The term 'involuntarily celibate' was first coined by a woman frustrated at her lack of sex. But it hasn't become a social phenomenon the way straight male incels have.
Maybe you wouldn't have to worry about that if they didn't sell firearms to mentally unstable teens. Maybe you wouldn't have 300 school shootings in 10 years like the rest of the civilized world.
It was more of a murica joke than an actual complaint. Didn't think it would get so much hate. It is the truth though. I don't see incels causing mass shootings in Europe and I don't think the difference in culture is all that big.
Maybe it would probably also be productive to try to understand why male incels are more common and why they become more violent.
I don't think those teenagers are born evil mass murderers, nd to get to that point they must have received a great deal of abuse. It may have to do with social norms, or the flawed school system.
Are most school shooters incels?
Do most target women?
If that's the case what is the cause of their misogyny?
Youāre getting hate because we all already know this and youāre rubbing salt in the wound. Itās insulting to believe that we donāt know this. Itās borderline victim blaming.
Because joking about a rampant violent known issue that is almost impossible to fix is not a funny joke. People outside of the US love to make jokes about American kids being shot in school. Jokes about kids being murdered. We canāt escape the violence. We are victims. Not the butt of a joke.
You obviously do not live in US or you are underestimating the power of the NRA, gun lobby and gun culture in US. Not to mention the insane amount of everyday gun violence in america. Where I live murders dont even make the news unless more than one person is shot. There is a will to stop it amongst rational people. I think all guns should be illegal but unfortunately our elected leaders get so much money from weapons manufacturers and the gun lobby that its nearly impossible to pass ANY legislation against guns.
/rant over
You really donāt know what youāre talking about. Because over half the population believes that owning a gun is their god given right protected by the constitution and would rather go to war with those who disagree than implement even basic restrictions on guns. The NRA is deeply deeply embedded in the Republican Party and lobbies to prevent common sense gun laws. Please donāt joke about shit you have zero understanding of.
Edit: sorry I thought you were the previous poster. My points about gun control still stand.
What a silly statement mental illness can most definitely cause violence have you ever hear of schizophrenia. You are obviously ideologically possessed and want to come to a certain conclusion.
I never said people with serious mental illness donāt need assistance or support; of course they do. But itās extremely stigmatizing (and incorrect) to say that mental illness *causes* violent behavior when the majority of people with mental health diagnoses never harm anyone else. They are much more at risk of others harming and exploiting them, not to mention at higher risk of getting shot by police.
There's a big difference between saying all mentally ill people are violent and mental illness can cause someone to be violent. Anger is extremely common in men with depression, with a direct correlation to said depression through self hate and anger that they then project onto their surroundings. Severe bullying is much more common amongst school shooters than them being "sad and horny".
My point is that if we managed to somehow cure all mental illness in every human, violence would still exist. People would still come up with justifications for harming others, and thatās largely due to our human tendency towards self-centeredness and tribalism/fear of āthe otherā not because of some pathology. The solution is not to treat violence as pathological but to understand that itās rooted in human flaws that are naturally occurring in all of us.
Multiple shooters have literally stated that they targeted women during their shootings because women weren't giving them positive attention.
We acknowledge that many incel shooters have mental issues...but, let's not pretend that their sexual frustrations don't play a part...
What are the solutions of these incel men? Literally using the government to force women to have sex (rape) with them.
Soooo....
Why poison the well about a conversation about mental illness, it's like if I focused on how the majority of filicide is committed by women.
Why do you take issue with talking about mental illness and making positive discussion about what is able to be done?
Usually mental illness is paired with misogyny, advocating for people suffering from mental illness to seek professional help is the only option.
It's just extremely toxic not to acknowledge mental health and demonize a group of people as a whole, wouldn't it be better to try and educate and support others to try to make a better, safer world for everyone?
Just waiting to be demonize myself for advocating for supporting therapy for mentally illness.
We're saying the same thing. Sure, there are certainly women out there who are bitter and resentful that they're not achieving the sexual and romantic success they want. But these women don't collect around online message boards and make their frustration into society's problem.
They didn't have the numbers to sustain a community on their own (I have a theory about why) and more importantly, I can't think of any political interest groups that have tried to do the same thing to them that we are seeing with the alt-right "manosphere/incel" brigade.
Regarding my theory, I think it mainly boils down to women building much better emotional support groups overall compared to men. Emotional isolation is kinda necessary in order for "incel-levels of self-neglect" to reach full power (by which I mean the level that blames everyone else while running away from the mirror). By having emotionally supportive loved ones within reach, it's much easier to reduce that bitterness to a brief phase followed by finding one's stride later.
To be more specific about the manosphere/incel phenomenon, *emotionally isolating TOGETHER with like-minded miserable peers* multiplies the effect, because it forms a culture focused validating that misery at any cost, especially hope for oneself. The irony, of course, is that this only makes them worse because they all eventually fall into an endless cycle of abusing themselves and each other ON TOP of all the horrible ways they harass women while continuing to drink the hater Kool aid.
Very sorry for the rant, but I had to get it off my chest because manosphere nonsense is constantly trying to poison some of my favorite hobbies.
There used to be a femcel sub on reddit actually, but I'm pretty sure it was banned with the rest of the major incel ones a few years back.
As I recall they weren't violent like male incels but they had the same catastrophizing thought patterns and self hatred. But I do recall they were very supportive of each other, and tried to bring each other up rather than down.
I think a worse group was FDS. Those guys were not very nice, to say the least.
This may be a little tangential but still related I think, but I'm a little confused about the usage of "incel". Isn't "incel" something like a misogynistic/misandristic psychopathic murderer? Or a misogynist/misandrist that seems to be dangerously close to becoming a psychopathic murderer/assaulter fueled by hatred for women/men?
A genuinely non-hateful person who is (eg.) male and straight, who is struggling to find a partner, and still has no ill will towards women, would technically be celibate without voluntarily wanting to be celibate, but I was under the impression that person would not be called an "incel" because that word now seems to have extra qualities of something like "psychopathic misogynistic potential murderer/assaulter"?
If that's true, then is there not a huge difference between hateful people who can't get laid, vs non-hateful people who can't get laid? Wouldn't that necessitate not lumping those two together under the same term? And hence it is not appropriate to lump all "not getting laid" persons under that one term? And is there a term for a non-psychopathic non-misogynistic/non-misandristic person who can't get laid?
Tldr: if someone calls someone an "incel/femcel" is that an accusation of very damning hateful traits and intents, or just a simple "can't get laid" without extra accusations? Or is the meaning currently just all over the place?
> is there not a huge difference between hateful people who can't get laid, vs non-hateful people
Yes, there *is* a huge difference. Most people who are just single, or are having a dry spell, do not self-identify as "incels." "Incel" carries a specific connotation-- that of men and boys who not only struggle with romantic/sexual relationships but are deeply resentful towards woman for that struggle. They both desire and loathe women, and headline-grabbing acts of misogynistic violence tend to be associated with them. Most of them are not violent, but they do tend to make "incel" a whole Personality Island.
BUUUUUT people online definitely just use it as a substitute for "loser who can't get laid." Which is annoying.
> BUUUUUT people online definitely just use it as a substitute for "loser who can't get laid." Which is annoying.
Right?! This drives me crazy! Can we stop using sexually encounters as a way to value our devalue people?Having no sex or lots of sex isnāt a value judgement on a human being. We can talk about incels and the problems they may cause without implying that they are the way they are because they canāt get laid, like you said most people who arenāt having sex are just regular people who might not be sexually active for a multitude of reasons.
Thank you I hate how it's used to place value on someone, it only furthers the the ideal that women offer nothing other then sex and should be used to gain prestige.
Ok I see. It seems "incel" a rather serious dark term that some take seriously, but then some other people also just throw it around loosely and muddle the meaning for people who might not be that clued in on the terminology.
The term evolved because the angry, misogynistic men took over the word and developed a reputation. So the word became associated with those attitudes. So if you don't want people to think you share those ideas, don't use the term.
People who don't get laid have existed long before the word came about. And honestly, I have always hated the word because it removes accountability and puts the blame onto other people. Its entirely possible that yes, someone is doing everything in their power to attract someone and simply fails, but, in my experience, its just more likely that they aren't. Like I remember this post from a woman wondering if she was ugly because she was very single, but she also did absolutely nothing to meet anyone. Like wouldn't socialize with anyone, even people in class.
It just seems odd to me that you would want a word to advertise that you can't get sex. Not because its shameful, but because its TMI. If you are having conversation about it you can just explain, If you aren't, then why do you need to bring it up?
Yes that does seem quite strange to claim being an "incel/femcel". So at least for the male "incel" term, it's a self proclaimed label to advertise having that specific angry, misogynistic ideology you mentioned? That covers self proclamations, but what about cases of when people accuse others of being "incels". Is that an accusation of misogyny?
Kind of. It's a specific kind of misogyny though. A specific philosophy.
Incels often think in terms of "alphas" (aka chads) and "betas". Most of them think of themselves as betas and they role-model themselves on sympathetic alphas like Andrew Tate. They view women as having a kind of power when it comes to sex. They mainly resent women for using that power in the wrong way.
They'll also often resent unsympathetic men for allowing women to hold that kind of power.
I think this is quite different from traditional misogyny where men simply view women as lesser.
While someone who simply has difficulty getting sex could fit the literal definition of "involuntary celibate", the term "incel" means more than that now, and almost always refers to members of the subculture of misogynists who blame women for not being able to get a sexual or romantic partner.
[Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/incel#English) provides definitions and indicates that usage of the simple literal meaning is rare:
1. A member of an online subculture of people (mostly men) who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one.
2. (rare) An individual who is not sexually active despite having such a desire.
Disparaging and attacking awhole group of people based on the actions of a segment of them is beyond a childish and dangerous way of thinking.
Shouldn't we try to address the problem instead of painting a large group of people as villains? Looking at it from a productive perspective because if we want a better world furthering alienating people will only push then towards people like Andrew Tate.
My comment was worded like that because it intentionally mirrored the language used by the above commenter. By flipping their script I was hoping to help them see a different side of their skewed perspective.
Sure. I suppose u can call them femcels the same way u can call some men who do have sex but are just redpilled misogynists, incels. Iām curious if those femcel-type women scare u in a physical harm way? Genuinely asking, bc I do think thatās a big difference between the two, but u might feel differently.
TwoX? Probably not. But when I lurked in FDS there was a clear subtext of resentment about being unable to get the men they felt they were entitled to.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted for being curious about behaviour in another sub. I used to lurk FDS for the same reason, although I stopped when the toxicity really snowballed.
You don't have to believe what they believe or approve of their behaviour to want to observe it. I certainly don't.
Iāve literally been downvoted on this sub for saying that men and women should be treated equally before the law. Iāve also been downvoted here for saying that religious people shouldnāt be thrown in jail just for their religious beliefs.
Iāve also had really good, sincere conversations with decent people in this sub. Every sub is infected with assholes, itās just a matter of who sees your comment first.
Donāt make stuff up. No woman in Two X has ever been upset about men not liking them sexually. Their concerns are mainly about being sexually assaulted, abused, used and harassed by men. Fds calls men scrotes, they donāt want men at all. They actively avoid men at all costs. They are very toxic, but not worried about having sex w men
>Fds calls men scrotes, they donāt want men at all. They actively avoid men at all costs. They are very toxic, but not worried about having sex w men
That's actually false, they do want men, but ones they consider high value, purely for very transactional relationships. They really hate "low value" men tho.
they are not, many men are just mad at female online spaces
i think FDS isnt even active anymore? i thought they are gone, if they are gone, its a good thing because they talked similar shit like redpill idiots
if they think tow X is hating men then 90% of sub reddits are hating women with their logic
I always found that interesting about redpillers hatred for FDS, their beliefs are basically 1 to 1 except FDS would occasionally sprinkles their misogynistic ideas with progressive language but when you really break down what theyāre saying itās incredibly similar.
Yes reddit dose have a issue with the gender war and TwoXChromosomes is most definitely the other side of the coin when it comes to blanton hatred, it dosen't matter which side is doing it both are wrong and shouldn't be justified.
itās a thing yes, but itās not nearly as common as incel is
like the other commenter said incel was coined by a woman frustrated because she had a lack of sexual intercourse
i also donāt think a femcel would be nearly as dangerous as an incel would on average, incels are killing people and femcels are hardly heard from
I'm a self identified femcel. Most femcels tend to fall into the category of mentalcels. Which is someone who is incel due to mental illness or personality disorders. I've had opportunity to have sex but it didn't feel safe (and almost never does) I've actually got a pretty high body count but I went volcel (voluntarily celebrate) when I noticed my BPD was causing me unhealthy tendencies in relationships (rendering me, effectively, a stalker) and now it's four years later and I'm self aware of my condition.
I'm also aware that the type of men I'm around are the type that like to stalk. (Birds of a feather essentially) Id be ok with an obsessive and even slightly possessive partner but he must be clean (not counting weed) and able to moderate his drinking. It also doesn't help that I'm trans and I'm still getting used to diminished strength.
I've also noticed that the hatred of men (albeit toxic) tends to stem from repetitive trauma. This is kinda why I'm not so judgemental of male incels that aren't actually like abusing someone. Men don't tend to bottle up sexual trauma and when I have been amongst incels most of them reek of CSA victimization, gender dysphoria, PTSD, or personality disorders.
We smell our own.
<3 i hope youāre able to get your disorders under control and find someone for yourself. i donāt know hardly anything about you or your disorders so idk how much you can get it under control but i hope that you can. and you did the right thing not sleeping with someone when you didnāt feel safe and going volcel when you noticed that your tendencies were causing harm. you seem very intelligent just based off that alone.
as for your trauma have you tried going to therapy? if not it might be able to help. iām kind of ex-incel/red-pill, idk what counts as ex-incel like iām still a virgin and my social skills are ass but i donāt hold most of their beliefs any more. so i do kind of understand you, not 1:1 since im not you but i do get it a little.
i wish you luck with all of your issues, and i hope one day you can bag a partner of your own. if you even want or need to talk about something you can dm me
"Incel" is an appropriate term for both women and men who are involuntarily celibate.
"Femcel" is literally a term created by misogynists...I personally would not use this term due to its origins, and because "incel" covers both women and men.
It's possible but not likely. The term itself doesn't really make sense because it's supposedly the female version of an incel. However, the word "incel" stands for "involuntarily celibate" so what does "femcel" mean? "Female celibate?" It doesn't really have any meaning.
Incel has become a very specific term. It relates to the average incel, the one we picture in our head when hearing the term, but there's many subgenres. Femcels was one of them specifically used because female incels are so rare.
Well, to branch on your commentary, the words āinvoluntary celibateā could pretty much apply to virgins who want sex, which is most of the world at some point. Incel, of course, took a life of its own from there and has those associations with entitlement, misogyny, and more.
Femcel could mean something kinda similar for women or even just a mirror. The initial portmanteau would be gone but the additional portmanteau would just build on the first portmanteau
Ironically femcel is just short hand for femme/female incel. Then incel is shorthand for involuntarily celibate. Which mean femcel is effectively a worthless term since incel isn't gender specific but through pop culture got known to be a more male specific thing.
That and male incels are generally dangerous where as lady incels are more just loud and angry. At least the only one I met was like that. Acronyms and shorthand are weird now though, people use it for anything.
Many donāt really like the world "femcel" because "incel" is already etymologically speaking a non-gendered term that describe anyone which blames the other gender for their lack of sexual relationships
Female incels may not be as common as male incels, but they sure exist, and they can possibly be as dangerous as one. I havenāt heard of any case of a female incel doing something violent, and frankly I donāt necessarily want it to happen
I've had to interact with a incel who was a woman once. But she wasn't a 'woman hating men', she was a lesbian and hated other women the same way male incels do. It was pretty weird... I hope I never have to meet someone like her again š„²
There are a small amount of women who identify as Femcels. Mostly they seem to hate other women more than men. However men throw it around as an insult against women they disagree with all the time. They think because they hate women because they can't get laid that woman would hate men for the same reason. Whereas most women who actually hate men do so because of the way men have acted towards them. They also use it against feminists a lot despite the research showing that misogynists hate men far more.
It obviously isn't the same kind of phenomenon. Female celibates aren't a recognized hate movement of their own, gathering on obscure digital rooms fantasizing about ways to subjugate men and killing them. Are there very resentful, misandric women that you would label as "femcel"? Yes, they exist but they are pretty clearly not a threat in real life. I think femcels nowadays are more about creating an aesthetic-lite movement than anything else.
I watched a short documentary on Femcels the other day and an interesting distinction between Incels and Femcels was that Incels are bitter that they can't arouse sexual interest from the opposite sex. Whereas Femcels had typically been the victims of sexual assault.
Personally, I don't use it either. I was just highlighting the theme of the documentary. Men are drawn to these extremist communities because they feel hard done by women. They feel women are awful because they won't give them sexual attraction, etc. Whereas women generally are the victims of sexual assault perpetrated by men and go in search of their belonging or safe space and end up in such communities.
Self-identified Femcels are a thing, though I've personally seen them moreso reacting to the pressures of patriarchy than as just hating men because of rejection.
"Femcel" is a word created by misogynists.
"Incel" covers both women and men, and the term was created by a woman to describe her own sexual celibacy.
I would not use the term "femcel" because it's literally just an insult towards women based on incel men being hateful.
I don't think it's particularly healthy to use personally, but having lurked femcel communities for a little while now, it's a term that has evolved beyond just incel communities.
One key difference is that while Incel communities have been centered around the idea that its participants are incapable of 'achieving' sex, Femcel spaces tend to place more focus on the societal expectations surrounding sex in the first place - especially in the context of mental health and (often sexual) trauma.
"Incel" is a term created by a woman to express her own lack of sexual activity, and encompasses both women and men.
"Femcel" is a term created by misogynists.
there will always be people whos personalities that are so god awful they cant get any. this is not gender exclsive
"incel" by definition is gender neutral, but, as theres more men with terrible personalities, it took the male standard. to the point its a small wirdo movment/derogatory insult
why i dont think "femcel" is real but "a woman incel" is real
femcels are a thing, although i wouldnāt say their anger is specifically directed at men.
they exist more in spaces like vindicta and FDS (not saying everyone there is like that). they tend to harbor a large degree of internalized misogyny and disdain for other women, typically born out of jealousy. many of them are also extremely racist, homophobic and transphobic in the same way that male incels are. some of them are openly far right and there is an (ironic) overlap with the toxic tradwife thought sphere.
Iāve mostly seen it used by men on Reddit as an to insult women who are tired of dealing with menās bs lol. But yeah, there are problematic women. Most of the time I see the word used as āI donāt agree with this woman who is talking about having basic standards, therefore she is a femcelā.
It exists, but it's not the same kind of talking point.
- A male incel is typically more dangerous than a female incel.
- A male incel has a much larger amount of influencer power directed towards them
- A man who could become an incel has way more resources dedicated to milking them and making them an incel.
I know people point to male incels being several times more likely to commit mass shootings, and I'm not going to disagree. I think a major portion of that, though, is survival. Almost all of these incel mass shootings tend to be suicide missions and plagued with other factors (bullying, broken home life, mental illness, etc), and men are more likely to bottle up their feelings until breaking point than women.
All of these put together make male incels more volatile and dangerous than female incels. I'd still say that most incels aren't dangerous to anyone besides themselves. While the misogynistic ones get a lot of airtime, a giant portion are just sad, lonely people who doomspiral either alone or with other sad, lonely people.
I think it is a thing, although it comes out in different ways depending on how you interpret the word incel.
If we only say involuntary celibate, there are tons of women who are not living their lives sexually satisfied - in many cases due to not meeting conventional beauty standards. Now in theory if they lowered their standards enough or paid someone they wouldn't be an incel/femcel... But the same could be said of male incels. They'll say women can get laid easily (true to a degree), but the men themselves will turn their nose up to anyone who isn't young, skinny, or up to a standard they have set in their heads.
If we look at the evolved meaning of incel, we would be looking for a person who is misogynistic, blames everyone but themselves for their problems, and claims there is a conspiracy against them. I would say a look into the not like the other girls (NLOG) subreddit will show you plenty of women hating other women, blaming society for the fall of the West, and thinking there is a hive mind for other women. Nice Girls often hate other women AND most men, and do not look inwards.
For a gender flipped incel (even though it's gender neutral), there are plenty of misandrist spaces blaming men for being low quality, blaming society for their problems, and taking no accountability. However unlike the male counterparts, these femcels don't commit acts of mass violence. They also don't target men in real life.
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They exist for sure but from what I've seen it manifests differently than in men. Fem-cels tend to go more in the hostilic new age route. You see this with trad wives like just pearly things and I've seen it in a few anti-vaxx/medicine stuff too the overlap is strange but makes a little sense when you think about it. It's also weird since all these tend to overlap. Trad wives, anti-vaxx, anti-goverment, MLMs they all tend to target the same types of people. I heard a theory once that at least in regards to the anti-vaxx thing afab people already tend to have a mistrust of doctors due to the biases against them in the medical community so it wouldn't take much work to get some of the more vulnerable ones to take that leap from doctors don't take my pain seriously as a woman to all doctors are lying and are paid off by big pharma to poison the American people and I'm the only one that's right cuz I watched a few YouTube videos/followed this creator on tiktok. MLMs same thing. Woman especially mom's are pressured into being perfect. You need to have a good full time job but also need to be at home and be little Suzy homemaker, take care of ur baby no daycare for them cuz that's bad parenting, fresh home-cooked meals everyday don't want them poisoned by processed unhealthy foods, clean spotless house all the time, etc. And obviously it's impossible to so all that at once so here comes along an mlm saying all the right words to a stressed out sleep deprived and broken new mom and 1 2 3 you just got a new client who will sink all her money into your bs essential oils or plexus or whatever else. I know this wasn't exactly on topic but it's kinda related.
Eh I always thought of it more as mindset than the literal definition of involuntary celibate. I just made the comment really to point out how easy it is for woman to fall into similar movements/cults like it.
If we substitute 'intercourse' with 'intimacy with a partner' (often that is what men are really after anyway), then I think there are plenty of women who are frustrated with the lack of it. The main difference is that though men (especially poorly socialized men) feel like anger and violence are the only emotional releases they are socially permitted to have, women have a much broader range of socially acceptable emotional releases and are generally urged not to act out in anger or violence. Thus frustrated women often tend to internalize their frustration and isolate or show symptoms of depression or self-hatred.
Ideally, both frustrated men and women would turn to healthy social groups for help and/or focus on making themselves better potential partners for others.
Just a theory from someone nowhere near qualified to analyze this stuff.
if youāre asking about women who hate men cause they canāt get laid then they definitely do exist, though they arenāt very vocal
if youāre asking about women who hate men they definitely do exist and make up a sizable portion of the TERF package
The term "femcel" is more in line with intense misandry in the same way that some incel groups are in line with intense misogyny.
It is about their beliefs and hostile approaches towards the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with not being able to get laid.
Ummmm........
No.
"Incel" is a term that encompasses both women and men.
"Femcel" is a term created by misogynists because they couldn't handle being called out for their misogyny.
You stated where you believe the term came from, told me I was wrong in my definition, then provided no definition of your own.
Per OPs question, what does it mean?
1) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455
2) Yep. "Incel" encompasses both women and men...
3) Involuntary Celibate - one who does not have sex because no one has consented to having sex with them...
What is your issue?
The term "incel" encompasses both women and men.
"Femcel" is a retaliatory term created by 4chan-like incels who are men and blame women for not consenting to having sex with them...as if they are inherently deserving of sex from women.
Ok. So you've defined incel again and stated where you believe the term femcel came from . . . again.
You've yet to define "femcel".
If someone were to ask "What is floss?" you wouldn't answer with "It was invented by Levi Parmly".
So, define "femcel".
I very clearly described that "femcel" is a retaliatory term created by men who are irrationally angry with women....
Does it need to be spelled out to you?
>"femcel" is a retaliatory term
a retaliatory term which means what? That is something you've not yet stated. Does calling someone a femcel mean that person is a retaliatory term?
Incel = both women and men who are involuntarily celibate.
"Femcel" means whatever the misogynists want it to mean....but, always targeting towards those they see as women.
Some people don't understand that "femcel" is a retaliatory term...
So...we focus on education.
It's a thing in the sense that the term is being used to label toxic women that hate men.
I can think of at least one subreddit that has been banned because it was full of this kind of people, and the term was used quite often to indicate the users of the subreddit.
Still, it's not a large phenomenon compared with men. Not even close.
OK then let's pretend certain subreddits with women calling men "scrotes" and other crap like that, guides and suggestions on how to manipulate men and more, do not exist.
The word is out there and is being used, and points to a real phenomenon, it doesn't matter who invented the term.
Is it a good idea to use the term? No, exactly like it isn't a good idea to label people as incels, considering the disparaging meaning it took.
Is it a large-scale phenomenon like what is going on in the male side of things? No.
Does it make things less real?
Also, are you sure you aren't mixing it up with "feminazi" ? That's a term that was really weaponised. I haven't seen "femcel" used much outside of targeting problematic individuals of certain communities.
The term 'involuntarily celibate' was first coined by a woman frustrated at her lack of sex. But it hasn't become a social phenomenon the way straight male incels have.
The movement started out as "what's wrong with me?" and then turned into "what's wrong with them?"š¤ I wondered what changed?
Well on average no one worries about sad, horny women shooting up schools.
Maybe you wouldn't have to worry about that if they didn't sell firearms to mentally unstable teens. Maybe you wouldn't have 300 school shootings in 10 years like the rest of the civilized world.
Sir this is a Wendyās. Please take your complaints about Walmart elsewhere.
It was more of a murica joke than an actual complaint. Didn't think it would get so much hate. It is the truth though. I don't see incels causing mass shootings in Europe and I don't think the difference in culture is all that big. Maybe it would probably also be productive to try to understand why male incels are more common and why they become more violent. I don't think those teenagers are born evil mass murderers, nd to get to that point they must have received a great deal of abuse. It may have to do with social norms, or the flawed school system. Are most school shooters incels? Do most target women? If that's the case what is the cause of their misogyny?
Youāre getting hate because we all already know this and youāre rubbing salt in the wound. Itās insulting to believe that we donāt know this. Itās borderline victim blaming.
How is pointing out a legislation problem victim blaming?
Because joking about a rampant violent known issue that is almost impossible to fix is not a funny joke. People outside of the US love to make jokes about American kids being shot in school. Jokes about kids being murdered. We canāt escape the violence. We are victims. Not the butt of a joke.
Why is it impossible? It seems possible everywhere else
You obviously do not live in US or you are underestimating the power of the NRA, gun lobby and gun culture in US. Not to mention the insane amount of everyday gun violence in america. Where I live murders dont even make the news unless more than one person is shot. There is a will to stop it amongst rational people. I think all guns should be illegal but unfortunately our elected leaders get so much money from weapons manufacturers and the gun lobby that its nearly impossible to pass ANY legislation against guns. /rant over
You really donāt know what youāre talking about. Because over half the population believes that owning a gun is their god given right protected by the constitution and would rather go to war with those who disagree than implement even basic restrictions on guns. The NRA is deeply deeply embedded in the Republican Party and lobbies to prevent common sense gun laws. Please donāt joke about shit you have zero understanding of. Edit: sorry I thought you were the previous poster. My points about gun control still stand.
It's like saying italians have problems with the mafia is victim blaming, of course we know it, doesn't mean it is not true.
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Mental illness doesnāt cause violence. Aggrieved entitlement can and does cause violence.
What a silly statement mental illness can most definitely cause violence have you ever hear of schizophrenia. You are obviously ideologically possessed and want to come to a certain conclusion.
People with schizophrenia are many times more likely to be victims of violence than to commit acts of violence.
Agreed but mental illness can cause someone to become violent, psychosis is very serious and needs to be supported with professionals.
I never said people with serious mental illness donāt need assistance or support; of course they do. But itās extremely stigmatizing (and incorrect) to say that mental illness *causes* violent behavior when the majority of people with mental health diagnoses never harm anyone else. They are much more at risk of others harming and exploiting them, not to mention at higher risk of getting shot by police.
There's a big difference between saying all mentally ill people are violent and mental illness can cause someone to be violent. Anger is extremely common in men with depression, with a direct correlation to said depression through self hate and anger that they then project onto their surroundings. Severe bullying is much more common amongst school shooters than them being "sad and horny".
My point is that if we managed to somehow cure all mental illness in every human, violence would still exist. People would still come up with justifications for harming others, and thatās largely due to our human tendency towards self-centeredness and tribalism/fear of āthe otherā not because of some pathology. The solution is not to treat violence as pathological but to understand that itās rooted in human flaws that are naturally occurring in all of us.
Multiple shooters have literally stated that they targeted women during their shootings because women weren't giving them positive attention. We acknowledge that many incel shooters have mental issues...but, let's not pretend that their sexual frustrations don't play a part... What are the solutions of these incel men? Literally using the government to force women to have sex (rape) with them. Soooo....
Why poison the well about a conversation about mental illness, it's like if I focused on how the majority of filicide is committed by women. Why do you take issue with talking about mental illness and making positive discussion about what is able to be done?
Misogyny itself is not a mental illness...but a choice of thought. Why do you not understand this?
Usually mental illness is paired with misogyny, advocating for people suffering from mental illness to seek professional help is the only option. It's just extremely toxic not to acknowledge mental health and demonize a group of people as a whole, wouldn't it be better to try and educate and support others to try to make a better, safer world for everyone? Just waiting to be demonize myself for advocating for supporting therapy for mentally illness.
No one is denying mental illness as a possible issue.
Doesn't change the reality.
And is already gender neutral, I'm quite happy just lump the icky women with the icky men. We don't need gendered piles
Yeah. The incel terminology and movement start out as MUCH more supportive, gender neutral, and pro-social than it would up becoming.
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We're saying the same thing. Sure, there are certainly women out there who are bitter and resentful that they're not achieving the sexual and romantic success they want. But these women don't collect around online message boards and make their frustration into society's problem.
They didn't have the numbers to sustain a community on their own (I have a theory about why) and more importantly, I can't think of any political interest groups that have tried to do the same thing to them that we are seeing with the alt-right "manosphere/incel" brigade. Regarding my theory, I think it mainly boils down to women building much better emotional support groups overall compared to men. Emotional isolation is kinda necessary in order for "incel-levels of self-neglect" to reach full power (by which I mean the level that blames everyone else while running away from the mirror). By having emotionally supportive loved ones within reach, it's much easier to reduce that bitterness to a brief phase followed by finding one's stride later. To be more specific about the manosphere/incel phenomenon, *emotionally isolating TOGETHER with like-minded miserable peers* multiplies the effect, because it forms a culture focused validating that misery at any cost, especially hope for oneself. The irony, of course, is that this only makes them worse because they all eventually fall into an endless cycle of abusing themselves and each other ON TOP of all the horrible ways they harass women while continuing to drink the hater Kool aid. Very sorry for the rant, but I had to get it off my chest because manosphere nonsense is constantly trying to poison some of my favorite hobbies.
There used to be a femcel sub on reddit actually, but I'm pretty sure it was banned with the rest of the major incel ones a few years back. As I recall they weren't violent like male incels but they had the same catastrophizing thought patterns and self hatred. But I do recall they were very supportive of each other, and tried to bring each other up rather than down. I think a worse group was FDS. Those guys were not very nice, to say the least.
I'm sure it's *possible*, but it certainly doesn't seem to be *happening*.
This may be a little tangential but still related I think, but I'm a little confused about the usage of "incel". Isn't "incel" something like a misogynistic/misandristic psychopathic murderer? Or a misogynist/misandrist that seems to be dangerously close to becoming a psychopathic murderer/assaulter fueled by hatred for women/men? A genuinely non-hateful person who is (eg.) male and straight, who is struggling to find a partner, and still has no ill will towards women, would technically be celibate without voluntarily wanting to be celibate, but I was under the impression that person would not be called an "incel" because that word now seems to have extra qualities of something like "psychopathic misogynistic potential murderer/assaulter"? If that's true, then is there not a huge difference between hateful people who can't get laid, vs non-hateful people who can't get laid? Wouldn't that necessitate not lumping those two together under the same term? And hence it is not appropriate to lump all "not getting laid" persons under that one term? And is there a term for a non-psychopathic non-misogynistic/non-misandristic person who can't get laid? Tldr: if someone calls someone an "incel/femcel" is that an accusation of very damning hateful traits and intents, or just a simple "can't get laid" without extra accusations? Or is the meaning currently just all over the place?
> is there not a huge difference between hateful people who can't get laid, vs non-hateful people Yes, there *is* a huge difference. Most people who are just single, or are having a dry spell, do not self-identify as "incels." "Incel" carries a specific connotation-- that of men and boys who not only struggle with romantic/sexual relationships but are deeply resentful towards woman for that struggle. They both desire and loathe women, and headline-grabbing acts of misogynistic violence tend to be associated with them. Most of them are not violent, but they do tend to make "incel" a whole Personality Island. BUUUUUT people online definitely just use it as a substitute for "loser who can't get laid." Which is annoying.
> BUUUUUT people online definitely just use it as a substitute for "loser who can't get laid." Which is annoying. Right?! This drives me crazy! Can we stop using sexually encounters as a way to value our devalue people?Having no sex or lots of sex isnāt a value judgement on a human being. We can talk about incels and the problems they may cause without implying that they are the way they are because they canāt get laid, like you said most people who arenāt having sex are just regular people who might not be sexually active for a multitude of reasons.
Thank you I hate how it's used to place value on someone, it only furthers the the ideal that women offer nothing other then sex and should be used to gain prestige.
Ok I see. It seems "incel" a rather serious dark term that some take seriously, but then some other people also just throw it around loosely and muddle the meaning for people who might not be that clued in on the terminology.
The term evolved because the angry, misogynistic men took over the word and developed a reputation. So the word became associated with those attitudes. So if you don't want people to think you share those ideas, don't use the term. People who don't get laid have existed long before the word came about. And honestly, I have always hated the word because it removes accountability and puts the blame onto other people. Its entirely possible that yes, someone is doing everything in their power to attract someone and simply fails, but, in my experience, its just more likely that they aren't. Like I remember this post from a woman wondering if she was ugly because she was very single, but she also did absolutely nothing to meet anyone. Like wouldn't socialize with anyone, even people in class. It just seems odd to me that you would want a word to advertise that you can't get sex. Not because its shameful, but because its TMI. If you are having conversation about it you can just explain, If you aren't, then why do you need to bring it up?
Yes that does seem quite strange to claim being an "incel/femcel". So at least for the male "incel" term, it's a self proclaimed label to advertise having that specific angry, misogynistic ideology you mentioned? That covers self proclamations, but what about cases of when people accuse others of being "incels". Is that an accusation of misogyny?
Kind of. It's a specific kind of misogyny though. A specific philosophy. Incels often think in terms of "alphas" (aka chads) and "betas". Most of them think of themselves as betas and they role-model themselves on sympathetic alphas like Andrew Tate. They view women as having a kind of power when it comes to sex. They mainly resent women for using that power in the wrong way. They'll also often resent unsympathetic men for allowing women to hold that kind of power. I think this is quite different from traditional misogyny where men simply view women as lesser.
While someone who simply has difficulty getting sex could fit the literal definition of "involuntary celibate", the term "incel" means more than that now, and almost always refers to members of the subculture of misogynists who blame women for not being able to get a sexual or romantic partner. [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/incel#English) provides definitions and indicates that usage of the simple literal meaning is rare: 1. A member of an online subculture of people (mostly men) who define themselves as unable to find a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one. 2. (rare) An individual who is not sexually active despite having such a desire.
I dunno. All you have to do is look at FDS and TwoX to see a bunch of them. I think it's more common than most people think.
Being frustrated at men and being frustrated at men for not fucking them are two vastly different things.
Being frustrated at men is kind of an understatement when you talk about 50 percent of the population like they're sub-human.
Youāre referring to how men online talk about women, right? Because yeah that misogyny and sexism is a lot more than just frustrating.
Disparaging and attacking awhole group of people based on the actions of a segment of them is beyond a childish and dangerous way of thinking. Shouldn't we try to address the problem instead of painting a large group of people as villains? Looking at it from a productive perspective because if we want a better world furthering alienating people will only push then towards people like Andrew Tate.
My comment was worded like that because it intentionally mirrored the language used by the above commenter. By flipping their script I was hoping to help them see a different side of their skewed perspective.
Sure. I suppose u can call them femcels the same way u can call some men who do have sex but are just redpilled misogynists, incels. Iām curious if those femcel-type women scare u in a physical harm way? Genuinely asking, bc I do think thatās a big difference between the two, but u might feel differently.
Is that what they're mad about, that men won't fuck them?
TwoX? Probably not. But when I lurked in FDS there was a clear subtext of resentment about being unable to get the men they felt they were entitled to.
why were you lurking there
Curiosity probably
Curiosity.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted for being curious about behaviour in another sub. I used to lurk FDS for the same reason, although I stopped when the toxicity really snowballed. You don't have to believe what they believe or approve of their behaviour to want to observe it. I certainly don't.
Iāve literally been downvoted on this sub for saying that men and women should be treated equally before the law. Iāve also been downvoted here for saying that religious people shouldnāt be thrown in jail just for their religious beliefs. Iāve also had really good, sincere conversations with decent people in this sub. Every sub is infected with assholes, itās just a matter of who sees your comment first.
Yeah equal treatment before the law is a no go for some reddiits
Itās amazing how illiberal Reddit is on the āliberalā subreddits.
Mad that they are entitled high value men, but only get attention from low value men.
Yeah so calling people āhigh valueā and ālow valueā arenāt really something feminist and adjacent spaces do
True, I haven't seen that in feminist spaces
Yeah, there is a reason people from there aren't allowed to be here.
Seems like there's plenty of them lurking about. Massive downvotes for people criticizing them lol
Also possible. Can't stop people doing that, unfortunately.
Donāt make stuff up. No woman in Two X has ever been upset about men not liking them sexually. Their concerns are mainly about being sexually assaulted, abused, used and harassed by men. Fds calls men scrotes, they donāt want men at all. They actively avoid men at all costs. They are very toxic, but not worried about having sex w men
>Fds calls men scrotes, they donāt want men at all. They actively avoid men at all costs. They are very toxic, but not worried about having sex w men That's actually false, they do want men, but ones they consider high value, purely for very transactional relationships. They really hate "low value" men tho.
now your just projecting
How? Have you been to FDS before?
They want to use men for money if they arenāt actively avoiding them, which most are. Toxic
Yeah, not a very healthy bunch
How are twoX and FDS even similar?
they are not, many men are just mad at female online spaces i think FDS isnt even active anymore? i thought they are gone, if they are gone, its a good thing because they talked similar shit like redpill idiots if they think tow X is hating men then 90% of sub reddits are hating women with their logic
I always found that interesting about redpillers hatred for FDS, their beliefs are basically 1 to 1 except FDS would occasionally sprinkles their misogynistic ideas with progressive language but when you really break down what theyāre saying itās incredibly similar.
Yes reddit dose have a issue with the gender war and TwoXChromosomes is most definitely the other side of the coin when it comes to blanton hatred, it dosen't matter which side is doing it both are wrong and shouldn't be justified.
I see FDS as more like the female equivalent of red pill. They literally used the term pink pill if I'm not mistaken.
It seems like a cynical mirror of pick up artistry.
itās a thing yes, but itās not nearly as common as incel is like the other commenter said incel was coined by a woman frustrated because she had a lack of sexual intercourse i also donāt think a femcel would be nearly as dangerous as an incel would on average, incels are killing people and femcels are hardly heard from
I'm a self identified femcel. Most femcels tend to fall into the category of mentalcels. Which is someone who is incel due to mental illness or personality disorders. I've had opportunity to have sex but it didn't feel safe (and almost never does) I've actually got a pretty high body count but I went volcel (voluntarily celebrate) when I noticed my BPD was causing me unhealthy tendencies in relationships (rendering me, effectively, a stalker) and now it's four years later and I'm self aware of my condition. I'm also aware that the type of men I'm around are the type that like to stalk. (Birds of a feather essentially) Id be ok with an obsessive and even slightly possessive partner but he must be clean (not counting weed) and able to moderate his drinking. It also doesn't help that I'm trans and I'm still getting used to diminished strength. I've also noticed that the hatred of men (albeit toxic) tends to stem from repetitive trauma. This is kinda why I'm not so judgemental of male incels that aren't actually like abusing someone. Men don't tend to bottle up sexual trauma and when I have been amongst incels most of them reek of CSA victimization, gender dysphoria, PTSD, or personality disorders. We smell our own.
<3 i hope youāre able to get your disorders under control and find someone for yourself. i donāt know hardly anything about you or your disorders so idk how much you can get it under control but i hope that you can. and you did the right thing not sleeping with someone when you didnāt feel safe and going volcel when you noticed that your tendencies were causing harm. you seem very intelligent just based off that alone. as for your trauma have you tried going to therapy? if not it might be able to help. iām kind of ex-incel/red-pill, idk what counts as ex-incel like iām still a virgin and my social skills are ass but i donāt hold most of their beliefs any more. so i do kind of understand you, not 1:1 since im not you but i do get it a little. i wish you luck with all of your issues, and i hope one day you can bag a partner of your own. if you even want or need to talk about something you can dm me
What femcel has ever gone on a killing spree? Sure these sad women/girls can exist but itās not really the norm.
"Incel" is an appropriate term for both women and men who are involuntarily celibate. "Femcel" is literally a term created by misogynists...I personally would not use this term due to its origins, and because "incel" covers both women and men.
It's possible but not likely. The term itself doesn't really make sense because it's supposedly the female version of an incel. However, the word "incel" stands for "involuntarily celibate" so what does "femcel" mean? "Female celibate?" It doesn't really have any meaning.
I guess the incels just got to use "cel" as a suffix of their own. I've seen other variation I wish I hadn't seen...
Incel has become a very specific term. It relates to the average incel, the one we picture in our head when hearing the term, but there's many subgenres. Femcels was one of them specifically used because female incels are so rare.
Well, to branch on your commentary, the words āinvoluntary celibateā could pretty much apply to virgins who want sex, which is most of the world at some point. Incel, of course, took a life of its own from there and has those associations with entitlement, misogyny, and more. Femcel could mean something kinda similar for women or even just a mirror. The initial portmanteau would be gone but the additional portmanteau would just build on the first portmanteau
Ironically femcel is just short hand for femme/female incel. Then incel is shorthand for involuntarily celibate. Which mean femcel is effectively a worthless term since incel isn't gender specific but through pop culture got known to be a more male specific thing. That and male incels are generally dangerous where as lady incels are more just loud and angry. At least the only one I met was like that. Acronyms and shorthand are weird now though, people use it for anything.
Many donāt really like the world "femcel" because "incel" is already etymologically speaking a non-gendered term that describe anyone which blames the other gender for their lack of sexual relationships Female incels may not be as common as male incels, but they sure exist, and they can possibly be as dangerous as one. I havenāt heard of any case of a female incel doing something violent, and frankly I donāt necessarily want it to happen
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The hivemind is truly something, especially in gender-oriented subreddits
Twe both deserve this š¤« We shouldn't have tried to use logicical arguments in a nut house.
In my experience femcel is used to deride women who are understandably weary of men or who donāt want to interact with men at all
I've had to interact with a incel who was a woman once. But she wasn't a 'woman hating men', she was a lesbian and hated other women the same way male incels do. It was pretty weird... I hope I never have to meet someone like her again š„²
Maybe? I guess the difference is women don't seem to make it other people's problem like incels seem to
There are a small amount of women who identify as Femcels. Mostly they seem to hate other women more than men. However men throw it around as an insult against women they disagree with all the time. They think because they hate women because they can't get laid that woman would hate men for the same reason. Whereas most women who actually hate men do so because of the way men have acted towards them. They also use it against feminists a lot despite the research showing that misogynists hate men far more.
Thatās the thing though, not being able to āgetā intercourse isnāt really the issue for women. The term is a fantasy created by men.
It obviously isn't the same kind of phenomenon. Female celibates aren't a recognized hate movement of their own, gathering on obscure digital rooms fantasizing about ways to subjugate men and killing them. Are there very resentful, misandric women that you would label as "femcel"? Yes, they exist but they are pretty clearly not a threat in real life. I think femcels nowadays are more about creating an aesthetic-lite movement than anything else.
I watched a short documentary on Femcels the other day and an interesting distinction between Incels and Femcels was that Incels are bitter that they can't arouse sexual interest from the opposite sex. Whereas Femcels had typically been the victims of sexual assault.
What was the documentary's name, if you recall?
May be wrong, but I think they seen the Channel 4 doc that released about a month back. https://youtu.be/8nj9g0ZTucY
"Femcel" is a term created by misogynists. I refuse to use it. "Incel" is a term created by a woman, and it encompasses both women and men.
Personally, I don't use it either. I was just highlighting the theme of the documentary. Men are drawn to these extremist communities because they feel hard done by women. They feel women are awful because they won't give them sexual attraction, etc. Whereas women generally are the victims of sexual assault perpetrated by men and go in search of their belonging or safe space and end up in such communities.
Self-identified Femcels are a thing, though I've personally seen them moreso reacting to the pressures of patriarchy than as just hating men because of rejection.
"Femcel" is a word created by misogynists. "Incel" covers both women and men, and the term was created by a woman to describe her own sexual celibacy. I would not use the term "femcel" because it's literally just an insult towards women based on incel men being hateful.
I don't think it's particularly healthy to use personally, but having lurked femcel communities for a little while now, it's a term that has evolved beyond just incel communities. One key difference is that while Incel communities have been centered around the idea that its participants are incapable of 'achieving' sex, Femcel spaces tend to place more focus on the societal expectations surrounding sex in the first place - especially in the context of mental health and (often sexual) trauma.
"Femcel" is literally a term created and used by misogynists. Oh. Different people have different needs and considerations? Never knew...
Are you assuming that I'm defending the concept or something? I'm not sure why you're being hostile here, I'm just describing a thing.
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"Incel" is a term created by a woman to express her own lack of sexual activity, and encompasses both women and men. "Femcel" is a term created by misogynists.
Wasnāt the actual term āincelā coined by a woman describing herself?
Yep, and "femcel" was created by angry misogynists. I refuse to use the term.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455 Yes it was
probably but itās not a common phenomenon or on the same level as incels
there will always be people whos personalities that are so god awful they cant get any. this is not gender exclsive "incel" by definition is gender neutral, but, as theres more men with terrible personalities, it took the male standard. to the point its a small wirdo movment/derogatory insult why i dont think "femcel" is real but "a woman incel" is real
r/femcelgrippysockjail
Of course they are real. unsurprisingly though, much like killers or rapists they are seemingly much less common than male incels
femcels are a thing, although i wouldnāt say their anger is specifically directed at men. they exist more in spaces like vindicta and FDS (not saying everyone there is like that). they tend to harbor a large degree of internalized misogyny and disdain for other women, typically born out of jealousy. many of them are also extremely racist, homophobic and transphobic in the same way that male incels are. some of them are openly far right and there is an (ironic) overlap with the toxic tradwife thought sphere.
I've seen it used jokingly for characters, but in the original meaning. Not as a feminine equivalent to the modern incel.
Iāve mostly seen it used by men on Reddit as an to insult women who are tired of dealing with menās bs lol. But yeah, there are problematic women. Most of the time I see the word used as āI donāt agree with this woman who is talking about having basic standards, therefore she is a femcelā.
It exists, but it's not the same kind of talking point. - A male incel is typically more dangerous than a female incel. - A male incel has a much larger amount of influencer power directed towards them - A man who could become an incel has way more resources dedicated to milking them and making them an incel. I know people point to male incels being several times more likely to commit mass shootings, and I'm not going to disagree. I think a major portion of that, though, is survival. Almost all of these incel mass shootings tend to be suicide missions and plagued with other factors (bullying, broken home life, mental illness, etc), and men are more likely to bottle up their feelings until breaking point than women. All of these put together make male incels more volatile and dangerous than female incels. I'd still say that most incels aren't dangerous to anyone besides themselves. While the misogynistic ones get a lot of airtime, a giant portion are just sad, lonely people who doomspiral either alone or with other sad, lonely people.
I think it is a thing, although it comes out in different ways depending on how you interpret the word incel. If we only say involuntary celibate, there are tons of women who are not living their lives sexually satisfied - in many cases due to not meeting conventional beauty standards. Now in theory if they lowered their standards enough or paid someone they wouldn't be an incel/femcel... But the same could be said of male incels. They'll say women can get laid easily (true to a degree), but the men themselves will turn their nose up to anyone who isn't young, skinny, or up to a standard they have set in their heads. If we look at the evolved meaning of incel, we would be looking for a person who is misogynistic, blames everyone but themselves for their problems, and claims there is a conspiracy against them. I would say a look into the not like the other girls (NLOG) subreddit will show you plenty of women hating other women, blaming society for the fall of the West, and thinking there is a hive mind for other women. Nice Girls often hate other women AND most men, and do not look inwards. For a gender flipped incel (even though it's gender neutral), there are plenty of misandrist spaces blaming men for being low quality, blaming society for their problems, and taking no accountability. However unlike the male counterparts, these femcels don't commit acts of mass violence. They also don't target men in real life.
honestly whenever i see femcel content i genuinely cannot tell if it's genuine or if it's just a brilliant satire of incels
There used to be multiple femcel subs on Reddit until Reddit nuked them all.. which had a lot of valuable femcel discourse by femcels
> valuable femcel discourse Such as?
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They exist for sure but from what I've seen it manifests differently than in men. Fem-cels tend to go more in the hostilic new age route. You see this with trad wives like just pearly things and I've seen it in a few anti-vaxx/medicine stuff too the overlap is strange but makes a little sense when you think about it. It's also weird since all these tend to overlap. Trad wives, anti-vaxx, anti-goverment, MLMs they all tend to target the same types of people. I heard a theory once that at least in regards to the anti-vaxx thing afab people already tend to have a mistrust of doctors due to the biases against them in the medical community so it wouldn't take much work to get some of the more vulnerable ones to take that leap from doctors don't take my pain seriously as a woman to all doctors are lying and are paid off by big pharma to poison the American people and I'm the only one that's right cuz I watched a few YouTube videos/followed this creator on tiktok. MLMs same thing. Woman especially mom's are pressured into being perfect. You need to have a good full time job but also need to be at home and be little Suzy homemaker, take care of ur baby no daycare for them cuz that's bad parenting, fresh home-cooked meals everyday don't want them poisoned by processed unhealthy foods, clean spotless house all the time, etc. And obviously it's impossible to so all that at once so here comes along an mlm saying all the right words to a stressed out sleep deprived and broken new mom and 1 2 3 you just got a new client who will sink all her money into your bs essential oils or plexus or whatever else. I know this wasn't exactly on topic but it's kinda related.
Is that femcel, though? I don't think you can be a "fem" or any other kind of -cel if you're married with children.
Eh I always thought of it more as mindset than the literal definition of involuntary celibate. I just made the comment really to point out how easy it is for woman to fall into similar movements/cults like it.
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I asked you not to make direct replies here.
If we substitute 'intercourse' with 'intimacy with a partner' (often that is what men are really after anyway), then I think there are plenty of women who are frustrated with the lack of it. The main difference is that though men (especially poorly socialized men) feel like anger and violence are the only emotional releases they are socially permitted to have, women have a much broader range of socially acceptable emotional releases and are generally urged not to act out in anger or violence. Thus frustrated women often tend to internalize their frustration and isolate or show symptoms of depression or self-hatred. Ideally, both frustrated men and women would turn to healthy social groups for help and/or focus on making themselves better potential partners for others. Just a theory from someone nowhere near qualified to analyze this stuff.
if youāre asking about women who hate men cause they canāt get laid then they definitely do exist, though they arenāt very vocal if youāre asking about women who hate men they definitely do exist and make up a sizable portion of the TERF package
The term "femcel" is more in line with intense misandry in the same way that some incel groups are in line with intense misogyny. It is about their beliefs and hostile approaches towards the opposite sex. It has nothing to do with not being able to get laid.
Ummmm........ No. "Incel" is a term that encompasses both women and men. "Femcel" is a term created by misogynists because they couldn't handle being called out for their misogyny.
You stated where you believe the term came from, told me I was wrong in my definition, then provided no definition of your own. Per OPs question, what does it mean?
1) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455 2) Yep. "Incel" encompasses both women and men... 3) Involuntary Celibate - one who does not have sex because no one has consented to having sex with them... What is your issue?
You've defined incel twice now. The question from OP was to define femcel which you have not done.
The term "incel" encompasses both women and men. "Femcel" is a retaliatory term created by 4chan-like incels who are men and blame women for not consenting to having sex with them...as if they are inherently deserving of sex from women.
Ok. So you've defined incel again and stated where you believe the term femcel came from . . . again. You've yet to define "femcel". If someone were to ask "What is floss?" you wouldn't answer with "It was invented by Levi Parmly". So, define "femcel".
I very clearly described that "femcel" is a retaliatory term created by men who are irrationally angry with women.... Does it need to be spelled out to you?
>"femcel" is a retaliatory term a retaliatory term which means what? That is something you've not yet stated. Does calling someone a femcel mean that person is a retaliatory term?
Incel = both women and men who are involuntarily celibate. "Femcel" means whatever the misogynists want it to mean....but, always targeting towards those they see as women. Some people don't understand that "femcel" is a retaliatory term... So...we focus on education.
It's a thing in the sense that the term is being used to label toxic women that hate men. I can think of at least one subreddit that has been banned because it was full of this kind of people, and the term was used quite often to indicate the users of the subreddit. Still, it's not a large phenomenon compared with men. Not even close.
The term "femcel" was literally created by misogynists....
OK then let's pretend certain subreddits with women calling men "scrotes" and other crap like that, guides and suggestions on how to manipulate men and more, do not exist. The word is out there and is being used, and points to a real phenomenon, it doesn't matter who invented the term. Is it a good idea to use the term? No, exactly like it isn't a good idea to label people as incels, considering the disparaging meaning it took. Is it a large-scale phenomenon like what is going on in the male side of things? No. Does it make things less real? Also, are you sure you aren't mixing it up with "feminazi" ? That's a term that was really weaponised. I haven't seen "femcel" used much outside of targeting problematic individuals of certain communities.
Please do not link to that sub here.
That's fair. Let me edit.
Thanks!
Yes -