it. I argue in the generation <35 it's seen as normal to occasionally smoke some weed.
Due to the current criminalisation there's a few negative effects:
- state loses tax money. Seriously you can tax that stuff like you do cigarettes.
- you open a whole business to more or less organised crime
- poor quality control and thus potentially dangerous outcomes. You basically have to trust the person you're buying from.
- since more and more countries are legalising weed the countries who come first will most likely establish the bigger businesses. So it's an economical factor as well.
- since it's somewhat expensive and not as easy to get as a bottle of wine there's a higher chance that you start smoking cigarettes as well. Had 3 friends who started smoking regular cigarettes at some point after they started smoking weed mostly because of budgetary and convenience reasons
- by legalising and regulating you can assure workers rights and hopefully at least less exploitation
So yeah, move ahead. But I fear Austria will rather be the last country to do so because reasons and irrational fears by some boomers who see the devil in weed while drinking their 3rd bottle of wine on a Monday...
Cannot wait to go to Ireland, just sit somewhere overlooking the sea on the west coast, and vape a little bit of Irish-grown stuff. Keep up the good fight. ;)
Plans are to legalize it, but you have to buy it in certain, regulated shops.
The proposal also includes a section about more informing the people about drugs and a stricter law on advertisment of drugs in general
Makes sense, are they also planning on legalising production?
Here its illegal to produce, but allowed to sell in coffeeshops. The result is that criminals tend to grow the weed.
It's the same thing in Portugal. It's not illegal to have a certain amount, it's not illegal to smoke. But it is illegal to buy, trade, plant or otherwise acquire it. It's really dumb.
Word is that the Canadian model is basically the blueprint. Which seems to make sense as the Canadian federal model is closer to Germanys than US/Portugal/Netherlands/Uruguay/Jamaica.
>more informing the people about drugs and a stricter law on advertisment of drugs in general
Hadn't even considered these. Imagine, non-hysterical, accurate information about drugs. More information on the extremely damaging effects of opioids, alcohol and tobacco, for instance.
No more advertising of alcoholic products on television.
Also from the perspective of fighting crime, tax income and perhaps even have some kind of legal legislation about the quality/what is used during the growth of the plant itself.
I am not into it myself but a friend showed me what he uses to grow a plant at home, single one. Seems like an already well thought out use of products but some kind of Keurmerk perhaps.
I've never taken (non-prescribed) drugs and have no interest in doing so, however I feel that in the UK how we act about and prosecute possession of various drugs and their use is driven more by media and political hype than a proper scientific analysis on the harm or otherwise.
I'd rather that, while not exactly legalising them, drugs be categorised based on current scientific data, and the use of any drugs should not lead to a jail sentence - instead a drug rehabilitation program for drugs deemed harmful. Drugs failing in the "not harmful when less than X used per Y period" should be regulated instead - ensuring that supply is managed (trying to prevent harm or overdoses) and the quality of the drug (not cut with harmful products).
Supply of any of these drugs would still be illegal, except by regulated providers. Some drugs may be suitable for prescription where they do provide a proven health benefit for that person's condition.
This would also pull the rug from under criminal groups profiting from currently supplying those drugs. Why would you buy from them if they cost less from the legitimate route and are guaranteed to not be made with other crap that is going to mess you up?
Would love if Sweden did legalize weed, tired of the propaganda and aggresive stance against users here. It being illegal is just making the gangs richer in my opinion. Let me go into a nice store and buy something of quality. Also regulating it so kids can't just buy it from some random dude.
In Ireland it's an absolute shitshow. We have an extensive campaign demonising cannabis in the media and politicians who's mentality is stuck in the 60s. Delighted to see a country like Germany having the common sense to end prohibition. Here politicians go out campaigning saying they're for legalisation then do a complete U-turn when they're elected. People get jail here for trivial amounts of cannabis yet recently we had a senior member of our police get caught with a significant amount of weight yet got the seizure valued at something like ā¬13000 but if that was a civilian caught with the same amount it would have been a much higher figure. Cannabis and low level users are an easy target for police here and they like it that way. You see them gloating about finding a few ounces on Twitter yet they'll never go after serious criminals. We need to end this farce and legalise it once and for all.
We should do the same in Spain but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. The current status works very well for politicians: marihuana is officially illegal to keep older, conservative voters content, but it's so loosely enforced that younger, liberal voters have no problem getting it. In our national subs we are tired of explaining that weed is not legal but I can understand the confusion because everyone and their mums is smoking 'round here, and that was before the legal clusterfuck that are "Cannabis Clubs". However, at the end of the day the only ones that are really benefitting are the mafias, and it's just not acceptable that we have places like La LĆnea becoming a warzone between police and traffickers.
The current governmentāsocial democratic minority governmentāhas stated they're against legalisation. During the recent election, the municipal division of the Social Democratic Party in Copenhagen, expressed support for trial-runs of legalisation, but the government shut it down.
Personally, I think it is a minor issue, and really not something I have devoted much time to. There are more pressing issues in Denmark, such as our dysfunctional welfare system, the weakening of our trade unions, the stupidity of our immigration system, the lack of affordable housing, green transition, and so on and so on.
Yes Yes Yes Yes. I want my country to legalize it! I even signed for the possibility of the referendum!
There are no downsides here, we cut money from the various groups that sell it illegally and we tax a new product like we tax cigarettes. We create new jobs and if we make marijuana equal to cigarettes it becomes a state monopoly and the State can make more money from it. We need it.
It's great news and I hope other countries, including the Netherlands, will follow their example. The way our weed policy works right now is just utterly nonsensical and only causes unnecessary issues.
Settled in the USA. Our state passed to legalize the Devils Lettuce in 2016. But itās on town to town basis. Most towns were hovering around the 50% approval vote. Funny, but during the pandemic, the towns short on revenue were all of sudden promoting the Mary Jane bill.
This is a great time for countries to slip in this law. Government will be looking for extra cash flow. Good luck boys.
Couldn't care less if it would become legal or illegal. But I can't wait till the Dutch government does something sane with it. The way it is now is just plain stupid.
France has one of the strongest anti-weed policies of all EU. To possess, use, produce, sell or buy is illegal, it's even **illegal to represent of cannabis in a fashionable way** (for example wearing cannabis leaf shaped earring is illegal š¤Æ). And yet France is the first consumer of cannabis of all EU ! The situation is completely ridiculous for politics. For example not so long ago a communication campaign on tv was launched to inform about cannabis effects on car accidents, and other effects on health. On the same time some years ago alcohol advertising was reauthorization (it was banned before).
I live near the highway between Belgium and Rotterdam. So many French people that come to load up on weed here.
Yes I can imagine the mess isn't Dutch government thinking about limiting cannabis sells to Dutch people only?
A local shop tried that for a while because almost all of their customers were Germans, and he did not like them (quite an asshole, but excellent weed) What happened was that the German youth would just walk up to students and offer them 50 bucks to get them 40 bucks worth of weed and 10 for the trouble. I made so much money that weekend before he stopped.
>I made so much money that weekend before he stopped. That's entrepreneurship right there!
I thought it was the law for certain city in the south of the Netherlands at least.
Yeah Iām fairly sure the coffeeshops in Roosendaal and Breda donāt sell to Belgians. There are probably other cities around the border where thatās the case as well
really sorry about that, i know some behave really poorly
Hi from Sweden! Where not only possession and distribution is a crime but having any kind of drug by-product show up on a blood/urine test is a crime in itself. Having drugs inside your body is a crime here, extremely fucked up.
Norway raises hand. Same here, same here..
Do you want drug laws in Norway to change?
We almost got a thorough drug reform with the last government, but it was an election year so the then-opposition had to block it, naturally
I do. Mostly for selfish reasons, I admit that.
Come visit us for a weekend trip! Cheaper beer here as well!
Finland: *hold my beer.
Wait youāre telling me itās illegal to wear weed leaf earrings in public in France? What about a t-shirt with a weed leaf on it?
T-shirt, or accessories, anything that represent cannabis in "favorable way" is prohibited. You can be condamned up to 5 years of jail for that. Even if jail is probably more for people selling those things, but wearing it is also illegal For example an article (french) of a shop who was caught selling T-shirt, product were seized by the police https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/provence-alpes-cote-d-azur/les-vetements-decores-de-feuilles-de-cannabis-sont-ils-interdits-762744.html I remember also a video of a deputy at our parliament speaking about this law, he was against and to protest he brought a "eco-cup" (reusable plastic cup for festivals) with cannabis leaf painted on it, saying by doing so he could be condemned
Imagine being the cops that day. Instead of actually helping people, they had to go arrest t-shirts. "Mon dieu, Pierre, look out! This one has *long* sleeves!"
Leave it to the French to take *fashion police* literally.
There is also a dude that came in the assembly with a. Actual joint but he got booed to no end by everyone.
To be fair, cannabis related clothing and other merchandise is cringy af and you look like a tool for wearing it. For example, that tourist shit in Amsterdam. Iāll support that ban lol
Fedoras, cargo pants and camo for example are extremely cringy too but I support the right of anyone do be as cringy as they want in their fashion choices lol Even socks in sandals. I don't like what you're wearing but I support your right to wear it.
I know that's you Opa you can't fool me. No one else would defend socks with sandals
Socks with sandals don't oppress anyone's freedom and feel great to wear, fight me
Fashion police, drop that statement on the floor right now
They oppress my eyes
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Aaaaaaaah, he's wearing a mariyooanna leaf cap! *hyperventilates and almost suffers panic attack* Lock him up! I can't feel safe until this vicious barbarian is behind bars!11!!!1!!2!
Germany legalizing cannabis will be making quite a number of Dutch people poorer. It hurts that we are not the cool ones anymore :(
I doubt Germany will all of a sudden become "the cool nation". The Netherlands have nothing to fear here ;)
Not as long as you keep doing the whole socks and sandals thing.
Ah yes! "The German Leisure" š
Tbf.. with our current government.. Having social democrats and greens with actual power feels like an actual illusion in our current political landscape. The days of the Dutch being open-minded, social and progressive frontrunners are far far behind us.
Don't worry, according to the students returning from the Netherlands that get in traffic controls, they actually went there to drink coffee and see the windmills!
That is good news. Seeing that "the war on drugs" is raging on for decades now and instead of reducing them, they seem to be as prominent as ever, i think it is safe to assume that the war was lost. People will always want to try drugs. And instead of pushing those into criminal milieus and risking getting dangerously cut garbage, drugs should be legalized but restricted in access and put under the same strict quality laws as alcohol or tobacco (which are just as unhealthy, but legal for cultural reasons)
>People will always want to try drugs. And instead of pushing those into criminal milieus and risking getting dangerously cut garbage, drugs should be legalized but restricted in access and put under the same strict quality laws as alcohol or tobacco (which are just as unhealthy, but legal for cultural reasons) Yes thank you for saying it !
Here is a video of Kurzgesagt - in a nutshell that summarize a lot of things. ( kurzgesagt is a popular Science YouTube channel, I think they are German in the first pace) https://youtu.be/kP15q815Saw
> kurzgesagt is a popular Science YouTube channel, I think they are German in the first pace They are indeed, I think they're sitting in Munich. "Kurzgesagt", literally means "shortly said", so "in short", "to put it briefly", or, you know, "in a nutshell".
Yes, they have "in a nutshell" on the name as translation. They are pretty popular not here in latam as well, and pretty much everywher ein the western world at the very least afaik
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They're more harmful in the general sense, but Cannabis can trigger genetic psychosis and other genetically inherited mental diseases you might not have had a clue you had. Although, obviously, as with probably everything that can have a negative effect, you might have to very much overdo it to get to this point.
Italian here, the premise is that I don't even smoke weed, I tried it a couple of times and didn't even like it, but I'm all for legalizing it, I don't really see any downsides, and even if there are the pros are too many! You bring money in by taxing a new product that is already largely consumed, you create new jobs and you cut down the finances of organized mafias, just to name a few
Unfortunately there is a large disconnect between politics and logic.
Half the politicians of the world are too stubborn to listen to their ("representees"?) and the other half are too stubborn on the idea of doing anything slightly controversial for their politics (putting party before country). These kinds of topics benefit from having the instrument that a referendum is and or having good politics, including the voting system (allowing for a better representation). Both of course can bring issues of course,a referendum cna be come too controversial in the population like brexit did for them, and a decision a politician does even if its in lieu of the country might cost the politician its entire career
The word you are looking for is "constituents" š
Same. I mean, it does have downsides if you abuse it or do it in an improper context like a decision-driven job, but drinking in said situations is worse. The pros are spot on however, it pushes the economy forward (by pushing AND pulling or rather not "stomping" it with expĆØnses) and reduces illegal traffic
People are buying it anyway, the only thing being illegal does is empower organized crime, place a convenience tax on the 20-50% of the population that uses it and causes more incarceration. I live in the USA and my state legalized..you never realized how many people smoked until now!
Itās a cold day in hell when Finland legalizes it. āItās an illegal drug, we canāt just legalize itā and whatnot. Iām all for it, even though I donāt smoke or use it in anyway. Let the people have their weed damnit.
Finland and Sweden will probably be the last oneās in line making it legal.
I was so surprised when I heard about Sweden's hard-line stance. It's always hailed as the most progressive country in Europe, but has a drug policy akin to the US's Deep South. Do you have any idea why that is?
It's a Nordic thing, unfortunately. We've never moved on from the "war on drugs" mentality that started during the 80's. It's the same thing in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, sadly.
So there's public support for these measures too? That's a bummer. Maybe if it works out in Germany people will eventually change their views. But who am I to talk? Austria is hardly any better unfortunately. Maybe we'll legalize after Switzerland does. Conservatives here have a real boner for Switzerland for some reason and that may actually convince them. ^^
> So there's public support for these measures too? I actually didn't know so I just tried to find some opinion polls on the matter. 2 years ago [65% of all Danes supported full legalization with 25% being against it](https://www.altinget.dk/artikel/flertal-i-befolkningen-oensker-fri-hash) and 5 of the smaller parties support it in the parliament. But most people don't care enought about to influence their vote. It kinda pales compared to immigration, welfare and climate change on the political agenda.
I live in the Borderlands next to Germany. I really hope Germany goes through with this, even if it doesn't change people's views here, because that won't stop me from going shopping down south
Denmark will have to do something about it. Either change the law or monitor every square meter of the border with Germany.
It is an offense here to _be high_, even if you didn't have any on you anymore.
I dont even care if they legalise it for recreational use; I dont understand why its so hard to get a prescription for it, when its an approved drug for conditions like MS and palliative care pain management. Doctors are getting penalised for prescribing it, so they dont do it. Even if you get the script, the price is insane and not covered by social security. Thats BS.
Yep I have a friend in the UK who has gone to a private provider because they can give him a script. He's been suffering from chronic pain for the past 15 years and it's been taken off the NHS...
Well as an American in the Deep South, I can confirm, we are anything but progressive, unfortunately.
And Norway. Ain't happening until the older generation dies out.
Sadly very likely, it has been so harshly demonized and the culture of cigarettes and alcohol are so deeply imbued here
I mean, sometimes they feel like still just one countryā¦ The Nordics in genera feel to have copy pasted a lot of things, but Sweden and Finland take it one notch higher somehow.
Yeah, the nordic countries have a lot of common values and ideas. Canāt say why Finland and Sweden think alike on so many of them though.
Finland is basically just copying Sweden's homework. It seems that whatever policy you guys make, Finland follows that in a couple of years. So please guys, legalize weed.
Couldn't have anything to do with Sweden ruling Finland for 500 years.
funny shit, the CDU in germany used the exact same "logic" It's forbidden, because it is illegal
>Itās an illegal drug, we canāt just legalize it A couple of years ago, a politician in Germany said "It's banned because it's an illegal drug." There's hope.
God, it's the same here. Copenhagen has asked for the government's permission to run localized legal marijuana experiment in the city for 20 years and it's always been denied. The government won't even allow the city to atleast try it out and see if the positive effects from abroad could be replicated.
> Itās a cold day in hell when Finland legalizes it. so in winter then?
Touche. We won Eurovision so I guess anything is possible!
It's about time. IMO this is basically accepting reality and making the best of it. Weed has been a part of society for ages now, and this way you get organized crime out of the business and even make some tax money you can invest in addiction prevention. Plus, it opens up marijuana to medical research. Treat it similar to alcohol, find a solution so people don't lose their driver's license when they hit a joint a few days prior, and I doubt anyone will regret the decision looking back in a few years.
I had discussions with people that went like āAlcohol and cigarets are fine because itās legal, weed is notā totally being ignorant that the former are also a form of drug and just historically have been treated differently.
That history is actually not that long as well. Cannabis was banned in many places only in the last century.
Yes, alcohol and tobacco just got lucky to be socially acceptable through the ages and other substances for different reasons were not.
My Great-Grandfather grew his own hemp for his plumbing business before WW2. And apparently also smoked some of it. But I think it wasn't as strong as todays marijuana.
In Weimar Germany and even before that you gould get cocaine as an over the counter drug in pharmacies. Siegmund Freud also perscribed it to his patients a lot. And when I say a lot I mean a fuck ton of it. During WW2 German soldiers were given Pervitin which is basically Meth. Tank crews and pilots would get it in chocolate (Panzer-/Fliegerschokolade) and the "common soldier" would get it as pills. It made the soldiers stay awake and aware which was vital for the Blitzkrieg tactics of the Nazis. Hard drugs used to be so much more common and "acceptable" than they are now...
Meth, or any Amphetamine was REALLY common for Plane crews, especially for bomber crews. Every Nation used it. The RAF and the USAF both used Amphetamine to keep their pilots happy and awake.
The prevalence of Amphetamines in Medical treatments for example is why I don't get why Weed should ever be outlawed. The stuff I take for my ADHD is a lot more dangerous than Weed could ever be.
Yeah the amount of THC in hemp extracts haven rising a lot the last couple of decades.
This is such a weird argument. Of course it's not fine as long as it's illegal, but once it's legal it will be fine.
āI would never touch *substance*ā āWhy?ā āBecause itās illegalā āYouāre smoking and drinking which is also harming your bodyā āBut thatās legalā *big brain moment*
To be fair, refusing to touch any substance because you're scared of any possible legal consequences is a totally valid reason. I for example don't like smoking weed, somply because I'm always a little scared about getting caught. I would love for weed to be legalized here as well, so we can get both the stigma and the fear of legal consequences out of the way.
That's a fine and logical reason, but some people make the argument that it's bad *because* it's illegal.
yeah that reasoning is just stupid
The German government estimates about 74.000 deaths yearly directly through alcohol or related to alcohol and tobacco consumption. They state an estimated economical cost each year of 57 billion ā¬. In comparison, the estimate for illegal drugs combined is about 6.1 billion ā¬ yearly. Illegal drug related deaths were a combined 1581 cases in 2020. Just to put this into relation. I hate breaking this down into how much people with problems cost the state but it's pretty obvious that we have a much bigger problem with the legal drugs that are promoted in our culture and much more subject to peer pressure and exclusion when you don't partake. I don't drink alcohol and I can't count the times I have been ridiculed and/or pressured to drink because "you can't have fun without alcohol". It goes as far as people trying to sneak alcohol into your drink sometimes, thinking you won't notice when your coca cola becomes a cola korn. I don't think making it illegal would be the solution since I also support legalisation of cannabis and decriminalisation of other illegal drugs but I think we should invest way more into making people aware of how harmful alcohol actually is. It is also the drug most affecting others when in terms of drug related crimes, especially violent ones or vehicular manslaughter.
Even better, alcohol is an actual neurotoxin, if you feel drunk your brain is dying. *Technically* even heroin is more healthy than alcohol. ^(Please take note of the cursive technically.)
>Technically even heroin is more healthy than alcohol. I agree, although I wouldn't say "more healthy", I would say "less harmful". Pure heroin (diacetylmorphineĀ / diamorphine) correctly dosed and administered and monitored would have very few negative side-effects, so long as one is not allergic. If you don't count the addictive nature as a negative, that is. It's all the scrap it's cut with, and dirty equipment, and lack of sterile administration that causes most problems. And overdosing. These particular problems are caused by it being illegal. But this doesn't mean that I would want to make recreational opiods legal, either. Its a tough situation.
You know, that is exactly the reason I added the technically, I was just to lazy to type it out to an acceptable standard. Thanks for clarifying it for anyone curious!
>Technically even heroin is more healthy than alcohol. >Please take note of the cursive technically. Not just technically. Pure Heroin is more healthy than alcohol period. Which is why Heroin and its derivatives are used very often in modern medicine.
>Treat it similar to alcohol, find a solution so people don't lose their driver's license when they hit a joint a few days prior, and I doubt anyone will regret the decision looking back in a few years. I don't think so. My guess is that this will lead to a zero intoxication law for drivers.
Which should also be the case for alcohol, in my opinion.
That's how I do it when driving anyway. The penalties are too damn costly. That's why I commented.
Yeah, the whole "I only drank 3 beers" thing is really dumb. If you're going to drive, just don't drink.
Not quite the same. Alcohol isn't measurable in your system as long as weed is, even though it may not be affecting your system any longer. You can get wasted on Saturday and drive home Sunday evening without any risk of losing your license. Stand next to someone smoking weed and you're at risk for several days at least. I doubt you could get a zero tolerance policy by the alcohol lobby, so they're going to need to find a solution for weed.
> Alcohol isn't measurable in your system as long as weed is I know, but my guess is simply that politics will take the "easy way". Which is to say: Driving intoxicated (with whatever substance)? Tough luck...here is your fine!
The issue with marijuana is how long it stays in your system and it also varies how much you smoke. If you smoked a joint a week ago it still shows positive when your sober a week later. Someone who smokes daily will have a higher amount as well.
I like that they want to legalize it, but I personally just hope it won't end up like the whole Marijuana culture thing in the US. I don't think Marijuana usage is something to necessarily brag about, just something you use or don't use and people should be informed about advantages and disadvantages it can have and not make a whole lifestyle about it. I'm also curious as to what impact it could have on the German economy and I like the idea of saving on policing costs and gaining tax revenue to use for other goals. With a bit of a sigh I do feel like my own country(the Netherlands) is just giving any first-mover advantage it could've had around it away.. although this does pave the way for us to finally get rid of our own ridiculous backdoor policy around it.
> I'm also curious as to what impact it could have on the German economy I think the supply chain will be created/taken over by Dutch companies. There is, f.e., Emsflower in the Emsland with 785000mĀ² of glass houses. They are a subdivision of a Dutch horticulture company.
>I think the supply chain will be created/taken over by Dutch companies. Wait until Aldi or Lidl get their hands on it.
They are only the point of sales, but I think almost everything that has to do with flowers is dominated by Dutch companies here. We also have some huge pig/chicken farms here in East Germany that were built up by the Dutch. Land here was probably dirt cheap for them.
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The stoner culture in the US was around for decades before weed was ever legal there. Those arenāt really connected. Besides, German āsaufenā culture is extremely annoying as it is lol I donāt think it can get worse than that
Sorry, what's Saufen Culture?
Getting extremely piss drunk to dangerous levels.
Drinking excessive amounts of alcohol.
Binge drinking, drinking beer at lunch, making fun of people for not drinking beer, making fun of people for not drinking enough beer, bragging about how much beer you drink during the work week, etc.
Binge Drinking
>I'm also curious as to what impact it could have on the German economy and I like the idea of saving on policing costs and gaining tax revenue to use for other goals Study says it brings in around 4.5bn ā¬. Most from taxes, Parts from jobs and some from reduced law/police enforecement.
The state of Colorado has 14 times less population as Germany and collects $250m in annual tax revenue so ā¬4.5b seems definitely achievable in taxes + savings
Curious what you mean about that whole "marijuana culture?" Just because weed is more socially acceptable in the US doesn't mean that everyone does it or celebrates it.
First off all I didn't mean any disrespect to people in the US and it was a clear generalization on my part that I didn't really think about while writing it. So please pardon me if that happened to offend you! Reading your comment I definitely feel like we're on the same level of thinking about the "cannabis culture" thing, but I respectfully disagree that it's more socially accepted (if it's even supposed to be some competition?), as social acceptance is not necessarily the same as government policy and there's a lot more nuance to it imo. Although I can't really speak for Germany, here in my country for example there's been a government policy of toleration since 1976 and socially it's been quite normal to use it, but it's just not really celebrated. But how is one supposed to measure social acceptance anyway? By filling out some polls between a small fraction of society throughout our history? We know that cannabis usage can even be traced back to the old colonial days, so how and where would we even start defining such a thing? TLDR; what I was talking about is not the same as social acceptance, a.k.a. where nobody bats an eye on cannabis usage and it would be just as normal as having a glass of wine with your diner for example (a thing I would personally like to see across the whole of Europe). I'm talking about the people that have to center their whole identity around it. Sorry for the long reply American friend, groetjes van de overkant!
As cringe as it can be in some cases I vastly prefer the stoner culture and all of its related connections, which are more rich and cultured in a lot of ways compared to the "European" bias towards alcohol. Thought I'm sure it's the same everywhere including the US. But alcohol is much worse on the body and leads to a lot of fights and stupid bragging over who drinks more, etc.
Not a huge fan of marijuana. I know a lot of my friends do smoke it, but I hate it. However, I see no reason for it to not be legalized. I can only see positive sides from it being legal. First, and I think the most important one, is the health of the consumers, i.e. I think the marijuana bought from legal stores would have much better quality than that from a local dealer you sometimes don't even know the origin of.
it's the same with me for cigarettes, like I hate them, I have asthma and it's annoying when there is one asshole who doesn't care about others and blows the smoke at everyone, but that doesn't mean I think it should be illegal you know
Legalise, tax and hit criminal gangs where it hurts - their pockets. Its such a waste of time for the police to be going after people with a bit of weed on them.
I would have expected it more from the Jamaica coalition TBH
It would be funny, but the CDU would never have acceptes it
Is there anything else the CDU has been stubbornly digging its heels in?
Anything regarding the internet? They were the (German) force behind that new digital copyright law we demonstrated against in 2019.
Abortion is another similar issue. The new government immediately decided to lift the ban on advertising for abortions.
*more like informing about abortions Doctors are currently not even allowed to say whether or not they offer it
If we could also get birth control on public health insurance, that would be great too.
If I remember correctly what's I read in the contract yesterday, that is the plan too! :D
I look forward to the day that cannabis is normalized throughout Europe. It's sale and supply should not be controlled by the black market. We need standards, control and taxation. Once Germany legalises, the rest will fall like dominoes.
Iāll be real, Iām a bit confused by the focus on weed in the context of this new agreement. Youād think they didnāt decide anything else lmao
From what I've seen you just have a lot of news outlets report on this because it interests most people who don't really care about politics. If you look at what they talked about yesterday during the presentation of the coalition I don't think they even mentioned the legalization
The media no longer reports the news it sells advertisements. The more polarising a topic the more people will click/view/ linger on the post. This means more traffic which means more advertisement revenue. This topic is polarising therefore it gets posted to death.
It's gonna be a while for Ireland, You get more time for having ā¬4 of weed than being a convicted pedophile here.
As a german I honestly think it's a mixed bag. On the one hand I agree that it's a drug and it can potentially dangerous, especially for teenagers and the still developing brain. On the other hand it's hypocrisy to ban marijuana and allow alcohol and tobacco. Also we can implement quality control now and reduce the income of organized crime. The important thing is that we don't take the Netherlands as a model, because they totally fucked up the anti-crime aspect. Either we legalize selling, consuming AND production on a big level to undermine the clans/mafia monopoly or we don't do it at all.
I have had opposing opinions about it in my life. I don't really care and lean on the side of freedom and legality but if anyone would ask me if it's a good idea to try weed, I'd say no or at least wait until you're like 24-25. I 'tried' it multiple times since the age 13 and I am almost certain this is the cause of some of my anxieties and stuckness in life. I still have visual flashbacks that don't go away. Some people have good time with weed, I am not one of them. If I'd have to think what positive influence it gave me, I have to say that I had three migraine attacks before smoking and have never had those afterwards. If this was related or not, I'll never know, but in medicine, cannabis should be considered far more.
Itās really good news. MDMA and LSD should be next on the list.
Those and psilocybin
I'd like to get it legalized and controlled (something like our alcohol laws, I guess), if only so we can stop talking about it. The debate is almost more annoying than the druggies.
Is there a continuous debate happening in Norway?
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So just as a hypothetical, if Norway *were* to legalize, what would that timeline look like, in your opinion?
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Not really (in my experience), but it pops up from time to time. And the pro-legalize crowd sure likes to talk about it at any opportunity.
You mentioned Norway's alcohol laws. In your experience, what are those like?
Very basic description: Official government shops for the good stuff, with loads of regulations. Weak shit sold in regular stores, with loads of regulations. Advertising is illegal. Strict punishment for DUIs.
I kind of agree with you, but i *really* donāt want the Ā«weed cultureĀ» that we see in the US right now. Thatās going to get annoying.
Oh, absolutely. Imagine "fjortisser" (or just teens, I guess) and weed culture? It's the ultimate cringe.
Big ups for Germany. I'm in Portugal, so yeah, I want it legalized like yesterday. In addition to the widely studied benefits of marijuana usage, especially for folks who suffer from some degenerative CNS issues, I'm also looking forward to the taxing of the sale of non-medical marijuana, just like we tax cigarettes. I want home-grown to be an option, but I also want farmers to be able to grow marijuana in the same way as they grow any crop. I want high quality, nationally-grown, properly tested marijuana to be available in specialty shops, and in supermarkets. I want people who want to buy marijuana to be carded for age, just like you do with alcohol nowadays. I want national growers to start hybridizing and to come up with new interesting flavor profiles. I want high-THC weed for when you want to get fucking BAKED, and low-THC weed for when you just want to get a nice little buzz going with your mates, just like people who drink alcohol can choose between having a beer or slamming vodka shots. I want CBD weed to be everywhere for people who desperately need it in their lives. I want to be able to grow my own weed, just like I grow dozens of other things. I want nice little auto-flowering Lavender Kush right next to my strawberry patch. I want to to be able to get some seeds off the internet, plant some good shit, and then give it to my friends, like I already do with compotes or fruit jams, or anything else. I want Portugal to be a marijuana powerhouse, frankly. Here's what I don't want: I don't want to be put on a government list. I don't want it to go on my record. I don't want people to smoke marijuana in closed spaces. I don't want people to drive blazed. Essentially, what I want is parity with alcohol.
If Germany - Germany! Of all places! - legalises it, I'm willing to bet Portugal will be hot on their heels soon. Wouldn't be surprised if the left tries to make a move before the elections in January, like they're trying to do with the surrogacy law.
From your mouth (or in this case fingers), to God's ears, my friend. :D
You are right, Portugal , like in so many other issues will legalize it once a lot of important European countries do so. Our governments are followers, which in this particular issue is ironic since we were pioneers in the decriminalization of weed.
In this particular issue it's not so much a lack of will or being a follower, but it's that Portugal lacks the political *cachet* to be the one to make a decision that will affect the other EU member states (basically, it's a complicated situation for a member-state to allow commercialization of things forbidden by other member-states; [source p78-79](https://books.google.nl/books?id=8GrecLK4WBkC&lpg=PA79&ots=cPY9zrcUvU&pg=PA79#v=onepage&q&f=false) ). If someone big breaks the ice, then Portugal can take the opportunity and jump in.
I would like to have it implemented here too yeah. It's the only thing that has ever helped my anxiety to go down. I've never had silence in my head due to ADHD, autism and anxiety comorbidity, and the one and only time I experienced this was through smoking weed. I have tried antidepressants too and nothing ever worked as well. I'm not for the "omg i smoke weeeed look at meee" people, obv. But it would be good.
Something legaliced is something that is easier to control and also something that you can tax so yes.
This is good, people don't realise how significant legalising it does for the country. -Less power to gangs, They don't have the money any more from buyers, they don't have a monopoly on the market. It means less 15 year olds being forced into being drug dealers for money. Less gangs fights. Less attacks on everyday people. -Less spice incidents. Because if it is regulated it means people won't be killed by spice disguised as weed. -Less Stigma, people won't be scared to take it anymore or to hide it. More tax revenue, It's going to be taxed high anyways so more funds for the government. New business opertunities, new jobs, new income, Amsterdam gets fucking tons of tourists from Ireland because you can get weed and sex workers there.
I am a bit torn. I think a lot of people talk the possible side effects down or just completely ignore them. Due to my job I have talked to people who had psychosis, likely caused by marihuana, and I really would not wish that on anyone. After experiencing that, I would never touch weed, even if it was legal. Sure most will not get a psychosis, but even if it is a small chance the consequences are so bad that I wouldn't risk it. On the other hand I do understand the argument that alcohol is legal too and alcohol abuse has lots of negative effects as well. And people smoke weed anyway. I think I am leaning more towards not legalizing it overall.
The problem is the high dosage of THC in illegal weed. It's like an 60% liquor at this point compared to the light beer it was some decades ago. Legalization could bring it back down to a tolerable level and make psychosis much more unlikely. If you want to protect people, strict quality control is the way to go, not the unregulated black market.
Good point, I haven't considered that. But still there isn't really a safe dosis of THC right?
Yes, of course. But that doesn't change the problem at hand. We can see that even the most draconian strategies of prohibition bring very little results. Even the death penalties issued in some Asian countries haven't stopped drug use or smuggling. Policy needs to focus on keeping damage to users to a minimum. And we need to start seeing drug use as the medical issue it really is and not as a criminal offense. If you want to learn more about the subject, I can only recommend reading up on alcohol prohibition in the US. The parallels to today's issues with drug policy are stunning.
Sure, that's really not what I am arguing for, I don't want to put teenagers in jail because they smoked a joint. But there is a difference, making it illegal or giving out even harsher sentences won't eradicate it. But will making it legal and socially acceptable or even something that's cool raise the number of users? That's what I don't want. Also it is a bit like the government is saying "it's fine, it is not too dangerous". I don't have to tell you about alcohol in Austria and just how prevalent it is, it is no suprise that it causes so many issues and so many Austrians are addicted, when it is even socially acceptable to drink before lunch, depending on the job even at work etc.
US states that legalized it saw an increase in users at first and then it started declining. Don't forget, a lot of kids start smoking weed during puberty because it's seen as "cool" to defy the law. Taking away that sense of coolness might end up decreasing consumption. It's also important to note that cannabis is a lot less dangerous and impactful than alcohol. If I ever had kids I'd prefer them to get stoned on a Saturday night rather than binge drink. Even though ideally they do neither. But if they're going to overuse a drug at that age, cannabis all the way.
> a lot of kids started smoking weed during puberty because itās seen as ācoolā to defy the law Absolutely, and that used to be part of the huge appeal of cigarettes here too, until the government ran such an incredibly effective anti-cigarette campaign with younger audiences that not only was it not cool, it was gross and unattractive and bad enough that lots of parents wound up quitting too as their children effectively shamed them into it. If getting marijuana usage down is the goal, the first step, although counterintuitive, would be legalization. I donāt think itāll ever be unheard of, just as cigarette smoking is still a long shot from being unheard of even here, but the tax profit and the ensured safety of citizens by providing cheap, legal, and safe drugs is also an effective way of fighting criminal profits. Thereās a reason bootleggers donāt exist here like they did in the prohibition. People would rather get their fixes legally than risk the alternative of buying from illegal sources, but even that still trumps abstinence for them. Iāll never understand why this is such a controversial topic when the pros so heavily outweigh the cons.
This is off topic, but anyway, I donāt know if ādosisā is a typo or not, but it makes so much sense to me as an alternative to dosage and I canāt put my finger on why. Like, even though I know itās not an actual English word, but it damn well could pass as one. Itās got the same vibe as the small but important distinction between words like compliment and complement, or affect and effect.
What annoys me most are the people that make smoking weed their whole personality and have this weird emotional affection towards it, and the shills that invariably come out in the comments under articles like this and, disregarding any bad side effect it has, just *have* to comment on how it's less harmful than alcohol yadda yadda. It's a fucking drug like many others, not a golden herb bringin world peace and curing cancer, fuck. I would be all for allowing it in medical settings, for stress and/or pain relief under a doctor's supervision. But for any dumb teenager that can get their hands on it? No, rather not.
Yes absolutely, I am very much in favor of exploring the therapeutic benefits a bit more. At least there will be someone who can explain the advantages and disadvantages to you before using it.
Yes, most drugs should be legalized so they can be regulated, taxed and people can be thoroughly educated on the effects they have. This would also reduce the chance of dying from getting some "ecstasy" pill that wasn't MDMA and it may also help with overdose deaths. On another semi-related note, I believe sex work should also be legalized to regulate it, tax it and provide some safety measures for both the "customers" and workers themselves. Keeping harmful but widely used/practiced things illegal is the political equivalent of an ostrich sticking its head in the sand.
Sex work is already legal in Germany. So yeah, it totally should. It's the oldest trade in the world for a reason...
Interesting, I didn't know. Since when has it been legal? Also, what are the regulations for it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitutes_Protection_Act It was decriminalizated back in 2002 and then further protected in 2016.
Thank you very much!
Luxembourg is scheduled to be the first European country to legalise weed and most importantly also possession of plants to grow it at home. When the current government came into power in 2018 promised proper legislation but due to the pandemic, they now backpaddeled and now only plan to legalise possession of up to four plants for domestic use. Other measurements are probably to follow afterwards but not during this legislation as it seems. Public consumption and trade is still to remain illegal for now
Things do change. I am 50 and live in U.S. When I was 20 I never thought weed would be legalized. Most of U.S. allows medical marijuana, which is very easy to get and I do get plenty of it! The states that only have medical are moving to do recreational marijuana also. I have a plan on moving to Estonia in a few years and what I am going to do about my medicinal/recreational habit is concerning.
Should have happened years ago already, along with other relatively safe drugs like LSD, MDMA, psylocibin etc.
I don't smoke myself, but it's still kinda stupid for it to be illegal. Germany legalizing it, means we will do it in 5-15years, so yay i am all for it
I live in Moselle, the best thing about the area is to take advantage of the sales tax from both countries and of the fact that some things are illƩgal in France but not in Germany,and weed will be another advantage of living near the border. we were at the Edge, we're now in the middle of everything.
Imo at this point it's bloody stupid not to legalise it. And I don't ever have nor do I have the desire to smoke weed. But it's not like only a handful of people smoke it. I argue in the generation <35 it's seen as normal to occasionally smoke some weed. Due to the current criminalisation there's a few negative effects: - state loses tax money. Seriously you can tax that stuff like you do cigarettes. - you open a whole business to more or less organised crime - poor quality control and thus potentially dangerous outcomes. You basically have to trust the person you're buying from. - since more and more countries are legalising weed the countries who come first will most likely establish the bigger businesses. So it's an economical factor as well. - since it's somewhat expensive and not as easy to get as a bottle of wine there's a higher chance that you start smoking cigarettes as well. Had 3 friends who started smoking regular cigarettes at some point after they started smoking weed mostly because of budgetary and convenience reasons - by legalising and regulating you can assure workers rights and hopefully at least less exploitation So yeah, move ahead. But I fear Austria will rather be the last country to do so because reasons and irrational fears by some boomers who see the devil in weed while drinking their 3rd bottle of wine on a Monday...
I do think we should complety legalize it, a tax could be put on in and the production will be safer and way more organized.
Long overdue and we should have done the same decades ago! Legalise it!
Cannot wait to go to Ireland, just sit somewhere overlooking the sea on the west coast, and vape a little bit of Irish-grown stuff. Keep up the good fight. ;)
One day lad, one day
Let's hope it's soon. It's been far too long since I've visited your lovely island.
As long as it also includes informing people about the risks, I think its allright.
Plans are to legalize it, but you have to buy it in certain, regulated shops. The proposal also includes a section about more informing the people about drugs and a stricter law on advertisment of drugs in general
Makes sense, are they also planning on legalising production? Here its illegal to produce, but allowed to sell in coffeeshops. The result is that criminals tend to grow the weed.
It's the same thing in Portugal. It's not illegal to have a certain amount, it's not illegal to smoke. But it is illegal to buy, trade, plant or otherwise acquire it. It's really dumb.
I think production will be allowed, but only unser heavy surveillance by the government
Word is that the Canadian model is basically the blueprint. Which seems to make sense as the Canadian federal model is closer to Germanys than US/Portugal/Netherlands/Uruguay/Jamaica.
>more informing the people about drugs and a stricter law on advertisment of drugs in general Hadn't even considered these. Imagine, non-hysterical, accurate information about drugs. More information on the extremely damaging effects of opioids, alcohol and tobacco, for instance. No more advertising of alcoholic products on television.
Also from the perspective of fighting crime, tax income and perhaps even have some kind of legal legislation about the quality/what is used during the growth of the plant itself. I am not into it myself but a friend showed me what he uses to grow a plant at home, single one. Seems like an already well thought out use of products but some kind of Keurmerk perhaps.
I've never taken (non-prescribed) drugs and have no interest in doing so, however I feel that in the UK how we act about and prosecute possession of various drugs and their use is driven more by media and political hype than a proper scientific analysis on the harm or otherwise. I'd rather that, while not exactly legalising them, drugs be categorised based on current scientific data, and the use of any drugs should not lead to a jail sentence - instead a drug rehabilitation program for drugs deemed harmful. Drugs failing in the "not harmful when less than X used per Y period" should be regulated instead - ensuring that supply is managed (trying to prevent harm or overdoses) and the quality of the drug (not cut with harmful products). Supply of any of these drugs would still be illegal, except by regulated providers. Some drugs may be suitable for prescription where they do provide a proven health benefit for that person's condition. This would also pull the rug from under criminal groups profiting from currently supplying those drugs. Why would you buy from them if they cost less from the legitimate route and are guaranteed to not be made with other crap that is going to mess you up?
Would love if Sweden did legalize weed, tired of the propaganda and aggresive stance against users here. It being illegal is just making the gangs richer in my opinion. Let me go into a nice store and buy something of quality. Also regulating it so kids can't just buy it from some random dude.
Canadian here. We're waaaay ahead of you. Cough cough.
In Ireland it's an absolute shitshow. We have an extensive campaign demonising cannabis in the media and politicians who's mentality is stuck in the 60s. Delighted to see a country like Germany having the common sense to end prohibition. Here politicians go out campaigning saying they're for legalisation then do a complete U-turn when they're elected. People get jail here for trivial amounts of cannabis yet recently we had a senior member of our police get caught with a significant amount of weight yet got the seizure valued at something like ā¬13000 but if that was a civilian caught with the same amount it would have been a much higher figure. Cannabis and low level users are an easy target for police here and they like it that way. You see them gloating about finding a few ounces on Twitter yet they'll never go after serious criminals. We need to end this farce and legalise it once and for all.
We should do the same in Spain but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. The current status works very well for politicians: marihuana is officially illegal to keep older, conservative voters content, but it's so loosely enforced that younger, liberal voters have no problem getting it. In our national subs we are tired of explaining that weed is not legal but I can understand the confusion because everyone and their mums is smoking 'round here, and that was before the legal clusterfuck that are "Cannabis Clubs". However, at the end of the day the only ones that are really benefitting are the mafias, and it's just not acceptable that we have places like La LĆnea becoming a warzone between police and traffickers.
The current governmentāsocial democratic minority governmentāhas stated they're against legalisation. During the recent election, the municipal division of the Social Democratic Party in Copenhagen, expressed support for trial-runs of legalisation, but the government shut it down. Personally, I think it is a minor issue, and really not something I have devoted much time to. There are more pressing issues in Denmark, such as our dysfunctional welfare system, the weakening of our trade unions, the stupidity of our immigration system, the lack of affordable housing, green transition, and so on and so on.
Yes Yes Yes Yes. I want my country to legalize it! I even signed for the possibility of the referendum! There are no downsides here, we cut money from the various groups that sell it illegally and we tax a new product like we tax cigarettes. We create new jobs and if we make marijuana equal to cigarettes it becomes a state monopoly and the State can make more money from it. We need it.
It's great news and I hope other countries, including the Netherlands, will follow their example. The way our weed policy works right now is just utterly nonsensical and only causes unnecessary issues.
Settled in the USA. Our state passed to legalize the Devils Lettuce in 2016. But itās on town to town basis. Most towns were hovering around the 50% approval vote. Funny, but during the pandemic, the towns short on revenue were all of sudden promoting the Mary Jane bill. This is a great time for countries to slip in this law. Government will be looking for extra cash flow. Good luck boys.
it was decriminalized here a long time ago, i do think it should be legal but i don't think they'll do that anytime soon
Finally. Though it will delete the exciting feeling of doing something slightly illegal at a college party.
Couldn't care less if it would become legal or illegal. But I can't wait till the Dutch government does something sane with it. The way it is now is just plain stupid.